{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1.2,"endTime":4.68,"body":"Well, finally"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1.2,"endTime":4.68,"body":"today I'm managing to record a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":4.68,"endTime":8.97,"body":"conversation with Dave Bausor. I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":4.68,"endTime":8.97,"body":"bet I've got that wrong already,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":8.97,"endTime":12.3,"body":"haven't I? Yeah, thank you very"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":8.97,"endTime":12.3,"body":"much. He's given me a thumbs up."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":12.3,"endTime":16.23,"body":"I've got it. And James bleach,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":12.3,"endTime":16.23,"body":"we tried to record this before"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":16.23,"endTime":18.36,"body":"Christmas, but we actually just"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":16.23,"endTime":18.36,"body":"went off on a whole other"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":18.36,"endTime":21.81,"body":"conversation about all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":18.36,"endTime":21.81,"body":"different things. So we're back"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":21.84,"endTime":26.04,"body":"again, today to record a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":21.84,"endTime":26.04,"body":"conversation, hopefully, well,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":26.07,"endTime":28.68,"body":"probably not involving me too"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":26.07,"endTime":28.68,"body":"much, but James and Dave, cuz I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":28.68,"endTime":31.47,"body":"think they can talk their way"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":28.68,"endTime":31.47,"body":"through this quite confidently"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":31.47,"endTime":35.34,"body":"it's their area, about the place"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":31.47,"endTime":35.34,"body":"of empathy in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":35.34,"endTime":39.33,"body":"technology. You may well have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":35.34,"endTime":39.33,"body":"been following these two on"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":39.36,"endTime":41.91,"body":"Facebook or on social media in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":39.36,"endTime":41.91,"body":"other places, but I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":41.91,"endTime":44.28,"body":"give them a moment to introduce"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":41.91,"endTime":44.28,"body":"themselves. So Dave, I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":44.28,"endTime":46.83,"body":"start with you. Can you give us"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":44.28,"endTime":46.83,"body":"a little bit of information"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":46.83,"endTime":48.6,"body":"about who you are, where you are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":46.83,"endTime":48.6,"body":"and what you do?"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":49.86,"endTime":53.01,"body":"Hi, there, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":49.86,"endTime":53.01,"body":"Dave Bausor. I'm currently a Ely"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":53.01,"endTime":56.91,"body":"College Academy, which is part"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":53.01,"endTime":56.91,"body":"of the SEMA trust. I'm the Lead"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":56.91,"endTime":60.69,"body":"practitioner for design and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":56.91,"endTime":60.69,"body":"technology. And I'm also the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":60.69,"endTime":64.23,"body":"trust director for d and t,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":60.69,"endTime":64.23,"body":"which is a new role that I sort"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":64.23,"endTime":68.49,"body":"of started this year. And I've"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":64.23,"endTime":68.49,"body":"been teaching, this is my 26th"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":68.52,"endTime":68.97,"body":"year."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":70.65,"endTime":73.11,"body":"And you've won"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":70.65,"endTime":73.11,"body":"really well. Thank you very"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":73.11,"endTime":76.53,"body":"much. Sorry, if you're all"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":73.11,"endTime":76.53,"body":"listening, you can't see we're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":76.53,"endTime":79.5,"body":"all we're all on video. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":76.53,"endTime":79.5,"body":"James, over to you."},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":80.58,"endTime":83.28,"body":"Yeah, Hi, I'm"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":80.58,"endTime":83.28,"body":"James bleach, and I'm Head of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":83.28,"endTime":88.53,"body":"Design and Technology at Tanglin"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":83.28,"endTime":88.53,"body":"Trust School in Singapore. And I"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":88.56,"endTime":91.05,"body":"am moving I've just kind of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":88.56,"endTime":91.05,"body":"announced that I'm moving in the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":91.05,"endTime":95.85,"body":"summer to startup design and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":91.05,"endTime":95.85,"body":"technology Sherburn, which is in"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":95.85,"endTime":100.38,"body":"Qatar. And I have been teaching"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":95.85,"endTime":100.38,"body":"for about 15 years now. But I've"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":100.44,"endTime":103.41,"body":"I've just always enjoyed the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":100.44,"endTime":103.41,"body":"kind of networking side and sort"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":103.41,"endTime":107.34,"body":"of taking every opportunity I"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":103.41,"endTime":107.34,"body":"can get to learn more, and then"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":107.34,"endTime":111.0,"body":"passing on that knowledge or"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":107.34,"endTime":111.0,"body":"experiences with other DMT"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":111.0,"endTime":111.66,"body":"teachers."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":113.43,"endTime":116.04,"body":"Great, well, it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":113.43,"endTime":116.04,"body":"actually really good to talk"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":116.04,"endTime":118.05,"body":"with you. I mean, we had that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":116.04,"endTime":118.05,"body":"conversation before Christmas, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":118.05,"endTime":122.04,"body":"know. But we've kind of touched"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":118.05,"endTime":122.04,"body":"base on social media, but never"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":122.07,"endTime":125.19,"body":"really sat and chatted. So it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":122.07,"endTime":125.19,"body":"been really great to, to have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":125.19,"endTime":127.77,"body":"the time with you to talk about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":125.19,"endTime":127.77,"body":"all things design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":127.77,"endTime":131.88,"body":"technology. Now, I'm interested"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":127.77,"endTime":131.88,"body":"in thinking about what the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":131.88,"endTime":136.77,"body":"curriculum could be like for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":131.88,"endTime":136.77,"body":"design and technology. You'll"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":136.77,"endTime":139.26,"body":"both know that I've got this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":136.77,"endTime":139.26,"body":"book out with Eddie Norman about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":139.26,"endTime":143.22,"body":"redesigning D\u0026T. I know that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":139.26,"endTime":143.22,"body":"Dave, you've put that on social"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":143.22,"endTime":145.14,"body":"media about saying it's a great"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":143.22,"endTime":145.14,"body":"book, thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":145.14,"endTime":148.38,"body":"You're not on commission. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":145.14,"endTime":148.38,"body":"that's been really nice to see."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":148.83,"endTime":151.8,"body":"And I'm not coming to this was"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":148.83,"endTime":151.8,"body":"saying that I've got a solution."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":151.8,"endTime":153.9,"body":"I'm kind of reaching out and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":151.8,"endTime":153.9,"body":"asking people what their"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":153.9,"endTime":156.96,"body":"thoughts are. So it's really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":153.9,"endTime":156.96,"body":"great to hear that you to have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":156.96,"endTime":160.26,"body":"these conversations about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":156.96,"endTime":160.26,"body":"empathy in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":160.26,"endTime":162.9,"body":"technology. So I'm going to hand"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":160.26,"endTime":162.9,"body":"over to you and let you between"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":162.9,"endTime":166.11,"body":"you kind of talk about what that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":162.9,"endTime":166.11,"body":"is and where it is and how you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":166.11,"endTime":167.97,"body":"do it in D\u0026T. Over to you."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":168.48,"endTime":172.65,"body":"Okay, I think,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":168.48,"endTime":172.65,"body":"really, for me, and I think it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":172.68,"endTime":177.03,"body":"always been there within the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":172.68,"endTime":177.03,"body":"subject. But I think it's what I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":177.03,"endTime":180.15,"body":"find with design and technology"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":177.03,"endTime":180.15,"body":"certain over the last 26 years"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":180.15,"endTime":183.51,"body":"and I've been involved in it is"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":180.15,"endTime":183.51,"body":"that new things come out, you"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":183.51,"endTime":187.11,"body":"see new things, you get involved"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":183.51,"endTime":187.11,"body":"in things, and then they sort of"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":187.74,"endTime":190.71,"body":"unfortunately, sort of drift"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":187.74,"endTime":190.71,"body":"away into the distance, and then"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":190.71,"endTime":193.59,"body":"you go through your career, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":190.71,"endTime":193.59,"body":"then all of a sudden, they come"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":193.59,"endTime":196.2,"body":"back again. So I think empathy"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":193.59,"endTime":196.2,"body":"is always been in the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":196.2,"endTime":201.36,"body":"curriculum. And I think now more"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":196.2,"endTime":201.36,"body":"than ever, certainly, after, or"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":201.45,"endTime":204.6,"body":"as some of us are still in the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":201.45,"endTime":204.6,"body":"pandemic and in lockdown and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":204.6,"endTime":208.62,"body":"things like that, as we've seen"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":204.6,"endTime":208.62,"body":"in terms of a subject. I think"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":208.62,"endTime":214.47,"body":"it's it's so so important that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":208.62,"endTime":214.47,"body":"we share that and celebrate that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":214.74,"endTime":219.69,"body":"and get our students who I think"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":214.74,"endTime":219.69,"body":"a lot of students sort of go"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":219.69,"endTime":222.39,"body":"under the radar, they you know,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":219.69,"endTime":222.39,"body":"they've got this ability,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":222.39,"endTime":224.79,"body":"they've got this, these"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":222.39,"endTime":224.79,"body":"fantastic ideas can be very"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":224.79,"endTime":228.21,"body":"creative and innovative. But I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":224.79,"endTime":228.21,"body":"think sometimes, the way"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":228.21,"endTime":230.97,"body":"curriculums are set up, perhaps"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":228.21,"endTime":230.97,"body":"no, that's probably another"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":230.97,"endTime":234.96,"body":"conversation can be quite"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":230.97,"endTime":234.96,"body":"constraining. But in terms of my"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":234.96,"endTime":238.11,"body":"own experience, there's been"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":234.96,"endTime":238.11,"body":"lots of little highlights. I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":238.11,"endTime":241.8,"body":"won't go through them all now."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":238.11,"endTime":241.8,"body":"But even in my first and Qt year"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":241.8,"endTime":246.33,"body":"when I'm deploying A Day in the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":241.8,"endTime":246.33,"body":"Life cards, and trying to step"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":246.33,"endTime":249.54,"body":"into somebody else's shoes and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":246.33,"endTime":249.54,"body":"getting students to think about"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":249.54,"endTime":254.19,"body":"what it's like to be somebody"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":249.54,"endTime":254.19,"body":"else other than themselves. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":254.19,"endTime":257.55,"body":"even that, you know, I deployed"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":254.19,"endTime":257.55,"body":"that it worked really well. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":257.55,"endTime":260.64,"body":"then I did something else and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":257.55,"endTime":260.64,"body":"almost forgot that I done that."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":261.06,"endTime":263.79,"body":"And then when having having"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":261.06,"endTime":263.79,"body":"conversations and revisiting"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":263.79,"endTime":267.33,"body":"things and things like when the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":263.79,"endTime":267.33,"body":"new specification came out, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":267.33,"endTime":270.45,"body":"a lot of dt colleagues were like"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":267.33,"endTime":270.45,"body":"worse, this is really scary. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":270.45,"endTime":273.72,"body":"it was like, hang on a minute."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":270.45,"endTime":273.72,"body":"This is a real opportunity here."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":273.99,"endTime":276.48,"body":"And it just gets you to go, oh,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":273.99,"endTime":276.48,"body":"yeah, we've done this in the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":276.48,"endTime":278.91,"body":"past. And we did that and it"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":276.48,"endTime":278.91,"body":"worked really well. Why don't we"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":278.91,"endTime":283.35,"body":"revisit? And there's been lots"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":278.91,"endTime":283.35,"body":"of other things for me, meeting,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":283.65,"endTime":286.44,"body":"a colleague called John Willis,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":283.65,"endTime":286.44,"body":"which I'm sure we'll touch on a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":286.44,"endTime":290.1,"body":"little bit later. But all sorts"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":286.44,"endTime":290.1,"body":"of things. And I do think that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":290.1,"endTime":293.61,"body":"empathy is always been there and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":290.1,"endTime":293.61,"body":"it's a case of teasing it out"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":293.64,"endTime":294.63,"body":"and building on it."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":296.19,"endTime":297.78,"body":"I'm going to put"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":296.19,"endTime":297.78,"body":"in that I think because it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":297.78,"endTime":300.75,"body":"also about giving it its name"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":297.78,"endTime":300.75,"body":"using the word had empathy,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":301.02,"endTime":305.49,"body":"isn't it rather than talking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":301.02,"endTime":305.49,"body":"about just about users and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":305.49,"endTime":309.09,"body":"understanding people and things"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":305.49,"endTime":309.09,"body":"like a day in the life, those"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":309.09,"endTime":312.24,"body":"cards, I mean, there's the stuff"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":309.09,"endTime":312.24,"body":"that's my do and the stuff from"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":312.24,"endTime":315.24,"body":"Bill nickel that supports those"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":312.24,"endTime":315.24,"body":"ideas. And I'll put links in the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":315.24,"endTime":320.01,"body":"show notes to, to some of those"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":315.24,"endTime":320.01,"body":"things. As you say, it's always"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":320.01,"endTime":322.14,"body":"been there. But we haven't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":320.01,"endTime":322.14,"body":"necessarily always used that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":322.14,"endTime":327.15,"body":"word, empathy to kind of to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":322.14,"endTime":327.15,"body":"label it. It's funny how it lots"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":327.15,"endTime":329.67,"body":"of things come back. But as you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":327.15,"endTime":329.67,"body":"said, another conversation, but"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":329.67,"endTime":331.62,"body":"God, James, you were going to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":329.67,"endTime":331.62,"body":"say something about this?"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":332.46,"endTime":335.19,"body":"And yes, just when"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":332.46,"endTime":335.19,"body":"you put it in the context of,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":335.31,"endTime":338.07,"body":"you know, where does it fit into"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":335.31,"endTime":338.07,"body":"a curriculum, I think that the,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":338.76,"endTime":342.9,"body":"one of the problems that I've"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":338.76,"endTime":342.9,"body":"found is that there is so much"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":342.93,"endTime":347.25,"body":"potential content for a design"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":342.93,"endTime":347.25,"body":"and technology curriculum. And"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":347.34,"endTime":351.54,"body":"every school is set up slightly"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":347.34,"endTime":351.54,"body":"differently, you know, teachers"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":351.54,"endTime":356.4,"body":"have different skill sets, kids"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":351.54,"endTime":356.4,"body":"with different needs, different"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":356.4,"endTime":358.89,"body":"equipment, in the rooms that"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":356.4,"endTime":358.89,"body":"you've got, you might have one"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":358.89,"endTime":362.64,"body":"member of staff we talked about,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":358.89,"endTime":362.64,"body":"as a full department compared to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":362.64,"endTime":366.63,"body":"maybe I've no 10 In a large"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":362.64,"endTime":366.63,"body":"department. So, you know, there"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":366.63,"endTime":369.99,"body":"are so many things that you have"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":366.63,"endTime":369.99,"body":"to factor in. I think that I've"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":369.99,"endTime":373.32,"body":"just been quite lucky more"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":369.99,"endTime":373.32,"body":"recently, that I've been able to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":373.32,"endTime":376.74,"body":"rewrite our curriculum. And"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":373.32,"endTime":376.74,"body":"we've been given the opportunity"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":376.74,"endTime":380.91,"body":"to use the British curriculum as"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":376.74,"endTime":380.91,"body":"a guideline. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":380.91,"endTime":385.95,"body":"where it becomes important is"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":380.91,"endTime":385.95,"body":"that most printed advice and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":385.95,"endTime":389.34,"body":"documentation are guidelines,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":385.95,"endTime":389.34,"body":"you know, they're open for"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":389.34,"endTime":393.69,"body":"interpretation. And I think"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":389.34,"endTime":393.69,"body":"that, you know, we live in fear"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":393.69,"endTime":397.89,"body":"of not covering enough content"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":393.69,"endTime":397.89,"body":"for, or by the time that the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":397.89,"endTime":401.94,"body":"pupils get to year 11, or by the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":397.89,"endTime":401.94,"body":"time they get to year 13. And I"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":401.94,"endTime":404.4,"body":"think that we almost need to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":401.94,"endTime":404.4,"body":"take the pressure off ourselves"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":404.4,"endTime":407.37,"body":"a little bit with that one."},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":404.4,"endTime":407.37,"body":"Because it's, you know, do you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":407.4,"endTime":412.38,"body":"do cover everything to a small"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":407.4,"endTime":412.38,"body":"level? Or do you? Do you look at"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":412.38,"endTime":415.59,"body":"certain areas and get the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":412.38,"endTime":415.59,"body":"learning a little bit deeper."},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":416.7,"endTime":419.46,"body":"And it's, you know, don't get me"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":416.7,"endTime":419.46,"body":"wrong, it's not an easy thing to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":419.46,"endTime":422.58,"body":"decide. But that's what you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":419.46,"endTime":422.58,"body":"should be doing, as a department"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":422.58,"endTime":424.95,"body":"is thinking about, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":422.58,"endTime":424.95,"body":"where these opportunities are to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":424.95,"endTime":428.79,"body":"explore a little bit further."},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":424.95,"endTime":428.79,"body":"And there have been many"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":428.79,"endTime":431.85,"body":"conversations over the years"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":428.79,"endTime":431.85,"body":"about, you know, our pupils"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":431.85,"endTime":435.48,"body":"really designing, you know, and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":431.85,"endTime":435.48,"body":"how much should we be"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":435.48,"endTime":438.84,"body":"determining what they are"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":435.48,"endTime":438.84,"body":"making, obviously, there,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":438.93,"endTime":441.87,"body":"there's room for skills to be"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":438.93,"endTime":441.87,"body":"taught and repetitive"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":442.5,"endTime":446.07,"body":"repetitions of skill across the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":442.5,"endTime":446.07,"body":"group, but you have to factor in"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":446.07,"endTime":449.49,"body":"opportunities where you let go a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":446.07,"endTime":449.49,"body":"little bit, and it might just be"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":449.49,"endTime":453.18,"body":"that you, you know, you give a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":449.49,"endTime":453.18,"body":"time restriction, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":453.18,"endTime":456.06,"body":"you just give a certain amount"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":453.18,"endTime":456.06,"body":"of materials or processes, but"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":456.06,"endTime":458.49,"body":"you have to give them a little"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":456.06,"endTime":458.49,"body":"bit of freedom to, to make"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":458.49,"endTime":461.1,"body":"mistakes, and, you know, yes,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":458.49,"endTime":461.1,"body":"you'll get some projects that"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":461.1,"endTime":463.65,"body":"are handed in when a prototype"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":461.1,"endTime":463.65,"body":"is looking a little bit rough"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":463.65,"endTime":467.1,"body":"around the edges. But it's but"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":463.65,"endTime":467.1,"body":"that's the way the sort of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":467.1,"endTime":471.0,"body":"context driven GCSE is nowadays,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":467.1,"endTime":471.0,"body":"you know, it's more about the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":471.0,"endTime":474.0,"body":"ideas that the pupils come up"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":471.0,"endTime":474.0,"body":"with, and how well they can"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":474.0,"endTime":478.44,"body":"prototype, you know, we don't"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":474.0,"endTime":478.44,"body":"need to teach them to be the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":478.71,"endTime":482.58,"body":"sort of highly skilled joiner,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":478.71,"endTime":482.58,"body":"you know, it doesn't need to be"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":482.58,"endTime":485.07,"body":"like that, for design and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":482.58,"endTime":485.07,"body":"technology, you know, that we"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":485.07,"endTime":488.13,"body":"need to focus more on, on"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":485.07,"endTime":488.13,"body":"designing and understanding"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":488.88,"endTime":492.12,"body":"what, what our role is as a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":488.88,"endTime":492.12,"body":"problem solver. And the only way"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":492.12,"endTime":495.33,"body":"we're ever going to do that is"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":492.12,"endTime":495.33,"body":"if we're open to learning from"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":495.33,"endTime":497.34,"body":"each other. And I think, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":495.33,"endTime":497.34,"body":"know, everybody has something"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":497.34,"endTime":500.55,"body":"that they can teach you, whether"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":497.34,"endTime":500.55,"body":"it's your next door neighbour"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":500.55,"endTime":503.82,"body":"or, or somebody with a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":500.55,"endTime":503.82,"body":"particular need or impairment."},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":504.15,"endTime":508.23,"body":"And there are lots of projects"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":504.15,"endTime":508.23,"body":"out there now, where they are"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":508.23,"endTime":511.14,"body":"the focus, you know, trying to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":508.23,"endTime":511.14,"body":"get us to open our minds to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":511.14,"endTime":515.49,"body":"understand the needs of others a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":511.14,"endTime":515.49,"body":"bit more. And how you do that,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":515.61,"endTime":517.98,"body":"there are some great resources"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":515.61,"endTime":517.98,"body":"out there, obviously, Dave"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":517.98,"endTime":522.69,"body":"mentioned, how he achieved that,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":517.98,"endTime":522.69,"body":"I tend to try and speak to as"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":522.69,"endTime":527.67,"body":"many people as I can, my sister"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":522.69,"endTime":527.67,"body":"in law's father has Parkinson's."},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":527.67,"endTime":530.85,"body":"So, you know, I, she was quite"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":527.67,"endTime":530.85,"body":"happy to share loads of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":530.85,"endTime":533.85,"body":"resources and links and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":530.85,"endTime":533.85,"body":"information with me about what"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":533.85,"endTime":537.78,"body":"it's like to live with"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":533.85,"endTime":537.78,"body":"Parkinson's, and, and it just"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":537.78,"endTime":541.38,"body":"completely sort of blew my mind"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":537.78,"endTime":541.38,"body":"as to all the different effects"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":541.44,"endTime":544.77,"body":"that can have on your daily"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":541.44,"endTime":544.77,"body":"life. Whereas, you know, maybe"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":544.77,"endTime":549.12,"body":"before learning from her, I just"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":544.77,"endTime":549.12,"body":"thought that maybe yes, you get"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":549.3,"endTime":552.33,"body":"these kind of mixed brain"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":549.3,"endTime":552.33,"body":"signals, and you get like a sort"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":552.33,"endTime":554.31,"body":"of tremors in a way and that"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":552.33,"endTime":554.31,"body":"that would have been the level"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":554.31,"endTime":557.79,"body":"of my understanding. So I think"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":554.31,"endTime":557.79,"body":"we, as teachers have to, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":557.85,"endTime":561.69,"body":"know, people throw around a term"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":557.85,"endTime":561.69,"body":"lifelong learners, but we have"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":561.69,"endTime":564.96,"body":"to just genuinely be interested"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":561.69,"endTime":564.96,"body":"to hear from other people and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":564.96,"endTime":568.17,"body":"hear their stories. Because it"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":564.96,"endTime":568.17,"body":"is exciting, really, because as"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":568.17,"endTime":571.11,"body":"soon as you learn from one"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":568.17,"endTime":571.11,"body":"person about their daily"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":571.11,"endTime":574.32,"body":"routine, and the problems they"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":571.11,"endTime":574.32,"body":"have, like they show in the big"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":574.32,"endTime":577.62,"body":"life fix, you sit there and you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":574.32,"endTime":577.62,"body":"just see all these opportunities"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":577.62,"endTime":581.73,"body":"popping up and you get kids that"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":577.62,"endTime":581.73,"body":"have the same experience, and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":581.94,"endTime":585.15,"body":"it's a lot more powerful"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":581.94,"endTime":585.15,"body":"learning experience."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":585.87,"endTime":588.63,"body":"Now, I think also"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":585.87,"endTime":588.63,"body":"just carrying on from that, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":588.63,"endTime":592.83,"body":"think it was Jude pulling that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":588.63,"endTime":592.83,"body":"said, wasn't it he said, fall in"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":592.83,"endTime":596.1,"body":"love with the problem and not"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":592.83,"endTime":596.1,"body":"the outcome. And that sort of"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":596.16,"endTime":598.92,"body":"quite recently and that really"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":596.16,"endTime":598.92,"body":"resonated with me and you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":598.92,"endTime":602.82,"body":"right i mean When the when the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":598.92,"endTime":602.82,"body":"new specification came out, I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":602.82,"endTime":608.88,"body":"had a, quite a challenging small"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":602.82,"endTime":608.88,"body":"group of, of year 11 Boys, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":608.91,"endTime":613.59,"body":"one of the context from the exam"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":608.91,"endTime":613.59,"body":"board was need to the disabled."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":614.1,"endTime":618.81,"body":"And when I first said that as a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":614.1,"endTime":618.81,"body":"context to these, these lads,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":618.84,"endTime":622.59,"body":"they were like, you know, all"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":618.84,"endTime":622.59,"body":"their stereotypical views of"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":622.59,"endTime":628.44,"body":"what disabled actually meant"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":622.59,"endTime":628.44,"body":"was, it was quite interesting. I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":628.44,"endTime":632.49,"body":"mean, some, you know, I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":628.44,"endTime":632.49,"body":"share life because they were"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":632.49,"endTime":636.45,"body":"that type of student, but with a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":632.49,"endTime":636.45,"body":"little bit of sort of coaching,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":636.78,"endTime":639.3,"body":"and a little bit of discussion."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":636.78,"endTime":639.3,"body":"I mean, I remember saying to"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":639.3,"endTime":642.78,"body":"them, you know, why don't you"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":639.3,"endTime":642.78,"body":"actually go away and understand"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":642.78,"endTime":646.47,"body":"what does disability actually"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":642.78,"endTime":646.47,"body":"mean. And within a very short"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":646.47,"endTime":649.38,"body":"period of time, they came back"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":646.47,"endTime":649.38,"body":"to me and they said, it's, you"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":649.38,"endTime":652.02,"body":"know, it's amazing how many"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":649.38,"endTime":652.02,"body":"disabilities there actually are,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":652.05,"endTime":655.53,"body":"that we didn't know were called"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":652.05,"endTime":655.53,"body":"disabilities. And one student"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":655.53,"endTime":659.64,"body":"came up to me and said, Sir, is"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":655.53,"endTime":659.64,"body":"mental health a disability? And"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":659.64,"endTime":665.04,"body":"I said, You know what, I don't"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":659.64,"endTime":665.04,"body":"know. I can't answer that. Let's"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":665.04,"endTime":668.37,"body":"go away and find out. And he"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":665.04,"endTime":668.37,"body":"went and did some research. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":668.37,"endTime":672.12,"body":"he came back to me, and he said,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":668.37,"endTime":672.12,"body":"I've discovered that if"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":672.45,"endTime":677.43,"body":"something meets a certain, say,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":672.45,"endTime":677.43,"body":"five criteria, it's considered"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":677.64,"endTime":681.6,"body":"debilitating. And I never knew"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":677.64,"endTime":681.6,"body":"that before. And all of a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":681.6,"endTime":685.44,"body":"sudden, you saw this penny drop"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":681.6,"endTime":685.44,"body":"with the students that actually"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":685.68,"endTime":689.7,"body":"are stereotypical views. They're"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":685.68,"endTime":689.7,"body":"not right. But actually, with a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":689.7,"endTime":691.92,"body":"little bit of thought, and a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":689.7,"endTime":691.92,"body":"little bit of careful"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":691.92,"endTime":695.67,"body":"investigation, were really"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":691.92,"endTime":695.67,"body":"drilling down into this. And one"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":695.67,"endTime":699.39,"body":"of the students out of that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":695.67,"endTime":699.39,"body":"class latched on to the fact"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":699.39,"endTime":702.78,"body":"that in our school, there was a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":699.39,"endTime":702.78,"body":"year seven pupil that had"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":702.78,"endTime":707.31,"body":"recently started that was"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":702.78,"endTime":707.31,"body":"suffering with nystagmus. Quite"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":707.31,"endTime":711.3,"body":"a severe visual impairment. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":707.31,"endTime":711.3,"body":"he went on a journey of"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":711.3,"endTime":714.93,"body":"supporting him and working with"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":711.3,"endTime":714.93,"body":"him. And I remember that year"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":714.93,"endTime":719.58,"body":"seven students coming into the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":714.93,"endTime":719.58,"body":"classroom, and testing models"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":719.58,"endTime":723.63,"body":"and prototypes that this year 11"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":719.58,"endTime":723.63,"body":"student had made, and to just"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":723.63,"endTime":727.74,"body":"sit there and witness that was"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":723.63,"endTime":727.74,"body":"incredibly powerful. And, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":727.74,"endTime":732.12,"body":"James is right. Actually having"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":727.74,"endTime":732.12,"body":"that in front of you and seeing"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":732.12,"endTime":737.07,"body":"it for real, really resonated"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":732.12,"endTime":737.07,"body":"with not only me, but with all"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":737.07,"endTime":740.52,"body":"the other students. And I always"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":737.07,"endTime":740.52,"body":"pull that example out every"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":740.52,"endTime":744.63,"body":"single year and say, Look at"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":740.52,"endTime":744.63,"body":"this, and students are now more"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":745.41,"endTime":749.16,"body":"there empathising, more with"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":745.41,"endTime":749.16,"body":"what's going on around them. So"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":749.16,"endTime":752.76,"body":"you know, we have students in"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":749.16,"endTime":752.76,"body":"our school that suffer with"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":752.76,"endTime":756.6,"body":"Dyslexia as all schools do. But"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":752.76,"endTime":756.6,"body":"there's a lot of students that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":756.6,"endTime":760.08,"body":"have dyslexic tendencies. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":756.6,"endTime":760.08,"body":"I've had students that have"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":760.08,"endTime":763.5,"body":"said, Look, we know that their"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":760.08,"endTime":763.5,"body":"students, I myself suffer with"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":763.5,"endTime":766.65,"body":"dyslexia, they would say, but"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":763.5,"endTime":766.65,"body":"they would also come back to you"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":766.65,"endTime":770.04,"body":"and say, but I've identified"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":766.65,"endTime":770.04,"body":"that there students that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":770.04,"endTime":773.31,"body":"struggle with reading and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":770.04,"endTime":773.31,"body":"writing, that aren't diagnosed"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":773.31,"endTime":776.88,"body":"with dyslexia. And it's the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":773.31,"endTime":776.88,"body":"students that are saying that,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":777.39,"endTime":779.82,"body":"and for me, that's really,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":777.39,"endTime":779.82,"body":"really powerful, because it's"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":779.82,"endTime":784.5,"body":"getting them to understand what"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":779.82,"endTime":784.5,"body":"is going on, around them in"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":784.5,"endTime":789.0,"body":"their classrooms, their mates,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":784.5,"endTime":789.0,"body":"as James has said, relatives,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":789.3,"endTime":792.39,"body":"and they're able to understand"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":789.3,"endTime":792.39,"body":"and empathise with it a lot"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":792.39,"endTime":796.71,"body":"better. And therefore, that has"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":792.39,"endTime":796.71,"body":"massive influence on the work"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":796.71,"endTime":797.28,"body":"that they do."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":798.0,"endTime":799.83,"body":"Well, that that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":798.0,"endTime":799.83,"body":"was a bit that I was I was"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":799.83,"endTime":802.86,"body":"leading onto as you were both"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":799.83,"endTime":802.86,"body":"talking. So you know, giving"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":802.86,"endTime":808.77,"body":"examples about empathy and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":802.86,"endTime":808.77,"body":"understanding different groups"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":808.77,"endTime":813.33,"body":"of people, you know, a value"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":808.77,"endTime":813.33,"body":"areas around children, learning"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":813.33,"endTime":817.8,"body":"about, you know, the life beyond"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":813.33,"endTime":817.8,"body":"their own sphere and starting to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":818.1,"endTime":820.65,"body":"stand in other people's shoes"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":818.1,"endTime":820.65,"body":"and have that have that empathy"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":820.65,"endTime":822.66,"body":"about been able to walk"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":820.65,"endTime":822.66,"body":"alongside them and understand"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":822.66,"endTime":826.23,"body":"it. So my thinking was, well,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":822.66,"endTime":826.23,"body":"that that is all great, and that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":826.32,"endTime":830.49,"body":"and that phrase, doesn't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":826.32,"endTime":830.49,"body":"belittle the power of what's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":830.49,"endTime":834.18,"body":"happening. But it's what's the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":830.49,"endTime":834.18,"body":"context and the purpose of that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":834.18,"endTime":838.92,"body":"within design and technology"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":834.18,"endTime":838.92,"body":"development? And so I'd sort of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":838.92,"endTime":844.05,"body":"written the question, and I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":838.92,"endTime":844.05,"body":"mean, the impact is powerful in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":844.05,"endTime":847.95,"body":"terms of their humanity, and who"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":844.05,"endTime":847.95,"body":"they are as people, and that and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":847.95,"endTime":851.04,"body":"that development. But then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":847.95,"endTime":851.04,"body":"relating this back to Design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":851.04,"endTime":855.66,"body":"Technology. What difference does"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":851.04,"endTime":855.66,"body":"this greater deeper"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":855.66,"endTime":860.85,"body":"understanding empathy make for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":855.66,"endTime":860.85,"body":"developing their DMT capability?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":860.85,"endTime":863.07,"body":"So I suppose that's the next"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":860.85,"endTime":863.07,"body":"part of it is it'd be really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":863.07,"endTime":867.72,"body":"interested to hear how you see"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":863.07,"endTime":867.72,"body":"and why you see this important"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":867.72,"endTime":871.02,"body":"in terms of developing their DMT"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":867.72,"endTime":871.02,"body":"capability."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":871.41,"endTime":872.01,"body":"I mean, I"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":872.279,"endTime":876.689,"body":"think just see, so"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":872.279,"endTime":876.689,"body":"I think the sometimes you can"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":877.199,"endTime":881.759,"body":"ask a pupil to come up with a or"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":877.199,"endTime":881.759,"body":"certainly on the old spec, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":881.759,"endTime":884.549,"body":"you kind of had a number of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":881.759,"endTime":884.549,"body":"designs they had to come up with"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":884.549,"endTime":887.639,"body":"in their head. You know, we"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":884.549,"endTime":887.639,"body":"needed to see a full page of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":887.639,"endTime":890.609,"body":"ideas or three full pages of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":887.639,"endTime":890.609,"body":"ideas and then develop three"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":890.609,"endTime":895.919,"body":"more. And I think that giving"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":890.609,"endTime":895.919,"body":"pupils a well informed starting"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":895.919,"endTime":902.519,"body":"point can really work enhance"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":895.919,"endTime":902.519,"body":"their their ability in design,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":902.819,"endTime":906.599,"body":"you know, they, what design is,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":902.819,"endTime":906.599,"body":"is about problem solving, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":906.599,"endTime":908.819,"body":"know, we're trying to help"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":906.599,"endTime":908.819,"body":"somebody to do something, or"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":909.119,"endTime":912.389,"body":"we're trying to help somebody"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":909.119,"endTime":912.389,"body":"and make their life a little bit"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":912.449,"endTime":916.439,"body":"easier in some way. And it's not"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":912.449,"endTime":916.439,"body":"always it's not always but not"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":916.439,"endTime":919.259,"body":"well, no, not always. But I"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":916.439,"endTime":919.259,"body":"think that, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":919.259,"endTime":923.909,"body":"certainly what I like to explore"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":919.259,"endTime":923.909,"body":"in similar tasks, when we are"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":923.909,"endTime":927.719,"body":"looking at empathy. You know, we"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":923.909,"endTime":927.719,"body":"are, we are trying to look at"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":927.719,"endTime":932.009,"body":"real life problems, real life"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":927.719,"endTime":932.009,"body":"solutions, you know, we might"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":932.009,"endTime":936.359,"body":"not always get through to, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":932.009,"endTime":936.359,"body":"know, an advanced solution, but"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":936.359,"endTime":940.319,"body":"it's, it's about their design"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":936.359,"endTime":940.319,"body":"thinking. And sometimes, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":940.319,"endTime":942.569,"body":"know, the tasks are purely"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":940.319,"endTime":942.569,"body":"designed based without"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":942.569,"endTime":945.929,"body":"prototyping. So there are all"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":942.569,"endTime":945.929,"body":"kinds of tests that you can do,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":945.929,"endTime":950.849,"body":"where the pupils tend to have,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":945.929,"endTime":950.849,"body":"like a different level of kind"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":950.849,"endTime":953.879,"body":"of how open their mind is when"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":950.849,"endTime":953.879,"body":"they're putting their pencil to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":953.879,"endTime":958.289,"body":"paper. So I think that the more"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":953.879,"endTime":958.289,"body":"people that they can learn from"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":958.289,"endTime":962.579,"body":"the, you know, guess we talked"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":958.289,"endTime":962.579,"body":"about humanity in there and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":962.579,"endTime":966.749,"body":"improving people as human"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":962.579,"endTime":966.749,"body":"beings, but I think that it just"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":966.749,"endTime":970.739,"body":"gets them to think of all these"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":966.749,"endTime":970.739,"body":"unknown problems, and then that"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":970.739,"endTime":974.519,"body":"really concentrating as they are"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":970.739,"endTime":974.519,"body":"coming up with an idea about,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":974.789,"endTime":977.399,"body":"you know, how something might"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":974.789,"endTime":977.399,"body":"feel or how something might"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":977.399,"endTime":980.489,"body":"look, or does it attract"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":977.399,"endTime":980.489,"body":"attention? Or, you know, how"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":980.489,"endTime":983.129,"body":"could it be stored when not"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":980.489,"endTime":983.129,"body":"being used. And I think that the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":983.129,"endTime":987.239,"body":"greater understanding of the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":983.129,"endTime":987.239,"body":"person's needs, the, the sort of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":987.239,"endTime":989.639,"body":"greater starting point they're"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":987.239,"endTime":989.639,"body":"at with their design."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":990.39,"endTime":992.94,"body":"I think also, it's,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":990.39,"endTime":992.94,"body":"for me, as well, it's like a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":992.94,"endTime":996.84,"body":"journey of discovery in terms of"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":992.94,"endTime":996.84,"body":"luck. If you want to categorise"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":996.84,"endTime":1000.59,"body":"it as a skill, or an attribute."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":996.84,"endTime":1000.59,"body":"It's like that journey of"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1000.59,"endTime":1004.67,"body":"discovery. And sometimes they"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1000.59,"endTime":1004.67,"body":"might be setting out to address"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1004.67,"endTime":1009.59,"body":"a particular problem or a need,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1004.67,"endTime":1009.59,"body":"or a difficulty, but actually,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1009.59,"endTime":1013.76,"body":"they might along the way,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1009.59,"endTime":1013.76,"body":"discover something else. And it"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1013.76,"endTime":1016.97,"body":"might go in a different"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1013.76,"endTime":1016.97,"body":"direction. And I mean, for me,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1016.97,"endTime":1020.51,"body":"as well. And I mentioned John"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1016.97,"endTime":1020.51,"body":"Willis earlier, but one of the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1020.51,"endTime":1026.54,"body":"things that struck me with John"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1020.51,"endTime":1026.54,"body":"who was born disabled, he came"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1026.54,"endTime":1029.39,"body":"in and did some work with our"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1026.54,"endTime":1029.39,"body":"students. But it was very much"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1029.39,"endTime":1033.23,"body":"about the simplistic approach,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1029.39,"endTime":1033.23,"body":"that actually it doesn't have to"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1033.23,"endTime":1037.1,"body":"be overly complicated. And what"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1033.23,"endTime":1037.1,"body":"he did with our students was he"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1037.1,"endTime":1042.26,"body":"showed them very overdesigned if"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1037.1,"endTime":1042.26,"body":"they're the right, if that's the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1042.26,"endTime":1048.56,"body":"right term, or term, or very,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1042.26,"endTime":1048.56,"body":"very complicated items that made"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1048.56,"endTime":1052.61,"body":"his day to day life actually"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1048.56,"endTime":1052.61,"body":"worse. And then he got out these"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1052.61,"endTime":1057.29,"body":"simple approaches and kids were"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1052.61,"endTime":1057.29,"body":"like, actually, yeah, that that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1057.29,"endTime":1062.66,"body":"like him. And he thinks as"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1057.29,"endTime":1062.66,"body":"simple as, like a chip fryer in"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1062.66,"endTime":1067.94,"body":"a pan to cook his vegetables. So"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1062.66,"endTime":1067.94,"body":"when he pulls it out of the pan,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1068.0,"endTime":1071.66,"body":"the water stays in the pan, but"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1068.0,"endTime":1071.66,"body":"he's vegetables are in the cage."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1072.41,"endTime":1075.71,"body":"little simple things like that,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1072.41,"endTime":1075.71,"body":"and doing these buttons up"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1075.71,"endTime":1080.33,"body":"because he's got no, no arms or"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1075.71,"endTime":1080.33,"body":"hands. And it's just a piece of"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1080.33,"endTime":1082.97,"body":"metal with a loop and a hook on"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1080.33,"endTime":1082.97,"body":"it. And the kids were sort of"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1082.97,"endTime":1087.56,"body":"like, wow, it doesn't actually"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1082.97,"endTime":1087.56,"body":"have to be this all singing, all"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1087.56,"endTime":1091.7,"body":"dancing, electronic sort of"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1087.56,"endTime":1091.7,"body":"fandangled thing that is"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1091.7,"endTime":1095.15,"body":"attached, it can be something"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1091.7,"endTime":1095.15,"body":"that's very, very simple and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1095.15,"endTime":1099.08,"body":"very, very easy that might get"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1095.15,"endTime":1099.08,"body":"missed. And for me, that was,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1099.5,"endTime":1102.41,"body":"that was very, very interesting,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1099.5,"endTime":1102.41,"body":"that sort of simplistic"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1102.41,"endTime":1105.35,"body":"approach, but to have him"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1102.41,"endTime":1105.35,"body":"working with the students,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1105.35,"endTime":1108.59,"body":"again, was really, really"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1105.35,"endTime":1108.59,"body":"powerful. So yeah, there's the"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1108.59,"endTime":1111.77,"body":"journey of discovery, I think is"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1108.59,"endTime":1111.77,"body":"a really, really important one."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1112.88,"endTime":1114.89,"body":"Right? So So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1112.88,"endTime":1114.89,"body":"what's an interesting is,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1114.92,"endTime":1121.82,"body":"you're, you're using these real"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1114.92,"endTime":1121.82,"body":"life contexts, for a better"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1121.82,"endTime":1126.8,"body":"phrase, in some ways, with"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1121.82,"endTime":1126.8,"body":"people that, that they know, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1126.8,"endTime":1130.37,"body":"talked about your seven child,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1126.8,"endTime":1130.37,"body":"people that they're familiar"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1130.37,"endTime":1134.93,"body":"with people they have access to,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1130.37,"endTime":1134.93,"body":"and they can gain a deeper"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1134.93,"endTime":1138.5,"body":"understanding with. There's also"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1134.93,"endTime":1138.5,"body":"people that are outside that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1138.5,"endTime":1143.84,"body":"they can't touch, if that makes"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1138.5,"endTime":1143.84,"body":"sense. In terms of you can't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1143.84,"endTime":1148.31,"body":"bring them into the classroom."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1143.84,"endTime":1148.31,"body":"But it's how do you then, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1148.31,"endTime":1150.65,"body":"know, you've I think you've both"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1148.31,"endTime":1150.65,"body":"touched on this a little bit is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1150.83,"endTime":1153.71,"body":"you take that, and they have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1150.83,"endTime":1153.71,"body":"that now deeper understanding of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1153.71,"endTime":1156.74,"body":"the context, the problem, the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1153.71,"endTime":1156.74,"body":"situation, the the real life"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1156.74,"endTime":1160.58,"body":"issues that people have that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1156.74,"endTime":1160.58,"body":"that they weren't previously"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1160.58,"endTime":1164.39,"body":"familiar with, is then taking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1160.58,"endTime":1164.39,"body":"those thoughts and moving it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1164.39,"endTime":1170.33,"body":"into an action of resolution of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1164.39,"endTime":1170.33,"body":"design solutions, design ideas,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1170.6,"endTime":1173.96,"body":"how do you how do you kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1170.6,"endTime":1173.96,"body":"then bring that into the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1173.96,"endTime":1176.84,"body":"classroom in terms of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1173.96,"endTime":1176.84,"body":"we've really understood the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1176.84,"endTime":1183.02,"body":"situation. What's the what's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1176.84,"endTime":1183.02,"body":"next? You know, the designing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1183.02,"endTime":1186.86,"body":"the resolving, how do you do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1183.02,"endTime":1186.86,"body":"that? What you're doing with it?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1187.16,"endTime":1188.87,"body":"How do you keep people involved?"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1189.65,"endTime":1193.82,"body":"Sorry, just to my"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1189.65,"endTime":1193.82,"body":"daughter appear at the door. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1193.91,"endTime":1196.16,"body":"it's okay, a bit"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1193.91,"endTime":1196.16,"body":"of background noise. As always,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1196.19,"endTime":1198.23,"body":"it's always useful. It's not my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1196.19,"endTime":1198.23,"body":"dog this week."},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1198.53,"endTime":1202.16,"body":"It's fine. I think"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1198.53,"endTime":1202.16,"body":"we've we've as again, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1202.16,"endTime":1205.49,"body":"we're we're discovering that at"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1202.16,"endTime":1205.49,"body":"the moment too, because you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1205.49,"endTime":1209.48,"body":"know, all of these project ideas"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1205.49,"endTime":1209.48,"body":"or opportunities that we've kind"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1209.48,"endTime":1216.08,"body":"of stumbled across across the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1209.48,"endTime":1216.08,"body":"years, and we're learning at the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1216.08,"endTime":1220.88,"body":"same time. 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And"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1235.49,"endTime":1240.11,"body":"then we give pupils an"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1235.49,"endTime":1240.11,"body":"opportunity then to look at a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1240.11,"endTime":1245.39,"body":"topic related to medical needs,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1240.11,"endTime":1245.39,"body":"and we give them the freedom of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1245.39,"endTime":1249.8,"body":"a few weeks to then present"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1245.39,"endTime":1249.8,"body":"back. Sometimes it can lead to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1249.83,"endTime":1253.55,"body":"opportunities, where, as Dave"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1249.83,"endTime":1253.55,"body":"said, somebody notices your work"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1253.55,"endTime":1256.34,"body":"and then comes in, it just"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1253.55,"endTime":1256.34,"body":"enhances that learning"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1256.34,"endTime":1260.03,"body":"experience for the pupils, it"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1256.34,"endTime":1260.03,"body":"might even present somebody that"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1260.03,"endTime":1265.52,"body":"they are contacts that they can,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1260.03,"endTime":1265.52,"body":"you know, make use of later down"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1265.52,"endTime":1269.6,"body":"the line when they get into the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1265.52,"endTime":1269.6,"body":"sort of real design and make"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1269.6,"endTime":1275.57,"body":"coursework projects. But at the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1269.6,"endTime":1275.57,"body":"same time, we found that when we"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1275.57,"endTime":1280.01,"body":"do projects like that, more and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1275.57,"endTime":1280.01,"body":"more stories come out, as we"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1280.01,"endTime":1282.83,"body":"mentioned earlier about people"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1280.01,"endTime":1282.83,"body":"they know, outside of school,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1283.16,"endTime":1285.95,"body":"and I think it you know, it"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1283.16,"endTime":1285.95,"body":"makes them you get pupils that"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1285.95,"endTime":1289.43,"body":"pop back and they go, Alright,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1285.95,"endTime":1289.43,"body":"I've designed this to try and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1289.43,"endTime":1294.32,"body":"help my dad do this, or my"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1289.43,"endTime":1294.32,"body":"cousin do this, or my helper do"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1294.32,"endTime":1299.54,"body":"this. And, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1294.32,"endTime":1299.54,"body":"interesting to see them take"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1299.78,"endTime":1303.11,"body":"take on tasks by themselves for"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1299.78,"endTime":1303.11,"body":"problems that they've spotted"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1303.11,"endTime":1307.13,"body":"themselves. We find a lot of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1303.11,"endTime":1307.13,"body":"people that do EP Q over here,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1307.13,"endTime":1311.81,"body":"which is a an extra"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1307.13,"endTime":1311.81,"body":"qualification. And I coming back"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1311.81,"endTime":1313.97,"body":"into the workshop, and they're,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1311.81,"endTime":1313.97,"body":"you know, they're taking on"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1313.97,"endTime":1316.01,"body":"these skills that they've"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1313.97,"endTime":1316.01,"body":"previously learned to DT, and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1316.01,"endTime":1319.1,"body":"they're wanting to apply them to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1316.01,"endTime":1319.1,"body":"kind of random projects that"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1319.1,"endTime":1323.12,"body":"they do. But then we also, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1319.1,"endTime":1323.12,"body":"know, we have a young lad who's"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1323.15,"endTime":1329.72,"body":"has a, a chariot equals sort of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1323.15,"endTime":1329.72,"body":"walking frame to assist him."},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1330.11,"endTime":1333.74,"body":"And, you know, he turned up,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1330.11,"endTime":1333.74,"body":"because, I mean, he goes around"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1333.74,"endTime":1337.19,"body":"really fast on this thing around"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1333.74,"endTime":1337.19,"body":"school. And he had snapped a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1337.19,"endTime":1340.79,"body":"handle off, he'd basically gone"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1337.19,"endTime":1340.79,"body":"through one of the bolts. And my"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1340.79,"endTime":1343.79,"body":"sixth formers are in there. And"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1340.79,"endTime":1343.79,"body":"we're we're doing an assistive"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1343.79,"endTime":1346.97,"body":"device project at the moment."},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1343.79,"endTime":1346.97,"body":"And they, they just gathered"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1346.97,"endTime":1349.7,"body":"around him straightaway. And"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1346.97,"endTime":1349.7,"body":"they were they were analysing"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1349.94,"endTime":1352.76,"body":"his chariot, and they were"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1349.94,"endTime":1352.76,"body":"discussing ways that they might"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1352.76,"endTime":1356.39,"body":"be able to fix it. And then they"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1352.76,"endTime":1356.39,"body":"were learning from this lat,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1357.02,"endTime":1360.02,"body":"about the other problems that he"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1357.02,"endTime":1360.02,"body":"has with his chariot, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1360.02,"endTime":1362.06,"body":"what would he do to improve it?"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1360.02,"endTime":1362.06,"body":"And they were saying, well,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1362.3,"endTime":1365.78,"body":"couldn't we design something now"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1362.3,"endTime":1365.78,"body":"and 3d printed and see if that"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1365.78,"endTime":1368.93,"body":"will work for him for when he's"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1365.78,"endTime":1368.93,"body":"going around school? I think it"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1368.93,"endTime":1373.22,"body":"just opens doors, if anything,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1368.93,"endTime":1373.22,"body":"you know, it is nice to try and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1373.58,"endTime":1377.96,"body":"direct certain pupils. Well, I"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1373.58,"endTime":1377.96,"body":"don't like to direct them too"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1377.96,"endTime":1383.99,"body":"much. But to give them more"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1377.96,"endTime":1383.99,"body":"exciting projects at GCSE, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1383.99,"endTime":1387.71,"body":"know, when they get I think a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1383.99,"endTime":1387.71,"body":"lot of it is around that real"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1387.71,"endTime":1391.67,"body":"person, you know, having a live"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1387.71,"endTime":1391.67,"body":"project, because what I don't"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1391.67,"endTime":1395.63,"body":"think there is the engagement"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1391.67,"endTime":1395.63,"body":"when they just pick their"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1395.63,"endTime":1398.42,"body":"customer is a 14 year old, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1395.63,"endTime":1398.42,"body":"know, and they've Googled an"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1398.42,"endTime":1400.76,"body":"image of one, you know, if"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1398.42,"endTime":1400.76,"body":"they've got these real life"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1400.76,"endTime":1405.68,"body":"contexts, and they've, they've"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1400.76,"endTime":1405.68,"body":"been trained to have these"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1405.68,"endTime":1408.86,"body":"conversations with people and to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1405.68,"endTime":1408.86,"body":"learn more from them, I think"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1408.86,"endTime":1412.61,"body":"they're more likely to have"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1408.86,"endTime":1412.61,"body":"valid powerful projects as they"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1412.61,"endTime":1416.72,"body":"get into GCSE as they get to a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1412.61,"endTime":1416.72,"body":"level and that's only really"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1416.72,"endTime":1419.78,"body":"going to enhance their love for"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1416.72,"endTime":1419.78,"body":"the subject. So, you know, are"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1419.78,"endTime":1424.79,"body":"we hopefully bringing better"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1419.78,"endTime":1424.79,"body":"device designers into the world"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1424.79,"endTime":1429.92,"body":"you know, more more open minded"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1424.79,"endTime":1429.92,"body":"designers, people that want to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1429.92,"endTime":1431.03,"body":"make a real difference."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1431.9,"endTime":1437.33,"body":"I mean, I I'd use"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1431.9,"endTime":1437.33,"body":"the word unlocking what I found"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1437.33,"endTime":1441.71,"body":"is that unlocks I suppose their"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1437.33,"endTime":1441.71,"body":"awareness and they look at"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1441.71,"endTime":1445.13,"body":"things or we want them to look"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1441.71,"endTime":1445.13,"body":"at things through different"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1445.13,"endTime":1448.31,"body":"eyes, because I think sometimes"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1445.13,"endTime":1448.31,"body":"they can be quite clouded I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1448.31,"endTime":1451.88,"body":"mean, that two or three years"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1448.31,"endTime":1451.88,"body":"ago, we decided to introduce"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1452.36,"endTime":1457.79,"body":"identifying needs and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1452.36,"endTime":1457.79,"body":"difficulties as a unit of work"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1457.85,"endTime":1460.94,"body":"in year seven, because we fail"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1457.85,"endTime":1460.94,"body":"you know, if you're not"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1460.97,"endTime":1463.85,"body":"targeting the students lower"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1460.97,"endTime":1463.85,"body":"down the score and even at"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1463.85,"endTime":1466.97,"body":"primary level, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1463.85,"endTime":1466.97,"body":"you're if you're doing it right"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1466.97,"endTime":1470.12,"body":"then by the time they get up to"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1466.97,"endTime":1470.12,"body":"GCSE, like James has said they"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1470.12,"endTime":1473.54,"body":"get to GCSE and they get to a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1470.12,"endTime":1473.54,"body":"level and they're better"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1474.44,"endTime":1478.34,"body":"designers. So for more remains"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1474.44,"endTime":1478.34,"body":"as well and more independent."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1478.34,"endTime":1482.42,"body":"Yes, so you can throw pretty"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1478.34,"endTime":1482.42,"body":"much not literally, but you can"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1482.42,"endTime":1486.26,"body":"pretty much throw anything at"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1482.42,"endTime":1486.26,"body":"them. And then they'll you can"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1486.26,"endTime":1490.85,"body":"see their minds are working. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1486.26,"endTime":1490.85,"body":"I think the coat that James use"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1490.85,"endTime":1494.9,"body":"the word coaching and guidance I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1490.85,"endTime":1494.9,"body":"think if you do that a lower"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1494.9,"endTime":1498.86,"body":"age, lower down the skull, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1494.9,"endTime":1498.86,"body":"then you keep revisiting it."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1498.86,"endTime":1502.64,"body":"That's what I found is It's no"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1498.86,"endTime":1502.64,"body":"good doing, say a unit of work"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1502.64,"endTime":1505.76,"body":"at the beginning of year seven,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1502.64,"endTime":1505.76,"body":"and then forgetting about it,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1505.79,"endTime":1508.58,"body":"and then coming back in year"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1505.79,"endTime":1508.58,"body":"nine or year 10. And saying,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1508.58,"endTime":1512.09,"body":"right, we're going to revisit"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1508.58,"endTime":1512.09,"body":"context. For me, it's about that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1512.21,"endTime":1517.31,"body":"drip feeding all the time. So"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1512.21,"endTime":1517.31,"body":"things like regular contextual"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1517.31,"endTime":1522.47,"body":"challenges, little mini"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1517.31,"endTime":1522.47,"body":"competitions, trying to get real"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1522.47,"endTime":1527.15,"body":"life people in to address real"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1522.47,"endTime":1527.15,"body":"problems. I mean, even even"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1527.3,"endTime":1531.35,"body":"things like not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1527.3,"endTime":1531.35,"body":"humans, but the things to do"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1531.35,"endTime":1534.68,"body":"with pets, and anything like"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1531.35,"endTime":1534.68,"body":"that, you know, there's all"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1534.68,"endTime":1537.92,"body":"sorts of things that can be"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1534.68,"endTime":1537.92,"body":"done. But is that for me, is"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1537.92,"endTime":1541.07,"body":"that unlocking? And it's that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1537.92,"endTime":1541.07,"body":"awareness and looking at things"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1541.25,"endTime":1543.62,"body":"through different eyes? And then"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1541.25,"endTime":1543.62,"body":"once they've gone through that,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1543.62,"endTime":1546.35,"body":"and they're regularly going"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1543.62,"endTime":1546.35,"body":"through that, it just becomes"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1546.35,"endTime":1550.4,"body":"automatic? And isn't that what"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1546.35,"endTime":1550.4,"body":"we're doing? Anyway, when we're"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1550.4,"endTime":1555.02,"body":"teaching them, we want to teach"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1550.4,"endTime":1555.02,"body":"them. We want to teach them"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1555.02,"endTime":1558.17,"body":"things. And then we want them to"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1555.02,"endTime":1558.17,"body":"take it away and develop it and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1558.17,"endTime":1562.28,"body":"enhance it, and revisit and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1558.17,"endTime":1562.28,"body":"embed it. And we want them to do"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1562.28,"endTime":1566.99,"body":"that with empathy and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1562.28,"endTime":1566.99,"body":"understanding, don't we? We do."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1567.05,"endTime":1567.32,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1568.07,"endTime":1569.9,"body":"you make him I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1568.07,"endTime":1569.9,"body":"going to I'm going to chip in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1569.9,"endTime":1572.39,"body":"again, because when you were"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1569.9,"endTime":1572.39,"body":"talking about identifying needs,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1572.69,"endTime":1575.03,"body":"and we started this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1572.69,"endTime":1575.03,"body":"conversation, Dave, with you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1575.03,"endTime":1578.06,"body":"talking about how empathy has"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1575.03,"endTime":1578.06,"body":"actually kind of been there all"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1578.06,"endTime":1580.07,"body":"the time, in the background"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1578.06,"endTime":1580.07,"body":"around design intelligence,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1580.07,"endTime":1584.12,"body":"sometimes it comes to the fore,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1580.07,"endTime":1584.12,"body":"is if you were around in the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1584.12,"endTime":1589.22,"body":"2000s and late 1990s, the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1584.12,"endTime":1589.22,"body":"Nuffield resources and the PI's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1589.22,"endTime":1592.52,"body":"approach, where you explored the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1589.22,"endTime":1592.52,"body":"physical, intellectual,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1592.52,"endTime":1597.26,"body":"emotional and social needs. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1592.52,"endTime":1597.26,"body":"that was a framework that's in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1597.65,"endTime":1599.93,"body":"in the Nuffield stuff, and I'll"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1597.65,"endTime":1599.93,"body":"put a link in the show notes"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1599.93,"endTime":1605.51,"body":"too. It's on Deonte, for the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1599.93,"endTime":1605.51,"body":"anti bollocks and Tobin's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1605.63,"endTime":1611.96,"body":"website. And that that was that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1605.63,"endTime":1611.96,"body":"was really helpful to kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1611.96,"endTime":1614.21,"body":"give a frame of let's look at"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1611.96,"endTime":1614.21,"body":"the physical needs, the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1614.21,"endTime":1616.22,"body":"intellectual needs, the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1614.21,"endTime":1616.22,"body":"emotional and the social. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1616.22,"endTime":1620.51,"body":"it's hard. It is hard. It you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1616.22,"endTime":1620.51,"body":"know, and I think we kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1620.51,"endTime":1622.4,"body":"have to be really clear"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1620.51,"endTime":1622.4,"body":"sometimes in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1622.4,"endTime":1626.45,"body":"technology, that the learning"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1622.4,"endTime":1626.45,"body":"the thinking is hard, having"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1626.48,"endTime":1630.23,"body":"empathy, having an understanding"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1626.48,"endTime":1630.23,"body":"of things that are outside our"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1630.23,"endTime":1634.19,"body":"own world, are really difficult."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1630.23,"endTime":1634.19,"body":"But that is one of the things"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1634.19,"endTime":1637.31,"body":"that a good designer can do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1634.19,"endTime":1637.31,"body":"really well. And so actually,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1637.31,"endTime":1639.44,"body":"what I think what you're you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1637.31,"endTime":1639.44,"body":"both trying to do, and you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1639.44,"endTime":1643.76,"body":"both talking about is this, yes,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1639.44,"endTime":1643.76,"body":"you're unlocking, but underneath"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1643.76,"endTime":1646.88,"body":"that you're giving these"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1643.76,"endTime":1646.88,"body":"children, the experience of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1646.91,"endTime":1651.65,"body":"understanding things in a design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1646.91,"endTime":1651.65,"body":"as a designer word, by having an"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1651.65,"endTime":1654.47,"body":"understanding of different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1651.65,"endTime":1654.47,"body":"people, different contexts, in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1654.47,"endTime":1658.61,"body":"such a real way that when"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1654.47,"endTime":1658.61,"body":"they're designing, they're able"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1658.61,"endTime":1661.46,"body":"to draw on that understanding"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1658.61,"endTime":1661.46,"body":"and be able to put themselves in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1661.46,"endTime":1664.82,"body":"those places to be able to come"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1661.46,"endTime":1664.82,"body":"up with resolutions that are,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1665.15,"endTime":1668.48,"body":"are more appropriate than as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1665.15,"endTime":1668.48,"body":"your colleague John has said."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1668.72,"endTime":1672.14,"body":"It's a knick knack, that is just"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1668.72,"endTime":1672.14,"body":"so complex. It's it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1672.14,"endTime":1675.74,"body":"unrealistic. And and so I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1672.14,"endTime":1675.74,"body":"that that is that is something"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1675.74,"endTime":1680.81,"body":"to, to think about is what what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1675.74,"endTime":1680.81,"body":"this is doing is actually giving"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1680.81,"endTime":1684.2,"body":"them those design thinking you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1680.81,"endTime":1684.2,"body":"use the term, James, it's a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1684.2,"endTime":1686.78,"body":"contentious phrase, we're not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1684.2,"endTime":1686.78,"body":"kind of all quite clear and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1686.78,"endTime":1690.44,"body":"agree about what we mean by"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1686.78,"endTime":1690.44,"body":"design thinking. To do that to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1690.47,"endTime":1693.23,"body":"to resolve things. And then the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1690.47,"endTime":1693.23,"body":"other thing I wanted to just"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1694.34,"endTime":1697.64,"body":"pick up on that you you were"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1694.34,"endTime":1697.64,"body":"both talking about, about kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1697.64,"endTime":1702.83,"body":"of revisiting things. And again,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1697.64,"endTime":1702.83,"body":"this, this goes back to 1990s."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1703.16,"endTime":1705.77,"body":"And work that Dave Perry did at"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1703.16,"endTime":1705.77,"body":"the Royal College of Art around"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1705.77,"endTime":1709.01,"body":"the spiral curriculum. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1705.77,"endTime":1709.01,"body":"Christine Council talks about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1709.01,"endTime":1713.42,"body":"this when she talks about what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1709.01,"endTime":1713.42,"body":"do middle leaders of subjects"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1713.45,"endTime":1716.78,"body":"heads heads department, middle"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1713.45,"endTime":1716.78,"body":"school leaders, have you ever"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1716.78,"endTime":1719.72,"body":"think about in their curriculum,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1716.78,"endTime":1719.72,"body":"you know, so what are you doing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1719.72,"endTime":1723.14,"body":"in year nine that builds on what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1719.72,"endTime":1723.14,"body":"they did in year seven, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1723.14,"endTime":1726.62,"body":"know, and that spiral, and it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1723.14,"endTime":1726.62,"body":"kind of quite natural in design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1726.62,"endTime":1728.99,"body":"and technology that we we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1726.62,"endTime":1728.99,"body":"actually kind of do plan a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1728.99,"endTime":1731.0,"body":"spiral curriculum, although we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1728.99,"endTime":1731.0,"body":"don't necessarily read it. I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1731.0,"endTime":1734.54,"body":"mean, we're working with a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1731.0,"endTime":1734.54,"body":"fantastic Head of Department of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1734.57,"endTime":1738.26,"body":"Army. And we've been talking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1734.57,"endTime":1738.26,"body":"about the spiral curriculum and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1738.26,"endTime":1740.99,"body":"design and technology and really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1738.26,"endTime":1740.99,"body":"constructing it with care about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1740.99,"endTime":1744.74,"body":"when do we revisit things. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1740.99,"endTime":1744.74,"body":"this comes back to what you were"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1744.74,"endTime":1748.19,"body":"saying earlier, James, about the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1744.74,"endTime":1748.19,"body":"surface and the deep learning"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1748.19,"endTime":1750.65,"body":"because you were talking about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1748.19,"endTime":1750.65,"body":"do you do touch a lot of things"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1750.65,"endTime":1754.43,"body":"or do you go go deeper? And so"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1750.65,"endTime":1754.43,"body":"some people listening to smoking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1754.43,"endTime":1756.68,"body":"crack, this is another thing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1754.43,"endTime":1756.68,"body":"that I've got to bring into my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1756.68,"endTime":1760.58,"body":"curriculum. And that's why I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1756.68,"endTime":1760.58,"body":"keep coming back to how is this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1760.58,"endTime":1763.61,"body":"developing children's DMT"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1760.58,"endTime":1763.61,"body":"capability because to me, that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1763.61,"endTime":1767.63,"body":"is the essence of what for DMT"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1763.61,"endTime":1767.63,"body":"curriculum is doing. And so if"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1767.63,"endTime":1771.68,"body":"we can justify and understand"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1767.63,"endTime":1771.68,"body":"that, what what this thing is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1771.68,"endTime":1774.02,"body":"that we're teaching and what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1771.68,"endTime":1774.02,"body":"it's doing to develop the ante"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1774.02,"endTime":1776.42,"body":"capability, and where we're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1774.02,"endTime":1776.42,"body":"teaching it and where we're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1776.42,"endTime":1780.71,"body":"building on it in a spiral"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1776.42,"endTime":1780.71,"body":"curriculum. As we're developing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1780.71,"endTime":1784.07,"body":"these young people, as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1780.71,"endTime":1784.07,"body":"autonomous learners, I use the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1784.07,"endTime":1786.23,"body":"word autonomous rather than"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1784.07,"endTime":1786.23,"body":"independent listen to previous"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1786.23,"endTime":1791.06,"body":"podcast and you'll find out why."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1786.23,"endTime":1791.06,"body":"And but I think I think that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1791.18,"endTime":1793.76,"body":"that's kind of all part of it."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1791.18,"endTime":1793.76,"body":"So I'm what I'm trying to do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1793.76,"endTime":1796.49,"body":"there is bring in what you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1793.76,"endTime":1796.49,"body":"talking about, about empathy,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1796.73,"endTime":1798.74,"body":"all the things that you've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1796.73,"endTime":1798.74,"body":"talked about, about curriculum"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1798.74,"endTime":1802.37,"body":"or curriculum design, why we do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1798.74,"endTime":1802.37,"body":"it? So think about how we're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1802.37,"endTime":1805.73,"body":"developing children's Danti"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1802.37,"endTime":1805.73,"body":"capability. So I think what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1805.73,"endTime":1810.23,"body":"you're doing is, is really rich"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1805.73,"endTime":1810.23,"body":"and really powerful. And, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1810.23,"endTime":1812.87,"body":"this, this weaving it not not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1810.23,"endTime":1812.87,"body":"weaving it into the curriculum"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1813.05,"endTime":1815.9,"body":"implies it's hidden. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1813.05,"endTime":1815.9,"body":"actually, it's a, it's a clear"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1815.9,"endTime":1819.44,"body":"part of your curriculum and your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1815.9,"endTime":1819.44,"body":"ethos around what you seem to be"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1819.44,"endTime":1822.86,"body":"voting you believe the anti"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1819.44,"endTime":1822.86,"body":"curriculum is foreign about?"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1823.64,"endTime":1827.15,"body":"Yeah, I think it"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1823.64,"endTime":1827.15,"body":"is a clear part, at different"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1827.15,"endTime":1829.61,"body":"stages. And obviously Dave's"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1827.15,"endTime":1829.61,"body":"talks about the the sort of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1829.61,"endTime":1833.15,"body":"repetition you sell through"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1829.61,"endTime":1833.15,"body":"spiral curriculum. And I think,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1833.36,"endTime":1836.99,"body":"personally, I've found that, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1833.36,"endTime":1836.99,"body":"know, I genuinely, genuinely"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1836.99,"endTime":1841.04,"body":"have an interest in learning"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1836.99,"endTime":1841.04,"body":"about different people, and who"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1841.04,"endTime":1845.27,"body":"we can design for and who we can"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1841.04,"endTime":1845.27,"body":"discuss with the children. But"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1845.78,"endTime":1849.59,"body":"it's not all about disabilities,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1845.78,"endTime":1849.59,"body":"for example, you know, of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1849.59,"endTime":1852.86,"body":"course, it's not empathy is a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1849.59,"endTime":1852.86,"body":"much bigger topic. So I think"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1852.86,"endTime":1857.75,"body":"that when we when we look at"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1852.86,"endTime":1857.75,"body":"certain cases, which can be"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1857.75,"endTime":1862.19,"body":"very, very powerful projects, I"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1857.75,"endTime":1862.19,"body":"like to think that if we then"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1862.19,"endTime":1867.53,"body":"took a couple of steps back, and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1862.19,"endTime":1867.53,"body":"we're designing for, well, I'm"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1867.53,"endTime":1872.15,"body":"hoping that the, the intended"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1867.53,"endTime":1872.15,"body":"goal is that pupils are just not"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1872.15,"endTime":1876.14,"body":"always thinking about"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1872.15,"endTime":1876.14,"body":"themselves. You know, I guess"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1876.14,"endTime":1879.65,"body":"that's what I hoped for in the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1876.14,"endTime":1879.65,"body":"long term is that they, they"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1879.65,"endTime":1882.38,"body":"find it a lot easier to think"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1879.65,"endTime":1882.38,"body":"about designing for other"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1882.38,"endTime":1887.3,"body":"people. Now, that's whether they"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1882.38,"endTime":1887.3,"body":"have particular needs or not, or"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1887.3,"endTime":1891.56,"body":"whether some of these needs are"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1887.3,"endTime":1891.56,"body":"quite extreme or not. But I just"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1891.56,"endTime":1893.84,"body":"find that at the moment, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1891.56,"endTime":1893.84,"body":"know, some of the projects that"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1893.84,"endTime":1902.12,"body":"we are doing, we have a lot more"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1893.84,"endTime":1902.12,"body":"access to experienced people, I"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1902.12,"endTime":1907.07,"body":"guess, nowadays. So for example,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1902.12,"endTime":1907.07,"body":"as we said, in, you know, the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1907.07,"endTime":1910.46,"body":"big life fix, and then"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1907.07,"endTime":1910.46,"body":"contacting some of the designers"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1910.46,"endTime":1915.2,"body":"on that show, or following other"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1910.46,"endTime":1915.2,"body":"projects that they do. But you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1915.2,"endTime":1919.76,"body":"can also, you know, putting up"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1915.2,"endTime":1919.76,"body":"that prosthetics projects that I"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1919.76,"endTime":1923.33,"body":"was doing, and then having"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1919.76,"endTime":1923.33,"body":"somebody contact me and say, Can"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1923.33,"endTime":1925.88,"body":"I come in and talk to your"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1923.33,"endTime":1925.88,"body":"children about it because I've"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1925.88,"endTime":1930.02,"body":"run a prosthetics company. And"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1925.88,"endTime":1930.02,"body":"he told his story about his son"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1930.02,"endTime":1933.89,"body":"who was in an accident and lost"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1930.02,"endTime":1933.89,"body":"both of his legs. And they"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1933.89,"endTime":1938.33,"body":"decided to go down the route of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1933.89,"endTime":1938.33,"body":"digitising prosthetics. So that,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1938.63,"endTime":1941.42,"body":"you know, it didn't matter what"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1938.63,"endTime":1941.42,"body":"country you were in, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1941.42,"endTime":1944.96,"body":"these files, much like a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1941.42,"endTime":1944.96,"body":"supposed to enable project would"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1944.96,"endTime":1949.37,"body":"be prosthetic hands. And they"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1944.96,"endTime":1949.37,"body":"are trying to improve things by"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1949.37,"endTime":1952.61,"body":"making these, you know, giving"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1949.37,"endTime":1952.61,"body":"people access to designers no"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1952.61,"endTime":1955.73,"body":"matter where they are. And these"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1952.61,"endTime":1955.73,"body":"files are cloud based, and that,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1955.73,"endTime":1959.6,"body":"you know, they can be over in"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1955.73,"endTime":1959.6,"body":"another country in seconds. And"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1959.66,"endTime":1963.23,"body":"so it's, it's just opening up"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1959.66,"endTime":1963.23,"body":"lots of opportunities. But you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1963.23,"endTime":1966.35,"body":"know, which is why it's"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1963.23,"endTime":1966.35,"body":"interesting, I guess, for design"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1966.35,"endTime":1969.29,"body":"teachers, and for some design"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1966.35,"endTime":1969.29,"body":"students, it doesn't work with"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1969.29,"endTime":1973.13,"body":"all of them, of course it"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1969.29,"endTime":1973.13,"body":"doesn't. But if we can get back"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1973.13,"endTime":1975.86,"body":"to the bare bones, and we're"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1973.13,"endTime":1975.86,"body":"just trying to get them to, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1975.86,"endTime":1978.35,"body":"know, they're quite good at"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1975.86,"endTime":1978.35,"body":"thinking about themselves and"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1978.35,"endTime":1981.68,"body":"what they need and what they"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1978.35,"endTime":1981.68,"body":"want. But what we're trying to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1981.68,"endTime":1984.05,"body":"do is get them to think about"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1981.68,"endTime":1984.05,"body":"what other people need and what"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1984.05,"endTime":1986.57,"body":"they want. And can they gain a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":1984.05,"endTime":1986.57,"body":"greater understanding of that."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1987.56,"endTime":1990.44,"body":"And also think as"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1987.56,"endTime":1990.44,"body":"well, things like the UN"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1990.44,"endTime":1994.58,"body":"sustainability goals as well."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1990.44,"endTime":1994.58,"body":"You know, I mentioned disability"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1994.58,"endTime":1999.56,"body":"earlier, but there's so much out"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1994.58,"endTime":1999.56,"body":"there, that students can be"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1999.56,"endTime":2002.5,"body":"involved in and work. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":1999.56,"endTime":2002.5,"body":"you can just throw literally a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2002.5,"endTime":2007.12,"body":"sustainability goal on the table"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2002.5,"endTime":2007.12,"body":"to generate discussion. And I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2007.12,"endTime":2011.14,"body":"think he's also having time to"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2007.12,"endTime":2011.14,"body":"do that. I do think there's also"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2011.14,"endTime":2014.5,"body":"a little bit of fear, and maybe"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2011.14,"endTime":2014.5,"body":"a little bit of lack of"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2014.5,"endTime":2017.02,"body":"confidence as well, with"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2014.5,"endTime":2017.02,"body":"particularly when the new"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2017.02,"endTime":2020.35,"body":"specification came out. It was"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2017.02,"endTime":2020.35,"body":"like, How on earth am I going to"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2020.35,"endTime":2025.0,"body":"tackle this? Because there had"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2020.35,"endTime":2025.0,"body":"been that sort of, maybe"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2025.0,"endTime":2030.04,"body":"slightly entrenched, or it was"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2025.0,"endTime":2030.04,"body":"easy, the old legacy spec. I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2030.04,"endTime":2033.04,"body":"mean, you know, it was mp3"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2030.04,"endTime":2033.04,"body":"docking stations, and all this"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2033.04,"endTime":2035.53,"body":"sort of stuff, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2033.04,"endTime":2035.53,"body":"James sort of alluded to"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2035.53,"endTime":2041.2,"body":"earlier, but it's just for me,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2035.53,"endTime":2041.2,"body":"in my classroom, I like to see"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2041.2,"endTime":2046.03,"body":"my students thinking, and if it"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2041.2,"endTime":2046.03,"body":"is chat, oh, I say to them, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2046.06,"endTime":2049.57,"body":"they say, Oh, I'm stuck, or this"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2046.06,"endTime":2049.57,"body":"is quite difficult. And I always"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2049.57,"endTime":2053.11,"body":"say good. It's good that you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2049.57,"endTime":2053.11,"body":"thinking and it's good that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2053.11,"endTime":2055.39,"body":"you're challenging yourself. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2053.11,"endTime":2055.39,"body":"it's good that you've got to sit"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2055.39,"endTime":2058.75,"body":"there and scratch your head and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2055.39,"endTime":2058.75,"body":"it isn't all about here's here's"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2058.75,"endTime":2062.38,"body":"something, there is a place for,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2058.75,"endTime":2062.38,"body":"you know, go and make that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2062.38,"endTime":2067.75,"body":"object read this plan, make that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2062.38,"endTime":2067.75,"body":"item. Draw it that way. There is"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2067.78,"endTime":2071.44,"body":"absolutely there is a place for"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2067.78,"endTime":2071.44,"body":"that. But it's also about that."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2072.04,"endTime":2075.4,"body":"This is really tough. You know,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2072.04,"endTime":2075.4,"body":"this is this is really"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2075.4,"endTime":2079.15,"body":"difficult, have really got to"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2075.4,"endTime":2079.15,"body":"think about this. And for me"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2079.15,"endTime":2082.84,"body":"that is trying to get students"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2079.15,"endTime":2082.84,"body":"to be like that. And as I said"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2082.84,"endTime":2086.83,"body":"earlier, to look at things maybe"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2082.84,"endTime":2086.83,"body":"through different eyes. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2086.83,"endTime":2091.18,"body":"I had a student that did a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2086.83,"endTime":2091.18,"body":"project in year 10 around"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2092.17,"endTime":2095.71,"body":"holding a pen somebody was"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2092.17,"endTime":2095.71,"body":"finding it a TA was finding it"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2095.71,"endTime":2098.59,"body":"difficult to hold a pen"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2095.71,"endTime":2098.59,"body":"properly. And now she's"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2098.59,"endTime":2101.86,"body":"designing something else that"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2098.59,"endTime":2101.86,"body":"that happens to be based around"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2101.86,"endTime":2104.98,"body":"the hand, but it's a completely"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2101.86,"endTime":2104.98,"body":"different context and a"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2104.98,"endTime":2108.73,"body":"completely different need. But"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2104.98,"endTime":2108.73,"body":"she's still using those skills"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2108.73,"endTime":2113.17,"body":"of looking at it, and trying to"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2108.73,"endTime":2113.17,"body":"understand it, and going back to"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2113.35,"endTime":2117.43,"body":"the person that's potentially"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2113.35,"endTime":2117.43,"body":"going to make use of it. And I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2117.43,"endTime":2121.39,"body":"know that when she goes on to do"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2117.43,"endTime":2121.39,"body":"a level that she's just going to"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2121.39,"endTime":2125.32,"body":"fly, because she's got this,"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2121.39,"endTime":2125.32,"body":"she's got this ability to look"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2125.32,"endTime":2128.35,"body":"at things beyond the obvious."},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2128.71,"endTime":2131.23,"body":"Yeah. And if she,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2128.71,"endTime":2131.23,"body":"if she goes beyond, you know, if"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2131.23,"endTime":2135.25,"body":"she, if she studies design later"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2131.23,"endTime":2135.25,"body":"on, and becomes a designer or"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2135.25,"endTime":2138.76,"body":"manufacturer of the, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2135.25,"endTime":2138.76,"body":"wide variety of options that"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2138.76,"endTime":2142.27,"body":"she'll have, she's not going to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2138.76,"endTime":2142.27,"body":"walk into a studio and somebody"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2142.27,"endTime":2145.18,"body":"is going to tell her, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2142.27,"endTime":2145.18,"body":"what she needs to make, you"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2145.18,"endTime":2148.48,"body":"know, she has to go in as a"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2145.18,"endTime":2148.48,"body":"problem solver. So, you know,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2148.48,"endTime":2150.85,"body":"yes, we need to learn the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2148.48,"endTime":2150.85,"body":"initial skills, which is why"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2150.85,"endTime":2155.38,"body":"there is a place for more"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2150.85,"endTime":2155.38,"body":"instructional work, but to get"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2155.38,"endTime":2158.38,"body":"them to be a bit more open"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2155.38,"endTime":2158.38,"body":"minded, and you know, be able to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2158.38,"endTime":2161.5,"body":"spot problems as well as attempt"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2158.38,"endTime":2161.5,"body":"to solve them. You know, that's"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2161.5,"endTime":2162.46,"body":"just as important."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2162.7,"endTime":2164.38,"body":"It's been really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2162.7,"endTime":2164.38,"body":"great to listen to you both."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2164.44,"endTime":2167.35,"body":"And, you know, I'm kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2164.44,"endTime":2167.35,"body":"cutting this short, but I know"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2167.35,"endTime":2171.1,"body":"that, you know, there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2167.35,"endTime":2171.1,"body":"so much more to say. And I know"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2171.1,"endTime":2173.44,"body":"people listening will have lots"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2171.1,"endTime":2173.44,"body":"of different ways that they're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2173.44,"endTime":2176.83,"body":"doing similar things to you, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2173.44,"endTime":2176.83,"body":"maybe not articulating it in the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2176.83,"endTime":2179.11,"body":"way that you are around empathy."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2176.83,"endTime":2179.11,"body":"So it's been really good to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2179.11,"endTime":2182.14,"body":"catch up with you both today."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2179.11,"endTime":2182.14,"body":"And I'm hoping you're going to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2182.14,"endTime":2184.51,"body":"come back and talk about some of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2182.14,"endTime":2184.51,"body":"the things that you're doing, as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2184.51,"endTime":2187.57,"body":"well and get some of the people"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2184.51,"endTime":2187.57,"body":"involved in talking about their"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2187.57,"endTime":2191.89,"body":"practice in DBT. So, before we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2187.57,"endTime":2191.89,"body":"finish, I'm going to ask both of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2191.89,"endTime":2194.23,"body":"you to just tell people where"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2191.89,"endTime":2194.23,"body":"they can find you if they want"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2194.23,"endTime":2197.65,"body":"to come in looking for you. Not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2194.23,"endTime":2197.65,"body":"in a stalkerish way, in general,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2198.01,"endTime":2200.29,"body":"the anti way, James, you first."},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2201.04,"endTime":2203.92,"body":"Yeah, I do most of"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2201.04,"endTime":2203.92,"body":"my collaborative work through"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2204.13,"endTime":2209.92,"body":"Jambo DMT Facebook group, I am"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2204.13,"endTime":2209.92,"body":"on other social media under the"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2209.92,"endTime":2213.19,"body":"same name. But I would say that,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2209.92,"endTime":2213.19,"body":"you know, if you're wanting to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2213.19,"endTime":2216.34,"body":"actually engage in discussions,"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2213.19,"endTime":2216.34,"body":"then then that's the place to"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2216.34,"endTime":2220.99,"body":"get me. If that leads to further"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2216.34,"endTime":2220.99,"body":"work, where you require my email"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2220.99,"endTime":2224.29,"body":"address, or so on. I'm always"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2220.99,"endTime":2224.29,"body":"happy to share that one as well."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2224.65,"endTime":2226.69,"body":"Brilliant. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2224.65,"endTime":2226.69,"body":"thank you, Dave."},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2227.5,"endTime":2232.57,"body":"Likewise, top"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2227.5,"endTime":2232.57,"body":"Brome, D and T on Facebook. So I"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2232.57,"endTime":2235.75,"body":"to sort of have my own sort of"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2232.57,"endTime":2235.75,"body":"slightly smaller group than"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2235.75,"endTime":2240.94,"body":"James's, but it is there and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2235.75,"endTime":2240.94,"body":"also at top Rome on Twitter, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Bausor","startTime":2240.94,"endTime":2243.22,"body":"usual social media platforms."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2243.73,"endTime":2245.44,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2243.73,"endTime":2245.44,"body":"Thanks so much for your time,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2245.44,"endTime":2248.29,"body":"both of you. I know we're in a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2245.44,"endTime":2248.29,"body":"bit of a strange time different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2248.29,"endTime":2251.5,"body":"days. In the same time, space as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2248.29,"endTime":2251.5,"body":"me we're at half past nine in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2251.5,"endTime":2253.72,"body":"the morning. And James, what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2251.5,"endTime":2253.72,"body":"time is it with you in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2253.72,"endTime":2254.29,"body":"Singapore?"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2255.97,"endTime":2259.15,"body":"Just gone half"},{"speaker":"James Bleach","startTime":2255.97,"endTime":2259.15,"body":"past five. Late afternoon."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2259.93,"endTime":2262.42,"body":"Right. Okay. Well,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2259.93,"endTime":2262.42,"body":"it's good to talk to you both"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2262.45,"endTime":2265.63,"body":"and hopefully we'll do it again"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2262.45,"endTime":2265.63,"body":"soon. Okay, thank you problem."}]}