From Reveal to DC Comics: Al Letson Talks Reinventing Michael Holt in Mr. Terrific: Year One

Al Letson — award-winning journalist, Godzilla: Monarch writer, and Emmy winning host of Reveal — joins the show to talk about his upcoming DC Comics debut: Mr. Terrific: Year One. We dive into the emotional inspiration behind the series, the differences between writing for TV and comics, and how Al is redefining Michael Holt’s origin story—just in time for the character’s live-action debut in Superman this summer. 

Order Mister Terrific: Year One at your local comic shop by May 5th to ensure you don't miss out!

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Transcript

Reintroducing Michael Holt, and the making of Mr. Terrific: Year One w/ journalist and writer: Al Letson - The Short Box Podcast Ep. 455

00:00
In this episode of The Short Box.  What's interesting about, I think, Mr. Terrific is that the personal thing that I really wanted to talk about  was  in 2022,  my best friend passed away from cancer. And it just,  you know, I am like a different version of Al now, like I am the version of Al without Ian. And I wanted to find a way

00:29
to talk about grief and brotherhood in a comic book and then surround it with  the trappings of dark side and  all these other things and an evil technologist billionaire. The stuff that I learned with Scott [Snyder] like was a perfect way to like channel it all and think about it.

01:02
intro music plays

01:19
Yo, Short Box Nation. Hello again, welcome back and most importantly, happy new comic book day. All right, so another Wednesday, another new podcast. Thanks for pressing play today. If you're new, welcome to the show. My name is Badr and this is the Short Box Podcast, the comic book talk show that brings you the best conversations about your favorite comics with the creators that put their blood, sweat and tears into making them. This is episode 454. I'm so excited to say I've got Al Letson on the podcast.

01:44
Now, if you've never heard that name before, maybe you scratch your head, you're like, who's Al Letson? Look, Al Letson is a Peabody Award-winning journalist, an accomplished playwright and performance artist. He's also a TV writer for shows like Godzilla Monarch. And he's also the host of the highly respected and investigative reporting show Reveal. You might be asking yourself, though, what is a big time radio host and TV writer doing on a comic book podcast? Al Letson is also a published comic book writer, as if he didn't already have enough hobbies and skills and talent.

02:12
He's got creator-owned comics to his name like the Sci-Fi epic Imperfect and Planetfall. He's also an alumnus of the second DC Comic Writers Workshop, which resulted in him writing his first story for DC Comics back in 2017. Well, almost eight years later, and he's back at DC with his first full-length work, he's writing Mr. Terrific Year One, which is a brand new limited series that serves not only as a modern retelling, but also an expansion of Mr. Terrific's origin story.

02:40
The series will feature art by award-winning artist, Valentin de Alondro. And issue one hits comic shops everywhere on May 28th, one day after my birthday. So if you want to get me anything, just go pick up Mr. Terrific year one at your local comic shops. All right, that'd be plenty for me. The issue in this  new comic series comes out just in time for Mr. Terrific's live action debut in the new Superman movie later this year. So obviously we've got plenty to talk about with Al coming up. But first,  I'd like to start by shouting out the longest running sponsor of the podcast,

03:10
Gotham City Limit Comic Shop. They're Jack Sewell's premier shop for comics, collectibles, toys, and more. And we can't talk about supporters of the show without giving a shout out to the patrons that make it possible for me to keep the lights on here at Short Box HQ. So big shout out to my Patreon subscribers. I'll shout all of you out by name at the end of the episode. And if you're listening right now and you're like, I would like a shout out at the end of the episode, consider becoming a member of the Short Box Patreon community at patreon.com slash short box.

03:39
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04:08
And a big thank you to all the existing and future patrons of the show. And now we can start the show.  Short Box Nation, without further ado, let's welcome a real deal, Jack's hometown hero in radial royalty. It's Al Letson.  What up, Al?  Thank you, thank you, thank you. Welcome back to the pod.  Yes.  Yo, you know, I have to say, I have to say that there's truth in advertising because the last time I saw you in person was at Gotham City Limits.

04:37
Refresh my memory. What were you picking up that day? I don't remember.  know, because I like split time between Florida and, uh, in California, I don't have a pull at, uh, at Gotham city limits. So I always just,  I make sure I go in like every week just to be sure I get the, the,  the new hotness.  Uh, so I don't remember what I was getting that day. think, um, probably like.

05:02
I've definitely been digging the absolute  Batman, the absolute  Wonder Woman. I like the absolute Superman. I'm not as crazy about it as I am Batman and Wonder Woman though. Same. think Batman and Wonder Woman, it's like on another level. to be honest with you, I haven't given absolute Superman  a fair shot past issue one. So maybe I'll pick that up and trade. But I am curious to hear, like, I guess when you're not in Jack shopping, I got them City Limit.

05:29
How do you get your comic fix and Cali? What shops are you visiting there? Yeah, so  in the Bay, I live in Alameda and I always go to Cape and Cal Comics, which is in Oakland.  It's an amazing shop. I love it.  Just as much as I love Gotham City  Limits. mean, those two shops, they're so perfect, right? Because they like what I love about both of them is they feel like the old school shops that I went to as a kid.

05:56
The big difference though is that they're super welcoming.  The shops that I went to as a kid, I used to go to Zeno's  in Jacksonville. Man, Zeno's is classic. It was cutthroat. We're talking like comic shops where they were quick to pull your nerd card.  What are you doing here? Exactly. Do you know the first appearance of Mr. Terrific? No? All right. Well, then no comics for you. Comic not. Exactly. Exactly.

06:23
Exactly. Whereas, whereas like, you know, Cape and Cal and Gotham city limits  are, totally,  totally great and welcoming. And, um,  cause I used to, my joint for years, for many, many, many, many, many years  was a universe of superheroes on Park Street and then, uh, and then, uh, Black Hive on Park Street. So yeah, man, uh, been, been a comic nerd for forever in a day.  before we really get into our, our comic nerd bag and get to talk to Mr. Terrific.

06:52
I want to first  congratulate you as well as the entire reveal crew on 10 years, man. 10 years of reveal, of superb investigative journalism.  I was listening to the 10 year recap episode that you guys dropped I think earlier this month or last month. I'm listening to it now playing catch up.  And as someone that edits his own show that's really big in production and sound quality, you guys have one of the best sounding shows ever. Are you recording from  this?

07:20
this episode or this interview from the real studio? yeah, this is where, well, it's not like my studio  for reveal is like in my bedroom and I've just cordoned off a portion of it.  We used to have like, yeah, we used to have like a  dope studio pre-pandemic, but then the pandemic came and all that went away. So yeah, now I record out of my bedroom  and it works.  But yeah, man, thank you for the props on it. Like  I never.

07:49
Well, first of all, like getting into journalism, like it was never  the thing that I was longing for, just what I stumbled into.  And so  to do it this long and to work with such amazing people,  you talk about the editing on the show and all of that, putting it together.  All I do is talk pretty.  There's so many other people that like put it together and make it what it is. So I'm just,  I feel really  super honored.

08:17
to have been in that position for decade now. I'm curious to hear from you, know, with 10 years underneath the belt as the full-time host, what's been the most important lesson you've learned from doing, you know, Reveal? And then also, I guess, could you talk about embracing your role as not only a host, but coming into your own as a journalist? Because that was something you said in the recap, was that, you know, you were a little reluctant to call yourself a journalist in the beginning, but...

08:42
you know, at some point, you you really started embracing that role and giving it the honor and the respect that it deserves. What do you think about that now? Yeah, I mean, like I think that for  for a long time,  I consider myself a storyteller because,  that's where that's what I fell in love with.  And when I got the job at Reveal, I still thought of myself as a storyteller.  But.

09:07
You know, I'm surrounded by all these journalists and then I started learning like what the work of journalism is,  at least the brand that we do at Reveal, which is accountability journalism, like holding people accountable for what they've said and what they've done.  And,  you know, in 2016,  you know, when Trump was running,  he was very much, you know, talking about  the press, like we were the enemy.  And I felt like it was really important for me to like,

09:34
step up and take that mantle and say, like, no, I am a journalist  because I was doing the work.  But I think that also, like, there was a time in my life when I think what was really one of the things that I used to think was important was like what degrees you have behind your name and blah, blah, blah, and all that stuff.  And now at this portion of my life, I'm like, man, can you do the job? Can you get it done? Do you have a passion for it? You know?

09:59
And I do, I never went to J school,  I feel like Reveal has been my on the job  school of journalism. And it's been a wild ride. Hell yeah. Well, you're a very multi-talented individual, especially when it comes to the writing side of things. I guess what's more challenging or which one do you prefer more? Do you prefer writing plays or poems or writing scripts for TV and radio or comics in this case? I guess how different.

10:25
is your approach to each one of those? Is it vastly different or pretty much the same?  So  I enjoy them  all equally  because they  all work  very different  muscles.  They're all very similar in a lot of ways, but  for me, a lot of times, working  on  a comic script  is like a puzzle.

10:50
because you're taking these still images and thinking about how it all connects together to tell a larger story  and how you  I Love like trying to figure out how much I can fit into a page and what I can't fit into a page  I love in comic books like thinking about the page flip  I love in comic books thinking about how you're gonna end it like all of those things like it's it's like this  mystery and a puzzle that like it just  I Love it. I absolutely love it

11:19
And then there's something about like when you get the art back after like  the experience of Mr. Terrific has been so, might I say terrific?  Because  we've got two artists on it  and  every time I send out a script,  so we've got  Edwin Galman who is doing like,  there is a present day story in the book and then the rest of the book is like a flashback story,  which is Val Delandro. And so  every time I send it,

11:49
off to them and like, you know,  20 days later I get these beautiful pages that by far exceed whatever I had in my head.  I mean, Val,  Val makes me look good. I'm like, damn dog. Like  that panel has like, okay.  Like, wait, I, I wrote that. I wrote that. Yeah, that's what I meant. That's what I meant. Yes. Yes. That's exactly what I meant. So it's,  so yeah, man, it's, so that is amazing. I think, um,  you know, with, uh,

12:19
with a TV show, like I am, I can't talk about what the show is, but I can tell you that  I created a show with a big network  and we are opening up a writer's room and I am  co show running it. So  I came up with the concept, but I've never co I've never show run a show before. So they partnered me up with someone who had.  so  writing  for that is a very different thing than, than say writing for a comic book.

12:47
But it's also very fun. I love doing it. I love like, you know,  how you have to think about it. It's just a very different,  different feel.  I would say the thing that I love more than all of it though, isn't really the writing.  The thing that I love the most is performing. So I love writing like solo performances and getting on stage.  I am a typical middle child and  I need people to clap for me. I am addicted to clap cocaine. Like if I can get people clapping then like.

13:15
Oh,  you love me. You know, so that's my that's my number one love and writing is my number two. When it comes to being a showrunner, I understand it as like showrunners kind of like the project manager of like a show, right? Like they kind of like.  Yeah, would say like the  the best analogy for a showrunner is like you think of  a  a  TV series or TV show as a corporation, then the showrunner is the CEO.

13:43
And you're handling everything from your overseeing the stories, you're handling your staff,  you're hiring the actors, you're hiring the grips, you're hiring, you're doing everything.  It's a really big job. I mean,  the show that I am currently making is probably when it's all said and done, going to be like, you know, $6 million an episode.

14:10
and we'll probably do like eight episodes. And $6 million an episode isn't really all that expensive for TV. Like most TV people, when they hear that number, they'll be like, ooh, ouch. That's a,  you what I was, for example, I think when I was working on Monarch, we were probably hitting somewhere around 15 million an episode. you know, but it's, you know, the CEO, the CEO of  the TV show, the show runner,  you're kind of responsible for all of that. So it's a really big job.

14:35
And yeah, I'm looking forward to doing it.  I've been working on TV for now since 2017. I've,  you the vernacular in the business is like, I've sold some shows, like I've had ideas that I went to networks and they bought them  and we developed them  and they never made it on air. So now with this one, this is the first one that I'm developing this moving into a writer's room.  So it's a big step forward and I'm really looking forward to it. I can't wait for the announcement. I know that's going to be exciting. Yeah.

15:04
But we're talking about writers  rooms and it's got me thinking about writers workshops.  And the last time that you were on the podcast, which was around 2017, back when  you had just completed the DC writers workshop and you had a story coming out and I think it was called DC New Talent Showcase Issue 1, which was like an annual  special comic book that they put together after every one of their  workshops. You had the privilege of writing a short.

15:30
Nightwing story that featured the Bat family. So which was insane, right? It's like, well, your first, you know,  DC work is writing Nightwing and,  getting to write the Bat family. And now eight years later, you're getting to once again work with DC. I guess, could you kind of fill us in and what was the inception of the Mr. Terrific series? How did that opportunity come about? Yeah, sure. So like the DC comic  writers workshop was was excellent  in the sense that like  Scott Snyder was our teacher and Scott was great.

16:00
Like he's just,  he's a great writer and a really good teacher. And then also like my cohorts in that class, would, you know, some of them, I mean, it's been years now and some of them, like they're like family. Like I talk to them all the time  and we met in that writers class.  So that was great. And I got to write Nightwing. And then after that, like that was right around the time when my TV career kind of picked up.  And so I just started writing a lot of TV.

16:27
and kept thinking that like, I'm going to get back to doing some independent comics. I didn't really have any pitches for DC. I didn't have any real ideas. I wasn't really pushing it every now and then I would check in. had this one idea and I would check in with this editor who worked with us there in the writers workshop. And she's now she's the editor on Mr. Terrific. She's great. Andrea Shay, who like hands down is one of the best editors I've ever worked with. She's she's amazing. I mean, hands down, she's so good.

16:56
So anyway, uh, I just kind of worked in TV,  uh, and  reveal, and that was it. And then  Tom King did you're wearing the shirt. I was hoping, I was hoping you'd appreciate this.  Yes.  Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Tom King did,  uh, the, uh, the series where it was,  um,  strange adventures, strange adventures, strange adventures. did strange adventures.  I have to say that like, I'm a huge Tom King fan.

17:23
I, what I love about Tom is that he swings for the fences every time.  Sometimes like the story isn't for me. Sometimes I'm like, eh,  but most of the time  he knocks out the park. Even, even the stories that like are not for me, like  I love the ambition of what he's trying to do. Like he's, he's such an ambitious storyteller and it just makes me super excited to read his work.  Um, anyway, he did strange adventures and Mr. Terrific was in there  and  there was  one.

17:51
page, just one page  where I had never really connected with Mr. Terrific before. thought like he's cool or whatever, but never thought much about him.  But there was a page where Mr. Terrific was talking about that he,  uh, his wife died and she was pregnant  and  he basically admitted that, you know, he didn't want to be a father. Um, and, and like that guilt and that feeling, heaviness,  and  I immediately, immediately connected with the character because

18:21
It was such vulnerability that I had never seen from this character before.  Or really,  a lot of comic book characters, I don't see that kind of vulnerability.  And when I saw that, it just spoke to me in this way that like, I wanted to do something with Mr. Terrific  because I felt like, I get him now. I understand. Like Tom helped me understand him. Even though like, you know, officially  that book is a black label book and not in continuity,  it still  taught me something about what

18:50
could be said about the character.  And so many, many, years ago, when I was in the DC writers workshop, I hung out with Tom King and Tom King was telling me like the way that he kind of figured out how to get in and do all these stories at all these different places was taking obscure characters  and really like breathing life into them. That was his key to his success. Yeah, it makes sense because I think his big breakout was like Omega Men  and then like that awesome vision story, a series that he wrote for Marvel. So  that tracks.

19:19
Yeah. So that's what he was doing. And that's what he told me that he said that if you can figure that out, boom. So that's what I was thinking when I started thinking about Mr. Terrific, that he is a, uh, you know, and this is before James Gunn put him in Superman. But like, thought like, you know, he's the people know him, but they don't know him and I could take him and do something with it. But my idea was that because I write TV.

19:45
I want to write  in the DC  and the Marvel universes.  And I have not had any luck kind of breaking in.  have friends who have, a friend of mine was the show runner on  the new series with  Ironheart, Riri Williams is coming out. So I know a lot of people who have worked in those universes, but I haven't had the chance yet.  So I thought, why not  write a pilot for Mr. Terrific as a TV show?

20:13
I was under no illusion that anybody would ever turn this into a TV show. I just wanted to make a sample to show them that I could write superheroes in a grounded way.  So I wrote this whole pilot. I loved it. I thought it was great. My team loved it. They thought it was great.  And right when I finished it, the writer's strike was going on. So I couldn't send it into DC film and TV  because I'm a member of the union. wouldn't do that.  But the comic book side,

20:42
I could totally send it to. And because I knew an editor there, Andrea, who worked with me on the writer's workshop, I was like, hey, Andrea, like I I created this pilot. think it would make a great comic book. Do you want to read it?  And she was like, hell yeah, I'll read it. So I sent it to her.  She read it. She wrote me back. She was like, oh my God, this would make a great comic book. She was like,  give me some time because the timing has to be right in order for us to put it out, you know, but give me some time and we'll start pitching. And I was like, all right, cool.

21:10
Uh, time turned into a year and I didn't hear from her. And then, uh, James gun tweeted the first picture  of,  uh,  uh, Mr. Terrific from the movie  and everybody was talking about it online. Andrea was like, it's been a year. I'm sorry, but now's the time. And I was like, let's do it. She was like, give me a pitch. gave her a pitch. We worked on the pitch.

21:32
And  yeah, and then her editor, her boss said, yeah, let's do it. And so, yeah, they took the idea, me and Andrea shaped it a little bit.  DC loved the idea of doing a year one. That was my pitch is that, because what I'd written was like a origin story form, kind of redefining the origin story.  And DC loved the year one thing, but they were just like, there's so much going on in the universe now. We would like to have like a little bit that

22:02
gives us now and flashbacks. So that's what did.  Man, that is an impressive story. To your point, Mr. Terrific is a character I'm familiar with.  I'm like, yeah, he's got the best jacket in all of comic books. Right on.  And I do love that Tom King runs Strange Adventures and how he's kind of like the second main character and his portrayal in that. I actually ended up reading  issue two this morning, which is the  issue where

22:28
Mr. Terrific is  contemplating taking the case of investigating Adam Strange. And  it's the whole scene of his T-sphere is quizzing him the entire time and  all of that. Such a great issue. Even if you don't know anything about Mr. Terrific, that one issue kind of gives you a good broad stroke of who he is. So I say all of that to say the solicitation for this comic book states that  they call Mr. Terrific the secret origin of Summer's breakout superhero.

22:58
The breakout superhero, all right. Yeah. What are some characteristics about Mr. Terrific that you feel  make him, that will make him the breakout superhero? Like, I guess, like, is the hype deserved? What is it about Mr. Terrific that that fans should get excited for? What I love about Mr. Terrific  is that he, A, uses his mind,  that he out thinks everybody.  His tag used to be he's the third smartest man in the DC universe.

23:27
My series explains who number one and number two are,  but I would just say that like being number third is still pretty bad ass.  like  he's able to- In a world of gods and you know, Superman, like third is not too shabby.  It's not too shabby.  Uh, two, I think that, uh,  what  I wanted to do,  and I think what I love to do with my writing is like just imbue it with a whole lot of heart.

23:53
And so while there is tragedy and despair that the character has to overcome, there's also this big pumping heart in it that tells you who Mr. Terrific is, the sense of responsibility, the love. One of the things that I did not like about the New 52 Mr. Terrific version was that they moved Mr. Terrific, I think he was in Los Angeles. And I think that like what drives me a little bit crazy, especially in the DC universe,

24:21
is when you take a character and you put him in an actual city.  Like I'm like, no, I want my characters to be in Gotham, in Metropolis, in Gateway.  And so like, you know, I got to put Mr. Terrific in Gateway City,  make him connected to Gateway City. Gateway City is where the first Mr. Terrific was from. Like it all kind of makes sense.  And so yeah, I think that like, he's just, he is a good, good man who at times messes up.

24:51
but when he messes up, he goes out and he gets it right. And that's what I really loved about him is that like the story we're telling is a story about a guy who made a big mistake, but he's man enough to say, made a mistake and go out and fix it. feel like that if we had more people like that in the world, the world would be so much better. Yeah. And also like, you know, he's got the best jacket in, in comics. He's, you know. I gotta say, you know, I was thinking today, this is terrific. It's perfect for Al.

25:21
You know, it's like a multi-talented black man that looks damn good in a leather jacket. mean, they've got a lot of similarities. I'm going to put that on my too. So I was like, Mr. Terrific multi-talented black man. We're talking about the story. wanted to read the solicitation that that DC has for issue one. And then I want you to add anything to it and maybe specifically maybe talk about how

25:51
how the story has evolved from the original pilot. I am curious what the story about the pilot is. I'm gonna read the solicitation and I wanna get your thoughts, right? Oh, yeah. All right, here's what we got from Mr. Terrific year one, if anyone's interested. The secret origin of Summer's breakout superhero. Brilliant young inventor Michael Holt's life was destined for greatness, yet everything screeched to a halt when his wife, Paula, and unborn son were killed in a car accident.

26:17
The Holtz once shared ambitious dreams of using their technology to help others. But after the tragedy, retreats from society and sells Holtz Industries to mysterious and craven tech billionaire, Athena Prescott. The domino effect of Michael's actions set off an explosive chain of events that take a not-so-ordinary man from the depths of despair to the heights of heroism. Meanwhile, the present day, Mr. Terrific continues his research into what became of Darkseid after the events of the DC All-In special.

26:45
and comes to realize that his past and the present might be inextricably linked. Discover all the secret sorrows and triumphs of Mr. Triffic and how he came to be in this thrilling modern retelling and expansion of his origin story. Wow.  That's a great sum up. They did a good job. I haven't read it, but that's really,  that's it. mean, I think, you know, for me,  the origin of,  first of all, just  foundational,  the

27:15
Gentlemen, what is it? Auslander and Mandrake, I think was the artist. They did excellent work. Like I love that episode, that issue of the Spectre. I think it's Spectre 54. It's great. But the thing that I thought about a lot when I started thinking about like how to redo this origin story or how to improve the origin story or maybe expand is the right word, expand this origin story was that, you know, Mr. Terrific's origin starts in somebody else's book.

27:45
which means the focus is on what the specter wanted to talk about and not what was going on with Mr. Terrific. So to me, felt like  you take that as a basis and then you begin to fill out all the other things that was into it.  I think that in the specter version, it's sort of like,  Michael is like, oh, my wife died, I'm sad. And the specter is like, don't be sad, be a hero. And I felt like that wasn't motivation enough, right? Like that I needed something that like kicked him into action.  And I love the idea that

28:13
that sometimes like  every  action has an equal and opposite reaction, right? And so like,  you know,  if Michael  sold his company and selling that company like triggered something, then he's got to figure out how to fix it. And to me, it felt like, okay, that's a valid way to motivate my character to do something crazy. Cause it's really crazy to put on leather  and put a T on your face and they have floating balls and go out and fight crime. And you're just a normal dude.

28:40
Meanwhile, you're fighting with these gods and these villains that have powers you can't even imagine.  So to me, it was all about figuring out a good motivation for the character to go out and get it. And that was the  beginning of it.  It's very different than the pilot that I wrote.  I would like to think that the character of Michael is consistent and the character of Michael's best friend,  Dre, is very consistent,  but  the circumstances are really different.

29:08
Uh, mostly because like a lot of the circumstances that I was playing with in the pilot had to do with, uh, with AI, uh, and with, uh, sentient, uh, machines and, uh, DC had just gone through a whole thing with sentient machines in absolute power. So was like, we can't, we really can't do that beat again. So it was like, we figured out something else, but yeah, I think, I think it turned out pretty well. I actually ended up reading the, that first appearance that Spectre issue 54 this morning. And I agree.

29:38
Reading it, I'm like, Michael just sat there the whole time hearing Spectre give this long windage spiel.  New to me, I didn't know there was an original Mr. Terrific prior to Michael Holt.  So that was all kind of new. So  I do like the sound of putting Michael front and center in his story as well. And I wanted to go back to something you said. You said you're not a big fan of  when heroes are placed in real cities.

30:04
Why is that? it just,  I guess, do you find more creative liberties with like a fictional city? A little bit, but I mean, think like just being really honest, like I think the only characters that end up in real cities are black characters.  Why do the black characters always end up in Los Angeles or Detroit?  And why can't we, like, if you think about it, like I can't think of any white DC character that is from a regular city.

30:31
but I can name several black characters that are from regular cities. Like  Cyborg is from Detroit.  Mr. Terrific was in Los Angeles.  I can't remember. There's a couple other ones. So for me, was just like,  I just want to lean into the fantasy. yeah, I just want to lean into the fantasy. And I think  for me, it was also really important  to connect

31:01
Mr. Terrific to the larger world of DC comics and DC characters.  So there are characters that pop up in this year one that you're not expecting to pop up that he has had long relationships with  that you didn't know about. There's an issue four.  I pitched this to  Andrea  and Marquis, who is also an editor on it.  And at first they were like, huh.

31:28
and  involving a character that you're just not really expecting.  And then later on they were like,  oh,  like it's pretty awesome  how it all plays together. And I will also say that like, there are stories that happened about Mr. Terrific  in  the last couple of years that a lot of people have not read. And so there are things that have happened in his life that are significant.  And, but they,

31:57
In my opinion, they felt like they were a little bit out of the blue. And so what I've wanted to do is figure out a way to connect all of it and make it all flow really well. So is it safe to say that there's not like hundreds of Mr. Terrific issues to go read and catch up on? mean, maybe if you count like all his supporting roles, but it sounds like you've done a lot of like homework in terms of like reading his story, anything out there. Does anything stand out to you in terms of like?

32:21
that was done kind of interesting with the character, maybe like a plot device or an appearance or something that's happened in the comics? Yeah, I I thought all of them were  all of them had something that I dug about it. I mean, I think that  what was interesting in the New 52 is the take on  the technology and like what  Mr. Terrific was all about.  I think to me, like the number one thing again is Tom King, like Tom King's portrayal of the character really like.

32:48
It is a different portrayal than what I am doing in the  comics or in the because  his portrayal is outside of the continuity. My portrayal is like in the continuity and has to figure out a way how to work with Justice League and all of that type of stuff. Right.  So they're not one for one. They're not the same. But  I took a lot from from what he was doing  on that topic. How difficult is it to factor in  like the continuity aspect? Because not only you telling an updated

33:18
origin story and expanding on what came before and telling, know, giving your own fresh take on it. But you're also, you know, from the solicitation, it's a two-fold story where you're telling a story in the present as well as the past. You're also, you've got to tie in, you know, with Dark Side did in the DC All In special. I guess how difficult is that or is that where your editors have like come in and provide that support? Well, so what the editors do is that like I would pitch something out.

33:47
And if they liked it, they would give me reference material. They'd be like, oh, you should read this, you should read that.  And then I would read it  and get  a fuller sense of it.  I think that what my kind of  storytelling superpower is,  is that  I can kind of see a long narrative arc pretty quickly. And so  what  I  saw  from when the All In special came out,

34:16
They said, like I was pitching right around this  before All In came out.  But so they sent me the All In special like, you know, month or two before it came out  and I got to see what it starts,  how it started. But I also, there's plot points from older  issues  that I saw how they played out. And then, you know, my superpower of like being able to see the long arc was able to connect all those things.  And I connected it and figured out how it made it work.

34:42
I love doing that stuff. So for me, like, I know a lot of people get,  they don't like dealing with continuity.  They don't like figuring out. And I understand it because it definitely can be a pain in the butt when you try it, when you want your character to do X, but you can't do X because  it's been done here and there.  But for me, like, it's just a challenge. It's a storytelling challenge. It's a puzzle, you know? And like, I just think about how to move things around.  I am  super happy  with  the way that

35:12
the book starts and how we are able to book ended really well at the end of episode six  or issue six.  And so yeah,  and I've got an idea for another mini series for Mr. Terrific that I really want to do. We'll see how this one sells,  but we'll see. It's got to be a cool full circle moment. know, Scott Snyder being in that class, getting to learn from him and then getting to work off of like this huge story that, you know, he's spearheading.  guess.

35:42
What lessons or skills  are you tapping into from that workshop from 2017 in this story? Because I imagine maybe some of that barrier to entry was eliminated because you just went through a workshop. You kind of understand DC's tone and how they want things written and things like that. Is that true? Yeah, totally, totally.  think that thank God for  Andrea because the workshop was like seven, eight years ago.

36:11
I think that the higher ups at DC  were a little bit worried whether I'd be able to do it because,  you know, TV and  comic books are very different mediums and trying to, know, how do you do that?  But I think that like what gave me the upper leg is that I had work with Scott. What Scott is really good at and what he preached to a lot with  the,  with the class was like to find that personal thing that  you feel or you want to talk about.

36:41
and then surround it with the big thing. Like comic books have got to be big.  know, like nobody wants to read a comic book that feels so subtle and soft. Like it's got to be big and loud.  And if you look at  Scott's work,  it's big and loud, right? Like  big swings, big swings.  So I think that like, you know, what's interesting about, I think Mr. Terrific is that the personal thing that I really wanted to talk about

37:10
was  in 2022,  my best friend passed away from cancer. And it just,  you know, I am like a different version of Al now, like I am the version of Al without Ian.  And I wanted to find a way to talk about  grief and brotherhood  in  a comic book and then surround it with all this big,  with,

37:36
the trappings of dark side and all these other things and an evil technologists billionaire. mean, evil technologists billionaire, like where would we find one of those? I was just thinking about all of those things and the stuff that I learned with Scott like was a perfect way to like channel it all and think about it. So I think what I have not seen from Mr. Terrific.

38:04
in all the iterations that I've seen of him  is  including like  the Tom King thing is that he's a very solitary man,  that he is  kind of alone. the question I had is like, how does he get that way?  Even in The Terrifics, he's a very solitary dude.  So I wanted to figure out like, how did this guy get that way? And the way that guy got that way, I understand it because  like when Ian  passed, like I didn't want to talk to anybody. I just wanted to like,

38:33
you I had to work, so I wanted to work and I wanted to come home.  You know I'm saying?  And I think Mr. Terrific like took it a little too far, obviously. So those were like kind of the stories that I wanted to tell through the lens  of like how Scott Snyder tells these big crazy stories,  but has heart in them as well. Yeah. Well, I guess I had to ask, what's your impression  of Eddie Gathikee, who is portraying Mr. Terrific?

39:00
in the live action movie. mean, obviously we've only gotten, you know, maybe a combined total of maybe not even a minute of seeing him in the costume on screen with the T spheres. But based on what we've seen so far, I mean, do you like the look? I mean, what type of impression do get from that? I think the look is great. I like Eddie. I mean, like, listen, any justice that I can give for Darwin, I'm going to take. I'm so glad you said that because I was like, wait a minute, Darwin is getting a comeback. is what happened. right, right. Exactly.

39:28
Darwin, Darwin didn't die. He just switched to another universe.  So yeah, I think he's a great actor. I love what he does on screen. There's so many roles of his that I love.  And the look is perfect. I, you know,  I'm, it's so weird to me. It's so weird to me because like I'm on Reddit and on all the boards. I never comment or anything, but  I just read. It's so weird to me how many people are like  thinking and hoping that James Gunn will fail.

39:58
And I just think  one, you're not a true fan if you  are hoping that something fails.  Because, you know, the Marvel people will tell you they want DC stuff  to do well  because it creates an atmosphere where everybody gets to do well, right? So it's like, you know,  but also I think that you're, you'd be  foolish to bet against James Gunn. You just be foolish. The track record speaks for itself, man. Speaks for itself. I mean, he took.

40:27
Peacemaker  and made a classic. I mean that first season is so good You can't go wrong with this guy Guardians of the Galaxy like he took nobodies and made them into like and look I'm an old-school Guardians of the Galaxy guy when the movie came out I was like,  I don't know any of these characters except for the raccoon like, you know So for me like I am so  and also I will say this is that  I do not hate the Snyder verse  I just always felt the Snyder verse was not for me

40:57
That's the way I feel about like everything is that like, if I don't like it, it just means it's not for me. Like that's not my thing. But my number one reason why I didn't like the Snyder verse or why I felt like it was not for me is because I felt like they got Superman wrong. I felt like, you know, Superman for me, it has to be,  um,  it has to be an version of all-star Superman because all-star Superman got who the character was  so perfectly like,

41:27
If you can get that,  if you can get that and  Christopher Reeves and that feeling that you get from those two things,  you've nailed Superman. You've nailed it. And I don't think, you know,  I think that Henry Cavill looked great and I think he probably could have been those better script and the right, better script and better, you know, direction.  It could have been that, but it wasn't. So for me, like looking at what, when I saw the trailer of Superman with James Gunn, like I,

41:55
I got choked up because I was like,  guy is back. My guy is back. I was like,  when I watched it, I was like, what is this feeling that is bubbling in my  chest? Oh my God. think it's hope.  Yes. Hope that a DC movie is going to be really good. Yes.  Yeah. And I got to say Eddie Gathegie  looks great as Mr. Triffig, the little bit that we've seen.  just on some.

42:21
Basic fanboy shit. I really hope they nailed the T spheres because I think that is such a cool addition about Mr. Triffic I think that's what kind of like, you know, obviously gives them, you know, ability to be on par with these heroes and these villains  At least physicality wise and power wise. Yes  But I think the T spheres man like just the amount of things they could do with it on screen to make it interesting You know, in the comic books he's using them as you know,  even in the cartoons, by the way I think I feel like we definitely got a shout out Justice League Unlimited

42:50
Cause he's awesome in that, know, a voice by Michael Beach at that. But, know, like the T-sphere is, know, you can use them as shields and, know, uh, infiltration and, know,  you could bring up data. It's like, you know, it's like Iron Man suit in sephira, you know, sphere form. Right, right, right. And I, uh, in the comic book,  um,  we are striving to use the T-sphere in all the ways you know them,  but also in ways that you haven't seen them. Um, because like my thing is like,

43:20
If I had T-Sphere, there are things that I would do that I've never seen done.  I like what  I don't want to tell. I just say that  two things I would say is that one of the conversations I had with Val is I was like, Val, you know what I really want to do? I really want to have terrific team up with character X. And when he teams up with character X,  we should think about it the same way.

43:47
Colossus and Wolverine when they team up, they have the fastball special. We need to make our own fastball special for these two characters.  And he was like, whoa. So we got like, it'll be in the final episode in  six, final issue in six,  where  these two characters team up  and they get their own,  they get their own like kind of fastball special. I've noticed that as the second time that you've called.

44:15
issue  an episode, which I've kind of done myself a couple of times because you just that like, episodic nature of  a lot of comics, but it does bring to mind a question that  do you have the entire story written out? Like, do you write the scripts much like you do a TV? Are you treating this  episodically, every issue episodically?  totally.  So  because  because there are so many tight plot points that I have to hit.

44:43
we outline the whole thing  and then you start writing. And then like, I think once I got to,  once I'd written issue three,  I decided to go back and redo the whole outline so that we could see where the plane was landing.  And then,  so we, so I did that and now like every  issue that I write  is more in line with like the thing, because the thing is, that like,

45:11
To me, what's fun about a script is learning.  Is that like your character wants to do this. Like I didn't think about Michael doing this, but now  that makes sense for him. So like, let's do that. And it's different than what I thought of before. So yeah, it's all like right now I am currently writing issue five.  And  because the plotting is so tight, I've written scenes for issue six.

45:39
But yeah, 100%, like by the time it comes out, I will have finished all the writing and we'll go back and like, you know, like today I was doing a lettering pass on issue two.  Um, and we realized, oh, we tweak something in issue three. So maybe we should go back and tweak that in two and, know, make it all come together. So,  uh, yeah, it's been great to have like the leeway to do that. I don't know if I was doing a weekly book, um, which honestly, like at this point in my career, I don't want to do a weekly book.

46:08
because it's a lot of work.  Whereas like doing a mini series,  I can find time in my schedule to like break out and just do that.  By the time I start the writer's room for my show,  I will be working on issue six.  And then, you know, it's small stuff while I'm working on the show. Then when the show is over, hopefully I'll be doing another mini series,  you know, so I can just drop them in these little places.

46:37
Well, you brought up doing a lettering pass. And I want to talk about the artistic team that you've got with you. And I want to hear specifically what each person brings. So you've got on art duties Val DeLandro, who's a successful comic writer or artist himself. He's drawn for DC Comics on Black Manta, as well as Image Comics Bitch Planet. And then you've got colorist Marissa Luis. Yep. And letterer Lucas Gattoni. Gattoni? I hope I'm saying that right.

47:05
I guess starting with Val and working to Lucas, what does each person bring to the project? Sure. And we also have  Edwin Gell-Mann,  who  is doing the art in the present day story.  And so what  Edwin does, I'll start with him because it's  kind of  chronological order, so to speak. What Edwin does is he really grounds the book in the current DC universe.  And so like...

47:33
He's got a spread  of,  which I will actually send you now  that you can see, but not post.  The perks of being a comic podcast host and friends with Al. Yeah, the perks of being friends with Al.  He's got like,  spreads  of the story that like literally,  if you look at it, you will see like it is  current day DC comics.

48:01
this is like what's going on in the world now. So he brings that feeling of like right now to the world. Whereas like Val has this amazing ability. Go ahead, ahead, what were you about to say? Really quick, this is an interior page you sent me? Yes, this is an interior page. This is insane. Like this is like some, just off the cover, it's like some Dennis Cohen meets like Dan Mora. You know, the colors look amazing.

48:31
Wow, this is, damn, this is really good. This is like awesome. I thought this was like just a cover or something. That's issue one, page one. Okay. This is issue two,  or issue one, pages two and three. And I know listeners, you're like, we can't see anything. Well, look, you're just gonna have to get the book. You're just gonna Let me just have a moment, all right? Can I have something from you one day? Oh, and this is Val's artwork that you just sent me. No, no, no, this is Edward. Oh, wow. This dude is hella talented. Yeah, no, he's sick. He's sick.

49:00
He gives us that.  And then, you know,  what we get from Val, Val's style is just like, it's like, I don't even know how to explain it. It's it's hardcore  centered in, like he  can do emotion really well.  I mean, really well. I'll send you a page of,  this may be  my  favorite page  in the whole damn book.

49:31
But the emotion that he brings out in the characters is just,  it's just amazing. He does that emotion really well. He does  the feeling of like,  while the book looks  modern and current, it still looks like we're looking back a little bit, you know? Yeah, I really like  this dichotomy between these styles. To your point, Ed's artwork falls very much in line with like DC's current house style.

49:58
you know, a little reminiscent of like, you know, how Dan Mora is kind of drawing the characters. Right. And then yeah, you're right. Vowels is like a nice stark contrast where like these heavy inks and things like lends to that emotion. Yep.  And what I love about it is like seeing them both together, like they all kind of  it just flows really well.  Marissa, Marissa is like an old friend of mine and I, have not worked together before, but I just love her colors. I mean, she's great.  And  Andrea,

50:28
reached out to her and got her on the  on the project. And she's  she's just killing it. She has there's a panel. My my  maybe my second favorite page that is an episode two or issue two.  And the way she did it, her coloring is just like just it's the star of the page.  And then the letter like he just like  he's so good at like just bringing it all together because like as you're getting these pages in.

50:55
You're like, for me, I'm just like, oh my God. Like that's when I just see the inks, I'm like, oh my God, that's amazing. Then Marissa does, whoa, oh my God. And then like the letterer brings it in and like, that's what makes it all sink because he takes the words and zaps it in. Really quick. I'm noticing on one of the preview pages that you sent that it looks like the T spheres are also part of the narration or the caption box. That's brilliant.

51:20
Yes. I'm getting my Tearsphere action. Hell yeah. Yes. He does. It's been a pleasure to work with all of these people. The editors have been great. Like I said, Andrea and I are old friends and Marquise is just super smart and knowledgeable about DC. So like when I have a question about certain things, like he helps me figure it out. I could not have had a better team on this book. You know what else you couldn't have had better?

51:49
is the variant covers, which I think is also a bragging right on its own. So the A cover is done by Val DeLandro. Speaking about a guy, Tom King, you got Mitch Gerard doing a variant cover. doing the B cover. So the same guy that drew all of the awesome Mr. Terrific scenes  in  the  Strange Adventures comic is doing a variant cover for you. That's got to feel good. Like the artist that in the, you the artist.

52:16
Yes, we heard of the writer that inspired you to do Mr. Terrific is doing your variant cover. Come on. Yeah,  it's ridiculous.  When they showed him to me, I was just like,  oh, what is my life?  And I guess on that same train of thought, I mean, you've got Doc Shaner, who is, you know, to me, like a modern day, you know, Darwin cook level  doing the C cover, who also contributed heavily to  the Mr. Terrific story. think he did all of the like the parts of

52:44
Strange Adventures that were set in the past and Mr. R.G. Call the Present. So I don't know, a lot of similarities between that series and your series being a two-part story. And then last but not least, if we're talking like Black Excellence here, you got Dennis Cohen contributing a  one the incentive covers, but Dennis Cohen, mean.

53:05
Come on, comic legend, Dennis. Come Legend, legend.  I have a picture on my phone of me and him together because  I  think I met him in 2018 or whatever. He doesn't remember me at all, but I'm just like,  when they showed me that, was like,  you got to be kidding me. You have got to be kidding me. This is a nerd's dream. I could not think of a better trio of variants for you. That's awesome. All right, Al, I want to make a hard turn to another question I have.

53:35
And it's actually a question that comes from someone else. Over the weekend, I was at Collective Con and I had a chance to run into Jeff Fremid,  who's a  friend of the show. He's a listener. He's also a patron of the show. So, you know, I'm gonna give him  a spotlight  and a shout out. But he's also a huge fan of what you do with Reveal as well as State of the Reunion. And he's very familiar with your  radio career. He wants to know,  know Monarch season two just wrapped filming last month. Can you tell us anything about it? And is there a season three plan? Also.

54:04
After Mr. Terrific, any other comic writing projects in the work?  Okay, so, On Monarch,  I don't know if there's a season three planned. I don't know.  And I can't  tell you much about season two  because  men with black suits and dark glasses would be knocking on my door.

54:29
I think it's going to be good.  I, I, would say that like the things that you loved about season one will be back.  Um,  uh, and yeah, Kurt Russell is front and center in it.  Um, it's going to be, can you share what episodes we should be on the lookout that you maybe specifically wrote or had a hand in? Yeah. And season one, I wrote episode eight and in season two, I think. what happens is, is like, we work on it together. You write your episode, uh, and then.

54:59
the room breaks and they go out and make it.  so stories get moved around. And so I think that my story ended up being broken up into  episode  three, two or three, or episode three of season two and episode four of season two. I think that's where it ended up.  So yeah, I'm excited to see it too because I've been, you know, because I worked on it  and I'm friends with, you know, all the people that are still out shooting it or whatever.

55:29
I get pictures and stuff and I see like some stuff that we worked on and like, oh my God, that looks great.  Um, but you know, I have not been in the mix on that. And like, since I think  my time on Monarch ended in June.  Um,  so yeah, like, don't know.  All I know is like the couple of pictures. I know that they shot in Australia, they shot in Thailand.  Um, and then I think we, we definitely went back to Tokyo.  Um,  they're all over.

55:57
I heard you say they shot in Australia and I'm like, well, damn, they didn't even need to pay for CGI. They could just shoot and outback and any lizard they find is probably the size of Godzilla in Australia.  Exactly.  And then I want to get to a second question, but I kind of want to alter it. I want to add to it too. He wants to know after Mr. Terrific, do have any other comic book projects lined up? And what I want to also hear is, let's say they gave you like the key city kingdom, right? Whether it be DC and also include Marvel. If you could write any other characters.

56:26
Who else would you be writing? mean, we've already stated that you got a chance to write Nightwing, who's one of your favorites in the Bat family in 2017. Now you're getting to write Mr. Terrific. I guess who else is a white buffalo for you in terms of characters? Yeah, I mean, you know, because I've been working on  Mr. Terrific for a while now, I have what I think is a really great idea for Mr. Terrific.  And I know that a lot of people,  a lot of creators,

56:55
don't like creating new characters for DC or Marvel because you, you know, those characters can go off and make millions of dollars and you don't get anything for it. My thing is like, look, I just like playing in the sandbox and it's okay. So I got a new idea for a bad guy that I think would be so awesome to create for DC. So yeah, I would love to do another mini series with Mr. Terrific. I think in that mini series, the way it is in my head right now, it would start off with this really obscure group from DC called

57:25
the guild of detection,  which is  you know,  um,  Martian man hunter or hawker or hawk man. Uh, the question, uh, the, the chimp that's the,  detective chimp. Yeah. Yeah.  So like my idea would be,  uh, that they discover something and,  and they come to the smartest man in the world to figure it out.  And,  uh, and Mr. Terrific kind of takes over the case.

57:54
So yeah, I really want to do that. think if I had my, so I have not been keeping up with Marvel.  So I'm not sure like where the stories are with them right now.  If  I could have my way, I would love,  love,  love to restart the new warriors for Marvel.  I've always been a huge fan of Night Thrasher.

58:21
And I would want to bring as much as the original lineup back as possible  because that original lineup that was written by Fabian Nescesa,  I think that's how you pronounce his name. I love that book. I love that book so much.  So I would love to do that for DC. would,  I'm forever and always going to be a Titans fan.  I would love to do some stuff with that.

58:48
I have an idea for a flash story that I think I'm going to pitch. Because I dig the flash, but this story is so, yeah. I mean, I think that the thing is that artists, no matter what your art is, it's important for you to reflect the times that you live in. And I have a story.

59:12
that reflects the times that we live in that is a flash story. So I really want to do that. I think that that's going to be the thing that I pitch next. So yeah, like a couple of little things. I have this wild idea. I don't know where the story goes. I'm just going to say it out loud that someone else is going to steal it. But we could just say that I said it here first. Do you remember? Right. Exactly. Do you remember the John Wick movie? I think it was two, maybe it was three.

59:41
that Holly Berry was in and she had the dogs with her or whatever? Yeah, I think that was number two because they had to go to  Morocco or she owned a club in Morocco or some different. Yeah, I remember that. I want to do a Black Panther story where he is with a pride of Black Panthers, actual Black Panthers,  and they are fighting together. Like he is using them the way Holly Berry used those dogs. I thought of it the other day. I don't know what the story is, but I think like, oh my God, that would be so bad ass. That'd be so bad ass.

01:00:11
Cause then you think about it, we've never seen the Black Panther fighting with the pride of Black Panthers. That would be dope. And then I guess like the last protagonist or antagonist could be M'Baku and now he's got to go against literal white gorillas. Exactly. There's so much you can do, man. There's so much you can do. Yes. That's dope. Well, like if there's anyone that could make that happen, Al,  you managed to,  I mean, like I said, you're multi-talented and you've got your hand in a little bit of everything.  I have a feeling that Mr. Trophy Gear One is going to be success.

01:00:41
Just judging from the amazing art you've shared, the incredible premise that you're talking about, the team you've got behind you,  I foresee that this won't be the last comic book thing that we get from you. Thank you. And with that being said, ladies and gents, this is the Short Box Podcast. We just finished talking to Al Letson about his upcoming series, Mr. Terrific Year One. We talked a little about his career, his life, and art,  and this probably won't be the last time you hear from Al. But please be sure to check out his new project, Mr. Terrific Year One, Issue One.

01:01:09
hits comic shops on Wednesday, May 28th. I said it in the intro. I'll say it again. That's the day after my birthday. If you've been pondering what to get me, you know, I'm a hard person to shop for. I'll make it easy. Just go pick up Mr. Triffic year one at your local comic shops. I'll have links to the  to the book. You read the solicitation for yourself. See the team as well. And I'll also include links to Al Lettson's social media. So please give him a follow.  Al, brother, any parting words or shameless plug before we sign off?

01:01:38
Shameless plug Gotham city  in Jacksonville  and Cape and Cal in Oakland, California. The two,  two of the best comic shops ever  and batter with the amazing voice. One of the best hosts ever. Those are my shameless plugs. Those are shameless plugs. I can get behind. Thank you so much, Al. Like I said, I would like to have you back.  Uh, maybe whenever issue six comes out and we've got the whole story, we can talk some more about Mr. Turfig, right?

01:02:07
Damn straight, let's do it.

01:02:11
There you have it short box nation. That's the end of the show. Thank you for hanging out. Thanks for being here.  And a special shout out if you've made it this far. If you enjoyed this episode and you have some thoughts or comments that you want to share with us, write us at theshortboxjaxx at gmail.com. And if you really liked this episode,  help us spread the word, share this episode with a friend or someone you know that loves comics as much as we do. And don't forget to leave us a five star rating and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify.

01:02:39
or wherever you get your podcasts. It takes two minutes tops and it would mean the world to us. So leave us a review. Now, if you want more content like bonus episodes or perks like early access and commercial free episodes, and in some cases, free comic books,  consider joining our Patreon community at patreon.com slash the short box. It's an easy and very affordable way to support the show and get rewarded for being a fan. Once again, sign up at patreon.com slash the short box.

01:03:05
Speaking of our Patreon community, want to give a big shout out to our current members, including Adam Chittani,  RcGamut, BJKicks, Blake Simone,  Blythe Milligan,  Bo Evers,  Brian Brumleaf, Chad Lannenberger, Chris Hacker, David Morales,  Greg Lichtig,  Hershel, Mack Jacobson,  Issue number three, Brad,  Jay Sinner,  Jeff Fremid, Jerome Cabanatan, Jose Sepulveda,  Justin McCoy, Corey Torgeson, Matt Godwin, Amanda Marin,

01:03:35
Melissa Burton, Nick Wagner, Ryan Isaacson, Steven Gamet, T-Mix, The Wait For It Podcast, Tony A. Uppie,  Trey Namo,  Walter Gant, and last but not least, Warren Evans. Big shout outs to the patrons. And with that being said, that's it. That's what I got for you this time. Thanks for listening. Tune in next week for another episode. And most importantly, take care of yourselves, read a good comic, and continue to make mine and yours short box. I'll catch you soon. Peace.