{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.67,"body":"I was listening"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.67,"body":"last week to the thinking aloud"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2.67,"endTime":8.13,"body":"podcast from radio four. It's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":2.67,"endTime":8.13,"body":"all about sociological research."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":8.22,"endTime":12.12,"body":"And the one last because listen"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":8.22,"endTime":12.12,"body":"to us about the value of things."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":12.6,"endTime":15.24,"body":"Now is the word value. As you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":12.6,"endTime":15.24,"body":"can quite imagine, if you've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":15.24,"endTime":19.26,"body":"listened to previous episodes,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":15.24,"endTime":19.26,"body":"that caught my attention, I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":19.26,"endTime":22.68,"body":"really interested in about this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":19.26,"endTime":22.68,"body":"concept of value and how we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":22.68,"endTime":27.03,"body":"measure the value of something,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":22.68,"endTime":27.03,"body":"how we recognise how we see the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":27.03,"endTime":29.34,"body":"value, how we talk about values,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":27.03,"endTime":29.34,"body":"and so on."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":30.65,"endTime":35.33,"body":"But in this podcast, they were"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":30.65,"endTime":35.33,"body":"talking about clutter, I was I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":35.33,"endTime":37.7,"body":"was with my husband at the time,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":35.33,"endTime":37.7,"body":"we were listening to it. And I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":37.7,"endTime":40.1,"body":"don't know which one of us was"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":37.7,"endTime":40.1,"body":"glaring at the other one more"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":40.1,"endTime":43.73,"body":"about who owns the amount of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":40.1,"endTime":43.73,"body":"clutter there is in the house, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":43.73,"endTime":48.14,"body":"think I'm likely to lose on that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":43.73,"endTime":48.14,"body":"one. But we were listening to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":48.17,"endTime":51.05,"body":"talk about clutter and about why"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":48.17,"endTime":51.05,"body":"people value things. And they're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":51.05,"endTime":55.22,"body":"talking about House clearances,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":51.05,"endTime":55.22,"body":"and people who hoard and search."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":56.0,"endTime":58.85,"body":"And they were talking about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":56.0,"endTime":58.85,"body":"consumerism. And so all of these"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":58.85,"endTime":61.85,"body":"things were starting to resonate"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":58.85,"endTime":61.85,"body":"with me thinking about design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":61.85,"endTime":65.9,"body":"and technology and around"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":61.85,"endTime":65.9,"body":"sustainability of products. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":65.9,"endTime":69.35,"body":"then one of the contributors use"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":65.9,"endTime":69.35,"body":"this phrase, which I've not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":69.35,"endTime":75.35,"body":"heard before, about durable"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":69.35,"endTime":75.35,"body":"design, I can't get hold of the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":75.35,"endTime":80.21,"body":"transcript of the podcast, where"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":75.35,"endTime":80.21,"body":"she talks about who it wasn't in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":80.21,"endTime":83.45,"body":"the design field that was"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":80.21,"endTime":83.45,"body":"talking about durable design."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":83.96,"endTime":89.9,"body":"But it was about having products"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":83.96,"endTime":89.9,"body":"that had had more of a meaning."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":89.96,"endTime":92.75,"body":"And that lasted, whether that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":89.96,"endTime":92.75,"body":"because we replaced things or"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":92.75,"endTime":96.11,"body":"because we were more thoughtful"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":92.75,"endTime":96.11,"body":"in the way we purchased them. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":96.11,"endTime":100.25,"body":"I really liked this term durable"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":96.11,"endTime":100.25,"body":"design. And it got me thinking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":100.25,"endTime":104.9,"body":"about how we teach and how we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":100.25,"endTime":104.9,"body":"talk about values and design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":104.9,"endTime":108.65,"body":"technology. I talk about it in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":104.9,"endTime":108.65,"body":"my research in a particular way"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":108.65,"endTime":111.71,"body":"about how people value design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":108.65,"endTime":111.71,"body":"and technology, what do they see"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":111.71,"endTime":116.78,"body":"the purposes of the subject. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":111.71,"endTime":116.78,"body":"there's two other ways that I've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":116.78,"endTime":119.63,"body":"written about that we can talk"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":116.78,"endTime":119.63,"body":"about values and design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":119.63,"endTime":126.47,"body":"technology. While the one is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":119.63,"endTime":126.47,"body":"about values, in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":126.47,"endTime":131.33,"body":"technology, these are the values"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":126.47,"endTime":131.33,"body":"that can be taught to children,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":131.33,"endTime":134.99,"body":"or that we talk about in design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":131.33,"endTime":134.99,"body":"and technology that we see may"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":134.99,"endTime":140.06,"body":"be implied or implicit or overt"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":134.99,"endTime":140.06,"body":"in different products or"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":140.06,"endTime":145.37,"body":"processes. And then the other is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":140.06,"endTime":145.37,"body":"about how children design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":145.37,"endTime":151.16,"body":"technology might be taught"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":145.37,"endTime":151.16,"body":"values through design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":151.16,"endTime":156.26,"body":"technology. Now what I mean by"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":151.16,"endTime":156.26,"body":"that is the difference there is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":156.74,"endTime":159.77,"body":"that it could be seen as an"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":156.74,"endTime":159.77,"body":"indoctrination is that the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":159.77,"endTime":165.29,"body":"teacher is the holder of the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":159.77,"endTime":165.29,"body":"right values. And he's trying to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":165.56,"endTime":170.09,"body":"teach that to pupils in their in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":165.56,"endTime":170.09,"body":"their classes. So it's a three"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":170.09,"endTime":173.63,"body":"distinction, distinct ways of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":170.09,"endTime":173.63,"body":"looking at values, values of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":174.14,"endTime":180.53,"body":"values in and values through."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":174.14,"endTime":180.53,"body":"Now, this got me thinking to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":181.55,"endTime":185.06,"body":"David Layton's work where he"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":181.55,"endTime":185.06,"body":"talks about values and design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":185.06,"endTime":188.78,"body":"and technology. And Mike Martin"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":185.06,"endTime":188.78,"body":"has also talked about teaching"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":188.78,"endTime":192.68,"body":"values through design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":188.78,"endTime":192.68,"body":"technology. Now, these are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":192.8,"endTime":195.89,"body":"relatively old texts, they're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":192.8,"endTime":195.89,"body":"from the 1990s, I'll put a link"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":195.89,"endTime":198.68,"body":"in the show notes. And I've got"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":195.89,"endTime":198.68,"body":"them in front of me while I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":198.68,"endTime":201.08,"body":"talking because I see you will"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":198.68,"endTime":201.08,"body":"probably hear me flicking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":201.08,"endTime":206.06,"body":"backwards and forwards through"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":201.08,"endTime":206.06,"body":"the pages of the books as I as I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":206.06,"endTime":210.98,"body":"kind of remember that I'm saying"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":206.06,"endTime":210.98,"body":"the right thing. And the reason"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":210.98,"endTime":214.16,"body":"it sort of resonates with me is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":210.98,"endTime":214.16,"body":"that I've had a conversation"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":214.16,"endTime":220.1,"body":"recently with James Bleach and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":214.16,"endTime":220.1,"body":"Dave BausorDMT are about empathy"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":220.1,"endTime":223.76,"body":"and design and technology that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":220.1,"endTime":223.76,"body":"that's a value, or it's valuing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":223.76,"endTime":228.08,"body":"other people's positions. This"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":223.76,"endTime":228.08,"body":"thing about durable design"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":228.08,"endTime":232.07,"body":"that's about values, maybe"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":228.08,"endTime":232.07,"body":"relating more to sustainability."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":232.43,"endTime":235.79,"body":"I had a Twitter conversation"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":232.43,"endTime":235.79,"body":"about whether sustainability was"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":235.79,"endTime":238.88,"body":"in or out of a national"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":235.79,"endTime":238.88,"body":"curriculum. It's not in it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":238.88,"endTime":243.83,"body":"formally, but teachers continue"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":238.88,"endTime":243.83,"body":"to teach it. And the debate"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":243.83,"endTime":247.55,"body":"about why sustainability wasn't"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":243.83,"endTime":247.55,"body":"in the national curriculum in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":247.55,"endTime":250.49,"body":"2013 in England, was partly"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":247.55,"endTime":250.49,"body":"because it was seen as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":250.49,"endTime":251.27,"body":"political."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":252.59,"endTime":256.37,"body":"And if we look at the fact that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":252.59,"endTime":256.37,"body":"the national curriculum and the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":256.4,"endTime":259.49,"body":"drivers in the UK at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":256.4,"endTime":259.49,"body":"particularly in England, are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":259.49,"endTime":265.82,"body":"around knowledge, rich facts and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":259.49,"endTime":265.82,"body":"evidence, then things around"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":265.85,"endTime":271.07,"body":"values aren't valued any longer"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":265.85,"endTime":271.07,"body":"in the national curriculum. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":271.07,"endTime":274.76,"body":"this concept of the centrality"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":271.07,"endTime":274.76,"body":"of values as lightning talks"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":274.76,"endTime":278.36,"body":"about it gets kind of vanished."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":274.76,"endTime":278.36,"body":"You know, when I started"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":279.11,"endTime":283.19,"body":"teaching design and technology"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":279.11,"endTime":283.19,"body":"in 1993, and was involved in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":283.19,"endTime":286.94,"body":"teaching the first iteration of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":283.19,"endTime":286.94,"body":"a national curriculum, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":286.94,"endTime":290.39,"body":"the different kinds of values"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":286.94,"endTime":290.39,"body":"were there. They were listed in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":290.39,"endTime":293.51,"body":"the national curriculum, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":290.39,"endTime":293.51,"body":"those don't exist any longer."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":293.9,"endTime":296.24,"body":"And I think there's been a loss"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":293.9,"endTime":296.24,"body":"and I think these things still"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":296.24,"endTime":300.5,"body":"happen. In teachers. I'm very"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":296.24,"endTime":300.5,"body":"confident that D\u0026T Teachers"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":300.5,"endTime":305.3,"body":"still teach this but newer"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":300.5,"endTime":305.3,"body":"teachers coming through may not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":305.3,"endTime":308.57,"body":"be familiar with some of this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":305.3,"endTime":308.57,"body":"language. So I wanted to revisit"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":308.57,"endTime":311.39,"body":"it and share it particularly for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":308.57,"endTime":311.39,"body":"my own benefit to kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":311.39,"endTime":315.38,"body":"refresh my own mind about what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":311.39,"endTime":315.38,"body":"they were partly because it kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":315.38,"endTime":319.31,"body":"of got me excited. Again, it got"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":315.38,"endTime":319.31,"body":"me got me thinking about values."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":320.24,"endTime":322.82,"body":"And finally to share it with"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":320.24,"endTime":322.82,"body":"people who are listening who"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":322.82,"endTime":326.3,"body":"aren't familiar with this, this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":322.82,"endTime":326.3,"body":"language in this may be"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":326.3,"endTime":330.65,"body":"framework, we might want to call"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":326.3,"endTime":330.65,"body":"it about values in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":330.65,"endTime":335.69,"body":"technology. Layton says that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":330.65,"endTime":335.69,"body":"values and value judgments are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":335.69,"endTime":339.5,"body":"the engine of design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":335.69,"endTime":339.5,"body":"technology, judgement about what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":339.5,"endTime":342.59,"body":"is possible and worthwhile. He"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":339.5,"endTime":342.59,"body":"goes on to say initiate"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":342.59,"endTime":347.93,"body":"activity. So value judgments, he"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":342.59,"endTime":347.93,"body":"says reflecting pupils, people's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":347.93,"endTime":351.29,"body":"beliefs, concerns and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":347.93,"endTime":351.29,"body":"preferences are ubiquitous in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":351.29,"endTime":355.67,"body":"design and technology activity."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":351.29,"endTime":355.67,"body":"And that reminds me of what Dave"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":355.67,"endTime":358.76,"body":"and James are saying about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":355.67,"endTime":358.76,"body":"empathy. You know, reflecting"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":358.76,"endTime":362.33,"body":"people's beliefs, concerns and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":358.76,"endTime":362.33,"body":"preferences is really important."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":362.54,"endTime":368.27,"body":"Thinking about the clients, the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":362.54,"endTime":368.27,"body":"user is is is central to what we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":368.27,"endTime":373.1,"body":"do in design and technology. But"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":368.27,"endTime":373.1,"body":"there is more than that is"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":373.1,"endTime":379.52,"body":"thinking about the user or the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":373.1,"endTime":379.52,"body":"consumer. Layton gives these"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":379.52,"endTime":385.91,"body":"seven different types of values."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":379.52,"endTime":385.91,"body":"So the first is technical, which"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":385.91,"endTime":389.54,"body":"is about the right materials for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":385.91,"endTime":389.54,"body":"the job about having a neat"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":389.54,"endTime":396.08,"body":"solution about fitness for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":389.54,"endTime":396.08,"body":"purpose. Okay, we've kind of got"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":396.56,"endTime":399.32,"body":"that's kind of quite a central"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":396.56,"endTime":399.32,"body":"tenet of design and technology"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":399.32,"endTime":403.82,"body":"values, but it's not the only"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":399.32,"endTime":403.82,"body":"one. Okay, and then this one's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":403.82,"endTime":405.89,"body":"another one that we talk about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":403.82,"endTime":405.89,"body":"quite a lot in design tonight"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":405.89,"endTime":410.27,"body":"about economic about the Thrifty"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":405.89,"endTime":410.27,"body":"use of resources, sustainability"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":410.27,"endTime":414.23,"body":"that could be thinking into"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":410.27,"endTime":414.23,"body":"economic in terms of Thriftiness"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":414.5,"endTime":418.94,"body":"maximising the added value of a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":414.5,"endTime":418.94,"body":"product in terms of yes, we've"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":418.94,"endTime":422.0,"body":"got a product, but does it add"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":418.94,"endTime":422.0,"body":"value to the person who's using"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":422.0,"endTime":426.29,"body":"it does it? Can it be can value"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":422.0,"endTime":426.29,"body":"be added to it by having add"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":426.29,"endTime":431.06,"body":"ons, and so on, and adaptations"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":426.29,"endTime":431.06,"body":"and personalization. And then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":431.06,"endTime":435.23,"body":"there's the aesthetic is the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":431.06,"endTime":435.23,"body":"third kind of value. And again,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":435.23,"endTime":439.49,"body":"we talk about the the way"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":435.23,"endTime":439.49,"body":"something looks, but actually,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":439.49,"endTime":444.14,"body":"we mustn't forget that."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":439.49,"endTime":444.14,"body":"Aesthetics relates to more than"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":444.14,"endTime":447.86,"body":"the sense of sight, it relates"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":444.14,"endTime":447.86,"body":"to touch is it pleasing to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":447.86,"endTime":451.58,"body":"handle and we can think about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":447.86,"endTime":451.58,"body":"why something smells we can"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":451.79,"endTime":455.9,"body":"think about the way something"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":451.79,"endTime":455.9,"body":"tastes, all of these around a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":455.9,"endTime":459.89,"body":"statics where it touches our"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":455.9,"endTime":459.89,"body":"senses. And these are values"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":460.16,"endTime":464.45,"body":"that are within products, and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":460.16,"endTime":464.45,"body":"they are value judgments that we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":464.45,"endTime":467.99,"body":"make when we're designing a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":464.45,"endTime":467.99,"body":"product. The fourth is the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":467.99,"endTime":473.36,"body":"social, the social aspect of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":467.99,"endTime":473.36,"body":"making decisions and making"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":473.36,"endTime":476.66,"body":"judgments in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":473.36,"endTime":476.66,"body":"technology, thinking about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":476.69,"endTime":480.62,"body":"equality of different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":476.69,"endTime":480.62,"body":"ethnicities, different genders,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":480.83,"endTime":484.85,"body":"different sexualities, about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":480.83,"endTime":484.85,"body":"thinking about those who are"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":484.85,"endTime":488.99,"body":"disadvantaged or disabled, who"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":484.85,"endTime":488.99,"body":"may have difficulties in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":488.99,"endTime":494.57,"body":"accessing different products,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":488.99,"endTime":494.57,"body":"services, and systems. Then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":494.57,"endTime":499.1,"body":"fifthly there's the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":494.57,"endTime":499.1,"body":"environmental. So do we think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":499.1,"endTime":502.16,"body":"about Alan MacArthur's work"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":499.1,"endTime":502.16,"body":"about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":504.03,"endTime":507.868,"body":"Cradle to Cradle. So we have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":504.03,"endTime":507.868,"body":"something something has been as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":507.932,"endTime":511.323,"body":"Layton puts it ecologically"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":507.932,"endTime":511.323,"body":"benign? Do we think about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":511.387,"endTime":515.034,"body":"sustainable development that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":511.387,"endTime":515.034,"body":"kind of sets off bells in my"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":515.098,"endTime":518.873,"body":"ears about white Saviour, about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":515.098,"endTime":518.873,"body":"people sort of going in and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":518.937,"endTime":522.712,"body":"fixing solutions for different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":518.937,"endTime":522.712,"body":"countries that are, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":522.776,"endTime":526.935,"body":"less well developed as people in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":522.776,"endTime":526.935,"body":"the West might see it? Just kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":526.999,"endTime":530.709,"body":"of go off a slight tangent at"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":526.999,"endTime":530.709,"body":"that. Layton has this lovely"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":530.773,"endTime":534.42,"body":"quote in his chapter, where he"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":530.773,"endTime":534.42,"body":"says, you know about cross"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":534.484,"endTime":537.939,"body":"cultural perspectives around"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":534.484,"endTime":537.939,"body":"values. And he gives this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":538.003,"endTime":541.714,"body":"example about it said that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":538.003,"endTime":541.714,"body":"Ghandi as he was about to board"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":541.778,"endTime":545.681,"body":"his plane for India, at the end"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":541.778,"endTime":545.681,"body":"of his first visit to the UK,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":545.745,"endTime":549.328,"body":"was asked by an enthusiastic"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":545.745,"endTime":549.328,"body":"young reporter, what do you"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":549.392,"endTime":552.719,"body":"think about Western"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":549.392,"endTime":552.719,"body":"civilization? And after a moment"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":552.783,"endTime":556.814,"body":"of reflection, the reply came,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":552.783,"endTime":556.814,"body":"'Yes, I think it would be a good"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":556.878,"endTime":560.397,"body":"idea'. Now  that little comment"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":556.878,"endTime":560.397,"body":"can be taken in lots of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":560.46,"endTime":564.363,"body":"different ways. But it is worth"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":560.46,"endTime":564.363,"body":"kind of thinking this kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":564.427,"endTime":567.562,"body":"goes back and kind of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":564.427,"endTime":567.562,"body":"sidetracking it to previous"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":567.626,"endTime":571.657,"body":"episodes when I've talked about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":567.626,"endTime":571.657,"body":"how do we do race in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":571.721,"endTime":575.304,"body":"technology? And I think there's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":571.721,"endTime":575.304,"body":"we're very careful about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":575.368,"endTime":579.335,"body":"environmental about development"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":575.368,"endTime":579.335,"body":"and thinking about who's who's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":579.399,"endTime":583.11,"body":"developing who, but that's,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":579.399,"endTime":583.11,"body":"that's a value that we have to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":583.174,"endTime":586.821,"body":"think about and about value"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":583.174,"endTime":586.821,"body":"judgments. And then the sixth"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":586.885,"endTime":590.659,"body":"one is about moral and the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":586.885,"endTime":590.659,"body":"sanctity of life. And do we have"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":590.723,"endTime":594.626,"body":"a right to make things to do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":590.723,"endTime":594.626,"body":"things to have those things? And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":594.69,"endTime":598.401,"body":"then the final one, which I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":594.69,"endTime":598.401,"body":"think has kind of faded away I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":598.465,"endTime":602.432,"body":"think those six we, we may well"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":598.465,"endTime":602.432,"body":"say, Oh yes, we can see those."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":602.496,"endTime":606.335,"body":"But the seventh one is about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":602.496,"endTime":606.335,"body":"spirituality and religious. His"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":606.399,"endTime":609.79,"body":"definition of that is a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":606.399,"endTime":609.79,"body":"commitment to a conception of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":609.854,"endTime":613.82,"body":"humans and their relationship to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":609.854,"endTime":613.82,"body":"nature. Again, he had a sense"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":613.884,"endTime":617.915,"body":"kind of where does that differ"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":613.884,"endTime":617.915,"body":"from sustainability. But I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":617.979,"endTime":621.818,"body":"that's quite different in terms"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":617.979,"endTime":621.818,"body":"of a spiritual and intrinsic"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":621.882,"endTime":625.593,"body":"response to products, and to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":621.882,"endTime":625.593,"body":"where things come from in our"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":625.657,"endTime":629.24,"body":"environment than it is around"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":625.657,"endTime":629.24,"body":"things that are maybe more"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":629.304,"endTime":633.207,"body":"measurable unquantifiable. So I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":629.304,"endTime":633.207,"body":"think those seven values were"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":633.271,"endTime":637.237,"body":"they were talked about in the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":633.271,"endTime":637.237,"body":"national quick, I'm not sure all"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":637.301,"endTime":641.076,"body":"seven were, but probably six of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":637.301,"endTime":641.076,"body":"them, at least, were talked"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":641.14,"endTime":644.531,"body":"about in some of the early"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":641.14,"endTime":644.531,"body":"iterations of the national"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":644.595,"endTime":648.434,"body":"curriculum. And I'm bringing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":644.595,"endTime":648.434,"body":"those the foreign conversations"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":648.498,"endTime":652.145,"body":"in our teaching, when you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":648.498,"endTime":652.145,"body":"teaching with children, your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":652.209,"endTime":656.048,"body":"classrooms, I think is is really"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":652.209,"endTime":656.048,"body":"important. But how do we do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":656.112,"endTime":659.631,"body":"that? And the different ways we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":656.112,"endTime":659.631,"body":"do that, is, is quite a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":659.695,"endTime":663.469,"body":"challenge. Because as I said, at"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":659.695,"endTime":663.469,"body":"the beginning about are we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":663.533,"endTime":667.5,"body":"actually trying to teach values"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":663.533,"endTime":667.5,"body":"through. So Layton talks about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":667.564,"endTime":671.659,"body":"three different ways of teaching"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":667.564,"endTime":671.659,"body":"values. I'm going to come on to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":671.723,"endTime":675.498,"body":"this in another podcast, it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":671.723,"endTime":675.498,"body":"gives you three different ways,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":675.562,"endTime":679.017,"body":"values clarification. And then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":675.562,"endTime":679.017,"body":"secondly, the cognitive"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":679.081,"endTime":682.856,"body":"development approach. And then"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":679.081,"endTime":682.856,"body":"finally, indoctrination. And"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":682.92,"endTime":686.119,"body":"it's that last way,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":682.92,"endTime":686.119,"body":"indoctrination, which is why I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":686.183,"endTime":690.213,"body":"think I'm possibly giving more"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":686.183,"endTime":690.213,"body":"of a benefit of the doubt to the"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":690.277,"endTime":694.244,"body":"coalition government that were"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":690.277,"endTime":694.244,"body":"in power at the time, that they"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":694.308,"endTime":698.083,"body":"were looking for facts and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":694.308,"endTime":698.083,"body":"knowledge, rather than what they"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":698.147,"endTime":702.178,"body":"saw at that point was political,"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":698.147,"endTime":702.178,"body":"with a small p value judgments"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":702.242,"endTime":706.081,"body":"around sustainability. I'm kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":702.242,"endTime":706.081,"body":"of letting them off the hook"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":706.145,"endTime":709.919,"body":"there. I don't really fully"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":706.145,"endTime":709.919,"body":"agree with what I've just said."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":709.983,"endTime":713.31,"body":"But you know, it's an"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":709.983,"endTime":713.31,"body":"interesting way to think about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":713.374,"endTime":717.277,"body":"it. So I'm going to come back to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":713.374,"endTime":717.277,"body":"that one in a future podcast"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":717.341,"endTime":721.5,"body":"episode where we think about how"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":717.341,"endTime":721.5,"body":"do we teach values in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":721.564,"endTime":725.531,"body":"technology. We're going to end"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":721.564,"endTime":725.531,"body":"by just talking here about what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":725.595,"endTime":729.37,"body":"what Mike Martin says, where he"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":725.595,"endTime":729.37,"body":"talks about that design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":729.434,"endTime":733.016,"body":"technology is riddled with"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":729.434,"endTime":733.016,"body":"values. Teachers continuously"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":733.08,"endTime":737.175,"body":"deal with value issues and value"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":733.08,"endTime":737.175,"body":"judgments. Although they do not"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":737.239,"endTime":741.27,"body":"often recognise the fact that I"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":737.239,"endTime":741.27,"body":"don't see that Mike is making a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":741.334,"endTime":744.917,"body":"criticism there. I think he's"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":741.334,"endTime":744.917,"body":"been pragmatic here. As in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":744.981,"endTime":748.756,"body":"sometimes these things we kind"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":744.981,"endTime":748.756,"body":"of forget about. And I think"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":748.82,"endTime":752.723,"body":"that's why for me, it's been"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":748.82,"endTime":752.723,"body":"useful to go back to these seven"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":752.786,"endTime":756.497,"body":"from David Layton. And to read"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":752.786,"endTime":756.497,"body":"Mike's chapter again, to be"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":756.561,"endTime":760.592,"body":"reminded about these different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":756.561,"endTime":760.592,"body":"ways of thinking about values in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":760.656,"endTime":764.495,"body":"design and technology. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":760.656,"endTime":764.495,"body":"going to come back to this, as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":764.559,"endTime":768.398,"body":"I've said a couple of times."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":764.559,"endTime":768.398,"body":"Now, I'm going to talk a little"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":768.462,"endTime":772.557,"body":"bit more about how and where we"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":768.462,"endTime":772.557,"body":"think about values in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":772.621,"endTime":776.459,"body":"technology and how we can do"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":772.621,"endTime":776.459,"body":"that in different ways and what"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":776.523,"endTime":780.234,"body":"the pros and cons of those are."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":776.523,"endTime":780.234,"body":"Now, I hope you found that"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":780.298,"endTime":784.265,"body":"interesting, hearing about these"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":780.298,"endTime":784.265,"body":"different values. And some of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":784.329,"endTime":787.976,"body":"you may be using them mate. Some"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":784.329,"endTime":787.976,"body":"of you may be using them"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":788.04,"endTime":792.007,"body":"explicitly. But I think these"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":788.04,"endTime":792.007,"body":"three different ways of thinking"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":792.071,"endTime":795.718,"body":"about values and design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":792.071,"endTime":795.718,"body":"technology value of values in"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":795.782,"endTime":799.62,"body":"and values through are useful"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":795.782,"endTime":799.62,"body":"ways to help us talk about and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":799.684,"endTime":802.5,"body":"think about values in design and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":799.684,"endTime":802.5,"body":"technology."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":804.3,"endTime":806.7,"body":"Before I go, do you have a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":804.3,"endTime":806.7,"body":"lookout in the show notes, I'll"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":806.7,"endTime":808.95,"body":"put some links to some events."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":806.7,"endTime":808.95,"body":"I'm running over the next few"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":808.95,"endTime":812.4,"body":"weeks that people are welcome to"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":808.95,"endTime":812.4,"body":"come along to. I've also put"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":812.4,"endTime":815.73,"body":"links in to some different"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":812.4,"endTime":815.73,"body":"things to read in relationship"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":815.73,"endTime":819.63,"body":"to what I've talked about this"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":815.73,"endTime":819.63,"body":"next this week. And do come back"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":819.63,"endTime":822.66,"body":"and listen to the guest hosts"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":819.63,"endTime":822.66,"body":"that I've got coming on and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":822.66,"endTime":825.39,"body":"talking in the next few weeks"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":822.66,"endTime":825.39,"body":"about their different views"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":825.39,"endTime":828.84,"body":"about design and technology and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":825.39,"endTime":828.84,"body":"their different projects and"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":828.84,"endTime":832.11,"body":"thinking about the subject, as"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":828.84,"endTime":832.11,"body":"ever, thanks for listening."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":832.41,"endTime":836.19,"body":"Please do consider putting a"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":832.41,"endTime":836.19,"body":"review on Apple podcasts or"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":836.19,"endTime":838.92,"body":"wherever you listen to your"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":836.19,"endTime":838.92,"body":"podcasts. It's really great"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":838.92,"endTime":841.65,"body":"selfishly, to read about them"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":838.92,"endTime":841.65,"body":"when they're good, obviously."},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":842.28,"endTime":845.31,"body":"But I am going to start sharing"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":842.28,"endTime":845.31,"body":"some of those on here and giving"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":845.91,"endTime":849.45,"body":"sharing what people say about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":845.91,"endTime":849.45,"body":"the podcast because it does add"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":849.45,"endTime":853.08,"body":"value to what I do and it does"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":849.45,"endTime":853.08,"body":"make a difference. And it does"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":853.08,"endTime":855.99,"body":"help me shape and think about"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":853.08,"endTime":855.99,"body":"what I'm talking about each"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":855.99,"endTime":858.6,"body":"week, whether it's me or as it"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":855.99,"endTime":858.6,"body":"will be in the next couple of"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":858.6,"endTime":860.94,"body":"weeks other people. Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Alison Hardy","startTime":858.6,"endTime":860.94,"body":"listening"}]}