Bonus Episode: Black Panther Wakanda Forever Review

Finally unlocked from our Patreon: Recorded immediately after their first viewing of the movie, Badr, Drew, and returning guest, Blythe Brumleve, hopped on the mics to discuss their thoughts and fresh reactions to Wakanda Forever. BEWARE OF SPOILERS if you haven't seen the movie

SUPPORT THE SHOW: 

• Click here to join our Patreon community and get access to bonus episodes and special rewards for as little as a $1. 
• Use the discount code "YOO" to save 10%  when you buy merch from our store. Shop for shirts, hats, and pins here
• Music provided by: Mecca Tha Marvelous, DJ Crumbz, & L.E.R.M.

• Check out Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Battle Nexus, the raddest TMNT event of the decade!

Proudly sponsored by Gotham City Limit


Proudly sponsored by Gotham City Limit


Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Yo, Short Box Nation. Welcome back to the podcast. How are y'all doing today? Happy Thanksgiving, happy holiday, and all that good stuff, right? Hopefully this episode catches you in a good mood, in a good state of mind. Maybe it catches you on the road. Maybe you're going to travel to go see family and friends or you're on a flight. Well, wherever that may be. Welcome to the show. Got a special one for you today. Decided to unlock this episode from Patreon. It was released about a week and a half ago. So our Patreon subscribers, you know, this is old news to them. They've had a chance to enjoy this twice over by now. But for some of you, this is the first time hearing it. This is our Black Panther Wakanda Forever review. So hopefully you've seen the movie by now. Because if not, I'm gonna tell you right now, spoiler warning, we talk a lot in detail about what's going on in the movies, and it might spoil the fun for you. Now, like I said, this episode has been available for our patrons for the last week and a half. So some of you are probably like, yo, this is old news. I already heard it. I'm a Patreon subscriber, B. This is old. I come on, where's the new stuff? We got you covered. All right, keep an eye on the Patreon. It'll drop uh really soon, if not the same time as this episode. And just a heads up to everyone, this includes everybody. We are taking a break these next two weeks. Obviously, it's Thanksgiving week when this episode drops, so we're gonna be off this week. And then I'm gonna be out of town on vacation the following week. So two weeks, maybe even three weeks of no episodes. So if you want some bonus content to fill the time in between there, you're someone that just, you know, yo, I need my short box fixed every week, jump on over to the Patreon and join it. All right, we're only charging$2 a month,$5 a month, but you get so many bonus episodes and video podcasts. You can even vote on the topics that we discuss. There's plenty to hold you over in cases like this. So check out the Patreon. There's a link in the show notes. Besides that, I want you guys to enjoy this episode and enjoy the holiday and maybe downtime. Hopefully, some of you are, you know, got some days offlined up. Enjoy yourselves, right? Enjoy the downtime, enjoy time with the family and friends, and we will catch you guys soon. All right, peace. I'm good now. What was your uh what was your question that you had for uh Blyth? The portrayal of the women. Oh yeah. How do you think? Yeah, loaded a question. Go. Go.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Okay, so we're we're starting off right off with really tough.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Okay, um this is just a warm-up, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Alright, so typical female characterization in superhero movies is a little bit lacking as of late, but I feel like this was a very strong showing. And not in a a traditional like fighter sense, but also just in an emotional sense. Like I I feel like I'm still kind of reeling from that movie. That was very, I guess, touching and it sticks with you.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah, very true. I'm gonna have to go somewhere and burn uh a whole white outfit. I was just thinking that I was like honestly, I was like I was basically thinking, I was like, is that how I get rid of my ex-girlfriend? Like a year from now, I just burn a bunch of shit. If it works for Chadwick Bosman, it could probably work for me. I was like, you know what? All right.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Well, I got plenty of notes to uh go through with you guys.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

So I didn't even see you write that much.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Oh, bro, I was I was writing up a storm. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

And and you went to the bathroom. You're able to get all these things. Go to the bathroom. Wow, all right, cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

What do we have? I will I will admit this movie felt really long. What was the runtime on two hours? Yeah, two hours like that.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

15 minutes next to me say two hours and 40 minutes or something.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

It deserves to be. Yeah. I will admit, at one point I did start feeling the um the the runtime. Like as at one point, uh wow, it was a two-hour 41-minute movie. Oh, but not in a bad way, like wow, this is dragging. It was just like, man, I feel like we've been in this theater for a hot minute.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

You're processing all new information.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yeah, I was processing a lot of grief. To your point, it felt like I went through a funeral.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Bro, you know how many times I've mourned Chadwick Bilesman, and then like when I go to this movie, it's like, no, it's real. Yeah, here's some more.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

It really felt like they were they weren't acting in a lot of those moments. It felt like it was real grief.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

And it's such a unique situation for them to be in where they're playing characters, but they really are grieving this man that was so well loved.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

Yeah, their friend, uh colleague.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Hero.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Yeah. Sad, man. All right. Let's go on and let's go and get this thing started. I would say cheers. We can all just take a swig of our of our nice, healthy water. Oh, you really want me to drink this water? Why won't you drink that water no more?

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I think you're saying his name wrong. No, it's no more. Namor. Namor. Dude, when he said it, I was like, oh my god. Yeah, I was like, all right, Spanish heart throb, calm down now. Come out of the ocean all wet. Telling us like a really nice story about how you came to be.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Is it like Miyamor? Uh no, that's Italian. No, Miyamore is Spanish. Is it? Yeah, so Miyomore is my love. My love. No love.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah, Namor is a no love. Which I thought, like, yo, that was like, that is the dopest rap name ever. That was like, and that is how Namor was created.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

And it he thought the name was so good he decided to give it to his his right-hand woman, too, right? Namora. Namora. The lady of no love. Yeah, yeah. No more love. You know what I do appreciate about Namor? And I promise we'll get started. Uh, this is still warm-up time. I'll tell you one thing too, as well. He wasn't like, I was like, man, he's kind of got a like a dad bod kind of like he wasn't overly ripped in like like butt like Killmonger. Like what you know, I mean Drew were watching the the first movie. Yeah, he doesn't have a V-frame. Yeah, I was like, man, uh Namur is very like.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

I was like, he eats well. You know he's getting fed by a Yeah, yeah, he eats good.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

He's like, you know, I'm he skips days. He skips days. He's like, I'm gonna skip, I'm gonna skip the gym tonight.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

He was just missing a dad hat. Like he was missing a dad hat, and you would have like, I bet.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

How did y'all feel about them portraying themselves underwater? It felt like weird.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah, because here's the thing. When anybody of us talk underneath water, bubbles are coming out. So the fact that they're able to have clear conversations.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Just like normal, like everyday life. Like they're playing sports and they're, you know, talking to each other.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

I was like, oh, this is a little bit look like some dead bodies were just floating at some point. I was like, uh, this is kind of awkward.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

I was like, yeah, like I don't know what I was expecting, but where they go to North Korea and they're just like, everybody's having a good time. And you're like, no, they're not.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

What was the thing you were gonna say about No Mod?

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Uh, I forgot. It's probably not important.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Okay. Yeah. Is it is it enough to um are we at a good point to get started now?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

No, yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

All right, here we go. Ew, short box. He just turns it on, huh? Go for it. Don't let me stop you. You just you just messed up that. I had the thing going. Can I try that again? Yeah, go for it. Now I'm now I'm so conscious about it. Thanks a lot, Drew. Ew, short box nation. Uh Drew is acting like I haven't done this a hundred times in front of him. But he just turns it on. Like I was just yelling. I'm just yelling at you guys. I'm like, I'm like a mom when uh company comes over. I'll save this for later. Hey. Shortbox Nation. Welcome to a special bonus episode because uh we're we're talking about Black Panther Wakanda Forever today, all right? Um, you might have noticed the episode title, or maybe you're someone that has like your uh podcast set to autoplay and you just, you know, you go in there all free willy-nilly. I'm here to let you know that we're gonna be talking about Black Panther Wakanda Forever. So if you haven't seen the movie, uh spoiler warning, you might want to skip this one and come back to it after you've seen the movie. Um this one being just kind of a movie review and a bonus episode. We're gonna skip the the usual format and and you know things that that we do on the show. And it's just gonna be just strictly a movie review, casual conversation. I am joined by two of my absolute favorite people. Uh, starting with the man on my left right here, my right-hand man on the show when it comes to bonus episodes. It's your boy, Andrew Torres is here with me.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

So nice to be here.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

For the record, we are recording this at like 10:30 on a Friday night. And and for you know, folks in our age range, that's basically like 3 a.m. Uh after a movie, too. So we are feeling, you know, and we had a couple drinks. We had a couple drinks. We feel a little, a little tired, but we wanted to hop on the mic for you guys. Feeling sluggish. Uh, the other person on the mic with us today, a special guest. All right, you've heard her voice a few times on the podcast, um, both behind the mic and as well as in the other room. On some Sundays when we record, you can hear her cheering and or yelling at the TV screen, uh, specifically the Jaguars, all right? We've got my favorite lady in the whole world, Blythe Brumleaf here with us. Round of applause for that for sure. What up, baby?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

There we go. There we go. Don't be shy now. Don't be shy. You've been on the show before. Game of Thrones. If you're a longtime listener, you definitely uh have heard Blythe behind the mic when we did our Game of Thrones series. Star Wars, too. We didn't know. Star Wars. You've been forget. You've been on a lot of episodes, all right? And it was only right that we called you on for this one. Um, not just because uh you would be great for this episode, but because you went and saw we all saw the movie together as a happy family. So uh Short Box Nation, like I said, it's uh it's gonna be kind of all spoilers going forward. We're gonna be talking just really in a lot in details, all right? Like I said, we just got done seeing the movie maybe an hour and a half ago. So a lot of things are still fresh on our mind. That's what you gotta look forward to, all right? Life. Drew, how are y'all feeling? How are you what what's the emotions that you're holding on to right now?

SPEAKER_00 11:01

I just feel like I'm overcome with emotions and not like a I don't want to say a happy kind of emotion. Just I feel like I've been grieving for the last few hours. It felt all and we were kind of talking about this before we got started, but it it really felt like you were grieving with these characters because it's such a unique situation in which a character, the actor who has played a beloved character, who is also just a beloved as a person, has passed away in real life, never really got that closure for you know a lot of the family, and obviously a lot of the family that he, you know, has on screen. And so you felt that when they were acting, and it didn't feel like acting throughout that movie when they were talking about him. And it was, it wasn't just grief to start the movie, it was kind of grief all throughout, and you didn't really get for me. I didn't really get a semblance of hope until the end.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Dang. That's that's good way to start, Drew.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

I thought the movie was good. Drew, how are you feeling, man? Oh, how do I feel about it? Um no, I'm just excited. Like, I was like, oh wow, this is like a movie that was like so cool to like watch in theater that everybody would like you felt the energy in the um in the theater. Oh yeah. So it's definitely one of those, like, okay, cool. And like Ryan Kugler just killed it, like just basically made another movie that didn't have like corny cameos, had no cameos. Oh no, they did. They had like one, but that was like that ties it, but it still felt like its own thing. Like this was its own problems, and they dealt with their own stuff. And which I thought was awesome because like they they made Wakanda the villain through the media, but like you see like inside, like, oh okay, like no, they're actually trying everything they're doing to like prevent like this next war coming, but they're painted as the villains because they have like a super weapon, which I thought was dope.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

There was a lot of uh uh honesty in this film in regards to like the hypocrisy of a lot of the characters, and specifically, and I think you kind of teased it, but the killmonger cameo, you know, like to have his point of view of T'Challa, his father, like uh basically like the entire um Wakandan royal family, and like him kind of pointing out their flaws and and showing that to Shuri, and even Shuri herself, like being kind of rather flawed through her anger, you know, being so angry that she becomes like vengeful. I don't think there was a lot of I don't know if there was any characters I was particularly rooting for to like, you know, uh like rooting for it in the sense of like like Captain America, you know, you're rooting for him to, you know, save the day, be the good guy. For here it was just, you know, I think a lot of understanding and you know, like being empathetic, like wow, they're going through a lot, they're really grieving. There's a lot like the pain is is being portrayed so well. Um, you know, I I think it just added a nice layer of like complexity to the characters where there was no one had like, hey, I'm doing this to be a good guy. It's like, you know, to me it was like a rather complex movie where certain motives, you know, every character had their own motives. There were a lot of like geopolitical stuff too. Like when you started paying attention, it was like polit, like world politics was like superheroes.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Well, it was also when they were like fighting on the ship, I kept thinking to myself, everybody stop fighting. Like, what are you fighting about? Like, stop fighting each other. It's uh I don't know what kind of like came over me, but it was more like you don't need to be fighting each other, like you need to be joining forces and fighting other people, if at all. Like I just uh I for whatever reason I did not like the two groups fighting each other.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

To me, it got a little hazy for the con like the reasoning for the conflict because it almost seemed like well, yeah, both kind of wanted the same thing. It almost feels like you guys talked yourselves into fighting one another. Riri Williams was the main point of it.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

They looked at it as like a weapon, they were like, Oh, this girl's a weapon, we need to kill her because she's able to like if people find out that there's like vibranium everywhere else, like, nah, we need to like ice this girl like immediately. And Wakanda's like, nah. And then, like, um, even the queen was like looking at Riri Williams, like, nah, this is like my daughter. Like, this is just a little girl that's a genius.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

It feels like a natural progression from the first movie where that was kind of the whole plot, right? Like, the reason we had Killmonger is because you know, they were so Wakanda uh uh T'Chaka made the decision, like, no, we're staying secret. Isolationists, yeah, the isolationist. This movie felt like they learned, even like the queen. This actually, it's really cool to see that the queen like carries that on where she's like, no, look, that's not our ways anymore. We're not gonna just you know go kill someone. Uh, you know, instead, we're gonna like try to go about it in a more civil manner. I thought that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Oh, yeah. Also, when the you find out like France is like trying to break into like the Wakan, like one of the Wakwanda uh outposts.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Oh, and then they march all the mercenaries and make them kneel.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

That was a hell of a way to open it up, man.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Like, dang, okay Angela Bassett, flawless, also arms incredible. All of the female arms in this movie are top notch.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

I feel like Angela, they were like, Yeah, Angela, look, you don't really have to get you don't have to hit the gym. You won't really, you don't really gotta be buffed. I mean, you're the queen after all. She's like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Look, I'm hitting this.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

But even Shuri, like her arms were ripped as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah. I love I love how the queen, how there's that one scene where like she has like her headdress off and she just looks tired, like real, real tired, and she's like, I can't deal with this stuff. And then the next scene is her like having it on, and she's all put together and she's like confident.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

I'm just like while still grieving the loss of like not only yeah, her son, but like, you know, the fact that she lost her husband. Can we talk how they opened it?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Like, like, how did you guys feel about that opening?

SPEAKER_00 16:36

You know, traditionally, I guess in you know, funerals, it's it there's one part that there's one side of the world that is super sad all the time, and then there's another part of the world that will celebrate because they believe in the afterlife. This was one of those moments where they believe in the afterlife. But you could tell with like they did that close-up on Sherry's face as she's carrying the coffin, and she's not celebrating, she's grieving deeply, and I couldn't help but just empathize with her and in that moment and just feel that.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

I I don't know how I would be able to-fucking dancing, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Like, what are you smiling about?

SPEAKER_01 17:10

But and they open it in such a way where it's like, no, we're gonna open this with another death. Like, immediately, like, you're dealing, you're like, What's going on? It's all beeping and everything, and you're like, Oh, this is like that moment where like she comes out and then mom's like, she's like, Where's my brother? And she's like, she has the AI. When she's like AI, she's like, Where's my brother? And and he was just like, Oh, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

I mean, immediately they just throw you into the field. Straight in. You're like, damn, I gotta relive, I gotta relive Chadwick Boseman dying again. Right. I applaud them too for getting that out the way, like, not just getting out the way. That sounds kind of dismissive, but like addressing that first. Like, look, we all know this is at the top of everyone's mind. I'm sure like that was a huge, I mean, no, not just, I'm not sure. I know it was a huge blow to the movie and and to the whole cast losing him, but I applaud them like for addressing it first and doing it in a tasteful way, too, right? Like, they just call it, they don't really name what disease he had in the movie. They were just like, hey, he died of a disease, and that's why Shuri feels so bad because she couldn't save him. Um, which is kind of like, you know, uh uh realistic, right? Of like cancer. Like it's still a disease that we can't cure, and you know how many people feel like you know, just broken that they still we can't still can't save people up. Yeah, like that was hard, man. That was a hard opening to like just the whole opening.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Here's the thing that whole opening was. I will say it goes from there, it's like just sadder. It's just sadder from the city. And it gets sadder, yeah, yeah. Because you're saying as soon as that happens, they do the funeral scene, and then the opening credits is just quiet. There's no like song, it's just like a silent intro. Silent intro.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

You get the whole trailer in that the first like 10 minutes of the movie. Oh, yeah, and when I noticed I was like, oh wow, everything from here on out is gonna be a relatively like new scene. New information. The whole trailer was just a fucking uh funeral scene.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

But did it also feel like it was really short? Because in the movie, I will say, like when they were doing the whole, you know, sort of tribute to Black Panther then or to Chala, then it felt like it was too short. But then they revisited, you know, several times throughout the movie. So when it ended at first, I was like, that's it, that's all we're getting. I feel like they should have, you know, made that last a little bit longer because it really was only the first five to ten minutes, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Yeah, but then they fast forwarded to a year later. It's like one year later, and you're like, okay, these people are definitely still dealing with their grief.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

I think it's interesting to see like a year from now where everybody at is in their life. Clearly, the queen has moved on, she's accepted.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

She's got a look, she's the queen.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

She's got a job to do. She got a job to do. Very much so. And then Sherry's like, nah, like Sherry's still like marrying herself in work.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

That's where she finds release.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

And I do agree, it did feel, I guess in hindsight, the the funeral did feel relatively short. Even though he wasn't there in person, I felt like spiritually, like Chadwick Bozeman was in this movie.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

We're talking about the painting that just looks you in the eye for like 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

You're like, okay. They they stuck on that a lot. But I'm saying, like, just like the fact that they were able to work his characters in the movie, like T'Challa himself in the movie, primarily like the decisions he he made catching up with them, which is something that he dealt with in the first movie. Um, was the decisions of, I mean, that was the whole point of like Killmonger and things, like the decisions of his father, the sins of the father that he had to deal with. The family had to deal with the same things. I mean, Namor brings it up. Like, look, it was T'Challa's decision to open up the borders and do this, like uh um, you know, share of the rest of the world. You guys have to deal with this now. So they're dealing with you know, T'Challa in multiple ways, missing him, but also like his regime and uh the things that he established. Um it felt like I said to me, it felt like even though he wasn't there, he had plenty of like kind of I have air quotes, but like screen time, you know, just by name alone, you're like, wow. Um, I'm glad that they didn't just like, hey, here's a funeral scene, us paying respect, and we're moving on. It's like, no, no, no. This dude was a fucking king that had like policies and things, like we've got to tie this up. And I thought that's what this movie spent a lot of time doing was like it felt like they needed to close the chapter as difficult as it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

I think it was also like the story of grief and how T'Challa and Kilmonger in the first one, how they dealt with it in completely opposite ways, and then in this movie, you kind of see Sherry dealing with it a little, you know, she's stepping a little bit into each side to kind of feel it out because she's lost and she doesn't know which pathway to go.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah. With things still fresh on everyone's mind, is there a scene or or moment that has been maybe rattling in your brain since we left the theater?

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Just honestly, the way they make uh Namor, like the way he flies and fights, like when he was just messing up those like helicopter dragonfly things and like going in the air and uh Rekanda Air Force, dude. Just the way that he was fighting, everything was just dope. Like you're like, dang, this this dude is cool. Like he's just messing up everybody, and then also um to kind of stick with it, it's just like whenever you meet him, he's not some sort of like angry, mean, spiteful, like what we thought we were gonna get, like Namor to be like, no, you guys are like yo, like this dude was smooth.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

I mean, yeah, he lived that's the name Namor. I was like smooth, like rum, like Namor.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Yeah, that is Namor. We've been reading Namor, but this was Namor. Namor came in with a cloak and he just all smiles, and then he meets like he's like, yo, I'm and yo, and he goes, I've never brought a girl back to this palace before. So here's my dead mom's pearls. What? We just met. Consider it a more goddamn smooth Spanish gloves. Here's the thing the entire time I'm thinking of myself, I'm like, oh yeah, this Namor would definitely change. Try to like bone sea stone. Like, definitely. I was like, yo, this guy is definitely coming after you're a girl, where he's like, Who's this woman? Invisible woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Yeah, uh we'll talk a little bit more about Namor here in a sec, but I I true to your point, um, his scenes felt like so there was he has such like this this aura to him that was like cunning, devious, very smooth, but like like you knew behind, like I mean he showed it right in in force, like the way he just destroyed and just wrecked havoc. I I just wish he would have yelled Imperius Rex a little more, just to drive home the point of like everything up.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

But you're that smooth, you can't yell things. True. You have to whisper it really. He yelled it. You're right, you're right. That's the Namorway. That's what I'm saying. And yo, he did not yield, like, my boy did not back down once.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

No, for sure. All right, life. Same question to you. Any particular scene or moment that uh that you want to highlight?

SPEAKER_00 24:01

I think it was really, really surprising when the queen died. Uh oh, I did not see that coming. I thought that she would be a a just a force, almost like a beacon of light for the whole movie and maybe just the whole franchise in general. And so when they killed her, that was really And she died in a very heroic way.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

Yes, very like big time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Stepping in front of Riri, like to protect her. Like, even though this isn't my daughter, like you're you're not gonna come in here and run shit.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

And then, like, ooh.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

I think that Okoye, too, like when she got when she got sort of stripped of her her powers, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

I was with Mbaku on that. I was like, Oh, we're acting a little random.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

No, you're about to go to war. Like, you really want to get rid of one of your top fighters, you most loyal fighters. She is badass as a and she got really emotional about that. You know, like this is the type of woman that like is she's gonna give her whole life to this cause.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

And that was kind of her flaw, though, right? Like, I thought that was interesting when the queen like kind of threw some of that stuff back in her face. It was like, oh damn, you've been kind of you know, like, forgive, but never forget. Look, I remember what side you was on when T's allow was, you know, lost his uh his title and Kilmark.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

But she's also she took an oath. That's her oath.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

And I and that's what I'm saying is that like her her loyalty kind of ended up being her downfall a little bit. Now, granted, I I do think it's like, all right, look, it's not like she gave up, like just gave Shuri to you know the Talicons. She put up a fight, but yeah, that that was pretty surprising. I think for me, the most surprising scene or the the one scene that's still kind of uh living in my head is um Killmonger. I was not expecting Killmonger, even though I had heard maybe rump rumblings. You know what I'm talking about. Uh I had heard rumblings about um Michael B. Jordan having a cameo in this or something like that. And I thought maybe it was gonna be a flashback. I didn't think that he was gonna play kind of like devil's advocate, you know, to be Shuri's um kind of spiritual uh guide.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Like the devil on one side and the angel on the other.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Suri was kind of missing. Well, I guess her mom in the end ended up being the angel on the other side.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Don't take drugs when you're upset.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

You have a whole different experience. When Killmonger showed up, I was like, oh, this is not gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

I thought they were gonna try and do some kind of I wasn't sure if they would, but maybe like AI or something, you know how they've done with like Leia or you know, in in other like, you know, Disney properties. You thought we were gonna get a chat one. I thought I was like, please don't. Because I just didn't, I don't know how that like a part of me is like I I did want to see him there, but then another part of me is like, I've there's no right way to do that.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

I would I was kind of holding out, like, I wonder if he filmed a little something. Something a voicemail that was like, Look, I know you're sick. Do you mind saying that?

SPEAKER_00 26:49

I don't think we heard him speak in this movie, did we?

SPEAKER_01 26:52

No. No, everything was just basically scenes of him and sure. It was like scenes that she was seeing through his eyes. Yeah, from the first movie.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Yeah, so they didn't they just saw the scenes, but they didn't hear anything.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

I'll be honest, and Drew, maybe you could relate. Um, having like literally watched the first Black Panther prior to going to the theater today. Added a lot more. It did. It did, because well, I I've just noticed like how believable their um their uh kinship. Yeah, thank you. Their kinship was like you could I mean if I should take him or the lab. I could firmly believe like they could be brother and sister in real life because they just act so well and their chemistry so good. To go back to my point, Killmonger though. He's like, yo, hey cuz like yo, all of his one lines, damn, you kill it. Yeah, he killed it. Uh and and like I said, to have his perspective of the the Wakandan family, I thought was was real interesting. Because we're this whole time we're mourning them and we're seeing them in such this great light, but then here he has kind of like this unbiased well, maybe biased, but this other side opinion on them, like, no, look, look, look. You're in this predicament, you know, of course, for for external reasons, but also because your family, you know, have have made pretty bad decisions as well. Um, but I like that she didn't give into that that ventral side, even though he gave her a lot of good cause. And that's what I'm saying. Like, I thought Shuri was so magnetic throughout this whole movie because just of how like angry she was. And I don't think we've seen we've seen that in a MCU character for sustained for this long. Like the whole movie, she's just holding on to this like pain.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

And and just to add to that, my favorite thing is when you know Namor Namor, he goes and he's like, I heard I heard what you said when we were by the water.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Yeah, yeah, Rachel burned the whole world.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Like, I want to burn the whole world to the ground. And he's like, I heard.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Oh no, he told her, let's burn it together. Yeah, bro.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

I said, dang.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

That would that brings up one thing. Uh, do they not have because I I was really surprised that Sherry wasn't like married off to one of the other, sort of like I guess you know, the Game of Thrones thinking comes into play.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

We don't do that no more.

SPEAKER_02 29:01

Not in vodka. Um, I well, I thought that was.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

But even at the end, too, because I'm like, oh, usurper. I thought that like, oh, Aegon coming for that ass.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

I love usurper.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

That's good. I thought that was gonna be I thought that was gonna be the play, and that actually would have been pretty interesting um had maybe um uh Ramonda offered, you know, that yeah, y'all just been watching Game of Thrones too much. Yeah, really fresh out of it. Thank you, Jim. That's what we need to do. All right. Uh I'm gonna name some I'm gonna name some characters, and I want you both to tell me what thought or or maybe specific scene comes to mind when I mention them. I'm gonna I'm gonna skip the first two I had just because we've talked about Shuri and Queen Ramonda, and we'll get back to them, of course. But let's go with um Curveball here. Let's go Re-Re Williams. What did you guys think about Re Re Williams Ironheart? Dream I'm gonna go to you only because you are one of the very few people I know that uh was rooting for Re-Re Williams in the comics and maybe excited for her appearance in the movie. Uh, what did you think?

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Oh, I thought it was really good. They gave her that Spider-Man approach, like, but like a nice little Chicago West Side Spider-Man approach, like immediately likable. Like she had a very good presence about her.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

I think she was Boston, right? She was from Boston, Massachusetts.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

No, that's where she went to school. Oh she was from Chicago, because she went like in her room, which I don't know where you get a dorm room. I don't know where you get a dorm room that looks like that. Like she had the windows. 30 windows, bro. Like it was like, holy shit. She didn't go to MIT, so no, Rebu Williams is dope. Like, I like that. I like how they gave her like the Midwest. Like she's from the Midwest. She had a swagger to her. So she definitely has a swagger about her. So I like how she wasn't helpless and she was just like she wasn't mooching on her aunt like a certain Peter Parker we know. Yeah, for real. He's getting the job done. So I thought it was really good. I like I like the fact that they made her older because like in the comic books, I think she was like 12 or 13 when she built it.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

I like how um Shuri and Riri interacted and that Riri like really I'm sorry, uh Shuri really respected like Re, you know, like instead of having like some friction, it was just immediately like, wow, you were like her being so impressed that someone this young could like be this brilliant and and build these things.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah, the dialogue between them two, and it was like really, really good because you got a lot out of it. She's like, Oh, how long did it take you to build this? She's like, Oh, like six months. She's like, Six months? And then they keep going back and forth, back and forth.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

So I think there was a lot of like like a lot of unity among the the women in this, right? Like there was I didn't feel like there was any friction. Um I mean, granted, there was friction, especially like between Ramonda and and um Okoye. Um But that was like justified. There was no unjustified like friction or like petty pettiness or or cat fights. You know how like sometimes I think it's safe to say, like, especially in superhero films, there there's always like a sense of like there can only be one strong female character, and maybe you know the other one's a villain or butt heads, but I felt like the unity across this one was really refreshing to see. Or it was like really pleasant to see on I think on screen. All right, uh for you. I'm gonna go let's go uh Okoye and uh the Dora Malaja.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

I just love them in general. I think that you know, going back to the the earlier point that we were talking about with female characters and how they're portrayed in different Marvel pro I would say Disney properties just overall or maybe just this current state or ecosystem. There's a lot of just out of fraudulent, I think, you know, female warrior princesses. These are the the complete opposite. Like I I I have said for years that I Disney has missed out on a huge opportunity by not doing like a Disney Plus show or like a almost like a documentary or a mockumentary style on the Dor Melage. I I just think that they are just that fascinating how they get chosen, how they train, how they fight, what's their camaraderie like. Um with Okoye, she was just one like I got very emotional during a lot of parts of this movie, but also when she got stripped of her powers and she is just heartbroken over it. Like I felt that that was one of the moments that I definitely got teary-eyed.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Because you never see her weak, you never see her like this emotional or like any type of like like I wouldn't say weak, but like this most vulnerable, where she's like Yeah, I I would agree. Like that some of the kudos to her. Like her acting was really, really good because she's just doing it. Because when she's funny, she's funny.

SPEAKER_00 33:24

When she's the ashy head, the ashy head joke.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Oh my god, I lost it. That was so funny.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

And it's a lot of moments where like it's you know, speaking to the larger ecosystem, like if a woman like challenges somebody else, especially a man, you don't realistically feel like that woman can really like fight them. But with her, like, absolutely 1000%.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Like, I I love that they had she built that rivalry. I think the the character's name, um, or the villain that she was fighting, his name uh it was a tuma. Um, then like, yeah, warrior, like for her to get first of all that respect from him was was really cool to see, and for them to have that rivalry, the whole scene. Actually, you know what? That is one of the scenes that really I think um that that first big fight scene or action scene where um they're trying to rescue Reiri and the um uh Talicons uh show up.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

And Namor hasn't pulled has not Namor hasn't fought because the first time you hear you see Namor fight is a whole different fight.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Oh, for sure. It's like, oh never mind. He's he's he's he's that he's here, yeah, yeah. But that first action scene on the bridge where um Okoye is protecting Shuri and Reiri was so fucking tight. I was like, oh shit, the choreography is gotten because I mean it's a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

She took the three of those dudes. What three of those dudes light work.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

I mean, Atuma was a different thing. You know, he was like the second boss. I mean, that was something I I loved in the first movie, was the choreography, and all the action scenes felt like really well choreographed and like some thought was really put into it. I felt like this one was that, but even hard. There's something about the way the hits were, it just felt so much harder.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

The suit upgrade, too, that she got. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

The Kita had it too. What was the name of that? It was the Midnight Angel Armor, which is from uh uh a recent comic book series. So it was cool that they were digging into like a recent um comic book series for that. But yeah. I want to talk about Namor's first punch. Okay, well, let's go to Namor. What are uh Namor? Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Namor first punch.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Let's uh I want to hear your both of your thoughts on Namor and really like the the presentation of the Talicon. Drew, go ahead and take that away. Talk about a boy Namor.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

The way that the trailer portrayed how the movie was, I thought this was like honestly gonna be one of those, like, oh, we're just gonna attack you and just be like heretic, like just heretics about things. I love how Namor comes up. He's like, hey man, listen, y'all left this in the ocean. If you can like, yo, do you know who made this? And then it's like, what are you talking about? Oh, this thing right here. Like, we're not gonna point fingers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

But technically, you guys kind of open the doors and shit like this.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Yeah, because they want your shit, now they're coming to our place to look for the shit that they wanted from you. So, all right. But then when he comes up, first he comes up.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Here's a shell, give me a call when y'all need me.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Yeah, yeah, here's a shell. Yeah, yeah. Here's a shell, blow it, put it in the ocean, I'll be back. Then they they're like, and then they they get the means that and they're like, nah, we gotta go kidnap this girl and protect her at all cost. And then Namor shows up. And when he shows up, for like when the the way that they set it up was perfect when like the water the streets are all covered in water, where you're like, damn, like he's flooding, he's flooding uh Wakanda.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Oh, the first attack on Wakanda.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Yeah, the first attack, and then he comes up and then Umbaku and his thing. And that's what I'm saying. They set it up with Umbaku. Umbaku's over here just beating up all these dudes.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

He's lane work, and then he sees Namor, and then he's probably thinking real quick, and probably thinking, man, what was the Adora Malaj topic? That's what he was talking about. Yeah, white work.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Yeah, yeah, because he was talking about because they were like, remember when she's trying to explain? She's like, What did they look like? She's like, they rode whales. They rode. And then Mbaku's like, man, I punch a fish in the face. Man, I punched a fish man in the face. That's what he said. Like, that's why I'm a mama. Yeah, like yo, and that's what I love. I love it. He's on carrot. Umbaku's just like, man, I hate that dude. And then he sees him, and then immediately bro, everybody, even the theater, reacted to that punch. That was like, you're like, I was like, Oh, I hope he's not dead. I hope he didn't punch.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

That's where I immediately went, was like, oh shit. I was expecting someone to die in this movie, but I wasn't ready for Mbaku.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

It's like, come on, man. Killed that pride immediately.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Vegetarian. 100%. Actually, you know what? You're right. That's actually even funnier. He punched the pride out of Mbaku. Because after that, Mbaku's like, you know what, we don't even need to kill him.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

He's like, so hard. He's like, they'll come back. They'll come back and they'll come back with more of their friends.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Straight up. He punched the pride out of Mbaku. It's really funny because I'm telling you, after that punch, I was like, wow, Mbaku is so really wise and nice. He wised up, yeah. Yo, real quick, big shout outs to the lady that was sitting next to Drew and Rob. This lady was on literally the edge of her seat. The entire time. And I mean, I wanted to be like that, but I was like, these seats are way too comfortable. I mean, which says a lot, right? Like, we're sitting in reclined seats, and she's at the edge of her seat. Um, yeah, I drew you brought it up. The energy in the theater was was really nice. So uh Blife, I'm gonna I'm gonna go to you. Uh, thoughts on the presentation of Namor and the Talicon. Actually, I really want to hear your thoughts on Talacon, because that was something I think you were interested in was the portrayal of like this Mesoamerican culture and incorporating that.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Yeah, because I I think you know, we've seen it kind of hinted at with previous, you know, I think uh the the latest Thor movie, that I'm forgetting the name. Um, but in in that where they're meeting with all the gods and all of them around, you kind of see a little bit more of that um aspect of like this mythology of human civilization that's coming into the MCU. And I'm all about that life. Like the I'm one of the few with like the eternals. I absolutely loved it because they show all of these ancient human civilizations. So when I found out about Namor, I this was I felt like it was almost a dream. I'm obsessed with like Central and South American culture and getting more information, I think, about like the Mayan civilization, which is where a lot of that um that his storyline is drawn from. So there's usually like a a serpent, there's usually like um a bird of some sort, and then a cat of some sort. So I think cooler. And that's with like the Mayan, you know, sort of culture. They they usually have I know with like Incan too, they had the condor that flies in the sky. So that was really part of like. Serpent, cat, and um bird, right? Bird and bird.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Okay, when you said serpent, I immediately thought I was like like Hydra.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

But that was what it was part of like his headdress was like the the bird and or the feathers, which is kind of weird to be underwater, and a serpent shape. But then if you think about it, then the Wakandans coming together with the Black Panther. That's their kind of like trio joining together. So I thought that that was really cool.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

What is it with like kings and painting? Like, yo, my boy Namor, like Namor was like painting, like he just got his ass whooping. His girl's just like, yo, you really gonna let them whip ass? And he just he has a painting, he's doing the painting of of the of him versing um a jaguar, or not a jaguar, black panther, which I was like, damn, that's dope.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

History is what you make it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

So on the topic of the talicons, I was obsessed with them water grenades. That ABC special of of the the uh Wakanda, finding Wakanda, right? It was called Finding Wakanda, which I recommend if you're listening right now and you haven't watched that ABC special. I championed it on last week's episode. I highly recommend watching it just because you'll get a whole new sense of appreciation of the entire team and the amount of work that went into the first Black Panther. And that was something I I took from that special was the attention to like setting and world building and the technology. And I was curious how they were going to represent Talo Con and like build out and give it its own like unique like vibe. And I thought they accomplished that really well from you know, like their mode of transportation with like the whales, which was crazy as fuck to see, like free willy, like Lorcas, you know, slingshotting them. That was awesome. The water grenades to me were just so devastating, like to harness, like use you know, like the power of water. Yeah, like it was like damn. And it was those weapons were deadly, like they were sinking shit. Yeah, come on, still too early, baby. Still too early. Um, but also uh, you know, now we we talked a little bit about like how it was a little weird to see some of the like people like acting and being underwater. Yeah, when Shuri gets to see Tolakan and it's I thought that was just a little weird because but I you know I gave us a leeway.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

People holding their breath underwater, kind of moving around that way instead of I don't know, like Little Mermaid where they just you just feel like they're just vibing. Yeah, but then in here it's like are y'all.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

They're struggling, they're struggling, yeah. I did I I read somewhere, I read an interview with the actor that plays Namor, Tenochtwarta, and he was talking about how prior to this movie, I don't think he I don't think he knew how to swim or he just wasn't a very good swimmer. And he said by the time he got done with this movie, um, he could hold his breath for like five minutes underwater. And it was like kind of a competition among all of them to like see who could hold their breath the longest, because they were shooting scenes underwater, I think. So to that point, I'm like, all right, well, I'm gonna give him credit because these are people like probably really holding their breath, you know. So um, but but regardless, it didn't take away from like how beautiful the city did look, um, especially when he um when Namor declares war, when he gr gathers like basically the whole city and he's like, Look, I fucked up, I was a little too hopeful. I put you know, I opened us up to some uh some trouble. That scene where he's like coming down to his chair with the headpiece was insane, man. Like this movie had such good shots, but there was something about that scene right there that just felt like it was out of this world.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

It's attention to detail when you can tell that you've done your due diligence with the costume work and the cultures that you're bringing in, not just from like Central America, but also from Africa itself. Like all of these different cultural inspirations you're bringing together into one movie.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

And the audio cues too, the audio texture. I think uh the audio was also like the fact that they paid attention to give them a unique like audio sense. It was like some sonar type vibe.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

There's like some synth wave too going on, but right, because they like almost killed, like they were the soldiers were like just jumping into the water.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

The play on the siren was another part of the play on the sirens song. There we go. That's what I was trying to do. This is kind of a callback to to last week's episode where we reviewed maybe the the the most the scariest version of Namor ever written with more like a horror comic than a superhero comic. But I didn't think I'd see any horror elements in this movie. But the first appearance of the Tolicons and uh Namor in that opening scene where they're on the ship and you know they've they're they got the ship looking for um uh vibranum in the ocean floor, that was way scarier than I thought. For them to play on the siren song, and you don't even see them until like a couple minutes in, and Namor is in the shadows as he throws you know the fucking helicopter into the ocean.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

Okay, that's right. Ding!

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Yeah, that that's they thought they were getting away.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

They're like, oh, we're gonna be good.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Scott Fried now, motherfucker. The dude with the wings on his ankles.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

Did those grow back?

SPEAKER_02 44:50

I don't know, but sure he took uh one. All right, let's go back to some of the major characters. We're working our way up from my list. Actually, let's take a pit stop real quick at Mbaku. Any uh thoughts or scenes that we want to share? I think we talked about them a little bit. Oh, I'm just he was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

Like at his growth in the character was really well. Um he was one of the characters like I was I wanted to see more of when this movie was starting. I was like, all right, this is like the character that I'm invested with. I wonder what they're gonna do with him, how he is he gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

Winston Duke is is man, his acting, his his delivery is so good, man.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Why don't they make him like I I've always wondered like why not him and Sherry? Why are why isn't that a thing? I feel like that would be such a power couple. Why don't we throw it on the thing? What are the traditions here? Why are they not married off? Like it feels like it would solve a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_02 45:42

Well, no, I like his- I do agree, it would, because you know they're two uh old tribes are kind of he's old school.

SPEAKER_01 45:47

He's old school, but he's like warming up to it because he's even said, like, yeah, no, like you King Regent. Yeah, he's very much like you brace these new ways, and then the fact that you're a woman trying to go into Obama. I'm not saying that you can't do it. I'm just not gonna be there.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Isn't his isn't his call, wasn't it a little different than the first one, too?

SPEAKER_02 46:06

It wasn't it wasn't, yeah. Oh, you're talking about like the grunts, it wasn't like it was more to me, it was kind of more elegant. It was like a little more tame, it was like yeah, 100%. Like a night out your boy. Which I will I I I joked with this at with Drew at the theater, but I was like, I kind of want to be a part of his crew. Like his crew just look like there's a bunch of dudes.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

I was like, and I told him, yeah, and I whispered to him, I was like, yo, I was like, Can you imagine if Warcana was like, we want a shot at American football, like we're gonna make our own team. Hell no. Like, hell no, yeah. Those dudes, like I was like, that's the line by the way.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

I remember they were gossiping. They were like, so I heard uh I heard um it was a Nakia. They were like, I heard Nakia came back. Oof, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yeah, they're all standing on the boat with each other. It's like a king of the hill moment, but it's just like, all right, cool.

SPEAKER_02 46:52

Yeah, it's funny. Let's go and revisit the queen herself, right? Thoughts, uh, any particular scenes on Queen uh Ramonda? I know we've already kind of uh talked a lot about her scenes and whatnot, but let's take a let's take a breather here for a minute. What else haven't we discussed when it comes to Queen Ramonda?

SPEAKER_00 47:09

The costume choice.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

It's just impeccable the way the that they design these that from the armbands of the gold, like sort of interlacing the the necklaces that go down into the dress, the headdress, like it's I impeccable.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

She's definitely the like I she's the queen to me. Like yo, I was like, yo, royal, elegant, like she had a presence about her. And I loved seeing both sides of her of just like now I gotta run this nation and I gotta raise my daughter. And like I like that the relationship between her and Shuri as well, because like even when like she's talking back to her, she's like, You hung up on the queen. She's like, No, no, no, I hung up on my mom. It's different.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Yeah, we can get away with this. She was almost like the best of like she had like T'Chaka's, like, kind of like cunningness and like you know, toughness combined with like the nobility of T'Chala, you know, like and I think that opening scene of the at the UN kind of showed it where she showed mercy to the soldiers, but it was also like an act of like or a show of like force. Like, look, this is the last chance y'all get. I I'm not stupid. I know you guys are out here trying to get the vibranium by any means. I'm just letting you know I'm also bad about it, you know. Like I might be grieving, but y'all might be grieving too, if you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

She's like, I hear she's like, yo, I hear your whispers.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

The king is again that guy that draws the graph to fuck around and find out.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

She's like, do not make mistake my my grieveness for weakness.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

But I also got like in a weird way, and I feel like this kind of just comes from Angela Bassett herself because she's always kind of portrayed very powerful, very strong uh uh women, uh, and but also in in these mother uh roles as well. Just seeing her on on screen and having this much screen time, I was like, man, she just feels like my mom. Like she feels like every you know, like she could be a mom to you, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:01

It's like, yeah, this definitely felt like this was her movie. This is like, yeah, yeah. This felt like 100%. I was like, man, I was like, even though Sherry's in this movie, I feel like this is like they've done a good job of making her the focal point for a lot of this stuff. Because she's walking around like like Nick uh from Shield. She's like running around Shield, like, I need this, this, this, and this.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

I really was worried about like Sherry taking on like that focal point because I thought she was a great side character. I wasn't sure if she could carry the movie, but I think with Angela Bassett there, like it it just made it effort, it made it made Shuri's character shine a lot more. Well said. And we haven't really talked about Nikia at like at all. Like she had a you know what? Fantastic with her in particular. I mean, it with the whole scope of the movie, when you think about the fact that she's been a mom this whole time. Yeah, which we didn't see that coming. Right. And that I kind of almost feel like why was her why was the sister robbed of that relationship with him, grieving process wise? Like that should have been the first thing. Like, look, you have some kind of connection to your brother back now.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

Nikia with Jason Bourne. Man, what? Nikia was Jason Bourne.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

You want some shit done in Wakanda that we can't already do. Seriously. Let's be real, we we are some efficient motherfuckers out here, but sometimes we need some help too. And you know who we go to? Nakia. Nikia Bourne. Oh, Nikia Bourne.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Yeah, straight up. I want this episode to be called Nikia Bourne.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

She was uh, man, she was so badass, and she's very multifaceted, like the motherly figure, of course, and then also the the sisterly, um, compassionate, like uh daughter role model as well. She played it all.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

You know what? She uh on this joke, running with this joke of the you know, Jason Bourne, she kind of was that character, right? Like she went off the map. She's a fucking school teacher. With a kid who shows up, the queen, we need you back again. Uh, you know, I'm not about that life no more. Your country needs you. What? She got hit with the your country needs you, and she went to town. Man, yeah, she was awesome. Now, here's the other side of that. Here's the here's the other my other hand for that. I don't know if I care for that mid-credit scene. It felt just weird for him to have a son. I I kind of was like, I I thought the way it ended with Shuri coming to terms on her own. Oh, so she was like sideline. Not that the med credit scene robbed us of that or changed it, but it just felt like a weird follow-up after having such a powerful moment of like Shuri just being able to like mourn and dress.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

She burned her dress. She was like, All right, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

It just felt weird that all of a sudden, oh, uh here's your nephew, too.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

But don't worry, he has a list, but he's cute.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

Well, yeah, but my asshole for that thing.

SPEAKER_00 51:43

And I'm glad that they said it because my first thought was like, oh my god, like they held this kid like secret from the entire family, and now the queen is dead, and she's she'll never know her grandchild.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

And you know, that was my first thought, and they they covered that with the conversation, but still I felt that was just kind of a weird shoehorn in at the last minute to me. It just felt it it just was a little I took it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

I I I will say because there was a lot of debate around when Chadwick died, like Disney was very firm. Kevin Feige was very firm when he said, We are not replacing him, it's not happening, and then it started up this really big debate online like, no, this is an important character, like it should be recast, not right now, but eventually he should be. And so I think this is maybe a way for them to say, like, in the future, we're we're gonna have, you know.

SPEAKER_02 52:31

It kind of feels like it steals a little bit of the thunder from Shuri taking up the mantle of Black Panther that you're already introducing the possibility of you know T'Challa's son one day uh, you know, becoming Black Panther taking the mantle, which is which is fine, and that's probably what's gonna happen. But just in the moment, it's like, guys, she literally just became Black Panther. She literally just had a major breakthrough.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Plot twist, it's Killmonger's baby. And that's what we do the third one about.

SPEAKER_02 53:00

Nah, that's not Nikia's way. Don't you don't you put there on Nikia's name?

SPEAKER_01 53:04

I'm sorry, I'm just trying to make it more little like where you're like, oh, Game of Thrones. Yeah, yeah, Game of Thrones.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

Yeah. All right. On the topic of Black Panther and lineage and taking over the mantle, thoughts on the suit and her like being Black Panther? Because uh Killmonger vibes.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

Yeah. That doesn't say the suit. The suit that she had, I was like, oh, this is very much like reminiscent of a Killmonger suit when he showed up.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Does she already have it made? How did you guys interpret the scene where after she takes the heart-shaped, heart-shaped herb that um synthetic? It's not real. No, that was a real one. It was just that was a heart-shaped herb 2.0.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

It was cloned. It was cloned from like way, way back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

You're right. Um when Nakia says, now you're gonna need a suit, uh, and she goes and like the the uh helmets, she's got like the helmet, it looked like the T'Challa's helmet, maybe T'Chaka's, and then she walks to a third one. Like, did she already have one made?

SPEAKER_00 53:58

I think there was a lot of rumors, or not rumors, but you know, the screen-by-screen breakdowns whenever a trailer is dropped. But when Sherry is showing Chadwick's or T'Challa's the all the different costumes that she's working on, there is that one that she wears now. It's kind of in the background.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

Oh, that's cool. Okay. All right, so maybe she was just playing around with like models or whatnot. But what did you guys um think about the suit?

SPEAKER_01 54:21

I thought the suit was very like well done and looked good on her. Like, I was like, dang, it like I'm saying, this one more looked like a furrough, like Chadwick's Brosman. Like, you saw how he fights like a boxer, he's like really big on the ground doing stuff. She was like, like, yeah, straight up. That's like, yo, that's the vibe I got. And like, yo, Panther.

SPEAKER_02 54:44

I hope I was I can isolate that sound bite for the rest of time. I might need you to redo that one. But I know exactly what you mean, though. I know exactly what you mean. Because when she's in the ship with Namor, Namor, and she's watching him fucking become a burnt piece of toast, and all of a sudden he breaks first of all, when he breaks the ship and she asks, um, the I forgot the AI's name, but it's voiced by Trevor Noah. I didn't know that. Really? Yeah, Trevor Noah voices AI. But when she asks, I'm just gonna call the AI Trevor Noah because I don't know what off the top of my head. But when she asked the AI, um, hey, how's the ship holding up? And it's like, nah, it's not doing good at all. Basically, like, not gonna do it. But when when she fights him on that ship, I see your I do see your point where she's jumping around and she's fucking clawing him up. She's pissed, she's fighting from rage.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Like, she's like, yeah, it's crazy to me. Like, yo, she's just fighting from anger. She's like, yo, I've already lost my brother, now I lost my mom. I'm gonna take out all my anger now. Cause I like you you were just gonna feel my wrath.

SPEAKER_00 55:47

And she scared his face, she fucked up his face. I was gonna do we know if she's ever like took fighting lessons or trained like that in the past.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

I assume so. I think it's safe to yeah, she's part of the five.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

I've only ever seen her like shooting guns, like you know, the handgun things. Yeah, that's the only time I've ever seen her fight. I always thought she was just more of like a science chick.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Yeah, like Donatello. No, she showed you thought she was Donatello today. She was Raphael.

SPEAKER_00 56:10

Definitely Rafael.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

She dug the nails into the fighting on the side of the boat, just like a fucking ballerina. I've got a question for the both of you.

SPEAKER_02 56:18

Could you ever? Someone stabs you with a spear, could you ever find the strength and willpower to break it in half and draw yourself off that fucking spear?

SPEAKER_01 56:28

No. Hell no. The way she just like, all right, like, yo, either you're gonna pull that out or pull through.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

And I'm like crazy that she heard Killmonger and to hear like Killmonger's voice again. Like, you know, like, are you, you know, are you gonna do are you gonna get the job done or not?

SPEAKER_00 56:42

I I just don't know that I I for my first thought was when in Lord of the Rings and the fellowship, when Aragorn like stabs at Orc and he just pulls the he just pushes the blade in more and like talks shit to his face. That's what I thought she was about to do. It's like, oh Jesus. I thought she was dead in that moment. I thought they were legitimately like killing her off.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

I was like, dude, I was like in an interesting twist of events, they killed off the entire Black Panther family.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

I thought it was gonna be a lesson on like you know, revenge only kind of like well, what is it saying? Uh something about revenge takes both of you both people's eyes or something like that. I thought it was gonna be a lesson on that.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

I just love when like Namor Namor looks at her and he's like, I'm getting water. Like he's saying he's like, he's asking that now I must have a drink. You know, under all that like vibranium shit, you think he would keep like a small water like on his persons? Do you think Namor would would drink the Sani if the fresh case? You won't even drink the Sani water. Damn.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

Throws it back in the ocean. Keep your plastic out of here. Did either of you think that uh they were gonna kill off Namor? Yes. Because I I almost I was getting like I felt my anger like building because I was like, do not fucking kill off one of the most interesting and charismatic villains you guys. I mean, not just the only one, but I thought we were gonna get two villains.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

I thought Shuri was gonna turn, like just basically embrace this whole killmonger ideology for the record.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

I I thought they were gonna kill him. I'm glad they didn't. I was right there with you. I will admit, maybe I just did not pay attention to the trailers enough, or I my expectations were different. I didn't think this was going to be so focused on Wakanda and Talican fighting each other. I I I think I was expecting like a third party to step in. I thought it was gonna be a uh I thought there was gonna be a moment of like, hey, this is our common enemy. Let's team up together and and you know, stop these guys. America is the common enemy, but it was like America and the shot. America for once was like, nah, not today. Not today. We ain't gonna get involved in this. Um, it was such a vicious movie. I guess I wasn't expecting this much like tension and like um uh fighting between these two civilizations.

SPEAKER_03 58:57

Stop!

SPEAKER_02 58:57

Yeah, yeah, stop fighting.

SPEAKER_01 58:58

You're like, guys, you we're two brown civilizations, we're embarrassing ourselves. Like, this is what they want. It's like we we gotta kill the scientists. You know, there's way more scientists out in the world.

SPEAKER_00 59:09

What's the deal with uh what's her name from uh Falcon and Winter Soldier? I forget that lady from Seinfeld.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

And for the record, you're talking about Julia Louis Dreyfus. Yes, that's who we are. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

Seinfeld lady.

SPEAKER_01 59:22

She's she's the she's the new she's the new um Nick Fury. So she's getting together a whole bunch of teams. She's been showing up in all the Disney shows. She has like her own version of the Avengers kind of like coming up, and they're called Thunderbolts. So she's like ahead of the Thunderbolt. So she's like the equivalent of the new Nick Fury.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

But they're kind of like anti-heroes, right? Like she's she's not really leading. She's doing all their nice. She's like the great value Captain America.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

She's not a nice person. She's doing like all this like shady black op stuff just to keep America safe. She's like the boogeyman.

SPEAKER_02 59:58

Yeah, I wasn't expecting her neither, but she didn't really have a to be honest, she didn't really. They kind of use her and Agent Ross is kind of like just to keep the plot moving, right? Like, not even really moving that much, but Ross's role was kind of like, look, I'm just a snitch. That's it, right? Like I'm just gonna.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Oh, that's kind of bad. That was a pretty bad ass. He knew he fucked up. Oh, yeah. She already had the cuffs ready. She was like, I just want to see you with him. He's about to hang out with Baron Zemo. He's about to be in that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

Like, damn, Bill Belly trying to go on no more adventure. No more.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:34

I'm gonna keep it to myself from now on. Fuck all this.

unknown 1:00:36

Choo, choo, choo, choo, choo, choo.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

I think we've covered a big part of the movie. I feel like we've kind of regurgitated um everything that we we possibly could. I'm sure by tomorrow, uh, I'll be texting Drew, like, you know what I forgot to mention? XYZ. Or what about this scene right here? But I think for now, coming fresh out of the movie, I think we've done a good job recapping everything. But I will challenge the both of you, kind of in us closing, to give me your final words, give me maybe like your final rank. What would you rank this movie on, you know, on a scale of one to ten, ten being the best? And or give me where this movie stands and your rank of MCU phase four so far.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:10

And if you guys need I don't think this will ever beat Spider-Man. Oh, you're still holding strong? Only because uh Aunt May's death to me was such a big like, I mean, a lot of people died. She nailed that. But that that to me will never be like that. Was a moment where I was like, holy shit, this is crazy. This is number two. Number two for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:29

Sorry, let me let me do a recap for phase four MCU films so far. Uh we've had Black Widow, was the the start of phase four, Shang Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, Eternals, Spider-Man No Way Home, Doctor Strange of the Multiverse, Thor, Love, and Thunder, and the latest entry, of course, Black Panther Wakanda Forever.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

So number one would be Shang-Chi. Okay. Two Spider-Man Three Wakanda. Dang.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:53

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:54

Yeah. I like it. Alright, Blife, I send that question to you. Give me uh your your final words and then your ranking of the movie or ranking in the MCU or MCU phase four.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

I okay, um, it's easier to go last as far as movies are concerned. I think Thor is easily at the the top of that list of like the worst. Um, I'd probably go Spider-Man one and then yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Spider-Man and then Wakanda Forever. Yeah, I think it's a solid second one. I think that with Spider-Man, it's just there's so much nostalgia there between all three of those guys coming back together. That's like your childhood in one movie. But then with Waconda Forever, there was so much grief, I think, associated that this kind of movie it's gonna be very difficult to replicate that kind of grief on film again. So yeah, I the rest of the movies all kind of just fall. I I will say uh I really liked Eternals, I really liked Black Widow, which gives me in a sort of the minority. Um, and I'd probably go Doctor Strange is like closer to last.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:55

That's fair. I didn't even place any of those.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

All right. I think my my list is pretty similar. I would almost Spider-Man No Way Home. Yeah. I I keep for some reason, I don't know why. I don't want to say it. I I I have this has a moment. That is a moment. It's like, nah, it wasn't just the best. It was like it was like it was sentimental.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:21

It was 20 years of your life. Thank you, Drew.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:25

Yeah. It was sentimental. And I think it's hard for me to get over the sentimental, even though like that movie kind of to me did have uh some problems, but overall it it was like they nailed the nostalgia, and it's very difficult to do that. But I will say this is a very close second, and I think this ties with Shang-Chi to me, because Shang-Chi felt like really unique. It felt like you know they were creating their own voice and uh unique world. I think Shang-Chi kind of like dropped the the landing at the end with the whole CGI thing. But this is well, Connor Forever is tied right there, I think, for second place for the MCU phase four so far. This movie's easily gonna make a billion dollars.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

So you guys don't even factor in like the Disney Plus shows?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:05

No. I I think to me, I I think I don't know if you can. Those things are perfect the way those things are like those things are perfect. Like those Disney shows are perfect, the for like all of them. I would judge it separately, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:15

I don't think I would judge it with the movies. But even if they tie it like WandaVision, obviously, like I I go back to I think it's because it's just a different experience from like the the serial weekly thing, and it's you know, and you're judging a two-hour movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

But you have to watch those shows in order to fully grasp. I mean, not Wakanda Forever, yeah, but the all these other movies, most of them, you have to watch those series. Doctor Strange is a perfect example.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:38

I guess if I was to factor those in, I think a lot of those MCU shows would probably make that list pretty easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:43

But even uh Moon Knight, we haven't you know mentioned that. That closely ties into a lot of the mythology that's in, you know, as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:51

I was trying to make this list easy on us, but just excluding the shows and just going moving.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

That was one thing that I wanted to know because I thought we were gonna get um who is the the who's the pan the panth Panther goddess? Bass? Yes. Does she show up at all?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

And Thor, she does.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:08

She does show up.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

Okay, she's sitting very briefly, like she's sitting in like a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

I thought this maybe we were gonna get more of her. Like I thought that we were gonna get like a whole Wakanda history lesson. What isn't that like?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:18

But but that's kind of that kind of fits with the theme of like with Shuri, though, right? Like she isn't spiritual, she doesn't really believe in that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:27

Which was another good part where I liked it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:29

Yeah, she's like she's you know technological, she's science driven. Um, so it does make sense that like she doesn't see, you know, uh um T'Challa sees bias in the first movie when he takes the herb, and I think when he yeah, when he takes the herb, he sees bias, he also sees his ancestors. Sure, he doesn't, you know, it's all she sees is through water. It's killmonger who is kind of representative of her rage. Like he's not really tied to the ancestors.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

Who is the son? What do we did? Y'all remember the son's name?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:55

Oh T'Cala's son? It's T'Challa. Technically, technically it's Tichala, but he had a Haitian name too. Yeah, but to Drew's point, it is technically T'Challa's son.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

But he said like to T'Challa's son of King T'Challa, or is it Prince? Because he said his name.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

I think he says Prince Tichala's first of his name, second of the embross.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

Thank you, Drew. All right, my final words. Uh I already gave you my ranking. I would rank it second place for the MCU movie so far, Tide of Shang-Chi. Um, I think this movie pulled no punches. There it was like processing a a lot of pain. It was it was a lot of pain that you saw being worked through on screen. Whether it be like I I think definitely a a little bit of if if not just a lot, definitely a little bit of personal pain for these actors, but also um, I think, you know, with within the story itself. Um intense from the action scenes to even like the non action scenes, like some of the dialogue that's exchanged and some of those scenes of just like no pulls being punches are intense. Uh complex, like uh to Drew's point, it's kind of hard to pinpoint like who's exactly in the wrong. Obviously, there's you know, you could definitely make some cases for others, but I I do like the conflicting ideologies and approaches. And uh I don't know. It's just like watching world politics with superheroes. I I love the aspect of like seeing two kingdoms like go at it. I mean, like, you know, we were joking we've been joking about Game of Thrones, and that is one thing I do enjoy, is like that watching like, you know, royalty and playing chess among each other. This was kind of like that a little bit, right? Like seeing like royalty in the MCU uh uh play out was was really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

And this is the the end of phase four, right? With Wakanda Forever. That's the last part of phase four. Really?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

That's a good point. Yeah, we get into phase five after this with uh Ant-Man. Yeah, but the last thing I wanted to say real quick is overall, I I think I definitely gotta give them kudos for showing us the impact of Tichalla as well as the actor that played him. Like it they it was like both sides of the coin. Like we felt and got to see them pay respect to the man that played, you know, portrayed this character, but also within the story itself, they were able to seamlessly also, you know, have the characters paid their respect, and also making it feel like, like I said, it felt like he was spiritually there, like his legacy was you know still a big part of the story.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

Their grief felt like it was almost them just it's a documentary instead of them acting.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

Just like I will definitely buy definition cameras.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:25

I will definitely be looking forward to a you know, the quote unquote Blu-ray release, the digital release with the extended scenes and and the behind. I wanna, I wanna like I I definitely want to look into some of the interviews and and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

And Ryan Kugler wrote this movie. Not only did he direct this movie, he wrote this movie. I think he had a writing partner, which is also like okay. Do you think he's gonna direct another movie? And if so I hope they give him Doctor Doom. I hope they give him a Dr. Doom.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:49

Give him Wakanda and just let him build world build that. I think that that would be incredibly fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

What if he does the Fantastic Four movie?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:57

You know, uh uh Drew, I'm gonna nerd out here for you a little bit. I was talking with um Trey with Trey Namo, and we were both like, do you think he was telling me like there was some rumblings on the internet prior to this movie coming out that you know there was gonna be a big cameo. We were both like, man, it'd be kind of cool if Doctor Doom showed up or the Fantastic Four, it would make sense if we've Black Panther, but we didn't get nothing. To your point, nothing. We did not really get big cameoshit. They let this story, and I think that's what was cool about it was how focused this movie was.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:28

Like, no, we're telling the story of this family and like this new civilization, which was very much needed because phase four has been so confusing, I think, to the hardcore fans and the casual fans. Like, I I mentioned Doctor Strange earlier, and my uncle only watches the movies, he doesn't watch any of the Disney Plus shows. So he didn't know that turn that Wanda makes during her series. He's like, What's going on? So he just shows up and he's like, What the hell is going on? She has kids, like he has no idea about any of these things, and so it's felt a little discombobulated because you're not sure if things are supposed to be connected, are they standing on their own? Like, what's going on with phase four? And this felt like its own thing, and maybe that's how future it future Marvel properties need to be treated as their own thing, instead of this like expanded universe that needs to be connected over every single thing that you do over a period of 10 years. Like, just let these properties breathe on their own, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:28

That's a good point. That is well said, and I think that brings us to a good closing as well for this episode. Listeners, we have given you uh over an hour recap, fresh recap. All right, like I said, we recorded this right after the movie. It is close to midnight. We are tired and we still gotta process, you know, uh this movie in our own way. Like I said, it was very We gotta grieve. Yeah, we gotta process it. So I'm gonna go ahead and bid all of you ado now. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. If you have your own thoughts and comments about the movie, if you want to talk about your favorite scene with us, or maybe you know, chime in on the conversation. Maybe you know you agreed on something we shared or disagreed. We'd love to hear it from you guys. Shoot us an email at theshortboxjacks at gmail.com or shoot us a DM on Instagram and Twitter. And besides that, I hope you guys enjoyed the movie and uh you guys be well. All right. Thank you so much for tuning in. Continue to make mine and yours short box. Peace.