[inaudible] welcome to Talk Wealth, to me, a safe space podcast, where we chat about anything and everything related to personal finance. The information contained in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only. It does not constitute as accounting, legal tax or other professional advice.
Chase Peckham:Hello, and welcome to another edition of Talk Wealth to Me. You put yourself through college and you're a professional. Now you understand how expensive college can be. You might be still paying for those college loans. If you're a parent who has kids that are growing up and you're expecting to put them through college, you could be frightened to death on how expensive it's going to be. Well, that was Bonnie Burkett and she put her daughter through schools, but yet she had had enough. And that's why she wrote the book"Enough, the College Cost Crisis," where she explains all the different ways that you can make college a little bit more Affordable. To meet you. And we talk about College loans and we talk about the cost of college. I mean, more times than we'd love, like to honestly, uh, but it's a big subject and it's a subject that is affecting honestly, students more in the last two decades than it even. And it was expensive when I went, I thought, um, and I was lucky enough that I didn't have to pay for my college, um, through because of a few different reasons, but that is not the reality for most families these days and not
Bonnie Burkett:Well to do. I don't want to say wealthy, but that level two notches below there, they can't put even one kid through full ride. In other words, unless their kid gets some significant numbers. They can't afford one much less. If they have two or three,
Chase Peckham:There's no doubt. I was going to say, not only is the level of competition just to get into these institutions these days off the charts, but then you add in the equation of the cost and then the, the amount of in loans that they're taking out and then are not even going to make a fraction of that. When they go into the actual workforce to begin with, It's a real issue.
Bonnie Burkett:I write that we put, we're putting in a financial millstone around our children's necks. There are children who are children. If they take out full loans, will be paying for their loans on the 25 year plan. When their children go to college, something is very wrong about all of that. And there are some ways around it. I know, you know, plenty cause you're in the business and I'm really delighted, but there's some secret I've I worked on some stuff.
Chase Peckham:That's exactly why we love to have you. And I, and I know Felipe is an expert in, in the different types of loans that students can take out and all the different repayment methods that there are, and he can speak to that at length. And we do, we touch on it quite a bit, but we touch on a very broad scope when it comes to personal finances. So we don't get to talk about it and research it as much as you do. And that's obviously why we have you here today is we'd love to have somebody who
Bonnie Burkett:Hope I can live up to your expectations.
Chase Peckham:It's not, it's not even just that you, you, you Walk the walk, you did it, you had to live it. And so take us back. What made you finally say, as your book says enough?
Bonnie Burkett:Well, that's a, that's a great question. And it was a long one. I mean, I think sometimes people think, Oh, you just get this idea and write a book. And it really wasn't that, but the opening chapter was, I was blessed with a daughter who is good academically in school. So that was not the issue. That's a different ball game for some families. What the issue was is that she wanted to work in commercial art to be an illustrator, a graphic designer. Let's not have a normal major, you know? So we traipsed up and down the coast trying to find the right schools for her hit. Did it twice. No hit. Finally she found one, didn't like the one location with the flagship in November of her senior year. And finally we were peeling her fingertips off the lamppost. She liked it so much, but it was such a difficult process. And I had it quote easy compared to some, there was the FASFA, the mystery FASFA. That was not in existence. When I went to college, that's how old I am. And the giveaway FASFA, as I like to say here, look at my tax return. And then you, you now know everything about my finances so that they can figure out how much they think you can pay. You have no vote in it. So all of this kind of, you don't believe it.
Felipe Arevalo:I love the fact that you said they think because that, you know, that expected family contribution is so unrealistic for most people.
Bonnie Burkett:I remember the day it's one of those burned in the brain days I had finished it. I had taken the daughter to the office. We were doing the whole thing two and a half hours into it. I hit the magic button. It comes back. I really don't like to cuss. I missed my Mark that day.
Chase Peckham:I can only imagine.
Bonnie Burkett:All I can tell you. So with all of this together, we were blessed to be able and the daughter did get some scholarship money. So it brought the cost back down to normal regional university level, which I had planned on and grateful that I had been able to set aside some money and have the money for her. So I got lucky. I'm the first to say that, but in my work, I work with people in insurance, and financial issues. Every day, they come in my office and tell me their stories. And the stories kept coming. There were borrowing$20,000 their borrowing 10, they're adding 15. Their kids come out to a, in my neck of the woods,$40,000 a year, starting salary is not bad. And they're sitting on$80,000 of debt with a$900, some dollars payment a month for, you can probably calculate that faster than I can, but how wrong is that? How can you ever get out from underneath that 10 years is the minimum 25 as the stretch. That's just insane. So I I said, there's gotta be another way. And so I kind of fell into the"secret sauce." It was, it's a part of the book, it's the purpose of the book, but I also fell into something else that kept coming to me. And that is, I think we need to have a new reset about whether our students are ready to go to college. Now, I believe a lot of people can do college, please. Don't misunderstand that being ready and primed and capable and disciplined and focused is a different animal entirely, just because you can do it doesn't mean you will do. So. I spend a third of the book asking parents to get into relationship with their kids and ask things like, tell me a little bit about what you love to do, what they're gifted in, what they're skilled in, what they keep going back towards. What are the kinds of things that your student keeps being drawn to? Uh, I have a educators streak. I think you can tell that that's been on my whole life and I've known that I, that doesn't mean I did that. It just means I've always aimed in that direction. So I get to use it in other ways. Well, your, your student has gifts and talents and you need to start seeing what does that look like from a job point of view? And so I spend a middle third of the book asking you to take career tests, personality tests, to get a handle on what should they be working towards? What, what kinds of things are out there? They should shadow and do some of the things don't spend a lot of time on that. Uh, and then the first third of the book is all that's wrong with college about putting you into debt and happy to lend you the money. And, um, I've even said this to people, you know that in order to get a reverse mortgage on your home, which is where you take the equity of your home and get the money paid to you in a monthly stipend, the federal government requires an independent party to come out and explain it to you. Just so you won't feel like you were railroaded. Is that still correct?
Chase Peckham:It's still correct.
Bonnie Burkett:Good. Why aren't we doing that with college? Why aren't we requiring that an independent unaffiliated party explain to a student what,$80,000 of borrowed money it's going to look like?
Felipe Arevalo:It's funny. Cause like you mean the little video they make you watch a isn't enough and it's not, you know, cause I remember hitting the button, play on the video of going and grabbing a sandwich, coming back, realizing it's half over and then hitting the little done button. And that was what was required at the time. And I'm sure I wasn't the only one who did it that way.
Bonnie Burkett:Well, you're human, right?
Felipe Arevalo:I was 18.
Bonnie Burkett:you were 18 and I mean this in a bad way, but none of our brains were formed well at 18. And why do you think an 18 year old should be able to process what that that's going to look like at 24, 27, 38, et cetera,
Chase Peckham:Especially because most of them don't even know what debt is. They don't know what an interest rate is. They don't know what an APR is. They let alone, they just know that that little plastic thing that mom and dad used bought them goods and services. And the fact that they're going to have to pay that back, let alone something that is so far in the distant future, yet their college careers right in front of them. And the pressure also of today's world that says you've got to go to college or you're not going to be successful, or you're not going to stand up with your peers. I think that that's kind of a bad message too, but that's a whole other podcast.
Bonnie Burkett:We can do that one too. I do mention that in my book a little bit, because I talk about I'm a, I'm a huge advocate of higher education. I do not believe a high school diploma today will get you, uh, the kind of future that you need.
Chase Peckham:Correct.
Bonnie Burkett:But I'm a huge enemy of the cost. And so, you know, come tell me again, why this is the way it is right now, where 945% increase since 1975 and the cost of college, a 300% costs and the consumer price index. That number comparison should tell you everything. We've got to look at college differently from an economic point of view, which is the purpose of my book.
Chase Peckham:So take us through that a little bit. Kind of give us the, give us the down and dirty on what you found. What were the things that you found that you did that help, that people can do to help circumvent those costs a bit?
Bonnie Burkett:Well, I'm going to start with the people side and then I'm going to start with the, um, what I call reverse engineering profile. Let me start with the student and the people side. Cause I think this is essential. Um, back to that statement can do college and will do college. I, I don't mean to be tacky, but they will let in a lot of students who are not particularly highly motivated. They're motivated, but they're not heavily motivated because they need to fill their seats. It's called BICS bottoms in chairs. And we are, if you're borrowing money for your student or they're borrowing money for themselves, however, the money is being borrowed. That's an investment. And if you're not sure that your student will keep up, then first of all, why are you doing that? And then second of all, why there not some boundaries. Even my daughter who did very well in high school, highly disciplined. I said, listen, if this turns out not to be your path, that's fine. Let me know. We'll get you out at the end of the semester. We'll figure it out. And we'll go to plan B. And she said, well, what's plan B. I said, I don't know. We'll figure it out. But I let her know there was an escape hatch because again, not only do we feel the pressure as parents make sure our students go to college, have some reputation. Uh, but the kids feel it too. They're comparing all of time and that's wrong. We've got to let our kids have that, have that option out. And we've got to hold them to performance. Also, in other words, you got to keep, if your kid gets a scholarship, they have to maintain a specified grade point average. They don't maintain the grade point average. They don't get the money. Well, why are we not doing the same thing? I told her, you've got four years to get out of school. The bank of mom is closing its doors at the end of the fourth year. It'll just be you. And FinAid as I like to call them, FinAid like a shark fin, you know, Fin Aid. Uh, and she just looked horrified. And guess what? She was one of only 41% nationally who graduate in four years, the students that enter. Yeah. I don't know about your grading scale, but that's an F for me,
Chase Peckham:that's hard. Well, I'm in there, it's packed and there's probably many reasons for it. And I would imagine just not being able to get your classes all the time, when you need to, um, the overcrowding in your major at that point, and actually get in the general ed classes is almost as hard as getting what's ever in your major. Um,
Bonnie Burkett:So let's solve that problem.
Chase Peckham:Yeah. Let's how do we do that?
Bonnie Burkett:Well, that's the secret sauce. The secret sauce is looking at at college completely differently. When I went to school, they were just glad I was in college and they were glad I had chosen a major. And they were glad that I thought I had a direction and I did. And all that. That was all, you just needed a degree. Well, you don't need a degree. I ended up with today. Okay. I'm just saying, I love what I did, but it's not valid anymore. So today you have to reverse engineer college. You have to maybe take a career test and maybe take a personality test and maybe do some back work in high school. So you have some direction that you think you might want to be in. Then you need to pick two or three schools. And 80% of all students go to college within 75 miles of their home and 80% go to the public schools, the public universities in some States, they call them colleges. I know California. Some of your two years called colleges. It's interesting, whatever they go within that, with that range. So you pick two or three schools, chances are, you're going to go to a public school that you like, you visit ya virtually these days. And now you got to reverse engineered. If you want to save the money you do, you decide, you think you have a major and now you find out what the general ed courses are towards that major. Alright, pretty much. Let's, let's pick it apart. It's going to be a language. It's going to be a science. It's going to be a sociology. It's going to be some Western civic equivalent, um, going on English, et cetera. Everybody has to have the buffet in the first two years. Here's the secret sauce. Nobody realizes this, but most public universities will accept something called CLEP is College Level Exam Placement courses. These were developed by the College Board, the lovely people who gave us the SAT and the ACT. And there are 33 Core courses. You can sign up for them, uh, pay them a little fee. Believe it's around 60 bucks for a training manual on it. You can study at home. Oh, guess what? We've learned? We can do this in a pandemic. Can't we, then you go to a testing center, they're back open to my state. Hope they are soon for you in California for$125. You can take a CLEP exam in English, literature or American lit or Western Civ. The scale is weird. It's an 80 point scale. And around my neck of the woods, the universe is we have seven colleges and universities in our town. So they've been a real Petri dish for me to practice with all around here. They all want 55 to 57 scoring on an 80 point scale. That's about a 70. So if you make that test, you have just gotten three to four college credits on a pass, fail towards your general studies. You can do this every six weeks. You can do eight courses in one year and have four weeks vacation all for around. Oh, let me see a maximum cost of$1,600 for those eight.
Chase Peckham:Wow.
Felipe Arevalo:Would this be like the, uh, like the AP He courses?
Bonnie Burkett:No it's different. AP is a problem. My daughter.
Chase Peckham:That's why a lot of schools are getting rid of them.
Bonnie Burkett:They are because here's what happened to my daughter. Seriously. She took seven AP courses. I mean, she just was a, she's a little piranha of information. She tested in five. She, I, it was up to her. I didn't force that. And she made threes, fours and fives on five of those. And one school only accepted three of the courses. Thank goodness. The art school was generous and gave her five course credits towards her general studies, which allowed her a minor. But the regular universities were very picky. And the higher up the food chain, more flagship universities, the more picky they are about AP classes. Does anyone a parent about that in high school? No they just tell all the parents, get your kid in AP. They're going to be able to get credit. They're going to be able to, well, maybe, maybe not. Yes. So let's get back to the secret sauce. So the secret sauce is if you will reverse engineer your degree, if you want, you can be at home zooming your, your training or online in your training. Get the basic courses in the major at the school you want. You've talked to the academic counselor, you got a list of what they want you to have. You don't just pretend, you know, this has to, you have to, you have to take the car apart and rebuild it here. And you do that. You have spent less than$4,000. You get almost two years. It's not a perfect two, I haven't found it to be perfect. Strangely enough, private colleges are pretty good with this too. I want to encourage people who have a student who wants to go to private school. It's not just the public. Some of the local private schools are very generous with the courses. They'll accept. So you could be at home. You could be working part time, saving the dinero, the bucks, whatever, get those two you've already been accepted. You do need to know you've been accepted at this school choice. You can defer. I mean, they'll, if they know you're coming, they they'll find your slot these days, especially, and you can show up with all these pass, fail, pass credits. Now, now you're going to college for your major. You're going to college for those advanced courses, a little bit easier to get into. Now you're a late sophomore, early junior. You might have to go two and a half years maybe, but you get into that counselor and say, I took all these, like you told me, and now what else do I have to take? And you get it lined up. And then you're there and you're active and you're going, and you're doing, and you've proved you can do it. If you can do it online, you most assuredly can do it. Whatever this hybrid we're calling today.
Chase Peckham:Yeah, that's absolutely true. Eventually, you know, knock on wood. We're back to normal within, you know, who knows. I'm not even put a timeline on it anymore, but at some point kids will be going back to school full in place. And I think that there is a place for that. I mean, they do grow and they do learn. And they, and I don't mean just scholastically. I mean, just as a, as a human being you, yeah. They kind of spread their wings a little bit. And uh, but are you finding that those days are, are kind of more fleeting than they were even a couple decades ago? That the, the days of like me, I could do my whole general ed and decided I was going to be in a major and then changed my mind halfway through and go, gosh, you know, this, this whole biology. Thing's just not, I'm really not very good at math. And man, I really found my, I love to speak in front of people. So I'm going to become a communications major. Well, that's half the battle, isn't it?
Bonnie Burkett:It is half the battle. I believe you have to treat it a lot more. I even told my daughter, I said, your job is to get your education. And I believe wholeheartedly that you can do your job in 45 hours a week because I studied hard and I did well. And I did it in 45 hours a week. I said, the rest of the time is yours. But your, your job is to be a student and I'm not giving you. You don't have to bless her. She didn't have to work. She got some internships and said some things in art world that you have to do. But, um, you know, I said, your job is to do that. So I think we, I think there's a new attitude about that. She had a good college experience, but I'm not hearing what I remember about college. I can't tell you all the funny, crazy things we all did.
Chase Peckham:That's a different podcast too.
Bonnie Burkett:Different podcast, but I remember adventures and they were mostly clean, uh, for the most part. And I remember those things and she just, she took it. Her generation took it so much more seriously because of the incredible debt. I comes back to that weight of, of debt, or none of the parents are talking to their kids at all and they don't know how much money they're dealing in. And, and it's, you got to talk to your kids about money. There's three things we don't talk about. You know, what the other two are and money is the important one. I started talking to her. You mentioned at the ATM card one day, this is a true story. She was all seven years old. And I said, we couldn't buy something. She says, we can just go to the machine and get the money out. I looked there and I said, mommy has to work to put the money in. And she paused a moment thought and said, have a great day at work. Mommy.
Chase Peckham:Yeah. That's a common, that's common. We hear that quite a bit. As parents, especially Felipe, that's coming for you.
Felipe Arevalo:Well, that's one thing with like working at home where my oldest is like, Oh, so you, you, you work so that it clicked now. Cause he's sitting here watching me work where he doesn't usually get to. I dropped him off at school. I pick them up from school on a normal basis. Um, and I'm like, what do you think I do all day,"Get stuck in traffic?" And right, exactly.
Bonnie Burkett:So you live in traffic and stuff, the capitalist, right?
Felipe Arevalo:So, so he, he gets to see me working and then he, it's kind of like, Oh, well that's work. Oh. And mama sits in that corner and does her work. And I think it's clicking more the money working thing. Cause he actually gets to see it firsthand as opposed to that.
Bonnie Burkett:And I think you need to take every money opportunity all the time. They're growing up, teach them the savings aspect, teaching the, you know, we save for this. Tell them when you go on a special trip, we save for this. I mean, you got to create a pattern that they want to follow. We're off topic, but that's okay.
Chase Peckham:So no, I mean, you know, it's all connected though, right? It is. The kids have to understand that it's not their Rite of passage to go to college. I mean, in my day it was, you needed to get good grades. And if you didn't, you weren't going to go to college nowadays. There's almost no choice. Right? And unless we get back into the trades and I'm a big, I believe wholeheartedly, that's just, some people are better at working in that environment. They were better working with their hands and we need it. So why is there a shameful for people to go practice? Something that they're going to do something good at for the rest of their lives?
Bonnie Burkett:Plumbers in my neck of the woods make$80,000 a year. If they're wanting to work, that, that, that train, our trades are going begging right now. The little community college where I am, they have a welding program. It's two years you apply. Here's what they do for you. They pay you to go to school. They take care of your tuition and books. They put you through the program and 10 companies are upping their offers initially as a journeyman out of school to weld for them. I mean, if they didn't have to work that way, we'd all have terrific mental health. I mean, so what, you know, I am a huge advocate. If your student is a, a diesel whisper, this is a true story, a friend of a friend story. But I believe in, she knows a guy who's a diesel engine, whisper. He will not commit to one company, but he gets called in for all their problems stuff. He's a six figure guy and works hard and then goes and plays, works hard and then goes and plays. We need these folks and the technical jobs are going begging because we have, we have brainwashed people into thinking. They need a piece of paper that doesn't work for them. They're not built for college. The way it's been delivered now for 150 years, they don't want to sit in a classroom. They want to get their hands on something that will only be electronics of these cars. Or as I like to say, Alexa, on wheels these days, you know how seriously.
Chase Peckham:It's true.
Felipe Arevalo:That is true.
Bonnie Burkett:I'm into a big thing about autonomous cars that's coming and just get out of the way it's coming in. It's Alexa on wheels. So we've got to be honest about our students and then support the blue blazes out of them. I, you know, if my daughter has said and was good at anything mechanical, I'd be so proud of her because it's about following your gifts and graces. It's about following what you're good at and let's support them and get behind it and find the place they need to be. So they can be productive members of our of our society and contribute.
Chase Peckham:So have you found through your research that maybe a lot of this issue is also just through the parents, educating themselves and kind of giving off the, the information that we knew as we were growing up and yet it's changed so much?
Bonnie Burkett:I, I think it's a huge combination of a bunch of things. I think parents have so much more on their plate, um, in regards to, uh, well, first of all, I only parents had one child, so I have no idea what the zoo three and four can be. So my husband was part of a zoo. And so I've learned, but we only did one. And so I think the, the stresses of having multiple children, I think they don't know the giveaway information on the FAFSA. I think they don't realize, um, what's going to smack them in the face. And they're your kid is at 18 looking at you with the big Goo goo eyes, but mommy and daddy, I want to go to this beautiful school with the brick and the Ivy and the, you know, you want to give your kids everything you can. And to have to say, no, we will almost turn ourselves inside out not to do that. And that is a problem. And we have got to be able to say, I care so much about you, that I care about your future wellbeing financially. Let's work on this together. But I think if you're talking money all along, if you help people understand that we have to do this together, then they'll make, they can help make some good decisions. You just have to get them in on the money in the family conversation much earlier. For instance, I tell, I get families asking me that. I said, well, don't tell him what you may, but show them the bills. They don't need to know what to make, but they do need to see the bills. I'm writing. So in high school I started showing my daughter, the electric bill. She was horrified. Suddenly the lights started not staying on all day and night in the bedroom. You know, little things like that. But I thought, Oh, I should've done this sooner, but I think you can show them those things. When we went and took a special trip to Disney, you know, the exotic thing that we do as families, I just said, we saved a long time for that. And we did, we had a wonderful time, but I didn't tell her. It was just some magic thing that came on a piece of plastic and said, no, we've been putting that money aside so we can do this. So we've gotta have, we gotta have more realistic, common conversations. It's not a bad thing. You're, you're helping your kid. And you want to, you want to say it in the right way and the right tone for the right age. But you know, you want to let them know, Hey, we, this is how we work. This is how we get to do what we get to do
Chase Peckham:So outside of. There's obviously a lot more to the secret sauce than, than just the classes that you can take online. Have you found in your study, as you mentioned, there's seven schools in your, in your surrounding area, have you found that any of those schools are more economically viable than another and say, you know, a lot of, I guess the common thought is that private institutions are much more expensive and that nobody will ever be able to afford them and that you need to go the state route.
Bonnie Burkett:The answer I would have given you nine months ago is very different than the answer I'm going to give you today. Sadly, we have, um, two large universities in our state system here. Um, one, a historically black college university and another, that has 15,000 students. That's pretty good size university of North Carolina at Greensboro. Um, there are three private schools in the area. Sadly, what I feared would happen and what I actually fear will happen with my little school is they don't have the endowment to ride this through. In other words, they are a cashflow business. Private schools are heavier in cashflow because they can't beg at the legislature level for more money. They're private. Um, the private schools here, sadly, one of them I discovered had an extraordinarily low graduation rate. Well below that 41% as rated in one of the websites that I suggest people check out. I was mortified to see that cause it's a cute little school. Another one just let 37 administrative and faculty positions go because they don't have the enrollment. So nine months later during this pandemic, I perceive a frightening reckoning in the private school situation. Private schools do give a good bit of scholarship money. They actually give them more than the public universities. The public universities are practically a big fat zero. So they give more because they're trying to get the dollar costs down for the desired student, closer to public. They can't ever get right there, but maybe 60% instead of 50, whatever. So, um, I think the big Us are still going to be filled with students, the private schools. Um, my advice to everyone about if you ever get in a private school right now is get them through as quickly as you can get them through as quickly as you can. And that might include summer school, uh, because I just don't know what they're going to do. If any fold, they will. There's a system for that and a process where they would be accepted by another group and they would accept transfer credits. And it's one year process or better, usually better like two, but get your kids through because they're, they're folding, I'm sorry, they're folding. Unless you're Harvard and you have all the money in the world, we need to charge admission for the next 155 years.
Chase Peckham:Yeah, that is very true. I think because so many people don't realize how many private institutions are all over our country and abroad internationally, but we're talking here in the United States and it is going to obviously affect a lot of them because they don't get the, unless they have endowments, they don't get the federal and state help. That.
Bonnie Burkett:That's correct.
Chase Peckham:And I guess maybe it's, it's interesting to find, you know, how, how expensive state universities are these days considering they were supported by the state. So people could go to college within their state.
Bonnie Burkett:Well, if you'll take one more statistic and I do use them to tell stories, I honestly, I'm not a stat queen. I'm just use them to tell the stories in 1975, just under 50% of all high school students went to some form of continuing education. Ie. A community technical or university in 2017, that statistic has risen to 69.6 or some number. We're probably just over 70% right now of all high school diploma graduates are in some form of higher education. That's a 40% increase. And with that 40% increase, we're doing two things that I really have to question on the one hand. I'm delighted because it supports my statement that we all need higher education of some form for our gifts and graces. But on the other hand, it's blowing up scholarships. It's reducing money available, uh, is harder to get a scholarship today than it ever was is all I'm gonna say. And I have a little message, uh, for, for families. Cause I see this there's I talk about scholarships. I'm not very nice about it. One of my chapters and I talked about academic, I talk about arts and I talk about sports. Let's talk arts. There are no scholarships in arts. Next question. Well, they have one. It goes to the most talented one. Everybody else's painful ride. Number two, let's go to academics. Academic scholarships are what they sound like. They expect to have seen performance in an academic level. In high school, you better have a good ACT or an SAT. You better be in the top 25% of your high school classes, right. Yeah, it might be 30 in some schools, but that's a, that's a rough average number. And if your kid isn't in the top 25, please don't be expecting academic scholarships. It's just not going to fly. And I'm saving my eviscerating commentary for the sports scholarships. Let me start by being clear. I played sports in high school. I played it into college. I love sports. I think it's wonderful for your development, but we have a little thing going on right now where if your kid has a smidge of talent and a coach catches that the coach dangles that little phrase, Oh, they might get a college sports scholarship. Here's the reality. Less than 2% of high school athletics, you have to make your high school team will ever get a sports call scholarship to a division one or two school. And the maximum dollars available is just over$11,000, just shy of$12,000 a year. And less than 2% of college athletes will make a professional level. So out of 50 students in a high school who are high school athletes, one's going to get the scholarship. I'm sorry. I'd like to think I'm good. But I just got to know the truth. Chances of me being in the 99th and 98th percentile is about zero. And we've got to get over that. If you're playing pay you, if you're doing pay ball, as I call it, which is pay to play.
Chase Peckham:Clubs sports,
Bonnie Burkett:clubs, sports, that's great. If your kid loves it and you can afford to do that, you have no, you have no problem with me. But if that's the college fund, that's going out the door to eight to$16,000 a year, somebody needs to be talking to you.
Chase Peckham:You are speaking my language because there are so many families that think if they get their kids training, when they're eight and nine and 10 years old, that they are going to evolve into this all super athlete that will be trained and able to go onto college. And by the way, if you met, as you mentioned, football, basketball, and women's basketball are the only ones that get full rides. Everybody else, they have to split all those things up. And I was one of them. I was a baseball player. Baseball only got 11.7 scholarships with 30 guys on the roster. So you do the math, right? And in the world in the landscape has changed a bit since I was around and we didn't have the clubs sports that they do now. So there again, we're feeding more people into the system. Um, but you're right. If people actually put away half of what they put into their, these kids, sports, clubs sports from the time they're six years old, they could have college paid for, or at least a large amount of it.
Bonnie Burkett:Absolutely. I tell folks when, um, right now, if you have a baby right now, Felipe forgive me, but I heard a hint that you might be in that department or something.
Felipe Arevalo:I have a two and a seven year old.
Bonnie Burkett:Oh seven. Okay. All right. Well, all right. So nevermind. I'll raise my number. I've had a baby today. You need over$500 a month to pay for an average university cost 18 years. So now you at two and seven are going to meet to drop in seven 50 a month in my book, particularly where you live and.
Felipe Arevalo:San Diego does tend to be, does tend to be expensive.
Bonnie Burkett:It is beautiful, beautiful, beautiful area. But, um, I'm just saying nobody has that money either. Because as we all know, the minute the kids arrive, it's a quarter of a million dollar investment in their raising them. So, oops, that doesn't include college. So we don't have the money. So what do we need to do? I think we need a real gut and reality check. Um, regardless of our circumstances, if our circumstances are modest, then we need to tackle it sort of what I'm doing. Backdooring it reverse engineering. It look for ways. Do it online. Be proud. We don't even talk about the military wants you and they will pay off your debt. Did you know that two of the branches? I don't think one of them, some new Space Force I'm so disappointed, but two of the branches will pay off your debt up to$65,000. You can join out of college and they'll, they'll work out a deal with you. I don't have the particulars and I don't put anything in my book that way, because as we all know with recruiters, they it's like car sales. There's a special every month. So you kind of know how much they want you type thing and whatever. So, but that's one of the ways you can do that in reverse. So pose, you do take on all the debt and you come out crushed by 65 K there's an out, okay? I mean, assuming you can make, make it in all those things and you qualify, but that's one thing, um,.
Chase Peckham:Again do your research, right,
Felipe Arevalo:right. Cause there's different careers that they different degrees that they're more likely to say, Hey, come on over than others.
Bonnie Burkett:Talk to your recruiter before you go in. If, if, if the idea of serving in the military is a good thing for you and it is not for everybody. Well, full disclosure, I was a military brat first 16 years of my life. So I do know it's not for everybody, including some of the people I I grew up with. But if it is, that might be a great opportunity or do it in reverse join and get your online degree paid for practically completely by uncle Sam. I mean with very little personal thing and you can do it in your spare time. I know a Colonel in the Marine Corps right now who did that and he is a top dog kind of guy. I mean, he's all there. And he did it that he got his degree. That way you think anybody out anywhere will say anything, but yes, sir. That was a good idea. Yeah, no, they did. They've got no problem with that. So lots of options out there and why do we all think we can't? The only thing I would say is putting it off may not be your best decision. Very few of us can organize our lives around kind of coming back to doing college. What happens is we have that crazy habit of falling in love and getting married and having babies. So my argument is if there's a timeframe to do it, I think it is when you are young, uh, in general, there may be exceptions to that, but don't be afraid to look it online. Online university of Florida has had a 20 year online program. My television and my tablet are loaded with SNU advertisements. Southern New Hampshire University thinks that owns the space they don't, but they think they do. But you look at all that, but compare the prices on that too. Uh, there are websites that will compare your online per credit hour costs and pay as you go, but have a plan. I just don't see it. I think we spend more time looking for our first house. Then we spend time helping our kid figure out the cost of college and that's the right word going, that first house and that college cost isn't get well, California's a little different, but my neck of the woods, you can buy a real tiny starter house for what it costs to go to college today.
Felipe Arevalo:Yeah, I think, I don't know if it's nationwide, but I know here in San Diego, uh, high school students can actually take college courses. I believe up to six units, uh, per semester for free as high school students, um, at the community college level. So called.
Bonnie Burkett:That's called dual enrollment back back East. So is that okay?
Felipe Arevalo:Yeah. Something, something similar. Yeah. And it's free for high school kids. Um, so my, my brother did it. I, I joke with him that he's the only person I know who got, uh, rejected from a community because he actually applied when he was still too young. Um, but his, I tell him is like, you know, everyone gets accepted from community college, but you somehow got rejected. Uh, but he, his junior and senior year, he would head he'd do his high school stuff and sports. And then either online or, or once a week at night would pop into the community college, which was down the road. And I drove him, he took a econ with me and my friend. Um, you know, he just tag along with us on a Tuesday and go to econ. And, and it was, he, he was like 16, but he, he got it for free. So with that and, uh, some AP testing that he did, he actually went into college just under junior level.
Bonnie Burkett:Exactly.
Felipe Arevalo:And he hadn't paid, but I mean, he paid the regular books and not going to get a very minuscule.
Bonnie Burkett:Couple thousand dollars maybe this is what we have to do. This is what you have to get real about who you are, whether you should be borrowing this money, whether your students should be borrowing this money. And you've just got to create that path. That makes the most sense. There's a favorite phrase I have that Motley Fool took over and it basically says, there's no scholarships for retirement. When I bring that up in the middle of this conversation, because if you're taking money out of your 401k or your Hawking your house to send your kid to college, you're doing that. You're you're you think somebody is going to give you a magical scholarship for retirement and it's not going to happen. Yeah.
Chase Peckham:We, we talk about that a lot that the pure simple reality is is if you are going to put your retirement in danger to put your kid through college, you're, you're making a, uh, broad mistake.
Bonnie Burkett:At the end of my book, I have chapter 16, 17, and 18 are working chapters. I put zero to 10K,[inaudible] 10 to 20, 20 to 30. And tell in my book what you need to do. If you have that much money saved up with your kid. I think there's a lot of people out there with that. And then I built a mantra and this is what I think everyone should work towards. Get them through the right school at the best possible price in the least amount of time, that results in a degree or certification they can use.
Chase Peckham:Yeah. I think you should have summed it up, right?
Bonnie Burkett:Yeah. That's, that's the way you have to deal with this extremely expensive thing today. I think you can do it. You just have to get so real with who you are and help your student get real. And then they can do anything with you as a partner. I mean, if you're helping them figure this out, if you go looking online at night at possibilities, you call it the admission counselors for their CLEP credit requirements. You can build this. And the book is to help you understand all of this.
Chase Peckham:So where can people find your book?
Bonnie Burkett:I am so glad you asked. My book is on amazon.com. Want to again, let you know it is ENOUGH! The College Cost Crisis: How to protect your wallet and your student's financial future U m, it is a under$20 intentionally. I don't want to break anybody's bank. I recommend the print b ook. So you can write notes in it. There's lots of pages where you can make some notes. If you buy the print, you get access to a free one page per chapter. I r ealize people's time is so truncated these days. We don't have time. So you just one page that works you through. Now do this. Now do that. Now do this. T hen build the book that way I b uild the book as information, but then there's a workbook that you can get with that Kindel of c ourse i s available. And then of course my website, I'm doing a blog. I'll give you the website address. I do a weekly blog. Um, last week was all about the graduation rates. Um, this week is about community colleges. Uh, next week is going to be, Oh, who knows? I'm staying in touch with what I've seen through the lens of local, but I know it's national. I check on that and make sure trying to help you see why you need to do what I'm suggesting, which is to get a handle on this. This is the single largest expense besides buying your home that you will have in your family.
Chase Peckham:College debt is surpassed credit card debt, if you can believe
Bonnie Burkett:And auto loans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. who'd of thunk.
Chase Peckham:That's insane.
Bonnie Burkett:Yeah. So my website is www.lightwayenterprises.com/blog One word, but two sounds light way, L I G H T W A Y enterprises, uh, dot com forward slash blog. If you sign up, uh, your email will be secure, protected, and never shared, never sold. I, I get it. I don't want that for me either. So promise, promise for me to do that. I'm also available to talk to people and, uh, if they're interested and they need some guidance, we can work that out too. They can reach out that way too.
Chase Peckham:Well, Bonnie, thank you very, very much for being with us today. It was a true pleasure and I'm so happy to know. I could have just run down the street and said hell.
Bonnie Burkett:We could have done this in my, in my spare office here. We have the space. So yeah, that was great. Good to see you.[inaudible].