Ep. 37: Placing Text at the Center of the ELA Classroom with Meredith Liben & Sue Pimentel

The article Placing Text at the Center of the Standards-Aligned ELA Classroom is a must-read before or after listening to this podcast!  

Meredith Liben and Sue Pimentel share the true intentions of the CCSS vs. the way they are currently interpreted. They also provide observations about how the Standards play out in classrooms and schools - within HQIM and what happens in absence of HQIM! 

We ask the gals some tough questions: 

• What does this mean for assessment, especially "data-driven" instruction?
• What are better ways to assess and track student progress? 

They are hilarious and smart, and so very relatable. This one is a MUST listen!

Read the article that prompted this conversation:
Placing Text at the Center of the Standards-Aligned ELA Classroom

Visit our website and subscribe to our newsletter. 

Follow us!

• Facebook and join our Facebook Group 
• Twitter 
• Instagram 

We answer your questions about teaching reading in The Literacy 50-A Q&A Handbook for Teachers: Real-World Answers to Questions About Reading That Keep You Up at Night.

Grab free resources and episode alerts! Sign up for our email list at literacypodcast.com.

Join our community on Facebook, and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, & Twitter.

Transcript

1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,490
[MUSIC] Welcome teacher friend.

2
00:00:02,490 --> 00:00:04,635
I'm Lori and I'm Melissa.

3
00:00:04,635 --> 00:00:07,545
We are two literacy
educators in Baltimore.

4
00:00:07,545 --> 00:00:11,235
We want the best for all
kids and we know you do too.

5
00:00:11,235 --> 00:00:14,970
Our district recently adopted
a new literacy curriculum,

6
00:00:14,970 --> 00:00:18,105
which meant a lot of
change for everyone.

7
00:00:18,105 --> 00:00:19,500
Lori and I can't wait to

8
00:00:19,500 --> 00:00:20,970
keep learning about
literacy with

9
00:00:20,970 --> 00:00:26,490
you today. Hi everyone.

10
00:00:26,490 --> 00:00:30,195
Welcome to Melissa & Lori
Love Literacy podcast.

11
00:00:30,195 --> 00:00:35,865
We are thrilled to talk today
to a new literacy friend.

12
00:00:35,865 --> 00:00:38,190
We cannot wait to
hear everything she

13
00:00:38,190 --> 00:00:40,860
has to say about, oh my gosh,

14
00:00:40,860 --> 00:00:44,195
knowledge, about oral reading,

15
00:00:44,195 --> 00:00:45,875
about oral language and

16
00:00:45,875 --> 00:00:47,135
all the things
knowledge building.

17
00:00:47,135 --> 00:00:49,220
Melissa, I know you're
really excited too.

18
00:00:49,220 --> 00:00:50,765
Yeah. Today we have

19
00:00:50,765 --> 00:00:53,920
Sonia Cabell and we're
really excited to have her.

20
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,840
I'm really excited because I

21
00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:58,250
feel like I'm seeing more

22
00:00:58,250 --> 00:00:59,840
and more of this
idea of science,

23
00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,480
of reading and people saying
it's just the phonics,

24
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:03,620
it's just the decoding, it's

25
00:01:03,620 --> 00:01:05,975
just word recognition
and I love that.

26
00:01:05,975 --> 00:01:07,700
Sonia is doing research right

27
00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:10,070
now [LAUGHTER] about
the other side

28
00:01:10,070 --> 00:01:11,840
of the reading rope about

29
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:13,040
the language
comprehension and she's

30
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,080
going to tell us
all about it today.

31
00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:16,995
Welcome Sonia.

32
00:01:16,995 --> 00:01:18,630
Thank you. I'm
excited to be here.

33
00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:20,025
Thank you for having me.

34
00:01:20,025 --> 00:01:21,500
Yeah. Oh my gosh. We're so

35
00:01:21,500 --> 00:01:23,240
glad that you said yes
to podcasting with us.

36
00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:24,920
We are thrilled to talk with you

37
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,095
because we could talk
knowledge building all day.

38
00:01:27,095 --> 00:01:30,560
[LAUGHTER] Yes, I'm so

39
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,060
excited to be here and I love

40
00:01:32,060 --> 00:01:34,680
the back-and-forth you
have with your guests.

41
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,835
I'm excited to be
a part of that.

42
00:01:36,835 --> 00:01:39,020
Would you mind
starting us off with

43
00:01:39,020 --> 00:01:40,310
just a little bit
about yourself?

44
00:01:40,310 --> 00:01:42,440
We know you have a really
interesting story.

45
00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:43,280
I think anyway.

46
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,125
Anyone who is a
second grade teacher

47
00:01:45,125 --> 00:01:47,480
automatically has a great story.

48
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,465
[LAUGHTER] Thank you. Well,

49
00:01:50,465 --> 00:01:52,940
currently I'm an
Associate Professor.

50
00:01:52,940 --> 00:01:56,930
I'm sorry, I just
demoted myself.

51
00:01:56,930 --> 00:01:59,660
[LAUGHTER] I'm an
associate professor at

52
00:01:59,660 --> 00:02:01,460
Florida State University
in the School of

53
00:02:01,460 --> 00:02:03,380
Teacher Education and in

54
00:02:03,380 --> 00:02:05,330
the Florida Center
for Reading Research.

55
00:02:05,330 --> 00:02:07,475
My work focuses on

56
00:02:07,475 --> 00:02:11,120
studying the prevention of
reading difficulties and

57
00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,540
really about how children
develop and how we

58
00:02:14,540 --> 00:02:18,170
can help them develop
strong language skills,

59
00:02:18,170 --> 00:02:20,765
strong language
comprehension early on.

60
00:02:20,765 --> 00:02:23,895
My work also focuses
on integrating

61
00:02:23,895 --> 00:02:26,480
and developing those
language skills

62
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,090
through content
instruction as well.

63
00:02:29,090 --> 00:02:34,755
I did start as a second
grade teacher in Oklahoma.

64
00:02:34,755 --> 00:02:37,280
I then became a reading coach

65
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,065
during the Reading First era.

66
00:02:39,065 --> 00:02:42,125
I was reading first coach

67
00:02:42,125 --> 00:02:45,460
in both Oklahoma
and in Virginia.

68
00:02:45,460 --> 00:02:48,130
I love the primary
grades, in fact,

69
00:02:48,130 --> 00:02:49,715
I think one of you

70
00:02:49,715 --> 00:02:51,740
is a middle school
teacher, Melissa are you?

71
00:02:51,740 --> 00:02:53,450
Yeah. That was me. Yeah.

72
00:02:53,450 --> 00:02:57,430
My hats off to anybody who
can teach third grade and up.

73
00:02:57,430 --> 00:03:00,480
[LAUGHTER] Especially middle
school to me middle school

74
00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,570
was the scariest time
of my personal life.

75
00:03:05,170 --> 00:03:08,780
I really focus on the
younger grades and

76
00:03:08,780 --> 00:03:10,580
the primary grades and
really about laying

77
00:03:10,580 --> 00:03:13,235
a foundation for later
literacy learning.

78
00:03:13,235 --> 00:03:15,770
Then when I was in Virginia,

79
00:03:15,770 --> 00:03:20,764
I found out about the
doctoral program.

80
00:03:20,764 --> 00:03:23,090
Actually through a book I
would use in the classroom.

81
00:03:23,090 --> 00:03:25,460
I used Words Their Way at
the time in the classroom.

82
00:03:25,460 --> 00:03:28,860
Yeah. Marcia Invernizzi
was one of the authors.

83
00:03:28,930 --> 00:03:31,190
I met with her at University of

84
00:03:31,190 --> 00:03:32,600
Virginia and I learned what

85
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,755
a PhD program was all
about. I had no idea.

86
00:03:35,755 --> 00:03:42,530
I thought to myself
in order to do a PhD,

87
00:03:42,530 --> 00:03:45,080
you had to first be like
a principal and I'm like,

88
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:46,775
I'm never going to be a
principal of a school.

89
00:03:46,775 --> 00:03:49,190
Maybe I'm never going to get
my PhD. That's not true.

90
00:03:49,190 --> 00:03:52,490
For anybody out there who
might think that you first

91
00:03:52,490 --> 00:03:56,465
have to be a principal
to get your PhD.

92
00:03:56,465 --> 00:03:58,775
That is not true at all.

93
00:03:58,775 --> 00:04:00,680
Yeah, I studied Reading

94
00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:02,710
Education there at the
University of Virginia.

95
00:04:02,710 --> 00:04:05,835
That's so cool. You just jumped
right into that program?

96
00:04:05,835 --> 00:04:11,090
I did. I had my masters
in reading education.

97
00:04:11,090 --> 00:04:15,375
I was always really
interested in reading.

98
00:04:15,375 --> 00:04:18,395
Because I think reading and
teaching kids to read lays

99
00:04:18,395 --> 00:04:21,635
a foundation for everything.

100
00:04:21,635 --> 00:04:24,140
When I was a second
grade teacher,

101
00:04:24,140 --> 00:04:26,210
reading was always one of

102
00:04:26,210 --> 00:04:30,010
the critically most
important things to teach.

103
00:04:30,010 --> 00:04:34,400
There was a particular child
that still sticks in my mind

104
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:40,090
who I couldn't help.

105
00:04:40,190 --> 00:04:45,335
She wasn't able to
retain the learning.

106
00:04:45,335 --> 00:04:48,085
She was in second grade

107
00:04:48,085 --> 00:04:51,265
and she really
couldn't read it all,

108
00:04:51,265 --> 00:04:53,660
couldn't decode any words.

109
00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,149
Unfortunately, I
would use practices

110
00:04:57,149 --> 00:05:00,850
that we know now are not
scientifically based,

111
00:05:00,850 --> 00:05:04,390
like drilling with flashcards
and things like this.

112
00:05:04,390 --> 00:05:06,415
She didn't retain any of that.

113
00:05:06,415 --> 00:05:09,700
I was wondering like,
what do we do with her?

114
00:05:09,700 --> 00:05:15,295
I feel like that is one
person who has stuck with me,

115
00:05:15,295 --> 00:05:17,740
that made me think about

116
00:05:17,740 --> 00:05:20,350
wanting to get my masters
and wanting to get

117
00:05:20,350 --> 00:05:22,480
my PhD in reading
education and how can we

118
00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,650
help students learn to read.

119
00:05:25,650 --> 00:05:28,150
When I got into my
doctoral program,

120
00:05:28,150 --> 00:05:29,630
I really began to be

121
00:05:29,630 --> 00:05:31,940
interested through
Laura Justice's work.

122
00:05:31,940 --> 00:05:33,650
Dr. Laura Justice is now at

123
00:05:33,650 --> 00:05:35,120
the Ohio State University

124
00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,495
and she's an early
childhood researcher.

125
00:05:38,495 --> 00:05:41,195
Through working with her

126
00:05:41,195 --> 00:05:44,300
during my doctoral program
and learning from her,

127
00:05:44,300 --> 00:05:46,700
I became interested in
the prevention of reading

128
00:05:46,700 --> 00:05:50,150
difficulties and
intervening in preschool.

129
00:05:50,150 --> 00:05:53,285
Particularly how
important language

130
00:05:53,285 --> 00:05:55,160
and developing oral
language skills

131
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,080
are to all aspects of

132
00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,890
reading and particularly
to language comprehension.

133
00:06:00,890 --> 00:06:04,190
Yeah, that's exactly what I
was going to ask you next.

134
00:06:04,190 --> 00:06:06,275
I pulled out a quote from,

135
00:06:06,275 --> 00:06:08,450
I forget exactly which
article that you sent us.

136
00:06:08,450 --> 00:06:10,055
[LAUGHTER] It said,

137
00:06:10,055 --> 00:06:11,990
the knowledge that we
bring to a text is

138
00:06:11,990 --> 00:06:15,515
the key determinant in how
much we understand that text.

139
00:06:15,515 --> 00:06:17,690
I was just thinking,

140
00:06:17,690 --> 00:06:19,070
how did you get from,

141
00:06:19,070 --> 00:06:21,065
you're in grad school to,

142
00:06:21,065 --> 00:06:23,450
you're interested in helping
students learn how to read

143
00:06:23,450 --> 00:06:26,460
to that focus on knowledge?

144
00:06:26,460 --> 00:06:27,950
That's a really
good question and

145
00:06:27,950 --> 00:06:29,345
it's quite a story actually.

146
00:06:29,345 --> 00:06:31,805
[LAUGHTER] I do
want to say though,

147
00:06:31,805 --> 00:06:35,090
that I can't take credit
for that wonderful quote.

148
00:06:35,090 --> 00:06:37,250
I think it was
Anderson and Pearson.

149
00:06:37,250 --> 00:06:38,510
I think [OVERLAPPING],
yeah. [LAUGHTER].

150
00:06:38,510 --> 00:06:41,045
I actually wrote it

151
00:06:41,045 --> 00:06:43,220
down and I thought Melissa read

152
00:06:43,220 --> 00:06:45,815
my mind when I was looking
at our show notes here,

153
00:06:45,815 --> 00:06:47,750
I was like, how
did you know that

154
00:06:47,750 --> 00:06:49,670
that was the quote
I highlighted too?

155
00:06:49,670 --> 00:06:52,730
I didn't. You know it was
the quote I highlighted too.

156
00:06:52,730 --> 00:06:57,470
A lot of researchers highlight,
because researchers,

157
00:06:57,470 --> 00:07:00,605
we only like quote
things that are really

158
00:07:00,605 --> 00:07:05,520
well said in a way that
you can't say another way.

159
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,110
I don't know whether I
directly quoted them in there,

160
00:07:09,110 --> 00:07:12,665
but I attributed that to them.

161
00:07:12,665 --> 00:07:15,380
But how I became

162
00:07:15,380 --> 00:07:17,660
interested in content
knowledge really has to

163
00:07:17,660 --> 00:07:24,520
do with more of my preschool
research background.

164
00:07:25,310 --> 00:07:28,875
In my work that I
was involved with

165
00:07:28,875 --> 00:07:31,460
Laura Justice during grad school

166
00:07:31,460 --> 00:07:33,140
and then after grad school.

167
00:07:33,140 --> 00:07:36,485
We're talking about
the mid to late 2000s.

168
00:07:36,485 --> 00:07:39,950
We were doing studies
where we would

169
00:07:39,950 --> 00:07:41,510
help teachers to be
conversationally

170
00:07:41,510 --> 00:07:44,300
responsive partners
with children.

171
00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:46,460
There was research showing that

172
00:07:46,460 --> 00:07:50,750
language learning environments
were not optimal for

173
00:07:50,750 --> 00:07:53,690
young children and particularly
young children living

174
00:07:53,690 --> 00:07:57,035
in poverty in school settings.

175
00:07:57,035 --> 00:08:01,415
We were thinking, well, how
can we help teachers learn,

176
00:08:01,415 --> 00:08:04,460
how to help children
develop their language?

177
00:08:04,460 --> 00:08:06,740
The kind of language I
was interested in was

178
00:08:06,740 --> 00:08:09,050
the language of books,

179
00:08:09,050 --> 00:08:10,370
the language of texts,
what some people

180
00:08:10,370 --> 00:08:12,780
call academic language.

181
00:08:13,700 --> 00:08:15,920
As we're growing
up, we are learning

182
00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:18,140
spoken language just
by our conversations

183
00:08:18,140 --> 00:08:21,760
with more able speaking partners

184
00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:23,644
and we learn language naturally.

185
00:08:23,644 --> 00:08:25,280
However, there are aspects of

186
00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,630
language that are
still language.

187
00:08:27,630 --> 00:08:29,105
I don't think it's
something totally

188
00:08:29,105 --> 00:08:31,310
academic which is something
totally different.

189
00:08:31,310 --> 00:08:33,155
But the way we speak,

190
00:08:33,155 --> 00:08:39,900
we use words that are
much more common,

191
00:08:39,900 --> 00:08:42,910
much less complicated,
much less complex.

192
00:08:42,910 --> 00:08:44,360
But in written language,

193
00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:45,860
even in a simple book that we

194
00:08:45,860 --> 00:08:47,450
might read to preschoolers,

195
00:08:47,450 --> 00:08:51,395
there's many more
instances of rare words,

196
00:08:51,395 --> 00:08:52,850
which are words that

197
00:08:52,850 --> 00:08:55,415
only appear a certain
number of times.

198
00:08:55,415 --> 00:08:58,130
Usually, something that

199
00:08:58,130 --> 00:09:00,810
a fourth grader or
above would know.

200
00:09:02,030 --> 00:09:05,480
When we read something, the
syntax is totally different

201
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:06,710
in written language than in how

202
00:09:06,710 --> 00:09:08,840
I would speak it right now.

203
00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,140
If young children
aren't being exposed to

204
00:09:12,140 --> 00:09:15,505
written language
through read alouds,

205
00:09:15,505 --> 00:09:19,305
where are they getting the
exposure to those rare words?

206
00:09:19,305 --> 00:09:22,310
Where are they getting exposure
to that complex syntax?

207
00:09:22,310 --> 00:09:27,300
Because the conversations by
themselves aren't doing it.

208
00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:29,570
Now, in training teachers

209
00:09:29,570 --> 00:09:31,295
to be conversationally
responsive partners,

210
00:09:31,295 --> 00:09:32,510
we were doing that work.

211
00:09:32,510 --> 00:09:34,340
What we found was

212
00:09:34,340 --> 00:09:36,560
similar to what other
researchers were finding,

213
00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:39,200
that we were able to
help teachers have

214
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,075
more conversations with children

215
00:09:41,075 --> 00:09:43,235
and children were talking more.

216
00:09:43,235 --> 00:09:45,560
They're more
back-and-forth and maybe

217
00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:47,995
teachers were even asking
more open-ended questions.

218
00:09:47,995 --> 00:09:51,620
However, teachers were

219
00:09:51,620 --> 00:09:56,570
not necessarily having
conversations that would

220
00:09:56,570 --> 00:10:05,735
expand children's thinking
or expand the discussion

221
00:10:05,735 --> 00:10:08,255
to build on children's ideas

222
00:10:08,255 --> 00:10:10,215
through these techniques of just

223
00:10:10,215 --> 00:10:15,870
teaching people how to
have better conversations.

224
00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:23,990
The content area interest

225
00:10:23,990 --> 00:10:26,555
was really inspired by
a couple of things.

226
00:10:26,555 --> 00:10:28,760
One of them was I was at

227
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,750
a conference where I was
presenting findings from

228
00:10:32,750 --> 00:10:34,640
these conversational
responsive studies

229
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:36,830
that were mixed in that
we were able to do

230
00:10:36,830 --> 00:10:41,860
things that showed some
impact on students language,

231
00:10:41,860 --> 00:10:42,950
but not the impact on

232
00:10:42,950 --> 00:10:44,720
the standardized
language measures

233
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:45,560
that you're hoping to see.

234
00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:47,630
The more general
language measures like

235
00:10:47,630 --> 00:10:51,315
standardized
vocabulary or syntax.

236
00:10:51,315 --> 00:10:53,480
There were other people
who are presenting at

237
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,715
the same research conference

238
00:10:55,715 --> 00:10:58,010
that were saying similar things.

239
00:10:58,010 --> 00:11:00,470
The great Catherine Snow of

240
00:11:00,470 --> 00:11:03,385
Harvard University
was our discussant.

241
00:11:03,385 --> 00:11:05,030
I don't know if she
remembers saying this.

242
00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:07,640
I don't even know if
she remembers me.

243
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,360
But she said something
that stuck with me and it

244
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,130
was maybe we need to give

245
00:11:13,130 --> 00:11:16,260
teachers and children
something to talk about.

246
00:11:16,710 --> 00:11:20,290
Coupled with that, a couple
of years later I did

247
00:11:20,290 --> 00:11:25,495
a study where I looked

248
00:11:25,495 --> 00:11:30,115
at preschool teachers and

249
00:11:30,115 --> 00:11:32,350
the language modeling
that they were

250
00:11:32,350 --> 00:11:34,750
doing in different contexts.

251
00:11:34,750 --> 00:11:37,270
During book reading, during

252
00:11:37,270 --> 00:11:39,310
science, during social studies,

253
00:11:39,310 --> 00:11:44,800
during all of these
different activity areas,

254
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,930
and found that when
teachers were teaching

255
00:11:49,930 --> 00:11:55,405
science and book reading
was in the mix too here,

256
00:11:55,405 --> 00:12:01,510
they were using
language strategies

257
00:12:01,510 --> 00:12:05,260
more naturally to do

258
00:12:05,260 --> 00:12:06,970
things like asking
open-ended questions,

259
00:12:06,970 --> 00:12:09,010
engaging children in
those rich conversations

260
00:12:09,010 --> 00:12:10,360
as back-and-forth conversations,

261
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,780
building their
conceptual understanding

262
00:12:13,780 --> 00:12:16,405
by building on what
they're saying.

263
00:12:16,405 --> 00:12:23,485
It was more than just
talk, I saw it as,

264
00:12:23,485 --> 00:12:25,300
there's something
special going on

265
00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:27,970
here that maybe we can build

266
00:12:27,970 --> 00:12:30,460
on where teachers are
already naturally

267
00:12:30,460 --> 00:12:31,930
doing some of the
things that we're

268
00:12:31,930 --> 00:12:34,615
hoping for them to do.

269
00:12:34,615 --> 00:12:38,485
Can I ask a question that
might be a silly question?

270
00:12:38,485 --> 00:12:40,225
There are no new questions.

271
00:12:40,225 --> 00:12:43,120
When they're not talking
about the content,

272
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,760
I have an idea in my head of

273
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,415
what the conversation
might be like,

274
00:12:48,415 --> 00:12:50,665
but I'm curious from
your perspective,

275
00:12:50,665 --> 00:12:52,405
can you describe it before?

276
00:12:52,405 --> 00:12:54,370
Because I think I have a
good idea of the after,

277
00:12:54,370 --> 00:12:57,505
of the content rich conversation

278
00:12:57,505 --> 00:13:00,160
or the content rich,
open-ended questions.

279
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,665
What did it look like before?

280
00:13:02,665 --> 00:13:04,420
What was that like?

281
00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:05,890
[LAUGHTER]

282
00:13:05,890 --> 00:13:08,035
Let me try to answer
in a couple of ways.

283
00:13:08,035 --> 00:13:10,540
Let's go to before,
before first.

284
00:13:10,540 --> 00:13:11,650
Before, before it would be,

285
00:13:11,650 --> 00:13:12,910
[LAUGHTER] let's
say teachers asking

286
00:13:12,910 --> 00:13:14,440
a lot of closed-ended questions.

287
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,480
I would say that this
happens all the time still.

288
00:13:17,940 --> 00:13:21,400
We had a scenario where in

289
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,170
our PD sessions where we

290
00:13:23,170 --> 00:13:25,525
had teachers playing
with Play-Doh.

291
00:13:25,525 --> 00:13:29,845
These were preschool
teachers. We said,

292
00:13:29,845 --> 00:13:31,870
let's imagine you're
playing with Play-Doh and

293
00:13:31,870 --> 00:13:34,090
here's the child and
they role played.

294
00:13:34,090 --> 00:13:37,990
The Number 1, go-to
question, [OVERLAPPING]

295
00:13:37,990 --> 00:13:39,400
What's your favorite
color of Play-Doh?

296
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:40,450
What color is it?

297
00:13:40,450 --> 00:13:42,370
Not even, what is
your favorite color.

298
00:13:42,370 --> 00:13:44,620
Both of which are close
ended questions because they

299
00:13:44,620 --> 00:13:47,125
require only a one-word
response to be adequate.

300
00:13:47,125 --> 00:13:50,020
But what color is it?

301
00:13:50,020 --> 00:13:54,085
We had already done all of
this discussion and training

302
00:13:54,085 --> 00:13:56,950
about how do you

303
00:13:56,950 --> 00:13:58,420
change those
close-ended questions

304
00:13:58,420 --> 00:13:59,635
to open-ended questions?

305
00:13:59,635 --> 00:14:01,750
Like, what are you making?

306
00:14:01,750 --> 00:14:03,190
What are you doing?

307
00:14:03,190 --> 00:14:05,500
[LAUGHTER] How does this feel?

308
00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:17,830
A lot of times to researchers,

309
00:14:17,830 --> 00:14:20,110
Henry Heineman and
Barbara Wassick from

310
00:14:20,110 --> 00:14:23,035
Temple University have
highlighted that,

311
00:14:23,035 --> 00:14:26,170
sometimes teachers will also
ask an open-ended question,

312
00:14:26,170 --> 00:14:27,220
but immediately follow it up

313
00:14:27,220 --> 00:14:28,630
with a closed-ended question.

314
00:14:28,630 --> 00:14:29,860
Like they'll ask a question,

315
00:14:29,860 --> 00:14:31,870
but not stop and wait,

316
00:14:31,870 --> 00:14:33,550
so is that helpful?

317
00:14:33,550 --> 00:14:35,650
They're immediately assuming
kids can't answer it,

318
00:14:35,650 --> 00:14:41,300
so need some scaffold
there before even waiting.

319
00:14:42,330 --> 00:14:46,270
That's helpful. That's Step 1.

320
00:14:46,270 --> 00:14:49,765
We're trying to shift
from just the close,

321
00:14:49,765 --> 00:14:51,505
to now a little bit more open.

322
00:14:51,505 --> 00:14:54,430
But it seems like there's
like three phases here.

323
00:14:54,430 --> 00:14:55,840
[LAUGHTER] That
was like the Phase

324
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,400
1, close-ended questions.

325
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,820
Phase 2, now we're going to
get to open-ended questions,

326
00:15:00,820 --> 00:15:02,830
but may not have some
things to talk about,

327
00:15:02,830 --> 00:15:07,585
and then Phase 3 is the
content-rich conversation.

328
00:15:07,585 --> 00:15:09,430
Lori, I think that's
a really smart way

329
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:10,540
of capturing it.

330
00:15:10,540 --> 00:15:12,460
[LAUGHTER] Maybe you
should write about it.

331
00:15:12,460 --> 00:15:14,350
Maybe we can get write about
it together. [LAUGHTER]

332
00:15:14,350 --> 00:15:15,730
No. [LAUGHTER] You're
so much better than me.

333
00:15:15,730 --> 00:15:17,110
[LAUGHTER] You do it.

334
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:18,640
[LAUGHTER]

335
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,400
I think what you're saying,
the open-ended questions,

336
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:22,900
what that does is it helps

337
00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:25,945
the conversation
move back and forth.

338
00:15:25,945 --> 00:15:28,450
It is actually setting
you up then for

339
00:15:28,450 --> 00:15:31,660
those language
enriching strategies.

340
00:15:31,660 --> 00:15:33,940
You have those
open-ended questions,

341
00:15:33,940 --> 00:15:35,725
but it's not just
stopping there.

342
00:15:35,725 --> 00:15:37,945
That allows the
conversation to occur,

343
00:15:37,945 --> 00:15:39,985
rather than I say something,

344
00:15:39,985 --> 00:15:41,410
you have a response
and I say, Good

345
00:15:41,410 --> 00:15:44,870
job,'' and I move on
to the next topic.

346
00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:51,070
There is this idea of asking

347
00:15:51,070 --> 00:15:53,155
open-ended questions and then

348
00:15:53,155 --> 00:15:54,790
extending what kids are saying.

349
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:55,930
Listening to what children are

350
00:15:55,930 --> 00:15:58,885
saying, extending their ideas.

351
00:15:58,885 --> 00:16:01,450
You could do this by
adding information or

352
00:16:01,450 --> 00:16:02,770
adding an idea to something they

353
00:16:02,770 --> 00:16:04,330
said to make it more complete.

354
00:16:04,330 --> 00:16:06,130
Or probing back to them,

355
00:16:06,130 --> 00:16:09,325
asking them a follow-up
question, building on it.

356
00:16:09,325 --> 00:16:12,220
Not just letting it be like I
ask an open-ended question,

357
00:16:12,220 --> 00:16:14,155
you respond, good job.

358
00:16:14,155 --> 00:16:15,880
Because that's a
conversation stopper.

359
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:17,530
You want to engage children.

360
00:16:17,530 --> 00:16:19,660
The content helps
engage the mind,

361
00:16:19,660 --> 00:16:22,960
give something to discuss
that's worthy of discussion,

362
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:24,220
that's worthy of curiosity,

363
00:16:24,220 --> 00:16:26,720
it's worthy of attention.

364
00:16:26,910 --> 00:16:32,810
I would say not all conversations
are exactly the same.

365
00:16:33,510 --> 00:16:35,650
From a research perspective,

366
00:16:35,650 --> 00:16:37,390
we do need more data on

367
00:16:37,390 --> 00:16:40,255
the conversations in
content-rich classrooms,

368
00:16:40,255 --> 00:16:42,610
which is something I'm
interested in digging

369
00:16:42,610 --> 00:16:45,280
deeper into in the
primary grades.

370
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:46,960
We can't wait to read that one.

371
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:48,670
[LAUGHTER]

372
00:16:48,670 --> 00:16:50,110
I'm currently writing
curriculum and

373
00:16:50,110 --> 00:16:51,820
I'm like furiously
taking notes here.

374
00:16:51,820 --> 00:16:55,060
Nice. [LAUGHTER]

375
00:16:55,060 --> 00:16:56,260
Check the questions
you ask. [LAUGHTER].

376
00:16:56,260 --> 00:16:59,530
Yes.

377
00:16:59,530 --> 00:17:00,835
Also the level of question.

378
00:17:00,835 --> 00:17:02,800
Somethings are literally right

379
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,690
there, literal than inferential.

380
00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:06,730
It's that inferential
thinking that we

381
00:17:06,730 --> 00:17:08,890
want to move students towards to

382
00:17:08,890 --> 00:17:11,500
really think and read between

383
00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:14,830
the lines and understand
more deeply and engage.

384
00:17:14,830 --> 00:17:17,815
What better way of engaging than

385
00:17:17,815 --> 00:17:19,030
integrating with
things that they care

386
00:17:19,030 --> 00:17:21,010
about or are interested in.

387
00:17:21,010 --> 00:17:25,870
Contact just provides a
very good basis for it.

388
00:17:25,870 --> 00:17:28,075
Unfortunately in
the early grades,

389
00:17:28,075 --> 00:17:32,420
it's been given a short
shrift in terms of time.

390
00:17:34,140 --> 00:17:36,685
Pete David Pearson likes to say

391
00:17:36,685 --> 00:17:40,930
that reading became the bully.

392
00:17:40,930 --> 00:17:43,300
I think there is a
lot of truth to that.

393
00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:44,890
That in the early 2000s,

394
00:17:44,890 --> 00:17:46,690
the focus became
on reading and the

395
00:17:46,690 --> 00:17:49,060
length of instructional
time given to reading was

396
00:17:49,060 --> 00:17:53,260
so much that there wasn't
interest in the early grades

397
00:17:53,260 --> 00:17:55,960
that there wasn't a lot

398
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,510
of time for content
area teaching.

399
00:17:58,510 --> 00:18:01,330
Those things have
been historically

400
00:18:01,330 --> 00:18:03,715
and in our system separated.

401
00:18:03,715 --> 00:18:07,555
We have ELA textbook adoption,

402
00:18:07,555 --> 00:18:10,930
and then we have other
textbook adoptions.

403
00:18:10,930 --> 00:18:12,670
Or teachers might say we

404
00:18:12,670 --> 00:18:16,120
only teach science every
other day or half the year,

405
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:17,410
and social studies
half the year.

406
00:18:17,410 --> 00:18:19,465
I've heard that in kindergarten,

407
00:18:19,465 --> 00:18:22,435
I've heard that some people
are also substituting

408
00:18:22,435 --> 00:18:23,770
their content area with

409
00:18:23,770 --> 00:18:26,170
the content rich English
language arts programs,

410
00:18:26,170 --> 00:18:27,790
which isn't what a
lot of those programs

411
00:18:27,790 --> 00:18:29,065
were designed for.

412
00:18:29,065 --> 00:18:31,150
There's a lot of great
things about those programs,

413
00:18:31,150 --> 00:18:32,680
but it isn't what they're
necessarily designed for.

414
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,590
But so we do have an
issue that's broader

415
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:38,950
than like teachers
should feel guilty.

416
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:42,490
It's much broader than the
teacher and school even,

417
00:18:42,490 --> 00:18:46,150
and it's a larger issue
that needs to be fixed.

418
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:48,160
Yeah. That's a
really good point.

419
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:49,600
All of those things do happen.

420
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,570
[LAUGHTER]

421
00:18:52,570 --> 00:18:56,005
I'm wondering like, where
this is happening well.

422
00:18:56,005 --> 00:18:59,110
What does this look like
when it's happening well?

423
00:18:59,110 --> 00:19:01,660
How can we help have

424
00:19:01,660 --> 00:19:05,020
an impact and support
teachers to have this

425
00:19:05,020 --> 00:19:08,230
happen well for them or
have them learn what

426
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:12,760
does content rich
conversation look like.

427
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,830
I'm even curious,
like down the road,

428
00:19:14,830 --> 00:19:17,710
not this moment, but how
this translates to writing?

429
00:19:17,710 --> 00:19:18,940
I don't know if you know
anything about that,

430
00:19:18,940 --> 00:19:21,040
but that's what I'm
thinking of. [LAUGHTER]

431
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,670
Writing is another
true love of mine.

432
00:19:24,670 --> 00:19:29,080
[LAUGHTER] That's an
interesting question

433
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,345
and I think that it
probably happens well,

434
00:19:31,345 --> 00:19:33,530
in a lot of places.

435
00:19:38,790 --> 00:19:40,930
Let me just talk a little bit

436
00:19:40,930 --> 00:19:43,610
about what it might look like.

437
00:19:45,090 --> 00:19:50,410
There's been a lot of
research on book reading.

438
00:19:50,410 --> 00:19:52,420
Reading aloud to children.

439
00:19:52,420 --> 00:19:55,570
There's a lot of benefits of
reading aloud to children.

440
00:19:55,570 --> 00:19:57,280
We talked about
some of them that

441
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,105
books contain more rare words,

442
00:20:01,105 --> 00:20:02,890
there are more complex texts.

443
00:20:02,890 --> 00:20:03,880
The things we read aloud to

444
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,230
children are usually a couple of

445
00:20:05,230 --> 00:20:08,635
grade levels from when they
can read there on their own.

446
00:20:08,635 --> 00:20:10,420
They're exposed to
different types

447
00:20:10,420 --> 00:20:12,505
of texts, different genres.

448
00:20:12,505 --> 00:20:14,020
Because even in
content rich learning,

449
00:20:14,020 --> 00:20:15,910
there's can be a
variety of genres,

450
00:20:15,910 --> 00:20:19,850
both fiction,
informational, narrative.

451
00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:26,245
But not just the book itself,

452
00:20:26,245 --> 00:20:29,980
there's a lot of research
around the extra textual talk,

453
00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:32,290
the talk that happens outside of

454
00:20:32,290 --> 00:20:34,840
the exact words that are read,

455
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,820
and that has been studied.

456
00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:41,410
The vocabulary
instruction that goes

457
00:20:41,410 --> 00:20:44,455
on during the
reading of the text,

458
00:20:44,455 --> 00:20:46,990
the conversations that
might go on during and

459
00:20:46,990 --> 00:20:50,230
after, what happens before.

460
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:58,000
There are these pieces of
these content-rich approaches.

461
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,620
Read Aloud is a big vehicle
that is being used in

462
00:21:02,620 --> 00:21:08,290
integrating content and
literacy in the early grades,

463
00:21:08,290 --> 00:21:12,340
because the approach
of content and

464
00:21:12,340 --> 00:21:15,085
literacy integration really
happens with content in

465
00:21:15,085 --> 00:21:18,354
oral language in the
early grades, especially.

466
00:21:18,354 --> 00:21:20,530
It's not necessarily
always happening with

467
00:21:20,530 --> 00:21:22,750
the texts that students are
able to read themselves.

468
00:21:22,750 --> 00:21:25,510
Although some programs
try to build knowledge

469
00:21:25,510 --> 00:21:26,890
through the texts that
students are reading

470
00:21:26,890 --> 00:21:28,360
themselves in the
early grades too,

471
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:30,100
but most I would say
in the early grades,

472
00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:34,130
K2 are doing it
through read alouds.

473
00:21:35,550 --> 00:21:39,730
The research base on read
alouds is pretty rich.

474
00:21:39,730 --> 00:21:44,020
That read aloud is a context
in which conversations can

475
00:21:44,020 --> 00:21:50,080
occur that can enrich
students language skills,

476
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,300
and it provides a vehicle

477
00:21:52,300 --> 00:21:54,745
for delivering some
of that content,

478
00:21:54,745 --> 00:21:56,740
but it's also important to note

479
00:21:56,740 --> 00:22:00,620
that the goal isn't like
getting through the book.

480
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:07,720
The authors aren't writing them,

481
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,090
so they're not thinking
about your read aloud when

482
00:22:10,090 --> 00:22:12,580
they write this
thing. I don't think.

483
00:22:12,580 --> 00:22:19,970
[LAUGHTER] It is perfectly
okay to read part of a text,

484
00:22:20,430 --> 00:22:23,470
and then read the
rest of it later,

485
00:22:23,470 --> 00:22:27,790
or to even clip
pages in the text

486
00:22:27,790 --> 00:22:31,600
that could be skipped

487
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,780
over in order to maintain
the whole story.

488
00:22:34,780 --> 00:22:39,235
I've done both of those
things in instruction.

489
00:22:39,235 --> 00:22:42,480
Curriculum makers now are

490
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,755
developing or working with books

491
00:22:45,755 --> 00:22:50,090
or texts that can be
done in a lesson or will

492
00:22:50,090 --> 00:22:54,335
purposefully span over multiple
lessons or be revisited.

493
00:22:54,335 --> 00:22:56,300
That's makes the job easier.

494
00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:58,190
Makes me feel so much better
about reading aloud to my

495
00:22:58,190 --> 00:23:00,995
three-year-old because I
do just that some time.

496
00:23:00,995 --> 00:23:02,990
Because even like
the Dr. Seuss books,

497
00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:04,940
they're pretty long
for a three-year-old

498
00:23:04,940 --> 00:23:08,120
and I just shorten
it up a little.

499
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:09,850
[LAUGHTER]

500
00:23:09,850 --> 00:23:12,640
[LAUGHTER] It's not that
every word in the book.

501
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,190
I think sometimes parents and

502
00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:17,755
teachers get worried about,

503
00:23:17,755 --> 00:23:19,540
I have to cover every
word in the book and

504
00:23:19,540 --> 00:23:22,540
so stopping kids from talking
and things like that.

505
00:23:22,540 --> 00:23:25,630
But research on book
reading has shown that

506
00:23:25,630 --> 00:23:29,410
those active conversations
with children, in fact,

507
00:23:29,410 --> 00:23:31,120
a big area of research
on this has been in

508
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:33,680
preschool and dialogic reading,

509
00:23:37,830 --> 00:23:40,540
and that's something
that was developed by

510
00:23:40,540 --> 00:23:45,115
Grover Russ Whitehurst and
my colleagues here FCRR,

511
00:23:45,115 --> 00:23:47,800
Crystalline again and Beth
Phillips is also been involved

512
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,760
in curricula that use
dialogic reading.

513
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,585
There's a lot of good evidence
for the goal of that.

514
00:23:55,585 --> 00:23:58,150
One of the goals is
to engage children in

515
00:23:58,150 --> 00:24:03,470
conversations and they
become the storyteller.

516
00:24:05,580 --> 00:24:09,624
I think sometimes
with in our thinking,

517
00:24:09,624 --> 00:24:11,950
at least in my
thinking as a teacher,

518
00:24:11,950 --> 00:24:14,950
I wouldn't prioritize
as much as I needed

519
00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:18,610
to the contribution
that students make

520
00:24:18,610 --> 00:24:23,110
to the read aloud experience

521
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:25,435
because what you
don't want happening

522
00:24:25,435 --> 00:24:26,560
is you don't want a child

523
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,335
to be spacing out
during the read aloud.

524
00:24:29,335 --> 00:24:31,480
I think my
seven-year-old is doing

525
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,655
that right now
[LAUGHTER] in school.

526
00:24:33,655 --> 00:24:36,805
I just met with the teacher
yesterday and I'm like,

527
00:24:36,805 --> 00:24:38,710
I know that he could answer

528
00:24:38,710 --> 00:24:41,770
these simple questions
about the story.

529
00:24:41,770 --> 00:24:44,420
He's just zoning out. Yeah.

530
00:24:46,590 --> 00:24:49,810
You want to make sure kids
are tracking with you.

531
00:24:49,810 --> 00:24:50,770
I'm not faulting the teacher,

532
00:24:50,770 --> 00:24:52,375
we have a wonderful teacher,

533
00:24:52,375 --> 00:24:56,155
but it's just a
personal reminder

534
00:24:56,155 --> 00:25:00,025
that it's the kids who
we're trying to teach here,

535
00:25:00,025 --> 00:25:02,305
not the material we're
trying to cover.

536
00:25:02,305 --> 00:25:05,770
Yeah, which I think in

537
00:25:05,770 --> 00:25:06,790
the moment sometimes gets

538
00:25:06,790 --> 00:25:09,670
lost It's easy to get
a lot of pressure.

539
00:25:09,670 --> 00:25:12,370
[OVERLAPPING] lesson plan and

540
00:25:12,370 --> 00:25:14,980
you want to make sure you
do it well [LAUGHTER]

541
00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:17,240
You have the goal of ending it.

542
00:25:18,030 --> 00:25:20,830
I do think that research also

543
00:25:20,830 --> 00:25:23,050
has focused on what
the teacher is

544
00:25:23,050 --> 00:25:25,420
doing and I think
that more research

545
00:25:25,420 --> 00:25:28,210
needs to focus on what the
children's contributions.

546
00:25:28,210 --> 00:25:30,850
But the difficulty about that,

547
00:25:30,850 --> 00:25:34,120
unfortunately, from a
research perspective, is,

548
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:36,100
I think one of the
reasons why the book read

549
00:25:36,100 --> 00:25:38,015
aloud literature
and research hasn't

550
00:25:38,015 --> 00:25:43,630
really focused on the
interactions or the student,

551
00:25:43,630 --> 00:25:45,010
what students are
bringing to the table is

552
00:25:45,010 --> 00:25:47,635
because when you
videotape book readings,

553
00:25:47,635 --> 00:25:49,690
unless you have special miked,

554
00:25:49,690 --> 00:25:52,540
and even when you have
really great miking,

555
00:25:52,540 --> 00:25:54,130
you can't really capture what

556
00:25:54,130 --> 00:25:55,975
all the children are
saying very clearly

557
00:25:55,975 --> 00:26:00,115
sometimes without being
really intrusive.

558
00:26:00,115 --> 00:26:02,530
It makes it really
difficult circumstances

559
00:26:02,530 --> 00:26:04,510
for a researcher [LAUGHTER]

560
00:26:04,510 --> 00:26:05,830
Turn and talk, and then there's

561
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:07,630
30 kids suddenly
talking [LAUGHTER]

562
00:26:07,630 --> 00:26:09,235
You're trying to see
what they are saying.

563
00:26:09,235 --> 00:26:13,060
Turn and Talk, I really
like that method

564
00:26:13,060 --> 00:26:19,930
to get all the students
engaged about the text.

565
00:26:19,930 --> 00:26:21,910
I like anything where kids

566
00:26:21,910 --> 00:26:27,020
are actively engaged
as much as possible.

567
00:26:27,540 --> 00:26:29,980
What the Turn and
Talk represents

568
00:26:29,980 --> 00:26:31,645
for me is that the students,

569
00:26:31,645 --> 00:26:34,750
it's not like a teacher
student interaction.

570
00:26:34,750 --> 00:26:38,080
It's like every
student is sharing

571
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,935
their thoughts with each
other in response and then,

572
00:26:41,935 --> 00:26:44,125
the teacher can take a
couple of suggestions

573
00:26:44,125 --> 00:26:45,910
versus the teacher choosing

574
00:26:45,910 --> 00:26:47,260
one child and then

575
00:26:47,260 --> 00:26:49,435
that one child has the
experience of learning,

576
00:26:49,435 --> 00:26:52,390
but the other 29 say,

577
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:54,265
they don't really have to think.

578
00:26:54,265 --> 00:26:58,015
They can just listen. I love
any experience that gets

579
00:26:58,015 --> 00:27:00,205
every student
involved as much as

580
00:27:00,205 --> 00:27:03,325
possible in that
learning experience.

581
00:27:03,325 --> 00:27:05,860
It doesn't have to be
necessarily whole group.

582
00:27:05,860 --> 00:27:08,170
It can be a small group
read aloud because with

583
00:27:08,170 --> 00:27:10,780
different structures that you're

584
00:27:10,780 --> 00:27:17,020
using to achieve those
rich interactions

585
00:27:17,020 --> 00:27:19,520
that you're looking for.

586
00:27:20,250 --> 00:27:25,209
The content rich
approaches seem to feature

587
00:27:25,209 --> 00:27:28,090
coherent text sets through

588
00:27:28,090 --> 00:27:30,220
read alouds in the
earlier grades.

589
00:27:30,220 --> 00:27:35,030
These coherent text sets where
knowledge is being built.

590
00:27:37,380 --> 00:27:42,490
A lot of the
research-based consists

591
00:27:42,490 --> 00:27:47,425
of not programs that are
available to be used publicly,

592
00:27:47,425 --> 00:27:49,525
but researcher
developed programs

593
00:27:49,525 --> 00:27:52,059
or interventions
that they developed,

594
00:27:52,059 --> 00:27:55,610
that some of them are
available publicly.

595
00:27:55,710 --> 00:27:58,180
Most of the extent studies

596
00:27:58,180 --> 00:27:59,980
in kindergarten through
fifth grade that are

597
00:27:59,980 --> 00:28:03,680
either experiments
or quasi-experiments

598
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:07,975
there feature a treatment group

599
00:28:07,975 --> 00:28:10,430
and some comparison group.

600
00:28:10,430 --> 00:28:13,710
In a true experiment,

601
00:28:13,710 --> 00:28:17,045
those groups are randomly
assigned to that condition.

602
00:28:17,045 --> 00:28:20,410
In a quasi-experiment, they're
not randomly assigned.

603
00:28:20,410 --> 00:28:21,160
That's just the difference

604
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,885
between experiments
and quasi-experiments.

605
00:28:22,885 --> 00:28:25,180
But when my colleague,
Hagen Hong,

606
00:28:25,180 --> 00:28:28,705
who's at the University
of Minnesota and I,

607
00:28:28,705 --> 00:28:31,375
along with our colleague
Rachel Choiniere,

608
00:28:31,375 --> 00:28:36,220
looked at all the studies

609
00:28:36,220 --> 00:28:39,310
that were available
in the K through

610
00:28:39,310 --> 00:28:46,690
five space that
integrated content

611
00:28:46,690 --> 00:28:49,720
and literacy to some degree

612
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,060
and had vocabulary and
comprehension outcomes.

613
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,200
There was 35 of them.

614
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,910
It's not a huge amount.

615
00:28:57,910 --> 00:29:03,230
In K2 there was just a
small handful of them.

616
00:29:03,270 --> 00:29:06,085
What we found was

617
00:29:06,085 --> 00:29:15,955
that integration versus silo
traditional approaches,

618
00:29:15,955 --> 00:29:17,950
what we found is that

619
00:29:17,950 --> 00:29:21,700
those integrated
approaches mattered

620
00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:24,625
for children's vocabulary
and comprehension,

621
00:29:24,625 --> 00:29:28,900
particularly on
measures developed

622
00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:31,750
by the researchers or the
more proximal measures,

623
00:29:31,750 --> 00:29:33,370
what I call more
proximal meaning,

624
00:29:33,370 --> 00:29:35,035
kids learn the words
that they're taught.

625
00:29:35,035 --> 00:29:37,525
They learn the knowledge
that they're taught,

626
00:29:37,525 --> 00:29:40,315
they're reading a passage

627
00:29:40,315 --> 00:29:42,775
that's closely related
to what was taught,

628
00:29:42,775 --> 00:29:44,995
but then it also had

629
00:29:44,995 --> 00:29:47,990
generalized effects
on comprehension.

630
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,775
This is still a growing
area of research,

631
00:29:51,775 --> 00:29:53,665
but one that merits,

632
00:29:53,665 --> 00:29:58,389
that whats some attention

633
00:29:58,389 --> 00:30:01,150
and I think is a pretty hot
topic in the US right now.

634
00:30:01,150 --> 00:30:03,025
This integrating content and

635
00:30:03,025 --> 00:30:05,260
literacy and the way that

636
00:30:05,260 --> 00:30:07,480
people are doing it in the
United States right now,

637
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,850
it seems like districts are
doing it through what I call

638
00:30:09,850 --> 00:30:12,685
content-rich English
Language Arts instruction,

639
00:30:12,685 --> 00:30:14,290
where the content is being

640
00:30:14,290 --> 00:30:16,390
pulled into English
Language Arts.

641
00:30:16,390 --> 00:30:18,790
I'm just going to ask you
to clarify that because I

642
00:30:18,790 --> 00:30:21,430
think as secondary teachers too,

643
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:23,020
we also would talk
about bringing

644
00:30:23,020 --> 00:30:24,985
literacy into the content area.

645
00:30:24,985 --> 00:30:29,360
Absolutely [OVERLAPPING] Yeah.

646
00:30:29,580 --> 00:30:32,770
When I talk about
integrated approaches

647
00:30:32,770 --> 00:30:34,840
and integrating
content and literacy,

648
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,390
I'm talking about
anytime of the day.

649
00:30:37,390 --> 00:30:39,880
Yes. A content
literacy approach,

650
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,040
like you mentioned, Melissa,

651
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:47,470
where you're bringing literacy

652
00:30:47,470 --> 00:30:49,435
into all the content areas.

653
00:30:49,435 --> 00:30:52,240
In secondary, that has been

654
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,060
an approach that has
long been a spouse,

655
00:30:55,060 --> 00:30:59,380
I would say more in the
older grades than in

656
00:30:59,380 --> 00:31:02,620
the very youngest
grades namely because

657
00:31:02,620 --> 00:31:04,210
the very youngest
grades often don't have

658
00:31:04,210 --> 00:31:08,630
a much content instruction.

659
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,335
I think that's true.

660
00:31:14,335 --> 00:31:16,180
We looked across both of those

661
00:31:16,180 --> 00:31:18,265
and there is really
great research

662
00:31:18,265 --> 00:31:24,325
on that integration
among the older grades.

663
00:31:24,325 --> 00:31:26,260
When I'm talking about content

664
00:31:26,260 --> 00:31:27,745
rich English language
arts instruction,

665
00:31:27,745 --> 00:31:31,180
I'm specifically
talking about when

666
00:31:31,180 --> 00:31:35,125
content becomes a driving force
in English language arts.

667
00:31:35,125 --> 00:31:36,340
That doesn't mean that

668
00:31:36,340 --> 00:31:39,220
these content rich English
language arts approaches

669
00:31:39,220 --> 00:31:41,740
are designed to meet all
the content standards.

670
00:31:41,740 --> 00:31:44,680
They're still designed to
meet the ELA standards,

671
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,605
but I would say

672
00:31:47,605 --> 00:31:49,000
most of the curricula
that I'm familiar

673
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,425
with it that are
being widely used,

674
00:31:50,425 --> 00:31:53,620
I don't know that they meet
all of the content standards.

675
00:31:53,620 --> 00:31:55,315
Yeah. Because I don't think
that's the intention.

676
00:31:55,315 --> 00:31:57,190
That's right. I agree with you.

677
00:31:57,190 --> 00:32:01,435
I think that the curricula
aren't designed to be

678
00:32:01,435 --> 00:32:04,870
used exclusively and then

679
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:07,190
you don't have to teach content.

680
00:32:08,190 --> 00:32:11,200
You'd still need across the day

681
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,570
something coherent that
is going on across

682
00:32:13,570 --> 00:32:17,880
the day where the content

683
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,800
is speaking to the ELA
instruction and vice versa.

684
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,190
But what I've found
in practice is

685
00:32:26,190 --> 00:32:29,290
that a lot of the times
schools will make

686
00:32:29,290 --> 00:32:31,780
the decision to replace

687
00:32:31,780 --> 00:32:33,250
content teaching with one of

688
00:32:33,250 --> 00:32:35,935
the content-rich English
language arts curricula.

689
00:32:35,935 --> 00:32:39,700
I think that that is
a mistake because

690
00:32:39,700 --> 00:32:40,990
the designers of those curricula

691
00:32:40,990 --> 00:32:43,465
themselves would
not say to do that.

692
00:32:43,465 --> 00:32:49,990
I know that for a fact for
core knowledge language arts,

693
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:51,310
I studied this program.

694
00:32:51,310 --> 00:32:53,095
I'm not a developer
of the program.

695
00:32:53,095 --> 00:32:55,180
This is a program that I did to

696
00:32:55,180 --> 00:32:59,229
randomized control trials
on in kindergarten

697
00:32:59,229 --> 00:33:03,580
and the developers would not

698
00:33:03,580 --> 00:33:08,875
say to not teach
the content area.

699
00:33:08,875 --> 00:33:12,550
It's not supposed
to be a standalone.

700
00:33:12,550 --> 00:33:15,370
But I think that there is
such little content teaching

701
00:33:15,370 --> 00:33:17,920
going on that it

702
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:23,990
gives some content weather
maybe was much less before.

703
00:33:25,380 --> 00:33:27,760
I want to dive deeper into that,

704
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,790
but first I'm wondering
if you could clarify or

705
00:33:30,790 --> 00:33:34,600
explain what could
this look like,

706
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,210
if I were a student, could
you walk me through the day?

707
00:33:37,210 --> 00:33:39,295
What could this look
like in a student's day?

708
00:33:39,295 --> 00:33:41,290
A day in the life of a student,

709
00:33:41,290 --> 00:33:44,185
just so we can all
ground ourselves in.

710
00:33:44,185 --> 00:33:47,410
I'm a first or second
grade student,

711
00:33:47,410 --> 00:33:49,270
and maybe kindergarten, you

712
00:33:49,270 --> 00:33:51,340
choose, maybe [LAUGHTER]
expert in the primary.

713
00:33:51,340 --> 00:33:53,110
I walk into school,

714
00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:55,480
a rough glance,

715
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,250
I have ELA, I have math,

716
00:33:57,250 --> 00:33:59,035
and then I have
lunch and recess.

717
00:33:59,035 --> 00:34:01,420
Then I'm going on to
the end of my day.

718
00:34:01,420 --> 00:34:03,310
This is just my
daughter's schedule.

719
00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:05,620
[LAUGHTER] Then
science or social

720
00:34:05,620 --> 00:34:09,010
studies or health or
one of those things.

721
00:34:09,010 --> 00:34:13,255
What would optimally
happen in each?

722
00:34:13,255 --> 00:34:15,010
If you could build
an optimal day,

723
00:34:15,010 --> 00:34:19,713
what would it look like
to be [inaudible]?

724
00:34:19,713 --> 00:34:19,930
Wow. [OVERLAPPING]

725
00:34:19,930 --> 00:34:21,040
Onto your next book.

726
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,390
[LAUGHTER]

727
00:34:22,390 --> 00:34:24,370
I would say that we have
some really great minds

728
00:34:24,370 --> 00:34:27,250
working on this in the
space already too.

729
00:34:27,250 --> 00:34:29,949
Nell Duke at the
University of Michigan

730
00:34:29,949 --> 00:34:32,410
has been developing
curriculum that cut

731
00:34:32,410 --> 00:34:34,465
across the entire day

732
00:34:34,465 --> 00:34:38,155
that is interdisciplinary
and integrative,

733
00:34:38,155 --> 00:34:41,200
and takes into account all
these different areas.

734
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:46,045
I sit on the advisory
board for that,

735
00:34:46,045 --> 00:34:50,320
and have been able to
see what a feat it is.

736
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,020
Because what you really need
to have is people who are

737
00:34:53,020 --> 00:34:56,845
experts in all of these areas
talking to one another.

738
00:34:56,845 --> 00:34:59,830
You can't just have
a reading person

739
00:34:59,830 --> 00:35:01,540
guiding the whole day.

740
00:35:01,540 --> 00:35:05,440
That's how I was thinking.
I taught fifth grade and

741
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,240
I remember being like I

742
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:08,800
don't actually know
what's happening.

743
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,780
I'm in that classroom
over there unless

744
00:35:10,780 --> 00:35:13,570
my co-teacher told me,

745
00:35:13,570 --> 00:35:15,040
but the kids were

746
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,275
traveling and experiencing
things throughout the day.

747
00:35:17,275 --> 00:35:20,690
I only knew the sliver of
what they were experiencing.

748
00:35:20,910 --> 00:35:28,030
It's tough because researchers

749
00:35:28,030 --> 00:35:29,320
or people doing the research

750
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:30,385
needed to talk to each other,

751
00:35:30,385 --> 00:35:31,840
people teaching need
to talk to each

752
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,240
other, the leaders,
administration.

753
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,250
There needs to be a
lot more collaboration

754
00:35:36,250 --> 00:35:38,935
going on in understanding.

755
00:35:38,935 --> 00:35:41,500
You're at the school level,
what you're talking about

756
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:43,690
is even teachers might not

757
00:35:43,690 --> 00:35:46,075
know what's going on

758
00:35:46,075 --> 00:35:48,250
in other parts of the
day for their students.

759
00:35:48,250 --> 00:35:50,935
I can't say that I know
the solution to that.

760
00:35:50,935 --> 00:35:56,120
But in a content-rich English
language arts instruction,

761
00:35:56,490 --> 00:36:00,970
what makes it distinct from
traditional instruction

762
00:36:00,970 --> 00:36:09,670
is instruction is designed

763
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:12,850
around topics and
not around themes.

764
00:36:12,850 --> 00:36:15,205
A theme might be
like our community

765
00:36:15,205 --> 00:36:19,855
or can animals teach us
or something like this.

766
00:36:19,855 --> 00:36:21,475
Then there might
be many things you

767
00:36:21,475 --> 00:36:23,410
do during the week around this.

768
00:36:23,410 --> 00:36:26,920
I would say traditional
core reading programs

769
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,540
are structured with themes.

770
00:36:29,670 --> 00:36:33,850
I'm not saying anything
that's bad necessarily,

771
00:36:33,850 --> 00:36:35,830
I'm just saying that's not
necessarily content-rich,

772
00:36:35,830 --> 00:36:38,140
it's not like the content
is the driver there where

773
00:36:38,140 --> 00:36:39,160
you have these content-rich

774
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:40,450
English language arts approaches

775
00:36:40,450 --> 00:36:46,495
that are now very popular
that drive with the content.

776
00:36:46,495 --> 00:36:49,240
They drive with a set of topics.

777
00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:53,690
You might learn about
farms and plants.

778
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,340
There's some common features in

779
00:37:00,340 --> 00:37:02,560
the research-based
approaches that

780
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,660
are there among others,

781
00:37:04,660 --> 00:37:07,135
the ones that have been
showing some effects.

782
00:37:07,135 --> 00:37:10,600
There's some common
features in those,

783
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:15,820
and one of them is that
content is a driver so topics.

784
00:37:15,820 --> 00:37:17,695
Well, all the

785
00:37:17,695 --> 00:37:20,935
English language arts
standards are covered,

786
00:37:20,935 --> 00:37:24,010
the topic becomes
really important.

787
00:37:24,010 --> 00:37:26,770
The cohesive coherent
text sets with

788
00:37:26,770 --> 00:37:30,835
often the interactive read
alouds and incorporated.

789
00:37:30,835 --> 00:37:38,380
Discussion and writing that
is connected to the topic.

790
00:37:38,380 --> 00:37:40,510
Not discussion and writing for

791
00:37:40,510 --> 00:37:42,880
the sake of discussion
and writing or for only,

792
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,940
"Oh, I have an inferential
question here," or,

793
00:37:45,940 --> 00:37:47,785
"This is an
open-ended question."

794
00:37:47,785 --> 00:37:51,160
But rather, how are we
building that knowledge,

795
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:52,060
and how is the writing

796
00:37:52,060 --> 00:37:53,560
related to building
that knowledge?

797
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,030
Then the last feature

798
00:37:55,030 --> 00:38:01,285
is the vocabulary
that's being taught.

799
00:38:01,285 --> 00:38:03,130
While general purpose words

800
00:38:03,130 --> 00:38:04,210
which a lot of
people think about

801
00:38:04,210 --> 00:38:07,690
his tier two words
are being taught,

802
00:38:07,690 --> 00:38:09,850
there's also the more

803
00:38:09,850 --> 00:38:11,380
content-specific
words that are being

804
00:38:11,380 --> 00:38:12,880
taught and they're being taught

805
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,265
in relationship
with one another.

806
00:38:15,265 --> 00:38:20,020
Through the texts that are
read deep in your vocabulary,

807
00:38:20,020 --> 00:38:23,230
you see that in
these approaches,

808
00:38:23,230 --> 00:38:26,980
and then you see that
also then play out in

809
00:38:26,980 --> 00:38:31,285
the widely used content
rich ELA curriculum,

810
00:38:31,285 --> 00:38:36,880
that makes it distinct from
the traditional curriculum.

811
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,355
Just to like put a pin on that.

812
00:38:39,355 --> 00:38:40,945
If I'm a student, I walk in,

813
00:38:40,945 --> 00:38:45,325
I experience that
high-quality experience

814
00:38:45,325 --> 00:38:47,890
in ELA that's content-rich,

815
00:38:47,890 --> 00:38:49,809
everything that you
just explained.

816
00:38:49,809 --> 00:38:51,520
Then I would go on with my day,

817
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,550
but I would still be

818
00:38:54,550 --> 00:38:57,745
receiving instruction in
science and social studies.

819
00:38:57,745 --> 00:39:00,760
I think that that's where
it gets confusing because

820
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,210
the topics sometimes in ELA

821
00:39:04,210 --> 00:39:07,135
or oftentimes in
the content-rich

822
00:39:07,135 --> 00:39:11,065
are science-related
or history related.

823
00:39:11,065 --> 00:39:16,615
It is difficult to parse
out for teachers to say,

824
00:39:16,615 --> 00:39:17,830
well, we didn't already

825
00:39:17,830 --> 00:39:21,085
teach science or we didn't
already teach social studies.

826
00:39:21,085 --> 00:39:23,950
We taught topics related
to those in ELA,

827
00:39:23,950 --> 00:39:25,795
but it's also still
important that students

828
00:39:25,795 --> 00:39:29,815
are experiencing the
science curriculum

829
00:39:29,815 --> 00:39:32,260
where they're doing experiments
and they're learning

830
00:39:32,260 --> 00:39:33,700
the scientific processes that

831
00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:36,310
they're not learning in ELA.

832
00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:38,050
I just want to make sure
that we stamp that,

833
00:39:38,050 --> 00:39:40,840
and that's an accurate way
for me to describe that.

834
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,315
If not, please correct me.

835
00:39:43,315 --> 00:39:45,400
What you were
describing, I think it's

836
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,010
a very valid concern.

837
00:39:48,010 --> 00:39:50,800
Then I would say that probably

838
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,620
my science education colleagues,

839
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,850
professors would
have this concern.

840
00:39:59,220 --> 00:40:02,930
Science is inquiry base.

841
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,385
In fact, one of my colleagues,

842
00:40:06,385 --> 00:40:08,275
she would never start
with a read aloud.

843
00:40:08,275 --> 00:40:10,210
She'll start with some
sort of hands-on activity

844
00:40:10,210 --> 00:40:12,250
then move into a read aloud.

845
00:40:12,250 --> 00:40:15,565
I think that reading
shouldn't take

846
00:40:15,565 --> 00:40:18,340
over science and social studies,

847
00:40:18,340 --> 00:40:23,545
but rather provide a supplement.

848
00:40:23,545 --> 00:40:26,260
It could be that certain
topics are first covered in

849
00:40:26,260 --> 00:40:27,580
science and social studies and

850
00:40:27,580 --> 00:40:29,350
then they appear in
English language arts,

851
00:40:29,350 --> 00:40:31,240
or maybe you're able to

852
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:33,505
sync your whole curriculum
at the same time.

853
00:40:33,505 --> 00:40:37,375
Where you're covering the
same topic as you're going,

854
00:40:37,375 --> 00:40:40,420
it's difficult and
this is why we need

855
00:40:40,420 --> 00:40:43,270
more solutions that think

856
00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:46,760
about the relationship
between those two.

857
00:40:48,090 --> 00:40:51,580
The core knowledge foundation

858
00:40:51,580 --> 00:40:56,380
has thought through sets
of both of those areas,

859
00:40:56,380 --> 00:40:59,170
and I don't know about the
other large publishers.

860
00:40:59,170 --> 00:41:00,640
But, they probably
also have science and

861
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,710
social studies pieces
that they sell

862
00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:05,440
separately that would
probably go along with

863
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:06,940
their English Language Arts but

864
00:41:06,940 --> 00:41:09,505
meet the science standards,

865
00:41:09,505 --> 00:41:11,410
and provide children with

866
00:41:11,410 --> 00:41:16,000
the hands-on experiences
that they need to really

867
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:22,480
engage in inquiry and the
disciplines of science,

868
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,010
social studies disciplines,
and it will not

869
00:41:24,010 --> 00:41:26,485
be all about book reading.

870
00:41:26,485 --> 00:41:28,885
I want to imagine
too this would be

871
00:41:28,885 --> 00:41:30,790
really helpful in
the primary grades

872
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:32,560
when you are teaching
the whole day or as

873
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,690
a teacher just
planning for the day.

874
00:41:34,690 --> 00:41:36,730
Because I'm thinking
as a secondary teacher

875
00:41:36,730 --> 00:41:39,400
if we are building knowledge for

876
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,250
the whole module on the
civil war but I know

877
00:41:42,250 --> 00:41:45,865
that they actually learned
about that last year,

878
00:41:45,865 --> 00:41:47,395
that's fine though, but they can

879
00:41:47,395 --> 00:41:49,150
bring all that knowledge
they've brought from

880
00:41:49,150 --> 00:41:51,850
social studies to my class

881
00:41:51,850 --> 00:41:54,625
when we're reading about the
civil war in my ELA class.

882
00:41:54,625 --> 00:41:56,230
Within this primary grades,

883
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:59,830
I would imagine when you're
planning for the whole day,

884
00:41:59,830 --> 00:42:02,440
[LAUGHTER] that might get
a lot trickier and it

885
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,135
might just feel better

886
00:42:04,135 --> 00:42:06,205
when you're talking
about now, Dukes.

887
00:42:06,205 --> 00:42:08,530
What does a full
integrated day look like?

888
00:42:08,530 --> 00:42:11,005
It might just be a
little bit different.

889
00:42:11,005 --> 00:42:13,420
I think that there's
no easy answers.

890
00:42:13,420 --> 00:42:14,620
But, Melissa, you're bringing up

891
00:42:14,620 --> 00:42:16,225
a really important point.

892
00:42:16,225 --> 00:42:21,180
That is that teachers need

893
00:42:21,180 --> 00:42:23,520
to be aware of
what children have

894
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,010
already learned in
what various grades,

895
00:42:26,010 --> 00:42:27,965
even if it's the
grades before them,

896
00:42:27,965 --> 00:42:30,910
not just early in the
year so they can then

897
00:42:30,910 --> 00:42:33,790
activate that background
knowledge as you're

898
00:42:33,790 --> 00:42:36,610
starting to learn new
knowledge so you can

899
00:42:36,610 --> 00:42:39,670
integrate your prior learning
with your new knowledge.

900
00:42:39,670 --> 00:42:46,090
For many years,

901
00:42:46,090 --> 00:42:47,440
we hopped on the importance

902
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,065
of activating
background knowledge.

903
00:42:50,065 --> 00:42:54,040
Now, the focus is on building
background knowledge,

904
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,530
because what if there is
no knowledge to activate?

905
00:42:56,530 --> 00:43:01,780
But as students are having
content-rich curricula,

906
00:43:01,780 --> 00:43:04,570
there's more of an opportunity

907
00:43:04,570 --> 00:43:06,520
for teachers to
make sure that they

908
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,920
know what is the sequence of

909
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,795
when it was taught so they
can activate that priority.

910
00:43:11,795 --> 00:43:14,050
You know what that
makes me think of is

911
00:43:14,050 --> 00:43:17,690
when I was a teacher,

912
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,020
whenever anybody
talks about this,

913
00:43:20,020 --> 00:43:21,880
this is vivid memory
stands out to me,

914
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,625
I remember having
students do a KWL.

915
00:43:24,625 --> 00:43:27,770
What you know, what you think
you know, what you learn.

916
00:43:28,770 --> 00:43:31,390
When I was walking around,

917
00:43:31,390 --> 00:43:33,085
I was looking at what they know.

918
00:43:33,085 --> 00:43:34,660
I remember thinking,

919
00:43:34,660 --> 00:43:36,880
"A lot of the things they

920
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,090
know or they think they
know are not accurate;

921
00:43:40,090 --> 00:43:44,210
[LAUGHTER] this are
misconceptions."

922
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,544
I almost wondered was it harming

923
00:43:50,544 --> 00:43:55,150
them or hurting
them to write down?

924
00:43:55,150 --> 00:43:58,630
As you write, you're stamping
something in your brain.

925
00:43:58,630 --> 00:44:00,550
To write what they
think they knew that

926
00:44:00,550 --> 00:44:02,470
was totally wrong? [OVERLAPPING]

927
00:44:02,470 --> 00:44:04,660
But, it was also helpful
for you as a teacher.

928
00:44:04,660 --> 00:44:07,105
It was very helpful. I remember

929
00:44:07,105 --> 00:44:08,740
vividly thinking
like, "Oh my gosh,

930
00:44:08,740 --> 00:44:12,415
they don't really know

931
00:44:12,415 --> 00:44:16,105
they have such inaccurate
knowledge right now.

932
00:44:16,105 --> 00:44:18,940
How am I going to get them

933
00:44:18,940 --> 00:44:20,590
accurate knowledge
so that they can

934
00:44:20,590 --> 00:44:23,050
access what they need to know?"

935
00:44:23,050 --> 00:44:25,810
[LAUGHTER]

936
00:44:25,810 --> 00:44:29,810
It's in the revisiting
of those inaccuracies.

937
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,540
I agree you don't want to just

938
00:44:34,540 --> 00:44:37,150
put a stamp on it and
say, "That's great.

939
00:44:37,150 --> 00:44:40,435
Sun does rise in the
West or whatever."

940
00:44:40,435 --> 00:44:43,360
You might have a time

941
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,060
when they can share what
they think that they know,

942
00:44:46,060 --> 00:44:49,315
and then you revisit some
of those things and say,

943
00:44:49,315 --> 00:44:54,070
does the sun rise in the West?

944
00:44:54,070 --> 00:44:55,300
Am I right? Sun rises

945
00:44:55,300 --> 00:44:56,350
in the East and sets
North? [LAUGHTER]

946
00:44:56,350 --> 00:44:57,430
Yeah.

947
00:44:57,430 --> 00:45:04,210
I got to background
check myself [LAUGHTER].

948
00:45:04,210 --> 00:45:06,700
You don't want to just
leave those hanging

949
00:45:06,700 --> 00:45:09,500
when you know that
there are inaccuracies.

950
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:12,340
Sometimes also teachers though,

951
00:45:12,340 --> 00:45:15,670
feel that they don't
have enough knowledge to

952
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:19,750
teach themselves accurately and

953
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:22,760
I think that's a
really valid concern.

954
00:45:22,890 --> 00:45:25,630
That's what some of
these curricula are

955
00:45:25,630 --> 00:45:27,880
trying to help offer teachers,

956
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,820
is enough knowledge or

957
00:45:30,820 --> 00:45:33,400
ways to also gain some of
that knowledge to be able

958
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:39,085
to teach the content
more accurately.

959
00:45:39,085 --> 00:45:40,765
Because it's not that

960
00:45:40,765 --> 00:45:42,460
traditional English
Language Arts

961
00:45:42,460 --> 00:45:44,245
instruction is
devoid of content.

962
00:45:44,245 --> 00:45:47,560
It's just that the content
skips around a lot.

963
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,910
It privileges children who have

964
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:53,905
the background knowledge
already and that can

965
00:45:53,905 --> 00:45:56,665
uptake the new things
that are being learned.

966
00:45:56,665 --> 00:45:58,540
Rather than sticking
on a topic and

967
00:45:58,540 --> 00:46:00,460
building that prior
knowledge in order

968
00:46:00,460 --> 00:46:04,795
to be able to uptake
the next topic as well.

969
00:46:04,795 --> 00:46:06,760
That's right. That's
a really good point

970
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,725
to bring up though about
the teachers though.

971
00:46:08,725 --> 00:46:10,810
It's good for us to just say it

972
00:46:10,810 --> 00:46:13,600
that some of these topics
are pretty in-depth and I

973
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,610
know one of the
topics I'm reading

974
00:46:15,610 --> 00:46:18,040
about right now is
the Nez Perce Tribe,

975
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:19,510
which I knew nothing about

976
00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:21,190
before I started writing
this curriculum.

977
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:22,420
But now I know a lot,

978
00:46:22,420 --> 00:46:25,510
[LAUGHTER] for teachers
picking it up and teaching it.

979
00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:27,460
We have to figure out how to
get them that knowledge so

980
00:46:27,460 --> 00:46:29,605
they feel as comfortable
teaching it as well.

981
00:46:29,605 --> 00:46:31,720
Exactly and so I
would say again,

982
00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:35,185
it is not the fault of teachers.

983
00:46:35,185 --> 00:46:37,090
I would feel the same
way right now about

984
00:46:37,090 --> 00:46:41,215
[OVERLAPPING] topics,
[LAUGHTER] first graders.

985
00:46:41,215 --> 00:46:46,795
I have a first grader
at home and I`m like,

986
00:46:46,795 --> 00:46:48,520
"Am I telling and we
need to look this up."

987
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,035
[LAUGHTER] He asks me
questions. I'm like,

988
00:46:50,035 --> 00:46:51,565
"I have no idea.".

989
00:46:51,565 --> 00:46:55,780
I know how the parents parent
before Google [LAUGHTER].

990
00:46:55,780 --> 00:46:57,640
Libraries, there is no library.

991
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,830
[LAUGHTER] [OVERLAPPING]

992
00:47:02,830 --> 00:47:04,180
I know. I sometimes
think that too.

993
00:47:04,180 --> 00:47:07,960
I'm like, "How did
we all grow up?"

994
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,759
[LAUGHTER] I'm a
little bit confused.

995
00:47:09,759 --> 00:47:12,100
Well, and it is funny to
you because they think

996
00:47:12,100 --> 00:47:16,300
you have all the answers
so they ask you questions.

997
00:47:16,300 --> 00:47:17,400
[LAUGHTER]

998
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,190
Not quite sure. Yesterday you

999
00:47:20,190 --> 00:47:21,900
said language and knowledge are

1000
00:47:21,900 --> 00:47:24,120
intertwined and take
time to grow and I

1001
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,910
think that just speaks to
what you just shared so much.

1002
00:47:26,910 --> 00:47:32,500
Yes. Unfortunately, everybody
really wants a quick fix.

1003
00:47:34,470 --> 00:47:36,790
People think like, oh,

1004
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:38,230
children are there
in fourth grade,

1005
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:39,520
they're not doing well.

1006
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,865
Their reading comprehension,
it's not going well.

1007
00:47:42,865 --> 00:47:46,120
But if that language and

1008
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,345
that knowledge wasn't
built up all along,

1009
00:47:49,345 --> 00:47:50,950
this is probably one of

1010
00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:53,305
the reasons why it's
not going well.

1011
00:47:53,305 --> 00:47:58,315
Unfortunately, it's very
hard to quick fix that.

1012
00:47:58,315 --> 00:48:03,160
Because unlike other skills,

1013
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,640
when we think about the
skills needed to decode

1014
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,660
words and for the
beginning reader,

1015
00:48:10,660 --> 00:48:12,865
some people call it
constraints skills.

1016
00:48:12,865 --> 00:48:16,255
There's a finite set
of alphabet letters.

1017
00:48:16,255 --> 00:48:17,470
There's a finite way they go

1018
00:48:17,470 --> 00:48:18,760
together and things like this,

1019
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,105
whereas the language is a
lot more unconstrained.

1020
00:48:22,105 --> 00:48:23,844
I'm not saying it's
more important,

1021
00:48:23,844 --> 00:48:27,490
but it is equally as important
to build language and

1022
00:48:27,490 --> 00:48:28,570
knowledge early on

1023
00:48:28,570 --> 00:48:31,525
that language comprehension
side of the rope,

1024
00:48:31,525 --> 00:48:33,790
Scarborough's Rope you
were talking about.

1025
00:48:33,790 --> 00:48:36,685
It's equally as
important to grow

1026
00:48:36,685 --> 00:48:40,510
that area early on
and you might not see

1027
00:48:40,510 --> 00:48:43,900
the immediate benefit in

1028
00:48:43,900 --> 00:48:46,630
their early reading
scores because you're not

1029
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:49,435
testing the language areas yet.

1030
00:48:49,435 --> 00:48:51,400
You're testing the
decoding areas.

1031
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:55,225
Then you'll really see the
benefit as children move up.

1032
00:48:55,225 --> 00:48:57,700
Then also there's benefit
of the language and

1033
00:48:57,700 --> 00:49:00,925
vocabulary to decoding as well.

1034
00:49:00,925 --> 00:49:02,770
If a child doesn't have

1035
00:49:02,770 --> 00:49:05,200
a certain word in
their lexicon already,

1036
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,460
how are they going to decode it?

1037
00:49:10,410 --> 00:49:13,120
It's so important
and then I always

1038
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,940
think about teachers who

1039
00:49:15,940 --> 00:49:20,410
have just did conversation

1040
00:49:20,410 --> 00:49:23,630
my friends who are teachers
are like what can you share?

1041
00:49:24,990 --> 00:49:30,280
Primary teachers, how
are students able to

1042
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,925
comprehend this rich text

1043
00:49:33,925 --> 00:49:37,160
when they can't
read the words yet.

1044
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,670
That is something that sticks

1045
00:49:39,670 --> 00:49:41,020
with me because I think it is

1046
00:49:41,020 --> 00:49:42,730
so fundamental to
primary teachers

1047
00:49:42,730 --> 00:49:44,545
to put one thing first.

1048
00:49:44,545 --> 00:49:47,470
It puts up the word recognition

1049
00:49:47,470 --> 00:49:50,965
first and the language
comprehension second.

1050
00:49:50,965 --> 00:49:56,125
What I would say is it's a
both and it's not either all.

1051
00:49:56,125 --> 00:49:58,600
It's actually a both hand.

1052
00:50:00,390 --> 00:50:03,220
Well, first of all, I'm so
glad that your work is in

1053
00:50:03,220 --> 00:50:05,290
the primary skills because

1054
00:50:05,290 --> 00:50:09,400
that really does help debunk
that thought and again,

1055
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,545
by no fault of anyone,

1056
00:50:11,545 --> 00:50:13,524
especially our beloved teachers.

1057
00:50:13,524 --> 00:50:15,025
It's just what we were

1058
00:50:15,025 --> 00:50:17,500
taught and it's been
ingrained to think.

1059
00:50:17,500 --> 00:50:19,720
I'm so glad that you're
doing the work in

1060
00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:22,210
that space because I think
once you hit third grade,

1061
00:50:22,210 --> 00:50:24,790
it does automatically debunk in

1062
00:50:24,790 --> 00:50:27,985
the way that we've been taught
over long periods of time.

1063
00:50:27,985 --> 00:50:29,470
That I love that word

1064
00:50:29,470 --> 00:50:31,735
debunking like learning to
read, reading to learn.

1065
00:50:31,735 --> 00:50:33,220
I tried to just say that.

1066
00:50:33,220 --> 00:50:34,750
[LAUGHTER]

1067
00:50:34,750 --> 00:50:41,470
Teachers still do say that
and that was from Gene Shaw,

1068
00:50:41,470 --> 00:50:46,360
who was amazing researcher
and from Harvard University.

1069
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,550
I've heard a colleague
describe that really

1070
00:50:48,550 --> 00:50:50,170
well as more of

1071
00:50:50,170 --> 00:50:56,530
a description development
and not a way to instruct.

1072
00:50:56,530 --> 00:51:02,665
She wasn't talking about
instruction and so you're always

1073
00:51:02,665 --> 00:51:10,090
reading to learn from
the very beginning.

1074
00:51:10,090 --> 00:51:15,220
I would say that the
language comprehension piece

1075
00:51:15,220 --> 00:51:17,830
of it starts at birth.

1076
00:51:17,830 --> 00:51:23,620
You're opening those
conversations early,

1077
00:51:23,620 --> 00:51:24,715
even before children are

1078
00:51:24,715 --> 00:51:26,050
able to do
back-and-forth with you.

1079
00:51:26,050 --> 00:51:28,450
They're still even little
babies arguing back and

1080
00:51:28,450 --> 00:51:31,240
forth with you and they're
doing protocol conversations.

1081
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:36,445
You are building the
language repertoire

1082
00:51:36,445 --> 00:51:38,200
right from the beginning.

1083
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:43,300
It's really hard to pass
language and knowledge

1084
00:51:43,300 --> 00:51:48,490
because they're just
so closely linked.

1085
00:51:48,490 --> 00:51:51,130
Our experiences the way we
think about them in language.

1086
00:51:51,130 --> 00:51:53,155
I think that they're distinct,

1087
00:51:53,155 --> 00:51:55,720
but I think that there's
just so intertwined.

1088
00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:58,570
We need to build them early and

1089
00:51:58,570 --> 00:52:01,720
reading aloud is a
ubiquitous practice

1090
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:03,265
in the early grades.

1091
00:52:03,265 --> 00:52:06,505
Thinking about the
real loud as a vehicle

1092
00:52:06,505 --> 00:52:11,185
for building language skills

1093
00:52:11,185 --> 00:52:13,360
in ways that matter
for children.

1094
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:17,140
Making sure that they're
part of the conversation.

1095
00:52:17,140 --> 00:52:19,870
I was thinking that
reading to learn,

1096
00:52:19,870 --> 00:52:22,900
it counts if someone's
reading it aloud to them.

1097
00:52:22,900 --> 00:52:24,355
[LAUGHTER] It counts.

1098
00:52:24,355 --> 00:52:26,320
As reading to learn. [LAUGHTER].

1099
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,610
Exactly, that's me
and my colleagues,

1100
00:52:30,610 --> 00:52:32,110
Genis or Betty and
Freddy Heber have

1101
00:52:32,110 --> 00:52:35,540
a nice paper and
reading teacher.

1102
00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:38,740
I forgot what year it
was, but I think it was

1103
00:52:38,740 --> 00:52:41,260
about this sixth
pillar of reading

1104
00:52:41,260 --> 00:52:42,925
instruction and they
talk about knowledge

1105
00:52:42,925 --> 00:52:46,430
and they make that point.

1106
00:52:47,820 --> 00:52:52,900
It is important to
know that reading

1107
00:52:52,900 --> 00:52:54,910
to learn happens
even when they're

1108
00:52:54,910 --> 00:52:57,265
able to decode the
words themselves.

1109
00:52:57,265 --> 00:53:00,640
Because when they
are able to decode

1110
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:06,190
words they need to

1111
00:53:06,190 --> 00:53:09,895
be able to understand
what they're reading.

1112
00:53:09,895 --> 00:53:11,230
They also need to have some of

1113
00:53:11,230 --> 00:53:13,195
those words in their
lexicon to even decode them

1114
00:53:13,195 --> 00:53:17,710
and they need to understand
different text structures.

1115
00:53:17,710 --> 00:53:19,780
They need to understand
all these things

1116
00:53:19,780 --> 00:53:21,550
that we`re just like,
"Why don't you get this?"

1117
00:53:21,550 --> 00:53:26,140
Well, if they were not
exposed to those things,

1118
00:53:26,140 --> 00:53:28,735
there'll be no reason
for them to get it.

1119
00:53:28,735 --> 00:53:32,500
Such a good point. Mike drop,

1120
00:53:32,500 --> 00:53:39,400
[LAUGHTER] is there anything

1121
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:40,870
else on here that
you want to share

1122
00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:43,540
about from your research or
anything before we ask you,

1123
00:53:43,540 --> 00:53:46,000
I know you're really excited
for our last five questions.

1124
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,380
[LAUGHTER]

1125
00:53:47,380 --> 00:53:48,880
The rapid-fire questions.

1126
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,550
[LAUGHTER]. I would like to say

1127
00:53:51,550 --> 00:53:58,720
that there is a lot of
really promising research

1128
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:01,140
in the early grades about

1129
00:54:01,140 --> 00:54:06,285
this integration between
content and literacy

1130
00:54:06,285 --> 00:54:09,180
and I think that
the place that I'm

1131
00:54:09,180 --> 00:54:12,435
pressing my research
forward on is

1132
00:54:12,435 --> 00:54:17,340
continuing to understand
the mechanisms

1133
00:54:17,340 --> 00:54:20,655
as to why that
might be the case.

1134
00:54:20,655 --> 00:54:22,980
I do think about the teacher,

1135
00:54:22,980 --> 00:54:25,200
how the context,

1136
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,190
what teachers are talking about

1137
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:29,035
teaching about effects there,

1138
00:54:29,035 --> 00:54:32,060
the ways they've modeled
language for children.

1139
00:54:33,090 --> 00:54:39,495
It's a really
important discussion

1140
00:54:39,495 --> 00:54:41,670
to think about and to
think about how we can

1141
00:54:41,670 --> 00:54:42,960
we integrate content and

1142
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,210
literacy instruction
in ways that improve

1143
00:54:45,210 --> 00:54:50,555
both content and literacy
knowledge for kids.

1144
00:54:50,555 --> 00:54:52,450
That just makes me so happy.

1145
00:54:52,450 --> 00:54:54,490
[LAUGHTER] The whole
topic makes me so happy.

1146
00:54:54,490 --> 00:54:55,750
[LAUGHTER]

1147
00:54:55,750 --> 00:54:57,220
We're just going to
block your calendar off

1148
00:54:57,220 --> 00:55:03,205
[OVERLAPPING] [LAUGHTER].

1149
00:55:03,205 --> 00:55:07,210
Are we ready for
final five questions?

1150
00:55:07,210 --> 00:55:09,265
Yes, go for it.

1151
00:55:09,265 --> 00:55:11,740
Five things that you love.

1152
00:55:11,740 --> 00:55:13,885
I'll start out with,

1153
00:55:13,885 --> 00:55:16,045
what do you love to read?

1154
00:55:16,045 --> 00:55:20,335
I'm really into young
adult literature

1155
00:55:20,335 --> 00:55:22,930
where there's often a
love triangle feature.

1156
00:55:22,930 --> 00:55:25,720
[LAUGHTER] The Twilight series

1157
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:27,745
or I'm reading one right
now called Matched.

1158
00:55:27,745 --> 00:55:29,740
Don't tell me how it ends.
I haven't finished it.

1159
00:55:29,740 --> 00:55:34,780
I don't know that one.
Do you have a tween?

1160
00:55:34,780 --> 00:55:37,475
No, I'm a tween at heart.

1161
00:55:37,475 --> 00:55:39,300
Because when you said
that I was like,

1162
00:55:39,300 --> 00:55:42,785
I am also can really
connect with this.

1163
00:55:42,785 --> 00:55:45,310
Well, I don't think know
from what you said earlier.

1164
00:55:45,310 --> 00:55:46,675
I have a seven-year-old,

1165
00:55:46,675 --> 00:55:49,090
but what really made me
excited about this was in

1166
00:55:49,090 --> 00:55:50,620
my master's program I took

1167
00:55:50,620 --> 00:55:53,230
a young adult literature
class and I started reading.

1168
00:55:53,230 --> 00:55:55,510
I'm like, I really like this.

1169
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:59,065
It is the young adult dystopian
fiction so divergent,

1170
00:55:59,065 --> 00:56:03,670
hunger games, all
those [LAUGHTER].

1171
00:56:03,670 --> 00:56:06,250
This one's a good one. What
do you love to binge-watch?

1172
00:56:06,250 --> 00:56:07,930
[LAUGHTER] Well, if

1173
00:56:07,930 --> 00:56:10,360
those are made into
movies and stuff,

1174
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:11,890
those are really fun to watch.

1175
00:56:11,890 --> 00:56:14,380
But I would say my

1176
00:56:14,380 --> 00:56:17,020
go-to series are The
Office. I love The Office.

1177
00:56:17,020 --> 00:56:18,100
My gosh, I can't tell

1178
00:56:18,100 --> 00:56:19,255
how many times I have
watched The Office.

1179
00:56:19,255 --> 00:56:21,550
I know, me too. Then there's

1180
00:56:21,550 --> 00:56:23,920
this new one that I've been

1181
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:25,360
binge-watching and it's been a

1182
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:26,785
strange binge-watch for me.

1183
00:56:26,785 --> 00:56:29,275
It's on YouTube. It's
the behavior panel guys.

1184
00:56:29,275 --> 00:56:33,235
There are four guys who
break down behavior

1185
00:56:33,235 --> 00:56:34,690
and tell you if people are

1186
00:56:34,690 --> 00:56:38,780
lying and the different
things that they're doing.

1187
00:56:42,390 --> 00:56:45,010
If they're having grief,
it should show up in

1188
00:56:45,010 --> 00:56:47,440
the forehead and then the chin.

1189
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,330
It's just fascinating.

1190
00:56:49,330 --> 00:56:50,590
What they do is
they watch a bunch

1191
00:56:50,590 --> 00:56:51,730
of baseline for somebody,

1192
00:56:51,730 --> 00:56:54,490
how they normally act and
then see how they're acting.

1193
00:56:54,490 --> 00:56:57,445
They do this with things
that are going on right now.

1194
00:56:57,445 --> 00:56:59,350
I think today's video
that's dropping

1195
00:56:59,350 --> 00:57:01,000
is about Amber Heard.

1196
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,190
[LAUGHTER].

1197
00:57:03,190 --> 00:57:04,105
That's good.

1198
00:57:04,105 --> 00:57:07,090
That's probably going to
be very controversial.

1199
00:57:07,090 --> 00:57:11,770
No comment. [LAUGHTER]

1200
00:57:11,770 --> 00:57:14,150
What do you love to listen to?

1201
00:57:14,430 --> 00:57:20,710
Right now I have Olivia
Rodrigo on repeat.

1202
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:22,720
I'm really liking
that sour album.

1203
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:24,130
You are a tween at heart.

1204
00:57:24,130 --> 00:57:26,290
[LAUGHTER].

1205
00:57:26,290 --> 00:57:28,375
I love some Taylor Swift too.

1206
00:57:28,375 --> 00:57:33,100
I am a tween at heart. I think
I'm 15 forever actually.

1207
00:57:33,100 --> 00:57:35,600
I'm going to send you
a tie-dye crop top

1208
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,170
that says Melissa and Lori love

1209
00:57:37,170 --> 00:57:38,610
literacy so you can
just wear that all day.

1210
00:57:38,610 --> 00:57:42,210
[LAUGHTER]

1211
00:57:42,210 --> 00:57:45,150
But I met my husband when
I was 15 and he was 17

1212
00:57:45,150 --> 00:57:46,620
and we just celebrated our 24th

1213
00:57:46,620 --> 00:57:48,885
anniversary like the other day.

1214
00:57:48,885 --> 00:57:51,000
I used to pray, please
let the first boy

1215
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:52,200
I kiss be the man I marry.

1216
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,370
He's the only boy I ever kissed.

1217
00:57:56,700 --> 00:58:00,130
I'm still stuck at 15 and we
always make a joke of that.

1218
00:58:00,130 --> 00:58:01,330
I'm still stuck there.

1219
00:58:01,330 --> 00:58:03,790
[LAUGHTER]

1220
00:58:03,790 --> 00:58:07,615
It's a good place to be
stuck. Past middle-school.

1221
00:58:07,615 --> 00:58:09,640
I had to make it
past middle school.

1222
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:12,655
Couldn't be staggered middle
school. Please, Lord no.

1223
00:58:12,655 --> 00:58:16,000
Oh my gosh. Not middle-school.

1224
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:17,050
You probably won't give

1225
00:58:17,050 --> 00:58:18,580
a middle-school answer
for this next one.

1226
00:58:18,580 --> 00:58:20,380
[LAUGHTER] What is a memory you

1227
00:58:20,380 --> 00:58:23,365
love as a teacher
or as a student?

1228
00:58:23,365 --> 00:58:27,610
I really loved when I was
teaching second grade

1229
00:58:27,610 --> 00:58:32,080
that you can really

1230
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,630
see students light up

1231
00:58:34,630 --> 00:58:37,360
when they were doing something
that they enjoyed so much.

1232
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,530
I remember in my class,

1233
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,840
one student was so
interested in writing plays.

1234
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,150
Later on he grew up to be in

1235
00:58:46,150 --> 00:58:49,975
the theater but he was so
interested in this and

1236
00:58:49,975 --> 00:58:54,760
I loved paying attention

1237
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:55,990
to their interests and helping

1238
00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:57,760
them develop some
of those interests.

1239
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:04,700
It was exciting to me to see
them doing what they loved.

1240
00:59:04,890 --> 00:59:08,080
I think those are
the things I tend

1241
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,140
to remember about my time.

1242
00:59:11,140 --> 00:59:14,380
The special thing about

1243
00:59:14,380 --> 00:59:15,730
being a teacher is you

1244
00:59:15,730 --> 00:59:18,010
develop those relationships
with the students.

1245
00:59:18,010 --> 00:59:24,790
I cried at the end of each
year and you just love them.

1246
00:59:24,790 --> 00:59:27,310
You want the best for

1247
00:59:27,310 --> 00:59:29,070
them and they love

1248
00:59:29,070 --> 00:59:31,515
you and you're a celebrity
everywhere you go.

1249
00:59:31,515 --> 00:59:33,150
I go to their soccer
game and they're

1250
00:59:33,150 --> 00:59:35,565
like, Mrs. Gable is here.

1251
00:59:35,565 --> 00:59:37,995
It is really fun to do that.

1252
00:59:37,995 --> 00:59:43,030
I also love it when you see
a student outside of school,

1253
00:59:43,030 --> 00:59:46,920
and years later and
they're like Miss

1254
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,340
[inaudible] They are so

1255
00:59:49,340 --> 00:59:52,165
excited to tell you
what they've done.

1256
00:59:52,165 --> 00:59:55,075
It's the sweetest.
It never gets old.

1257
00:59:55,075 --> 00:59:58,885
It's so sweet. You realize,

1258
00:59:58,885 --> 01:00:04,450
wow they're Facebook friends
and they're now adults.

1259
01:00:04,450 --> 01:00:07,150
It just makes you
realize how time passes.

1260
01:00:07,150 --> 01:00:09,310
I'm still 15 remember?

1261
01:00:09,310 --> 01:00:11,410
Time really passed.

1262
01:00:11,410 --> 01:00:15,040
[LAUGHTER]

1263
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:16,990
Funny. Our last question is,

1264
01:00:16,990 --> 01:00:19,975
why do you do what you
love for literacy?

1265
01:00:19,975 --> 01:00:22,490
That's a good question.

1266
01:00:22,590 --> 01:00:26,890
I think reading is one of
the most important skills

1267
01:00:26,890 --> 01:00:28,780
that we can have and
it opens the door

1268
01:00:28,780 --> 01:00:31,105
to everything in our lives.

1269
01:00:31,105 --> 01:00:34,090
It opens the door to
spiritual things.

1270
01:00:34,090 --> 01:00:37,450
It opens the door to
learning about new things.

1271
01:00:37,450 --> 01:00:40,285
It gives opportunities.

1272
01:00:40,285 --> 01:00:42,700
There's just so much about

1273
01:00:42,700 --> 01:00:47,840
reading that matters from life.

1274
01:00:48,270 --> 01:00:56,440
I just always loved the idea
of helping children learn to

1275
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:57,880
read and I think that was one of

1276
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,010
my driving factors when I was

1277
01:01:00,010 --> 01:01:04,255
teaching too before I
specialized in reading.

1278
01:01:04,255 --> 01:01:10,000
I always had the
belief that reading

1279
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:14,064
was under so many other things

1280
01:01:14,064 --> 01:01:16,030
and if you could
learn how to read,

1281
01:01:16,030 --> 01:01:18,170
you could do anything.

1282
01:01:18,510 --> 01:01:21,370
I still love reading.

1283
01:01:21,370 --> 01:01:23,620
I think it's one of
the best things.

1284
01:01:23,620 --> 01:01:24,910
When I think about
reading though,

1285
01:01:24,910 --> 01:01:27,250
I say reading, but I
also mean writing.

1286
01:01:27,250 --> 01:01:31,150
Reading and writing. Maybe some

1287
01:01:31,150 --> 01:01:32,860
other time we could talk
about writing in a podcast.

1288
01:01:32,860 --> 01:01:35,140
Yes. Write it down, Lori.

1289
01:01:35,140 --> 01:01:37,330
[LAUGHTER]

1290
01:01:37,330 --> 01:01:40,240
Well, it has been an honor to
talk with you and we're so

1291
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:43,630
grateful for everything you
do for students and teachers.

1292
01:01:43,630 --> 01:01:48,100
Your work is so
important every day.

1293
01:01:48,100 --> 01:01:50,125
Thank you for doing what you do.

1294
01:01:50,125 --> 01:01:53,290
Thank you for doing what
you're doing and elevating

1295
01:01:53,290 --> 01:01:58,390
different voices and
reaching so many teachers.

1296
01:01:58,390 --> 01:01:59,770
To all the teachers out there,

1297
01:01:59,770 --> 01:02:03,160
thank you all of you for
what you do every day.

1298
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:06,655
It is an extremely hard job

1299
01:02:06,655 --> 01:02:10,060
and there's not enough thanks
given to our teachers.

1300
01:02:10,060 --> 01:02:13,015
I think in the pandemic,

1301
01:02:13,015 --> 01:02:17,060
people began to realize
how much teachers do.

1302
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:22,315
I can't stress more how
much I admire teachers

1303
01:02:22,315 --> 01:02:26,905
and have so much
respect for teaching.

1304
01:02:26,905 --> 01:02:28,420
Could not agree more.

1305
01:02:28,420 --> 01:02:29,830
[LAUGHTER].

1306
01:02:29,830 --> 01:02:32,320
I know we need a
Melissa Lori love

1307
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:35,230
literacy shirts that say
just we just love teachers.

1308
01:02:35,230 --> 01:02:37,150
We are so grateful to you.

1309
01:02:37,150 --> 01:02:39,010
Thank you for taking
our children and

1310
01:02:39,010 --> 01:02:40,840
making them better people
everyday. [LAUGHTER].

1311
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:42,115
Absolutely.

1312
01:02:42,115 --> 01:02:45,040
Thank you so much Sonya
this is such a treat.

1313
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:45,475
Thank you.

1314
01:02:45,475 --> 01:02:47,500
I appreciate being here.
Thanks for having me.

1315
01:02:47,500 --> 01:02:57,190
[MUSIC]

1316
01:02:57,190 --> 01:02:59,470
Thanks for listening
literacy lovers.

1317
01:02:59,470 --> 01:03:02,020
We release a new podcast episode

1318
01:03:02,020 --> 01:03:03,400
every Friday and share

1319
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,400
more resources in a
newsletter on Tuesday.

1320
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,915
Sign up for our newsletter
at literacypodcasts.com.

1321
01:03:10,915 --> 01:03:13,990
Each week you'll receive
important information,

1322
01:03:13,990 --> 01:03:16,855
resources, and
connected content.

1323
01:03:16,855 --> 01:03:19,090
We're excited to
create a space for

1324
01:03:19,090 --> 01:03:21,700
community discussion
about our podcast.

1325
01:03:21,700 --> 01:03:23,545
We want to connect
with our listeners

1326
01:03:23,545 --> 01:03:25,735
and support you in
answering your questions.

1327
01:03:25,735 --> 01:03:28,180
But we also realize there
are a lot of other educators

1328
01:03:28,180 --> 01:03:30,865
out there who have great
advice and experience too.

1329
01:03:30,865 --> 01:03:33,010
Let's keep learning
together in our Melissa and

1330
01:03:33,010 --> 01:03:35,470
Lori Love Literacy
Podcast Facebook group,

1331
01:03:35,470 --> 01:03:38,170
and be sure to follow us
on Instagram and Twitter.

1332
01:03:38,170 --> 01:03:40,795
If the content in this
episode helped you,

1333
01:03:40,795 --> 01:03:43,345
share with a fellow educator
and teacher friend.

1334
01:03:43,345 --> 01:03:45,430
Our literacy lover
community welcomes

1335
01:03:45,430 --> 01:03:48,190
educators at every stage
of their learning journey.

1336
01:03:48,190 --> 01:03:50,995
We're so glad you're
here to learn with us.

1337
01:03:50,995 --> 01:03:53,440
The views and opinions
expressed by the hosts and

1338
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:55,705
guests at the Melissa and
Lori Love Literacy podcast

1339
01:03:55,705 --> 01:03:57,190
in this episode are
not necessarily

1340
01:03:57,190 --> 01:04:00,620
the opinions of great minds
PBC or it's employees.