#117 The Sandwich Generation. What is it and What to do to Prepare for It?

Saving for ones own retirement and financial goals is hard enough. When that responsibility is added to the cost of being a parent and caring for ones own parents you get the Sandwich Generation. This situation can be a financial burden to most people's budget but are all sandwiches created equal? What can you do to avoid ending up financially unprepared?  How do you break the cycle? Grab a bite to eat and enjoy the conversation.

Transcript

Intro 0:09

Welcome to Talk Wealth to Me, a safe space podcast, where we chat about anything and everything related to personal finance, The information contained in the podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It does not constitute as accounting, legal tax or other professional advice.

Chase Peckham 0:31

So one of the many discussions that we've had coming out of the pandemic in that we have noticed there's been, uh, we've noticed, and I've really noticed it in my neighborhood, uh, is in the way they're building homes. Um, there's this thing called a sandwich generation and my son would think that that is something that he would love because he, that just means he's going to Jersey mics quite a bit<laugh> um, yet, yet that's not what it is. Um, and I'm getting close to that time where that could become a real possibility.

Felipe Arevalo 1:11

Yeah. It's, it's something where, you know, depending on whereabouts people are, certain cultures may have been doing it for generations. It's becoming more and more prevalent across all cultures, because life expectancy is up and, and people are living to older and older ages. So, you know, they're, they're around longer. Um, so there's more potential for generation overlaps,

Chase Peckham 1:35

Right, and that's why we talk so much about how preparing for retirement or trying to plan for retirement can be so difficult, not just because you are trying to, uh, live your life on a, you know, li on a, on a certain amount of income versus what your expenses are. But the fact is we have no real idea of how long we're going to live,

Felipe Arevalo 1:59

Right.

Chase Peckham 1:59

And how much money that's going to take to have us afford the lifestyle we have and where a lot of families are then having to make decisions on whether they move their parents in. Uh, if on the other side, if kids, you know, need to live with their parents a little longer, because the job market is not as Good,

Felipe Arevalo 2:20

Or they boomerang back after college, the

Chase Peckham 2:22

Boomer generation that's, that's a whole other podcast discussion that we can have, but the sandwich generation is multifaceted. Isn't

Felipe Arevalo 2:32

It is. It is now you made me hungry with the Jersey Mike's comment because now I really number 42. That's my, that's my go-to sandwich. Um, there's different type sandwiches and it's not just about food. Um, it it's, and, and I learned this myself. I, I figured there's different ways to arrange it all. I didn't realize that we had a sandwich name for all of them. Um, but you know, there's the traditional, uh, sandwich generation. So those are kind of sandwich between aging parents and their own children.

Chase Peckham 3:06

So typically could be your thirties, forties.

Felipe Arevalo 3:09

Yeah. It's it's.

Chase Peckham 3:10

Fifties maybe.

Felipe Arevalo 3:10

I think right now the majority of'em are, are forties, fifties, uh, what you would consider,

Chase Peckham 3:19

We're having children later as a, as a whole.

Felipe Arevalo 3:21

Having children. Yeah. The whole, the whole dynamic is changing. You know, people are having children later in life,

Chase Peckham 3:26

Right.

Felipe Arevalo 3:27

People are living longer, but then you also have the open faced sandwich. Um,

Chase Peckham 3:33

Okay.

Felipe Arevalo 3:33

So it's anyone who's involved in like elder care. So you may not be taking of people below you younger than you, but you may be taking care of your parents.

Chase Peckham 3:43

So in this case, the kids could be gone and you're taking care of your parents and, or grandparents,

Felipe Arevalo 3:48

Correct. Or both.

Chase Peckham 3:50

And it maybe not taking care of as much, but does that mean maybe cohabitating?

Felipe Arevalo 3:56

Yeah. It could be cohabitating. It, it may not even, and be, I think it applies to more people than, than initially thought, because it, it may be something where you just go in and check on'em a few hours and, and they're, they may be fi it doesn't always even have to be financial. You know, it, it could be a financial contribution that you're helping, or it might just be, you know, you pop in and help'em out and drive a'em to appointments, uh, medical appointments, or maybe they don't drive. And you can bring'em to the grocery store. You do their groceries for'em, that's all. Um, although you maybe doing it willingly and, and, and outta the kindness of your heart, and it doesn't really bother you, it does take up your time. So then that kind of puts you in that sandwich generation, uh, definition. Um, and then you also have the club sandwich. Uh,

Chase Peckham 4:46

That's interesting. The club sandwich. I love to hear that.

Felipe Arevalo 4:49

So, so that one, it's not just the picture my wife has on our dining room table, um, which I will add to the SWYM live presentation. Um, but it's those in their fifties and sixties who are kind of Sandwiched between aging parents and then children, and maybe even grandchildren or,

Chase Peckham 5:09

Oh, so children coming back so boomeranging,

Felipe Arevalo 5:12

Right.

Chase Peckham 5:12

Or maybe they never left.

Felipe Arevalo 5:14

<laugh> Maybe they never left and now they have their kids. So now it could be the individual taking care of their parents, their kids, and their grandkids, or maybe someone who's a little bit younger taking care of their kids, their parents, and their grandparents that, so it's just like multiple layers

Chase Peckham 5:32

That sounds incredibly difficult to me.

Felipe Arevalo 5:35

It does, but, but in, in, in some cultures, it's, it's just a very common thing.

Chase Peckham 5:40

Actually in most cultures outside of a U.S, or western cultures.

Felipe Arevalo 5:43

And it varies, it varies to what degree. So you could be part of a club sandwich. You could be part of the club sandwich at any given layer. And it may not necessarily be that that's causing undue financial hardship for the individual. It might be something where, especially if they're co you mentioned like cohabitating where the older generation might be living there and they may be getting help, but they're also helping out with the grandkids, you know, or

Chase Peckham 6:12

Children, in some cases,

Felipe Arevalo 6:14

Children, in some cases, it depends on which part of the layers, you know, if it's, you know, someone taking care of two generations older and then one younger, or if they're taking care of maybe one generation older and two younger on where the help is coming from. And I think it's something where

Chase Peckham 6:31

It's a family working together. Right. And it, and it helps.

Felipe Arevalo 6:35

It takes a village.

Chase Peckham 6:36

Right.

Felipe Arevalo 6:36

Right. Sometimes.

Chase Peckham 6:37

Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo 6:37

And, and it, it can be something where it could be mutually beneficial. It doesn't sandwich generation doesn't have to be, or it's just the whole idea of the sandwich. Doesn't always have to be negative.

Chase Peckham 6:47

I was gonna say.

Felipe Arevalo 6:47

If the finances are in place.

Chase Peckham 6:49

Right.

Felipe Arevalo 6:50

It could actually be, you know,

Chase Peckham 6:51

Very functional,

Felipe Arevalo 6:53

Functional. Yeah.

Chase Peckham 6:54

Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo 6:54

And, and it could be something that can greatly benefit every generation, uh, or every level of the quote unquote Sandwich.

Chase Peckham 7:04

I know in many, many cultures, this is just a normal thing that, you know, you, you, your parents helped bring you up and you are gonna help take care of your parents. And those grandparents now are gonna help take care of your children, uh, as you, you go to work and, and it's just kind of this, uh, revolving door, right. It's something that just.

Felipe Arevalo 7:24

Right.

Chase Peckham 7:24

Kind of generation keeps taking their responsibilities at different times.

Felipe Arevalo 7:30

Yeah. And it's something where, you know, it is something my family's big on. I guess we fall into a lot of the sandwich categories. Um, like my grandma, for example, she lives here in San Diego, but she'll spend a month here and there at all, my different uncles houses. And she's just kind of traveling from east county to La Mesa to wherever. Um, and, and she kind of that's, that's what she does now. Um, when my grandpa was around, before it passed earlier this year, um, he would stay at my parents' house when he was, when he was around here or at one of my, uh, uncle's houses, uh, in La Mesa. And it was something where, you know, he, he didn't really, he was self-sufficient, he took care of himself. He just needed rides to his doctor's appointments. And, and, you know, every once in a while ride to the gr grocery store. Um, but you know, other than that, he just kind of did his thing and he'd go on his walks. And then, um, and it was just kind of cool when he was at my parents' house to see him interact, to get to interact with him. When I would go pick up, as I've mentioned, my mom watches my, uh, uh, we got her pseudo retire, and now she's, uh, a daycare.

Chase Peckham 8:43

Helps out with your kids and your brother's kids.

Felipe Arevalo 8:45

Yeah, exactly.

Chase Peckham 8:46

That saves you some money.

Felipe Arevalo 8:47

It saves me some money. I didn't have to background check the people taking care of my kid. Um, and, and it's<laugh>, and it's kind of cool. It was, it was really cool when my grandpa was there to, to have my kid get to interact with him on a daily basis. Um, and, and, you know, get to hang out with him. Um, and, and it was, it's just something that, um, it, I think it's invaluable in, in many ways, um, not necessarily just the financial aspect, but it could be something where, um, you know, you get to hang out with, uh, those older generations you learn from the older generations. My<laugh> Barrington, shows, my mom, him, how to work her Amazon fire TV stick<laugh>, uh, when he is over there, I'm like, oh, grandma, you have, you have all these things. You just need to go to them Um, but so it could be mutually beneficial to everyone involved in the, in this sandwich generation. It could also be a drawback though, if, if the finances are not in order and, and if any given layer of the sandwich, isn't doing their part, um, it, it can really throw things off.

Chase Peckham 10:06

So that's where it's interesting. And most of us in, in the us would look at like a sandwich generation thing as being a, a negative, as you kind of mentioned at the beginning, a, um, because we would think of that as, oh, I'm taking care of my parents because they can't afford to live anymore. Um, or they didn't plan well enough, and which could be the case, um, or the boomerang situation where, you know, my, I love my child. He's back from college. He doesn't have a job. So he is living at home and you're in that sandwich, whether you planned for it, or you probably didn't. So you're not exactly thrilled about it. Uh, but for Mo a lot of cultures, it's just part of the family dynamic working together.

Felipe Arevalo 10:52

It, it, there could be financial implications that go along with it, obviously more people to, to in all the different layers, depending on where, where on the sandwich, totem pole, uh, the biggest support comes from is usually there's a person who's being sandwiched.

Chase Peckham 11:08

Yes.

Felipe Arevalo 11:08

Um, and that's the person feeling the most stress, whether it be for, because they're the caretakers or because they financial support, that's kind of holding the whole darn sandwich together.

Chase Peckham 11:20

Right. And that typically would historically fall upon women.

Felipe Arevalo 11:25

The, the, exactly the, especially the care taking. And I think the care taking is, is skewed very much towards the, the women who are maybe taking care of elder parents, potentially, maybe even in-laws, um, and then taking care of the children as well, or further down grandchildren.

Chase Peckham 11:49

Yeah. Um, raising a young family and taking care of the parents or.

Felipe Arevalo 11:53

The elder one.

Chase Peckham 11:53

Right.

Felipe Arevalo 11:54

Right. And that adds a lot of undo.

Chase Peckham 11:58

A lot of stress.

Felipe Arevalo 11:58

Pressure.

Chase Peckham 11:59

Yes I can't even imagine.

Felipe Arevalo 12:00

Financially and otherwise.

Chase Peckham 12:01

Yeah.

Felipe Arevalo 12:02

And, and it's something where if, if you're the middle part holding the sandwich together, you've gotta be able to, I think we talked about this with Nate on, on the first, uh,

Chase Peckham 12:13

Episode of the year.

Felipe Arevalo 12:14

Show of the year, couple, a couple episodes ago where you have to be able to look at it and say, I need to take a step back and I need to take care of myself.

Chase Peckham 12:25

Yes.

Felipe Arevalo 12:25

Because if you're the one holding the sandwich together, you you've gotta take care of yourself so that you can better keep the whole thing together.

Chase Peckham 12:33

Yeah. I mean, you would much rather have a really good Jersey Mike's sandwich than have the very minimal Gosh,

Felipe Arevalo 12:43

Like the one my kid makes.

Chase Peckham 12:44

The one that your child makes. Right.

Felipe Arevalo 12:46

Right.

Chase Peckham 12:47

Yeah. That's a good point.

Felipe Arevalo 12:49

<laugh> is I that's like his go-to, uh,

Chase Peckham 12:53

Kid who put one thing of baloney and nothing else between two slices of bread.

Felipe Arevalo 12:57

Exactly.

Chase Peckham 12:57

You don't have quite as fulfilling of a, of a sandwich.

Felipe Arevalo 13:00

No, it's not the same thing, It's still a sandwich.

Chase Peckham 13:01

We're looking to take care of the sandwich. We want the number eight club sub. Right. That's what we're talking about.

Felipe Arevalo 13:08

Yeah.

Chase Peckham 13:09

Is, is getting that Jersey Mike's reference. And if you guys wanna support us, uh, and advertise on the Talk Wealth to Me Podcast, please do so because I will be paid in Sandwiches.

Felipe Arevalo 13:20

We're big fans. Exactly.

Chase Peckham 13:22

We are my son, I mentioned at the beginning, big, big fan, but it, it makes sense. You wanted everything to be fresh and, and makes sure that, and it, cuz it can work very well. And in times when, I mean, who can you rely on more than your family and want to right now? Does that mean that because you are family that you have to take care? Well, I know families that they've, they're like, look, you do your thing and I'll do ours. And mom and dad only need to support me through high school. And once you're 18 and you're an adult, you're on your own. Right. You're an adult now. Um, most people aren't gonna be like that. You know, family's gonna be important to them. But as I mentioned in this scenario where they could move into the house and all that, that works, if it just, they had one child and they have a family, if you have multiple children, how do you can't move every family in.

Felipe Arevalo 14:22

Right.

Chase Peckham 14:22

So how do you choose? And that could be a very difficult thing.

Felipe Arevalo 14:25

You got to pick and chose.

Chase Peckham 14:26

Yes.

Felipe Arevalo 14:26

Right.

Chase Peckham 14:27

And then if you're right,

Felipe Arevalo 14:28

It's a communication thing too. If that's the plan that should be spoken to spoken about long before you, you have have, you know, that situation arise and then you have to have in the buy-in from the people who join into this family sandwich, those spouses who haven't grown up in this who, who have to say, okay, yeah, I'm all right with moving in with your parents or having your parents move in with us. Or, you know, there has to be that buy-in from the spouses and then, you know, the further generations as you go down, but it comes back to having an open line of communication, like so many other things, personal finances, uh, it, people probably like, oh, they're gonna talk about communication and planning. Uh,

Chase Peckham 15:09

well that's kind of it That is the thing. And it, and it crosses many things and branches in the tree of personal finance.

Felipe Arevalo 15:19

Yeah.

Chase Peckham 15:20

But it is true. Communication is so incredibly important. And again, culturally talking about finances it.

Felipe Arevalo 15:29

It might be taboo.

Chase Peckham 15:30

Frowned upon and taboo. However, sometimes as we mentioned before, when families get to a certain place, the, it can be handed down, right? So the, the elderly parents who were taking care of the family and were the patriarchs now are gonna hand it over to the oldest child, uh, who, and, and their family who helps take care of the others or they all discuss family situations. So everybody kind of knows what is happening. And that is incredibly important here for many, many, many different factors, not just did your parents plan well enough to have retirement for, for as long as they were going to live, but it, you can set yourself up for generational wealth,

Felipe Arevalo 16:18

Right.

Chase Peckham 16:19

And that's something that you can think about. Uh, you know, my father and I discuss this all the time. I all the time, we, we have discussed it many times on what we are going to and how we're gonna structure, you know, the way we set generational wealth for my brother and I, my, my kids, his kids down the line and how that's going to go. And not only for the fact of, for our futures and our kids' futures, but do we handle the finances? If let's say, when my father passes away, we know going right away, this is what happens. We know what money's going, where we know where every bank account is. We know where every single thing he has is where we're not all just spinning our wheels, looking for, uh, and waiting for a will to be open, to know who gets what, uh, because that can be very difficult. And a lot of times when we think about handing down an inheritance or something, there might not be anything. In fact, the children might be faced with having to pay for expenses as far as services and burials and all those kinds of things. And then parents debt and mortgages on their houses and trying to keep their house. So they don't lose it to the bank. So the dis the, it can be very, very messy.

Felipe Arevalo 17:44

So I think you touched on a good point there where, where there's a difference, the, the word sandwich generation and the club sandwich and, and all the different sandwiches. It matters how well the sandwich is put together.

Chase Peckham 17:55

Yes.

Felipe Arevalo 17:55

And maybe you're in a position where the, the sandwich, if maybe you don't want part of it, which is one thing altogether. But if you do want be part of it, um, and, and, and maybe you're looking to be the person who organizes this going forward, uh, sorry. We're keeping with the analogy of the sandwich here.

Chase Peckham 18:12

Right

Felipe Arevalo 18:12

The whole thing is about sandwich.

Chase Peckham 18:14

It's just making everybody hungry.

Felipe Arevalo 18:15

Right? So you, you've got, we got people like listening in their car, driving to the nearest sandwich shop. Uh, but<laugh>, it's something,

Chase Peckham 18:23

Why am I feeling like a sandwich right now?

Felipe Arevalo 18:25

Exactly.<laugh> maybe the sandwich that you're in isn't what you would want it to you be. So you can take steps to make it so that when you're the top layer of the sandwich and people are maybe taking care of you financially, you've put'em in a better situation. Maybe you're the one who starts building this sandwich up a little bit better for future generations. And that's the thing with creating the generational wealth. Sometimes it's not there when you get there,

Chase Peckham 18:52

Right.

Felipe Arevalo 18:52

And sometimes maybe you are the one who starts building that. Whether it's something that you do knowingly, maybe you don't do it knowingly at first, but sometimes people, um, maybe they're not in that situation where they're very organized and it's you're job. If you decide to take it on to start organizing the pieces and putting that sandwich together in a better way.

Chase Peckham 19:17

So breaking a cycle, so to speak. So the same sandwiches is being built.

Felipe Arevalo 19:20

So you break that sandwich. So it's not the sandwich that my eight year old makes, um, you know, that, that you look at and you're like, that's what you made. Okay? Whatever you're gonna eat it, not, not me. Um, and, and, and maybe you start taking those pieces. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying it's gonna be, you know, in inexpensive and not time consuming and all that by any means, but maybe you're the one who starts putting this sandwich back together in a better way, or you start organizing it. So that future generations have a much more organized sandwich to start with. And so that maybe when you're at the top level being taken care of by the people younger than you you've put certain things in place, so that it's more organized for those future generations.

Chase Peckham 20:09

Yeah. I mean, my parents started planning for the sandwich, which, and started adding layers of lettuce and onion and tomato early on in our lives, uh, basically paying for, you know, and spelling out how, if something happens to mom and I, uh, you know, we're on vacation and there's, you know, a God awful accident and, and we're both gone. This is what you do. This is where everything is, is my parents were very, they were for different reasons. They were very planned out to avoid my brother and I having to take care of them. Right. My dad didn't want to be a part of a sandwich where as my dad has gotten older now, and he's still on his own, but my mother has passed my brother. And I would both very take him in, in a second if something happened, right. We wouldn't even think twice of being of, of taking him in yet in his mind, I'm taking care of myself. I don't want to be a part of this sandwich yet. Um, I like to be the, the potato chips on the side. I love to come to visit. I like being a support unit. I love coming to watch the kids play sports and stuff, but I don't want you taking care of me yet, yet we would. And he knows. And he's worried about that. He gets worried, like if I start losing my memory, or if I start not being able to take care of myself, this is what I, I don't want you guys taking me in and taking care of me. I want you to put me here. Um, so that's how down to the planning, he is. Not all of us are like that.

Felipe Arevalo 21:33

My grandpa would live with my parents, live with my uncles. And then, but for the most part, he was on his own. He'd live on his own most of the time and, and do his own thing. Um, it, it was just, he had everything organized. He, and he didn't want to be that burden, um, on the sandwich. Uh, so, so some people just are like that and, and they want to be part of it, but in their own little way,

Chase Peckham 21:57

In their own way.

Felipe Arevalo 21:57

And that's okay, everyone's gonna be different.

Chase Peckham 22:00

That's exactly right. There is no, this, the discussion, the whole sandwich generation is just so interesting that you don't have to there's no wrong way.

Felipe Arevalo 22:08

There's unfortunate situations where for one reason or another health or financial, or otherwise someone feels like they're stuck in the sandwich and the sandwich isn't put together well, and that causes the financial stress. And that causes the financial hardships for that individual. Who's kind of holding it all together,

Chase Peckham 22:26

Right.

Felipe Arevalo 22:26

Whether they want to or not, but it wasn't it properly prepared. And, and that's when it, I think the term sandwich generation.

Chase Peckham 22:32

That's where the language that's where came from. One hundred percent.

Felipe Arevalo 22:33

Really gets a bad, or it, it could be a negative term.

Chase Peckham 22:37

And a negative term.

Felipe Arevalo 22:37

It could be a positive and a negative. So if someone's stuck in that tough, not put together sandwich, whether they want to hold it together or not, but they are the one holding it together that could be incredibly frustrating and stressful. If they're trying to pull finances and they're trying to do their own thing, to make sure that they're not a burden to their kids and their grandkids, but they're too busy just trying to keep the whole thing together by taking care of their parents or grandparents. And then that makes it that's when it really, the language generation can really take an negative toll. And, you know, it is something where that's tough. I've done a lot of different things within the, the SDFLC. And before I, I used to do the, the, on the DebtWave side of things. Um, I, I would call creditors, uh, it was a creditor liaison and, and it was something where there's a certain creditor. I'm not gonna call'em out. Um, where you, if you were in our debt management program and you had a hardship, you can call up us, call up for the client and say, this client is going through a financial hardship. And can you lower their payments depending on a whole bunch of different factors. And I don't remember them all anymore, cause this was 10, 11 years ago. Um, they may be able to lower the payment.

Chase Peckham 23:53

Right.

Felipe Arevalo 23:54

I do remember one specific time where I called spoke to this creditor and they're like, so what's the hardship? Well, the hardship is they're taking care of their parents. And their response was, well, that's a choice. That's not really a hardship. They decided to do that. And that's not a, a valid hardship reason.

Chase Peckham 24:15

Wow.

Felipe Arevalo 24:17

And I was sitting there. I was like, wow. Okay then, well, I have no comeback here. That's your rules.

Chase Peckham 24:22

Well I mean

Felipe Arevalo 24:22

You make up your rules for whatever you want.

Chase Peckham 24:24

I mean, they're not, wrong but they're not very compassionate.

Felipe Arevalo 24:27

Have a great day? Right.<laugh> okay. Well, thanks for your time. Have a great day. And, and, and, but, you know, it depends on the situation where yes, technically that's a choice, but who's not going to, in my opinion, this is just my personal opinion. It's not really an option. Um, you know, it is something where, and I think you feel the same way where if your dad needed your help, it wouldn't really be an option. It would just be something that you take on. Um, so it was just interesting that sometimes I guess, technically it is an option. Um, it's just an option. Some people are more, more inclined to jump at.

Chase Peckham 25:11

Right.

Felipe Arevalo 25:11

And, and, and some people are more inclined to shy away from. Um, so it was just, I remember that story and I was like, man, that was brutal.

Chase Peckham 25:22

Yeah. And Yes. And we see it, uh, a, um, with what we do, um, you know, there's taking care of parents, parents that, um, maybe come down ill and another, in fact, our, our latest Boost for Our Heroes winner, um, you know, she took on a giant responsibility of having to move across the country. Uh, and our, and she's a part of the us, uh, Navy and had,

Felipe Arevalo 25:47

I think it was the Marine Corps.

Chase Peckham 25:48

Marine Corps That, yeah, that's right.

Felipe Arevalo 25:51

And they agreed with her.

Chase Peckham 25:51

Department of the Navy with her. Uh, they did, and they were compassionate and said, look, we're gonna help you. You, we're gonna, we're gonna move you to San Diego and take care of your mom. She's ill. And, you know, we, we appreciate doing that. So there, that is, I mean, that's pretty awesome of our Marine Corps to say<affirmative> yes,

Felipe Arevalo 26:09

Yeah.

Chase Peckham 26:09

Go take.

Felipe Arevalo 26:10

You need to be there, go be there.

Chase Peckham 26:11

Right.

Felipe Arevalo 26:12

Right. And, and it's something where, to them, apparently it's not really a choice. It's something that you should do, which is great. And, and it helps that we have quite the presence of every branch or at least the Marine in the Navy here in San Diego. Um, so, you know, it made it a little easier geographically, but yeah. They moved her. Um, so

Chase Peckham 26:35

That's pretty awesome.

Felipe Arevalo 26:37

Yeah. It, but the sandwich can be burdensome burden, uh, burdensome, it can cause a burden,

Chase Peckham 26:45

There you go.

Felipe Arevalo 26:46

Um, or it can be mutually beneficial to all parties involved.

Chase Peckham 26:52

Absolutely.

Felipe Arevalo 26:53

It's just a matter of how well it's put together and what life throws at them.

Chase Peckham 26:57

In my opinion family is family. Yeah. I mean, and if, if everybody's given, you know, they're doing the best they can. I mean, obviously, are you gonna care of a brother who, or, or somebody that just completely.

Felipe Arevalo 27:08

Isn't putting in the effort.

Chase Peckham 27:09

Right. They're not working at it. I mean, we had this discussion before we got online, uh, and talking about this that, you know, with my chil, with my children, there's a chance that they're gonna go through college. Uh, you know, we hope they go to college, but the plan is if they go to college, they might come back and not know exactly what they're doing yet and, or may need time in between. So if they come to me with a business plan of some kind and say, dad, this is the, what I'm trying to do. This is the, the steps I'm going to try to take. I'll be more apt to say yes, come to, and I'll help pay the bills. Right. You can live here and, and you will give you every op every opportunity to do what it is that you wanna do to become successful in life.

Felipe Arevalo 27:55

Right.

Chase Peckham 27:56

But I'm not gonna let him come back. And I hate to throw video games on it, but I'm not gonna let him just sit and come back from school. And I don't know what I wanna do yet. And play video games for four hours a day and.

Felipe Arevalo 28:07

Right.

Chase Peckham 28:08

It's just not gonna happen. You know, they, they have, you have to take responsibility for yourself at a certain time. So now we're talking about that kind of the, I, I don't know what you call it, but what you call that a bottomless sandwich where the kid comes back, the boomerang generation, we talked about, that's something where I, I, I want to help my child if they want to help themselves.

Felipe Arevalo 28:29

Right.

Chase Peckham 28:29

But there's, so there's gotta be a business plan of some kind or a game plan, so to speak, uh, for what they want to do. I'm not gonna just sit here and go, well, they're my son or my daughter. So I'm just gonna let'em live at home as long as they want, not.

Felipe Arevalo 28:42

Yeah.

Chase Peckham 28:43

Figure, you know, pay for their, because that's not doing them any favors either.

Felipe Arevalo 28:48

Well, no, if you're trying to help the generation below you, you do have to add some kind of, you're trying to help out

Chase Peckham 28:54

I'll give you a handout. You're right,

Felipe Arevalo 28:56

Right. There's gotta be some kind of responsibility. And maybe you put a little pressure on that lower generation to, you gotta pull your weight. Especially if they're adults.

Chase Peckham 29:06

Absolutely.

Felipe Arevalo 29:06

It always is so difficult. When I talk to people and I do a budget and, and they say, okay, how many kids? You got two. Okay. Whatever. And then you're going through it. And you're like, how old are your kids? Oh, they're like 21 and 23. And they're like, okay. So what part do they help you out? You know, do, are they in school? Are they no. And I need to get a three bedroom because I can't my husband and I can't go do a one bedroom because we got our two kids with, so I don't know how I'm gonna make the budget work. And you're sitting there and.

Chase Peckham 29:39

The kids should help out.

Felipe Arevalo 29:39

Here's, how you make the budget work? The kid should help out. Or you should get a one bedroom and the kid should figure it out on their own.

Chase Peckham 29:45

There you go.

Felipe Arevalo 29:46

Um, but, and, and it's,

Chase Peckham 29:49

Sometimes parents don't wanna hear that though. They feel like.

Felipe Arevalo 29:51

They don't.

Chase Peckham 29:51

That cultural guilt, or it just within their own, the way they believe that they're responsible for their children, no matter how old they are.

Felipe Arevalo 29:59

Right. And it's something where, unless there's a reason for it, medical condition or something like that.

Chase Peckham 30:06

Right.

Felipe Arevalo 30:07

Um, you know, then, then it's a different story, but if they're able to go do whatever it is, have them contribute or, or, you know, you're going to the expense. Why are you paying that much for cell phone? Oh, it's my, and I pay for my son and daughters and, and I pay for this. And you're sitting there like, you're$400 short on your budget every month. Why don't you just at least have your kids contribute?

Chase Peckham 30:31

Yes and they can make that up correct.

Felipe Arevalo 30:32

$400 every month. And at least bring you back have them contribute$400 each and bring you into the positive$400. So you're not falling into debt so that you're not stressing over the finances when they're just living for free.

Chase Peckham 30:47

But then there's also that, that idea of feeling embarrassed, like, or feeling the stresses and the, um, responsibilities of taking care of your child. And you don't wanna let'em know, you know, a lot of times we'll get angry when we hear about this, but that person didn't have this discussion with their kids. The kids don't know that they're struggling now, should they look at it? Should they, should they take, you know, dig a little deeper and say, gosh, the, the electricity got turned off last month, maybe mom and dad are struggling.

Felipe Arevalo 31:25

I see those past do bills on the, on the counter or whatever it is.

Chase Peckham 31:28

Of course they can. But if that person is keeping it quiet because they don't want their kids to worry about it, they're not doing themselves any favors.

Felipe Arevalo 31:37

Right. And, and it is something where it, it, again, maybe the sandwich just needs sit down and have a conversation.<laugh> an open conversation with all the different layers so that everyone knows what their expectations are.

Chase Peckham 31:51

Yes.

Felipe Arevalo 31:52

For each other and, you know, for themselves and, and just kind of how it can all work together better.

Chase Peckham 32:00

Yes.

Felipe Arevalo 32:00

Um, and, and how they can make it work so that it it's a good sandwich situation, as opposed to that stressful hardship. One, which sometimes through no fault of anyone's life happens.

Chase Peckham 32:12

Right.

Felipe Arevalo 32:12

And then, and then that happens. Um, but you gotta try and do everything you can to kind of put your sandwich together better.

Chase Peckham 32:18

Absolutely.

Felipe Arevalo 32:19

If you wanna be part of a sandwich, some people don't want to be.

Chase Peckham 32:20

And all of us Are gonna fall into this category at some point in our lives some way or another it's discussions that my wife and I have with her brother and about my mother-in-law, um, and you know, with my father, uh, we all have to discuss these things. And the sooner that you're prepared for it, the better it's going to turn out for everyone.

Felipe Arevalo 32:41

Right.

Chase Peckham 32:42

So it's just, it, it, it's a tough, it's a tough thing, but as long as you're,

Felipe Arevalo 32:45

And like we said, each, each sandwich is different. I mean, your sandwich situation, not necessarily yours, but any individual sandwich situation might be, Hey, after work every day, I stop by talk to mom and dad for 30 minutes on the way home, you know, cause they're down the street just to make sure they're okay.

Chase Peckham 33:00

Well, Phil, I can just tell you that and that you have a lot more sandwiches in your family than, than Kerrie and I.

Felipe Arevalo 33:07

Than you do.

Chase Peckham 33:08

Yeah. We are down we're we're we are down to, uh, our, our, our family sandwiches are much less, uh,

Felipe Arevalo 33:16

Much less complicated.

Chase Peckham 33:17

Than yours. Yeah. You gotta a lot more, uh, ingredients for your sandwiches than we do at this point, but it's still for all of us, it's a different level of stress because it's the emotional and, uh, financial side of it.

Felipe Arevalo 33:31

Yeah. And it could be a positive and a negative and a little bit of between a little bit each, you know, it can change over time. So, you know, I, I need to go get a sandwich now.

Chase Peckham 33:44

Yeah. It's about time to go get a sandwich and we'd like to thank all of you for, for listening today. Uh, please share this episode, uh, like it, download it, uh, and pass the word. We'll see you next time