Episode 186 - Swiftie Branding Magic

Join Kira and Mary as they dive into the branding powerhouse that is Taylor Swift! In this episode, Kira shares the unforgettable experience of taking her daughter to a Taylor Swift concert and how Swift’s branding brilliance transforms every show into a fan-inclusive spectacle. Mary, a branding enthusiast, breaks down what makes Swift's branding strategy so unique—and how her ability to connect with her audience has redefined brand loyalty in the music world. Whether you're a Swifty or not, there are lessons here on building a relatable brand and cultivating lifelong client loyalty. Tune in to learn how you can use some of these ideas to foster a deeper connection with your clients!

This episode was written and performed by Mary Fisk-Taylor and Kira Derryberry, produced and edited by Kira Derryberry.

Transcript

GYST - 186

Kira: [00:00:00] This week's episode is brought to you by our friends at RetouchUp. RetouchUp. Work smarter, not harder.

Kira: Welcome to Get Your Shoot Together, the photographer's podcast where we discuss studio, business life and keeping it all in line. I'm Kira Derryberry. And I'm Mary Fisk-Taylor. I'm laughing at myself that I can see with my eye patches. 

Mary: I know I have tried. OK, you guys know what we're talking about, right?

Mary: Like those little eye patches. The little gooey eye patches. Yeah. And if you don't just look it up, gooey eye patches, I'm pretty sure that's what they're called, but I don't seem to be able to keep them on my face. Like I see people like, you know, TikToks where they like put their whole makeup on with them on or they get on flights and wear them.

Mary: I mean, yeah, some of them are very gooey. I can't keep, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. What kind do you use? Cause I'm not doing something right. 

Kira: This one, this one is dermatology. They took out all the [00:01:00] vowels. So it's dermatology. So it's D R M T L G Y. 

Mary: Okay. 

Kira: Brightening eye masks. Medical grade skincare.

Kira: Okay. 

Mary: Medical grade. 

Kira: They don't need vowels in, Medicine. They're actually 

Mary: frowned upon. 

Kira: We don't need no stinking vows. Who needs vows? I actually don't care what they are. I just like the way they feel. My eyes just feel tired. I like them to feel. Whether or not they really do anything, I don't know. I think the trick to keeping them on your face is you just have to have very dry skin.

Mary: Well, that's hilarious. I don't think that's true, but that's funny. Um, so yeah. Okay, cool. Well, cause I have a international flight coming up and I always see, you know, when I go down the tick tock rabbit hole or, you know, watching a reel or something, you know, these people, these they'll get on their plane, they'll put their masks on and they'll sit in their seats.

Mary: Well, a, I think I would [00:02:00] scare, scare small children and, and adults quite frankly, and B. I don't know how I'd keep it on my face. I mean, I guess I sleep rougher than normal people. I don't know. 

Kira: And just the thought of you taking them off and then handing them to the little trash baggie with her little plastic gloves on.

Kira: When they like come around to pick up my like, you know, my wine glass. I could, I couldn't imagine. The only way I think I would wear them on a flight is if I was in the window and Kevin was next to me or you were next to me. Yeah, 

Mary: yeah. Like 

Kira: where the person next to me was a known enemy. Or Jeff 

Mary: Dachowski.

Kira: Or Jeff, yeah, yeah, Jeffers. 

Mary: He would probably put some on himself. Oh, he'd be like, can I try to 100 percent try to put them on and then we would laugh so hard we would never get any sleep. Because we 

Kira: couldn't, we wouldn't be able to stop taking selfies. 

Mary: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Uh, um, Yeah. So, um, you.

Mary: My friend, guys, major development since our [00:03:00] last podcast, and we apologize, things, life has been crazy. So yeah, podcasting, we're getting to it when we can, but major development since our last podcast, major, major development. 

Kira: So we remember the story about how I almost spent a gazillion dollars in the middle of the night trying to get tickets to Taylor Swift.

Mary: Remember when we said 

Kira: that's ridiculous? That's ridiculous. It's just insane. Until somebody, you talk to somebody and they're like, well, we're going. on Sunday and you know, you should just do it. And I just did it. So I was talking to our friend, Michaela, friend of the show, Michaela Harris. Love you, Maciej.

Kira: And, um, Maciej. And so I was talking to her on text on a Friday night. And she says that, you know, she's getting ready to go to the Taylor Swift concert. And I was like, God, I've been trying so hard to like, it would be so great if if I had gotten those tickets. And I told her about how I almost bought those tickets and everything for the Miami show.

Kira: And she goes, but we're going to the one on Sunday. And I was like, Oh, yeah, she goes, you should just do it now. It's just do it. She goes, you should just do it. Just don't worry about [00:04:00] it. Just do it. I love the, you know, the, the stuff she goes, I'm not the person to come to. You know, 

Mary: I'm, I'm, I'm just a much older version of Michaela.

Kira: So she's like, she's like, just, you know, um, The StubHub fees have gone down because it's the weekend of the show and so she's like I'm hearing that there's a lot of good stuff available for the fees are less and I was like I'll just check it out and I'm looking and I was like sure enough they they were less now they're still insane insane 

Mary: yeah 

Kira: but they were less and I was like they still cost more than 

Mary: my first car you 

Kira: Right.

Kira: I mean, but she said, she goes, but all right. So where are your tickets? You know, she showed me where her tickets were and I was like, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Okay, I'm coming. And then, so we totally crashed her. Um, and her daughter, Leah and her friend, Lisa, um, died. And Lisa's daughter, um, we crashed their, uh, their girl's weekend, which I, listen, we had a great time.

Kira: They were awesome to let us tag along and we didn't sit, we weren't sitting directly with each other, but in the same section. So [00:05:00] we were all like together and, um, we had a wonderful time. And Lucy, all my videos, I sent them to you. All my videos are just videos of Lucy singing. You know, it's Lucy singing and 

Mary: dancing.

Mary: Yeah, this is her 16th birthday present. Yeah. I mean, you will never, I mean, I, you know, first of all, y'all know how I feel about live music, but you'll never look back and regret it. Like, this is just not something you'll ever regret. I mean, it may hurt a little, it stings a little, right? Like, it stings a little, um, right now, but you'll never regret it.

Kira: It was, it was, no, I mean, it was such a fun experience for the both of us. She made it through the whole show, you know, and I was very concerned. It's a long show and I was very concerned. They say you get your money's worth. Oh, you do. And her eyes never got off, off of Taylor or off the screen. I mean, she was always singing and dancing and doing her and showing me her bracelet, you know, that lights up.

Kira: The bracelet thing was such a cool thing because the whole audience, like even, okay. So I don't 

Mary: know if you've seen, I don't know what the bracelet thing is, [00:06:00] I'm not that cool. 

Kira: Okay, so they have these little LED activated bracelets, right? So they're little lights that you wear on your wrist, and the audience becomes part of the entire scene.

Kira: So for certain songs, they light up with different colors, so everyone's arms are in the air, and like they, it is amazing. So not only do they like light up in different theme colors or whatever, but like they set off some lights. Some people's do different. They're like playing different parts in the lights, you know, so like I would stop it all of the lights on my side were teal.

Kira: Shut up. Mine was blinking white and like every few people had white, you know, and so it was like you're part of the whole atmosphere. with these bracelets on, which was just like so neat. I don't know, like just such a part of like, of like an immersive way to be a part of it. You know what we used to do, Kira?

Kira: You 

Mary: know what we used to do? Lighters. Bic lighter, yeah. 

Kira: Bic lighters. Oh yeah, we'd burn our thumbs. My finger, my fingernail would get burned. Oh, it'd get too hot 

Mary: and you had to, oh. You're not that old though. Like, but like before cell phones, [00:07:00] y'all, Bic lighters, man. And it would get so hot and you would hang in there as long as you can.

Mary: And God forbid if you put on a press on nail that day. Oh, yeah, melted right off. She was gone. 

Kira: She was gone. She's gone. Like, aw, I ruined my manicure. That's what my shirt says today. Bye, Lee. 

Mary: Actually, my shirt says that today. Girl, bye. So, 

Kira: that would have been my Lee Cresson nail at a concert. You didn't have to do your phone.

Kira: You didn't have to, you know, and, and there was never a, I thought for sure they weren't going to let us, like, film it. You know how you go, please, no, no photographs or filming. Or some 

Mary: artists will call you right on out about it. I have a story. Oh, 

Kira: no. Everyone has their phone out and they're filming. taking pictures, taking, you know, selfies and just, um, so that was great for Lucy because she, I tried to warn her that that might be the case, you know, but that'll be okay.

Kira: Nope, baby had, until her phone died, baby was videoing the whole thing, but watching Taylor Swift, but videoing the whole thing. So she has all the memories that she can relive. She, um, she had the bestest, bestest time. 

Mary: I, gosh dang, and you got to hang out with a friend. It was so worth it. [00:08:00] Yeah, and you got to spend two days down in southern Florida.

Mary: Um, yeah. Yeah, my friend Monica, who lives in Alamorada, um, Girl popped up at Taylor Swift concert the night before, she went the night before, and she said the same thing, that the fees dropped and there were some pretty good deals. Now, I'm doing air quotes because we're using that word very loosely. What 

Kira: are good deals?

Kira: Oh, oh, let me tell you. Yeah. The girl sitting next to me and her friend, she's, you know, they were all super nice. And it was also like, honestly, very few men. No, no offense to men. But it was also, you just felt like you were in this room of powerful women. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it was great. So anyway, I've got these two wonderful, all the people sitting around us were wonderful.

Kira: Two nice girls sitting next to us, younger girls, probably early 30s, late 20s. And, um, They're, you know, immediately they want to share bracelets. We all do the bracelet trading, which was so fun. And, um, and she, I said, yeah, man, I'm just so glad that I did this. Like, I know that this was expensive. She goes, yeah, this was the most expensive one.

Kira: I did it. She goes, I actually came last night too. And I was like, wow, [00:09:00] girl, like you go for you, you know? And she goes, yeah, but this tonight was actually the most expensive. I think we paid like 250 and I went like 2, 500 and she goes, no, like 250. This was the most expensive one that we went, 2. 50 a ticket, and I was like, how did we, she, evidently, I mean, you can, I'm not in this deep with the Taylor Swift.

Kira: But there are people who get opened up, like fan club and like credit card, certain credit card holders, certain like Capital One ones. And um, she got it. They have, she told me they have a system of like five, her and five friends, like take turns, like pinging this. I have no idea how it works, but she said basically they all got tickets on the first run, like face value, you know?

Kira: And I was like, how? Okay. She said 85 was what she paid the night before. Well, 

Mary: there's a system out there that A whole, a whole subculture we know nothing about, obviously. Maybe 

Kira: save some of those tickets for my little girl. Yeah, hey. [00:10:00] Do you need to go two nights in a row, or could you save I know. Hey, why don't you Could you save one for Lucy?

Kira: Why are you so, so, 

Mary: so, so selfish? 

Kira: But you know, Those girls, they may not, I don't know, I don't want to make assumptions, but let's say they couldn't have afforded what I afforded, which, let me also be clear, was not an easy purchase. I mean, it was a, it was a vacation. 

Mary: Yeah, it was a nice little vacation. 

Kira: Yeah, but worth every penny.

Mary: Yeah, 

Kira: worth every penny. And, um, Uh, the ride back though, less exciting. Um, the, the traffic just getting out of the concert, horrible, getting into the concert, easy getting out. But, um, Michaela's husband, Dave drove us, graciously drove us. And, um, so we didn't have to get Ubers. I can't imagine. I could not imagine trying to leave that concert.

Kira: In an Uber. Okay, how would we possibly get an Uber? 

Mary: I've done Taylor Swift, but I've done other pretty big shows, like U2 at, you know, FedEx Field. Okay, so that's the same, about the same size as where [00:11:00] Taylor was in Miami. Um, or even leaving like a bowl game, like a football game or anything. And Uber there, 18.

Mary: Seven minutes, seven minute wait. Uber out. Three and a half hour wait, 422. 

Kira: So thank you David Harris. I mean 

Mary: really and truly you're not wrong because it's just terrible. It's it's just and you just know I mean I've gotten to the point now where I just hire a car service because at least I know they're going to be there And it costs a little bit more but I know it's going to be I just yeah There were 

Kira: these these men standing as you're exiting right and you're and you're you're you're pushed out and you're just shoving them out 

Mary: Yeah 

Kira: You're just, yeah, you're shoved out in this different direction.

Kira: You're on the entire other side of the stadium. You thought you'd be like able to go back where you dropped off, but you can't because now that's like three miles away. And so we're on this other side of the stadium. We're, we're shoved out in these little tiny, narrow, you know, lines. And then, um, there's just [00:12:00] guys holding phones up that just say Uber.

Kira: Uber. That's all it says is Uber, not like looking for a person or whatever, just Uber. No, they're not 

Mary: Uber drivers, but they're off clock and they're making a lot of money. You know what happened to me at a Dave concert this past summer? I'm still angry about it now that we mention it. Um, I called my Uber, I did my due diligence, I even left before the last song, which I never do at a Dave concert.

Mary: But I was really like, you know, this is the third night in a row of Dave, I can miss a song. I get my uber, I'm standing in the uber lot, waiting, a bunch of drunk men came out, right, I see them coming and they're being super obnoxious, super not your typical day fan. I see my uber driver, we're making eye contact, the guy, the one big drunk guy next goes, I'll give you 300 bucks if you just ditch your ride.

Mary: I saw my uber driver. cancel me as I'm looking in his face and all of those guys got in the car laughing, yucking it up or whatever. The rage that I felt at that [00:13:00] moment. That was 

Kira: happening a 

Mary: lot. If I'd had a golf club, just if by chance, I'd taken a golf club to the Dave Matthews concert. A, I don't play golf.

Mary: B, I don't think they would let you. I would have probably thought about smashing this window. Like that's what I visioned. The rage, because I'm tired. I'm 56 years old, like, and these three punky kids, like, I was so angry. And I looked at the guy and I'm like, I saw what you did. And I'm, you know, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna figure out how to report you.

Mary: I never could figure out how to report it. So anyway, 

Kira: well, yeah. He's got bad juju. 

Mary: Yes, he does. Yes, he does. Hey, but you know what? Not bad juju at all. Let's talk about, let's hear from our quick, quick thing from our sponsor. Super quick. Amazing. Retouch up and be right back. So we can talk about, a little more about Taylor, but how branding is such a big part of that whole experience.

Kira: I'll be right back. Hey, you, is it 2 a. m. and you're still up retouching that one year old's [00:14:00] cake smash session because there's just not enough hours to get it all done? Stop what you're doing right now and upload that session to retouchup. Never tried retouchup? No problem. Sign up for a free account at retouchup.

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Kira: That's enough to retouch, like, four headshots. Or get five extractions. Or remove all the leaves out of the pool and the cars out of the parking lot on that real estate shot you just took. Get your life back with RetouchUp at RetouchUp. com. And we are back. Alright, so, it's funny because, you know, before We podcast, we always kind of like chat for a minute about what we're going to talk about.

Kira: And lately I've [00:15:00] just been like, help. And you were like, we should talk about, we should talk about the Taylor Swift stuff. 

Mary: Well, no, this is Mary Fizz Taylor. Cause it's, you know, it's almost, it's almost November and I'm already freaking out. About what everybody's getting for Christmas and birthdays for fall, you know, we're in we're all in we're in deep and that's me as a human being and I know that it's just who I am as a person and just the way she's good 

Kira: about I have.

Kira: Meanwhile, I've not bought a single gift until December. 

Mary: I I've been asked like I started in July asking what Lucy wants for her birthday. And I know that's not practical, but I'm like, okay, I really need to know. I need to know because her birthday is coming up and I have to ship it. I have to do it.

Mary: Whatever. So. No. I meander onto the Taylor Swift merch site, official Taylor Swift site, which I didn't know nothing about. And I know that this woman is a dynamo. She is a powerhouse. She is, I mean, I can't, she must always have to wear shoes. Like she's broken every glass ceiling imagined, right? Like always.

Mary: Um, and I'm sure she has made great decisions and has a great [00:16:00] team. But what blew me away when I went to her site she is a contradiction of every single thing you would ever think of about branding. Let's talk about my, you know, my favorite band, Dave Matthews Band. Okay, or Grateful Dead, which RIP Phil Lesh.

Mary: Any of you deadheads out there who passed away this, this week and I, last, this past weekend, I actually cried. And the last song he ever performed was Sugar Magnolia, which is, I know. Anywho, um, so, but you think of those bands, And they have one, maybe two. If you think of the dead, you have the skull or the dancing bear.

Mary: Think of Dave Matthews. If you saw a fire dancer, you'd go. Dave Matthews, right? Like they have one and they've been around a lot longer than Taylor Swift and they are considered very successful, huge following bands. Taylor Swift, I go on her site and I'm going, Oh my gosh, there's, she must have 20 different brands in there.

Mary: Would you [00:17:00] say like whatever, how many albums? Yes. Yeah. 

Kira: There it's for all the, the different albums. Like, it's not just like a Taylor Swift appreciation t shirt on there. It, it is, it is linked to. An era, you know, which is her whole thing. Genius. You know, the era's 

Mary: tour. There, you know, that's genius. Like, it's so genius because I'm a pretty, I'm a branding snob.

Mary: Like, and I consider myself to be, you know, I play an amateur branding specialist. Like, I think I'm pretty decent at this. I was like, holy crap. I recognize every one of these. As taylor swift they've done such an amazing job. Do you think look look at what they she did look at what that business did They made each era a brand So it's like an umbrella taylor swift, but there's all these Under like every spoke is a different era, which is a different brand.

Mary: She has like 20 different brands Can you think about that? your your selling capacity When you have [00:18:00] managed to brand yourself in so many different ways, she quadrupled it, ten times did, twenty times did, like, from a small business perspective, thinking that way. Now, of course, my brain, as soon as I'm like, okay, I gotta get Lucy's birthday, you know, I found some really cute stuff.

Mary: By the way, if you have a Swifty fan for birthday, Christmas, super cute stuff on there. There's still lots of things on the tail. And they're having a really cute little sale. Cute, cute stuff. I had to get mine in first because, you know, they, because it makes sure everybody knows what I'm getting her. So nobody else could do the same thing because I'm that stingy girl.

Mary: I'm that stingy fairy godmother. Um, so I, I'm thinking, gosh, How could we do this in our own business? Because this goes against every fiber of my being as a brand, right? Because your whole, like, I have lived under this whole Evidently falsehood, according to Taylor Swift's world, it's not by the way, but you know, the power of a strong visual identity and consistency is your number one.

Mary: Every book you read, everything, consistency, [00:19:00] consistency, repetitive, you know, memorable of one, a strong brand presence is a brand. How has this woman done it times 20 and I, I don't know the number guys, but it felt like I saw 20 different brands on there. And I thought, huh, but nope, that's, no, that's Taylor, that's Taylor, that's Taylor.

Kira: As the resident Swifty expert on this 

Mary: podcast. 

Kira: Obviously. Because of my daughter, I mean, you know what I mean? A hundred percent. And I love that we can share this together. And there are things that, I mean, when, talking to Mikayla, by the way, Mikayla knows things that I, Mikayla, Mikayla is much deeper than I.

Kira: About Taylor Swift or just 

Mary: about, she's like, she's, she, talk about a dynamo. I mean, about 

Kira: Taylor Swift and about, about things embedded, like little Easter eggs embedded in, there's little hidden things that I didn't even know we were looking for, but there's, there's things that are hidden. So, um, so anyway, but, okay, so I can equate it to [00:20:00] like artists of the past.

Kira: Like, let's talk about Madonna. Okay. Yeah. Okay, so Madonna, every album, every tour was a different theme, and I think that's Britney Spears is probably, I remember Christina Aguilera had different themes and phases, but not as many that are, the buy in, the audience buy in, to almost collaborate and validate it.

Kira: Each one of these brands that go with these albums or these tours or whatever, you know, has, I don't think has ever been as strong as what Taylor Swift has managed to do because there was, there was like, uh, Christina Aguilera is like dirty, you know, where she was just like filthy all the time and oily and had the dread, the white girl dreads.

Kira: Okay. 

Mary: Yeah. I never, she wasn't one of my people. 

Kira: You remember Madonna's blind ambition tour. I remember, yeah, 

Mary: Madonna, you go back to, If you go back to Lucky Star versus, uh, you know, then she did the cowboy thing. Remember the cowboy one? Oh 

Kira: yeah, was that the music album? Yes, I 

Mary: went to that tour. Is it 

Kira: music?

Mary: Music. No, musicology is [00:21:00] Prince. No, yeah, that is Prince. Okay, that's Prince. Anyway, um, but I actually saw that tour. But what they did is they, Cher did it too, by the way. Each album had a theme, but then it went away. It went away, went away when a new album came out, 

Kira: these have stay power, which is phenomenal.

Kira: And I think it's probably made more solidified because the heiress tour joins them all together as part of the experience, especially with the immersiveness of you being a part of it as an audience member. Yeah. When have we seen, when was the last time that we saw the audience or the client? Client buy in to a brand in this way.

Kira: Everyone is trying to figure out what they're going to wear. And there are hundreds of ways to show that you're a Swiftie. Hundreds of ways. Because each album, not only does it have kind of an overall theme, but there are songs that have themes that go with them. You know what I mean? There are songs that have just pieces [00:22:00] of little, I don't know, um, nuggets that you can, you can wear or you can dress their music videos that just go with one song so you can represent the entire album just by dressing in pajama pants and a white t shirt that says something, you know what I mean?

Kira: Like that, if you're not sparkly, sparkly, swifty with the glitter and the everything, then you can be pajama pants, swifty. the 

Mary: whole boho thing. The boho 

Kira: thing, there's the Folklore album, there's Evermore is the, um, Folklore is where you can wear the pajama pants. Plaid evermore is where you can wear the, um, the witchy stuff.

Kira: The Stevie Nicks y looking witchy look. This is 

Mary: insane to me. 

Kira: It's crazy. And then there's, there's, um, uh, which one is the purple one? Anyway, it doesn't matter. There is, um, was it speechless? Purple rain. No. No, but there's a whole purple one. So you could just be completely drunk. There's midnight. Oh, speak now.

Kira: Speak now. That's right. So, um, but there's midnights, which has got like this Navy sparkle, blue, purple, like, [00:23:00] you know, moon vibe to it or whatever, you know, and like you could literally dress, you could put. 50 people and have every single one dressed differently to represent something at Taylor Swift. I swear to you.

Kira: Okay. So what does that say? 

Mary: Let's be Greg Daniel for a minute. Let's break this down. Why is it, why was this, why was this bourbon tasting unsuccessful? Story for another day. Um, so you just said something incredibly, incredibly powerful. Everybody, everybody can find a space in this world with this brand.

Mary: I'm not going to wear a bodysuit with one leg out, one leg in. I am certainly not going to wear a short, but I've seen mom friends, like a lot of my mom with younger, like you with younger kids. My daughter, by the way, is 28, and she's, on the cruise, our theme was Love Island and Taylor Swift. Like, we did swag, Taylor Swift swag.

Mary: So, it spans generations, right? [00:24:00] But everybody can find a space. I'm not going to wear that, but I would totally do flannel or boho. You know what I mean? The witchy. Like, I could do a Stevie Nicks vibe in a heartbeat. Guess how easy it 

Kira: is. That's how easy it was for me and Michaela and Lisa to, to dress as Taylor Swift.

Kira: It's the new album, Torture Poets, it's black and white. So we just wore black and white. 

Mary: Nice. I could do that. 

Kira: Yeah. Right. There's, and you fit in. There's space for 

Mary: everyone. 

Kira: There's, it's like this spectrum of, of, of space that holds for you, you know, no matter who you are. So you don't have to, you can, you don't have to be the greatest Taylor Swift fan, but you could literally walk in in a suit.

Kira: In a black suit and be like part of the I'm the man song, you know, like, you know what I mean? There's just so many things that you can do and it's like it's so inclusive. It's so welcoming empowering Right. It's just it's you can be a guy anyway So like, you know, like lucy is dressing as as A Taylor Swift for for [00:25:00] how she's doing reputation era Taylor Swift with the one leg out one leg in because she's a baby and she should.

Kira: Yeah, and she should. Um, I because she really wanted me to go as a Taylor Swift, you know, I'm going as evermore Taylor Swift, which means I can wear a long enough. Stevie Nicks skirt and you know a peasant off the shoulder and look I have a little cape. And now I'm a little witchy Taylor Swift. You know what I mean?

Kira: And I can just go and represent. We look completely different. I'm not having to wear spandex to match my daughter but we go together. Because we're, we're part of the zeitgeist of Taylor Swift. 

Mary: And I've actually seen people dress as like the friendship bracelets now. Oh yeah. They come as like dress this friendship bracelets, like, which is interesting.

Mary: But okay, cool. That's, but let's just be clear. Taylor Swift did not invent. Friendship bracelets, uh, Taylor Swift fans did not invent. My mom, when she was born in 1948, they gave her a friendship bracelet in the hospital when she was born. That's how they used to give [00:26:00] babies, that's what the bracelets actually looked like, what we call now our friendship bracelets.

Mary: But that has become a Taylor Swift bracelet. It's like Taylor Swift, you know, that's why people are watching football now because it's like the power of this brand is just insane. It's mind blowing. I also 

Kira: think, I also think it's interesting because, okay, what does the bracelets do for you at a concert?

Kira: I up until I didn't really get the bracelet thing. I remember Alex was actually, your daughter Alex was actually the first person to give me bracelets, you know, because she was making a lot of them. See, we've 

Mary: always done it at dad shows and Dave shows. We always trade 

Kira: bracelets. So, so that's, that's what I'm saying is like, and this isn't only to her, this would go with, you know, Dave Matthews and the dad.

Kira: But to create something that forces you to immediately reach out and meet fellow fans and interact, engage with them and make it feel like it's me. It builds community. I mean, these, so the second we sat down, the second these girls in [00:27:00] front of us turned around, showed us their wrists and we're like, anybody want to trade, you know, and we're all like, yeah, you know, and even Lucy who did not want to trade because these are hers.

Mary: Yeah. 

Kira: Um, she got into it. And was able to trade and they were also so kind, like the people next to us. I remember I kind of gave her a little like heads up, like she's a little nervous about trading some of her favorites. Yeah. And they're like, Oh, it's okay. She doesn't have to give me one here. I want to give her this one.

Kira: It's super special. And like, you know, they gave her one. So there were some beautiful ones, some way more effort than I've ever seen. Yeah. Like some, some high end looking friendship bracelets, um, with the, you know, um, not just the albums, like song lyrics and just little nods to certain pieces of Taylor Swift, um, lore.

Kira: Yeah. Um, it was, I don't know. I mean, I think from a, from a branding standpoint, but it's not just the brand, it's something about the buy in that makes it so magical. And that's what I'm trying to, 

Mary: yeah. How do we put that in a little tiny pill? Like, 

Kira: how do you do that [00:28:00] in such a short time? Because Dave Matthews and, and the Grateful Dead.

Kira: Oh gosh. And you know, they have been, this has been, um, 50 years for someone, you know what I mean? Like. Um, for the dead, but yeah, 35, 

Mary: 30, yeah, 30, yeah, 40, 35, 40, um, yes, just inducted into the hall of fame this past weekend, by the way, 

Kira: well deserved. 

Mary: Yes, well deserved. 

Kira: Um, but how do you, how do we explain that phenomenon that we're somehow she spoke to so many in mass and it just like, Bethany, who you know, who does my hair, right?

Kira: Yeah. One of my dearest friends, not a Swiftie, right? But some song came on that she heard while she was cleaning her house one day. Like I think, I think Gavin put it on like while he was doing something in her house, she's cleaning her house. This Taylor Swift song comes on and it was, I can't remember which one it was, but it spoke to her so strongly.

Kira: She was like, Oh my God, like these lyrics, I feel these lyrics, you know? And Um, she's not, and she's not even interested in finding out more [00:29:00] Taylor Swift songs. This one song is the one that's hers. Right. Right? Like, this song spoke to her. And the last thing I'll say about that when it comes to the lyric stuff, because what's different about these songs that, Aren't regular pop songs that people are attaching to and Kevin very, very had an interesting theory about this.

Kira: Okay, just out of nowhere. He was like thinking about it. He goes, you know, I think that when I think about pop songs, even pop songs from the nineties and eighties that we really loved or whatever, the substance, the storytelling is not typically there. Right. , but in country songs, country music, the kind of country music that we used to like, yep.

Kira: Right in, in the eighties, nineties, seventies, you know, those were storytelling songs those told Yep. About a, a man or a girl or love or whatever truck. Yeah. You know, or a love lost or a, yeah. You know, or. Whatever, whatever, but they all had stories. They did. Right? Every verse had characters through. And he goes, but she comes from country music, right?

Kira: And [00:30:00] she originally was writing country songs. She's written all these songs, right? She originally recorded and wrote country music. And then moved into the pop genre, crossed over, and people were like, Oh, that's not going to work. And, you know, her songs are not going to work. But she never compromised that format.

Kira: There is not a That is 

Mary: very interesting and so true, by the way, like 

Kira: So people don't like country music because they like pop songs, they like the beat, they like the whatever, but they like this because this is telling a story that they It's just to 

Mary: put both together. 

Kira: They resonate, it resonates with them.

Kira: And the storytelling aspect of it. It's true. Not all pop music. No, no. Or you know, you know, but generally your top 40. Yeah. I mean like espresso, you know what I mean? Like, that's out right now. Like, let's be real. But that's the, 

Mary: I, you know, every time. But now all I can hear is the Saturday Night Live skit one

Kira: Yeah, Domingo . But what is, I, I saw something on TikTok recently that the, the writer of that. song, that Rihanna song, that S O [00:31:00] S D, someone help me. That entire section of that song are just titles of songs from the eighties. 

Mary: That's it. 

Kira: All, all of the verse of the, all of it. And the songwriter was being interviewed and he explained that he goes, I had to write the song.

Kira: I couldn't come up with anything. We had a great beat. And so I just started incorporating titles from songs that. He was like, I wrote, I guess he wrote the music too when he was trying to do the lyrics. Couldn't come up with any lyrics. And he was like, I'm just going to name popular songs from the eighties.

Kira: And so you go and listen to that song and all of the titles, everything that she says, he did string them together. So it feels like they are supposed to go together, but they don't, they're just titles of songs. And so that's what I'm saying is like, well, it's so true. 

Mary: I'm thinking about this. This is interesting.

Mary: And this is, oh, we're not talking about Brandy Newman's Bunch anymore, but, but it's, but it's. But, I don't know, maybe we will land this plane eventually, but like, I think [00:32:00] country and then I would, I would even say that rap probably versus pop music. I mean, let's like, you know, you're not going to get a lot of substance from Shebop.

Mary: You know, remember when Hanson, remember that banger that summer when Hanson, that was not by. 

Kira: That's Shebop and Cyndi Lauper. Oh, uh. 

Mary: No, Shebop. UBOP. UBOP. Whatever. Not, no. And I remember not liking that song. That's why it's. It's a trigger for me, but then not but but you think about a lot of rap music. There are a lot of storytellings That's what what a lot of what rap music is It started out more of like slam poetry then became songs and you know, look at Eminem He's got some pretty interesting lyrics.

Mary: So there is storytelling there and definitely 

Kira: spaghetti. Yeah. 

Mary: Yeah Yeah, and then country music but pop music missed it but Taylor That's exactly right. Kevin is straight on. She has taken that and made it and integrated it into pop music because I'm not, I'm trying to think of another pop artist. Now there's going to, you're going to start seeing more of it now because why not?

Mary: I mean, it's, it's a [00:33:00] working formula. People will start copying it. Um, but dang, I hope 

Kira: we do. Yeah, because the substance that it provides and the relatability that it provides. I mean, you can not like the music, but I would argue that there's an album out there that you would like. Oh, a hundred percent.

Kira: Because she tries so many things. Yeah. You know, um, but you can not think that you're not a big tip. My dad's big thing is like, well, she's not like vocally that amazing. She's not. 

Mary: Well, yeah, but most great artists aren't. 

Kira: No. Yeah. It's her songwriting though. Yeah. Is what is so compelling and the fact that she can carry a tune.

Mary: I mean, I was, I went to see the Eagles when you were at Taylor Swift. I was at an Eagle show in Vegas at the sphere. Very different experience. Have you heard Joe Walsh? Like Eagles are pretty famous band. That man, I was sitting in the audience and they were, it was amazing, by the way, highly recommend the show, but he's an amazing guitarist, but he started singing.

Mary: I mean, it kind of hurt a little bit, but if I want to be really honest, sometimes when Dave sings, it hurts a little bit. He's not a great [00:34:00] vocalist, but he's not trying to be. He's writes all of his songs. That's why the dead, the deads there. That's why we follow them. It's because their songs, our stories, every, I know can tell you every one of the lyrics from most dead and Dave songs.

Mary: And there, there is substance there versus. pop type music. And I don't, I like pop music, guys. Don't get me wrong. 

Kira: Sometimes you can't have both. Like Whitney Houston, I don't believe wrote most of her songs. I think she chose a lot of her songs based on, you know, for her taste. She was not a songwriter. But she was not a songwriter, but man, an amazing vocalist.

Kira: She could turn a song. Mariah Carey. Same thing. Mariah Carey, the same. Um, uh, Kelly Clarkson. Kelly Clarkson. 

Mary: Does she is a songwriter, but she has a country background. And I would, I would say she rivals most voices. I think she rivals most voices that she, I don't think she gets enough credit. That woman can sing anything like, oh, she, my husband has a mad crush on Kelly Clarkson.

Mary: He 

Kira: watches Clarkson is amazing. She [00:35:00] can sing, she can sing like anyone. Well, she can, she can take someone else's song and sing it, perform it perfectly like they do. And then she can take her own spin on it. And it's amazing. But, um, well, so can Ariana Grande, actually. You're not wrong about that. She's 

Mary: a great little actress, by the way.

Kira: Domingo. Yes. But, um, but, but when we think about Kelly Clarkson's a great example, because this is somebody who came from a country music background. Right? Right. Writing. Songs that spoke to her Dolly Parton's songs have while she's not recorded them as pop Dolly Parton songs that she's written has crossed over into the pop genre.

Kira: Many times. Yes. You know? Yes. So I think that's interesting too. So I think I think it's a formula that Taylor Swift did not invent. But I think it is a formula that Taylor Swift has been able to do. use in a way that no one has before. 

Mary: It's just amazing. And just, you know, just the. So guys, I guess my whole point is, is that I love to walk and I like Taylor Swift.

Mary: I'm not, I wouldn't call [00:36:00] myself a Swifty. My daughter definitely is. Her friends are like, I love Lucy is. I mean, to the point where, you know, everybody from Kira's mom, me, we all, you know, can relate to Taylor Swift stuff because of the, the, multi generations now so obsessed with her. Rightly so. I think she's amazing.

Mary: I, I have no, I, I, when people diss her, it makes me actually angry because I think, well, you don't get it. But 

Kira: as long as she didn't show up in P Diddy's guest list, I'm like, I'm like, please, 

Mary: please. Well, I, I would say, I would say also, I think I am very appreciative of her political support and I'll just leave it at that.

Mary: But, um, but you know, I, I think that, um, to just opening that website today and someone again who studies brands, successful and not. I was like, huh, this is really a lot, which is like, number one, rule one broken to gosh, all these brands, the rule two, she, every rule was broken successfully. And I'm like, okay, now [00:37:00] I need to, and I don't have any answers today, by the way.

Mary: So sorry guys, I need to really sit down and figure out, okay, what are some little nuggets, some little Easter eggs that I can take from this. that I could do. Now, I don't think I can be everything to everybody. Like, there's some things that just, no, me as a little, you know, two man operation, no. But there are some lessons that we could learn here.

Mary: And what could we do in our community, in our little corner of the world, so to speak? What could we do to be our own little Taylor Swift empire? Like, what is one thing we could do? There's got to be something, you know what I mean? Like, becoming known as something. So, you know, it's like we were joking about, you know, putting your, um, guarantee at the top of your funnel, and you came up with that sock idea.

Mary: Like, if you don't love your headshot, then knock your socks off. Like, I, somebody reached out to me a couple weeks ago, they told me, Have started doing that and now and and they're they found a vendor and they're actually just now giving everybody socks. Now they're getting [00:38:00] people are booking headshots because they because they're the same with the 

Kira: socks.

Mary: Yeah, that's an example. That's not a that's not the friendship bracelet craze. But if people are coming to you because they know they're going to get a pair of socks, Because that's become your thing. Isn't that interesting? Like, 

Kira: it's fascinating. I think the whole thing you could write a paper on, 

Mary: you know what I mean?

Mary: Oh, a hundred percent. You can go, there's, well, there's entire college courses on this. Somebody needs 

Kira: to be well on Taylor Swift alone. Yeah. I mean, I think 

Mary: there 

Kira: are. Are there I bet there are but you know, because You're gonna look it up right now because 

Mary: now i'm afraid i'm wrong, but I thought I heard that I really did Um, go ahead.

Kira: There's been more obscure college college courses But I think I think what is the takeaway for me that I want to sort of ruminate on? From a branding perspective is the ownership that people the buy in that is causing The clients to feel ownership as if this is something special that this is she has done for me, right?

Kira: Like 

Mary: the [00:39:00] buy 

Kira: in. And so maybe that's something we can pull from this. It's like, how do we make our clients feel like the work resonates with them so hard that they want to, they wear it like it's a badge on them. 

Mary: You know 

Kira: Oh, a hundred 

Mary: percent. It becomes a part of their identity to being a Swiftie. It becomes a part of their identity.

Mary: They have a name. And these groups, and I know that Beyonce has hers Is it Hive? Is that what it is? Like, you know, and, you know, we, you know, the little DMV fan, like there are groups that have that, but people are now, I'd be identifying as a swiftie has become a part of someone's identity. And just FYI, I'm not, I'm an idiot.

Mary: They don't just have it. when I looked that up, Kira, it said, it's not, it actually says. It's not yet a college degree, but here's the colleges that are, some of the colleges that offer Taylor Swift courses, Harvard, Northeastern, Oxford, University of South Carolina, I mean, [00:40:00] uh, NYU, you, um, okay, so yeah, it's not a, but it's, you can, what, what that actually is, is you don't, it's not a degree yet.

Kira: Oh, come on. No, it's funny, but it's not, but it's not a accident. Oh, it's so 

Mary: purposeful. It's so genius. It's 

Kira: and I think that we would be remiss to think that she doesn't have a team that that advises her on these things. But I think that this, but it's coming out of her head. It has to. You know what I mean?

Kira: It has to. Because you can't, a team can't do anything with anything unless they have content, right? And she's pouring out content after, I mean, I hope she takes a good long break because the girl has put out an album every five minutes for like the last decade. So like she needs to take a break. Yeah, she does.

Mary: You know, and she did. She, she took a pretty long break and she was, she was kind of off the grid. For what, three or four years, she didn't have anything. And then she 

Kira: did, but wasn't the last concert like yesterday? Oh, no, no. I met [00:41:00] 

Mary: before that. Now, now it feels like she's been on tour for three years. Um, but never before that first album came out and I.

Mary: Before this all started, the eras toward, and I didn't get it, but it didn't, anyway, I didn't get what it was at first, but I can't remember the first album that came as the one that had, uh, the first one that she came out with it, it was the first one in three or four years, but now that, that's been, yes, it was probably a couple years ago, right?

Mary: And then, so, and then I guess she'll take another hiatus. And people are like, Oh my gosh, she's just doing this. Well, she's not doing it overnight, guys. She'll take a three to four or five year hiatus. And she 

Kira: I had somebody say, Well, how many eras could she have? She's not even been doing it that long.

Kira: Guys, she has been doing it a 

Mary: long time. Yeah. 

Kira: You know. 

Mary: Since she was like 12. So. 

Kira: Yeah. You're just noticing now because you can't not notice it. 

Mary: Yeah. At this 

Kira: point. I mean, haters are going to hate, 

Mary: I guess, but man, oh man, the girl is just 

Kira: Well, I, I'm not here. I think if you, if anything, you don't have to like the [00:42:00] music.

Kira: 100%. I think if you gave it a chance, you'd be hard pressed not to find something that you like. And I know that I have a unique experience because there was stuff I could not, not hear because Lucy's going to listen to all of it. Right? And so, to relate with my daughter and be able to, you know, speak her language and that sort of thing.

Kira: Of course, I'm gonna, I'm gonna listen and learn. We listened to it in the car. So, I mean, I'm, I'm well versed on every album now, you know, but, um, yeah. So, I wouldn't expect every person who is not liking Taylor Swift or thinks they don't like Taylor Swift to go and listen to every single album. But, if the, at the very least, you can respect the fact that this is a genius design, well thought out business plan, and that she is She's got a smart head on her shoulders, right?

Kira: She's something to 

Mary: be admired. Well, think about it. Yes, of course, she has a team. Of course, guys. I mean, we're not idiots. But I've seen a lot of people with some pretty idiotic teams. Like, you know what I mean? That's what happens, right? You have to have something going for [00:43:00] you. If you put together a team that has helped you build something that amazing and overall, she's remained, I mean, except for, you know, falling in love and writing about it.

Mary: There's not a lot of criticism. I mean, if you, you know, she's just kept pretty, her hands pretty, I mean, she seems like a decent human being and like, you know, I don't hear a lot of bad press about her and, and, and all of that being so public. It's just it's an it's just an enigma like it's just so much and but I'm really I'm so I'm so glad that I made you buck You know made nailed you down today about getting lucy's birthday and christmas presents because looking at her website for me It's just my mind is just spinning because I love it when things, you know how with image competition guys, um, Hey and shade out shout out to all of our friends walking and imaging, but we got to give our good friend Kate Uh, if you're listening, we can't wait for you to walk across the stage and Dallas get your master's of photography Um, but um, you know, we we love when we see an image that breaks rules Like, don't you as a judge get excited?

Mary: It's like, [00:44:00] Oh, it's, it's, it's, I know it's bullseye competition. And there's no presentation, but when it breaks the rules, it's like, whoa, now I'm in, now I'm into it. Now I'm really in, why is this so awesome? And I need to, there's some awesomeness we can glean from this. Well, I think 

Kira: there's a foundation. I think you would, I think you can see that there, she has the foundation in the roles.

Kira: I mean, this is somebody who music makes from, from all aspects. Like she's recording her, she's controlling, she's re recording and re releasing her own music. So from the songwriting to the actual instrument playing, the, you know, the lyrics, she's also producing the albums now. I mean, This person has her hands in every part of music, the costume, the lighting.

Kira: You cannot say that she doesn't have a right and ownership to have understand the rules in the foundation. Correct. And then because she has that ownership and understands the rules in the [00:45:00] foundation and knows how to wear all the hats, she can then choose to break it. 100%. Right. And so it, it directly, 

Mary: I think that's a really great directly 

Kira: relates to To, um, M.

Kira: I. R. and to putting your images or image competition, it's like, look, there's sometimes there's stuff where it's clear this person knows what they're doing. They've chosen. This is the intent. 

Mary: You have to know the rules to break the rules. 

Kira: Right. This is the intent of the maker to break this hard and fast rule, whatever it is.

Kira: But there's a big difference though, right? 

Mary: There's a big difference. When you see that, you're like, No, they knew they broke the rule versus they didn't know the rule. I don't know how to describe that. You know what I'm talking about, right? Like, I 

Kira: know, I know when I see it. 

Mary: Yeah. And it's like, don't tell me you're just trying to be artsy.

Mary: You didn't, you don't understand. I'm working on certification stuff right now. I 

Kira: think there's times where somebody is trying to break a rule that they've seen broken and they like it. And so they're trying, [00:46:00] I'll, I'll give you a great 

Mary: example. 

Kira: Give you a great example. You know how, like, in Hollywood Reporter or in Vanity Fair, you get this, like, uh, cyan toned color wash, um, that, that is obvious that it's a, it's not white balance, it's not correct white balance, it's not real skin color, but there's, I mean, Annie Leibovitz does it all the time, right?

Kira: All the time. It's, it's this hue shift that is intentional and part of the style and the brand of that maker, right? And then somebody sees it and they want to imitate it. And so they go and they just color their whole thing blue. 

Mary: Correct. That's a really good example. 

Kira: Right? And because they don't see the difference between what is an intentional breaking of the rules.

Kira: An intentional color washer shift, right? Because they're trying to evoke a mood. They're trying to evoke a story with it, right? Right. And blue. Correct. Just coloring everyone's skin blue. 

Mary: That's 

Kira: an excellent 

Mary: example. And I would say, even relating it back to Taylor Swift, we have seen lots of people pop [00:47:00] up.

Mary: Right. And I can think of, and this is probably not going to be a very popular opinion, but Chapel Rowan is huge right now. She blew up overnight. She's breaking all the rules. She's so talented. She is, but she's breaking all the rules out of the gate. And I don't think she understood the rules to break them.

Mary: And I don't think she has staying power 

Kira: because of the way she's 

Mary: handling her PR, like everything she's doing. And I get it. And I appreciate and respect her, um, as an artist and as a human. But I don't think, I'm not saying you have to earn the right to break the rules, but you kind of have to earn the right to break the rules, meaning you had to at least understand the rules to break them.

Mary: And I don't think she came out of the gate understanding them. Taylor was a mainstream, she was on that, remember it was a big controversy, she was on that wall in Nashville, they put her on, they painted her on that wall, they ended up painting her out because she became too much of a pop star. But she was a mainstream, she did all of the normal stuff.

Mary: And then broke all the rules, if that makes sense. I think all of us probably earned our degrees on the mainstream, and now we're doing the fun stuff. Like, [00:48:00] I don't know. 

Kira: I don't disagree with you on the chapel run thing, and I think it'll be interesting to see if she has staying power. I think from an artist standpoint and a songwriting standpoint, she has something, and her voice is amazing, right?

Kira: Like, she can really kill it. But I think a mature, like, emotional intelligence and maturity wise, And a team. And the team. And then the getting to her, she's been trying to find success for some time, but she's still only like 23. Oh yeah, she's young. You know what I mean? Or she's very early 20s, you know, but she's got albums before this, but they're all completely different.

Kira: Just like Taylor Swift, they're all completely different kinds of albums. This album, totally different, like a new persona almost that she's trying to come out with. And I think. it's not working the same way because we don't have the buy in to begin with with the other albums. It's almost like she tried on clothes.

Mary: She 

Kira: tried a character, she tried several characters on. 

Mary: Yeah. 

Kira: And this is the one that's resonating most with people. And so this is the one she's running with. [00:49:00] And, and I don't really know who she is. And don't you find when people go 

Mary: viral, that's what happened, that song went viral, and then they become famous kind of overnight.

Mary: And we're seeing more and more of that happening because of platforms like TikTok and things like that. The staying power just isn't there. And this, we're going to have to cut this conversation off because we could talk three hours about this because now what that's leading to is some major mental health issues, emotional issues, because we're not, we are not as human beings capable of, um, of our life exploding overnight and becoming famous.

Kira: I can't imagine. I can barely make it when there's one conflict in my life. I can barely, like, get up in the morning sometimes. Fair enough. I mean, it's like, let's, let's put on the 

Mary: concrete shoes. But the problem is, is that you don't have that staying power. Very few people can maintain that. And then they lose all of that.

Mary: And now the depression and that's why you are seeing an uptick in a lot of mental health suicide. I mean you're seeing it I mean, I feel like every other day. It's another tick tock supers or influencer and you're you know that have um, You know falling down that rabbit hole as a [00:50:00] matter of fact We could talk about one direction and how I watched xmas about the band And how they were kind of forced together and then when they went through separate ways how some of them did well And some of them didn't which led to addiction issues emotional issues and now, you know, one of them passed away You There's just a lot of, a lot of thoughts there.

Mary: And now I've really gone off. I'm sorry, guys. I got off tangent there, but it's just interesting. 

Kira: But with Chaperone, I'm rooting for her. I am too. You know, cause I think the raw talent is there. And I, her voice to me is amazing. When she built some of those songs, like Pink Pony Club is like, Yes, I love that song.

Kira: I'll dance around that my, uh, house and that song all day long. Right. But, um, she, I, I'm rooting for her. I hope she makes it past this phase and we see more from her, but I don't think that she's got, like I said, I do think she's putting on different, I know she developed the character of Chapel Row, right.

Kira: Like to, to go with this album, right. And that she worked on it for a long time. And then she it's, she's a performance artist, you know what I mean, but it's, it's not even the same as like, [00:51:00] Lady Gaga, right? Lady Gaga is the chameleon, right? Like, like, she can come in and, and have all different looks. She, I, the woman never looks the same to me.

Kira: You know what I mean? Like, I'm not even sure what Lady Gaga's face looks like. Oh, I know. I was like, is 

Mary: that Lady Gaga? Like, I actually had to ask Daryl the other day. I was like, is this, is this, is this her? Because it's so different. You know, if she's on stage or she's wearing a meat dress or she's performing in Vegas with Tony Bennett and has a Lawrence Welk arc.

Mary: orchestra behind her and she's dressed, I mean, that's, 

Kira: I mean, that's the one we could also go on a tangent on, but I think Lady Gaga also puts on different personas and acts in his performance art in the same way that I think Chapel Rowan is imitating, but I don't think it is working yet. So, either she's gonna, she's gonna come out of this and it's gonna, she'll come out on top or she'll fade out, but I, I hope she stays for her sake, because she's a young 

Mary: girl.

Mary: She is, but to land that plane, I think, I promise I'll shut up about it, but this is the, this is where she's, what she's gonna need to do, and this is what Taylor did, and this is what, Lady Gaga [00:52:00] did. At some point, you have to have a foundation to build all that crazy off of, and I don't think that she has a foundation yet.

Mary: That's what I'm saying. Like, she has a, Taylor had a foundation. Madonna had a foundation. She doesn't have the buy in. Yeah. You have to have that. As who you are authentically before we can go on this roller coaster ride with you. So we'll be interested to see if she does. And I, I'm reading forward to, um, I think she's amazingly talented.

Mary: I hope she doesn't just hit the, you know, and then, you know, I just have seen so many lately just go up and then just, you know, plummet. So it's just interesting. Like some are slow burns, you know, and some are just overnight sensations. I would always prefer to be a slow burn. And I believe Taylor was, cause she put in the work.

Mary: For years, building this, um, you know, um, but so, you know, we all are putting in the work and we've building this foundation or brand, but kind of going off these examples that we've given, what can we do in our own business to kind of, you know, you know, get a little bit of an edge or a little bit [00:53:00] of a leaning edge and you're competitively with your brand.

Mary: There's got to be something we can glean from that. So I guess that's my whole point. 

Kira: Some sort of establishing that connection so strong that, that there's ownership between you, the client feels like they, you, you are their photographer. 

Mary: Oh, I love the way you put that. You 

Kira: are the one that, that writes their music.

Kira: I love. You are the one that creates, that shows their story on paper. Boom. Right, like. That's it. That's it. 

Mary: That's it. 

Kira: That's it. 

Mary: That's it. That's it. That's 

Kira: what we have to strive for. 

Mary: Yeah. 

Kira: Right. Not, not trying to be something that we're not, right. But trying to establish that connection where they couldn't go to someone else because they don't understand them like you do.

Mary: And that's, that's, that's where you, that's a good start. And I think that, you know what, if this is resonating with you guys, I hope so. I hope, um, you know, sit down and write that out, go to chat, have a conversation with chat about you, start incorporating that into your identity and help. And, and I know it's weird, but I've had a lot of conversations with chat now, [00:54:00] because it helps my brain now because I can actually get feedback.

Mary: Do you feel that way about it? Yeah, yeah, it helps me get the feedback I need, but like, start asking yourself and essentially talking through with either a business partner or a mentor or chat, whatever, but figure out those little things. Cause there's always ways we can amplify that. And, and, and we can do that.

Mary: We do have the power to do that. And. Um, I will promise, you know, we can end on this note, but Jamie and I had a very similar conversation last night. We have one amazing client, but Jamie's like, I think I'm her only friend. Like, you know, I love her, but it's two hours on the phone. Um, but, um, we've had three recently that have had some major life things happen, loss of a parent, you know, loss of a spouse.

Mary: And we were one. We were literally one of the first people notified and included in, because we'd photographed their family for so long, they're like, I'm not saying before their family, but on their top of their list, like, we knew you'd want to know and, and, you [00:55:00] know, here's the services. And we've been to three funerals in the past month for that, because we, they called because we're their photographer.

Mary: So I think that, I think that completely, you know, solidifies what you just said. So, well, it's been on a really negative note. I apologize. 

Kira: No, not at all. In fact, extra long episode because, you know, it's a bonus. 

Mary: It's a bonus one. Yes. You can break this into pieces, but we love you guys. Well, you know, it's talking about 

Kira: music.

Mary: Woo. Yeah. God knows we love music. I'm 

Kira: going to, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to share one last thing. Do it. It's fun. Uh, I was out with, uh, uh, at a Halloween party, uh, with Bethany this weekend and we were, we were with some of her co workers who are younger because they're, they're hairstylists and Bethany and I just kept talking about movies and trying to engage them and, and talking about, uh, scary movies, you know, and the more we talked about movies and like scary movies or anything, just the more we got like deep, we would be deep.

Kira: Finding ourselves like in a conversation with each other about it. Yeah. And they, and I was like, I love how I'm actively [00:56:00] driving all of, all of the party goers away because they would find their way out of the conversation and walk away. Meanwhile, me and Bethany are still talking about like America while we're in London.

Kira: And like, we look around, we're like, Oh, they love it. Yeah. Not 

Mary: very story brand of you. Not very StoryBrand of you. Not very StoryBrand daily. I can 

Kira: alienate anyone with a nerdy conversation. I can 100 

Mary: percent alienate people. I'm really talented at that. I am very, very talented at that. As a matter of fact, somebody sent me a TikTok.

Mary: It's such a part of my identity. Someone sent me a TikTok and I saw it this morning when I got up and it's like a witch on a broom in a grocery store aisle. Obviously not. Oh, it's a cat dressed as a witch on a broom in a grocery store aisle. And what it says is the cat's like coming down the aisle and it says when you see a, you see a friend from high school and the cat, you turn to like a zip out of the grocery store.

Mary: And I'm like, and they literally just put you and I'm like, Yeah, that's, that's me. That's me. You're [00:57:00] friendlier than me. So I'm, I'm even worse. I literally should have a sign around my neck. Like most like dogs, not friendly, not friendly. All right, we're going to wrap it up, guys. Sorry. Thank you guys for listening.

Mary: We appreciate you. I apologize. 

Kira: Uh, well, uh, you guys can follow us on Instagram and get your shoot together. You can follow us on Facebook and get your shoot together. You can email us at girl at get your shoot together. com and subscribe to us everywhere where podcasts are played. We will see you guys next time.

Kira: Thanks y'all.