Talk Wealth to Me

#021: Life Without a Car: Could You Do It?

October 04, 2019 Felipe Arevalo, Chase Peckham, Katie Utterback, Dan Hubbard Season 1 Episode 21
Talk Wealth to Me
#021: Life Without a Car: Could You Do It?
Show Notes Transcript

For decades, owning a vehicle was synonymous with freedom.

Having a car meant not having to be at the mercy of a bus or train schedule; it meant you could live and work in a different neighborhood from where you worked or went to school. Vehicles even became a place of refuge – a place to sing out loud or rest your eyes.

But cars are ridiculously expensive – and as rideshare companies like Uber and Lyft gain consumer trust and extend their services to every neighborhood in the U.S., more and more Americans are questioning the need to own a car.

When you can find a ride to your destination in a matter of minutes with just the swipe of your finger, does it make financial sense to continue to make $500-plus payments, possibly for the rest of your life?

San Diego-resident and friend of the show, Dan Hubbard, joins us to share how he lives without a car in Southern California. Dan even shares how he commutes daily to an office job via public transportation.

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Intro:

Welcome to Talk Wealth to Me a safe space podcast where we chat about anything and everything related to personal finance.

Felipe Arevalo:

The information contained in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It does not constitute as accounting, legal, tax or other professional advice.

Chase Peckham:

Hello and welcome to Talk Wealth to Me. Today is a very interesting interview that we had and it's something that us Southern Californians don't even think about really. In fact, it's not even on the consciousness, but we talk with Dan Hubbard who is a long time friend of the show, a long time a cohort as well. Dan doesn't have a car and he lives in the heart of San Diego, California, Southern California. Whereas people would know our freeways are packed from Santa Barbara, Los Angeles down to San Diego. Everyone owns a car that is, but Dan Hubbard and Dan talks to us about how it has made his life easier. He has less stress and even though I don't think I could do it, it is a really interesting conversation. Ooo I just cussed see now how to have to edit that out. No, I don't have to edit that out. This is a podcast, but we didn't click on the explicit. Okay. Um, alright , well, Dan, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us today. And , uh, I think for the most part, all of us that know you and I, and I will preface this by saying that, that Dan Hubbard , uh, who was in the world of marketing, he's a marketing guru , um, is a friend of ours, somebody that we've worked with before, a good, good friend. Um, but, and , and we, we've always kind of ribbed him because he, he has a way of life that most of us, Southern Californians and Californians in general, don't adhere to.

Felipe Arevalo:

No, it's a, it's an interesting choice and it's, I don't see, I don't see how I'd be able to do it.

Chase Peckham:

I'll flat out tell you exactly. I can't, I wouldn't, I don't know how , um, but I have to admit that I'm, I'm not very good. I was never very good at transportation , uh, public transportation in general. And Dan, you don't own a car. In fact, you don't drive a car. Is that correct?

Dan Hubbard:

That's correct. It actually started , uh , I started thinking about it from when I lived in the Bay Area because they had the public transportation up there was so much better than it is down here. You can take BART, you could take Cal train , they had shuttles everywhere and there were just so many cars in the Bay area that a lot of people don't drive. Especially if you're going up to San Francisco. It just doesn't make sense cause there was no parking. It's really expensive up there.

Chase Peckham:

Oh, that, that's exactly what I was going to say and which it's unbelievable how bad I was at transportation, at public transportation. I lived in San Francisco for five years. I went to college there at , I'm a graduate of the University of San Francisco and I have to tell you, I don't, I think I had well over $2,000 in parking tickets in the years that I lived there. And I have to admit, I took a lot of cabs, but I, and I took, I took BART a few times to Cal games, but other than that, this Southern Californian had a really hard time figuring out public transportation. But it is fantastic up there.

Dan Hubbard:

Oh, absolutely. It's great. Especially if you're going to SF Giants games and you don't, you don't want to drink a drive. I lived in mountain view and I was about four blocks from the train station. So you take the train up, it's about 45 minutes up and then you don't have to pay for parking, any of that stuff. You're two blocks from the stadium, jump on the train head home and you're home in minutes and it's great. And you can drink on the train, which is another plus.

Chase Peckham:

That's right. I forgot about that.

Dan Hubbard:

Yeah. Um, so I moved to Pacific beach in 2004 and I sold my car when I moved. Uh, basically had a guy paid a guy like 300 bucks to move all my stuff in a truck down here. And then I flew down and met him . So I had all my stuff here.

Chase Peckham:

Was this a friend of yours ?

Dan Hubbard:

A guy I met a guy I met on Craigslist, if you can believe it. He actually does it for a living. He just packs it up and drives down. It was I think seven or eight hour drive for him and we started at like 8:00 AM and then I had, I think I had a two o'clock flight that's , I actually beat him here and he got in with a little bit of traffic and a little little bit of a delay and I had all my stuff and it was real easy to do.

Chase Peckham:

So the real, I kind of think I don't, I don't really take us back. What was the idea behind, I'm moving to Southern California where public transportation is not even close to the Bay Area. Did you just think you are never leaving PB?

Dan Hubbard:

No, it's not that it's, I had left my job and I didn't have one set up. I had family down here in Oceanside, but I was living away from them. So I was trying to cut expenses, number one and one is car insurance, gas , uh , all of that stuff, no car payment. So I was able to live in PB rather cheaply and I live walking distance from the store from everything. And there was really no reason that I saw to need a need, that car expense and we only have one parking spot and my roommate has a truck and for us to both fight over the spot, it just didn't make sense. So it was more financial reasons and I wanted to make sure that I got here and got settled and got a job and then I decided to get our car again. I would make that, make that choice at that time. But I mean with the Uber and all the bus lines, it doesn't, it didn't make sense for me to get a car because if I'm going out with friends and we're going to have a couple drinks, I'm going to Uber anyway or cab or do something like that. And it just, it made more sense to, to do it that way.

Chase Peckham:

And for those listeners that are not, we're , we're talking Pacific beach PB , uh, this is San Diego lingo that that's a community, a beach community , uh, in San Diego. Uh, that is typically a , it's beautiful. I mean, there's a lot of beach communities in San Diego, but Pacific Beach is the place that typically younger people , um, college students , uh, but, but really all types of people that move there if they want the beach life. Right. There's great nightlife. There's bars, there's restaurants, there's all kinds of beaches. It's really, really fun. I have to admit, I lived there for a good 12 of the 20 years. Oh no, I'm , I'm older than that. A good, a good. A 12 of the 25 years I've lived here. So , um, it's a great place, but in relatively easy to get around.

Felipe Arevalo:

Not easy to find parking though.

Chase Peckham:

Oh no. Parking's terrible.

Felipe Arevalo:

It's a mess.

Dan Hubbard:

Well, it's gotten a little bit better once they , uh , removed drinking on the beach because everybody would come down here, parked their car and leave it overnight. But now that you can't drink it , drink on the beach, it has brought a lot less people out to Pacific Beach, which was actually nice at times.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah, it's much cleaner too . I was part of that . We were part of that. I, I lived here during the, we're not, you know , when they voted to make it illegal on the beach and we were really not happy those of us that lived there. But I think honestly it was better. Now that I look back on it, it was better for it. The beaches are so much cleaner than they used to be.

Felipe Arevalo:

Those are my very early drinking years.

Dan Hubbard:

I want to say it was about three years in that they passed that ban that I was here.

Chase Peckham:

Absolutely. So kind of give us, you know, for a lot of people a car is, is kind of a definition of freedom. Um, the idea of, of being able to move around. Now when you moved here, Uber wasn't really even a thing yet, was it?

Dan Hubbard:

No, Uber was not a thing. I took cabs because cabs really on Garnett in Pacific Beach there, there were a lot of them. So it was real easy to get a cab , but you would get a cabin literally seconds. And if I went outside of Pacific beach to let's say a Padre's game, I could either take the bus downtown or I could cab it downtown. It's, you know, $20 cab ride there. Um , which isn't isn't awful, I mean, especially if you're considering how much you're going to spend on, you know, a car payment, gas insurance. Um , I don't Uber that much. If I'm going out, I do. Um, we go to brunch up in Sorento Valley and it's a $15 Uber up to Carl Strauss on a Sunday. And that's nothing. So it's , it's just a little bit added expense. But I mean, the bus is cheap. You can go, you can take the train up to Oceanside if you want. Literally, you know, one bus to Old Town and you can take the train all the way up and can take the train up to LA if you want. You take Amtrak. So there's just so many different ways to get around. It doesn't make, it didn't make sense. And, and I just, I love every day not having to deal with parking, driving all of that stuff.

Chase Peckham:

Okay . So you don't feel like you're missing anything by it?

Dan Hubbard:

I'm missing absolutely nothing like that without having a car. It's great

Felipe Arevalo:

Doing things like Padre game. I mean, you're spending $20 on parking almost. If you were to drive yourself down there.

Chase Peckham:

I was there last night. Parked $20 for valet right there in the Marriott, which is really convenient by the way, if anybody ever wants to know. In fact, I shouldn't say a word about that because.

Felipe Arevalo:

Someone's gonna start stealing your parking spaces.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah, I mean the , the lots, all the lots around there . All 20 plus bucks and you just pull right up. They take your car, you walk literally across the street and there's the ballpark. You come back, pay 20 bucks in , they give you your car back. That's the best thing ever. Yeah . But I will tell you, last night was a Monday, I didn't have any beers. No, nothing. Um, drove . So driving was good. But most of the time my wife and I were laughing that we would from North County, even Dan, we would Uber down to the ballgame cause you know, we want to enjoy the experience and a lot of that is having a beer or two at the ballpark and we don't want to drive when you do that and you shouldn't drive.

Dan Hubbard:

And I'm guessing from North County it's probably about 35 bucks.

Chase Peckham:

Yes.

Dan Hubbard:

To Petco, which isn't bad at all. I mean ,

Chase Peckham:

no, it's not bad at all.

Dan Hubbard:

Better than a DUI, which I know a lot of people with them. So

Chase Peckham:

yeah, thankfully I don't have one. And I do know people that have them too. So yeah. That, that, that's not an option. That that should never be an option. Driving is bad idea when you've been drinking. Yeah.

Dan Hubbard:

Oh absolutely.

Chase Peckham:

But what would you say? Now that's, we're talking , we talked a little bit about, you know, the idea of getting around when you're drinking or doing things socially. And I would imagine you have friends that have cars that'll take you from place to place from time to time when you're going to go do it, do things with them and hang out with them. Um, but talk about work. Uh, how much earlier? Is it inconvenient? I mean, because I know that you don't work in Pacific beach and San Diego is extraordinarily spread out. Uh, really. So what is it, how long , uh, is it an inconvenience? Just getting to work every day ?

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah, what's your routine?

Dan Hubbard:

Yeah, so I leave my house at 6:30 AM. Uh , there's one bus that goes up Garnett, which turns into Balboa , uh , to Kearny Mesa. It's, I get to there at seven o'clock, maybe 7:05 AM, so to half an hour on the bus. And then my choices are, because it drops me about a mile from work. So I either walk down the Hill, which I did for many, many years. It's a great walk. Takes about 25 minutes all downhill and then, or I can Uber it, which is about a five, $6 Uber to the office. And it depends on, you know, how I'm feeling, what the weather is. Uh, so I spend $4 on the bus and a $6 Uber's $10 a day to get to work if I Uber. Otherwise that's about it .

Chase Peckham:

Quick . [inaudible] so quick math, $10 it's $10 a day, is it ? But it's $10 to get there and $10 to get home. Correct.

Dan Hubbard:

I know it's $10 total. Oh yeah. Cause I'll, I'll usually get a ride from somebody , uh , to the bus stop. Who's going up the hill.

Felipe Arevalo:

I was gonna say you don't go up that hill do you?

Dan Hubbard:

No, I have I have. It's actually a great walk.

Felipe Arevalo:

It's a great workout.

Dan Hubbard:

Burns a lot of calories. Oh yeah. It is a great walk. But I have, I have friends here who are on the way home and I'll get dropped off on Balboa and just catch a bus right there, which is from there. It's about 15 minutes home. So or I go up . It's a longer walk and it's great exercise, but you know, when it's really hot out, it's not the best thing to do. But I've done it.

Felipe Arevalo:

That's really interesting, the fact that, so when it rains, you know , we're in San Diego, it doesn't always rain. Uh , that obviously has to throw a wrench in your plans. Does it, is it just something where you just decide today I'm taking an Uber?

Dan Hubbard:

Yeah. If it rains a witch , it's, we're coming up on in the next couple of months, months, rainy season here. Uh, I will definitely Uber , uh, either way. And an Uber to my house from the office about $12 to $13, which isn't bad. No, it's, my office to my house is about seven miles , uh , on the road. So it's not bad at all. Uh , but when it does rain, it adds about an hour to my commute in either direction because just the rain and flooding and especially where we're at. I mean, you know where your office is just gets really, really bad, especially if we get a lot of rain.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah, you can. That Balboa , was it Balboa and mercury intersection tends to flood from time to time.

Dan Hubbard:

Oh yeah.

Chase Peckham:

So I think a lot of people who are native Californians who are listening to this would say, Oh, there's no way I could ever live without a car. And I'll be honest with you, I don't think, I mean I just don't know any different. Um, what would you say you save every month by not owning a car? And I guess we could just go off the car that you owned prior to moving to San Diego.

Dan Hubbard:

Yeah, I think I have to remember what car that was. I think I had a Mustang, but I'd paid for it. I think I paid like three or four grand for it. So I did have a monthly payment that was paid off. But you figure your insurance, which I haven't had insurance in awhile , but it's probably.

Chase Peckham:

probably in the 200 a month area. A hundred and so , yeah.

Dan Hubbard:

So just figure that. And I had gas and I had potential car repairs. I mean all of that. I mean I was spending, I wow, I'd have to think $300, $400 a month probably in vehicle expenses with insurance, gas and stuff like that .

Felipe Arevalo:

That's true. Cause you never have to replace tires or.

Dan Hubbard:

Nope

Felipe Arevalo:

breaks or your car never breaks down. If the bus breaks down, they send another one to get you guys and you carry on your way.

Chase Peckham:

I just spent $500 getting my car repaired the other day. So Dan, you're onto something.

Dan Hubbard:

Yeah. And I actually have told, I've, I have a couple of friends who live in Pacific beach and told them what I do and a couple of them have sold their cars.

Chase Peckham:

You're kidding me.

Dan Hubbard:

I'm dead serious A buddy of mine had a Jeep and he had, he didn't move it for a month. He was like, why do I want a car? I go, exactly.

Chase Peckham:

Does he work in PB ?

Dan Hubbard:

Oh he actually works for, it's interesting cause you probably know a lot of the people he works with, he works for ESPN and he does a lot of , uh, audio for a lot of the major events.

Chase Peckham:

Oh, okay. So he's down at Petco a lot?

Dan Hubbard:

Yeah, he does Petco. He does golf tournaments. He travels a lot. He's gone to Hawaii for golf tournaments . Arizona. He's , he started out with ESPN and he's kind of a a contractor.

Chase Peckham:

Sure. Freelancer we call them in the biz.

Dan Hubbard:

He spends a lot of his time on the road.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah. Yeah. Freelancer, they , they do that a lot. There's a lot of those guys that are in that camera in the mobile media, sports type of things. Events. Yeah. That's cool. And I guess that makes sense for as somebody who if, and he's on the road a lot already.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah, it would be interesting to see how it could be, I guess the way your lifestyle set up with, you know, work being so close to home. It's almost something where you have to, you'd have kind of have to plan it out. For example, I don't know if there's a route or bus that Chase or I could take from where we live, different parts of the County, but out East to Kearny Mesa, I think my commute would be really long. I'd have to live somewhere where there is a , or I'd have to like take the trolley down to mission valley and then wait for a bus to bring me up the Hill because there's no way we're walking up that Hill.

Dan Hubbard:

Yeah, there's actually , um, a bus, the 928, which I actually took from , uh, outside of your office, which stops right there and uh , it goes to Fashion Valley. So you could actually take the trolley to fashion Valley and then take a bus and get off across the street from your office. I swear to you. Yeah, I've done it. I haven't gone to fashion Valley, but that's the one

Felipe Arevalo:

that's the line that goes down there .

Chase Peckham:

Nothing against fashion Valley.

Felipe Arevalo:

unless it's raining

Chase Peckham:

unless it's raining. Well, that's true. And I guess we should, Dan, you don't have a family currently, right? So you don't have children.

Dan Hubbard:

Ah, that's correct.

Chase Peckham:

What would you, and , and so when you're making decisions for yourself, that's one thing. Do you think that you would look at things differently with you did have a family?

Dan Hubbard:

Uh , I , I absolutely would look at things differently. I mean for me it's easy because I just have to worry about myself. So if I had a family, obviously, you know, I would have to worry about if I had to take them to school to practices , things like that. I don't think it would be very easy to do , um, if I had a family. But at this point it's, it's the best thing for me.

Chase Peckham:

Absolutely. How many, and you're not thinking anything different and you would you do the same if you were back in the Bay area again?

Dan Hubbard:

I probably would because , uh, I was just up there 4th of July and I was in the city and I walked everywhere I Ubered uh , to a fisherman's wharf. So it was, I mean, quite honestly, I wouldn't have wanted to drive there anyway because there was no parking, especially where I was going and it was, you know, five, 10 minute Uber ride. So yeah, being in San Francisco, if I still lived up there, I would definitely not have a car.

Chase Peckham:

Oh, it's , it's crazy. I mean it was crazy when I lived there in the early two thousands or excuse me, mid 1990s. Wow. I keep dating myself in the mid 1990s.

Felipe Arevalo:

Sarah and I went to San Francisco not - a few years ago and we brought Barrington . He was three, four at the time. Um, for someone who is a native San Diego , born and raised who's never done public transportation too much, maybe a trolley from East County to Petco. Um, it was looking at the lines and the different options was a little overwhelming.

Chase Peckham:

It can be. But San Francisco, I mean it's set up for that. I mean it's really good.

Felipe Arevalo:

They have apps now. That's actually how I succeeded is that I don't remember exactly which app it is anymore cause I deleted it. Uh, cause don't use it here in San Diego. But there was an app where you can, it has GPS so it knows where you're at and you tell it where you're going. I want to go to the fisherman's Wharf and then it tells you go outside, walk three blocks South to stop number three, four, five, whatever the stop number is. And wait for your buses that arrive in two minutes, 12 minutes and 22 minutes or whatever the intervals are. So you walk, you walk yourself down there, it tells you turn here and it's tracking you. You wait for the bus, you get on the bus and then once you're on it, it'll tell you in five stops, get off at stop number.

Chase Peckham:

Wow.

Felipe Arevalo:

So It's very, anyone can do it type of thing.

Chase Peckham:

That's crazy. Is there anything like that in San Diego? Dan?

Dan Hubbard:

Uh , I know the San Diego, MTS, which is the bus line here. And the trolley line, they have an app as well. Um, and you can actually, the interesting thing is that every stop you can , uh , text , uh , you have a stop number to a specific, you can actually text , um, to this number and it'll tell you the next time the bus is going to be there. Every stop has it. It's crazy. A lot of people don't realize that.

Felipe Arevalo:

I totally didn't realize it.

Chase Peckham:

I had no idea. And probably because.

Felipe Arevalo:

Haven't jumped on a bus in awhile?

Chase Peckham:

I haven't, I've never ridden a bus in San Diego.

Dan Hubbard:

Yeah. If you go buy a a bus stop, just look up at the sign and it'll say text like two, three, four, five, six stop number two this and it'll text you back. The next bus is here in eight minutes or whatever it is. It's unbelievable.

Chase Peckham:

That is amazing.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah, no clue.

Chase Peckham:

Very convenient.

Felipe Arevalo:

That's a cool feature.

Chase Peckham:

It's a very convenient, do you see yourself using, do you ever use the trolley?

Dan Hubbard:

I do. And actually , uh , they're expanding the trolley right now from old town.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah. All the way up North. Yeah.

Dan Hubbard:

Which is going to be great. And there's gonna be a stop on Balboa right into Pacific beach. And then the next one they're talking about is getting a trolley line all the way to the beach, which is probably many years away. But that'll, I mean that would be incredible if you could just jump on the trolley and I get to old town or to Petco park from there.

Chase Peckham:

Can you imagine a fight that the people that live at the beach are gonna fall out ? That's going to be, yeah , that's going to be a doozy.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah it's going to take while .

Chase Peckham:

Yeah, I would. And especially here in California and nothing gets done very quickly. Nothing. So Dan, last thing that , that I have, would you say that you have far less stress , um, in not having a vehicle 24 hours a day , uh, then you would then by having to just find public transportation?

Dan Hubbard:

I have pretty much no stress without having a vehicle. I mean, if it rains, I'm going to Uber to work or Uber anywhere else. Um , I don't have to, don't have the headache of worrying about if I have enough money for gas today, anything like that. You don't have to worry about parking. I, you know , my day is pretty regimented. It's so I know exactly when I need to be there. So it's, there's zero stress and I can read a book on the, on the bus, on the way to work and just relax.

Chase Peckham:

And if people pull a last minute happy hour, you can say yes and you can have as many drinks as you'd like because you don't have a car that you need to get home.

Dan Hubbard:

Exactly. Or a family.

Chase Peckham:

yeah. Well, all right . So yeah, I guess we could look at it a couple of different ways there. Good way. Yeah. Well, Dan, beautiful. Thank you very much for joining us today. We really appreciate it. And you've given me, even though we ribbed you about it for so long, you've really given me some or given us some great insight into the life of somebody as Southern Californian , California and in general without a vehicle, because there aren't many of them.

Dan Hubbard:

Yeah, it's been my pleasure. Hopefully people will get something out of it.

Chase Peckham:

Probably get rid of their car.

Dan Hubbard:

Yeah, it'll definitely save the environment.

Chase Peckham:

Oh, and then there's that. We see that's a whole different podcast, whole different podcast . All right, Dan, thank you so much.

Dan Hubbard:

You're welcome. Have a good one.

Felipe Arevalo:

Appreciate it.

Chase Peckham:

All right , and now we'll follow up with myself, Phil and Katie. Dan Hubbard. Man, I tell you what, I love him to death.

Felipe Arevalo:

We've known him for a while.

Chase Peckham:

I've known him for a long time now. I still can't live without a car. I could not live without a car.

Felipe Arevalo:

But he kind of explained to us how you can in Southern California go, Oh, it's 15 years. Yeah. Without a car.

Chase Peckham:

I was drinking the Kool-aid for a little while, but I would imagine in the way he lives his , I mean I was impressed. I mean we've made fun of him for a long time. Like, okay, let's take Dan to the bus stop. But I think he's laughing at us cause who's spending way less money getting around enjoying himself? Probably a little bit more because where are lot of are complaining about traffic. Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo:

And he's sitting there reading his book.

Chase Peckham:

Fair enough. Fair enough. Katie .

Katie Utterback:

Yes.

Chase Peckham:

Dan Hubbard has no car. Could you do it?

Felipe Arevalo:

Katie doesn't have kids, so that would be perfect. Great .

Katie Utterback:

I think it depends on what you're doing in life. So when I was in college, I did not have a car. I , um, went to school in Saint Paul, Minnesota. I worked in Minneapolis. I, there was a free college commuter bus that I could take between the two, which is like a 20 minute drive and I would have somebody come pick me up at a bus station or I would take the bus and it would take me to the suburbs and I could get dropped off at a bus parking center thing over there. The problem was if the timing didn't line up, I could maybe be stuck somewhere for three or four hours.

Felipe Arevalo:

Oh see. That's very inconvenient.

:

Same when I lived in Washington DC , the Metro didn't always run so I didn't have a car and sometimes they would take me all day to run one errand. So I think it depends where you live, how much you're earning, how hard is it to get around, how often do you have to get around?

Felipe Arevalo:

That's true. Well, knowing kind of the general area where Katie lives , um, and then listening to Dan and his route, I'd say the PR, you probably pull it off Katie.

Katie Utterback:

So I actually, I looked into the bus cause I live close enough to work. It's about a 10 to 15 minute drive in the morning does there's nobody awake. Right . But to get here at 7:00 AM I would have to leave at 4: 30 AM in the morning.

Felipe Arevalo:

Really?! Even at your current place?

Katie Utterback:

That is not realistic.

Felipe Arevalo:

Here's the thing Dan does and that little Uber drive, yeah. Can cut your time in like half like he was saying and he, the bus drops him off kind of a ways from work, but on days where he doesn't feel like walking uphill or downhill, depending on which way he's going, he can take a $2 Uber ride and that saves him that hour.

Katie Utterback:

That's true. That's true. But then it goes back to for me, like I'm an hourly employee. If I'm not here and at my designated time, that could be a problem for me financially. If I was taking an Uber and it canceled on me, that's too much. That's too much for me.

Felipe Arevalo:

The funny thing though with Dan is that he is one of the most punctual.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo:

On time people that we've worked with.

Chase Peckham:

I don't think I've ever seen him late.

Felipe Arevalo:

Never seen him late. I never see him running into things. Dan's always there before us unless he's getting a ride with us. He has a system figured out where it really works for him and he's really good at it because he can kind of , you know, when interacting with him and like, well how would I get to a Padre game? Well you see, you'd go down to the bus, stop down half the block and then you jump on such and such bus line and then that'll bring you to fashion Valley. And then from fashion Valley you can jump on this trolley line that comes about every fifteen minutes and he has it all mapped out. It's really impressive when you hear him talking about how well he's his commutes and he, how he can , uh , plan them out almost without an app, without a map because he's just been doing it for so long.

Katie Utterback:

I think if it works for you, go for it. I am a huge fan of mass transit for the environmental reasons. If I, if it was actually helpful, I would use it. I don't think that it's a realistic thing to catch a bus at four 30 in the morning to get to an office 10 minutes away by car.

Chase Peckham:

And we're in Southern California. The mindset is so different than say if you're even you're in DC or a major metropolitan city.

Katie Utterback:

here, people are not looking for people crossing the street like pedestrians. We're not necessarily.

Chase Peckham:

Are you saying that New York city, they're looking for people crossing the street.

Katie Utterback:

No, and I have a story about that, which we can talk about off air, but Washington D C I just came back, right? Washington DC. I just came back from there . Like again, they have mass transit but it's not necessarily convenient. It was almost a mile from our hotel to the nearest Metro stop. It was 97 degrees one day plus humidity. I am not a cool person. Like I get hot and sweaty and I don't want to look like that when I'm walking in meeting somebody.

Chase Peckham:

Right.

Katie Utterback:

So there's like certain challenges I think.

Felipe Arevalo:

And he did mention weather . We're lucky here in San Diego that we don't have that two months of 90 degree, 90 plus degrees with the humidity. And then we don't have the , the , the two months of snow and the two months of rain where he mentioned, you know, here , yeah. Rain sometimes so that he just bites the bullet. Takes an Uber to work. Yeah. And as long as the streets aren't flooded, which happened here in San Diego, from time to time we don't get a lot of rain, but when it does, it can, it can flood. Um, you know, other than that he has, he just knows it's raining. I'm going to get an Uber today.

Katie Utterback:

You know, there's another, a guy that I met at FinCon. He's also from San Diego. His name is Robert Farrington. He , uh, runs the website, the college investor. He also does not have a car. He has children. He uses an Uber. Um, but he predominantly works from home. He's his own employer. So he was saying he, his schedule is more forgiving if he can't get into the office right away or if he needs to work remotely. So it was, if you have that kind of flexible work situation,

Chase Peckham:

it can work.

Katie Utterback:

It's something to look into.

Felipe Arevalo:

having kids I think makes it now it's maybe coming from a mindset where I just, you always drive places, but having kids makes it , uh, so much as so much more of a challenge. Cause now there's other little activity things that you have to go out and do. Yeah. Practices you got back to school nights you have , um, where you have more possible outings aside from work and grocery stores and those kinds of things.

Katie Utterback:

So even beyond that, I get kind of freaked out sometimes by my Uber drivers. I don't know about you guys. They're not the best drivers in the world. I don't know if I would put my baby in the back of an Uber like that.

Felipe Arevalo:

I have had some Uber drivers and you're like, Oh no.

Chase Peckham:

Um , I haven't, I've been really lucky that way.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah. And I just tuck my kids in an Uber plenty of times for which reasons I shall be quiet. But I do, I think Uber is a great thing and we could have a whole different conversation. Just based on what passed in the California assembly or excuse me, California Senate today Ubering may become, and Lyft might be a completely different thing coming up for us here in California.

Katie Utterback:

The whole gig economy.

Chase Peckham:

might be, may not be affordable anymore. So, but,

Felipe Arevalo:

but Dan was telling us he started doing this before Uber. Lyft, yeah. And he was just taking cabs right when cabs were more prevalent. Um, but you know, so it can be done even without the Uber Lyft thing.

Katie Utterback:

I was in Washington DC before Uber and Lyft was like a thing, so it was taxi cabs.

Chase Peckham:

So it is interesting. San Diego as of the 2000, the 2015 law , the census , um, 6.6% of San Diego, San Diego households did not own a vehicle.

Katie Utterback:

that was 2015?

Chase Peckham:

2015. Correct.

Katie Utterback:

I wonder if it's increased.

Chase Peckham:

That's the most recent census data we have.

Felipe Arevalo:

I didn't think it was that many. But we do have a big college population, whereas Katie is mentioning that could have, that can skew the numbers. If you go to SDSU and you live in the college area, you're going to , it's going to take longer to find a parking spot than it would be to just walk a mile to school.

Katie Utterback:

Well, actually, because of the parking situation at SDSU and to try to encourage freshmen to be on campus more, they put a block this year, so no freshmen can have a car on campus. It was either SDSU or USD.

Chase Peckham:

University of San Francisco. We couldn't have cars as freshmen.

Katie Utterback:

Okay. Actually we couldn't have cars either at my school, so yeah ,

Chase Peckham:

we had to live on campus for two years, the whole deal, but in speaking of San Francisco 31.2% in 2015 I had no vehicles. Households had no vehicle .

Felipe Arevalo:

I could see it.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah, it makes sense. Their mass transit is phenomenal.

Felipe Arevalo:

The BART, the buses, the even the old school, a cable cars are still a reliable transportation beans in San Francisco, assuming you're honestly one of those two lines.

Chase Peckham:

Mostly tourists that take that thing now. But yeah, I mean there's an abundance everywhere. Cabs , everywhere.

Felipe Arevalo:

We went to San Francisco not a few years ago. It was my first, well aside from a couple of visits to DC in New York city and whatnot. But that was the first time I tried mass transit with kids. So much easier with your buddies, but with kids who need car seats. Yeah. Cause then you can't just be out in the middle of the town and be like, you know what? I'm going to jump on an Uber real quick. No, you got to work your way back with the bus that you got there with because you didn't bring your car seat and you can't just carry around a car seat everywhere you go.

Chase Peckham:

I mean, typography has a lot to do with it too. I mean, San Francisco, such a small city, it's seven miles by seven miles that although lots of people do, they do bring a lot of communities together. I mean, Bart system, the whole Bay area is very well linked. Uh, you know, Los Angeles, you talk about something like that and we're talking huge city,

Katie Utterback:

huge spread.

Chase Peckham:

Nobody takes, I don't want to say nobody, some people do, but vast majority of them are on freeways than in the, I mean for the longest time I didn't even know that Los Angeles had a Metro . Yeah . And let me know because I see it when I go to Pasadena on the 210. Yeah . Right there on there . Yeah . You see it above ground , right ? Yeah. That is true. In San Diego. We don't have anything like that. We do have a trolley system. Um,

Felipe Arevalo:

it's expands expanding , uh , like how Dan so excited in the right places or not. But yeah, someone like Dan he even mentioned you could take public transportation up to LA and we tried it when we went to the conference in LA a few years ago. Taking the , the train up is actually quite nice compared to driving and you sit there and you stare at the traffic that stopped on the five and you're just going full speed. Yeah. Um , so on a traffic day, on a regular day , Dan could get to LA faster than any one of us in our car.

Chase Peckham:

I mean he takes him $10 a month around to get to work. So that's $30 a month, right? Just to get to work. Let's say he gets around every once in a while . Yeah. It's $10 a day. Oh, I'm sorry. $300.

Felipe Arevalo:

300 yeah.

Chase Peckham:

300 man, I can't do math. Can I ? $300 a month. Um ,

Katie Utterback:

that's more expensive than I thought you were gonna say

Chase Peckham:

yeah, you say it out loud, but then you think about how much I gas cost . But yeah. So then you've got on top, let's just say whatever car payment we have, then you have gas on top of that with which what it is. Then you talk about parking that you gotta pay for it certain points. And if you're in PB or you're in certain areas of town, you have to pipe pay for a permit that allows you to park per month. Um, San Francisco is huge like that. Um , I am still not sold on that. In fact that it saves you that much money depending on the car you have or if you just literally wanted to get around and you had to let it now for him, it makes his life easier. But I honestly don't know if this is something that you would need to do because you're trying to save money. Like if we were you and I, we helped people put budgets together all the time. You just specially , you almost never, you're going to say you need to get rid of your car and Uber everywhere.

Felipe Arevalo:

No, I may have at times said , uh, you maybe shouldn't have purchased that expensive of vehicle.

Chase Peckham:

that's a different ballgame,

Felipe Arevalo:

but rarely what I'd say, I dunno if I've ever said get rid of your car. I have, however, had friends who I know enjoy bicycling, I can't stand the idea of taking a bike and going places and they're like, how can I save a little money? Why don't you ride your bike to work once a week? Cut your gas ex expense by 20%.

Chase Peckham:

you're going to put your kid on the back of your bike.

Felipe Arevalo:

Well, no, this is like my friends on their way to work who don't have kids. Who can literally cut their gas expense by 20% by just riding their bike to work. Something that they enjoy. And they live in though , like the LA Mesa area, they work down the street. It's their exercise that they go do after work anyways, they'll go jump on their bike and cruise around on it.

Chase Peckham:

My biggest fears, I'm going to get cracked by a car.

Felipe Arevalo:

Oh, I wouldn't do it. And there's some really scary parts you wouldn't catch me on a bike. But to them that's something they do as exercise. Like on the weekends, Hey, let's go do a bike ride and ride the bike down to point Loma to the stone brewery. And that to me sounds like a horrible idea. Um , but to them that's something enjoyable. And I've met them down there and I take an Uber or sure know , but.

Katie Utterback:

I love it. You just show up in your Uber.

Felipe Arevalo:

and they've got their biking gear on and there's been times where I might show up and because I'm not drinking for whatever reason, might just go in and eat. And then we ended up trying to figure out how to disassemble their bike and stick it in my trunk and give him a ride home. But you know, there are ways around it, but it really isn't for every lifestyle.

Chase Peckham:

No, I agree with that. And I, like I said, you can use a vehicle just to get around and then there's vehicle that you enjoy sitting in and it's a status and whatever it might be. So I don't think there's right or wrong. I think it works for Dan. I think it works for a lot of people and you know, depending on where I had to do it, I mean the only time I can remember ever doing it was living in San Francisco for three out of the five years I was in San Francisco. I didn't have a car either. I had a girlfriend that had a car, but for a lot, I mean I took a lot of transportation there. Um, I still personally don't, I wouldn't do it.

Katie Utterback:

You know, I think I spent more money when I didn't have a car. Then when I do or like did, cause then what did I do at groceries? Delivered. I'm not going up and down the aisle so I'm just adding things to a cart. How much easier is it to add to an online cart, you know?

Chase Peckham:

And it depends on where you live. Is it easy walking wherever you're going to go.

Felipe Arevalo:

See. I almost think I'd save on groceries by working them really. Cause then you have your list, you search your grapes, and then you add the grapes lot to be said for that. And then we can do a whole podcast on that.

Chase Peckham:

A lot to be said for that. [inaudible] [inaudible] .