There are a handful of television shows that have the ability to bring us all together to laugh and cry, celebrate love, and friendship, and just life in general. During the nine seasons that The Office aired, we were given some of the most hilarious characters and iconic moments, like the time Dunder Mifflin paper company’s fearless leader Michael Scott organized a choreographed routine down the aisle at his employees’ wedding or when Pam and Jim finally get together. These are real people in very outlandish yet familiar situations.
This week the Talk Wealth To Me crew discuss the very real money and financial situations these characters find themselves in.
There are a handful of television shows that have the ability to bring us all together to laugh and cry, celebrate love, and friendship, and just life in general. During the nine seasons that The Office aired, we were given some of the most hilarious characters and iconic moments, like the time Dunder Mifflin paper company’s fearless leader Michael Scott organized a choreographed routine down the aisle at his employees’ wedding or when Pam and Jim finally get together. These are real people in very outlandish yet familiar situations.
This week the Talk Wealth To Me crew discuss the very real money and financial situations these characters find themselves in.
Welcome to Talk Wealth To Me, a safe space podcast, where we chat about anything and everything related to personal finance. The information contained in this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It does not constitute as accounting, legal tax or other professional advice.
Chase Peckham:It's so interesting that when your blog came out about this subject that I had started listening to the, um, I believe his name. He played Kevin in the show. It's a Ron Bumgarner, I think. Or.
Katie Utterback:Is it Brian?
Chase Peckham:Brian Bumgarner. Yes. Thank you. And yeah, you think I'd know that by now, but I actually have a friend named Ron Bumgarner, so that worked at the Padres, but anyway, that's a whole different story, but yeah, I always, I want to, every time I see Bumgarner, that's what I want to say. So Brian McGovern Baumgardner yet, and it is such an interesting it's it's that podcast I listened to and I don't want to, I just want to listen to something that's just entertaining and kind of brings me a smile because that show, I loved it so much. Um, The Office was so different than anything else we'd ever seen before. In fact, the first I remember the first couple of episodes I watched was I was like, what am I watching? Like this people are talking to the camera, they're looking at the camera. It was that they're saying things that are just outlandish, even for the time it was cringe-worthy television. And I was like, oh my gosh, this makes me very uncomfortable. And I didn't really like it at first. And then people kept talking about it and I went back to it and then it's, you know, it's, it's up there with friends. And I think I even like it more for different reasons, just a completely different show, but I thought it was so, I mean, it really epitomised real life.
Katie Utterback:Yeah. I, I think one of the most iconic scenes or like soundbites from The Office is when Michael Scott is declaring bankruptcy and he just comes out and he's like, I declare bankruptcy in a very like declarative tone. And that to me was hilarious. And that's kind of what sucked me into the show because I've always liked comedy. And there was one comedian who had said that she had suggested at like a community get together that they have a play the game of whack-a-mole where you hit the thing that pops up.
Chase Peckham:Yeah.
Katie Utterback:And someone thought that she had mispronounced guacamole and actually was like, oh no, it's pronounced guacamole, not whack-a-mole. And so the community was sharing. Like, she's like, I'm not even offended that this woman didn't understand me. I'm just, you know, sitting here thinking like she thought that I had been, you know, going to Chipotle and ordering it whack-a-mole and nobody had ever taken the time to stop and tell me, it's like, it's actually pronounced guacamole. And so I kind of felt that with this Michael Scott declaration, he was under the perception that to declare bankruptcy, you just had to use a declarative tone. You didn't have.
Chase Peckham:To literally declare it.
Katie Utterback:Actually. Yeah. And so that is kind of, you know, the vibe that I've always had from the office is just very silly, but sometimes people's perception of something is silly
Felipe Arevalo:And they always touched on topics that sometimes were real in-depth topics. And then they did it in their way of storytelling, which was just doing it all wrong, basically for the most part. Um, and then kind of showing you what that satire like, this is the topic we're going to cover. Don't do what all these people are doing because they usually got it wrong. Uh, although at the same time, it's just so entertaining and so hard to stop watching.
Chase Peckham:Yeah. And welcome back, Katie. It was, I mean, the blog that you wrote regarding this very topic, I mean, I was laughing so hard that I couldn't believe that I'm like, this is personal finance. She figured out a way like you did with the Friends went now, how are you going to take personal finance from these characters? And the more I thought about it, the more I went, oh my God, do you know? But it makes sense because the very fact is all these characters and the fact that we didn't really know any of them, when the show started, Steve Carell was probably the most well known, but he was, he was a guy that the I don't believe that the movie, um, what was the movie that had come out that he did? Oh, w he was in Bruce almighty.
Katie Utterback:Oh yeah.
Chase Peckham:Uh, he had a small part in Bruce almighty when that came out. Um, and he was in the daily show before the daily show really became a thing on comedy central. And it was the 40 year old Virgin that everybody really got to know him. And then right after that, he played the, the, the sports caster on, um, uh, Ron burgundy.
Felipe Arevalo:Anchorman?
Chase Peckham:Yeah. Anchorman, there you go. And so it was just everyday people. It was, it was a paper business, right? It's, it's an office with very ordinary people. There was accountants and salespeople and, uh, the, the receptionist behind the desk. Right. And so it was these that, that was the brilliant thing that when the original Office in the, in, in England came out, the Ricky Gervais, uh, and his partner, and I'm going to forget his name. I apologize. But, um, when they came up with that, with the English version, it was so dry, obviously, cause English humor is like that, but that was the point was it was making fun originally of the shows that were popular in England at the time, but then really became popular here was, um, people being famous for nothing. They, it was reality TV. And so it was taking, how can we do a scripted show about a re doing a, uh, documentary on ordinary people in a paper office for a paper business. And it was just way, way, way ahead of its time. And these were regular people in acting outrageous, but all of these outrageous, this is based on real experiences with a lot of these, the writers, right there is we've all worked in an office. We've all been there where it's where people would. There's always that guy, that would be the person that talks all the time. That could be, uh, making fun of other people. Not that he meant to, but he's the jokester, right? And then there's the guy that says things or the person that says things that makes you feel uncomfortable. There's the person that's ultra religious and brings up religion in everything they talk about. You know? So there's all these different personalities, the dichotomies in an office that really comes out. If you think about it, even though the show is outrageous, what makes it really funny is we've all had experiences that are similar to what these people have done. Now. None of us have had a boss. I don't think like Michael Scott, but I think we can all relate to the other characters at some point, or at least knowing them. Uh, and that situation.
Katie Utterback:Yeah. No, I think that's perfect because you're right. We've all worked with people that remind us of the characters that we're seeing in the office. And then we also see ourselves in the office too. Like I think every single one of us has felt like Jim looking into the camera. Like, I don't know, like, I don't know what's happening either. Like, it is what it is
Felipe Arevalo:Every once in a while you just kind of want to have a camera there. So you could look at it and say like, what in the world?
Chase Peckham:Right. Well, that's what was really brilliant about the show as it went on, because at first it was, you know, we're, we're, we're seeing that there is this documentary being made about this office. So there are people that don't want to be in front of the camera. Right. And then, because they just it's like, stay away from me. What the heck did I sign off on this for? And then there's the people like Michael Scott who want to be famous. They want to play up and make this personality that they're really, you know, that, that wasn't really his quote unquote personality. He was acting up to the camera. It was acting a guy acting like he was acting up to the camera, which was, and only Steve Carell could make that so brilliantly. But it's funny because when I first read this, it made me think of the third episode when he feels guilty about the fact that they have to cut the health care and his boss comes in and says, Michael, your job is to, you've got to cut down the healthcare. We've got to have cutbacks. So I need you to pick a plan, uh, for your office. And he just he's like, oh, I, I don't, I don't like that. I don't want to be the bad guy. That's not fun. And she's like, no, it's not fun. I mean, that's part of being a manager, right? And there are decisions you have to make. And through all of that, that's a very real life thing. That's something that all of us in our office atmospheres in our different jobs have experienced the fact that something that we have taken for granted or had in our office could get cut. And in this case it was healthcare benefits. And so that's a real life financial situation. And then he doubles down by saying, I'm going to, you know, cause he feels bad about the whole thing. He's going to go give him a treat. And he tries to get, he's been in a travel office and he's trying to get these free flights and free, uh, all inclusive resorts. And then he ends up with, what was it? I think it was candy, um, or, or crackers or treats or something like that because financially there's no way he can do this grandiose thing that he wants to do. And now he's back to getting everybody, these little treats that everybody goes, that's not our surprise, is it? He's like, no. So he just keeps getting himself deeper and deeper. He wants to be the good guy, right? He wants to be the good guy. I make more money. I make the money, but yet he's not making a ton of money. Uh
Felipe Arevalo:Well it's like Katie mentioned in the, in the blog, the one where he promises the little kids pay for their college, the Michael Scott's tots.
Katie Utterback:Scott's Tots.
Felipe Arevalo:And it's like, then they go to college, then they're ready to go to college. And they realize it's like, how much is this going to cost me? And, and then he finds himself in that situation where he's made this promise years ago, the kids fulfilled their end of the bargain. And now they're looking for him to fulfill his end of the bargain. And he's sitting there like, oops.
Katie Utterback:And it's, it's a crazy example, but it's a great example of financial, like enabling those financial enablers who are like, yeah, go for it, do it. I'll I'll make it work. And then they can't
Chase Peckham:Right, right. A hundred percent that we, oh my gosh, you will see that all the time with parents and kids, you see that in so many different situations where the parents will be just like, oh yeah, you, you go ahead and you get that stuff because they want to give their kids everything that they didn't have when they were kids, even though they can't afford it. So that you see that in so many different aspects of money decisions where you'll just shout out. Yep. Do it without even thinking about whether you even know how much that situation costs. And obviously he had no idea what college costs.
Katie Utterback:It was so interesting too, about the Scott's tots example too, is not even just that example, but on the show, like when Michael gets himself, himself into these financial situations, it's usually the rest of the cast, the rest of the characters that are also responding to it. And you get to see all of their different money personalities, how they're responding to whatever financially happened, come out. Cause some of them, when they heard about the promise, like this pledge, like he's going to pay for an entire class of seniors to go to college. They just knew right off the bat, like that was irresponsible. Like you were never going to be able to do that. And then others of them were probably thinking like, wow, that was so inspirational. Like you almost made it
Chase Peckham:Right. And so many of those things come up financially related things come up in, in that show and you brought them up so beautifully in your blog that you have on debtwave.org, uh, that are, I believe it was called. What are your favorite office characters say about your relationship with money? Cause we can all run into relate to that. And it was always Stanley to me for whatever reason. I think it was the kids come to work day and, and they got to bring them in. And he, I remember, I don't know why this stands out to me, but he looks over at his kids and says, you see what I have to put up with every day? And Michael Scott doing one of his antics, but that kind of brings you back to real life of going. I go to work every day in these jobs because I have to provide for this A, B and C at home. Uh, and that,
Felipe Arevalo:But Stanley was also the type of character that he, he didn't want to be able to happy at work. Um, he, he was the person who was like constantly,
Chase Peckham:He was lazy as heck.
Felipe Arevalo:Checking the clock constantly waiting to be the first one out the door type of thing. Um,
Chase Peckham:I always wondered if his numbers were as good as his Jim's and Dwight's,
Felipe Arevalo:Somehow it seems like his numbers are never really an issue. He just got enough work then to just kind of chug along. Um, but he was always like complaining about something or.
Chase Peckham:Yeah he was that guy.
Felipe Arevalo:Yeah. And it was definitely funny to see, I really liked what they did with the show when they would sit them down for an interview in a little office with a window in the background. Uh, because then we got to see more of their personality. Cause they were like complaining to. Like you would be complaining to the, the camera crew and he would be complaining about Michael Scott or work or money or whatever it was. But that's when we got to see them like kind of just open up to the camera in this case, us, the audience, uh, in a very interesting way.
Chase Peckham:And you could see them all working behind them, typically with the with the window shade open, and you could see people doing their work or doing whatever funny thing that goes on in an office. That's, what's interesting about that show too, is that was a show that was a true ensemble in the fact that everybody was almost always in a shot of some kind, they all had to shoot together because they're in an office atmosphere. They're all out in that floor. In fact, I found out from the deep dive with Brian Bumgarner is that they called that the bullpen, that, that was, that was the main area of the office that they would always film in. And so there would be people they would shoot all day and those guys, the accountants in the background, so it was what Kevin and Angela.
Felipe Arevalo:Sit there and play solitaire.
Chase Peckham:Seriously. And they would do, they started in those days. It was, I believe, um, it was a MySpace was like the big thing before Facebook. Right. And they would start the accountant's MySpace page and they would literally be talking with people while they were shooting and looking like they were working,
Felipe Arevalo:They had to look busy. Right,
Chase Peckham:It's so interesting. Kevin was one of my, you know, and I, I probably like him a lot more now because I listened to, you know, he's the host of that show, but, and he's so different than that character, but here's this accountant who loves to eat, spends money on food, like crazy gambles, like crazy and drinks, like crazy in your one. And so they're all the whole time. He's this accountant that's supposed to be very good with money. And yet on the side, he's not great with money. He can do the numbers
Felipe Arevalo:Out of the accountants trio that they had back there. He was like the unreliable accountant. He was like that person in the group project where you're like, do I even want him to do any of the work? Cause we're going to have to recheck it and fix everything.
Chase Peckham:Angela and Oscar.
Felipe Arevalo:Yeah.
Chase Peckham:Yeah. Oh, that's brilliant.
Felipe Arevalo:So it was like, you remember in college, those group projects, we were like, this guy, I got stuck with this guy. And then you had, you knew you had to go back and check the work. So then you're sitting there, like, we just tell him, I got you. I'll do it. And then I don't have to go back and fix it. And that's, I think he was that accountant in the, it was eventually why he got fired. Right?
Katie Utterback:Yeah. He invented his own number Kleven
Chase Peckham:And he ended up owning a bar at the end.
Felipe Arevalo:Right. So he must've been doing okay with his money or he,
Chase Peckham:So there's rumors that, that, that, cause everybody was always wondering how he afforded to buy this bar. And it was whether he won it in gambling or whatever. But then there was the thought that he always spent so much time at that bar that he became like the norm character in that bar and all of them, all the character, all those people loved him so much and felt bad for him that they gave him a bunch of money to save this bar and he ended up buying it. So those people could still Patrion that bar, that
Felipe Arevalo:Same establishment.
Chase Peckham:that was never In the storyline. But that's some of the, you know, those chat boards that people come up with crazy stuff.
Katie Utterback:I mean, that sounds reasonable. Cause at Jim and Pam's wedding, he lost his one and only pair of shoes
Felipe Arevalo:One pair of shoes had to use like a Kleenex box or something.
Chase Peckham:One of my favorite characters, I don't know about you guys, but at the time Mindy Kailing was, nobody knew who Mindy Kailing wasn't. She was a writer and she and BJ Novak were, that was the brilliant part of that show too, is they integrated the writers as actors. So they literally would be sitting in that thing and they would come up with new stories as they're sitting there pretending to work and doing the, which is phenomenal and all the people that have really taken off. But Mindy Kailing's character Kelly, she was not shy about the fact that she wanted a boyfriend that could just pay for her life. And that's all money personality into itself.
Katie Utterback:Yeah. You have to applaud her openness to, to just be like, yep, Ryan, you and me, because there's been moments where she looks into the camera and she's like, I'm pregnant buddy. And I'm keeping it. And like, then she looks to the camera in the interview and she's like, okay, no, I'm not pregnant. And so, you know that, she's just trying to like, hold on to that relationship and get that ring.
Chase Peckham:Can you imagine if somebody did that nowadays and how quickly somebody would be fired just for saying something like that for making somebody feel so uncomfortable?
Felipe Arevalo:Oh, I think people would get fired like every episode on that show, but it's especially true with, yeah. You couldn't say something like that, but, and then you had Ryan who she was pursuing, who was kinda like this. Um, she was pursuing him, but he was more of just like whatever, you know, blahzay about everything, not just the relationship, but then he had like all these get rich, quick schemes that didn't always pan out.
Chase Peckham:He was the get rich guy. And he was very confident in itself. Almost cocky. Like all you people in this office are beneath me.
Felipe Arevalo:Right. And, but like very able to motivate people to like, oh, like good talker. Who's like, oh yeah, he's totally going places. Or, or whatever it is. And then all his ideas, all his,
Chase Peckham:And imagine that he spend every cent, he had trying to get rich and lost all of it. So it would make no sense. But yet he gave off the impression that he did well. And so that's why Kelly, you would think ended up falling for him because he was, you know, he was so confident that she fell in love with her, liked that confidence and felt like, oh, this guy is gonna, he's a provider.
Felipe Arevalo:He's gonna make it.
Chase Peckham:He's gonna make it
Felipe Arevalo:All right. It wasn't until like the last episode where they, it, they seem to run off together. They should do like a reunion. I think that would be cool.
Chase Peckham:There's words. There's word that there's a possibility, but
Felipe Arevalo:I know but most of those never happened,
Katie Utterback:But Ryan is a good example though, of someone who like he earns more money and he doesn't stick to any sort of budget. So he keeps blowing everything he earns, right. He's like the guy that wins the lottery and he can't keep it.
Chase Peckham:Right. This is the antithesis of Angela right who is truly an accountant, both in her and in her professional life and her, her personal life. And it seems like she was very budgeted in everything she did. Not even just her money, but everything she did
Felipe Arevalo:Minus the cats.
Chase Peckham:Right. Well, that's true. And she did, she did have a party for her cats. Did you know? That was all made up just as a joke. Like literally that was, uh, in the first episode that directors told her that she was supposed to just hand out paper to look busy. And she came up with this idea that she was handing out flyers for a party for her cat. She came up with that, like on the fly and it just stuck. And so the joke was, that's how Pam and Jim were talking about it. Like, they're just supposed to, they're doing B roll. And so they're just having conversations. It's not, it's about nothing. It's like office banter and she came up, can you, are you going to go to the Angela's party about the cats that was not scripted? That was just out of the blue. It's just some of the stuff that they let go. It was so funny. I can't even,
Katie Utterback:And it was what was so good about the show too. And money personalities is that they were able to show the like, not so great at money, money, personalities, but they were also able to show what it looks like when you're really good at handling your money too. Like Dwight, as annoying as he should be as a character, he actually managed his money really well. And he had multiple income streams
Felipe Arevalo:Who would have thought that at the end of the show, money, personality wise, you're really aiming towards a Dwight.
Katie Utterback:I know. Right? Like that's the goal you want Dwight.
Felipe Arevalo:Exactly.
Chase Peckham:It was Fire way before fire was fire. Don't you think? And I think you said that in your yeah, you did.
Felipe Arevalo:Except I don't think he was retiring.
Chase Peckham:No, I don't think he did it for that reason, but I think his personality was like that. Whether he knew he was, you know, financial independence retire early, you know, whether he was thinking that way or not. I don't think so. I think he, that was just his very awkward personality.
Katie Utterback:Yeah. At a minimum, he was thinking about generational wealth,
Felipe Arevalo:Right.
Chase Peckham:Yeah. He was an interesting character. How could I, how can I take care of me?
Katie Utterback:Right. Even when Jim and Pam came to his house to stay at his little bed and breakfast, like you have to give him credit because he was able to slip into host mode, even though he was completely annoyed that his coworkers were there, but it shows just how, if you have a side hustle, it can make a really big difference. And it doesn't mean that you have to give up what you're doing. You can still keep your job. It just might be a little extra padding or might be an interest that you have. Yeah.
Chase Peckham:Yeah. And all those things that he grew up doing that he kept doing his entire life.
Felipe Arevalo:Yeah. Like the farming and all that, that goes along with it. Yeah.
Chase Peckham:Schrute farms, nobody for the longest time knew what the heck that was. Or if it, or if it was even real,
Katie Utterback:When he was in charge, remember he passed out Schrute bucks. So it was like, if you did it, if you, if you were good, you got a Schrute book.
Felipe Arevalo:Like they do in school for the little kids.
Katie Utterback:Yeah and then it was like, after so many Schrute bucks, you could cash it in and you should get like five minutes extra at lunch. It was just like absurd. But it was very like, you know, budgeted. Yeah.
Felipe Arevalo:I mean, that's how they motivate my, uh, Barrington. In third grade, he makes something bucks. I forgot what that's called. And then he collects them and he's like saving them for big prizes or something. He's like, some kids spend them all the time. I want the big prizes. I want to have lunch with the principal. I'm like, I don't know how that qualifies as a big prize, but it's very noble buddy keep saving
Katie Utterback:Is very noble.
Felipe Arevalo:Yeah. I was like, I would have never picked that as a kid. I would've gone with the ice cream every Friday or whatever, whatever I can spend it on very quick. What if I lose them?
Chase Peckham:Who would you guys say that you most identify with? And that could be money, personality, or just personality in general, but, or both. Maybe there's two different characters that you identify
Katie Utterback:I think I'm a hybrid of Kelly and Pam.
Chase Peckham:Ooh, that's interesting. Cause Pam, you watch those first episodes. She's so quiet and sheepish and doesn't know if she's, she's kind of uncomfortable.
Katie Utterback:She also had like this idea to go to art school.
Chase Peckham:Yeah.
Katie Utterback:And she didn't think that it was going to pay off. Right. She didn't really know how to invest in herself or in what she was interested in. She kept thinking she had to make money first for her marriage and family that she, that she's gonna have with Roy. And then that moved to Jim. But then Kelly, like I've, I've admitted on this podcast. And I thought I got married. I thought I was gonna just turn over all of my financial worries and everything over into my husband. And that did not happen. But I don't think that I would have been as chill as Pam, if my husband had just bought a house.
Felipe Arevalo:Oh yeah that would not have been OK.
Katie Utterback:So in that sense, I don't know what I, I don't know. And actually I'm going to also, I'm going to throw myself I'm a little bit, Michael Scott. I don't know everything about personal finance and I know how to, I actually don't really fully know how to declare bankruptcy. I know you have to do more than just speak it, but I can see myself being somebody to over promise or over, you know, stress over, uh, I'm spending way more, I guess, than I can actually promising way too much.
Felipe Arevalo:I feel like I try trying to evolve from a Michael Scott to a more Angela based or I can actually keep, because in college I was very much, yeah, let's do it. You guys want to go where? Let's go!
Chase Peckham:Oh that was me.
Felipe Arevalo:I just want to go and I just went for it. I mean, I was season tickets at the Padres and I was broke college kid.
Chase Peckham:I was allergic to the word. No,
Felipe Arevalo:Exactly. I couldn't say no. I was never going all my friends. No, I'm not going to go eat because I don't have money. I just put it on a credit card and you want to do season tickets at the Padres. I'm broke, but I got a credit card and I know I have a loan coming in soon. So it was just go, go, go. And that's what got me into credit card debt.
Chase Peckham:Under FOMO.
Felipe Arevalo:And then I slowly had to start to teach myself to be more organized, to make sure I track things, to make sure I, you know, like, okay, I can't just go do everything. You know, it's restaurant week. I can't just go out to eat every night because it's restaurant week.
Chase Peckham:That's right.
Felipe Arevalo:I would have have done in my college years. Uh, I feel like it's, it's that trying not to always try not to revert back to that. Cause I think by nature I'm more of a yes. Let's go eat. Yes. Let's go do this.
Chase Peckham:Yeah, definitely. The Michael Scott of every anything's possible at any time.
Felipe Arevalo:right.
Chase Peckham:There's no doubt. I mean, when it came in and he, I think he had the worst case of FOMO before FOMO was FOMO. Um, and I was that way too. I mean, in the urban dictionary, there's a picture of me next to FOMO because I literally, I just, I had this thing where I did not want to miss anything that was possibly going to be fun. And.
Felipe Arevalo:Well you didn't want to hear about it later and say like, oh, I could have been there.
Chase Peckham:And I used it as like, oh, I need to go out there with these guys because it's going to be good for my career, you know, will be, I need, you know, there was always an excuse. Uh, you know, and then at the same time there was like Jim, who was in the same job for a long time because it was comfortable and you're afraid to take chances. And you know, I, it took me a lot of years to leave the Padres because I was afraid of doing something else. And so, I mean, I, I kind of went with that too. And I, and he enjoyed himself whether he believed it or not, but you always felt like you were capable of more and you'd run the course. You, you, you ran this course as much as you could. I loved my years at the Padres, but it ran its course, but I was afraid to take a leap because I just, it was comfortable.
Felipe Arevalo:I was here for like a non-money perspective. Um, it was always, it was a Jim. Cause you ended up dating your coworker who would ever date their co-worker? I's such a bad idea.
Chase Peckham:Completely forgot about that.
Katie Utterback:Not even just date marry.
Felipe Arevalo:Recipe for disaster
Chase Peckham:And then be married to an office where
Felipe Arevalo:And then you marry the office worker, I don't know who would ever do that.
Chase Peckham:Yeah you are Jim in that regard.
Felipe Arevalo:I would have definitely advised against it while watching the office originally all those years ago.
Chase Peckham:Was Sarah Pam in this case? No.
Felipe Arevalo:Uh, yeah. Well from a non-money standpoint. Yeah, I think so.
Chase Peckham:Interesting.
Felipe Arevalo:Yeah.
Katie Utterback:Yeah. And it's funny is actually I just realized when you start off dating in an office, you're both Jim and Ryan like Kelly and Pam at the same time. And then depending on how it goes, you become, You know, you guys ended up at the Jim and Pam rout.
Felipe Arevalo:Exactly. You're kind of, they had other, well, they had dating in the office a couple other times. They had, uh, Angela and Dwight. Um, and it was, and there's just like very secretive where, uh, Jim and Pam's was very open. Everybody kind of knew it was happening. Um, so from that standpoint it was like, oh, they have all kinds of office romance going on. Um, so it was very, uh, from the non financial personality perspective, I ended up seeing very much as a Jim. Um, but I would normally have advised against dating a coworker because it worked out for me cause I ended up getting married, but if it doesn't work out and you end up having that break that a breakup and what if it's a bad breakup that could have career and financial implications.
Chase Peckham:Oh yeah.
Felipe Arevalo:Where you, you know, it just may like that's where you work. That's where you're at all the time. If you date a coworker and that doesn't end up good and ends up messy, I'm sure people have breakups. And then they carry on being able to say hi and whatnot, but sometimes mess ups are messy or breakups are messy that can have big financial and career implications for one or both of the individuals who are part of it. That's a, that's the w the part of the office that I never saw myself as I was watching it originally never really saw myself being part of like, oh, I never gonna dated coworker. Um, that was just so messy. And then it was just like, oh, oops.
Chase Peckham:Experience is everything too. Right? So all those years, if working in an office atmosphere or whatever, you kind of learn sometimes just how to act, um, and the way, you know, to get by because in an office atmosphere, all those different kinds of personalities and backgrounds coming together in one place to do a job, to make this company work and tick, uh, it can be a lot to learn to how to handle yourself. And that's one thing I think that is good about college is the fact that you do go to school with so many different personalities and have to learn how to get along in those group atmospheres and those kinds of things, uh, which brings up my favorite character. And, and he didn't get into the show until later on. I think it was season three or four, two or three, three or four was Andy Bernard who ended up being Ed Helms, who, you know, became super famous because of the, the movie, the hangover. Um, I loved it because he was this Ivy league, white collar kid working in a paper company, and nobody gave a crap about how high society he was.
Felipe Arevalo:And he brought it up all all the time.
Chase Peckham:It was all a farce.
Felipe Arevalo:He's so proud kept bringing it up. And there was like, people would look at him like, oh, we're in the same boat buddy.
Chase Peckham:Yeah we're working under the same roof. Right. It's true though.
Felipe Arevalo:Right.
Chase Peckham:Honestly, once you get that first job or, I mean, that degree is, is going to be really good for your first job or two. But after that. Really what have you done?
Felipe Arevalo:Unless it's a specialized field? Like a biology research type thing. You're, it's, it's just becomes a little.
Chase Peckham:If you're paper your selling paper and it doesn't matter where you come in,
Felipe Arevalo:Especially doesn't matter where you got your degree from. I mean, he could have had that Cornell degree and gotten it from, I don't know any other schools in Pennsylvania, but, uh, Pittsburgh college or something.
Chase Peckham:Penn?
Felipe Arevalo:Penn. Oh yeah. That's a good school. Uh, Penn state. Yeah. I was trying to find like, uh, which is probably why, I don't know it, uh, you know, university of.
Chase Peckham:Pittsburgh, community college.
Felipe Arevalo:Yeah. Or something like, I think they had a call it community college in Scranton.
Chase Peckham:Yeah there you go Scranton community College.
Felipe Arevalo:Um, but you know, you get that degree. It doesn't really matter that much if you got it at, you know, Cornell, or if you got it at, you know, one of the, any other regular school that you four your university that you can attend, you know, it was just a matter of whether or not you got the degree. Um,
Chase Peckham:Right.
Felipe Arevalo:And you, maybe you save some money by going to a less prestigious four year university and staying local or whatever, you know, wherever you happen to live. Um, so there's that, do you want to take on that extra student loan debt for that prestigious degree, as opposed to this quote unquote prestigious degree? Um, so you know, that added like a whole nother aspect to it.
Chase Peckham:Absolutely. He didn't have a lot of friends at the beginning with his attitude.
Felipe Arevalo:No,
Chase Peckham:I'm guessing creed didn't have a college degree. I could be wrong.
Katie Utterback:He may have had a couple of fraudulent degrees. What did you have? Like a fake passport. And he, he made a comment that if he ever accumulated debt, he just transferred his debt to his other like.
Chase Peckham:Personality.
Katie Utterback:Yeah. So he didn't have to worry about
Chase Peckham:'cause, you know, his real name is creed and real life. That's really funny. I had no idea.
Katie Utterback:Aren't there a few characters on the show.
Chase Peckham:Yes Phillis Yeah, that's real. Yeah. Phyllis and Phyllis got that job. She, her original job was, uh, actually, um, working, uh, lines with the potential actors and the more she just sat there and the way she talked, she intrigued the director and the producer, uh, Greg Daniels and Ken coppice. And they just were like, she's, she's perfect for this position. And that's how it happened. They're like, oh, by the way, can you act, I don't know.
Felipe Arevalo:I like, I don't know is this acting? It's a different type of acting. then, then, you know, because they were acting as normal people working in an office, it required a different type of, you can just be normal and you were acting.
Chase Peckham:That's the crazy, thing you had your, like, people that have never really acted before that were on that show, you have people that were like trained stage actors that were on that show, Dwight being one of them. Um, and Brian, Kevin, they were like, they did the whole plays and off-Broadway and all those kinds of, and then you had stand up people and you had, um, the, they were trained in, uh, improv. I mean, there were, it was such a great dynamic in that show. It was really, really good. And they made you really feel you. I think people really liked it because they felt like they saw themselves in a lot of the different characters as they did before. And so watching it now and seeing the different money personalities, these are real people, just like you and me, even though they were a lot funnier than us,
Felipe Arevalo:We have our moments.
Chase Peckham:We do have, we do have our moments, Katie, as always, it's so much fun to have you with us on the podcast. We need you, we need to have you more often.
Katie Utterback:Thanks for having me.
Chase Peckham:Um, but, uh, again, the blog is so good. Uh, and you can just go to debtwave.org, and you can go to the blog. Um, I believe it's just forward slash blog. It is Debtwave.org/blog. And there are so many different types of you're going to find one for you. Um, and so check it out because, uh, I would say what 90% of them are done written by you. At least we have a couple of guest blogs here and there.
Katie Utterback:Yeah I thinks so. So if you don't like my style, you can find somebody else's style in the block section that you could do. Like,
Chase Peckham:Well, I, it's amazing how many things are relatable to personal finance and the things that we talk about, uh, that are on these different shows and the fact that you, uh, are, I didn't even ask you, are you a huge fan of The Office to even write that or did it just,
Katie Utterback:I am, I am, but I'm also trying to get a better understanding and relationship with money. So I started watching TV shows and movies that I like, and I'm trying to watch it through the perception of how the characters relate to money, how they handle money and just how money pops up so that I can get a better understanding of it in my own life
Chase Peckham:And what I want to do with it. That's brilliant. So.
Felipe Arevalo:That was really cool.
Chase Peckham:Well, like always, please sign up like us, follow us, do all of the things that you can do, download the podcast and, uh, we'll see you guys next week.