Episode 194 - Rabbit Holes & Real Work

Feeling overwhelmed by digital marketing, AI, and all the shiny new tools out there? You’re not alone. In this episode, Kira and Mary dive deep into how photographers can balance learning new tech (hello, ChatGPT and digital ads!) while still running a profitable studio. From grand opening gigs that fund handbag splurges to hiring a marketing assistant and rethinking your Instagram strategy, they’re keeping it real about what’s working—and what’s not. Join us for a convo full of tips, laughs, and the occasional Aperol-fueled shopping story.

🎧 Listen now and get inspired to pivot, prioritize, and profit!

This episode was written and performed by Mary Fisk-Taylor and Kira Derryberry, produced by Kira Derryberry and edited by Joel North.

Transcript

GYST Episode 194

[00:00:00] 

Kira: Welcome to Get Your Shoot Together, the photographers podcast where we discuss studio, business life, and keeping it all in line. I'm Kara Berry. And 

Mary: I'm Mary Fis Taylor. Yeah, 

Kira: you are. Hi.

Mary: Yeah, I am. Hi friends. Hi. Sorry guys. We came back and we were so excited and then we forgot we had planned a vacation, so we had to take a break again. And, uh, we're just our, we're unreliable. I think that's what you should retake. The, here's, 

Kira: here's what you need to take. We feel like it, you can't count on us.

Mary: That's 

Kira: That's just the bottom line. 

Mary: So, yeah. Sorry guys. It's been a, it's been a run man. It's been a run. I think that, um, we hit a lot of, uh, I had a lot of people, a lot of feedback from the last podcast talking about appreciating the fact that, you know, keeping it real. Um, that we all were feeling kind of glum and struggling and, uh, yeah.

Mary: Um, quite frankly, um, still are. Still are. Um, but we're vacationing as if we, um, aren't, I think 'cause uh, we vacation to run 

Kira: away from our problems. Let's do this. Yes. Let's, let's, so healthy. No, I mean, honestly, we had a 

Mary: wedding that we went 

Kira: to. We did, that was planned for a long time. We had a big wedding in 

Mary: Spain that we've been planning for two years.

Mary: And our great friend, [00:01:00] Ronan, you guys know, three x and Folio, one of our favorite vendors. Friend, um, you know, Jamie and I photographed the wedding, Kira and Lucy, and, um. Uh, Kevin were there and it was just beautiful. And then Kira and I also, almost two years ago planned, um, my one, one of my best friends retired and two of her best friends all retired.

Mary: So we did a big, um, a multi coast trip. And that was sheer magic is what that was. 

Kira: Honestly, I mean, I, I admittedly I was. I mean, I've, I've shared this with you, but I'll, okay. So Mary invited me on this trip. Well, they all invited me on this trip to go with 'em. Yes. And I knew I had met two, you know Terry.

Kira: Two. I knew Terry and I knew, and I met Chris. And, um, but I didn't know, um Nicole, Nicole and Stephanie. And, um, and so, you know, I was, I was, I was admittedly a little nervous because they're a tight group and they've been friends for a long time. And I have several very tight groups of girlfriends too. And, you know, um, it's, it's always difficult when you bring like an outsider in.

Kira: So I was, I was a little. Nervous about it, but I'm telling you, like I couldn't have asked for a better group of women to go on that trip with. Uh, they were one, you know, as if I had [00:02:00] been with them all along. Yeah. Um, yeah. Um, everybody was so great and very low maintenance. Um, I mean, just easy, breezy, beautiful like the whole time.

Kira: Yeah. I mean, that's how you wanna be in Italy, you know, like, ah, absolutely. You don't really wanna have any problem. You know? Yeah. Now, now I did have some problems which we could go into if we 

Mary: wanted. Well, we all had prob. The funny thing is, is all of us are like, it was the best trip ever. Keira had like a stomach flu situation.

Mary: I got a cold. Then Keira caught the cold. Like we actually had things that didn't, we had a really bad rainy day, like Kira and I missed a whole day of vacation because we were both so sick. But it's still illnesses. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. No, no. Like it was just magical. But I know these people, I didn't know Nicole very well at all.

Mary: I've only met her like once or twice, but I just, I know my people and I knew that you would get along, you know, like a house on fire. Like, you can take me anywhere. Let's be, you really can. You really can. Yeah. Not, not me. I mean, if anybody, I'm the most dramatic of the whole group. For sure what I mean, I'm the, I'm the one that doesn't play well with others.

Mary: It's [00:03:00] gonna be me. So if you can get along with me, I know you can get along with me. Look, 

Kira: you enjoy luxury and you don't hide it, 

Mary: that's okay. I do love a luxury. I do love a luxury. I do. I do. And, and by association I do. Yeah, I know. I'm afraid. I was like, ooh. I literally, we were, we were shopping in Capri one day and I just walked outta the store.

Mary: I was, I just, I walked, we walked into one store and I just walked out because I do not want to be the cause of a dairy berry divorce. Like, I just, like, I'm never gonna be the friend that tells you, don't, don't buy it. It's not a good idea. I'm never gonna be that person. 

Kira: Well, I, I thought maybe the rest of them would be that, 

Mary: that friend 

Kira: and it turns out, no.

Kira: That's why they're my friends. We were all like, we were all drunk on Apple spritz shopping in like luxury, in like designer stores. So we go in this and we are just making every. Every for, for all of us, all of us were buying something, but like we were making every girl mass justification, uh, of, of why we deserve this and why this is practical.

Kira: And, you know, uh, we would be, I mean, we would be stupid. Not, I mean, they're basically get paying us. To get these Louis Vuitton. Right. Pretty much. I mean, that was, yeah, because 

Mary: you say the [00:04:00] VAT tax alone, it was like, we made money. And my husband's like, you know, it doesn't work like that. Like literally that's not how it works.

Mary: I'm like, Hey, all I know is I got this much money back, so yeah, I got this 

Kira: much money back. And I don't know if you know, but I broke my foot this year, so I, I have used, I have milked that just to the bone. Mm-hmm. On, on, on all of my, um, treats 

Mary: for myself. I like it. I like it. And one of my favorite lines of the whole thing is my friend Chris is married her, her wife Stephanie.

Mary: I had announced to them that very exciting news. My son is getting married next year, and my husband and I are are gonna, uh, we're we're doing the wedding here in Virginia and Stephanie. I picked up something I really, really wanted, actually two items of one store I really, really wanted. And she goes, let's just knock that w budget back a little bit and then you can choose buy it.

Mary: And I'm like, that is so sensible. And I can wear it to the, we, I could carry it to the wedding. I mean, basically it's part of the wedding budget when you look at it. That one. It's uh, that also didn't fly with my husband, but it was a great trip. Sorry guys. Um, we're still married, Kira and I have decided that we're gonna, we're gonna podcast when we can and, uh, [00:05:00] we love it.

Mary: And we, um. We love talking about things, but um, yeah, it's actually been, um, kind of crazy. I think all of us have been a little bit caught up in stuff. And then, um, I think I'm in a major learning curve situation right now. Just trying to understand how I want to leverage. You know, uh, all of the, the digital marketing options.

Mary: Mm-hmm. And I know you're, you know, really leveraging chat and, but how do we do that? And it'll keep it organized and not go too down that far, down that rabbit hole where we're not, you know, I could find myself sitting up do, just going down those rabbit holes and then I've really accomplished nothing so.

Mary: Because you're, you've been doing it a little bit longer. You certainly are more, um, you know more about it than I am. Do you feel like that's an issue that we need to be thinking about? And this just occurred to me because I did this the other night. Oh. 

Kira: I literally talked to my therapist about this this morning.

Kira: Like we the before. Really? Yes. Yes. We did not plan this, by the way. I just, just came up my head. Oh. It's just funny that you brought I have, I have, I have in front of me a notebook of, of, of prioritizing, uh, certain, certain things. And the problem is. Here goes the problem. Here goes, okay, I, right now I'm in an era and I, you are too of life where it's exciting and I'm like a sponge again.

Kira: And I'm learning. And [00:06:00] learning and learning. Yeah. And it's like e everything is new and shiny. This is right up your alley too. Yes, this is, and I alley and I have been in such a rut. And I've complained about it for long enough of the, of just like, I just feel like I've plateaued or, you know what I mean, like, you know.

Kira: So I am in this, this full on tunnel vision of, um, uh, subject matter assessment with, with AI and, and chat GPT and I am loving it. The problem with that is that it is a very, like it's a vacuum. Like you're gonna go down yes. A long rabbit hole, and you are gonna think you're onto something and then something shiny is gonna pop.

Kira: Like the next day they're gonna come up with something new. I mean, that keeps happening to me over and over and over again. And then you, and you go down that rabbit hole and you learn that thing. And so what, you remember that part about having a business, like currently having a business, um, that makes money and that actually has been profitable for years.

Kira: And, and if you, if you put all of your energy at it would still, you know, produce money that still produces money. Yeah, that's the problem, is that it is so much more exciting than my actual work. That I am, you know, suffering because I am not [00:07:00] focusing on my actual work. And this is the time of year where it's very difficult to, to.

Kira: Not focus on that work, you know, not book those things. It is, it is. So I find myself, um, having to pull back on that research mode that, like, that, that excitement and, and really, really hunkered down and focus on the things that I've got to get done now. So I have made a list. I've also, Mary, taken on a few things, um, that I wouldn't have.

Kira: Because for the, for the sake of, this is a fast and easy thing that I can do. Okay. Um, I'm not diversifying what I offer, but it, they've come to me in like various referral routes, you know, and I'm just like, mm-hmm. There's no reason why I couldn't work that Saturday and do that quick event. You know what I mean?

Kira: Like, it's like, okay, it's like two hours. I could do it. You know what I mean? And I, and yeah, so, so I've taken on a few things to sort of supplement that are fast, quick, and easy money. Right. Um, to supplement myself so that I can get back to my exciting learning tunnel. Does that make sense? 

Mary: But not feeling like that you're not lowering your prices, you're not 

Kira: diminishing.

Kira: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not at all. In fact, I literally said, okay, so I got this, um, I got this inquiry for, uh, a grand opening event for something. Okay? And, and, you know, for [00:08:00] having the commercial side of the way, it's not un unheard of for me to get that. But what I often do is sometimes I contract somebody else.

Kira: Yeah. To go do that kind of stuff. Yeah. And, um, and I, I don't worry about it 'cause I don't, I don't truly enjoy doing it. It's not that I can't, I just don't, I'd rather do something else. Right. And so, uh, I got that and I don't really have my like, connections right now with who I would, uh, call. Um, although I know there might be listening and they'd be like, you could call me, but I need the money.

Kira: So, so I was like, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna quote like $2,000. For this grand opening event, you know, that's like a ribbon cutting and like, you know, whatever. Yep. And then, um, shoot, if they, if they say yes to that, I'll go, I'll show up in a ball game. Yeah. Like, whatever, you know. And, um, I, so I sent them the quote and they accepted it immediately and paid the bill, like automatically paid the bill.

Kira: I mean, it's already prepaid, so I'm taking on a few things. No brainer. Taking a few. Yeah. You know, and, um, the other kind of, this is on my desk in technical news, Mary, on my desk I have a, a brand new baby. Here, which is Oh, you do? Yes. Which is the, uh, the, i I got the Go docs, um, V 100. Yes, you did. Um, because I haven't used a speed light on top of my camera, uh, for a bounce [00:09:00] flash or anything in so long for just like walk around.

Kira: I, I have them, but they're so old they don't have TT L and I'm just like, you know. I just booked this job that I really didn't think they would say. Yes, I could certainly throw $300 at this light and then have, and then just make my life easier, my job easier, so I got a new toy. You do and, and I'm making some money.

Kira: And um, that was a long way around that story, 

Mary: so No, but I think it's right. It's, I've done that before too. We've done a couple grand openings and I'm like, I'm gonna put out there this, this is the raid and if they go for it, I'll do it. And, and yeah, the good thing that is down the road, you know, when things change, 'cause I do think things will change and go back to whatever the new normal is, but then I can always, you know, contract it out if I don't wanna do it down the road.

Mary: But right now it's worth it for me not to pay someone. $500 to go out and photograph it, keep the money, pay myself. Um, I would do the same thing. Yeah. I mean, I absolutely would do the same thing and I would in a heartbeat. No. No brainer. No brainer. Exactly. 

Kira: And, and so, you know, part of me was like, oh, I said I would never do, I, you know, I, I have people for this.

Kira: I, I do 

Mary: never say never, 

Kira: but, you know, two grand. Yeah. Never seen for that Louis Vuitton bag that I 

Mary: bought in, or Emily. [00:10:00] Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, we all kind of, yeah. Chris and Stephanie were the only ones marked safe because they're, they were together. They brought, she brought, they brought their spouse, but none of us brought our spouse.

Mary: Oh yeah. I was gonna say, they all came home. We all came home and like, you know, um, we just texted each other that we were marked safe. Our marriages weren't safe once he told us. Yeah. 

Kira: I literally, in the group text, I was like, it's like three days after we got home, I was like, 

Mary: so told, 

Kira: I told Kevin about the backpack.

Kira: And still 

Mary: married. Still married. My friend Terry, though, her husband has her credit cards on alert. So every time she swipes it, he gets a text message. And so we were kind of giggling 'cause we were like, oh, Sean's getting a text message. Sean's getting a text message. Um, but uh, we were like, Sean 

Kira: won't care.

Kira: It's your retirement gift. What are you supposed to do? Yeah. 

Mary: Not treat yourself. Yeah, I mean, you took care of those rascally kids for 30 years. I mean, you deserve this. So we're good at that. If you ever need somebody to tell you what you deserve, ki and I are 

Kira: your girls, oh my God, God, we are gonna, you deserve so much and you're not getting it.

Kira: And so who, if you, if no one's giving it to you, who's gonna give it to you yourself? Get it. Treat yourself. That's right. 

Mary: Treat that's right yourself. I like it. I like it. So, you know, this balance, I think it's very interesting because I'm not in it like you, but even like. Um, a while back I was trying really hard to make my website perfect, which is never gonna [00:11:00] happen.

Mary: By the way, guys, and I know this in my head, like I'm smart enough to know this, however. You know, still have to go down that rabbit hole. So I'm using SEMrush and I'm using, you know, all these things, running, all these analytics, and I'm changing and I'm getting an error message and I'm changing. And I did, I mean, I like increased my score like crazy, but I spent a.

Mary: So many hours. And at the end of it I'm like, I guess it felt good to accomplish something and maybe I find myself doing more stuff like that because we're not as busy as I'd like to be. And um, I feel like some of my marketing isn't working as successfully as I'd like it to, or it's not producing immediately.

Mary: I do think, you know, marketing is marketing. It'll eventually produce, but maybe it's not hitting as fast as I want it to. So I find myself doing those kind of things. Mm-hmm. Because. It's immediate satisfaction. It's immediate satisfaction. If I long into December, I should put in my website and I go from a 78 to an 82, and then I get it to an 88, and then I get it to a 90, or I get no errors in the top.

Mary: You know that. I guess my brain work, my, I work that way, and if I don't. If I can't level up or [00:12:00] see success, I have to find it somewhere else. If not, I'll go down a really bad hole. Like I'll go, yes. You know that? Yes. I mean, depression will just take its toll. 

Kira: We have to, we're badge getters, right? Yeah. Like we we're merit badge getters, right?

Kira: Like we've gotta see the direct and we've gotta see a very fast direct result of, of, of that effort. You know, and that's what's hard about learning a new thing, is you, you can't just learn it in a day. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, and, and even when you like the website, like you're talking about, I've been doing a similar thing with my website and I have just, I have had to categorize each optimization as its own project and just know that I might only get number one part done, and that might be two months before I can come back and do the second part.

Kira: I mean, that's just, it just is, you know? Yeah. Because, because there's just one of me now I'm, I am working. And it's going fairly well on getting chat GBT to be able to do a lot of this legwork for me. Yeah. Um, through, you know, through some of the automations that are, that exist with it. Um, but it's still not perfect and it's still not, I still gotta watch it the whole time too.

Kira: So, you know, um, I think we just, I know we talk a lot [00:13:00] about giving ourselves grace. These kinds of large scale optimizations, like what we're talking about here with websites. It's not just, it's not just tagging your images, it's not just, you know, changing some of the language on your website. I mean, it's, it can be in nine different areas that need to be tackled, you know, and they're, yeah, they time suck, so, so yeah, breaking it up.

Kira: Into individual projects makes me feel accomplished once I get the one, the number one done right. And then try not to feel too bad, like by coming back later 

Mary: and going, okay, well now I'll get to this. No, and I need, I don't, I'm not good at that. 'cause I will sit here and the next thing I know it's 5:00 AM and I'm like, holy movie.

Mary: Oh, I, what have I done? I'm so guilty of that. Yeah. I, I, you know, and I've, I found myself doing that more and more and I said, oh, I've got, I've got to stop doing this. This is not okay. This is not healthy and I'm really not accomplishing anything because anybody who's tried to like work on their own website, I mean you can do, I could work on it for 24 hours straight and let it sit for two days and you know, it's just a constant, it's a constant thing.

Mary: Regardless of everything I fixed in two days, something's gonna changed and I'll need to go in and I'm gonna have an error. And for some reason I take it very personally, like I really get angry. You shouldn't at it. You shouldn't because I so angry. I know. Do get angry. I know you do. Because the effort.

Mary: The effort. [00:14:00] I mean, I wanna fight, like when it comes up, I'm like, you want, do you wanna go? We're gonna throw hands over this. Like yesterday you told 

Kira: me I needed to do this, I did that thing. Yeah. Now you're telling me a new thing came out and I have to do it differently. Exactly. 

Mary: Why con nerve? The nerve this is, is exactly, 

Kira: this is why I, you know, I'm a smart lady who's very technically inclined, but I absolutely 100% will not try and learn.

Kira: Instagram and TikTok reels like my, or TikTok and reels on Instagram. I'm try, I try it, I give it a, an effort, I wouldn't say a maximum effort, but I give it an effort and then it changes. And then how people see my images changes on Instagram. And I just, you know, one day I just said they're, they're moving the goalpost too much that 

Mary: I give.

Mary: Not. Yeah, I agree. And it's constant. And actually, so I did make a big, bold move and I have hired a digital marketing, um, assistant. Okay. Sorry, my dogs are balking for anybody, but now we can't hear that. Okay, go. So, um, yes, I've hired somebody and, um, he's outta Canada and, um, we're working together and I said, all right, I'm gonna give this 90 days.

Mary: And I put, set aside the [00:15:00] money and it was a lot for me to do because right now spending money on additional resources like that is scary to me because it's just, again, we've probably had one of the worst years. We've ever had. Um, in business, just it's, yeah. Metrics, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Not money wise, but it's 2025, not, you know, 1998.

Mary: So it's like, you know, so it's just different. And, um, it was really scary, but I just thought if I don't do that, I'm gonna. I'm gonna be useless because I'm making myself crazy. 

Kira: So has my, I'm I'm wondering about the, because I'm a hundred percent on board with outsourcing, that kind of thing. Yeah. It's hard right now because like you said, the, the extra income is that we've always had, isn't there and isn't such a no-brainer decision.

Kira: Right. But you, it won't get done if you leave it to yourself because you're not, you're not gonna be able to become an expert in that. Right. Right. So, um, did the person you hired, did they give you like. An expectation or you know, like an expectation of when you're gonna see results? 

Mary: Yes. So the good news is, is we had a lot of con, I interviewed probably 10 [00:16:00] people.

Mary: Mm-hmm. And IS. I specifically went with this person because he has, does digital marketing for luxury products, not photographers. Okay. Yeah. So I didn't, everybody that I talked to that had worked with photographers, the price point just wasn't right for me, and I've had this issue before. Mm-hmm. They're marketing to a, they're not marketing to the right.

Mary: So I went specifically with somebody who was working with luxury products. So that was number one. I wanted to work with somebody who was in the same time zone or close to the same time zone as me. Um, and uh, so we set metrics and from the first call, I just, I knew he was gonna be the right person just because where he's doing all my Google ads and, um, my Facebook, Instagram.

Mary: Nice. Okay. So those are the two, those are the two analytics and, and we are running analytics on both and we check in every week now. We just started, um, actually I was sending him everything while we were in Italy. I was sending him all the information. So ads are just starting this week, so, okay, we'll meet and we'll mon he monitors it, sends me a weekly report and we meet, you know, online.

Mary: I have a quick call, um, every week if I need it. I haven't had one this week yet, but like we chatted last week, so I've given it 90 days. Now, that doesn't mean that in 90 days I expect my phone to be ringing off the hood or hook or my [00:17:00] inbox to be full, but I do expect to see the needle moving. If I see the needle moving, then we'll continue, and if not, then I'm gonna, I'm not gonna say I'm gonna give up on digital marketing for a while, but I'm gonna give up on it for a little while because maybe it's not the right.

Mary: I kind of came to this conclusion a couple years ago, maybe digital marketing wasn't right for me, for my business, right. For a while. Right. But I feel like if it's, I was talking to Alex and my daughter, guys, she just turned 30, so she's my perfect client. You know, she's a professional. She's, you know, got all the money, they, you know, doing all the things so.

Mary: Like my niece, they just had a baby. He's an engineer, she's a physical therapist. They're my perfect client. And both of them were like, well, I said, what do you guys, what, what hits you? Like when you're looking online? Like what type of ads hit? And she's like, if it's one of those banner ads or something in the right hand side, I'm not paying attention because it's normally junk.

Mary: Just like the Scholastic book Fair. That's junk. And that's, it's a joke we'll have to tell y'all later, but it's just junk. So, um. I said, she said, but you know, what I do stop at is the way that like anthro does their ads or the way, um, you know, Tiffany's does their ads or, you know, and it's usually those, um, slideshows.

Mary: So like it's in one image and then the, you know, you scroll images at the bottom and I'm like. I stop at those [00:18:00] two. I don't pay attention to when a free this or sweeps. I don't pay attention to that 'cause I assume it's a gimmick too. Good to be true. Other people have run that into the ground. But I will stop at a nice anthro ad and, and or sacks and, and scroll through and look at the shoes or the outfits or whatever.

Kira: So 

Mary: that's the marketing approach I'm taking. 

Kira: When, um, so I've been, uh, you know, 'cause, you know, for fun I just like to look at like formal event wear. That's part, that's part what I do. It's part this time of year. Yeah. Um, and so I, you know, I, um, I'm getting served a lot of those ads on Facebook. Yeah. For like luxury brand, formal event wear, that sort of thing.

Kira: And a brand that I haven't thought about in a really long time. Um, came up Donna, Karen. Oh wow. Right? Yeah. DKNY. Yeah, little DKNY. But it was, it's Donna Karen. It's not the DKNY brand. It's the Donna Carrin. Oh, it's her high-end brand. It's her Highend. Oshana, right? Yes. And, um, um, so anyway, but it's a, it's a slight, it's a carousel ad where it's got like three or four, you know, dresses that you can kind of see.

Kira: And the first comment that shows up and it's gotta be, you know, they've seeded or something, you know what I mean? But it says, the commenter says. This is the most gorgeous complete collection I have seen in a really [00:19:00] long time. And for some reason, when I saw that, I stopped, I spread the comment because it's shows up with the carousel, right?

Kira: Yeah. And like, so the carousel, so I'm like, are you writing it down? I'm like, yes. I'm back. Taken a note. Yeah. I saw it. And it's, it's, it's a gorgeous dress. The dresses are gorgeous, but there's a lot of gorgeous dresses. Right. And, but like right. It was gorgeous and then reinforced by, I was influenced by the comment from some stranger that just said, this is seriously, hands down, the most gorgeous collection I have ever seen you guys put out, or something like that, you know?

Kira: And I was like, oh, I am very obviously influenced by influencers at this point. I didn't think I was, I didn't think I, I am 

Mary: too. 

Kira: Yeah, you, you know. But this is not an influencer. This is just a comment. And the comments spoke so highly of the dress. I was looking, the two dresses I was looking at on the carousel right then.

Kira: That I clicked, right? And I was like, oh, it is curly pretty. You know what I mean? See, like that is really nice 

Mary: because you got social proof there because that's the testimonial that someone has just given them. 

Kira: Mm-hmm. 

Mary: Oh, but it 

Kira: wasn't tacked onto the graphic. It wasn't like, no, it was [00:20:00] so organic and obviously well thought out, but it was so organic to have that comment right there as, and it shows up right at the top.

Kira: You know? Yeah. And I've sensing the ad again, and it still does. So I am like, you know, it's like I'm not clicking on the comments. It's just when you scroll, that's the sentence. It's 

Mary: just right there. 

Kira: And so I'm like, oh, that's genius. See, that's how you do it. That's, that's subtle. That's get into your brain.

Kira: I don't know why. I don't know why it works, but it is. It works on me. Yeah. Maybe it's 'cause we've been conditioned, 

Mary: you know what I mean? Maybe. Maybe, but I think that the key there is the, you, you hit it with organic. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, think about it. Like that's what, that's what our, that's what, you know, that generation wants.

Mary: It has to be real. They, and it's just an image. All the fake. Yeah. 

Kira: There's no, so like, I think photographers what we, the first thing we do is we put an image up and we put a bunch of text all over, right? We're like, here's this and here's this mini session and here's all the things. And you've got this like graphic and you're like, this is gonna be like, this is gonna catch people's eye, but it doesn't because it looks like an ad.

Kira: Right? Yep. Like, you know, and so when you're scrolling, I think we need to go back to being image heavy. I think we need to go back to just being like impact, impact, impact, and then [00:21:00] work hard on that organic placement of. You know, like, like that, you know what I mean? Because that's what, and I, I never do scroll, um, carousel ads, 

Mary: you 

Kira: know what I mean?

Kira: I do all the 

Mary: time. That's like one of my favorite things to look at clearly. It stop me in a heartbeat. Stop me in clearly. 

Kira: Clearly it works because you can stop scrolling and you can go to the side and it somehow to breaks the cycle of the motion of scrolling. 

Mary: It does. Right. Well, that's so good. I'm glad that we're talking about this because it's, it's confirming a lot of things A, that I'm not the only one going down rabbit holes and trying to avoid real work.

Mary: Mm-hmm. BA hundred percent. That, that, that, that does work. So that's what Allie and I are working towards. Him and I, that's my goal mm-hmm. Is to set up some really posh type of ads like that, that make people go, wow, that's, you know, and maybe it's one image, and then the, the slideshow scrolling part is.

Mary: Installations or whatever. Yeah. But very little text. Very little text. And then, and then very thoughtfully plant, and I'm putting that in air quotes, plant really good commentary from [00:22:00] essentially, you know. 

Kira: Your clients. I have plenty of clients that would 

Mary: do it for me. Well, like I just had a bride's mom, she goes, what can I do for you guys?

Mary: We're so over the moon in love with this. What can we do? And, um, anyway, so I think that really does work. So, I 

Kira: mean, it clearly does, it works on me. I mean, now, have I bought the dress yet? No, but I'm not ready to buy a dress. What I'm doing is my research for dresses. Yes. And now is this on the top of my list?

Kira: A hundred percent, right? Yeah. I'm like, oh, I haven't looked at this. Brand and so long, you know, going to the same brands you always go to, 

Mary: you know? Yeah. And, um, MacDougal or, 

Kira: yeah, MacDougal. Um, Thea, uh, what is the other one that I like so much? Kate Unger. I like 

Mary: Amol. Oh, Kate Unger. And I like Amol a lot.

Mary: Mm-hmm. I gotta find that. MOG dress. The mother of the groom dress. So y'all be on lookout for me, everybody. I'm, I'm shopping. I will start shopping for you. I'm shopping 

Kira: for everyone. I'm just, every, every dress that I find. If it's not, it doesn't look like me, but I can see it on, like, I can visualize on somebody else.

Kira: I send them a link and people are like, whatcha are you doing? You will 

Mary: you shop for everybody? You're like, I like it. I think you should wear this. Um, yeah. And actually at the time you sent it to me, I'm like, yeah. And there we go. So there, got it. Yeah. I'm good at doing it for other people. I don't know about myself.

Mary: But you are great at it. Yeah, it's, we were very high fashion when we were in Italy. We were very high fashion. Oh, we were so high fashion. Yeah, we looked amazing is what we did. But I like this guys. So, you know, and again, like this, you don't have to hire this out. I [00:23:00] mean, that is an investment that I have set aside and I planned on and budgeted for because I feel like it's the right move.

Mary: Because if I try to do it, number one, I don't feel like I'll do it as successfully. I don't have the time, energy to keep up with all the changes. He will. He's constantly, that's his whole job. He's, he constantly, every day he understands iOS changes or Google changes. He's in. All of that. And um, I need to be removed from it 'cause I'm gonna overtalk it over, script it doom and gloom.

Mary: It. I just, you know, I think him coming in fresh, being a younger, I think it's the right move, but we'll see. Check back in 90 days and we'll see where we land with it. Um, yeah, that's not quite sure yet. 

Kira: I need to be, you know, when you go, so I use, of course I use later for my Instagram posts. Yeah. And I do a good job of like doing a bunch at once and then I forget to do it.

Kira: You know, do, do a bunch more, you know? Yeah. So I did a bunch right before we left for Italy and I was so proud of myself 'cause like stuff was working for me while I left. And then, um, but now I need to put a new batch of stuff up and schedule it or whatever. But I'm gonna go and really make sure that I do that first comment, you know, um, you know, and, and encourage.

Kira: I love that. And maybe send that link out to a couple people and be like, Hey, would you mind just dropping a, yeah, dropping a little quick comment, you know, you know people [00:24:00] who would anyway if they saw it. I just need it to be seen. You know, so, 

Mary: yeah, especially if it's your client, you say, Hey, just by the way, you're featured today, and they're gonna climb it.

Mary: Oh yeah. And then they'll share it, and that's gonna help you too. I just use meta for Facebook and Instagram. It's just easy for me and it, I've used it all the time and it's, I can do stories, I can do reels, I can do all this stuff. So, mm-hmm. I've been using meta and um. I wish it would let me do more than 30 days out.

Mary: 'cause my stuff is pretty, you know, cookie cutter, you know? Mm-hmm. But it, I mean it's, but I did the same thing before Italy, but then I got home and I hadn't checked on it until finally this weekend. I went, oh, I better check. And um, actually I was still head up and running, so, you know, but it just, just. I mean, just, it has been a little, it has been definitely slower than normal.

Mary: I'm not doom and glooming yet. I do think things will change and shift around. So I'm trying to take advantage of this time to, to learn, but not overdose. Right. 'cause that's what I found myself doing. So, and it, it is 

Kira: picking up. I mean like, yeah, I think that what I am feeling. To be unsuccessful is like my, my family session work.

Kira: But the [00:25:00] truth is, it's not that it's unsuccess. I mean, I've got stuff booked, but not the volume, but I've made almost no effort. You know what I mean? I've made, and I mean almost none. And I'm getting stuff that I would, you know, get already and I'm picking up a couple of new things, but it is not the volume that I should have at this time of year, however.

Kira: The corporate stuff is still coming, you know? Yeah. And it's just small. They're just small. They're just small InCorp, you know, small, little blah, blah, blah, but frequent. And so I'm looking at my week and I'm like acting like I don't have, I'm not shooting anything. I am shooting all the time. It's just small.

Mary: Yeah. You know, 

Kira: small, small, small. And then you get a, a family session sale and you're like, oh, that sale reminds me why I do this, 

Mary: I do this. No, absolutely. I'm with you a hundred percent. I'm with you a hundred percent. And I. You know, I think this year that a lot of my families had to choose between like vacation and portraits and they vacation's gonna win out every time.

Mary: I don't blame 'em. I just think people are being a little Me too. Exactly. I think they're just being a little bit pickier, and I do think that that will shift and change, and that's not commentary on anything except what goes up comes down. We were riding real high there for a while and I was prepared for this.

Mary: But [00:26:00] you're never fully prepared for it. So, yeah. Um, you know, I, let's commiserate together. Let's, let's all manifest it's gonna improve. Let's, let's get excited about the fourth quarter and, and be positive because the, yours not over yet. We can still turn the ship around. It's a slow turn, but we can do it.

Mary: And, um, um, yeah, ki and i's new obsession is quirk online. So if any of y'all play that hit us up, Carol will beat your ass. I'm quite good. I thought for sure I was gonna win last night. I mean, I was so close. And if she hadn't run outta Tiles first and gotten those extra six points that I almost texted you, how, how close was that?

Mary: That was crazy close. That was real close. Were you mad? 

Kira: Did 

Mary: you get mad? 

Kira: I did. I stomped 

Mary: my foot. That's why I 

Kira: didn't text you. 'cause I was like, she's coming now. She's not, 

Mary: her comment back is not gonna be nice. I'm not gonna, yeah, no, I don't, I don't care. But it's fine. But, um, that's how we are passing our time and not trying to go down all the rabbit holes.

Mary: So if, you know, if you don't have the budget to hire out, then you know, maybe find some people online that you can work on this together. 'cause I mean, there's communities, I know Kira's got some really great courses going. You can check in with her and uh, sign up for imaging. I know there's gonna be a lot of great stuff about marketing, digital marketing, just around 

Kira: the corner [00:27:00] guys, and my pre-con sales are going really well on that.

Kira: I, I hear, I don't see them directly, but I hope you're thinking about coming in and joining me on Thursday. Come in early. Come in early. Come in early, stay late, have fun. 

Mary: That's what I'm doing. Yeah. Do all 

Kira: the 

Mary: things. Yeah. So Thursday all day I'll be there. I booked my room and I, I gotta book my flights.

Mary: I'm not as good as Jeff Dhows, but I will book my flight soon. And, um, yeah. Thanks guys. Thanks for being patient with us. We're gonna try to get back on some sort of schedule. We don't know how we regularly we'll be. Podcasting. But we do love it. We do appreciate those that listen and, um, always feel, feel free to write in and tell us things you wanna talk about.

Mary: Where can they do that? Kira? They 

Kira: can do that at a place I always remember and don't have to read. They can follow us on Instagram and get your shoot together. They can follow us on Facebook and get your shoot together. They can email us at Girl at Get Your shoot together.com and subscribe to us everywhere where podcasts are played.

Kira: We'll see you guys next time. 

Mary: Thanks y'all.