Episode 187 - AI FTW!

This week, Kira and Mary dive into the world of AI tools and how photographers can use them to level up their businesses. From creating custom family poses with ChatGPT to leveraging Google Earth Studio for perfect location planning, they share practical tips to streamline your workflow. Whether it’s automating SEO, building client rapport, or solving last-minute challenges during shoots, AI is the secret sauce! Plus, hilarious stories of on-set mishaps and why you should always listen to your chair. Don’t miss this episode packed with insights and laughter! Listen now!

This episode was written and performed by Mary Fisk-Taylor and Kira Derryberry, produced by Kira Derryberry and edited by Joel North.

Transcript

 This week's episode is brought to you by our friends at retouch up. Retouch up. Work smarter, not harder.

Welcome to Get Your Shoot Together, the photographer's podcast where we discuss studio business life and keeping it all 

in line. 

I 

am Kira Derryberry. And I am Mary Fisk-Taylor. Hello. Hello. Week before Thanksgiving. That's why we're recording this. I don't know. 

Who knows? Who knows when it'll come out?

Maybe you're driving to be with family and you're listening to this and, uh, we're happy to keep you company while you do so. 

We are. Always. 

Mary, I have to, I've already shared the story with you, but it's still, it's, what is it, a week later since it happened, and it's still, I'm still traumatized from it, so I gotta share.

Yeah, I'm just gonna set the scene. So, obviously, thing. We're just busy, right? It's fourth quarter. Things are busy. You know, um, you know, we all, we have families that we're, we're, we're, we're worried about. We're trying to get through the holidays. We're trying to think, Oh, Christmas, red and corn, take care of our clients.

You know, so we've all got a lot on us and Kira's had a lot of extra stuff, you know, she's got some extra stuff going on. Our daughter's about turn 16, like lots and lots and lots of stuff. And this is the, and this is the text I get. I, I, I'm going to just, I'm going to just preface it with, I burst out laughing.

And this is terrible when you hear what happened.

Yeah. So, um, I am in an order session. I had just returned from meetings in Atlanta and, uh, and you know, anytime we have meetings in Atlanta, um, for PPA, it's always a lot to do and busy. So, um, uh, stressed from that. I'm home. I'm doing my order session with my clients. Okay, the first thing that happened, and I don't know if I told you this, but the first thing that happened is I realized that I have left the charger to my laptop, which I do my sales sessions from a laptop in my sales room, right?

And I've left that charger at home. So, and the computer is dead, dead, dead. And so I can't, so now I have to move because I can't do it for my office with them. And they're here in the studio. And I'm running behind on everything, right? And so I realized this too late. They're already here. I go, I dismantle my entire machine, like my, um, the cube, the Apple cube.

Yeah, my whole desktop, bring it over, set it all up there. And I'm like, I'm sorry, this will just be really quick. No problem. You know, I'm acting like it's not a big deal. I'll pull my, scoot my little chair up, sit down and we start to do orders. But my screen that I have brought in is enormous. So every time I talk to them, I have to, you know, Whip my head around the screen so I can see them, you know, so I'm, I'm just like shifting over to the right over and over again.

And eventually, like, I don't know, 10 minutes into the sales session, I lean out to talk to them from around the thing. And I mean, there's this is where it 

went wrong. This is the 

chair breaks out from under me and I go flying to the right because I am shifting, you know, leaning to the right so I can. And so I hit my.

hip and elbow so hard onto the hard, hard floor of my studio. And it was not a soft sound. Like it's a big, the whole thing, whole thing collapses. I fall. And, um. To the ground in front of her client. Just completely to the ground. So 

now you're like at their feet. So I'm just trying to help. Give people a visual.

And 

they're like, oh my god, are you okay? And I'm like, 

Did you bounce up like Mary Kathleen Gallagher? Like, literally. 

Yes. Bounced right up. Yeah. And then I didn't, I didn't sit again for the rest of this. Hell no. Well, you don't have a chair. So I'm like, kind of, just kind of holding my elbow and talking to them.

They're like, really? Are you okay? I'm like, oh, right as rain. Super fine. Couldn't be better. Couldn't be better. I was like, I am going to go home after this. 

I'm going to go straight to the urgent care, but other than that, I'm all good. 

I like couldn't assess the damages. Like I knew, I knew it wasn't great, but I was aware that 

you took your pants down and checked your bruise or your hip or whatever.

Well, yeah. Well, that didn't show up till much later, but I was just like the, just the impact. I remember like feeling like my bones all shifted to the left. Like, you know, just, just, you know, um, anyway, and so I, I did not pass go, I went immediately home and, um, the, the old lady bruise that I have had as a result of this, it looks like I got hit with a baseball 

bat.

It does. I've seen, because of course I got texted a picture of the broken chair and the bruise, as you do. And, uh, So, but just guys at the top of the week, she had had, she gets home, she's rushing. She's like, and then literally that I'm just, all I get on my phone is just a chair of the broken chair. And I immediately burst into laughter because it's just, at this point, it's so ridiculous.

That I'm like, what else could happen? Like, are the locusts on their way to the Tallahassee studio right now? As we speak, like, send in the frogs, send in something like, 

you know, I, I don't know. Oh my God. But, you know, you can have it all, Mary, because I still, it was a good sale. It was a great sale. No one died.

And that's 

all I can say. I can't tell if they're just, if they're just, you know, more reserved, because I kept making jokes at my own expense, like, for the rest of the session, you know, I was like, by the way, when I'm, if I'm ever teaching a class on sales, I will be telling this story, like, and they were like, oh, okay.

It was like, they really wanted to move on very quickly from it, and I, I wanted to linger in the, because, because you don't, it wasn't just, you like, oh, I tripped, and I almost fell. No, it was a crash. It was so colossal. It was, it was like a, like a chest of drawers fell face forward onto the floor. It was the loudest, most embarrassing thing.

And, you know, no lady likes it when a chair breaks out from under them. Let's be real. No, I mean, that's 

the worst part. That, that part I did not laugh at, by the way. I did not laugh at that part because that is like one of my, I will stand for the rest of my life. Like if I think, if I look at a chair and that chair looks back at me and I'm not sure.

No ma'am. No ma'am. 

It didn't, it didn't buckle under my, my weight or anything. No, it was a, it was a scooch. A screw, I found the screw. I found the screw that had evidently popped, like, had loosened and popped out of it. It was like a little gremlin came and, like, unscrewed something out of the bottom of it.

Like, it, I found the screw on the floor. So it had popped free. 

Yeah. 

And. Like, and the screw was stripped. So obviously it had been, it's like a used chair. I mean, it was a chair that I had for a long time. 

No, It was that twist. It was that lean. Yep. And then the screw goes and then the chair went, I'm out.

I'm out. I give up. I give you win. Yeah. Now you hit the floor. Uh, I mean, cause it's, It's always a bit like I get embarrassed if like it can be a really yeah We've all had we're on a session and I forget the sandbag or something happens and like my light blows over and of course They're like, oh my gosh, and then they're like, it's everything and then they're worried about your equipment and then you're I'm just so I don't Know why that embarrasses me so bad Because they're 

all because they're all like Are you okay?

It's almost like you fell. Like your softbox falls face plants onto the ground and they're like, 

are you okay? Do we need to go to the hospital? And you're like, no, it's a softbox. It bounces. It's good. But it's, yeah. So me, if I fell, I don't know, I don't know what to do. I might've just crawled right on out the front door and just told him so 

awful.

It was, I just went, I just basically, if I could've Stayed on the floor, 

you know, 

like if staying on the floor had been an option. 

Yeah, 

I would have but I said no I sprung back up and then I was like walk it off walk it off, you know, shake it off press 

some dirt on it You got this. Yeah, you know, but I wouldn't care Jamie Hayes I mean he's fallen more times than I can count and he just he does not face him at all Yeah, men, that's less, 

that's less for men.

I don't know. Something about a woman breaking a chair. I just feel like. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. I mean, I wish it had just broken. Here's, and here's the worst part. And I don't think I told you this part either. I heard a noise in the chair. Like I heard something and it probably was the screw popping out at some point.

Like it was probably that, but I, I was so like frazzled from having to bring the computer and set the computer up in here and do the whole. Bring my keyboard and do, I mean, just, you know what I mean? And I heard this noise and I was like, Oh God, I'll, I'll see what that was later. It didn't occur to me that the chair was 

giving me a warning.

Hey friend, not today. Not today, friend. Today is not the day for you to sit your butt in this chair. You missed the warning. Yeah. So now, now it's, now it's your fault. Yeah. I could have avoided it. You did not heed the call of the. Literally, it was sounding an alarm. It was like, I cannot take no more. I too am done.

Um, I too. Um, oh man. All right. Well, let's take a break. Let's pause for the cause so we can hear from our amazing sponsors. And be right back. Hey, 

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And we are back. Mary, I, I feel like, I've just been picking up a lot of little nuggets lately. Nothing is like, new and exciting and whatever, but just a little, do you feel like that? You feel like you're picking up little, little things here and there, like that are like helpful tips. 

Yes. Yes. Um, every, I feel like I go on Tik TOK and I see something or I'm talking to you or another, you know, photographer, or I just stumble across it, you know, like I'm online and all of a sudden there's something pops up or what I've got started doing now is like, if I need to do something and I'm like, Oh.

I actually would now Google or go on chat and look up, can this be done? And it's like, yes. And I'm like, yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Um, and it's interesting because, um, you know, I don't think we've, we have not talked since I did that AI analog. And I know. And how did that go? I mean, I know it 

went. 

Yes, it went great.

So, but the, the point, the thing is, is that I was the analog artist on the panel and everybody else was AI. It was like an AI person from Amazon, one from Google. It was just all from the UK. And, um, I felt like an idiot and I felt like, why am I here? And I was very overwhelmed and I felt very imposter syndrome, like crazy, but it went so well.

But Point being, I mean, listening to them, I was taking notes, and somebody asked me, there were several artists, um, there, British artists and different people there, and they were all very, um, you know, aren't you like, don't you hate this, and don't you hate I. I., and don't this, that, da, da, da, and, um, and, uh, I was like, um, no, I love it.

I absolutely love it. Like I use it and some of them, but I think at that point decided I was not a good fit because I'm not, I'm not. I didn't go on that panel to diss AI. I didn't go on that panel to say AI is terrible and it's taking over my life and it's going to ruin me. Because I don't believe that.

You were the one they were planting for drama. 

That's what they were trying to, 

they were trying to get you to like, you know, Yeah, I think they thought I was going to 

be more of a purist. And I'm like, no, I mean, I use AI every day. And I said, and I said, and by the way, we've been using it in retouching and in editing forever.

Well, that's not the same. And I'm like, I understand it's not the same as, you know, you know, these other facets, but it is AI. AI, it's kind of like all or nothing at this point, right? Like you, you just pick the pieces. It's like seasoning, you know, and that's exactly what I said. You said that in Parliament, like, who uses the word, use the word pepper in, in your speech to Parliament.

And I said, it's like seasoning, you know, some people like a lot of pepper, some people don't like any pepper, like you just pick what you use. And I feel like overall, most people enjoyed it, but there were some diehard artists in the, in the, um, 

They were hoping you would be their voice on them. 

Yeah, yeah.

I can't, I can't though, I do, I use it. 

It doesn't, yeah, I mean, um, I was on a job the other day, um, you know, doing two headshots at a high rise building, you know, setting up an entire studio set up. I mean, when you think about how much work goes into getting two guys headshots done in their office, yeah, I can see how, you know, wouldn't this just be faster and easier?

Even, even you know, less disruptive, you know what I mean? To, I mean, I'm, I'm taking over their entire, like, waiting area, trying to set up for these headshots. They were in the office while I was setting up, actually talking, one guy was telling the other guy, you know, you can pay like 40 and, and this company will like, you know, take a photo of you and, for your entire company, and then put that head on like, a bunch of different bodies, and that will be the entire company's, like, headshots, and I'm just sitting there going.

It's really hard to, I felt like a relic, All of a sudden, you know what I mean? Because I was, I was putting together, I was labor, it was very labor intensive. I was like putting together three lights, you know, on stands, setting up a background, moving furniture, trying to get enough space so that I could be at a, uh, enough distance to get a three quarter shot of these guys.

And I was just thinking, yeah, that's a better. I mean, I would rather do that, too, than have all the steps. No kidding. You know, like, I get it. I get it. But then, there's an authenticity that's lost on it. You know, I mean, because then nobody looks like themselves. It's not just that you're, they're sticking your head on top of it.

They're using AI to generate your head, which never looks exactly correct. And, um, and some people don't care about that. But, I mean, we had an interesting conversation about it when they came out of, you know, of the office. And, I explained, you know, that I was a part of it. An organization lobbying against, you know, things like that in order to have more longevity in the career.

So I, like, The image, part of it, and the threat that it creates for, for us in our industry, it's hard to argue, like, I'm finding it harder and harder to argue because I'm just sitting there going, Yeah, it would be so much better if you could just give me your headshot. Maybe that's me at some point. Maybe just give me your headshot and from all these bodies that I've shot, I'm going to put it together.

I don't know, Mary. I don't know, but that was, uh, So let 

me ask you this. So one thing I. understood not too long ago. So one of the, one of the parts, parts, Part of my presentation was where I showed an image that I created and painted and, and, and then I showed them how I took that exact image and put it into AI and I asked them to replicate it.

And then what it saw what that replicate and it was beautiful. But it came out as beautiful. But then I put them side by side. And my point is, I said, now this, I asked it to, you know, I prompted it to do exactly exactly to do exact. Okay. Which one is mom going to want and everybody's like, well, of course, like it's, it's an obvious choice because AI is not, it can't, it doesn't really, not yet.

I'm not saying I don't know what's going to happen down the road. It definitely is not there, but I think that's, I think that's at least, I think that's a lot farther out than we think that it will actually generate an, you know what I mean? That we're going to have, well, I don't say that it doesn't exist.

I don't know when we will have access to it because this is what I heard. And I think you've said this, and I think we've talked about this, but. They've also started backing off and pulling back on that because it's getting too, the fakes are getting too, uh, that situation's getting too out of hand. So, I felt like earlier on with, like, with Midjourney or running things through chat, I thought the images were better.

I think they're getting worse. Yeah. Yeah. We talked about that. They're getting worse because the 

bots are, because the bots are, are confirming that they're valid and it's like, it's forgetting, it's forgetting what a, what a face looks like and what hands look like and things like that. How many fingers 

you have and all this stuff.

And that was another thing I said, I said, and this is a family of five that I photographed and I asked the, I put in the same exact prompts. for chat to create a family and like that one had seven fingers when it and one of the guys clap AI guys clap back he goes well yeah you can put that in but I mean it's not gonna be that way forever and I said okay I understand I'm just telling you that it still doesn't replace the real and then of course I passed I Hand carried like four brush oil portraits framed over there and I passed them around the house of lords and people are holding them and I mean, and the cool thing is I've gotten a lot.

I'm still getting people emailing back and saying thank you so much. And it was really good. And it was just for me to go in as just a quote unquote lowly photographer, you know, portrait artists, whatever. Um, to get the feedback I got was really, I thought it was very promising. So whereas you have two dudes in the office saying, Oh, for 40 bucks, you can get, you know, a library of 15 different images and you can have your headshot in Tuscany or in New York, Empire State Building or, you know, whatever, or on safari and dah, dah, dah, dah.

Okay, fine. But I still don't, I still lean into the fact that what, for the first time in how many years Kodak was actually profitable for the sale of film and, um, and photographic paper. Albums are still up, books are still up, I mean Barnes Noble is still in business for a reason. So, I do think people still want the real.

I do too. Yeah. I do. And the people that are okay with that, we're always going to, they were going to be okay with the cell phone picture that was edited or whatever. Yeah, yeah. But, so AI is not scary, I guess is, you know, where we kind of started with this. But there are so many great things that we can use AI for that make our lives easier, specifically as small business owners.

Oh, yeah, for sure. 

I just, listen, I just did. So I put together this whole set. I think I talked to you about it weeks ago, where I put together this whole set that I designed using AI, which was super fun. But, um, I Okay. When I put the set together in the studio, it was for a magazine cover, I had hung ornaments, like, round ornaments from the ceiling, or not the ceiling, from like a stand from the bar.

Um, trying to kind of dangle in these ornaments. And I photographed it and it looked okay, but the placement wasn't exactly, like, quite right. And I was like, well, I guess I could copy this ornament and duplicate it. and move it around or whatever. I just, I was like, let me try this. So I just circled like the top little area where the ornaments were.

And I said, uh, you know, opulent, um, round Christmas ornaments in mixed metal colors. Right. And it created like different, based on the shapes that I had created, different size, balanced, you know, really Christmas ornaments like across the top of it. That's all I needed. I just, I had already, I had put those into my image originally and I would be going and looking for stock to try and drop some in if I needed to, but it was so much faster.

So like, that's a great way to kind of like something didn't work out exactly the way you wanted to do it. Um, you know, to be able to kind of get those in because it was a holiday cover and we were trying to make it look specific. So that worked out really nicely, but then Today, I was trying to, um, add drop shadows under feet for a composite image, you know?

And it just can't ignore feet, Mary. Oh my God, you can't, I can't get it to do it. I have gone to, uh, ChadGBT, I've tried to get some prompts, you know, created specifically for it. And like, it just keeps, don't mess with the feet. Don't make new feet. Don't give me weird feet. Don't give me toes. Just do drop shadows.

No. Under these feet. 

No. 

I've tried it a hundred different ways. Can't get it to work. 

Yeah. Definitely struggles. Yeah. There's something I was trying to get it to do the other day. I was working on a marketing piece and I needed something and I went in and I literally just found myself screaming at it. So I was like, okay, Mary, just go and do it yourself.

Do it the old way. It's so much faster to do it 

yourself than trying to figure out how to make. So, I mean, it's not, it's not quite there, but there are tools out there that are making our lives easier. Like. One that I found the other day, and I found it off of a gal's TikTok, she was, it's like, you know, little tips that you, you get on TikTok and on Reels.

And she said, if you go to Google Earth Studio, which is a free service, right, Google Earth Studio, and you put in a location, you can zoom in. Change your angle of incidence, like where you'll be standing, you know, and you can change the times of day and the date on it, and you're going to be able to see what that location looks like during any time of day.

So it's going to help you plan to make sure that you're at your location at the prime time of day. You know, because I can never remember, like at the state, I'm often having to photograph people at the old state capitol here in Florida. And it either is in direct sun or it is. You know, top, like completely lit up on the top, there's a very small window of time and I can't remember if it's in the morning or if it's night because I have no directional sense.

But every time somebody, now I'm just going to go to Google or studio and every time somebody wants to shoot on location somewhere, I'm just going to, I know exactly where we're going to go, especially if there's buildings involved, right? Like a big white building, like the state Capitol of Florida, I want to know when the sun is going to be most ideal.

And flat, you know, or in shade for the building, and that is great. Isn't that cool? That is really cool. To go and plan. 

Yeah, and I feel like I knew there was a thing called Google Earth, but I guess I didn't. 

Well, there's Google Earth, which is just how they've gone through, you know, and you can basically find anywhere in the world and look at it.

Right. Because they photographed everything. Correct. But this is the 

studio. Google, Google Earth Studio. That's right. That's what I'm, I didn't know about that. That's the piece I did not know about. That is really cool. I mean, especially if you're trying, like you said, you know, to plan the time of day or, or to make sure you're prepared for what you're going to get.

You know what I mean? If, say the timing isn't flexible, then you need to make sure that you're going to bring strobes to overpower the light, or you're going to bring a go, but you're going to, you know, Bring scrims, or whatever it is, or bring additional lighting, or whatever you need. Or, if you're a natural light, I don't know.

I don't know how natural light photographers work. I apologize. I don't know what you would plan for. Well, if you're 

a natural light and you're looking for open shade, you know, basically you have two times a day. Well, I 

look for open shade. That's all I look for. But I guess, yeah, you have to. So, but what if it, what if you don't, nevermind, we won't go down that rabbit hole.

That doesn't matter. Um, it'll help you. That's all that matters is it'll help you. That's, that's really cool. Um, yes, it'll help you. And 

it'll help you even learn, you know, maybe when the time of day, when the sun is at the right angle of incidence to be a natural, um, hairline or natural edge light or natural, you know what I mean?

Like that, I love it when I'm able to get that, you know, where I happen to be at the, at the place at the right time, where the sun's coming in, where, A strip box would be, if I had it, you know, that's always a really nice, um, time of day. So anyway, um, so Google Earth Studio, that's something that I think all of us could use when we have to go on location.

Absolutely. Wedding 

photographers, event photographers, portraits. I mean, all of us can use it. Um, absolutely agree. Um, you know, obviously we're all using, many of us are using chat. I assume you're using chat, but also, you know, if you're using different CRMs, there's AI integrations. I don't know about 17 hats, but I know, like, HoneyBook and Dipshot, that was a Diss Dissaba Sado?

Dissado? Diss Diss Diss Diss Diss Ddo ddo, I don't know, it doesn't feel right. They have major AI integrations. Um, they've been really, have they, I don't know about 17 hats, have they? I'm, 

I don't know about 17 hats. I, I, you know, I really am, I really do like so many things about 17 hats, but I'm in the Facebook group for 17 hats, kind of asking some of these questions and not getting.

Not getting any answers, but getting a lot of other like minded people going, yeah, that would be great. I would love to have 

Well, 

because it's out there. 

Those, I know Yeah. Honeybook, Studio Ninja, and DeSalvo are like leading the pack on that right now. I don't use any of those. I use Studio Clouded, so I don't, I don't know.

But I know that if you're doing that Bottom line is there's a major AI and then if anybody is using, I mean, obviously a photo is huge right now or you know, Imogen or Even in you know, Adobe Lightroom some of the AI technology. We're using it. We're using it for our editing and our retouching Um, 

you know, 

obviously I outsource most of mine um to retouch up but if i'm in a jam or I want to you know, just You know, like I, for example, I have a client, I photographed their wedding, they ordered 75 thank yous from the wedding, and I didn't, they want them right away, and I went in right in Diavoto, and I just ran that on their little Wedding Candid, so I could upload the cards today.

I didn't have time to upload it and wait on it. Um, so, you know, that's something. But majorly for the AI stuff for your, you know, either SEO or website optimization. I mean, there's so many out there for that. Are you using any of those? At all. Which ones? 

I'm 

sorry. Anything with SEO or website or like Yoast.

I mean, 

basically I'm using, I'm using ChatGPT to generate a lot of those tags and everything for me, you know, so that, so that has been helpful. I've been using, I have been using ChatGPT to, um, help with, uh, layout. And think, you know, like if I'm just trying to, I mean, everything from laying out like a graphics piece, because I'm having to do a lot of my own designs, you know, in Canva, um, to just, uh, set design, which I talked about before, but also yesterday I was on location at a, at a family's house, they really wanted me to photograph them in their new home.

With their big leather sofa in their new great room, you know, and we, and I was, I'll be honest with you, I was struggling because, uh, there wasn't a lot of anything, uh, unpacked and out yet, you know, so there wasn't a lot of stuff on the walls. I was dealing with like French doors in the background, whatever.

So I took a shot of the, of what I would be, what would be in frame with my iPhone. I uploaded it to chat GPT. And I said, I already had like one pose that I was, I was using so I had uploaded the layout of the pose that I had brought with me because I sometimes do a little bit of planning and, um, put that in there.

I said, okay, I'm already gonna be doing this pose. Help me with two more poses that I could do for this scene using this type of furniture and also let me know Ideas that I could add to the background to kind of enhance it to make it look more interesting and it gave me several layouts of like, you know, pictures that we could, we were able to pull a console table in, put it up against the wall, put some pictures on it and just sort of like balance out the scene.

I pulled, um, a house plant in because it had had one in the scene that it suggested. So I pulled a house plant in to sort of like make the scene look a little less like a big naked. Beige wall behind a leather couch, you know, and um, because of course they wanted their whole outfits too, you know, so it was like, I couldn't just like crop a lot of it out.

So anyway, I'm, I was using chat multiple times yesterday on location at a shoot to help Solve a couple of puzzles quickly, you know what I mean, because I was just there by myself, you know, and, um, and then we, I showed her what I was doing, you know, so she could, um, sign off on it, but we had this, um, she has this office that she's decorating, and she has those built in shelves that go all the way up, and she was telling me how she struggles to lay out Shelves and I'm not an expert and laying out like a few books over here and and you know Like a sconce thing over here and a bowl and whatever.

I'm not good at that But I love the way it looks so I took a picture of her bookcase and I said Give me give me some ideas of how to decorate this bookcase Right. And our bookcase like this. So it gives me a bookcase similar, like a built in similar to it. And it puts so much stuff in it. And I was like, okay, no, go more minimalist on this, right?

And so, and it tries again. And it just put in, like, neutral color coordinated, like, little vases and books and pictures and whatever. And it's illustrated. Because then I was like, here, and I just gave it to my client. I was like, here, here's some inspo for you. So that you can go and like, try and look for things like this at HomeGoods or whatever.

To decorate your thing. I've also 

built into my prompt, make sure that you put framed prints on those bookshelves. 

I was like, make sure there are framed prints on your shelves. Oh, believe me, I was helping her with a lot of stuff. She's redesigning their, I mean, everything is getting a makeover. And so we were shooting.

A picture that's going to go in their hang, hangout, you know, playroom, adult playroom kind of thing, you know, with their foot, where you can watch football games and they've got a bar in there and everything. And so I was sending her ideas from Pinterest. That all included artwork, like, right there.

Absolutely. And, um, and yeah. Oh, that's cool. So, it's funny how you get into, like, an almost, like, um, interior design realm. Yeah. Even though I don't have a background in it at all, but I have an eye. I can't do it for my own home, but I can do it for other people's. 

Oh, I think you, yes, you do. You have really cool, you have very, you have very cool collections.

It's very you, but you, I absolutely we do. I mean, that's part of my, well, that's part of my tagline is design, photograph, and brush oil paint, because a big part of what we do is the design part, specifically guys, for those of us as portrait artists, because we Again, I, I'm not, we're not the type of studio that you hire.

We're just going to take a bunch of pictures and then just hand them to you and say, have fun. It's, we're, we actually photograph with intention and I, I know that's how you do it. I know that's how, well, most of our friends and mentors do it. And that's why we do it the way we do it, right? Cause we, that's how we, you know, that's what's more attractive to me than just.

photographing a bunch of great images and just handing them over. Like, I want to know what, I'm nosy. I'm a, I'm nosy. I want to know what you're going to do with these. What are we doing with this? Like, um, to the point where I struggle, I struggle and Jamie's like, you got to get over this. But, and the older I get, the worse it's getting.

I'm really struggling right now that if I don't know what you're going to do with it, I'm really struggling to photograph it. Like, I would be very happy for us to sit down and go, okay, you want, One portrait of Lucy looking at the camera. This is where it's going. I go in and do that and I'm done. Like, that's it.

That's what you asked for. I'm good. Um, whereas, you know, our business model for so long has been, you know, we're adding, adding on those 20 poses, adding on a 3XM folio box, adding on an album, adding on whatever. I just, I just would rather photograph one amazing piece. 

Oh, that's 100 percent where I'm at.

Like, even yesterday, being in their home and photographing in their home, I was like, show me where we think we're going to put this. And she already had an idea of where we were going to put it, but then she showed me another room where she wanted some of the individual pictures of the kids. So it's like, okay, great.

I got it. Here's what we're going to shoot. I'm going to give you three options. That's why I wanted three pose options so she can choose from, you know, and then we finish one, you know, and then, um, and then individuals for the kids. And that's all I had to shoot. Yeah. Cause she's not gonna, I've been photographing her for years and she always buys wall art.

But she, you know. I love that she tells me what she wants, you know, but not everybody does. And if they don't, you're just kind of like, am I going to shoot like, yeah, it feels directionless, you know, I mean, it just feels like you don't have motivation, 

you know, and I know this is a drum that I just, I've been beating for way too long, but that's the part I don't understand about our industry and our profession is that, and I understand, you know, if we're doing events or, I mean, I photograph weddings, so I know what it's like to go out and pick a camera up and go out and photograph, you know, hundreds and hundreds of images.

Like I can do that. That's the purpose of the whole, you know, the whole, um, assignment, right? I get that. But a portrait session, like, why do I go and take a bunch of pretty pictures and I don't know where, what's going to happen with them? I, that, that's, I don't know. It just does not work in my brain. Like I really, like, I just don't know.

I obviously, I think I could do, I could do it, but I would really, I think I would struggle. I think I would, I have a feeling that if you said, Mary, okay. This is the assignment. I want one portrait to go above the mantel, and I want an individual of each child that's going to go between the windows. Versus, Mary, take this beautiful location, this beautiful family, and do whatever you want.

I think I would stand there like a moron and be like, I 

mean, I think that, I think that's totally valid. That is definitely the business model that I'm in these days. It makes me feel better. No, it's so valid. I loathe having to photograph and come up with So much variety for things that I don't know what, what they're going to do.

And I think I have been working towards just photographing for the design, right? Which is, it's part of the language that I send out in all of my introductory emails and workflows. And, you know, even for when I, when I get them to schedule the order session, you know, I mean, there's so much information about, about that, but, um, I think it's why my album sales are down, frankly, is because I'm not doing, like, so many things for family albums anymore because most of my clients these days are like, Oh, I think I just want, like, a few digitals, which is, of course, they're going to say that.

And then I go, well, you know, the digital, I, I'd sell the digital file alongside the wall art. Like when it, you know, on a, uh, because what, what am I going to do at that point? I've sold the wall art, you know, but, um, so that they can have, so they can have that. Yeah. , you know, but then I'll add on some digital files to that too, because they want to put it in the senior, you know, message or the Mm-Hmm.

A lot of the images I'm finding is like, oh, I've gotta put an ad in this, this, uh, the playbill for the play that she's in, or, right. You know, that kind of thing. And so we want it to be like a really nice photo of her, but they're already buying something else too. Yeah. So I guess I struggle if it's all, if it's like, well, I don't know what we just haven't, this is the, this is the doom sentence for me.

I know exactly what you're gonna say. We just, I don't know, we just haven't had our family photographed in so long. I just feel like it's time to do it. You know what I mean? And it's like, 

okay, what do you want? No, that is the, that is the kiss of death. And that's, I'm really lucky. Cause that's going to say, Jamie, we'll take great care of you.

Cause I think he's gone the other way. Like he's getting so creative and doing all this stuff and like, Jamie still finds joy in it. He still finds all the joy. I'm not saying I've lost the joy, but it's, it's hiding right now. The joy is a little harder to find. This time of 

year, I think the joy is harder to find when you're doing it.

It's such a volume. That you, you know what I mean, where you're just like, oh, it's Sunday and I have two shoots today. I mean, yesterday I was like, two, two shoots Sunday. Yeah, that's 

like, it's been a while, right? Like you don't normally work on the weekend. 

I don't normally, I don't normally, and they were fine, but they were also hard because they were with three year olds and hyper kids and you know, and Jamie's favorite thing in the world.

Well, and when they're in their own home. I mean, they're all, you know what I mean? Now you're on their 

turf, so you have no authority whatsoever. 

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I had to do Man, Sunday and on location? I went Sunday, one at the studio, and then immediately get in the car and go on location to the other one.

Both great, both great clients, you know? And you know what sucks, though? I felt so bad, um, because both, both of the moms yesterday were like this. I mean, I say, the kids weren't, Easy. Right. Because they're of an age. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's just, it is what it is. And there were circumstances for both of them.

Like, one of them is three years old. And that was at the studio. Mm hmm. And she's so sweet. But she has a limit. Just like every, you know, every little kid. Just like me. Yeah, I have a limit. Yeah, you get older and sometimes your limits get longer. But not for Like a three year old. Yeah. No. Three year old at one o'clock in the afternoon.

She's tired and hungry. Yeah. And, you know, it was, it was not the best. I think it was like 11. 30 was our session. But there was a stress scramble to get them dressed and get them there. Their hair was wet. Mom was stressed when she got there, you know, and so she was trying to get them finished up. And then the three year old we got great family photos at the beginning, but she just did not perform towards the end.

Like she just kept flopping around and hiding her face and doing the whole, you know what I mean? Like the old flop. I know it's the ragdoll flop, you know, like mom's trying to hold her and she's just like, you know, yeah. And. And it just went downhill very quickly, but I had already gotten pretty much everything I needed.

So it was fine. I got her and her sister together. I got the family photos. I do those first so we don't fall apart for the family photo. Um, but the mom afterwards texted me and was like, I'm so sorry. She's, you know, she is getting disciplined. She, she got a piece of candy at the end and she threw her wrapper at me.

But she wasn't, It wasn't like meh, it was just like playfully threw the wrapper at me and her mom was mortified. And I was like, Oh, it's okay, you know, whatever. And so then she left and she's texting me, she is, she is going to get disciplined for throwing the wrapper at you. And she, and I just, you know, I haven't been home enough.

I have been working too hard. I feel like I'm not, you know, I haven't been really leaning into my mom, you know, being a great mom. And I was like, Oh my God. Hey sis, calm down. Like, I was like, you're doing great. You're doing great. And she's. three. Did anyone die? No. And I said, I promise I got it. I promise I got it because I know I got it.

And everything else was just bonus at that point. But I was like, you're okay. You're amazing. I know. But we've been there, you know, where you feel like, especially when your child is doing something that embarrasses you in front of other people, you feel like it's a reflection on you. Let's be 

honest. 

You know, she's like, well, she's really a good kid normally, but I'm a bad mom who hasn't been around.

No, you're not. Oh, man. And so, and the same thing happened at the, at the family's house that I was at. You know, her, her son, he was just, he just got, he fell apart. You know, and it was like, okay, you know, sit up straight and he would like stand up and halfway sit like, you know, and I'd be like, and he was just like, he goes, what?

And we'd be like, all right, now smile like, you know, and he's like, this is my smile. And it was like a full straight face. He thinks he's being funny. 

Yeah. And he was 

not. And I literally, I think I sent you a picture that the mom sent me where I was. My hands were in prayer in front of him. I was like, hey, buddy.

Throw care around here. 

I was like, I am sweating profusely and I, you know, but at the end of that, and that's just the job, you know, at the end of that I was sitting with her and she's like, I made you a cheese board. You've got to have some cheese with, you know, so I was sitting with her in her kitchen talking and she's just like, Oh, I just feel like he's just such, I'm so sorry.

I just feel like I've been, you know, working so hard and he like, I just don't know how to get him. And I'm like, Oh my God. Because she's trying to, she's embarrassed that he didn't do, you know, he didn't perform his best in front of me, you know, because of his age and because he was at his home. 

No, and we get that and yeah, we, we understand that those of us who work with children, like, And I guess our moms get, my mom, the moms get the same way, but I feel bad because we just are used to it, like, that doesn't even phase me.

Like, I'm not, 

I'm not, I'm not like what rude kids you had. The only time I was ever like, what rude kids you have is when I literally got spit on by a kid once in my career, like 10 years ago. You know what I mean? But since then, I have dealt with it all, really, and none of that, none of it really fazes me.

You know, a three year old tossing a plastic wrapper at me, that's not, that's not a reflection of you, ma'am. Like, 

you 

know, she's three. 

That's funny. Well, you know, it's true. I mean, it is true. Unfortunately, guys, there is, we have no AI tips for you on how to take care of kids. Unruly children. There's just it is what it is.

They're gonna just be unruly but um Because that's the way it goes. But uh, I love that idea though. So Oh, this was a question. I was gonna ask you. I knew I wanted to ask you something So when you were at that family's house and you used chat and you said okay give me but so you knew the location. So you took a picture on your phone of the location and you said, okay, I have two small children or I have a family of four.

I 

have a family of four with two kids this age. Okay. You put in the 

ages. That makes sense. 

And I also, I had a picture that I had already created from another, from another conversation with Chad about this, this session, like when I was wardrobe, when I was wardrobe planning for them. 

Okay. 

And so we had the wardrobe planning inspiration photo.

I was like, so here's. Here is the scene we're shooting in. Here is the wardrobe inspiration, which had the correct number of people in it. Right. Give me two more poses for this family in a scene like this, because it's not going to replicate the scene exactly, you know, but it's going to give you at least the elements of the scene that matter, you know.

Yeah, that makes sense. 

Um, So, yeah, so, and it was, it was extremely helpful to kind of create, and then I, you know, then I could modify it based on the real life people because, you know, it's not, you can't do it exactly, but it was, it helped me get. When you're by yourself and you are working with kids who are not cooperating and you're lighting the scene and you're decorating now for them, you know, to get to get the scene correct in your mind.

Right. And you're doing your test shots and you're doing everything. And then to add the element of let me get three dynamic poses. out of this family in a very short amount of time because this kid is falling apart faster and faster by the second. It is nice to have this tool. I was like, I'm not going to be able, he's not cooperating.

I'm going to have to just place him in these spots and be ready to go. 

Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of people, I mean, you know, I know you hear it as well as we meet other photographers and talk to, you know, our You know, colleagues across the country or whatever, that is something that people definitely struggle with is they say, Oh, how do I love posing like that's something I'm, it comes very naturally, but sometimes you get in a jam where like, it's not an ideal space, not an ideal family, meaning the kids fell down, whatever, to have that resource, or if you are not as secure in your posing, then having that resource in your literal pocket that you can just pull out and within seconds, You're not, you know, they're not going to see you like opening, you know, opening something or opening up your laptop.

And, you know, it's very, they would not even know you're doing it, quite frankly, to be able to do that for those of you out there that are like, like I said, struggle with posing. It's not your forte. Um. Yeah. Gosh, what an amazing resource, right? Well, I mean, you could get to your, 

if you're shooting on location, you can get to your location a little bit early, right?

And photograph the scene, upload that into a chat conversation. Or take a screenshot of Google Earth, Google Earth Studio. Or take a, take your Google Earth Studio screen, you know, screenshot, upload that to chat. Be like, I'm going to be at this location at this time of day. You know, this is what it's going to look like.

Here's my inspiration photo that I did for my, you know, consult for my family. Yep. Okay. Um, these are, you know, this, help me pose a family like this in this scene, and it will give you some, and it's just meant to be inspiration, nothing is going to be exact, and you're going to be like, well, this is a, I'm working with an African American family, and they give me a white family, who cares?

Yeah, that's not, yeah. It's neither here nor there, you know, and the outfit isn't exactly the same. We're just looking for quick starting points. You know what I mean? And especially if you're the, and it's, it's okay if you are, because everybody starts somewhere. But if you're in your early years of family posing and you're going on location and you're doing the family in a line with their arms around each other thing, which doesn't, it isn't always bad.

Right. But it is hard, right? Right. Like, it is, it's hard to get variety when you have no props outside with you, no posing stools or blocks or anything like that out there. And you're just in a field. Yeah. With a family of four. Well, how do we make that look different? Correct. 

No, and you can just on the fly say, yeah.

I mean, and I guess, let me ask you this because you're definitely way, you're way farther down the chat GPT chain than I am. So, as you build, when you're building out your custom GPTs and everything in chat, I'm assuming you have one for your portrait studio. Because it's a bit different than your headshots, right?

Like, that's a bit different. So I know how to build it out from a marketing perspective, right? I've built mine out. It's pretty, it's pretty hardy on the marketing piece, but I've not ever used it for the actual photography piece. I've not really ever thought about that. So when you're building that out, are you putting, is it, is there a way that it understands your style and, Like, are you, how are you, is there a way to build that part out yet?

Yes, there are ways to build it quickly and not as efficient, I mean, not as accurately. And then there is ways to make it a little more accurate, but either way you're going to have to, you're going to have to give it some wiggle room, right? Right. So you could do what I just said, which is to, in the conversation, even if you don't have a custom GPT, like just go into chat, be like, here is an example of one of my images in my studio that I'm going to shoot.

So this is like, not the family I'm photographing, but here's what I've done in the exact same way before. Right. And so that's my style. Help me come up with poses in this style. Right? In this scene. So that's one way to do it. Another way to do it would be to create a custom GPT and give it example images from your different, maybe, I know you have your outdoor looks, you have your in studio looks, whatever.

Give it those as part of its library of knowledge. 

Okay, so that's what I'm asking. You could actually create a library of images. I've not done that 

PDF. You could create a PDF that has a library of images in it. Okay. And it'd be like, this is, the style is called, Outdoor garden or whatever garden sessions or whatever and you could have it do that now it's not going to copy it but it's going to keep that in mind when it makes suggestions for you like, you know, but it's also you want it to be it where it's not quite to the place where we can say it's always going to give you the same kind of light the same kind of whatever but you can say to it.

I always light from the left. I've always got a hair light over here. And you can give it a lighting diagram if you wanted to. I mean, basically it's a computer that can look at images okay, and generate from it. So you can say, here's a lighting diagram of my studio. Here's how my lighting setup is every single time for this kind of set.

Right? So every image that you give me for suggestions on, you know, posing or outfit ideas or whatever, it needs to be lit. Like this lighting diagram, you can give it, you can give it as part of its, um, 

knowledge base. That's crazy. Guys, everybody do this. Like, this is great. And so many people struggle with the, the posing.

That is something I hear so many people tell me that it's a major, they get the lighting, they understand the lighting, but they really struggle with, that's why a lot of people stick with just single subject is because they struggle with posing. Um, and what a great way to start practicing or, you know, putting, help building your repertoire or building, you know, your confidence.

to um, posing. 

You could build yourself a little lookbook for yourself. 

Yeah. Yeah. We used to do that early on. Just 

have that, just have that ready. Or if you're trying to train an associate photographer too, you know, you can have, you could have a little digital lookbook ready for their phone, you know, like in an album.

And it's like, okay, when you're in the sessions, these are the poses you're going to try to hit, 

you 

know, with these. And, you know, I know that there are photographers out there that sell lookbooks, and I, back in the day, I bought those, and I would have that, like, kind of all my, especially for me, it was boudoir posing.

I remember having a boudoir posing lookbook because I would run out of ideas, you know? And, um, I, uh, used it 

graciously. That is so, so cool. Awesome. Yeah. All right, guys, it's so custom. There you go there. I mean, that's your tip. That's great. So google earth studio And use chat to help you pose your families.

Try it. Try it. Let us know posing 

planning You know, I mean the longer you give yourself to do for planning ahead of the session the I think the more happy you'll be with the results it gives you because you can spend more time on it Um, but in a jam You get out to that session, and you can't get it, and you're like, I'm stuck.

There you go. Take 

a little bathroom break. Right in your pocket. Right in your pocket. I love it. I love it. All right. Well, you want to wrap it up? Yeah. Let's wrap it up 

today. You guys can follow us on Instagram at GetYourShoeTogether. You can follow us on Facebook at GetYourShoeTogether. You can email us at girl at GetYourShoeTogether.

com. And subscribe to us everywhere where podcasts are played. We will see you guys next 

time. Thanks, y'all.