Talk Wealth to Me

#010: Having the "Money Talk" with Your Partner with Dan Hinz

June 24, 2019 Felipe Arevalo, Chase Peckham, Katie Utterback, Dan Hinz Season 1 Episode 10
Talk Wealth to Me
#010: Having the "Money Talk" with Your Partner with Dan Hinz
Show Notes Transcript

We're joined in Episode 010 of Talk Wealth To Me by Dan Hinz for a discussion on why engaged, newlywed, and married couples should talk about their finances, as well as tips on how to make those money conversations as easy as grocery shopping.

Dan mentioned a free gift for listeners of the Talk Wealth To Me podcast on the show. You can pick up a FREE copy of How to Talk About Money With Your Spouse: The Ultimate Guide by following this link.

About Dan:
Dan Hinz is the financial coach behind AdultingWithMoney.com. Dan is a graduate of Iowa State University holding a Master's degree in Business Administration with a focus on finance. Dan's 20,000+ word guide How to Talk About Money With Your Spouse: The Ultimate Guide teaches couples how to be on the same page with money by focusing on meaningful, lifelong habits, as well as some other helpful tips.

Comments, questions or suggestions for the show? Email us at [email protected]

Want to learn more about Dan Hinz? Visit his website AdultingWithMoney.com.

To learn more about DebtWave Credit Counseling, visit our website or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

To learn more about the San Diego Financial Literacy Center, visit our website or connect with us on Facebook and Twitter.

Support the show (https://www.sdflc.org/help-sdflc/donate/)
Intro:

Welcome to Talk Wealth to Me - a safe-space podcast where we chat about anything and everything related to personal finance.

Felipe:

The information contained in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It does not constitute as accounting , legal, tax, or other professional advice.

Chase:

Hello and welcome to another edition of Talk Wealth to Me. This is episode 10 can you believe it ? Episode 10 I can't believe we have already done 10 episodes in the last month or so, but there it is. Today, we're going to have an incredible show and it's, it's one that really is interesting. It's having the money talk with your partner and as anybody can attest, who is in a long-term relationship or has been in a marriage is in a marriage. Talking about money can be very difficult. So today we're going to talk with an expert by the name of Dan Hinz. He is a financial coach behind AdultingWithMoney.com and he wrote a guide called How to Talk about Money with your Spouse, the Ultimate Guide, and this teaches couples, how to be on the same page with money by focusing on meaningful lifelong habits as well as some other helpful tips. And we really get in-depth with this in the end if you're in a relationship, this is a can't miss for you here it is [crosstalk]

Katie:

And I actually had heard you on a different podcast. I was listening to the wedding confessionals podcast, one planning [crosstalk] my wedding. You were hilarious on there and you had a lot of helpful tips.

Dan Hinz:

Well thank you.

Katie:

So if anybody is planning their wedding, it's very cathartic. Um, but I mean financial issues, I saw a stat that said that financial issues will cause two times more problems in a relationship than sex ever will. Is that something that sounds right to you?

Dan Hinz:

I suppose so. That sounds about right. I haven't dug into a lot of the statistics yet because I think it's confusing when we start to talk about money and talking about a divorce and fights of that nature because certainly, I mean, we've already talked about it is it's all about communication. And so sometimes it's not really a, the fights about money, but it can be, you know, a lack of money and money is so tied to emotional things. It touches every part of our lives. So I really, I, you know, I don't know the statistics off the top of my head, but the fact that money touches everything. That makes perfect sense.

Katie:

Sure. So let me just even back up. Do you work with couples who are dating? I mean, should you be, what kind of questions should you be asking a partner about money or financial issues when you're just dating someone? I mean, do you go , do you go on a first date or second date and say like, Hey, what's your credit score?

Dan Hinz:

Well, yes, on the first day you asked for the credit score, you asked for social security number, mother's maiden name. Um , well, no I haven't, you know, I haven't branched off to helping couples that are dating quite yet. I have had one couple that was very serious and moving in together and trying to, to buy a house together. Uh , it didn't go great because it ended up being that I was trying to teach each of them to budget individually and then handle money together. Uh, but that's, that's the only one case, you know, it's, it's, it's anecdotal, it's only one data point in the universe, but I do focus mostly on engaged couples and newlyweds because, you know, going back to that whole communication idea is that I really want to sit down and help a couple start transitioning from I I, me , me to , we to us to talking about it as, you know, as a couple, as a family, as a unit, as a team to say, okay, how do we, cause most of us, I mean the statistics are that we are as Americans, just Americans are getting married older and older. We were waiting longer to get married. And most of the time we've had, you know, either a college degree or a master's degree, we've been out in the world and we've been handling money on our own in our own way. And then all of a sudden you've got to try to take these two ways of dealing with money and combine them together. Like how do you, how do you decide what is fair and what is unfair? Because most of the time it's not exactly going to be 50, 50. So how do couples draw those lines between each other? And so going back to your original question of what about dating couples, that's why it's a little bit harder. I haven't gotten into that field , uh , just yet to help couples because that , um, you know, that idea of that we are a unit now, you know, where does that , where does a couple cross that line is that when they move in together or you know, some couples, it could be a week, it could be a month. They're like, Yep, we are through this in the long haul. We're not technically engaged, but you know what, we're, we're, we're basically a couple for life.

Katie:

Oh yeah, that makes sense.

Chase:

And that could be, but there's a danger to that. And I know that a lot of people individually feel that way, that, you know, you get involved financially together, but then there's no repercussions in a lot of states where they can just take off and you can be taken advantage of that. And we know that in California there's common law marriage after so long, but that's not in every single state. So I don't want to say that marriage is like a binding contract that you're not going to fly the coop, but I mean, that can be, and that could make for apprehension.

Dan Hinz:

Yeah, absolutely. And I 100% agree and I think since I'm not a lawyer and , and don't have a law degree , uh, in , in that it's almost different for every state, is that there's certainly some legal stuff that, you know, it's a gray area that I don't quite understand and certainly I don't want to give people, ah, bad advice when they're dating and trying to mix , um, accounts. Um, but , but the good news is that , um , with technology these days with the way apps and software are able to track money is that you can , um, track money as a couple, as a unit without actually having joint accounts. Um, and so I had, I had a reddit post , uh , that I , I think it's been a year and a half now maybe. Um , and it made it to the front page of Reddit. Uh , and it was talking about how my wife and I never fight over money. And in the hundreds and hundreds of comments that I ended up reading, I found that when it came to whether you want to join all of your accounts together or keep them all separate or have some mixture in between, there are many, many, many couples that are successful and have had long marriages and long relationships. Any which way. Um , and so the lesson that I learned from that is, as we've mentioned already, is that communication is number one. Talking about money is number one. And then once you start to look into the joint accounts, really it's about logistics and making your life easier. Cause Trust me, getting joint accounts makes me and my wife, it makes our lives easier because it's just less things to track and to keep an eye on. Um , but it's secondary. Let's talk about your goals first. Let's talk about, you know, how to, how to handle those money situations and then we'll become more efficient.

Felipe:

It's great that you touched on goals. It's something that comes up a lot. And can you talk a little about about the importance of having goals that are set together, agreeing on the financial goals?

Dan Hinz:

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So , um, I think that's where a lot of the fights are going to come from is that one side of the couple, one partner is going to want something that the other one maybe doesn't want. And I think at, you know, at a certain point there's a question of control is, is we want to handle money together as, as a couple and as a unit, as in , as a family. But then are we controlling each other? Is someone in charge, where do we draw that line? How is that fair? But when you sit down and say, okay, we both want a house, like we both know that or we both want kids or we both want to get rid of this credit card debt. I am sure that as a couple you have something that you've talked about, probably talked in circles about , uh , and haven't really done anything with. And there's going to be a goal that you both want a , and so what you do is you make that your first priority or maybe it's a second priority. If you sit down and you create a list so that together that you, you kind of put your stamp of approval on it , uh , together to say this, these are our goals. This is what we're going after and why we're going after it. Because to be honest, to keep track of your money , uh , to budget and to keep up with those goals, it does take a little bit of work. Just like every marriage and relationship, anything you want to do in life is going to take some work. It's going to take some practice. You need to have that strong. Why? Why are we doing this? Why are we going through this pain? It's well, it's because we want a house. We agreed that this is the goal that we want to go after. Um, and in the last note on this is that for me to, to joke about it, basically I need, if I'm going to not eat Oreos, I need to have a good reason. If I'm not going to eat girl scout cookies, there better be a good reason for it. Uh, and the same goes with budgeting. If you're gonna say no to something or say no to your partner or say no to each other, there's better be a strong why. A strong yes that you're going after a to help balance that out.

Felipe:

That's great. I 100% agree. If you're going to say no, we're not going to go out and eat today. The reason for your reason why you're saying no because I said so. Exactly. Yeah, we're saving money for x or Y.

Dan Hinz:

Yes, exactly. And we'll, like today I'm a package, just came with 10 boxes of girl scout cookies and I am, I'm right now in the middle of a cut on trying to lose some weight and I'm just like honey, hide these like save one box of, of, of the peanut butter cookies for me. Uh, the tag alongs in like the freezer, hide it in the back of the freezer. And then when I'm done losing weight I'll eat all of them. But everything else take to work. Share with your friends, eat them before I can find them again.

Felipe:

See we even agree on the type of girl scout cookies.

Dan Hinz:

Yeah. You know, thin mints come in a good second, lets me honest I, and, and some of those are pretty good too, but it's all the peanut butter. I just go crazy for it.

Katie:

That's funny. So I want to take you maybe a step back. It's like you were saying, we may be talking about some of the goals that we have with our partner without even realizing that it's maybe also a financial goal, like buying a house or having children. How do you begin to start raising, I guess the financial aspect because there's a lot of emotional, maybe social cultural implications that are talked about when you're looking for a house or even having kids, what neighborhood do I want to live in? How many kids, what kind of school would they go to, would one of us be a stay at home parent. So how do you , um , then start that financial component, that discussion, especially if you're, if you're with a partner who maybe doesn't want to talk about it.

Dan Hinz:

That's a good question. And I think when it comes to any touchy subject, you want to come after it as , um, something that's a little bit fun, a little bit lighter touch. I know there's a lot of books out there that talk about, you know , marriage counseling or dating as in like, well, you know, talk about it, go on a date , um , and then talk about it, but you don't have to make any decisions. Um , another business book that I read is called Radical Candor. And one great piece of advice in that book is that it's okay to split decisions into two meetings. One meeting is a brainstorming meeting and another meeting as a decision meeting. And I think if you go into a discussion or a date or or whatever you want to call it as like, hey, we're just going to throw ideas out there and you know, see what happens. One meeting can be a brainstorming and the other can be a decision meeting. Now I did write a guide, I call it an ultimate guide. It's over 20,000 words, which is like half a book. Um, and , and it's free on my website if you, it will talk about the link later. But in that guide there is a process where you can sit down with your partner and start to talk about this. And in general it really is , um, is step one is set of five minute timer and you each, you know , go to your corners, or your sides of the table and write down as many things as you can think of when it comes to money. And then when that timer is out, if you can't think of it right now, don't worry about it. It's not important today. It might be important tomorrow or the next week. But for today, this is your list and you each pick your top five and then you come together and you create a top 10 list. Now I always tell the couples that I work with , uh, that you're trying to create a top 10 list, but because as a couple, you've talked about a bunch of stuff already, it usually ends up being like a top six or top eight. And even the last one is like, oh, we want to have more fun. Like it's not even a very specific goal that they want to go after. And the, the, the point is to have that discussion and just pick the order. It, you can't have any ties. Um , you can combine goals together, but you've got to have one through 10 and then come back to me as a coach and tell me, okay, what's your list? Um, and once you have that priority list and then we go into, well, how much does that cost? You know, how much, and then we start to go on the adventure of like, well, if you want a house, how much does it cost? A how big of a down payment are you looking for? If number two is getting rid of debt, let's talk about, you know, debt snowball and how all that works a retirement and so forth. So it's, it's trying to come at the conversation as we're doing this together. Uh, all of our top five priorities for each of us gets to be on the list. Uh , it just depends on if it's one or 10, but it's at least on the list and we acknowledged that.

Chase:

Yeah, I think that that's very, very good and sound advice. And I can tell you that when it comes to my , my wife and I, and what we try to teach is that there's no wrong answers when it comes to the budget, right? It's just numbers. Numbers are typically numbers and you're going to like the whole goal of spending less than we make, but at the same time, we're two different human beings. My wife does not care about golfing at all. She, I don't care about ever getting my feet rubbed or my nails done and, but yet I appreciate that she needs those things and those things, you know, make her who she was. Part of what I fell in love with and she met me when I was golfing. So we don't have, we have this fair understanding that if we want to do these things, then we budget for them ahead of time. And it's never an argument because we've got so much money laid out for those activities and half the time we don't even come close to even hitting that number. Um, and so we avoid those conflicts because we're not trying to take money out of somewhere else to pay for those things. And so that you don't get any harbor, at least in our case, we don't harbor any ill will.

Dan Hinz:

Yes, exactly. All that in I 100% agree. You know, it's one thing I, this is in the guide as well, but one thing that you should all , a couple should always have in their budget or in their plan is a little bit of a fun money or pocket money. It's just individual money for those little things. Like if you want to go to Panera, go to Panera. If you want to get Starbucks, go to Starbucks. If you want to go golfing, just go golfing. You, you give each other permission to spend that money on your own , uh , before it comes up. So logistically, it just makes life easier cause you don't have to check in with each other and get permission for every tiny little thing. Um, but what that also does is it helps you as a couple and as a team decide what's fair and what's not fair and where that line is. And you know, and that's why we, when I work with my couples, it's always, we talk about the goals first because we , we say, okay, this is the important stuff. First we know how much it's gonna cost and then we make sure the bills are paid and all this other stuff. And then you get to towards the end of the budget, not the very end, but at some point you talk about that fun money to say, well how much is that a and where do we want to draw those lines? Um, and I, you know, going back to the, the budgeting is just numbers. I also view it as, you know, the lines on a football field is that, yeah, they're white and they're painted, but do those lines actually stop anyone from crossing over them? No . They're adults. They're players. They're going to be inbounds and outbounds and come in and out and all that other stuff. But once the lines are drawn, we start to understand what's fair and not fair. Uh, and it's okay to go over those lines as long as you acknowledge like, oops, my bad, and then, and then work to fix it or do something different. Um, for the last example is , uh , my wife and I, we each have our little fun money or pocket money in our budget. And even though I'm a financial coach, I go over that budget nearly every single month and we have been budgeting every month for the last seven, eight years of our marriage. And so , uh, but the thing is is that we are doing so well. I'm making sure everything else is going well. There's enough wiggle room in our budget that yeah, I might go over by a couple of dollars, but in the end it doesn't matter because we didn't spend as much on our groceries as we thought, or our electricity bill was a little bit lower than we thought it was going to. Um, but you know, we've gotten used to it. We just know it's gonna happen and we're, we're still a happy couple.

Chase:

Yeah, that's incredibly important because I should have mentioned that it wasn't like we just came up with this number and said, you go golfing and you do that at the expense of not saving for the House that we were going to have a car or anything like that? I think that the biggest issues that I , that I , that we see, and I think that what I've read in parts of what you're putting out there is that most people get in trouble because they don't discuss the big things first. And they just get worked up about the little things that they're doing on a daily basis, which makes them feel like they're struggling financially.

Dan Hinz:

Yeah. Yeah. And especially if a couple, if one of the partners, you know, comes to the other and says, Hey, I want to start budgeting, you know, the other person is like, oh, well what's that going to stop me from doing? Am I going to be having less fun now? Am I going to be controlled? And so you don't, you don't start with the budgeting. For me, I view money as a cycle. Every month you go through the three same steps as a, what's going on with our goals? Did they change? Are we any closer step two or part B? Who along with his analogy is , uh , to track, you know, have that, have a mint account or have a, a quicken or quickbooks or s or something. YNAB that a , you're keeping an eye on your money, all of it together. Uh, and then third is the budgeting to say, well, we know where we want, we know where we are, what's the next step that we're going to take? And then, you know, you might make some mistakes and that's okay, but the next month you get to try again.

Chase:

Right. That's the beauty of it. It's just this is a never ending cycle and that's why it's so important for people to, I think, and you tell me if people just jump into it or do they go little by little, like stipping sticking their toe in the water before they jump all in? Is it one way or the other or do you find that every couple is, is a little bit different?

Dan Hinz:

Uh, in my experience so far, it's a little bit of everything. Um, I think at the very least, what I've found in every couple is that one of them wants to do this more or one of them is better at it or is , is more excited about it. Um, and so, you know, when it comes to that, I , uh , I try to coach my clients as , as fast as they want to go. I've had clients that do everything I say and everything that I emailed to them and they do great. And then I've had couples that just, I even , we have a session and I emailed them their to do list and I don't hear from them for a month. So it really depends on the couple and what's going on in their lives and just in their personalities. Uh, but usually, you know, the one , um, I guess, I don't know if I want to call it a rule of thumb, but the advice that I have when it comes to dealing with money is that it's okay if the work is 90 10, you know, I'm, I'm a money nerd. I love this stuff. I click all the buttons, but all of our decisions are 50, 50. If something needs to change, you know, it's a 30-second, Hey, this is what happened. We need to change this. Are you okay with that? And my wife goes, Yep . And then we're done, you know , budget meeting over. Um, and so, you know, when it comes to a couple and how fast they're going to go, it really depends on just , uh , what they've tried before. If they've never used a budgeting software before, it takes a little bit longer. Some people have, like I had one couple, both of them used mint on their own, but they didn't have like a joint mint account. So for them clicking the right buttons and getting all that set up was really fast cause they already knew how to do it. Um, and so it just really depends on a couple and , and just what's going on in their lives and their personalities.

Katie:

Well I think too, I mean it sounds like when you're first creating a budget, if it sounds like it's a huge time suck to just set up everything properly. But I mean, like you were just saying in 30 seconds, you can ask your wife like, Hey, do we have to change this for this month? So those little check ins that , I mean, it's not going to be as time consuming or maybe as emotionally taxing to have these conversations as people may think once you get everything set up.

Dan Hinz:

Yeah. And that's, and that's why I always try to equate starting a budget or starting this process. Like you're writing a paper for school or you're crafting a joke or you're learning an instrument or practicing practicing just a piece of music. A new piece of music on an instrument is that the first time around is terrible. It's not fun. It's a grind. It's, excuse me, but it's going to suck, but I'm honest about that. Um, is this a yeah, it , the first time around isn't fun, but the second time around you're just tweaking. The third time around you're just editing. It's the first one. Yes. It's terrible. Um, and it takes time. Uh , and I can get all of my clients, well as long as they do everything I say, I can get them through this whole process in three months. It really takes three repetitions to be like, okay, Dan, we get it. Um, and I really focus on teaching how to fish rather than giving them the fish. And so, you know, I've got templates and stuff that we start with to help make it a little bit easier. But then there are times where you need to tweak it to really fit your lives and you don't need an accounting degree. You don't have to budget every tiny little category. If you want to combine every , uh, you know, water, electricity, gas, trash. If you want to collect everything into just a utilities bucket and just have one number for utilities, I'm absolutely fine with that. You can, you can go too far with that. I've got a story about that. You can make it too simple. Um, but then you know, it, it really just depends on how you like to handle things. And just because I do it a certain way does not mean that the couples that , that I'm trying to take them as a square peg in , fit them into , um, you know , uh , a round hole.

Felipe:

That's great advice . And we tell people that when we do our budgeting presentations, as we say, he might not be good at it. Um, yeah. It might take you a few tries to figure out what system works best for you. So working with two people, it might take even longer to figure out which system works for both of them. Right. Cause it's gotta work for both.

Dan Hinz:

Yeah. And it's a , you know, and I guess I believe that my overall system works for everybody, but it's just so basic and so fundamental that it's really about like, here's, here's the saxophone. I'm going to teach you how to play it. But whether you want to go to marching band or you want to play it for jazz, or you want to go into a concert band, it's really completely up to you. But I will get you started and teach you enough so that once you get to a point you're like, oh, okay, now I get it. And you find the little things that are perfect for you. So if my clients love the fire movement , um , they want to be financially independent and retire early, I'm cool with that. Uh, if they, you know, want to work and be an accountant or a professor or a lawyer until, you know, they keel over in their office chair , I'm cool with that too. Um, it really , uh, it just to get my couples started and then the process of, okay, when things come up, when your goals change, when tax rules change, when you read an article on Mashable, like, oh, we should try that. Um , then you can definitely add it to your system where you can try it and see how it goes so that they have confidence to try new things and to edit as I go. Rather than trying to constantly ask themselves, are we doing it right? Should we be doing this instead? It really, you really need to get to, this is what we want and we're using this system to go after it.

Katie:

Okay. Well , and you piqued my interest. So what happens when you said that you have a story from a time somebody over simplified their budget?

Dan Hinz:

Oh yeah. Okay. I call this a Walmart story. So the , uh, I had a couple that I was working with a and we had our first coaching session and their homework was like, okay, create a budget and then send it back to me. And the story that I told them , uh, in, in our thing , uh , in our session was that for me and my wife, I went overboard. Like I said, I'm a nerd about this stuff. So I was trying to budget for makeup and I was trying to create a budget for toiletries and for cleaning supplies and like outdoor supplies and this and that and the other thing. And of course it got to a point where it was way too much work for no pay off. We were just, we were just making up numbers to make up numbers. So , uh, my wife and I, we decided that, okay, if we use it in the bathroom or it's used to clean the house inside or out, it's the toiletries and cleaning budget. Like it's just one giant bucket where we buy all that random stuff. Um, and so we simplified. So this couple took that idea and they sent me back their first budget and that had $1,000 for Walmart in their budget. Now in a month. That makes sense because, and they love going to Walmart. They'd get all of their groceries there , you know, pharmacy, you go to the eye doctor, they get all their auto supplies. I mean you, you can easily spend $1,000 a month at Walmart if you're buying everything there. The problem is when it gets that simple, if you go over budget, then what happened? Did you spend too much on food? Was it, you know, were you sick this month? It's too hard to diagnose any problems. So take , yeah, exactly. You bought a new TV or one of you bought a new TV or of you spent too much of your fun money, but it was hiding in the Walmart budget. So you know , at a certain point, you know, you can keep an eye on your bank account and say, oh well we, you know, over the month we took in so much and so much went out. But how do we solve a problem? It's kind of the same idea is that it can be too simple a that you, you're not able to solve problems and that, but that goes back to the idea of you can make it too complicated, you can make it too simple and you've got to find just the right balance for you. And it takes some time , uh, to, to, to go through that a few times.

Katie:

Okay. And now you said you mostly work with engaged couples in newlyweds.

Dan Hinz:

Correct.

Katie:

All right . So when you're working with these couples, I mean, I'm assuming it takes a tremendous amount of pressure off the relationship when you're learning how to communicate about money.

Dan Hinz:

Yes, it is. Yeah. And I've had a couples tell me that , uh , straight to my face is that a , you know, they said that you, Dan, it's, they've always told me that I am a surprisingly great listener. I am a great third party arbitrator. Um, and they, what I find is that my couples that I work with, they will start to have kind of a fight and kind of an argument and they'd be like, oh wait, let's write this down and we'll let Dan solve it. And then they just move on with their lives. And so they, they do everything else and then they wait until we have a coaching session. And then they ask me these questions where they email me a these questions. Um, but you know, they, they have said that is to say, you know what, it's, I , uh , they've told me that I do such a great job of making it such a , uh , a safe space or just a comfortable environment where they're more than willing to, to share. Cause they're really kind of telling me , uh, and, and we always do video calls so I can see the body language of both of them. So I know exactly kind of when to interrupt or when to have one of them shut up and then ask someone else a question and just, you know, and , and try to be slightly a marriage counselor. I'm not a marriage counselor, but it's a little bit of that is to make sure they're doing well with money. But communication is key the whole time.

Katie:

Sure. [crosstalk], for our listeners too, who maybe didn't go to premarital counseling or maybe are on the fence, what kind of questions do you first ask someone when you're, when you're meeting with a couple, I guess, what kind of questions could somebody just start asking their partner to figure out if they do need the help of somebody like you to just kind of direct and guide them to a place where there'll be able to work better together when it comes to their financial goals?

Dan Hinz:

That's a really good question. I think, you know, if , uh , so I guess the first question was, you know, what do I ask couples? Um, right away, honest to goodness, I just say the , you know, after the pleasantries , uh , and we have maybe like a sales call to get to know each other. Um, is I just asked, tell me your story, how you feeling? And just let them talk. And they say, you know, they go back and forth and they go, oh, we've been talking about this and we've been talking about that and we've tried this and, and I'll ask them, you know, do they, have they read any books? Have they tried any courses? Um, have they talked to any other coaches before? Basically, what have they tried before that, that hasn't been working? So I have a really good idea of where they are right now, the knowledge that they have right now, so I can help them take the next step rather than trying to like, oh, well, step one for everybody is this. So you need to do that. No . If like, if you've already done step one, two, and three, we can skip them. Uh , and move forward. But , uh , to your other question, you know, what can a, a person or a partner, if they're thinking like, wow, Dan sounds awesome and I really want to talk with him, I think we should get together, you know, just take this podcast episode and have them listen to it. And so , you know, just say, hey, this guy sounds really nice. Yeah. Um, is this something you want to try or do you want to look into this some more? Uh , now you don't want to be afraid of what your partner might say because, cause I had, I had one sales call where the , um, uh, we were starting the conversation and at one point the, the groom to be, they were engaged was just like, well, I'm not sure why we're talking. It's, uh , I don't think anything's broken in. And in the back of my head I'm like, well then why are we having this conversation now you know, your bride to be wanted to have this conversation. So it's a little bit of a clue that something isn't quite right, but you don't have to come up with a solution together. That's my job. I'll help you find the solution. Um, but if you know, if, if there's something bothering you is to be very careful about , um , the words you're using and use I statements as much as possible. Um, you know, I'm feeling this way when this happens or when this happens, it makes me feel like this because the moment you start to point and you start to say you always do this or you never do that or you start to blame or criticize game over. Um, I don't know if you guys have heard of uh, Dr John Gottman before. I have not, never not. So he's a , he popped up and Malcolm Gladwell in his book Blink talks about him and this, a psychologist can basically tell if a couple, we'll get divorced within 15 minutes at like 90% accuracy. And his research, what he's found is that there are four horsemen of the apocalypse. He calls him , which are a criticism, contempt, defensiveness and stonewalling. And he just watches couples talk, just argue about anything, you know, cooking, where to eat, money , uh , kids, pets and, but how they talk, how they communicate, how they argue are going to be the biggest clues of where the relationship is going. Now. Um, of course as a researcher, they just observed, they didn't, you know , try to intervene. But if you are able to intervene and notice like, oh, well, you know, I need to stop saying you always do this or you never take out the trash and start saying, you know, I'm , uh, how you're feeling , uh , based on what's going on and that will be a really good, really good thing to do. So going back to just me and my stuff is to say, you know, when we , um, are struggling to pay the bills, I don't feel safe and I'm not sure what to do about it, you know , uh , a statement like that just to say, you know, this is how I'm feeling. Not sure what to do about it, but I'd like to get started on something.

Katie:

Okay. And just your conversations with people, is that what inspired you to write that 20,000 plus word guide?

Dan Hinz:

Yes. Um, well I think part of it is I just had all of this knowledge and I wanted to put it into one spot and to say, okay, you know, it's, I , it wasn't quite enough to have a whole book, but I thought, you know, if, if , uh , especially if there's a couple that maybe they're really a good couple already and they can do everything on their own, here's a free guide, here are some steps that you can take. And if it solves you, I'm just, and maybe email me and tell me it helped because that would just make my day. Um, but it's also to say that I wasn't finding a lot of this elsewhere. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough, but I think some of the biggest financial , uh , gurus weren't quite saying it the way that I wanted it to be said . So I just, I didn't, I just needed to write it down like any good author or artist, I needed to get it out of me.

Katie:

Yeah, that makes sense .

Chase:

wouldn't you say [inaudible] one of the questions I have here is a lot of people, especially especially men, will kind of feel if I'm going to see somebody, then I must be inadequate in some way. And that my wife really just wants me to be here. My fiance really just wants me to be here. How often is there a reluctancy from one of the partners to the other in joining what you do? And can that be easily fixed by just talking?

Dan Hinz:

Ooh , that's a good question. Um, in my experience so far , um, the couples that I've worked with or even just talk to, they're already a good couple. They just aren't very good with money. You know, they're, they're , they seem to communicate fairly well, but for some reason money is a sticking point. And I think that's normal of a lot of couples is that they're really good in some area of life, but maybe want to just be better in some other area. And that's also why I call myself a financial coach is to say, you know, I'm not a counselor. I'm , you know, I'm not trying to dig into your past. I'm not trying to be a therapist and, and fix all your ills, but when it comes to looking forward to the future and setting goals and getting after what you want, well just deciding what you want, then that's really what, what we're going after. So, um, you know, so far I haven't found a lot of guys , um , that feel that way and maybe that's, you know, kind of a , um , oh, like survivorship bias is that, you know, it's just the couples that ended up getting to my email and wanting help that those , um, those men are already on board. In fact, I've really only ever had one guy call me and that's because his wife told him to call me. Everything else. They usually, it seems to be the wife is reaching out, but I've also had same sex couples as well because money really doesn't care about , um, your, your orientation. It's just you have goals, you have things you want, you've decided to become a couple. Uh , and let's , I'm willing to help and go after whatever you need help with.

Chase:

Well, if you think about it, I mean, just think about at the beginning of your relationship, all the stuff that couples are bringing into this relationship, and you think about the holidays, for instance, the holidays, right? Yeah . You all have your own traditions, your family did the holidays a certain way that her family did it. Another way. If you know, if the couples coming in one way or the other, there's two different dynamics coming in and now you're supposed to make your own. Well, we always did it this way. So this is the way we're going to do it, right? Well , no , we don't open our presents on Christmas Eve. So there's going to be a lot of give and take already, and it's hard to be, to cohabitate already. So the idea that now you're going to bring all the money together and you're gonna all of a sudden just know how to spend your money together is ludicrous. It's just probably not even, not even a prayer that you're going to be great at that right off the top. So a lot of this marriage thing is, we all know is learned. I mean, yeah , it's trial and error and figure out as we go and I , I love you this much and so we'll, we'll figure this out. And I think you're right. People that are doomed from the beginning are literally doomed from the beginning for the most part. And there was a lot more to it than just money, I would think. And I think you answered it exactly the way I thought that you would, is that if they're there and they're seeking help, that means that relationship, they , they're already communicating and they're communicating pretty well and now they're stepping out to say, Hey, a third party is a good idea. And I believe wholeheartedly it is.

Dan Hinz:

Exactly. Yeah. It, it, I haven't gotten to any, well, I take that back. There was one couple where it was obvious to me that money wasn't their problem. Um, it was, it was a couple. And , um, you know, my policy is that we always have meetings together. I mean, you don't have, it could be online through Skype or zoom or whatever. Uh, but we have the meetings , uh , together, and there's this one couple in the, the wife , uh , happened to be just insistent on meeting, like, oh, my husband's too busy, my husband's too busy, my husband's too busy. And then we, I'm like, fine, we'll let, let's just meet. And we met at a coffee shop and she's like giving me all of her books. And like, I think she thought I was an accountant and so, and so, but, but this was our second meeting, like we had an entire like sales meeting before this happened. Um, and, and you know, in one thing that she was showing me is that she's like, Oh, you know, my husband was always thinking about doing a food truck, so I just bought one for him. And I'm like, how much was that? She was like, five grand . And I'm like, Blah. And so, you know, it's, it's, it , she was, she was , um, very controlling, or at least my , um, my experience with her , uh, in the very short amount of time that I had been talking with her. So for me, it wasn't about money. I it, I think it was more possibly her and just their communication as a couple is to say that, you know, it's cool if could they afford that $5,000 off the bat? And maybe, I mean if he , uh, you know, it was just one of those things where I'm like, something's not right here and I don't think money is a problem. But that's a rare case. Everybody else seems to be like, Yep, we want this one thing with money. And we already talked well, but we just don't know what to do next. How , how do we go after these goals? What about this? What about that? What about this? And so I helped them organize their lives around money to say, okay, this is what you want a , here's how we're going to go after it.

Chase:

So last question for me, but we've had a podcast earlier on about financial infidelity and the idea that there can be skeletons in the closet. How often is, or what is your experience with people that have come to you? How often are people finding out that maybe there's debts in places they didn't know there were debts and, and that kind of thing.

Dan Hinz:

That hasn't happened a whole lot. And I think that's probably because I'm focusing a lot of engaged couples and newlyweds, you know, kind of the millennial generation like myself. Um, and so there hasn't been a lot of time to have a lot of skeletons in the closet. I'm sure that if I were to start helping newlyweds and engaged couples that are, you know, maybe it's a second marriage or are there more in their forties or 50s , um, that, that could come up. But certainly, you know, as a coach I II and just personally, you know, what's done is done, what's over is over. Uh , and what I want to see couples start to do is , is to move forward and say, okay, well this happened. Oh, well how are we going to handle it going forward? Um , so I'm really happy that you had a guest that talks about that and that can handle that. Not quite my a skillset yet. I think maybe , uh , in a couple of years , maybe I'll be pretty good at that. Um, but it hasn't quite come up for me just yet.

Chase:

And that's good to know. I mean, if you're going over that early demographic as those millennials, as they say, ah , it's just interesting how many people have gotten into marriages and there was a whole other financial life there the other didn't know about. And I mean, I had friends that was engaged for a year and a half and then six months before his wedding decided that he was going to talk to his fiance , that about whether they, that he should possibly go through bankruptcy because he had $50,000 in credit card debt. [Crosstalk] And that blew up the marriage. She literally said, who do I don't know you, you couldn't have talked to me about this really earlier. What else are you keeping from me? And honestly, that was the only thing that we know of. And maybe it was just really hard, but that just that one thing from keeping quiet for that long and his heart was in the right place to tell her, but it blew everything up. And that's when I was going through. I mean, the first thing I would tell women when we would first start to date and almost, it was always the last first date, the last date, was that I had made some mistakes when I was younger and I'm paying back all this debt and a lot of them would hit the road. But my wife appreciated that. My future wife, I should say, she appreciated it and said, if you're going to tell me that, like when we barely know each other, you're going to be very open in our marriage and, and that hit and that hit her. Uh , and so that's why I think it's so important for people to communicate about the little things, even about the holidays, all of those things that could be uncomfortable if you just discussed them. Anything can get worked out. Yeah. And especially like you mentioned earlier, that you're, that you're the financial guy and you look , I mean, I do this for a living, my wife handles our finances because she is a type a personality. I know she's going to want to be controlling and a lot of different ways or she's just, and I don't mean controlling in a bad way. I mean that she's just very, she wants to be involved in everything.

Dan Hinz:

Oh yeah. I'm right there with her

Chase:

and just let it and just, I let her do that. But the only difference is we meet once a month and we know exactly where everything is. So in case something happens to one of us, the other can , you know, we're not, one of us is not going to be left in the dark.

Dan Hinz:

Yeah, exactly. And I mean, and it's not always with money. I'm, you know, my wife is far, far better at picking out colors for our house and carpet and stuff and she loves to do it and I just, I can't stand it. Um , and so I, you know, I know I'm being a bit stereotypical, but it's really, you know, cause we here in the panhandle of Florida, we got hit by Hurricane Michael. Um, and so we've still got some hurricane repairs that we're working on and we're trying to pick out flooring. And I'm just like, you know, we've had concrete floors for like months now and I have barely noticed, I'm just trying to get work done and eat healthy and try to lose some weight and all this other stuff. And I just, you know, it just doesn't bother me, but I know it bothers her. Um, and so like I said, you know, the work can be 90 10, she's been doing all the work, but she'll be like, hey, here are the top three picks. Which one do you like the best, best? And I'll just point at one. She'd be like, no, not that one. And I'll point is the next question, they'll go, not that one . The third one, she was like, yeah, we're going to with that. And I said, great honey, fantastic, happy wife. Happy life. [crosstalk]. But you know, but it's, it's, those are our strengths and weaknesses. But then when it comes to, you know, pick, you know, I'm really picky about the laundry. Like how can you leave anything in the Washer for like hours, like it dings, you just switch it to the dryer. But I am terrible with dishes. Like I don't put anything in the dishwasher. And so, you know, as you get married and you , you start to live together, you find those strengths and weaknesses. Uh , and yeah, it's one of you might be better with the money and that's okay. But if you're communicating , uh , and, and you're, you're talking about this stuff on a regular basis, not for hours at a time, but 30 seconds here, five minutes there, you'll be all right.

Chase:

It made me think of one thing. And how often in the early stages that you're speaking with these couples, do you discuss future, like having children and the cost implications that could possibly come up with that?

Dan Hinz:

Yes. Um, I , we basically, we only talk about it when they bring it up. So I , I was talking about that goal setting a process in my guide. Uh , and I just let them go through it. I don't try to sway them one way or the other and they bring me their top 10 list and whatever that top 10 list, unless I see something absolutely terrible, like, oh, that's a bad idea. I just let them be adults. You know, I had my website is adulting with money and I want to treat them as their own independent family. Um, and so it has come up. Uh , and so being that my wife and I don't have kids yet and I haven't gone through that process yet, it's , it's more of a conversation to say, well, you know, what is it that you're worried about? What is it? How is your, what's your health insurance situation? What have you heard before? Let's research it. But in the end, part of that goal setting exercise that we do over a couple of months is also coming up with a number to say that all of those goals on your top 10 lists need to have like a monthly number next to them. And it doesn't need to be the perfect number. It doesn't have to be the right number, but just a number to say, well, if we're thinking about kids in three years and we want to save up to 20 grand to throw it out a number that we need to save up this much every month until that happens. And then we start to negotiate and say, okay, well what's your top goal? What's your second goal? How many goals can we fit into your budget? Uh , and then, you know, do you want to go all out on the top goal and just get it done? Or do you want to do little bits on every other goal? Um, and so that's where it starts to open up the conversation to say, well, what is it that we're worried about? What is it that we hope that this , um, you know, saving up for kids? Is this for college that we're thinking about? Or is it just healthcare needs or do we just want to get kind of a good start on supplies? You know, what is it that they're worried about? So that's usually how that conversation goes.

Chase:

Well that's fascinating because most people do have the worries. I mean you have that, those couples that like , oh we'll get married, you know, when we can afford it, we'll, we'll, we'll have children, you know, when, when we're settled and when we, when we have everything we want. And the funny thing is, is how do, unless you're really discussing it, how do you ever know what that tipping point is to where you do have enough and where you are making enough to have children or , or even get married or want to be in the right place and those kinds of things. We do. We hear that a lot. Usually that I would think that just means they got cold feet about the issues and that's just , that deserves a little bit more time and maybe more discussion.

Dan Hinz:

Exactly. Yeah. And I, and I think that's where a couples , you know, they , they start to talk about these things and they kind of talk in circles cause they never really get down to the nitty gritty details of, of deciding you know, what they want. Um, you know, the best advice I've received thus far in my life when it comes to just being awesome and winning at life , uh , is to stop asking yourself, you know, should I be doing this or when should I be doing that? The very first question you want to ask yourself is, what, what is it that I want? Not what people should tell me, but What , whatever, what is it that I want? And then you get to why do I want it? So you have a strong one , you have a strong why and then you ask who can help me? And once you get past who can help me, they probably have a, how they can help guide you down. Whatever path may be that they've walked down before. Uh , and so, you know, when a couple is like, well, we're, we're, we're gonna wait until this moment in our life to do this thing. I, you know, that's like you said, you just kind of kicking the can down the road. You're not really serious about it. It's like saying, Oh, I'll learn guitar when I retire. If you want to learn guitar, just start learning guitar. Like you know, carve out the hours in your day where the weekend too to get started. Yeah, it's going to take practice. But you know, if you want it, go after it.

Chase:

That's really funny timing right there. Cause I just started, picking up a guitar and I'm 47 years old and I found out it's very difficult. Well , yeah, you know . Oh yeah, it's the heck out of your fingers. I will tell you that

Dan Hinz:

I , uh , I've only, I dabbled in it and I'm like, this isn't for me, but those Bar chords off , forget about it.

Chase:

Uh , idea of it is so alluring to me, but the practice of it is so complicated.

Dan Hinz:

Yes. And , and you know, and I've told people, cause I played saxophone all through high school and college marching band , um, and I was like, oh, I really want to play an instrument. And I picked up the guitar for a little while, but you know, I didn't really stick with me and I used to golf, but I don't really golf anymore. And I've , I , I tell people this and I'm like, Oh, you should definitely start golfing some more, you should really get out there. And I'm like, Eh , you know, for me, I'm like, it's not a goal of mine. I have so many other things. Like I want to practice, you know, being a public speaker, I want to maybe start my own podcast or a youtube channel. I want to help people with this stuff. And although golfing is fun, it takes so much time and energy that it's not quite worth it for me. And I, and I think people who say, Oh, you should, you'll pick up the guitar, you should , uh, go golfing. It , it's like they're imagining , um , future regret of not doing things themselves. [Crosstalk]. And so to me it's like, oh, I bet there's something in their life that they're regretting that they haven't started or it's something that they want to do for me. Like, I'm fine with it. I am absolutely fine with not picking up the saxophone again. It was fun. It was great. I just currently don't have a reason to. I have so many other fun things that I uh, am going after that it's okay for that goal. Uh, or that skill to be at the bottom of the list.

Chase:

Yeah . Yeah . Hey, trial and error. I mean, that's what life's about, right? Yes. You can figure it out because that does the guitar, to me it was a burning thing. Like I never accomplished that. Yeah . And then I found out why I didn't accomplish that. Yeah. That's very true . I'm not very good at it and I don't have a heck of a right. The time game, right. Yeah . Picking up the guitar when I have a 11 and nine year old who are fully emersed , emersed in sports and other things, probably wasn't good timing.

Felipe:

I love looking at my guitar [crosstalk]

Dan Hinz:

Yeah. Well I think the problem for me is I was playing acoustic. I should've fit , switched to like electrical, so it's just easier to hit all those notes and do Barre chords and stuff. Like , you know, I did get to a point where I'm like, okay, I appreciate this. And when I listened to music, I understand what things are hard and what's easy , uh , and , and how things are going on. And so yeah , I find myself when someone's playing the guitar , uh , in a youtube video or I'm watching them live, you know, I'm watching all their fingers, they're like, oh, that's pretty cool. I appreciate it. I have no desire anymore to do it myself. But I get it.

Chase:

And why most really good guitar players have giant hands. Yes, very long fingers. I do not yet have found out. I do not have guitar friendly hands.

Dan Hinz:

And you get those giant construction worker hands. It makes things, it makes life so much easier for the guitar.

Chase:

It certainly does.

Dan Hinz:

[Crosstalk] Ukulele, Ukulele c lay, o ur s peed.

Katie:

And Dan, we really have had such a great time with you and before we let you go, you actually have a free gift for our listeners.

Dan Hinz:

Oh yes. Uh , thank you for reminding me. Yes. So , uh , the , that free guide I was talking about , um, I'd, so it's a free gift for everyone listening here , um, to, to talk wealth to me. And so the link is adultingwithmoney.com/twtm. So that's adulting with money.com slash TWTM. And so the, the guide is called how to talk about money with your spouse, the ultimate guide and it's just, and it's a big guide but it's divided into a lot of different chapters. So pick it up, get it in your email, just read the chapters that you need to read. There's a giant, a frequently asked questions section. Um, and then once you get the guide and read through it, if you have more questions just send them to me, cause I , I really need to do a second version here soon and we'll uh, any, any questions or feedback that I get will help me make the next better version. [inaudible]

Chase:

I was fascinated by this interview that we had in the mere fact that just relationships fascinate me and from what we do with the lip for a living and talking about finances and goal setting and all those things and being married and in my real life and having experienced those things, I wish I would have been able to talk to somebody like him like prior to us getting married because Keri and I actually had a decent run of things, but we might not have had a few of the painful points had we met with somebody a little bit of ahead of time.

Felipe:

Yeah, it's always that, oh man, I wish I'd known that. Right. And what if you could have figured that out? The easy way,

Chase:

and we do this for a living, I imagine how hard it is for people that are just going about their day. They're going about their, their life, right? They go to work, they come home, they eat, they go do their things and then they do it all over again the next day. And along the way expenses come up and you got to pay for this. And you gotta pay for that and you've got to do all this and you've got to do it together. [inaudible] when you both have had your own separate lives before and now you're trying to bring that under one household and make it all work, that's difficult.

Felipe:

Even if you're good at it, there's, there has to be an adjustment period.

Chase:

Eat without question and I think that that's why if you discuss that in Katie, maybe you can kind of shed some light on that being that you're a newlywed, that how often do those kinds of little conversations come up or are they like for you guys deepen, okay, we've got to set aside a time to discuss this.

Katie:

You know, so it's hard for me to answer right on the way I want to say. So we actually did premarital counseling before we got married and that was great for us because there are areas in your relationship that are maybe weaker spots. I don't want to say that their deficiencies are bad areas, but there were just weaker in your relationship. And for us, financial areas was one of them because neither of us considered ourselves to be money people and without even talking to AJ, I thought I had a countdown in my head. I thought that once our wedding happened, I was going to be free from paying bills. I would never know like what the due dates are, the minimums ever again. That's what I thought.

Chase:

Is that because that's what you wanted?

Katie:

Of course. I thought I didn't like numbers. I thought that I was bad at them, so I put that pressure on myself. But once we did premarital counseling and we had those conversations, kind of like what he was talking about, you don't have to figure out the solution. When you have that conversation, you just start having that conversation slowly. So once we started doing that, it's been better. However I am that person you described as having cold feet when it comes to kids and like housing and stuff.

Chase:

Yeah. Well, I mean it's so interesting that when we make the decision to do something that that's half the battle [inaudible] and if you're going to , if it's going to help to have a third party help kind of just clear the path for you so to speak, ask the questions, so the pressure's not all on one of you in the relationship to make the ultimate decision. Because if you think about this all the time, he mentioned in the interview, he said, you know, my wife asks me, she gives me four different things to look at. And she says, no, not that, but she wants to make you apart. She wanted to make him a part of that decision even though she really knew what she wanted. And the funny thing is is I know when my wife asks me a question about what do I like better answering, I don't care. Never is a good answer because she really does want the help or she wants to , wouldn't have asked you or she wants the reaffirmation of what she really wants.

Katie:

I mean, I think a lot of women notice that though. In wedding planning. I knew what color AJ would look best in for a suit and he had no idea. So if I just let him walk into a store, he could potentially come on with .

Chase:

That would be great! Powdered blue with ruffles [inaudible]

Katie:

He's gonna look like he came out of Dumb and Dumber. Yeah . But I mean, there's certain things, like he was saying with his wife, she's better at picking out colors. That's kind of how I identify in the relationship that AJ and I have of the two of us, I'm the one who's better usually at picking out colors and I can take more things into account. However, I want him to be part of that decision because if there's a financial implication, I don't want fingers pointed at me like, Oh, you made that choice

Chase:

and you just wait till you get into like your kids playing sports or going into dance or trying to going into accidents .

Felipe:

Yeah, shopping for kids. I'm like, oh , look at this one. It's cheap. It's bright orange. Oh , that'd be great. We'll be able to find him in a crowd.

Chase:

You're not making those decisions. That's a perfect example. I have no interest. [inaudible] it doesn't matter. It's really kind of morphed that like for whatever reason I tend to make those decisions or those things for Clay and she, we happened to have one of each and she still buys him all his clothes and everything like that. But when it comes to athletics and all that, I tend to be doing all of that. She has [crosstalk] to Dick's sporting goods. But even for Avery, which is even interesting that we have to have those discussions because club soccer is expensive. Travel baseball can be expensive. So you've got to make that decision on that. Okay, how many sports? What are we gonna let them do? But once those decisions are made, then I handle all that registering and all that stuff . Exactly. Blue Sombrero logins and she doesn't want to make decisions on that and just trust that I know that better. Once we talked about the financial end of it then, then the , the rest of the decisions are easy and she just says, you know what, you run with it. And that's same thing with our house. You know, after we were in at 10 years in our house now looks like nothing like what we, when we bought it, but it took 10 years to get to that place. You know that final thing that we did, I should really bite my tongue because maybe the kitchen's not. The final thing there's a whole upstairs [inaudible] been done and you know, but that's not as important to her right now. But I'm sure it will be the older that kitchen gets , the more that those bathrooms upstairs are going to bother her .

Katie:

But I think that's a great example of how just like your house, like when you buy it, you're going to put, you're just going to pour in sweat equity. You're going to slowly start improving it. Same with your financial situation. When you're in a relationship at first, when you're figuring out how to merge it, you may need a third party to tell you, you don't actually have to have a joint account and you can keep separate accounts and then just feed money into one. Like there's just all of these different ways to do it. Yep . So having that third party to give you those options can be helpful .

Felipe:

Yeah. And he was giving strategies and like the two parts, it was funny when I was listening and he's like, Yo , I bet a two part strategy where the first time you just brainstorm, then you go away and you come back and make decisions. I was like, Oh wow, there's a method to Sarah's madness. Um , she likes to the two parts,

Sarah:

Nah she's just, she just is putting time in between now and having to make decisions. Sorry, Sarah.

Felipe:

So she says she likes to procrastinate to the , to think about it on her own so it doesn't feel pressured and then come back to it. Me, I liked it. No, we're here to solve it. Yep .

Katie:

That's too much pressure for me. Especially cause it, especially when you start getting into things like having kids, that's a lot more pressure on my side of the table than AJ has, you know, so there's just certain elements that, I mean there's, you're coming at it from two different perspectives as well.

Chase:

It's really interesting too, as I was talking with my brother and just couple weeks ago, month ago, and we were talking about the fact that I go, well, what are you going to do if you ever get married again? And he goes, chase. Honestly, I don't think I'm going to ever get married again because I've been alone for too long now. I'm so set in my ways that I can't imagine having to. I can't imagine anybody putting up with my decision making because I'm already a type a personality. I've been on my own since my wife and I split up and I'm not really at a point where I'm ready to break and I'm ready to make a decisions together with somebody. I make the decisions what worked for me and my girls and I go on with it and I go, man, that's, you know , a lot of guys and women too um , women too eventually they want partnership and they will do whatever they can. They'll change themselves for partnership. And then changing yourselves is what can do most marriages because you can only shed your stripes for so long. And it's amazing to me that he would know that ahead of time and just say I'm kinda stuck in my ways and he's only, he just turned 45 so it's not like we're talking about a guy who was heading towards retirement.

Katie:

No, but that self awareness is very important in a relationship. Cause it's Kinda like what you were saying. You and Keri talked about golf is very important to you and getting her pedicures and manicures is very important to Keri. And I mean AJ and I have similar things. I'm sure you and Sarah have similar things.

Felipe:

Used to be golf, but you've seen my golf game and it's currently not golf.

Chase:

Yeah, I use that as an example. But that as everything else in our lives, things kind of morph and change. And some of those budgets for me in golf have gone to monthly dues for clay and Avery to play baseball. And I say that not because I'm taking away from one thing to give to another, but it's happened kind of by circumstance. The mere fact as I'm watching him play baseball every weekend and watching Avery play soccer every weekend, so where am I going to get the six and seven hours to go play golf, right ?

Felipe:

Would you have time to go golf?

Chase:

No. And I don't, I don't miss it entirely because I know that golf will always be there if my back doesn't get hurt or some , but golf will always be there. But watching my kids do those activities won't and they're going to eventually grow up and they're going to go away. And so my time is, is limited in in the experiences that I'm going to have with them. So those decisions actually are very simple, but I don't spend nearly the money on golf now and it just kinda happened that that money's going to go towards there because it's just the way my life is right now. And I wouldn't trade it. It's, I don't miss the golf that much, especially if you saw my game on Father's day. Of course it was 108 degrees in palm desert, so it was a little hot but it started out great and ended terribly. But all of us were like that , that it , that just goes to show you though that a lot of times life is going to kind of make or help you make decisions that you as a younger person never would have thought about. You know, I played a lot more golf when I was in my twenties and thirties than I am now. And that's just purely because I'm just right in the middle of being a father right now and that that's just kind of the way things go. We don't have nearly as many big large vacations that we use to because our kids are doing that all the time yet. So now my wife and I where we would just make three or four vacations a year and we would go away. Then now we're having to really kind of try to fix that special time for just me and her. Right. That that relationship thing that you need so you don't forget what it was you so much loved about each other before your children because you don't, and you don't want to all of a sudden have your life be around, be about your kids 100% and you forget and lose the person and the couple that you were. Yes. Yeah. And so that now we're carving out financially, we're going, okay, how can you and I go away and do things just for us? And that means not only the vacation about where we're going, but who's going to watch our children for that time? Right? Who , who is, who ? Are we going to pay a babysitter or are we going to find a family member to do that? So you're now thinking about the implications of if we have a babysitter, the stays the night with them for five days, that's 500 to a thousand dollars that we're going to spend for that. And we haven't even left yet. So there's all the different avenues that you've got to look at that make you happy, but yet don't throw you into looking at bankruptcy. Yeah. Yeah.

Katie:

Like financial chaos

Chase:

financial chaos is a good way of putting it.

Katie:

But you're right though, cause I mean AJ will buy video games like almost every month. And

Felipe:

I used to buy video games all the time

Katie:

and it's a , it's an expense that I probably could look at and say, I don't think that we need that because I don't really even know how to play video games. But I choose to continue to allow him to do that. I don't want to say allow him, I encourage him to continue to do that because I don't want to lose who he is. The person that I fell in love with because your right I

Chase:

because he was playing video games before and while he met you and after . Yeah .

Felipe:

You know what's fun?. That's coming back to video games now. I played different video games. I play like the ones I could play with my son to an extent. Um, but I want to ,

Chase:

And you're going to grow to enjoy that with him.

Felipe:

Yeah. Now , um , I just got him a NBA 2k whatever. I'm not, because I'm a basketball fan and healthy. He even likes basketball. Um, it was the only sports, it was on sale. Like Nintendo had a huge sale on video games and it was $3. So I figured, yeah, that's for a video game. That's crazy. I don't really care if it's the last year's version because this basketball , um , it's like less than a parking for a minute . But you're investing in now it's, yeah, now it's US getting to hang out in him playing and try and discovering possibly a new sport. But a back to your point where you say you used to golf more like some of my , uh , friends who I've been golfing with for , for years, they , they still golf a lot - they're not married with kids. So we've met up a few weeks ago and like, Hey, what'd you do earlier ? Oh, we played around a golf. What'd you do? I'm like, I , I went to the park. I was at a playground. But to me that was enjoyable. And you know, they still have the ability to go. Uh, and golf I spent time in and , or in this case time but time and or money to bring my kid over to the padre game or something. Just to have them experience , you know, big league baseball. Yeah . Yeah .

Katie:

I think in the end it's just realizing that your priorities change and you just have to communicate that with your partner.

Chase:

1000% can't say it any better. Number one most important thing financially or otherwise is communication and tell him he can't be hiding. Tell him how you feel. Just you've got to learn how to do it in a way that doesn't seem like your exacting a frustration or your um , throwing them under the bus. Like it's their fault.

Felipe:

I think he mentioned it with saying using I statements instead of the you statements.

Chase:

Yep. And it's just being able to discuss things in a very calm and you know, thoughtful manner. And I think honestly, if, you know, if you love each other and you just discuss it , cause a lot of times if you love somebody you're going to want them to do the things they enjoy. [inaudible] Right? I and my wife and I enjoy it a lot of things together but we, I also know going in that she was an independent woman and she needs to have friendships or she likes to have her, her uh, girls nights with her friends and she is a better partner because she has those experiences. Just the same way that I'm a better partner because I am never told what I should or shouldn't experience, you know. But we do have to make tough decisions in that. Can we do what we want to all the time? No, because the financial constraints are going to be that be many . You just need to be able to decide together what is important and what isn't. And if going out to dinner every third night is important to you, something else is going to have to give. And it's probably one of the bigger wants, right. As he discussed towards the end. Very true though.

Katie:

I agree. And I think that was kind of something that we picked up in the financial infidelity podcast. If your goals don't line up, inevitably the financial issues will shortly follow.

Chase:

Yep. Yeah, yeah . And you talked about stresses [inaudible] . If there are certain things that aren't going well in your life or things that are bothering you, you're going to find something else that frustrates you. That's that you're going to pick on.

Katie:

Oh yeah. It's gonna be a little thing too that sets you off wildly

Chase:

Right and you're going to look back at it and go, what was I upset at? Yeah . But what that does is, is you just have to be careful in that you're not spouting poison into something that doesn't need it. And if you're complaining that, oh, you went off and bought this, when really something else is bothering you, you have to look in the mirror and you've gotta be able to discuss these things. I mean, we all do it. We're human. We're all going to spout off from time to time. You just have to be able to go back and go, man, I really apologize. I don't know where that came from.

Katie:

Yeah, no, well said. I agree with that.

Chase:

Yeah. Tail between your legs.

Felipe:

It's important to know when you're wrong. It's, it's , it's usually a life skill

:

You know it right away. It's whether your ego lets you, come back and apologize. And if you mean it, cause they'll, they know .

Katie:

But I mean, in a marriage, there's really isn't room for an ego.

Chase:

There isn't. No, no, there isn't.

Katie:

So being able to say, you know, I screwed up. Even if it's a financial thing, I went over budget or I charged this, or whatever

Chase:

100 percent. So what do we got?

Katie:

I don't know.

Chase:

All right. Stay tuned for next week when you , uh , join us for Talk Wealth To Me

Felipe:

Well, it'll be good.

Chase:

It will be good. Whatever that is.