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The Power of Text Sets with Freddy Hiebert

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Bonus Episode

In this episode, Melissa and Lori sit down with Freddy Hiebert, founder of Text Project, to dive deep into the critical role texts play in reading instruction. They explore how the types of texts provided to students not only shape their reading practice but also influence their self-perception as readers.

Freddy shares her expertise on understanding text features and the vital role of repetition in vocabulary acquisition. The conversation highlights how background knowledge supports comprehension and the thoughtful development of decodable texts to support early readers.

They also discuss exciting advancements like the use of AI for generating reading materials and the importance of designing engaging, relevant texts for middle and high school students.

Freddy unpacks the significance of morphological families, polysemy, and semantic mapping, stressing how teachers must grasp these complexities to support deeper word learning and understanding. She underscores the importance of offering students a diverse “text diet” to build vocabulary and comprehension skills.

Listeners will come away with fresh insights on creating engaging texts for diverse learners and innovative strategies for vocabulary teaching that combine context, repetition, and thoughtful text design.

Visit TextProject.org for more info. 


We answer your questions about teaching reading in The Literacy 50-A Q&A Handbook for Teachers: Real-World Answers to Questions About Reading That Keep You Up at Night.

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Lori:

In today's episode we're talking to Freddie Hebert about the function of text sets, which are curated collections of text that support decoding vocabulary and building knowledge.

Melissa:

Whether you're working with early learners or older readers, text sets are a game changer for comprehension instruction.

Lori:

Hi teacher friends. I'm Lori and I'm Melissa. We are two educators who want the best for all kids, and we know you do too.

Melissa:

We worked together in Baltimore when the district adopted a new literacy curriculum.

Lori:

We realized there was so much more to learn about how to teach reading and writing.

Melissa:

Lori, and I can't wait to keep learning with you today and writing, lori, and I can't wait to keep learning with you today.

Lori:

Hi, freddie, welcome to the podcast. We cannot wait to talk texts with you today.

Freddy Hiebert:

Well, I've been waiting a long time to talk to you, and I'm just delighted to be here.

Lori:

We've been waiting to talk to you too. I know I was going to say you've been on our list for a really long time, and every time I feel like you're one of those people who were like, well, she could talk about this, and then she could talk about this or she could talk about that, and then we ended up not asking you until now. So we're so thrilled that you're finally here. So you want to talk about Pilates, right I do?

Melissa:

I want to talk about everything and anything with you. I want to talk about everything and anything with you. Well, actually, what we've been thinking about lately is texts so different types of texts, and you know specifically different readers at different stages of learning to read and need different types of texts, and you are the founder of Text Project, so a website that's completely focused on texts, and we really thought this is it right.

Freddy Hiebert:

This is when we call up Freddie, because she knows all about texts text can be a lot of different kinds of things, but to read involves a text, and what I see in the reading professional development landscape is just a lot on strategies and not as much on text.

Freddy Hiebert:

And it turns out that the texts we give our kids define the kind of practices practicing they get. So whatever the text is that you give a kid, it defines what the task is for them. It also begins to define their views of themselves like I can do this or I can't do this, like I can do this or I can't do this. So really a text is central to what we do as teachers of reading, and sometimes it might seem, because texts are really other than the teacher in the classroom. Building texts are one of the most expensive parts of the whole reading equation right in instruction, and so sometimes we're given texts as teachers and we don't quite know what we should do with them. But what we've been doing at Text Project is working hard to give everybody extra text, extra text. So whatever you've been given, we give you some text that I regard to be there to give the reading volume to kids, because to get good at this active reading you actually have to do a whole lot of it.

Melissa:

Yeah, and I'm thinking too about I'm so glad you said that about the text, because thinking back to my early years of teaching, when I wasn't giving any texts and I had to, like, root around in closets to find whatever I could, and it was just whatever was there and I, you know, I don't even think I knew at that time how important the texts were, because I was just looking for something, anything we could read. But it really does make so much sense, like that is the key is what the texts are in front of our students, and because texts are such a visible part and such a big part like for districts and states to pay for.

Freddy Hiebert:

It turns out that texts become one of the first places where there are mandates and policies of what you can use in a classroom. So we go from one kind of text to another text, to another kind of text and I don't think we do enough conversation and professional development about what the features of texts are and what it is that a kid needs to be able to do to be successful with a particular text. So that's always how I look at a text. So what would you need to be able to do to read this text on cats? You know I love cats or whatever cats. You know I love cats or whatever you know? What would you need to know about linguistics? You know the letter. Sound correspondence is to be able to read it. Or what would you need to know about? You know how texts work? So yeah, I think we actually. You know there's a lot of conversation about what I wasn't taught. There's a lot of conversation about what I wasn't taught you know, and reading is pretty complicated. So to cover it all is sometimes hard and sometimes we do cover it and sometimes people forget. But my point is that I don't think we talk a lot about what the underlying requirements are for reading texts at different levels. So, for example, if we were having a conversation as people who teach English as a second language and those are folks who work with typically young adults who are hoping to go to English-speaking countries for baccalaureate degrees or, you know, to get good at English for job opportunities In that field, there's a really defined model of text. So they're recognizing. You know we talk about decoding thresholds, but there's something that also occurs and that's a vocabulary threshold. So it turns out that all words aren't equal in the English language, that some words do the heavy lifting by far and other words are really necessary, but they occur pretty occasionally. Well, in the English, as a Second Language model, they talk a lot about the vocabulary threshold and that's something that in the last 30 years in American reading instruction, we've really dropped the ball in terms of having a clear model of text.

Freddy Hiebert:

We do now with decodables, but then the question is, what actually should define a decodable? So we have a model underlying decodables at this point that is called the lesson to text match and what that basically is saying is if a letter sound correspondence has been taught in a lesson in the teacher's manual, then it matches to a word in the text and then words with that letter sound correspondence are free in a sense. You can put them in. But how many times do you have to see certain patterns? You know all patterns aren't as equal in terms of being learned and furthermore, we also know that for young kids well, for adults too learning concrete words happens a lot faster than learning abstract words. So you know, I mean, there's something about the design of decodables that sometimes we haven't talked about too. I mean, should there be some repetition of words? Right now, there are just a lot of exemplars of particular patterns, but not necessarily particular words repeated with that pattern.

Freddy Hiebert:

And I find my pandemic project has been to attempt to learn my native language, which is German. You would probably think that with a name like Alfreda Hildegard that I would have had some German background. But one of the things that I've really learned and you know, because it's German and I had German, you know I heard German in my home when I was a little one, but because German forms such an important part of our English, the basic words in English, you know I've got some real advantages. Plus, I'm a reader of English, right. But it turns out that single word learning just doesn't happen a lot. It helps to see some words. I'm not just saying you memorize those words, but I'm just saying, once you've figured out a word and said it when you're reading a text, it's really nice if they give you another chance to actually try out your hypothesis again and be successful and somebody be able to go, wow, way to go. You know, you've got this nailed.

Melissa:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. My son is just starting to read those decodable texts and you know he's like can I just read the same one again? I'm wondering if you can. I'm curious about the texts on Text Project and if you could just give us a big overview of those texts. And how are they connected to research? What did you specifically want to add to those texts that you put on there?

Freddy Hiebert:

Well, thank you for giving me a chance to describe what my life's work is. So I've been doing research on texts for a while and the texts at Text Project. There are texts at three different levels and each level of text represents a line of research. Now, one thing that's common across all the texts is a model of text that is basically looking to have kids have some repetition with words and also opportunities with, at the lower levels, patterns that occur a lot in words letter sound patterns, morphological patterns as we move along. So that's a really, really important part. But what's even more important, that draws everything together is all the texts are in sets.

Freddy Hiebert:

And why would I do that? Well, I'm really interested in developing background knowledge. Become great readers, good readers or not very good readers? A lot of it can depend on schools, for particular groups of kids, and for those kids, background knowledge is as compelling as the linguistic knowledge that they need. So I want texts that provide background knowledge always. And it turns out, you know, one of the things I discovered very early on in my research is that it makes a lot more sense to have words repeated in an informational text than in a narrative. There's certain words you know about 94% of the words in all texts come from the same small group of words about 2,500 morphological families. But my point is that if you're writing about, let's say, basketball, about pivoting, you're going to repeat that term In a story. A narrative writer doesn't repeat the same words to describe their characters, traits or dispositions or their movement.

Lori:

I'm so glad you gave an example, Freddie, because I was going to ask you for that, but you just did that and that helped me clarify it so much. You're so right.

Melissa:

And what a good one, right? Because in a narrative, when someone pivots, they're not going to keep pivoting, right? They've already done that Exactly.

Freddy Hiebert:

So it actually turns out and you know I started all of this long before AI, but now, with my collaborators on AI, I can generate even more text and it turns out that AI is fabulous in creating appropriate informational text. I mean, provided you tell your AI the right thing. Why not stories? Well, it turns out that a lot of children's books, narrative books, are heavily influenced by the illustrations and the artists and the writers of children's books haven't released a copyright, so they're not available on the internet for AI to harvest them. So it turns out right now that might change. You know, things might get different, but right now narrative stories can be very derivative and repetitive and, quite frankly, boring. That's not the case with informational text, you know. So I can ask. I'll tell you what I'm working on right now. I'm working on a little series, because I also do research on vocabulary.

Lori:

I know, I was curious when you were going to mention that, and vocabulary is really right.

Freddy Hiebert:

What makes text? Pretty much it relates to the topic and that's what makes text, you know, compelling or challenging or not. And I'm doing a little series for beginning readers on polysemy. Although I'm not calling it that, I'm describing it as same and not the same. So, for example, bark and bark you know there's dog barks, there's bark on a tree and I can get great pictures of a dog barking, you know, hanging onto the bark of a tree and barking, obviously not barking at the bark but barking at something up there in the tree.

Freddy Hiebert:

I'm into informational text because I'm really concerned with automaticity. I think that's a major thing, that American kids, if you don't read enough, you don't become automatic with those 2,500 morphological families. And that should actually be another conversation we have, which would be about vocabulary. So I'm not going to get into the families too much, but it's the common words that make up stories and also informational text. But I also want to point out that it's information so that you can repeat words. That makes sense. And it's also text in sets. And why would I do that? Well, I want kids to build a schemata, I want them to build some background knowledge, but at the same time I want to repeat words in different contexts. But at the same time, I want to repeat words in different contexts and research is showing that that's really important that you see a word in a very different contextual and syntactic situation. That was really a major problem with level text is that often kids just saw a word in the same syntactic construction, right.

Freddy Hiebert:

And so what I've done is these informational texts. So if I have four texts on snakes, for example, for beginning readers, or four texts on different kinds of trees, I can repeat the words trees or cones or scales you know, or shape or size, or you know bones in terms of snakes not bones of trees but bones of snakes and I can keep you know repeating those and kids can see them in different contexts. And again, it's a matter of feeling some success. You know I transferred this knowledge. You know, and it's not a word that only sits in this one place. You know I can use some other place. So does that give you an idea? So the thing about our text is, each layer of text comes from a line of research that I've done, but all of the texts are around information and all the texts are in sets. When kids know a few key words on an informational topic, even if those words aren't necessarily in a text. They're going to do better at comprehending that content, you know, because they've built some kind of an anchor network.

Melissa:

And you said just a few key words.

Freddy Hiebert:

Yeah, like, maybe on something like habitat. You know you don't have to know every single word that might show up, but if you know some words around that topic, like ecosystems, you know that that's going to really help you. I study what features of texts ensure that kids are going to be successful with it and what makes a text hard.

Lori:

Freddie, I'm wondering if you gave a really great example about those beginning texts right that you're sharing, that they have consistent patterns. They have this really interesting content and important vocabulary that's connected in these text sets. Can you tell us a little bit about the middle grade texts and like the maybe middle to high school texts, and how they're different and what they include?

Freddy Hiebert:

I'm incredibly interested in statistical learning. Okay that the number of opportunities you've had to see a word, including a different context, is really going to influence you. So the problem that we have with our kids isn't that they can't figure out words, eventually it's how long it takes them because they haven't seen patterns. You know the patterns in the words and the words themselves, you know. So I did a lot of work on what words were important. You know like I started out by taking all the NAEP tests, the National Assessment of Educational Progress, grade four tests, and I said what would you need to know to be successful with this? And then I took all this as any state test I could find and I did the same thing and that's where I came up with there are these 2,500 morphological families. They encompass about 6,000 words because it's a family right, it's like helpful helper, unhelpful like that.

Freddy Hiebert:

And then I started constructing texts and so topic reads for the middle grades at Text Project actually walks you through some steps. So it starts out like if a kid it has six levels, not like level, like the Fontas and Pinnell levels that you just would throw books down the stairs and see where they land. But the first, the level A, were texts that had the most 300 most frequent words or most frequent families, and there were always words that were rare on that topic. So I'm not saying they were like Dick and Jane books. They're books like on sports and fashion and anime and jazz. They're books on things that are worth middle graders knowing about, knowing about.

Freddy Hiebert:

So I moved up from the 300 most frequent words all the way up to the 2,500 morphological families. So there are about what there are, I don't know 16 different topics, something like that per level, four texts per topic. And again I want to repeat, I'm not generating instructional programs. I'm generating material for teachers to have access to, to give their kids additional reading opportunities. I'm not somebody who writes, you know, copious curriculum guides. I'm that, just isn't me.

Melissa:

And I was going to say too this is not like you would give a student a test and they are level A. So now you're going to give them the level A books that are on yours. You're saying you labeled them as level A, b, c because they very specifically increase in the number of words. That are probably many things.

Freddy Hiebert:

They increase along the way, and there actually is an assessment on TextProject to establish where you should put kids. And I also do research with my wonderful colleagues at Stanford on ROAR, r-o-a-r. Okay, and they've been pilot testing a word it's called the core vocabulary assessment. So that vocabulary assessment is actually going to help you pinpoint also what kids need to, where they need to be. So, yeah, you don't forever then see these texts. I want to just be really clear that these are texts for particular opportunities. Do I think they're great for summer reading? We actually do have a program called Summer Reads that are based around the same ideas, around topics that you know might be interesting, like summer holidays or, you know, summer sports, things like that. Okay, so you know you're not staying in level A for the rest of your life. We could have another session on just talking about why we kept thinking we could do that for so long. Yeah, I never thought we could do it or should do it, but that's a whole nother story, okay, so in the high school we've just that's where I started and we've got uh, we've got another series called FYI. Now those are single texts to get background knowledge for particular books. Okay, like, I was really always fascinated. There are a lot of stories in American history about the red coats and so I get fascinated, like why would they wear red coats? That just doesn't seem like an advantage when you're on a battlefield. So I did background knowledge on that, I mean. So I've done some that are just single text but they're clustered around topics. There's also one called stories of words, okay, where we look at the history like how did we come up with?

Freddy Hiebert:

When you get a new invention, where do the words come from? You know, like, does somebody sit there and go? We'll call this this. Well, typically what we do is we actually use the words we already have and give them new meaning. Or we put new words together, like space suit or astronaut. You know we'll take Greek words often and that helps us a lot. But we'll take existing words and give them new meanings, like the word mouse. You know we've given that word a whole new meaning. So what I'm saying is all the texts in the middle grades, all of them are around this model that you have to have additional practice with those 2,500 morphological families if you're going to be a good reader. So those morphological families will get you to about 94, 95% of the text, but then you have to have enough bandwidth left to figure out additional words. That's where you use your morphology, your decoding and so on, but without automaticity at a certain point you're dead in the water, freddie.

Lori:

I know if I was a listener right now I would be so curious about these words that are going to get us to this like 94% automaticity here that I really need to know. Can you help teachers understand where they should start with these words? I know you said you've done some work. How do we get these words? How do we know what to do if we're listening?

Freddy Hiebert:

Well, I've been really reluctant to put out a list of the 2,500 morphological families, why? It actually breaks my heart when I hear about little first graders or kindergartner kids bringing home parts of the Dolch list and having to learn words in isolation Flashcards, these words. The thing about families is you have to start developing a sense of a family and you also have to develop sense of polysemy, which means multiple meanings of words. So the more frequent a word except for the and of, the more meanings it's likely to have, for example, a word like S-E-T. Okay, so I've been reluctant to give the families, but you know what I have done reluctant to give the families, but you know what I have done. I have semantic maps of all 2,500 morphological families in something called the Core Vocabulary Project so you can learn about the words.

Freddy Hiebert:

And I also don't want to get teachers like into the thing, like they go from word one to word two, to word three, to word four, to word five. That's not what I'm saying. A lot of the words they're words that in the main you're going to find in text, but the thing that we haven't been doing is attending to what percentage of the other words are there in text and are they more than five or six percent? And are they more than five or six percent? And as a teacher, I mean this is something you should be taught, I think in teacher ed is to be able to look at a text and to be able to say, in this text there are some pretty rare words.

Freddy Hiebert:

Okay, like you know, if you see the word ripple, there are a lot of really strange Anglo-Saxon verbs like shun or ripple or, you know, spun. Ok, there are a lot of those, and it's not that you can't use decoding with some of that, but as a teacher I need to be able to look at it and to say, for example, I'm working on this piece on pivoting in basketball and you know, when I look at the text I can tell you that offense and defense are important words, an intentional foul is important. Okay, those would be things that I might want to focus on. The rest of the words, you can take a look to see. You'll know whether they're words that are often in text. So, like, a word like pivot isn't going to be in text a lot with pivot.

Lori:

Yes, all those words you mentioned are really, really important. There's also the word, a word that might show up, that is very decodable and also really like I think might have multiple meanings. If we're saying pick right, so set a pick I don't know if you talk, if you talk about that at all in basketball, but I mean, I think that that's something that is like, oh, if, if I'm a kid reading it, just the whole phrase right. Like you said, set is a word that might have multiple meanings. Pick has multiple meanings and that phrase together means something very specific for that sport and that's something to really take into consideration as the teacher as well. Yeah, exactly.

Freddy Hiebert:

What I've maintained for a long time is that we've never treated the systems that make up English as something to actually address in our vocabulary instruction. By that I don't mean like you have to memorize that you know we've got a Greek, french and Anglo-Saxon. I'm not meaning that. I'm meaning we haven't talked to kids about the differences in how we build words, and also that a lot of words in English are polysemous, and that's a really important idea. That's why I'm writing this little series for the little guys right, like Bark and Bark and Row and Row, because rows is something they probably you know, they know about ROW. So so yeah, I'm really reluctant to put out a list. You know, I could just imagine someday. I mean, it would just be so sad for me if my legacy was the Freddie list.

Lori:

I get that. So what you're saying is like this the schema of these words matter and the multiple meanings matter, and we all know that, right Cause we, just as adults, we have encountered that so much and we've seen students be confused. And I hear you. I think that's. That's really noble. I love that you're willing to stand strong there.

Freddy Hiebert:

Okay, let's get to high school. I think we still have an issue and I'm starting to write some more texts now around the automaticity issue for high school. That's where these basketball texts come in. And you know I have another one that I like a lot. I have a series called Teen Reads and that all of those teen reads are built on the model of the 2,500 most frequent words and typically there are two words per hundred in all the stuff I write. That are rare words and those rare words are always repeated.

Freddy Hiebert:

So if you've spent time figuring it out, you get another opportunity. But again, the texts help you with automaticity. But in the case of high school kids, we've got to attend to their sense of relevance and interest. If you start with text from the get-go, that's too hard. That moves at a pace for kids who come to school with a fair amount of literacy. You've gone for what by the time you're in high school, how many days have you gone to this place where you're not very successful? And does it help to just see texts where you can't read, like maybe where you're 85 to 90 accurate? Well, what happens? We're seeing large numbers of teachers who are actually reading the text for the kids and the research will show that the teachers are getting better at reading out loud. But I'm dubious that that's you know. I mean, it can help kids learn some things, but it's not going to make them independent readers, and that my aim is. I want to give kids an opportunity. These aren't dumbed down texts. None of these are dumbed down texts.

Lori:

No, I mean I would read them. They're engaging and they're very respectful to each age group that you're targeting. And I, yeah, and I really think that I mean I plan to use them with my own child this summer. You know that I think that they're really helpful, they're engaging and they're really useful.

Lori:

Like I'm thinking, if I'm a teacher listening and I'm a classroom teacher and I've been given a curriculum and I do have these, you know, complex or difficult texts that I need to engage with my students in a tier one curriculum, I'm still thinking that these texts have so much use and value because I can align topics right so I can extend text, set knowledge with a volume of reading about a topic. I'm thinking you know, first grade students are learning about animals or animal habitats and science. Those snake books are perfect, right, Pull those on out and snake texts are perfect, I should say, and I think that there are so many opportunities to be creative here with what you've done, whether or not you have, you know, texts already included in your curriculum or you're, you know, potentially just looking for maybe some additional lessons in small group to maybe practice fluency, maybe practice automaticity. So I don't know. I'm wondering if you can react to that a little bit, freddie. Well, the intent.

Freddy Hiebert:

I mean, when you look at a bio of me, I'm I'm interested in the vocabulary and how it impacts fluency and how it grows kids' background knowledge. And if you came in and they just kept giving you hard text, you know you need some respite. You need somebody who understands that. You know you have to have an opportunity to have something you can read and remember. We're always putting in rare words, we're always putting in topics that I think are relevant for kids and, being fairly immature myself, I guess I kind of pick things that and I do a lot of research to figure out what's appropriate. I do a lot of research.

Melissa:

I just I really love this idea of a text diet. I think we talk about it. I think we in education often are like, okay, decodable texts are like the thing now, right. So then some people take that the whole way the other way and say, like Some people take that the whole way the other way and say like all they should be reading is decodable texts in K1, maybe even second grade, right, and we know that that's not the case and especially they need to be hearing read-alouds of really rich texts. So they're getting that vocabulary and, you know, chances to read other authentic texts as they're ready for them. So it makes a lot of sense to me in K-2 world.

Melissa:

I'm really glad you're bringing this up because I do think, like you said, it often is like, okay, well, once they've learned to decode, then it's complex text and, like you said, I mean, if they're not where they need to be for reading, that can be daunting for them. So how do we support students to be able to read those texts? And I'm hearing what you're saying is like your texts are examples of texts that students would be able to read, other texts where they feel successful, learn new vocabulary that's going to help them when they get those complex texts.

Freddy Hiebert:

One of the things that I'm adamant about in this work is that we do a lot of semantic mapping, where kids get to see the knowledge that they're building. And in the book that I'm writing right now I actually illustrate semantic mapping with decodable text. And you know I have written about because Linnea Erie, who was the architect of the Epidemic Awareness and Phonics part of the National Reading Panel, she used a text, a set of texts called ready readers that were basically level texts, and one of my graduate students also used those texts and ordered them according to a curriculum. So what I've been arguing is that you know, don't throw away those books. Use them topically around certain common patterns in those books. Those books, if they're English words, they're going to be some phonetically regular words. You just have to find them and put it topically right.

Lori:

I'm so glad to hear you say that, Freddie, because that's how, when Melissa and I. That's an idea that Melissa and I had and shared it in our book as well. So it's nice to hear you say that we're on the right track. It's always nice to hear an esteemed person share that we're on the right track.

Freddy Hiebert:

Well, it's not just that you're on the right track. There's actually evidence. So a graduate student at University of Connecticut and this is the papers in Reading Research Quarterly looked at interventions that use decodable text and use level text this is a meta-analysis and found that there wasn't a significant difference between the two, and the best results were when you use both. Okay so so this isn't just like it's a good idea. This is an example of evidence-based and I think that that's really. You know, it's important to know that a diet involves different things, but I think anything, even the most seemingly bland decodable text, has to be recognized as having some knowledge that kids who don't know a lot about reading that's what they're learning, right.

Melissa:

Well, is there anything else you wanted to share about any of your texts, or any information our listeners would want to know?

Freddy Hiebert:

Well, I'm always looking for new ideas for things. Like I said, I have a recent set of texts that we've just put on Text Project and keep remembering I put the texts out there. They're based on research and then I hope real publishers will do some of it and um, and we've just put on a series of um they're called word roots and they're a little well. Some of these are actually stories and it turns out if you give um ai specific things to write a story about, you can get some pretty interesting stories. Um, but they're um on the three levels of English. You know, uh, stories about Greek words, um stories about um.

Freddy Hiebert:

There's a great I like the. There's a story about the great mispronouncer. You know words around pronunciation I. That that is just fun, and so I'm always looking for things like that. I mean, I was. I'm writing this new book and all of a sudden it came to me like how would I tell kids about? How could I teach them about polysemy in a really interesting way? You know so. So thanks for what you guys do.

Lori:

You're amazing, oh my gosh Right back at you. Thank you for all that you do. I mean, the number of books and all of the things that you've done is just incredible. I don't even know how you've done that. That's unimaginable. So thank you for all that you've contributed.

Melissa:

Yeah, and sharing all of this with for teachers to use, is, I mean so helpful.

Freddy Hiebert:

Thank you, Thank you very much. You guys take care. I hope to see you again sometime.

Melissa:

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Lori:

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Melissa:

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Lori:

We appreciate you so much and we're so glad you're here to learn with us.