Episode 178 - Copyright Chaos

In this episode of "Get Your Shoot Together," Kira Derryberry and Mary Fisk-Taylor chat about the summer heat, copyright drama in the Dave Matthews Band fan world, and why respecting trademarks is a must. They also share cool sales tips for photographers, covering everything from building client relationships to smart pricing and marketing. With a mix of laughs and practical advice, this episode is perfect for anyone looking to protect their creative work and boost their business. Tune in and enjoy the ride!

This episode was written and performed by Mary Fisk-Taylor and Kira Derryberry, produced and edited by Kira Derryberry.

Transcript

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Kira Derryberry: This week's episode is brought to you by our friends at RetouchUp. RetouchUp: work smarter, not harder. Welcome to Get Your Shoot Together, the photographer's podcast where we discuss studio business life and keeping it all in line. I am Kira Derryberry.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: And I'm Mary Fisk-Taylor.

Kira Derryberry: Nearly forgot what I was doing right in the middle of it.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Imagine that, oh my gosh. It's not like we haven't done this. It's not like this is our, I don't know. We've done this a few times. We should know. We should absolutely know.

Kira Derryberry: I refuse to memorize the speech or the intro.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Well, you are succeeding. You're succeeding on that 100%.

Kira Derryberry: Yeah, so here we are, guys. Summer is summering, summer is summering.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I don't like it. It is hot, hot, it is hot.

Kira Derryberry: I'm going to wish a happy birthday to my brother, Ian Dodd.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: That's right, it is Ian Dodd's birthday.

Kira Derryberry: It is the young man's 42nd birthday, and, as you know, I am 14 months older than Ian, and so that just means my mortality is upon me.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Well, that may be a little bit of exaggeration.

Kira Derryberry: Perhaps, perhaps, yeah, a tiny bit, tiny, tiny bit, but well, yes, happy birthday, Ian. That's exciting.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I already wished him happy birthday this morning.

Kira Derryberry: Of course you did. Probably earlier than I even did.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Probably, because I'm that girl.

Kira Derryberry: Do you remember when I was doing that travel thing last year to all the different associations?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Yeah, that little thing you did the two years before that.

Kira Derryberry: I had this running gag where I had Ian, you know, he was my title slide, a big picture of his face, very close of his face.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Very close. I've seen it.

Kira Derryberry: And I used that as the title slide for like a year and a half. As many times as I could remember, I would get the audience in the room to scream, "Ian, you're huge in [insert town or state or country that I was in]."

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Right, right.

Kira Derryberry: I finally put together my little supercut today. I made a reel this morning of all those times, and in fact, I know I'm missing a bunch of times. I spent a lot of the morning just trying to gather up all the videos, but I got enough to make my "Ian, you're huge in [insert place]" reel this morning. So if you want to check that out, go to my Instagram account @Shakira and it's on there. It's pretty funny.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Oh fun. Well, that sounds like fun. I'll have to definitely check that out.

Kira Derryberry: Ian said thanks to all the willing and not willing participants, because in some of the videos, you can see that people are just like, "Really? Okay." But if you participated, if you're one of the many people, many, many people actually, that participated in that exercise, thank you. That was a very sweet birthday gift for my baby brother.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: There you go. Very, very cool and very cool of you to do it.

Kira Derryberry: I have a little something that I'm so close to popping off on social media. I'm not going to do it.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Pop off! Pop off!

Kira Derryberry: I want to pop off so bad. I'm in a lot of Dave Matthews groups on social media, right, and there's a lot of Dave Matthews beef.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: No, not with Dave Matthews. Hold on, this is going to be interesting.

Kira Derryberry: There are a lot of creators out there that create DMV swag, but I've always raised an eyebrow because they just openly use the DMV logo and the fire dancer logo, which is a little dancing figure. If you've ever seen it, you know what it is. But if you don't, look it up. It's obviously trademarked. So Bama Works, the company that owns these copyrights and does all their merch for the band, went through Etsy like a house on fire yesterday and cleaned house, shutting down hundreds of shops.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Well, rightly so.

Kira Derryberry: Rightly so. People are going bananas in these DMV groups, complaining about Bama Works shutting them down. They're just a small business. Yes, you are, but you've been literally making money off of somebody's trademark or copyright for a year or two or more. And I want to get in there and be like, "What don't y'all understand about a copyright?" You don't have the right to use it. One person said, "Hey guys, I've been making these purses for years, but I contacted them and got permission to use the logo. Just reach out to Bama Works. They're pretty cool about it."

Mary Fisk-Taylor: We shouldn't have to. Somebody said, "This isn't what Dave Matthews would want." And I'm like, Dave Matthews licensed it with the Bama Works people.

Kira Derryberry: That's literally what he wants. Just like his music, his songs, his signature. It just shocked me how ignorant people are about these things.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: So what you're telling me is that Dave Matthews fans are a little entitled?

Kira Derryberry: They're ignorant and entitled. I was so shocked how upset they were. I was like, what are we not understanding people?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Let's be honest, people don't always think about this. We're small business owners, and people copy our stuff probably all the time. We understand it because we don't want to get in trouble for doing it.

Kira Derryberry: We've literally both of us have fought on Capitol Hill to avoid people like that. It's just interesting. I don't understand. Granted, Dave Matthews is a big company and Bama Works, I get it. But the one person who said, "Hey guys, just reach out, they were really cool about it. I got their permission." People were indignant that they should even have to do that.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: That's how it works, guys. There's official licensing that you do with these things. You can have limited runs of it, and if you want to be legal about your business, then you reach out. I'm sure they were really cool about it, but they probably still make them pay a licensing fee or have an agreement or contract. They have to approve the designs because they don't want their logo on random things.

Kira Derryberry: Like a cigarette pack, for example. They don't want their logo on certain things, rightly so.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: And they're cool. Now, other companies like NCAA, I remember one time I had a cooler that I wanted to have a Tennessee T put on, and I submitted it. They rejected it. They said it looks too much like the Power T. We can do this T, we can do that T, but we can't use that T because it's copyrighted by Tennessee, rightly so. I thought, oh, I didn't even think about that. Absolutely.

Kira Derryberry: Walt Disney will shut you down. Harley Davidson is the number one because people try to bootleg their copyright all the time and create all kinds of stuff. Their logo is very recognizable.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: If it popped up, I would know what it was. I would see it.

Kira Derryberry: Yeah, I would know it if I saw it. In my mind, I see a blur of orange, red, white, and black. Anyway.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I used to do Harley Davidson merch and they shut me down. I'm like, exactly, it's their logo. They don't have to be cool about anything.

Kira Derryberry: They want partnerships with other brands. Maybe they want to have a Yeti partnership.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Which they probably do. That's the kind of licensing that brands co-brand together. Dave Matthews has that wine, the Dreaming Tree wine.

Kira Derryberry: Yeah, they have Dreaming Tree, they have Crush, they have the Fire Dancer.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Just like the Grateful Dead, you can't just put Dancing Bears or their skull on anything you want.

Kira Derryberry: No, I mean, Jimmy Buffett's Parrot Heads. Margaritaville stuff, the Rolling Stones.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: On Etsy, they're obviously bootlegging her album covers, her songs, her stuff. Taylor Swift hasn't really cracked down on it.

Kira Derryberry: Lucy has a t-shirt that my mother-in-law got her. It doesn't say Taylor Swift anywhere on it. It just says "in my love era." It's a nod to Taylor Swift but it's in the colors of the love album stuff.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Inspired by.

Kira Derryberry: It's like you could do Alabama. You said plaid is really popular in Alabama.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Yeah, the houndstooth. In Tennessee, it's the orange and white checkerboard. I could buy something orange and white checkerboard without the T on it, and it's Tennessee adjacent, but it's not infringing.

Kira Derryberry: Anyway, that's my. I just wanted to pop off and be like, "I'm going to enlighten these people," and then I thought, no, I'm not going to enlighten anybody.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: All you're going to do is your phone's just going to blow up with notifications of people fighting with you on Facebook.

Kira Derryberry: Exactly. You know me, Kira. If it's really big, I will make a stand, put myself out there. I did a lot during COVID. I did a lot during the unrest.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: But is this that? It's not. I don't want to hide behind my privilege and be like, I'll just keep my mouth shut. No, this is not a hill I need to die on.

Kira Derryberry: It's a good reminder that the general public doesn't have a good grip on what's legal and not when it comes to copyright and trademarking.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: But let me have, before we move into that, let me ask you a question. Just for my own entertainment. You said it was the Dancing Nancy. Is that what it is?

Kira Derryberry: The Fire Dancer, yeah.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: So what are the most inappropriate products that could be Dave Matthews brand products? I'll go first.

Kira Derryberry: Dave Matthews endorsed breast implants. Fire Dancer breast implants. Dreaming Tree.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I was thinking condoms. Hike up your skirt a little more condoms.

Kira Derryberry: You are now dead to me. Show your world to me condoms.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. Show your world to me tampons.

Kira Derryberry: No, ma'am. Super absorbent.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: All right, guys, I'm going to apologize ahead of time. I'm not.

Kira Derryberry: I don't apologize. You're in your not apologizing era. Women apologize too much, Mary.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: You are not wrong about that. I've gotten better. I've gotten a lot better.

Kira Derryberry: You have gotten better.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: All right, let's get a word in from our amazing sponsors. We'll be right back.

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Mary Fisk-Taylor: And we are back. How do we come back from that?

Kira Derryberry: Hopefully, I don't know. I don't know how we recover from that one. Sorry, guys. If anybody just ran off the road, my apologies. It's Kira's fault.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Hey, you know, this week I led in Virginia. Every month we do something called Pixel This, Virginia PPA does, and it's sponsored by our education committee, which of course I'm on and the director of. But this week we did sales. Everybody gets on Zoom and we just kind of chitter-chat and then we do a little bit of a kind of a free for all. Sometimes it's a structured program. We had a guy on recently who photographs bears. You can imagine I did not join that one because I'm not going to do that. But it was about sales, and I thought we have a lot of members. We have members that are in volume, we have members that are in portraits, we have members that do events like headshot events, we have weddings, we have fine art photographers, people that are out there doing fine art or personal work, and they're selling it and want to sell it and present it in galleries, etc. So it's like, what can I talk about with sales that would really go across the board? I came up with this, so I wanted to share it because I thought this matters whether you're talking about meeting with gallery owners that you want to sell your fine art in, or doing an arts in the park or something and selling that volume. Where you're meeting with schools or clubs or dance studios, events, where you're working with the people that are putting on events to bring you in. Obviously, portraits, whatever. But I came up with five things that I think, regardless of how you're selling, they matter.

Kira Derryberry: All right, so you ready for it.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: The first one is building strong client relationships, and that client for us it's the client that we're selling our wall portraits to, but for you, sometimes, it's the marketing director at the bank or the marketing agency or the video company or whatever. So those strong relationships really matter regardless of what type of sales you're in. Having effective and profitable pricing strategies. So, yes, whatever that is there should be, you should have that set consistent too, consistent exactly, and competitive at some point. I think now competitive in my world. I feel like I am competitive. I'm competitive. I'm up against other people that sell large wall art. I'm competitive in my pricing. I'm not competitive if you compare my pricing to, you know, school packages. No, that's not the same thing. So, you know, having that in mind, understand and also making sure that you have upsell and add-on options. Like for. And this is a really good example. There's a member in our group that he uses Gary Hughes' stuff, loves Gary, and I can't remember his partner's name, whatever that, the headshot thing that they do.

Kira Derryberry: Headshot tools, right? Yes, loves it, has been using it and he does a lot of big events where he goes in and does headshots. But he has an option to add on, essentially a headshot booth or extra. I don't know all these little fun things that he can add on that really make a difference in his sales. Obviously, if you're in volume, you have your add-ons in your packages and etc. If you are dealing in fine art, have your add-ons in your packages. Maybe your add-on is custom framing. But having those options third is a way to showcase your work, whether it's your website, social media, you're carrying an actual portfolio of your work to a gallery for people to see. You have a good booklet when you go in and meet with a school or a dance school that you want to get a contract with, you have a presentation piece that you can share. Having sales techniques and approaches, meaning you have a way to sell and whatever that is, whether it's online, in person, pre-buy, you know, like a lot of volume places will have a yearly sale, where halfway through you have a second chance sale, you have those vehicles and resources to do sales. And the last one is marketing and lead generation. Like, you have to have a way to market what you do one way or the other, whether it's word of mouth, whether it's you're sending out packets to businesses and marketing firms, or you're doing mailers or emails or drip campaigns or funnels. But you have to have a lead gen, you have to have a way to get new leads in the door.

Kira Derryberry: That's great. What I like about that is it gives you structure. Here are the five areas that I have to hit. These are deal breakers. If I don't hit, I can be really good at one, but if I'm not hitting all five, then I'm going to struggle or fall a little short in different areas, or maybe I'm not doing as well as I could be doing. Let's say, not struggle, but maybe I'm losing, leaving money on the table, maybe my business isn't living up to its full potential if I don't hit these five things.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Right. Yeah. If you just go with those five titles, those five things, then you know at least you can fill in the blanks, because all of those are a little different depending on what you do. For you, those five things, you would have a double set of books, essentially because you have a very different system for your corporate than you do your portrait. Sales have been interesting lately. Something else happened to me last week that scared me to death. I'm going to see if this has ever happened to you.

Kira Derryberry: Okay.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: We had somebody come back who we photographed her girls six years ago. She never ordered, and she just kind of dropped off the face of the earth. I'm one of those people that I will certainly try to reach out and get that sale, but after three or four times, I'm just going to leave them alone. I'm going to figure something has gone wrong and just let it be. And that doesn't happen very often, but when it does, she pops back up six years later and she's like, "I'm ready to order now." What she explains is she was going through a terrible and abusive relationship. She is now remarried and remarried well. Her husband and she live part-time in Pakistan. Now this is where it gets kind of... No, I'm sorry, Palestine, not Pakistan. Palestine. I have Palestine on the brain because of the news. Pakistan. And she came in and placed an order for three masterpiece oils, which, if anybody knows my pricing now, we're talking about a $37,000 invoice. This isn't the same invoice that I shared with our group together.

Kira Derryberry: I was going to say, is it this?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: It was two in one.

Kira Derryberry: You're killing it.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: But he only works with wire transfers. Every red flag went off in me. I went to the bank and I said I have a client, she is a client. She is someone we photographed. She's been around before. Honestly, she had been a pretty regular client, so I knew of her. Then she just dropped off the face of the earth and now I know why. But she's back. I said but she wants to do, he's in Pakistan, she wants to do this wire transfer. I mean, the woman's ring looked like a flashlight. The bank said, "It's totally fine, people do this all the time, and they can transfer money in. But even if you give them all your bank information, they can't take money out." But I don't believe that, because how many times have you gone on something? If you wanted to pay online through your bank and you have to put in your routing number in your bank account, couldn't they put that information in and have checks made?

Kira Derryberry: Yeah, that's what I don't. I've never... I don't have an answer for you on this, because I've always wondered, like okay, I am giving my routing number and my full checking account number, all of it, so that you can direct deposit into my account, but what stops you from having checks made to that account?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Exactly.

Kira Derryberry: That's literally all you need to have checks made to that account. You just need to know the bank. For example, this morning I got an invoice for my car insurance and they said I could pay online. I went in and it said if you use a credit card, they're going to charge a percentage, but if you want to put your banking information in, you can pay through your bank. And they wanted the routing number and the bank number. I immediately said no, I'm not. I don't have any of that information on me and I just went and did a bill pay out of my bank account. But it gave me the option to put that information in. What would stop them getting that information and then putting that in and paying their car insurance? I'm not saying that he would do that, but I don't know. It scared me.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: It scared me. This is a question for Janet Dodd, my mom, because she is a banker. Maybe I'll ask her and get back to us because she's a banker and she deals with this all the time.

Kira Derryberry: The bank acted like it was just so obvious, like it's just very obvious, it's very easy, you just give them all your information.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: That's everything I've been told not to do my whole life and I never liked doing it too. Like, remember the whole check fraud debacle that I've been going through and still going through, just trying to get things, I had to track down something that's been auto-drafting because of that. I had it set up to auto-draft out of this account and it's been almost impossible to try and track down how to change this. It's like something I signed up for Lucy. It's like her insurance, like her life insurance for when she was a baby. I signed up for the Gerber Grow-Up Plan or something. It's like $5 a month. Here we are, 15 years later, and I've been throwing $5 a month at that. I don't want it to cancel or to... Because I can cash it out at some point. I know when she's 18, I think, so I don't want to do that.

Kira Derryberry: But you have a hard time finding it.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I have a hard time finding it. I called the number, I couldn't get anyone on the phone. I had to google and find some other... It's real not good. But my point is, it's stuff like that. They auto-draft through the end of time, and then when it doesn't go through, they just cancel your account.

Kira Derryberry: And you've lost all the money and everything. So anyway, I've just been super sketched out about it. I haven't done anything, like I've just... I went out of town, so I'll get back to you.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I haven't done it yet. I don't want to lose the sale, but I don't want to lose all my money either.

Kira Derryberry: Think of it like a company paying you direct deposit. I have a lot of companies that do that.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: That's what this is. He's doing it through his corporation, or I'm sure... He's from Pakistan and this is not a reflection on him being a Pakistani. It's just a reflection on me thinking this is everything I've always thought I should never do.

Kira Derryberry: But that is a means to get money around through other countries. So what she said, it's a way for them to do it without the fees and the taxes and all those things.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: It exists for a reason, a legal reason. The bank was like, why are you even worried about this? They can't take all your money. I'm thinking, but can't they if they have all my information?

Kira Derryberry: I don't know. I just need to believe in it and just move forward.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I mean, I'm so confused though, because when I got that check stolen, they were like your account is compromised. They could do all kinds. They could make all these checks, they could duplicate the check, and I was like, okay so I have to close all of this account.

Kira Derryberry: Oh yeah. I mean, so I have to close this account, is what you're saying. Oh yeah, they covered it. I mean their insurance covered it and everything. But still, how is that different?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I don't know. That's what I don't know. I don't know why they couldn't order checks and just start cashing checks.

Kira Derryberry: I guess there's a trust and believe that they won't.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I guess there is. But I mean I feel like a fair exchange is he should give me all his banking information. I'm giving him all my banking information.

Kira Derryberry: But let's also talk about there's other things that make this a red flag, right? The fact now she told you she was in a terrible relationship, she dropped off the face of the planet for six years and now she's getting her life back. She's remarried, whatever. That is a great story and I hope that that is true. But wouldn't that be a believable story for you if it did not be true too?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I wish I trusted people more. I really do.

Kira Derryberry: Me too. It makes me feel bad. I really do feel bad. I don't want to feel this way. I hate that. I hate that because you really want to believe people and some people are real. It's like professional con artists. Somebody walked into a bank with my check or a check cashing place with my check and just plain faced was like, "Kira Derryberry wrote me this check for $10,000. I would like to cash it, please, right now." And just straight-faced did that. They did it a hundred times over to all kinds of people.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: My brother-in-law, that check washing thing is huge. That's why I don't use checks anymore. I'm terrified to use a check.

Kira Derryberry: Who is falling for this stuff?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: A lot of people are falling for this. Lonely people, older people. These are predators that are going after children. The scam industry is so terrifying to me, especially having had that small experience compared to what other people do. Kevin has three older siblings that are much older, and they live in other states. When Kevin's dad was alive, someone called the house saying that they were his oldest brother and saying that, but kind of garbled, kind of like muffly. He was like, "What's wrong with you, son?" He was like, "Dad, I've been in a horrible car accident. I am in a lot of trouble because I was drinking and driving. I just need your help. I need you to send me some money so I can get..." And he's like, "You don't sound like yourself." "Because I've been in this car accident, my face is all wrapped up in this bandage." They haven't talked. They were so worried that their son had been in a car accident and he was near death and he could barely speak on the phone and that he needed this money wired to them. They were at the bank trying to get this money order to send, and at the last second, they were like, let me call him. They called him and he picked up. "Hey, are you okay? You just called about an hour ago and said all this." He goes, "No, I have no idea what you're talking about." They just called him and verified, but moments before they were getting the money.

Kira Derryberry: Oh man.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: You know, and it ended up not falling forward or whatever. But I mean, there's no way for them to find out who did that or who was doing it.

Kira Derryberry: Kevin's mom said somebody called another time after he was passed away and claimed to be one of the grandkids, claimed to be like one of the granddaughters and said that they were in trouble. They didn't want to call their mom because they were afraid they were going to get in trouble with mom. They needed money.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I do not understand. I don't understand scammers. That's just not how our brains work. It makes us... I just have been ignoring this sale. I went out of town and now she's out of town and we're supposed to connect next week and I have to decide what I'm going to do. I guess I'm going to do it. I don't know. I don't know, guys.

Kira Derryberry: I think you're doing the right thing. I think you're going to your bank. Is there a way for you to verify the legitimacy of it? Is this something that's done often when you've got clients, when people have got... I've just never had it done and I think you've done the right thing. If your bank is assuring you that this can't happen, your bank is also insured for this type of fraud. But you did go to the bank and say, "Is this okay?" And they said it is.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: They did.

Kira Derryberry: So I guess you could move forward with that knowledge and assurance that the bank is going to be responsible for it if something doesn't go through.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Yeah, I guess.

Kira Derryberry: Not that it doesn't go through, but if anybody steals out of your account. They're insured for that kind of bank fraud. I mean, I just hope that's not... But I guess what I'm saying is I think you have to move forward with it because you've done everything you can to verify.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I have. I don't know what else I can do. And it does. I mean, like you said, that's how a lot of companies pay you, I'm sure.

Kira Derryberry: What I don't like about it is that I have to go double check the bank account and the bookkeeping, because I import all those transactions and I have to go and see if they paid their bill. It doesn't automatically mark it as paid in my... So I have to go and reconcile, it's just an extra step for me.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I would rather deposit the check myself and just have the knowledge that I deposited the check.

Kira Derryberry: People send me checks and they have routing numbers and account numbers on them too.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Why am I not stealing money by making checks from the bank?

Kira Derryberry: It can go both ways. There is some level of...

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Every check you get has that information on it.

Kira Derryberry: It's on every check. That's why they told me I had to cancel my account. I'm still not sure I needed to cancel my account, but that's what they said and so that's what I did.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Well, dang. I didn't even think about that, Kira.

Kira Derryberry: That's absolutely true.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: After all that, we're like, but wait a minute.

Kira Derryberry: But wait a minute.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I don't just state the obvious here, that's pretty obvious.

Kira Derryberry: You've had my bank account information before.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: You could be robbing me blind.

Kira Derryberry: You don't know.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: You don't know.

Kira Derryberry: You could be robbing me blind.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: The good news is I don't keep a lot of money in checking. Just, you know we don't keep a lot of money in there because of profit first. I'm moving money all the time. But anyway, it just for some reason freaked me out.

Kira Derryberry: Well, I'll do share it if we share a check. And the other one is you never know that client that we gave up on six years ago, just never know when they might pop back up. And granted, that's not the norm by any stretch, but that's happened to me several times.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Well, we're by ourselves. We're the business owner. We don't have the backing of a big company that we work for, to kind of... If a mistake like that gets made, the company is responsible for dealing with it, not you the employee, generally. But you are the company, you are the employee, you are everything, so if it happens, it's all on you and you have to deal with it and no one else is going to. That's what makes you have to be extra, extra, extra cautious about how things are handled and how your payments are taken, because we don't have anything to fall back on. We don't have anyone else to share the responsibility with.

Kira Derryberry: I think that's part of the thing, is the thought of having to go and close the account and open a new account.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: That sounds terrible, but that's almost as hard as losing the money part. Oh my gosh.

Kira Derryberry: That sucks so bad. You have no idea. I mean you do, but you don't really think about how much. When you have a bank account for your business the entire time you've been in business, how much is attached to it. Everything is attached to it. Even like personally, Daryl and I's bank account we've had since we got married. We actually got it when we were engaged, so I've had the same checking account since 1992. The thought... It's crazy to me because the thought of that. And same thing with the business. We've had this same checking account ever since we opened.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I'm never going to memorize this new business account number. The numbers don't even make sense in my head, like the sequence of numbers. You know, sometimes certain numbers they just ring together, they just go together. This one it's just gibberish, gibberish amount of numbers. They don't sing to me. They don't say anything. They don't say it's just a sloppy amount of like a combination of numbers, whereas before it was very like did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did, did did, did, did, did, did, did.

Kira Derryberry: We're going to keep you updated. Hopefully there'll be nothing to update on. Next time we're on, tell us if that cleared. I want to know.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I'll let you know. I need to follow up.

Kira Derryberry: Is this the beginning of the long and torrid tale of you having to track down this money.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: It's going to go one way or the other, right? We don't know. We don't know what's going to happen. I'll keep you guys posted on that, but we'll see.

Kira Derryberry: So that and my sales thing this week, that's been my exciting... And then I saw two Dave Matthews concerts over the weekend, so that was...

Mary Fisk-Taylor: With a bunch of ungrateful jerks.

Kira Derryberry: With a bunch of people who don't understand copyright, that is for sure.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Oh wow, I'm so sorry for them.

Kira Derryberry: But all that's going to do is make higher quality licensed things that actually support the people who made it and designed it.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Or you know, you know, because there are a lot of them out there that do have the... I've never bought from any that I didn't know that had the... authorized distributors of the logo. I don't know. I just was shocked by... I mean, 300 people commented in a couple hours, just how outraged they are. And I'm like, what don't... I don't know. This just seems so simple to me.

Kira Derryberry: With Taylor Swift, there's the bracelets. I'm sure there is some sort of thing that is a tribute to the thing you love that isn't stealing.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: I make the bracelets. I make Dave bracelets and use Break Free or different song titles or Gorge. You can sell that.

Kira Derryberry: There's other things that you can make that is a tribute to that person or that band or that moment.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Just be better, guys. I mean, just what don't you understand about intellectual property? How would you feel if someone took from you? It's taking from someone else. I don't think people think about it that way. I think, in the wild, wild world we live in now, where everything is online and digital, they don't think about the fact that it's not theirs to use or make profit from, which is what they're trying to do.

Kira Derryberry: I'm wearing a Nikon shirt right now that I got from Nikon. But what if I just decided one day to make really pretty beach straw hats that say Nikon across the front with the Nikon font. Not that I would, but what if I did and just started selling that?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: You can't.

Kira Derryberry: I came up with the idea, so isn't it okay?

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Or PPA. You can't put the PPA logo on things. When you get the PPA logo or the master's logo, there's a usage packet with it for a reason. You can use it for these things. Anyway, we all get it with our own work. But I've seen many times photographers absolutely abuse this, but they're the same ones that would cry if their pictures were copied, but they don't respect the other. It goes both ways. Lesson learned. Also, I'll keep you updated on my wire transfer and see how that goes.

Kira Derryberry: We'll keep you posted. Unfortunately, we're getting to almost the middle of summer, not quite there. So, I know you guys are traveling next month.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: We're traveling next month. We're doing a little family vacay with my parents and my brother and his crew to St. Augustine to visit the Fountain of Youth with John Dodd. It's his 80th year, and we thought that would be fun. We're doing that, but I'm also going to Orlando for the Florida Professional Photographers Convention, which is called Focus. I wanted to tell you guys two things about that. One, let me tell you who the speakers are, in case you want to come and go to Disneyland and make a stop off at our convention. We have an awesome pre-con from our friend, Sandra Pierce. Our friend of the show, Carl Kaler, is going to be teaching a program on deliberate and justified creations. Then we've got John Gress, our good buddy. John Gress, who is a friend of the show, listens all the time. He's going to be coming down and making dramatic portraits with multiple lights. Our other friend, Jeff Carpenter, is coming down from Tennessee to teach us some headshot stuff, so I'm excited to learn from him. Our friend, president Mark Campbell, is going to be there. Yulia Penchenko is doing a boudoir workshop and she's amazing. It's just a really stacked conference and I'll be there hanging out. So if you want to have a Kira sighting and see some awesome programming... Oh, and they have a deal right now. If you know a Florida Professional Photography member, and you've never gone to the conference but you would like to go and you're not a member, that member can bring you for free. You don't have to pay to go. This is something very new this year. So if you know somebody who is a member of FPP and you've never had a chance to go, you get to go. And then the last thing I'll say in FPP news, we also have Florida School, which is like a very, very, very small version of Texas School, if you've been to Texas School. We have some awesome instructors this year and that is going to be Greg Daniel and William Branson. Jeff Carpenter is coming to teach and also Christy Elias is coming to teach out of California, and Michelle Salentano. This is four days of all-day classes with these particular instructors that you select for the week. It's really fun and I'm thinking about going to that too.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Oh man, yeah, cool. Well, that's awesome. I have two things. If you're near Virginia, specifically the Harrisonburg area, which is beautiful, the mountains of Virginia, in Harrisonburg we're going to be August 9th, 10th, and 11th for the Virginia summer event. We have Michael Patch who's going to... We have some local celebrities doing stuff like real estate drone photography. On Saturday night, the 10th of August, in Virginia is one of the best nights of the year to see the Milky Way and we have an expert photographer doing a whole adventure out that night to photograph the Milky Way and astrophotography. We also have Scott Detweiler doing a whole extra day on AI and compositing and how he works with that. If you're familiar with Scott's work, it's amazing and he will be there along with our great friend Jessica Robertson doing a program on seniors. If you're in the PNW area, Jamie Hayes and I will be doing a full day program for Oregon PPA September 3rd. It will be in the Portland area. It's going to be advanced posing and lighting and then an AI digital marketing class with me.

Kira Derryberry: That's fantastic. I forgot to tell my dates. You were so good about your dates and then I forgot to tell the dates. Focus convention is going to be July 11th through July 14th, Lake Buena Vista, Florida, so that's the Orlando area very near Disney. In the same location, but I think in September, is the Florida School of Photography and that is happening September 21st through 24th of this year. You can check out fpponline.com for more information on attending those things.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Awesome, awesome. Lots of fun stuff coming up and of course we will be here podcasting and sharing as much as we possibly can. I know Kira's got family stuff, I've got stuff coming up. So summer can be a little spotty, but we will get to you guys as much as possible and we appreciate you guys listening.

Kira Derryberry: You guys are always so great to let us know that you're still here, you're still listening.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Thank you.

Kira Derryberry: Okay, guys, we'll wrap this one up. You can follow us on Instagram at Get Your Shoot Together. You can follow us on Facebook at Get Your Shoot Together. You can email us at girl at getyourshoettogether.com and subscribe to us wherever podcasts are played. We will see you guys next time.

Mary Fisk-Taylor: Thanks y'all.