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Reading Interventions for Upper Elementary with Catlin Goodrow

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Episode 236

Catlin Goodrow discusses her role as a literacy coach and interventionist for older students, focusing on assessing student needs, implementing effective interventions, and the logistics of providing support in the classroom. She shares insights on decoding challenges, comprehension strategies, and the importance of engaging students with appropriate texts. She also emphasizes the significance of flexibility in instruction and offers practical tips for teachers to support struggling readers. Check out her new book 'Reading Beyond the Routines,' which provides research-informed strategies for teaching literacy in grades 2 through 6.


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Melissa:

By the time students reach the upper elementary grades, reading struggles can look really different from one kid to the next. Some still need help with decoding. Others can read the words, but fluency or comprehension is the real challenge.

Lori:

Figuring out what's getting in the way is the first step to helping them. Our guest today, katlyn Goodrow, is a reading specialist working with third through fifth graders who are reading below grade level. She shares a flexible, responsive approach that gets results. Hi teacher friends. I'm Lori and I'm Melissa. We are two educators who want the best for all kids, and we know you do too.

Melissa:

We worked together in Baltimore when the district adopted a new literacy curriculum.

Lori:

We realized there was so much more to learn about how to teach reading and writing.

Melissa:

Lori, and I can't wait to keep learning with you today. Hi, katlin, welcome back to the podcast.

Catlin Goodrow:

Hi, it's good to be here.

Melissa:

Can't believe you were actually on episode 15 of the podcast and we are now going to be on episode 236. Can you believe that?

Catlin Goodrow:

Yes, we've come a long way.

Melissa:

Yeah, that is wild, but we're excited to have you here today to talk about what you're doing now, years later, which is providing intervention for older students.

Lori:

So, Katlyn, can you start us off with just a quick overview of your current role, just to situate all the teachers listening. Who are the students you work with? What does your day-to-day look like? Tell us all the things.

Catlin Goodrow:

Great, thank you. Thanks for having me back. So currently I am a literacy coach and intervention teacher at a charter school in Spokane, washington, and I've been working with third through fifth graders specifically, and so my day to day has kind of been my own creation, because there was no real intervention program. I started when we went back to school after the pandemic, and so my day-to-day is a combination of small group pullouts where I work on specific skills with students, some push in, especially with our fifth graders, and then I do literacy coaching for those grades as well. So I do all the coach things team meetings, one-on-ones and we're very lucky to have instructional assistants on our campus. We have one for every two classrooms in grades three through five, so I also work with them to provide some interventions for specifically for fluency.

Melissa:

So exciting and we're going to dig all into everything you do. So we have tons of questions for you all about this, and I'm thinking specifically first. You know, when you get to third through fifth grade and you think about students who are reading below grade level, I would always get just like a number like oh, they're reading at the second grade level and I'm like, okay, well, I don't know what that means, right, like that doesn't help me, because there's so many different things that that could be that gets in the way of them being successful readers. So I'm wondering how do you determine you know what your students really actually need, like, are there specific assessments that you're using to help identify those needs? We want to hear all about that.

Catlin Goodrow:

Great. So our school uses the NWEA map to screen all students, starting in first grade, and then I specifically look at kids who are the 20th percentile or below or who've been in intervention in the past, and we'll do a full a cadence battery on them. So that's a reading fluency assessment, a retell, and then a closed test where they have to kind of read and fill in the blanks and even though it's not technically a diagnostic, I guess I feel like we get a lot of good information from it. You can understand. Is the issue fluency? Are they having a lot of problems with accuracy or they're fluent and accurate? But maybe that retell is disordered, they're just telling random things, and so for students where accuracy is the issue, we'll then go back and do the core phonics screener. It's fewer kids, because I work with older kids. A lot of their decoding issues are in multi-syllabic words, but we do still have a few, especially who come to us from other campuses, who have some really basic decoding issues that they're striving with.

Melissa:

Yeah, that's great. So it sounds like I mean you start with that screener for everybody, then give the diagnostic for those that need that more, and then you dive even deeper. When you find out specifically where they need more help, you have even more assessments to find out what they need. So it sounds like a lot of assessments, but you said they're pretty quick. So I think you probably get a lot of information from those quick assessments.

Catlin Goodrow:

Yes, the cadence assessment is six minutes of reading one-on-one with the kids and then three minutes for the closed test. That can be in a group, so it is very quick and then we do that. Just a one minute fluency check on all the students.

Melissa:

We love that one minute fluency assessment.

Catlin Goodrow:

All right.

Melissa:

So I have one more logistical question for you, which is about when this happens. That's always the question, right. When does your not the assessments, but the interventions? When do those actually happen? Within a day, you know people are like, oh, we can't pull them out, but you know, when do they get pulled out? When can it happen? So just some logistics around that, Like, do you push in, Do you pull out?

Catlin Goodrow:

When do you make it happen in your school day? Yeah, so I send out a survey at the beginning of the year asking teachers what are some times give me as many blocks of time that would work and I take all those surveys and it's a very low-tech process where I hand write into a daily schedule like when teachers say I could pull their kids and from that I create a schedule that I then give them to get feedback on and then we finalize it. I know when I was a teacher they just gave me a schedule and said this is when we're pulling your kids, and that was really frustrating. So it's not perfect, but I do try and incorporate the teacher's requests as much as possible.

Catlin Goodrow:

That being said, I think next year we're going to try and move to a more uh, what I need, or win block time, um. So that will be a whole other logistical um thing that we'll have to figure out, because it will be so all of like k2 will have an hour that's there when I need time and pull outs would happen in that time. And then for my, in the past two years it's just so happened that a lot of the kids I work with have been in the same class in fifth grade, so I pushed in into those classes, which is a model I really like, because you can help anyone, it doesn't have to be a student who's technically assigned to intervention, and it's been really nice to have those extra people in the classroom with the fifth graders.

Lori:

Yeah, I'm wondering, katlyn, something that came up for me as you were talking was I'm thinking about the students' needs and how you're making these decisions to push in and pull out, besides logistics. Right, I'm sure logistics are obviously number one, but do the students' needs make a difference, and what their you know struggles are make a difference in whether you decide to push into a classroom or pull out?

Catlin Goodrow:

I think the determinant is do they need kind of a separate curriculum that's different from what the rest of the kids in their class are doing? And then I would pull them out. So if they're in fourth grade but they have first grade decoding skills, we need to work on that. And I know because of the curriculum and the teachers in my school that they're also getting exposed to grade level instruction in their general instructional day. Usually by the time my kiddos are in fifth grade they've been with me so they can do their general classroom instruction with a little bit of extra support. So I'll pull a small group in the back of the classroom to read the text that everyone else is reading. I also help them a lot with writing in that time. So sometimes it's just sitting down and let's really get your writing plan firmed up before you start writing. So that's kind of how I distinguish between those.

Lori:

Okay, that's helpful. I think that's going to lead me into the next question. Is that? You know, you just mentioned a couple different topics, right? You mentioned reading, you mentioned writing. There's different ways to approach each and the interventions might look different. So what does it look like? If decoding still is an issue for our older students and also, I want to be sure to address, you know, students who are struggling with multisyllabic words, how do those interventions vary?

Catlin Goodrow:

So with my kiddos, who use, who are striving with basic decoding as we kind of see where they are on the Corphonic screener. It has ended up. A lot of kids once they get into third grade where they're struggling in foundational skills is starting with long vowels. So I do the UFLY University of Florida literacy program with them. But I start the program where the need is indicated. So it's designed for kinder first and second, but I found it to be really effective in building decoding and encoding skills and so we just start wherever they seem to need. And then for students who their accuracy issues are more in multi-syllabic words, I use a program that's called Rewards from Anita Archer. That really teaches kids how to break down those longer words, put them back together and also focuses on decoding and encoding.

Catlin Goodrow:

I've been really influenced by some work by Mark Seidenberg, who's a researcher, and he talks about how we need to take advantage of kids' statistical learning or their ability to like iterate on patterns that they learn. So once I see that kids are doing that, basically I look for are you reading now? A bunch of words with patterns that haven't been explicitly taught. That's a sign to me that they might not need as much explicit decoding instruction but I do teach them a routine that's similar to. I think you've had Devin Kearns on the show. It's similar to the routine he's talked about, where they identify the vowels, look for parts in the word, say each part slowly. Then they say it fast and think about is this a real word, is this something I've heard before and if not, we probably need to flex the vowels or change some of the emphasis.

Melissa:

I love that. I'm curious about the UFLY with the students that need that and just, you know, I always think I taught sixth graders, you know, and I always think, like if I went back and taught them something that was designed for K-2, would there be pushback? Would there be, you know? Would they say like, oh, this is, this is for little kids and not for me? I'm wondering, since you're you're actually doing it, are you seeing that or are you finding that they are like this is what I need, let's do it.

Catlin Goodrow:

Usually they are pretty receptive to it. One thing I like about you fly is that the slides are very plain. They don't have cute characters or anything like that, and the little decodable stories that they have are actually really appropriate for older kids. They're about kids independently having fun so riding bikes and going to the store and camping and hiking so they're not stories that feel babyish.

Catlin Goodrow:

I've maybe had a couple of kids who are maybe a little resistant, but one of the things that is just I've learned from my years in this role is that with older kids you can be pretty honest about where they are. Like I'll say, like about where they are, I'll say these are some first grade words that we're working on. But that sets the foundation for us to be able to say at the end of the year wow, we started with first grade words, now you're reading third grade texts, so you've grown two years in this one school year. Look at that. So with that framing, I felt that kids are pretty receptive to whatever the instruction needs to be to get them where they want to be.

Melissa:

That's what I was thinking that success. When they find that they're growing and having that success, I would think that would really motivate them and get over the oh, this is a K2 thing.

Lori:

Yeah, and like something that I'm thinking about too, is that just from the standpoint of honesty with the kids or with the students? I've talked about Dr Becky on this podcast before. Melissa is going to laugh, but she's a clinical psychologist and she talks about a lot of parenting stuff, but she always says that information doesn't scare kids and that to me, like what you're doing is really honoring that that like lack of information actually scares kids, cause then they're kind of left alone, being like, well, I don't, I don't know how to read fifth grade words right now, and what you know, I'm sitting here looking at fifth grade words and I don't know how to read them, so you're like just straight leveling with them. Hey, these are words, they're building a foundation, they're going to help us read other words that you're going to get to and I'm going to help you there too. But here's the deal, and I don't think there's anything more honoring of a student than that or of a person, right? So I really appreciate you sharing that.

Lori:

I have one quick question about the UFLY. You said that you start where students need, do you mean in the scope and sequence? Is that an accurate?

Catlin Goodrow:

So there's a unit where we're doing vowel blank E long vowel spelling. So if that's kind of where they tapped out in the core phonics screen, that's where we'll start in UFLY.

Melissa:

All right. So then I'm sure you have a whole other group of students, right. You have your students who are decoders. So they're fine with decoding, probably even multisyllabic words, but then maybe they're not fluent readers. Or maybe they are fluent readers and they're just still not understanding. We get that question a lot Like what do we do then if students are reading just fine, but they're still not understanding what they read? So what do you do for these students?

Catlin Goodrow:

Yeah, and I think that question has been really motivating for me to try and figure out, because I think guidance is not very strong in that area and I've heard, you know, people ask that question what do I do? And people will say, well, it probably actually is a decoding issue, and we have to be fine saying that it isn't always about decoding. So with those students and even some who are still striving with decoding, I do knowledge-based units with them and I've sort of just designed these around things that I think are interesting, that the kids think are interesting, these around things that I think are interesting, that the kids think are interesting. Sometimes I ask them you know we have three options which one of these would you choose? I've also designed some around novels, and so those are just opportunities to give them some tools to slow down a bit and to really get in the habit, with the support of an adult, of thinking while they're reading. One of the things that I've noticed with a lot of my students, where comprehension is really where we need to focus, they'll, if you ask them a question about the text, they'll kind of just say the last thing that they read, and so we really put in place strategies that are just about hold on. Take a moment to think. Let's go back, and so I mean, none of it is rocket science, but it's a lot of stuff that, like, actually point at the words. Show me the words that you're using to answer this question, then they'll go oh, okay, yeah, so those words didn't answer the question. Let's go back and reread.

Catlin Goodrow:

We do a lot of paragraph shrinking or getting the gist, which I know people have talked about on your show before but that's just identifying what's most important in a paragraph and then who or who.

Catlin Goodrow:

So who or what is most important, and then what's important about the who or what, which sounds really simple, but I can't tell you the number of kids who just identifying the topic of a paragraph is really challenging. So they want to latch on to what's most interesting to them. So we just work on a lot of these skills. And then this past year I had a specific group that had so many strengths as readers but just like weren't doing well on sort of like formal assessments, and so that group we worked on question answer relationships, so that's identifying whether the question I'm asked is can I answer it in the text, like the words, are there the whole answers in the text or it's in my head? I have to make an inference, and that was kind of an experiment. We specifically just worked on answering questions and several of those kids made a ton of growth, and so I think that's something they'll continue to work with in the future.

Melissa:

You made me think, while you're talking about slowing down which is really interesting because I'm, you know I also asked about fluency, which you know we talked to Dan Hasbrook about, who says it's not about reading fast, but it is about reading automatically, right? So you do want it to be at a certain rate. So it's funny that, like in kids' minds, it's like at some point it's like I'm trying to read faster right, they want me to read faster but then it's also like slow down, so you can like really think about what you're you're reading. So it's like finding that right balance of, you know, reading at that right rate, so you, you know, aren't laboring over every word, but also slowing down to make sense of what you're reading, and that's a fine balance for them.

Catlin Goodrow:

Yeah, well, usually in groups that are working on fluency and comprehension, we'll start with like two or three minutes of fluency work where they're doing repeated readings of the same passage, and then we shift gears. But even in the fluency I will really try and listen in and give them really specific feedback. So I'll say, on this part you slowed down because there was a word you needed to figure out and then you reread the sentence, just like we've talked about, and so, even though you read less words today than you did yesterday, it was because you specifically slowed down at this one part.

Melissa:

And it was purposeful to make sense of what they were reading.

Catlin Goodrow:

Yeah, and so I think they need that really specific feedback where you're able to actually point to the thing that they did, the word that they said, and that just involves really careful listening to what they're doing as they read.

Lori:

All right. So, katlyn, you're talking about these knowledge-based units, right? And you mentioned a before, during and after framework. Can you share what this looks like in practice? I know everybody is like tell me, I want to replicate this framework.

Catlin Goodrow:

So after I preview, I set a purpose for reading, and one of the things that has changed in my practice is something that I learned from a Tim Shanahan blog Tim Shanahan being one of the greatest interpreters of research into practical advice and he talked about how your purpose for reading should be general enough that students aren't only focusing on one aspect of the text.

Catlin Goodrow:

So it could be something as simple as let's read to find out more about the unique adaptations that birds have, or let's read to find out what happens to Beatrice and her companions today. So just a simple purpose, and that's when we jump into the during reading. And in the during reading phase we really have two routines. One is the multi-syllabic decoding routine that I talked about earlier, and the other is the paragraph shrinking or the get the gist. I tend to call it generating gist statements or getting the gist because I found, especially in texts for, say, third graders, a lot of times the paragraph is not the right unit to shrink. It will have sometimes so little information in it that shrinking it is just retelling the entire thing.

Lori:

So thank you for saying that. I appreciate it. As a former second and third grade teacher, You're like. Well, this paragraph was a sentence there's not really much to like.

Catlin Goodrow:

Exactly so. I'll just block out for the kids what unit they should stop on and shrink or get the gist of, and so kind of the purpose of during reading is I want them to generate just a general understanding of the text, and then after reading routines are really about digging deeper. One of my favorite after reading routines is to have the students generate questions. They'll either jot them down as they read or after they read. They'll just note their questions and then we discuss those questions and I try not to be really like is this a good question or not a good question, and really let them roll with whatever they come up with, because I found that we as adults don't always know what are the questions that they are going to have.

Catlin Goodrow:

And so, like, one of my favorite examples was this picture of an owl swooping down and there was a mouse on the ground that had like a little food, and one of the kids questions was why is the owl giving the mouse side-eye? And I was like what? But I just went with it and it turned out that it really illuminated for one of the other kids what was going on, because he hadn't realized that the mouse was going to be the food. And so by her question that to an adult you're like is this a good question? It actually helped him understand in a way that one of my questions probably would not have.

Melissa:

Yeah, and I was gonna say that's like the authentic curiosity and also like making meaning right. They're just they're trying to make meaning of it. So if it's where they're stuck and they have a question, you don't want to squash that and, you know, have them afraid to ask those questions. So I'm curious about for these knowledge-based units, I mean that's, that's a big job for you to like create these knowledge-based units. I'm wondering, like, where do you choose, like how do you choose which texts and which topics to use for for your interventions?

Catlin Goodrow:

Yeah, so I really had no resources when I first started in this job.

Lori:

Sounds familiar to a lot of teachers. Yes, so I was thinking. Every teacher right now is like go on, go on.

Catlin Goodrow:

we're listening, so I've used a lot of the free resources that are out there, like ReadWorks, and I have now, over time and the generosity of my principal, gotten some text sets. So, say, the unit that the owl question came from. It's a unit about birds and so the target text, which is an idea from Sarah Lupo and her use, so the target text we use for that is called Spit Nests, puke Power and Other Brilliant Bird Adaptations by Laura Perdue.

Melissa:

Say that one again. That's such a great title.

Catlin Goodrow:

It's called Spit Nests, puke Power and Other Brilliant Bird Adaptations. Just the title you're like. This is something kids want to read. There actually are vultures that have acidic puke that they puke on their enemies. So kids love that, and so how could they not? How could they not? And so that's the target texts.

Catlin Goodrow:

It's a little more complex, it talks about adaptations, and so I then want to build up some understandings and vocabulary so that we can actually read that text. So I just start with some general ReadWorks articles or free articles that are about what do birds have in common, what are their characteristics? So we read these articles and sort of build that understanding what makes a bird a bird, what do birds have in common? And then when we read spit nests, we're talking about well then, what makes birds different? How are they adapted to their specific environment? And then we end with a writing task where they have to draw a specific environment and design a bird that is adapted to that environment. So it's also building that schema of what is an adaptation and how do adaptations help those animals survive.

Lori:

And when you're choosing these, what's happening in the other classes? Are you selecting these topics because you know students have learned about it? Are you selecting these topics because you know students will learn about it? Maybe neither of those are true. Just an authentic question. Yes, it really depends.

Catlin Goodrow:

So in fourth grade one of the books that I've read with students is the Beatrice Prophecy by Kate DiCamillo.

Lori:

I say DiCamillo in my head, but both are probably right. It's an in-your-head last name.

Catlin Goodrow:

And so that is set in sort of like a nameless medieval type kingdom and a bunch of it happens in a monastery. And so my students in fourth grade in the USKLA they do a middle ages unit so they have some of that background knowledge before they come to the text. Some of the other ones are just things that kids are interested in. With some of my more reluctant, older readers I'll say, like here are three topics that are interesting, like UFOs, dinosaur fossils and something else, and have them kind of do a rank choice vote. Those are harder because I then have to find the stuff that they're interested in. But I have found. You know, now there's such a plethora of websites with texts that it usually comes together pretty easily.

Lori:

All right, I'm wondering if we can walk through a student's path. So just thinking about an older student who you might be working with, maybe a fourth grader, just because it's, you know, in the middle, someone, a kiddo who entered your intervention, let's say, far below grade level, right? So what do you do first and like, how does that instruction evolve over the course of their time with you as their intervention teacher?

Catlin Goodrow:

Yeah, as their intervention teacher. Yeah, so I'm specifically thinking of one student who came to us, had not been at our school, came to us in fourth grade and when I started the Acadians, which is fourth grade text she really struggled right away and we actually went back to like a first grade word list and then a first grade text and so I talked to her a little bit about what her path had been and she was very honest about like feeling like she'd been failed by her previous school and she also had a really tremendous asset, which is that she has high oral vocabulary, lots of verbal strengths, so that was something that we could build on. So she was actually in a group of a few other students who also hadn't been at our campus. Because we are one of the only schools of choice in our area, we get a lot of kids who they and their parents just feel like the other school wasn't working for them. So a lot of kids who come to our campus at that age might be striving readers, and so we started with YouFly and there was a small group with her that had similar skills fly and there was a small group with her that had similar skills and after a little while I realized that they were ready to move faster. So we actually were doing like two lessons combined. So they could, because they had all these assets in their oral language, because they were older. They just their comprehension and attention are better or stronger than maybe a little one would be. We were able to pick up concepts faster, and after about six months of that we moved into the knowledge building and fluency unit. So they actually did that bird unit that I was just talking about. They actually did that bird unit that I was just talking about.

Catlin Goodrow:

And then this year I would say this student was still striving with decoding, but now it is with more of the multisyllabic words. And one thing that is a benefit with kids who have strong oral language and vocabulary is that even if they decode a longer word incorrectly, they're very quickly able to say like oh, that's this word, so this is, that's where that's the student is. And so I pushed in in fifth grade so when, when it was time to read text, we'd often read in a small group. Because of her strong language skills, she's a very creative writer, so just needed some help with spelling and organizing ideas. But so after those two years. She passed her state test at the end of this year, and so she'll definitely still need some support in middle school. But I feel strong about where she's going and the middle school is in our building as well, so I can check in.

Lori:

Oh, that's so good to hear. We love a success story.

Catlin Goodrow:

Yes, and I think that I know some schools are very much like. We use this for tier two and we use this for tier three, and I know why they have those kind of hard boundaries. I think, though, like I doubt, that if we just like done you, fly all year long exactly as written, if the student would have gotten where she needed to be, would have gotten where she needed to be, and so having the flexibility to accelerate when it's time has been really important to helping kids meet their goals.

Melissa:

Yeah, I think that's so important and I love what you brought up earlier with Mark Seidenberg too of, like you know, when you start seeing them going and getting more than what you're even teaching them, then don't hold them back. You don't need to keep them where they are, like let's get them going as fast as they can, especially if they're one, two, three grade levels below. We want to get them where they need to be as fast as we can.

Catlin Goodrow:

And you know, if we find out like, oh, we need to really strengthen our like vowel teams, we can do that, go back and do that and then keep accelerating.

Melissa:

Right, yeah, absolutely, and I'm glad you brought up vocabulary. I know we didn't mention that earlier, which I'm shocked we didn't mention it, but, like you said, she had really great vocabulary. But I'm assuming if you found a student did not have the strong oral vocabulary like she did, that is probably somewhere you would find a place to put that in as well, I'm guessing.

Catlin Goodrow:

Yes, and I think that the rewards program that I use and I know there's a similar free program, Word Connections that these decoding programs for older students usually include a vocabulary component, so you're learning prefixes and suffixes and roots, but you're also learning what they mean, and so I think those programs can be really helpful in that area Makes sense.

Melissa:

So I am curious because our audience is mostly teachers, right? So a lot of them are third through fifth grade teachers and probably thinking like these are my students, they're sitting in my class, I have to teach them though the fourth grade texts and they do still need what Catlin's giving them over here. Do you have any suggestions for the teachers in the classroom for students that still have these decoding needs or the multisyllabic decoding or fluency or vocabulary, if they have those needs still? I know that's a big question, but just some ideas for teachers for how they can sort of help them even within the grade level classroom.

Catlin Goodrow:

Yeah. So I think that one thing that I would say is be sure to have opportunities to listen to kids read so that you'll know exactly what they need. I think that you know we moved away from running records in the science of reading land, and the problem with running records wasn't listening to kids read, it was you know that they were time consuming and that the levels were not necessarily accurate. But listening to kids read is still a great thing and taking some kind of record or notes while they're reading is also still a good thing, and so I think listening to those kids read is really important. And then I really recommend for the teachers that I coach who are teaching full classrooms you know 24 kids or so to, during times when kids are reading challenging texts, to think about intentionally how they're going to read, intentionally how they're going to read.

Catlin Goodrow:

So you might have five or six kids who can read independently on their own, silently.

Catlin Goodrow:

You might have, you know, a third of the class who can do paired reading, and I know you've had episodes on paired reading that talk about how you want a slightly stronger reader with a reader who's more striving, but you don't want a vast difference between those students. So the sort of lead reader or the coach can support the striving reader but they're reading together and then pull your kids who are the most striving and you can read with them at a small table, maybe do choral reading or do closed reading, where you read but then you drop out and they read the next word. I usually vary, read aloud with the kids reading some choral reading. My students love to read individually, which I know not everyone does and that can be really anxiety producing for some kids. So cautiously, you know, but my kids ask too, so I do let them sometimes, and so I would say just being really intentional about grouping and then using those before, during and after routines as scaffolds is really important.

Melissa:

Those are great suggestions and totally doable in a classroom. Thank you for those.

Catlin Goodrow:

Yeah.

Lori:

All right, so I get to do the best part of our podcast today. Katlyn wrote a book, so if you're so interested in all the things that she shared today and you want to hear more, you have to get her book. Katlyn, I have to tell you this book is like your cover of your book is one of my favorite covers I've ever seen. It's so whimsical and sweet. I love it. But I'll let you tell about the book so everybody can hear all your amazing tips for reaching older readers.

Catlin Goodrow:

Yes, so it's called Reading Beyond the Basics Key Routines for Engaging, research-informed Instruction in Grades 2 through 6. So it's really targeted at the readers we've been talking about, and I love the cover as well. And one of the reasons why I chose the whimsical cover that I did is I feel like a lot of times in the science of reading space we're not as whimsical as back in the balanced reading days, we're not as focused on the fun and the love of reading. And while everything in the book is based on research, I also wanted to just tell stories about kids reading and enjoying books and about the time that I've spent with kids just loving books. So there's tons of stories like the one about the owl who gives the mouse side eye in the book as well.

Catlin Goodrow:

And then the routines that I talk about in the book or today are also in the book.

Catlin Goodrow:

So all of those before, during and after reading routines are spelled out and I'll take you through from. How do you introduce it, how do you go through the gradual release of responsibility? And then one of the things that was really important to me in writing the book was just knowing the varied situations that teachers are in. So some teachers get to plan a whole unit on their own, choose the texts, but some teachers don't, lots of teachers don't. You have a core reading program that you're supposed to follow, and so one thing I wanted to do is provide guidance in how to use the routine with your core program, like what to look for in the sidebars in your program that can help you pick the words to preview, or how do you think about analyzing the text that you have to teach versus one that you've picked and you know really well already. And so that was important to me, because I think, especially a lot of times when you come out of teacher school, you've like learned to write all these lessons from scratch and you're ready to go and no one has talked to you about well how do you execute on a lesson that someone else wrote, and so that was an important part of the book for me.

Lori:

Such important stuff for teachers to know. So thank you for writing it Again. It's called Reading Beyond the Basics. It's out on October 9th. You can pre-order on Amazon now, of course, but I also want to note that I've listed everything in the show notes and linked them, everything that you've shared today. So you talked about a podcast or one of our podcast episodes with Devin Kearns. I linked another podcast episode that spoke to one thing that you talked about but didn't say the episode.

Lori:

Another article by Sarah Lupo Building Background Knowledge Through Reading Rethinking Text Sets. The Rewards Program by Anita Archer that is a paid program. It looks like Just scouting around online. And then Word Connections by Jessica Toast. That is a free program. So if you are listening right now, you have a ton of resources in the show notes. Go click and go find out more. Can we add our partner reading? Oh yeah, good call, I knew, see, I was like busy linking. Thank you, you got so many, but I'll add that one. I got a lot. Thank you, that's such a good episode. Which one is that With Jake Downs? Right, jake Downs sport, sport, yes, synchronized paired oral reading. Wait, synchronized paired oral reading.

Lori:

Techniques. I always want to say team because it's sport, but I know that's not right. So, jake, if you're listening. We'll have to do another one with another acronym.

Catlin Goodrow:

That's one of those episodes that I like to give people that I coach, because I'm like here's someone else saying this and you'll probably listen, and it's a researcher.

Lori:

It's a really fun episode. Jake makes it so easy to understand. Thank you for calling that one out too. No problem. Ah, so many good resources. Thank you so much for being here we can't thank you enough.

Catlin Goodrow:

Yes, thanks for having me on again. It's so exciting to be back after these many years and hundreds of episodes later. Hundreds of episodes.

Melissa:

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Lori:

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Melissa:

Just a quick reminder that the views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests of the Melissa and Lori Love Literacy podcast are not necessarily the opinions of Great Minds PBC or its employees, we appreciate you so much and we're so glad you're here to learn with us.

Lori:

Thank you.