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Rock Your Literacy Block with Lindsay Kemeny

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Episode 244 

Lindsay Kemeny shares her insights on effectively managing a literacy block in a primary classroom. She discusses her daily schedule, emphasizing the importance of routines in phonics instruction, close reading strategies, and writing lessons. Lindsay also highlights the importance of small group instruction for differentiation and explains how to manage center work for students! She encourages teachers to focus on progress rather than perfection, sharing practical tips and strategies for enhancing literacy instruction.

Lindsay's Book, Rock Your Literacy Block, is available now! 


We answer your questions about teaching reading in The Literacy 50-A Q&A Handbook for Teachers: Real-World Answers to Questions About Reading That Keep You Up at Night.

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Melissa:

Teachers everywhere are asking questions like: How do I fit it all in? How do I balance phonics, comprehension, small groups, and independent work? In this episode, we talk with Lindsay Kemeney, first grade teacher and author of Rock Your Literacy Block.

Lori:

Lindsay walks us through what her literacy block looks like, from whole group lessons to small group time. You'll get practical tips on structuring your schedule, routines to make your lessons flow, and repeatable strategies that work for all learners. Get ready to rock your literacy block. Hi, teacher friends. I'm Lori and I'm Melissa. We are two educators who want the best for all kids, and we know you do too.

Melissa:

We worked together in Baltimore when the district adopted a new literacy curriculum.

Lori:

We realized there was so much more to learn about how to teach reading and writing. Lori and I can't wait to keep learning with you today. Hi, Lindsay. Welcome back, back, back to the podcast. We cannot wait to talk to you today about rocking your literacy block.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Thank you. I'm excited to be here. It's fun talking with you guys. I feel like we're friends, and so this is great. Yeah, is this your fourth time? Fifth time?

Melissa:

We can have to go back and count. I know. We love having you on. And we can't wait to talk about this. I we seriously get questions about not only, I mean, we we're gonna first ask you about your whole schedule because we get that question a lot. Like, how do you fit everything into a day? And then we're gonna zoom into your literacy block, which we also get a lot of questions about. What does your literacy block look like? So we're gonna talk all about that. And I know our teachers are gonna really love to hear about like what you really do in your classroom. So let's start with that big, big picture. So can you just give us a snapshot of what your typical schedule for a day looks like in your first grade, right? First grade classroom. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Just tell us what that looks like. Okay, sure. So uh and I'll say the order can change a little bit year to year because you know, every year we get assigned when recesses and when like our specials are and just like all the different things. But um this year, so we start, students come about 8:50. The bell rings. They come in, they sit on the rug, we start right away. We jump into our phonics lesson. Um, after phonics, we go into our close reading lesson. After close reading, we go into our writing lesson. So it's kind of like boom, boom, boom. I have all like my, you know, like a lot of my whole group like right away. I was a little worried at first because our recess was scheduled a little later in the morning. So usually I have a break before like writing or before close reading, and now it's like all three of those, and then we have recess, but I've actually really loved it this year. It's been great. So then we have recess after our writing lesson, and after recess, we come back in and we do small group and centers, and then we go to lunch. So that this is like I said, if you're listening and like panicking because I'm going so fast, I think we're gonna dive. We'll go, we'll dive more into this. But that takes us to lunch. We have lunch at noon. Um, we come back in at 12:35 and we do a quick little read aloud. Like, this is different than my read aloud in the close reading lesson. If I did one, this is more just like story time, pure enjoyment. And then we go to our specials where you know students are going to either like PE or art or music, uh, computers, and then they come back in and we have math. Uh, that takes us to about like 2 15, and we have another 15-minute recess. We come back in, finish math, and then we have 30 minutes at the end of the day, which is like rotating science and social studies, and then we pack up and we go home at 3 30.

Melissa:

So my son's in first grade. So I was thinking about this the whole time you're going through that schedule. He comes home so tired every day. Poor little, and I was as you went through that, I was like, I I can understand why he's so tired when he comes home. Yeah, we fit a lot in for sure. A lot, for sure.

Lori:

I also noticed that lunch is at a normal time. So I really appreciate that. I mean, you know, I feel like I've had lunch anytime between like 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. working.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yes. I know. I love like having right at noon. It's so great.

Lori:

Can I also ask a question, Linz, about um, you said you jump right into phonics.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Do you do a morning meeting? Um, I do like a little, yeah, I have like a morning message, and uh, you know, we kind of start with a song and that kind of thing. We don't have our typical like mindful minute morning thing. I save that for at the end of the day, like when we're packed up and at the end, because I just want to get right into the routine of things. So we do kind of our greeting, our song, and then jump, you know, morning message, and then we jump in.

Lori:

Thank you for that clarification. I appreciate it. I feel like if I were a teacher listening, I'd be like, all right, morning meeting. What happens? Like, you know, the typical thing. So, okay, so you just jump right in. So, all right, now that we've kind of like had that zoomed out picture, I want to dig into the first block, to that phonics, to the foundational skills work. Can you walk us through what a phonics lesson looks like in your classroom? I heard you say you start with some songs, which I maybe you'll sing to us today. Um, but maybe you could highlight a few of the routines that make it run, you know, kind of seamlessly for you and your students.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yes. Okay. So, and that's, I just think the key with phonics. It's so structured. Having those consistent routines is huge. I think sometimes people think uh teachers or or students, the teachers fear students will be bored but with the routines, but I find they don't. Like if they're getting bored, it's usually a pacing issue. It's not the routines. They thrive on the routines, and especially students who can be a little anxious and worried. I feel like they especially like those routines really are advantageous for them because they know exactly what to do. They know where they're going, what they're gonna do next, and all the thinking can they can just focus on the new concept I'm teaching, right? So uh I start and I want to preface this by saying, like, as I'm describing my day and what I do, I'm not saying like this is the most perfect way to do it, and this is how everyone has to do it. But I my like intention, and this is like the same with the book, is to give you ideas and to help inspire your own ideas of how this would work, you know, what would work best for your students and for you. So one thing with your phonics lessons is that you need to think about like the physical location. So you have to think about your classroom setup and the physical like location students are in in your classroom and and what works best. So for me, I like to start our lessons at the rug, like on the carpet. This is also, it's convenient because this is where we start at the beginning of the day, right? And you're just asking me, like, what do you do? Yeah, we do this little morning message and little greeting song and and you know, announcements and that kind of thing. So we're already right there. But then when I start my phonics lesson, I love having them there because I feel like they focus better. They're just like huddled together. Um, they're all facing me. I could see I'm closer up to them. So if I have to show something with my mouth or, you know, when we're doing a sound or um listening to them as they respond, it's just I I like having them really close right there. So yeah, I will usually do a little phonemic awareness warm-up. Um I guess I can sing these songs, Lori. Like, do I really want to?

Lori:

Listen, I've sung before on the podcast. We're here for it.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, I know. I I've seen I've sung them in webinars and things, and I didn't make them up, so I have to say that. Like, you know. Um, but I'll do like for blending, I'll do slide, slide, slippity, slide. When I say the sounds, you're gonna make them glide. And then I'll go chat and they say chat. Chip chop. They say which. It's very fast. We just do like maybe eight words. It's just a little warm-up. And then I'll sing and they sing with me for segmenting. We'll go, break it down, break it down, break it down, break it down, break it down. When I say the words, you say the sounds, break it down. And then I'll say the words. So again, like let's say if the lesson was on CH, you know, I'm doing CH words. So I say which and they go, woo, itch. And I say such, such, you know, whatever. So it's just a quick little warm-up. I know we have these discussions about oral-only phonemic awareness and phonemic awareness with letters. This is a quick warm-up. It takes like a minute just to, you know, get us ready. And of course, some students are gonna struggle with blending and segmenting. We're gonna be doing this more with letters during our phonics lessons in small group. I'm gonna be pulling out and working with students who need more help and scaffolding with that. Um, and so after we do that little warm-up, we're gonna have a Finny McGuernas warm-up, we're gonna have uh a phonics, like a review where we're gonna review, do a quick review of the skills that we've learned. And then I'm going to introduce the new concept that we're learning. Um, and we're going to choral read words with that new concept. So I'm trying to think what we have. Oh, we're doing like magic-e in my class. So we've been doing, you know, like a consonant e, i consonant e, whatever. So I call it magic-y. And um, and so like I would introduce, do a little introduction, then we're gonna choral read words that follow that skill. And so I have that all we're still at the rug for that. So I have pre-written words on um that follow the skill I'm teaching before school. So that when I'm ready for that part, like I have a little whiteboard easel and I have like this old radiator because we have this old school, and I have this magnetic page with the words written on it. So, like when I'm ready for them to choral read words, like I just grab that magnetic page and put it on my easel, and then we're ready to go right into choral reading. So I mentioned that just because something for like all the listeners to think about are the transitions between the steps of the lesson. Um, because it's not just the lesson steps, it's like those transitions. And so that is very seamless and quick, and I don't like waste any time. Um, so I have we read those words. I'm listening, I'm watching carefully to see who is a little bit slow to um respond to the words and who seems to be picking up quickly. And then we move to our desks for the rest of the lesson. So I'll say desk, desk, desk, and they say desk, desk, desk, and they all stand up and they move to the desks, and they're very proud that they can do that in about 30 seconds. And um, and it's really, it's really fun. And as soon as they get there, like again, thinking about all those routines and procedures, as soon as they get to the desks, they know that they get out their whiteboard, their marker, their eraser, and they're ready for dictation. So by the time like I stand up and walk to the front of the room and you know, point out and praise them, you know, and praise a few students, we're ready to go into dictation.

Lori:

I do want to pause you though before you continue with dictation, because I like I'm just wondering, how do you decide which phonics skills? You mentioned this idea of like whole group and small group, and I know you said small groups later in the day, but how do you decide what you're teaching whole group as a new skill right there versus uh small group instruction? Like, how do you make that decision?

Lindsay Kemeny:

My phonics, I do my phonics lessons whole group. So there you can do it two different ways, right? You have people that have adults coming into the classroom and they divide everyone up and they're all at different points on a scope and sequence. Um, that can work well, work if it's done well. Um, but also whole group instruction can work well if it's done well as well. So, oh, I just used well a lot of times in that sentence. Um, so I am following our program's scope and sequence. So, and I I usually have to, I usually have to start back. So I'm first grade and I have to review the alphabet at the beginning of the year. Um, every year. So even if my program, that's like a change I a lot of times I make. Like a program might just spend a couple days on the alphabet. My students coming in usually all need a review, even if they know the sounds. Um, most of them are not forming the letters correctly. And so it's really nice because I'm integrating handwriting in there and of course spelling. So um I'm following the scope and sequence of my program. I might need to, I might change some things. I might add a review, or I might say, we got this, we're ready for the next skill, but I'm following that. And then in small group, because you were asking about small group. Um for me, small group is an opportunity to apply what we're learning. So we are it like my first goal there is we're reading connected texts, and some students need a lot of practice with like AI that we just learned or whatever. And some students don't. So I don't need to just give more phonics to those students. Like I'm just gonna give them harder texts in in small group, they don't need another phonics lesson. Some students are gonna need a double dose of what I taught in the phonics lesson. So we really need to practice, you know, that skill again. Does that make sense?

Lori:

Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. And I appreciate that. So the the way you're thinking of it is that um if students are uh adept with the skill that you just taught or doing well with it, then you're giving them uh more advanced text or text that might be more of a challenge for them. Um, and you're reteaching the students perhaps in a different way, or just really just giving them like another repetition of that skill dosage. Right.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah. And the application piece. I think it's just so common that we don't give them enough time to practice the skill. And um, and when I say practice, like I really mean reading texts, which you know is not only gonna have AI words in there, but there's now a mixture, which is harder because they've got to remember things they've taught and going back. And so I think that's really important to give them and with my scaffolding, because that's the other thing. Yes, I'm gonna have them read in in our whole group phonics lesson. And as I like finish, you know, describing the lesson, you'll hear that. But some students need a lot of scaffolding, especially in first grade. And that's what I can't do if I have lots of students in my class, or you know, I want to be able to listen and give feedback to everyone. That is hard to do with whole group, and that's why I love my small group time.

Melissa:

Lindsay, can I ask one more question about before you get into what they do at the desks during phonics? Um, I know last time, or one of the times that you were on, we talked about sound balls. Oh, yeah. And I was just curious, when you introduce the new concept, is that when you might use a soundball if it's necessary or helpful?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah. Yeah. And that's another reason why it's nice where we start at the rug, because if it's like a new phoneme, um, like, you know, TH is one especially that's really especially important because all those first graders come in, uh, have a hard time pronouncing the TH and getting that tongue between their teeth. And so that's something whole group, like we're, I mean, on the rug, we're closer together. I'm like, look at my mouth, where's my teeth? Then we have our sound spelling well right there, look at the mat, look, it's right here. And so, yeah, that's also where that little introduction piece would be with the sound spelling wall. Do you have your students use mirrors as well? I do. I did it more in kindergarten than I do now. So now in first grade, I think I'm just a little more selective about which when we need to use mirrors and when we don't.

Lori:

Okay, I'm gonna take us back to we're at desk, desk, desk, and you're doing dic dictation. Yes. Go ahead.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Uh we move our desks, we do dictation. I do, you know, I'm gonna say, uh, well, I'll I'll share my routine here, which um grew out of a program that I used several years ago called Reading Horizons. Um, my district has adopted a new program now, so I'm kind of I have to do whatever my district tells me to do. But um, but they in the this program, they would have the teacher say the word twice and the students repeat the word twice. And I remember thinking that was so weird at first, like, well, won't they then write the word twice? But they don't, and it's just become this routine. So I'll say the word, like I'll say, okay, cake, cake, and they repeat, cake, cake, k, a k. And then um, and then they'll start writing, and I'm I I'll use it in a sentence like, oh, we had cake for um my brother's birthday yesterday. And then they're just saying, k, aake, okay. But it's so it's really funny because it's such a routine that anytime at any point of the day, if I happen to say a word two times, they would instantly like echo back the word and then segment it. Like that's totally great. It's great. So, but it's such a time saver. I don't have to be like, now tell me the sounds in the word, now you know what's the word, tell me the sounds in the word, now write the word. I don't have to do all that. It's just a routine and we just do it. So it's quick. Um, but this is also like you're asking, so this is all like this is our spelling practice, right? With the concept I'm teaching. So even my more advanced learners, like this is another reason why I wouldn't want to put them further along in the scope and sequence in first grade specifically, because a lot of them, like, yeah, they could read like TCH, they can read it no problem. They have no idea when to use, like for spelling, like the and so, and the handwriting. And so I'm working on all those things. We have dry erase boards, but we have handwriting lines. So we're reinforcing the handwriting and the spelling, and um, you know, while we're also working on learning to read those phonic skills.

Melissa:

That's so funny, Lindsay. My again, my son's first grade, so he's right there with you, and he brings home some, she they send home lists, but I they say they're not the exact lists, you know, it's just samples of words that are like the patterns with the patterns that they're learning. Um, but he always wants to read them. And I'm like, let's try to write them on the whiteboard. And he's like, I just want to read them. Um and I was like, I know because it's easier.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Um okay, and then I'll just quickly go because I'm like, we don't want this whole thing just to be on phonics, right? But so we'll do a sentence dictation, we'll do a high frequency word or review a high frequency word. Um, then I give word lists, like you're describing, Melissa, with that your son brings home, a word list that follow the skill, and they because we did the choral reading together, but I know some students are relying on the class and not doing the work themselves. So we have the word list that they read in partners, we do it for like two minutes, and then we'll read a decodable text. I have a routine for all that. Um, and Then we have our little closing and then we're done. So that's our our phonics lesson.

Melissa:

I love all the routines in there, but I am gonna move us to um a m a messier part of the day, potentially, at least in the way it might be set up. I don't know that there's as many routines, but we're gonna move to like our the comprehension side of things. Um you called it your close reading, Black. Is that right? Yeah. So so what does that look like? Do you have routines for that? Or is is this a little more take it as it comes with each text?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, for sure. Like there are routines. There's not as many routines as like in my phonics lesson. So yes, it can be not as structured, maybe, but it's still so my close reading, and it really doesn't matter what you call it, I call it close reading, but it is the part of the day where I'm focusing more on language comprehension. And the text is at the center here. So all my like lesson steps are built around the text. So it's like, what are we reading and learning about? And then, you know, if I'm teaching, I'm like, of course, we and I know you guys have talked about this too, like, of course, comprehension strategies are important. Um, and I'm teaching those in the service of building knowledge with the text that I have. So it's not just isolated. This week we're gonna do compare contrast, but it's more like we're learning about the people of Mesopotamia and Egypt. And we've been learning about them for a couple of weeks, and now we're gonna be focusing on what's the same and different now, you know. So it's it's all in in the service of that text. And so my lesson steps are like what I do before we read, what we do during reading, and what we do after. So there is still a bit of a structure.

Melissa:

Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about what what kinds of things happen in that before, during, and after? Sure.

Lindsay Kemeny:

So before reading, I'm I'm I'm thinking through is there anything that they need to, like, what do they need to know to really understand this text? Is there anything, is there any background knowledge? Do I need to show on a map where this is? Do I need to connect it with something else that we learned? Um, vocabulary here, like what vocabulary words am I going to teach to prepare them for the text? And then I'm thinking through are they reading the text or am I reading it to them? Because if they're reading it, there might be some words that I need to uh review that might be hard for them to read. Um, during reading, uh, it's kind of like how we're reading. It could be me reading it aloud to them. A lot of times that's how it is in the lower grades, but also we could be choral reading and we could be partner reading or some combination of those. Um, and then it's like the pausing points in the discussion. And um, is there any parts when we read that I'm gonna need to clarify and we're gonna talk about? And then after the text, uh after we read, it's you know, different questions. We're gonna find the gist or main idea of the text. We might be summarizing or retelling it. Um, we might be doing puppets and retelling it with puppets, you know, like there's there's like that can change because it's just kind of depends what we're gonna do after. Cool.

Melissa:

I'm curious about the texts a little bit. And you talk you said that they might vary depending, you know, that some you might read some aloud, they might read some. Um, so this is probably also varied, and you'll say depends on the text. But I'm just wondering like, are these texts that you read in one lesson with them and then you move on to another text? Are these texts you spend, you know, weeks on? I'm just curious, like in first grade, especially, what kinds of texts you're you're reading here?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, so a little like um, so what my district does have a program, so I'm following the program and they basically have a new read aloud every day. Um, but there will be opportunities to go back and review one on certain days or review days. Um, but I also bring in like physical texts, like I'm saying physical because a lot of it is read aloud, so the students don't have the text in their hands, but I've also like been um collecting books, like for example, I told you we're talking about Egypt. I collected little like books on pyramids, like National Geographic, I think it is for kids or something. Um so that and that we might spend a couple days reading that, right? And they're and you know, depending on if they're ready, they we could be choral reading that, or I could still just be reading it to them and they're tracking with the finger. So it really depends, but we are spending multiple days on a topic. So we might have, you know, like it's Egypt or it's fairy tales. Um, you know, we did, you know, like three different fairy tales that were all like different versions of Cinderella. And so we're gonna spend a few days on that. And then of course I'm gonna pull in other books that I have where I'm like, you know, there's a lot of great trade books with different versions of Cinderella. So I'm gonna pull in those and do, you know, things. So um, yeah, does that kind of answer your question? It so it varies basically.

Melissa:

Yeah, but that was that was my next question was like, even if you move quickly from the text, do they get to read more about that same topic, which you already answered.

Lindsay Kemeny:

So yeah. And that's what's so great. I do love how we're diving a little deeper into topics, right? And it's it's really kind of exciting. And even at first, myself, I was a little like unsure. There are certain topics in the program that I'm like, oh, that seems boring, you know. This always happens. I know. And then it was such a good lesson to me because I like I specifically remember last year and I was like reading this text of like about, you know, I can't remember. It might have been like the Maya or the Aztecs or something. Um, and it wasn't something I was necessarily really excited about, but I was, but I always try to fake it, right? Like, but I looked out and there was just like, I just remember this one little student who was just like wide-eyed, like just fully engrossed. And I'm like, oh my gosh. And then like another student was like, My mom's a history teacher, and I love going home and telling her, like, she loves hearing what we're learning. And I was just like, oh my gosh, it was such a good lesson to me that just because I find a topic boring does not mean that they're going to. And so now I just try to like every topic that I'm like, I try to give it my all because some of them are just going to love it, you know?

Melissa:

Yeah. I keep bringing my son up, sorry, because he's first grade too. But yeah, some of the library books he brings home. I'm like, minerals? That's the library book you picked. And he's like, Yeah, mom, let's let's go. Okay. And same as I'm sure, like as a teacher, you'd feel the same way. Like, well, do they really want to learn about minerals? Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny:

But he's excited. Yeah, that's my son with black holes. It was like years. I'm like, really? Yeah, okay, whatever. But it's fun when they get those passions. So it's fun to be able as a teacher, like, I can ignite that, you know.

Melissa:

Yeah, for sure. And I'm I'm like hearing a lot in this close reading block that there's a little bit of a mixture too, because you're if they're getting some practice reading, you know, they might be putting some of those foundational reading skills into place, maybe even going into some fluency with partner reading. And so they're getting some of that practice. And then they're also, even through your read alouds, getting all of this, you know, rich vocabulary, rich knowledge. And so they're kind of putting a lot of a lot of pieces together here. I'm wondering about some more pieces that you probably do, um, which is discussion and writing. I'm assuming this probably happens. You mentioned a little bit with especially the after reading. Can you talk a little more about that?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah. So yeah, for sure, we'll have discussion during and after we read. And then, yeah, our writing. So then I have like a 30-minute writing lesson, and it's right after close reading because we're writing about the topics that we're learning about. So yeah, it's definitely connected. And so I will like come up with a prompt and uh at the beginning of the week, and then and that prompt is related to what we're reading about. And a lot of times, what the comprehension like um objectives in our lessons make really good prompts. So a lot of times the like the prompts, the writing prompts that the our programs I feel like provide are not really that great. Or um, or there's like no instruction. It's like, now that we've read a fable, have them write a fable. And I'm like, oh, okay, well, that's like easier said than done, you know?

Lori:

Like that's like a whole like week-long thing, if not more, right?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Well, yeah. And it's and it's like sounds fun in theory, right? Yeah. So a lot of times those um, so like for example, I mentioned this, like the comprehension objective in our lesson was um that students would be able to compare and contrast the people of Mesopotamia and Egypt. Hey, that is a perfect writing prompt. So that was our writing prompt, right? We're gonna go into like our next unit is on astronomy. And so I'll be able to do like explain what you know about the moon or explain some facts about the moon, um, you know, and different things that we're reading about. It just it's great to tie it together. It helps their reading comprehension and it helps their writing.

unknown:

Yeah.

Lori:

And I'm assuming with writing, Lindsay, you know, there are different routines that you might use. Is that dependent on the prompt? Is it dependent on what they're writing about? Can you say more about that?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, so I'm taking like, yes, we have a whole approach to writing. Um, shout out to Think SRSD because that's where I've learned about this. But they're taking us through, like I'm taking my students through the writing cycle throughout the week. And so we we have like, it's very routine because they know, okay, we're going to pick our ideas, we're going to organize them, then we're going to write, you know? And so I'm we're doing that over and over. And so that becomes like they can really internalize that and then do it themselves at any time. So there's a lot of, and I'll just say, like this chapter, my book, if you want to like it goes all through that, like what you know, kind of what we do and how I take them through a week. We write on that same prompt, usually the whole week. It's flexible, it might go into the second week, right? But it's like, um, there's a lot of, and it's fun, and there's songs, and they, and because you're teaching them the routines, it makes it so they can do it on their own, which is like the whole point.

Lori:

Yeah. Routines make the world go round. Yeah. No, routines are not boring. Yeah, definitely not.

Melissa:

Can I ask you a quick question, Lindsay, about spelling? I'm just curious because first graders are kind of right in that, like, I mean, they're in the middle of if you're doing foundational skills program K2, they're kind of in the middle. So they haven't learned everything for how to spell. Like they haven't learned all the the you know, patterns yet. So do you let them kind of guess as they're writing? Not guess. I shouldn't say guess. Invented spelling, yeah. I guess, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, because my son does a lot of that, and I think it's actually kind of great sometimes. I'm like, that's I'm glad that you came up with that because that that's not actually how you spell it, but I can see how you got there. Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Okay, I think it's really important to allow for that estimated spelling because estimated spelling. Yeah, that's because they are using their phonemic awareness there. And the students that really struggle with phonemic awareness, they are the ones that want to bypass that step at all costs. And they're always like, How do you spell it? How do you spell it? How do you spell it? And they don't want to think about that because it's hard. It's hard to go, okay. And you don't want to be wrong, right?

Melissa:

A lot of kids don't want to be wrong.

Lori:

Yeah, they don't want to be wrong too. And and wrong like on paper, actually, you're writing it down. That's a big you can see the wrongness.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yes, yeah, that's true. And so I I think it's important not to put too much pressure on it for that. And I'm telling them, um, so when we're doing our writing lesson, especially at the beginning of the year, um, well, and now too, we're in November when we're recording this, but um, we're doing a lot of it whole class, like we're doing it together, and then we're slowly like I'm pulling back, pulling back, pulling back. So this like this week, they were doing the writing more on their own. It's an easier topic because we're just gonna write what we're thankful for, and um, and I want to see what they can do on their own. And then next week when we start astronomy, we'll go back into doing something all together. Um, so I'll model, we'll sound out together, stretch out the words. Um, so when they're writing on their own, um, like they like we were doing for our thankful writing, I'm like, I write the sounds you hear. I want to know. Like, write the sounds you hear. Don't worry, don't worry if it's not right, that's okay. You know, and just having this whole attitude where it's not like I'm gonna get their paper back and I'm gonna put big red marks on every single one they spelled wrong. I am going to look carefully if there are high frequency words that I have taught um that they're spelling wrong. I want to, I want to, um, I might not, I probably wouldn't mark each one, but I make a note of it and then I'm gonna work on that with that student because I don't want them to keep writing what W-U-T over and over because that's gonna become a habit um for for them that might be hard to to break. Um, and especially if I've taught it. Remember, remember for our spelling voice, we say what for this word. Remember our spelling voice? You know, and they have like a lot of them will, you know, have these little things that help them remember.

Melissa:

I'm sure it's really helpful for you to see their writing. Yeah.

Lori:

Is the spelling voice like um a voice you might use to phonetically spell? Is that what you're talking about?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah. So, like for um, so and we will like analyze the words, like the for the word done. Yeah, what does it look like if we, you know, what does that look like it would be spelled or how we would say it? It looks like don't. Yeah, it looks like don't. And even if you sounded that out and said when you're reading and said don't, and then you're like, that's not a word. Oh yeah, done. You know, like that is great. And so um, my kids have a lot of fun with that. Like when we're like they love that. Like, whenever I would say, like, would we review high frequency words for like many, and they'd be like, Manny, like, and they would just remember, like as soon as they said, okay, let's review the word many, they'd be like, Manny, and they think it's funny. Um, friend is fry end. And so we just kind of say it like, oh, so I just use the term like your spelling voice, you know. Um, but yeah, I don't worry, like if they write station and it has the S-H-U-N, awesome. And it also telling them just write the sounds you hear also helps me see when I'm looking at the writing, it's like and it helps me see what I need that what that student needs. So, oh my gosh, maybe they're missing a lot of sounds. So we need to work on blending it's you know, our segmenting words with those ending blends or beginning blends or whatever, you know, whatever it is.

Lori:

Yeah. So I'm picturing you, Lindsay, just really looking at, you know, the spelling and and even using it as an opportunity then to make notes on what you're going to teach in small group and potentially also what students are going to work on in centers. So I'm hoping we can transition into that part of your day now. Um, and you can get kind of give a brief overview of how you small groups and centers. Um, and I I'd like to kind of talk about the both parts of this, right? Like you with your student or students at your table. And then also, as we all know, what the other students are doing. That is like the number one question on everybody's mind always.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah. Okay. So, but let me before we go into that, let me say one more thing on the writing. So when I'm looking at like their writing, because we're writing these paragraphs basically each um each week. So I I want to emphasize the content and structure of the writing before like the spelling and the capitalization and periods, just because, like for that reason, um, if I'm always like hounding and being like, look at all these words you spelled wrong right away. I I mean, one thing is that's gonna be hard on them. They're gonna more be more resistant to write in the future. And I really want to focus on the content and making sure they understand how to structure their writing. And I could say, wow, you did so look at the sentence that you did, and look at this million-dollar word that you included. That is such a good word, um, versus them saying, I don't want to use the word enormous because I don't know how to spell it. So I'm just gonna use the word big, right? So, like we celebrate some of those other things before I'm and and so you know, I look at the writing and and and you have a tendency as a teacher to be like, oh my gosh, I want to just correct every single thing, but you've got to choose like one or two things to focus on. So, anyway, that that's just what I wanted to say.

Lori:

No, I'm so glad you said that. I'm also really glad that you brought up the idea of celebrating the stretch, right? Like instead of just saying big because I can spell it. I mean, that that really is a skill that's gonna take them through life. You know what I mean? Like, oh, just because I mean, even I was working with my own uh daughter last night. We were working on an essay, and you know, I I was she was like, Oh, I used this word a couple of times and I I don't know another one for it. And I was like, Okay, so we're gonna like Google synonyms for X word. And then she like I said, like, what you know, here's some choices. What do you think? And she chose a word that I just had never even heard before. And I was like, Are you choosing like, do you even know this word? And she's like, Yeah, I do. My teacher says it a couple, yeah, all the time. He said it about this book. So I'm gonna use it. And I was like, I I wish I remembered the word. This is how much it just went right in and out my ears. Um, but I I was like, Yeah, great. Like, let's use this word. That's awesome. And you have to celebrate that stretch because they're gonna take that with. I mean, that's something you want. You want that student who's in your class who chose enormous to when they hit college, you know, choose whatever word is the stretch word for them to put in their essay and celebrate that and just be able to celebrate that themselves. And you know, in that moment.

Lindsay Kemeny:

And it reminds me, um, okay, Dr. Louisa Motz came to my classroom last uh last May, which was so incredible. But she just like no big deal. Yeah, just no, though, oh my gosh, like can you imagine? I couldn't sleep the night before, but it was like it was so surreal to be teaching and then look up and like, oh, there's Dr. Motes, like listening to me in the corner. Um, but something, you know, when we were doing writing and she was walking around, and gosh, I I wish I could remember the word. Um, there was some very advanced word that one of my students had used, and they were at this point, it was it's May, they're writing independently, and I'm walking around it kind of helping. And she came over to me to be like, this little guy just used, you know, this word. I can't even remember what it was, really advanced word. Um, it wasn't like, oh, he spelled it wrong. Do you know what I mean? It was like, wow, this is what great vocabulary. That is amazing, you know. So that's kind of neat. And then, but also I was um with that writing. So if I noticed several of my students like spelled what wrong, and I'm like, okay, several, but I know that when I do this and I review on our whiteboards during phonics, and they I know they all spell it right. And then I'm like, okay, I'm gonna put that word in our sentence dictation because that's where the breakdown. Kind of happening when you know, and there's like a little scaffold. So isolated the word what they can remember the WH and then the A. But uh then in a sentence, especially you know, putting that in, there's more to think about. There's another little scaffold in a practice to get them ready for just writing on their own and being able to apply it.

Lori:

I love that. That's such a good tip, too, right? If you're listening and you're like, okay, I'm noticing my and also sometimes I feel like there's no rhyme or reason to that if you're not like really intentionally noticing, like, okay, so in isolation, they can do this. It's when I redo a dictation or when they're writing um, you know, a full paragraph or a couple sentences, depending on your grade. Yeah, you can make that bridge, make that scaffold right there for them. That's so I love that. Thank you for sharing that, Lizzie.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Okay, and now to small group. There's a lot of different ways you can do small group. And in fact, on this, in this chapter in my book, Rocky Literacy Block, I was like, I hope no one gets a headache after reading this chapter. I got a little bit of a headache trying to explain it because I'm like, there's like three different versions of like what you could do. And I just I wanted to give everyone the option of like hear some suggestions, and then you can like you can kind of modify those, right? Um, so it there's uh I love my small group. Like I said, it is so important to me to get to know all my students as readers and understand, hey, what are they good at? What do they need to work on? And this is harder to do in the whole group. And some students, especially in first and those lower grades, they need a lot of scaffolding to help them as they begin reading. Like, yeah, you have some that can blend, no problem, but others they can identify those sounds, but they have a really hard time blending the CBC word, and it takes a lot of scaffolding from me. So that's why I really love small group because now here I have like maybe four or five students at a time, and I'm listening in and I can help and I can scaffold. But there is an opportunity cost here because it is like, what are the other students doing? And I don't want it to be a waste of time for them. And yes, it's great if I can have more people in my room helping me, but the reality is we don't all have that luxury, right? And even if, you know, they're like, well, there's other adults that, well, the other adults in the building have their jobs to do too. They can't always just come in. So it kind of depends on like your resources. So so that's why, like in this chapter, I kind of share, hey, if you can get parent help, um, here's like one way you could do this. If you have no one, here's a way you could do this, you know, that kind of thing. So um I have so for small group, I use our assessment data first of all to kind of make my groups, uh, like at the beginning of the year. And then I'm gonna use informal data to adjust. And how I think of it as different, like the groups have kind of different focus. So I might have a group that's focusing on still learning the alphabet. Like they might not know their whole alphabet, especially if you're kindergarten teacher. You're here at the beginning of the year, you know, that in first grade, I might have a group that's focused on that. I am gonna have, especially in first grade, uh, most of the students are gonna be in like my decoding group. And that is just like we are full on, we are practicing uh applying the phonic skills in uh connected text, right? In a text. And then I have students who, you know, they they pick up the phonic skills very easily, and they're and we're working on fluency. I have a fluent group where we're working on fluency. It doesn't mean we're not working on that in the other groups because of course we know these things are connected. It's just like in my head, that is our focus. And then we have um, we might have some students that are, wow, they are fluent already. Um, and the focus is just we're building knowledge, we're we're giving them harder texts and we're working on, you know, vocabulary and building knowledge and those comprehensive strategies and just like harder text, right? So like we're stretching them. And of course, like I'm I'm just like I was telling another teacher this because she was having questions like, I don't know if they would be in this group or this group. And I'm like, don't like, don't make it too, I mean, there is definitely blurred lines between these, right? Um, so it doesn't need to be like so, and of course, I'm switching students and whatever, and it's more kind of like, what text are we reading? Uh of course, my alphabet group, we're gonna do need to spend a little more time reviewing alphabet sounds or whatever before and doing a very beginner decodable text. Whereas the others we can dive more into just reading the reading the text. So um, so yeah, so some students are gonna be in highly decodable text, some students are in less decodable text, and some students were transitioning into regular text. It just kind of depends on the time of the year and the students. So, um, and then you want me to talk about what the other students are doing, right?

Lori:

Absolutely. That's what I want to know. What are they all doing? And they're just like an abyss of students out there, Lindsay. What are they doing?

Lindsay Kemeny:

I just ignore them. No, I'm just kidding. Um just like, have fun, guys. I'm working with you for it.

Lori:

They're just like they started a band, they're just playing music, they're doing something.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Um, so okay, like back in the day, my centers were very complicated. And um, and uh now it's they're just it's very simple. I like simple centers. I don't like to do a lot of prep work for my centers because there's already a lot of planning and prep that go into all the other parts of the day. Um, so I keep it simple. I have um a reading center, okay? Everyone in the reading center has the opportunity to listen to audiobooks. Uh so that is, especially in lower grades, a great use of their time. We use the app Get Epic. Uh, they can listen to books that align with the topics that we're studying, or they can just choose other ones too. Um, I also have this great classroom library, and they can choose books to look at um or read because we all know their levels are a little different. So this is this um center is gonna be about 10 or 15 minutes. So let's say I see a student pulling out um a book um that they can't read that I have read to them, right? And you're gonna have some people that are like, what a waste of time, you know. But I'm like, when does like this student doesn't have all these books at home? When do they get some time just to browse and look at all these beautiful, you know, books that are available to them? And they pull out one that I've read and they're looking at the pictures and they're they're like they show and they're kind of maybe repeating what they've heard me say or kind of telling it back. Hey, that's great for their for their oral language. Um, and it's just a positive experience with books, which I love. Uh then also it's really kind of fun because naturally they will, as they learn to read, they start reading these or trying to read words. Or yesterday in my class, I had two little boys and they both chose the exact same book. They both chose Pete the Cat because I had a couple copies, and then they were reading it together aloud. And um, and it was so cute, and they were able to read it, and then one was a little stronger than the other. So when the one couldn't, you know, get a word, it was okay because he his partner said it. And, you know, I had to tell him a couple of times, you guys gotta be a little more quiet because they were really getting into like, I love my white shoes, I love my white shoes, I love my white shoes. But like, it was so great. So um, like I I'm okay. Like, I of course I love when they're listening to books. I love when they're reading. They are reading, like they were reading the Pete the Cat. But I'm actually okay if if initially they're just looking through all these books I have and they're looking through them because you know what? It's it's a little down part of the day. I know that we've had a lot of serious instruction, it's a ton of work the rest of the day. And like, I'm okay. Uh, here's like 10 minutes just to relax a little and look through a book.

Lori:

Lindsay, when you're saying that, you know, it's making me think of one of the things that I find so joyful as an adult is going to the library and just uh like literally just looking. Like I I like to get books when I go to the library, but I like to pull out books and just kind of read the back or flip through, or like if it's a you know, I think I got the last time I went, I this like book that was called like food gifts. And I'm like, oh cute, because like Christmas is coming up and like what I maybe I'll do a food gift. I'm not even a baker, but I got the book, right? Like it's just it's just something that I'm like, oh, and then there's uh you just flip through and you just feel like relaxed, it's just joyful. And I love that, I love that you shared that and that you give your students the opportunity to do that.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, that's like my little soapbox, I guess, right? But yeah, like they don't have the time and they might not have a parent that takes them to the library and they might not have books at home. And when they go home, maybe they're just on the TV or the iPad, you know, like so it's just also about building these positive experiences. You know, I have a I do have a technology center, we have a reading software, um, we're using Lexia right now, my whole district. I really love it. Um, and so that's great. It differentiates for me. It's um, you know, it teaches, it teaches them phonics, they're on, you know, it's they're all at kind of different points, teaches them other things. Like I had another little boy who came up to me and was like, Mrs. Kemene, Mrs. Kemene, I have something uh we we could add in our writing. And I was like, really? What? And he said, I forget what it's called, but it's like when you um when you go to the up to uh on a diving board, but then you get cold feet and you don't want to um jump in. And I was like, Oh, like an idiom? And he's like, Yeah, an idiom. And I thought we could add idioms in our writing, like he's talking about in our writing lesson when we're doing our writing. Oh my gosh. And so I was like blown away, and like the rest of the story is like he actually did, and you know, like when I do writing webinars, like I'll or presentations, I'll share. But um, but I was like, where the heck did he learn about idioms? Because I had not taught that, and it was in Lexia. So I was like, oh my gosh, it's great. Okay, so then I have a technology center, so we have a reading center, like I said, I don't think that's a waste of time. The uh technology center, I don't think that's a waste of time either. And then I have um a writing center, which um it's either they if we're independent with our writing at this point, then they're choosing, then they're finishing like some of the writing we started in our writing lesson. Um, or they might be just choosing a paper and doing kind of their own free write. A lot of them will make let like write letters to a parent or something. Um, and then if I have a parent volunteer, some years I do and some years I don't. If I have a parent volunteer, I have them do run a little group with like phonics games. I just I usually don't do that without a parent volunteer because that is the center where they will get off task or they'll like someone can't lose and then they get really upset. And so it's always like helpful if I have an adult there. So that that's kind of what the other students are doing and a little bit about what I'm doing.

Lori:

Yeah, that resonates. Uh, I remember using the Florida Center for Reading Research Resources to create some games. And very quickly I was like, these are gonna have to be take-home games because I didn't have a parent. I was like, we're just gonna send these home. We're not going to do these in class, or they're gonna have to be moderated games by me. Yeah.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Well, I remember like in kindergarten, I had just really cute little things where they could match. I remember had these stones. They match the uppercase letter with the lowercase letter, you know, and they're supposed to match them. And I remember looking over and someone's just stacking the stones, you know, and I was just like, huh, okay. And then um, and then during COVID, we're like, please nobody walk in right now to do an observation. Like, well, it's fine motor, right? Uh, we're just doing motor skills over there. Um uh in during COVID, we had to get rid of that center because we couldn't share any like materials or anything. And and that's when I was like, I don't really miss that center. It's like that is that's fine. Like, you know what I mean? And then my students like didn't do any worse for it. So I was like, okay, that's one I can cut out unless I have a parent and I want them to do a little. Yeah. Yeah.

Lori:

So I feel like your biggest takeaway for teachers listening is like, keep it simple, keep it simple, keep it simple. And I I always like the uh little mantra, review nothing new in centers where students are not with me, right? Like it's nothing new. It's super simple. And it also isn't, I don't assume it's for a massive amount of time. Right.

Lindsay Kemeny:

No. So like it can be anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes. My normal is 45 minutes. This is also though, my students will get some of my students get pulled out at my school. We have like an intervention in uh that they get pulled out in. And so those students won't get to go to all the centers, but that's okay because they're getting more of what they need. So they might get pulled out for like 20 minutes and then they come back into the classroom and then I meet with them. So they're getting intervention from both me and someone else. And then there might just only be a little bit of time left for them to do one of the centers. So yeah.

Melissa:

Well, you have given us so much to think about for teachers and their blocks and what to include, and just, I mean, literacy instruction in general. But before we wrap up totally, I wanted to ask you what is one key takeaway from your book, Rock Your Literacy Block, that you want teachers to remember?

Lindsay Kemeny:

Um, I would say there's not one perfect way to run your block. And, you know, I think in the book, because there's not one perfect way, like in the book at the end of each chapter, I share this good, better, best. Like, here's what's good. Here's something good to do during, you know, your writing instruction. Here's what makes it better, here's what makes it best. And it's always, and and there's even like more ways to improve than that, right? So there's different ways. I just say, you know, focus on your progress, not perfection. None of us are perfect. Um, even how I describe something today on the podcast and in my book, you might have a better way of doing it. And it's great. But if we continue to share ideas with each other and be open, you know, our instruction can only get better. And so I would just say, try not to get overwhelmed. There's even one part of the day where I'm like, in the book, I'm like, yeah, I'm somewhere between good and better right now. And I'm okay with that on this part of the day. Like, we'll work towards best later, but right now, this is all I can handle. And, you know, that's like, as teachers, that's what we need to do. Focus on one thing, get, you know, and then add something else. And then when you're ready, add something else. So focus on progress, not perfection.

Melissa:

Thank you so much for that, Lindsay. I I mean, I think that's why teachers love your books and love hearing you on our podcast because I mean, you've always done this, even I mean, we've had you on years ago, and you just like you're like, this is what I do in my classroom. I just want to like share it and tell everybody and like, you know, let other people hear what I do. But you always have said that, you know, like I'm not saying this is the only way to do it. I'm not saying it's the best way. I can still learn. Um, and so thank you for always um being so open and sharing with our listeners and with us. And thank you for being on so many times and sharing.

Lindsay Kemeny:

Yeah, thank you for having me, you guys. I love you guys. I love your podcast, and it was so fun to be on again.

Lori:

Yeah. Well, I hope everyone feels like they can rock their literacy block after this. Yes. For sure.

Melissa:

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Lori:

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Melissa:

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Lori:

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