Episode 235: Emotionally Intelligent KidMin Leadership with Shelby Honeycutt

Conflict is part of ministry — you can't avoid it, but you can lead through it well. In this episode, Hannah sits down with certified coach, speaker, and DISC behavioral analyst Shelby Honeycutt for a sneak peek of her upcoming KidzMatter Conference breakout on emotional intelligence. Whether you're navigating a tough conversation with a volunteer or trying not to bring your worst self home after church, this episode will help you lead from a place of health.

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Transcript

Hannah Augustine (00:00) In a world full of people, you are bound to find conflict, and ministry is definitely no exception. Truthfully, as leaders in the church, we'll likely face more conflict than most people. Every day you're interacting with families, church leaders, volunteers, friends, and your own family. So relationships can feel complicated, but emotional intelligence goes a long way toward health and connection. And that's what we're talking about in today's episode of the KidzMatter Podcast.

My name is Hannah Augustine, and I've navigated my share of conflict — sometimes I've done it well, but other times not so much. Whether you consider yourself an expert in relationships or more of a beginner, I'm confident that today's conversation with Shelby Honeycutt will help you analyze your current level of emotional intelligence. Maybe you've heard that phrase before, but maybe you don't know what it means, so we're going to unpack that today. Shelby's wide range of experience gives her exactly what she needs to share on this topic, and you're actually getting a sneak peek of her breakout for The KidzMatter Conference. We're only a few months out from gathering with thousands of KidMin leaders in Evansville, Indiana — October 6th through 8th, 2026 — and it's not too late to get your tickets. Head over to thekidzmatterconference.com to get yours today. We would love to have you join us so you can get great content like what you're going to be hearing today.

As a certified coach, author, speaker, DISC behavioral analyst consultant — that's a mouthful — and leadership trainer specializing in emotional intelligence, Shelby is passionate about helping people discover their God-given purpose and reach their full potential. As a wife, mom, next-gen director, and proud pastor's kid, she believes every person is uniquely created by God to lead with purpose and influence.

Shelby, we're so glad you're here today. We're excited for a sneak peek at your breakout for the KidzMatter Conference — I'm wanting to hear it all, but I also want you to give it all away, so we're going to have to walk that line.

Shelby Honeycutt (02:16) That's exactly what I was preparing. I don't want to give too much away, but I want to give all the sneak peeks and the good stuff too.

Hannah Augustine I really believe this topic is so important. We were talking about this before we came on air — emotional intelligence is really coming to the forefront in culture. We've seen that over maybe the last five to ten years. But helping people in ministry grasp how to do this well is different, because we walk this unique line of not just being business people and yet we are, not just being church people and yet we are. And that can create a lot of tension. So as we kick off, can you define for everybody listening: what is emotional intelligence, and what does it have to do with us in ministry?

Shelby Honeycutt (02:59) Yes, absolutely. And first, thank you so much for allowing me to be on this podcast — it truly is an honor.

Emotional intelligence is very near to my heart, because we live in a society where emotions come from two different places. You're usually on one end of the spectrum where you don't feel emotion, you don't acknowledge emotion — it's there, but you ignore its existence. Or you're on the other end, where you respond to everything based on how you feel, and you lead from a position of how everyone else feels and make decisions based on that: this is how I'm going to make someone feel, this is how I feel about it — or the other extreme, where it doesn't matter how anybody feels, this is what we're doing.

There's a fine line, because God gave us emotion, and we see it all throughout Scripture. We see Jesus respond with emotion — not in a negative way, but properly managing it. So, in essence, emotional intelligence comes down to the ability to recognize and then steward your emotions. A lot of people aren't even aware of their own emotions — they feel something but don't know what it is. It's self-aware leadership: coming to a place as a leader where I know what I feel and how I can properly steward what I'm feeling, while also being aware of the emotions of the people around me — not catering to them, but responding in a way that truly represents truth and grace.

It's partnering with the person of the Holy Spirit. When we talk about Spirit-led living, emotional intelligence doesn't bypass that — it partners with the Holy Spirit to say, "I'm going to choose to live a disciplined lifestyle as a leader," so that self-control actually shows up. It's the work on the back end so fruit can be produced in our lives — leading from a position of self-awareness of my own emotions and self-awareness of the people around me. It's not excluding emotions, and it's not acting emotionally, and it's definitely not ridding ourselves of them — God gave us these to experience life. True leadership comes down to being able to say, "This is how I'm feeling, I recognize this, and this is how I can honor God in my response." It's another level of self-awareness, and another level of the sanctification process — walking out our salvation and allowing God to shape us as we lead, as we serve others. That's the quick summary of what emotional intelligence is.

Hannah Augustine (05:43) That's so well said, and I really appreciate the way you tied it into our spiritual life. Culture talks about emotion, emotion, emotion, and says, "Yes, emotion is great" — and like you said, Jesus had emotions and managed them well, and we can watch that model. When we live in a space where either my emotions are the most important, or other people's emotions are the most important, we're going to be driven by either pleasing people or pleasing ourselves. When we can come to that balance of "emotion is important, but emotion is not what needs to rule every situation" — that's really hard sometimes to find. Most of us were probably raised one way or the other. I have a friend who had to wrestle with her faith because she grew up believing negative emotions were just something you change the channel on — don't focus on that. Is that good sometimes? Sure. But when we suppress all those negative emotions, we sometimes feel guilt even within our faith — like, "I'm not supposed to feel angry, I'm not supposed to feel hurt or sad." What you're talking about is really finding how do I identify it, and then how do I deal with it appropriately, with self-control.

Shelby Honeycutt (07:09) It matters big. My favorite analogy is that emotions are excellent indicators — but terrible drivers. Picture this: you would never put your toddler in the front seat of your car and say, "Go drive." That's a shipwreck waiting to happen. But if your toddler is properly strapped into the back seat — and I say that's not just for the toddler's safety, it's for the safety of everyone else in the vehicle — however you want to think about it, that's how emotions work. They're not in the trunk, and they're not driving the car. They're a healthy indicator of what's going on, but they need to be strapped in. Then I can choose how I'm going to respond.

Hannah Augustine (07:54) That's so good. What would you say is the biggest emotional intelligence mistake you see ministry leaders make?

Shelby Honeycutt (08:02) Specifically with ministry leaders, I think emotional maturity gets mistaken for spiritual maturity. We think, "Because I'm spiritually mature, because I know Jesus, I've got this." You'll see pastors deliver a powerful message — and it is a powerful message, the Word is powerful — but then they walk off stage and lash out at someone backstage, nitpick things, go home and lose it on their family. There's tension at home, frustration at home. Yes, a powerful message — but the awareness of how we show up and how it affects the people around us just isn't there. We think that because we've "arrived" spiritually, how we carry ourselves and respond is fine. That's confusing spiritual maturity with emotional maturity, and emotional maturity is the growth that happens behind the scenes. It matters, especially when it comes to people trusting us as leaders. We can be put in a position of authority — that's fine — but we have to steward that gift, steward what God has given us to steward, so people feel safe, want to trust us, and want to follow us.

You'll hear leaders say things like, "I just don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, I don't want to step on toes," so we tailor how we lead to compensate for other people's emotions. Or you'll see the other spectrum: "I just tell it how it is, I'm a straight shooter." Both of those can be true statements, but really what they show is unmanaged emotion. Leading from the heart of God means people are built up when you walk away — they might be called out, and it might sting a little, but it comes from that balance of truth and grace that echoes the heart of God. Sometimes conflicting conversations need to happen. Emotional intelligence in ministry isn't saying everything's hunky-dory all the time and everybody jumps on the happy wagon — that's not true. We see it throughout the Word: Jesus flipped tables. That wasn't an outburst of rage — He removed things that simply didn't belong in His house. Sometimes as leaders, we need to remove things that don't belong in our house. And in other situations, He called things out — like with the woman caught in adultery. He didn't fail to call sin, sin, but He did it in a redemptive, restorative way. He spoke to the heart of the person.

Ministry leaders, from a spiritual-maturity mindset, sometimes want to be so black and white that we call people out in a way that condemns and causes shame — that's not who our God is. We want to call things out in a way that builds people up. But on the other end, sometimes we call it "spiritual" when we say, "I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, I don't want to cause conflict," when really, sometimes we do have to call things out, and sometimes that's the heart of God. Spiritual maturity does not bypass character development behind the scenes, discipline behind the scenes, or emotional intelligence.

Hannah Augustine (11:53) What you're describing is subtle — there's a lot of subtlety in avoiding these extremes. Not that the extremes never come, but when we're emotionally intelligent and self-aware, we can learn to regulate and navigate these moments. I've been in ministry situations — even with my spouse — where we're having a conversation and I have to catch myself from falling into familial patterns, wanting to lash out, get angry, lose it. And I have to say, "Okay, I'm going to need to walk away and go for a walk," and that may be the kindest thing I can do. I think with kids' ministry especially, kids don't always understand their emotions, so we have to be aware and not fall to their level — if they're freaking out, I'm the adult here, I've got to be calm. Something my mentor told me recently — she's helped me so much in this area — she shared that when she gave birth to her first child, she had learned Lamaze breathing to stay calm, but she wasn't prepared, and she ended up yelling and crying out. She said she was never going to do that again, and with her next child she stayed in control. But once she'd opened that door the first time, she said she couldn't calm back down — whereas the second time, since she didn't open the door, she stayed in control. I think there are subtleties there, but when it comes to anger, or for me, resentment — once you open that door, it's very difficult to close. So I try to deal with it with the Holy Spirit before I let that big emotion out on the world, because nobody needs the full force of my anger and frustration.

Shelby Honeycutt (13:58) No, that's exactly it. But that's how the world operates — my emotion is 100% dependent on circumstances, on what other people say or do. Go through a day and keep track of what comes out of your mouth, or the people around you: "That just made me so mad. They make me so mad." They actually can't. If we get the revelation that you are the only person responsible for your emotional state and your response, no one can actually make you mad, no one can make you blow off the handle. We give away that power because it's the easier thing to say. But emotional intelligence takes us to a whole other level of leadership, because we're able to say, "You don't get to make me mad. I recognize that irritated me, this is why it irritated me, and this is how I choose to respond in spite of it."

There are two realms here: an external locus of control and an internal locus of control. The external locus says everything outside of me decides what happens in me — I wake up and I can't tell you what attitude I'm going to have or where I'll end up by the end of the day, because that's dependent on what I walk through. The internal locus says, "I will acknowledge my emotions, but I won't be led by them. My day doesn't lead me — I lead my day." One of my favorite things about emotional intelligence is, one, you can grow in it, and two, it's self-leadership. Every person on the planet is a leader, because you first have to lead yourself — but that's usually overlooked. We find ourselves wanting to lead other people while being led by anything and everything around us. If we can switch to this internal locus of control — what's in me decides how I'm going to respond, how I want to show up — then at the end of my day I can be filled with peace and joy regardless of what I faced. We have that ability and empowerment from our spiritual lives. God says it's available, and I can rely on Him to empower me to do it, but I've got to decide to walk it out and renew my mind.

Hannah Augustine (16:25) You're right — we so often let the coffee pot not working ruin our whole day, or the weather being bad. I can't tell you how often I've been in conversations, and in the back of my mind I'm thinking, "Okay, Holy Spirit, help me figure out how to respond," because I feel these emotions climbing and I know I need help. And what you said about our emotions — we flip that: we're only responsible for our own. So I cannot take on my spouse's emotions, the parents' emotions, the kids', the volunteers'. When I start to take that on and try to fix it, I'm putting myself forward in a way that's not helping anyone — and in ministry, I feel like that's super common.

Shelby Honeycutt (17:20) No — teachers walk into a classroom, the kids are stressed out, you walked in with a plan but they're going haywire, and now you're stressed because you've picked up all the emotion of the room. Emotional intelligence will actually come in and say, "I recognize the emotion of the room, this is how I'm going to respond, and this is how I'm going to help them recognize and walk through their own." It's not just about how you show up — emotional intelligence and maturity help you help others walk through, manage, and recognize what they're dealing with too. Especially with kids — usually a kid can only name four major emotions: mad, sad, happy, or hurt. Sometimes anxiety pops in now because of Inside Out, so everyone knows what anxiety is. But they don't know beyond that. They don't know that mom and dad got in a fight on the way to church and that scared or frustrated them, and that's why they're lashing out in the classroom — they just know they're mad, or they're sad, and they don't know how to break that down. As an emotionally intelligent person, I can step into the room as a teacher and help them: "This is why you're feeling that, this is what you're actually feeling, this is how we can choose to respond, this is within your control." So it's not just about me not taking on others' emotions — it's about helping dissect that on the other side too.

Hannah Augustine (19:03) Yes — taking responsibility for myself and then turning that around to help someone else. It's like that oxygen mask — my mom's a counselor and talks about that: you've got to put on your own oxygen mask first. But once your mask is on, you can turn and help someone else, because you're in a place of health and stability. I think it helps us manage conflict too. How would you say emotionally intelligent leaders handle conflict differently than someone who isn't as strong in this area?

Shelby Honeycutt (19:32) Emotionally intelligent leaders respond to conflict; emotionally immature or unintelligent individuals react to conflict. A reaction is instant, not thought through — based purely on what I feel in the moment or what you said in the moment. A response means you actually take in what's going on, read behind the scenes, hear what's behind what's being said, not just the words themselves. So a volunteer might lash out and say, "It's always got to be your way or the highway." I could react unintelligently: "It is my way or the highway — I'm the boss, and if this isn't the ride you want, get off." That's usually how conflict gets managed poorly, or it's just avoided altogether. But an emotionally intelligent leader hears what's actually being said: "I didn't feel heard in the room. I wasn't seen. I wasn't valued." So instead of "get off the train," an emotionally intelligent leader says, "You're right, I probably didn't hear you in that instance," and either explains why the decision went a certain direction or simply says, "I honestly didn't hear you, and that's my bad." They take responsibility, because in healthy conflict I can take responsibility for my part, where I missed it — because people are watching. As ministry leaders, we're shepherding people — not just running good activities or good services, but shepherding kids, volunteers, and other leaders. People watch how we handle success, failure, apologies, and conflict. These moments are pivotal in leadership. If we're emotionally unintelligent, this is when it all comes out — we blow up when things don't go our way, like when the youth pastor gets the budget we asked for, or the worship team gets the dates we wanted as KidMin leaders. That's when emotional intelligence shows up: do I respond with "I'm never seen, I'm never heard, they don't even want me here" — which they never said — or can I take a step back, look at the big picture, and either confront what needs confronting or recognize that's simply the better call for the big picture? It really comes down to reacting or responding, and that applies at home with kids, with a spouse — emotional intelligence touches every level of life.

Hannah Augustine (23:06) It can be summarized in three things I've learned in therapy or read in books. First, "I" statements — focus on me, not on you. When I'm in conflict, I say, "I'm hearing you say this, I may be misinterpreting — can you help me understand?" That's the second one: seeking to understand, wanting to hear where they're coming from, and if I'm not sure what's between the lines, asking clarifying questions. And third, putting myself in their shoes. When I've been in conflict and I slow down enough to look through their eyes, that often helps me feel repentance, understanding, or compassion, which helps me pivot. All of that is focused on me interpreting things properly, which then allows me to manage how I'm feeling and decide: is this something I need to address, speak up about, or accept because of the other person's needs? That can be hard, and often it comes down to personality — some people always want to push and fight, others never want to fight back, and neither is entirely right. We need to find that middle ground of being willing to fight for what we need to fight for in love and grace and emotional intelligence, while also knowing when to be humble and surrender, because the Lord calls us to do that too — and that's just as important as championing and fighting for what we need. Sometimes it's saying, "I'm going to let this other person have what they need in this situation." That's a hard thing to find, especially in ministry.

Shelby Honeycutt (24:56) It absolutely is. It's seeing from the heart of God — I see you — and it's not taking things personally, but taking personal responsibility. That's a big difference. If I take everything around me personally — a service doesn't go well, everyone ran late — that still requires emotional intelligence, and there's a whole sub-layer of it in one weekend alone. But it's also present when everything's going great — what does emotional intelligence look like then? It's being able to say, "I'm not going to take what happens in the staff meeting, the volunteer meeting, the classroom personally." Kids are kids too, and they'll tell you, "I hate this class, I don't want to be in here." Do you leave and quit the team because you never want to teach again? Or do you take personal responsibility rather than taking it personally? There's a difference, and that's another marker of emotional maturity versus immaturity — how we respond to things.

Hannah Augustine (26:08) I think ministry makes it even harder. If I were in corporate and left at 5 p.m. and shut my laptop, I'm done — Jimmy in accounting drives me nuts, but I can report him to HR or ignore him. In ministry, sometimes there's not even an HR, and it doesn't stop when I go home — people are calling and reaching out. It's very difficult when we're putting our heart and soul into caring for people, leading people, caring for families, not to take things personally. That takes so much emotional intelligence, and so much practice. I'm a big fan of counseling — I like to tell leaders you need at least six weeks, which isn't a lot, but it may help you figure out what areas you can keep working on. Honestly, I've gotten just as much growth and support from my mentor. Counseling is great for learning some of the tips, but then finding someone wiser than me — we had a call two weeks ago, and I said, "I'm frustrated about this and this," and she said, "No, you don't need to be frustrated about that — that's on you to manage," or other times, "Yeah, that sounds like something you need to have a conversation about." Having that safe space helps me respond properly, because sometimes I'm looking through my own lens and get this narrow, blinded focus. Having someone who knows me well and knows my situation gives me those skills, and the more I practice that muscle, the stronger it gets, and the more emotional intelligence I have. That helps in every area — like you're saying, it touches everything in our lives.

Shelby Honeycutt (27:54) It does. I'm a firm believer in outside accountability — there's safety in a multitude of counsel. Especially with topics like this, you need an outside voice, because our emotions and our brains can tell us so many things. It's vital for us to personally take responsibility, renew our minds according to the Word — what does the Word say, am I living in step with the Spirit? Those things are vital. I have a coach, and I am a coach, for that reason — you need a sounding board, someone who can say, "Am I off here?" And when you've asked that person to be in that position, they're allowed to shoot you straight. Even that is emotional intelligence — not being too prideful to be above help, above another voice in your life.

I think of the story of Jesus in the garden — He says, "I'm so grieved, God, is there any other way?" We see so many emotions at work right there with Jesus, but He takes it to God first, and says, "Regardless, let Your will be done." Sometimes in our emotional situations, it's that same posture: regardless, God, what is Your will, what would You have me do? On the flip side, we see the disciples — He says, "I need you to pray, I need you to pray." I've studied that, and I don't believe He was saying, "I need you to pray for me" — He was trying to prepare them for what was coming, saying, "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." That's counsel they even got from Him, but they went back to sleep. And what do we see? Peter responds emotionally and cuts off someone's ear — "I'm going to save Jesus." That's what our emotions cause us to do — bring us to a place that's so off the wall. But that counsel from Jesus — "the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak" — and us recognizing that with emotional intelligence means positioning ourselves to get strength from the Holy Spirit, partnering with the empowerment God has given us, and also having someone there, another voice, saying, "Hey, your flesh is weak here, you need to position yourself differently." So we don't go lashing out, cutting off ears, when we don't agree with the plan.

Hannah Augustine (30:36) Peter really never got the subtlety — I feel like he never picked up on Jesus' subtle teachings.

Shelby Honeycutt He was growing in emotional intelligence — we see that all the time.

Hannah Augustine He was doing his best. As a coach, how do you help a leader identify when they're leading from health versus leading from a place of hurt and a lack of emotional intelligence?

Shelby Honeycutt (31:05) That goes right back to that respond-versus-react distinction. When I'm sitting with a leader and asking them to walk me through a situation, I'll pinpoint their react-or-respond point and dive into it: "What made you respond that way?" If their first inclination is "they made me," "that frustrates me," "they always" — these all-or-nothing terms — that's usually an emergent response rooted in hurt and unhealth. On the other end, if someone says, "I've recognized this is a pattern, I'm not sure what it's rooted in, but I took a step back and chose to respond differently," that's a leader trying to be self-aware, trying to look at the big picture rather than just what I feel in the moment.

There's an immediate reaction versus an intentional response, and if you dive into how someone handles conflict, you'll quickly recognize which one they're rooted in. Was there a pause, a real consideration of what I'm feeling, or not? Another way to spot it: ask someone, "What are you feeling right now?" "I don't know" is usually rooted in unhealth, because a self-aware leader will already know — "I'm feeling frustrated, this is why, this is what's unhealthy about it, this is what I need to confront, this is how I want to respond." An unhealthy leader will quickly say, "You made me feel — you bypassed me, you overlooked me, you didn't hear me" — it's you, you, you, focused entirely on someone else, rather than "this is how I took that, this is how I decided to interpret that." Unhealth shows up in "yous" and external blame; responsibility is taken by a healthy leader.

Hannah Augustine (33:51) That makes me think of what you shared earlier about external versus internal — finding that center. When everything is about another person, another situation, another circumstance, that may mean I'm not in tune. My parents taught me the phrase, "Wherever I go, there I am." I've tried to identify patterns that have walked with me, so when I'm in a moment feeling a certain way, I can recognize, "I felt like this with that other person, or at that last job, or in that previous situation." When it comes to conflict, maybe it isn't just a "them" issue — sure, it takes two to tango, but there's also a "me" issue. If I can point back and see the same cycle happening with multiple people over the course of my life, that's where it's important to take time and get back to the root: where does this come from? An identity issue? A sin issue? Something from my family growing up that I'm just used to and maybe blind to? That's where a coach, counselor, or trusted mentor can really help, because they're seeing it from the bigger perspective — they can say, "I've noticed you always seem to react a certain way when a certain thing happens." Sometimes that's what we need: an outside voice.

Shelby Honeycutt (35:23) It absolutely is important. And it's also taking a step back and asking: what is within my control, and what is outside of my control? Most of our focus at work, and especially in ministry, goes to things outside our control — what other departments are getting, what other people are doing, how other ministries are succeeding, how the audience is responding. When really, I can only control what I can control. I can't control my husband's attitude when he gets home. I can't control what attitude the kids show up with. I can't control how much they walk away with, no matter how on-fire my lesson was. I can control what I've been given to steward, and that's a lot of emotional intelligence. If we shifted our focus and effort onto what we can actually control, it'd be a different world.

Hannah Augustine (36:47) Ultimately it's coming back to the perspective that God is sovereign. When we're talking about "that ministry is getting that" or "senior leadership is making this decision," I can step back — I believe it's in Proverbs or Psalms where it says the Lord directs the heart of the king like a watercourse, like a river, wherever He pleases. The New Testament parallel I think of is Jesus with Pilate — Pilate says, "Don't you know I have the authority to release you or condemn you?" and Jesus says, "You only have that authority because it's been given to you by God." I've had seasons where I've had to say, "Lord, You've put me under the authority of this person, this organization, this ministry, and I can't control what they decide. I can control me, and I'm trusting You to work on my behalf, provide what I need, and lead me." So many times when I've prayed for leaders and hoped something would happen, I've watched the Holy Spirit bring it about — maybe not in my way or my timing, but ultimately God is in control of the situation. A pastor I know used to say that the most important thing you bring to the table is a healthy version of you — a healthy soul. Especially in ministry, when we're dealing with hard seasons and dark seasons, being able to say, "I'm coming with a full cup" — a full set of knowing how to handle myself and my emotions — that changes the game in how you lead in any form of ministry.

Shelby Honeycutt (38:16) Absolutely — because people experience you way before they experience your theology. That's where emotional leadership, strategic leadership, and Spirit-led leadership make a huge difference. I want people to experience the heart of God before I ever have to tell them that's what I believe. They should already know it.

Hannah Augustine (38:39) That translates to everything. We've heard the phrase, "Your life may be the only Bible someone ever reads." How are you carrying yourself on social media? How are you responding in a conversation about politics, or on a topic you don't agree with? What matters more than anything else is my reflection of Jesus — I want to honor Him. No one's going to even get to your theology if you've pushed them away with how you're carrying yourself.

Shelby Honeycutt (39:16) That's the essence of emotionally intelligent leadership.

Hannah Augustine (39:21) If you could give every ministry leader one emotional intelligence habit that would set them up and help them grow in this area, what would it be?

Shelby Honeycutt (39:30) I would say the power of the pause. We don't pause — we're afraid of silence, afraid of that "be still and know that I am God" moment. We are terrible at being still as a society; it's foreign to us. One of the most powerful things any leader can do is really hone into the power of a pause — in a conflicting situation, at home, in the classroom. Take that moment to pause and ask, cliché or not, "How would Jesus respond in this moment? God, what is Your will, and how can I steward Your will in this instance? Let me put my heart in check." You said something beautiful earlier about checking your heart, keeping your heart right — guard your heart with all diligence, for out of it flow the issues of life. So many times we let everything coming at us control the frame of our heart, and then things start coming out of us that we don't want to come out. Taking that intentional pause: How do I want to respond in staff meeting? How am I feeling? What would it look like to honor God in this response? What would it look like in my classroom, in my marriage, when my toddler is raising chaos at home? What would it look like to pause instead of lashing out — what would honor God, what would honor the Spirit, even in just that moment, to empower me to stay in step with what He would have me do? That's where we see fruit produced, life produced — where we take control away from everything going on around us and properly place it in a posture of surrender and stewardship: "God, how would You have me steward this moment? What words would You have come out of my mouth?" Too often we skip that and just want God to fix the other person. If more of our prayers, out of that pause, were "God, how would I handle this in a way that would honor You," our response to authority, to a chaotic classroom, to our kids, our marriages, the people around us — it would all be different, all because we took that pause. So: take that pause. Give yourself a minute to intentionally respond rather than instantly react.

Hannah Augustine (42:09) So good. And that comes back to what you shared at the beginning — this is all about sanctification, and the Holy Spirit working in us to make us more like Him. That's what it comes down to, guys — you need that pause in conversations, that pause in your time with the Lord, that pause to slow your mind and let the Holy Spirit speak to you. That is so good, Shelby. Do you have a favorite book, podcast, or resource for people who want to dive deeper on this?

Shelby Honeycutt (42:44) There's a podcast I've listened to — Dr. Irini Fambro has it. I'm not sure it's still current; I know she recently took over a college role, so I'm not sure the show is still active, but she talks about the multiple intelligences leadership requires, and she covers emotional intelligence as one of them, along with spiritual intelligence. That's one of my favorites. The other is The Self-Aware Leader by John Maxwell — one of my all-time favorite books, because it really hones in on: I need to be aware of me, I can't lead others until I lead me. Those are my top two when it comes to emotional intelligence and self-awareness — leading myself well so I can lead others well.

Hannah Augustine (43:39) That's great. And friends, you can come meet Shelby — come to the KidzMatter Conference, go to her breakout, I'm sure she'd love to chat with you throughout the conference. We'd love to help you get connected to her, so reach out if you'd like to chat more with Shelby. Shelby, thank you for investing in our audience — we're so grateful for how God is using your wisdom, helping couple practical ministry with a Spirit-led approach, looking comprehensively at who we are as people. So beautiful.

Shelby Honeycutt (44:10) Thank you so much for having me again. I'm looking forward to the conference — it's going to be great.

Hannah Augustine (44:13) Of course. And if you're listening — we haven't met in person yet, so we're very excited, because we've got the same heart, and I love that. Friends, don't forget you can get your tickets to the conference at thekidzmatterconference.com. It's not too late — I believe tickets are live until the Friday before, but don't wait that long! Get your tickets, start scheduling your travel and accommodations. We would love to see you there. Take a moment to like and subscribe, and we'll see you next time.