Talk Wealth to Me

#096 Am I the A..hole? The tweet that made us react!

July 30, 2021 Felipe Arevalo, Chase Peckham, Katie Utterback Season 4 Episode 18
Talk Wealth to Me
#096 Am I the A..hole? The tweet that made us react!
Show Notes Transcript

The Talk Wealth to Me crew breaks down this tweet that was originally posted on Reddit.  This scenario comes up all the time in personal finance. Where do you stand on this???

Am I (29M) the asshole for inviting my girlfriend (28F) to an expensive vacation and expecting her to pay her share. I make a lot more than her. Hello, my, and then here's the body of it.

Hello, my girlfriend, myself, my parents and my brother and his wife all went on vacation to another country a week ago. My brother and I were the only one were the ones who did most of the planning for the itinerary. Although we did ask for everyone's input for background, I make 150,000 as an IT consultant. My girlfriend is a teacher making about 45,000. My parents are very affluent as well as my brother.

And sister-in-law my girlfriend knew this trip was coming and took on a second job waitressing on the weekends for several months to get ready for it. We have always split things. 50/50 in the two years we've been together. There were a few times on vacations where she did not go on outings with us like wine tasting, scuba diving, et cetera. She also would only eat two meals a day. Simply stating that she was on a budget. My family does favor more. High-end expensive places. My parents thought it was very strange that she only eats two meals a day on those. She normally eats three. When we got home, I asked her why she skipped out on several of the outings and only ate two meals a day. I mentioned how I heard her stomach growling one night and said, I was concerned about her having an eating disorder.

Uh, she got teary-eyed and said that three meals a day wasn't financially feasible for her. And neither were the outings that she chose not to go on. She went on three of six outings. She said she was not expecting everything to cost so much. And she was overwhelmed. She also said she doesn't know if it's going to work out long-term if she's expected to go on vacations like that with people who make so much more than her, I feel bad. I did not pick up on her discomfort sooner, but we did agree to split everything 50/50. And I don't know why she agreed to come. If the cost was an issue.
https://twitter.com/AITA_reddit/status/1409476751307194368 

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Talk Wealth to Me, a safe space podcast, where we chat about anything and everything related to personal finance, the information contained in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes. Only. It does not constitute as accounting, legal tax or other professional advice.

Chase Peckham:

Phil and Katie. How are we this morning?

Felipe Arevalo:

Doing alright.

Chase Peckham:

Oh, right. Well, you know, I have always wondered why people would want to bring social media and comments to themselves and you guys showed me a tweet or sent us , sent us a tweet saying we need to cover this subject. And whoever would want somebody to fill in on whether they're an asshole or not. I can't imagine that I would want the world to fill in on that. But I guess that's a reality.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah. I guess it's a thing. And it's a new, I didn't know about it. And you know, after a SWYM live, Katie and I were talking one time and a couple of weeks ago and she mentioned, oh, so I saw this personal finance person share this story. And as soon as she started telling me the story, I was like, Ooh , I know what it is. I saw it yesterday. And it was, it was something else.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. Cause we've been, I spend a lot of time on social media. We share, you know, what is happening at DebtWave. What's happening at the San Diego Financial Literacy Center. And there's a ton of people in the personal finance space that are also on social media. And from time to time, people will share on Twitter, you know , uh , posts from the subreddit. Am I the asshole and Felipe And I just happened to see one related to personal finance and my God, is it a good conversation?

Chase Peckham:

When I read the tweet, I just kept reading. And I think my jaw just kept getting larger and larger. And first of all, for two reasons, one, there were so many things going through my mind as far as whether he's an asshole or not in this situation. And two is why would anybody want to bring that up for debate? And yet here we are. So apparently it is a big conversation piece. So why don't one of you read the tweet and we can go from there.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah. So it doesn't take long when you start reading the tweet to realize, yes, you are the asshole, but it's something where here it goes. It is. Um, am I the asshole for inviting my and this individual is 29 year old male inviting his girlfriend, 28 year old female to an expensive vacation and expecting her to pay her share. I make a lot more than her. Hello, my , and then here's the body of it. Hello, my girlfriend, myself, my parents and my brother and his wife all went on vacation to another country a week ago. My brother and I were the only one were the ones who did most of the planning for the itinerary. Although we did ask for everyone's input for background, I make 150,000 as an IT consultant. My girlfriend is a teacher making about 45,000. My parents are very affluent as well as my brother. And sister-in-law my girlfriend knew this trip was coming and took on a second job waitressing on the weekends for several months to get ready for it. We have always split things. 50/50 in the two years we've been together. There were a few times on vacations where she did not go on outings with us like wine tasting, scuba diving, et cetera. She also would only eat two meals a day. Simply stating that she was on a budget. My family does favor more. High-end expensive places. My parents thought it was very strange that she only eats two meals a day on those. She normally eats three. When we got home, I asked her why she skipped out on several of the outings and only ate two meals a day. I mentioned how I heard her stomach growling one night and said, I was concerned about her having an eating disorder. Uh, she got teary-eyed and said that three meals a day wasn't financially feasible for her. And neither were the outings that she chose not to go on. She went on three of six outings. She said she was not expecting everything to cost so much. And she was overwhelmed. She also said she doesn't know if it's going to work out long-term if she's expected to go on vacations like that with people who make so much more than her, I feel bad. I did not pick up on her discomfort sooner, but we did agree to split everything 50/50. And I don't know why she agreed to come. If the cost was an issue end quote ,

Chase Peckham:

There are so many things that I want to delve into with this. Um, so.

Felipe Arevalo:

Where do you start right?

Chase Peckham:

Like I mentioned before, so many things that are going through my mind. Yeah. Right. Where do we start with this? Because there's the professional side of it. There's the financial side of it, but there's just so much more to this banana peel that I want to and onion that I want to peel back. First of all, what are your thoughts? I mean, you said right off the beginning, Phil, you said, yes, he's an asshole right off the beginning,

Felipe Arevalo:

Yes right off the bat. I just read the title and I knew like, yeah, you are.

Chase Peckham:

I don't know if he's an asshole as much as he's just very disconnected. Just, I don't think he really gets, I don't think he gets it , uh , at all. And I , I don't, I wonder if he's really in love with this girlfriend or not .

Felipe Arevalo:

That was The other thing from a relationship standpoint, it's like, are , they may be thinking this relationship is going in different directions and that could be the disconnection where he's thinking just a regular old girlfriend. She might be thinking long-term I don't know. It was just something where I was like, Ooh , I got to share this with someone. And I only share an office with Sarah. So I told her about it. But it was, it was interesting.

Chase Peckham:

It is interesting. Well, all right. Let's, let's peel this back as we mentioned, and let's just kind of go one little peel at a time. All right . And let's just take it from the very beginning. Um, the relationship itself, what , at the , I believe he said that they'd been together two years.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah.

Chase Peckham:

Right. So this is not like, this is a brand new girlfriend thing. This is not like, Hey, I'm inviting this girl that I just started dating on this vacation. And, you know, I would expect in that situation, you know, we would split it 50 50 or whatever this is, this is a relationship that's been going on for a while . And I will tell you that's two years is longer than any relation I ever had before I got married. So, and I've had a lot of relationships and I still, I think I would react a little differently , uh, in just saying we've always agreed, agreed to pay 50/50 on everything we do. Um, I think you can read into this or at least say this is a little bit different than splitting the bill at happy hour. Wouldn't you think?

Katie Utterback:

I would think so. Especially since he's making, like what three times, which she's making. I don't know . I also have to wonder, you know, if you're in a relationship with someone for two years, you probably have like a regular schedule of when you see each other. And you know, there's been times when I personally have contemplated whether or not I wanted to get involved with a side hustle, just because debt makes me in particular very uncomfortable. So I like to get rid of it as soon as I can. Um, but I have to weigh that against, you know, time away from my husband and my family. So I can't imagine being in a relationship with someone and then we're going to go on vacation and suddenly I don't get to see them because they have to work weekends now.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah. You hit that square on the head and not to mention when he mentioned, if she felt uncomfortable at it and didn't she could afford it. Why would she want to, why would she go? And my question is, if you're in love with this person, and I know you like your family and your brother and his wife, but are you, you want to go on that vacation by yourself without the one that you supposedly are in love with.

Felipe Arevalo:

Right?

Chase Peckham:

That makes for a second of all. I'm glad that that made me think that, okay, well maybe this relationship isn't on very solid ground.

Katie Utterback:

And I think I just want to interject right here. I followed up on this sub Reddit and Reddit actually convinced the poster that he was not the asshole and Reddit actually convinced him to break up with his girlfriend because of her lack of financial knowledge and know how.

Chase Peckham:

Wow.

Felipe Arevalo:

Really?

Katie Utterback:

It was basically, they pointed the finger at her and was, if you were not going to be able to pay your way comfortably, if you were not going to be able to go and do all these outings and you shouldn't have gone in the first place, which is really not at all, how I would have expected that to unfold.

Felipe Arevalo:

I mean, good for her that she doesn't have to deal with that anymore, but still it's, you know, it it's something where he had to have known. He obviously knows how much money she makes. He obviously knows how much money he makes. He should have been able to see it and say, you know what? There's discrepancy there. I make more than three times what she makes. And I'm planning this lavish vacation. I do want you to go here, let me pay for some of it. You know, because like Chase said , the alternative is her saying, I can't go. And then he's going to be upset because she didn't go on the vacation.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah. And that's a personal thing for me. I , I can't imagine the person that I care for and we would work it out. Look, we'd say in this situation, okay. You know what? This is, I would, his awareness is way off, in my opinion, are you kidding me? You know what this costs and you know what she makes. And if you really love her and you want her to be there with you, I would, if it was my wife and I will get into the story that I have with a similar situation in a second, but I would absolutely 100% say, look, feel you let's figure out what you can afford for this vacation. Let's take it. And what can you afford without hurting your day to day monthly obligations, not put you into debt. And then let's see if I can cover the rest of it, because I'd really like you to come. I really think that you would enjoy this. I think it would be some great time together. I think it would be some great time with my family. And so again, that becomes for me, clear communication, lack of communication. Clearly they don't talk about this because just the fact that he knows what she makes and he knows what kind of vacation they're going to go on, because they obviously have done these kinds of vacations before. To me, that is extraordinarily shallow and not . And I don't even know I would, I want to use another word besides asshole, but I really believe that you love somebody. This is somebody that you like , you've been together for two years. You're obviously invested whether it works out long-term or not, you know? Okay. It's still that don't you think that that should be discussed? Don't you think that that would be, I'm not saying just because he makes 150 grand a year and she makes 45 that he should pay her way all the time. But in this case, if this, this, this kind of vacation, then if it were me, I would just say, Hey, I really want you to enjoy this with me. I can afford to help you with this. Let's figure this out. What can you afford? And then let's see if I can cover it. And if he realizes that he can't then, okay, maybe there's the discussion of whether she should go or not. But in this case, after the fact to say, if she didn't know she could afford her, if she didn't think she could afford it, she shouldn't have gone. That to me is ridiculous.

Katie Utterback:

I also can't help, but wonder just how much of his, like lack of communication regarding finances with his partner was a result of like his parents' influence on him and his relationship with money because you almost get this vibe. Like his parents were telling him that she's a gold Digger or something, and that's why nobody wanted to help her.

Chase Peckham:

That's okay.

Katie Utterback:

You know what I mean?

Chase Peckham:

Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. And I know that if I, cause when you were reading that, I'm thinking about my family, I'm thinking about my situation. And I know that if after the first day, if somebody didn't have lunch with us, okay. And then it was the second day , uh, because you know, you might go, all right , you know what? They weren't feeling good.

Felipe Arevalo:

Maybe they weren't hungry.

Chase Peckham:

We're in a foreign country, but I'd find out right. Is everything okay? And if I found out that, you know what, this was very difficult on her. I would say, look, I'll pay for your steak or. I'll. I'd love you to go jet skiing with us. Let me take care of that for you. And my family would have done that without thinking twice the mere fact that this just went over everybody's head and that the mom thought that this was very weird that she wasn't eating. And that, that was a character flaw or something on her end or had an eating disorder. To me, that's clear, lack of communication on their end too. And in my opinion, these are not very nice people to put it mildly.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. I like how you put that. It's like kindness way.

Chase Peckham:

It really was. I want to say so much more, but it's just, for me, it's just pure disregard for the situation. I think you're right. I think they knew. And I think that they might just think that this girl's not good enough for their kid or something like that. And they're feeding the beast a bit and they're making her feel, and this is not fair.

Felipe Arevalo:

It's not like she enjoyed it.

Chase Peckham:

But the mere fact that they didn't reach out at all, you gotta be kidding me. They've lived life long enough that they can't read a situation. They can't read that something's amiss and at least talk to their son about it. And second of all, how could he have not read the signs you've been with this person for two years.

Felipe Arevalo:

Right? And now all of a sudden they're skipping meals. You have to know that it's something is up and you know what they, you know, and the parents, if they know what she does for a living, they know she's a teacher. Um, you know, they, they know that they probably have an idea of maybe they don't know exactly how much she made until they read this, but they probably have some idea of general area. Like maybe she doesn't make as much. And , and it's something where like, it's, it's a big family vacation with a family outing. If he wanted , if he wants her to be part of that family, he needs to include, make it more inclusive for her so that she doesn't feel like she's being left out. And what happens if they do eventually continue their relationship to the point where they get married or something like that. Is that going to be something where as a married person, as a married couple, then be like, well, you stay home because you still don't make as much as I do.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo:

So you can't afford to go. You're part of the income doesn't afford you to go on vacations.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. I , I think I feel. Or even like a mortgage payment. I was thinking like in my personal situation, like my husband, he makes more money than I do. So even though we split things as best we can, 50/50, we keep making a clean 50/50 split does not make financial sense because I would be paying, you know, a paycheck and a half, you know, towards the mortgage. Whereas he's paying just a small little blip of one that wouldn't be fair to me because then I'd be left constantly, you know, like never having money to do what I wanted. And he would always be able to do that.

Chase Peckham:

Right. I everybody's everybody's relationship and situation is completely different and what works for people, worked for people. Um , but if you're going to make that conscious decision that you're splitting everything 50/50, then there needs to be clear communication on what you can both afford. And I don't care if one person makes $300,000 a year and the other makes 10, you know, you're a unit. So in my opinion, I mean, my wife makes more money than I do too , but we don't look at it. Like I said, we look at it as the household, as a business, right. And the business, our goal every month is to bring in a profit that means spend less money than we make in this situation. Right. But as a whole, when we make decisions, that doesn't mean she doesn't go do the things that she doesn't want to do. And that doesn't mean I don't go do things that we want that I want to do, but we discuss it and say, as the household, these are the things that for this household to run smoothly and for us to get everything we want out of life, there are going to be things that, you know, we, we plan for that. Do I think that doing my nails and a pedicure and do I think, you know, do I need to spend money on, you know, Kerri situation is so much different. That brings her pleasure, right. Um, getting her hair done and doing all those things that she wants to do. Who am I to say that that's ridiculous. To her golf is ridiculous. Right. But she knows that I get a lot of enjoyment out of it. She knows that I'm probably a better husband when I come home because I'm, I had a day of really having a great time out on the golf course. And it's something that just whatever, refuels my energy to come home and be a great husband and a father, then that works. And so when we make decisions on vacations or anything else like that, it's the total cost. It's not about whether she can afford it or I can afford it. And I will say that we've been married, just, we just got, we've been married 15 years last week, two weeks ago. Excuse me.

Felipe Arevalo:

Congrats.

Chase Peckham:

Thank you. Uh, but , but they had been together 18 years. And the funny thing is, is there's a similar thing that when Kerri and I were literally dating for about two months long distance, and she had had a vacation planned already , uh , to go to Hawaii with her mom and Kerri at the time was, you know, they were going to split it and her mom worked for United. So the flights were going to be, you know, whatever it was going to, it wasn't even to cost them anything. So it wasn't going to be so expensive. Well, her mom ended up not being able to go for some reason. And so Kerri was here now, like I've got, I don't want to go by myself. And she and I were in the midst of, you know, it's two months in we're long distance. And you know, you, everybody knows in that part of the relationship, especially you're on each other's minds, 24 hours a day. Right. And you especially long distance, you can't wait to see them. So in a phone call, she invited me to go and forgive me if Felipe, you've heard this story a billion times, but Katie and you might've only heard it a couple.

Katie Utterback:

I've never heard this story.

Felipe Arevalo:

You've never heard the Hawaii story?

Katie Utterback:

I'm on the edge of my seat .

Chase Peckham:

She invited me to go to Hawaii. And at the time I'm like, oh gosh, here we are. We're two months into our relationship. This is the first time that I'm thinking, okay, this needs to come up. I had to be honest with her and say, look, I'm paying back credit card debt that I had occurred in my, in my younger years, my early professional life. Um, and I still have about $16,000 in credit card debt. I've paid back a little over 10 and I just, I ca I can't afford to go. Um , as much as, I mean, it killed me. I mean , I like as much as I'd love to go. And not only that, it, for me, the uncomfortable part of it as well beyond just having to swallow my pride was that I , I might lose her because she's going to go, wait a minute. We're two months into this. You're now telling me that if we're to go on with a relationship, I'm coming into a relationship where that part of the relationship has debt. Do I want to get involved in that? And it got quiet on the other end. And, you know, she said, okay, well, I understand. Um, and you know, we talked about small talk and I remember like it was yesterday and we hung up and it was cause it was late, especially on the DC end. Um, her being three hours ahead of me and I got a phone call from her the next morning, it was, it was like she was at work and she, and I'm like, oh, hi. And she said, look, I'd like you to go with me and I'll pay for it. And I'll pay for everything. I'm like, you know, of course I'm seven years older than she is right at the time she's 24 or 23 or 24 years old. I'm 31. I should be in a much better place financially, but I wasn't. I made mistakes when I was younger. And even though I made more money at the time, I think we made similar money, but she was like I said, I married way up and we can get into that later. Um, I really, I really married over my skies in this case, but she didn't have debt. She didn't have any of that. She's type a personality. She just she's like, look, I, I can afford it. I would like you to go. And the more we talked about it and I, I agreed. And this is why she said the fact that you had told me that after us just dating long distance for two months, the fact that you came clean and talked to me about something that could be very uncomfortable, very personal, and that you could be that forthcoming with me, made me think that if you're going to be honest this early in the relationship about that, that you're something and someone that I can trust for the future for a long time. And it , I actually think a lot about it. And we went to Hawaii, I went with her and we had a phenomenal, phenomenal time. And there are so many things that were incredibly fortuitous. And you could look in the future on how our relationship was going to go after that. But the one thing I can always say about Kerri and I, as we've always communicated so incredibly well about everything, whether it's difficult or easy, whatever, it might be, health of family, whatever it might be. We have always communicated, feeling good, feeling bad, whatever it might be. And we never let those little things get in the way. And we realized that in our relationship, as much as it's , we are individuals and we've always stayed that way. We still are individuals. Right. But we also realize that we do everything as far as our finances together, because we are that one unit. And when we budget and we do all those things, we , we are the Peckham corporation, whatever you want to call it. And we treat it as such. So whoever's spending more. We don't even gauge that it's we? And that was like that even before we got married , um, just because we were in that relationship now, does that mean that that's crazy and that can somebody be burned? And, you know, I know that there's a lot of people that are married and their second relationships are second marriages that they decide to come into it. But maybe in that situation, there's two professionals coming into it. They both know that their financial backgrounds are secure, whatever it might be. Everybody's situation is uniquely different. I just know that Carrie was able to look beyond what, even before we had the conversation of whatever it was, 50/50 looking at the situation and making a decision based on that situation, not this is the way we always do it. And for me, for a person that's a personal, you know, personal financial coach that teaches people how to do this kind of stuff. The fact that you there's, the lack of communication in that situation is , is where I find that this situation is really screwed up. Not whether he makes 150 and she makes 45. It's the communication period. And for me, I don't know if that relationship was on very secure ground from the beginning.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah,

Katie Utterback:

I think you're right.

Felipe Arevalo:

I was going to say, I don't think I see her going on another vacation with him and his family.

Chase Peckham:

I just can't imagine how uncomfortable she felt.

Felipe Arevalo:

Right.

Chase Peckham:

The entire time. And the fact that she couldn't say something to him, or he couldn't read it and say, you know,

Felipe Arevalo:

He said I heard your stomach growl.

Chase Peckham:

Imagine I'm going jet skiing and oh, you don't want to go, okay, babe. And not ask why, why she doesn't want to go sit on the jet ski with me, just see you later. I find that abysmal, I can't even fathom that anybody would treat another person like that. but that's just me.

Felipe Arevalo:

Or the fact that he sat There, sat there and said, you know, I heard your stomach growling, but you skipped dinner like that math doesn't add up. You know, it's, it's just a lot wrong with that picture.

Chase Peckham:

I I really, yeah.

Katie Utterback:

But I think chase what you were saying though, about Kerri and how she took what you were saying, and, you know , you were honest, like, I, I can't, I don't want to incur more debt to go on this trip, even though I would love to go with you. She did the complete opposite of what these people did, which is, there's absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying a luxury trip.

Chase Peckham:

Right.

Katie Utterback:

Or having a lavish outing. But if you're with somebody who says, I can't afford this, you don't try to shame them or make them feel guilty for that. You just either take on that cost yourself, or you find something that you can both afford to do together.

Chase Peckham:

A hundred percent,

Felipe Arevalo:

Right.

Chase Peckham:

A hundred percent.

Felipe Arevalo:

And he planned the thing like him and his brother, but he planned the outings . So, you know,

Katie Utterback:

He mentioned his parents and I think this is where young couples, like when you're dating, you have to have very strong financial boundaries. And I'll just share from my own personal experience when AJ and I got engaged, his parents wanted to go on a family trip with his brother and sister so that we would all get a chance to connect and , uh, you know, get to know one another because we all live throughout the country. So there's not like a pocket where we get together regularly. And I had just started a new job. And so I didn't have any time off and I didn't want to go on this trip because I didn't want to, you know , lose any pay. And my mother-in-law to be actually offered to pay me for that time. I was going to miss work. But that to me just felt like too messy of a situation. I didn't want to be paid to be hanging out with my in-laws number one. And number two, my career is actually very important to me. Like I want to be financially independent, separate from my marriage so that I don't feel stuck in any sort of situation. And so that was a huge boundary for me that my in-laws didn't particularly understand, especially since my mother-in-law never worked. And so it was my husband backing me up at the time, my fiance backing me up and saying, this is how we're doing it. And I think, again, that's what was missing from this situation was, you know, the guy saying mom and dad, this is how we're doing it. I know you like these lavish outings, but she can't afford this. Is there, you know , an alternative or can we pay her way ?

Chase Peckham:

Right. Thousand percent.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah. It's something where I don't know. It there's a lot to it that it can get so much more complicated, but I think it would have been so easy if you just noticed it. And even if it was on the fly while they were out there, adjust his mentality to, you know, "I got you." Um, you know, because it doesn't have to, they've been doing everything 50/50, but this isn't like , like Chase messages, happy hour at the, you know, at the local college place, you know , this is much more larger expense, but he had to have known even before you know, that she was working extra, just to be able to go on the trip.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah.

Katie Utterback:

It just blows my mind that he wouldn't even be like, Hey, I'm going to buy you dinner at least one night.

Felipe Arevalo:

Right. Just a little chivalry.

Katie Utterback:

Hey, your stomach's growing. Do you want to go outside to a street vendor or something? Something,

Chase Peckham:

It just blows me away. And it's not like, you know, when Kerri and Kerri and I had been dating two months and if she would have run for the Hills, like by the way, many girls that I dated prior to her, did you know, they, I was honest. And if she would have , if Kerri would have bailed and got freaked out by that debt, then it wasn't meant to be. And I heard this just the other day. That was really unique, not unique, but it hit home for me was that if in, early on, when you're dating and you're trying to be something you think they want you to be, or you're trying to be something that you think that they might think is cool, or you're trying to impress them. If you're not being you, ultimately that relationship's not going to last because you have to be you. And if they don't love you for who you are and you don't love them for who they are, then you're set up for failure.

Felipe Arevalo:

Right.

Chase Peckham:

Because the long-term says that eventually you're going to end up wanting to do what you want. Be who you are .

Felipe Arevalo:

Right. And they're going to find out who you really are.

Chase Peckham:

Obviously. I mean, again, Mary you're way over my skies, but she was smart enough to know that the honesty part of it was well more important than the $16,000 in debt, which at that time is a ton of money. But in the long run is nothing right? It's it , that time it was a ton long-term wise 15 years later for us, you know, it was paid off before we got married. So from that end, it's not like their relationship was two months, six months, even a year. This is two years they've been together.

Felipe Arevalo:

That's a long time.

Chase Peckham:

So you telling me that they don't know each other's mannerisms and , and I mean, and she he's an in this case. Not that she is completely off the hook, right. She should have, there should have been communication on her part. Well, do we know how much that stuff's going to cost? Because this is what I can afford. And if that's the case, then maybe like Katie said earlier, maybe this isn't the best trip for us or for me to go on. Maybe this is just a trip that you need to go on with your parents and then put it on him. Is he, does he want to go on a vacation without the person he loves and just go with mommy and daddy and his brother, if so, then there's other, there's other, there's another talk they need to have, because I can't imagine, I can't even fathom going on a vacation with my parents without my girlfriend, just because she couldn't afford it. I just,

Felipe Arevalo:

Right it doesn't even register.

Chase Peckham:

I would not no.

Felipe Arevalo:

It would just be something that wouldn't happen. It would just be like, well, you can't go on this trip or pay for the darn trip. And it's something where, you know, obviously he can afford

Chase Peckham:

Well obviously I think is dangerous. Obviously it's dangerous. He may make 150 . She may make 45, but we don't know what their living expenses are individually. Right .

Felipe Arevalo:

He didn't have a problem paying for his part of it.

Chase Peckham:

No. But maybe he's maybe he's already, yes .

Felipe Arevalo:

Maybe he's pushing it right to the limit with his half.

Chase Peckham:

He could be , we don't know that.

Felipe Arevalo:

Then maybe it's not the right vacation for him ,

Chase Peckham:

A thousand percent, then he is not thinking about them as a relationship, he's thinking about himself as an individual and she is the girlfriend that might tag along to me again, that's another discussion that doesn't sound like a relationship that's going forward to me.

Felipe Arevalo:

Cause if he's pushing his finances to the very limit and it doesn't have any extra play on there, then that wasn't probably the right vacation for him. He might be reaching over his limits, whatever those limits happen to be. And then he should just plan a different vacation all together.

Chase Peckham:

And where is the brother and the wife in this, I can't imagine they probably know each other pretty well. Right.

Felipe Arevalo:

I would imagine in two years.

Chase Peckham:

If he's close to his brothers and in two years, I would imagine that those two have , have a sort relationship.

Felipe Arevalo:

There's got to be at least a group test message.

Chase Peckham:

You don't think that that couples going, wait a minute, you don't think there's discussions there. You don't think that there's conversation .

Katie Utterback:

Doesn't sound like it.

Chase Peckham:

Are you okay? That's right. So to me, there is something much more wrong with this situation than is just the fact that she couldn't afford this vacation. It sounds to me that there's like a whole other can of worms in this situation that has been festering for a while. And that this was, this is the culmination of a lot of things.

Felipe Arevalo:

Yeah. Because you're right. It should have been red flags. Like why should I be doing half the stuff with us? And why is she skipping out on meals, you know, from the brother? And sister-in-law, you know , they should have been like, Hey, is she okay? Is , um, did we do something. My first thought would be like, oh , did I get her angry?

Katie Utterback:

Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo:

I'm like, is she mad at me? Cause you know , maybe a little egocentric, but it's like, was it me who caused this? Um, but at some point it's like, something's up?

Chase Peckham:

Yes. Without question. I know again, I think this is a couple issue. This is, this is not, you know, is he the bigger asshole in this situation? Yes. Cause he didn't read it. Is she an asshole too ? For not literally having this conversation with him and beforehand, I mean, this is a cup. I think the couple has this issue. Um, I , I, this should never have gotten to this.

Felipe Arevalo:

I think she should, She should have stood her ground , but I don't know if I'd go as far as calling her an asshole because it could just be something where she really loves this guy.

Chase Peckham:

Oh yeah.

Felipe Arevalo:

And she's really trying to really trying to just impress him or not even impress him, but just trying to keep up and You know,

Chase Peckham:

You're right she probably doesn't , deserve asshole status. But at the same time, she is a bit to blame on this as well. The communication goes two ways. You know, he, he can't read everything, but she's, they've both got to be able to speak.

Felipe Arevalo:

I think it's easy for, I mean, I've done it where you overspend.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah we've all done it.

Felipe Arevalo:

To try and A impress someone or B, and keep up with someone and you know, it's something where it's like, it may not even have been a lack of communication, maybe splitting their regular, going out to eat at, you know , whatever regular restaurant, wherever they live, she can afford to do 50/50. And then all of a sudden there's like, there's bigger vacation, bigger ticket item. And I know in my younger years I would have stretched for it . I'm like, yeah. I mean, I would put on a credit card.

Chase Peckham:

For sure why do you think I was paying back so much debt .

Felipe Arevalo:

Exactly. I went on a lot of trips I couldn't afford. So it was something where, you know, I would have put her in a card and I wouldn't have, you know , skipped out on meals, but it's something where it's, you know, it's something where she, maybe she was doing it without even realizing it. And then, and then it was where she was in this relationship and it was working great. And all of a sudden, there's this one big hurdle.

Chase Peckham:

And she wants to fit in with his family. She wants to be part the family she wants. She's looking for them .

Felipe Arevalo:

Let me fit in just this once.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo:

Right.

Chase Peckham:

To accept her, those kinds of things. I mean, you have to , and that all plays into it. I

Katie Utterback:

Think women too, like we sometimes try to seem overly independent. Like I don't need your support. I'll just work weekends so that you do hopefully get accepted easier by the in-laws and you don't come across as a gold Digger or just there for the money or, you know what I mean? Because there's all these assumptions that are usually made when you're a woman too.

Chase Peckham:

Well, you made A great point though. And if I were in that relationship, the part of having a girlfriend or being in a relationship is seeing them and spending time with them. Um, and I would have, I would have right away ahead of time said, look, I appreciate the fact you're trying to pay for this, but I don't get to see you at all. And this is not fun. What can we do again? Sit down and let's see if we can afford to do this. And if I a hundred percent, if she looked back and said, you know what, no, I really want to do this. Okay. Well then that's again, that's communication. And that's what this comes down to. Clearly there's lack of this.

Felipe Arevalo:

But I think Katie's right. I think unfortunately the labels that sometimes get placed.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo:

It could have caused, added pressure to try and keep up and added pressure to like, well, I'm not going to know maybe to a fault where it's like, well, I'm not going to let you pay for this, but it doesn't sound like they offered to pay for it. And that was declined. It just offers like that offer was never made. Uh , which I think that's where the problem is. How do we offered And then she said, no, you know what? I can't afford it. I won't eat. I'm going to be hungry. Then that falls back on her a little. But, but the fact that he didn't offer, I think is the biggest thing where , where it puts the blame back on him , uh, you Know, or.

Chase Peckham:

I'd love to find out where they are now. I , hopefully

Felipe Arevalo:

I think Katie said, Reedit, convinced him to dump her,

Chase Peckham:

Yeah but did he?

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. Yeah. He broke up with her.

Chase Peckham:

Really because.

Katie Utterback:

He broke up with her by before the end of the day when this post came out because Reddit had convinced him that. Yeah, she was probably just there for the money and it was blowing my mind that the big thing in his mind was, yeah. When I get back home, I'm going to talk to her about her disordered, eating.

Chase Peckham:

This re enforced that the internet , these boards and stuff. There are just people that love to tear things apart.

Felipe Arevalo:

Oh, the comments on the tweet itself where

Chase Peckham:

I can't fathom that, why would anybody want to treat another? Why would you just assume this person's a gold Digger? They've been together two years?

Katie Utterback:

Well, I think a couple of things, number one is that Reddit tends to have a larger male following than other social media platforms.

Felipe Arevalo:

Okay.

Katie Utterback:

So you're getting a larger male response than you are a female response. I think also this to me shows just how the work that you guys especially are doing in terms of financial education, improving financial literacy is so important because all of these financial mistakes could be something that these people don't necessarily even recognize that they're doing.

Chase Peckham:

For sure .

Katie Utterback:

Um , you know, the other thing that popped into my mind is when we had , uh, Cameron Huddleston, I'm going to butcher her last name. It's not umansky.

Chase Peckham:

Emansky?

Katie Utterback:

Um , she was talking about, you know, like a lot of us are, especially the sandwich generation that we're all kind of falling in right now, where we have littles. And we also have aging parents. There's this balancing of, you know, I want to take care of mom and dad. I want to keep doing things with mom and dad. I want to keep them proud of me and go on these lavish vacations and keep up this lavish lifestyle. But at the same time, there comes a point when you have to say, mom and dad, I have to make these financial decisions that are right for me. I think that's kind of where this gentleman's education seems to end. He seems to be catering financially, like toward his parents more so than he is his own life.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah. My parents never would have let that happen. They would have read it so quickly Reddit.

Katie Utterback:

That's good.

Chase Peckham:

I didn't mean to use that. But yeah, they , they would have seen that this girl wasn't there and they would have found out and they would have been like, you gotta be kidding. And then they would have been all over.

Felipe Arevalo:

Oh all over me I would have been in trouble.

Chase Peckham:

Did you guys not discuss this? Did you not have this conversation? What are you doing? And first of all, you're a jack ass for not picking up the bill and whether you guys didn't communicate or not, and whether this relationship's going forward afterwards, that's between you guys. But in this situation right now, this is extraordinarily uncomfortable for me because I don't want somebody to be on this vacation with me who is not enjoying themselves.

Felipe Arevalo:

How would you react if you were the parents?

Chase Peckham:

For sure.

Felipe Arevalo:

I'd lean into my kid and be like, you've got to figure this out. This is not okay,

Chase Peckham:

Yes.

Felipe Arevalo:

You know ,

Chase Peckham:

You want me to embarrass you and tell you that I'll we'll pay for her. We will,

Felipe Arevalo:

Right exactly.

Chase Peckham:

I would.

Felipe Arevalo:

Right.

Chase Peckham:

But I'd be livid with my kid. I'd be like, dude, did I not bring you up? Right.

Felipe Arevalo:

You didn't figure something out .

Chase Peckham:

I brought you up to be an individual, but this is cold-hearted to me.

Felipe Arevalo:

I agree.

Chase Peckham:

In this situation. And if you guys decide to go 50 50 for the rest of your life, then as Katie said before, you better make you better figure out what vacations fit both of your lifestyles, because what are you gonna do? You're gonna go on separate vacations for the rest of your lives. If that works for you, more power to you for me. No fricking way.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah. I was gonna say, I think the three of us are in relationships that are kind of similar in that we all enjoy hanging out with our spouses.

Felipe Arevalo:

Right.

Katie Utterback:

Like the idea of us living separate lives is not maybe something any of us would do, but if.

Chase Peckham:

I've done a boys' Trip here and there, Kerri's done girls' trips here and there and we , and that's good for a relationship. You need other friends. You can't just all about the two of you.

Katie Utterback:

Yeah you've got to have your own thing.

Chase Peckham:

Yes for it to last long-term for sure. Uh, so look, the fact that he they broke up, obviously tells many, many stories here, but I think for the, just the way I see it and I might be wrong, but I'm also way more into relationship then than they are. Um, I , I have a firm red stamp of asshole.

Felipe Arevalo:

I agree. I mean, I made up my mind biasedly as I started reading it.

Chase Peckham:

I had an open mind, but the more we talked about this, the more pissed I've gotten double stamp asshole.

Katie Utterback:

I want to see, I hope this guy comes back in a couple of years.

Felipe Arevalo:

I'd love to interview him.

Katie Utterback:

And posts an update. Oh, I would too.

Chase Peckham:

I'd love to talk to him.

Katie Utterback:

I would like to know, like, you know, in a couple of years, are you going to look back and be like, gosh, I wonder if I would have paid, you know, for a meal for this person that I loved, if we would still be together.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah. Someday I was going to see on social media that she's engaged and happy and smiling and he's going to be alone by himself. And he's going to be like, what if.

Katie Utterback:

I think this girl dodged a bullet.

Felipe Arevalo:

I agree.

Chase Peckham:

I think probably. Without knowing, you know, that's unfair a little bit without knowing both sides completely, but I'd love to, I wish we could talk to them individually, but you get probably two completely different stories, but oh, well such is life,

Katie Utterback:

We all rubber stamp this guy and asshole and he's the one who even posted to the story. His own version of the story,

Chase Peckham:

His own version of the story. Well, we're coming up on our 100.

Felipe Arevalo:

It's coming up.

Chase Peckham:

Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo:

I think we have a few more still, but it's coming up. so stay tuned. We should, it should be a fun episode.

Chase Peckham:

It will be a fun episode. We're getting close. Well again, rubber stamp asshole. Love you guys. We'll talk to you soon.

Felipe Arevalo:

later.