Fitz Nation: Stories and Life Lessons from the UFC
Fitz Nation: Stories and Life Lessons from the UFC
The White House UFC Card?! Fitz & Weidman Talk UFC 326 & BMF Belt
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Text me a question for the show
UFC 326, the BMF belt debate, and the shocking announcement of a possible UFC fight card at the White House — Fitz & Weidman break it all down.
On this episode of The Fitz & Weidman Show, Brendan Fitzgerald and former UFC middleweight champion Chris Weidman break down the biggest headlines in the fight world.
We dive into the developing storylines around UFC 326, debate the meaning and legitimacy of the BMF belt, and react to the stunning announcement of a potential UFC event at the White House.
What does the BMF title really represent in today’s UFC? What were their reactions to the White House card being announced?
Fitz and Weidman bring their unique perspectives from inside the broadcast booth and inside the Octagon to unpack it all.
Topics in this episode:
• UFC 326 storylines
• The future of the BMF belt
• Reaction to the White House UFC event announcement
• What makes a “BMF” in today’s MMA
• Behind-the-scenes insight from the fight game
Welcome to the show, everybody. Isn't this a special occasion? You're looking at me, Brendan Fitzgerald, you're looking at the all-American Chris Wideman for a show that's yet to be named, yet to be fully committed to, but we're we've become fast friends, so we said let's hop on and have a conversation and catch up and let the world hear it. Chris, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_02I'm good, man. Yes. We shall see where this goes, but yeah, I think it's gonna be fun. It's us, we we're we're good buddies, um, and you know, we like to we like to talk about the fights, it's good for us to do it's kind of what we're doing for a living now. So it's good. This is this is good, let's do it.
SPEAKER_00So, yeah, like you want reps in terms of media. You have dove into the media space head first, and I was just talking to your manager, and it was just like, this was unexpected for you. You weren't chasing this down. Like some others might be like, Man, it would be great if I could do TV afterwards, and you didn't really have an idea. And now, Christopher Wideman, you are a media darling. Do you know that?
SPEAKER_02It is weird. You're right. I did not chase it. You are sought after. Yeah, well, I appreciate that. I don't I how did that happen, Chris? I don't know. I really don't know. I took some opportunities on things um just because I like to take advantage of opportunities. I don't like opportunities going away and having a regret. Yeah. Um, so I was asked to do the weigh-in show once as a guest, which they typically have you know guests in on every weigh-in show. And they liked me after the first one. They were like, We'd love to for you to be a regular. Um, but it was still like at that point, it was still like here or there. I would say no to some of them because I had stuff with kids and whatever, and I was training. Um and then I would say yes, you know, a lot of other times. And then eventually he, you know, Zach, the head guy, was the head producer. He said, you know, we'd love to make you per like the per a permanent guy on the way-in show, and we'd love to you know have you start doing desk work as well. And I was like, uh I guess I'll do it. I don't know. Because I had I had a bad experience. So back in back in my back in the Fox days of the UFC, this is when I was championed so a long time ago. This is like 2013, 14-ish. Right. Um, they had asked me to do a death show in um out in California for Fox. And I did a couple shows, and it was very different for me. I like to be just genuine, talk off the cuff, I make mistakes, I am not going to be perfect. I can't, I'd never have I can never even dream of being like a perfect orator. I don't have that. Like, like you, Anic, Heli, you guys have these dreams, and you guys could actually nail it. It's unbelievable to me. I am going to flub on words no matter how hard I try. Um, so anyway, I um so I'm better, I'm better like just organic conversations. Um, and so the desk work when I did it back in 2013-14. After one of the shows, I didn't think I did good. I never think I do good, but after one of the shows, one of the producers sent me the like the transcript of the whole show, everything I said, uh-huh, redlined. You know, you should have said this for this, you should have done this better. You know, you're that seems like a bad producer, by the way. The ums and the okay's, like whatever things I did to fill up space, nailed it, like just got on me on everything, and I'm like, all right, this is not for me. Like, I it's like, you know, it's not it's not me walking to the gym and training MMA. I'm very comfortable doing that. I still get nervous doing that because I highly have high expectations of myself. And so going to the TV world, it's new, it's it's nerve-wracking, it's uncomfortable. The 70 70% of myself doesn't want to be there.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02And then I'm getting criticized like that. I'm like, oh, I can't do this. I just I'm good. Um, and and then the and as we fast forward, like, you know, I was world champion, and my fame and relevancy within the MMA game has just slowly trickled down, and I was kind of okay with it. And I was okay with kind of just slowly dying out in the MMA world and starting my own life in South Carolina, maybe starting a couple businesses or whatever, trying to make money that way and not be in the limelight. So I was kind of cool with that. Um, and then but these opportunities came and and here we are, and now I'm doing a bunch of things with the UFC and I'm enjoying it now. It's it's yeah, I really uh I'm having a great time. It's it's worked out. It's um they let me be myself, which is great, and I'm having fun doing it. Yeah, I'm gonna keep I'm gonna keep taking the opportunities and we'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_00It's a hell of a lot of fun, isn't it? Travel around the world, you just get to talk to fights and whatever. It's it sounds easier than it is, as you've kind of like come to discover, but once you unlock the door and you step through into like where you feel like you know what you're doing, it's amazing. Like it's an amazing way to get a few bucks.
SPEAKER_02Brendan, I'm still not big.
SPEAKER_00Well, you're walking through the door, you're doing enough where you're like I said, you're sought after, right? Like we're we're keeping you around, Paramount's interested, and like um and then so much so that I'm I was like doing a podcast with Wideman would be kind of fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Let me text you and see. That's where we got. What should we call this show, Chris? What should we call this little experiment? I mean, I just hit you up with the Fitz and Wideman show. The Fitz and Wideman experiment.
SPEAKER_01I like it. Um The Fitz and Wideman.
SPEAKER_00I picked some Wideman show, and I was wondering if you would be uh mad at me for for putting Fitz first. No, I don't care. Should it be the Wideman and Fitz show?
SPEAKER_02No, I don't care either way. Any direction is good. Whatever catches the ear and people like better. I don't know. Maybe we could ask the fans.
SPEAKER_00Here's the other thing.
SPEAKER_02We're talking we could just ask Chat GPT. We could ask Chat GT. I I did that already.
SPEAKER_00I did that already. And it came up with some you know generic ones or whatever.
SPEAKER_02Sometimes it's not great.
SPEAKER_00The one thought I had too was like, I think we're talking about five things. I think I jotted down five topics to cover today. Yeah. So I was just like, what if it's five rounds with Fitz and Wideman? And we have like, you know, a little discussion on five different things. Has that been round?
SPEAKER_02Has that probably? Probably we'll just have to steal the name.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02That sounds good to me.
SPEAKER_00Let's let's get into let's talk a little fights though. Oh, yeah. Let's do it. The BMF is now Charles Oliveira. Yeah. After five rounds of grappling, after 20 plus minutes of ground control time, Charles Olivera is the BMF. You were there. What did you think on a Monday after we saw the belt change hands in that fashion?
SPEAKER_02Alright. So to be honest, I did not think it as it I didn't think of it as as boring as what people at home are saying, you know, because I was really blown away with how dominant Charles Oliveira was against a guy like Max Holloway. Because now people are gonna say Max Holloway's not that good, because that's what happens anytime somebody loses. But Max Holloway's never been taken down and controlled that way in his career. Right. And he was trying his best. And Charles Olivera was able to just make it look like he has no takedown defense at all, completely crush him. And and the reason why it was boring also in people's eyes is because there was no finish, but that's also a testament to Max Holloway's jujitsu because Max uh Charles Oliveira, man, he's got the most finishes in the UFC, right? Yeah. At least in I think ever. Most finishes ever.
SPEAKER_00Most finishes in the UFC in UFC history. Most submissions in UFC history, like that's his bread and butter, right?
SPEAKER_02The guy's not going there to lay on top of somebody. He is so dangerous on top, and he was on top of it for 20 minutes, and Max Holloway did a good job of not getting submitted. Um you know, if if if there was there was a couple times I thought he was gonna be able to stop him. There was a couple moments where he had him really locked down in like a mount position and was throwing down some elbows, and Max just you know, took a couple really hard elbows and fight he fought his way through it and got to a better position. Um but man, a couple, a couple rear naked chokes and head and arms and stuff, but uh yeah, it it's uh it I thought Max, I mean I thought I thought Max was gonna win the fight. I thought his footwork was gonna be too good. I thought his boxing is just better, he's faster. So I thought he would really just startle him on the feet, and I thought his takedown defense is awesome. So Charles was gonna have trouble taking him down.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, nobody has been able to neutralize Max like that in grappling. And so that's the same thing. I was just like, well, if it comes down to footwork and the fight's gonna be on the feet, which Max usually keeps the fight on the feet, then Max might be too much. But the opposite happened.
SPEAKER_02Look what just happened with the Strickland Fluffy fight. I didn't see that coming either. Strickland, I knew has pretty good takedown defense, could get back to back up to his feet a feet pretty easily. Yeah. Compared to a lot of guys, he's very experienced. I thought he would be able to stop some of the takedowns, but I think I thought eventually it would be just too much. He'd be getting taken down and raged out by Fluffy. But obviously, I was wrong because what did he do when his back was towards the cage? Strickland is not known for his footwork. He's terrible, like he kind of just plots forward, he's very lethargic with his with his footwork for lack of a better term. And then, but as soon as his back was anywhere near that warning track, he was he actually used great lateral footwork to get his way off the cage, his back off the cage. Right, right. So if Strickland could do it, you would think Max Holloway could do it. Um and uh that wasn't the case.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and the fact that he gave his back, because in the first round, I think those were the most uneasy moments for Max where it was like I was like, he did a good job. The first scramble, he didn't give his back. He was like about to, and then he turned towards him. And I'm watching the fight with my wife, and I'm like kind of like talking her through. I was just like, he just can't give his back. Yeah, because if you give your back, it's over. Ask Gagey, ask Poirier, whatever. And then he did, and he was still able to fight through it.
SPEAKER_02And the other thing in the back of my mind was okay, listen, he got taken down, he got dominated the first round, same thing the second round, but what's gonna happen in the third round? Is he gonna have that energy? Because we've seen Charles fade in the past, and all of and Max just gets better and better. So I expected at some point Max was gonna stop one or two takedowns, right? Then then Charles is stuck on his feet, you know, and he's and he's getting picked apart by Max, you know, and Charles really showed no ounce of being tired, like no zero.
SPEAKER_00He did the same thing to Michael Chandler a couple of years ago, or when was it? Madison Square Garden. I guess it wasn't last November, it was the year before. Where he just like you just controlled him.
SPEAKER_02No, that went all five. It went all five.
SPEAKER_00In the fifth round when Chandler was slamming him on his back and like getting up and whatever, and Charles just like backpacked him. Yeah. What did Charles say to you afterwards? Because you hosted the podcast with Mackenzie and Heli. Uh, what was it? It's called after last fight. About last fight. About last fight. What did Charles say to you guys that stuck out?
SPEAKER_02Um I just what it wasn't really what he said, it's what I gathered from about his mindset. He is, he's got a championship mindset. Um he because what I asked him was everyone, I mean, he was a huge betting on the dog. And and a lot of fighters, me included, analysts, you know, the footwork, the speed, the boxing, the takedown defense, the experience of Max Holloway was gonna be too much. And I asked him, like, how did that play in his head going to that fight? What did he did you agree? Like, you know, this is gonna be tough, or did you just think these guys have it wrong? Like they have no idea, they forget how good I really am, you know. And he just said that he doesn't really pay attention, you know, to any of that stuff. He just stays in the gym, he just keeps training, keeps training. He can't wait, he couldn't wait to get back home and start training again. And which leads me to probably with the next topic, so I'm probably come going ahead a little bit.
SPEAKER_00Go ahead, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02The BMF. You know, like what does the BMF mean? And um he the problem is you you we have two title champ, we have two champions in the BMF. When you have two champions in the BMF, uh-huh, it's a different mindset than when you have like a Jorge Masvidal, no disrespect, or a Nate Diaz fighting. Those guys aren't championship level guys. Got it.
SPEAKER_00Guys, so like yeah, like Mas Fidel and Diaz never won a UFC championship.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00But Charles and Max have held gold. Yeah. So you're saying it's different because of that.
SPEAKER_02Some yeah, I think they're not the guys who are just gonna be standing and banging, you know, for five rounds and you I take one, you take one. They're they're tough as hell, they're gonna bring it every fight, like we know they do. But they're also gonna always find the way to win. The best way to win. And for this one ended up being in a lot of people's eyes, boring because Charles Oliveira figured out that he had such a he was just so much more dominant in that clinch position, really. Right, right. And knew he was gonna be dominant on the dominant floor. But the I think the question probably in his head, was I gonna be able to get him to the floor? If not, I have to be able to be able to stand with Max, you know, and try to hurt him on the feet. Uh but once he locked his hands on that first clinch, I think he knew, oh, this is this is the answer, this is where I have him.
SPEAKER_00That's an interesting perspective that when champions fight for the BMF, it's different. And you know what? You're right. Like, everyone remembers Holloway knocking out Gagey with one second left. They don't remember the 24 minutes before that. The 24 minutes and 50 seconds before that, right? Like, yeah, that was Max on the outside. Um like go ahead. What do you need?
SPEAKER_02I have a note under my door with that says need key. I see a finger. I see a finger under hang on one second. Go ahead, go ahead. This I wish I could film this. I got a note under my door.
SPEAKER_00This is podcasting from home. This is the hundred percent. We don't get this in studio. I'm I'm a ticking time bomb in term for when that door opens and my three-year-old pokes his mother.
SPEAKER_02My 13-year-old just came home from uh school sick, so I went and got him. I was about to be home, then they got the call. Go pick up CJ. They go to the same school, pick him up. I come home, I'm on here with you. My wife just got a call from the school again. My 10-year-old has a headache.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02In my head, I think he found out his older brother went home from school from school sick, and that would be sick. That had to have been what happened, right? Someone probably asked him, hey, is your brother okay? And he's like, What's wrong with him? He just left school. I have a headache too. You know, like that's that's exactly I think something's going around. I don't trust any of it. Oh, I'm sorry. But we were talking eloquently. We were in a serious discussion, Chris.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm sorry. I was talking about how, like, you're right, when the BMF belt has been fought between champions or people that have fought for gold or have held gold, it's been a different fight.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's been a different fight, there's different attitudes, there's different mindsets, and they do the best thing to win. And that's what we saw. Just in the same way that Max won his BMF belt. He didn't take stupid chances against Poirier, he didn't take stupid chances against uh Gagey until the final 10 seconds. Yes. And like, and he had the moment, and against Poirier, there was uh some back and forth. Like that was a good fight, especially at certain points. Max control strikers. To your point, like that's true. When it was Masodel and Diaz, it was a bit different.
SPEAKER_02And I think like Diaz and Masodell, maybe a little less for Masterdell, but like the BMF was their world championship. Like they that was awesome for them, that was the title that they were going to fight for. It wasn't because they really thought they lost a fight. They thought, you know, time ran out, the referee, they let they the guy just held on to me, you know, whatever. So for them, it I mean, for them, it really made sense. Um with like Charles Oliveira, he loves having the BMF, it's awesome for him, but his goal is to get that championship belt back bad. He's in the gym right now training, not to defend his BMF, but to figure out a way to get Taporea back or Gagey if he ends up, you know, like that's where his mind is. It's just a different mind thing. It's not just to put on a fight for the fans.
SPEAKER_00Do you think that the BMF thing will change then? Do you think like so Charles has it? I've seen some people already have the opinion like they're probably not gonna let him defend it because of how he won it, or what I don't know. Like, what do you think in terms of the BMF belt as a prize?
SPEAKER_02Uh I mean, I like it. I mean, if we if we all really like it, then we gotta have one per weight class, I guess. Or everyone. No, no, no, no, no. That's one why are we doing 150? Why do we have 55?
SPEAKER_00I like that it's one. It was 170. Yeah. It took a couple years off, and they said, you know what? Gachi and Poirier would be perfect for this. And the thing about it, in my opinion, at 155, there are more big stars than there are title fights available for them, right? Or they have fought for the title, it didn't go their way, but they're still giant stars, they're still headlining fighters. Uh, in the pay-per-view area, they could sell pay-per-views now, they can carry a numbered event, just like Charles and Max could absolutely carry the numbered event. That was a big deal for Paramount Plus, for CBS, all of it. Um and 155 has the longest list of names that can do that. Yeah, because Connor could fight for the BMW.
SPEAKER_02It's older guys that have been around for a while that fought either Connor or some who who fought Connor or someone with big names, and they had some fun fights, and now people want to see him fight regardless if it's for the belt, right? So you could create a BMF belt. That's I think how it all originated. Um I I think for a BMF, you need like I love like Nate Diaz and Hory Master that was perfect. Right. I I want to see a little gangsterness. I want to see, I want to see like a little hood from one of these guys and who don't give a crap, you know, um fight. Like Fluffy comes in mind. He's not a he's not a guy a lot of people would think as a as a BMF when it comes to like standing and just trying to knock people out. But his attitude when you talk to him off camera, like he's he's got that hood in him. He's came from nothing.
SPEAKER_00He looks like a no-frills like I will fight. A no frills.
SPEAKER_02Chris Wideman can't get it done.
SPEAKER_00You know, like I you know, I had you're too much what you're saying is less athlete, more fighter.
SPEAKER_02You need yes, more athlete, more fighter, less athlete. For sure. Um athlete. You know, they're just uh it's it it needs to be it needs to be like two guys that we know aren't going to be fine for the belt. They're not they're just not there, but they're so fun to watch, and everybody loves them. Yeah. You know, and they have a little hood.
SPEAKER_00So you have to find a guy who is a big star to carry an event like that that's not necessarily in contention right now or will be anymore the title. Like a fight. Michael D Fun. Michael Chandler. He's just not hood enough. He's not hood enough for you.
SPEAKER_02He's not hood enough for me, but yes, he is. He fights like a BMF.
SPEAKER_00I'll tell you, I'll tell you, like even like Saint Denis. Ben Wilson, I've thought, is like in line between yes or no.
SPEAKER_02I would I wouldn't I would let him slide only because it's a freaking special forces. Right, right, right. You know, like he's he's a badass.
SPEAKER_00So here's the thought for for me.
SPEAKER_02I don't like to see guys polished. I think I'm just ruined by Nate Diaz and Mass Venette.
SPEAKER_00I see it like And not like super polished polished more polished is kind of goes against what the BMF stands for.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Like everyone had to make a decision at some point. Like if you grew up in a tougher neighborhood, like I grew up in a decently tougher neighborhood. At some point I had to make the decision, all right, do I want to be successful or not? And so I changed my language, I try to talk better. You know, not that I'm there and I'm I'm done caring. But I'm just saying, like, you wanted to I wanted to be a good human being. I'm not saying people who talk like that are not good human beings, but I just remember consciously making the decision. What was it that made you make that decision, by the way? Well, it was the kids I was hanging out with. The kids, you know, that I was hanging out with started, you know, selling drugs and doing drugs and still they're always stealing bikes and stuff, and I'd be with them and I'm like, it was sports. Well, look at me, I'm wearing a freaking jacket, house to wrestling. But it's it's sports. So in middle school, uh going into high school is kind of when I made that change. I got into a sports, so then I'm around athletes that are trying to like, you know, they're trying to do better in school. They're trying to, you know, they have a passion for sports and they're trying to stay on the right track.
SPEAKER_00If you mess around, you get in trouble, then you can't play.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00You can't play football.
SPEAKER_02So that changed my that change, that's what helped change me in the right direction. But everybody figures out on their own.
SPEAKER_00Last thing I'll say about the BMF and what I thought about, which kind of goes against your um kind of champion or people gunning for championships. You know who the guy is? It's like the the kid who's in trouble is Armand Sarukion. Like he's in trouble. Like he's he's messing around, he's doing things he shouldn't be doing. And like, doesn't that kind of symbolize how the BMF started, right? Like Nate Diaz, the antagonist, right? Mast Vidal was the street guy, and it's like Armand Sarukion's the guy who's making the bad decisions, headbutting Dan Hooker at their at their stare down, uh getting into extracurricular at this wrestling thing or whatever. Now, I don't think they'll reward it, but generally speaking, in the fight game, we reward bad behavior. Is that not true?
SPEAKER_02He he wore handcuffs, I think, to the fights, right? I saw that.
SPEAKER_00He wore handcuffs to the fights. Um like he's being held out like he's his star is becoming bigger because of it.
SPEAKER_02Whoever his management team is, they're doing a great job. All the different shows and podcasts that he's been on. He was on my algorithm for like a month.
SPEAKER_00He's becoming a bigger star because of his lack of being booked for the title fight or for the big fights. More people. People are getting on his side. It's like when Joe Rogan was in that fluff with CNN and the pandemic and the whatever, and they were like trying to cancel him, and it was amazing for his show. And so it's like when when things like that happen, that is good for you as a fighter. That's attention. That's attention that's very tough to get by just competing in a fight. You know? And so like Armand to me. So you do Armand versus Well, Armand Charles, I saw Armand Charles in a main event because they fought recently and Armand won, and it actually wasn't that compelling of a fight if I remember correctly. Like it was just again, it was a lot of ground, it was a lot, it was like, oh, these two guys are like amazing, and this will produce the next title challenger and whatever. And it was just like, uh, I mean, Armand won, but it wasn't like edge of your seat type of win. Yeah. Um, but it was three rounds, so now it's just like, well, put him five rounds, put him as a headliner, and then uh whether you attach the BMF belt to that or not, but it's one of those things Armon is making these behavioral bad decisions outside of fighting.
SPEAKER_02I wouldn't be mad I wouldn't be mad at it. I could be sold on that. I just I just don't know if that fight ends up being looking forward.
SPEAKER_00You know, I don't know if well John Morgan asked Dana White after Is there an unwritten rule that you should kind of stand and bang and take some more chances, fight a little bit more recklessly? And uh Dana kind of didn't agree with it, right? He was like, oh, you know, uh Charles won the fight. He figured out how to win and he was able to expose it and he was able to win. But I was upset that he didn't point, he let him up and point to the ground for with five seconds left. After all that control time, he said, Alright, let's point to the ground. I'm there to bang.
SPEAKER_02I asked him about that. Do that with 15. What did he say? I asked him about that, and I and I was like, Did you have in the back of your head that you're gonna do that the whole time? And he and he said no. I thought he definitely did on purpose because out of nowhere with 10 seconds left is the first time Max Holloway gets back up to his feet.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02He had to have been slowly deciding to let him up, even though he said he didn't. And then I go, but you pointed down. He goes, but he he said it first, like Max, I guess, gestured like let's let's fight, and right, and then Charles did it, but there was only maybe five seconds. Yeah, it wasn't enough time. No, but he did do it, he did point down, even though he didn't, and he's up even though he didn't have to, he was up five rounds, you know. Max is very tough in the in that in that position. Like, even so. Oh, he's he's like mastered how good how good he is. You think like it I don't care how tough you are, but just the the haymakers moving your head, connecting in that those wild exchanges. I mean, we've seen him with Gagey, obviously, but we've seen him there with um who's the other guy that kickboxing dude from years ago that he pointed down against Ricardo Lamas, right? Lamas, yeah. Like he he connects in there, man. He's accurate in those wild exchanges. Like Dustin, he's a fucking tough mother effer. And he backed out, he you know, he backed out of that and went to a takedown with 10 seconds left because he just felt you feel uncomfortable. Look how behind Gecy was on those exchanges. Yeah, exactly. Like for every like three or four Max Holloway monster swings, Gagey maybe was trying to get you know, landing maybe one, he was completely missing. So he's he's extra dangerous there.
SPEAKER_00There's no clear-cut BMF what's next. Sarukian has been acting like the um child that needs to be disciplined.
SPEAKER_02But I don't know if Sarukian, I don't know if Sarukian could actually I don't know if he would fight for a BMF. I don't know if he I think he just really wants to wait for the title shot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I mean, who knows? I mean it honestly that's kind of metaphorically speaking, in terms of the behavior that belies a BMF candidate, is Armand Sarukian, but I don't think that that's necessarily what's gonna happen. Um there's no clear what's next though for for like Charles for the BMF or like I don't know. You don't come out of that being like, oh man, the BMF belt is still something, I can't wait for the next one, whatever, which unfortunately it's just too bad. It's just an opportunity loss. Like I said, it was a big deal for Paramount, it was a big deal for CBS Sports, it's a big deal for the UFC, and then it just didn't pan out with like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that happened. I can't miss one of these events going forward. You know, I can't I don't think I can argue with that. Yeah. Uh any other takeaways from the weekend? I will get into the White House thing in just a minute, but as far as fight-wise, like you talked to Gregory Rodriguez after Kyle.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I'll tell you what, I was super impressed. What was what's that kid's name? Um is Alberto Montez. Yeah, Montez. That guy, Ricky Tercios is I don't know if I'm saying his name right, but yeah, he is he is not, he's not, I'm not saying he's great, he's not super athletic, but he's so awkward and very tough. Not a guy, not a guy that you want to go into a fight against. And he's tough to get out of there. It's it's tough tough to get out of there. It's it's hard to make it look pretty. You know, sometimes when you have a really awkward fighter, you really want to show everybody how good you are, you want to show to yourself too. And a guy like that will just kind of stifle the prettiness of how good you are because they're just so awkward and they do things differently than everybody else. He came out looking like he looked like Ilya Tapore on the feet to me. Like I'm not saying that's good, but his his uh balance on the feet with boxing, the way he squats into a stance and and has balance at all times on the feet, and then his jujitsu game off the charts, you know, that anaconda choke, which he kind of I guess spoke about in the fighter meeting was he's just very confident with it. You know, he's he's he's a very dangerous guy. So that kid really sticks out to me as a a star in the future. Um obviously Gregory Rodriguez, you know, coming back after being knocked out in the first round by by Bruno Ferreja. Yeah, um, for him to be able to come out and knock him out was a crazy knockout. Dober, you know, losing the first round. That was a great that was a great guy.
SPEAKER_00Just talking about Drew Dober with somebody earlier today, and I said, maybe give Drew Dober a shot with the BMF. I mean, for God's sake. Now I don't know if him and Oliveira, right? Olivera has clear grappling advantages and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02I'm way ahead of him in the ranking.
SPEAKER_00But like to your point earlier, like the BMF title, like Drew Dober would be so honored to be fighting for something like that. Do you think he would go out there and swing like crazy?
SPEAKER_02Who do you put against each other? I don't know. But like Michael Chandler and Drew Dober. But like Chandler's, but he's not fighting for the title anytime soon. Yeah. Give him a BMF opportunity. The guy had waited forever for uh Connor. You'd need it.
SPEAKER_00You need a side that can main event and carry a numbered card if they make it a numbered card, right? It's it's kind of a different set of circumstances under Paramount that it's not behind a paywall. So whatever they wanted to do. But like, yeah, Dober Chandler is like that type of matchup that you're talking about, where it's like UFC championship, probably not in their future before it's all said and done. But man, wouldn't they be honored and like give the fans a show?
SPEAKER_02They both look like Fight in America, they both look almost identical. Yeah, you know. Yeah, that would be pretty funny.
SPEAKER_00They're actually a little too um they they fight like BMFs, but in terms of like they're like Drew's too nice to fight for you wouldn't think they're BMFs. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02They fight like BMFs, they're not they fight like BMFs in the category of gangsters like I like to see, but I take it because they are gonna swing for the fences every time.
SPEAKER_00In fight gangster is the prerequisite number one. Yes. In fight gangster behavior. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Which if we could get gangster outside of the cage, Connor could fight for a BMF too, right? Like Connor's not close to fighting for who knows what you're doing. If you have any record, you know, at all, you're allowed to fight for the BMF. As long as you fight like a BMF in the cage.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. Record meaning criminal record.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So good job, Drew Dober. Well, oh my gosh. Yeah. So he's got a lot of records. Yeah, yeah. Drew Dober. Me street cred. Uh, I think it was his 11th lightweight UFC knockout, all-time leader. Like you can market that. And guys been in fight of the night, performance of the nights. Yeah, really does it.
SPEAKER_02He's underappreciated every time. Underappreciated. Because you don't, if you don't do it in the big fights, you know, with the big names, if you're not like look at the Dustin Poiriers of the world, even like Mashedell, um uh Chandler. Like, how did these guys get so big? How do all these guys, how does everybody know them and love them so much?
SPEAKER_00Patty the batty, same thing. Like when Patty entered the UFC, he was a giant star. It's just like my he's a bigger star than the guy who has like eight UFC knockouts type of thing.
SPEAKER_02Well, he talks a lot. I guess Chandler does too. Chandler, Chandler, like the post-fight interview after he beat Hooker in his debut. That's what's going on. Amazing at that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but he already had like more than a million Instagram followers. He was already a giant. Michael Chandler, I believe, had when he was in Bellator coming over?
SPEAKER_02Yes. Oh, he was already big like that?
SPEAKER_00He was already big like that.
SPEAKER_02Because he does a great job with fitness. So anybody who's into fitness online, they're like, oh, yeah. He makes you feel bad.
SPEAKER_00He gives you the goal body that you're never gonna have. Yes, he's always incredible. I was just like, but man, I'll see you at the top otherwise.
SPEAKER_02Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Um there was something else I wanted to say about like like the dopers of the world and the BMF and uh how you're talking. Well, do you agree with this statement? So like you're like you're talking about Masodal, how he got so big, and Nate Diaz, they got the biggest at the end. Okay. And I'm wondering from your perspective, because you achieved great success, UFC champion, and then you had a path down, right, where you're no longer fighting for championships, but you're still a big name, you're still in main events for a while, and people paid attention to whenever you fought, and then obviously the comeback from your leg injury. Um I was listening to an audiobook uh written by Tom Petty's lead guitarist. And he was talking about wait for it, but he was talking about like the drummer was pissed off when Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers are just starting because they're like, Tom's getting a disproportionate amount of money, we're a band, we're all in this together, whatever. And the manager, the record manager guy, was just like, you make 90% of your money on the way down. Like, you guys are popular right now, enjoy that. You'll climb, and if you can stick it together, you make 90% of your money on the way down when you're not really that popular anymore.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Is that something with fighters?
SPEAKER_02Like, did you make it work with me, like you said? That didn't work on my way down. I definitely didn't make as much money as I did on my way up because um I was or like when you're at the top, is like obviously you're making a lot of money. On the way down for me, I'm making way more money than I ever thought I would even make in my life, you know, prior to fighting, but it was way less than I was used to making. But I was also losing just too many, I was losing too many fights. When you you have to win, right, you have to win at some point, you know.
SPEAKER_00Winning solves it all, right? Of course.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, winning is everything's winning, winning's the number one prerequ prerequisite to becoming a star. You know, so like we got a lot of guys who seem like they're oh man, this guy's talking like he's kind of McGregor. He's he's you know one and oh, you know, right now. Yeah. And they start focusing on their personality a little bit too much, and they stop winning. It doesn't matter, nobody cares about how awesome your personality is anymore.
SPEAKER_00Well, personality, unless you're really gonna go over the top with it, is not gonna get you paid. It'll get you noticed, and maybe it gets you a lot more sponsorships, obviously. Like it can get you paid in some of that, but if you don't follow through with results, then people will they'll get tired, they'll they'll tire of your personality.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they'll yeah, it's just like a joke at that point. And it doesn't matter. Look at Josh Hokett. That kid's that kid is he's talking the talk and he's yeah walking the walk. He looked great in his last fight. Maybe he's not the best guys yet, but now he's fighting Curtis Blades.
SPEAKER_00Dude, I thought but I mean, I I should have vocalized this in specific terms, but like before Josh Hokett fought on the first Paramount card, I said the biggest early beneficiary of the Paramount really leaning into a cinematic, kind of marketing, kind of uh character-driven storyline beyond just ESPN looking at it as the sport and the competition of it. I said Josh Hokett's gonna benefit more than anybody else. Certainly on this first event, Josh Hokett's gonna be we'll remember if he wins and does what he does, then we'll remember it. And like that's more than you can say. Because the other night, like I kind of remember all the results if I really like go through it, but I gotta look them all up. But it's like you remember the specific moments, and Josh Hokett is good at number one winning the fight, but then having a moment that you remember. Yeah, even if it's cringy and you hate it, you remember it. Yeah, that's like that's such a big thing.
SPEAKER_02How many guys are we talking about that early in their career right now? Right. Other than him.
SPEAKER_00And that's kind of the example for Masvidal and Chandler, like you were saying, is like, how did these guys get so big compared to Drew Dober? It's because they have moments that you remember very specifically.
SPEAKER_02Flying knockout over Askren is really hatred before that fight. Everyone thought that Askren's gonna run right through him, take him down. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And they had dinner the other night. Did you see that on Ask? I saw that's super cool.
SPEAKER_02I love that. That was awesome. Yeah, that was awesome. I love that they did that.
SPEAKER_00Well, and you and Anderson Silver are gonna hang out pretty soon too.
SPEAKER_02Maybe in the boxing ring.
SPEAKER_00I know.
SPEAKER_02Who knows? But uh yeah, I got i i i it's funny how that works. Yeah, I had him on my podcast, my first episode when I started my podcast after I broke my leg. There's just a talk about uh the recovery and everything and like what that's like, and now being on the other side of it. It was it was a cool experience, and uh we stayed in touch over the years now since that. But it is cool when your old rivals kind of you be kind of just let things go, let your ego go, and actually just see him as a regular human being and yeah, and kind of create the friendship.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Let's move on to this White House card because really I guess the thing that we're gonna talk about more than anything else that happened on Saturday night was the announcement of Freedom 250. Yeah, let me pull up Tapuria versus Gecy at the White House. Uh finally we get it. It was um fraught with rumors of who's gonna fight and what's gonna happen. Then on Friday, Dana says a fight just fell out. Everybody goes detective mode and looks at when Hunter was talking to Sean and Mick on the stage at ceremonial wings and saying, Oh my gosh, here's their reaction. Which Dana then says that's not what happened, that the fight fell out after that interaction that they had had. Uh there's also a report, because Dana spoke yesterday after the boxing event that was in Las Vegas, that it was going to be Makach versus Tapuria, but it's Makachev that fell out. Dana said that's BS. Not preach. I don't know. I don't know what happened. I could go.
SPEAKER_02I could I could give you my opinion.
SPEAKER_00I mean, people are saying John Jones was obviously the fight that fell out. Yes. Now the rumors are swirling that Mikachev was the fight that fell out against Tapuria, which I don't think that they would have made Topuria versus Mikachev as the main event on the White House lawn. I do think that the fact but apparently Gachy wasn't involved, and then Gachy was involved, and I think Dana said that it wasn't supposed to be to Toporia versus Gachy, either of them.
SPEAKER_02Well, how about this? Let's say it is But the problem is this.
SPEAKER_00So let's just say Even if we knew we can't spread the word. We can't be the ones that say it, right? We'd get in trouble. But I don't know. I don't know either. You don't know.
SPEAKER_02This is all speculation.
SPEAKER_00From what I can understand, I was texting people. I was at home over the weekend. I wasn't in Vegas. I was texting one of our producers. I said, when are they gonna announce the White House card? And he was said, he said, I don't even know. Like I said, when within the show are they gonna announce it? He said, I don't even know everyone's being so secretive. So that's even like a high-ranking producer who was working in Las Vegas that weekend and he didn't know where in the show uh I was with uh at least as a Craig Dorsari. Is that his name? Yep. Who's like the head? He's like your boss other than Dana. So yes, he's the name.
SPEAKER_02I was talking to him and I wasn't I don't like I'm never gonna put someone in a position for for them to say something that they feel uncomfortable with. Right. But he ba he wasn't saying anything. He and he was basically saying, you know, a lot of crap has gone on in the last 24 hours. Wow. Yeah. Like I mean, I'm sure the story will come out at some point. But um So are are you happy with it?
SPEAKER_00Because I was surprised at the amount of uh online comment bully hate. If you want to call it hate. It hasn't been hate, but people have been saying mid, as the kids would say, or underwhelming. But I'm not underwhelmed, and I'm not mid. I think I think it's pretty awesome, honestly.
SPEAKER_02It's it's a little confusing, you know. Like it's not what I expected. I I didn't know if it was gonna be all Americans, you know, against a foreigner. We have we have a couple fights.
SPEAKER_00Which other than Pereira, Pereira versus Gone, there's no American in there. But other than that, it is an American versus a non-American.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So the Colt Main event is the only one that's not American versus another uh someone from a different country. Um I'm just like everybody else. I I thought the rumors of I thought Connor McGregor was definitely gonna be on the card. I thought John Jones was definitely gonna be on the card. Obviously, I'm completely crazy. Maybe it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_00Now, why but let me ask you, why did you think that? Because it seemed like it was trending away from Connor being at the White House. I didn't like it. I thought they were completely and then Dana repeatedly said Jones isn't fighting at the White House.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I just didn't know. Did you just think they were pulling a fashion? Yeah, trying to work out the money and they're and they're playing the game.
SPEAKER_00Obviously, you can't always take things at face value when there's negotiations going on or announcements going on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm not looking at anybody like they're wrong for saying something because there's negotiations. It's like, you know, the president saying, you know, what we're gonna about to do to Iran, that's gonna happen tomorrow. You can't say that today, you know, because it's gonna mess up tomorrow. So you have to be careful your you know, your per the public perception, and I think UFC's really smart with that, how they uh deal with negotiations using the public as kind of a tool sometimes. Um but yeah, so I I thought, you know, I thought it was. I thought it was Jones Pereira, right? And then Connor, I don't know who you're gonna put him against because I knew Chandler was all I didn't I knew that was wasn't happening, I believe I heard rumors of him against Protez, Carlos Protez, you know, Connor versus Protestant, right? Right, but um yeah, and like Hoofy against Chandler. I'm just looking at the card now, so now I'm I'm scattering. But Hoofy versus Chandler, like that's a tough fight for Chandler. So you got an American going out there against a really fucking tough guy. But everyone loves Chandler, even after losses, anyway. He's lost a lot, you know.
SPEAKER_00Of course, right. I'm surprised, I'm happy for Chandler because I knew that he desperately wanted to fight on it. He's the perfect candidate to fight on something like that. He like fighting with the American flag really means something to Chandler.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So I like that.
SPEAKER_00So I'm happy for him on that. Um, but I was surprised that he was gonna be on it because like you was just like, well, Connor's not fighting Chandler. Yeah. And so I was just like, oh, that's too bad for Chandler, he's not gonna fight at the White House, and now it's just like, well, Connor's not gonna fight at the White House. Yeah, yeah. Um which those rumors started happening, and I really did start to believe that Connor wasn't gonna fight at the White House.
SPEAKER_02And did you think John Jones was gonna fight at the White House?
SPEAKER_00I no, I I I I never bought into it. I wouldn't have been seeing forever streaming. Put it this way, put it this way. If John Jones pops up on this screen, I'm looking at like the the screenshot. If John Jones popped up on that screen, I would have been like shocked. Like I would have been, oh my god, they got him. I can't believe it. That that to me was my mindset when they revealed the card. Um, and we kind of already knew it was Pereira versus Gone because of that feature that ran right before it. But if they popped, if we didn't know that, whatever, and then they popped up that card and it said Jones versus Pereira, I would have been like, oh my god, they got him. I can't believe they made like excited for the fight. I would have been super happy and excited for it, but it would have been like of shock of like, wow, I can't believe they actually made it happen. Pereira versus gone. I'm just like, yep, there you go, Pereira versus Gone. That's an interesting fight. It makes sense.
SPEAKER_02The Bo Nickel vs. Dachus fight is a little weird.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and so I can't release insight. Uh so the first thing I have a video of this, and I was gonna put it on Instagram. I had video showing the screen of when they revealed the cart, and you can hear my reaction to it sitting on the couch. And I the first name I said out loud, I go, Kyle Dawkus. Because I'm so excited, Chris, for Kyle Dawkus, Steve Garcia, and Eamon Zahabi specifically. I know Zahabi's not American, but like guys that like you know fighter stories, right? They can't all be Chris Widemans who knocked out Anderson Silva, Cinderella's story was undefeated, he was the champion, he was a huge underdog. Oh my gosh. You had the story with your leg injury, and you came back from it, and like you were a big deal, and Michael Chandler's a big deal, and Justin Gagey has become a big deal, Ilya Tipuri is a big deal. But aren't you so satisfied, kind of like we were saying with Drew Dober, aren't you so satisfied that guys that try and train and hope just as hard to achieve fight game greatness like Kyle Dawkis, like Steve Garcia, like Eamon's a hobby, get to fight on this occasion.
SPEAKER_02100%. Like I'm always happy for people with big things.
SPEAKER_00Like I'm just so happy for guys like that. And then for Garcia, like he's been in main events, he's on a crazy winning streak, finished streak, like he deserves to be a star for how he fights.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so, like, great, this will help launch him if he beats Diego Lopez, he's but he gets what a spotlight he gets. Now he gets the platform that he's been looking for. Kyle Dawkus was cut from the UFC and like, you know, married and expecting his first baby, and it's just like I remember seeing him online, and I'm just like, man, Kyle Dawkus, man, he's still chasing the dream. Like, he's still fighting at CFFC. That's a huge pay cut. He's still like hoping that he gets back to the UFC and makes some noise, and then he gets back and he finishes Michelle Pereira in Shanghai, he finishes his opponent, I can't remember off the top of my head, in Madison Square Garden, and now all of a sudden he's on the White House and he's fighting a guy like Bo Nickel.
SPEAKER_02Gerald Murershard.
SPEAKER_00Gerald Murchard. And so, like, isn't that amazing for a guy like Kyle Dawkins, a Philly kid who just didn't quit on himself, keeps trying hard, and now he gets to play at the White House. Okay, so we're gonna talk more about the stars. But I've seen it, that was my My first reaction was just like these guys who grind just as hard who aren't as big a names.
SPEAKER_02I'm so happy that I love that you're happy because we need people like you to be happy for guys like that for sure. So I they appreciate it and I appreciate it. But does can Dawkins make it competitive with Bo Nickel? Or is Bo Nickel just running through everyone's like we don't we still don't know about Bo Nickel? They gone a can.
SPEAKER_00I no, I I think Dawkins is a tougher matchup than Hadolfo Vieira. Um and like the other tough matchup that Bo Nickel has had. He's not really like Hadolfo Vieira is like expert jujitsu like standout, but he's getting older, number one. And then number two, like he really has never been like, oh my god, look out, he can throw punches and he's got great jujitsu. It's been like he's jacked, he's super jacked, he's amazing at jujitsu, he's got all like the jujitsu records and credentials and stuff, but like Fluffy withstood the early storm and then he came back against him when Hodolfo gassed. Yeah. So like I think Dawkins is a bigger test than Hadolfo Vieira was against Bo Nickel. And then the other big test for Bo Nickel, he got knocked out in the second round by RDR. So like with Bo Nickel, the jury is still out. I like Bo. People think that when I said say hello to a real contender last year about Ryanier De Ritter, that I was like hating on Bo. I was just like, and some people are just like, thank you for that. And I was just like, dude, I'm just calling the fight, like just encapsulating the moment for De Ritter, really celebrating the contender that he became with that performance.
SPEAKER_02You know, he deserved it. He looked amazing.
SPEAKER_00But um but I still like Bo, and I still think you know his ceiling is super high. And love him or hate him, that's why he's on people are like, why is he always on these big cards? Just like because people want to see how good he is, number one. People that hate on him, that's a reaction. It's it's like the Howard Stern thing. If you love him, you listen. If you hate him, you still listen.
SPEAKER_02He's um, you know, we very similar. We came from back similar backgrounds. He was way more decorative a wrestler than me.
SPEAKER_00Right, but college wrestler too.
SPEAKER_02College wrestler coming up, you know, and um and with the same weight class. So, you know, there was a lot of comparisons between me and him. And with me being compared to any wrestler or anybody, you just the game, the fight game is just so tough. You never know. Like Aaron Pico, one of the best wrestlers coming out of high school, goes straight to fighting because he was an amateur boxing champion, golden glove champion, as well, on top of being one of the best wrestlers in the whole country, if not the world, and he gets knocked out in his first fight because you just never know anything could happen in there, and then you don't know how people deal with it, you know, afterwards and come back from losses and stuff, and it's not as clean cut as wrestling is. Um, but I will say there's that that kid is special, and the reason why the the biggest takeaway I've ever got from him is not in any of his fights, not in his wrestling matches. It was a grappling match that he would he did with are you talking about Pico or Nickel? This is I'm sorry, Bo Nickel. Yeah, okay. We're back to Bo Nickel. Yeah, so take away his fights, take away his NCAA career that I followed a lot and watched, yeah. Big fan of his his wrestling skills. But what I was most impressed with with Bo Nickel is in a jujitsu match with Gordon Ryan, one of the greatest of all time in jujitsu, he ended up getting submitted in it. But for me as an athlete and as a guy who's been around the black for a while, I've seen athleticism in him that you don't see come around very often. There was a position where Bo Nickel threw up for uh sorry, Gordon Ryan threw up for a triangle choke and Bo was on his knees, and the speed and strength, without really exerting or trying to like win a competition of doing of in the in this uh doing this movement, from his knees to his feet, the speed that it took for him to get from his knees to his feet was like cat-like, and it was like this he's a he's a special athlete, like so instinctive, instinctive, strong, just healthy knees, things like that. I notice like he's he's he's a really he's a really high level athlete for sure.
SPEAKER_00And um like he doesn't get the credit for as athletic as he is, even now. Like he's not big and strong. Well, because white fans don't know he looks small for the weight. Even me, I have to buy into what you're saying, and I I've learned that to like really listen to guys like you, Dean Thomas, DC, like you guys speak in certain ways about certain fighters where it's like, okay, like I what I don't see it yet because I'm a layman, right? Like, I don't train, I have I wasn't a wrestler, like I didn't box, all that stuff. And so like I remember uh you're saying this, you're speaking about Bo Nickel the way that Dean Thomas used to speak about Ilya Toporia on his way up, where I'm just like, man, he's good, but like I don't know how good he is. And Dean's like, he's freaking good, dude. Like he's real good, real good. And um Dean would also say the same thing about Jack Dell and Madalena, just like this kid's good, and he couldn't a lot of times you couldn't tell how good they were, even though they're winning. You always take into account like who they're fighting, is this person really that like they might not be in the UFC that long, so he won in the first round, but he kind of should have done that. So, like, we'll see. And some people know what to look for where they're just like, No, I already know that.
SPEAKER_02And I'm not saying he's gonna be world champion, he could be though. I think he has the potential to be, but um, because you never know what happens in there, you know, it's a long 15-25 minutes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think a lot of fight fans that aren't as experienced as you in terms of wrestling training, being in the fight world, are underwhelmed by Bo Nickel. And you're saying I have more respect than what he's shown because of what I know he can do.
SPEAKER_02I just I yeah, I know he he definitely has high potential, and I think he's very mature mentally. You know, he he does have a championship mindset. He knows heading into fights, and yeah, he he takes it, he learned a lot from Kale Sanderson, who I think is one of the greatest wrestlers ever. Um keeping things playful and just going out there and having fun. He's very inquisitive. I remember the first time I met him, and uh it was me in DC. He and we were on the show. This is his first UFC fight, we're doing the weigh-in show, and it's right right after his first weigh-in in the UFC. And so we're asking him questions, and before we're I think it was before our first question, he goes, Before you guys ask me a question, can I ask you guys a question? And he asked us like how we dealt with the nerves and stuff and everything before a fight versus having Was this on the air he did that? Yeah, that's cool, as opposed to like a wrestling match. Right, right. And uh so we got to, you know, he put us right into helping him. It wasn't like he's coming and thinking he knows everything, right? He was really open-minded, and I think someone who's open-minded is a very dangerous person who doesn't think they already know it all.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02Uh, and he has that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he does he doesn't react emotionally towards the reactions to him. Yes. Which is saying a lot for somebody in their twenties. Yes.
SPEAKER_02That's he's already he's already got a lot of experience at dealing with it, especially after after that the Ritter fight. You know, he's he's got a lot of hate, you know, that's tough to deal with. You need thick skin. Yeah, you need to really know who you are and be comfortable with who you are. Um, so he's he's getting a lot of experience quick.
SPEAKER_00So White House card. I so I think it's awesome. People are like, oh, you're just saying that. Uh I think it's awesome, man. I really do. Ilya Tapuri against Justin Gagey is a wonderful matchup.
SPEAKER_02You could go down the list and I'll just throw some tidbits. Okay. But Gagey Gagey has the opportunity to shock the world.
SPEAKER_00Yes, he does. He's a big underdog. I think he's like a plus 400.
SPEAKER_02So that makes it fun. That that makes that fight fun because he's got Ilya's got him beat everywhere.
SPEAKER_00You know, like I'm figure that's gonna be a BMF style fight.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Like if you talk about stand and bang and like gangster style fight, like Gagey's not gonna go out there and be safe.
SPEAKER_02Someone's probably getting knocked out.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And so I've always said about Justin Gachy, I said he's not a household name, but he should be. Because he hasn't been, certainly like a crossover name, right? Like he never became uh Brock, Ronda, Connor. He didn't enter that stratosphere. Maybe now he is, like, even though he's probably somewhat close to the end, but based on how we beat Patty, that was awesome. Uh I'd love for Gatey to fight Connor at some point before it's all said and done. And now he gets to fight at the White House, he got to start the Paramount deals. Just like, okay, maybe he hasn't become that crossover superstar yet to those levels, but like, man, he's he's the main event, the White House. It's tough because I think you have to be a champion.
SPEAKER_02I think you have to be a the champion to cross over. Like, who has crossed over without being a champion? Right. Like Connor was a champion. Yeah, that really is probably what crossed him over. But um in the way that he won the championship. I think he's as big of a star as you could get without quote unquote, you know, saying that he's crossed over into like mainstream right, you know, doing good morning America and stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he's not on Jimmy Fallon. Yes, right. You know, but maybe he will be. Maybe he will be.
SPEAKER_02Maybe if Sentel could go on the Drew Barrymore show. Can we get C on something?
SPEAKER_00Network TV. There's a lot of crossover. Um, okay, Pereira versus Gon, the only fight not featuring an American interim title fight. Some people have an issue with Gon being rewarded essentially for the foul that he committed that keeps Tom Aspinall on the sidelines. But nonetheless, Alex Pereira has a chance to become a three-division champion.
SPEAKER_02It's a it's an intriguing fight because he's going up like against John Jones. It was it was a nightmare matchup for him in some respects, but also it was more of a chance of like being able to dominate on the feet if he can stop takedowns. Gon is just such an athletic monster. You know, he's six foot four, he moves like a cat, he's in and out, he's very hard to track down. When he does hit, it's a real big problem. Yep. Uh so that's a scary fight for Pereira to go up to heavyweight for.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. At least though you figure it's gonna be on the feet. Like Gon's probably not gonna become a wrestler. Yeah, I don't think. Although he does have submissions, but he's probably not gonna become a wrestler.
SPEAKER_02No, he's not coming up. He's he's he's gonna try to pick up, he's gonna try to pick apart uh Pereira, and Pereira's gonna have to try to walk through those shots and land some something of his own.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Here's the surprise for me, Sean O'Malley. I wasn't shocked to be on the card. And like I said before, I'm happy for Amen's a hobby, but I thought this might be the occasion we get Sean O'Malley against Corey Sandhagen, but it's O'Malley against Zahabi.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I would yes. Still a good fight.
SPEAKER_00Still a good fight. It's US versus Canada based on what we saw with hockey. Politically, there's a little intrigue there for US versus Canada.
SPEAKER_02You know, I think I think it's um it's an opportunity for O'Malley to show out. Zahabi's on like a seven-fight win streak or something, you know. Um, but he he's very well-rounded, he's experienced, but he's older. Uh, he's I think he's got to be like 36 or 37.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Zahabi's late 30s.
SPEAKER_02You know, so he's trending in a really good spot right now, older in his career. Um But O'Malley, this is like he's just very explosive, very good on the feed. Zahabi's not like super strong, very good, you know, he's not like attacking with wrestling like a mirage or anything like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh I don't think he's as explosive as the last guy O'Malley fought. What's his name? Um Songya Dong. Songya Dong. So this is an opportunity for O'Malley to become the star that I think the UFC really knows that he could become. You know, he's he's a star, but he lost his belt, you know. But this would be a resurgence.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sure. It's a obviously a big occasion, big setting to fight on for sure. Yep. Uh we talked about Huffy versus Chandler. Tough fight for Chandler. Tough fight.
SPEAKER_02Tough fight for Chandler because his Chandler. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting though, because Huffy, we've seen slow down before, right? We've seen little chinks on the armor, you know, maybe he's not he's not as tough, or you know, the heart is like almost like a trolls all over. Maybe his heart isn't in it. So he's you know, turned the tide on that in the last fight. But yeah, um, it's still gonna be something that Chandler is probably really focused on. You want to look at the negatives, right? And you want to, you know, just make those, you know, the main thing that you're trying to go after, the any type of weakness you've seen. So it's gonna be interesting. Uh yeah, but Hoofy is just such an athletic, amazing striker.
SPEAKER_00And then uh life is good for Diego Lopez, is it not? I yeah, and I I love oh, I gotta do this up story. I gotta do it. I want to bring I want to bring this up. I saw on Instagram you played blackjack with Diego Lopez. First of all, did you guys end up alright?
SPEAKER_02No, we both lost, but let me tell you, because you know I kind of play like an animal on the black table. Yeah, yeah. I know it's a tell of a big thing. If you can tell the person by the way they fight, yeah. Diego Lopez fights the way he plays blackjack the way he fights. If he loses a big, if he loses, if he decides I'm putting a thousand dollars out there, that's a big hand, um, and he loses, it's not like okay, now I'm going back to a hundred. No, I'm doing two thousand. You know, you get hit with a big shot, you just keep coming forward. He did not stop, bro. He he's a freaking savage. He was betting more than me a lot of the times. Wow. Yeah, he was going hard, and uh, we had a great time. Um it's it's just so funny. He was doing things. Where was the dude? And he was at the shoe. This was at uh Durango. It was at the Durango. So, like typically most people know, like if you have a 14 and they have a 16. If you have a four and they, you know, you have a 14 and they have a six showing. You don't hit, right? You're hoping that the guy freaking busts. Right, you know, he's supposed to bust the thing. He'd be like, hit. And then I'd be like, you know what you're doing, right? He's like, Yeah, I feel good. And then he'd like, you know, get close to a 20 or something, and then we end up all winning. I'm like, I love that you're doing that. He didn't give a crap like if he's running for the table. He knew he was just gonna do what he wants to do, and it was be aggressive. He was going in with his instinct. It was fun, it was it was cool. He's a cool dude. It was fun hanging out with him.
SPEAKER_00Diego's awesome, yeah. I really like him. I'm glad he's fighting on a big stage against Steve. That's a great fight, by the way. That's like an amazing piece of matchmaking, and I love I love that he plays blackjack like that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, he's an he's a savage. He is a savage. He was at another table and then he came over uh to play with us, and uh Heli was playing with us. I saw you know, Heli's doing the hundred dollar hands because that's the minimum, and uh, we're going nuts, and I couldn't believe him. Like this dude, uh, you better be smart with your money because he's young. Diego? Yeah, Diego, he's out of his free, he's out of his mind.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you haven't fought that long in the UFC yet. Yes, take care of it.
SPEAKER_02But he's he's not married, he's got no kids, he's got no wife. Like, I would be out of my mind if I was him. So I get where he's at. He's doing he's doing good though. He wasn't drinking or anything, he's taking his career seriously.
SPEAKER_00Hey, good. Well, we'll see him at the White House opening the card. We'll see him that's in his bank account before that. Yeah, if he spends a lot more than that.
SPEAKER_02That's one guy you don't have to worry about being a born being in a boring fight.
SPEAKER_00That's what I mean.
SPEAKER_02Like because even if it's grappling, remember his first fight. I told him it's too. I mean, I know we gotta go here soon, but um when I when I saw him fight a Vloyev on short notice and the amount of submission attempts, and just what he the confidence he had in everything he was doing, knowing he was taking the fight on like two days' notice or something. Yeah. Against now one of the best guys in that division of Vloyev, um, it it that was just a telltale sign of this guy's gonna be like a star in the making. He's he's he's unbelievable. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Last thing, we got Kevin Visheos against Josh Emmett. I just want a quick thought on Josh Emmett's 41 years old, just turned 41. Kevin Visheos is 24. Um, do you have experience on either side of this equation when there's such a big age gap? Like when you were young fighting somebody much older, or at the end of your career, I don't think you fought any like you fought Brad Tavares when you came back. Like I don't I don't remember nothing crazy. But this is this to me is a very interesting style matchup, which we see it sometimes, but rarely in a main event. And I don't know. Like, what are your thoughts on on this style matchup?
SPEAKER_02Well, it's like experience versus inexperience, it's like confidence, um, or like um sometimes it could be considered overconfidence, but just like extreme self-belief when you're a guy like Vallejo. Is it Vallejos?
SPEAKER_00Is that Vashejos? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Vashejos. Um he's he's on he's he's on a four-fight knockout streak, I think.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like I mean he just beat Giga Chikadze. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's he like this is a step up as far as a main event, but I think he's probably a pretty big betting favorite. Like they think highly of Kevin Vachejos for good reason.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and he more of a stand-up fighter, right? Yes. So it's interesting because Emmett was one of the most feared guys in this division for years because of his power in his hands. But one thing I could tell you, like, as you get experience, you get better. As you get older, you do get better technically, you understand the game more than ever. But what happens is when you're in your 40s or high 30s, like you're so smart and you understand the game so much that when you're in there, like the things that you just would do because there was no fear or no consequences in your mind, now you start hesitating. So, like if a guy was coming in on me and he's he he's coming in fast, like when you're young, you're just dropping in the right hand. You don't think about it. You're you're making him pay for encroaching into your space. As you get older, you start throwing your right hand, you're like, oh wait, if I throw this right hand right now, there's a possibly possibility that hits me with that check hook. So you're like pausing and you're hesitating, you almost start thinking a little bit too much at the more experience you get, as opposed to a younger fighter, he's just fucking going. He's just going. Now they put themselves in some bad positions, they do some stupid things, and they learn over time. But sometimes being that younger fighter who just is not worried about different things because he doesn't have the experience, he hasn't been, you know, rocked by that left hook coming in with that right hand that often. Yeah, um it's just interesting. That's one thing I look at now with these older guys because I felt it when I was in there. Like when you spar, you're doing everything, you're not thinking about too much. When you get in there, you realize the consequences of every action that you make, and one mistake is all one mistake is all it takes. So you'll see these guys kind of hesitate on things that they usually want to hesitate on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, I know Josh Emmett, I'm trying to think. I know he fought Lerone Murphy. Um, did he fight oh, he fought Yusuf Zalal and Zalal tapped him out pretty quick. But so that was like super quick. That was his last outing uh in October. But I remember when he fought Laurent Murphy in the main event at the Apex this time last year, April of last year, and he was like really going and looking for La Rone. And not so I think Josh will be happy that he's not gonna have to go looking for Kevin Vasejos. Like Vasheyos is gonna bring it to him, and Josh is probably gonna have some chances to land that power, but he's a big underdog. Vashejos is a minus 500 favorite or there. A little bit north of minus 500.
SPEAKER_02I gotta honestly watch some of Vachejos. He's good, man. He's really good. Yeah, I know he's from Argentina, that's pretty cool. They got a good guy from there. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um really impressive. Well, awesome, man. Uh, why don't we why don't we wrap it up here, Chris? How do we do that? Well, so you know, of course, I was like, let's go 40 minutes and we went an hour. Yeah. So good job, us. Yeah, that's great. Uh, but I thought it was compelling conversation. I agree. I'm gonna go with the Fitz and Wideman show episode one. I like it. If anybody wants to drop comments on a better name, please do so. And we'll see how many episodes of this here experiment that we get out of it. I love it. Does that sound alright?
SPEAKER_02Hopefully, there's just like tons of comments and people happen to watch it and they like it, and we'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I said worst case scenario, we get to catch up virtually. Best case scenario, we become one of those podcasts that changes the world.
SPEAKER_02We might change the world. Let's change the world. Positive affinity, baby.
SPEAKER_00God willing. Awesome, Chris. Good to chat with you, man. We'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_02Yes, absolutely, man. Thank you.