#115 Mental Health, Career Changes and Spending in 2022 with Nate Astle

The worldwide pandemic has changed our way of life over the last year and a half with how we purchase food, clothing and goods. It has brought us drive up delivery, Uber Eats, Door Dash and more. It has also changed the way we look at life, relationships and our careers. There has been a profound shift, just go to your nearest restaurant or retail store and you will see, "we're hiring" signs. It's everywhere!

This week Nate Astle returns to Talk Wealth To Me to discuss the mental stress and trauma that people are experiencing as well as his own journey and mental health that led him to change the course of his career.

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Speaker 1 0:09

Welcome to top wealth, to me, a safe space podcast, where we chat about anything and everything related to personal finance,

Speaker 2 0:19

The

Speaker 3 0:19

Information contain the podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It does not constitute as accounting, legal tax or other professional advice.

Chase Peckham 0:31

First of all, I just wanna say happy New Year to everybody. Uh, this is our first live episode since , uh, the , the new year. So welcome to 2022. Um , and we're so happy to have Nate Astle , with us on , on a different , uh , on , on one to catch up and find out how we're doing. But two, like so many Americans, this pandemic has caused a , a , just a giant shift in the employment market. And , uh, in fact, an article as of today, out of the Washington Post an estimated 4.5 million workers quit or change their jobs , uh, in November of 2021. Um, and that is the newest data , uh , from the department of labor. Um, this is something we're seeing and in fact , um, it's really, really interesting in the fact that I went to Starbucks this morning to get my wife a hot chocolate, as I do every morning , uh, since she has had cancer, she tells me that's kind of what my job is to do is, is I have to make sure I get her the hot chocolate every morning. She says that she's kidding. But , um, honestly I don't know if she really is kidding. Um , <laugh> Starbucks was closed this morning and they had shift their hours. Then I go over to the other Starbucks, which is not too far away and it's only drive through so all of this because they're short on staff and they need to shut their hours down. So the amount of staff that they have, they're not working 18 hours a day. So it's super interesting to see how that's going. And I know Nate that you mentioned earlier before we hit record that it's been a very interesting year for you. Uh, so kind of take us through that.

Nate Astle 2:32

Yeah. So I , I mean everyone's pandemic experience , um, is , is gonna be different. I , I definitely wanna acknowledge that, but I think.

Chase Peckham 2:39

For sure.

Nate Astle 2:41

What we're seeing is kind of a big shift in cultural values. Um, I think one thing, you know, positive or negative, there is a shift happening , um, where I think we're seeing that a lot of jobs , um, are more capable. Like you're , you're more able to do them virtually than initially thought or initially what, you know, companies were comfortable with. Um, the other thing that I think is important here is because people were, you know, stuck at home and so many things were closed down. I think, a lot of people had some time to sit with some other thoughts about what do I want to do with my life. Um, it , it was almost, you know, our , our, our system is built on continued labor, right? It is, we are very much a , uh , what I would call hyper productive society where we produce, even if we don't necessarily need something we produce for capital. Um, and, you know, because that was slowed down from the pandemic, I think a lot of people had to sit like, oh , okay, is this actually what I want to do? Uh, with my life, this is how I want to spend my time. Um, not everyone had that privilege to had go through that. There's lots of people and , you know, essential healthcare and other industries that needed to go or were in certain, you know, economic situations where they had to go. Um, but I think for a , there was a big shift on how people thought about work and what it means to work and where they wanna do it. So, you know, I , we can't really label any of this as good or bad. It's more just, this is different. I think this is something the workforce in general needs to kind of get used to in some way.

Chase Peckham 4:42

It is. And you mentioned , uh , the healthcare industry , um, and even they have lost a , a, a large amount and, and , and for different reasons, I would imagine, and I don't wanna speak for everyone, but we were just at my wife's oncology appointment yesterday and talking about, you know, with COVID kind of resurging and wanting to keep 'em away from hospitals. It's not just space and everything. It's the fact that they don't have the healthcare . They don't have the nurses and the techs because of the stress that they had gone through for so many or for the , for that long period of time. Some of them just said, I'm going into early retirement. I'm just, you know, they're beat up. They're a little too hired and emotionally, so there's a lot of different reasons for it, but it's interesting , uh, that everyone is going through a different reason. So take us through what went through your mindset , uh, as you were deciding what you were doing.

Nate Astle 5:36

Yeah. So , um, uh , previously I was working at a community mental health center. Um, and just like, you know, people's health, deteriorated. Um, and you know, people, you know , healthcare workers were dealing with a huge influx of people with COVID people's mental health was , um, a lot of people were having a lot more challenges. And I was so at the community mental health center , um, I was seeing about 90 clients , um, nine zero , which is about two and a half , I should be seeing.

Felipe Arevalo 6:13

That's a lot.

Nate Astle 6:13

Yeah.

Chase Peckham 6:13

Right.

Nate Astle 6:13

Um , I wasn't seeing all of 'em every week or anything, but just the caseload was so massive. And to be honest, that's F like that is somewhat typical for community mental health, which is another problem. But, you know, I worked there for, you know , it was about eight or nine months and it was having a huge impact on my mental health. Um , I, I honestly, being a therapist is pretty emotionally taxing. Um, you develop good emotional muscles after a while, where you're you get used to it, but at the same time, like everyone was coming in for pandemic stress, everyone was coming in because somehow the pandemic had exacerbated some, some issue that they were dealing with. And that was really hard to sit with because it's what was happening with me. Right. You know? Um, and , uh , you know, it's , it is , it was really difficult. So it , it led me to quit. And I started my own business , um, which, you know, doing private practice where I could decide a lot more of my own hours and had some more autonomy over my schedule. Um, but you know, my, I was in a, a lucky enough place to be able to do that. But at the same time, I think there's a lot of people that I know that couldn't do the same old thing again. And I don't mean to be Debbie downer here or anything, but it's, you know , that is a reality. It's , it's a lot of stress on a lot of people and , um, you know, people need a change.

Chase Peckham 7:51

Yeah. I mean, we talk about.

Felipe Arevalo 7:52

There's definitely been a shift in, in like so many people's way of thinking in so many people's way of at it across , it seems like every industry , um, where, where it's just like people are shifting and , and moving to other things to their own business, you know, like your , like yourself, where I would imagine you're far from the 90 people seeing at this point, right. <laugh> , you're probably not packing in your schedule like that anymore.

Nate Astle 8:21

<laugh> Nope. And it's glorious <laugh>

Felipe Arevalo 8:24

And it probably allows you to be better at what you're doing with the people that you are seeing. I would imagine just that personal touch, whereas like 90 people, how do you keep track of all of them as efficiently as you probably would like?

Nate Astle 8:38

Yeah. And, and that honestly was a big reason of I decided to leave was I , I knew I , I wasn't caring for my clients the way I , I wanted to , um, the way my clients needed honestly. Um, and that, that was also a difficult thing of leaving. I was like, oh, now there's all these people that have to go to a new therapist, but , um, it's kind of just the reality of it is if , if I'm that burn , I'm not doing good work with 90 clients , um, I'm doing average work or maybe below average. And now, you know, I cut a lot , I have 15 to 20 , um , in a given week, which is much more with what I want. And I feel like I'm more invested in my clients. I can remember the stories better. Um, but yeah, well ,

Chase Peckham 9:30

I mean, I shoot, I mean, I, I have to tell you , I , uh , I've had a therapist since my mom passed away and my kids COVID and all of that took its toll. Our dog passed away. My wife got cancer, so <laugh> , it's been a tumultuous three or four years for the Peckham family. And, and it's not lost in us . It's really hard on the kids not to mention the, and them having to do zoom school for so long that all of those other kids have had to do. Uh, the, the being socially , um, away from , uh , their friends in , in really important times in their lives where they're growing up and they're becoming very, very social. Um , it was very, very, very difficult to find. I mean , you wanna talk about a labor force that is completely overworked and it needs more , um, therapists it's, it's that industry , uh, for sure. Um , so having somebody like yourself, I mean, it's super, super important. And to have somebody that is invested , um, I know that it's for me, that I know that my therapist, you can remember what we talked about last week and we can kind of build up on that and discuss those kinds of things that really, really helps. Um, instead of having to spend half my time kind of updating , uh, uh , on where we were. So I commend you. I mean, that, and that's a tough leap. Um, let me ask you , uh , uh , this in , in , in , because this is, you know, at what point did you just say, okay, the 90 is enough, but there's still that you're taking a big chance in starting another business. And you're looking at the quality of not only that your life and if you're not doing a mentally, if you're mentally wiped out, you're not doing those 90 clients, any service at all. So, well , not at all, but less than they probably should get.

Nate Astle 11:29

Right.

Chase Peckham 11:29

So what made you finally, how did you go about the decision? Did you build a business plan? I mean, did you just say, okay, I'm gonna start a new.

Felipe Arevalo 11:38

Talk to your spouse if you have one,

Chase Peckham 11:39

Right. I mean , did you , you didn't , you didn't , did you just say, Hey, I'm open for business.

Felipe Arevalo 11:43

It wasn't, it wasn't a Jerry McGuire moment, right? I would imagine

Chase Peckham 11:46

<laugh> Right.

Nate Astle 11:49

Yeah. I mean, it was, it was a lot of things. So I , um, the business actually was, so I had actually started a business. I had the LLC and I , I started the own business at the beginning of 2021. Um, and what I was doing, I was just , um, creating content for financial planners and, and doing educational client classes for them on basic financial therapy skills. So luckily the bones were already in place as far as starting the business, as far as the decision making process. Um, it was, it was really scary. Um, so my, my partner is a grad student. Um, she is getting our PhD and so it's not like we're rolling in , do like a grad student salary is like 10,000 a year. So we're, we're okay. But it's, you know, it's , it's not like, yeah, it's not like there was a necessarily a big safety net that we had. Um, I think the thing that helped me most was if I kept going at that rate, I wasn't gonna stay a therapist. Um, I , I just couldn't, and it was kind of a , a come to Jesus moment. I was like, this isn't good for me. And, you know, I , uh , I , so I, you know , have my own mental health issues and I was getting more depressed and, you know, I see my own therapist and it's okay. Therapist need therapist. Um, but you know, I , I just, I just realized like, this isn't sustainable for me. I , I can't keep doing this cuz we don't know how long things are gonna be shut down even after things are opened up. And let's say the pandemic is over there . We still went through a really traumatic experience together and there's gonna be fallout from this decades down the road truly. So if I don't find a way to make my mental health stable enough that I can do the job that I want and love to do, then I'm not gonna be in a good place. So honestly it was some convincing for my own therapist, definitely talking to my wife. Um, and you know, she was very supportive, which helps, helps soothe my own anxiety. Uh , um, and uh , it's, it has been good as, as awful as this whole thing has been, it's been a good time to be , and this sounds bad, but it's a good time to start a private practice because so many people need help. Um, the need is very high. It's.

Felipe Arevalo 14:30

Supply and demand. Right?

Nate Astle 14:32

Right. Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo 14:32

At the end of the day, you're, you're helping try and catch up to the at demand.

Chase Peckham 14:37

Absolutely. I mean, you should be commended. I mean, it's great that you had the foresight to do that. And also your wife, you said the support of her, she probably saw the , the, just the physical side of you, the emotional side of you and , and the change in you. Um , and you know, she wants what's best for you so that that's, you know , that's a very difficult thing as, you know, financially, there's that wave of, you know, that this person might be struggling, but yet we still have to pay the bills. So, you know, there's that of how much do you say, suck it up? You know, we need to , we need this and do you say, you know what, we'll, we'll figure it out. And, and I think you should be commended for that because so many people go to the breaking point because they're just afraid to make that leap. And, and it's not just starting a new business, it's doing whatever they want to do. Um, for instance, if they've worked in, we're seeing it, I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, whose kid or kid, I mean, they're in their twenties now and they've been waiting tables for five years and they're just like, I don't need to take this anymore for the amount of money that we get paid. I get yelled at by customers all the time. It's, it's not very gratifying. You know, it's far and few between that. We have the regulars who are super awesome to me versus the people that come in and just want to complain all the time. Uh , do I want to deal with that for what I get paid? Um, I'm gonna go do something else. And so that , that, that industry is seeing the hospital industry is getting crushed because people are like, do I make nothing? And all I do is clean , you know, make beds and clean rooms all day. Can I do something else for the same amount of pay or even do something else for more? Um, and I, we , but what it has done it seems is it's forcing a lot of these industries. I was talking and a buddy who runs a hotel, they're paying their people a lot more. So, I mean, I guess it's, it's , it's a very flesh labor market right now.

Nate Astle 16:42

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. And I , that's a , um, trying to minimize by social issue, commentary, what I think that means is

Chase Peckham 16:51

It's a podcast. It's what we do.

Nate Astle 16:54

Right . But at the same time, I'm like, you know, if they're able to raise the rate, now it means they could have the whole time.

Chase Peckham 17:03

Um , yeah, but we are seeing rates unprecedented over to the consumer as well. Right. So instead of it being a $250 a night hotel room, we're seeing rooms for 400 and some, so again, excuse me, that has to, we gotta figure out where that tipping point is because the business, right. They're trying to keep their costs down as much as they can so they can keep prices for their customers affordable yet . They've gotta , you know, there's , it's a necessary evil. So at something, at some point something's gotta give people are just not gonna travel as much. I know that my wife and I, a few times this year have we've wanted to go get a staycation or a night out. And we just we're like, man, we just cannot, we don't want to afford $400 a night to put our head on a pillow. Um, right . And that's just, you know, but apparently still hotels have been sold out, so somebody's paying it.

Nate Astle 18:04

<laugh> . Yeah. Well , and I think that's , um, you know, just going more on the personal finance side , um , people's financial behaviors and , and the last time we chatted, I was like, money is emotional.

Chase Peckham 18:17

Oh, for sure.

Nate Astle 18:18

Always,

Felipe Arevalo 18:19

yeah. <laugh>.

Nate Astle 18:19

A hundred percent that you can't get away from it.

Chase Peckham 18:22

You cannot.

Nate Astle 18:22

So we look at emotional spending, which I, for sure I was doing , um, especially when things were first locked down , I just needed a little dopamine of when the Amazon box got here, you know? Um ,

Chase Peckham 18:36

<laugh> , you're not the only one Amazon benefited big time from that. My wife was the same way. And even in , since her tire , her cancer diagnosis, there is something soothing about for something new or different

Nate Astle 18:52

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. And I think what's interesting is when I've talked to people who want, who are like, oh shoot, you know, I made some financial decisions that haven't been the best and , um, a lot of it's stress related . Um, they that's when shame cycle tends to start where, oh, no, I felt bad because I shouldn't have bought this thing. Um , or shouldn't have paid X amount for that service, whatever it is . And I feel bad about myself. I'm already down and down some down in the dumps, I'm already lonely. I'm already depressed, dealing with other mental health issues is so I go back to the thing that makes me feel good, which is buying more stuff. Yeah. Um , this happens all the time and it's, it's kind of an addictive model. Um, it's a , a lot of reasons why people who do drugs , um, stay doing drugs is because I feel bad. I have so much guilt and shame about doing the drug or, you know, doing whatever I'm not supposed to do. Um, that I, I get down on myself until I need something to help me feel better.

Felipe Arevalo 20:04

And that's the relief that then just pushes them further into the cycle.

Chase Peckham 20:08

Right.

Nate Astle 20:09

Right. And so the irony here is we have to learn to be kind and gentle to ourselves from making financial decisions that might not have been the best. Yes, absolutely. The numbers will , we're gonna have to deal with it someday . Um, we're we are going to have to, you know, pay back more in our credit, you know , what , whatever it is, but we are going to , we have to stop the bleeding first. And what that means for most of us is learning need to be kind to ourselves for doing what we had to, to survive a really scary thing that none of us had ever dealt with before. You know, our parents had our grandparents haven't , you know, the last time anything closest thing I can think of is like the great war or the depression, you know ? And , um, even then it is my , my point is, is we gotta have to learn to be kind to ourselves with every thing that we've been going through.

Chase Peckham 21:08

Absolutely . Absolutely. I think that the word that empathy is, is something that we need, we think about using with others around us. We need to do that with ourselves. Um, and , and understanding that we all go through our things and that's okay. We're not all super strong all the time. Um, and , and, and we have to be, be okay with that. I mean, I , I was 45 years old before I had to learn that myself. Um, and you know, you , you grow up thinking , um, you know, society's tough. I have to be strong. I've gotta be strong. I've gotta be strong. I can't let, if I'm weak, if I let something bother me , um, I just I'll get through this. And it just adds up and it adds up and it adds up and you keep pushing all that down. And all of a sudden it can erupt and you go, whoa, what is wrong with me? You know, your stomach is bad, your hair's falling out your , you know, your , you feel like your heart, rate's going up all the time. Next thing you have a full blown panic attack and you don't, you feel like you're having a heart attack. You don't know what that is. All of these things. That's why somebody like you is so important. And, and financially too, just talking to somebody about what you're going through can just it see , it'll , it'll just lighten the shoulders. It feels like the weight of the world will start to get less. Uh, and, and you'll feel better. And to know that there are other people in your situation, dealing with the same feelings and the thi the same turmoil and, and the same financial decisions and all these things, you're not alone because that can feel so lonely. You feel like you're the only one on the planet like that. And it's you get, you get again , you use the word shame. I think that that's a great way to use it. That there should be no way. I have my family jumping in and out of my office space.

Nate Astle 23:01

All good .

Chase Peckham 23:01

Sorry.

Felipe Arevalo 23:03

<laugh> it's funny because that's one of the things that we've had to adjust to is working you see my background , um ,

Chase Peckham 23:10

I think the koala bears are very cute.

Felipe Arevalo 23:12

The Koala bears are cool. Those were painted in when , when we got the place, but they've added stickers. My kids , uh ,

Nate Astle 23:18

Yeah. Mario bros .

Chase Peckham 23:20

Super Mario.

Felipe Arevalo 23:20

Yeah. Yeah . Super Mario bros. Uh , Minecraft and Paw Patrol over on this side for the little one. <laugh> um ,

Chase Peckham 23:27

Chase is on the case.

Felipe Arevalo 23:28

Yeah, exactly.

Nate Astle 23:30

Let's be real Felipe there for you and that's okay .

Chase Peckham 23:33

<laugh> and that's OK . Felipe

Felipe Arevalo 23:35

<laugh> whatever makes you happy, right ?

Chase Peckham 23:37

They're soothing. Yeah. There You go.

Felipe Arevalo 23:38

Exactly. But I think we've all done. At least, I feel like in my college years, that spending cycle, you mentioned where it's like, oh, I was broke college kid. Oh, look at that. That watch will make me feel better. Or, you know , I'm a broke college kid. Let's, let's go out to eat guys. Uh , you know, let's buy season tickets at the Padres.

Chase Peckham 24:00

There, you go. That just gets me every time. <laugh>

Felipe Arevalo 24:05

The , the problem was I was broke. So Why go commit to spending more money. Uh , but at the time it's kind of what it was fun. It was great. It made me feel all right about it. And, you know, I'll just deal with it later. I'll figure it out later. And , and then it just became so much, and it was like, man, like I've been messing this up for quite a while now. Um , but it , it was , you don't think about it when it's happening or at least that's what it seems like. You don't, people don't realize the cycle unless you've taken the time to actually sit down and think about it.

Nate Astle 24:37

Right. Yeah. And, and that's the other thing is it's really easy to think. Okay. My , my I'll fix my financial situation when I either have more money or , um, which helps. Okay . Yeah, it does. Um, but two is we, we need to learn to sit with the emotions that cause us to behave, you know , act out financially. Um, we're able our long term , financial behaviours change when we're able to say, okay, right now I'm feeling sad, angry, lonely, scared, grief, whatever it is, and be like, okay, let me, let me sit with that. Before I make a decision about whether to purchase that thing on Amazon or to go out to eat or whatever it is, not that there's anything there's no moral right. Or wrongness to doing any of that. But before I make a decision about that, let me just sit with my feeling, what am I actually needing? Do I need to hug? Do I need to cry? Do I need to talk to someone? Um, do I need to escape some other way? You know, watching a show, some , um, you know, whatever do I need to go for a walk? Can I meet the need that my emotion has without spending or without doing whatever it is? Um, so again, we need to reduce shame. So there's not , there's nothing wrong with going out to eat, you know, or are doing that thing. But the , my guess is the thing that helped most for you Felipe for all of us, for me, is when we learn to sit with the emotions that we're uncomfortable with, or the sit with the things we're trying to avoid , um, which it's a big ask, it really is. Um, and, and we can do it. It's little by little. We're like, okay, I'm gonna sit with this hard feeling. I'm gonna acknowledge. I'm gonna learn to validate myself. Um, and it can have a huge, huge impact.

Felipe Arevalo 26:39

It's funny, every season, the Padres call me up and say, Hey, we have you as a previous season ticket holder, we have new plans. We have new seats. Let's set you back up every year. And, and it's like, I can't afford it now. I, I, in a different place now I'd have to get four of 'em , you know , two kids and a wife <laugh> and I couldn't afford 'em then I , I still can't now , although I'm closer to actually being able to afford 'em now than I was.

Chase Peckham 27:06

You can just borrow mine whenever you want, buddy.

Felipe Arevalo 27:08

There you go. <laugh> and it's just like, and it's just like, man, that like every year I get that call and it kind of makes me laugh where it's like, Hey, we're just following up. Looks like you had tickets before. We wanna see if you want to come back.

Chase Peckham 27:21

I'll tell you what though. You , you mentioned the pottery that that was a pandemic purchase by my wife and I, because of purely the idea of we are so tired of not being able to do anything. And the one thing that gave us, you know, I worked for the Padres for years. I never bought a ticket to a Padre game, like, or a baseball game really like ever. And here I am, I bought season ticket it's and when I say season tickets, we bought us , you know , a structure, a smaller package.

Felipe Arevalo 27:47

packet.

Chase Peckham 27:47

Yeah. We 20 game deal. We , I mean, good luck, me going to 20 games right out of the 40 , um , but, or out of the 80 . So, but at that point it was like it's outside, it's our kids really get an enjoyment out of it is something we can do with a, and then we re and we re-upped again this year, just because it's, we found out that we liked it so much, but I never would've done that. Had it not been for the pandemic in being home. So , uh, being home so much. Um , so, you know, but that was something that came out of the pandemic for sure that I, I mean , I never would've thought of a season ticket holder. It just wasn't something I was interested in doing, but the pandemic makes you change your <laugh> , your viewpoint.

Felipe Arevalo 28:33

Emotional spending.

Chase Peckham 28:34

And emotional. Yes. On a lot of different things,

Felipe Arevalo 28:36

Even though it could be responsible, emotional spending.

Chase Peckham 28:39

It was being around people. Again , it was being the , the fact of hearing the cord , the crowd, or the , the people next to you, the people, even if you were air high fiving, cuz you didn't want to touch or whatever it was still, it was like you were at an alive event, which we hadn't been able to see in so long except on TV. It was, it was pretty amazing. Um, the feeling in the euphoria that you got from it and it was at that point worth every penny, just as see my kids out of the house, excited for a ball that was hit out of the ballpark or a great play or something like that. Even my daughter who doesn't give two hoots about baseball was just excited to be out there and hear the roar of the crowd and eat a hot dog , you know? So that , that it it's something to be said for, for, for that kind of thing. And I think that was mentally healing for a us as well. Um,

Felipe Arevalo 29:28

Yeah. And like same thing for like traveling and, and all that stuff that you, you know, have get out there and do things. It is just became, it took like on a different, you mentioned emotion and money and you know, it's all tied in, but it triggered emotions differently to spend money on, you know, we went, my wife and I went to a concert which actually bought the tickets before COVID and then postpone postponed canceled. And then eventually two years later she got to go to our concert <laugh> um , but you know , we , we did , uh , Green Day and, and uh , fallout boy. And what was it? Weezer ? Um, she , more her , it was just like her birthday present from 2019 that she got to go through late 2020 , um, you know, but getting to go do things Chase mentioned and , and , you know , travel experiences that people weren't able to do for long periods of time. It created different emotional, you know , triggered different emotional things, the same spending that we may have gotten used to spending for other reasons previously. Um, I haven't done any traveling yet. Um , my kids have a hard am on a short car ride .

Chase Peckham 30:43

They're they're in a different Kinda, they're at a different age,

Felipe Arevalo 30:46

Right? <laugh> our travel is from here to the beach. Um

Chase Peckham 30:51

<laugh> so Nate, has it worked out for you? I mean, within a year, I know that they say that it takes businesses. Um, are you at a place where you feel like you're financially comfortable enough that your business is taking off, that it's replaced the, or , or at least come close or replaced the income that you were making with your per your prior job?

Nate Astle 31:08

Yeah. Um, yes, that, and <laugh> , that's been actually really nice. So I was seeing about 30, 35 clients a week. Um, which is a lot , um, I think ,

Chase Peckham 31:20

think about how many hours are in a week.

Nate Astle 31:21

Or yeah, that's lot of therapy . Um , and I only had , um , I only had to see seven clients a week to make the same amount , um, at my private practice. So.

Felipe Arevalo 31:33

That's great.

Nate Astle 31:34

Yeah. It's I think , um, yeah, so I , I do have my , my seven clients. Um , so yeah, I've actually gotten a bit of a rate since going out on my own. Um,

Chase Peckham 31:45

Well that just proves it, right. I mean, that , that , that you being scared, but you took the leap. I mean, and , and , you know, coaches use this in all the time. Uh, you know, when you talk to inspirational speakers and they'll say, you know , there's, you know, successful people weren't , weren't successful unless they took a chance and they failed more times than they succeeded. But boy, when they succeeded, they succeeded. So you , I mean, you just take it . I mean, there's, there's no chance of you succeeding if you don't take that chance. Mm-hmm <affirmative> I think that's what a lot of people are looking at right now. You said they were reassessing their lives, reassessing what they were doing on their daily grind. They weekly grind and saying is , there's gotta be more.

Nate Astle 32:29

Yeah, but we , we just gotta take it one step at a time. <laugh>

Chase Peckham 32:32

Yeah, absolutely. Are, are you finding that , um , there's gonna be no shortage of, of , uh , clients for you? I would imagine. Um, but do you find just talking to people that people are feeling like things are getting better or is it still people reeling?

Nate Astle 32:51

Um, I would say a , a lot of my clients are more used to it. Um, they're at least used to staying home a little bit more or, or even if they're not, they're just used to the world. Um, I think what happens right , right about now in the last, maybe even the last six months and or, or so is, it's like we're slowly deflating a balloon. That's been overinflated. Um, it's not better. It's not normal. We're not, we're definitely not. Okay . But I think he knows that exhaustion you have after you run and you you're , you've stopped running, but your heart is still beating really fast and you're still , or kind of like when you , um , on one of those indoor Tre or , uh , bicycle things,

Chase Peckham 33:46

Peloton or whatever.

Nate Astle 33:48

Yeah, yeah. Whatever it's called and , and you stop pedalling , but the tire is still spinning inside. I feel like that's where we're at is we're learning to slow down, but <affirmative> , um , for a lot of us, we're , we're still reeling. And the effects of the reeling is if it hasn't shown up already will show up soon where I think a lot of our mental health, like, so what , this is what we, you know, we call trauma and trauma affects , um, affects a lot of things for us financially for us, but it affects our brains and how we learn to respond to stress. So it's kind of like we're coming out of survival mode maybe for , for some of us, at least. And I feel like with coming out of survival mode, we're probably gonna know us , ourselves being a little bit more reactive to things that wouldn't have bothered us before as much. Um, when I say reactive, it's not just like anger or things like that, but it's things that wouldn't have bothered us before. Things that wouldn't have caused a big emotional experience for us before were probably gonna be like, oh , like some mild loneliness that we might have been able to kind of sweep under the rug or not worry about too much. If we notice that we're isolated and we're , we're , we're , you know, hands up against , well , what's going on. I don't wanna have to go through this again.

Chase Peckham 35:15

Right.

Nate Astle 35:15

And it's a totally natural response to stress. It's, it's what our brains do to keep safe. Um , that's what I'm anticipating seeing over the next six months to couple years, honestly.

Chase Peckham 35:30

Yeah. I mean, it , I think that fatigue came out when the governor , uh, at the state of California gave us the mask mandate indoors. Again, even though it's probably good for us, just the idea that it was mandated again, felt like we were falling. We were going backwards again. And, and so many people were just like, no, not again, like you're frustrated, even though you understand it on the, you know, as a whole, it's the whole idea of, oh my God, it's thought we were through this. I thought we were are , we're not gonna do this again. Are we, we're not gonna be all shut down at home curfew. We just businesses shut their doors again. I mean, we just, the pain that people went through, we can't do this again. Can't we? And just, just the anticipation of that might happen is it's gotta be fatiguing.

Nate Astle 36:17

Yeah. Yeah. That's what we call flashbacks. Um, it's I , I know it's weird to think like, oh, this isn't the same as like a war, our brains do the exact same thing, whether it's a pandemic or a battle field or childhood trauma or abuse.

Chase Peckham 36:32

So posttraumatic.

Nate Astle 36:34

Uhhuh post is a sign of posttraumatic stress to sort of, not all of us experience that, but I think as a, as a society, absolutely. We that's exactly what we're seeing. Um, it's it's yeah, yeah. And it's, it don't mean to be scary, but I it's , it's like, okay, we have a name for this. You're not crazy. There's nothing wrong with you. Um, your brain is doing exactly what it's supposed to, which is keep you safe. It's just doing it in a way that's really uncomfortable and might not be the best long term mental health wise , but it's , um, it's something we're, we're gonna have to learn to understand. Yeah.

Chase Peckham 37:13

Yeah. It was something that the, when we were created the , the brain, was that the reason that it does that is it gets you out of danger. Right. It tells you that you're in danger and that you can leave that danger. And then eventually it will tell you, okay, you're out of a danger, but when we're stressed for that long period of time, it accumulates. Right. Is that basically the way your body's just working overtime ? Um , mm-hmm <affirmative>

Nate Astle 37:35

Yeah. Yeah. And we start to misfire as well . The way I think about it, but essentially my things that aren't dangerous and scary feel like it. And some things that are dangerous and scary, we become numb to it's like the things that are supposed to keep us safe, it's misfiring. And so even if, yeah, even if it's like, well, okay, Matt wearing a mask inside ISN, actually a dangerous thing. It reminds of all of all the isolation and the bad feelings we had and scared feelings and what is fear. It's a natural response to danger. Um, even if we can't see it. Right. So yeah . It's normal .

Felipe Arevalo 38:16

Yeah. It's super interesting. It's like Chase mentioned the mandates. I have a little one who's three, so he's not old enough to get the vaccine. And when the little study came out that the under five vaccine had been delayed because they didn't get the proper results. So he can't get it yet. It was the first time in a long time where I , I was reading it , I told my wife, like , I need a minute. Like I need to step away. And I don't usually need a minute, but I need a minute right now. Cause it was just so deflating to be like, gosh, I thought he was gonna get one in January, maybe February and now it's Q2. And it was just like, I had to step away, but it it's hard to sometimes tell yourself, like, I just need a minute to just go and just sit. And, and it's the same thing with everything else, you know, emotions and personal finances and, and everything that goes along with it. Sometimes it's okay to say I need a minute. <laugh>

Chase Peckham 39:10

Yeah.

Nate Astle 39:10

Yeah. I , I think that's a big deal that you are able to recognize. I need a minute.

Felipe Arevalo 39:17

I don't do a good job of it. Every once in a while. It's like, oh man, I really need a minute .

Chase Peckham 39:22

I've had to learn to and it works.

Nate Astle 39:25

The self-awareness is hard but worth it. Um , because when you are able to recognize, oh, hang on, this is, this is trauma coming out. Not me , maybe my , my wisest self. Um, and , and I need to take care of that part of me. Um, I , I do a lot of work when I'm working with people. Who've experienced trauma. Um, it's called internal family systems. It's a theory. I won't go too much into it, but I like thinking about all inside of us, inside of our brains, we have smaller versions of ourselves. We have a six year old version of ourselves. We have a teenager version of ourselves , um, when we're having trauma responses and we're like, oh, I'm afraid right now. Or I'm really disappointed. Um , kind of going within ourselves and asking, what does six year old make feeling six year old Nate is feeling scared about whether he's going to be safe. Okay. How can I comfort six year old , Nate , what is teenage Nate feeling? He's really disappointed and let down by how things have gone or happened and like, okay, what does he need right now? And when we can, sometimes it's helpful to visualize a different person. Um, and learning to be like being kind to ourselves becomes a physical, like how would I be kind to a six year old version of myself or a teenage version of myself? Um, I actually think that helps us move through the trauma , um, a lot better. And I know that that was a very, very big broad brush, but , um, you know, if , if you have the opportunity, seeing a therapist who can help you move through, that can be really helpful as well.

Chase Peckham 41:06

Absolutely can. My biggest thing was just letting go of things I can't control. Um , and there's so many things in our lives, mostly that we can't, that are out of our control. Um, and you, you know, I just, I never realized it because everything had gone so well for me my entire life until my first major tragedy of my mom dying and getting really sick and just , you know, my , the strongest person in the world that I ever knew was my mom and shoot, if she can, what is going on? Right. She's only 67 years old, what , you know, this what's wrong. And that threw me for a loop. That was the first time my world had been completely thrown upside down and my body did not know how to handle it. And mm-hmm , <affirmative> , I've learned that there are just things that are out of our control and every single of , one of us in life, every none of us are gonna , uh, not experience pain. None of us are not gonna experience loss, not , you know, we're all gonna go through that and it's how you deal with it and learn that, you know, life is still a very wonderful, wonderful thing. And we just have to look at, I've learned how to spin it. I've learned how to enjoy what we we have in life and just realize that not everything's gonna be a Disney movie. It just isn't. So, yeah . Um, yeah , and that helps. and having good people around you.

Nate Astle 42:24

Yeah. I , as I'm thinking, just as we're prepping for the future, whatever that means , um, you know, we're, a lot of us are breaking intergenerational trauma cycles. Um, even, you know, even before the pandemic, we've all experienced a big trauma , um, over the last two years and the best things that we can do for ourselves and for kids, if we have them and partners is learn, we've got to learn to work through this stuff, learn to work through it , potentially with a therapist or however works best for you. Um, because if you can learn to feel your feelings now take, you know, learn to be mindful full of what you're experiencing , uh , learn to be intentional with our decisions, learn to be , um, open and honest with our communication with our partners. We're gonna prevent a lot of hurt , um, for our, for our kids. So I think it's, it's a big deal that we're even trying. And I think all of us collective need to be applauded for the fact that we're still going and that's a big deal. Well, Nate,

Chase Peckham 43:40

I, you sound amazing. You look amazing. Um, and , and I know that are.

43:45

Where can People find you Nate? Yeah. They wanna learn more find some of your articles or just learn more about what

Speaker 4 43:51

You're doing. Yeah. So I , I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. I , um , just look for Nathan Astel or , uh , my business is relational money, so you can go to relational money.com. Um, I think , but yeah , interact on Twitter. So I see you on there as well. I do, I tweets, which is, you know, pretty fancy <laugh> , it's what the youths do. You're so yeah, you can find me brave <laugh> yeah, but I'm happy, you know, if anyone just wants to reach out and want resources or if they, you know, if they are seeking therapy services, even if I can't find you, you know, if I'm not the right fit, I'm happy to help send resources and places you can look. So, yeah, that's great . Just wanna be giving people what they

Speaker 2 44:39

Need. Well, congratulations , uh , on making the leap and you look great and , uh, I hope , uh, the futures , uh , bright and we'll check in again with you in the fall and see how, how things are going. Don't be a stranger.

Speaker 4 44:53

Okay . Sounds good. Thanks so much forever .

Speaker 2 44:54

Thank you, Nate. Thanks very much, Nate. Wow. Phil, I'll tell you what that was . That was good. Yeah. That was really something. And, and for those listeners , um , again, happy new year , um, like us, download us, follow us. Um , give us a review, give us the reviews. We love reviews. Um, this, I think kind of really set the tone for 2022 and , uh , we're looking forward to , uh, to this coming year and, and all the rest of the great , uh, discussions and guests that we're gonna ,