Episode 230: Read the Room | Engaging Your Large Group in Kids' Ministry with Steve Bloom

If you've ever stood in front of a room full of kids and felt the chaos creeping in, this episode is for you. Hannah Augustine sits down with Steve Bloom, executive producer of The Park Curriculum, to talk through practical strategies for large group ministry — from classroom management and behavior challenges to putting the right leaders in the right seats. Steve brings 16 years of kids ministry experience and a refreshing honesty about what actually works (and what doesn't) when you're leading elementary kids in a large group environment.

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Transcript

KidzMatter Podcast Ep. 230 — Read the Room: Engaging Your Large Group in Kids' Ministry with Steve Bloom

Hannah Augustine: If you have ever been in front of a large group of kids, you know that if you're not careful, it can become chaos. When classroom management and engaging large group time is a challenge, sometimes we just need a little guidance. And if that's you, then this episode with Steve Bloom from The Park Curriculum should give you some practical help.

I'm Hannah Augustine, and even though engaging a large group of kids is something that comes naturally to me, I always have room to grow. After ten years in KidMin, I've seen a lot of things — some of them are probably too scary to name. And if you're listening, you've probably seen some wild things too. So I'm excited to hear the practical strategies that Steve has to share with us today.

Before we jump in, I have to let you guys know that in July, we're diving into our KidMin Academy class on effective teaching. So if you love today's episode and want to dive even deeper into this conversation, I'd love to offer you one free KidMin Academy class. You can email our team at support@kidzmatter.com with the subject "podcast free class" to get the link, or you can visit kidminacademy.com. We offer a 25% off discount to our podcast listeners with the code "PODCAST," and you'll learn more about what KidMin Academy is on that site.

Now, we're excited to have Steve here. He has been on both sides of the large group experience with sixteen years of kids ministry experience that really positioned him to be the perfect executive producer for The Park, which is a brand new children's ministry curriculum. He specializes in large group experiences for elementary kids — and apparently large group environments for pets, because he and his family currently have five cats, two dogs, and three horses. Steve, that is a lot to take care of, and I'm just grateful you could join us in between all the vet appointments.

Steve Bloom: For sure. And let's just say that you don't want to take your shoes off in our house.

Hannah: That is fair. We just went through a season with five cats and we're currently down to three — my mother-in-law took two of them. And we have two dogs, so lots of pets here in our house too.

Now, as I mentioned, I've seen some things when it comes to large group environments. I've worked with some small groups, maybe twenty to thirty-five kids, and then with groups of over a hundred in an elementary environment. I remember one night we had kindergarten through sixth grade — it ended up being around a hundred kids. When we finished, I said, "We're never doing that again. We've got to split these kids up," because it was total chaos.

There are great ways that we can handle large group experiences and there are terrible ways that we can do it as well. So to kick things off, what would you say are two to three ways that we can create an environment where kids are engaged but also learning?

Steve: First, thank you so much for having me today, Hannah. It's awesome to be on the show with you. I want to start with a quick disclaimer — I know that there are very gifted teachers, educators, pastors, people who have been trained, who have multiple degrees, grandmothers, grandparents, people who know how to teach and how to relate to kids. And I am not about to tell you that you're doing anything wrong. I would never suppose to tell you that I've got a better way to do it. I'm just telling you what works for me, what's been successful, volunteer to volunteer. Is that fair?

Hannah: That's totally fair. I love it.

Steve: Okay, good. So the first thing that comes to mind is a joke from the comedian Brian Regan that I first heard probably thirty years ago. Are you familiar with Brian Regan?

Hannah: I've heard his name, but I don't think I've ever heard his content, so I'm looking forward to the joke.

Steve: So this was a long time ago. He's a great physical comic, and I'm not going to try to do the joke, but I'll give the gist of it. He talks about how kids and adults relate differently. He tells a story about a kid holding a balloon — the balloon gets away from him and floats away. The kid starts crying, pointing at it, saying he wants that balloon. And the adult's like, "Why are you crying? We'll get you another one." But the kid says, "I want that one."

And he said, what if an adult's wallet just started floating away? They'd do the same thing — running after it, panicking. And someone tells them, "Calm down, we'll get you another one." "But I want that one!" Brian Regan does the actual joke and it's very funny, but that idea has always stuck with me.

I also go back to Richard Scarry books. Do you know those?

Hannah: Yes, yes! I can picture the animation. Yes.

Steve: Perfect. Animals living in normal society and conducting business — they're pretty old, but they're beautiful books with amazing artwork, and they were a big part of my childhood. I remember one time I was reading one of them, and a cat was eating an ice cream cone and looking over the edge of a dam, but the ice cream had fallen off the cone and splattered on the ground, and the cat was just looking at it. I got the empathy gene bad. My heart broke for that little cat. I went to my mom and showed her, and I was upset. She said, "It's okay, honey. His mommy will buy him another one." And I can still feel the relief that brought me.

She could have said, "Well, that's why we need to be responsible. That's why we use two hands. That's why we don't run." She could have used it as a teaching lesson. But in that moment, she chose love, and made it all okay. And it's been a hundred years since then, and I can still feel that relief.

Those two things had a big impact on how I relate to kids when I started working with them. Kids just see the world differently than we do. They're not burdened by 1040 forms and timesheets and high cholesterol — but even on their best days, a lost balloon can be a big deal. Not fitting in, being the kid who does poorly in the spelling bee, striking out, finding out a grandparent is sick — these are potentially earth-shattering moments for a kid. We can't just say, "Whatever, big deal, everyone strikes out." We need to meet them where they are and help them process their experiences in a way their developing minds allow.

And fortunately, we have the answer. We have the gospel, the truth of God's word, which can help them through any situation. What we get to do is so huge — it's not only hope for eternity, it's hope for this life.

So number one: let kids be kids. Remember what life was like when you were in elementary school. You might have to stop and really think about it, but you can probably dig back and make that connection.

Number two is appeal to their imagination. I had a brilliant academic career until about third grade. Then I fell in love with a girl across the room and would ignore history and math and everything, daydreaming about how we were going to get married — and how ninjas would break into the school and I would fight them off. It was pretty anticlimactic when I actually met my wife and there were no ninjas involved. She's actually the one who could probably fight off the ninjas.

I was a daydreamer. Not every kid is, but I loved to spend fifth grade drawing pictures of epic battles. So I like to put kids in the story, or invite them to put themselves into the story.

Think about the story of Jesus feeding the five thousand. Imagine what that's like for that kid who brought the loaves and the fishes. His mom sent him out the door with it, told him not to forget his hat and jacket, called him back in a couple of times to wipe a smudge off his face. Every kid can relate to that. And then that kid got to be the hero — as far as the people were concerned. Jesus, of course, is the ultimate hero. But that kid? We still talk about him. And the extension is that our kids can think about the part they might play in leading someone to Christ — maybe something small, maybe something huge. You never know.

There are a lot of different ways to appeal to imagination. One thing that drove me crazy as an elementary kid was when a teacher would say, "Put on your thinking caps." I didn't have a cap I could put on — and maybe that's why I missed some lessons. But if you can make it practical, bring their imagination into it.

And the last one: you need to actually care. You need to remember that God put you in this role for a reason. You may not feel like it at first. For me personally, it was a calling before it became a passion.

I stepped up to serve, and I really didn't know why I was doing it. But one day we were doing a Saturday night service at our church, and I had finished leading — I'd gotten comfortable in my groove — and a small group leader came up to me afterward. She said the kids were doing a review, and the question was "Who loves us?" Two of the kids answered, "Mr. Steve!" She told me that, and it sent a current through me. It added a sense of purpose, as opposed to just being a helpful volunteer. That changed me.

We know our words are very powerful. She was acting in the Spirit when she said that, and it really built me up. I don't think caring is something you can fake. I think it's something you build. But I think it starts with taking that first step of obedience and just letting God work.

Hannah: Amen. Those are three amazing tips. Speaking from a place of love and care is the best place to start. And sometimes we have to take that first step. There are some kids you're going to naturally connect with, and there are some who may rub you the wrong way — it may be harder to invest in them. But our calling, as a person, and how much more as someone leading in ministry, is to love the people God puts in our path. When we take that posture of love and care, our words are going to mean that much more. They're going to receive from us knowing, "Mr. Steve, Miss Hannah — they love me." And that means what they're saying matters.

And if you're listening and maybe you're not there yet with some of your kids, I think Steve's first tip — letting them be kids, remembering what it was like to be one — really helps us find that compassion and empathy. I can vividly remember things that seem so silly now: feeling uncomfortable in certain pairs of shoes, because you're little and you don't know what kind of shoes you like, but your mom bought them, so you wear them. And as a kid it was such a huge deal to feel like you didn't fit in. As an adult it makes sense. In a kid's brain, it doesn't seem logical.

So those are some great tips as you're getting started with large group experiences. I know a big variable in large group environments can be behavior challenges, unique learning styles, and classroom disruptions. I'd love to work through that list, starting with behavior challenges. What are one or two practical strategies we can use when we're dealing with a behavioral challenge in the room?

Steve: When you say behavior challenges and unique learning styles, to me that's an equation that equals classroom disruptions. And again, I know there are professionals out there who know what they're doing and who are probably going to hear me and think, "That's not right." I'm just telling you what I do.

One of the guys I learned from and I have different styles here, and I respect him — I'll never tell him he's doing it wrong. This is just how I do it. And a little bit controversial: I don't want church to feel like school. School can be a drag to some kids. I'm the C student speaking here, so this is not coming from your valedictorian.

I think it's important to teach kids to be polite and respectful — those are values they should be learning at church, values they may not always learn at school. But I never want church to feel like they're being embarrassed or singled out. When I was a kid there were all kinds of techniques — standing in the corner, getting called out by name. I'm sure I deserved it when that happened, but I don't want to be the one doing that in church. I want church to be a completely different experience — one where they can have a good experience, or at least not have a bad one.

One day I was teaching in a big room and all of a sudden there was this loud exclamation — almost like a bark — that came from my right. It jarred me. I stopped. Is somebody hurt? All the kids looked over. Everything was fine, so I kept going. And then it happened again. Every minute or so. I'll be honest, I struggled getting through that one. Afterward, I went up to the person in charge and said, "What was that?" She said, "That's so-and-so. He's nonverbal, and when he gets stimulated, he exclaims. The more he exclaims, the more into it he is. He's picking up what you're putting down."

Now, it would have been nice to know that beforehand. But I was making it all about me, when here's the kid I really want to reach. Another time, there was this pocket of chattering and murmuring on the left side of the room. I kept going, but it was distracting me.

A lot of times if there's a disruption, I can use my body — move to that side of the room and talk more directly to them. That's a technique that works really well. You can also vary your voice. In this case, nothing I was doing worked. And so I made it through. I found out afterward that a small group leader was translating everything I was saying into another language for a group of foster kids.

How horrible do I feel? I'm so blessed they were there, and that I had the opportunity to talk to them. Those more difficult-to-reach situations force me to just be better at dealing with distractions. Our minds are capable of it — we can tune things out and power forward. Part of that is preparation, which helps a lot.

That young man with the exclamations was in the program for about three years. Now he's in high school and still involved at church — I see him in the lobby from time to time. I could have been a prima donna and made it all about me. I could have said he needs to be in a different program. But no — God brought him to my program, so I need to talk to him. I just want to be a vessel for the Holy Spirit to speak through.

I also value a good pressure relief. Sometimes you say something and the room just erupts — I once mentioned a very popular video game and I lost the room completely. And there's a moment of truth: do you start snapping your hands and shouting, or do you ride the wave? I've also seen teachers use incredibly effective methods to regain control — "If you can hear me, clap your hands," things like that. Those work really well for them. But my strategy is to let the room have that pressure relief.

We did an episode with John the Baptist once and had a small group leader dress in a Duck Dynasty costume. Something failed on the suspenders and the pants went straight to the ground. They were wearing shorts underneath, but we could not have scripted it better. I was not going to try to recover from that — we were going to lean in, laugh at it, and let them know I was in on the joke too. "This isn't just your immaturity finding this funny — it's legitimately funny."

Let it play out, let it dissipate, and then figure out how to get control of the room again. A lot of times I'll drop my voice very low. When you speak more quietly, other kids start to have a fear of missing out and they begin shushing the people around them. That spreads, and your kids become your greatest ally in bringing the energy back down. But when you do that, you better be ready with something compelling to say. Not just, "Boy, that was crazy, wasn't it?" It needs to be something a little more poignant.

Other leaders in the room are your best friends, too. Sometimes they'll get so engrossed in the story they forget they have a job to do. That's where a pre-service meeting helps — just say, "I get distracted easily and could really use your help keeping order." All it takes is a leader leaning over to refocus a kid's attention. And when leaders have their attention focused up front, it has a natural magnetic draw for everyone else. That works a lot better than snapping your fingers and pointing.

Now, sometimes there's a genuine behavioral issue that can't be managed in the room — that's when a parent needs to come in or the kid needs a break. But if it's a kid playing with the Velcro on their shoes, I have to learn to tune that out. It is within your capability as a large group leader to overcome those little distractors. It takes practice — just like learning to care, learning to love, all of this takes practice. And eventually what you thought was impossible, you're actually pretty good at.

Hannah: I think you're right — preparation is something we underestimate in children's ministry, especially when life is busy and Sunday morning lesson prep might happen Saturday night at ten. I would just encourage you: don't let that be your habit. Take the time to let that message get in your heart, in your spirit.

There's a principle from Ken Davis — he has a great book on communicating. He talks about practicing "on your feet out loud" — OYFOL. When you practice, you're not just reading, you are on your feet, out loud. He recommends doing it in front of a mirror. I would try to go through the message two or three times, with the first two as reading passes, and then the third one almost off script so I was comfortable. Because then you can adapt on a Sunday morning.

And you're absolutely right — learning which distractions need to be addressed and which ones just need to ride the wave is part of that preparation. Those of you listening know your environment better than either of us. You know the techniques that work. But giving yourself and your kids the freedom to know that the room doesn't have to be in perfect silence for you to teach — because it doesn't — is important. It is okay to let kids have conversations, play with Velcro, fidget a little. Sometimes that actually helps a kid listen better.

Then, like Steve said, find some techniques that work for you. Varying your voice, using body language, having those key phrases — "You're not going to want to miss this" — things that draw kids in. And kids can be your allies. The ones who are locked in may turn around and say, "Stop with the Velcro, I'm trying to hear this." And you're able to bring everyone's attention back.

Something I would do, especially with a big class, was tell the Bible story as fast as I could. I would get going — talking so fast you can barely think — and they'd all be like, "We don't understand!" And I'd stop and say, "Oh? Do I need to go slower?" That helped a lot, especially coming off a game or a high-energy worship song.

Find those things that fit your personality and use them. Don't try to be me. Don't try to be Steve. And have a couple of those things in your back pocket, because the same thing may not work every time.

And Steve, I think the reminder that those kids who are having a hard moment — whether it's a learning style, a language barrier, or a disability — they need to hear this message, maybe most of all. In some ways, they're your primary audience. Having that heart of, "How can I get to Andy, or Tony, or Sally?" — maybe that's even having a direct conversation with them. "Hey Sally, I've noticed sometimes during the lesson it's hard for you to listen. What could I do to help you want to hear this? Because I think it's the most important thing in the world." Don't be afraid to ask. It may help equip you for your specific audience.

Steve: A similar thing we did with the kid who would have the outbursts — we just went up to him and said, "Hey buddy, we're so glad you came today. We're so glad you're in our program and we're so happy every time you're here." Just to let him know we valued him and that he was welcomed. And he could understand us.

A lot of churches do the Night to Shine program. I've gotten to volunteer in it, and it serves people who are so marginalized — not just in society, but in the church too. And nobody should be marginalized in church. When God brings somebody like that into the environment, yes, he's doing it for them. But use it as an opportunity to make yourself better at reaching them. Roll up your sleeves, work harder — and it's very rewarding when you handle it right.

Hannah: And you mentioned kids who are in the foster system or adopted or struggling at home — when they can feel welcome and included in your environment, if they're not included anywhere else, they should be included at church.

Steve: Right. And I may never see them again. This might be their only Sunday there. So I value all of them. But there are some kids — this may be our only chance with them.

Hannah: Even in the moment of teaching, discerning — is this a good moment to acknowledge someone? Maybe you can tell Chad's not getting it, so you say, "Chad, I hope you're getting this. This is so good." Finding how to acknowledge great behavior is key. Sometimes we focus on the negative and the disruptive, but being able to say — especially to a kid who struggles to pay attention — "Chad, I can tell you're leaning in. That's so great. Sally, you are really listening and I love seeing that. I know this means a lot to you." Other kids will think, "I want to be listening, too." That's a win-win.

Versus calling out: "Chad, listen up, stop talking." Do you occasionally need to say that? Maybe. But if you can focus on the reward, that's going to be so much better.

And what you said about school — the nose-in-the-corner, getting called out for talking when you're generally a good kid. Just the shame of that, in front of your peers. We don't want kids to associate church with shame. If you need a coaching moment, do it before or after, not in front of a big group. Do your best to never correct a child publicly. If there's a global correction, okay. But don't single out one or two kids — it doesn't sit well. It leaves them feeling ashamed and hurt.

Steve: Yes. But you know what does sit well? When you praise Chad. When you call out a kid in a positive way, when you know their name and you say it — that resonates. That's a big deal to them.

There are these parasocial bonds that form one way, where your audience connects with you through the stories you tell, but you're not connecting back with each individual. Same thing happens in a large group. Kids form a bond with the person they see on stage — and they only see you from that one-to-many perspective. They form a bond that isn't reciprocated. And there's a letdown when they realize you don't know their name.

Last year at VBS, there was a little kid who came up to me every day and brought me his craft. By the end of the week he invited me to his house for dinner. I thought, how do I handle this? He's expecting me to come to dinner.

Hannah: And you're so right. That's such a good way to understand it. If you're listening — especially in a larger church, at VBS, or at a kids' camp — do your best to mingle with the kids. If you're the one teaching, go play the games, walk through the craft area, say hey, be present. Even as an adult, you know that feeling when you connect with a pastor and then meet them and they brush right past you. Bummer. How much more for a kid?

So when you can get on their level before or after — or even during — find ways to connect. You may not know every name, but you can still make it feel personal. You could even acknowledge: "There are a lot of you in here and I may not know all your names, but—" And then they think, "There are a lot of us. He can't know everyone. But he cares." And when you're making those comments, it's genuine.

That is such a good reminder, Steve. Putting the right people in the right places can really make or break large group time. I think we've all been there when the wrong person was in the wrong seat and everything went sideways. Any thoughts on how to make sure we're getting people in the right positions?

Steve: Yeah, this is a tough one. We want to take any willing volunteer we can get, and somebody who's willing to get up in front of people is a bit of a unicorn. But not everybody should be doing it.

If your last successful interaction with a kid was telling them to get off your lawn, maybe this isn't the role for you.

I think the first criteria for anybody is that they love Jesus. And that comes with an earnestness to serve, which can sometimes mean coming into the wrong role. But for a large group leader, number one is: you really need to know the lesson. Preparation is everything. Part of that is knowing the Bible story so well that you can speak about it extemporaneously without having to reference everything.

I'm not saying you have to have grown up in church or gone to Bible college — a lot of people serving in kids' ministry are new to their faith, and that's awesome. But spend time discipling yourself. Get into the Word.

For instance, at The Park, when we do our large group, the format is: an intro video that's funny or clever and appeals to imagination; a closing wrap-up video; and in the middle, a video of me teaching. Some churches use that whole video without modification. In my perfect world, that wouldn't be the case. I would love for you to take the script we've written and make it your own.

Because you know your kids way better than I do. I'm in Northern Virginia. You could be in Idaho, or South Dakota, or Alabama — and you know not just your demographic, but your specific kids. So if I'm telling a personal story about my mom and a book with a cat and an ice cream cone, I want you to tell your own story instead. And then here's the Bible lesson, here's how we're going to tell the story of the woman at the well or whatever it is. Take your Bible, go to that reference, look at it. Use a study Bible. Look at why that story is in the Bible. Why does Jesus want us to know this? What part will the kids have in it?

Understand it, be confident in it, and then the script becomes scratch paper — a framework, a reference — but you can make it yours without having to rewrite it. All you're doing is studying it and applying your life and your environment to it. We'd love for you to use the videos. We built a beautiful studio and have a lot of fun doing it. But in our perfect world, you're going to connect better with your kids than I ever will.

Hannah: You're like the opposite of selling. But you're absolutely right. Videos are there because some churches may not have someone trained up who can do it well. And you need something for when the teacher calls out sick, or your kids' director is on maternity leave. That's why it's there. But when you can step in — the beautiful thing about a large group script is it's theologically sound, it's been thought through, it's been written for a child's learning level. That means you can give it to a volunteer, and even send them the video to use as a training tool so they can learn those techniques on their own.

Steve: Other things I think are important: you should be good at public speaking. Part of that, again, is preparation — the more prepared you are, the more comfortable and credible you'll be. And please don't read it. Reference notes, fine, but please don't read.

Hannah: Please don't read it.

Steve: Now, if you're reading a story, kids love story time. And read directly from the Bible — actually hold the Bible, show it. As we age, some of us start needing reading glasses, but get a large print Bible if you need to. Because you need to believe the Bible is God's word. You may still be figuring things out, and that's fine. But you need to believe that what's coming out of that Book is his word. Be grounded in your faith, even if it's at an elementary level. If you're new to your faith and teaching kids, and you have a gift or calling to do this — don't walk away from it. Do it. Have confidence that he's the one who called you. Meet him in the process and be willing to grow.

I'd love to say you need to love kids. But to be honest, when I started, I didn't love kids. I loved my kid — she's awesome. But the day God called me to serve in kids' ministry, I said to him, "I will do whatever you want me to do." I was at a new church and said, "However I can help, I'll do anything." Except kids' ministry. That seemed crazy. I thought making coffee would be fun, or cutting the grass, anything like that. But that was the day God wanted me to work with kids.

And so I think the most important part of my story is that none of this can be about me. It all needs to be about his glory. He didn't make me good at baseball. He didn't make me a great student. But he made me good at talking to kids in a large group setting. I can't take any credit for that — every breath I take is a gift from him.

So step number one: be willing. If people are willing to put in the preparation and they're good at public speaking and it's a real calling, they're probably going to do well. And if someone isn't cutting it, I think you need to tell them in love. Have one awkward conversation rather than a million little awkward interactions.

Don't be fake — kids can smell fake a mile away. Don't pander to them for a reaction. I've seen leaders chase whatever trend is popular with kids, and I kind of cringe, because that's often what kills it. You'll never be as cool as a kid. And you don't need to be. Be yourself. Be that voice of authority, of credibility. Be a goofball if that's you. But kids can't imagine that you were ever their age. They love pointing out that I don't have hair. I'm not self-conscious about it at all — it can actually be a device for me. I'll never be as cool as they are, and they can't picture that I ever went to school. I can tell them and they'll be incredulous.

I minored in public speaking in college, and one verse has always stayed with me. It's probably a top-five verse just because it's from First Corinthians 13, so we tend to assume we know it. But for me, First Corinthians 13:1 is everything. Paul says, "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels" — and we know he was an incredible orator — "but if I don't have love, I'm a sounding gong or a clanging cymbal."

Right outside where I record, there are a couple of dumpsters and trucks come to dump them at the most inopportune times — usually when we're in the studio. And every time I hear that loud, crashing noise, I think: that's what my message sounds like if it doesn't come from love.

We know the spiritual weight that's on us if we lead a kid astray. So let's not go there. Let's start in love. Let's throw away our ego. Let's step up to the call and just serve.

Hannah: So good. And a beautiful way to close with that reminder that we carry a spiritual weight. Anyone you're inviting to teach, to share, needs to be living in a way that honors the Lord and honors the Word of God as they teach — whether they're leading a game or a worship moment or an altar call or a message. You need to make sure that person is in alignment.

I may have shared this before, but one of my pastors — someone told me he goes in the back before he speaks, kneels, and surrenders to the Lord. Then he goes out and teaches. I won't say I do it every time, but I do try to, because it's that moment of going: "This is not about me. This is not the gift I have. I've prepared. I've planned. Now, Lord, you take it from here." Whether that's speaking to a group of five kids or two hundred at a VBS, surrendering that moment to the Lord. So First Corinthians 13, guys — that's your homework. Go read it and maybe work on memorizing that first verse because it is so good.

Steve: People who are comfortable getting up in front of others — and sometimes they're actually very self-conscious, which is why when you meet the pastor and he's actually insecure, that happens a lot — or it's people who are used to being in the spotlight. And it's so easy for ego to be there. So it is a constant reminder: it is all about God. All about God. Number one, it's for his glory. Then it's all about those kids and their families, those volunteers. And it has nothing to do with me. Nothing.

Hannah: Well, if you're listening, I hope you've gained some practical next steps — and the heart behind these large group opportunities — and that the Lord has spoken to you. You're not alone if you've had some ups and downs. It's usually not cookie cutter when it comes to kids' ministry. You'll continue to experience challenges even as you apply all of these things. But just remember: consistency wins as you help create a cultural environment that guides kids to thrive.

Steve, we're so glad you're here. And if you're listening and want to learn more about The Park and this amazing new curriculum, you can visit parklearning.com. Their team would love to chat with you.

I do have to ask, Steve — out of your ten pets, which is your favorite?

Steve: So I was always a cat guy. Then we got dogs, and now I can say I'm not a horse guy — though I do have a favorite horse. But right now my favorite pet is Meatball. Meatball is a little old lady — a Pit Lab Boxer mix. She's this brown dog built like a tank, or a meatball, but she's the sweetest thing in the world. She was rescued out of a pretty rough situation, and she is just so happy to have a family and people who love her. Meatball appreciates her family. So today, Meatball is my favorite.

Hannah: That's amazing. Well, don't forget — you can email support@kidzmatter.com for your free KidMin Academy class, or visit kidminacademy.com and use the code "PODCAST" for 25% off tuition. Take a minute to like, subscribe, and share this episode with one of your large group teachers or volunteers. We'd love for you to leave a comment or review, and we will see you next time.