{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":0.87,"endTime":3.06,"body":"This week's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":0.87,"endTime":3.06,"body":"podcast I'm with somebody again"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":3.06,"endTime":6.93,"body":"that I've never met yet in real"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":3.06,"endTime":6.93,"body":"life, who I should try. Remember"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":6.93,"endTime":9.63,"body":"how we actually first of all had"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":6.93,"endTime":9.63,"body":"a conversation a couple of weeks"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":9.63,"endTime":13.11,"body":"ago, and after Sue told me she"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":9.63,"endTime":13.11,"body":"didn't actually hack into my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":13.11,"endTime":15.87,"body":"diary. Apparently I sent her the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":13.11,"endTime":15.87,"body":"link. So there we go. So we've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":16.14,"endTime":19.53,"body":"booked our first conversation."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":16.14,"endTime":19.53,"body":"And as I did my usual I said,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":19.53,"endTime":21.63,"body":"Well, rather than just talking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":19.53,"endTime":21.63,"body":"to me when it comes to talk on"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":21.63,"endTime":24.33,"body":"the podcast, because I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":21.63,"endTime":24.33,"body":"teachers will be really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":24.33,"endTime":27.99,"body":"interested in what what Sue's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":24.33,"endTime":27.99,"body":"doing so I'm going to hand over"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":28.26,"endTime":31.59,"body":"to Sue Taplin, who can tell us"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":28.26,"endTime":31.59,"body":"more about herself, who she is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":31.59,"endTime":34.74,"body":"what she is, not what she is,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":31.59,"endTime":34.74,"body":"but you know, who you are, where"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":34.74,"endTime":36.96,"body":"you are, and what you do. There"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":34.74,"endTime":36.96,"body":"you go. Let me get it right off."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":37.02,"endTime":37.53,"body":"Over to you."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":37.56,"endTime":40.8,"body":"Thank you so much,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":37.56,"endTime":40.8,"body":"Alison. So I'm Sue Taplin. I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":40.8,"endTime":43.5,"body":"work for a school in HeartShare"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":40.8,"endTime":43.5,"body":"secondary school in Hartford"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":43.5,"endTime":48.48,"body":"cheer, and I head up herbs and"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":43.5,"endTime":48.48,"body":"Technology faculty. In addition"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":48.48,"endTime":53.31,"body":"to that, I think it'd be useful"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":48.48,"endTime":53.31,"body":"for when I talk about my my ID"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":53.31,"endTime":58.38,"body":"later on. I'm also a forest"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":53.31,"endTime":58.38,"body":"school leader. And I manage a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":58.38,"endTime":62.1,"body":"small woodland on the school"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":58.38,"endTime":62.1,"body":"grounds. And yeah."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":64.92,"endTime":66.15,"body":"So could I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":64.92,"endTime":66.15,"body":"curious about the fact that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":66.15,"endTime":69.6,"body":"you're a forest school leader. I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":66.15,"endTime":69.6,"body":"mean, I, we talked about forest"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":69.6,"endTime":72.54,"body":"schools at Nottingham Trent in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":69.6,"endTime":72.54,"body":"the context of primary school."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":73.8,"endTime":77.07,"body":"So can you tell me a little bit"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":73.8,"endTime":77.07,"body":"more about what you mean about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":77.07,"endTime":78.99,"body":"forest schools in your context?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":77.07,"endTime":78.99,"body":"And what"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":79.019,"endTime":81.779,"body":"Yeah, well, that was"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":79.019,"endTime":81.779,"body":"my starting point, really, I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":81.779,"endTime":84.239,"body":"don't really follow forest"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":81.779,"endTime":84.239,"body":"schools anymore. And it's a bit"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":84.239,"endTime":87.989,"body":"of a content, contentious issue,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":84.239,"endTime":87.989,"body":"because a lot of schools call"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":87.989,"endTime":90.329,"body":"themselves for schools, but"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":87.989,"endTime":90.329,"body":"they're, they're actually got to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":90.329,"endTime":93.149,"body":"train for a school leader. But"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":90.329,"endTime":93.149,"body":"they've heard about Forest"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":93.149,"endTime":95.369,"body":"School, and they think when you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":93.149,"endTime":95.369,"body":"take students outdoors, then"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":95.369,"endTime":98.459,"body":"you're doing Forest School. But"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":95.369,"endTime":98.459,"body":"that's not actually generally"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":98.459,"endTime":100.679,"body":"the case. And actually, at"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":98.459,"endTime":100.679,"body":"secondary school, it's really"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":100.679,"endTime":104.849,"body":"quite difficult to follow the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":100.679,"endTime":104.849,"body":"forest school way. And so"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":104.849,"endTime":107.489,"body":"although my leader although have"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":104.849,"endTime":107.489,"body":"been trained in that, and was"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":107.489,"endTime":109.409,"body":"trained in that probably about"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":107.489,"endTime":109.409,"body":"15 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":110.58,"endTime":114.15,"body":"I don't actually, although I'm"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":110.58,"endTime":114.15,"body":"for a school leader, I don't"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":114.18,"endTime":117.57,"body":"actually follow follow the same"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":114.18,"endTime":117.57,"body":"process. But I do encourage"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":117.57,"endTime":120.36,"body":"student teachers wherever"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":117.57,"endTime":120.36,"body":"they're subject to take their"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":120.36,"endTime":124.32,"body":"lessons outdoors. And I've been"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":120.36,"endTime":124.32,"body":"doing that for yeah, like I say"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":124.32,"endTime":127.53,"body":"about 15 years ago, what"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":124.32,"endTime":127.53,"body":"happened was I got some funding,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":127.56,"endTime":133.23,"body":"some skim funding. And I like to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":127.56,"endTime":133.23,"body":"read Greenwood woodworking. And"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":133.8,"endTime":135.6,"body":"a friend of mine, Andrew Lehmann"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":137.039,"endTime":142.589,"body":"used to run green woodworking"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":137.039,"endTime":142.589,"body":"courses. And we, we decided that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":142.589,"endTime":145.469,"body":"we were going to encourage my"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":142.589,"endTime":145.469,"body":"school to have an outdoor"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":145.469,"endTime":149.969,"body":"classroom. And so in this small"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":145.469,"endTime":149.969,"body":"woodland, we together with the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":149.969,"endTime":154.319,"body":"students and the staff, we built"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":149.969,"endTime":154.319,"body":"a roundhouse shelter, which can"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":154.319,"endTime":157.769,"body":"get about 30 students under it."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":154.319,"endTime":157.769,"body":"And that's within this sort of"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":157.769,"endTime":160.019,"body":"Acre acre and a half woodland"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":157.769,"endTime":160.019,"body":"that we've got got out the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":160.019,"endTime":163.079,"body":"school. So whatever the weather,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":160.019,"endTime":163.079,"body":"we can take students up there,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":163.079,"endTime":166.349,"body":"and we can use nature in order"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":163.079,"endTime":166.349,"body":"to support the learning."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":168.389,"endTime":170.879,"body":"So I'm making some"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":168.389,"endTime":170.879,"body":"notes while we're talking."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":170.999,"endTime":174.119,"body":"Because I'm thinking I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":170.999,"endTime":174.119,"body":"people would love to see what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":174.119,"endTime":176.399,"body":"that actually looks like. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":174.119,"endTime":176.399,"body":"assuming you've got some"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":176.399,"endTime":179.699,"body":"photographs or a website or"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":176.399,"endTime":179.699,"body":"something, we can put a link in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":179.699,"endTime":180.629,"body":"the show notes to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":182.28,"endTime":184.23,"body":"afford that say that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":182.28,"endTime":184.23,"body":"sorry, you asked me about"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":184.23,"endTime":187.47,"body":"primary schools. So yeah, you're"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":184.23,"endTime":187.47,"body":"right. It is generally it is"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":187.47,"endTime":191.43,"body":"generally primary schools that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":187.47,"endTime":191.43,"body":"that that do the forest school."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":192.3,"endTime":196.68,"body":"But I think that there's a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":192.3,"endTime":196.68,"body":"there's a gap, there's a gap for"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":196.68,"endTime":199.8,"body":"secondary school students. And"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":196.68,"endTime":199.8,"body":"there's like amazing things"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":199.8,"endTime":202.35,"body":"going on in primary school, and"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":199.8,"endTime":202.35,"body":"they get to secondary school."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":202.35,"endTime":206.25,"body":"And it's a very, very different"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":202.35,"endTime":206.25,"body":"experience. And I think that's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":206.25,"endTime":209.31,"body":"one of the things that it's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":206.25,"endTime":209.31,"body":"really important to carry on"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":209.31,"endTime":212.52,"body":"that that idea where there's not"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":209.31,"endTime":212.52,"body":"this separation between indoors"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":212.52,"endTime":215.85,"body":"outdoors, between humans and"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":212.52,"endTime":215.85,"body":"nature, you know, we're all part"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":215.85,"endTime":218.7,"body":"of the same thing. You know, if"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":215.85,"endTime":218.7,"body":"we want diver, if we want"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":218.7,"endTime":222.39,"body":"diversity, then we need to make"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":218.7,"endTime":222.39,"body":"sure that we include sort of the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":222.39,"endTime":225.18,"body":"more than the human world as"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":222.39,"endTime":225.18,"body":"well, we need to have humans our"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":225.18,"endTime":227.61,"body":"more than the human world and to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":225.18,"endTime":227.61,"body":"make sure that the learning is"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":227.61,"endTime":228.66,"body":"really, really relevant."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":229.71,"endTime":233.46,"body":"Yeah. So. So for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":229.71,"endTime":233.46,"body":"those people who aren't familiar"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":233.46,"endTime":236.67,"body":"with forest schools, can you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":233.46,"endTime":236.67,"body":"tell us a little bit about it,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":236.67,"endTime":239.76,"body":"and then also, then the spin on"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":236.67,"endTime":239.76,"body":"how you've taken it and what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":239.76,"endTime":240.3,"body":"you're doing?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":240.389,"endTime":243.839,"body":"Yeah, so for schools"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":240.389,"endTime":243.839,"body":"is when the teacher generally"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":243.839,"endTime":248.849,"body":"take students outdoors, they act"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":243.839,"endTime":248.849,"body":"as a facilitator. And is it"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":248.849,"endTime":253.139,"body":"normally a two hour session with"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":248.849,"endTime":253.139,"body":"a break in between, and really,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":253.139,"endTime":257.219,"body":"whether if you've only got one"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":253.139,"endTime":257.219,"body":"tree in school, or if you've got"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":257.219,"endTime":260.609,"body":"like me lucky enough to have a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":257.219,"endTime":260.609,"body":"small woodland, the students go"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":260.609,"endTime":263.519,"body":"out there and they lead the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":260.609,"endTime":263.519,"body":"learning. And the teacher"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":263.519,"endTime":266.939,"body":"facilitates that. So they could"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":263.519,"endTime":266.939,"body":"be doing maths or English or"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":266.939,"endTime":272.039,"body":"history that all takes that all"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":266.939,"endTime":272.039,"body":"takes place outside. And the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":272.039,"endTime":274.559,"body":"forest school would encourage"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":272.039,"endTime":274.559,"body":"students to use tools that would"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":274.559,"endTime":279.089,"body":"encourage students to learn how"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":274.559,"endTime":279.089,"body":"to make fires. Yeah, so that's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":279.089,"endTime":281.909,"body":"how it works. And actually I've"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":279.089,"endTime":281.909,"body":"been to a school in in North"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":281.909,"endTime":286.799,"body":"London, where they literally had"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":281.909,"endTime":286.799,"body":"a car park with a one tree in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":286.799,"endTime":290.879,"body":"it. And the teacher there has"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":286.799,"endTime":290.879,"body":"done incredible work in order to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":290.879,"endTime":293.849,"body":"make sure that the the parents"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":290.879,"endTime":293.849,"body":"can see what the students are"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":293.849,"endTime":296.759,"body":"doing at this forest school, and"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":293.849,"endTime":296.759,"body":"they raise money to get their"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":296.759,"endTime":300.599,"body":"first firepit so the students"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":296.759,"endTime":300.599,"body":"could have a fire as well. And"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":300.599,"endTime":304.169,"body":"they, they get to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":300.599,"endTime":304.169,"body":"have this free time outside"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":304.199,"endTime":308.969,"body":"where they lead their their own"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":304.199,"endTime":308.969,"body":"learning. But that doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":308.969,"endTime":310.079,"body":"So when in secondary school,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":310.95,"endTime":314.28,"body":"right, okay, so So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":310.95,"endTime":314.28,"body":"how do you modify it to fit"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":314.28,"endTime":314.52,"body":"within."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":314.76,"endTime":318.03,"body":"So how I would find"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":314.76,"endTime":318.03,"body":"that is I make sure I can"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":318.03,"endTime":320.55,"body":"support teachers to be able to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":318.03,"endTime":320.55,"body":"fit that within their one hour"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":320.55,"endTime":326.16,"body":"lesson time that they can get to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":320.55,"endTime":326.16,"body":"this space and back and be able"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":326.16,"endTime":328.35,"body":"to make connections with the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":326.16,"endTime":328.35,"body":"curriculum, because for a school"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":328.35,"endTime":329.91,"body":"doesn't necessarily do that."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":331.65,"endTime":334.26,"body":"Yeah, okay. Give"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":331.65,"endTime":334.26,"body":"us an example."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":334.5,"endTime":337.89,"body":"So for example, a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":334.5,"endTime":337.89,"body":"math lesson, they may be doing"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":337.89,"endTime":342.06,"body":"trigonometry. And they would go"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":337.89,"endTime":342.06,"body":"to the outdoor portion, and they"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":342.06,"endTime":347.85,"body":"would try and work out the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":342.06,"endTime":347.85,"body":"height of a tree. Yeah, or, or"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":347.85,"endTime":350.16,"body":"music. Listen, I've had"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":347.85,"endTime":350.16,"body":"incredible music lessons at the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":350.16,"endTime":354.75,"body":"outdoor classroom, because it"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":350.16,"endTime":354.75,"body":"allows for a range of spaces for"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":354.75,"endTime":358.68,"body":"different learners. So there may"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":354.75,"endTime":358.68,"body":"be really confident students"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":358.68,"endTime":361.32,"body":"that go out and they're going to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":358.68,"endTime":361.32,"body":"bang the drum and they're going"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":361.32,"endTime":365.25,"body":"to sing loud, or probably do a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":361.32,"endTime":365.25,"body":"dance in a big space. But"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":365.25,"endTime":368.13,"body":"there's other people that that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":365.25,"endTime":368.13,"body":"doesn't come as easy, and they"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":368.13,"endTime":370.47,"body":"don't feel as confident,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":368.13,"endTime":370.47,"body":"although they really want to be"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":370.47,"endTime":373.32,"body":"engaged in the learning. And"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":370.47,"endTime":373.32,"body":"they'll find themselves a space"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":373.32,"endTime":375.96,"body":"maybe with a couple of other"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":373.32,"endTime":375.96,"body":"students and, and they can"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":375.96,"endTime":380.31,"body":"record something quite quietly."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":375.96,"endTime":380.31,"body":"And, but but they're not getting"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":380.31,"endTime":383.04,"body":"disturbed by the other students"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":380.31,"endTime":383.04,"body":"that and it's the same for all"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":383.04,"endTime":385.95,"body":"lessons, really, it really just"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":383.04,"endTime":385.95,"body":"gives a really good space in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":385.95,"endTime":389.28,"body":"which the the students can learn"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":385.95,"endTime":389.28,"body":"and take part."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":390.27,"endTime":392.7,"body":"And so do do most"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":390.27,"endTime":392.7,"body":"of the subjects in your school,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":392.7,"endTime":394.65,"body":"then go and use the outdoor"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":392.7,"endTime":394.65,"body":"classroom."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":394.89,"endTime":400.02,"body":"Yeah, um, I'd like"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":394.89,"endTime":400.02,"body":"to say yes, but it's, it's a big"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":400.02,"endTime":404.97,"body":"push. We've got work going on at"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":400.02,"endTime":404.97,"body":"the moment, we have like, CPD,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":404.97,"endTime":407.67,"body":"where where teachers take part"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":404.97,"endTime":407.67,"body":"in different sessions that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":407.7,"endTime":412.17,"body":"middle leaders put on. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":407.7,"endTime":412.17,"body":"doing one on each connection and"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":412.17,"endTime":415.62,"body":"place. I've got about four"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":412.17,"endTime":415.62,"body":"teachers involved in it at the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":415.62,"endTime":420.84,"body":"moment. But over the last 1015"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":415.62,"endTime":420.84,"body":"years, I would say every subject"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":420.84,"endTime":425.1,"body":"at some point, has taken"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":420.84,"endTime":425.1,"body":"lessons, lessons outdoors, I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":425.1,"endTime":427.8,"body":"would love it to be you know,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":425.1,"endTime":427.8,"body":"push further in school, I think"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":427.8,"endTime":431.13,"body":"sometimes, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":427.8,"endTime":431.13,"body":"certain certain things that we"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":431.16,"endTime":435.09,"body":"we push in schools, and I would"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":431.16,"endTime":435.09,"body":"love it, if there was a real"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":435.09,"endTime":438.81,"body":"desire to get nature connection,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":435.09,"endTime":438.81,"body":"pushed in school."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":439.92,"endTime":442.02,"body":"So let's bring it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":439.92,"endTime":442.02,"body":"to the context, Tonto context,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":442.02,"endTime":445.5,"body":"design and technology then so"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":442.02,"endTime":445.5,"body":"what some of the things that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":445.5,"endTime":449.07,"body":"you're doing within design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":445.5,"endTime":449.07,"body":"technology using the outdoor"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":449.07,"endTime":449.58,"body":"classroom."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":450.24,"endTime":453.48,"body":"Today, yeah, today,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":450.24,"endTime":453.48,"body":"I took a class outside because a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":453.48,"endTime":457.38,"body":"year age group, we're thinking"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":453.48,"endTime":457.38,"body":"about biodiversity. And we're"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":457.38,"endTime":460.77,"body":"thinking about how can we"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":457.38,"endTime":460.77,"body":"encourage that in our gardens or"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":460.77,"endTime":466.65,"body":"balconies at home. And it's a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":460.77,"endTime":466.65,"body":"real noticing lesson. And so we"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":466.65,"endTime":469.71,"body":"go outdoors, and I show them"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":466.65,"endTime":469.71,"body":"first of all show the difference"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":469.71,"endTime":473.37,"body":"between a hardwood and softwood"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":469.71,"endTime":473.37,"body":"tree. And quite often is it"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":473.37,"endTime":476.43,"body":"quite incredible things that I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":473.37,"endTime":476.43,"body":"grew up just kind of knowing"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":476.55,"endTime":479.58,"body":"students don't seem to have that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":476.55,"endTime":479.58,"body":"same knowledge anymore. So I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":479.58,"endTime":483.06,"body":"hold up a pine cone to talk"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":479.58,"endTime":483.06,"body":"about, you know, how the seeds"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":483.06,"endTime":485.82,"body":"spread, and when the pine cones"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":483.06,"endTime":485.82,"body":"open up, and how they're an"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":485.82,"endTime":489.12,"body":"incredible smart material. And"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":485.82,"endTime":489.12,"body":"most students think that's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":489.15,"endTime":494.22,"body":"actually an acorn. And so you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":489.15,"endTime":494.22,"body":"know, I tell them about that,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":494.28,"endTime":496.68,"body":"then there's a sycamore tree"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":494.28,"endTime":496.68,"body":"next to them, and I'd show them"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":496.68,"endTime":499.14,"body":"the difference between the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":496.68,"endTime":499.14,"body":"seeds, the difference between"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":499.14,"endTime":502.59,"body":"what makes a hardwood and what"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":499.14,"endTime":502.59,"body":"makes us off wood, and then led"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":502.59,"endTime":507.0,"body":"them out to up to the outdoor"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":502.59,"endTime":507.0,"body":"classroom. And on the way they"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":507.0,"endTime":510.09,"body":"just noticed, they just observe"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":507.0,"endTime":510.09,"body":"what's going on. So what are the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":510.09,"endTime":512.22,"body":"things that attract the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":510.09,"endTime":512.22,"body":"butterflies? What are the things"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":512.22,"endTime":517.29,"body":"that attract the bees, so that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":512.22,"endTime":517.29,"body":"walk all the way up to the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":517.29,"endTime":519.84,"body":"outdoor classroom is like a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":517.29,"endTime":519.84,"body":"really valuable experience as"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":519.84,"endTime":524.1,"body":"well. So we go into the outdoor"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":519.84,"endTime":524.1,"body":"classroom and got a little bag"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":524.1,"endTime":527.19,"body":"each and they collect things"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":524.1,"endTime":527.19,"body":"that they're going to, they"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":527.19,"endTime":529.65,"body":"think might help with their"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":527.19,"endTime":529.65,"body":"research might help with their"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":529.68,"endTime":532.35,"body":"sort of final product, how"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":529.68,"endTime":532.35,"body":"they're going to encourage"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":532.59,"endTime":535.89,"body":"wildlife into into that space,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":532.59,"endTime":535.89,"body":"are into the products that you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":535.89,"endTime":536.88,"body":"want to design and make."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":538.2,"endTime":540.45,"body":"And so you'll, by"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":538.2,"endTime":540.45,"body":"the sound of it will continue to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":540.45,"endTime":543.12,"body":"use that space for the whole of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":540.45,"endTime":543.12,"body":"that that unit of work. Is that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":543.12,"endTime":543.54,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":544.11,"endTime":546.51,"body":"Yeah, so sometimes"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":544.11,"endTime":546.51,"body":"we're in the workshop, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":546.72,"endTime":550.83,"body":"we go outside, you've got to be"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":546.72,"endTime":550.83,"body":"quite spontaneous sometimes."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":550.83,"endTime":553.68,"body":"Because, you know, there could"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":550.83,"endTime":553.68,"body":"have been a thunderstorm today."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":553.68,"endTime":556.11,"body":"And then it wouldn't have been"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":553.68,"endTime":556.11,"body":"appropriate to take the students"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":556.11,"endTime":559.89,"body":"outside. But I think when you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":556.11,"endTime":559.89,"body":"when you've got a school that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":559.89,"endTime":563.52,"body":"gives you opportunity to work on"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":559.89,"endTime":563.52,"body":"school grounds, it really opens"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":563.52,"endTime":566.67,"body":"up this idea of, you know, not"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":563.52,"endTime":566.67,"body":"staying in the classroom, you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":566.67,"endTime":570.3,"body":"don't have to do fancy trips"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":566.67,"endTime":570.3,"body":"that are in tropical places, you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":570.3,"endTime":574.02,"body":"can just take them, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":570.3,"endTime":574.02,"body":"within a few seconds outside,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":574.29,"endTime":576.63,"body":"but they can get the same"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":574.29,"endTime":576.63,"body":"affordances they can get the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":576.63,"endTime":580.32,"body":"same benefits as going on a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":576.63,"endTime":580.32,"body":"trip. You know, when we know"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":580.32,"endTime":582.6,"body":"there's been a lot of research"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":580.32,"endTime":582.6,"body":"about certain students or"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":582.69,"endTime":585.96,"body":"certain demographics that don't"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":582.69,"endTime":585.96,"body":"go out on trips anymore. But if"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":585.96,"endTime":588.39,"body":"we can open up our school"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":585.96,"endTime":588.39,"body":"grounds, then those same"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":588.39,"endTime":591.42,"body":"students can benefit from that."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":588.39,"endTime":591.42,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":591.45,"endTime":592.59,"body":"if they haven't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":591.45,"endTime":592.59,"body":"been sold off."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":593.67,"endTime":596.07,"body":"Well, that's a whole"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":593.67,"endTime":596.07,"body":"nother stories is a whole other"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":596.07,"endTime":596.64,"body":"story. Let's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":596.64,"endTime":599.73,"body":"open up that that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":596.64,"endTime":599.73,"body":"can of worms. You just said"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":599.73,"endTime":602.85,"body":"something No, that kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":599.73,"endTime":602.85,"body":"sparked me. What is the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":602.85,"endTime":604.02,"body":"demographic of your school?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":606.42,"endTime":610.89,"body":"Like, it's it's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":606.42,"endTime":610.89,"body":"mixed? Yeah, we're in a leafy"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":610.89,"endTime":615.42,"body":"brushy we're really lucky in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":610.89,"endTime":615.42,"body":"terms of our school grounds,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":615.42,"endTime":620.67,"body":"we've got about 42 acres of"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":615.42,"endTime":620.67,"body":"space. Wow. Yeah. But, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":620.67,"endTime":623.91,"body":"we're, we're very lucky. But I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":620.67,"endTime":623.91,"body":"can see that that's not always"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":623.91,"endTime":627.42,"body":"going to be the case. You know,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":623.91,"endTime":627.42,"body":"there's lots of funding to have"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":627.42,"endTime":631.5,"body":"things like 3d pictures, 4g"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":627.42,"endTime":631.5,"body":"pictures, rather than actually"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":631.5,"endTime":636.12,"body":"maintaining the space, the green"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":631.5,"endTime":636.12,"body":"space that we have, which, you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":636.12,"endTime":639.6,"body":"know, it's really frustrating,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":636.12,"endTime":639.6,"body":"because why would we want to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":639.63,"endTime":642.72,"body":"put, you know, an astroturf or"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":639.63,"endTime":642.72,"body":"whatever it is pitch on a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":642.93,"endTime":646.59,"body":"beautiful natural space, which,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":642.93,"endTime":646.59,"body":"you know, suffocates all the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":646.59,"endTime":650.22,"body":"wildlife underneath and actually"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":646.59,"endTime":650.22,"body":"puts carcinogens into our our"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":650.22,"endTime":655.08,"body":"watercourse. But, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":650.22,"endTime":655.08,"body":"that's where the funding is. And"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":655.08,"endTime":656.28,"body":"that's a frustration."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":656.819,"endTime":661.139,"body":"Yes, yes. So So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":656.819,"endTime":661.139,"body":"you've kind of got so. So that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":661.139,"endTime":663.209,"body":"whole thing about demographics"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":661.139,"endTime":663.209,"body":"and taken out into outdoor"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":663.209,"endTime":665.579,"body":"space, it's kind of it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":663.209,"endTime":665.579,"body":"really crucial, I think, I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":665.579,"endTime":667.139,"body":"you're absolutely right, there's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":665.579,"endTime":667.139,"body":"quite a lot of research isn't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":667.139,"endTime":670.949,"body":"there about the benefits of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":667.139,"endTime":670.949,"body":"school trips, taking children"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":670.949,"endTime":674.099,"body":"out of their sort of normal,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":670.949,"endTime":674.099,"body":"everyday environment, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":674.099,"endTime":678.359,"body":"exposing them to different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":674.099,"endTime":678.359,"body":"different experiences. So that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":678.359,"endTime":680.309,"body":"kind of so if you've been"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":678.359,"endTime":680.309,"body":"talking about the fact, there's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":680.309,"endTime":682.619,"body":"been a lot of research done,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":680.309,"endTime":682.619,"body":"that kind of leads us quite"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":682.619,"endTime":685.409,"body":"nicely on to your research that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":682.619,"endTime":685.409,"body":"and which is kind of the first"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":685.409,"endTime":689.309,"body":"conversation we had a few weeks"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":685.409,"endTime":689.309,"body":"ago. So you're doing an AD D,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":689.309,"endTime":693.329,"body":"which is a professional"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":689.309,"endTime":693.329,"body":"doctorate. And and the last time"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":693.329,"endTime":696.449,"body":"we spoke, I wrote it down in my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":693.329,"endTime":696.449,"body":"notes, you were doing place and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":696.449,"endTime":699.059,"body":"nature connection at heart,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":696.449,"endTime":699.059,"body":"Bucha University?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":699.179,"endTime":700.889,"body":"That's right. That's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":699.179,"endTime":700.889,"body":"it. That's exactly what I'm"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":700.889,"endTime":702.179,"body":"doing. I've just"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":702.96,"endTime":705.78,"body":"explained to us"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":702.96,"endTime":705.78,"body":"all what that means. So what"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":705.78,"endTime":710.31,"body":"does that mean? So"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":705.78,"endTime":710.31,"body":"place is, for me, it's our"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":710.31,"endTime":715.89,"body":"school grounds. And considering"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":710.31,"endTime":715.89,"body":"the unique things that make our"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":715.89,"endTime":720.63,"body":"school, in terms of the natural"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":715.89,"endTime":720.63,"body":"environment, what it is, right,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":720.69,"endTime":725.61,"body":"and how those qualities, how"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":720.69,"endTime":725.61,"body":"those affordances can support"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":725.61,"endTime":729.9,"body":"the learning of our students."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":725.61,"endTime":729.9,"body":"Right, and how it helps build"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":729.9,"endTime":735.42,"body":"community, how it makes things"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":729.9,"endTime":735.42,"body":"relevant. Yeah, and then the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":735.42,"endTime":738.63,"body":"nature connection is really what"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":735.42,"endTime":738.63,"body":"I've been talking about already."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":739.08,"endTime":744.81,"body":"And I think I've just had my"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":739.08,"endTime":744.81,"body":"registration document submitted,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":744.81,"endTime":747.81,"body":"and I'll have my viva. And then"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":744.81,"endTime":747.81,"body":"since having that I've realised"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":747.81,"endTime":752.94,"body":"I'm sort of committing too much."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":747.81,"endTime":752.94,"body":"And I think place might have to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":753.24,"endTime":758.61,"body":"just take a bit of a pause for"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":753.24,"endTime":758.61,"body":"now. And I'm really going to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":759.9,"endTime":763.29,"body":"focus on nature connection,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":759.9,"endTime":763.29,"body":"because I think there's a real"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":763.53,"endTime":769.56,"body":"direct link with design and"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":763.53,"endTime":769.56,"body":"technology. No, I was just gonna"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":769.56,"endTime":769.95,"body":"say,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":769.98,"endTime":776.43,"body":"Okay. So there's a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":769.98,"endTime":776.43,"body":"couple of things. Firstly, can"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":776.43,"endTime":778.17,"body":"you define affordances?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":778.2,"endTime":783.09,"body":"Yeah. So the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":778.2,"endTime":783.09,"body":"affordances means the quality of"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":783.09,"endTime":787.53,"body":"a space in order or all the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":783.09,"endTime":787.53,"body":"unique things within that space,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":787.98,"endTime":794.52,"body":"that that offer something to the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":787.98,"endTime":794.52,"body":"learning. So say, for example, I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":794.52,"endTime":799.14,"body":"talked about the the, the pine"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":794.52,"endTime":799.14,"body":"tree and the sycamore that we'll"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":799.14,"endTime":802.05,"body":"be using the affordances of the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":799.14,"endTime":802.05,"body":"space, but it doesn't just"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":802.05,"endTime":805.8,"body":"happen in diente. It could"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":802.05,"endTime":805.8,"body":"happen in history lessons in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":805.8,"endTime":809.73,"body":"music lessons. So the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":805.8,"endTime":809.73,"body":"affordances would also be about"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":809.82,"endTime":811.98,"body":"how it created a different"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":809.82,"endTime":811.98,"body":"environment, a different"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":811.98,"endTime":814.89,"body":"atmosphere. So the students"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":811.98,"endTime":814.89,"body":"could have different, almost"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":814.89,"endTime":816.66,"body":"different venues to work in as"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":814.89,"endTime":816.66,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":817.32,"endTime":819.48,"body":"Right? Okay. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":817.32,"endTime":819.48,"body":"so I've been reading a paper"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":819.48,"endTime":823.26,"body":"that's titled affordances of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":819.48,"endTime":823.26,"body":"models and modelling a study of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":823.26,"endTime":826.2,"body":"full technology design projects"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":823.26,"endTime":826.2,"body":"in the Swedish secondary school."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":826.68,"endTime":830.85,"body":"And exactly title pays a bit,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":826.68,"endTime":830.85,"body":"isn't it, but at least I kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":830.88,"endTime":833.58,"body":"got an idea. It's about models"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":830.88,"endTime":833.58,"body":"and modelling. And so taking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":833.58,"endTime":836.55,"body":"that idea about affordances,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":833.58,"endTime":836.55,"body":"it's the benefits of models and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":836.55,"endTime":839.61,"body":"modelling in the context of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":836.55,"endTime":839.61,"body":"design and technology. So it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":839.61,"endTime":843.06,"body":"the benefits of that nature"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":839.61,"endTime":843.06,"body":"space, and what that brings and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":843.06,"endTime":850.92,"body":"what it can bring to learning."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":843.06,"endTime":850.92,"body":"Okay. Okay. So your study is now"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":850.92,"endTime":855.93,"body":"more focusing on the nature?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":850.92,"endTime":855.93,"body":"Yes, connection, correct. Right."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":856.5,"endTime":859.08,"body":"Is it primarily is in the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":856.5,"endTime":859.08,"body":"context of design and technology"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":859.08,"endTime":859.92,"body":"or any subject."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":860.52,"endTime":866.79,"body":"So my, my, my, my"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":860.52,"endTime":866.79,"body":"pilot study was on any subject,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":866.82,"endTime":870.03,"body":"but I think through that, that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":866.82,"endTime":870.03,"body":"experience, and sort of the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":870.03,"endTime":873.72,"body":"learning I've got from that, is"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":870.03,"endTime":873.72,"body":"that sometimes I feel it's a bit"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":873.72,"endTime":877.83,"body":"too much to ask of people in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":873.72,"endTime":877.83,"body":"terms of gaining research or"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":877.83,"endTime":881.67,"body":"getting my getting the data. And"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":877.83,"endTime":881.67,"body":"actually, I am not that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":881.67,"endTime":885.09,"body":"knowledgeable on other people's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":881.67,"endTime":885.09,"body":"subjects. And so I'm picking"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":885.09,"endTime":889.65,"body":"their specification and their"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":885.09,"endTime":889.65,"body":"programmes or study is not so"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":889.65,"endTime":893.13,"body":"easy for me, me to do. And so"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":889.65,"endTime":893.13,"body":"one of the sessions we did,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":893.13,"endTime":895.95,"body":"people got out their curriculum"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":893.13,"endTime":895.95,"body":"and they were trying to work out"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":895.95,"endTime":898.2,"body":"ways in which they could use the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":895.95,"endTime":898.2,"body":"affordances of our school"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":898.2,"endTime":898.8,"body":"grounds."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":900.329,"endTime":901.079,"body":"And,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":902.129,"endTime":904.829,"body":"and yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":902.129,"endTime":904.829,"body":"worked that worked really well."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":904.829,"endTime":910.259,"body":"But I sometimes feel that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":904.829,"endTime":910.259,"body":"teachers feel just going outside"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":910.259,"endTime":913.619,"body":"is like enough is quite"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":910.259,"endTime":913.619,"body":"overwhelming to do something"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":913.619,"endTime":917.429,"body":"quite, quite different. You"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":913.619,"endTime":917.429,"body":"know, I've had one teacher where"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":917.429,"endTime":920.699,"body":"they actually, we're so worried"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":917.429,"endTime":920.699,"body":"they really wanted to go"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":920.699,"endTime":923.969,"body":"outdoors, but they were really"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":920.699,"endTime":923.969,"body":"worried about going outdoors."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":923.969,"endTime":926.879,"body":"They were like, how's the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":923.969,"endTime":926.879,"body":"seating plan gonna work? You"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":926.879,"endTime":929.369,"body":"know, how am I gonna get"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":926.879,"endTime":929.369,"body":"behaviour? How are they going to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":929.369,"endTime":932.369,"body":"come back. And so we actually"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":929.369,"endTime":932.369,"body":"got all the students to carry"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":932.369,"endTime":936.149,"body":"their chairs up to the outdoor"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":932.369,"endTime":936.149,"body":"classroom, and he sat them in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":936.149,"endTime":940.589,"body":"their seating plan, so that he"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":936.149,"endTime":940.589,"body":"felt he could still manage their"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":940.589,"endTime":942.809,"body":"behaviour, they will be in the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":940.589,"endTime":942.809,"body":"seating plan. So that's the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":942.809,"endTime":948.629,"body":"school policy. Yeah. And so it's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":942.809,"endTime":948.629,"body":"a big step for some teachers."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":948.629,"endTime":949.349,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":949.47,"endTime":951.81,"body":"yeah. Well, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":949.47,"endTime":951.81,"body":"just reading somebody's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":951.81,"endTime":955.74,"body":"doctorate work at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":951.81,"endTime":955.74,"body":"for an assessment of doing and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":955.74,"endTime":957.9,"body":"they're talking about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":955.74,"endTime":957.9,"body":"professional developments."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":960.54,"endTime":965.73,"body":"Apologies advance to Matt, if"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":960.54,"endTime":965.73,"body":"I'm getting this wrong. It"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":966.66,"endTime":971.13,"body":"professional development."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":966.66,"endTime":971.13,"body":"Courses, contradictions causes"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":971.13,"endTime":977.07,"body":"us to think about whether what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":971.13,"endTime":977.07,"body":"we're being told to do is in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":977.07,"endTime":981.87,"body":"contradiction to what we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":977.07,"endTime":981.87,"body":"believe. And so, or what we've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":981.87,"endTime":985.92,"body":"been indoctrinated to believe."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":981.87,"endTime":985.92,"body":"So thinking about this teacher"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":985.92,"endTime":992.37,"body":"and the seating plans, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":985.92,"endTime":992.37,"body":"Yeah, so you're kind of trying"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":992.37,"endTime":994.68,"body":"to get them to break down some"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":992.37,"endTime":994.68,"body":"of that. And I suppose one"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":994.68,"endTime":996.72,"body":"comfortable way of doing that is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":994.68,"endTime":996.72,"body":"thinking Well, if that's what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":996.72,"endTime":999.63,"body":"the teacher can cope with, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":996.72,"endTime":999.63,"body":"that's where it's at for them."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":999.66,"endTime":1003.23,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. Rather than"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":999.66,"endTime":1003.23,"body":"undermining every part of their"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1003.23,"endTime":1007.79,"body":"belief, got it system, or"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1003.23,"endTime":1007.79,"body":"education, and you can't"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1007.79,"endTime":1011.03,"body":"expect teachers,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1007.79,"endTime":1011.03,"body":"teachers that don't generally go"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1011.03,"endTime":1013.19,"body":"outside, it's not in their"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1011.03,"endTime":1013.19,"body":"interest, it's not something"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1013.19,"endTime":1017.06,"body":"they do outside of school, to,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1013.19,"endTime":1017.06,"body":"to make them really understand"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1017.06,"endTime":1021.8,"body":"the affordances of a place. I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1017.06,"endTime":1021.8,"body":"mean, that's, you can see why"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1021.8,"endTime":1024.47,"body":"people don't want to go outside,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1021.8,"endTime":1024.47,"body":"if I'm asking that of them,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1024.74,"endTime":1030.83,"body":"because the thing is far too"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1024.74,"endTime":1030.83,"body":"complex. Yeah, so I just want to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1031.13,"endTime":1034.85,"body":"break it down a bit and make it"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1031.13,"endTime":1034.85,"body":"more inclusive."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1035.63,"endTime":1037.28,"body":"So that was your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1035.63,"endTime":1037.28,"body":"pilot study where you've worked"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1037.28,"endTime":1041.3,"body":"with different teachers from"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1037.28,"endTime":1041.3,"body":"different subjects? Yeah. So for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1041.3,"endTime":1044.87,"body":"your I wouldn't say actual"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1041.3,"endTime":1044.87,"body":"study, but I don't mean it like"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1044.87,"endTime":1047.57,"body":"that, you know, what I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1044.87,"endTime":1047.57,"body":"your main study? Are you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1047.57,"endTime":1049.43,"body":"focusing on design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1047.57,"endTime":1049.43,"body":"technology? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1049.46,"endTime":1051.41,"body":"that's, that's where"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1049.46,"endTime":1051.41,"body":"I'm at, at the moment, designer"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1051.41,"endTime":1055.49,"body":"technology, I think, because,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1051.41,"endTime":1055.49,"body":"you know, I think it's really"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1055.49,"endTime":1058.22,"body":"important time, there's lots of"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1055.49,"endTime":1058.22,"body":"changes about to happen. And I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1058.22,"endTime":1061.88,"body":"know you've written about them,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1058.22,"endTime":1061.88,"body":"you know, it scares me, you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1061.88,"endTime":1064.31,"body":"know, the potential that could"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1061.88,"endTime":1064.31,"body":"happen in design and technology."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1065.24,"endTime":1068.12,"body":"You know, design technology"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1065.24,"endTime":1068.12,"body":"should be about I believe,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1068.12,"endTime":1072.59,"body":"anyway, it's about that the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1068.12,"endTime":1072.59,"body":"combination of, of skill and"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1072.59,"endTime":1075.2,"body":"knowledge, you know, that's,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1072.59,"endTime":1075.2,"body":"that's the brilliant thing that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1075.2,"endTime":1080.57,"body":"design and technology brings"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1075.2,"endTime":1080.57,"body":"body and mind and design,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1080.57,"endTime":1083.51,"body":"technology shouldn't have a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1080.57,"endTime":1083.51,"body":"dualistic approach, it should be"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1083.51,"endTime":1087.35,"body":"every bringing everything"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1083.51,"endTime":1087.35,"body":"together. And they're linked to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1087.35,"endTime":1091.16,"body":"nature that the the materials"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1087.35,"endTime":1091.16,"body":"that we use are so important,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1091.67,"endTime":1096.56,"body":"hands on in the flow, working in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1091.67,"endTime":1096.56,"body":"the workshop, whether that's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1096.56,"endTime":1100.28,"body":"textiles, whether that's working"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1096.56,"endTime":1100.28,"body":"with timbers, with papers, and"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1100.28,"endTime":1104.06,"body":"boards, getting a sense of those"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1100.28,"endTime":1104.06,"body":"materials, when you hold them in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1104.06,"endTime":1107.48,"body":"the hands, you know, when when"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1104.06,"endTime":1107.48,"body":"you're cutting a piece of pine"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1107.48,"endTime":1111.17,"body":"or a piece of manufactured board"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1107.48,"endTime":1111.17,"body":"or a piece of oak? How does that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1111.17,"endTime":1113.9,"body":"feel? And what does that lead"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1111.17,"endTime":1113.9,"body":"you? What decisions does that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1113.9,"endTime":1117.95,"body":"lead you to do? Because we're"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1113.9,"endTime":1117.95,"body":"not gonna make pro environmental"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1117.95,"endTime":1122.0,"body":"decisions. If we're sat on a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1117.95,"endTime":1122.0,"body":"computer. They're not, they're"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1122.0,"endTime":1126.17,"body":"not going to be, they're not"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1122.0,"endTime":1126.17,"body":"going to be embodied feelings."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1126.41,"endTime":1129.29,"body":"And you get those by being"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1126.41,"endTime":1129.29,"body":"directly connected from"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1129.29,"endTime":1133.73,"body":"something not an abstract"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1129.29,"endTime":1133.73,"body":"experience, that's not going to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1133.73,"endTime":1138.44,"body":"lead to pro environmental"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1133.73,"endTime":1138.44,"body":"decisions being made."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1139.009,"endTime":1140.869,"body":"So one of the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1139.009,"endTime":1140.869,"body":"underpinning aspects of this is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1140.869,"endTime":1142.789,"body":"about pro environmental"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1140.869,"endTime":1142.789,"body":"decisions."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1148.25,"endTime":1152.15,"body":"I think for me, it's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1148.25,"endTime":1152.15,"body":"about how we treat the world,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1152.21,"endTime":1156.02,"body":"how we treat people, how we"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1152.21,"endTime":1156.02,"body":"treat, so how we treat humans,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1156.14,"endTime":1159.59,"body":"how we treat them all in human."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1156.14,"endTime":1159.59,"body":"I think for me, it's more of a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1159.59,"endTime":1162.56,"body":"moral issue. And I think"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1159.59,"endTime":1162.56,"body":"sometimes we can get a bit"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1162.56,"endTime":1168.02,"body":"sidetracked if we focus on"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1162.56,"endTime":1168.02,"body":"sustainability. Or, like you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1168.02,"endTime":1173.03,"body":"say, environmental decisions, I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1168.02,"endTime":1173.03,"body":"think it kind of sometimes can"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1173.03,"endTime":1177.02,"body":"become like, a bit of an excuse"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1173.03,"endTime":1177.02,"body":"or a bit other. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1177.17,"endTime":1179.36,"body":"sometimes the word"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1177.17,"endTime":1179.36,"body":"sustainability what does that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1179.36,"endTime":1182.78,"body":"actually mean? Is it just so"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1179.36,"endTime":1182.78,"body":"humans can take more from the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1182.78,"endTime":1183.71,"body":"natural world?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1183.77,"endTime":1185.99,"body":"Oh, yes. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1183.77,"endTime":1185.99,"body":"that's a good point. Good point."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1186.68,"endTime":1190.37,"body":"And it's not it's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1186.68,"endTime":1190.37,"body":"not just up for the taking."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1190.58,"endTime":1194.81,"body":"Because if we just take from"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1190.58,"endTime":1194.81,"body":"nature, constantly, what we"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1194.81,"endTime":1197.24,"body":"saying when people don't"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1194.81,"endTime":1197.24,"body":"actually have a voice we just"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1197.24,"endTime":1198.02,"body":"take from them."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1198.8,"endTime":1201.26,"body":"Yes, you So good"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1198.8,"endTime":1201.26,"body":"point,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1201.35,"endTime":1204.32,"body":"where are we truly"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1201.35,"endTime":1204.32,"body":"diverse? Unless we include the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1204.32,"endTime":1206.81,"body":"whole of the world? Or it's just"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1204.32,"endTime":1206.81,"body":"some things, there's some people"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1206.81,"endTime":1208.64,"body":"that can be part of this"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1206.81,"endTime":1208.64,"body":"diversity?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1209.96,"endTime":1212.0,"body":"Well, it's some"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1209.96,"endTime":1212.0,"body":"things and some people, isn't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1212.0,"endTime":1215.06,"body":"it? Really? You know, let's,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1212.0,"endTime":1215.06,"body":"let's be, let's be frank about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1215.27,"endTime":1218.06,"body":"that. Yeah. And it's not the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1215.27,"endTime":1218.06,"body":"it's not a bottomless pit, is it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1218.06,"endTime":1222.05,"body":"really sustain? Is does that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1218.06,"endTime":1222.05,"body":"mean you can live for longer?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1222.05,"endTime":1224.99,"body":"Or? Or does that mean, we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1222.05,"endTime":1224.99,"body":"coexist?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1225.02,"endTime":1228.02,"body":"Maybe it's just mine"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1225.02,"endTime":1228.02,"body":"a different product. So maybe"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1228.02,"endTime":1230.45,"body":"instead of getting cold, we just"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1228.02,"endTime":1230.45,"body":"get lithium and then tell"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1230.45,"endTime":1234.77,"body":"everyone it's, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1230.45,"endTime":1234.77,"body":"million substance? You know,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1234.77,"endTime":1237.59,"body":"that sort of thing that worries"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1234.77,"endTime":1237.59,"body":"me? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1237.68,"endTime":1239.3,"body":"yeah, it's been"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1237.68,"endTime":1239.3,"body":"quite a few articles about that."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1240.26,"endTime":1244.01,"body":"But you said, you said something"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1240.26,"endTime":1244.01,"body":"else there about my mind's gone"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1244.01,"endTime":1247.07,"body":"blank. So I've just been looking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1244.01,"endTime":1247.07,"body":"for a book. Because you were"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1247.07,"endTime":1252.77,"body":"talking about, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1247.07,"endTime":1252.77,"body":"education is, and you know, the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1252.77,"endTime":1257.84,"body":"way we live. And I've written"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1252.77,"endTime":1257.84,"body":"about the aims of education, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1257.96,"endTime":1262.16,"body":"Michael rice, and John White's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1257.96,"endTime":1262.16,"body":"believing in aims led education."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1262.22,"endTime":1264.77,"body":"And we were talking when we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1262.22,"endTime":1264.77,"body":"before we came on, and hit"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1264.77,"endTime":1268.01,"body":"record in our 30 minute pre"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1264.77,"endTime":1268.01,"body":"chat, which would have been"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1268.01,"endTime":1272.93,"body":"five, talking about what we what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1268.01,"endTime":1272.93,"body":"the aim of education was went to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1272.93,"endTime":1277.58,"body":"the national curriculum. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1272.93,"endTime":1277.58,"body":"they have two aims of education"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1277.58,"endTime":1283.49,"body":"and their aims, led curriculum,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1277.58,"endTime":1283.49,"body":"and one is that education should"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1283.49,"endTime":1287.09,"body":"enable the individual to have a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1283.49,"endTime":1287.09,"body":"flourishing life. And the second"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1287.09,"endTime":1291.89,"body":"aim, is that that enables those"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1287.09,"endTime":1291.89,"body":"people to help others have a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1291.89,"endTime":1295.58,"body":"flourishing life. And I really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1291.89,"endTime":1295.58,"body":"like I really like that I've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1295.58,"endTime":1298.1,"body":"not, I've not done much work on"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1295.58,"endTime":1298.1,"body":"that I did write about it in my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1298.1,"endTime":1300.5,"body":"doctrine. I've written about it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1298.1,"endTime":1300.5,"body":"in a couple of places, since"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1300.89,"endTime":1303.5,"body":"apparently, it comes from"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1300.89,"endTime":1303.5,"body":"Aristotle, I've not, I've not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1303.5,"endTime":1305.84,"body":"read Aristotle. So I'm just"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1303.5,"endTime":1305.84,"body":"saying what other people have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1305.84,"endTime":1309.68,"body":"told me. You know, but I do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1305.84,"endTime":1309.68,"body":"think that that is important"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1309.68,"endTime":1312.74,"body":"about what we think. And I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1309.68,"endTime":1312.74,"body":"when we're making decisions"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1312.74,"endTime":1315.38,"body":"about what we're teaching, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1312.74,"endTime":1315.38,"body":"where we're teaching, and what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1315.38,"endTime":1318.65,"body":"we're driven by, we have to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1315.38,"endTime":1318.65,"body":"think about what our fundamental"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1318.65,"endTime":1324.89,"body":"beliefs are about what education"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1318.65,"endTime":1324.89,"body":"is for and its purpose. And I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1324.89,"endTime":1327.23,"body":"think, you know, we were talking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1324.89,"endTime":1327.23,"body":"about before about this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1327.23,"endTime":1329.24,"body":"dualistic nature, and you've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1327.23,"endTime":1329.24,"body":"just mentioned it about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1329.24,"endTime":1332.09,"body":"knowledge and skills. You know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1329.24,"endTime":1332.09,"body":"and people have heard me go on"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1332.09,"endTime":1335.75,"body":"in podcast previously, why we're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1332.09,"endTime":1335.75,"body":"having theory lessons in DMT,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1335.75,"endTime":1339.89,"body":"because it is about the body,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1335.75,"endTime":1339.89,"body":"and embodied learning. And I've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1339.89,"endTime":1343.28,"body":"talked about how the back of the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1339.89,"endTime":1343.28,"body":"subjects that are in the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1343.28,"endTime":1345.92,"body":"subjects or out subjects,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1343.28,"endTime":1345.92,"body":"mineral or cognitive, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1345.92,"endTime":1349.25,"body":"the subjects are out involved"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1345.92,"endTime":1349.25,"body":"involve the whole body and more"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1349.25,"endTime":1351.56,"body":"of an embodied learning"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1349.25,"endTime":1351.56,"body":"approach. And it's intense here,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1351.56,"endTime":1356.03,"body":"you use that, that that word"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1351.56,"endTime":1356.03,"body":"embodied, that I don't think we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1356.03,"endTime":1360.86,"body":"kind of explore enough or know"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1356.03,"endTime":1360.86,"body":"enough about, we rely on what's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1360.86,"endTime":1363.44,"body":"happening in other subjects,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1360.86,"endTime":1363.44,"body":"which are more cognitive, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1363.44,"endTime":1367.64,"body":"know, subjects, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1363.44,"endTime":1367.64,"body":"history, science, less so you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1367.64,"endTime":1374.36,"body":"could say, but they are more of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1367.64,"endTime":1374.36,"body":"the brain, rather than of the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1374.36,"endTime":1380.03,"body":"body. I can hear archaeologists"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1374.36,"endTime":1380.03,"body":"and so on arguing against that,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1380.03,"endTime":1382.16,"body":"but you know, kind of where I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1380.03,"endTime":1382.16,"body":"going, but when"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1382.16,"endTime":1385.55,"body":"we think back to a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1382.16,"endTime":1385.55,"body":"school context, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1386.18,"endTime":1386.66,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1387.11,"endTime":1391.16,"body":"And that kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1387.11,"endTime":1391.16,"body":"separation of both is, is false."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1393.26,"endTime":1395.45,"body":"But thinking about what we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1393.26,"endTime":1395.45,"body":"believe to be our aims of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1395.45,"endTime":1399.29,"body":"education does then shape and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1395.45,"endTime":1399.29,"body":"this is kind of my values work"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1399.29,"endTime":1403.43,"body":"shape, what we do in the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1399.29,"endTime":1403.43,"body":"classroom, what we take on board"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1403.43,"endTime":1408.02,"body":"from the curriculum, to teach"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1403.43,"endTime":1408.02,"body":"children and so I think your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1408.05,"endTime":1411.02,"body":"your work around challenging"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1408.05,"endTime":1411.02,"body":"that, but it's not either or,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1412.1,"endTime":1413.72,"body":"it's really important, in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1412.1,"endTime":1413.72,"body":"fairness"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1413.72,"endTime":1415.37,"body":"to the curriculum,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1413.72,"endTime":1415.37,"body":"the curriculum doesn't actually"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1415.37,"endTime":1416.0,"body":"say that."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1416.3,"endTime":1419.18,"body":"No, it's just that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1416.3,"endTime":1419.18,"body":"interpretation. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1419.78,"endTime":1421.64,"body":"It's actually what"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1419.78,"endTime":1421.64,"body":"teachers are trying to do in the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1421.64,"endTime":1422.42,"body":"lesson, because"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1423.62,"endTime":1427.61,"body":"it's also budget"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1423.62,"endTime":1427.61,"body":"and resources. You know, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1427.64,"endTime":1431.9,"body":"also, you know, we know that the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1427.64,"endTime":1431.9,"body":"ideology of government is much"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1431.9,"endTime":1436.01,"body":"more classroom based deskspace"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1431.9,"endTime":1436.01,"body":"textbook based, which takes away"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1436.01,"endTime":1440.69,"body":"and denies that learning happens"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1436.01,"endTime":1440.69,"body":"in ways other than just in the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1440.69,"endTime":1444.26,"body":"brain. So we have got an"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1440.69,"endTime":1444.26,"body":"underpinning ideology that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1444.26,"endTime":1449.99,"body":"coming from government as well"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1444.26,"endTime":1449.99,"body":"that's around funding. And the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1450.02,"endTime":1453.86,"body":"and these two things are, are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1450.02,"endTime":1453.86,"body":"meeting in a way that is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1453.86,"endTime":1458.39,"body":"destructive? And removing the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1453.86,"endTime":1458.39,"body":"body and we could kind of say"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1458.39,"endTime":1461.87,"body":"the same that that you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1458.39,"endTime":1461.87,"body":"leaning too much on AI does does"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1461.87,"endTime":1465.71,"body":"the same? That's a cognitive"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1461.87,"endTime":1465.71,"body":"rather than a psychomotor."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1466.1,"endTime":1469.22,"body":"Well, that's exactly"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1466.1,"endTime":1469.22,"body":"what AI does. Doesn't everyone"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1469.25,"endTime":1472.19,"body":"just become the human becomes"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1469.25,"endTime":1472.19,"body":"less less human?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1472.58,"endTime":1475.49,"body":"Yes, yeah. And we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1472.58,"endTime":1475.49,"body":"don't have those debates about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1476.09,"endTime":1483.05,"body":"how technology intermediates how"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1476.09,"endTime":1483.05,"body":"we see the world. I've done some"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1483.05,"endTime":1489.05,"body":"stuff around. volition. So Mark"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1483.05,"endTime":1489.05,"body":"DeVries writes about different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1489.05,"endTime":1491.3,"body":"ways of talking about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1489.05,"endTime":1491.3,"body":"technology, and one is about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1491.36,"endTime":1496.19,"body":"technologies, volition and how"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1491.36,"endTime":1496.19,"body":"technology shapes how we behave"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1496.19,"endTime":1500.51,"body":"as well as we behave, we shape"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1496.19,"endTime":1500.51,"body":"how technology behaves, and So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1500.78,"endTime":1504.17,"body":"you could say, by going outside"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1500.78,"endTime":1504.17,"body":"into an outside classroom,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1504.17,"endTime":1507.38,"body":"you're removing some of the more"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1504.17,"endTime":1507.38,"body":"modern aspects of technology."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1507.38,"endTime":1509.27,"body":"But there is obviously still"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1507.38,"endTime":1509.27,"body":"technology, you could say a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1509.27,"endTime":1511.43,"body":"flint is a form of technology."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1513.23,"endTime":1515.24,"body":"I think just as you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1513.23,"endTime":1515.24,"body":"go outside, you don't have to be"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1515.24,"endTime":1516.38,"body":"anti technology."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1516.41,"endTime":1518.9,"body":"No. And it's also"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1516.41,"endTime":1518.9,"body":"about how you define technology."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1518.9,"endTime":1521.6,"body":"I think that's what I'm trying"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1518.9,"endTime":1521.6,"body":"to. Yeah, yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1521.6,"endTime":1524.24,"body":"So So what Heidegger"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1521.6,"endTime":1524.24,"body":"would say, Heidegger would say"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1524.24,"endTime":1527.57,"body":"that, you know, technology is"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1524.24,"endTime":1527.57,"body":"all very, very well. But if it's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1527.57,"endTime":1531.23,"body":"technology that's void of"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1527.57,"endTime":1531.23,"body":"nature, that's anti nature, then"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1531.23,"endTime":1534.86,"body":"that's when problems start, you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1531.23,"endTime":1534.86,"body":"know, problems so much that you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1534.86,"endTime":1535.88,"body":"know, they lead to death."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1537.53,"endTime":1539.06,"body":"Right, so that's,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1537.53,"endTime":1539.06,"body":"that's really true. But you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1539.06,"endTime":1542.0,"body":"gonna go Johnny, give us a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1539.06,"endTime":1542.0,"body":"little bit more about what that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1542.0,"endTime":1543.68,"body":"means. Because some people"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1542.0,"endTime":1543.68,"body":"listening,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1544.85,"endTime":1546.86,"body":"I think that could"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1544.85,"endTime":1546.86,"body":"be a whole whole nother whole"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1546.86,"endTime":1550.64,"body":"nother podcast. But it's just"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1546.86,"endTime":1550.64,"body":"this idea that technology is not"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1550.64,"endTime":1555.65,"body":"the enemy. It's just how we use"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1550.64,"endTime":1555.65,"body":"technology. Because technology"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1555.65,"endTime":1560.87,"body":"is really, really useful. And we"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1555.65,"endTime":1560.87,"body":"have like wondrous lives because"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1560.87,"endTime":1564.53,"body":"of how technology has developed"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1560.87,"endTime":1564.53,"body":"over the years. But it has to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1564.53,"endTime":1570.44,"body":"still incorporate, it cannot be"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1564.53,"endTime":1570.44,"body":"anti nature, it has to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1570.44,"endTime":1573.95,"body":"incorporate that in order to aid"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1570.44,"endTime":1573.95,"body":"life. So he would talk about he"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1573.95,"endTime":1580.13,"body":"gives an example of a cabinet"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1573.95,"endTime":1580.13,"body":"maker. And he just says that if"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1580.13,"endTime":1583.4,"body":"we if we develop people that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1580.13,"endTime":1583.4,"body":"make things that don't"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1583.4,"endTime":1587.87,"body":"understand the the connection"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1583.4,"endTime":1587.87,"body":"that you have, with the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1587.87,"endTime":1592.04,"body":"material, then it's just"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1587.87,"endTime":1592.04,"body":"busywork. It's just nonsense."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1592.58,"endTime":1596.12,"body":"And they won't, it won't have"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1592.58,"endTime":1596.12,"body":"that same, it won't have that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1596.12,"endTime":1600.74,"body":"same use with, again, separating"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1596.12,"endTime":1600.74,"body":"things out again. And and that's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1600.74,"endTime":1606.41,"body":"where that's where the problems"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1600.74,"endTime":1606.41,"body":"with technology lead to or are."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1606.89,"endTime":1607.46,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1607.91,"endTime":1609.71,"body":"it's also tell"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1607.91,"endTime":1609.71,"body":"people who Heidegger is."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1610.069,"endTime":1613.999,"body":"So he's a German"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1610.069,"endTime":1613.999,"body":"philosopher, who a bit"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1613.999,"endTime":1619.789,"body":"controversial in terms of his"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1613.999,"endTime":1619.789,"body":"politics. But even though he had"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1619.789,"endTime":1624.079,"body":"controversial politics,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1619.789,"endTime":1624.079,"body":"unusually, he was against this"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1624.079,"endTime":1627.499,"body":"sort of dualistic approach."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1624.079,"endTime":1627.499,"body":"Didn't nothing, nothing really"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1627.499,"endTime":1631.339,"body":"make sense, really, when you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1627.499,"endTime":1631.339,"body":"look back at that, but so"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1631.339,"endTime":1635.539,"body":"Heidegger wrote about being a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1631.339,"endTime":1635.539,"body":"book being in time, he wrote"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1635.539,"endTime":1640.969,"body":"fundamental, fundamental"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1635.539,"endTime":1640.969,"body":"writing, about technology. And"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1640.969,"endTime":1643.369,"body":"that's why I got into him. I'm"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1640.969,"endTime":1643.369,"body":"only at the start really,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1643.939,"endTime":1648.469,"body":"reading and understanding him,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1643.939,"endTime":1648.469,"body":"but it's, um, yeah, if you if"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1648.469,"endTime":1651.859,"body":"you want to think about nature"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1648.469,"endTime":1651.859,"body":"and technology, and how the two"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1651.859,"endTime":1656.209,"body":"can combine, I think it would be"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1651.859,"endTime":1656.209,"body":"a good start."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1656.569,"endTime":1660.799,"body":"A good start. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1656.569,"endTime":1660.799,"body":"have you Have you read any of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1660.799,"endTime":1663.319,"body":"Siri? I mean, people listening"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1660.799,"endTime":1663.319,"body":"to thinking where we're going"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1663.319,"endTime":1664.909,"body":"with this conversation. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1663.319,"endTime":1664.909,"body":"quite sure what the right No,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1664.909,"endTime":1670.099,"body":"I'm not sure either. I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1664.909,"endTime":1670.099,"body":"Heidegger, I was gonna say, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1670.099,"endTime":1672.349,"body":"think David Spendlove relates"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1670.099,"endTime":1672.349,"body":"Heidegger but I think actually,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1672.349,"endTime":1676.369,"body":"it's victim Stein. Just just to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1672.349,"endTime":1676.369,"body":"throw another big, another"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1676.369,"endTime":1681.739,"body":"philosopher into the mix. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1676.369,"endTime":1681.739,"body":"have you looked at any of Steve"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1681.739,"endTime":1686.149,"body":"Cole's work? As part if you've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1681.739,"endTime":1686.149,"body":"not yet you must look at Steve"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1686.149,"endTime":1690.079,"body":"killed Steve, Steve and Mike"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1686.149,"endTime":1690.079,"body":"Martin. Martin talks about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1690.079,"endTime":1696.739,"body":"values within technology. Steve"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1690.079,"endTime":1696.739,"body":"talks about ethics and democracy"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1697.399,"endTime":1698.869,"body":"has been a key underpinning part"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1699.5,"endTime":1702.98,"body":"I want to bring up"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1699.5,"endTime":1702.98,"body":"is Val Val plumwood Do you want"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1702.98,"endTime":1709.22,"body":"to make on she's she's she's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1702.98,"endTime":1709.22,"body":"incredible i She she's got one"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1709.22,"endTime":1712.67,"body":"of our papers is about stone"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1709.22,"endTime":1712.67,"body":"using project. And she says a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1712.67,"endTime":1716.0,"body":"stone using project is best"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1712.67,"endTime":1716.0,"body":"undertaken in the spirit of"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1716.0,"endTime":1719.57,"body":"openness to what stones have to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1716.0,"endTime":1719.57,"body":"teach. And of the attending"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1719.57,"endTime":1723.2,"body":"carefully to each stone is"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1719.57,"endTime":1723.2,"body":"individual is so its individual"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1723.38,"endTime":1727.94,"body":"individuality and its genre."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1723.38,"endTime":1727.94,"body":"Through such discipline of moral"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1727.94,"endTime":1732.17,"body":"epistemology, we become both"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1727.94,"endTime":1732.17,"body":"better wallbuilders and better"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1732.17,"endTime":1736.46,"body":"recognising stones as prophets"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1732.17,"endTime":1736.46,"body":"and Allah teachers. And it's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1736.46,"endTime":1741.11,"body":"that it's about understanding"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1736.46,"endTime":1741.11,"body":"the material as a teacher,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1741.65,"endTime":1745.94,"body":"rather than just making"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1741.65,"endTime":1745.94,"body":"something out of it, because"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1745.94,"endTime":1748.67,"body":"you've been given that material"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1745.94,"endTime":1748.67,"body":"at school. So you've been given"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1748.67,"endTime":1752.42,"body":"a bit of MDF, so therefore you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1748.67,"endTime":1752.42,"body":"make whatever it is out of MDF,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1752.42,"endTime":1756.62,"body":"but it's about experiencing the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1752.42,"endTime":1756.62,"body":"stone or experiencing the timber"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1756.98,"endTime":1764.06,"body":"in all its different forms. That"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1756.98,"endTime":1764.06,"body":"that, that that that that pass"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1764.06,"endTime":1767.27,"body":"on that knowledge or allow you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1764.06,"endTime":1767.27,"body":"to have embodied knowledge."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1768.32,"endTime":1770.69,"body":"Right, so you kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1768.32,"endTime":1770.69,"body":"of slightly blew my head off"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1770.69,"endTime":1773.45,"body":"from Oh, sorry. It's fine. I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1770.69,"endTime":1773.45,"body":"quite happy"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1774.74,"endTime":1775.76,"body":"wild imaginings."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1776.18,"endTime":1777.56,"body":"Also you're doing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1776.18,"endTime":1777.56,"body":"a doctorate you're kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1777.56,"endTime":1780.5,"body":"reading stuff that's making me"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1777.56,"endTime":1780.5,"body":"really excited to get I can see"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1780.5,"endTime":1783.02,"body":"a connection and I bet you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1780.5,"endTime":1783.02,"body":"gonna put all this literature in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1783.05,"endTime":1786.29,"body":"into every part of your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1783.05,"endTime":1786.29,"body":"doctorate. Kind of rein it back"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1786.29,"endTime":1791.81,"body":"a bit. You have to quote that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1786.29,"endTime":1791.81,"body":"quote, If you could type that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1792.26,"endTime":1795.89,"body":"and give me a link to read the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1792.26,"endTime":1795.89,"body":"whole thing, but yeah, but I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1795.89,"endTime":1798.2,"body":"think I'll put it in the show"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1795.89,"endTime":1798.2,"body":"notes obviously credit all"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1798.2,"endTime":1801.26,"body":"properly and then people who are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1798.2,"endTime":1801.26,"body":"listening to that content, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1801.26,"endTime":1803.51,"body":"just need to go and read that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1801.26,"endTime":1803.51,"body":"again, because I didn't quite"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1803.51,"endTime":1808.7,"body":"follow. But I get this idea"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1803.51,"endTime":1808.7,"body":"around. I mean, I think there"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1808.7,"endTime":1811.19,"body":"are times in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1808.7,"endTime":1811.19,"body":"technology when we do just give"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1811.19,"endTime":1814.1,"body":"children the material, because"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1811.19,"endTime":1814.1,"body":"that's not the learning the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1814.1,"endTime":1815.72,"body":"learning isn't about the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1814.1,"endTime":1815.72,"body":"material. The learning is about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1815.72,"endTime":1821.0,"body":"process, for example. And other"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1815.72,"endTime":1821.0,"body":"times we do focus on the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1821.21,"endTime":1824.66,"body":"material, its origins, what it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1821.21,"endTime":1824.66,"body":"what it means in terms of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1824.93,"endTime":1829.28,"body":"economic, technologically,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1824.93,"endTime":1829.28,"body":"environmentally, its impact, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1829.28,"endTime":1831.98,"body":"so on. So I do think there's a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1829.28,"endTime":1831.98,"body":"balance. I don't think it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1832.07,"endTime":1833.81,"body":"again, it's not either, or is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1832.07,"endTime":1833.81,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1834.71,"endTime":1836.54,"body":"Absolutely not"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1834.71,"endTime":1836.54,"body":"Allison, but it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1838.64,"endTime":1841.79,"body":"being aware, isn't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1838.64,"endTime":1841.79,"body":"it of when, when we're doing one"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1841.79,"endTime":1843.83,"body":"bid, and that means we're not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1841.79,"endTime":1843.83,"body":"doing another bid or another"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1843.83,"endTime":1846.74,"body":"aspect and people can't see the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1843.83,"endTime":1846.74,"body":"video, but I'm actually not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1846.74,"endTime":1849.32,"body":"doing either or I'm kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1846.74,"endTime":1849.32,"body":"doing different sides of a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1849.32,"endTime":1850.67,"body":"hexagon, possibly."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1851.75,"endTime":1853.61,"body":"Fish little fish"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1851.75,"endTime":1853.61,"body":"cardboard box."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1853.64,"endTime":1858.05,"body":"Oh, I guess new"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1853.64,"endTime":1858.05,"body":"what's me? Is that nursery"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1858.05,"endTime":1859.97,"body":"rhyme? I don't know. I don't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1858.05,"endTime":1859.97,"body":"have any children. So"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1860.96,"endTime":1862.61,"body":"I think it might be"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1860.96,"endTime":1862.61,"body":"people that were clapping in the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1862.61,"endTime":1863.15,"body":"90s."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1863.69,"endTime":1867.92,"body":"Right. Okay. All"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1863.69,"endTime":1867.92,"body":"right. Children, before we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1867.92,"endTime":1870.41,"body":"started, we were comparing your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1867.92,"endTime":1870.41,"body":"little boy talking about your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1870.41,"endTime":1874.82,"body":"little boy, my dog. Okay, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1870.41,"endTime":1874.82,"body":"had thought might do a whole"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1874.82,"endTime":1878.15,"body":"podcast with him without me"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1874.82,"endTime":1878.15,"body":"mentioning kick. But anyway, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1878.15,"endTime":1880.49,"body":"I have noticed him wandering"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1878.15,"endTime":1880.49,"body":"backwards and forwards in the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1880.49,"endTime":1882.83,"body":"background as well. But anyway,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1880.49,"endTime":1882.83,"body":"but kind of digress."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1882.92,"endTime":1888.35,"body":"I was trying to get"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1882.92,"endTime":1888.35,"body":"up. It was about Yeah, it's,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1888.83,"endTime":1895.01,"body":"it's about being in the flow in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1888.83,"endTime":1895.01,"body":"the workshop, rather than being"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1895.22,"endTime":1900.53,"body":"void of materials and void of"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1895.22,"endTime":1900.53,"body":"nature being like, in another"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1900.53,"endTime":1903.38,"body":"place, and on, you know,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1900.53,"endTime":1903.38,"body":"particular on a computer screen."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1903.41,"endTime":1906.5,"body":"I just don't believe that's the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1903.41,"endTime":1906.5,"body":"way in which design technology"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1906.77,"endTime":1910.01,"body":"should go. I think it's got a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1906.77,"endTime":1910.01,"body":"place in it. But it doesn't have"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1910.01,"endTime":1911.51,"body":"to be all or nothing."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1911.84,"endTime":1915.05,"body":"Yes. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1911.84,"endTime":1915.05,"body":"it's that is kind of what it is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1915.05,"endTime":1918.89,"body":"sometimes is there's opposite"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1915.05,"endTime":1918.89,"body":"ends of a spectrum, aren't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1918.89,"endTime":1921.56,"body":"there? It's kind of like we're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1918.89,"endTime":1921.56,"body":"polarised rather than seeing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1921.56,"endTime":1922.73,"body":"it's like a continuum."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1923.33,"endTime":1926.09,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1923.33,"endTime":1926.09,"body":"Really. Yeah, I think there's a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1926.09,"endTime":1930.11,"body":"lot of people that have got, the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1926.09,"endTime":1930.11,"body":"people are being heard the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1930.11,"endTime":1932.87,"body":"voices that are being listened"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1930.11,"endTime":1932.87,"body":"to, we've got this idea that the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1933.02,"endTime":1937.28,"body":"the computers are going to save"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1933.02,"endTime":1937.28,"body":"all, you know, you know, I heard"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1937.28,"endTime":1939.92,"body":"somebody say that we've got to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1937.28,"endTime":1939.92,"body":"do on computers, because if we"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1939.92,"endTime":1943.46,"body":"use materials, that's having a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1939.92,"endTime":1943.46,"body":"really negative impact on the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1943.46,"endTime":1946.94,"body":"environment. Well, is it as"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1943.46,"endTime":1946.94,"body":"simple as that? I'm not sure it"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1946.94,"endTime":1947.75,"body":"is. Because?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1949.67,"endTime":1952.52,"body":"Yeah, yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1949.67,"endTime":1952.52,"body":"I've heard those arguments as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1952.52,"endTime":1956.18,"body":"well. And I think it's a silly"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1952.52,"endTime":1956.18,"body":"slippery slope. It's not it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1956.18,"endTime":1958.43,"body":"not either or, again, it's a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1956.18,"endTime":1958.43,"body":"mix. And"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1958.61,"endTime":1960.59,"body":"I think that's where"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1958.61,"endTime":1960.59,"body":"the curriculum gets into"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1960.59,"endTime":1964.67,"body":"trouble, or not the curriculum,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1960.59,"endTime":1964.67,"body":"people's interpretation of the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1964.7,"endTime":1967.16,"body":"curriculum. I think that's where"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1964.7,"endTime":1967.16,"body":"we get into trouble, where we"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":1967.16,"endTime":1969.08,"body":"think it's just one thing."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1969.44,"endTime":1973.28,"body":"Yes. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1969.44,"endTime":1973.28,"body":"absolutely. Absolutely. It is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1973.28,"endTime":1976.13,"body":"about teachers having that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1973.28,"endTime":1976.13,"body":"awareness, isn't it about what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1976.13,"endTime":1978.35,"body":"they believe education is for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1976.13,"endTime":1978.35,"body":"what they believe the nature of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1978.35,"endTime":1981.74,"body":"design and technology is, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1978.35,"endTime":1981.74,"body":"know, where their values have an"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1981.74,"endTime":1984.65,"body":"impact on all of that, on those"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1981.74,"endTime":1984.65,"body":"on those decisions on where what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1984.65,"endTime":1987.74,"body":"they believe is in contradiction"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1984.65,"endTime":1987.74,"body":"to what other people in their"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1987.74,"endTime":1990.77,"body":"departments so that people are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1987.74,"endTime":1990.77,"body":"listened to. And so we can have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1990.77,"endTime":1993.32,"body":"these debates. You know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1990.77,"endTime":1993.32,"body":"there'll be some people"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1993.32,"endTime":1996.86,"body":"listening who won't agree with"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1993.32,"endTime":1996.86,"body":"me or you at all, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1996.92,"endTime":2005.35,"body":"they're wrong. But I. Anyway, to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1996.92,"endTime":2005.35,"body":"pull this back, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2005.35,"endTime":2008.95,"body":"constantly talking for quite a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2005.35,"endTime":2008.95,"body":"while. What should we search"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2008.95,"endTime":2010.33,"body":"question then for you ready?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2011.38,"endTime":2013.03,"body":"Well, it's changing"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2011.38,"endTime":2013.03,"body":"all the time."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2013.06,"endTime":2014.41,"body":"Don't give me that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2013.06,"endTime":2014.41,"body":"to tell me what the current"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2014.41,"endTime":2015.37,"body":"research question is."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2015.52,"endTime":2019.12,"body":"Okay. So to what"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2015.52,"endTime":2019.12,"body":"extent are teachers committed to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2019.12,"endTime":2021.28,"body":"including nature connection in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2019.12,"endTime":2021.28,"body":"lessons?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2022.81,"endTime":2025.6,"body":"And is that a case"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2022.81,"endTime":2025.6,"body":"study on design and technology?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2026.53,"endTime":2029.17,"body":"Correct? Right,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2026.53,"endTime":2029.17,"body":"that's exactly what I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2029.17,"endTime":2032.05,"body":"be doing. So that's why I said"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2029.17,"endTime":2032.05,"body":"at the moment, because this idea"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2032.05,"endTime":2035.32,"body":"of really focusing on design and"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2032.05,"endTime":2035.32,"body":"technology is really happened"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2035.32,"endTime":2040.54,"body":"since since my Viva and after"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2035.32,"endTime":2040.54,"body":"doing this pilot study with a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2040.54,"endTime":2043.27,"body":"pilot study is not finished yet."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2040.54,"endTime":2043.27,"body":"I'm only meant to be starting"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2043.27,"endTime":2046.03,"body":"it. But I've already collected"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2043.27,"endTime":2046.03,"body":"quite a lot of data. So I can"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2046.03,"endTime":2048.13,"body":"sort of see the the direction"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2046.03,"endTime":2048.13,"body":"it's going in."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2048.52,"endTime":2051.67,"body":"Yeah. So see, so"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2048.52,"endTime":2051.67,"body":"So what your pilot studies have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2051.67,"endTime":2054.49,"body":"to realise is that the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2051.67,"endTime":2054.49,"body":"complexity of doing it across"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2055.21,"endTime":2058.06,"body":"several subjects, yeah, is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2055.21,"endTime":2058.06,"body":"beyond the scope, because we've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2058.06,"endTime":2061.06,"body":"kind of think, oh, you know, any"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2058.06,"endTime":2061.06,"body":"research project kind of solves"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2061.06,"endTime":2064.0,"body":"everything. That's kind of where"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2061.06,"endTime":2064.0,"body":"we all start. And then you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2064.0,"endTime":2066.43,"body":"narrowing it down to like, gives"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2064.0,"endTime":2066.43,"body":"you a case study within design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2066.43,"endTime":2069.64,"body":"and technology, which could then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2066.43,"endTime":2069.64,"body":"be replicated across other"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2069.64,"endTime":2070.48,"body":"subjects."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2071.62,"endTime":2075.31,"body":"Yeah, oh, or other"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2071.62,"endTime":2075.31,"body":"schools or because design and"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2075.31,"endTime":2078.13,"body":"technology is where my passion"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2075.31,"endTime":2078.13,"body":"is designing technologies, the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2078.31,"endTime":2083.53,"body":"subject that I just has, has so"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2078.31,"endTime":2083.53,"body":"much importance on young people,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2083.53,"endTime":2089.41,"body":"like creativity is so important."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2083.53,"endTime":2089.41,"body":"And yeah, and that's where my,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2089.44,"endTime":2092.53,"body":"my, my sort of my experiences in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2089.44,"endTime":2092.53,"body":"so So,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2093.49,"endTime":2094.75,"body":"again, your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2093.49,"endTime":2094.75,"body":"research question"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2095.35,"endTime":2097.42,"body":"is this way you're"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2095.35,"endTime":2097.42,"body":"gonna pick it apart and yeah,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2097.42,"endTime":2099.94,"body":"I'm looking forward to this bit."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2100.0,"endTime":2104.26,"body":"Hey. I got your"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2104.26,"endTime":2107.35,"body":"number Allison."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2104.26,"endTime":2107.35,"body":"Right. To what extent are"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2107.35,"endTime":2111.13,"body":"teachers committed to including"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2107.35,"endTime":2111.13,"body":"nature connection in lessons?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2111.82,"endTime":2114.16,"body":"So your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2111.82,"endTime":2114.16,"body":"participants are the teachers?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2114.88,"endTime":2117.46,"body":"My Yeah, correct. My"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2114.88,"endTime":2117.46,"body":"participants are the teachers."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2117.67,"endTime":2119.98,"body":"And I've talked about this at"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2117.67,"endTime":2119.98,"body":"length as well, because, you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2119.98,"endTime":2123.49,"body":"know, student voice is so so"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2119.98,"endTime":2123.49,"body":"very important to me. But I just"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2123.49,"endTime":2128.35,"body":"think at this stage, it's about"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2123.49,"endTime":2128.35,"body":"teachers and how we can because"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2128.47,"endTime":2130.9,"body":"it's all very well, and we go"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2128.47,"endTime":2130.9,"body":"into the students, but if we"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2130.9,"endTime":2135.07,"body":"haven't got anything in place in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2130.9,"endTime":2135.07,"body":"the first instance, yeah. How"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2135.07,"endTime":2136.63,"body":"are they going to talk about"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2135.07,"endTime":2136.63,"body":"nature connection when they"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2136.63,"endTime":2139.45,"body":"don't really know what that is?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2136.63,"endTime":2139.45,"body":"For some?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2139.75,"endTime":2142.33,"body":"Yeah. So so what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2139.75,"endTime":2142.33,"body":"you're doing, you're doing an"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2142.33,"endTime":2145.84,"body":"analysis of what is currently in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2142.33,"endTime":2145.84,"body":"place, or are you helping"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2145.84,"endTime":2148.6,"body":"teachers to think about doing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2145.84,"endTime":2148.6,"body":"something in their practice?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2149.35,"endTime":2150.7,"body":"Yeah, it's about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2150.73,"endTime":2152.08,"body":"which one, which"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2150.73,"endTime":2152.08,"body":"one of those"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2154.42,"endTime":2158.92,"body":"is about CPD. And so"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2154.42,"endTime":2158.92,"body":"I would like to make a change."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2159.07,"endTime":2162.31,"body":"So it's a what I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2159.07,"endTime":2162.31,"body":"would call we're not what I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2162.31,"endTime":2166.24,"body":"would call I forget which book"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2162.31,"endTime":2166.24,"body":"it's in Robert, COEs book. It's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2166.24,"endTime":2169.84,"body":"a manipulative study, you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2166.24,"endTime":2169.84,"body":"trying to change something in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2169.84,"endTime":2172.72,"body":"this during the study, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2169.84,"endTime":2172.72,"body":"during the study, so you're not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2172.72,"endTime":2174.25,"body":"observing it on the change."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2175.72,"endTime":2179.23,"body":"So no, not observing"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2175.72,"endTime":2179.23,"body":"trends. So I how the pilot"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2179.23,"endTime":2183.34,"body":"studies run is that I've I've"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2179.23,"endTime":2183.34,"body":"had a series of CBD oil coming"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2183.34,"endTime":2185.05,"body":"to the end of the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2183.34,"endTime":2185.05,"body":"podcast episode recording,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2185.05,"endTime":2186.52,"body":"didn't you? And"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2187.18,"endTime":2190.06,"body":"I was hoping we talk"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2187.18,"endTime":2190.06,"body":"will not actually go into the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2190.06,"endTime":2191.17,"body":"swing of it now that feed"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2191.17,"endTime":2195.49,"body":"the dog. Gary,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2191.17,"endTime":2195.49,"body":"Gary."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2195.97,"endTime":2200.92,"body":"So it's about I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2195.97,"endTime":2200.92,"body":"guess it's about empowering"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2200.92,"endTime":2204.91,"body":"staff so that they feel"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2200.92,"endTime":2204.91,"body":"confident about going outdoors,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2204.91,"endTime":2208.6,"body":"so they understand where their"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2204.91,"endTime":2208.6,"body":"curriculum may fit fit in with"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2208.6,"endTime":2211.93,"body":"nature connection. And what I'm"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2208.6,"endTime":2211.93,"body":"what their school grounds look"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2211.93,"endTime":2215.65,"body":"like, or what their immediate"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2211.93,"endTime":2215.65,"body":"outdoor places look like. But"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2215.83,"endTime":2218.44,"body":"nature connection doesn't just"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2215.83,"endTime":2218.44,"body":"happen outdoors, actually, it"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2218.44,"endTime":2223.57,"body":"can happen indoors as well. So"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2218.44,"endTime":2223.57,"body":"it's yeah, so."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2224.169,"endTime":2225.669,"body":"So you're just"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2224.169,"endTime":2225.669,"body":"doing this in one school or"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2225.669,"endTime":2226.509,"body":"several schools,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2226.6,"endTime":2230.68,"body":"well, other elements"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2226.6,"endTime":2230.68,"body":"in one school, but I think it"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2230.68,"endTime":2232.78,"body":"would be good to make"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2230.68,"endTime":2232.78,"body":"connections with other schools."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2232.78,"endTime":2232.93,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2232.93,"endTime":2234.91,"body":"you're going to do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2232.93,"endTime":2234.91,"body":"some professional development to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2234.91,"endTime":2236.95,"body":"help teachers think about it."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2234.91,"endTime":2236.95,"body":"And then they're going to go"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2236.95,"endTime":2240.31,"body":"away and modify a unit of work"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2236.95,"endTime":2240.31,"body":"maybe or some lessons, and then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2240.31,"endTime":2241.99,"body":"they're going to come back and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2240.31,"endTime":2241.99,"body":"give you some feedback. And they"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2241.99,"endTime":2245.23,"body":"might do that as part of a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2241.99,"endTime":2245.23,"body":"reflective journal, a diary"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2245.23,"endTime":2246.13,"body":"photographs."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2246.16,"endTime":2248.89,"body":"So that's how it's"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2246.16,"endTime":2248.89,"body":"working at the moment, teachers"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2248.89,"endTime":2251.95,"body":"are doing a series of field"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2248.89,"endTime":2251.95,"body":"notes, which they share with me."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2252.4,"endTime":2255.88,"body":"And then I will analyse those,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2252.4,"endTime":2255.88,"body":"those field notes. Actually,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2255.88,"endTime":2257.77,"body":"it's funny, you talk about"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2255.88,"endTime":2257.77,"body":"photography, because when I was"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2257.77,"endTime":2263.68,"body":"on my MSc i to Palo Frary, which"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2257.77,"endTime":2263.68,"body":"I'll put in the link as well."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2263.8,"endTime":2267.16,"body":"But he talks a lot about"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2263.8,"endTime":2267.16,"body":"community projects, and how you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2267.16,"endTime":2270.58,"body":"can use photography to go out"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2267.16,"endTime":2270.58,"body":"into the compute community to"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2270.64,"endTime":2275.89,"body":"show what that looks like. And"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2270.64,"endTime":2275.89,"body":"then in order to make a change."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2276.1,"endTime":2280.36,"body":"And so I asked teachers to take"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2276.1,"endTime":2280.36,"body":"a lesson indoors and take a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2280.36,"endTime":2285.28,"body":"listen outdoors. And one student"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2280.36,"endTime":2285.28,"body":"within the class would record or"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2285.28,"endTime":2288.37,"body":"take a photograph every five"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2285.28,"endTime":2288.37,"body":"minutes, right of each each"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2288.37,"endTime":2292.33,"body":"lesson. And then we put the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2288.37,"endTime":2292.33,"body":"photographs side by side. And it"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2292.33,"endTime":2295.3,"body":"just started a conversation."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2292.33,"endTime":2295.3,"body":"Yeah. And I started a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2295.3,"endTime":2298.18,"body":"conversation with the teacher."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2295.3,"endTime":2298.18,"body":"And they became really"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2298.18,"endTime":2301.45,"body":"reflective about their practice"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2298.18,"endTime":2301.45,"body":"and some of the things that you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2301.45,"endTime":2304.51,"body":"know, we're asked to do as"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2301.45,"endTime":2304.51,"body":"teachers and and what the real"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2304.51,"endTime":2307.63,"body":"impact is on the students. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2308.26,"endTime":2311.53,"body":"So. So a couple of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2308.26,"endTime":2311.53,"body":"things. Have you looked at Helen"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2311.53,"endTime":2315.16,"body":"Keller's work? Creative research"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2311.53,"endTime":2315.16,"body":"methods, show me the books I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2315.16,"endTime":2317.35,"body":"have. Excellent, excellent. You"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2315.16,"endTime":2317.35,"body":"know, she's running a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2317.35,"endTime":2318.01,"body":"conference, don't"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2318.01,"endTime":2320.56,"body":"you? Know, a day but"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2318.01,"endTime":2320.56,"body":"I'd like to attend? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2321.43,"endTime":2323.65,"body":"You find her on"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2321.43,"endTime":2323.65,"body":"Twitter or we find a website and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2323.65,"endTime":2333.55,"body":"kara.co.uk. I think I'll put a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2323.65,"endTime":2333.55,"body":"link in the show notes. But then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2333.55,"endTime":2338.83,"body":"you also mentioned the impact on"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2333.55,"endTime":2338.83,"body":"the children. Take a look at"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2338.83,"endTime":2339.07,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2340.39,"endTime":2345.22,"body":"Yes, I'm very"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2340.39,"endTime":2345.22,"body":"mindful that I, I, I do get"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2345.22,"endTime":2349.54,"body":"overexcited about things. So I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2345.22,"endTime":2349.54,"body":"have to make sure that I don't"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2349.81,"endTime":2354.76,"body":"try to include too much. But the"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2349.81,"endTime":2354.76,"body":"the I don't know if you've"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2354.76,"endTime":2358.96,"body":"noticed that. Yeah. But yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2354.76,"endTime":2358.96,"body":"the How am I going to measure"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2358.96,"endTime":2363.37,"body":"the impact of the students?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2358.96,"endTime":2363.37,"body":"Well, I mean, that could be"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2363.37,"endTime":2367.03,"body":"simply as a survey at the start"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2363.37,"endTime":2367.03,"body":"of the module, and I'm one of"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2367.03,"endTime":2367.21,"body":"the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2367.27,"endTime":2370.51,"body":"whatsoever with"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2367.27,"endTime":2370.51,"body":"the children. Yeah, yeah. But I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2370.51,"endTime":2371.71,"body":"thought you weren't gonna listen"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2370.51,"endTime":2371.71,"body":"to people."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2373.03,"endTime":2374.17,"body":"No, you just asked"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2373.03,"endTime":2374.17,"body":"me about."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2375.52,"endTime":2377.65,"body":"No, no, no, no, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2375.52,"endTime":2377.65,"body":"asked you."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2378.67,"endTime":2380.86,"body":"Sorry, I"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2378.67,"endTime":2380.86,"body":"misunderstood your question."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2382.72,"endTime":2383.83,"body":"Listening"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2382.72,"endTime":2383.83,"body":"properly, you're answering the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2383.83,"endTime":2386.41,"body":"question that you wanted me to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2383.83,"endTime":2386.41,"body":"ask you rather than the question"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2386.41,"endTime":2393.64,"body":"I'd ask you, which is sorry,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2386.41,"endTime":2393.64,"body":"anybody who's been my student"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2393.64,"endTime":2396.46,"body":"who is listening will go this is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2393.64,"endTime":2396.46,"body":"exactly how she isn't a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2396.46,"endTime":2397.09,"body":"tutorial."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2398.5,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"We need you to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2402.46,"endTime":2406.54,"body":"So yeah, impact."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2402.46,"endTime":2406.54,"body":"How will you measure the impact?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2406.63,"endTime":2412.99,"body":"What do you see impact as being?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2406.63,"endTime":2412.99,"body":"Because you, you what you've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2412.99,"endTime":2415.75,"body":"narrowed it straight down to is,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2412.99,"endTime":2415.75,"body":"but do a survey with the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2415.75,"endTime":2418.06,"body":"children, which were a few"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2415.75,"endTime":2418.06,"body":"minutes ago, you'd ruled out"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2418.06,"endTime":2420.28,"body":"anything to do with the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2418.06,"endTime":2420.28,"body":"Children's voice, because impact"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2420.28,"endTime":2423.4,"body":"doesn't have to be the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2420.28,"endTime":2423.4,"body":"children's voice. It could be"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2423.4,"endTime":2424.48,"body":"looking at the children's work."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2425.53,"endTime":2428.44,"body":"Exactly. Sorry, my"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2425.53,"endTime":2428.44,"body":"brain didn't kick in."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2428.47,"endTime":2430.93,"body":"And it was a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2428.47,"endTime":2430.93,"body":"trick. And I tripped you up"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2430.93,"endTime":2433.81,"body":"deliberately to make myself look"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2430.93,"endTime":2433.81,"body":"good. That's what I'm about."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2435.91,"endTime":2437.77,"body":"In all fairness, you"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2435.91,"endTime":2437.77,"body":"did warn me at the start, that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2437.77,"endTime":2439.3,"body":"would happen. So it'd be all"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2437.77,"endTime":2439.3,"body":"about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2439.3,"endTime":2439.81,"body":"me. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2443.08,"endTime":2445.69,"body":"Yeah, so we can look"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2443.08,"endTime":2445.69,"body":"at the student's work. And in"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2445.69,"endTime":2448.66,"body":"particularly in diente, we can"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2445.69,"endTime":2448.66,"body":"look at the decisions that they"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2448.66,"endTime":2454.57,"body":"make, you know, how does that"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2448.66,"endTime":2454.57,"body":"and I say prime environmental,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2454.57,"endTime":2459.01,"body":"but I only say that in terms of"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2454.57,"endTime":2459.01,"body":"sort of the inclusivity of who"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2459.01,"endTime":2463.24,"body":"we who we listen to. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2459.01,"endTime":2463.24,"body":"Yeah. Who's been included?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2463.27,"endTime":2466.03,"body":"Yeah. And others."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2463.27,"endTime":2466.03,"body":"And if we're not careful, it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2466.06,"endTime":2469.03,"body":"it's back to that dualistic. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2466.06,"endTime":2469.03,"body":"again, going back to Matt"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2469.03,"endTime":2475.36,"body":"Woodford, who's a mass ITA,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2469.03,"endTime":2475.36,"body":"teacher educator at my place,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2475.6,"endTime":2482.68,"body":"who's setting part of his PhD."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2475.6,"endTime":2482.68,"body":"At tomorrow, so people know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2482.68,"endTime":2489.01,"body":"Matt will know when I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2482.68,"endTime":2489.01,"body":"this then. So Matt, is looking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2489.01,"endTime":2493.54,"body":"at professional development in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2489.01,"endTime":2493.54,"body":"the context of maths. And he"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2493.54,"endTime":2500.44,"body":"says, there's quite a housey"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2493.54,"endTime":2500.44,"body":"talk about it. That it's about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2501.43,"endTime":2506.95,"body":"professional development is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2501.43,"endTime":2506.95,"body":"seen, generally as being to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2506.95,"endTime":2511.42,"body":"change student outcomes by"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2506.95,"endTime":2511.42,"body":"changing teachers, which is kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2511.42,"endTime":2516.34,"body":"of what what you what it could"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2511.42,"endTime":2516.34,"body":"be seen that you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2516.34,"endTime":2518.74,"body":"do. And he says, again, that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2516.34,"endTime":2518.74,"body":"this slide with this word, we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2518.74,"endTime":2524.8,"body":"keep using this a dualistic"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2518.74,"endTime":2524.8,"body":"philosophy that praises the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2524.8,"endTime":2527.44,"body":"student outcomes as the aim of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2524.8,"endTime":2527.44,"body":"professional development, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2527.44,"endTime":2531.04,"body":"thereby does quoting Matt"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2527.44,"endTime":2531.04,"body":"dehumanises teachers into the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2531.04,"endTime":2535.18,"body":"input of a binary blackbox"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2531.04,"endTime":2535.18,"body":"approach. And he calls it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2535.18,"endTime":2539.32,"body":"pedagogic, pedagogic oppression,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2535.18,"endTime":2539.32,"body":"I'll put a link in the show"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2539.32,"endTime":2543.7,"body":"notes to to Matt's paper. It's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2539.32,"endTime":2543.7,"body":"absolutely brilliant. That he's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2543.7,"endTime":2548.38,"body":"done on this. Actor Paulo"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2543.7,"endTime":2548.38,"body":"Ferreira again, yeah, it is it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2548.38,"endTime":2551.11,"body":"is. So his professional"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2548.38,"endTime":2551.11,"body":"development has been really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2551.11,"endTime":2553.96,"body":"interesting. And I might ask"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2551.11,"endTime":2553.96,"body":"him, if I can share some of that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2553.96,"endTime":2557.71,"body":"with you. Because he's talking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2553.96,"endTime":2557.71,"body":"about helping, helping, helping"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2557.71,"endTime":2560.29,"body":"the teacher see, when you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2557.71,"endTime":2560.29,"body":"introducing a new professional"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2560.29,"endTime":2563.38,"body":"development or new pedagogy that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2560.29,"endTime":2563.38,"body":"may well have contradictions"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2563.38,"endTime":2567.16,"body":"within them about and again,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2563.38,"endTime":2567.16,"body":"forgive me, Matt, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2567.16,"endTime":2570.07,"body":"misinterpreting your work or"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2567.16,"endTime":2570.07,"body":"poorly representing it may have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2570.07,"endTime":2572.47,"body":"conflicts within them about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2570.07,"endTime":2572.47,"body":"their belief systems about what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2572.47,"endTime":2575.74,"body":"education is for what their role"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2572.47,"endTime":2575.74,"body":"is, as a teacher, and so on. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2575.74,"endTime":2580.15,"body":"so when we have these directives"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2575.74,"endTime":2580.15,"body":"from government and from"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2580.18,"endTime":2582.01,"body":"different national"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2580.18,"endTime":2582.01,"body":"organisations, which I won't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2582.01,"endTime":2588.28,"body":"name, anyone in particular, that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2582.01,"endTime":2588.28,"body":"have a particular view of what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2588.31,"endTime":2591.4,"body":"teaching is, and these are very"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2588.31,"endTime":2591.4,"body":"heavily promoted in a particular"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2591.4,"endTime":2596.47,"body":"range of books for a particular"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2591.4,"endTime":2596.47,"body":"publisher, and but they're seen"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2596.47,"endTime":2599.71,"body":"as the way because there's no"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2596.47,"endTime":2599.71,"body":"opportunity for teachers to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2599.71,"endTime":2605.65,"body":"debate and question how it sits"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2599.71,"endTime":2605.65,"body":"within them. So yes, again, this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2605.65,"endTime":2608.59,"body":"dualistic approach, teachers are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2605.65,"endTime":2608.59,"body":"being taught something that will"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2608.59,"endTime":2610.69,"body":"make a difference to student"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2608.59,"endTime":2610.69,"body":"outcomes. That's why it's kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2610.69,"endTime":2614.32,"body":"of slightly tongue in cheek"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2610.69,"endTime":2614.32,"body":"about the impact. Because to an"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2614.32,"endTime":2617.5,"body":"extent, why would you be doing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2614.32,"endTime":2617.5,"body":"something with teachers if it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2617.5,"endTime":2619.6,"body":"wasn't gonna make a difference"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2617.5,"endTime":2619.6,"body":"to what students outcomes were,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2619.6,"endTime":2622.21,"body":"but we have to first we'll have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2619.6,"endTime":2622.21,"body":"a discussion maybe about, what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2622.21,"endTime":2626.62,"body":"do we see as the right student"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2622.21,"endTime":2626.62,"body":"outcomes? I mean, some people"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2626.62,"endTime":2630.43,"body":"say it's about GCSE results. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2626.62,"endTime":2630.43,"body":"back to what we see the aim of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2630.43,"endTime":2634.03,"body":"education is, anyway. So that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2630.43,"endTime":2634.03,"body":"a huge conversation there. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2634.03,"endTime":2638.14,"body":"hopefully, that's hoping I might"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2634.03,"endTime":2638.14,"body":"be blown your head off there, as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2638.14,"endTime":2641.68,"body":"you have several times this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2638.14,"endTime":2641.68,"body":"conversation. Now, I think I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2641.68,"endTime":2643.84,"body":"think you're doing Brilliant"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2641.68,"endTime":2643.84,"body":"stuff. So I think absolutely"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2643.84,"endTime":2648.04,"body":"fantastic. I mean, you're making"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2643.84,"endTime":2648.04,"body":"me think about this dualistic"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2648.31,"endTime":2653.14,"body":"thing that happens all over, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2648.31,"endTime":2653.14,"body":"know, body mind, inside outside,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2654.46,"endTime":2659.26,"body":"into the teachers output from"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2654.46,"endTime":2659.26,"body":"the pupils, you know, knowledge,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2659.26,"endTime":2662.2,"body":"skills, vocation academic would"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2659.26,"endTime":2662.2,"body":"even touch on that one. Let's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2662.2,"endTime":2664.96,"body":"not go there. At this point. We"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2662.2,"endTime":2664.96,"body":"had a whole conversation before"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2664.96,"endTime":2669.22,"body":"we press record, don't worry"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2664.96,"endTime":2669.22,"body":"about that. But I think yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2669.22,"endTime":2673.84,"body":"think thinking about trying to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2669.22,"endTime":2673.84,"body":"bring about change is also then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2673.84,"endTime":2677.05,"body":"thinking about Baptists word"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2673.84,"endTime":2677.05,"body":"about impact about well, what's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2677.05,"endTime":2680.74,"body":"the change that you're hoping to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2677.05,"endTime":2680.74,"body":"bring about in the teachers? And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2680.74,"endTime":2683.44,"body":"are you wanting to bring"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2680.74,"endTime":2683.44,"body":"anything in about the way that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2683.47,"endTime":2688.06,"body":"children see the world or see"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2683.47,"endTime":2688.06,"body":"technology? That's kind of would"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2688.06,"endTime":2690.67,"body":"make more sense to me about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2688.06,"endTime":2690.67,"body":"impact?"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2691.15,"endTime":2692.26,"body":"That's the ultimate"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2691.15,"endTime":2692.26,"body":"goal."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2692.41,"endTime":2697.9,"body":"Yeah. Okay. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2692.41,"endTime":2697.9,"body":"well, I think we're kind of what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2698.2,"endTime":2702.01,"body":"I've taught for the last bit. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2698.2,"endTime":2702.01,"body":"that's all Right then I shared"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2702.01,"endTime":2705.28,"body":"my opinion. That's all that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2702.01,"endTime":2705.28,"body":"matters at the end of the day,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2706.78,"endTime":2712.21,"body":"my podcast back to me, love to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2706.78,"endTime":2712.21,"body":"listen back to recording and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2712.21,"endTime":2714.22,"body":"think about how many times I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2712.21,"endTime":2714.22,"body":"mentioned my research. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2714.22,"endTime":2717.82,"body":"quite sure I got it enough"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2714.22,"endTime":2717.82,"body":"people can play Alison Hardy."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2718.51,"endTime":2721.72,"body":"One more time. Maybe offering"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2718.51,"endTime":2721.72,"body":"support. I won't"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2724.0,"endTime":2725.11,"body":"say so much,"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2724.0,"endTime":2725.11,"body":"Allison."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2725.14,"endTime":2727.06,"body":"No, it's been"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2725.14,"endTime":2727.06,"body":"great. It's been great. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2727.06,"endTime":2729.22,"body":"you've it's been a great"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2727.06,"endTime":2729.22,"body":"conversation, people won't know."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2729.22,"endTime":2731.2,"body":"But we had a half hour"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2729.22,"endTime":2731.2,"body":"conversation beforehand."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2732.37,"endTime":2736.54,"body":"oversharing on all sorts of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2732.37,"endTime":2736.54,"body":"things. Great fun. Really good."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2736.54,"endTime":2738.94,"body":"It's good to see you laughing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2736.54,"endTime":2738.94,"body":"and and it's good to have this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2738.94,"endTime":2741.79,"body":"opportunity to laugh as well and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2738.94,"endTime":2741.79,"body":"talk about design technology, in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2741.79,"endTime":2744.97,"body":"a way so that I have to say, I'd"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2741.79,"endTime":2744.97,"body":"never thought of before. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2744.97,"endTime":2747.34,"body":"you've really challenged my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2744.97,"endTime":2747.34,"body":"thinking. So that's great. I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2747.34,"endTime":2751.48,"body":"like having my make people"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2747.34,"endTime":2751.48,"body":"making my brain hurt. Right."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2751.51,"endTime":2754.63,"body":"It's been great. Enjoy that too."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2751.51,"endTime":2754.63,"body":"Good. Good. And hopefully you'll"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2754.63,"endTime":2758.23,"body":"come back. And I'd love your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2754.63,"endTime":2758.23,"body":"game. Of course, of course you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2758.23,"endTime":2764.77,"body":"would. That goes without saying,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2758.23,"endTime":2764.77,"body":"and why wouldn't you? Hopefully"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2764.77,"endTime":2767.2,"body":"you're going to put a poster in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2764.77,"endTime":2767.2,"body":"for the pack conference."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2768.129,"endTime":2772.689,"body":"Yes, I've seen"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2768.129,"endTime":2772.689,"body":"emails. And yeah, one or two"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2772.689,"endTime":2775.089,"body":"things going on at the moment."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2772.689,"endTime":2775.089,"body":"But soon as they brought to a"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2775.089,"endTime":2777.459,"body":"close, I will be right on it."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2777.519,"endTime":2779.229,"body":"Excellent."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2777.519,"endTime":2779.229,"body":"Excellent. And if you want any"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2779.229,"endTime":2782.019,"body":"help, then I suggest you reach"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2779.229,"endTime":2782.019,"body":"out to Sarah Davis and Matt"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2782.019,"endTime":2787.539,"body":"McLean. I'm too busy. It's been"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2782.019,"endTime":2787.539,"body":"brill. It's been built. I do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2787.539,"endTime":2789.909,"body":"think you need to share your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2787.539,"endTime":2789.909,"body":"work, which we talked about last"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2789.909,"endTime":2792.489,"body":"time. So thanks so much. Soon,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2789.909,"endTime":2792.489,"body":"hopefully will come back and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2792.489,"endTime":2794.439,"body":"give us an update in about a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2792.489,"endTime":2794.439,"body":"year's time about where you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2794.439,"endTime":2795.399,"body":"at and what you're doing with"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2794.439,"endTime":2795.399,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2795.61,"endTime":2798.1,"body":"Oh, that'd be great."},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2795.61,"endTime":2798.1,"body":"That would be super cool. Thank"},{"speaker":"Sue Taplin","startTime":2798.1,"endTime":2798.88,"body":"you so much."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2798.91,"endTime":2803.08,"body":"Pleasure. Absolute"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2798.91,"endTime":2803.08,"body":"pleasure. It's been a joy. Well,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2803.08,"endTime":2806.02,"body":"fantastic. That was good. That"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2803.08,"endTime":2806.02,"body":"was just what I needed."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2806.02,"endTime":2808.42,"body":"Actually. Just what I needed."}]}