{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.05,"body":"today's podcast, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.05,"body":"am talking to Janine Pavlis, who"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":4.05,"endTime":7.56,"body":"is at St. Mary's University, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":4.05,"endTime":7.56,"body":"sure you're going to tell him"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":7.56,"endTime":10.41,"body":"what the what the correct name"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":7.56,"endTime":10.41,"body":"of the university is, as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":10.41,"endTime":13.8,"body":"involved in primary Ed, teacher"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":10.41,"endTime":13.8,"body":"training for design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":13.8,"endTime":16.83,"body":"technology. We've had some"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":13.8,"endTime":16.83,"body":"conversations on teams and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":16.83,"endTime":20.04,"body":"whatever before now. So it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":16.83,"endTime":20.04,"body":"just nice to get on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":20.04,"endTime":22.32,"body":"So Janine, and I'm gonna hand"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":20.04,"endTime":22.32,"body":"over to you. And you can say a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":22.32,"endTime":25.05,"body":"little bit about who you are,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":22.32,"endTime":25.05,"body":"where you are and what you do."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":26.79,"endTime":30.27,"body":"Thank you so"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":26.79,"endTime":30.27,"body":"much. Yeah, I'm at St. Mary's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":30.27,"endTime":33.51,"body":"University is St. Mary's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":30.27,"endTime":33.51,"body":"University. And it seemed"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":33.51,"endTime":40.32,"body":"Twickenham London. And I've been"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":33.51,"endTime":40.32,"body":"there two years. So in"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":40.32,"endTime":45.24,"body":"September, I'll be going into my"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":40.32,"endTime":45.24,"body":"third, third year there. And"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":45.75,"endTime":50.34,"body":"yeah, I teach I'm most pathways"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":45.75,"endTime":50.34,"body":"for primary Ed's."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":52.14,"endTime":53.79,"body":"So those pathways"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":53.82,"endTime":56.28,"body":"Well, we have, we"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":53.82,"endTime":56.28,"body":"have undergraduate there, we"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":56.28,"endTime":60.6,"body":"have postgraduate, we have work"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":56.28,"endTime":60.6,"body":"base route. We have a foundation"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":60.6,"endTime":65.16,"body":"degree, which then they lead on"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":60.6,"endTime":65.16,"body":"tosomething with qualified"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":65.16,"endTime":70.08,"body":"teacher status. So my"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":65.16,"endTime":70.08,"body":"predominantly it's undergraduate"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":70.08,"endTime":75.3,"body":"and postgraduate that I, I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":70.08,"endTime":75.3,"body":"lecture in, and I absolutely"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":75.3,"endTime":80.55,"body":"love it. It's wonderful. And I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":75.3,"endTime":80.55,"body":"love it more so as well, because"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":80.55,"endTime":84.81,"body":"I actually did my undergraduate"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":80.55,"endTime":84.81,"body":"there. I did my BA primary"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":84.81,"endTime":89.49,"body":"education with QTS at St. Mary's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":84.81,"endTime":89.49,"body":"13 years ago."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":90.58,"endTime":96.58,"body":"So it's, it's like going home"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":90.58,"endTime":96.58,"body":"almost. And some of the people"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":96.61,"endTime":101.32,"body":"who I work with my colleagues"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":96.61,"endTime":101.32,"body":"there, they lectured me when I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":101.32,"endTime":105.52,"body":"was there. So it's just, it's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":101.32,"endTime":105.52,"body":"lovely. It's a lovely"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":105.52,"endTime":109.84,"body":"environment to be in. And"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":105.52,"endTime":109.84,"body":"actually, I just, I love I love"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":109.84,"endTime":115.06,"body":"the fact that it's quite a small"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":109.84,"endTime":115.06,"body":"campus as well. That that's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":115.06,"endTime":117.73,"body":"lovely. You know, you can get"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":115.06,"endTime":117.73,"body":"from one side of the campus to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":117.73,"endTime":121.36,"body":"the other in about 15 minutes."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":117.73,"endTime":121.36,"body":"Lovely, lovely grounds."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":123.01,"endTime":125.71,"body":"Yeah, I, yeah, go"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":126.55,"endTime":128.77,"body":"to St. Mary's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":126.55,"endTime":128.77,"body":"specialise in is it? Is it maybe"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":128.77,"endTime":129.85,"body":"Teacher Education? Or was it?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":129.85,"endTime":132.79,"body":"Yeah, no, it's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":129.85,"endTime":132.79,"body":"mainly teacher education. But we"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":132.79,"endTime":134.44,"body":"do a lot of sport there as well."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":135.64,"endTime":139.69,"body":"We, of course, had Mo farah"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":135.64,"endTime":139.69,"body":"there during his degree, Joe"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":139.69,"endTime":144.64,"body":"wickes. So a few famous people"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":139.69,"endTime":144.64,"body":"have come from St. Mary's to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":144.64,"endTime":149.62,"body":"have done sports science"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":144.64,"endTime":149.62,"body":"physiotherapy or something like"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":149.62,"endTime":153.52,"body":"that. And we have grounds to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":149.62,"endTime":153.52,"body":"facilitate that as well. We've"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":153.52,"endTime":158.14,"body":"got the Mo Farah racetrack."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":153.52,"endTime":158.14,"body":"Nice, beautiful sports"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":158.14,"endTime":161.02,"body":"facilities. So yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":158.14,"endTime":161.02,"body":"that's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":162.18,"endTime":166.77,"body":"a huge area to St. Mary's as"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":162.18,"endTime":166.77,"body":"well. We also do a lot on"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":166.77,"endTime":174.15,"body":"theology. Yeah, yeah. That the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":166.77,"endTime":174.15,"body":"teaching is the main main"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":175.86,"endTime":179.31,"body":"area. I don't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":175.86,"endTime":179.31,"body":"think those were unusual mixes"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":179.4,"endTime":184.59,"body":"in teacher ed, PE and theology."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":179.4,"endTime":184.59,"body":"Yeah, so yeah. So you've been"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":184.59,"endTime":189.12,"body":"there two years coming up to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":184.59,"endTime":189.12,"body":"third year? And do you remember"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":189.12,"endTime":191.22,"body":"that you lead on the design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":189.12,"endTime":191.22,"body":"technology?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":191.73,"endTime":195.6,"body":"I do? Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":191.73,"endTime":195.6,"body":"need on design technology. It's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":195.6,"endTime":198.3,"body":"a bit of a default, really,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":195.6,"endTime":198.3,"body":"because there is only me. So"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":198.3,"endTime":203.82,"body":"I've given my colleagues are"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":198.3,"endTime":203.82,"body":"fine with I mean, we there's a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":203.82,"endTime":208.53,"body":"few of us that are on our own"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":203.82,"endTime":208.53,"body":"doing a subject and, and so"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":208.53,"endTime":217.26,"body":"therefore, we lead in it. And it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":208.53,"endTime":217.26,"body":"was something that I had, I had"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":217.26,"endTime":221.94,"body":"really enjoyed doing when I was"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":217.26,"endTime":221.94,"body":"there, designing technology,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":222.06,"endTime":230.19,"body":"because St. Mary's offered the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":222.06,"endTime":230.19,"body":"opportunity to do do bits of all"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":230.19,"endTime":233.61,"body":"the foundation subjects in"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":230.19,"endTime":233.61,"body":"primary education across your"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":233.61,"endTime":239.76,"body":"first year of the BA you do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":233.61,"endTime":239.76,"body":"actually five lectures, two"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":239.76,"endTime":244.59,"body":"hours for each, which is quite a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":239.76,"endTime":244.59,"body":"quite a lot of time spent to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":244.59,"endTime":247.41,"body":"foundation subjects. And then"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":244.59,"endTime":247.41,"body":"and then what they do is they"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":247.41,"endTime":250.71,"body":"offer you the opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":247.41,"endTime":250.71,"body":"take on what we call elective"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":250.71,"endTime":256.95,"body":"subjects into year two BA and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":250.71,"endTime":256.95,"body":"when I was when I was there, DMT"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":256.95,"endTime":262.23,"body":"was one of those subjects that I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":256.95,"endTime":262.23,"body":"decided that I wanted to take on"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":262.23,"endTime":265.47,"body":"board and that was mainly"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":262.23,"endTime":265.47,"body":"because the GCSE and A level. I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":265.47,"endTime":272.52,"body":"absolutely loved it. And so I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":265.47,"endTime":272.52,"body":"thought okay, I'll I'll do this"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":272.52,"endTime":276.72,"body":"and I'm sure I'll love it even"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":272.52,"endTime":276.72,"body":"more because I'm learning how to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":276.72,"endTime":281.4,"body":"teach children how to do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":276.72,"endTime":281.4,"body":"something that I really love at"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":281.4,"endTime":285.54,"body":"school. Yeah, so I did that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":281.4,"endTime":285.54,"body":"along with some other subjects"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":285.6,"endTime":289.5,"body":"as well. And then in year three,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":285.6,"endTime":289.5,"body":"we offer them the opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":289.5,"endTime":293.67,"body":"pick one of those four elective"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":289.5,"endTime":293.67,"body":"subjects and really specialise"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":293.67,"endTime":296.97,"body":"in that subject. Bearing in mind"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":293.67,"endTime":296.97,"body":"when you go into primary"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":296.97,"endTime":300.84,"body":"education. You don't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":296.97,"endTime":300.84,"body":"specialise. within a subject, we"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":300.84,"endTime":305.67,"body":"teach all areas of the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":300.84,"endTime":305.67,"body":"curriculum. But I, of course, I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":305.67,"endTime":310.38,"body":"chose d and t. And I it was it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":305.67,"endTime":310.38,"body":"was lovely it was it was"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":310.38,"endTime":313.86,"body":"wonderful. And the person that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":310.38,"endTime":313.86,"body":"taught me at St. Mary's is"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":313.86,"endTime":319.98,"body":"actually who I then took over"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":313.86,"endTime":319.98,"body":"their job when I when I went"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":319.98,"endTime":323.37,"body":"there, so they retired and I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":319.98,"endTime":323.37,"body":"came on board. So it's actually"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":323.37,"endTime":327.33,"body":"a really lovely thing is a very"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":323.37,"endTime":327.33,"body":"good, it's nice transition."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":327.72,"endTime":331.92,"body":"Yeah. She said, You know, I know"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":327.72,"endTime":331.92,"body":"I'm leaving it in good hands."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":331.92,"endTime":336.27,"body":"And that was really lovely. But"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":331.92,"endTime":336.27,"body":"interestingly, I went, so I went"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":336.27,"endTime":339.39,"body":"into primary education, and I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":336.27,"endTime":339.39,"body":"didn't I didn't coordinate in"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":339.39,"endTime":343.77,"body":"designing technology at all."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":339.39,"endTime":343.77,"body":"Right. Okay. And I think did you"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":343.77,"endTime":347.28,"body":"do, I actually coordinated I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":343.77,"endTime":347.28,"body":"actually coordinated in English."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":349.44,"endTime":353.94,"body":"For for most of the years that I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":349.44,"endTime":353.94,"body":"was a primary teacher, all the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":353.94,"endTime":360.12,"body":"way until I decided to go into"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":353.94,"endTime":360.12,"body":"higher education. But I think"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":360.12,"endTime":363.54,"body":"there's a number of reasons why,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":360.12,"endTime":363.54,"body":"and I think a lot of primary"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":363.54,"endTime":367.47,"body":"school teachers may agree with"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":363.54,"endTime":367.47,"body":"me here. It's, it's something"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":367.47,"endTime":373.17,"body":"that a lot of a lot of the time,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":367.47,"endTime":373.17,"body":"teachers will who who wants to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":373.17,"endTime":378.0,"body":"progress, and in some certain"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":373.17,"endTime":378.0,"body":"situations will want to gain a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":378.0,"endTime":384.69,"body":"little bit more money, they will"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":378.0,"endTime":384.69,"body":"choose the core subjects to, to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":384.69,"endTime":389.43,"body":"in order to reap some benefits"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":384.69,"endTime":389.43,"body":"from that, because if I had"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":389.43,"endTime":393.33,"body":"chosen to NT, I potentially"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":389.43,"endTime":393.33,"body":"wouldn't have been able to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":393.33,"endTime":396.24,"body":"progress as quickly as I wanted"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":393.33,"endTime":396.24,"body":"to. But to show that you're"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":396.24,"endTime":401.97,"body":"making homeschool impact. They"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":396.24,"endTime":401.97,"body":"want to see English and Math"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":402.21,"endTime":405.0,"body":"being done. So you know, I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":402.21,"endTime":405.0,"body":"immediately went to English and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":405.0,"endTime":407.82,"body":"I love English. So that was that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":405.0,"endTime":407.82,"body":"was fine. You know, I don't"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":407.82,"endTime":411.03,"body":"mind. And I thought I was quite"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":407.82,"endTime":411.03,"body":"good at it. But it was"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":411.03,"endTime":418.23,"body":"interesting that I didn't lead"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":411.03,"endTime":418.23,"body":"in it. And yet now I kind of I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":418.23,"endTime":423.12,"body":"teach it on a day to day basis"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":418.23,"endTime":423.12,"body":"as well how to teach it. And"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":423.12,"endTime":427.05,"body":"some of my electives. Students"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":423.12,"endTime":427.05,"body":"will ask questions about how do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":427.05,"endTime":430.62,"body":"you coordinate this subject?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":427.05,"endTime":430.62,"body":"It's an interesting one, because"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":430.62,"endTime":434.43,"body":"obviously, I did it. But I have"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":430.62,"endTime":434.43,"body":"a lot of passion for the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":434.43,"endTime":438.12,"body":"subject. So I feel like I can"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":434.43,"endTime":438.12,"body":"really lead with that."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":439.26,"endTime":440.01,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":441.06,"endTime":442.68,"body":"And you probably"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":441.06,"endTime":442.68,"body":"work with through the schools"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":442.68,"endTime":444.54,"body":"you've worked with, you work"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":442.68,"endTime":444.54,"body":"with quite a lot of coordinators"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":444.54,"endTime":447.42,"body":"for science and technology. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":444.54,"endTime":447.42,"body":"you you have a network of people"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":447.66,"endTime":449.79,"body":"to call out, it's not always"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":447.66,"endTime":449.79,"body":"that you've had to have done it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":449.79,"endTime":452.58,"body":"to be able to draw on that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":449.79,"endTime":452.58,"body":"expertise, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":452.85,"endTime":455.34,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":452.85,"endTime":455.34,"body":"there's, there's opportunities"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":455.34,"endTime":458.94,"body":"to kind of network still, with"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":455.34,"endTime":458.94,"body":"with the people that are in"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":458.94,"endTime":463.44,"body":"schools now doing wonderful"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":458.94,"endTime":463.44,"body":"design or technology in primary"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":463.44,"endTime":469.89,"body":"schools are some great good"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":463.44,"endTime":469.89,"body":"practice being done in primary"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":469.89,"endTime":475.29,"body":"schools. It's nice to be on this"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":469.89,"endTime":475.29,"body":"side, because I get to see when"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":475.29,"endTime":479.52,"body":"I go into schools, and I do what"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":475.29,"endTime":479.52,"body":"we call, like a link tutor,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":481.29,"endTime":484.59,"body":"situation where we send our"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":481.29,"endTime":484.59,"body":"students out on to practice and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":484.77,"endTime":489.69,"body":"I get to go in and observe them,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":484.77,"endTime":489.69,"body":"I get to meet. I'm seeing the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":489.69,"endTime":491.79,"body":"children doing design"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":489.69,"endTime":491.79,"body":"technology. And I actually got"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":491.79,"endTime":495.0,"body":"to observe a DMT lesson"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":491.79,"endTime":495.0,"body":"recently, which was lovely,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":495.33,"endTime":498.42,"body":"because actually, that's what I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":495.33,"endTime":498.42,"body":"what I want to go and see I want"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":498.42,"endTime":503.01,"body":"to see it actually in action."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":498.42,"endTime":503.01,"body":"Children in action doing this"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":503.4,"endTime":508.65,"body":"subjects that I'm constantly"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":503.4,"endTime":508.65,"body":"talking about. And that was one"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":508.65,"endTime":511.14,"body":"of my worries about coming into"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":508.65,"endTime":511.14,"body":"higher education is that I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":511.14,"endTime":514.71,"body":"wouldn't get to see. You know,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":511.14,"endTime":514.71,"body":"if I really loved it, then why"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":514.71,"endTime":517.98,"body":"didn't I just stay as a primary"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":514.71,"endTime":517.98,"body":"school teacher and continue in"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":517.98,"endTime":521.1,"body":"year six, which is what I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":517.98,"endTime":521.1,"body":"predominantly did, continuing"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":521.1,"endTime":528.42,"body":"your six and continue to teach D"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":521.1,"endTime":528.42,"body":"and T well. I still question,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":528.69,"endTime":533.43,"body":"you know, the move like, why did"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":528.69,"endTime":533.43,"body":"i Why did I do that? If that's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":533.43,"endTime":536.73,"body":"really what I want to go and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":533.43,"endTime":536.73,"body":"see. But ultimately, I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":536.73,"endTime":543.18,"body":"absolutely love teaching trainee"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":536.73,"endTime":543.18,"body":"teachers. When I had when I was"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":543.18,"endTime":548.25,"body":"a class bass mentor. When I was"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":543.18,"endTime":548.25,"body":"told I'd have a student for"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":548.55,"endTime":553.35,"body":"however long. I was really"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":548.55,"endTime":553.35,"body":"excited. And some teachers don't"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":553.35,"endTime":557.55,"body":"get that excitement. Some ask"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":553.35,"endTime":557.55,"body":"not to have a student. And that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":557.55,"endTime":560.46,"body":"was me kind of first on the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":557.55,"endTime":560.46,"body":"list, like make sure I have a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":560.46,"endTime":563.64,"body":"student not knowing who's going"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":560.46,"endTime":563.64,"body":"to walk through the door. But I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":563.64,"endTime":567.9,"body":"was really excited. And then"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":563.64,"endTime":567.9,"body":"something just kind of clicked"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":568.17,"endTime":573.81,"body":"that this could be this could be"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":568.17,"endTime":573.81,"body":"a job. And because I had a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":573.81,"endTime":577.59,"body":"master's, and I'd considered I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":573.81,"endTime":577.59,"body":"was always looking for like the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":577.59,"endTime":581.22,"body":"next thing I could research. And"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":577.59,"endTime":581.22,"body":"I was always thinking, Should I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":581.22,"endTime":585.3,"body":"do my NVQ SL, could I go into"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":581.22,"endTime":585.3,"body":"doing a little bit more for the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":585.3,"endTime":587.94,"body":"local authority in terms of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":585.3,"endTime":587.94,"body":"research, but then I thought"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":587.94,"endTime":591.48,"body":"well hang on a minute. Why not"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":587.94,"endTime":591.48,"body":"take it a little bit further and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":592.38,"endTime":598.38,"body":"start the ED doc, the doctoral"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":592.38,"endTime":598.38,"body":"studies. I hear I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":599.55,"endTime":602.01,"body":"hear you out Are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":599.55,"endTime":602.01,"body":"you on so you've got a master's."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":602.01,"endTime":605.4,"body":"So I'm gonna go to backtrack a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":602.01,"endTime":605.4,"body":"little bit, because you, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":605.4,"endTime":608.7,"body":"thought was really interesting"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":605.4,"endTime":608.7,"body":"observation that I suppose"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":608.7,"endTime":612.87,"body":"because of the performance"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":608.7,"endTime":612.87,"body":"measures in primary school. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":612.87,"endTime":615.3,"body":"that thing that you've commented"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":612.87,"endTime":615.3,"body":"on that, you know, if you if you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":615.3,"endTime":618.27,"body":"want to think about career"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":615.3,"endTime":618.27,"body":"progression, you've got to show"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":618.3,"endTime":622.47,"body":"show leadership across a whole"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":618.3,"endTime":622.47,"body":"school. Because of the status of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":622.47,"endTime":626.85,"body":"subjects like design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":622.47,"endTime":626.85,"body":"technology, music to an extent"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":626.88,"endTime":632.64,"body":"art and design, those are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":626.88,"endTime":632.64,"body":"subjects, they get varying"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":632.64,"endTime":635.97,"body":"amounts of time, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":632.64,"endTime":635.97,"body":"I'm going to come back and pick"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":635.97,"endTime":638.13,"body":"up on that as well about whether"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":635.97,"endTime":638.13,"body":"they whether there's more time"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":638.13,"endTime":641.64,"body":"being given to primary now for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":638.13,"endTime":641.64,"body":"DNC than you think. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":641.64,"endTime":645.06,"body":"that you have to kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":641.64,"endTime":645.06,"body":"sacrifice a bit and take another"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":645.06,"endTime":648.54,"body":"part to to, to kind of look at"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":645.06,"endTime":648.54,"body":"that promotion, and then that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":648.54,"endTime":652.71,"body":"has as a whole knock on effect"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":648.54,"endTime":652.71,"body":"about the status of the subject."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":652.74,"endTime":656.22,"body":"And then you don't get people in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":652.74,"endTime":656.22,"body":"leadership who understand design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":656.22,"endTime":659.73,"body":"and technology because they've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":656.22,"endTime":659.73,"body":"not done it. Or because, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":659.73,"endTime":663.12,"body":"know, they've specialised that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":659.73,"endTime":663.12,"body":"kind of as a huge, all of those"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":663.12,"endTime":668.88,"body":"little patterns have a huge"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":663.12,"endTime":668.88,"body":"impact on the status, the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":668.88,"endTime":673.32,"body":"profile the time, the quality of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":668.88,"endTime":673.32,"body":"teaching of subjects, like"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":673.32,"endTime":674.28,"body":"design and technology don't."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":675.33,"endTime":678.99,"body":"I mean, you said"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":675.33,"endTime":678.99,"body":"so many things, but it was it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":678.99,"endTime":683.94,"body":"was so good. It was really so"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":678.99,"endTime":683.94,"body":"where do I start? Because yeah,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":683.94,"endTime":687.66,"body":"I mean, I do think the profile"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":683.94,"endTime":687.66,"body":"foundation subjects has has"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":687.96,"endTime":691.47,"body":"developed, it's definitely"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":687.96,"endTime":691.47,"body":"looked like it was"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":692.64,"endTime":695.37,"body":"TNT a feel kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":692.64,"endTime":695.37,"body":"dainty a foundation subjects."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":695.4,"endTime":701.25,"body":"Yeah. And it's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":695.4,"endTime":701.25,"body":"considered a foundation subject"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":701.28,"endTime":706.89,"body":"when Ofsted are looking at"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":701.28,"endTime":706.89,"body":"school, and primary education."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":707.22,"endTime":710.31,"body":"And we know that Ofsted are"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":707.22,"endTime":710.31,"body":"going to come in and ask to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":710.31,"endTime":716.13,"body":"speak to three subject areas"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":710.31,"endTime":716.13,"body":"about that, that what they're"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":716.13,"endTime":719.22,"body":"doing, what they're coordinating"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":716.13,"endTime":719.22,"body":"in what's going on. And we know"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":719.22,"endTime":722.88,"body":"that design technology could be"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":719.22,"endTime":722.88,"body":"could be picked, it might be"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":722.88,"endTime":728.16,"body":"picked. We know for a fact that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":722.88,"endTime":728.16,"body":"English and math will be or"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":728.16,"endTime":731.82,"body":"reading, should I say or"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":728.16,"endTime":731.82,"body":"phonics. We don't know"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":731.82,"endTime":735.27,"body":"necessarily about DMT. But we"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":731.82,"endTime":735.27,"body":"certainly know more than we did"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":735.27,"endTime":739.35,"body":"before, which was it didn't get"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":735.27,"endTime":739.35,"body":"looking before, along with other"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":739.35,"endTime":743.25,"body":"subjects. Now I add is not just"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":739.35,"endTime":743.25,"body":"technology. But we know now that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":743.25,"endTime":748.41,"body":"we've all got to be kind of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":743.25,"endTime":748.41,"body":"ready, we've got to be ready to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":748.41,"endTime":752.73,"body":"talk about the impact of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":748.41,"endTime":752.73,"body":"subjects having on children's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":752.73,"endTime":756.06,"body":"education. And so that so it has"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":752.73,"endTime":756.06,"body":"developed, it's definitely"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":756.06,"endTime":761.46,"body":"something that I think teachers"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":756.06,"endTime":761.46,"body":"now realise that actually, being"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":761.46,"endTime":763.86,"body":"a design and technology"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":761.46,"endTime":763.86,"body":"coordinator or being a music"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":763.86,"endTime":769.68,"body":"coordinator is actually far"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":763.86,"endTime":769.68,"body":"harder than it was. It's got far"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":769.68,"endTime":774.99,"body":"more credit. In fact, having to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":769.68,"endTime":774.99,"body":"do a deep dive into a subject,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":774.99,"endTime":778.17,"body":"whether it's, you know, deep"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":774.99,"endTime":778.17,"body":"dive is what we call it, we're"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":778.17,"endTime":781.83,"body":"doing a deep dive into the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":778.17,"endTime":781.83,"body":"subject, it still actually"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":781.83,"endTime":787.95,"body":"you're doing a whole its whole"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":781.83,"endTime":787.95,"body":"school impact is obviously what"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":787.95,"endTime":791.04,"body":"I said before about it being"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":787.95,"endTime":791.04,"body":"English and maths as a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":791.04,"endTime":793.59,"body":"predominant kind of coordinator"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":791.04,"endTime":793.59,"body":"subject that you would take on."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":794.25,"endTime":798.69,"body":"But that was then this is now."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":794.25,"endTime":798.69,"body":"And if I was to go back into"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":798.69,"endTime":802.89,"body":"school, I'd welcome design and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":798.69,"endTime":802.89,"body":"technology, because actually, I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":802.89,"endTime":811.59,"body":"think this is something that is"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":802.89,"endTime":811.59,"body":"really important. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":811.62,"endTime":816.84,"body":"do you think so?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":811.62,"endTime":816.84,"body":"Is it that the core subjects are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":816.84,"endTime":820.23,"body":"what people look for, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":816.84,"endTime":820.23,"body":"when they're employing senior"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":820.23,"endTime":822.87,"body":"leaders in primary, because"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":820.23,"endTime":822.87,"body":"those are the ones that are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":822.87,"endTime":825.63,"body":"measured, whereas subjects like"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":822.87,"endTime":825.63,"body":"design and technology, they're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":825.63,"endTime":828.48,"body":"not necessarily measured and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":825.63,"endTime":828.48,"body":"reported on? They might well be"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":828.75,"endTime":833.01,"body":"internally. But they're not, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":828.75,"endTime":833.01,"body":"know, they're not tested?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":833.01,"endTime":836.4,"body":"They're not they're not reported"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":833.01,"endTime":836.4,"body":"on that externally. So it's very"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":836.4,"endTime":840.27,"body":"difficult to how do you make a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":836.4,"endTime":840.27,"body":"judgement about the impact that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":840.27,"endTime":842.49,"body":"design or technology is having?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":840.27,"endTime":842.49,"body":"If we don't, you know, how do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":842.49,"endTime":846.15,"body":"we? How do we assess its impact"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":842.49,"endTime":846.15,"body":"on the children? Because what we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":846.18,"endTime":850.35,"body":"what tends to be valued are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":846.18,"endTime":850.35,"body":"those external measures, which I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":850.35,"endTime":852.72,"body":"can, I can understand why we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":850.35,"endTime":852.72,"body":"have external measures for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":852.72,"endTime":855.3,"body":"parents and other people to make"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":852.72,"endTime":855.3,"body":"judgments about where they want"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":855.3,"endTime":861.63,"body":"their children to go. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":855.3,"endTime":861.63,"body":"it's kind of and so therefore,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":861.63,"endTime":864.48,"body":"the measure around subjects like"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":861.63,"endTime":864.48,"body":"design and technology and music"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":864.57,"endTime":868.89,"body":"become the output that they want"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":864.57,"endTime":868.89,"body":"the children produce and what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":868.89,"endTime":875.01,"body":"can be seen, or heard or touched"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":868.89,"endTime":875.01,"body":"or tasted, rather than very"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":875.01,"endTime":877.08,"body":"crudely in English and maths."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":875.01,"endTime":877.08,"body":"It's a number."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":877.469,"endTime":879.329,"body":"It's number."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":877.469,"endTime":879.329,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. And we're"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":879.329,"endTime":883.019,"body":"actually lessening that number"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":879.329,"endTime":883.019,"body":"due because of the Key Stage One"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":883.019,"endTime":887.339,"body":"a completely getting rid of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":883.019,"endTime":887.339,"body":"that. I mean, they got rid of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":887.339,"endTime":893.009,"body":"them previously anyway. And it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":887.339,"endTime":893.009,"body":"was kind of just what the what"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":893.009,"endTime":895.499,"body":"the schools are doing in terms"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":893.009,"endTime":895.499,"body":"of just internal assignments,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":895.739,"endTime":899.669,"body":"assessments, which were their"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":895.739,"endTime":899.669,"body":"version of SATs or just using"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":899.669,"endTime":902.789,"body":"tests. hated. But now we don't"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":899.669,"endTime":902.789,"body":"need to, we don't need to do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":902.789,"endTime":906.539,"body":"that at all. They come in, I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":902.789,"endTime":906.539,"body":"think it was, I mean, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":906.539,"endTime":909.419,"body":"only a specialist here. So I do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":906.539,"endTime":909.419,"body":"apologise. But I think, you"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":909.419,"endTime":913.049,"body":"know, the children come in, they"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":909.419,"endTime":913.049,"body":"test them within the first six"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":913.049,"endTime":917.639,"body":"months of them coming into"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":913.049,"endTime":917.639,"body":"reception. And then they don't"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":917.639,"endTime":920.249,"body":"get to see again until the end"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":917.639,"endTime":920.249,"body":"of key stage two. That's it. So"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":920.249,"endTime":923.699,"body":"you've got that data to go by."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":920.249,"endTime":923.699,"body":"So all the way from reception"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":923.699,"endTime":928.979,"body":"to? And obviously, that's a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":923.699,"endTime":928.979,"body":"reading, writing math. That's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":928.979,"endTime":931.589,"body":"it? Because that's the only kind"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":928.979,"endTime":931.589,"body":"of data where and you're"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":931.589,"endTime":935.069,"body":"absolutely right, you do not"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":931.589,"endTime":935.069,"body":"need to be assessment, anything"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":935.069,"endTime":942.419,"body":"else, in terms of data that the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":935.069,"endTime":942.419,"body":"school has looming over them,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":942.839,"endTime":945.899,"body":"that data pressure from any"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":942.839,"endTime":945.899,"body":"other subject doesn't need to be"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":945.899,"endTime":949.439,"body":"there. And schools will do their"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":945.899,"endTime":949.439,"body":"own assessment procedure for all"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":949.439,"endTime":951.689,"body":"of these subjects. But it's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":949.439,"endTime":951.689,"body":"interesting, because I do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":951.689,"endTime":956.249,"body":"wonder, what are you assessing?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":951.689,"endTime":956.249,"body":"I also teach us what what are"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":956.249,"endTime":959.309,"body":"your what's your assessment"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":956.249,"endTime":959.309,"body":"criteria for design and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":959.309,"endTime":962.429,"body":"technology at different stages"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":959.309,"endTime":962.429,"body":"of, of children going through to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":962.429,"endTime":966.539,"body":"primary education. And often it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":962.429,"endTime":966.539,"body":"is that product at the end,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":966.779,"endTime":969.359,"body":"where they're going to make"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":966.779,"endTime":969.359,"body":"this. This is what they're going"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":969.359,"endTime":975.449,"body":"to make. This actually brings"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":969.359,"endTime":975.449,"body":"across some other issues as"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":975.449,"endTime":978.569,"body":"well, which I found out"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":975.449,"endTime":978.569,"body":"recently, in some research that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":978.569,"endTime":985.499,"body":"I'm doing. You know, funding"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":978.569,"endTime":985.499,"body":"wise, we're even going to the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":985.499,"endTime":988.379,"body":"point where people are saying we"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":985.499,"endTime":988.379,"body":"can't, they can't afford those"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":988.379,"endTime":992.279,"body":"kinds of resources. So what do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":988.379,"endTime":992.279,"body":"we do? Because actually, they're"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":992.279,"endTime":995.969,"body":"not going to end up with a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":992.279,"endTime":995.969,"body":"product. We're finding it really"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":995.969,"endTime":996.719,"body":"difficult."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":996.93,"endTime":1000.05,"body":"Yeah. Because"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":996.93,"endTime":1000.05,"body":"there's a lot going on there"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1000.05,"endTime":1003.62,"body":"isn't it's like thinking about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1000.05,"endTime":1003.62,"body":"what, what, what does"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1003.62,"endTime":1006.29,"body":"progression look like in design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1003.62,"endTime":1006.29,"body":"and technology and primary"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1006.29,"endTime":1011.18,"body":"because what are they trying to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1006.29,"endTime":1011.18,"body":"progress in? Right? And then,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1012.26,"endTime":1015.74,"body":"yeah, being caught up with them"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1012.26,"endTime":1015.74,"body":"making something that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1015.74,"endTime":1021.2,"body":"finished, rather than handling"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1015.74,"endTime":1021.2,"body":"materials and doing processes"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1021.2,"endTime":1023.66,"body":"for the learning to be able to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1021.2,"endTime":1023.66,"body":"explore and develop their"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1023.66,"endTime":1027.68,"body":"designs, isn't it? It's kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1023.66,"endTime":1027.68,"body":"like, we get fixated on the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1027.71,"endTime":1030.98,"body":"thing at the end. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1027.71,"endTime":1030.98,"body":"we're assessing that rather than"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1031.34,"endTime":1036.38,"body":"the totality. Yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1031.34,"endTime":1036.38,"body":"progressing it."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1036.829,"endTime":1037.699,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1038.66,"endTime":1041.36,"body":"So yeah, just"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1038.66,"endTime":1041.36,"body":"gone, no Gone. Gone, you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1041.36,"endTime":1042.89,"body":"gonna say no, I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1043.19,"endTime":1046.88,"body":"think when I when"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1043.19,"endTime":1046.88,"body":"I definitely when I'm lecturing,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1047.9,"endTime":1053.72,"body":"seminars workshop, I keep I just"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1047.9,"endTime":1053.72,"body":"keep bringing it back to that,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1053.75,"endTime":1057.41,"body":"which is don't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1053.75,"endTime":1057.41,"body":"because I know the factors that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1057.41,"endTime":1060.41,"body":"make teachers really concerned"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1057.41,"endTime":1060.41,"body":"about teaching design and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1060.41,"endTime":1062.81,"body":"technology, I've seen it, I've"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1060.41,"endTime":1062.81,"body":"heard it, I've done some"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1062.81,"endTime":1069.05,"body":"research. And I speak regularly"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1062.81,"endTime":1069.05,"body":"with teachers in the field now"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1069.08,"endTime":1075.17,"body":"doing it, and they I know, it's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1069.08,"endTime":1075.17,"body":"time, it's it's confidence, it's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1075.17,"endTime":1079.76,"body":"resources. And I have to keep"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1075.17,"endTime":1079.76,"body":"bringing it back to remember,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1080.03,"endTime":1083.63,"body":"they don't have to make this"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1080.03,"endTime":1083.63,"body":"like sparkling brand new"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1083.75,"endTime":1088.25,"body":"product. And it's not about"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1083.75,"endTime":1088.25,"body":"that, you could do a whole six"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1088.25,"endTime":1093.92,"body":"week unit, where for the first"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1088.25,"endTime":1093.92,"body":"four weeks, there's no like,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1094.58,"endTime":1097.37,"body":"official kind of products being"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1094.58,"endTime":1097.37,"body":"made this sparkling product"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1097.37,"endTime":1099.95,"body":"being made at the end, they"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1097.37,"endTime":1099.95,"body":"could do four weeks of complete"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1099.95,"endTime":1105.98,"body":"prototyping with paper with a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1099.95,"endTime":1105.98,"body":"piece of paper and real problem"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1105.98,"endTime":1112.91,"body":"solving activities. As I do, I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1105.98,"endTime":1112.91,"body":"can really encourage that. And I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1112.91,"endTime":1115.58,"body":"had a student say to me once and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1112.91,"endTime":1115.58,"body":"I put it back in kind of an"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1115.58,"endTime":1119.33,"body":"example of what I would consider"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1115.58,"endTime":1119.33,"body":"a good six weeks, you know what"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1119.33,"endTime":1123.26,"body":"to look like? They were shocked"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1119.33,"endTime":1123.26,"body":"when they saw that the designing"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1123.53,"endTime":1126.83,"body":"aspect. And the making aspect"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1123.53,"endTime":1126.83,"body":"came in kind of week four and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1126.83,"endTime":1131.24,"body":"five of the six week unit of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1126.83,"endTime":1131.24,"body":"work, I said, but actually, it's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1131.24,"endTime":1133.97,"body":"not really about that. It's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1131.24,"endTime":1133.97,"body":"about them understanding current"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1133.97,"endTime":1138.65,"body":"products, how to redesign how to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1133.97,"endTime":1138.65,"body":"design, how to do that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1138.65,"endTime":1142.22,"body":"iteration, how to get things"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1138.65,"endTime":1142.22,"body":"wrong, how to develop it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1142.22,"endTime":1147.71,"body":"further, because that is design"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1142.22,"endTime":1147.71,"body":"and technology. What I feel it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1147.71,"endTime":1152.48,"body":"is at primary level, especially"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1147.71,"endTime":1152.48,"body":"we're just not going to make"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1152.48,"endTime":1155.51,"body":"this sparkling brand new product"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1152.48,"endTime":1155.51,"body":"at the end of it. So let's,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1155.63,"endTime":1157.04,"body":"let's change our mindset."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1157.879,"endTime":1160.759,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1157.879,"endTime":1160.759,"body":"And it's about you alluded to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1160.759,"endTime":1163.039,"body":"this earlier about primary"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1160.759,"endTime":1163.039,"body":"teachers subject knowledge"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1163.039,"endTime":1166.699,"body":"because of having to teach all"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1163.039,"endTime":1166.699,"body":"the subjects. It's about knowing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1166.699,"endTime":1172.129,"body":"what subject knowledge that they"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1166.699,"endTime":1172.129,"body":"need, that is sufficient."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1173.18,"endTime":1175.25,"body":"So this brings me"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1173.18,"endTime":1175.25,"body":"on to my research"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1181.34,"endTime":1186.98,"body":"I'm in I live in a London"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1181.34,"endTime":1186.98,"body":"borough, and we we have a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1187.01,"endTime":1191.96,"body":"organisation who provide"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1187.01,"endTime":1191.96,"body":"services for children in the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1192.08,"endTime":1195.53,"body":"borough. I live in Kingston, and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1192.08,"endTime":1195.53,"body":"Richmond, which is our"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1195.53,"endTime":1199.52,"body":"neighbouring borough, and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1195.53,"endTime":1199.52,"body":"they're a wonderful organisation"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1199.52,"endTime":1203.09,"body":"they've been around On since"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1199.52,"endTime":1203.09,"body":"forever, I can't remember a time"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1203.09,"endTime":1208.28,"body":"when they weren't around. And"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1203.09,"endTime":1208.28,"body":"they were always so brilliant at"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1209.45,"endTime":1214.82,"body":"being able to give all the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1209.45,"endTime":1214.82,"body":"teachers in our borough, don't"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1214.82,"endTime":1218.78,"body":"you think there's so many"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1214.82,"endTime":1218.78,"body":"schools in the suburbs, so many,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1219.08,"endTime":1222.23,"body":"all these teachers the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1219.08,"endTime":1222.23,"body":"opportunity to come together and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1222.23,"endTime":1227.51,"body":"network and talk about good"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1222.23,"endTime":1227.51,"body":"practice. And, and I think,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1227.57,"endTime":1234.29,"body":"obviously, the pandemic came"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1227.57,"endTime":1234.29,"body":"about, and we were in a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1234.29,"endTime":1237.02,"body":"situation where everything"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1234.29,"endTime":1237.02,"body":"needed to go very much at all"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1237.02,"endTime":1242.24,"body":"like everybody else. But one"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1237.02,"endTime":1242.24,"body":"thing that did happen was we"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1242.27,"endTime":1246.56,"body":"they decided, the organisation"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1242.27,"endTime":1246.56,"body":"decided that we actually needed"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1246.56,"endTime":1249.2,"body":"to do more in terms of network"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1246.56,"endTime":1249.2,"body":"meetings around these foundation"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1249.2,"endTime":1254.21,"body":"subjects, which were big really"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1249.2,"endTime":1254.21,"body":"scrutinised by Ofsted. So"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1254.36,"endTime":1257.12,"body":"actually, let's bring these"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1254.36,"endTime":1257.12,"body":"people together who coordinating"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1257.12,"endTime":1264.05,"body":"these subjects and let's, let's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1257.12,"endTime":1264.05,"body":"let's network. Yeah, these have"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1264.05,"endTime":1269.45,"body":"only ever been virtual. So all"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1264.05,"endTime":1269.45,"body":"online, chatting away, there"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1269.45,"endTime":1275.87,"body":"could be 4050 teachers on a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1269.45,"endTime":1275.87,"body":"team's meeting, Zoom call"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1275.87,"endTime":1278.54,"body":"whatever. And with, you know,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1275.87,"endTime":1278.54,"body":"one person's talking this"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1278.54,"endTime":1283.58,"body":"facilitator who doesn't get paid"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1278.54,"endTime":1283.58,"body":"for doing it, it's just, you"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1283.58,"endTime":1287.18,"body":"know, just keying off of the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1283.58,"endTime":1287.18,"body":"subject, and their school was"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1287.18,"endTime":1292.58,"body":"doing okay in it. So let's have"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1287.18,"endTime":1292.58,"body":"a chat. I went to hear these."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1292.61,"endTime":1295.76,"body":"And I have to admit, I didn't go"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1292.61,"endTime":1295.76,"body":"to too many, because I really"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1295.76,"endTime":1299.78,"body":"found them quite well, I came"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1295.76,"endTime":1299.78,"body":"away thinking well, what what"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1299.78,"endTime":1302.6,"body":"have these teachers been able to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1299.78,"endTime":1302.6,"body":"take away? We've, we've, we've"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1302.66,"endTime":1306.32,"body":"spoken for an hour and a half"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1302.66,"endTime":1306.32,"body":"online about design and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1306.32,"endTime":1312.2,"body":"technology, I think three or"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1306.32,"endTime":1312.2,"body":"four times a year? What what are"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1312.2,"endTime":1317.63,"body":"they taking away from this"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1312.2,"endTime":1317.63,"body":"workshop that we're supposed to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1317.63,"endTime":1322.07,"body":"be doing this virtual workshop."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1317.63,"endTime":1322.07,"body":"And we were we were kind of it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1322.07,"endTime":1326.96,"body":"was all about action plans, it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1322.07,"endTime":1326.96,"body":"was kind of paperwork he was"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1326.96,"endTime":1330.83,"body":"off, they're going to ask you."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1326.96,"endTime":1330.83,"body":"And at that time, I just thought"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1330.83,"endTime":1333.02,"body":"I've got to step back, I've got"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1330.83,"endTime":1333.02,"body":"to step back. And I've got to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1333.02,"endTime":1337.46,"body":"have a think about what I'm"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1333.02,"endTime":1337.46,"body":"doing here because I'm watching"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1337.46,"endTime":1340.16,"body":"something unfold. And nothing's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1337.46,"endTime":1340.16,"body":"really happening. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1340.16,"endTime":1343.19,"body":"noticing that people's cameras"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1340.16,"endTime":1343.19,"body":"are switched off. When I go into"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1343.19,"endTime":1346.52,"body":"these breakout rooms, you do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1343.19,"endTime":1346.52,"body":"only one or two people are"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1346.52,"endTime":1350.51,"body":"talking. It's all very awkward."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1346.52,"endTime":1350.51,"body":"And I thought, what can I do? So"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1350.51,"endTime":1354.5,"body":"I went away and I spoke to the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1350.51,"endTime":1354.5,"body":"curriculum, the curriculum"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1354.5,"endTime":1357.86,"body":"advisor for this organisation, I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1354.5,"endTime":1357.86,"body":"said, I just want to do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1357.86,"endTime":1362.3,"body":"something that's more hands on"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1357.86,"endTime":1362.3,"body":"where they are face to face. And"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1362.3,"endTime":1366.14,"body":"there's this kind of almost"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1362.3,"endTime":1366.14,"body":"vulnerability in the room about"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1366.29,"endTime":1370.91,"body":"AI saying, I don't know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1366.29,"endTime":1370.91,"body":"doing. Let's practice. Let's get"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1370.97,"endTime":1376.31,"body":"our hands dirty. Let's do let's"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1370.97,"endTime":1376.31,"body":"make some mistakes. So that I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1376.31,"endTime":1379.67,"body":"feel more confident about going"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1376.31,"endTime":1379.67,"body":"to plan and teach design and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1379.67,"endTime":1382.37,"body":"technology. Because if you look"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1379.67,"endTime":1382.37,"body":"at the national curriculum in"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1382.37,"endTime":1386.06,"body":"primary education for D and T,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1382.37,"endTime":1386.06,"body":"it's it's hard stuff."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1386.45,"endTime":1390.92,"body":"Something's in there not being"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1386.45,"endTime":1390.92,"body":"done. Because people just don't"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1390.92,"endTime":1393.44,"body":"feel comfortable. Don't feel"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1390.92,"endTime":1393.44,"body":"like they can because they"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1393.44,"endTime":1397.52,"body":"haven't had that practice, to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1393.44,"endTime":1397.52,"body":"practice. So I said, you know,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1397.85,"endTime":1400.97,"body":"can we do some workshops I want,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1397.85,"endTime":1400.97,"body":"I want to put on some face to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1400.97,"endTime":1404.03,"body":"face workshops. I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1400.97,"endTime":1404.03,"body":"call it workshops because I want"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1404.03,"endTime":1408.74,"body":"it to be I want it to be"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1404.03,"endTime":1408.74,"body":"predominantly Practical, not me"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1408.74,"endTime":1414.92,"body":"talking. It's them doing. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1408.74,"endTime":1414.92,"body":"so we put together a kind of a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1414.92,"endTime":1421.73,"body":"form for teachers in the local"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1414.92,"endTime":1421.73,"body":"boroughs to vote about which"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1421.73,"endTime":1424.82,"body":"area of the design or technology"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1421.73,"endTime":1424.82,"body":"national curriculum they were"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1424.82,"endTime":1430.19,"body":"feeling, least confident with."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1424.82,"endTime":1430.19,"body":"unanimously, it came back as"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1430.22,"endTime":1436.82,"body":"programming and control to the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1430.22,"endTime":1436.82,"body":"idea of using computing to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1436.94,"endTime":1441.2,"body":"enhance the design of something"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1436.94,"endTime":1441.2,"body":"which is actually a key stage to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1441.2,"endTime":1445.61,"body":"base, which just goes to show is"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1441.2,"endTime":1445.61,"body":"it's about that knowledge is the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1445.61,"endTime":1449.51,"body":"knowledge around it that people"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1445.61,"endTime":1449.51,"body":"were really struggling with. So"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1449.57,"endTime":1453.38,"body":"I straightaway said, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1449.57,"endTime":1453.38,"body":"to get my computing lead at St."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1453.38,"endTime":1457.31,"body":"Mary's University on board."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1453.38,"endTime":1457.31,"body":"Gonna come together, we're going"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1457.31,"endTime":1459.95,"body":"to create a workshop and it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1457.31,"endTime":1459.95,"body":"happened the other day, and it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1459.95,"endTime":1465.98,"body":"was, it was wonderful. And we"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1459.95,"endTime":1465.98,"body":"had it was quite successful. We"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1465.98,"endTime":1469.46,"body":"gave them a date. It wasn't that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1465.98,"endTime":1469.46,"body":"they you know, unfortunately, my"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1469.46,"endTime":1473.24,"body":"diaries quite, quite busy at the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1469.46,"endTime":1473.24,"body":"moment. So I really only had one"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1473.24,"endTime":1477.53,"body":"day that I could give and it was"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1473.24,"endTime":1477.53,"body":"an hour and a half after school"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1477.56,"endTime":1481.91,"body":"workshop, pouring rain, so I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1477.56,"endTime":1481.91,"body":"thought, you know, no one's kind"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1481.91,"endTime":1485.93,"body":"of want to no one's gonna want"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1481.91,"endTime":1485.93,"body":"to come. But they all turned up"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1486.74,"endTime":1491.3,"body":"all 20 schools, which"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1486.74,"endTime":1491.3,"body":"considering only gave them a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1491.3,"endTime":1494.81,"body":"date, a lot of this could have"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1491.3,"endTime":1494.81,"body":"been doing extracurricular"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1494.81,"endTime":1497.69,"body":"activities with the children"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1494.81,"endTime":1497.69,"body":"after school. We not teachers"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1497.69,"endTime":1503.42,"body":"take on clubs. You've got staff"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1497.69,"endTime":1503.42,"body":"meeting Yeah, I, they apart from"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1503.42,"endTime":1506.03,"body":"me talking for the first 15"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1503.42,"endTime":1506.03,"body":"minutes, they were just"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1506.69,"endTime":1512.21,"body":"practising using kind of micro"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1506.69,"endTime":1512.21,"body":"bit MaKey MaKey board crumble,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1512.6,"endTime":1515.66,"body":"and thinking about ways that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1512.6,"endTime":1515.66,"body":"they can use these products in"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1515.93,"endTime":1520.82,"body":"order to enhance the design that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1515.93,"endTime":1520.82,"body":"the children are doing. And we"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1520.82,"endTime":1526.76,"body":"gave them ideas, and they were"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1520.82,"endTime":1526.76,"body":"able to take away real ideas"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1526.76,"endTime":1530.18,"body":"that they could see working in"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1526.76,"endTime":1530.18,"body":"front of them. And they were"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1530.18,"endTime":1533.36,"body":"able to go away with"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1530.18,"endTime":1533.36,"body":"information, like how much"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1533.36,"endTime":1538.19,"body":"things cost, right? Well, how"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1533.36,"endTime":1538.19,"body":"many would I need for a class?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1538.73,"endTime":1543.2,"body":"How reliable are they? The"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1538.73,"endTime":1543.2,"body":"durability of these products can"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1543.47,"endTime":1546.23,"body":"because I need to tell my head"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1543.47,"endTime":1546.23,"body":"teacher because we haven't got a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1546.23,"endTime":1549.65,"body":"lot of money. So we want to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1546.23,"endTime":1549.65,"body":"know, I want to be able to go"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1549.65,"endTime":1553.46,"body":"back and sell this to them. And"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1549.65,"endTime":1553.46,"body":"I can show them actual pictures"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1553.46,"endTime":1558.11,"body":"of me putting this together, and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1553.46,"endTime":1558.11,"body":"just little ProShow type of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1558.47,"endTime":1563.45,"body":"things that they were doing in"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1558.47,"endTime":1563.45,"body":"this errand a bit. And I think"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1563.45,"endTime":1565.79,"body":"they're just really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1563.45,"endTime":1565.79,"body":"that. There's a lot to do. My"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1565.79,"endTime":1567.8,"body":"research has to do with that. So"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1565.79,"endTime":1567.8,"body":"effective professional"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1567.8,"endTime":1571.67,"body":"development. So I was really"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1567.8,"endTime":1571.67,"body":"happy."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1571.85,"endTime":1573.29,"body":"Well, that's that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1571.85,"endTime":1573.29,"body":"sounds really interesting. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1573.29,"endTime":1575.3,"body":"you've had them all together,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1573.29,"endTime":1575.3,"body":"they've done something that I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1575.3,"endTime":1577.22,"body":"think there's some really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1575.3,"endTime":1577.22,"body":"interesting points there about?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1577.55,"endTime":1580.88,"body":"Yeah. Is it durable? How easy is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1577.55,"endTime":1580.88,"body":"it for me as a teacher to fix"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1580.88,"endTime":1583.76,"body":"it? You know, what's, what's my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1580.88,"endTime":1583.76,"body":"subject knowledge? We don't? We"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1583.76,"endTime":1586.43,"body":"don't think about because"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1583.76,"endTime":1586.43,"body":"there's like lots of different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1586.43,"endTime":1589.04,"body":"things going on there again,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1586.43,"endTime":1589.04,"body":"isn't that there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1589.04,"endTime":1592.61,"body":"subject knowledge that teachers"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1589.04,"endTime":1592.61,"body":"need to have made it feel secure"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1592.61,"endTime":1596.36,"body":"in that, at least be aware of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1592.61,"endTime":1596.36,"body":"what the misconceptions are in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1596.36,"endTime":1601.97,"body":"that. And then the pedagogical"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1596.36,"endTime":1601.97,"body":"knowledge of well, how do I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1601.97,"endTime":1606.32,"body":"teach these things? And these"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1601.97,"endTime":1606.32,"body":"are two separate things really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1606.32,"endTime":1609.35,"body":"do not mean? So it's, it's the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1606.32,"endTime":1609.35,"body":"time for the subject knowledge."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1609.56,"endTime":1612.44,"body":"And it's a time for the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1609.56,"endTime":1612.44,"body":"pedagogy. So how am I going to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1612.44,"endTime":1616.1,"body":"teach it in such a way that the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1612.44,"endTime":1616.1,"body":"pupils are going through making"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1616.1,"endTime":1618.8,"body":"progress in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1616.1,"endTime":1618.8,"body":"technology? And they have the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1618.8,"endTime":1621.41,"body":"children have a secure subject"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1618.8,"endTime":1621.41,"body":"knowledge as well? Isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1621.41,"endTime":1624.86,"body":"It's kind of those two eyes, two"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1621.41,"endTime":1624.86,"body":"separate things completely"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1624.86,"endTime":1630.47,"body":"agree, I feel"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1624.86,"endTime":1630.47,"body":"that you can't do you can't do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1631.37,"endTime":1636.8,"body":"the How am I going to teach it?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1631.37,"endTime":1636.8,"body":"Unless you know how to really do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1636.83,"endTime":1640.25,"body":"do it yourself? I know that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1636.83,"endTime":1640.25,"body":"sounds quite basic, we know that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1640.25,"endTime":1644.81,"body":"but we don't do this primary"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1640.25,"endTime":1644.81,"body":"school teachers are absolutely"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1644.81,"endTime":1651.38,"body":"incredible. But we're not"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1644.81,"endTime":1651.38,"body":"specialists in these areas. Some"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1651.38,"endTime":1654.56,"body":"of them, especially if they've"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1651.38,"endTime":1654.56,"body":"done PDCA, they've had previous"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1654.56,"endTime":1657.53,"body":"roles, as I say, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1654.56,"endTime":1657.53,"body":"actually, this year, I taught an"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1657.53,"endTime":1662.12,"body":"engineer who had decided to then"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1657.53,"endTime":1662.12,"body":"come on board and be a teacher."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1662.12,"endTime":1667.82,"body":"And she was great within my DMT"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1662.12,"endTime":1667.82,"body":"DMT lectures, but not everybody"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1667.82,"endTime":1672.05,"body":"has done that. And it's it's a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1667.82,"endTime":1672.05,"body":"hard subject to get your head"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1672.05,"endTime":1676.79,"body":"around. And so if so without"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1672.05,"endTime":1676.79,"body":"having to actually get involved,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1677.12,"endTime":1679.88,"body":"do do, what you're actually"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1677.12,"endTime":1679.88,"body":"going to be teaching the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1679.88,"endTime":1683.39,"body":"children what to do, then"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1679.88,"endTime":1683.39,"body":"becomes easy, you can identify"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1683.39,"endTime":1687.56,"body":"those misconceptions, you can"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1683.39,"endTime":1687.56,"body":"identify what part you found the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1687.56,"endTime":1691.13,"body":"most challenging what part you"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1687.56,"endTime":1691.13,"body":"can actually become make into a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1691.13,"endTime":1694.7,"body":"problem solving activity for"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1691.13,"endTime":1694.7,"body":"those children. Because you"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1694.7,"endTime":1696.65,"body":"obviously just don't want to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1694.7,"endTime":1696.65,"body":"just teach them what the right"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1696.65,"endTime":1700.01,"body":"answer is. We want to get them"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1696.65,"endTime":1700.01,"body":"to investigate, which I think"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1700.01,"endTime":1703.07,"body":"there's a lot around dainty as"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1700.01,"endTime":1703.07,"body":"well, given those children"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1703.07,"endTime":1704.66,"body":"opportunity to make those"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1703.07,"endTime":1704.66,"body":"mistakes."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1705.32,"endTime":1708.32,"body":"Yeah, yeah. Well,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1705.32,"endTime":1708.32,"body":"while you were talking, I kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1708.32,"endTime":1711.29,"body":"of get quite quite a bee in my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1708.32,"endTime":1711.29,"body":"bonnet about teachers learning"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1711.29,"endTime":1715.88,"body":"subject knowledge, because"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1711.29,"endTime":1715.88,"body":"because the teachers are adults."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1717.11,"endTime":1720.47,"body":"And so when we talk about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1717.11,"endTime":1720.47,"body":"pedagogy that's about children."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1721.55,"endTime":1724.37,"body":"And when we're talking about our"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1721.55,"endTime":1724.37,"body":"teachers learning, that's about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1724.4,"endTime":1729.74,"body":"andragogy. That's about adults"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1724.4,"endTime":1729.74,"body":"learning. And so if you've not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1729.74,"endTime":1732.38,"body":"come across this before Malcolm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1729.74,"endTime":1732.38,"body":"Knowles is the is the kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1732.44,"endTime":1739.43,"body":"leading expert on andragogy."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1732.44,"endTime":1739.43,"body":"And, and I've just looked up"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1739.43,"endTime":1743.15,"body":"he's got he's got no I did, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1739.43,"endTime":1743.15,"body":"started a blog post. Last year,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1743.15,"endTime":1746.45,"body":"I went to do part two on our D"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1743.15,"endTime":1746.45,"body":"and T teacher education, and I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1746.45,"endTime":1748.76,"body":"never got it. Nobody ever called"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1746.45,"endTime":1748.76,"body":"me out. I've never done part"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1748.76,"endTime":1751.94,"body":"two, about andragogy I need to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1748.76,"endTime":1751.94,"body":"kind of pull my finger out on"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1751.94,"endTime":1754.25,"body":"that one. Even Matt McLean's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1751.94,"endTime":1754.25,"body":"have pulled me up on that one as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1754.25,"endTime":1757.73,"body":"I did part one else, and in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1754.25,"endTime":1757.73,"body":"January 2020 to do was part two,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1758.72,"endTime":1765.17,"body":"but Andrew Gargi is a proposed"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1758.72,"endTime":1765.17,"body":"theory and under way that's what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1765.17,"endTime":1767.54,"body":"it's about the fact that I was"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1765.17,"endTime":1767.54,"body":"when you said we asked the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1767.54,"endTime":1772.04,"body":"teachers what they wanted to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1767.54,"endTime":1772.04,"body":"know about. That's that's the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1772.1,"endTime":1777.08,"body":"that's the that's one really key"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1772.1,"endTime":1777.08,"body":"thing is that it those talks"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1777.08,"endTime":1781.1,"body":"about the adults are one of the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1777.08,"endTime":1781.1,"body":"one of the criteria for adults"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1781.1,"endTime":1784.4,"body":"learning is about them learning"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1781.1,"endTime":1784.4,"body":"subjects that they had an"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1784.4,"endTime":1789.5,"body":"immediate relevance to their"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1784.4,"endTime":1789.5,"body":"work and, and that they are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1789.5,"endTime":1792.17,"body":"responsible for their that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1789.5,"endTime":1792.17,"body":"decision so that you gave them"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1792.17,"endTime":1795.77,"body":"that option to make that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1792.17,"endTime":1795.77,"body":"decision. So so it's taking a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1795.77,"endTime":1798.8,"body":"very long way winded around"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1795.77,"endTime":1798.8,"body":"around of this is that I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1798.8,"endTime":1801.83,"body":"when we do proof additional"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1798.8,"endTime":1801.83,"body":"development for teachers about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1801.83,"endTime":1805.49,"body":"subject knowledge, we need to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1801.83,"endTime":1805.49,"body":"remember that we're teaching"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1805.55,"endTime":1811.25,"body":"adults, we're not teaching"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1805.55,"endTime":1811.25,"body":"children. So we need to kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1811.28,"endTime":1813.92,"body":"think about how we're getting"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1811.28,"endTime":1813.92,"body":"them on board in learning this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1813.92,"endTime":1818.06,"body":"subject knowledge. And then as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1813.92,"endTime":1818.06,"body":"they're learning it, helping"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1818.06,"endTime":1820.76,"body":"them pick it. So they can kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1818.06,"endTime":1820.76,"body":"of see the different parts and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1820.76,"endTime":1822.86,"body":"see how the different bits of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1820.76,"endTime":1822.86,"body":"knowledge are linking together."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1823.13,"endTime":1826.49,"body":"And you're doing it through them"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1823.13,"endTime":1826.49,"body":"being problem solving, problem"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1826.49,"endTime":1829.58,"body":"centred, which is more of a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1826.49,"endTime":1829.58,"body":"thing for adults than it is for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1829.58,"endTime":1832.79,"body":"children actually, rather than"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1829.58,"endTime":1832.79,"body":"contents orientates, that whole"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1832.79,"endTime":1835.64,"body":"thing about you doing the hands"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1832.79,"endTime":1835.64,"body":"on and then then using it and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1835.64,"endTime":1839.39,"body":"handling it and touching it,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1835.64,"endTime":1839.39,"body":"it's much more relevant in terms"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1839.39,"endTime":1843.14,"body":"of adults in terms of learning"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1839.39,"endTime":1843.14,"body":"than it is necessarily have of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1843.14,"endTime":1845.99,"body":"children, learn for children?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1843.14,"endTime":1845.99,"body":"It's kind of I think it's more"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1845.99,"endTime":1851.6,"body":"about makes it makes making"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1845.99,"endTime":1851.6,"body":"things concrete. Yeah, then you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1851.6,"endTime":1855.08,"body":"move into that whole pedagogy."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1851.6,"endTime":1855.08,"body":"Part of it is I'm a teacher,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1855.08,"endTime":1858.29,"body":"I've kind of got some more of a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1855.08,"endTime":1858.29,"body":"grasp of this subject knowledge."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1858.65,"endTime":1864.17,"body":"So now I'm faced with my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1858.65,"endTime":1864.17,"body":"2020 567 and eight year olds,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1864.2,"endTime":1869.33,"body":"how do I, how do I manage it?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1864.2,"endTime":1869.33,"body":"You know what? And actually,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1869.54,"endTime":1872.36,"body":"sometimes there's something like"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1869.54,"endTime":1872.36,"body":"programming, you're not wanting"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1872.36,"endTime":1877.22,"body":"them to be able to work"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1872.36,"endTime":1877.22,"body":"something out, you might teach"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1877.22,"endTime":1882.14,"body":"them input process output."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1877.22,"endTime":1882.14,"body":"Here's a basic circuit. Now"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1882.14,"endTime":1885.62,"body":"we're going to design something"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1882.14,"endTime":1885.62,"body":"using that basic circuit, basic"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1885.62,"endTime":1887.99,"body":"programme. We're not going to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1885.62,"endTime":1887.99,"body":"design a programme, we're going"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1887.99,"endTime":1892.88,"body":"to design something that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1887.99,"endTime":1892.88,"body":"utilises that programme. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1892.91,"endTime":1894.77,"body":"Does that make sense? And so"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1892.91,"endTime":1894.77,"body":"there, so then, because the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1894.77,"endTime":1896.93,"body":"teachers have handled that they"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1894.77,"endTime":1896.93,"body":"can have that awareness of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1896.93,"endTime":1900.89,"body":"thinking? Yeah, that's the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1896.93,"endTime":1900.89,"body":"knowledge than the design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1900.92,"endTime":1902.75,"body":"knowledge, but it is what what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1900.92,"endTime":1902.75,"body":"can we do with it?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1902.93,"endTime":1904.85,"body":"What can we do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1902.93,"endTime":1904.85,"body":"with it? And actually, that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1904.85,"endTime":1911.48,"body":"becomes really exciting. As soon"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1904.85,"endTime":1911.48,"body":"as you know, about these kind of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1911.54,"endTime":1915.89,"body":"the principles there about how"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1911.54,"endTime":1915.89,"body":"something works, actually, in"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1915.89,"endTime":1919.97,"body":"order to then put that into a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1915.89,"endTime":1919.97,"body":"planning format. To teach"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1919.97,"endTime":1924.44,"body":"children about? Yeah, I mean, we"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1919.97,"endTime":1924.44,"body":"were, we were really getting"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1924.44,"endTime":1927.65,"body":"involved as a group. The other"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1924.44,"endTime":1927.65,"body":"week, when we were doing this"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1927.65,"endTime":1931.04,"body":"workshop, what kinds of things"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1927.65,"endTime":1931.04,"body":"could we do with the children,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1931.34,"endTime":1937.22,"body":"she became quite exciting. And I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1931.34,"endTime":1937.22,"body":"absolutely convinced before the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1937.22,"endTime":1939.5,"body":"session was started, they"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1937.22,"endTime":1939.5,"body":"probably were not looking"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1939.5,"endTime":1942.17,"body":"forward to it. And thought,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1939.5,"endTime":1942.17,"body":"Gosh, I don't know what I'm"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1942.17,"endTime":1944.72,"body":"about to expect, I'm probably"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1942.17,"endTime":1944.72,"body":"going to be really confused."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1944.75,"endTime":1947.72,"body":"This isn't something of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1944.75,"endTime":1947.72,"body":"immediate value to me,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1947.93,"endTime":1954.41,"body":"potentially, although they came,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1947.93,"endTime":1954.41,"body":"they signed up. But they"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1954.41,"endTime":1958.49,"body":"actually left it out, you know,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1954.41,"endTime":1958.49,"body":"what we could make a I could"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1958.49,"endTime":1961.28,"body":"tell, which was one of the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1958.49,"endTime":1961.28,"body":"things we brought with us is"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1961.28,"endTime":1964.4,"body":"like a little cardboard guitar"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1961.28,"endTime":1964.4,"body":"with split pins, and we could"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1964.4,"endTime":1967.25,"body":"show them that the output could"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1964.4,"endTime":1967.25,"body":"be is exactly what we've just"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1967.25,"endTime":1971.21,"body":"done. But we've just got to slip"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1967.25,"endTime":1971.21,"body":"in, in something that looks like"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1971.21,"endTime":1978.41,"body":"a guitar, and the children of a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":1971.21,"endTime":1978.41,"body":"musical instrument. See that?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1980.75,"endTime":1982.28,"body":"I've got up on my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1980.75,"endTime":1982.28,"body":"shelf. I think it's my shelf at"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1982.28,"endTime":1987.95,"body":"work. If you look back at the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1982.28,"endTime":1987.95,"body":"Nuffield DMT stuff. And I know"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1987.95,"endTime":1990.32,"body":"the key stage two, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1987.95,"endTime":1990.32,"body":"the Key Stage Two stuff. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1990.32,"endTime":1994.25,"body":"they talk about children making"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1990.32,"endTime":1994.25,"body":"a musical instrument. Yeah. Or"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1994.25,"endTime":1999.71,"body":"designing a musical instrument."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1994.25,"endTime":1999.71,"body":"Yeah. So. So you're doing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1999.71,"endTime":2003.46,"body":"research around this around? How"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1999.71,"endTime":2003.46,"body":"do you? Is it about how do you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2003.46,"endTime":2005.83,"body":"teach teachers? subject"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2003.46,"endTime":2005.83,"body":"knowledge? Indian tea?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2006.04,"endTime":2009.91,"body":"Yeah, sure. title"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2006.04,"endTime":2009.91,"body":"of it is effective professional"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2009.91,"endTime":2012.31,"body":"development to enhance the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2009.91,"endTime":2012.31,"body":"teaching of cloud technology."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2012.67,"endTime":2015.73,"body":"And this is a small scale one."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2012.67,"endTime":2015.73,"body":"So I want to do this for Part"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2015.73,"endTime":2022.0,"body":"40. Okay, watch it. Yeah. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2015.73,"endTime":2022.0,"body":"I'm going to do some"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2022.0,"endTime":2027.4,"body":"interviewing, actually. So to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2022.0,"endTime":2027.4,"body":"get to get feedback on what the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2027.4,"endTime":2029.14,"body":"teachers actually thought about"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2027.4,"endTime":2029.14,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2029.2,"endTime":2032.83,"body":"So what's what's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2029.2,"endTime":2032.83,"body":"your criteria for assessing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2032.83,"endTime":2035.35,"body":"whether the professional"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2032.83,"endTime":2035.35,"body":"development has been effective?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2035.74,"endTime":2039.43,"body":"So I first looked"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2035.74,"endTime":2039.43,"body":"at because when I was kind of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2039.94,"endTime":2043.24,"body":"interested in what professional"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2039.94,"endTime":2043.24,"body":"development should look like,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2043.27,"endTime":2047.65,"body":"because actually, I could give"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2043.27,"endTime":2047.65,"body":"it a good go. But I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2047.65,"endTime":2052.51,"body":"know, like, research behind what"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2047.65,"endTime":2052.51,"body":"professional development because"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2053.17,"endTime":2059.71,"body":"I actually went and did a lot of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2053.17,"endTime":2059.71,"body":"research. So I read about a lot"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2059.71,"endTime":2063.7,"body":"of research the education"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2059.71,"endTime":2063.7,"body":"Endowment Foundation had done on"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2063.82,"endTime":2065.32,"body":"effective professional"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2063.82,"endTime":2065.32,"body":"development"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2066.94,"endTime":2068.74,"body":"during the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2066.94,"endTime":2068.74,"body":"university lead on it didn't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2068.74,"endTime":2070.15,"body":"Yeah, they did people like"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2070.15,"endTime":2072.13,"body":"that. Yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2070.15,"endTime":2072.13,"body":"was exactly it. So I read the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2072.13,"endTime":2075.7,"body":"guidance report, and they have"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2072.13,"endTime":2075.7,"body":"done kind of like a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2075.7,"endTime":2078.61,"body":"recommendations on effective"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2075.7,"endTime":2078.61,"body":"professional development. So I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2078.61,"endTime":2084.01,"body":"planned it based on those"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2078.61,"endTime":2084.01,"body":"recommendations. And my"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2084.01,"endTime":2090.13,"body":"questioning to the teachers are"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2084.01,"endTime":2090.13,"body":"around kind of weather whether"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2090.16,"endTime":2094.54,"body":"I've met those criteria, that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2090.16,"endTime":2094.54,"body":"criteria that I've looked up, so"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2094.54,"endTime":2094.72,"body":"when"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2095.53,"endTime":2097.12,"body":"you started your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2095.53,"endTime":2097.12,"body":"interviews yet,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2097.54,"endTime":2098.5,"body":"no happen."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2099.25,"endTime":2102.55,"body":"Right? So I I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2099.25,"endTime":2102.55,"body":"gonna, I'm going to, I like to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2102.58,"endTime":2105.25,"body":"stick my nose in where it's not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2102.58,"endTime":2105.25,"body":"welcome. So, you know, feel free"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2105.25,"endTime":2109.42,"body":"to tell me lost at any point you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2105.25,"endTime":2109.42,"body":"need. So I love how you've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2109.42,"endTime":2111.94,"body":"designed the professional"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2109.42,"endTime":2111.94,"body":"development based on other"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2111.94,"endTime":2115.9,"body":"people's research into what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2111.94,"endTime":2115.9,"body":"makes effective professional"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2115.9,"endTime":2122.47,"body":"development. But I suppose to me"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2115.9,"endTime":2122.47,"body":"the next bit is your you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2122.47,"endTime":2124.96,"body":"reasonably confident that you've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2122.47,"endTime":2124.96,"body":"designed something based on that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2124.96,"endTime":2129.31,"body":"criteria, you know that you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2124.96,"endTime":2129.31,"body":"the course designer? The next"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2129.31,"endTime":2132.46,"body":"bit, I suppose, really is what's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2129.31,"endTime":2132.46,"body":"the impact of that professional"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2132.46,"endTime":2137.89,"body":"development? And so does the EF"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2132.46,"endTime":2137.89,"body":"stuff say anything about, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2137.89,"endTime":2141.01,"body":"know, not just what what the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2137.89,"endTime":2141.01,"body":"professional development should"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2141.01,"endTime":2144.82,"body":"look like, but what what impact"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2141.01,"endTime":2144.82,"body":"it should have? And that, to me"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2144.82,"endTime":2149.2,"body":"will be the criteria for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2144.82,"endTime":2149.2,"body":"assessing the professional"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2149.2,"endTime":2152.95,"body":"development is not does it meet"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2149.2,"endTime":2152.95,"body":"the criteria of it being a well"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2152.95,"endTime":2155.86,"body":"designed programme, but, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2152.95,"endTime":2155.86,"body":"know, do they do they have more"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2155.86,"endTime":2160.33,"body":"subject knowledge? Could you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2155.86,"endTime":2160.33,"body":"test them? Yeah, well, they're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2160.33,"endTime":2163.66,"body":"using it. What impact is it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2160.33,"endTime":2163.66,"body":"having on the children? Are the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2163.66,"endTime":2166.69,"body":"children's subject knowledge"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2163.66,"endTime":2166.69,"body":"better? How do they know that?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2166.69,"endTime":2169.99,"body":"If they, if they tested it? If"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2166.69,"endTime":2169.99,"body":"they do they see it evidenced in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2169.99,"endTime":2172.84,"body":"their design work? Are they"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2169.99,"endTime":2172.84,"body":"designing with programmes more"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2172.84,"endTime":2173.44,"body":"confidently?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2173.59,"endTime":2174.73,"body":"I didn't. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2173.59,"endTime":2174.73,"body":"no, that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2174.73,"endTime":2177.7,"body":"interesting around"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2174.73,"endTime":2177.7,"body":"there going, No, impact isn't"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2177.7,"endTime":2181.12,"body":"absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2177.7,"endTime":2181.12,"body":"they and they actually created"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2181.12,"endTime":2184.21,"body":"this mechanism, you know,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2181.12,"endTime":2184.21,"body":"professional development"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2184.21,"endTime":2187.69,"body":"mechanisms. And I thought,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2184.21,"endTime":2187.69,"body":"that's interesting. Identity. So"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2187.69,"endTime":2190.99,"body":"I thought I'd have a read. And"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2187.69,"endTime":2190.99,"body":"actually, it has a section on"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2190.99,"endTime":2194.98,"body":"there about embedding practice."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2190.99,"endTime":2194.98,"body":"And that sort of those things"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2194.98,"endTime":2196.99,"body":"you've come out with, I've"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2194.98,"endTime":2196.99,"body":"actually got it up so I can"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2196.99,"endTime":2202.54,"body":"remind myself, but yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2196.99,"endTime":2202.54,"body":"kind of idea of monitoring"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2202.54,"endTime":2207.67,"body":"afterwards, like, have they been"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2202.54,"endTime":2207.67,"body":"able to successfully plan a unit"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2207.7,"endTime":2210.94,"body":"on this? Have they been able to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2207.7,"endTime":2210.94,"body":"successfully teach the other"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2210.94,"endTime":2213.76,"body":"teachers about this? So it's not"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2210.94,"endTime":2213.76,"body":"just that person who came to the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2213.76,"endTime":2218.02,"body":"workshop? Have you now given all"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2213.76,"endTime":2218.02,"body":"this information to everybody"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2218.02,"endTime":2220.72,"body":"else who has to teach as well?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2218.02,"endTime":2220.72,"body":"Because you're not just going to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2220.72,"endTime":2225.55,"body":"person? Is it being repeated?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2220.72,"endTime":2225.55,"body":"You know, will you be doing it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2225.55,"endTime":2228.52,"body":"again? Will you be? Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2225.55,"endTime":2228.52,"body":"it's definitely an ongoing"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2228.91,"endTime":2232.84,"body":"research? Because you can, and I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2228.91,"endTime":2232.84,"body":"have put that it's kind of the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2232.84,"endTime":2237.82,"body":"ongoing small scale research"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2232.84,"endTime":2237.82,"body":"study. I think my main point of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2237.82,"endTime":2242.59,"body":"doing it as well was to kind of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2237.82,"endTime":2242.59,"body":"show the organisation the local"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2242.59,"endTime":2246.25,"body":"authority that this was needed."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2242.59,"endTime":2246.25,"body":"Yeah. Wow."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2246.28,"endTime":2250.3,"body":"So it is it's that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2246.28,"endTime":2250.3,"body":"impact bit that I yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2250.3,"endTime":2254.59,"body":"you should be, you should be"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2250.3,"endTime":2254.59,"body":"measuring. Yeah. That's, that's,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2254.59,"endTime":2257.98,"body":"that's my thinking is, what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2254.59,"endTime":2257.98,"body":"difference is it making back in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2257.98,"endTime":2261.52,"body":"their schools, to the children"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2257.98,"endTime":2261.52,"body":"to their colleagues?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2265.27,"endTime":2265.99,"body":"I'm gonna go in,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2266.53,"endTime":2268.12,"body":"can't see this,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2266.53,"endTime":2268.12,"body":"but me and you are wagging our"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2268.12,"endTime":2268.96,"body":"fingers at each other?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2271.54,"endTime":2274.45,"body":"Now, me, like I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2271.54,"endTime":2274.45,"body":"said, this near the beginning of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2274.45,"endTime":2278.44,"body":"this podcast, me going into"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2274.45,"endTime":2278.44,"body":"schools, and actually seeing"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2278.44,"endTime":2282.22,"body":"this being done. Yeah. Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2278.44,"endTime":2282.22,"body":"think going well, that's a big"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2282.22,"endTime":2288.64,"body":"tick, isn't it? That's bought 30"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2282.22,"endTime":2288.64,"body":"Makey Makey balls. And now"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2288.64,"endTime":2289.03,"body":"you're actually"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2290.35,"endTime":2293.14,"body":"like, that's,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2290.35,"endTime":2293.14,"body":"that's a question, isn't it? So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2293.14,"endTime":2297.04,"body":"what did you buy? You know, how"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2293.14,"endTime":2297.04,"body":"often has it been used? Who's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2297.04,"endTime":2300.61,"body":"using it? Who have you talk to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2297.04,"endTime":2300.61,"body":"us it? You know, can we have a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2300.61,"endTime":2303.58,"body":"look at some children's work?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2300.61,"endTime":2303.58,"body":"You know, can we see the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2303.58,"endTime":2307.24,"body":"knowledge in the world or not? I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2303.58,"endTime":2307.24,"body":"mean, yeah, absolutely. Well,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2307.24,"endTime":2309.88,"body":"no, no, no, no, no, no, not so"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2307.24,"endTime":2309.88,"body":"much pupil voice. Sorry. I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2309.88,"endTime":2315.43,"body":"kind of like, sorry, I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2309.88,"endTime":2315.43,"body":"like, I'm more looking at what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2315.43,"endTime":2319.54,"body":"are the children doing? What are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2315.43,"endTime":2319.54,"body":"you seeing in? You know, how"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2319.54,"endTime":2322.81,"body":"does this How does the teacher"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2319.54,"endTime":2322.81,"body":"know that what they've learned"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2322.81,"endTime":2326.35,"body":"about programming, that then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2322.81,"endTime":2326.35,"body":"they are teaching that the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2326.35,"endTime":2329.14,"body":"children are then learning it,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2326.35,"endTime":2329.14,"body":"where you go, you go looking for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2329.14,"endTime":2331.72,"body":"that? Surely, and the children's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2329.14,"endTime":2331.72,"body":"work, whether that's an"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2331.72,"endTime":2335.83,"body":"artefact, or a drawing, or a bit"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2331.72,"endTime":2335.83,"body":"of a programme or whatever, it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2335.83,"endTime":2339.64,"body":"doesn't have to be anything"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2335.83,"endTime":2339.64,"body":"magnificent does it you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2339.64,"endTime":2344.44,"body":"doesn't have to be something,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2339.64,"endTime":2344.44,"body":"you know, any anybody produces"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2344.44,"endTime":2346.42,"body":"gets the kids to produce work,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2344.44,"endTime":2346.42,"body":"just so we've got flipping"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2346.42,"endTime":2349.12,"body":"evidence that the children have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2346.42,"endTime":2349.12,"body":"learned, you know, but it's,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2349.27,"endTime":2351.25,"body":"it's it was maybe it's even"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2349.27,"endTime":2351.25,"body":"asking the teacher how do you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2351.25,"endTime":2357.43,"body":"know that the children know it?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2351.25,"endTime":2357.43,"body":"Yep. Isn't it? Yeah. Oh, that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2357.43,"endTime":2358.96,"body":"gonna be Pat."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2359.44,"endTime":2362.62,"body":"Oh, yeah. This is"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2359.44,"endTime":2362.62,"body":"my first Pat, as you know, so I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2362.62,"endTime":2366.7,"body":"think it will be Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2362.62,"endTime":2366.7,"body":"it'd be lovely experience. I'm"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2366.7,"endTime":2370.45,"body":"ready for it. You know, it's the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2366.7,"endTime":2370.45,"body":"first time and I remember"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2370.45,"endTime":2375.97,"body":"hearing your experiences. Your"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2370.45,"endTime":2375.97,"body":"first time sometimes it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2375.97,"endTime":2378.82,"body":"always go to plan you're gonna"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2375.97,"endTime":2378.82,"body":"get people questioning you but"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2378.82,"endTime":2382.9,"body":"I'm ready for this. Like, this"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2378.82,"endTime":2382.9,"body":"is higher education. This is I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2382.9,"endTime":2387.1,"body":"want to get into academia. My"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2382.9,"endTime":2387.1,"body":"EDD doc. It's putting me through"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2389.23,"endTime":2394.78,"body":"highs and lows, sometimes more"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2389.23,"endTime":2394.78,"body":"lows and highs and but uh, but"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2394.99,"endTime":2395.92,"body":"it's rewarding."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2396.55,"endTime":2401.29,"body":"Yeah, yeah. So So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2396.55,"endTime":2401.29,"body":"you've got some research on the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2401.29,"endTime":2404.14,"body":"way. So you're gonna come back"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2401.29,"endTime":2404.14,"body":"on the podcast when you come"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2404.14,"endTime":2410.41,"body":"back on the podcast before you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2404.14,"endTime":2410.41,"body":"do pap 40 could do a dry run of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2410.41,"endTime":2413.17,"body":"your presentation, and I'll be"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2410.41,"endTime":2413.17,"body":"your audience because let's face"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2413.17,"endTime":2415.15,"body":"it, I mean, I'm not gonna give"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2413.17,"endTime":2415.15,"body":"you an easy ride on it. Am I?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2417.22,"endTime":2419.5,"body":"Do you ever think"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2417.22,"endTime":2419.5,"body":"that you'd give me an easy ride?"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2419.5,"endTime":2422.14,"body":"Now I want to be absolutely"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2419.5,"endTime":2422.14,"body":"critiqued."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2422.77,"endTime":2425.71,"body":"And then fine,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2422.77,"endTime":2425.71,"body":"then I then come back, I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2425.71,"endTime":2427.72,"body":"people would be really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2425.71,"endTime":2427.72,"body":"interested to hear as well,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2428.29,"endTime":2431.02,"body":"about what you're seeing that is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2428.29,"endTime":2431.02,"body":"happening in primary because I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2431.02,"endTime":2434.65,"body":"think most of the people are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2431.02,"endTime":2434.65,"body":"listening the secondary. And so"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2434.68,"endTime":2438.01,"body":"it'd be good to hear what what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2434.68,"endTime":2438.01,"body":"is actually happening in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2438.01,"endTime":2441.43,"body":"primary. And we know we've got"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2438.01,"endTime":2441.43,"body":"to we've got a chapter in the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2441.43,"endTime":2445.54,"body":"debates book, written by Kathy"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2441.43,"endTime":2445.54,"body":"granny about that transition."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2447.16,"endTime":2449.65,"body":"But I think, you know, we need"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2447.16,"endTime":2449.65,"body":"to hear from primary experts"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2449.65,"endTime":2453.16,"body":"like yourself talking about what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2449.65,"endTime":2453.16,"body":"is happening in primary what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2453.19,"endTime":2457.54,"body":"what is it about primary DNC"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2453.19,"endTime":2457.54,"body":"that makes it primary DNC? Not?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2457.9,"endTime":2460.87,"body":"Not? This is what you do before"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2457.9,"endTime":2460.87,"body":"you go into secondary? Do you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2460.87,"endTime":2464.44,"body":"know, the mean, that makes it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2460.87,"endTime":2464.44,"body":"makes it? So that'd be good."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2464.47,"endTime":2466.93,"body":"That'd be good to have you back"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2464.47,"endTime":2466.93,"body":"for two more podcasts, at least"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2466.93,"endTime":2471.22,"body":"Janine one on this research,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2466.93,"endTime":2471.22,"body":"sharing what you're finding, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2471.22,"endTime":2475.3,"body":"then one on one, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2471.22,"endTime":2475.3,"body":"what's happening in primary what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2475.3,"endTime":2476.38,"body":"you're what you're seeing."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2477.85,"endTime":2480.37,"body":"And as soon as I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2477.85,"endTime":2480.37,"body":"kind of start deciding what I'm"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2480.37,"endTime":2483.79,"body":"going to actually do my thesis"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2480.37,"endTime":2483.79,"body":"on, it'd be lovely to talk about"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2483.79,"endTime":2487.06,"body":"that as well, because that's a"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2483.79,"endTime":2487.06,"body":"bit a bit of a blur, because I'm"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2487.06,"endTime":2490.57,"body":"in year one of my doctorate"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2487.06,"endTime":2490.57,"body":"right now. So I'm still learning"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2490.6,"endTime":2496.51,"body":"my, who I am my professional"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2490.6,"endTime":2496.51,"body":"identity. My stance, my"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2496.51,"endTime":2498.73,"body":"position, it's still being"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2496.51,"endTime":2498.73,"body":"figured out."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2499.06,"endTime":2501.49,"body":"Yeah, and it will"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2499.06,"endTime":2501.49,"body":"change, it will change. I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2501.49,"endTime":2504.43,"body":"remember Steve curl. When I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2501.49,"endTime":2504.43,"body":"started doing my PhD back in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2504.43,"endTime":2508.66,"body":"2011 2012. He talked to me and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2504.43,"endTime":2508.66,"body":"he, he drew a picture of a cloud"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2508.75,"endTime":2511.6,"body":"on a bit of paper. Sure, I've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2508.75,"endTime":2511.6,"body":"probably got it somewhere. So do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2511.6,"endTime":2514.0,"body":"a bit of a cloud. And it kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2511.6,"endTime":2514.0,"body":"like drew these little chinks."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2514.27,"endTime":2516.28,"body":"And he said, when you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2514.27,"endTime":2516.28,"body":"starting your feet, there's not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2516.28,"endTime":2519.64,"body":"many chinks in the cloud, it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2516.28,"endTime":2519.64,"body":"just feels like a mass of cloud."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2519.64,"endTime":2522.91,"body":"And occasionally, and then over"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2519.64,"endTime":2522.91,"body":"time, the cloud dissipates, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2522.91,"endTime":2524.68,"body":"you see more and more of the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2522.91,"endTime":2524.68,"body":"light coming through, and you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2524.68,"endTime":2528.1,"body":"see the picture for me. So that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2524.68,"endTime":2528.1,"body":"was a really beautiful way of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2528.1,"endTime":2528.94,"body":"putting it but it is"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2530.8,"endTime":2532.72,"body":"really not. And"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2530.8,"endTime":2532.72,"body":"it's nice, because obviously his"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2532.75,"endTime":2539.47,"body":"his wife is my supervisor. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2532.75,"endTime":2539.47,"body":"so she says similar, and it's so"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2539.47,"endTime":2540.07,"body":"lovely."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2540.52,"endTime":2544.27,"body":"Oh, well. So you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2540.52,"endTime":2544.27,"body":"can pass that on that."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2544.78,"endTime":2547.72,"body":"Somebody's remembering what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2544.78,"endTime":2547.72,"body":"Steve said, what, 1112 years ago"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2547.72,"endTime":2552.19,"body":"now? And yeah, that was a packed"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2547.72,"endTime":2552.19,"body":"conference as well. Believe it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2552.19,"endTime":2554.77,"body":"or not, that was a conversation."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2552.19,"endTime":2554.77,"body":"We had a packed conference. That"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2554.77,"endTime":2561.4,"body":"one was in Stockholm. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2554.77,"endTime":2561.4,"body":"yeah. Right. Yeah. It's been"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2561.4,"endTime":2564.52,"body":"great to talk to you. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2561.4,"endTime":2564.52,"body":"then yeah, come back, come back"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2564.52,"endTime":2567.79,"body":"two, three times. Because I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2564.52,"endTime":2567.79,"body":"mean, I'm tired of Sarah and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2567.79,"endTime":2575.68,"body":"Matt coming back repeatedly."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2567.79,"endTime":2575.68,"body":"Probably tired has been so easy,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2575.68,"endTime":2577.87,"body":"saying come on the podcast and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2575.68,"endTime":2577.87,"body":"talk about this with me."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2579.79,"endTime":2583.39,"body":"Personally, but"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2579.79,"endTime":2583.39,"body":"I'm more than happy to do that."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2583.39,"endTime":2588.52,"body":"Absolutely. And I also, by the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2583.39,"endTime":2588.52,"body":"way, I have a few people in the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2588.52,"endTime":2591.88,"body":"pipeline for doing some kind of"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2588.52,"endTime":2591.88,"body":"blog writing as well, because I"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2591.88,"endTime":2595.69,"body":"know that we want it Yeah, I'm"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2591.88,"endTime":2595.69,"body":"just waiting for some results to"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2595.69,"endTime":2599.56,"body":"be released to them before I can"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2595.69,"endTime":2599.56,"body":"actually tell them, but one"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2599.56,"endTime":2603.46,"body":"other person is just has done"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2599.56,"endTime":2603.46,"body":"some wonderful, wonderful"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2603.46,"endTime":2608.08,"body":"teaching in school. I suppose."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2603.46,"endTime":2608.08,"body":"Let's talk let's just put it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2608.08,"endTime":2610.99,"body":"into gloves talking about it"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2608.08,"endTime":2610.99,"body":"that you know, this is nice. I'm"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2610.99,"endTime":2613.6,"body":"only a trainee teacher, I can"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2610.99,"endTime":2613.6,"body":"only train the teacher you've"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2613.6,"endTime":2618.07,"body":"got fresh mind. You've got all"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2613.6,"endTime":2618.07,"body":"the kind of you've got the"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2618.07,"endTime":2622.87,"body":"although you know, wants to do"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2618.07,"endTime":2622.87,"body":"some really good teaching and"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2622.87,"endTime":2625.51,"body":"got some passion unto you. So"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2622.87,"endTime":2625.51,"body":"now we want you to write"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2626.98,"endTime":2629.71,"body":"salutely"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2626.98,"endTime":2629.71,"body":"Absolutely. So for people who"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2629.71,"endTime":2633.31,"body":"are unfamiliar with what we're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2629.71,"endTime":2633.31,"body":"talking about, Janine has joined"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2633.55,"endTime":2636.01,"body":"myself and Matt as editors for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2633.55,"endTime":2636.01,"body":"the design and technology"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2636.01,"endTime":2640.27,"body":"teacher education blog, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2636.01,"endTime":2640.27,"body":"along with Liam Anderson, and so"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2640.3,"endTime":2643.06,"body":"is kind of getting people to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2640.3,"endTime":2643.06,"body":"write on that because it's kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2643.06,"endTime":2646.66,"body":"of got a little bit quiet as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2643.06,"endTime":2646.66,"body":"part because we and Matt have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2646.66,"endTime":2650.53,"body":"got so many things in so many"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2646.66,"endTime":2650.53,"body":"other pies. So it's great to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2650.53,"endTime":2653.11,"body":"have people like Janine on board"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2650.53,"endTime":2653.11,"body":"and kind of kicking that into"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2653.11,"endTime":2656.11,"body":"touch. Well, kicking it, kicking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2653.11,"endTime":2656.11,"body":"it forward, so we can kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2656.11,"endTime":2659.53,"body":"get some more people in that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2656.11,"endTime":2659.53,"body":"community. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2659.56,"endTime":2662.17,"body":"yeah. And just"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2659.56,"endTime":2662.17,"body":"talking about DNC more talking"},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2662.17,"endTime":2663.34,"body":"about doing absolutely."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2663.58,"endTime":2665.53,"body":"And also also"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2663.58,"endTime":2665.53,"body":"having stuff out there that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2665.53,"endTime":2668.5,"body":"people can go, I don't agree"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2665.53,"endTime":2668.5,"body":"with it. But I do agree with it,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2668.53,"endTime":2670.75,"body":"or I've done better, I've done"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2668.53,"endTime":2670.75,"body":"worse, or I've tried that it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2670.75,"endTime":2673.87,"body":"didn't work. And so yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2670.75,"endTime":2673.87,"body":"that'd be great. That'd be"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2673.87,"endTime":2675.76,"body":"great. Anyway, Janine, thanks"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2673.87,"endTime":2675.76,"body":"ever so much for your time. It's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2675.76,"endTime":2676.51,"body":"been brilliant."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2677.32,"endTime":2679.21,"body":"That's okay."},{"speaker":"Janine Pavlis","startTime":2677.32,"endTime":2679.21,"body":"Thank you so much for having me."}]}