Episode 225: How to Avoid Mistakes Young Leaders Make in Ministry with Sarah Carroll

Hannah Augustine and Sarah Carroll share the hard-won lessons they wish they'd known when they started leading, as well as some of the biggest mistakes young leaders make in ministry. If you're a young leader, a kids pastor, or you're mentoring emerging leaders, this conversation will help you navigate the unique challenges of ministry leadership at any age and set you up for sustainable impact.

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Transcript

Introduction
Hannah Augustine (00:00)

If you've ever felt too young to lead, you're not alone. The reality is that the tides are shifting—more and more young leaders are rising to the surface. Even as this becomes the norm, young leaders, especially those in the church, face unique challenges. You might not even know what those challenges are, so we're going to talk about that today. And if you want to hear about our greatest KidMin fails, stay tuned until the end. It's going to be epic.

I'm Hannah Augustine, and I'd like to think I'm still a young leader—just not as young as I used to be. But the good news is that over the years, I've gained more perspective on what it means to lead at any age. Today, Sarah Carroll and I will share some hard-won lessons and practical truths that we wish we'd known when we first started leading.

Kidmin Roadmap
Before we dive in, what if your kids' ministry had a clear, intentional path for lifelong discipleship? Kidmin Roadmap is a free, comprehensive strategy designed to help you disciple kids through biblically rich teaching, relational environments, parent partnership, and leader development. It's flexible and built for real churches with volunteer-led ministries, giving you a roadmap you can implement right away. Visit KidminRoadmap.com to get started today. As I always say, if it's free, it's for me. So it's worth checking out.

Hannah Augustine (01:38)
Sarah, welcome back to the podcast! We actually had you on pretty recently, and your episode was super popular. I'm excited to have you back with us.

You were talking last time about how you came to KidzMatter. Why don't you kick us off and give us kind of a highlight reel of your journey to where you are now?

Sarah's Leadership Journey
Sarah Carroll (01:51)

Yeah, I'm loving the fact that I can still be on a podcast about young leaders, because I definitely feel like I'm on the older end of what a young leader would be. I'm in my mid-thirties, believe it or not.

Hannah Augustine (02:10)

Exactly—no one would know.

Sarah Carroll (02:12)

But yeah, leadership. I feel like I started in middle school, I would say, because my first leadership role was being a captain on a sports team. Leadership can start so young—even in elementary stages of developing leadership skills.

As I grew and developed in the church world, I became one of the youngest adult leaders on the youth team. Then I was a camp counselor when I was seventeen. So again, there were a lot of achievements I made where I was the youngest of the group. I was a worship leader in those really early years, and then it just kind of continued to grow in both my professional and church life.

I've essentially been a leader in some capacity, whether in professional or ministry settings, ever since. There are people—maybe you're one of them—who, even if you don't want to be a leader, you're still looked at as a leader. That's just the reality of your life. Even if you try to run from it, leadership still finds you. And here I am, leading people or leading things.

Hannah Augustine (03:44)

It's like you said—sometimes you can't run away from it. There's something about it: some of us are natural leaders. It's just in us. Sometimes it's thrust upon us, right? Maybe you were the oldest sibling and had to help carry things for your family. Maybe you were the only one who volunteered to do something wherever you are. I think of Sadie, who listens to our podcast—shout out to Sadie—but she's in KidMin Academy and started leading the children's ministry at her church at sixteen or seventeen because it was a need. She stepped into it, and I think many of us could identify with that.

But my old senior pastor at Christ Fellowship in South Florida used to say, "You don't know what you don't know, and what you don't know can hurt you." And I think when I look back over my life and the seasons I experienced as a young leader, there are things that hurt me because I didn't know them. That's kind of the point of this episode—to help identify areas where you, as a young leader, or those of you who are leading young leaders, can help them understand early on.

Learning from Others' Mistakes
Hannah Augustine (04:50)

I've always been a big fan of not wanting to learn the hard things myself. I want to learn them from other people. Let me read the book, listen to the podcast, or have a mentor, because I'd much rather learn from their mistakes than make my own. Similar to you, I started leading in middle school. Our youth group had a leadership program, so we went on leadership retreats and helped volunteer. I started serving in the children's ministry from about fifteen on, leading in that area.

When we love Jesus, we need to be willing to step up and lead. I don't just mean leading a team—some of you listening might think, "Well, I don't oversee the children's ministry." But you're still a leader. Your actions, your emotions, your attitudes are setting the pace for the ministry. When you come in with a great attitude, it helps affect the other people on your team. When you come in grumbling, complaining, or having what we call sideways conversations with someone on your team, none of that helps the culture.

Sarah Carroll (05:38)

One hundred percent.

Hannah Augustine (05:45)

This concept applies whether you're a young leader or throughout most of our lives: you're sandwiched between people you're leading, people who are your peers, and people you're leading up to. All of those relationships require leadership.

I've come from multiple church roles to now being here at KidzMatter. What would you say, Sarah, is the greatest challenge that young leaders face—specifically in the church? Corporate challenges are different; the church is unique with its own unique slant.

The Greatest Challenge: Identity and Loneliness
Sarah Carroll (06:22)

When you start leading really young, a lot of your identity becomes attached to leading. If you're in a season of not being able to lead—and there are seasons of life when that happens for whatever reason—or if you're not leading up to the standard you've set for yourself, it can get really difficult because you've connected that role to your identity.

For young leaders, loneliness has always been a challenge, but I have a special softness in my heart for young leaders today because of our culture. They often feel like the only one in their friend group or the only one their age they can relate to—someone with really high responsibility or maturity beyond their years. They don't know how to relate to people in their age bracket.

Hannah Augustine (07:23)

That's so accurate. I remember when I was first leading a campus, I had four or five staff members under me who were all significantly older, and I was still finishing up my college degree. At this campus, there were a couple of other young adult leaders who would go to lunch together all the time, and I didn't have time. I was trying to keep my head above water, lead my team, navigate conflict—just so much. It felt like no one understood the weight I was carrying. I felt left out. I felt lonely.

Hannah Augustine (07:58)

So you're absolutely right about loneliness. And then there's the issue of biting off more than you can chew. We're wrestling with this in a culture obsessed with ambition, getting ahead, being the best, doing the best, and hustle culture. I'm trying to come back to what Scripture says. I can't remember the exact verse, but it's about living a gentle and quiet life. The verse says something like, "Make it your ambition to live a gentle and quiet life and work with your hands." And I think there's something about recognizing that it's okay if I'm not at the top of the ladder, not at the front of the room, or wherever else we think success looks like.

Hannah Augustine (08:45)

When you can get to that place—and I think for those of us who are strong leaders, you'll have to come to that place over and over again—you have to humble yourself. And I think that's probably the other big danger for young leaders: an inflated ego, pride, and this sense of hubris like nothing can stop you. We know this, right?

Hannah Augustine (09:07)

So pausing and saying, "Holy Spirit, keep me humble so I don't have to be humbled. Keep me on my knees so I can lead from a place of humility, knowing that it's the Lord and the Holy Spirit in me—not anything I've done. He's placed me in this position, and He can take it away just as quickly as He gave it to me." Living open-handed and not clinging to that role as if it defines who you are.

Sarah Carroll (09:39)

Yeah, absolutely. Something a mentor told me that continues to stick with me, especially as we see hustle culture and people who are super young becoming really successful overnight because they posted a TikTok—it's kind of crazy. I'd heard it before, but this time it actually landed: "Try to be the stupidest person in the room."

Sarah Carroll (10:22)

In the sense that you're always making sure you're around people far ahead of you on the journey so you're constantly learning. It also keeps you humble. We need to constantly be looking for people further ahead in their journey—people you admire and who you think, "I have a lot to learn in that area." Because I think it keeps you humble. As a leader, there's this God-given desire to grow and do better. But like you said, that can hurt our ego or lead to pride if we're not intentional about being okay with being the stupidest person in the room. You know, "Yeah, I don't know anything you guys are talking about. I'm here to learn, sit, and listen. I can't give much to this conversation because I'm learning."

When I actually heard that and started trying to apply it, not only did I start growing in my own leadership, but I also realized maybe I'm not all that and a bag of chips.

Sarah Carroll (11:30)

When you're given so much responsibility and people speak life over you at thirteen years old, it's really hard not to fall into that trap. No fault to you if you're listening and thinking, "Snap, that's me." You're in good company.

Hannah Augustine (11:50)

And that comes back to staying teachable and being in a posture of receiving feedback. That's hard. We're people of excellence, and if you're pursuing leadership or ministry, you have a heart for excellence. You want to do things well because you're doing it for the Lord, for the congregation, the kids, the families. So when someone corrects you, it's hard—obviously even harder when that correction isn't done with love.

Hannah Augustine (12:17)

But even when it's done with love, it can be difficult to receive. You have to check yourself and be able to say, "Okay, Lord, I need to be humbled." I had a conversation with someone last week, and they made a comment that stung and stuck with me for a couple of days. You know, that kind where you're falling asleep at night thinking, "I'm going to call them back and tell them they were out of line and shouldn't have said that."

But I felt like the Holy Spirit was saying, "No, they were right. It hurt, but not because it was hurtful—it hurt because it touched your pride. You need to receive what they said because it came from someone who cares, and you need to receive it because it's something I'm trying to teach you."

Sarah Carroll (12:50)

Hmm. That's a good distinction.

Hannah Augustine (13:07)

So those of you listening, you need someone in your life who's going to speak hard truths to you.

The Cost of Leadership
Hannah Augustine (13:14)

I think there's not enough emphasis on this: when you're leading, you're taking the brunt of the hard things. The buck stops with you. The sun rises and sets on you.

But here's the thing: when I'm leading, I'm actually the greatest servant in the room. I shouldn't be the one taking all the perks. I shouldn't be the one taking all the credit. I should be deflecting that back to my team and giving them praise, letting them take credit, because my goal is to help them rise up and be all that God called them to be. So even breaking the illusion that suddenly, if I'm at the top of the food chain, it's about me—no. If you're doing it right, it's actually very much not about you when you find yourself at the top.

Sarah Carroll (13:54)

Right. And if you get defensive about feedback or if your walls immediately go up—I love what you said, Hannah. Of course your natural reaction is to defend yourself. But the fact that you allowed yourself to come down from that and say, "Holy Spirit, what does this mean for my life? Is this something I need pruning in or growth in?"—that's the sign of maturity. There's beauty in recognizing when it's time to submit. I think that's when we grow the most, not just in leadership but in our relationship with the Lord. We become more intimate with Him and more sensitive to His Holy Spirit. And I don't know about you, but I don't want to go anywhere the Holy Spirit isn't going.

Hannah Augustine (14:46)

Amen.

Sarah Carroll (14:52)

Because there are times you think, "This is the best idea in the world. We're going in this direction." And you kind of forget to maybe ask what the Holy Spirit thinks because your ambition gets the best of you.

Hannah Augustine (15:05)

Yes. So true. And you're right—submitting is just part of life because ultimately, we're submitting to the Lord, and we're practicing that submission with other people. And it can be hard.

Hannah Augustine (15:17)

And sometimes if you're someone who is discerning and the Lord gives you vision—you can see where this could go—it's very easy to feel frustrated with your leadership or your boss. When I was first leading at the church in Florida, I felt frustrated because I thought, "Well, this needs to change or this needs to grow." I felt like the Holy Spirit led me to understand: "Hannah, if I have called you and placed you at this church, ultimately the buck stops with those leaders. You cannot force their hand, and you cannot make happen what you want to happen. But you need to trust Me with the timing. I will speak to them, and it may take longer than you'd want. It may look different than you'd want. But it will happen."

I can tell you that over my years there, until I felt the sense of release that it was time to go, every time I felt frustrated and thought, "This needs to happen at our church"—within six months to a year, it did happen.

Alignment and Submission

Hannah Augustine (16:13)

We had certain policies we agreed to as a staff—that we weren't going to engage in certain behaviors because we wanted to be above reproach. One of our pastors, Kevin, had us all re-sign the agreement we'd signed when joining the team. He said, "If you want to be on the Yankees team, you wear a certain jersey, come to practice, get the haircut. And if you don't want the haircut, you leave the Yankees." He said, "If you're not willing to align with what we're asking you to do, then get off the team."

As a young leader, you have to ask yourself: Am I in alignment with my leadership? That looks a couple of different ways. Do I align with their theology? Do I align with what they're doing and where they're going? If you don't, you're hindering that ministry.

And if you're not willing to submit to that person, you will be a stumbling block for other staff members, for the congregation, and for that leader. So don't put yourself in that position. Choose to submit. And know that when it's hard, yes, it is hard.

Sarah Carroll (17:17)

Part of discerning this is asking: Is the topic I'm so passionate about or the drive I'm feeling or even this critique—is it coming from a spirit of criticism, or is it coming from the Holy Spirit? I think one way to help yourself wrestle with this more healthily is knowing: Is this just me wanting things done my way? Or is this just a different way of doing it? Is the different way okay? Is it unbiblical? Or is it just different, and I need to be okay with different types of leadership, structure, and priorities that might go against mine?

If the Lord has me here, I need to ask, "Lord, do you want me to learn from this and grow, or am I supposed to be a champion for something more?" Be sensitive to what your role is, and don't just assume, "Well, I know what's right." That pride and ego is where young leaders can really get stuck.

If you want to continue to grow—and not just grow, but last and sustain your ministry for years and years—you have to distinguish which fights matter. Otherwise, that constant fighting is going to wear you out.

And that's where you do see a lot of young leaders walk away from leadership. It's because they're fighting the wrong things. It's all in good faith and from a good place. It might not even mean they're wrong. It just might mean you have differences and you're not willing to learn those differences in this season. That can be really difficult to figure out: Is this a season where I'm supposed to learn a different approach, respect a different approach? Or is this just not working? What is this season? And being humble enough to respond to the Holy Spirit in that.

Hannah Augustine (19:46)

Because ultimately, we can only deal with ourselves, and we're only responsible for us. I learned years ago: if the same thing keeps happening in every new role, I'm the common denominator. So step back and do some soul searching. Ask, "Is this me?"

Sarah Carroll (19:59)

Mm, that's good.

Hannah Augustine (20:13)

It may not be all you. I'm not saying it's all you, because everybody contributes, right? It takes two to tango. But recognize if the same thing is happening, there may be something about you that you need to deal with and get to the root of—so you're not hindering other people.

Timing and Comparison
Hannah Augustine (20:40)

And even some of these things, Sarah, it may be a timing issue. The Lord may be putting dreams and desires on your heart that are for down the road. I remember talking with my cousins about this years ago: how we can feel so behind sometimes because we look at big names in church—Craig Groeschel, Christine Caine, Lisa Harper, or whoever you want to name. Sadie Robertson.

Sarah Carroll (20:52)

Right. Sadie Robertson is young, and you're like, "What?" Right?

Hannah Augustine (21:09)

And let's talk about it and recognize that not all of us can be on Dancing with the Stars. The Lord knows this. Step back and recognize the burdens a Sadie Robertson is carrying—she was made for that, and the Lord is giving her grace for that. Maybe that same grace wouldn't be given to you. You have to know that the Lord is going to lead you in the right timing.

When we look at someone like Craig Groeschel and think, "I could never attain that"—Craig Groeschel has had forty years to grow. If he was sitting here, he'd tell you that in his twenties, he faced some of these same things. So give yourself grace for the pace. Know that some of the dreams and desires God has put on your heart may have a really long runway. It may feel like, "Well, I haven't written the book. I haven't gotten the degree. I haven't gotten the job or launched the church or whatever it is." Slow your roll.

Trust that the Lord who gave you those desires will open those doors. Usually there are a series of steps we have to walk through first. So don't rush the process. Don't think that because you're in one seat now, that other seat won't ever come. When you're faithful, God will open those doors. Keep your eyes open.

I remember I always thought, "I want to travel and speak. I love to preach and speak. I want conferences." Then we hosted a conference at our church in Florida, and I got to lead a breakout session. I was co-leading with a friend, and it didn't dawn on me until way later: I spoke at a conference. Wow!

Sarah Carroll (22:23)

Yeah. There you go.

Hannah Augustine (22:41)

I almost didn't notice it because it wasn't what I'd been picturing. So slow yourself down enough to notice where the Lord is fulfilling dreams and desires, even when it's not exactly what you thought it would look like on the cereal box or the magazine cover. It may not feel the same, but the Lord does fulfill those desires. Or He'll change those desires, shift them, and they'll look different. And that's okay, too.

Sarah Carroll (22:51)

Yes, that's so good.

Sarah Carroll (23:06)

I think that's where the comparison game can really mess you up. Something that's helped me is realizing—there's actually a newer song that put words to what I was feeling: "You don't know the cost of the oil." You don't know what it costs for them to get there. You don't know the things they have to deal with in their personal life. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. It's greener where you water it.

So are you so focused on somebody else's lawn that you're neglecting your own? Are you willing to go through the things that are going to cost you to get to where they are and receive those blessings?

I think those are all things you have to consider. You have to humble yourself and think, "You know what? I don't know the cost. My life is my life. Their life is their life." Respect and love where they're at. Honor and even celebrate where they're at, even if it's something you might want. Trust that God knows your story, and you're on a journey with Him. Your only concern should be, "God, what do you want from me? Where do you want me to lead? What are my strengths? Am I honoring you today with what is in my hand and trusting the rest?"

There have been so many times I've quietly mentioned in my mind—not even as a full-blown prayer—like, "Man, that'd be so cool if I could do that someday, or that'd be so cool if I had an opportunity to do that." Not thinking much of it, it wasn't a spiritual moment. But the fact that the Lord heard me and years later I'm doing some of those things—in my heart, I thought one day that'd be really cool. When you focus on what's right in front of you and honor the Lord with what's in your hand today, He does not neglect those tiny moments of, "Man, that'd be cool if one day I could do something like that."

He hears you, He sees you. And I think if we try to force His hand, we're going to get into pitfalls later. I have a feeling a lot of them came from when we tried to force His hand.

Hannah Augustine (25:34)

Yes. So true. I think of the parable of Jesus about the dinner banquet: "Don't seat yourself at the highest place. Go to the lowest place, and let someone call you up." First Peter 5 says, "God gives grace to the humble," and trust that He will lift you up in due time. He will. He's going to lead you where you need to go. I'd encourage you: don't rush the journey. If I could go back—obviously the Lord wrote my story, and I don't have regrets because I truly believe the Lord has refined and restored even my mistakes—I wish I had given myself more grace to just be a person.

Sarah Carroll (25:48)

Mmm, that's so good.

Hannah Augustine (26:10)

So if you're listening: be a person. Make room if you're single to date, to get to know other people, to have friends. If you're a mom, dad, or spouse, make room for that. Because ultimately, when we get to heaven, what will matter most? The most important ministry we could ever have is that immediate circle of our family. So don't lose that. Don't lose your soul in the pursuit of leadership, goals, and achievement.

Sarah Carroll (27:00)

Yes, that's so good.

Hannah Augustine (27:06)

Let the Lord determine your pace. Don't wear yourself out trying to get somewhere, because ultimately, the Lord is going to get you there. Now I'm not saying slack off. As leaders, that's not who you are. What I'm saying is let the Holy Spirit determine your pace. When you do that, He's going to take you where you need to go, and you're going to get there when you need to get there. It may be later than you think, earlier than you think, surprising you, or exactly as you expected. But don't put God in a box of how and when He needs to do something, because we lose when we do that.

Sarah Carroll (27:35)

Yeah. One hundred percent. That's so good, Hannah. I think that's a maturity thing that comes down the road—you're like, "Actually, I embraced the journey." But if I had to pick one thing I would have done differently, I would have embraced failing sooner. I would have been okay with, "I failed, and that's okay." There's this entrepreneurial mentality of "fail faster and fail sooner."

Hannah Augustine (27:53)

Yes. So good.

Sarah Carroll (28:20)

If I would have learned that lesson, been okay with it, and even confident in it—like, "This is part of the journey, it is okay"—I think I would have given myself a lot more grace and others a lot more grace as well. Recognizing that others, like you said about leadership, are about the people you're with and the journey they're on, even more than your own journey. Being able to recognize that I need to give them opportunities to fail—or succeed. Who knows? But you gotta give them a chance. I wish I would have learned that sooner.

Hannah Augustine (28:53)

That's so good.

Encouragement and Resources
Hannah Augustine (28:53)

If you're listening and just getting started in leadership, we hope this has encouraged you. There's so much more we could say. If you want to connect further with either of us, you can send us an email—I'll put our contact info in the show notes. We'd be happy to jump on a call.

We have resources like KidzMatter PRO, KidMin Academy, this podcast, our blogs, and our Facebook group—all because we want to equip you wherever you are in your journey. If you're not a young leader anymore, we hope this was encouraging too. Share this with the young leaders in your ministry. Hopefully this will help you as you lead them and give them some tips and tricks for how they can move forward.

But I did promise we would share our greatest KidMin fails. Sarah, what's the greatest KidMin or leadership fail you'd like to share?

Sarah's Greatest Fail
Sarah Carroll (29:41)

Oh, so many. The one that I think of often—and I might regret is the wrong word, but—is that I tried to move a ship faster than it should have been moved. I cared way more about moving the ship that I neglected the people on the ship because I was so focused on where the ship needed to go.

As young leaders, it's so easy to do that. With this specific situation, the people I was leading were already hurting, and me trying to move that ship—in all good faith, and things the Lord was asking me to do—but I was speeding up the process and not being willing to sit with His people who were hurting. If I were to do it all over again, I would sit with those people a lot more. I would be okay with just letting God's time be God's time and not have it happen overnight.

I'm still learning this, and I feel like our timeline is always going to be faster than the Lord's. So I've gotten better at slowing down, but I probably could slow down even more. It's like, "Lord, this is where we have to be co-laborers. My way always feels a little bit faster than what You want from me that day." Just being okay with that and being sensitive to: Do I need to push a little bit more now, or do I need to slow back down a little bit? "God, what do you want from me today?" That's a requirement for us as leaders—to be sensitive to that.

Hannah Augustine (31:44)

That's so good.

Hannah's Greatest Fail
I'm going to wrap us up with a funny story. I was pretty new in Florida and overseeing our elementary area at the main campus. We had five services at the time—two on Saturday, three on Sunday morning—with upwards of three hundred kids over those five services in my first- through third-grade class.

It's the 10 a.m. service, right at the end, and the power goes out. I learned I'm not great in a crisis because I completely froze. We had kids in the room during pickup time, with parents coming and going. It was a safety nightmare. Thank the Lord my assistant Caleb jumped into action and took care of everything. Note to self: not good in a crisis.

Sarah Carroll (32:16)

No!

Hannah Augustine (32:40)

We waited for the power to get back on—the generator kicked in. It was like sixty seconds with the lights off. The generator came on, and I found out later that I think a squirrel had chewed through the power line.

Sarah Carroll (32:40)

No, no.

Hannah Augustine (33:09)

We were using a video-based curriculum, and that day's story was a parable about two girls who see a sign in a gas station. It wasn't my favorite lesson. So I got up there and started stalling. Obviously, we weren't doing live worship. We're trying to figure this out. I'm on a megaphone screaming, trying to keep the room under control. We found out later we had ninety-seven kids in the room. So I'm screaming over this megaphone playing a game, and I look to Caleb like, "And now the Bible story video." And he's like—

Sarah Carroll (33:10)

No.

Hannah Augustine (33:16)

I thought, "I can't tell this story because it's a made-up drama." So I pulled it out of my pocket—like we do. "We're going to tell the story of Daniel." Except the problem is I love context, so I accidentally went too far back. I pulled up Daniel as part of the illustration, but I ended up telling Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. So Daniel's just standing there with nothing to do.

My other assistant Lindsey is running out giving them all props. They've got like a Thor's hammer, a broom—like, what's going on? I'm telling the story, and I told the audience, "You're the Babylonians. And then we've got the Israelites up here." That was my fatal flaw.

I said, "When the music plays, the Babylonians bow down."

Well, who's the Babylonians? The children. And my assistant had built this fake idol on the platform. I play the music, and you can imagine—I just told all the kids to bow down to this idol made out of pool noodles and sand buckets.

Sarah Carroll (34:27)

That's so funny.

Hannah Augustine (34:27)

I looked in the back, and our senior pastor's son was standing in the back of the room.

Awesome. So I did not get fired.

Sarah Carroll (34:28)

That's amazing. I love it.

Hannah Augustine (34:46)

So the moral of the story: always have a lesson ready, especially if you're using any sort of technology, because you never know. Don't be me. Don't have the children bow down to idols, because that's usually frowned upon. It's not the example we're trying to set.

Hannah Augustine (35:12)

Listeners, thank you. We're so grateful you joined us. We want to encourage you to check out First Timothy 4:11-16 if you're a young leader. It's not new to you, but be reminded that the Lord sees you in this season of being young. It's not a mistake. He hasn't done this by accident. He has you where you are for a reason.

Don't forget to check out KidminRoadmap.com and their free discipleship strategies. See how it could work with what you're already doing. Maybe it'll give some bones and framework to your ministry.

You can like, subscribe, leave a comment, and let us know what you think of this episode. We'd love to hear your KidMin fails. Throw them in the comments or email us at support@kidzmatter.com. But we love you guys, and we'll see you next time.