Talk Wealth to Me

#066 Shootin the Financial $h%! - Flipping the Script

December 11, 2020 Felipe Arevalo, Chase Peckham, Katie Utterback Season 3 Episode 15
Talk Wealth to Me
#066 Shootin the Financial $h%! - Flipping the Script
Show Notes Transcript

Shootin the Financial S%# is back for a deep yet humorous look at the way we look at money.  
Many studies have shown that we can train our brains to look at situations differently by telling a different story or looking at it from another angle, this is no different with how we look and feel about money and finances. The Shootin crew sits down and discusses different ways to look at our #moneymindset and and how they themselves have evolved over the years. In a year that has been so out of the ordinary the practice of #flippingthescript has never been more important.

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Intro:

Welcome to Talk Wealth to Me, a safe space podcast where we chat about anything and everything related to personal finance, the information contained in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It does not constitute as accounting, legal tax or other professional advice. [inaudible].

Chase Peckham:

Good morning, everybody. How are we doing?

Katie Utterback:

Good.

Felipe Arevalo:

Doing good.

Chase Peckham:

I'm super excited and pumped up to talk about , uh, flipping the script today. I think there's nothing better than this time of year, right. Going into the new year we're in the holiday season. And the way we look at things can really determine so many things when it comes to our emotions and the decisions we make.

Katie Utterback:

Oh yeah. Even like, not just with money too, but if you think about it back in March or April.

Felipe Arevalo:

You mean ten years ago?

Katie Utterback:

And the idea of staying at home until November, December, I didn't know if I was going to make it, like, it just seems so long, but I'm doing it. I did it. And I think it's kind of one of those things like you , you just kind of find different ways to process things or just handle the stuff that gets thrown at you.

Chase Peckham:

No doubt. I mean, in this specially this year, I mean, with so much unknown and so much time with ourselves and our thoughts it's and even going where we are now in December going forward, we still don't know when life is going to be quote unquote and quote normal. And you know, how normal is it that we're in the positions we're in now? Uh, the , your mind really has so much with how we deal with this. Right.

Felipe Arevalo:

Well, 2020 has been like the longest year and the shortest year, all in one it's , it's just been such an odd year that , um, you know, you mentioned changing the mindset 2020 has changed a lot of people's mindsets, whether they were ready for it looking forward or not know people have different perception of a lot of things, finances included. Um, just because of everything that's happened in 2020,

Chase Peckham:

Katie, I know that you recently wrote a blog about this very subject. So what was the inspiration for it? And let's kind of go through that whole process.

Katie Utterback:

You know, I was thinking about it and on the show , um, and even off the show, we've talked about how one of the stories that I've told myself and I've told other people is that I'm bad at math and bad with money. And I just kind of took it like, well, that's just the story. That's just how it was written. It has always been that way. It always will be that way. And I really started , um, listening to what you guys were saying, our guests were saying. And so many people have been in far worse financial situations than I've ever been in, and they've managed to achieve financial success, financial freedom. So I really started digging into it and I found that there is such thing as a money mindset or a money script. So basically what that means is like a film or like literature. There's a story playing in our heads 24 seven that tells us how we handle our money, how we save our money, how we invest our money, whether or not we can even keep our money, or if we're not to be trusted holding even $5. And as it turns out, because you did not pop out of the womb, believing that story, you can change it. And so I found out there are three different money archetypes. So the first is the most common type of mindset it's called the scarcity mindset. And that is the idea of there is, and there never will be enough money. And that's kind of the one that I had fallen into. Um, but there's also a good enough archetype and that is, I have what I need. I'm I'm doing just fine, right where I am. So those are the people that they may not have debt or their debt may not be too bad. Uh , but they're not necessarily worried about it. They're not necessarily trying to pay it off faster. They're not necessarily worried about the amount of money that they may be paying in interest rates.

Chase Peckham:

They're content where they are.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah just, they are just super content, not looking to go higher, not looking to move back. Just almost like a Goldilocks, just perfect, right where I am. And then there's the , the people that think in terms of limitless abundance. So I need to have it all. I want to have it all. And these are the people that, yes, some of these people become millionaires and billionaires, but these are also the people that maybe traveled to 57 different countries and funded it , uh , by splitting it on nine different credit cards. And they have no idea how they're going to be able to afford rent or groceries. So there's a whole lot of stuff that goes on into our mindset of when we're dealing with money. But like I said, the cool thing is you can change it. So I wanted to play a game with you guys. Are you up for it?

Chase Peckham:

Let's do it.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah, let's do it.

Chase Peckham:

Love games .

Katie Utterback:

I want you guys to do this too, if you're listening. So I'm going to say a sentence with a missing word, and I want you to just spit out the first word that comes to your mind. Okay. Money is the root of all. ___________

Felipe Arevalo:

Evil.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah. I would've said evil because of the word root . I think,

:

That's a phrase I've heard before. You could have put anything instead of money. And I still would've said evil.

Katie Utterback:

Earning money is ___________

Felipe Arevalo:

Cool.

Chase Peckham:

Awesome. That's funny how you did that. You just, you did that on purpose.

Katie Utterback:

What?

Chase Peckham:

You knew that we had heard the root of all evil before. So that's something that came right to our heads, right?

Katie Utterback:

Yeah well, hold on we're not done with the game.

Chase Peckham:

Oh, sorry .

Katie Utterback:

And rich people are______ fill in the blank.

Chase Peckham:

Lucky.

Katie Utterback:

Okay, good. We'll go with that one. So if you did say money is the root of all evil, or if you thought earning money is hard, money doesn't grow on trees or rich. People are bad. Guess what? You are like the majority of people, you have a scarcity mindset. It's not a bad thing. It's just good to know where you are. Now, if you answered those questions a little bit differently. So like you said, rich people are lucky, or maybe you said rich people are giving , um , money is the root of all freedom or opportunity. Earning money is easy or money doesn't grow on inaction. Then you actually have a more positive money story. And so that could be a sign that your scarcity mindset is starting to , uh , what's the word I'm looking for? You're starting to shift that mindset a little bit.

Chase Peckham:

Starting to evolve?

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. So you're not as fixed. It's not as scarce. So you're starting to see that there are different possibilities that exist. And that is something that we don't always teach with financial literacy. Um, but it is actually a growing part of financial literacy. It's how do you talk about money? How do you like if you get a , um, we talked about this when we were talking about self-care , but like I just spent $10 on celery juice. I don't like celery juice. I think it tastes terrible, but it's really good for you. If I got mad at myself for spending $10 on a juice that I wasn't sure I was going to completely finish. I'm thinking it was scarcity, right? Because money is actually an energy. It's just how we're doing things, how we're exchanging things on this earth. So if you answered rich, people are bad. You may have this idea. Like I once had that there are people that just kind of like hoard money or just sit on it and they don't want to share, like, almost like they went to the playground. Someone came wanted to play in the sandbox, they got mad. They took all their toys home with them. You don't have to do that with money.

Chase Peckham:

That's interesting. You say that there's so many different, again, the money personalities and we, there , there are types too . Right? So, cause we talk about in a simpler case , uh , that they're spenders, there are savers, right. There are builders and then there are givers and , and tend to, most people kind of live in that they're either spenders or savers. Right. There's those people and that kind of flips right into the idea of scarcity mindset. Right. And that's really interesting that you say that because you kind of want to be, I guess what you would consider healthy would be somewhere in between because you don't want to be a complete saver. Right. You've got to be able to spend on something. You've gotta be able to not just hoard all of it. Cause that's, that's kind of an issue too. And yet you don't want to be the spender, like crazy where you're going to spend, you know , your mortgage and, and, and , uh, jam up your credit cards. There's gotta be somewhere where you can look at life and the way you're looking at money. I guess Katie, what you're saying is when a lot of people look at money, just the way they look at life a bit right there , either if you're, if you're scared, you're going to be scared in a lot of different ways.

Katie Utterback:

A little bit. And part of it is the trick is that it's so subconscious. So 95% of the decisions that we're making every day occur on a subconscious level. So how you even feel about money? I think it was , um, with our podcast , we were talking about how do you talk to your kids about money? It's like the a child's relationship with money or how they view money. That is formed by the time they're like seven. So I'm 30. I have had my money story reinforced over and over and over again. And because it's been reinforced over and over again, I've come to believe. It's true. Right. But then, you know, like Felipe and I have also discussed , um, the FIRE movement, the financial independence retire early there. I think there was some guy that was eating. Was it ketchup packets or like taco bell, hot sauce packets, like to save money.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah like the guy in "The Terminal."

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. Like that is something that if you eating taco bell, hot sauce, packets makes you feel rich. I mean, I , I have a lot of questions for you.

Chase Peckham:

I have a lot of questions.

Katie Utterback:

Because I would be looking at it too . Like sure. You may have more money in the bank and your grocery budget or bill may look ridiculously cheap and you, you may look like you're just killing it , um, in terms of budget, grocery shopping.

Felipe Arevalo:

Investment or whatever.

Katie Utterback:

But yeah, but what happens, long-term what happens to your, to your body? What's going to happen to your health bills when all you've been feeding your body is hot sauce.

Chase Peckham:

That's not nourishment.

Katie Utterback:

No. So I think like that's kind of something to consider too, is that with your finances, it's part of your whole holistic self. You know, like if you're going to fast food restaurants to try to save on money. Cause it seems cheaper to go to Jack in the Box and to go to VONS or whatever. It may be cheaper today for this one day, but long-term is it cheaper? And that's kind of the same thing with your money mindset today, you may think like, Ugh , rich people, I don't want to deal with them or they're bad or whatever. But if you think rich people are bad, are you going to prevent yourself from becoming rich? Are you going to sabotage your financial decisions so that you don't think of yourself as bad?

Felipe Arevalo:

That is interesting because there's so many to , to all of them there's there seems to be that positive and that negative where, where it becomes like you, you can, you need to take a little bit from each one, you know, where, where take the positives and leave the negatives behind.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. I've actually started playing a game with myself just to try to test, to see if this will help me in terms of working toward my long-term financial goals. So I want to buy a house, but I'm also like, so outfit fatigued right now. I want an entire new wardrobe. I want to like redecorate. I just have all these wants. And I'm very much so distracted by the shiny glittery object on the website and in the sales email, all of that. So I've been playing this would you rather game. Would I rather get a new Fabletics box this month or do I want to apply that $65 toward a house is the $65 going to get me there next month? Maybe not, but all of those little things add up.

Chase Peckham:

It's really interesting that conversation. I think we had with Ilene in our last podcast episode, and I was talking about Clay wanting to spend $5 to support some kid. He follows on a gaming platform called I'm not sure what it's called.

Katie Utterback:

Twitch.

Chase Peckham:

Twitch. Yes. And we had the conversation of sitting down and saying, well, Clay, is that really where you want to spend the $5 that took you some time to, to make right. I mean, to earn. And he said, well, yeah, because I really like him and right now, and I said, Oh, that's it right. You just said right now, because two weeks from now, you're possibly going to want to support somebody else because you like them right then, or right. You know, you're current right now. And yet then, but that money is fleeting. It goes away. So you have to be able to say, well, this isn't worth it to me right now. And that's basically what you're saying about Fabletics right. The shiny objects.

Katie Utterback:

Well kind of, cause I, I seen a Twitch thing a little bit differently and this is, I'm bringing it up .

Chase Peckham:

I'd love to know why.

Katie Utterback:

I, because I identify, I guess, as an artist I've always been labeled , um, like as a writer, artists like performer. So as an artist to see , um, like a younger kid get excited about supporting another artist makes me excited because I truly believe that that $5 going the Twitch stream or whatever is going to go back into the community more than it would. If clay went into that $5 and bought like a Nintendo game or whatever, I know Nintendo is not $5.

Chase Peckham:

I don't get how this Twitch works, then I guess.

Katie Utterback:

I don't really know either, but like my husband likes it too. And it's an entirely different world. And it blew my mind when my husband told me that the video game industry makes like double or triple what like movies and music make combined. It's astonishing.

Felipe Arevalo:

I love video games. I just can't see where like I believe in Twitch Twitch, they watch the streaming and they watch other people play games. Yeah. And as much as I love video games, I absolutely cannot. Like the idea of sitting there watching someone play video games, doesn't register with me. I'm having a very difficult time understanding why Barrington wants to watch YouTube videos of people playing video games.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah that's really a weird thing.

Felipe Arevalo:

And, and then , and then, you know, then I started thinking about it. I was like, I love watching sports. I could watch, you know , soccer and baseball and some college football. And I could watch that all day if I have nothing else to do. Um, that's in, he can't stand watching sports much to my dismay. Um , you know, and, and it's, it's, that's what I like . That's what he like. But it's a very interesting industry in that whole paid to like support thing. Um, I still would probably side more with, with Chase and be like, well, you sure ,?you know , you really wanted that PS5. Maybe you should put that $5 towards you getting to play the video game at some point down the road.

Chase Peckham:

Well, that was my point. And I, and I, I , uh , I, now I look at that side of what Katie mentioning and , and putting, paying it forward, so to speak. And , but at the same time, I want him to understand that the decisions he makes, that if he's making the decision to support that artist, and he's doing that in a way of like, he's not going to gain anything outside of just the , the feeling good that he's supporting somebody. Cause he mentioned, he said, I love his content. And that's crazy that my 12 year old son uses a term in a word like content. Uh , and in this world, because obviously we are living in a world of giant. It's a huge amount of content. My point is, as a father and somebody that's trying to teach somebody about money is that money that he's, don't, that's fleeting and it , and it's you you've made the decision to spend it there and it's not coming back unless you're constantly earning it. Are you sure that you want to spend your money, that you don't have an abundance of? Are you sure that's where it should be spent? And as he mentioned, what else am I going to do with my money right now? And you know, I didn't really have an argument.

Katie Utterback:

I think that's, I'm just curious. Um, cause I'm not a parent. What does that like, because we always talk about personal finances, personal.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah.

Katie Utterback:

What is it like as a parent when you're personal finance? I don't want to say like morality, but your goals don't align with your kids.

Chase Peckham:

It's it's uh, I can tell you that I find myself having to take my beliefs and my even, even though I've lived a long time and I've got a whole lot of history that I can take from and experience, it's not his experience. And I don't have the experience of sitting down and playing video games for a long time. And as Phil, you just mentioned watching other people play video games to me is mind boggling, but obviously it does strike a chord with his generation because all of his buddies do it. And he obviously knows about this Twitch because he was introduced to it by them and they get some pleasure out of it. So I find that I have to take myself out of what I think should be his money should be spent on or what he should or shouldn't spend money on and try to look at if he gives me an argument of why to him, it is a good investment, so to speak then who am I to tell him otherwise, if I'm going to give $5 to the San Diego financial Literacy Center, because I like what they do, that doesn't mean that I'm right versus somebody else that gives $5 to the San Diego Blood bank or to anybody. You know, we all have the personal fortitude to make the decisions that we want to based on what we get pleasure out of. What makes us feel better? What we , uh , have interests in just because I think my son is crazy to want to watch somebody else play a video game when he's got the same video game sitting right in front of him, who am I to make that decision for him ? And I , and I can't, all I can do is say, here are the tools to assess what making a sound decision would be. What do you ultimately makes that decision on where it goes that's, it's gotta be completely up to him.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah, I think you're right. Katie. It's, there's, there's gotta be that balancing act where you kind of inform and maybe even, you know, make a suggestion as to where they're going to like, okay, just let me just verify that this, you understand, especially, you know, Barrington's younger and he wanted to buy extra characters for Super Smash Bros. And, and to me it was silly. You know, there's already 50 characters to pick from why are you going to , but then I remember it. He doesn't spend money. And he, this is probably only the second time ever he's asked to spend money or even volunteered after being suggested . Like, you know, you could buy that yourself if you want it. His answer is usually, "no, I'd rather keep my money." So this was the first time he was very excited and I said, you know what, go get me $7.

Felipe Arevalo:

And yes, you can purchase the added characters so that you can have those as well. Um, and he was so excited to spend his $7 on what to me sounded like you don't need it. And , and it sounds silly, but he was just.

Chase Peckham:

Did he hand you over the cash?

Felipe Arevalo:

Oh, I made him go into his little jar and pick up the , the actual $7. And I actually took them from him. Uh , even though I already had the credits in the Nintendo account because it's just easier to preload them. Uh , I made him give $7 and I.

Chase Peckham:

They have to feel that right?

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah.

Chase Peckham:

That feeling of losing or not losing or the transaction itself.

Felipe Arevalo:

Spending, right.

Chase Peckham:

Otherwise it's just that just, that just happened. And that's what my daughter looks at. So Katie, but you know , I say that as rational in this podcast right now, but as a parent, I find that my, I don't handle that nearly as well all the time, because it's still emotional for me. And saying, as my dad used to use this word, he would say that's folderol like that . That I hate that word because my dad used to say it to me a lot. And yet that's exactly what I think Clay spending his money on. Right. It's it's falderal um, my daughter does the same thing. She plays this game that I, I'm not sure what it's called, but she wants to buy. And this is the world we live in, in video games that it's , uh , in fact, my son just walked in. What's that video game, your sister plays?

Felipe Arevalo:

I s it like Roblocks?

Chase Peckham:

Roblocks, and she wants to buy Robux or whatever they're called. And so she wanted to spend $10 on that the other day. And she gets all excited about it. Cause she gets these new things and features. And that really drives me crazy because that is the free game that these kids get to play. And then they just throw endless amounts of money on it because they can get new characters or new clothes or whatever it is that is almost Katie . You're our adult version of Amazon or Fabletics or whatever it is. We spend our money on. Cause it all, even though she , cause she's just throwing money in and it's , she's not really gaining anything from it, except for instant gratification where at least you get something you get to put on clothes. Right?

Felipe Arevalo:

And you know, Barrington wanted to start playing that game and he kept telling Sarah , you know, "it's free! Mom. We can download it for free." You don't have to pay anything. Can I download it? And let me , let me, I research everything before I download it. And then I saw what it was and the fact that there were sales on gift cards and all that stuff. And I told Sarah, no I was like, no. Tell him no, because you know, what's going to happen is he's going to want, he's going to have the game it's free. And then he's gonna want to either spend his money or continuously ask , can I go buy more credits?

Chase Peckham:

He's going to get better at it. And he's going to need all these features to get better at it. and keep baying for things. It's brilliant.

Felipe Arevalo:

But then I think about it.

Chase Peckham:

I wish I would have come up with it.

Felipe Arevalo:

But then I think about it And I signed up for Masterclass yesterday, you know, who's to say that makes any sense. Um, you know, to him, I , I told, I try to, Hey buddy, you want to watch this video on. He says he wants to write songs Some day. So I said, look, I got Alicia Keys teaching you how to write songs. And, and he was like, yeah, maybe later it was , even though it was a topic that he's interested in, he thought the idea of sitting there watching the video, just didn't make sense.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah.

Chase Peckham:

Robux. She just got home from school.

Katie Utterback:

Sometimes. I think though, too. Um, I'm definitely the type of personality I have to make my own mistakes. And I can actually remember when I was younger, I took my hard earned babysitting money and I bought my younger sister, a $70, like Roxy three piece swimsuit. And nobody asked me like, are you sure? Like whatever. So we got home and I was like, Oh. Like, I don't have a swimsuit. I spent all my money on hers. I've never forgotten that story because it was just like, I literally took all I had, I spent it on somebody else. And then when it came time to go to the pool, I had nothing.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah. That was like that you were an over giver.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. You can be and over a giver or an over just like everything else. You're right. And then you ended up having to like wear something from the season before because you had given away too much. You know , that's an interesting story because I think we , we talk to people sometimes when we're doing budgets and, and you look at it and you go through their expenses and you know, it's like, you've cut back everywhere. You are making so many sacrifices just to try and scrape by, but you haven't cut back on your giving. Um, is that a possibility? Can you maybe donate your time or, or, or something else, or just hold off on financial giving until you can get things going in the right direction again. And, and sometimes the answer is no, I'd rather cut back everywhere else, except, but it is possible to have giving and donating and, and things like that. That well-intended great thing that that's important. Um, be the reason people are having financial difficulties,

Chase Peckham:

Well, we've seen that a lot with , and I don't mean to put certain generations in there, but we see that a lot with seniors and that giving to church, and they're , they're struggling with, they're just getting their retirement checks or their social security, and they're giving literally a quarter of their income to church or whatever it might be. And that's just, that gives them fulfillment. That makes them feel like they're giving where they want to. But again, you could have that conversation. It would say like, your church would want you to be healthy financially and not putting yourself in harm's way. You can give a little bit less to the church and still make your house payment. Right. But so with the money mindset like that, Katie, how would you and your research, how do they flip the script? And something like that,

Katie Utterback:

The first step is to start journaling. And I know that not journaling is not everyone's favorite thing, but it's the easiest way to track how you're feeling about money in that moment. So, for example, if you wake up in the morning and your routine is to go to Starbucks journal about what that experience is like for you, is that the only five to 10 minute break or quiet in your day, is that what that Starbucks means to you? You know, write that down. Um, I love the peace and calm. When I pick up my Starbucks coffee, I know that the kids are taken care of. I know they're where they're supposed to be. And this, this coffee is my little me time . It's where I can have a few moments to myself before I walk into work. And the chaos just ensues. Um, but if you're maybe not a coffee drinker like me, and you're like, okay, why am I stopping at Starbucks? Like, that might be a real good question, you know? And it's like, okay, maybe instead of spending $5 on green tea at Starbucks, I buy a pack of green tea and I use my kettle at home. Or even if I don't have the kettle, I can warm up the water in the microwave. There's little things that you can do that you can still get what it is that you like. So you can get that cup of coffee. You can get that cup of tea, but you can manage it. So like going back to, would you rather, for me, I would rather buy Fabletics than go out and get fresh tea every morning. So that's kind of something that I budget for. Um, I want to buy a house. I want to have kids one day. So these are all things I'm budgeting for. And then I'm weighing my options. So like, am I gonna plan , um , a trip around the world when the COVID pandemic lets up? Probably not because I would rather have a house and I would rather work toward building my family one day. So those are kind of the things that I'm weighing, everything against yours may be completely different. You know, you're in a different.

Felipe Arevalo:

I'm going to plan it But I'm not going to go. I'm just actually not going to purchase it. I'm just going to plan it and like, Oh hypothetically ,

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. We know Felipe is going to go on a road trip. Right? So that might be his thing.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yes.

Katie Utterback:

Like, would I rather, you know, go to this SDSU soccer game or football game and get tested 10 times, or we go on this road trip. I mean, it's just this constant, like weighing of what it is you want. And I'm kind of going back to what our previous guests, Ilene was talking about. Imagine you are the driver, not that there's another angry driver out there. Imagine you are the driver you're on your way to your short-term goals, your long-term goals. There's going to be a whole lot of stuff that pops up on the sides. It's going to be shiny objects and signs and sirens and other cars and other people. And if you're constantly comparing your car, how fast you're going to other people around you, you're going to start crab walking and go sideways. You're not going to be moving forward because you're going to be constantly like, well, maybe I'll arrive faster in this car or I'll arrive cuter in this car. And when you constantly change your goals around like that, you move sideways not forward. So when you journal, you can really think about that. And when you ask yourself, would I rather have this or that you can really think about, am I moving toward my long-term goals and short-term goals? Or am I just kind of getting sidetracked by something else?

Chase Peckham:

That's really, I think that's very, very good advice. And you said something that stuck with me and I want to, I want to backtrack a second. You mentioned that I want Fabletics and you'd really like that to put them on, but is there another reason for that as well? I mean, did the Fabletics make you feel better? Do they, do they also make you feel like I'm going to work out more that there's, I mean, are there other avenues to just then just wearing the clothes?

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. So for me personally, yes. I like to look cute, no matter what I'm doing, do I always look cute? Maybe not perception. But when I'm taking my dog out in the morning, if I have on like a , a baggy t-shirt or I have on like loose pants, I don't feel good. So yes, I love the fabric pants with the pockets that I have on right now, because I can have, you know, every, any I can have my phone, I can have the house key. I can have the doggy poo bags. I can have everything that I need. And not only do I look cute, it's functional. So it works for me. Right. And there's other things. And I just picked Fabletics cause it's a, it's a silly example. And it's something that I actually have to select every month, whether they're going to charge my card or whether I'm going to go in and skip that month. And when I skip, they ask me, why. Is it not in your budget this month? And I pretty much always select it . Yes. It's not in my budget this month.

Chase Peckham:

At least they asked that though, the forethought of that is fantastic. And I just saw that Cyber Monday, they put their entire , uh, platform on sale, which I don't believe that.

Felipe Arevalo:

Don't tell Katie.

Katie Utterback:

Don't remind me .

Chase Peckham:

Well I mean , yeah.

Katie Utterback:

No, here's why I, like, I didn't buy anything on Black Friday, Cyber Monday. I didn't do any of that. So I feel like I just, everyone just got everything that I have for like 50% off. And I'm like, what about, me?

Chase Peckham:

I don't think it was as good as you think. I didn't buy anything either. Um , my wife even didn't buy any. Oh, she did one. She bought a candle that she found for 50% off. Um , but all the different things, we , we looked at it and there was, we had the list of the things that we know that the kids want for Christmas or that we were going to do for each other. And if it wasn't on that list, we weren't going to do it. And we ended up buying nothing. Which I think that's the first time in a long time that that's been the case. And you know, I talk about Keri on this podcast a lot and how , um, she's so together, but one thing she's not where she does, she does is impulsive when it comes to purchase this sometimes like she gets into the mindset of like, I'm working hard. I should get this and I'm going to buy it no matter what, or I want to look at , um, she'll get something in her mind, like when it comes to furniture, right? She'll look at one piece of furniture and she'll say, I'm sick of that. I can't handle that anymore. And it will just, that's all I hear about. And that's all she'll research for the next, however long. And the next thing you know, it's, Hey, we're going to get a new couch. And I just laugh because I know that's just her personality yet. She has now really, since COVID, for whatever reason, really kind of checked that, changed that a bit where now it's okay. You know what? This couch isn't as bad as I really think she is flipping the script, even though that doesn't financially keeping that couch isn't I guess it is a financial decision because we're not going out and buying another ridiculously priced couch. But just by the decision of her having a different discussion about the way she sees that couch has saved us thousands of dollars, just because now she has a better relationship with the couch. Now, if that isn't deep, it is interesting though, isn't it? That every decision we make is financially not necessarily intentionally financially driven, but as you said, subconscious,

Katie Utterback:

Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo:

She has an eye for design though, because we were in a zoom meeting yesterday and you got a lot of compliments for your background. They even asked for you to take a picture and send it to them so that they could use it as their virtual background. So, you know, compliments to her.

Chase Peckham:

You know what I did pass that along to her and it made her feel pretty good. Cause I've made fun of her. I was making fun of her when she did it. Um , because our house is very gray and white and she likes that, that, that look that kind of very sharp, very clear. And I always would laugh because when she got, you can see that the, the , um , uh, stockings in the background are all white and our personal ones. That's where the personal ones used to be. The personal ones are now on our , uh, going up our stairs or stair railing. And I'm like, you're getting rid of our personal. And she's like those bright red that none of them they're not coordinated and everything else. So, but again for her, I go, okay, that works. And she's, you know, I don't have to go out and buy a new house right now because she has made our cozy little house , uh, what she wants. So it's the personalities you have to deal with within a relationship and the decisions that you make understanding and communicating about money about. And really because most of the decisions we make have a financial component. Right. We talk about that all the time. Every decision we make has a financial component to it.

Katie Utterback:

Oh yeah.

Chase Peckham:

So having those discussions and, and fighting quote unquote, fighting those battles, where would I have liked to see, you know, the stocking say Clay and Avery and , well, I don't get to see them over my fireplace, but I do get to see them over here. Is that worth me getting into a , uh , an altercation, a fight over it or get into an argument over it? Or is it just me looking at her going, you know what? It really does look nice. It really does look beautiful in here. We can, we can let the sentimentality of that go a little bit and say, it's okay to change.

Katie Utterback:

Right. And we make those compromises in relationships all the time. And it's the same thing kind of with money. It's just a compromise of, instead of Keri getting a new couch, she's I don't know. Are you going to take her to Hawaii when everything reopens?

Chase Peckham:

Oh, heck yeah! We see , uh , we see eye to eye on that. And that's the thing when we see eye to eye on, on most things, but you find in, especially during COVID, we have found that I have found, and I don't know about you guys, but I mean, I've been married to Keri for almost 15 years and we've been together 18. And yet during this COVID we found out so much more about our everyday personalities. Like I'm seeing her work personality on a daily basis, which I don't normally see. And she sees mine, we come home and we talk and we know that part of us, but there's so much on a given day that we don't see, even though we we've been together so long. I mean, if you think about it, Felipe knows the way I work everyday , way better than my wife ever did because we work together every day. You know, where our spouses don't see that.

Felipe Arevalo:

I normally sit next to Katie.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo:

At the office, you know,

Chase Peckham:

It's interesting. I, I'm almost more in love with my wife after COVID than I probably was before. Or, or maybe it's not more in love with maybe just more respect of watching her process and the way her personality is during work. Uh, that, but that could go the other way, right there are we also, you know, I can tell that I get on her nerves a little bit more and it's probably not just me. It's just the fact that we're all in close quarters together for so much more than we're used to. And you don't have the outlet of your colleagues at your desk. You know, like we used to do this podcast in our office. Right. And we, for me, I miss that. I miss the us getting together, putting the headset on laughing before and after, and we don't get that anymore. We get the zoom and you guys all look great. And your , you know, your art in the background, Katie is amazing. And Felipe your art has not changed one iota, not once, It's "Let's go Muchaco" has been there since we started.

Felipe Arevalo:

Sarah steals the art. Well, Barrington does make art and Ignacio but Sarah has her little corner. I'll have to send you guys a picture and she's hogging up all the art. Um, because as you know, my desk at the office, there's not much art. There's a lot of stuff on it, but not a lot of art. And she, her little area at the office has lots of little things, art, pictures, all that stuff. So she's staring at a blank corner wall. Uh, you know, she's got a window, but she doesn't have all her little art. So she's been stealing all the kids' art and she's been taping it to the wall in front of her. Um , and I don't get any of the art and none of it makes it to me. I get to look at it , uh, when I work out. But that's about it.

Chase Peckham:

Well, it's just interesting how you can really mindfulness. I think a lot of, you know, if , if you go to therapy or you listen to podcasts and where you meditate, I mean, we think about mindful. You hear mindfulness now come up quite a bit. And that's a lot of what we're talking about, right? With flipping the script or your , your money , uh , your money mindset. A lot of that has to do with all that, our emotions, everything we go through. Um, if we just sit back and I love the idea of journaling, and if you just, I, that helped me with my mom when she passed away. And I wrote a letter to her , um, just telling her how much I appreciated her, even though it's not going to her, just the outlet of writing it down and getting all that out , um, is amazing how much you can reflect and see,

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. If you get it out of your head and onto paper, there's something that happens. And you're able to almost mirror yourself in a way. And yeah, it's quite , um, it's quite something, isn't it?

Chase Peckham:

It's therapeutic.

Katie Utterback:

It's very therapeutic.

Chase Peckham:

It's therapeutic. And if you have that idea, Katie, you mentioned that you saw rich people and I don't know, I think you probably, the younger person saw rich people as a greedy or , um, I don't know mean or UN UN giving. Um, You know.

Katie Utterback:

I kind of pictured , um, do you remember the original Willy Wonka? What was her name for? Veruca like the rich girl who like,

Chase Peckham:

Oh yeah.

Katie Utterback:

Sits on the golden Eggs. I kind of picture like that kind of like that's what I thought of.

Chase Peckham:

Oh like bratty, like spoiled .

Katie Utterback:

Yeah.

Chase Peckham:

Okay.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah just like Yeah.

Chase Peckham:

But do you see that? Do you see that now?

Katie Utterback:

No. Um , that's not like the first thought that comes to me because it's been ingrained for so long. Um, but my second thought is Katie, you know, that's not true. There are tons of people that have tons of money and they take that money to do really good, positive things with it.

Chase Peckham:

What about you on your , on a personal level and , and where you see yourself going in the future, whatever it might be, do you have aspirations to be successful financially? And the reason I ask that is because a lot of people will think on both ends of the script. You know , I'm trying very hard. My son has been brought up in a home where he's never not had, you know, creature comforts that. And I, we we've taken him through different parts of San Diego and driven around and shown my kids that look, you might think we live in a small house, but you have no idea what other people are going through. The point I'm trying to get to is we also, we work with people so often that they come from nothing and it's been so entrenched in their minds that they're going to , they're never going to be able to have money because nobody in their family ever has, or the neighborhood has never afforded any money. But yet , um, that can change. You can write your own script, somebody's script is somebody's , uh, their , the travels that they take might be longer to get where they want to go. But they , it can't happen if mentally, you just say, I'm going to do this, this, this, and this and this. It will ultimately get you there. Right. So do you have, did you ever at a period of time thought, well, this is just where I'm going to be. This is the money I'm going to make, and I'm never going to get any further. Cause that's just the way my family has always been. Or are you now have you taken on that? I can do whatever I want. I can achieve it if I put in the work, if there's going to be luck along the way. But if , if I do these steps and I'm diligent about it, I am going to, I'm going to get there.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. I mean, for 28 and a half 28, 28 and a half years of my life, I was very much, this is just as good as it's going to get. Um, if it gets a little bit better, then that's just going to be like, I was blessed and lucky or whatever. Um, but in the last year and a half or so, I really kind of took power back from it. And I was, I've been really kind of training my brain that anything is possible because I never, I mean, I grew up in, in Minneapolis and I used to dream about living in California. Like truthfully, like I would count down the winters. I'd be like, this is my last winter here I am done. And I did it. I moved here. It never, it didn't pan out the way that I wanted it to, but I was even thinking about how I met my husband. I wanted this beautiful, like romantic fairytale story. No, that's not what happened. Truthfully. We exchanged numbers on Tinder. So like, it doesn't matter how it happens. It just matters if it happens. Right. And I , I read a quote the other day. It was the difference between millionaires and billionaires is that a billionaire will look at a problem and get excited because they're like, Ooh, a challenge, something, you know, to test me, push my limits, to see how far I can go. And I think that's such a beautiful way to just kind of look at life and your finances, no matter where you're starting, where you can go is limitless. It's based on what you think you can do and how hard you're willing to work for it. To some extent, I realize that there are some systemic issues that affect some people from achieving full success. Um, but I, I truly believe that the mind is a lot powerful than we've ever given it a credit.

Chase Peckham:

Well , and I think that's true and you're right. There are systemic issues that , that make it more difficult for the path to be traveled for success. Um, but I still believe you're right, but there are those that just say, I'm not going to let this stop me. I am not going to just because society or the history has shown that, that, that I am going to be held back because of this. I am not going to let that happen. I am going to go forward. And I think in this podcast and other podcasts that I've listened to, we've heard these success stories. You know, there was the incredible story of the lady in , in Australia who never ever would, no matter how bad it got and it got bad, she kept saying, this is not my script. I am not going to let this happen. And she didn't let the people around her tell her, this is the way it's supposed to be. We are going to go forward. And I find inspiration in that. And I find inspiration, even though my kids have been brought up, not knowing what struggle is. You know, their idea of struggle is not letting me buy them. Robux like, I'm a bad dad because I'm not giving her 10 bucks for robux. I want to teach them that. Even if you are brought up in quote unquote wealth, that doesn't mean you're going to stay there. That doesn't mean that, that, that mom and dad, or the family is going to be there to give you this support the whole way, the rest of your life, you have to trailblaze on your own. You have to make your own road. And we are preparing you, at least as parents, we are trying to prepare you to do that. We are going to give you every opportunity. Now do , do we afford my kids more opportunities than a lot of parents are able to afford their kids? Yeah, probably so. And are there people that have a lot more opportunities for their kids than I am able to afford mine? Yes, but that's why I look at it. Like we are going to do the best thing that we can for you. You have to blaze your own trail. You you're going to be successful financially, happiness, whatever, by your own work, it's not going to be because of what mom and dad did for a living. It's not going to, because the house that you were brought up in, just because you were brought up in a certain house does not mean that you are dictated that that's the kind of house you're going to live in when you grow up.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah.

Chase Peckham:

You may leave this house. You're going to graduate from college and you're starting from zero. If you graduate from college, congratulations to you. And that's , that's the mindset I'm trying to get into my children. Uh, as much as I love to get that mindset into children that are brought up with not a lot of opportunity that it's still available to you. If you want it, you just have to do that. And I have to tell myself that every single day, you have to tell yourself that Phil , you have to tell yourself that. it's because our minds are constantly coming up with reasons that we can't do something.

Katie Utterback:

Oh yeah. Imposter syndrome is a huge part of that. And I think , um, I want to go back to Twitch for a second though. Cause I think it's such a great example of like all these people took something that they love , like gaming and they made an incredible side hustle , out of it . Like some people they have full-time jobs out of it. And I only know this because of my husband, but like there are Twitch people that have like millions of dollars of contracts to play.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah isn't it insane?

Katie Utterback:

And like, that's, I mean, I could, what if that was Clay? and like the $5 it turns into, he's just like this . I don't even know what they call them.

Chase Peckham:

These YouTubers that I, that drive me crazy that my son likes to watch it because they do nothing, but put a video camera out in front of them. But that kid created a multimillion dollar business out of it. So does it aggravate me that my son watches it and thinks it's funny because I think it's probably ridiculous. But again, that gets , gets back to who am I? I, my dad thought that my star Wars figures were a little bit weird when I was a kid. Right. And then he would get angry when I bit the head off of him because that costs $7 or whatever. But at the time it was fun for me. So everything's relative. We have to sit back and look at it and train our minds to try to see things through other people's lenses. We'd probably be a much better society than we are today. Um, and we'd all make better financial decisions if we had the education and the idea of taking a step back and journaling , uh, because so much of what we do, how we act is emotional. How many times did I will spout off at my son or daughter? Because I, you know, or I'll be sharp with them because I'm not in a good mood. Is that fair? Not necessarily. So it's, if we all step back a little bit, make it flip the script. I love it, Katie . I, it was a brilliant blog. If you haven't seen it, you got to go to debtwave.org and check it out. Katie's work , uh, is unbelievably well-written and well thought out and has really great people that she interviews , uh, for these pieces. And , um, it's a great topic. And it's something that we should come back to.

Katie Utterback:

I was thinking too, speaking of flipping the script, what if you, every time you watched Twitch, now you think of it as like the new Wayne's World.

Chase Peckham:

Oh that's interesting.

Katie Utterback:

That's what I've been doing.

Chase Peckham:

That's right they were doing public access television from their basement

Katie Utterback:

Yeah and like there , do you remember at the beginning there? I think it's like, there's two people in bed and the guy's like, why do you watch this? And she's like, these it's funny. And it was just like, wasn't he

Chase Peckham:

Now you're taking me back. That's funny. That's interesting. I just heard a podcast with Mike Myers the other day, by the way, which was really, really funny. Rob, Lowe's got a really pretty good, if you want brainless, you just like to listen to like eighties old eighties, nineties movies, and listen. That is a brainless. Just chill and relax. Uh , that one in Smartlist is fantastic as well. If you just want to kind of tune out and just laugh. That's good stuff.

Felipe Arevalo:

I'm busy on my masterclass. That's going to get all my free time.

Chase Peckham:

Did you guys hear all that rumbling in the background?

Felipe Arevalo:

Not earlier. Just right now . Yeah, but not earlier.

Katie Utterback:

He's starting streaming now.

Chase Peckham:

I don't know what he's doing. All right . Well,

Katie Utterback:

You should have him on. we should do like a video game pod. You guys should maybe do like a video game podcast and like.

Chase Peckham:

You should get AJ on . We'll get Clay on and we'll discuss why, how, how it is that we decide to spend our money on which games and what kind of things do you like.

Felipe Arevalo:

I love video games.

Katie Utterback:

I'm trying to get AJ to stream. I think you would be so good at it. [inaudible] .