{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.79,"body":"This week's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.79,"body":"podcast is with Amanda Mason."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2.85,"endTime":5.94,"body":"Amanda is a member of several"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2.85,"endTime":5.94,"body":"things I'm doing at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":5.94,"endTime":8.82,"body":"actually, Amanda, I've realised"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":5.94,"endTime":8.82,"body":"is part of the redesigning DNC"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":8.82,"endTime":12.09,"body":"project. But for today's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":8.82,"endTime":12.09,"body":"podcast, she's here because"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":12.09,"endTime":16.14,"body":"she's part of the debates in DNC"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":12.09,"endTime":16.14,"body":"book club. 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I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":110.25,"endTime":112.92,"body":"could drop you in it here,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":110.25,"endTime":112.92,"body":"Amanda, and say, you want to do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":112.92,"endTime":114.39,"body":"a synopsis of the chapter."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":115.8,"endTime":116.88,"body":"I can give it a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":115.8,"endTime":116.88,"body":"go."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":119.1,"endTime":126.45,"body":"So the chapter looks at previous"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":119.1,"endTime":126.45,"body":"cognitive theories, Lincoln to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":126.45,"endTime":129.12,"body":"design and technology and the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":126.45,"endTime":129.12,"body":"design theory."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":130.59,"endTime":134.07,"body":"Particularly it looks at"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":130.59,"endTime":134.07,"body":"information processing, where"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":134.07,"endTime":139.05,"body":"it's all about knowledge, it's"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":134.07,"endTime":139.05,"body":"all about the designer, using"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":139.05,"endTime":144.66,"body":"more of a representation than an"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":139.05,"endTime":144.66,"body":"actual feel for materials. 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I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":194.7,"endTime":196.74,"body":"don't think that's a bad shot."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":194.7,"endTime":196.74,"body":"And I'm sure if Nick, thank you"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":196.74,"endTime":199.95,"body":"very much. He'd say the same"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":196.74,"endTime":199.95,"body":"thing. Yeah, it's this idea,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":199.95,"endTime":203.91,"body":"isn't it that the information"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":199.95,"endTime":203.91,"body":"processing one is internal, and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":203.91,"endTime":208.32,"body":"then the extended? Now"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":203.91,"endTime":208.32,"body":"ecological psychology theory is"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":208.32,"endTime":211.92,"body":"much more external. Yes. 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We are encouraged as"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":455.64,"endTime":461.01,"body":"teachers to give an example or"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":455.64,"endTime":461.01,"body":"to model what good looks like."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":461.04,"endTime":464.73,"body":"And as a result, when the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":461.04,"endTime":464.73,"body":"students then go on to create a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":464.73,"endTime":469.95,"body":"design of something, they then"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":464.73,"endTime":469.95,"body":"use our example, or they use our"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":469.95,"endTime":473.91,"body":"modelling, to then use that as"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":469.95,"endTime":473.91,"body":"their basis or their starting"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":473.91,"endTime":478.05,"body":"point. And almost every time"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":473.91,"endTime":478.05,"body":"they create a design, it"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":478.05,"endTime":481.47,"body":"reflects what we've almost done"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":478.05,"endTime":481.47,"body":"just maybe just a slightly"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":481.47,"endTime":485.76,"body":"different picture on the front"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":481.47,"endTime":485.76,"body":"of it, or in the design ideas"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":485.79,"endTime":488.7,"body":"are always very limited. I think"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":485.79,"endTime":488.7,"body":"because of that."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":489.06,"endTime":492.54,"body":"Yeah. So so it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":489.06,"endTime":492.54,"body":"almost like the process that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":492.54,"endTime":495.39,"body":"you're taking them through is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":492.54,"endTime":495.39,"body":"quite ritualistic is Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":495.39,"endTime":501.15,"body":"right, or? Yeah, I would agree."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":495.39,"endTime":501.15,"body":"Yeah. So and this idea about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":501.3,"endTime":503.79,"body":"them having an idea that you've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":501.3,"endTime":503.79,"body":"done that you show them the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":503.79,"endTime":506.79,"body":"beginning, Where's where's that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":503.79,"endTime":506.79,"body":"come from? And well,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":506.79,"endTime":509.55,"body":"a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":506.79,"endTime":509.55,"body":"national curriculum is very"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":510.36,"endTime":516.42,"body":"open, if I can see that. It"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":510.36,"endTime":516.42,"body":"doesn't, it does see, and that"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":516.42,"endTime":519.06,"body":"will have to have"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":516.42,"endTime":519.06,"body":"microcontrollers within my area"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":519.9,"endTime":526.29,"body":"will have to show social and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":519.9,"endTime":526.29,"body":"cultural issues. However, that"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":526.29,"endTime":529.26,"body":"that's pretty much it. It"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":526.29,"endTime":529.26,"body":"doesn't, it doesn't define and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":529.26,"endTime":533.64,"body":"so I do have scope to then"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":529.26,"endTime":533.64,"body":"create my own project. So for"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":533.64,"endTime":539.28,"body":"me, my year at neither"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":533.64,"endTime":539.28,"body":"introduced remote control as an"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":539.34,"endTime":542.16,"body":"ad design the project or the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":539.34,"endTime":542.16,"body":"scheme of work, where they"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":542.16,"endTime":545.34,"body":"create a money music box that"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":542.16,"endTime":545.34,"body":"really advance the Chinese New"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":545.34,"endTime":549.21,"body":"Year. So because the focus is on"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":545.34,"endTime":549.21,"body":"the microcontrollers, and them"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":549.21,"endTime":552.54,"body":"understanding how to programme"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":549.21,"endTime":552.54,"body":"and programme them, then the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":552.54,"endTime":555.69,"body":"design element is then kind of"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":552.54,"endTime":555.69,"body":"taken away from them. Because"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":555.69,"endTime":558.09,"body":"it's like, oh, well, it's going"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":555.69,"endTime":558.09,"body":"to be this kind of shaped box,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":558.12,"endTime":560.01,"body":"and all you're doing is design"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":558.12,"endTime":560.01,"body":"and what it looks like on the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":560.01,"endTime":563.64,"body":"front. So it does limit that"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":560.01,"endTime":563.64,"body":"design process."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":563.88,"endTime":566.04,"body":"Yeah. So I would I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":563.88,"endTime":566.04,"body":"would argue that's not a design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":566.04,"endTime":566.67,"body":"project."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":567.21,"endTime":571.23,"body":"No, that's a very"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":567.21,"endTime":571.23,"body":"much a DNA. Yeah, that's a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":571.23,"endTime":574.29,"body":"microcontroller programming"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":571.23,"endTime":574.29,"body":"project. Yes."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":574.74,"endTime":576.69,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":574.74,"endTime":576.69,"body":"that that becomes the other"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":576.69,"endTime":580.23,"body":"challenge isn't it is discerning"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":576.69,"endTime":580.23,"body":"when when you're actually doing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":580.23,"endTime":583.32,"body":"a design project or when you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":580.23,"endTime":583.32,"body":"actually yeah, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":583.35,"endTime":585.69,"body":"something that might cause I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":583.35,"endTime":585.69,"body":"mainly making which mainly is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":585.9,"endTime":589.38,"body":"focusing on them learning"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":585.9,"endTime":589.38,"body":"processes, and yeah, so they can"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":589.38,"endTime":592.8,"body":"then apply related design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":589.38,"endTime":592.8,"body":"project. Yeah, that's it. That's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":592.8,"endTime":597.78,"body":"a constraint all the time, isn't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":592.8,"endTime":597.78,"body":"it? Yeah. of time and materials"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":597.78,"endTime":601.65,"body":"and sort of getting them through"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":597.78,"endTime":601.65,"body":"Yeah, within the time that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":601.65,"endTime":603.87,"body":"you've got, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":601.65,"endTime":603.87,"body":"knowledge that you want them to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":603.87,"endTime":608.31,"body":"learn. So it sounds like in some"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":603.87,"endTime":608.31,"body":"ways, yeah, I do think from my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":608.31,"endTime":610.92,"body":"experience and what I've seen in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":608.31,"endTime":610.92,"body":"schools and tips, I've spoken to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":610.92,"endTime":614.55,"body":"that, that the information"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":610.92,"endTime":614.55,"body":"processing is more of the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":614.55,"endTime":619.32,"body":"dominant. And that's almost I've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":614.55,"endTime":619.32,"body":"been a bit of a backlash, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":619.32,"endTime":622.92,"body":"think, to the fact that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":619.32,"endTime":622.92,"body":"possibly, the ecological"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":623.13,"endTime":627.57,"body":"psychology theory was much more"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":623.13,"endTime":627.57,"body":"dominant previously in the early"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":627.6,"endTime":636.15,"body":"2000s. And so we've ended up in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":627.6,"endTime":636.15,"body":"this place where you see it, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":636.15,"endTime":639.3,"body":"know, do your either in one camp"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":636.15,"endTime":639.3,"body":"or the other. And so I kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":639.3,"endTime":643.08,"body":"quite like Nikki's work about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":639.3,"endTime":643.08,"body":"can you think, well, actually,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":643.08,"endTime":646.83,"body":"these two can come together, it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":643.08,"endTime":646.83,"body":"is internal, it is external. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":646.83,"endTime":650.7,"body":"the work that Richard Kimball"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":646.83,"endTime":650.7,"body":"and Kay stables did on the hand"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":650.7,"endTime":654.27,"body":"of mind working together. I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":650.7,"endTime":654.27,"body":"mean, that was all about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":654.27,"endTime":657.87,"body":"assessment. And we've tried to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":654.27,"endTime":657.87,"body":"give opportunities for children"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":657.87,"endTime":663.15,"body":"to do those things in the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":657.87,"endTime":663.15,"body":"assessment activity. You know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":663.15,"endTime":665.97,"body":"it's not gone away, it's always"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":663.15,"endTime":665.97,"body":"been there. But the national"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":665.97,"endTime":668.97,"body":"curriculum and different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":665.97,"endTime":668.97,"body":"governments have kind of forced"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":668.97,"endTime":671.07,"body":"us to do different things. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":668.97,"endTime":671.07,"body":"we're currently living in this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":673.41,"endTime":678.24,"body":"perception of what it looks like"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":673.41,"endTime":678.24,"body":"to be knowledge rich. So the the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":678.24,"endTime":681.03,"body":"knowledge gets taught first, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":678.24,"endTime":681.03,"body":"then it kind of gets put into a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":681.03,"endTime":683.94,"body":"design project, which may or may"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":681.03,"endTime":683.94,"body":"not be a design project with the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":683.94,"endTime":688.86,"body":"best way in the world because of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":683.94,"endTime":688.86,"body":"the time constraints. And that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":688.86,"endTime":693.69,"body":"been almost like a backlash to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":688.86,"endTime":693.69,"body":"this previous of doing design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":693.69,"endTime":698.22,"body":"activities by for want of a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":693.69,"endTime":698.22,"body":"better word, maybe discovery."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":698.67,"endTime":701.19,"body":"And I think this idea of of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":698.67,"endTime":701.19,"body":"Nicky's, and then it kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":701.19,"endTime":705.54,"body":"links back to Kimberlin stables"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":701.19,"endTime":705.54,"body":"work. And we're at the hand on"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":705.54,"endTime":708.63,"body":"the mind together the internal"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":705.54,"endTime":708.63,"body":"and the external that you need."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":709.77,"endTime":714.66,"body":"Both, when when they're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":709.77,"endTime":714.66,"body":"designing. Yeah, and it's at"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":714.66,"endTime":718.32,"body":"which point do you teach the new"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":714.66,"endTime":718.32,"body":"knowledge? And is, is the design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":718.32,"endTime":722.4,"body":"and make activity? Are you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":718.32,"endTime":722.4,"body":"teaching them the process of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":722.4,"endTime":729.3,"body":"designing? Sure, you can"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":722.4,"endTime":729.3,"body":"personally? Or are you teaching"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":729.3,"endTime":733.11,"body":"them different strategies they"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":729.3,"endTime":733.11,"body":"can use for design and different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":733.11,"endTime":735.9,"body":"knowledge, technological"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":733.11,"endTime":735.9,"body":"knowledge that they can use in a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":735.9,"endTime":738.6,"body":"design project? And it's when do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":735.9,"endTime":738.6,"body":"you do do you do? Do you front"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":738.6,"endTime":741.48,"body":"load all of that? Or do you do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":738.6,"endTime":741.48,"body":"it as they go along? Or do you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":741.48,"endTime":743.64,"body":"work with the children to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":741.48,"endTime":743.64,"body":"identify what they need to know?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":744.75,"endTime":745.83,"body":"If that makes sense?"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":746.04,"endTime":752.52,"body":"It does, I think"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":746.04,"endTime":752.52,"body":"we're definitely without without"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":752.52,"endTime":755.55,"body":"putting people under the bus, we"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":752.52,"endTime":755.55,"body":"definitely don't work with"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":755.55,"endTime":759.57,"body":"students individually, to see"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":755.55,"endTime":759.57,"body":"how we can develop those"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":759.57,"endTime":762.93,"body":"individually to become"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":759.57,"endTime":762.93,"body":"designers. And I think that,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":762.93,"endTime":766.65,"body":"again, is a time constraint, we"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":762.93,"endTime":766.65,"body":"do work on a rotation within our"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":766.65,"endTime":771.69,"body":"school. So I'll see my students"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":766.65,"endTime":771.69,"body":"for 910 weeks, and then the go"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":771.69,"endTime":774.48,"body":"to another rotation. And then"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":771.69,"endTime":774.48,"body":"another teacher sees them and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":774.87,"endTime":778.59,"body":"they teach them a different area"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":774.87,"endTime":778.59,"body":"of Design and Technology, I do"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":778.59,"endTime":783.9,"body":"think, in other classrooms is"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":778.59,"endTime":783.9,"body":"against skills based. So it's"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":783.9,"endTime":786.9,"body":"about building up the skills or"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":783.9,"endTime":786.9,"body":"graphics, they learn how to use"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":786.93,"endTime":791.31,"body":"illustrate as a create call for"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":786.93,"endTime":791.31,"body":"book covers, and game"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":791.31,"endTime":794.64,"body":"illustration, and so on and so"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":791.31,"endTime":794.64,"body":"forth. So I do think it's about"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":794.67,"endTime":798.78,"body":"building those skills. So then"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":794.67,"endTime":798.78,"body":"later on, when given a brief"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":798.78,"endTime":802.26,"body":"that can use those skills to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":798.78,"endTime":802.26,"body":"then actually be able to apply"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":802.26,"endTime":807.18,"body":"it to design. So I do think we"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":802.26,"endTime":807.18,"body":"do set the foundation for that."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":807.36,"endTime":811.47,"body":"And I think the more processes"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":807.36,"endTime":811.47,"body":"that they have a better"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":811.47,"endTime":815.22,"body":"understanding, then that does"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":811.47,"endTime":815.22,"body":"help with that design."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":815.52,"endTime":818.79,"body":"process. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":815.52,"endTime":818.79,"body":"it's really tricky, isn't it is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":818.79,"endTime":821.58,"body":"there's there's a potentially a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":818.79,"endTime":821.58,"body":"huge knowledge base isn't the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":821.58,"endTime":825.96,"body":"design and technology of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":821.58,"endTime":825.96,"body":"processes, skills, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":825.96,"endTime":827.97,"body":"sort of the conceptual"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":825.96,"endTime":827.97,"body":"knowledge, the design,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":827.97,"endTime":830.58,"body":"knowledge, technological"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":827.97,"endTime":830.58,"body":"knowledge, and so on. There's a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":830.58,"endTime":835.47,"body":"huge base of it. And it's, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":830.58,"endTime":835.47,"body":"it's where you, as a teacher"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":835.47,"endTime":839.46,"body":"decide that that there's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":835.47,"endTime":839.46,"body":"sufficient, I mean that the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":839.46,"endTime":843.15,"body":"children have sufficient but you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":839.46,"endTime":843.15,"body":"can't do all of it. By any"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":843.15,"endTime":843.39,"body":"stretch,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":843.42,"endTime":847.02,"body":"even in my teacher"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":843.42,"endTime":847.02,"body":"train. And I remember the person"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":847.02,"endTime":851.22,"body":"overseeing like the tutor that"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":847.02,"endTime":851.22,"body":"oversaw the teacher training for"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":851.25,"endTime":854.7,"body":"our regional area, that would"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":851.25,"endTime":854.7,"body":"design technology, the subject"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":854.7,"endTime":857.88,"body":"knowledge, you can never get"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":854.7,"endTime":857.88,"body":"excellent on that. Because"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":857.88,"endTime":861.09,"body":"there's just so much with the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":857.88,"endTime":861.09,"body":"same science, you can never have"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":861.48,"endTime":865.68,"body":"excellent science knowledge."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":861.48,"endTime":865.68,"body":"Because there's so much. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":866.04,"endTime":868.2,"body":"I think that's I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":866.04,"endTime":868.2,"body":"think that's true in most"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":868.2,"endTime":870.15,"body":"subjects. I think you can think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":868.2,"endTime":870.15,"body":"about saying about history and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":870.15,"endTime":875.1,"body":"geography, as well. And it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":870.15,"endTime":875.1,"body":"about what's kind of sufficient,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":875.13,"endTime":878.01,"body":"isn't it? And so then when"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":875.13,"endTime":878.01,"body":"you're thinking about the design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":878.01,"endTime":881.61,"body":"activities that you're giving"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":878.01,"endTime":881.61,"body":"pupils, it's kind of planning"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":881.61,"endTime":885.72,"body":"that knowledge and yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":881.61,"endTime":885.72,"body":"the rotation system, it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":887.07,"endTime":889.26,"body":"sometimes it's a necessary evil"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":887.07,"endTime":889.26,"body":"isn't out."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":889.56,"endTime":893.1,"body":"Yeah, there are. I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":889.56,"endTime":893.1,"body":"have worked in schools where"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":893.16,"endTime":897.3,"body":"I've been with the full class"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":893.16,"endTime":897.3,"body":"for the full year. And I do"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":897.3,"endTime":900.81,"body":"think that is a better process"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":897.3,"endTime":900.81,"body":"in some respects. But then at"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":900.81,"endTime":904.71,"body":"the same time, sometimes when"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":900.81,"endTime":904.71,"body":"you get a difficult class, it's"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":904.83,"endTime":908.25,"body":"better to only see them for a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":904.83,"endTime":908.25,"body":"short period of time. And then"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":908.25,"endTime":911.46,"body":"so that the good one is someone"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":908.25,"endTime":911.46,"body":"else. And then it kind of"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":911.58,"endTime":917.55,"body":"lessens the sort of burden both"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":911.58,"endTime":917.55,"body":"the stress the anxiety, that"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":917.55,"endTime":921.81,"body":"yeah, because it can be tiring"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":917.55,"endTime":921.81,"body":"sometimes. But we are fortunate"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":921.81,"endTime":925.59,"body":"than other schools in that we do"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":921.81,"endTime":925.59,"body":"teach design and technology. Two"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":925.59,"endTime":930.03,"body":"lessons a week. Yeah, because I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":925.59,"endTime":930.03,"body":"know some schools are limited to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":930.03,"endTime":935.97,"body":"just the one. So we do have an I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":930.03,"endTime":935.97,"body":"do feel a lot of the projects"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":935.97,"endTime":940.59,"body":"that we create, as well, are"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":935.97,"endTime":940.59,"body":"always in mind have given them"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":940.59,"endTime":944.04,"body":"the knowledge needed for the key"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":940.59,"endTime":944.04,"body":"stage four. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":944.55,"endTime":946.23,"body":"what do you think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":944.55,"endTime":946.23,"body":"makes you plan a curriculum is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":946.23,"endTime":948.33,"body":"looking at the key stage four,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":946.23,"endTime":948.33,"body":"think about what that means for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":948.33,"endTime":949.14,"body":"key stage three?"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":951.03,"endTime":955.86,"body":"For attainment,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":951.03,"endTime":955.86,"body":"reasons, and progress, yes. And"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":955.86,"endTime":960.9,"body":"two terms of in terms of being a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":955.86,"endTime":960.9,"body":"designer, possibly not know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":961.23,"endTime":962.97,"body":"but do you see"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":961.23,"endTime":962.97,"body":"that as a purpose of design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":962.97,"endTime":964.86,"body":"technologies to develop them as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":962.97,"endTime":964.86,"body":"designers"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":966.39,"endTime":969.66,"body":"as and when I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":966.39,"endTime":969.66,"body":"remember when it was my first"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":969.66,"endTime":973.83,"body":"year of teaching, and I was all"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":969.66,"endTime":973.83,"body":"all the going to come in, and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":973.83,"endTime":976.8,"body":"they're going to sit around a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":973.83,"endTime":976.8,"body":"table, and I'm not going to give"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":976.8,"endTime":979.47,"body":"them any solutions to anything"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":976.8,"endTime":979.47,"body":"and I'm going to make them"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":979.47,"endTime":983.13,"body":"become the solution. They're"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":979.47,"endTime":983.13,"body":"going to think that their own"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":983.13,"endTime":985.53,"body":"solutions, and they're not going"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":983.13,"endTime":985.53,"body":"to have me spoon feeding them"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":985.53,"endTime":989.28,"body":"this information. And then as"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":985.53,"endTime":989.28,"body":"the time has gone on, I find"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":989.28,"endTime":993.21,"body":"myself spoon feeding them more"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":989.28,"endTime":993.21,"body":"and more information. And I do"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":993.21,"endTime":1000.56,"body":"think if you do become just"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":993.21,"endTime":1000.56,"body":"restrained by all you need to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1000.56,"endTime":1003.86,"body":"have an example. Or now you need"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1000.56,"endTime":1003.86,"body":"to have this now we need include"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1003.86,"endTime":1008.3,"body":"literacy. Now we need inclusion"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1003.86,"endTime":1008.3,"body":"and numeracy, you need to have a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1008.3,"endTime":1012.26,"body":"one point will have MFL links in"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1008.3,"endTime":1012.26,"body":"all areas across the school as"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1012.26,"endTime":1016.46,"body":"well. Yeah. And so yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1012.26,"endTime":1016.46,"body":"there's always something else"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1016.46,"endTime":1019.61,"body":"that you have to include. And,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1016.46,"endTime":1019.61,"body":"and there's a huge focus now,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1019.91,"endTime":1022.31,"body":"with careers, which is"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1019.91,"endTime":1022.31,"body":"definitely needed as well,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1022.31,"endTime":1027.71,"body":"because it makes it easier to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1022.31,"endTime":1027.71,"body":"link or give purpose to what"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1027.71,"endTime":1030.53,"body":"they're doing in school, because"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1027.71,"endTime":1030.53,"body":"this is what you'll need if you"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1030.53,"endTime":1034.04,"body":"want to progress this outside of"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1030.53,"endTime":1034.04,"body":"school. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1034.04,"endTime":1036.35,"body":"obviously, that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1034.04,"endTime":1036.35,"body":"a challenge. And I've kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1036.53,"endTime":1039.8,"body":"talked about this a few times"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1036.53,"endTime":1039.8,"body":"is, I always think I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1039.8,"endTime":1043.16,"body":"you're right, I think I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1039.8,"endTime":1043.16,"body":"you do need to, within lessons"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1043.16,"endTime":1045.59,"body":"make children aware about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1043.16,"endTime":1045.59,"body":"different careers and different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1045.59,"endTime":1049.25,"body":"options. But if we overdo that,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1045.59,"endTime":1049.25,"body":"we're always at risk of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1049.28,"endTime":1052.49,"body":"isolating the children who"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1049.28,"endTime":1052.49,"body":"aren't in don't want that from"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1052.49,"endTime":1056.78,"body":"our lessons. You know, so what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1052.49,"endTime":1056.78,"body":"is it about key stage three,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1056.78,"endTime":1060.86,"body":"that makes the subject part of a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1056.78,"endTime":1060.86,"body":"general education, we've really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1060.86,"endTime":1062.78,"body":"gone off here off the off the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1060.86,"endTime":1062.78,"body":"chapter. So I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1062.78,"endTime":1067.85,"body":"apologise to Nikki. today. Thank"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1062.78,"endTime":1067.85,"body":"you. I'm not talking about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1067.88,"endTime":1071.21,"body":"design cognition. We're talking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1067.88,"endTime":1071.21,"body":"about the practicalities around"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1071.21,"endTime":1075.71,"body":"it. Yes. But you have these, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1071.21,"endTime":1075.71,"body":"have these theories. But it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1075.71,"endTime":1077.69,"body":"like, well, what do you do?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1075.71,"endTime":1077.69,"body":"You've got them for nine weeks,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1077.69,"endTime":1081.56,"body":"you've got them? What, two hours"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1077.69,"endTime":1081.56,"body":"a week, 18 hours? You've got a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1081.56,"endTime":1085.94,"body":"certain bulk of knowledge to get"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1081.56,"endTime":1085.94,"body":"through. Does it have to be a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1085.94,"endTime":1088.43,"body":"designer make? It's not always"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1085.94,"endTime":1088.43,"body":"are they able to draw on what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1088.43,"endTime":1090.89,"body":"they've done before in previous"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1088.43,"endTime":1090.89,"body":"lessons with a different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1090.89,"endTime":1093.71,"body":"teacher? Do you know what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1090.89,"endTime":1093.71,"body":"they've done? And oh, by the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1093.71,"endTime":1095.81,"body":"way, Could you could you just"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1093.71,"endTime":1095.81,"body":"talk a little bit of literacy,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1095.81,"endTime":1099.47,"body":"numeracy and MFL into it and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1095.81,"endTime":1099.47,"body":"give a bit of crazy advice. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1100.67,"endTime":1103.43,"body":"yeah, the practicalities of it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1100.67,"endTime":1103.43,"body":"all are really tough, aren't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1103.43,"endTime":1103.73,"body":"they?"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1103.79,"endTime":1107.42,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. So if"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1103.79,"endTime":1107.42,"body":"I was just asked you, Allison"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1107.42,"endTime":1118.22,"body":"them, what do you think? Give it"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1107.42,"endTime":1118.22,"body":"a try. We'll edit it later. So"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1118.25,"endTime":1123.17,"body":"if you were to say, we're going"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1118.25,"endTime":1123.17,"body":"to create better designers, or"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1123.17,"endTime":1126.86,"body":"people are evolved, or the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1123.17,"endTime":1126.86,"body":"teacher but design process, what"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1126.86,"endTime":1128.45,"body":"do you think that would look"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1126.86,"endTime":1128.45,"body":"like?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1129.05,"endTime":1131.42,"body":"I wouldn't do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1129.05,"endTime":1131.42,"body":"either of those things. What"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1131.42,"endTime":1135.86,"body":"would you do them? So so let me"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1131.42,"endTime":1135.86,"body":"explain why. So firstly, I don't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1135.86,"endTime":1139.67,"body":"believe design and technology is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1135.86,"endTime":1139.67,"body":"about creating designers. Right?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1139.88,"endTime":1143.33,"body":"Okay. I believe design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1139.88,"endTime":1143.33,"body":"technology is a key part of a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1143.33,"endTime":1145.58,"body":"general education. And so if we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1143.33,"endTime":1145.58,"body":"start talking about creative"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1145.58,"endTime":1148.64,"body":"designers, they're not they're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1145.58,"endTime":1148.64,"body":"not all going to, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1148.64,"endTime":1153.68,"body":"about them, developing the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1148.64,"endTime":1153.68,"body":"ability to change things around"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1153.68,"endTime":1157.94,"body":"them and be involved in that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1153.68,"endTime":1157.94,"body":"designing. But I think that goes"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1157.94,"endTime":1160.94,"body":"beyond a career. But I also"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1157.94,"endTime":1160.94,"body":"think it's about them, being"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1160.94,"endTime":1164.78,"body":"able to be part of a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1160.94,"endTime":1164.78,"body":"technologically diverse world"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1164.78,"endTime":1167.63,"body":"and understanding the impact"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1164.78,"endTime":1167.63,"body":"that technology has on us and we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1167.63,"endTime":1171.38,"body":"have on it, and how we're part"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1167.63,"endTime":1171.38,"body":"of that as a democracy and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1171.38,"endTime":1176.0,"body":"cultural and societal aspects as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1171.38,"endTime":1176.0,"body":"well as the the economic"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1176.0,"endTime":1178.52,"body":"aspects. Sounds very grandiose,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1176.0,"endTime":1178.52,"body":"but I think you kind of know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1178.88,"endTime":1181.22,"body":"you know, kind of where I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1178.88,"endTime":1181.22,"body":"talking about. This is where I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1181.22,"endTime":1184.7,"body":"put my academic hat on, and I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1181.22,"endTime":1184.7,"body":"kind of, but no, I don't I don't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1184.7,"endTime":1186.71,"body":"believe that design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1184.7,"endTime":1186.71,"body":"technology is about creating the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1186.71,"endTime":1188.84,"body":"next generation of designers. I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1186.71,"endTime":1188.84,"body":"think that's an aspect of it,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1188.84,"endTime":1191.21,"body":"but I don't think that its"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1188.84,"endTime":1191.21,"body":"entirety. And then you said the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1191.21,"endTime":1196.46,"body":"second part was about teaching"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1191.21,"endTime":1196.46,"body":"them a design process. Right."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1196.46,"endTime":1200.48,"body":"Okay. So I don't believe there"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1196.46,"endTime":1200.48,"body":"is a single design process And I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1200.51,"endTime":1204.41,"body":"don't therefore believe that you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1200.51,"endTime":1204.41,"body":"can teach one. And I think what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1204.41,"endTime":1208.49,"body":"does happen is when I've done it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1204.41,"endTime":1208.49,"body":"when I was teaching, when we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1208.49,"endTime":1213.17,"body":"plan a scheme of work, we plan"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1208.49,"endTime":1213.17,"body":"it as a linear process, which we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1213.17,"endTime":1216.71,"body":"all know is false that we don't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1213.17,"endTime":1216.71,"body":"that, you know, okay, we'll go"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1216.74,"endTime":1219.38,"body":"against what I've just said,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1216.74,"endTime":1219.38,"body":"that what happens in the way"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1219.38,"endTime":1221.75,"body":"that all of us do design,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1219.38,"endTime":1221.75,"body":"whether we're designers, or"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1221.75,"endTime":1226.85,"body":"we're just designing, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1221.75,"endTime":1226.85,"body":"just to be an army. We don't do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1226.85,"endTime":1229.13,"body":"it in that linear, I would write"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1226.85,"endTime":1229.13,"body":"a design brief. And then I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1229.13,"endTime":1230.69,"body":"going to do some research. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1229.13,"endTime":1230.69,"body":"I'm going to write a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1230.69,"endTime":1232.52,"body":"questionnaire. And I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1230.69,"endTime":1232.52,"body":"do this, and I'm going to write"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1232.52,"endTime":1234.86,"body":"it. So we're going to do it like"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1232.52,"endTime":1234.86,"body":"that. But we end up planning it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1234.86,"endTime":1238.37,"body":"like that. And then what happens"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1234.86,"endTime":1238.37,"body":"is we think is the teacher that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1238.37,"endTime":1243.17,"body":"the pupils are learning, the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1238.37,"endTime":1243.17,"body":"design process or a process of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1243.17,"endTime":1246.14,"body":"designing? Because that's how"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1243.17,"endTime":1246.14,"body":"we've planned it. But at no"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1246.14,"endTime":1249.44,"body":"point have we made it explicit."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1246.14,"endTime":1249.44,"body":"So there's a couple of things. I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1249.44,"endTime":1251.45,"body":"don't believe there's a linear"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1249.44,"endTime":1251.45,"body":"process, I don't believe there"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1251.45,"endTime":1254.6,"body":"is a single design process. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1251.45,"endTime":1254.6,"body":"I don't believe sometimes when"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1254.6,"endTime":1257.03,"body":"we're planning our lessons that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1254.6,"endTime":1257.03,"body":"children are actually learning"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1257.72,"endTime":1262.85,"body":"that false idea. Anyway, so"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1257.72,"endTime":1262.85,"body":"that's me off on my high horse."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1263.21,"endTime":1265.76,"body":"You see, you see, this is the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1263.21,"endTime":1265.76,"body":"problem. This is why I don't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1265.76,"endTime":1268.04,"body":"allow people to ask me"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1265.76,"endTime":1268.04,"body":"questions, because I'll just go"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1268.04,"endTime":1272.45,"body":"off on one. And I've got"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1268.04,"endTime":1272.45,"body":"something at some point, I've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1272.45,"endTime":1277.34,"body":"got a real mannequin. So So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1272.45,"endTime":1277.34,"body":"where does that where does that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1277.34,"endTime":1281.27,"body":"leave us? Because I think what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1277.34,"endTime":1281.27,"body":"we get confused about to me as a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1281.27,"endTime":1284.33,"body":"designer make activity that a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1281.27,"endTime":1284.33,"body":"teacher plans is a pedagogy."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1284.6,"endTime":1288.02,"body":"It's not curriculum, okay. What"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1284.6,"endTime":1288.02,"body":"we've got to think about is what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1288.02,"endTime":1290.84,"body":"we're doing with the curriculum,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1288.02,"endTime":1290.84,"body":"what we're trying to get to, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1290.84,"endTime":1293.69,"body":"we're developing to me, DNC"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1290.84,"endTime":1293.69,"body":"capability, and this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1293.72,"endTime":1297.71,"body":"technological awareness,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1293.72,"endTime":1297.71,"body":"understanding interaction when"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1297.71,"endTime":1302.06,"body":"able to be part of a democracy,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1297.71,"endTime":1302.06,"body":"and appreciate it, and also"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1302.06,"endTime":1308.45,"body":"critique it. So you do have to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1302.06,"endTime":1308.45,"body":"give them opportunities to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1308.48,"endTime":1310.73,"body":"design and I think that happens"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1308.48,"endTime":1310.73,"body":"from year one, right the way"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1310.73,"endTime":1317.87,"body":"through to Year 11. And so I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1310.73,"endTime":1317.87,"body":"think they learn strategies,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1317.9,"endTime":1320.66,"body":"design strategies, how they can"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1317.9,"endTime":1320.66,"body":"design, how they can generate"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1320.69,"endTime":1323.27,"body":"designs, they can learn about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1320.69,"endTime":1323.27,"body":"writing specifications, what a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1323.27,"endTime":1326.48,"body":"spec does, you know, criteria,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1323.27,"endTime":1326.48,"body":"that there's different types of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1326.48,"endTime":1329.63,"body":"specs as they progress through,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1326.48,"endTime":1329.63,"body":"they can learn different ways of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1329.63,"endTime":1332.33,"body":"communicating does not mean"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1329.63,"endTime":1332.33,"body":"they're design ideas. And this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1332.33,"endTime":1334.7,"body":"kind of comes back back to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1332.33,"endTime":1334.7,"body":"Nikki's talking about that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1334.7,"endTime":1337.43,"body":"externalisation and making the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1334.7,"endTime":1337.43,"body":"mark on the paper, that there's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1337.43,"endTime":1341.57,"body":"different ways of doing it for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1337.43,"endTime":1341.57,"body":"different purposes. I think it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1341.57,"endTime":1346.25,"body":"for a teacher to design a scheme"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1341.57,"endTime":1346.25,"body":"of work that is sometimes"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1346.25,"endTime":1348.95,"body":"teaching those things in quite a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1346.25,"endTime":1348.95,"body":"structured way that they're then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1348.95,"endTime":1352.22,"body":"expected to use them as they're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1348.95,"endTime":1352.22,"body":"responding to a design context."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1352.67,"endTime":1356.87,"body":"And other times, it's more open"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1352.67,"endTime":1356.87,"body":"ended, which may well lead more"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1356.87,"endTime":1363.41,"body":"into an assessment than into a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1356.87,"endTime":1363.41,"body":"unit of work. That is where the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1363.41,"endTime":1365.9,"body":"children are given a context,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1363.41,"endTime":1365.9,"body":"which is kind of the NCAA, but I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1365.9,"endTime":1369.59,"body":"think we should be doing that in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1365.9,"endTime":1369.59,"body":"year three, year six, year"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1369.74,"endTime":1373.61,"body":"eight, and nine as well as year"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1369.74,"endTime":1373.61,"body":"11. But the teacher is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1373.61,"endTime":1376.46,"body":"sophisticated in their thinking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1373.61,"endTime":1376.46,"body":"that they give parameters to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1376.46,"endTime":1379.49,"body":"that design context, so that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1376.46,"endTime":1379.49,"body":"they know that they're have been"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1379.49,"endTime":1382.79,"body":"expected to draw on things that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1379.49,"endTime":1382.79,"body":"they've learned teen years one"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1382.79,"endTime":1387.92,"body":"and years two, or four, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1382.79,"endTime":1387.92,"body":"five, and so on, when they're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1387.92,"endTime":1389.39,"body":"being assessed. And I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1387.92,"endTime":1389.39,"body":"that's the other thing that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1389.39,"endTime":1392.48,"body":"happens is we do these units of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1389.39,"endTime":1392.48,"body":"work schemes of work that are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1392.48,"endTime":1395.93,"body":"designed and make that on one"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1392.48,"endTime":1395.93,"body":"level, people can't see this,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1395.93,"endTime":1398.36,"body":"but I'm waving my hands all over"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1395.93,"endTime":1398.36,"body":"the place with different levels."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1398.6,"endTime":1401.3,"body":"But on one level, the teacher"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1398.6,"endTime":1401.3,"body":"has planned a linear design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1401.3,"endTime":1404.54,"body":"process, which is false, but"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1401.3,"endTime":1404.54,"body":"then assumes that the pupils are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1404.54,"endTime":1407.12,"body":"going to learn that process,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1404.54,"endTime":1407.12,"body":"which they don't, because we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1407.24,"endTime":1409.16,"body":"were not really explicitly"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1407.24,"endTime":1409.16,"body":"telling them and it's false"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1409.16,"endTime":1411.2,"body":"anyway, because there's no such"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1409.16,"endTime":1411.2,"body":"thing as a linear design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1411.2,"endTime":1415.16,"body":"process. That when they do it,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1411.2,"endTime":1415.16,"body":"we don't give them enough"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1415.52,"endTime":1419.0,"body":"ability to make choices to be"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1415.52,"endTime":1419.0,"body":"autonomous. So they're not kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1419.0,"endTime":1421.7,"body":"of drawing on things that they"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1419.0,"endTime":1421.7,"body":"can go already from other"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1421.7,"endTime":1424.34,"body":"projects from other parts of the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1421.7,"endTime":1424.34,"body":"quick, you know, design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1424.34,"endTime":1427.19,"body":"technology curriculum into this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1424.34,"endTime":1427.19,"body":"realistic thing. And then I'll"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1427.19,"endTime":1429.2,"body":"tell you what was on all of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1427.19,"endTime":1429.2,"body":"that, and then let's layer on"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1429.2,"endTime":1431.21,"body":"top of it or not, we're not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1429.2,"endTime":1431.21,"body":"giving them any design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1431.21,"endTime":1433.97,"body":"decisions, as you just talked"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1431.21,"endTime":1433.97,"body":"about with your microbead not to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1433.97,"endTime":1437.69,"body":"criticise your mic, your mic,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1433.97,"endTime":1437.69,"body":"you know microcontrollers. But,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1437.72,"endTime":1440.33,"body":"you know, we're trying to do too"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1437.72,"endTime":1440.33,"body":"many things. And then we give"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1440.33,"endTime":1444.35,"body":"them any design decisions that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1440.33,"endTime":1444.35,"body":"are real, that are authentic."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1444.89,"endTime":1447.02,"body":"And then on top of that, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1444.89,"endTime":1447.02,"body":"know, what was let's make sure"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1447.02,"endTime":1451.07,"body":"we're gonna assess it along the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1447.02,"endTime":1451.07,"body":"way and you thinking how we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1451.07,"endTime":1454.31,"body":"can't we can't do all of that in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1451.07,"endTime":1454.31,"body":"one designer make which is then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1454.31,"endTime":1458.36,"body":"where the rotations kind of let"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1454.31,"endTime":1458.36,"body":"down because then we kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1458.36,"endTime":1462.38,"body":"falsely and I've done it right,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1458.36,"endTime":1462.38,"body":"so I'm not kind of saying you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1462.38,"endTime":1466.04,"body":"know, little little doctors, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1462.38,"endTime":1466.04,"body":"know, Doctor was perfect Hardy"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1466.04,"endTime":1472.25,"body":"over here because I'm not right."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1466.04,"endTime":1472.25,"body":"I'm on the way, but I'm not you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1472.25,"endTime":1479.03,"body":"know. But, you know, we get we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1472.25,"endTime":1479.03,"body":"get stuck in this that every"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1479.03,"endTime":1481.01,"body":"rotation has to be a full design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1479.03,"endTime":1481.01,"body":"and make"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1482.06,"endTime":1484.55,"body":"that we are very"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1482.06,"endTime":1484.55,"body":"much stuck in that yes or her"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1485.15,"endTime":1486.05,"body":"completely agree."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1486.919,"endTime":1490.039,"body":"And so, so where"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1486.919,"endTime":1490.039,"body":"do we wait? So I think I think a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1490.039,"endTime":1493.369,"body":"good design and technology"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1490.039,"endTime":1493.369,"body":"curriculum is layered. And it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1493.369,"endTime":1495.499,"body":"has to be looked at in the long"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1493.369,"endTime":1495.499,"body":"term. What are we building"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1495.499,"endTime":1499.849,"body":"towards? Not in Key Stage Four"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1495.499,"endTime":1499.849,"body":"in the key stage three National"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1499.849,"endTime":1502.369,"body":"Career Because well, the key"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1499.849,"endTime":1502.369,"body":"stage one and two national"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1502.369,"endTime":1505.279,"body":"curriculum, let's look at those"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1502.369,"endTime":1505.279,"body":"things in isolation. They are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1505.279,"endTime":1510.499,"body":"designed for progression"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1505.279,"endTime":1510.499,"body":"themselves anyway. And that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1510.499,"endTime":1514.549,"body":"all about a general education"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1510.499,"endTime":1514.549,"body":"and all and all pupils. I feel"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1514.549,"endTime":1517.279,"body":"like I'm becoming slightly"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1514.549,"endTime":1517.279,"body":"incoherent now, you know, I mean"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1517.279,"endTime":1520.249,"body":"that I'm kind of losing my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1517.279,"endTime":1520.249,"body":"thread through lots of Does"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1520.249,"endTime":1521.569,"body":"that, does that make any sense"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1520.249,"endTime":1521.569,"body":"to him?"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1521.57,"endTime":1523.43,"body":"I know what I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1521.57,"endTime":1523.43,"body":"mean, it's clearly not essence."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1523.43,"endTime":1526.88,"body":"Yeah, I think you are completely"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1523.43,"endTime":1526.88,"body":"right in the sense that it is"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1526.88,"endTime":1531.32,"body":"not just a case of design and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1526.88,"endTime":1531.32,"body":"make and we are design and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1531.32,"endTime":1536.69,"body":"technology is something that is"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1531.32,"endTime":1536.69,"body":"super important to all subjects"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1536.69,"endTime":1539.36,"body":"across the school and can be"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1536.69,"endTime":1539.36,"body":"linked to all subjects within"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1539.36,"endTime":1542.84,"body":"the school. And then as a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1539.36,"endTime":1542.84,"body":"result, if we can make those"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1542.84,"endTime":1545.48,"body":"connections as well, I'll make"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1542.84,"endTime":1545.48,"body":"those links and draw upon that"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1545.48,"endTime":1549.05,"body":"information. That knowledge that"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1545.48,"endTime":1549.05,"body":"understanding, isn't that then"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1549.05,"endTime":1554.96,"body":"what we're hoping that our"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1549.05,"endTime":1554.96,"body":"future? Technologists become? I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1554.96,"endTime":1556.82,"body":"wouldn't say design as anymore,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1554.96,"endTime":1556.82,"body":"because we're not creating"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1556.82,"endTime":1557.24,"body":"design, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1557.24,"endTime":1563.57,"body":"what does that?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1557.24,"endTime":1563.57,"body":"Go? You know, I mean, I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1563.57,"endTime":1565.82,"body":"do have some dispute with parts"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1563.57,"endTime":1565.82,"body":"of national curriculum, but"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1565.82,"endTime":1569.48,"body":"we're creating educated"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1565.82,"endTime":1569.48,"body":"citizens, we can all, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1569.51,"endTime":1573.59,"body":"debate what I mean by an"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1569.51,"endTime":1573.59,"body":"educated, I kind of take Michael"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1573.59,"endTime":1577.31,"body":"rice and John White's view that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1573.59,"endTime":1577.31,"body":"it's about enabling young people"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1577.31,"endTime":1580.28,"body":"to have a flourishing life and,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1577.31,"endTime":1580.28,"body":"and a by them having a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1580.28,"endTime":1583.34,"body":"flourishing life that they can"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1580.28,"endTime":1583.34,"body":"enable other people to, as well."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1583.85,"endTime":1586.85,"body":"So I kind of that's that's kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1583.85,"endTime":1586.85,"body":"of where I sit about my beliefs"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1586.85,"endTime":1589.28,"body":"about education. I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1586.85,"endTime":1589.28,"body":"somebody will come back to me"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1589.28,"endTime":1595.4,"body":"and go, that's really awfully."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1589.28,"endTime":1595.4,"body":"But yeah, so I think those"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1595.4,"endTime":1597.74,"body":"things about design technology"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1595.4,"endTime":1597.74,"body":"capability, technological"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1597.74,"endTime":1601.13,"body":"awareness, understanding"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1597.74,"endTime":1601.13,"body":"critique, is all about about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1601.13,"endTime":1605.54,"body":"flourishing. Yeah. You know, in,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1601.13,"endTime":1605.54,"body":"in, in the, in the broadest"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1605.54,"endTime":1609.71,"body":"sense. Not just economically."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1610.85,"endTime":1613.67,"body":"If I can make a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1610.85,"endTime":1613.67,"body":"reference back to when you said"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1613.67,"endTime":1618.38,"body":"about in key stage one, and key"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1613.67,"endTime":1618.38,"body":"stage two, and then so on. And"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1618.44,"endTime":1621.5,"body":"I've got two children that both"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1618.44,"endTime":1621.5,"body":"been through primary school that"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1621.5,"endTime":1625.52,"body":"are both in secondary school."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1621.5,"endTime":1625.52,"body":"And I remember them coming home,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1625.88,"endTime":1630.05,"body":"and telling me about the DT XB"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1625.88,"endTime":1630.05,"body":"adiante experiences in primary"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1630.05,"endTime":1637.28,"body":"school. And Oh, my word"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1630.05,"endTime":1637.28,"body":"devastated, was designed to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1637.28,"endTime":1642.95,"body":"game. And I went, all right, a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1637.28,"endTime":1642.95,"body":"board game. And I was just like,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1642.95,"endTime":1647.81,"body":"so well, how will you how we"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1642.95,"endTime":1647.81,"body":"asked to meet again, we just got"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1647.93,"endTime":1653.72,"body":"given with no just got all the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1647.93,"endTime":1653.72,"body":"design again. So they weren't"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1653.72,"endTime":1656.21,"body":"given any knowledge. They"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1653.72,"endTime":1656.21,"body":"weren't given any understanding"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1656.21,"endTime":1659.54,"body":"they weren't given. Also, a good"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1656.21,"endTime":1659.54,"body":"game will have the starting"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1659.54,"endTime":1661.73,"body":"point or finish might have"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1659.54,"endTime":1661.73,"body":"begun. Certainly, there was no"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1661.73,"endTime":1665.54,"body":"criteria, what it is that what"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1661.73,"endTime":1665.54,"body":"good looks like, I know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1665.54,"endTime":1668.45,"body":"then going on to cases three"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1665.54,"endTime":1668.45,"body":"rounds in an example. And that's"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1668.45,"endTime":1672.86,"body":"not what I mean. But the We"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1668.45,"endTime":1672.86,"body":"Still especially Key Stage One"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1672.86,"endTime":1678.92,"body":"and Key Stage Two, they need to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1672.86,"endTime":1678.92,"body":"have some kind of understanding"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1678.92,"endTime":1681.56,"body":"of how they can come up with"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1678.92,"endTime":1681.56,"body":"these ideas."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1682.61,"endTime":1685.55,"body":"That some"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1682.61,"endTime":1685.55,"body":"Blackhawks designs. Yes. You"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1685.55,"endTime":1686.15,"body":"know, and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1686.57,"endTime":1689.39,"body":"that wasn't given"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1686.57,"endTime":1689.39,"body":"it was just a just drawdown"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1689.39,"endTime":1691.19,"body":"again. And I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1691.19,"endTime":1692.51,"body":"I think we got to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1691.19,"endTime":1692.51,"body":"be fair to our primary"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1692.51,"endTime":1698.27,"body":"colleagues, you know, in terms"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1692.51,"endTime":1698.27,"body":"of No, no, so let's make it I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1698.27,"endTime":1700.46,"body":"didn't think you were white. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1698.27,"endTime":1700.46,"body":"we've got to be careful here."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1700.46,"endTime":1700.76,"body":"Certainly,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1700.76,"endTime":1703.73,"body":"definitely. If"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1700.76,"endTime":1703.73,"body":"your primary school teachers and"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1703.73,"endTime":1705.35,"body":"that that's definitely not what"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1703.73,"endTime":1705.35,"body":"I'm saying."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1705.56,"endTime":1708.68,"body":"No, but I just"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1705.56,"endTime":1708.68,"body":"think, again, it's about the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1708.68,"endTime":1711.83,"body":"status a subject has in primary"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1708.68,"endTime":1711.83,"body":"were things that are measured"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1711.83,"endTime":1716.81,"body":"and things that aren't measured."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1711.83,"endTime":1716.81,"body":"And so the prioritisation but I,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1717.02,"endTime":1719.21,"body":"I have been picking up that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1717.02,"endTime":1719.21,"body":"actually, there's been quite a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1719.21,"endTime":1723.53,"body":"shift in primary schools in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1719.21,"endTime":1723.53,"body":"terms of the focus of design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1723.53,"endTime":1726.77,"body":"technology. I mean, I'm getting"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1723.53,"endTime":1726.77,"body":"more and more queries, myself"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1726.77,"endTime":1729.56,"body":"from primary schools wanting me"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1726.77,"endTime":1729.56,"body":"to do consultancy about, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1729.56,"endTime":1732.14,"body":"know, their primary curriculum,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1729.56,"endTime":1732.14,"body":"which I'm not an expert on."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1732.62,"endTime":1735.44,"body":"There's a team of as at the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1732.62,"endTime":1735.44,"body":"university that we do design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1735.44,"endTime":1738.86,"body":"technology consultancy, and I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1735.44,"endTime":1738.86,"body":"have a colleague Suzanne, who"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1738.86,"endTime":1741.47,"body":"leads on that and there's more"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1738.86,"endTime":1741.47,"body":"and more coming in, which I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1741.47,"endTime":1745.04,"body":"think is really exciting. Not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1741.47,"endTime":1745.04,"body":"just from our perspective,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1745.04,"endTime":1747.53,"body":"because we get more work but"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1745.04,"endTime":1747.53,"body":"more from the perspective that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1747.8,"endTime":1750.32,"body":"people are recognising the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1747.8,"endTime":1750.32,"body":"importance of the subject in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1750.32,"endTime":1754.61,"body":"primary and recognising what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1750.32,"endTime":1754.61,"body":"what they want to do. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1754.61,"endTime":1758.9,"body":"I just think I think we've got"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1754.61,"endTime":1758.9,"body":"to meet a matt McLean talks"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1758.9,"endTime":1762.8,"body":"about this in the in the debates"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1758.9,"endTime":1762.8,"body":"book about that we've got to be"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1762.8,"endTime":1765.71,"body":"careful that the design and make"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1762.8,"endTime":1765.71,"body":"doesn't become the whole thing."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1768.26,"endTime":1770.3,"body":"Because actually, then it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1768.26,"endTime":1770.3,"body":"becomes a false thing. Because"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1770.33,"endTime":1773.06,"body":"you know, it's not a design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1770.33,"endTime":1773.06,"body":"make it's a mainly make, which"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1773.06,"endTime":1776.81,"body":"is fine. But let's, let's call"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1773.06,"endTime":1776.81,"body":"it, let's call it what it is."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1777.02,"endTime":1781.07,"body":"And I'm going to bring us back"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1777.02,"endTime":1781.07,"body":"to Matt's chapter after you've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1781.07,"endTime":1784.91,"body":"put me on the spot and let me go"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1781.07,"endTime":1784.91,"body":"off for a while."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1785.24,"endTime":1786.89,"body":"You put me on the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1785.24,"endTime":1786.89,"body":"spot at the beginning."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1787.85,"endTime":1791.45,"body":"It's my podcast."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1787.85,"endTime":1791.45,"body":"Yes, thanks."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1799.46,"endTime":1807.35,"body":"So I can't believe I've been"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1799.46,"endTime":1807.35,"body":"given rope to hang myself there"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1807.35,"endTime":1813.38,"body":"anyway. Anyway. So in terms of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1807.35,"endTime":1813.38,"body":"Nikki's idea about extended"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1813.38,"endTime":1819.92,"body":"design cognition, how would you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1813.38,"endTime":1819.92,"body":"ask me what I really like to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1819.92,"endTime":1823.91,"body":"give this example isn't about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1819.92,"endTime":1823.91,"body":"sticky notes, and so on. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1824.21,"endTime":1827.66,"body":"what I really like is that it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1824.21,"endTime":1827.66,"body":"not just I mean, people go, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1827.66,"endTime":1829.82,"body":"we use sticky notes, we get kids"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1827.66,"endTime":1829.82,"body":"to post stuff on post it notes"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1829.82,"endTime":1832.19,"body":"and put it all over. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1829.82,"endTime":1832.19,"body":"actually, he takes it further"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1832.19,"endTime":1835.22,"body":"on, and you know, talks about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1832.19,"endTime":1835.22,"body":"them, putting it by theme, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1835.22,"endTime":1837.92,"body":"coming up with ideas from that."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1835.22,"endTime":1837.92,"body":"And but also, then I really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1837.92,"endTime":1841.01,"body":"liked the fact that he, if we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1837.92,"endTime":1841.01,"body":"want to foster Extended"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1841.01,"endTime":1845.9,"body":"Thinking, they have to return to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1841.01,"endTime":1845.9,"body":"them and reuse them throughout"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1845.9,"endTime":1849.23,"body":"the various stages of them"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1845.9,"endTime":1849.23,"body":"designing to, to support that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1849.23,"endTime":1851.99,"body":"extended thinking. And I thought"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1849.23,"endTime":1851.99,"body":"that was really interesting. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1851.99,"endTime":1854.24,"body":"I do think we do that sometimes"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1851.99,"endTime":1854.24,"body":"in design and technology, we do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1854.24,"endTime":1858.35,"body":"a strategy. And then we don't go"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1854.24,"endTime":1858.35,"body":"back to it, we don't kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1858.41,"endTime":1863.48,"body":"embed it within the activity,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1858.41,"endTime":1863.48,"body":"it's kind of like it's a, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1863.48,"endTime":1866.51,"body":"again, I've done this, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1863.48,"endTime":1866.51,"body":"done a single hit with"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1866.51,"endTime":1869.09,"body":"something. And then it's not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1866.51,"endTime":1869.09,"body":"going to be embedded into"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1869.09,"endTime":1873.32,"body":"children's ideas or minds about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1869.09,"endTime":1873.32,"body":"this is a strategy I can use and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1873.32,"endTime":1877.58,"body":"build on and develop. So that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1873.32,"endTime":1877.58,"body":"what I did like that is, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1877.58,"endTime":1881.93,"body":"without this understanding that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1877.58,"endTime":1881.93,"body":"the sticky notes can be reused"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1881.93,"endTime":1884.81,"body":"and revert returned to pupils"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1881.93,"endTime":1884.81,"body":"might only use sticky notes as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1884.81,"endTime":1888.2,"body":"cognitive offloading devices"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1884.81,"endTime":1888.2,"body":"without realising their"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1888.2,"endTime":1891.08,"body":"potential to help extend their"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1888.2,"endTime":1891.08,"body":"cognition."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1892.25,"endTime":1895.1,"body":"I do really like"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1892.25,"endTime":1895.1,"body":"the suggestion that you gave"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1895.1,"endTime":1898.25,"body":"actually, and I do think, I"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1895.1,"endTime":1898.25,"body":"think there's a lot of time when"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1898.25,"endTime":1902.06,"body":"we're trying to explain the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1898.25,"endTime":1902.06,"body":"knowledge that understanding the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1902.06,"endTime":1907.37,"body":"process, and that we are"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1902.06,"endTime":1907.37,"body":"probably seeing things that they"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1907.37,"endTime":1910.94,"body":"might not even understand. So"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1907.37,"endTime":1910.94,"body":"instead of them trying to just"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1910.94,"endTime":1913.76,"body":"store that in your mind in the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1910.94,"endTime":1913.76,"body":"mind, they can write it down,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1913.76,"endTime":1916.52,"body":"they can let exactly what it"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1913.76,"endTime":1916.52,"body":"says they can offload these"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1916.52,"endTime":1919.88,"body":"ideas, and then they can go back"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1916.52,"endTime":1919.88,"body":"to it, and then ask those"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1919.88,"endTime":1923.51,"body":"questions again. And so what was"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1919.88,"endTime":1923.51,"body":"meant by this? And what then"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1923.51,"endTime":1927.98,"body":"they can ask those more? Just"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1923.51,"endTime":1927.98,"body":"the questions that they need to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1927.98,"endTime":1930.89,"body":"ask, like you were saying"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1927.98,"endTime":1930.89,"body":"before, for each individual"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1930.89,"endTime":1933.41,"body":"student, what is it each"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1930.89,"endTime":1933.41,"body":"individual student was able to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1933.41,"endTime":1936.38,"body":"take from what you were saying?"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1933.41,"endTime":1936.38,"body":"And then what was their"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1936.38,"endTime":1939.5,"body":"interpretation? What is their"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1936.38,"endTime":1939.5,"body":"understanding? And so on? So"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1939.5,"endTime":1941.42,"body":"yeah, I do like that idea."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1942.02,"endTime":1943.58,"body":"Yeah. And it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1942.02,"endTime":1943.58,"body":"about moving it beyond the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1943.58,"endTime":1947.36,"body":"cognitive offloading, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1943.58,"endTime":1947.36,"body":"actually planning into your unit"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1947.36,"endTime":1950.24,"body":"of work. But going back, isn't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1947.36,"endTime":1950.24,"body":"it, it's not just kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1950.27,"endTime":1952.88,"body":"letting it assuming it's going"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1950.27,"endTime":1952.88,"body":"to happen. I think that's some"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1952.88,"endTime":1955.88,"body":"of the thing that we're also"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1952.88,"endTime":1955.88,"body":"doing Dante's we assume that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1955.88,"endTime":1959.03,"body":"because we've done it once"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1955.88,"endTime":1959.03,"body":"children will know, or because"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1959.03,"endTime":1961.79,"body":"they've they've done this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1959.03,"endTime":1961.79,"body":"activity once that they will"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1961.79,"endTime":1965.57,"body":"remember, and it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1961.79,"endTime":1965.57,"body":"building that up. So that they"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1965.57,"endTime":1967.67,"body":"realise they can go back to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1965.57,"endTime":1967.67,"body":"their designs, they can go back"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1967.67,"endTime":1970.73,"body":"to their notes, they can go back"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1967.67,"endTime":1970.73,"body":"to their modelling. I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1970.73,"endTime":1972.89,"body":"not kind of like I've done it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1970.73,"endTime":1972.89,"body":"this week. And I'm moving on, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1972.89,"endTime":1976.31,"body":"think sometimes that's our, our"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1972.89,"endTime":1976.31,"body":"units of work sometimes kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1976.37,"endTime":1978.86,"body":"inhibit that. And then again, go"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1976.37,"endTime":1978.86,"body":"back to the amount of time we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":1978.86,"endTime":1980.51,"body":"have in the classroom."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1980.78,"endTime":1984.38,"body":"And I do think,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1980.78,"endTime":1984.38,"body":"because of the focus over the"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1984.38,"endTime":1989.15,"body":"last few years within schools,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1984.38,"endTime":1989.15,"body":"and then this is happened within"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1989.15,"endTime":1992.39,"body":"design and technology as well"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1989.15,"endTime":1992.39,"body":"within our school. And retrieval"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1992.39,"endTime":1997.73,"body":"practice is a huge. And so we"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1992.39,"endTime":1997.73,"body":"are always referencing magazine."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1997.94,"endTime":2001.24,"body":"So if a designer gives you a"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":1997.94,"endTime":2001.24,"body":"client even gives you a brief,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2001.27,"endTime":2002.08,"body":"what is a brief,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2002.11,"endTime":2005.2,"body":"what is the specification? What"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2002.11,"endTime":2005.2,"body":"is this? What's the aim? If"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2005.2,"endTime":2007.45,"body":"we're going to do this? What's"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2005.2,"endTime":2007.45,"body":"the properties of this material?"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2007.45,"endTime":2007.6,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2007.6,"endTime":2012.58,"body":"we are always trying to embed"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2007.6,"endTime":2012.58,"body":"more knowledge. I'm always"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2012.58,"endTime":2015.97,"body":"trying to go back to it."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2012.58,"endTime":2015.97,"body":"However, we can't go back to"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2015.97,"endTime":2020.41,"body":"everything. Yeah. So we are"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2015.97,"endTime":2020.41,"body":"always still restrained again,"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2020.74,"endTime":2022.21,"body":"as always by time."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2022.54,"endTime":2024.1,"body":"Yeah. And I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2022.54,"endTime":2024.1,"body":"that's back to this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2024.1,"endTime":2026.71,"body":"conversation. We started the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2024.1,"endTime":2026.71,"body":"beginning was, you know, what,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2026.74,"endTime":2029.5,"body":"what sufficient knowledge, you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2026.74,"endTime":2029.5,"body":"know, we can't we can't cover it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2029.5,"endTime":2035.65,"body":"all. So what's, what sufficient?"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2029.5,"endTime":2035.65,"body":"Yeah, we have to kind of work"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2035.65,"endTime":2038.98,"body":"that out so that we're not,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2035.65,"endTime":2038.98,"body":"we're not trying to do too much"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2039.07,"endTime":2039.58,"body":"within it."},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2040.03,"endTime":2042.31,"body":"And I think that"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2040.03,"endTime":2042.31,"body":"goes back to me thinking"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2043.69,"endTime":2047.26,"body":"possibly others as well, that"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2043.69,"endTime":2047.26,"body":"this efficient knowledge is what"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2047.26,"endTime":2049.33,"body":"the need for KY seed for"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2047.26,"endTime":2049.33,"body":"unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2049.87,"endTime":2052.69,"body":"yeah, yeah. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2049.87,"endTime":2052.69,"body":"I know, it's kind of a little"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2052.69,"endTime":2055.96,"body":"bit. A twinge a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2052.69,"endTime":2055.96,"body":"that. But I can I can understand"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2055.96,"endTime":2060.07,"body":"why. Why that's happening. Why"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2055.96,"endTime":2060.07,"body":"that's happening. Well, it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2060.07,"endTime":2062.59,"body":"been a really good conversation."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2060.07,"endTime":2062.59,"body":"Amanda, I'll let you off that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2062.59,"endTime":2066.61,"body":"you asked me questions. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2062.59,"endTime":2066.61,"body":"hopefully people have found that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2066.61,"endTime":2069.13,"body":"interesting. And give them a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2066.61,"endTime":2069.13,"body":"taste of going to have a look in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2069.13,"endTime":2071.65,"body":"that book chapter and, and get"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2069.13,"endTime":2071.65,"body":"the history and to read some"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2071.65,"endTime":2074.32,"body":"more of Nikki's work, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2071.65,"endTime":2074.32,"body":"he's done other stuff, talking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2074.32,"endTime":2077.11,"body":"about this and expanding on"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2074.32,"endTime":2077.11,"body":"this. So I'd have that get"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2077.11,"endTime":2080.56,"body":"people thinking about where they"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2077.11,"endTime":2080.56,"body":"teach knowledge when they do it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2080.59,"endTime":2084.46,"body":"when it's when it's outside and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2080.59,"endTime":2084.46,"body":"it's outside the body and it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2084.46,"endTime":2088.48,"body":"social and material and when"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2084.46,"endTime":2088.48,"body":"they combine the two so yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2088.72,"endTime":2090.19,"body":"thank you very much thinking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2088.72,"endTime":2090.19,"body":"about"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2091.239,"endTime":2093.249,"body":"reconsidering some"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2091.239,"endTime":2093.249,"body":"of my schemes of work, come"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2093.249,"endTime":2095.589,"body":"back. We'll see how we'll get"},{"speaker":"Amanda Mason","startTime":2093.249,"endTime":2095.589,"body":"along. Okay."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2095.86,"endTime":2099.97,"body":"All right. Well,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2095.86,"endTime":2099.97,"body":"we'll do that. You will be"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2103.18,"endTime":2104.92,"body":"Thanks very much Amanda that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2103.18,"endTime":2104.92,"body":"been great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2105.009,"endTime":2106.809,"body":"no thank you as well as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2105.009,"endTime":2106.809,"body":"and thank you"}]}