#046: Managing Your Finances During and After Trauma with Kylie Travers

Child abuse. Warfare. Assault. A devastating accident. If you have endured one or more life-threatening events, you may be more likely to make destructive money decisions.

Researchers discovered that post-traumatic stress alters the way a person thinks and reacts to situations, including financial behavior. In other words: “Traumatic experiences cause our brain to overreact. They force us into a stress mode where we are compelled to take action as a protective measure."

One of the most common ways our financial stress manifests is in the form of oppressive credit card debt. 

Having overcome homelessness, domestic violence, health issues including paralysis and extreme pain, Kylie Travers knows firsthand how difficult life can be and joins us to share exactly how she changed her mental mindset and improved her financial situation several times over the years.

About Kylie Travers
Kylie Travers is based in Melbourne, Australia with her two young daughters. She went from homeless single mother to multiple international award-winning CEO, author, speaker, and ambassador in the space of a few years.

Connect with Kylie on her website The Thrifty Issue. Or on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

About The Show
To learn more about DebtWave Credit Counseling, visit our website or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.

To learn more about the San Diego Financial Literacy Center, visit our website or connect with us on Facebook and Twitter.

Transcript

Intro: 0:00

Welcome to Talk Wealth, to Me, a safe space podcast, where we chat about anything and everything related to personal finance.

Felipe Arevalo: 0:16

The information contained in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It does not constitute as accounting, legal tax or other professional advice.

Chase Peckham: 0:29

Hello, and welcome to another edition of Talk Wealth To me this week, we went all the way down to Australia. The other side of the world to speak to someone who is truly one of the most inspirational guests people I've ever met. Really she's a CEO, author, speaker, and ambassador. She is an inspirational speaker. She came from basically nothing. She persevered and she is Kylie Travers,

Katie Utterback: 1:02

Kylie, I think the best way we could ever kick off a discussion on how hard or difficult it may be to manage your finances when you've experienced a trauma or you're going through a trauma would be to share a little bit of your story. So would you mind just kind of, for those who may recognize your name or people who don't know your story, can you just kind of share what kind of got you into finances and what really kind of opened up your eyes to the difficulties of managing your finances when you're going through a trauma?

Kylie Travers: 1:36

Sure. I, I grew up in a family that was always very open about money. So I always had an interest in finance. Uh, it wasn't until I was around 25 and I started writing about money. So I set a goal to be a millionaire. By the time I was 30, I was just sort of blogging. And then I was offered a book contract and I was a finalist for, um, best international, personal finance blog. And all of that gave me the confidence to leave my abusive marriage. Um, I had two young daughters at the time and was obviously married, but it was a really awful marriage. And upon leaving the marriage, I, um, we ended up homeless for a while. I was robbed of everything, including my underwear. So I was literally starting from scratch or I had virtually no income happening. My daughters also were diagnosed with, um, special needs at the time. So they needed a lot of speech therapy and psychology and, and lots of extra work. And so in the middle of all this trauma, trying to deal with, um, you know, the police and the court around, um, the abuse and the divorce and all that sort of stuff and not having anywhere to live in stability and trying to manage your finances. Um, it was really eye opening for me because I had come from a background that, uh, my parents were fairly frugal, but, you know, we'd grown up in a really, very religious home. So within a church and a strong community, and if anybody was lacking, there was always somebody there to support you and that sort of thing. And then all of a sudden I found myself in a state all alone, um, being stalked by my ex husband with two young girls to support who had extra needs. And that's when I sort of really saw things from, I guess, another perspective and just how difficult it could be. And that really inspired the change for me. It was sort of from that point that I was more focused on, um, sharing, sharing my story to help others, but also providing all the resources that I could find to particularly aimed at Australian. So like about our welfare system and what's available and connecting more with, um, those sorts of people and showing how you can manage your money, even in those really traumatic moments and how to rebuild from that point, because that can sometimes be the hardest point. You sort of don't know where to start when you're in survival mode and what to do. And so, um, yeah, I sort of went on from there and, and as a result of that, I ended up being connected with a lot of, um, government agencies asking me to do marketing work and writing work and ended up founding a company which I sold later and won a bunch of awards and stuff. So I sort of really went from rock bottom up to a level that I, um, did not expect at all. And so the lifestyle that my daughter's and I have now is I'm fairly free and fairly relaxed, but I'm still really passionate and focused on empowering others through financial independence.

Katie Utterback: 4:16

Well, and let's, let's talk about that because it seems like, especially with the coronavirus, a lot of us are now recognizing we may have some sort of financial trauma that's affecting our ability to manage our finances. And the stay-at-home orders, at least in the United States have kind of acted like a pressure cooker of sorts and have really exposed a lot of pain points for people and just issue that. I think a lot of us maybe didn't recognize we had. Um, and I noticed that it's like the conversation is becoming more open now and people are willing to talk about it more. How long did it take you to maybe recognize that my trauma, what my experiences of what I'm going through may be affecting my ability to make my goal of becoming a millionaire by the time I'm 30,

Kylie Travers: 5:08

uh, F for me, it was kind of straight away because, uh, in a marriage we'd owned a house in Sydney and, um, you know, he worked full time and I was obviously doing the blogging thing, but that was not making a full time income yet. And I had the girls that I was taking care of full time, that sort of thing. So just the act of leaving him and being robbed of everything. It was, I sort of looked at it all and went, I've got no idea how I'm gonna manage my finances, how I'm going to be able to afford for my daughters to get the treatment that they needed, because that's not cheap. It costs more than rent, um, to get them the treatment they needed. And so, if, so for me, it was pretty much automatic because I, um, when I, when I left him, it was within a week that I was robbed of everything, including my underwear, so it's like, there's not a lot of time to process and it all happens very quickly. You of realized I'm well, for lack of a better word, I sort of looked at him so screwed right now. But, um, I, well, one of the things I did, like on the night I was robbed, I actually wrote a list of reasons. I could be grateful. So, um, Oh, it's list of gratitude and why could be grateful that I was robbed. And once I started focusing on the better things and the benefits that could come from these major obstacles and looking at the lessons that I could learn from it, um, it was a lot easier to focus on my money and focus my life and sort of really change things around. Um, I think for a lot of people at the moment, given the huge, uh, change worldwide is that, uh, people just were not prepared, uh, here in Australia. And from what I've read in most countries around the world is everybody was basically a paycheck away from being homeless. Uh, we have massive levels of debt which have continued to increase, um, the stimulus checks that most people have gotten because Australia did, did that sort of thing as well is, um, great. But what they've found is, uh, one of the things that government allowed us to do was access our retirement funds early. So we were allowed to access up to 10,000. Um, the results that have come from that recently is that they found that most people spent the money on, um, pizza, alcohol and gambling. So it was only, yeah. Yeah. So I, I think that because our government has been handing out so much money, um, because we get, we actually get, if you own a business, there's a job keep a payment, which is like 750 a week. There's 550 a week extra is going to, um, or a fortnight I'll have to double check if that was weekly or biweekly, um, going to people on welfare payments. Um, we got, yeah, like extra payments and all of that sort of money thrown at us. And so I don't think that people in Australia in particular have really taken a look at their finances, whereas a lot of people, my friends in America and like in the islands, we have a lot of family in Vanuatu and the Solomons, um, they've all lost their jobs because they were all, uh, very tourism based, um, industries. But, but again, people just sort of didn't have that, um, financial education didn't really think about things. So now that it's all happening, it's, um, quite traumatic and people aren't quite sure which direction to go, but I feel like a lot of Australians are, um, skating through not realizing yet how serious it's going to get for them because the payments from the government I'll stop in a few months. And they're all going to be not in a great position, having spent their retirement on pizza, booze and gambling. So yeah,

Chase Peckham: 8:25

I have a giant pit in my stomach from what you just said, that, that kind of freaks me out. Cause we talk about that all the time. Even in normal quote unquote, I'm raising my fingers in the air normal times is, is working to create a three to six month living expenses of income that in case something like this does happen. Um, and, and of course, more than half of our country in the US does not have that. And you're right. Paycheck to paycheck. When you went through that and love the idea that you, you, you did the gratitude, um, yeah. Cause it kind of puts your brain kind of in perspective, right. It kind of just that, that, that impulse of fight fight or flight comes into play and it kind of gets you back regularly to think about, cause sometimes people can be overwhelmed by money. Right?

Kylie Travers: 9:15

Well, absolutely. So when you're in that sort of position, you aspire like with the negative thinking you spiral down really quickly. Whereas if you can just focus on, even if you can just like three, three things to be grateful for, or like some opportunity or a lesson or something that can come from whatever's happening that alone can sort of get you out of that spiral and help you focus on your money situation a whole lot better

Chase Peckham: 9:35

after you wrote that list. And you kind of got yourself in a frame of mind, sometimes that can be fleeting. That can make you feel good in a while, but then you wake up the next morning and you go, Oh my God, I'm still in this situation. It's not a dream. How did you keep that positive flow going to get to, to really still take care of your finances, but then get, find that road, you know, that, that roadmap, so to speak to, to where you wanted to go.

Kylie Travers: 10:00

Um, honestly it was a roller coaster. So there was, um, I tried to be positive with most of the time, but obviously there were times where I was just sobbing on the bathroom floor or over the situation. I had a few, uh, quotes or mantras that I would use. Uh, one is, I am not what happened to me. I am what I choose to become like how powerful and that one, especially when I was like crying my heart out, I would repeat it over and over and over in my head until I stopped crying. Um, so I used that there was, um, another one was, uh, what would you do if you knew you could not fail and luck is where opportunity meets preparation. So those were the three quotes that I sort of clung to a lot. I, um, had like a vision board up. It had what I call a motivation walls. So there was the vision board I had, um, my calendar printed out up there. So I was writing out what I was doing, different quotes. I had a savings graph, like all that sort of stuff was, was off of my wall, which, I mean, we were moving a lot at that point. So obviously it was getting moved around, but I also did, um, I write my goal was get permanent marker on my, um, window windows and mirrors. So every time I went to the bathroom, like, you know, washing my hands or doing my makeup, my goals were right there in front of me and permanent marker comes off very, very easily, but it doesn't just wipe off, like you have to do something to wipe it off, but if you use whiteboard marker, obviously anytime you wipe over the mirror, it goes away. So permanent marker made it more real. I changed all my passwords to be relevant to the goals and what I was working on. Uh, the background on all my devices, the screensavers and everything was all changed to be relevant towards what I was working towards. And I just tried to focus on what I really, really wanted because on top of everything that was happening, I lived in a very low socioeconomic area. And there's what we call tall poppy syndrome in Australia, which I'm sure happens elsewhere, but I've seen it the worst here in that when you're trying to, um, better your situation, uh, lots of people like to cut you down. And so they don't want you to be the tall poppy essentially. And I had everybody around me, all the moms at my daughter's school. Um, all of those people that, that lived close to me were, um, quite negative and telling me, stop trying to change your situation so much. Like just, um, you know, the government's going to give you money for being a single mom. So just to be happy with that. And I was not in the fact that, um, you know, not having an emergency fund made me really uncomfortable. They were like, that's stupid. You can always just get more money from the government. And I'm like, that's not a way to live. You, you know, like there's so many things available to improve your situation. Um, so I just, I really focused on that. And I think at the beginning too, um, I, my first goal was just to get back to where my family lives. So I was living in Sydney and they didn't really know what was going on because I was a bit too proud to tell them, um, so that's why we sort of were homeless. Um, but my, my first goal was just to get back to Canberra where they were, which is a three hour drive away. And so having that sort of small first goal that was quite tangible, made it a lot easier to focus. And then once I was there, um, it was so much easier because then I had the support of my family. I had people that believed in me and I was able to rebuild a lot easier in an environment where I supported versus what I had.

Chase Peckham: 13:11

Yeah. You just summed up. If I could do a big, long, giant hug around the world, I would, because what you just described in about two minutes is everything that our organization is trying to promote and trying to, to, to do, uh, and, and what we teach. And we teach about goal setting. We teach about writing it down. We teach about, I could see Felipe over there, just nodding the Sharpie because those things they do become real. And if they're in your face every day, they help you make the right decisions based on what you're trying to strive for. And, and even though it can seem so far away, if it's right there in front of you and you go, you know what, I'm not going to go out with my friends for pizza tonight, because I want to do this here. That's where that$25 is going to go. That helps every little bit, not only that, but you're going to go to bed that night, feeling much better about yourself, that you didn't go get that pizza, because if you did break down and go do that, you're going to go, Oh, I completely took a step back. And then there's a whole mental, other side of it. That that is that's. Gosh, I'm glad we're recording this both on zoom and on our podcast. Um, and then the other thing you said, which I almost started crying, but the socioeconomic community that you were living in. And I think that that is, it's like that here in the US it's it's universal. Um, and that, that, it's just that the people don't want to feel like that you are, that you should think that you're better than them. And that's really not on you for thinking that way, that aren't, that's on you for thinking personally on how to build for yourself.

Kylie Travers: 15:02

And it's usually not about them at all. It's just, this is the life I want for myself. So that's what I'm going to work towards. But to them, it is to them. It's, it's taken very personally, yes, because, Oh, how dare you say that? You're better than me. And, and if, if, if you're, if everybody thought that I have the ability I have in Australia in the U S in, in, in, in, in countries that are free, that you can make decisions for yourself, you can work to better your situation. And if you got over the thinking of the government's going to be there to, to just protect you and help you, we would be a much better world. We would be a much happier world because we're taking care of ourselves. And not that those handouts shouldn't be there, they should, but they shouldn't be permanent. That's it. I'm incredibly grateful for the welfare system that we have here in Australia. I've read that we have one of the best welfare systems or particularly for disability. And, um, those sorts of things, which I am so grateful for, but situations like mine should not be a permanent one. They don't need to be, there is so much opportunity for free education, particularly in Australia for bettering yourself. It can be extremely difficult obviously with having children and that sort of thing. But if you know where you want to end up and you're taking what your step everyday to get to that position, that's so much better than just going. I'm going to sit on the government payments just because I can't, it's different. If, if you're in a situation such as like having disability or you're paralyzed, or, you know, like you, you genuinely are in a much more difficult situation, but for anybody that can, um, I think we're definitely like work towards what you want and what's out there. Um, there's very few cases that I've come across that genuinely couldn't do something to, to improve their situation.

Chase Peckham: 16:50

Yeah. Just the mindset. I mean, look, if I look at your face right now and you're glowing, right? And you can tell that you're well, you're, you can tell that here, look, we all have our stuff, but you look, you are stronger and better for what you went through and what you, the experiences we had and you and you, which is what I want to teach my children is what I want other people to learn is you learned from your experiences, you didn't let the experiences teach you, you learn from the experiences and made yourself better, and you took the steps and look at you now, look at the life you're leading. Now, if you would have listened to your community, you'd still be there and you wouldn't be talking to us right now. No, that's it.

Kylie Travers: 17:31

Well, I, I, I look, I actually look at who I was in my marriage and I don't even recognize myself there. Um, he'd grown up in that area. And so it was quite content there and often got frustrated with my, um, desire to, you know, like own rental properties and have shares and wanting to have a business and all this sort of stuff. And it's just like, we had so much opportunity to do so much better. And he was like, just be happy with what you've got. And I'm like, I was happy with certain aspects, but no. And then I just look at, um, I feel like back then I was really ungrateful about everything cause, well, I, um, I feel like I learned so much about, um, gratitude and resilience and, um, parenting as well, uh, through the whole process and my daughters and I are very close. I'm, I'm really grateful for that. And they've made a lot of interesting observations themselves about, um, how I've handled different situations, um, because, um, actually after, after I left and then when, after I founded the company and that sort of thing, so a couple of years after I left, I, um, ended up paralyzed for seven months on and off and with level 10 pain. So childbirth is level eight level tens where your body blacks out because it can't handle the pain. So I had that happening for, um, seven months and then, um, a year and a half after, after that, it happened again. And I was told that it was permanent. The doctor said that my myelin sheets were damaged and that I wouldn't be able to walk and I could just go on disability and I'm like, that's it, you're done. And I just absolutely refused to accept that. I mean, obviously when I was first starting, I burst into tears and I called my dad and I'm like, they said, I'm never going to walk properly. I'm going to be in this pain forever. And, um, my dad's amazing. He was really cool, really calm about everything. Jen was obviously a bit shocked. And then the next day I got up and I'm like, Nope, I refuse to accept that. Uh, the first time they couldn't work out why it was happening. Um, and I, so after, after seven months of all this going on, I had decided that I'm done. I'm not taking the painkillers and the, um, nerve blockers and everything anymore. I'm refusing to allow this to continue. I, um, read the book. Um, you can heal your life by Louise hay. And, um, started with like the positive affirmations. I looked up, um, eating plans for the auto immune disorders, um, and that sort of thing, and got health and really like clearing out my body in that. And I'm focused on that. And within a week I was back to normal walking in and that sort of thing, every time I'd get stressed, I'd get a little twinge in my back and realized that I needed to scale back and take care of myself again. And then the same thing, the second time I was paralyzed, um, and the doctors were like, it's, it's permanent. You're done. Um, same thing again, I looked up all this stuff and I go, no, ma'am no, if I've allowed myself to get way too stressed out. And my body's all out of balance, um, this is, this is definitely mindset. I've done it before I can do it again. Um, and I just focused every day and like, it, it was severe like the pain, like when you black out from pain and somebody walks in and finds you did on the floor basically. Um, it's quite confronting for them. And the, um, you know, I just, I had my daughters. Um, so the second time I was paralyzed, I was in another state again from my family. So I didn't have their support. It was just my daughters. And I, um, so thankfully I had taught them how to cook and clean and, and all that sort of stuff. But they were only like seven, eight, nine, that sort of thing. Like quite, quite young. Yeah. They're only 11 and 12 now. So that was 2017.

Chase Peckham: 20:52

My kids are the same age.

Kylie Travers: 20:55

Oh, really? That's cool.

Chase Peckham: 20:56

I have a 12 and 10 year old.

Kylie Travers: 20:58

Oh, nice. I do like these ages, but, um, yeah. Yeah. Like, and they, um, have both said that watching, watching me go through that and watching how I handled that, um, it's definitely left an impression on them, but at the same time, I don't think I would have managed that as well. If I hadn't gone through what I'd been through previously and already gone through the whole process change and focusing on gratitude and, you know, knowing that I can change my life completely. It's just, if you just have to focus on it and take the right steps and that sort of thing. And so yeah, fast forward to now, and I've not had any more issues with walking or the pain or any of that sort of stuff.

Chase Peckham: 21:35

Was it auto-immune that just came out of nowhere?

Kylie Travers: 21:39

Yeah. So the first time, um, it was, uh, two weeks after I turned 30, I bent over to pick up a boy Bobby pin and my back seized up, the muscles started crushing my spine. Um, and they did multiple tests. They never actually found out what it was. Um, they thought at the time it was, um, they had a heap of different varies, but everything came up negative, negative, negative. And the only thing I tested positive for during that time, uh, was the cancer my mother died from, which was completely separate to the back issue. That was my bladder. So I'd have been operation for that in the middle of all of this thing, never were able to pinpoint what exactly happened with my back. But the second time, um, I was in Melbourne, um, so different, different state, again, different city again. And, um, the doctors there ran some tests and they said it was actually the Marlin sheets that, um, what does it cover your nerves? Um, so like there's yeah, so that they were actually damaged. Um, and so that's why everything was like shorting out and not working and that sort of thing. And they said, there's nothing that can, um, so those were the nerves that are in your lower back and yeah, they're basically exposed, Oh God. Yeah. Yeah. And there's nothing that they could do about it, whereas what they said, which is why they were like, you're permanently damaged, that's it? You're done. I was like, I've dealt with,

Chase Peckham: 22:53

I've dealt with pinched nerves and I have bulging disc in my lower back. It's just over eight. And I go through kids and I'm sure if giving birth is an eight and what I'm having is a five, five is bad enough and I've had to fight through it. So I never, ever am getting even go to the, you know, even, even close to saying that this must be like childbirth because I watched my two kids get born or be born. And yeah. Yeah. So any pain I have it's it's under that.

Kylie Travers: 23:30

Oh, it was, it was funny. I remember I was in hospital for another thing, um, last year and they're like, Oh, what level of pain you at? And I'm like, um, Oh, it's about a six or a seven. And you're like, Oh, so not that bad. And I'm like, no, no, no. I've blacked out from pain, a level 10. I said, I'm well aware of what the levels actually are. That's different because most people are like, Oh my gosh, I'm at a 10. It's like, if you can speak, you are not at 10 or 10. Like if you can speak with scream or anything, you are like about an eight maximum. Um, yeah. And so when I was like, yeah, six or seven and like, I couldn't, like I was, I was in so much pain. I didn't want to move or anything like that.

Chase Peckham: 24:05

When you started to see success, when you started to see your company, um, bringing in income and you started to see yourself, how did you handle that? Because when you, it, it, it can be dicey when you go from one end of the spectrum and you start to gain momentum, and then you start leading into the other side, you can start to lose again, maybe the vision boards aren't quite as plentiful as they used to be. Do you know, what, how did you handle that? Yeah,

Kylie Travers: 24:32

I actually ended up with a lot of self doubt, um, and imposter syndrome and, and that sort of thing. So I, um, from, from the staff of the company had government contracts, like Australian government contracts and was, was doing quite well. And, um, it was actually that year that I was a finalist for young Australian of the year. So it was out for some pretty prestigious awards. And, um, I found it all a little bit overwhelming because I just didn't think that I could get to that. That was beyond what I had on my vision board, like, well, beyond where I thought I would, I would get to. And so it was, um, like confusing and confronting and that sort of thing. I was still volunteering in a homeless drop in center, and I was doing a lot of, um, advocacy work for the charities and that sort of thing here. So I think, uh, I was quiet levelheaded in the sense that I still had that very grounded sense of what it's, what it's like and what are the still like for, for a lot of Australians. Um, but at the same time too, I'd sort of go from, you know, volunteering in the dropping center and then I'm going from there to a meeting with CEOs about a whole bunch of stuff. And so it was quite, um, yeah, quite an overwhelming time, but ultimately I think, um, I made some bad decisions at that at that point. Um, I don't think knowing what I know now, I would definitely not do things the same way. I started seeing someone who, um, came across as being all like good and my daughters liked him and that sort of thing. But, um, I realized much later that he felt quite threatened by my success, um, particularly because we worked in the same industry. Um, so the fact that I was the CEO of the company and he had been trying to do this sort of thing for years and never got to the level that I was at, um, quite quickly. Um, so I didn't realize at the time that he was actually sabotaging me in, in many ways, um, I thought he was being supportive and he was not. And so, um, then it sort of undermined my confidence a lot at that time. And it wasn't really until after, um, he and I broke up like it was only going off again for three years, it was hopeless. And I actually sold the company whilst I was with him because of how bad it got between he and I over over my success and that sort of thing. I, um, really shrunk back when I was with him and yet, and it wasn't until I sort of left him and then looked back and just going home. Gosh, like I was, I was so confident before anymore. I was like nailing things. I was, you know, winning awards. I was up for so many things. I was working with CEO's and like we raised, um, during that time, um, right before I sort of got serious with him, we'd raised like 30 million for, um, ending homelessness and domestic violence through events that had spoken at and work that I'd done. So it wasn't like I wasn't fully capable, but I just sort of got to the point where, um, he made me doubt myself so much that I just sort of backed right off, but it's, um, it's interesting because I then took a lot of time for myself. I decided that's it I'm done. I'm not dating. I'm just going to focus on myself and my daughters. And, um, it was at that point where the custody battle got really, really nasty. And so I sort of focused on that and that sort of thing. And it was amazing, um, I guess sort of finding myself again and learning those lessons again and using them to then rebuild better. So now when I've been associating with like, you know, ambassadors and premiers and, um, CEO's, and that sort of thing, it's not overwhelming to me anymore. Whereas I think the first time around it happened so quickly that I had so much self doubt, whereas this time, um, I'm quite comfortable with it. Like, um, for example, when we went to the Solomon Islands, um, recently, like I've, I've been there regularly, but this last time I went there and it was, um, just to visit a family member. And on the first night there, um, we met like the premiers of the area and like the mayor and all this sort of stuff. And that was just totally normal and we're just sitting there and having drinks and it was completely comfortable with it. Whereas if that had happened like years prior back when I was first, um, moving up and having the company, it would have been, Oh my gosh, I can't believe that happened. I was like, yeah, that was cool. They were really lovely. Like we talked about this and, um, so I, I definitely think like, it, it changes over time as you get more used to it. But I think, um, in the beginning I needed to spend more time on building my own confidence. Um, I would have been much better had I had I focused on myself and my, um, confidence in sort of everybody, I think, doubts themselves at times. But I think I truly wasn't prepared for that at that at the first time.

Katie Utterback: 28:55

Well, I want to pull out what you said there too, because he gets more than just like our spouse at times, especially for women. Sometimes we don't want to earn more than our husband if especially you're in a heterosexual partnership, you do not necessarily want to be the breadwinner because it's going to complicate other things in your relationship, which is really weird. Like, why wouldn't you want your spouse or yourself as the female to make more money? Right. We're all working towards the same goal. Um, but I, I can even recognize this in my own life. I had a fear that I was going to do better than my parents. I was going to surpass them professionally or in my life. And then what, you know, and so that's just kind of where you're just reminding me of that. And I like you, I love Louise Hey, I do those affirmations. I just started so I'm not yet on your level, but there's, there's a weird thing that's been happening to me when I've been saying these money affirmations, which is, I don't necessarily believe them at first. And it's weird. It's weird to be saying like, like what you're saying before, I'm not what happened to me. I can do whatever I want. What is it I would do if I could do anything, sometimes the answer to that is surprising, but sometimes you find silence, like you're almost too afraid to say that answer.

Kylie Travers: 30:16

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It was. It's definitely at the beginning, you know, can feel really, really awkward, especially, um, when you're sitting like at rock bottom, like I was, and, you know, hiding and really unsure what to do to be saying, you know, that sort of really positive affirmations in the mirror. It's like, you know, um, money is attracted to me or like, you know, I manage my money really well and, you know, um, things about, or, you know, looking in the mirror and going, Oh, I make X income, that sort of stuff. And then like at the same time, I'd be like trying to say that out loud and in my heads going, no, you're not, no you're right. And that sort of thing. And it's hard to overcome that, but, um, you know, trying to really actively say it with conviction, um, helps a lot. And the more you do it, like the better you get at it. Um, and it, and it is interesting like how you were saying with the spouses and, um, that sort of thing. I've seen it in a lot of relationships where particularly women will be scared to out earn their husbands or their husbands feel threatened by, um, by someone who owns more than them. And, um, it's interesting cause I'm in a relationship now. Um, we met in 2018 and it's funny cause my, my daughters actually have made comments on the differences between when I was with her dad to when I was single to when I was with the previous boyfriend and single again and now. And, um, prior to this relationship though, like you are so much more successful, they're like, I'm never going to date because dating just ruins you. And I'm like, that's not the example I wanted to set. That's not what I wanted to happen. And um, and I was like, what do you mean? You know, trying to be real calm, but freaking it out. And um, they're like, well, you know, when you were single, you were CEO, you were doing this, you were doing this, you won these awards. Oh wow. It's such a young age. You have observed that. And it's interesting cause my, my partner and I, um, live together now and they've both commented on how grateful they are for the life that they have and the lessons that they've learned and how different it is, the relationship that we have because I do earn more than more than him and he's not threatened by it at all. And he's so supportive and just, what can I do to help you? Like what extra things you want to do? I'll cook dinner tonight. I'm like, my mom was shocked by that. She's like, Hey, cooks. Like he's, he's fantastic cook. Like I'm terrible. He's fantastic. And you know, how's like, um, it's a very equal partnership instead of everything I've seen before. And it's incredible the difference. Um, I mean obviously single, I was quite successful and very, very happy bit. There is a huge difference when you have a supportive partner with you, um, it's phenomenal. The difference it makes and how quickly things move ahead and how the life that we have is just beyond anything I imagined he feels the same. It's just, yeah. So much better than either of us ever could have imagined that a big part of that is because we're, um, you know, both committed to those sorts of things and I'm very open to, to learning and, um, self-improvement and, um, you know, doing those things together, like money mantras in the morning and, um, you know, focusing on like the law of attraction and what can we do today to, um, improve our lives. And every night at dinner, as a family, you know, we list three things that we're grateful for. And we also give each other a compliment for something that we've noticed that day. Um, and you cannot say the same thing every night. Well, growing up, my parents made us do this well, exactly. Like growing up, my parents had to say something, say something that we were grateful for every night at the dinner table. And we should like remember to go for dinner. And my parents were like, no, you have to be genuine. And I was like, and so when we started doing it as a family, I was like, all right, these are the rules they're repeating and you have to be genuine. And they think, right, they think about it all day, what they can say, you know, what they're grateful for and what they can compliment each other for it and that sort of thing. And I think all those sorts of things in that stronger family unit definitely make a difference to everything. Like our financial situation is much, much better than either of us ever thought. And, um, he actually comes from, um, quite a different background to me, um, from Vanuatu and, um, the country where their incomes were much, much, much lower than, than ours and that sort of thing. And so it's been a massive curve, I think for, for, um, him and the time we sort of being together and learning together and that sort of thing. But, um, you can sort of really see how mindset makes a big difference to everything and having those goals and working on them. And, um, and he associated with me that, um, he had heaps of golf before you met, but never thought that he could, um, achieve them. And then when we were discussing a few things, it turned out that we had basically the same life goals, um, that we both brought out like pieces of paper at time that we had written well before we met each other that were like almost identical down to the sort of businesses that we wanted to own matched up. Like everything just matched up. And so being together, we've been able to like steam ahead towards these goals that we want, that we couldn't have alone.

Felipe Arevalo: 35:07

That's great. As two things you mentioned that we're really big on, you mentioned, you know, your daughter's learning from you and kids are something we tell parents all the time, kids are always learning, whether you're teaching or not, they're learning. And you may not realize that that they're back there in the corner, supposedly on their iPad, but they're really just paying attention to see how you're going to handle any situation that comes up.

Kylie Travers: 35:33

Oh, absolutely. And they pay much more attention to what you do and how you to things than what you say. Like so much more, even, even last night, for example, this is a small example, but my daughter was telling me that she was FaceTiming. One of her friends and her friend, um, dropped a dish and she heard the mom yell at her friend in the background, like, what are you doing, you know, you smashed the dish and like really, really angry. And then her friend was like, I have to go. And she got, when she was like, mom, your first question would be, are you okay? She said like, you would never yell at me for breaking a dish. And I'm like, well, because dishes are replaceable, but you're not, if you've cut your leg, I need to, you know, see today you might need stitches. Or like I said, if I'm in the other room and I can't hear it, like, I don't know what's happened or if you're injured or whatever. And she's like, yeah, she goes, but my, um, my kids compared a lot of things between how we act in our family and how like their friends, parents are. And it's little things like that that you don't realize your kids are picking up on these kids. Aren't scared of breaking anything. They also don't typically break stuff. And she even said, she goes, you know, if you get yelled at all the time like that, then you're nervous and you're more likely to break it. I'm just like various these lessons, all this I switched on.

Felipe Arevalo: 36:42

I mentioned the, are you okay? Cause when my oldest, when he makes drop something and there's a loud bang, he knows ahead of time. I hear him yell. I'm okay.

Kylie Travers: 36:52

My oldest does that. I'm like, she walked into something last night and we heard it sort of like bang and she's like, Oh, okay. But it's like, that's what you want your kids to know that they're loved. And that your first concern is them. Not that something's been broken, but that then like a day I kept. Yeah.

Chase Peckham: 37:11

It's funny. Everything about you is just, I see you, you and my wife, um, just the mentioning that you don't cook and my wife would laugh at all of that. Um, my wife makes more money than I do as well. If she's more successful, I don't care as long as we, as a unit are successful. Um, and we keep constantly trying to better each other and how we can help each others in our careers and personally and everything else. I, and just to hear that you're in a place like that now, after what you've been through, just goes to show that by the way you keep learning. So even though there's Hills and valleys, as what fill we say this all the time, right? You're going to run into detours, you're going to run into roadblocks. And that's why this, you know, the roadmap is a metaphor for life and your budget and everything else is, life is one big road trip, and you're going to have, you know, you're going to have your times when you have to replace the tires. Um, but if you learn from that experience, then you're not going to have to replace the tires quite as often. So that's

Kylie Travers: 38:11

it definitely. And it does make a difference, like knowing, knowing that I'm planning ahead for that, and also having, you know, like a supportive partner or like support around you to handle it with that makes such a difference. Like I know for us, just in the last six months we evacuated from the Australian Bush fires. We were right in the middle of all of that. We, yeah, that was Christmas and new year. So we spent the new year evacuated. That was super fun. And then, um, like two weeks after that we had, um, two of our family members passed away within 24 hours back in Vanuatu. So we had to quickly go back there and then whilst we're trying to leave, Sydney was flooding. So that was all in chaos. And we got caught up in that. And then we got there and of course the pandemic breaks out. And then we had to go to the Solomon Islands for another family thing, and then the borders closed and then we got locked there. Then we got hit by Cyclone Harold. Um, that started in Honiara whilst we were there. Um, so we got to experience all these major events quite quickly, um, together and really see how each other handles emergencies.

Chase Peckham: 39:08

You're a history in a very short period of time.

Kylie Travers: 39:12

It was full on like how we manage to be in each one of those places at the time when disaster was happening. I just, I don't know. Um, we're very skilled because, because we'd been on that same page together and working towards things together, when each thing happened, we just totally went, sat down and went, okay, these are our finances. This is what we're in. What do we want to do to get to where we want to be and just worked it out together. And it makes such a difference to be very clear on your end goal and to be working to that together, it just makes everything like, it doesn't matter what disaster you hit. You'll be fine. You'll get through it.

Katie Utterback: 39:48

Kylie. Where can people connect with you if they want to learn more about you or just kind of follow your work?

Kylie Travers: 39:53

Yeah. The best place to connect with me is through the thrifty issue. So it's the thrifty issue.com.au. But also he put the thrifty issue in on, um, like Facebook and Instagram and all the social media. Um, that's where they all are. I do have an assistant who manages some of it, but, um, the responses it's like messages, not me. I'll be responding for something. So yeah, there's an investigation. Yeah.

Katie Utterback: 40:17

Thank you so much. This was so helpful. It was me personally.

Kylie Travers: 40:22

Thank you.

Chase Peckham: 40:24

And please keep doing what you do. Thank you. I will definitely thank you. Alright. Take care of yourself and have a great, a wonderful day, which still awaits you. Yes. Thank you guys. Enjoy the rest of yours. Fair.[inaudible].