Renting vs buying a house debate is one we hear all the time in the financial industry. There’s no one, easy answer because buying isn’t always better than renting. It’s not really throwing money away to rent. We dive deep into this very topic with Eric Roberge, a Certified Financial Planner (CFP) and founder of Beyond Your Hammock where he helps his clients make the best financial decisions for them and their future including whether it’s time to rent or buy a home.
#rentorbuy
Renting vs buying a house debate is one we hear all the time in the financial industry. There’s no one, easy answer because buying isn’t always better than renting. It’s not really throwing money away to rent. We dive deep into this very topic with Eric Roberge, a Certified Financial Planner (CFP) and founder of Beyond Your Hammock where he helps his clients make the best financial decisions for them and their future including whether it’s time to rent or buy a home.
#rentorbuy
[inaudible] Welcome to Talk Wealth To Me, a safe space podcast, where we chat about anything and everything related to personal finance, the information contained in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It does not constitute as accounting, legal, tax or other professional advice.
Chase Peckham:Hello And welcome to Talk Wealth To Me. There's a saying that owning a home is the American dream. Yet there is an argument that you don't necessarily have to own a home. And today we're going to talk to Eric Roberge. She has a CFP. He is founder of beyond your hammock is also the host of beyond finances podcast. And today he's going to give the argument that owning a home isn't necessarily a must. Eric, let's just step right into it. I know that you're, you're a CFP and you help people with their finances. And I'm sure that you work with people all the time on whether it's right to buy a home or rent a home. And you actually make a very, very good argument, um, for both. So let's talk about why is renting. Okay.
Eric Roberge:I think the, the, the one thing about this conversation about financial planning about buying a house above saving for retirement, all of these things, there's never one right answer. A lot of times, people like to put things into a cookie cutter situation where everybody has to do X, Y, and Z. And that's just not the case. And when it, when it comes to home ownership, that's, it's very loud and clear in that case where people feel that if they own a home, they are doing better financially. Like that's what society says you should be doing to be successful financially. Um, I think they also feel that owning the home that they live in the roof over their head is going to provide longterm security, which in most cases can be correct. However, if you're purchasing a house and it's more expensive than you can afford things start to fall apart very quickly. So it's really, really important to understand not only the affordability of buying a house, but also what your lifestyle really looks like and what you want to be enjoying from that perspective before jumping into a house that might change the direction that you're headed.
Chase Peckham:Well, I know that in my own experience at so many people that we work with, the anxiety that people feel, in fact, our cohost, Katie, who's not here. She talks about it all the time that she has this anxiety, because she feels like she's not where she should be in her life because she hasn't bought that home yet. And I know that there are so many people that feel that way. So what should people look at When they're trying to make that decision and should they feel that way?
Eric Roberge:Well, let me first start out by saying that I bought my first home when I was 40 years old. Last year, I am a certified financial planner, went to school for finance, worked at state street. JP Morgan was a financial planner for 10 plus years now. And I only bought my first home at age 40. I just want to make sure that it's very clear here, which is the point being there is no timeline that you have to follow. What you have to do is understand what your finances look like, and whether you own a home or not. You can have a very strong financial picture. If you are saving money, if you're spending less than you earn and saving money, and you're building up your asset base through bank accounts and investment accounts, you can have a very strong financial foundation. Then you have to look at what does my next five years look like? Will I be in the same place that I am today, physically? I mean, if you're living in Boston now and you feel like you're going to be in California in two years, well then buying a house is absolutely not the thing to do because the very short time period, and it's not going to be enough for you to benefit from owning a house. Um, if you look at your income and you try to understand what that looks like in two years, might you be shifting from a full time job to starting your own business? Well, if that's the case, you might need every last penny putting into savings to provide you with some sort of cashflow while you're building up this new business. So you have to look at the different metrics. It's going to be different for everybody just to understand what your near term future looks like before. Even thinking about buying a house,
Chase Peckham:The pressure that people feel. I know it comes from society and it really depends. I think you hit on it, that it's going to be individualized. But when you talk about, let's say living on the coasts, like we live here in San Diego, you find yourself in New York city right now. And, and you have an office in Boston. Those are three places that are really on the high end of ownership. And so really would you say that the cost of living should really dictate? You know, that there's always an I'm going to interrupt myself, but they say that there's like a certain portion, a percentage of your income that you should be paying out for a home. Do you live by that?
Eric Roberge:I do live by that. And it's not the same percentage that a mortgage broker would tell you. So there's a difference between what a bank might say. You can afford on a mortgage from a mortgage perspective. And what I would say that is an ideal place to be from a mortgage perspective. When I say that, I think of the principal, the interest, the taxes, and the insurance, right? So that makes up generally speaking, the comparable from rent to buying right on a monthly basis. I think your principal interest taxes and insurance should be a 15 to 20% of your gross income.
Chase Peckham:Say that again,
Eric Roberge:The principal interest taxes and insurance combined, I think it should fall into 15 to 20% of your gross income on an annual basis.
Chase Peckham:And that's, that's amazing. Cause that's not even lower than what most people would say.
Eric Roberge:Well, yeah. Well, when you talk to a mortgage person, they're probably gonna say after tax income, right, I'm saying gross income. And they're going to say it's about 28%. So it's a, it's a different comparison, but it's not that you're wrong or you can't afford something above the 20% Mark. It's just that people want to do things in their life. They want to save for a short term travel. They want to save for long term college expenses for their kids or retirement. And the more you creep into that 20 plus percent range, the less free cash flow you have to be able to save and spend now. So it's really about understanding where you, where you want to have flexibility and choice in your life and then spending based on those specific priorities that you have versus the next person.
Chase Peckham:I think that is such sound advice. And we try to talk to people about that all the time that, you know, I guess, experiences over things comes up quite a bit. So what would you say to someone who feels like well with renting I'm I don't know if I'm going to have that same payment all the time. I feel like the landlord is going to up my rent every year, or, um, I need that security and having that 30 year fixed payment.
Eric Roberge:Well, I think that's, that's something to look out over the long term because I will say if, if you look at a long term financial projection and you are saying, well, my expenses could be X and in X, there is a rent and the rent is going to increase by 3% per year for life, right? So this is the person that's going to rent forever. And then you look at the other side of the coin and say, well, in the Y scenario, I'm going to buy a house. And in 30 years I will have paid off the mortgage on that house. So therefore my principle and interest payment is gone and I'm only paying taxes and insurance and upkeep on the home. Well, at that 30 plus year, Mark, you're going to see a drastically different cashflow situation for person who owns home versus person who rents the homeowner is going to be in a much better situation at that point than the other. However, that's 30 years down the road, and that's assuming you pay off the mortgage in 30 years. A lot of times people will buy a house and they'll leave three to five years. That totally changes the dynamic. And it may or may not make sense for you to buy a home. If you're gonna leave in three to five years, you're relying on the market to increase over that time to make up for the cost of buying and selling the home. Otherwise it's going to be a better shot for you just to be a renter.
Chase Peckham:So.
Eric Roberge:I know I didn't answer your question, but.
Chase Peckham:You did. Now what it was, You did actually answer the question, uh, and actually very, very well, uh, take us through when you're working with a client and they're going through this scenario, take us through how you work with them and how, how the advice goes. Let's just say a typical, uh, person that you're working with that lives in the Boston area. They're looking at their they're 30 years old. Cause you work with corporate America, right? You work with professionals 30 to 40 that's around the time that most of us are looking for homes. I know that I had this extraordinarily, a lot of anxiety. I didn't buy you say 40. I didn't buy my first home until I was 36. And I had fit thought that I was going to buy my home. You know, I had it all planned out and I was going to own a home. By the time I was 25 30 or whatever it might be and nothing went the way I thought it was going to. So when you sit down and work with these individuals, take us through how you help them create that game plan.
Eric Roberge:Sure. Um, and you're in you're right. I work with people in their thirties and forties. Uh, typically these people are working around the major Metro areas. So they're making great money. They're making into the six figures and even so living in New York or San Diego or Boston six figures, isn't gonna guarantee you that you can afford a house, which is nuts, but it's the case. So what we want to do is just look at a longer term timeline first. And I say, what do you want to do in your life? You know, what do you want to do longterm? Do you have any specific expectations for when you might want to retire or shift careers or, or do other things in your life when you might want to pay or be able to afford to pay for college for your kids when you might want to travel? Um, and whatever else comes up for the individuals and we'll back into the longer term view and then eventually get back down to, alright, now we're zero to five years out. What are we looking to do? When might you want to buy this house? If you say you want to buy a house, okay. Three years. Alright, well, what do we need to do to save up for the amount of money we need in three years to buy a house? So we don't look at the necessarily the, we don't need to save up the entire value of the home. We just need to save the amount we want to put down as a down payment. We want to save up the amount we need to cover for closing costs. And then we want to make sure our cashflow is able to afford the ongoing payment. So if you're looking at a$500, 000 house and you say, well, I want to put down 20%, which is just the general guideline to eliminate private mortgage insurance, which is a whole other topic, but it's a general guideline that I want people to have available to put down. So you're talking about a hundred thousand dollars at that point. Well, if you're in three, in three years, you need a hundred thousand dollars. Well, you need to save about$33,000 per year to get to that hundred thousand dollar Mark. Right? And then you need to also afford the, what I usually say is 2% of the value of the home for closing costs. So you want to tack that on as well. So now you're talking about, um, what does that 120
Chase Peckham:That was close to that? I'm not a math whiz though.
Eric Roberge:I'm the CFP. I should know this stuff. Um, but let's, let's just say it's$120,000 that you need. So you just have to figure out how quickly you can save up that money and still be able to live your life along the way. Um, and if the three year Mark is too short, if you can't get there by then you either have to reduce the price of the home. You're willing to pay your buy, or you extend out the years before you buy the house. And there's no other way around that. Um, I guess you could argue that you could put less down, but then you're talking about a few different things there and you want to make sure that you're staying on track and being prepared, planning, conservatively, and shoring up things in a way that you feel confident going into this purchase, that you're going to be able to afford the life that exists beyond that point.
Chase Peckham:So let's go to that cost of living again, you're on the coasts, we're on the coasts here. And, and we find that that there's housing shortages, it's, it's tough, um, to find new homes. So that boosts the price of homes. Um, probably the areas that we didn't think were possible. And most people look at that as daunting, uh, when they look at a 2000 square foot home for$1.3 million, uh, in, in certain areas that people look at that number and go, Oh my gosh. But that when you look at that same area, talk about the costs of rents, right? Just from the pure like supply and demand rents are gonna go higher. So at what point do you look at that and go, okay, man, which way should I go?
Eric Roberge:Yeah. Well I think that the bottom line, this is one of the things I was going to say earlier when I kind of lost my track.
Chase Peckham:We do that a lot here. That's okay.
Felipe Arevalo:Yeah. That's what we specialize in.
Eric Roberge:Ah, me too. Um, so if you, if you're looking at someone's balance sheet and you see that someone has a million dollars in the bank, and then you see that the next person has a million dollar house, is the guy with a or a girl with a million dollars in the bank, any less off than any less well off than the guy with, or girl with the million dollar house. I would argue that actually the, the, the bank account is more liquid and able to be utilized better than the houses. So there's really no difference. So as long as you're saving the right amount to be able to afford your life now, and in the future, down the road, you can argue that you could choose to rent or buy, and it won't matter at all. However, if you're not saving enough money and you're renting well, now you're not even building up any equity in the home. So you're not saving a dime. That's not a good place to be so renting without saving versus owning, without saving is a lot different. So for the person who is looking to understand rent or buy, you know, what can I afford? The first thing is, can you, are you saving money right now? Are you saving into your retirement account? Are you getting the contribution, the match from your employer? If you're doing that and you might be saving elsewhere and then you want to rent your place, we'll go for it. Because that rent might allow you a couple of things. It might allow you to be in a city that you couldn't otherwise afford to buy in. It might allow you to cut down on your commute and save time every day to be more productive at work, to make more money. It might allow you to get a nicer place even then you would be able to afford to buy, because there's a big difference between renting. Let's say a, you know, a a thousand square foot place just outside the city versus having to buy a, an apartment that is, you know, 500 square feet that is in the same place. Are you going to be happy living in the place? Just because you own it, you might feel good that you own it, but you're going to feel comfortable. Are you going to be able to enjoy yourself? Are you gonna be able to have friends over? If you own this place, you just have to really understand the lifestyle impact along with the financial impact of making this decision versus buy, buy versus Rent.
Chase Peckham:I love that you said that we find so much, so many times that beyond the idea of when they're looking to buy a home, they have this fascination of what they want, and then the reality of what it is they can afford. And so when you mentioned living in the city, if you have the opportunity for a year, even to live in a place that you want, overlooking the Harbor in Boston, let's say, and you get that freedom to walk downtown and go to the office very easily. Versus if you were to buy that same place, you might find that you're living in the suburbs somewhere, and then their commute is much longer. So there are so many variables to it.
Eric Roberge:Yes, absolutely. And you might find if you rent for a year, maybe you get it out of your system. Maybe you say, you know what? I loved living in the city. I love looking at the Harbor. I hated the noise because I couldn't sleep at night and now I'm ready to go to the suburbs and afford more of a, you know, a single family home. And I'm okay making that commute. At least you've tried the different types of things and understood what you actually enjoy and then make the longer term commitment. After that.
Felipe Arevalo:It's funny that you mentioned, uh, you know, the fact that if you do go ahead and make the purchase, you could find yourself having to downgrade your living situation just to, um, you know, be a owner as opposed to a renter. Uh, so I think sometimes that gets a little lost in the shuffle where people don't realize that owning may not allow them the same freedom to live in the same area, or, uh, you know, continue the lifestyle that they have just because they make their purchase. Now, they can't do the things that we're going to do without, you know, stretching themselves out too far financially. Do you feel that, uh, oftentimes that's the case where people just are set on the idea of, I want to purchase and that's, it's set and it's hard to try and get them to understand like, no, there are consequences.
Eric Roberge:100% the, what people don't take into account, they might say that while I can rent or buy, and it's going to cost me X amount in either case with rent, the most you're going to pay on a monthly basis is your rent with buying and owning the lease you're going to pay on a monthly basis is your mortgage, principal, interest taxes and insurance. Because a lot of times you're going to have a leak or a broken window or fix a furnace or refrigerator. Like there's a lot of things that keep coming up. And I think it's usually between one and 4% of the value of the home per year. You're paying out in these expenses, which could be the same amount of money that you were enjoying, um, spending on going out to dinners and enjoying it with friends. And now you can't do those things because you're in the house. So although you might feel great about owning the house, you've reduced your lifestyle so much that you, you might be a little sad that you're now just sitting in your house, not being able to go out and enjoy things like you used to with your buddies.
Chase Peckham:I think the technical term we call that is house pour, right?
Eric Roberge:That's right.
Chase Peckham:Believe me that's. And it's true though. I don't know how many people that I have talked to that have gotten themselves into their homes. They're in this neighborhood that they think they want to be. And they're spending well above 50% of their income to just pay this mortgage. And they find themselves not going on vacations anymore. They're not going and getting their kids into soccer and baseball. And those things because of travel sports are as expensive as they are now or dance or anything else. And those extracurriculars, because they're so strapped into making the mortgage payment every single month that the stresses that they feel like I can't get out of this. And yet then there's that whole idea of, well, if I sell my house and we downgrade, I'm failing, I'm going backwards. And yet that shouldn't necessarily be the mindset it's okay to make mistakes. Right. We're all human.
Eric Roberge:A hundred percent with that too. I mean, I think that if you're not making mistakes, you're not learning now. I don't mean to go out and buy a house and see what kind of mistakes you can make, because
Chase Peckham:That could be a very expensive mistake. Yeah.
Eric Roberge:Right. But you can learn a lot from, from doing things and everything is, is changeable. So paying attention, being proactive with your planning, understanding the different scenarios that could arise, not, you know, looking at everything with rose colored glasses before you buy is really important. Like, what is the worst case scenario? If I, if I do buy and the, the home value doesn't increase, like I thought it would, am I still okay. Selling in five years? And what would the impact be in that case? Um, I think people think real estate is always going to go up. Um, there's never a chance that it could go down in value and therefore you're always going to make money. And that's why they come up with the conclusion that paying rent is always just burning cash. Not the case.
Chase Peckham:Definitely not the case. I mean, there is, there's a reason that people will buy second properties and investment incomes and rent their places out. Cause they're the it's there. People will rent, um, your places and it's not necessarily a bad thing to want to make a lifestyle choice. And I think that's what a lot of people get so involved in emotionally that society says, I need to do this at this point in my life, my wife and I are married. We have a child. We now need to have the white picket fence and the home. And the mortgage is part of that. Yet you can have that same thing by renting. Wouldn't you say
Eric Roberge:You can, because you, you gotta look at what's important to you. What is it? What is important to you and your spouse. Um, so that you can both feel happy doing and content with what you're doing right now, because those priorities may not be well, number one, they may not be the same for each other, or you gotta make sure that you understand that the similarities and differences between your own priorities with those of your spouse, but they may not be the same priorities as you see for the general public. It is a very case by case situation, uh, for us particularly, I mean, I am in New York right now. I'm actually not in the city. I'm in the Hudson river Valley area. My wife and I chose to buy this place because we wanted a vacation like home, a one that we could be at and say, you know what? We would rent this place for a week. If we had to meaning that, you know, you go out and find a place and rent it because it was such a beautiful place. Um, it's nowhere near the city. It's about two hours and 15 minutes away from Boston. And it wasn't necessarily the best financial decision. We weren't saying, this is an investment. We're going to go buy a home. We're going to make a lot of money. We were making a lifestyle choice. But before we made that lifestyle, we also made sure that if we bought this place and continued to have our rental in Boston, that we could still afford to save money. Because if we couldn't still afford to save money, based on those projections, we were not going to buy the place. It was not worth doing away with our savings capabilities, because our longterm financial security and freedom to choose how to live our life along the way, it was much more important than owning a property. But that may not be the same for someone else. Someone else might want to be in it all in the middle of the city. They want to, they have the activities they want to be able to, um, do X, Y, and Z. That is most important to them. They wouldn't be happy doing what we did. And one thing that comes up too a lot is, and you kind of hinted at this when you have people, when people are pregnant and they're having a baby, it seems like it's that point that they really feel that they want to buy the house. So I don't know how many times I've talked to people that say, well, we're having a baby in six months. So we really want to buy a house in three. And I say, Oh boy, because.
Felipe Arevalo:It's financial turmoil time already. It's like, why would you add that to your plate when your finances are shifting every single month while you're waiting for a baby.
Eric Roberge:Right? And it's, it's the, it's the transitionary period, right? That having a child, there's a major transition. There's a lot of unknown and expenses that could pop up, but you're not used to the new cash flow after baby. Then when you buy a house, same thing happens. You buy the house, you don't understand what your new cashflow is going to look like until, you know, you're three, six months into it. So do one thing at a time, get comfortable with that new stage of cashflow and then move on to the second one. Don't do both at the same time, because you're just asking for disaster. Let me ask you this. Um, how would you recommend people? They think they want to live in a specific area that they rent in those areas and live there for awhile while they're looking to buy a home. That's a great idea. Uh, especially, especially if you have, if you aren't familiar with the area, um, if you're out, if you're moving out of state, for example, and you might want to this, I always use this example for people that want to retire to Florida, and I've never been to Florida, right? Like I'm going to move to Florida and you have to grandiose plans to do so. And then you retire, you get down in there. You're like, Oh, I don't really like it down here. And you spend your entire life building up to that point, go test out the waters, see how it is rent rent for a week. I rent for two weeks. If it's going to be something like a Florida thing or rent for a year, if you're going to be moving to a new place in a new city, see how it is, see which areas you like, what neighborhoods are really cool. Uh, what, what restaurants are good. And then, and then, then you buy based on the understanding of where you really would like to be.
Chase Peckham:Bottom line, sum it up. If You were to, if, if you were to tell somebody, you know, when would, you know the right time is, and if let's say you're their CFP, when is that time?
Eric Roberge:Well, the time is first. There's two, there's two pieces. There's one. When you feel that you are ready from a lifestyle perspective, like when do you really feel like it's now the time for me to do this thing? And secondly, it's when you're financially prepared to do so, because regardless of whether you're buying or you're renting, you should be living below your means ideally well below your means, which means that there is a gap between how much you're spending and how much you're making. It's a positive gap so that you have the freedom and flexibility to not only afford pop up emergency expenses along the way that you haven't planned for, but also continue to save consistently over time. Cause it's that savings power. That's going to give you the freedom to live the way you want to live throughout your life. And that's the most important thing for me to see.
Chase Peckham:It's so funny. I just little story. My wife and I lived in a home about a block from where I currently live and we rented it for a number of years and the house that we are currently in came up for sale. And it was during the 2010. So people were, we were in the throws of the economic crash. And so there were a lot of people that had bought homes that were either in, in mortgages that they couldn't afford. Um, because they got some suspect loans, right? That's what a lot of those people got into. And they were paying now the principal on their homes, all of a sudden, and it was like, Oh my gosh. And the house came up for sale. And my wife and I just threw this ridiculous number out there and they took it and we were like, all of a sudden, then we were like, we were happy renting. We weren't even in like, are we really in the market to buy? I'm not sure. And then we threw this number out there that we knew we could afford and they accepted it. And then here we are. Now that is a, during an economic time you talked about it, right? You've, you've worked through some economic, we've been in a bull market. We've been in some economic turmoil a few years as we're finding ourselves in now, although I don't think you could say quite the real estate market has taken a hit. Um, so everybody's gonna find that, that right time to buy. Wouldn't you say that it typically it's going to happen when you're least expecting it?
Eric Roberge:Usually that's the case. I mean, if someone says, you know what we're thinking about buying a house, what I now read into there, because I've heard it so many times is that we'll buy a house the minute it pops up. So instead of waiting until you decide that now is the time you want to buy a house to start saving for a house or any goal for that matter, continue to save beforehand, right? If, if, if three years from now you want to buy a house, start saving now because no one's ever been upset because they saved too much money.
Chase Peckham:Amen. Yeah. We, we try to talk to people about that all the time that, that nest egg, that, that feeling of security and the fact that, you know, you can pay those bills and those emergency bills when they come up, um, far outweighs whether you've got a fifth bedroom or a fourth bedroom, um, because there is that stress. I mean, you tell us, I mean, how much money causes stress in gigantic ways.
Eric Roberge:It does, especially if you don't know what your money, where your money's going, right? It's the fear of the unknown that is oftentimes the most fearful thing for people, whether you're dealing with money or a health situation or an economic environment or an upcoming election. It's the fear of the unknown. That is so, so scary. It's not like once, you know, then you can take action, but until, you know, you're just afraid. So, um, when it comes to, to finances, I often say put on your training wheels first. So if you are in a situation where you're renting and you know that when you buy, it's going to be more expensive because you're choosing to do that. Cause the area you're going to go to is going to be more expensive plan now, or practice now in, in practiced hanging the amount of money that you will have to pay to move into that area, to see if you can afford it, to see if you're stressed financially speaking, by doing so. Because if you realize that, Oh, there's a lot more money going out the door than I thought, because I'm practicing here in the, in the practice is actually filling up your savings account. So it's even better. Um, you may not want to make that move, but if you go through the next six months and you feel like, yeah, we can still afford to live this way because we still have money above. And beyond that point that we can save, then maybe it is a good move for you. There's no reason you can't practice first.
Felipe Arevalo:That's something we teach a lot of times when we present to youth, because we do presentations in the community. That's something I like to try. And in a way, explain to a, you know, first year college students, when they say you think it's a good time for me to move out, like, why don't you start putting away all the expenses you would have into a savings account for a few months, and then you'll have your answer financially, if it's time for you or not. Because if you can't afford to put into savings, you won't be able to afford to pay for everything.
Eric Roberge:That is so great. That's so great. They learned so much from that.
Felipe Arevalo:Right. And does it the most, not the money's going away cause because it's going to your savings
Chase Peckham:But then you have to ask mom and dad, if you want them out or not.
Felipe Arevalo:Oh yeah.
Chase Peckham:Eric, Beyond your hammock. I got to know how did that, where did that name come from? Cause it's very unique.
Eric Roberge:Thank you. It was definitely goin'. We were going for the unique aspect of it because what I had dealt with before I owned the business, before I founded the business was that I would say I'm a financial planner. And if you're on the street and you say you're a financial planner, you're gonna have people that think one thing or another thing, but they always have some opinion about what you do. But because I feel like what we do is so unique. I didn't want people to have an opinion before I even got to explain what I did. So by saying, my company is beyond your hammock, they actually come up with the question. Do you sell hammocks? Instead of, Oh, you're a financial advisor. I know 10 people that do what you do. And they work for X, Y, and Z companies. And I'm just trying to backtrack them out of what they think I do before I even can explain what I do and they don't have to do that anymore.
Chase Peckham:So would you say that beyond just financial advice, your coaching? Oh yes. Um, I mean beyond the word beyond, it's so important to me because I do look beyond societal norms. I don't want to do what everybody else is doing. I've never wanted to do that. And I don't want people to make decisions based on what they think the crowd is doing. I want them to look inside to see what they want to look at things from a new perspective beyond society and then make decisions based on their own vision for the future. So it's, it's much more than just investment. It's much more than just cashflow. It's designing a future that you love and then using money to help support that life that you live inside of that
Eric Roberge:Eric is also the host of Beyond Finances podcast. You can find that podcast, I would imagine on your website at, beyond your hammock and you can also find it anywhere. I would imagine that podcasts are found. That is correct. It's on anything that you listen to a podcast on. It's probably gonna be there.
Chase Peckham:Yeah, they're great. And they're, they're not super long there I've listened to a number of them and you guys it's really, really well done.
Eric Roberge:Thank you very much. As is this one.
Chase Peckham:Really appreciate your time.
Eric Roberge:Yeah, my pleasure. This is a fun one to be on,
Chase Peckham:well, thank you very much.
Eric Roberge:Thank you for having me.
Felipe Arevalo:we try and make it entertaining.
Chase Peckham:That's awesome, Eric, thank you again for joining us today and giving those people that are stressed out about the fact that they're only renting that that's okay.
Eric Roberge:It is. Okay. Just have a plan.
Chase Peckham:Thanks very much.