Episode 195 - Mini Madness

This week, Kira and Mary dive into the wild world of $15 mini sessions, client expectations gone rogue, and how to deal when someone tries to bully you into handing over your RAWs. They discuss navigating awkward client calls, the dangers of uncalibrated drugstore prints, and why educating every decision-maker matters. The duo also chat about AI’s rise in the photography world from creepy real-looking fake videos to actually helpful editing tips. Plus, they share clever ways to use ChatGPT to match brand consistency for commercial work. It’s a real talk episode full of insight, strategy, and the occasional cat-print sweatshirt.

🎧 Listen now and get re-inspired to hold your pricing ground!

This episode was written and performed by Mary Fisk-Taylor and Kira Derryberry, produced and edited by Kira Derryberry.

Transcript

GYST Episode 195

Kira: Okay. [00:00:00] Welcome to Get Your Shoot Together, the photographers podcast where we discuss studio, business life, and keeping it all in line. I'm Kira DeBerry. 

Mary: And I'm Mary Fisk Taylor.

Kira: Hello. Good morning. 

Mary: Good morning. Hello?

Mary: Yeah. 

Kira: Wow. 

Mary: I don't know, I don't know what is wrong with me. I, um, I woke up today and I just feel like I'm. Fog or something. Maybe it's allergies or something I don't want, but Ugh. 

Kira: Oh, I, I think it's the government. But who am I to 

Mary: say, oh, who are we to say, I mean, who 

Kira: am I to say 

Mary: who needs to feed children?

Mary: That's ridiculous. 

Kira: Who 

Mary: would, you know? I will say this. I will, and now you know me. I got, I'm not gonna get started, but I will say this. I had a, I had ran across an article and I read it and I posted something the other day that one in five children rely on government assistance for food. And I think it's crazy that we didn't find that alarming.

Mary: And now we're gonna take that away, so I'll just leave it at that. Well, but we, we didn't feel like one in five was a big deal. That one in five children would literally [00:01:00] starve if it weren't for government assistance. That's not a problem. 

Kira: Well, we didn't, we, we didn't think it was a big deal when entire campuses and schools were.

Kira: You know, shot to pieces and then one, one guy dies and everyone freaks out about this one guy dying. Yeah. That, so, I mean, I don't understand the imbalance either. 

Mary: Yeah. I need, I need them to update my manual because I'm certainly not understanding rules. 

Kira: If 

Mary: rules if 

Kira: could, yeah. If somebody could give me that handbook for, 

Mary: yeah, I need an update 

Kira: for what this is, I would like that, that would be helpful.

Kira: But no, I mean, we have a friend and, and actually I thought it was incredibly brave of her. I, I don't, I don't even know if brave is the right word, but our friend Marissa. On Facebook was posting about how, uh, she's a pho, a photographer up in the northeast, and she was, uh, talking about how that is how her and her mother survived after her father died when she was a kid.

Kira: Um, 

Mary: I'm sure 

Kira: mean on these programs. Mm-hmm. 

Mary: Yeah, my friend, I mean, I have several friends, my friend, I mean that I, that's how they got by when they were young or when they were. Single parents trying to get their feet on the ground, you know, after having a baby, you know? And [00:02:00] so it's, it's, it's, it's a thing.

Mary: And um, yeah, again, I don't, I don't know why one in five is not out. I don't know why we're not appalled by that. But we lived with that and now we're gonna take that away too. So, you know, there we are. 

Kira: Cool, cool, cool, 

Mary: cool. I will say props to Virginia and it's hard for me to do, 'cause I haven't been the biggest fan of our governor, but Virginia is one of the only states that has called the state of emergency.

Mary: And we are pulling funds to make sure Virginia's. Chickens eat. Yeah, I know that sounds ridiculous. 

Kira: But, um, here we're, um, on the, um, polar opposite, DeSantis says that he will not, so 

Mary: that feels on brand for, um, Florida though. 

Kira: Yeah, I mean that's not surprising. Uh, I didn't, I'm not surprised. Very on brand.

Kira: Very on brand. So, um, anyway, so I woke up. I think what you're feeling is malaise. 

Mary: Yeah, maybe that's, you know what, and that's such a good word, too. Malaise. It sounds kind of fancy, I feel Malaise, maise, iCal, that's not a word. 

Kira: No lackadaisical. That's 

Mary: lackadaisical is a word. But I like iCal. I, I don't know. I feel like I 

Kira: could 

Mary: start a trend.

Mary: [00:03:00] Maybe. 

Kira: Maybe see how it goes. Who knows? Um, yeah, I was feeling that general malaise. This morning. So I watched a lot of Halloween memes 'cause this is my favorite season, which turned a little bit. It's um, I posted on Instagram, you know, with some recent work, which made me actually that magazine cover that.

Mary: Yeah, I saw it. I already liked it. 

Kira: Thank you. 

Mary: Yeah, she was working on it when we were, I. In our Spook in Italy. Hotel In Rome, yeah, 

Kira: yeah, yeah. In our, 

Mary: when we both were coming down with the worst case of the flu we've ever had. Yeah. That my gods. Yeah, that's right. That's what we were doing 

Kira: in a full sweat. Um mm-hmm.

Kira: I was like, I'm fine. This isn't, I just have a cold, you know? Um, yeah, it's fine. Full flu. Um, but, uh, but yeah, that magazine cover came out and then, um, and then I went to TJ Maxx. Um, you 

Mary: did, 

Kira: you 

Mary: bought a sweater. You used to have 

Kira: I bought an an, an an animal print sweater. Those who know me know that I, I can't pass by an animal.

Kira: Print sweater. 

Mary: Yeah, 

Kira: no, a sweatshirt. That's ridiculous. Just an animal print. 

Mary: Yeah. 

Kira: Not a dalmatian print. I mean, let's be [00:04:00] specific. Not 

Mary: like a no dalmatians and no cows. I actually saw a pair of pants at anthropology and they were cow print. And I guess if I were like a two or, I don't know, but I just can't imagine putting a cow hide across my.

Mary: Kaha print across my rear end. Like I just, 

Kira: mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No, 

Mary: this ain't 

Kira: Texas Mary. 

Mary: No. No ma'am. No. This ain't Texas. That's right. Beyonce, 

Kira: uh, 

Mary: yeah. No. So 

Kira: no mine's. I go for the warmer cat print. 

Mary: I like a cheetah or I have a lot of cheetah. A lot of leopard. Alex is like, how much exactly do you need? And I'm like, I'll let you know when I, 

Kira: I'm getting into, I'm getting into a warm tiger print, you know, not blocking my tiger print, but I like, I like a tiger.

Mary: Okay. 

Kira: Um, you know, but cat prints generally. 

Mary: Okay. Yeah. Cats like a, yeah, I like a leopard and a cheetah. Those are my absolute favorites. I have, I have shoes in every heel height. I definitely have sweatshirts. I definitely have sweatpants, which are my favorite sweatpants right now. 

Kira: Mm-hmm. 

Mary: Uh, they're that daily practice brand from, um, uh, anthro and I.

Mary: They're favorite sweat pants. They have the [00:05:00] best pockets. 

Kira: I will. Um, uh, here's a polarizing opinion. Maybe. Maybe. 

Mary: Okay. All right. 

Kira: Um, be well for gen generationally. I think you and I, our generations will agree on this. I don't know about the young, the kids. I don't know if they'll, the kids, they'll agree on this, but I think animal print and the cheetah side is a neutral.

Mary: It's a hundred percent a neutral. 

Kira: It's a neutral 

Mary: and would tell you that 

Kira: you can throw that with anything. I don't know about these kids though. I don't know if they've embraced, uh, animal print in the same way our generations have. 

Mary: Yeah, my daughter does. Not particularly like now. I think she's growing to like an animal print, but she was definitely anti animal.

Mary: I'm 

Kira: seeing more and more of it out, like, you know, there was a minute where it was a little bit harder to find, but there's a lot of it out 

Mary: right now. No, it's definitely come back. But I have, I held onto mine as core as. I had that Kate spay dress I wear that I love. That's cute. Um, you know, I bought, I had the jeans and I had the gray leopard and the warm leopard depending on my mood.

Mary: 'cause like I think you can pull 

Kira: both those off. 

Mary: Yeah, I definitely can. That's definitely my jam. So I love leather and suede and animal prints. I love fall. [00:06:00] I actually, um, like boots bring it on. It's Hans solo season for me. I love it. 

Kira: Um, I, uh, recently caught the new PPA website and there are videos of me from about.

Kira: 10 or 12 years ago on there. And I am in fact wearing the loudest animal print sweater that I thought. 

Mary: You also will go with a neon animal print. Oh, I will. Which is bold. It's bold. 

Kira: Yeah. Like a lot. Like a chartreuse and hot pink. 

Mary: Yeah, you will 

Kira: combo. I love that. 

Mary: Yeah. Yeah, you 

Kira: do. That feels real. Real eighties.

Kira: I like a day glow Animal print. 

Mary: You do love a day. Yeah. Um, and it works for you. It works for you a lot. It absolutely does. Um, but, but yeah. So, um, here we are. Here we are. Um, 

Kira: well that cheer me up. Honestly. 

Mary: I'm so happy. But I You had that, you already had that sweater. I just, I'm just telling she keeps to not No, you absolutely did.

Mary: 'cause you used to wear it all the time and that, but this is like a long, this is before you were on the executive committee. 

Kira: I had a sweatshirt. That was a maternity, it was a 

Mary: mock 

Kira: that I wore for [00:07:00] too long. 

Mary: It was a mock turtleneck sweater. 

Kira: Oh, the black and gray one? 

Mary: Yes, 

Kira: it was black and gray. Okay. 

Okay.

Mary: There we go. Yeah. 

Kira: Alright. I do remember that one. I saw 

Mary: it was that sweater in cool tones. Let's like, it's the same sweater. 

Kira: All right. 

Mary: But it's cute. It looked on. 

Kira: Thank 

Mary: you. I actually, um, Terry doesn't listen to this podcast, but I always try to do something funny at Thanksgiving. 'cause I always go to Terry's house and we do the Kentucky thing and I got us t-shirts and one says Sweet potato and one says kind of rude potato.

Kira: I wanna, I want, I want the T-shirt that just says kind of rude potato. I want, 

Mary: I did. Yeah. That's what I'm wearing. And she got the sweet potato. I'll make us, we'll wear 'em on Thanksgiving morning when we're getting ready. Okay. She'll get like, one year I brought us all T-shirts that said different foods you serve at Thanksgiving, like mashed potatoes, gravy, beer, wine.

Mary: Like it was so funny. We all warm and did a big group picture. I love, I love a shtick, you know that. I love a good shtick. 

Kira: I love that. Um, [00:08:00] I'm definitely gonna look that up. For our family because, um, 

Mary: kind of rude potato is kind 

Kira: of rude. Potato is kind of my favorite 

Mary: because you could give your mom sweet potato or lou sweet potato Oh.

Mary: And you could be the kind of rude potato. 

Kira: Ah, that would be so good. Yeah. 

Mary: Mm-hmm. 

Kira: Because you don't wanna give someone else the kind of rude potato. 

Mary: No. You have to own the, you have to take 

Kira: Yeah. 

Mary: The kind of rude potato 

Kira: that's, that's just, that's actually a kind of rude potato thing to do is give, 

Mary: it would be 

Kira: give a family member the kind of rude potato shirt.

Mary: A hundred percent. Can you imagine? Excuse me. 

Kira: Still still suffering. Bless him. Bless him. 

Mary: Oh my goodness. Um, so, yeah. Um, I'm gonna, I got him on Etsy, so I'm gonna, I'll share the link with 

Kira: you. Send the link. Yeah. Oh my God, that's hilarious. Okay. 

Mary: Mm-hmm. 

Kira: I love that. Um, I need to tell you that I am a nearing mid 40 woman and I will be, uh, in a group themed, uh, Halloween costume with two of my, my friends, my other mom's friends.

Mary: Okay, 

Kira: so we are as, as we do [00:09:00] every year. We trick or treat. Right Lucy and as Lucy does every year for at least some time. Do you wanna guess what Lucy's gonna be for Halloween? 

Mary: I'm gonna go with Taylor Swift something. 

Kira: Taylor Swift Midnights. Okay. We're going with Taylor Swift midnights this time. Cool.

Mary: Cool. 

Kira: So she's doing Taylor Swift midnights. Um, and my friend Meredith is coming in town and her kids are gonna trick or treat with us like they normally do. And then our friend Jenny is, uh, as as normal, is gonna come with her little kids and they're gonna trick or treat. I don't wanna, I don't wanna get into what the kids are gonna be, 'cause you know.

Kira: Kids are kids. What we are gonna be though The three of, what are y'all gonna be? Yeah. Three. Oh, we are going as the hunters, uh, musical group from K-pop demon hunters as seen on Netflix. And this is not, your face is exactly the kind of face that I thought you would make at this. Yeah. Because I can see you have no idea who K-pop demon hunters are.

Mary: Well, you tried to make me watch it in Spain and I said No, 

Kira: it's so good. Really. It's better than it should be. The songs are so good. People are watching it, Mary. People without Children [00:10:00] are watching it. 

I 

Mary: know. I, I hear and I've heard a lot about it, so I know what it is because. I feel like it's being shoved down my throat.

Kira: Okay. Well it's gonna be further shoved down because I can't wait to send you, we are coming to the studio to do our, our portraits in our, of course, in our costumes. 'cause why? Yes, why bother If you're not gonna do a whole photo shoot 

Mary: portrait session. Yeah. 

Kira: So we're gonna be doing that. Um, and I, this, this is making me so happy and, you know, if you can't do things that bring you joy in these dark times, um, what, what the hell are we doing?

Kira: You know? So, uh, 

Mary: you're not wrong. 

Kira: Like, I'm so you excited. Not wrong. 

Mary: You 

Kira: are not wrong to go. I got a long, I have, I'm gonna be in, um, like a, a pink, like a long dark pink wig. Very excited about it. 

Mary: Yeah, 

Kira: very excited about it. It's gonna be, it's gonna be pretty epic. 

Mary: I am so happy for you. I think that sounds F amazing.

Kira: F 

Mary: amazing, F amazing. And, um, I will turn all my, I'll put a table out by the street, turn all my lights off and go hire room. Just hope for the best [00:11:00] room with my dogs because the doorbell. Oh, as you can imagine, 

Kira: yes, 

Mary: it's just a mess. And we don't get as many trick or treaters. Now, when my kids were little, this, this neighborhood was full of kids, but they've all, they're all adults and we haven't had as many people, you know, move in with littles.

Mary: Um, and I don't know if trick or treating is still a big thing here. Um, a lot of the, like the science museum will do something and a lot of people go there, uh, just for safety reasons. Um, yeah. And my neighborhood's weird. It's kind of a little pocket neighborhood. Yeah. Like in the city. And so there aren't, it's small and there aren't a lot of kids and people used to like drive into our neighborhood because I guess it was quote unquote, you know, maybe a little bit fancier or whatever.

Mary: Mm-hmm. But they don't as much anymore. Um, I think they go to the mall and stuff like that. So 

Kira: we, we have, uh, nearby, actually near the studio here, there is a street called Beard Street. And it is like. It's like Mardi Gras out there. The, the, the fa the people that live on that street, they mm-hmm. I mean, they probab, one of my, um, friends that lives over there says she has to buy like [00:12:00] $500 worth of candy to give out because, and, and the houses are all decorated.

Kira: They're, the streets are filled. Just packed, packed, packed, packed. It's a little too much. I, I love to see it, but it's a little too much to be with trying to get Lucy through it. It's, it gets dark and it gets crowded and it just gets a little bit too, too much for Lucy. Um. You know, visually, you know? Yeah.

Kira: And, and we don't love it, but so we've done it before, we actually just do a little half loop around our neighborhood. There's some neighbors that always like kind of set up and they always give out adult trick or treats. As well. 

Mary: Yeah. 

Kira: Um, I believe it is Fireball, little Fireballs, um, okay. That the gym out and um, and then after the kids are done trick or treating the littles, you know, go home, go to bed.

Kira: We have another neighbor that has a, a, a party like around eight 30. You know that we'll probably. Oh, wow. Go to me and Kevin and Lucy. You know, and now y'all have 

Mary: got a thing, you got a whole 

Kira: thing. We love Halloween in our neighborhood. Like it's, we do, it's, it's a big thing. I, but I just couldn't get [00:13:00] it together to even decorate this year, which made me super sad.

Kira: We usually do our front yard and everything we do, but 

Mary: yeah, 

Kira: uh, we travel a lot, so it just felt either I would've had to do it in September. Uh, and then everyone look at me weird or really late in October because we were gone 

Mary: and I didn't either. I didn't, I usually I don't. And also me and also me, I did not, but I, I don't do Halloween, but I always put out pumpkins and mums and all the stuff.

Mary: Sure, 

Kira: yeah. Yeah. Seasonal stuff. Yeah. 

Mary: And, um, didn't even, didn't even, uh. Didn't even, uh, put, put a, put the fall wreath up. Like, I don't know what happened. I didn't either. 

Kira: I have a 

Mary: falleth, I didn't, I like was gone. I was in Spain, then I was in Italy, and then I got home and it was fall. Like, you know what I mean?

Mary: Yeah. Like, I think I missed it. Like I, I was surprised when I got home and it was actually fall, like, because I feel 

Kira: like I was, I was surprised when I went outside today and it was fall, like Tallahassee just to this morning woke up and said fall. 

Mary: Okay. So, and, and actually it's warmer here today than it's been.

Mary: But anyway, uh, Halloween is great. I, you know, um, [00:14:00] I, I get. It's not my thing, but when the kids were little, of course we were into it. And now we have Holly Ann, but she's only three months old. So you know, they're going to a little party and they're going as she's going, as a, uh, cappuccino. Oh no. And Rusty and Dylan are wearing like Starbucks aprons and, uh, they love Puffy.

Mary: And so she's going as a cappuccino. And, um, I'm sorry, my, my great. 

Kira: That's the cutest thing I've 

Mary: ever 

Kira: heard 

Mary: is one of the cutest, I mean, wait till you see the new picture of her. 'cause she's smiling now. 

Kira: Please send me this cappuccino picture. 

Mary: Oh, I don't have a cappuccino picture yet, but just any picture of her.

Mary: She's so cute. She, Andy's my sister's keeping her a couple days a week. So they came and visited the other day and I got to hold her and squeeze her. 

Kira: Did you put her whole entire foot in your mouth? Oh 

Mary: no. 

Kira: Oh my God. 

Mary: Frowned upon 

Kira: cute aggression. Cute aggression. Mm-hmm. That's what it is. And you know what cute aggression is?

Kira: It's too, it's, you're, you're, uh, there's so much joy. Uh, in your brain that your brain has to muffle it a little bit because the joy is so overwhelming. So then you take, you, you squeeze something a little too hard or you bite, or you just like try and [00:15:00] bite it, and that's killed cute aggression because you're too overwhelmed by how cute it is that you, your brain has to sabotage that a little bit by making you wanna bite it.

Mary: Right. Right. 

Kira: Isn't that a weird thing? That is actually a thing. And ISI suffer from acute aggression. 

Mary: You do you you do. You do, you do have that. You wanna squeeze and pinch and 

Kira: mm-hmm. 

Mary: You, yeah, you, as you grit your teeth. Yes. 

Kira: Sometimes I do it to you. There's times I squeeze you. Yes, 

Mary: you have. Um, yeah. It's, uh, but that 

Kira: means I love you too much.

Mary: It does. It is a, it is a sign of, it is a sign. Your aggression is a sign of love. 

Kira: I I just keep telling people that, and they keep, they really put off by it. And I think that's weird. I'm, I'm trying to explain that. I just literally so much, 

Mary: I can't imagine why they would be a, a why they would be a, you know, shocked.

Kira: Look, if you can't, if you can't handle this love, 

Mary: I can't handle this 

Kira: love. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Mary: Oh my gosh. Ah, 

Kira: so lemme tell you something that happened this week. 

Mary: Let's go 

Kira: back to [00:16:00] work. 

Mary: Back to 

Kira: back to work thing. So I did this. I did, I got a referral. I've, I've been, this year has been good on referrals. Like as far as like, it, you know, the, the new business has not been as organic as I'd like, but the, but the good clients that I've worked with, or the people that I've worked with in the commercial space, they have made referrals to me, which is great.

Kira: And so I got a, a very qualified referral to do a very last minute senior session. And, um, um, you know, just like an outdoor, like for, for a young man, uh, just a so handsome, this kid, I mean, and so accomplished. And it was, it was for the year, their yearbook ad or whatever for a private school. So anyway, I, I squeezed them in.

Kira: We got out, we did it. We, you know, I've sent all of the information, um, you know, to the person, the, the mom that hired me. You know, we repeatedly talked about it over text anyway, so had a great. Uh, order session. They place their order. And, you know, I strongly believe, I don't like clients. I don't [00:17:00] try to shove everything down their throat.

Kira: I want them to leave with the things they absolutely need to leave. And I think that they'll invest more in those things. I think, I think you agree, right? We're not trying to sell, sell 400 photos. We're trying to, you know, get that down to the things they must have. Right? 

Mary: Absolutely. 

Kira: And, um, and on the appropriate things.

Kira: They needed these in a pinch to get digital files for the yearbook ad, right? 'cause they were building out their yearbook ad and so we did the order session. Everything goes fine. I get a phone call from the dad. Um, the other day. Mm-hmm. Uh, and he said that he's really struggling with the, um, the quality of the photos.

Kira: And he wants to know if I can give him a disc of, of all the photos because he doesn't feel like he's ha he has all the photos. And so that took a minute to kind of interpret what he meant by that. Uh, two things. What is the quality problem? 

Mary: Yeah. 

Kira: And also what is the, um, what do we mean by all the photos?

Kira: Yeah. And so, you know, [00:18:00] I'm trying to approach it from a very positive space. This is not anyone that I have met. 

Mary: Right. Okay. 

Kira: Or done any. But he's the, he was, he's the spouse of the woman that hired me, the dad of the, of the kid. And he seems a little annoyed on the phone, but I could be misreading that, you know, I mean, right.

Kira: Um, but his. Anyway, so I'm, I'm on the phone with him and he is like, I need, the quality of the pictures are are bad. And I was like, well, could you, let's, let's dive into that. What is, what is the issue with the quality of the pictures? How, how are you having issues with it? He goes, well, you know, my my wife is having, is struggling.

Kira: When she's printing them, they look bad. And I was like, well, where is she printing them? And what do you mean by look bad? He goes, they're printing so dark. They're so dark. Right. And apparently she was printing them at Walgreens. 

Mary: Okay. 

Kira: Okay. Okay. I said, well, you know, I can't guarantee a Walgreens print because you know, they don't change their inks.

Kira: They're not calibrated, they're not a professional lab. All the, all the things you say. I was like, but you know, I can certainly. Make a recommendation for that. We have a local lab in [00:19:00] town. I made a recommendation for them to go there, or of course I can, you know, print any, anything that I print will be guaranteed to be, you know, color calibrated in with a professional lab.

Kira: And so I give him that recommendation. He, of course, he was gonna go to the local place. That's fine that I knew that this was gonna be like a wham, bam kind of thing. But then he says, you know, he wants all of the photos. And I said, well, your, you know, you have, your wife has all of the photos that were purchased.

Kira: I wanna say it was like 11 digital files. Right, right. And um, and you know, we sat through and we went through, you know, and narrowed it down to her favorites. And these are the ones that, you know, she absolutely had to have the other ones. You know, when you say all do you mean like, everything I shot and he goes, yeah.

Kira: And I was like, oh, well that's not something that you're gonna want. I mean, there's blinks, there's awkward misstep, you know, like there's, we pulled the absolute cream of the crop from our session, and he was like, but I think we paid something like. $2,000. I mean, it was very expensive for me not to have everything, you know, and so this is a [00:20:00] situation where, 

Mary: oh wow, 

Kira: you have done all this work.

Kira: With one person from educating them on the pricing, from going through the process with them, from experiencing the shoot with them and the order session, and then outta nowhere you get a call from a third party who's like, this is incredibly expensive. Is this all I get for that? And they haven't experienced any of the firsthand experiences that the other, that.

Kira: That the spouse has. 

Mary: Right. 

Kira: And I guess they're not communicating about that. 

Mary: Right. 

Kira: Right. So it was such an awkward position for me to be in, you know? Um, 

Mary: yeah. 

Kira: And, and so I sent, I said, well, first of all, if you're looking to have those digital files, let me get your email, let me send you the link where you can download them firsthand, uh, and, and get them, let me give you the address and the, and the location of, and phone number of where you can take these to get them printed.

Kira: They will print them and make sure that they look. The way that you're expecting them to look, you know? Right. Um, so we, we solved that problem, [00:21:00] I think. I was like, and then outside of that, you know, this is pricing that I did go over, you know, there these images were 150 a piece. 

Mary: Mm-hmm. 

Kira: And, um, and we did go over that my, your wife and I, you know, in via email.

Kira: Yeah. And, um, and then she, she was able to see that at the order session as well, where she, where she paid for them. So she did know this, you know, and he was like, Uhhuh. So, I don't know. I don't know who's in trouble. Is wife in trouble? Am I in? I feel in trouble, right? Yeah. You know, like it was just such a.

Kira: Have you ever had that? Like where 

the 

Mary: Oh, yes. I definitely have had that. And I, it's, it's, it's hard, but I mean, like, you know, you, you try and I know, I'm sure you do too. Like, I always say, okay, who needs to be part of, I need anybody here that needs to be part of the decision making, blah, blah. Nope, just me.

Mary: Just me. It doesn't matter. He does, he's not interested or, and it usually is that way. It's the mom. It's the mom and the dad's not interested, allegedly. 

Kira: Mm-hmm. 

Mary: Um, very rarely is it vice versa, but if it could be, 

Kira: yeah. 

Mary: And then you have this, you know. This, you know, outraged [00:22:00] spouse or partner or whatever.

Mary: Yeah. And I'm like, uh, yeah, this is awkward. So what I usually try to do is, Hey, can we just, I would say let's get a, um, zoom, or let's get a FaceTime scheduled with your wife and loop her in because she has all the information, she had all the information before any decisions were made. And I just wanna make sure that, you know, we're all on the same page because it makes me feel awkward and because of the fact that.

Mary: Unless I, I mean, I've also had situations where there's been a separation or even, you know, pending divorce and I not realize that. 

Kira: Oh, yeah. 

Mary: And yeah, and like if the dad or the mom commissioned me and they're not together anymore, I can't legally sell them any of the images of if they're under 18, like, I can't do that.

Kira: Right. 

Mary: You know, I had that happen recently and, um, it's a really, it's a really bad divorce and the mom like sent me message after message on Facebook and more information than I ever need. Um, and the dad has gone on, he's remarried. He's, you know, he's got custody of the daughter, and we did this huge photo, I mean, one of the biggest sales of the year.

Mary: And [00:23:00] she's like, insisting that I sell her some of these images. And I'm like, I can't. 

Kira: Yeah, because 

Mary: you weren't, you didn't commission me, 

Kira: right? 

Mary: Like, I can't, 

Kira: well, there was, and then there were additional things, Mary, like, he was like, are you using my son's picture in advertising? I said, no, ab absolutely not.

Kira: You know, I mean, I don't have a, unless, unless you know. Unless you signed a model release or you know, whatever. Yeah. I mean, no, absolutely not. We're I, because Well, 'cause I don't want you to, and I was like, ab it's not anywhere. I, I haven't posted that and I won't Of course. Thank you. Thank you for letting me know.

Kira: I, you know, specifically that you didn't wanna do that, but, so there was, there was that moment and then. Coming back to the session. The whole time I'm at the session, or even when I was booking the session, the mom's like, you're doing me a favor. I will pay anything to get, you know, these done quickly. I'm gonna have to have them turned around like in a, in a day or two from the session.

Kira: And I was like, that's fine. She goes, I'll pay any rush fees. No, no, no. I can get it done. I didn't charge rush fees or anything. Yeah. You know, this is just what it costs and I know I can get it turned around in time for you, so there's not a rush. You [00:24:00] know what I mean? Like it's, it's fine and I can fit you in.

Kira: So, you know, and then the. So it, for all intents and purposes, everything was qualified. You know what I mean? Like you, 

Mary: you, yeah, you would think so. I mean, that's pretty, that's pretty clear, you know? Yeah. That's a pretty clear intention. I mean, I don't know what you could have done differently. It's just the way it happens.

Mary: And, and for example, we recently, not the same, but similar, like, you know, we work a lot. Hi waffles. Uh, we work a lot with, 

Kira: she's got waffle 

Mary: waffles just on waffles is right in the microphone on camera 

Kira: with her. 

Mary: Yeah. 

Kira: Waffle. 

Mary: Say hi to Aunt Kira Waffle. 

Kira: Hi waffles. 

Mary: Uh, um, so we have, we work a lot with referrals.

Mary: Like we'll say, you know, could you refer, 'cause that's where a lot of my new business comes from, refer some of your friends or whatever. Mm-hmm. And we always offer them a complimentary session and gift print that's just easy peasy lemon squeezy, right? Yeah. So here we go. And um, one of my really good clients referred her.

Mary: Um, uh, referred her, um, her stepson [00:25:00] and, I mean, this has been one of my go-to clients for years. I mean, it just didn't, this guy. Ran me ragged. Oof. Like he wanted more than what was agreed upon. And we have emails and text messages saying exactly what they would receive. And they came in and he's like, we took two hours of our day.

Mary: My wife bought outfits, blah, blah. I'm like, sir, I am so sorry. I don't, I mean, here's our initial text message. 'cause I texted him. That's how we initially started talking and it's very clear what. I said you would receive. And you know, it's a, it's a $650 gift that no strings attached. And, um, I mean, but I'm not kidding.

Mary: Like, he just would not take no for an answer. And he really tried to bully me. 

Kira: I, well, that's how 

Mary: I felt. And giving him more, 

Kira: that's what, that's what I feel. I feel like this call was the bully. The bully attempt. Right. 

Like 

Mary: this is, and that Yeah. That's what it sounds like. Yeah. It sounds just like, I mean, it's a b It is.

Mary: And not letting it go like a dog with a bone. Like, I'm not letting this go. I'm gonna keep [00:26:00] on until you tell me Yes. And hey, you know what props for, you know, people who, you know, are willing to hang in there. But dude, 

Kira: I, I mean, like, you know, it's like going and getting, I don't know, a wedding cake and then after you've eaten it, going in and going, I thought that cake was too expensive.

Kira: Yeah, and I think you need to give me another cake or, and, and my money back and make it 50% off, like, you know what I mean? Like whatever that's. The, 

Mary: yeah. 

Kira: The product has been consumed at this point. Like, 

Mary: yeah, it's done. Deal. I mean, yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. I, and I don't know, I mean, there's really not a lot you can do about it.

Mary: It's just, you know, I would loop the mom in as quickly as possible because maybe she, you know, I thank, I found in the past when this has happened on a couple other occasions where when I loop in the other party that actually knows what they're like, why don't you stop? Like, this is not what we agreed upon.

Mary: And they usually can calm the other one down. 

Kira: Yeah. 

Mary: Um, but I mean, 'cause they're the one with all the information. Right. You know? Now I have had it the other way where the mom all of a sudden kowtows to [00:27:00] the bully and doesn't say a word or defend me that Yeah. They were very clear. And I have had that happen as well.

Mary: And you just have to, unfortunately, you just have to like, just ride it through and realize they're probably never coming back. 

Kira: Right. But it's, it's stuff like this Mary that. And we stuff like this that makes me just kind of like, so disheartened. 

Mary: I know. 

Kira: You know, where you're just like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna fight with people over this, this is my career, this is my job, this is my work.

Kira: I, of course, was super polite to him and I tried to offer him a lot of solutions, you know? Yeah. Um, and got off. And when we got off the phone, I mean, I, my assumption is that it's fine now, you know? Right. I mean, because I explained everything. Um, but. Uh, I shouldn't have to do that. 

No. 

Kira: You know, I, it just, it's so, it was so de demoralizing.

Kira: Yet 

Mary: here we are. Yet here we are. I mean, I feel like specifically since. The economy is the way it is, and this year has been the way it is in the past [00:28:00] couple years. Maybe for some people, whenever I feel like, like I, when I logged onto social media this morning to just post or what have you kinda look through, I'm, I'm running some legions, so to check my legions and all, when I logged on, I can't tell you how many popups there were of studios around me doing these Halloween minis.

Mary: One of them was as low as $15. 

Kira: Well, this, I can, I'm, I can't believe because, you know, I feel like minis are like. Right. Like, like cheap, cheap minis are back. 

Mary: Yeah, 

Kira: because I just got a phone call from a woman yesterday who was saying that the photographers she normally works with are already booked and they're all doing these holiday theme.

Kira: She didn't want it, so that was good. You know, she was like, they're doing these, these holiday theme things and she doesn't want to go into the studio and pose in front of someone else's Christmas tree. And I was like, oh, well I don't do that. You know, like, I mean, we don't offer that. There's nothing wrong with it, but.

Kira: That's not what I do. And I felt like I had to, um, explain to [00:29:00] her what I do. I don't know, like I, I think she was inundated with all these holiday minis that she was trying to find somebody not doing a holiday mini. I'm, I'm telling her that I don't do holiday minis, and we're still, it was like I was having to convince her that I was different than, than what she was.

Kira: But I, but I, you know. I think that I, there's nothing wrong with holiday mini sessions, but the, the price point that people are offering 'em at, I don't get, 

Mary: I don't know. I don't understand 

Kira: because the volume that you would have to do them to make it profitable is. Ob. 

Mary: Obscene. It is obscene. It really is. I look, and I'm not sitting here, I'm not trying to like be to be negative about minis.

Mary: If you wanna do 'em, do 'em, but I just can't understand how $15 and it was something like $15 and you got five files. So I'm like, whoa. I was like, whoa. Wait, 

Kira: I thought you said 50. It's 15. 

Mary: 15 was the lowest one. I saw this one. 

Kira: Oh my god. 

Mary: I, I just don't understand how you're making any money. Well, I mean, [00:30:00] you're obviously not paying yourself.

Mary: I mean, there's just no way you're paying yourself and, um, yeah, uh, yeah, uh, I, I, I don't even understand. I don't understand. Well. 

Kira: You know, it is a completely different market than what we do. But I mean, if the, here's what I would hate to think is the, was the quality higher than $15? I mean, like, 'cause is this some, somebody with an Insta Camm out there, you know, taking Polaroids?

Kira: Or are we, is this a professional? You know what I mean? Like that can't. I mean, just on the popup ad alone cost if they're paying for advertising. 

Mary: Exactly. That's what I thought. I was like, you pay more than that for this, this popup or this, you know, digital marketing. 

Kira: Yeah. 

Mary: And um, and this is definitely a photographer that a lot of us would know.

Mary: Name. So, um, so yeah, I was, I, I was like appalled and shocked and sad all at the same time because I'm like, you know, I'm, I've definitely been very vocal about the fact that we have not had the best year. This will probably be the first year in over a [00:31:00] decade that we won't, you know, break. Through our goal numbers and mm-hmm.

Mary: And everything. Mm-hmm. And I'm, you know, I, I, I'm just, I'm, if I'm anything, I'm honest about it and that's okay. You know, because this happens, it's not the end of the world. But, um, I, I will just sit there and do nothing before. I'll offer my work for 15 bucks. 

Kira: Yeah. I mean, we're not $15 a package, you know.

Mary: No, 

Kira: we're not there. That's a totally different business model. I mean, that's not anywhere near what we, 

Mary: I mean, you better be cranking through. 

Kira: 3000 of these sessions, I mean, 

Mary: yeah. And spending like three minutes with them. Yeah. Like, I don't know how you make $15 profitable unless you literally, it's a factory type situation set up, you know, unless 

Kira: you've got a robot doing it.

Kira: I mean, 

Mary: yeah, maybe, 

Kira: you know, like maybe 

Mary: I went to Plazas Teca, which is a Mexican restaurant here in, I know there are other places, but, um, they actually, um, I was served and the cl the table was cleared by robot. 

Kira: How'd that make you feel? 

Mary: Not good. 

Kira: It feels unsettling. 

Mary: It feels very unsettling. I did not like it.

Mary: I also am not [00:32:00] liking the fact that I try really hard not to, but I've fallen for a couple different things recently that ended up being not true or ai. 

Kira: I'm really upset by that too. The videos that people are producing, it's because it is, it looks 

Mary: real. 

Kira: It is because soa, uh, which is open AI's, um mm-hmm.

Kira: Um, video generator, um, came out with SOA too. And now you can add your own likeness and voice, which is a little bit di different. It is kind of like the Hagen thing that I was playing with and that I'm working on, but it's little small videos like, like social media, small 

Mary: Yep. 

Kira: Videos that you can add your likeness and voice to, and they look.

Kira: And it's got you like doing all kinds of stuff. I mean, you can have yourself doing all kinds. I could, I could have me outside and hiking for Christ's sake. And, and, and 

Mary: No, I know. 

Kira: Riding a bike and would think that that was me. 

Mary: Yeah. Riding a bike. Me riding a bike and you be, she 

Kira: okay. 

Mary: If you see me riding a bike, guys, it's, it's fake.

Mary: Fake. I'm just gonna tell you that's fake. You see me outside? 

Kira: Hiking. Fake, 

Mary: fake. Yeah. Um, definitely fake, but it was unsettling. 'cause I was like, oh my gosh. And then I was like, oh, wait a minute. Hold on. And I, [00:33:00] but it looked. I had no reason not to believe it was real. Um, and I'm sure that most people, especially, you know, you think about my generation are a little bit older, that aren't as savvy to what's going on right now.

Mary: It's kind scary. I can see where, yeah. You know, and, um, was it just, just a. Last week or something, there was already a case about somebody, you know, getting accused of something. 'cause there was video and, you know, 

Kira: well they're making like security camera looking video too, like, I mean, yeah, the first one I saw was those, it was that black and white of, um, like a, like a ring cam that was.

Kira: At a, 

Mary: oh yeah, yeah. 

Kira: On a trampoline with the bunnies jumping on it. Yep, yep, yep. And then everybody got fooled by the, the bunnies jumping on the trampoline. Like everyone was fooled by the, those bunnies. Yep. And we were all like, look at this, these bunnies on a trampoline. Like, not for a minute did we think this can't be, this could possibly be, 'cause it looked so real.

Kira: It looked so real. And then all of a sudden we all figured out it was some AI generated ring camera. 

Mary: Yeah. 

Kira: Low quality video. Was, it was really sad. 

Mary: It is hard. And I was talking to an editor of a, of a industry magazine recently [00:34:00] and, um, won't mention it, but, um, they were really upset and now they have to ask anybody who turns in an article if it's AI generated, and they have to just take, you know, your word.

Mary: And, you know, their whole thing was like, you know, I've been an editor my whole life. I'm a writer and now, you know, if I'm just gonna get AI generated articles, I'll just do the magazine myself. Like, why bring in guest writers if you're just gonna go on chat and have them write an article for you now, you know, I said, look, my, I wrote my article, I did run it through Grammarly, which I always do just 'cause I wanna catch any little things I said, but that's as AI as mine was.

Kira: Mm-hmm. 

Mary: Um, and, and he goes, well, I can tell it's your voice like. I have a very distinct writing style, I think. Yeah. 

Kira: Mm-hmm. 

Mary: Not that you can't train change Jack to use it, by the way, but I mean, you know, it's like I'm working on finishing up this book hopefully, hopefully this week or next. And um, I know people are gonna go, oh, it's just ai, you know, they just, AI wrote the book and I'm like, ah, no, I've spent, I've spent, you know, almost all year working on this [00:35:00] stinking thing.

Mary: But, 

Kira: well, okay, well, it's not, it, I mean, and we know that it's not gonna be AI that writes the book, right? 'cause you're, you know, 'cause you're, you. But, um. Uh, here's how about a, how about a fun, a fun tip for chat GPT for photographers. I've got a fun tip for us, uh, because bring on, I just did it. So I told you that I was shoot, doing a few event pieces that Yeah.

Kira: Um, that I don't normally take on. And one of those was for a national hotel chain and, um, they had me photograph some of their suite. Um, as well, which I don't do a lot of, I don't do a lot of like interiors. 

Mary: Yeah, 

Kira: that's hard. So I started to get a little nervous that maybe I was missing, uh, I could be missing something.

Kira: So what I did is I, I edited the photo, you know, just a clean edit of the room and then I took a screenshot of it, uploaded it to chat GBT, and I said, this is the brand that I'm working for. This is one of their. Sweets, and I am, this is gonna be for their website. So can you give me, is there any, anything I should, uh, [00:36:00] add, change, adjust to make sure that this is on brand right?

Kira: For Yeah, this, and so it gave me, it was like, of course it's always positive. It was like, well, this is like 80% there. Here's what I would do to make this match. This chains. You know, brand presence with their photography for their suites on their website, right? And so it was able to kind of look, understand the brand that I was working for and then say, you know, it might not be warm enough.

Kira: So it gave me some, you know, like, here's six things we would do to adjust to make sure that it matches their color story and their brand, and the feeling, you know, everything. So it had me warm up the image a little bit more, bring up the shadows a little bit more. It gave me just some really good little adjustments.

Kira: To make to the image, um, to make sure that it went with their national theme, 

Mary: which is what we should be using it for. 

Kira: Yes. And so I just made those edits and then uploaded the, uploaded the, the change to back to chat GPT, and it was like, this is a hundred percent ready to turn into the, to the client. And I just thought that was a good way to, [00:37:00] um, have somebody, another set of eyes, double check for things that maybe we didn't see.

Kira: I didn't even really think to go. To their website and go and compare it to other, you know, other pieces of their brand. Like as far as like the, the colors of their brand and that sort of thing. 'cause it was just an interior shot of a hotel room, you know? Right. But that's, but that's important, you know, and we need to make sure that it matches like other images from other hotels that they're, you know, that are in their brand.

Kira: So anyway, I just thought that was a cool, a cool little tidbit that photographers could be using, especially if you're doing anything that you're trying to match. A national look for. Yeah. I think that is a cool way to use it. I agree. That isn't, that isn't like having it generate anything for you. It's not, you know what I mean?

Kira: It's like, it's just getting some, some feedback, some critique that I think is useful. 

Mary: Yeah. Um, I, I love that. Um, and, and I definitely use it. I mean, I use it for lots of little things to just make my job easier or whatever, [00:38:00] but, but, um, that's a really good point. I hadn't thought about that. Um. I haven't had a job like that to, we did, we did finish up one of our big hotel jobs, but we've done all of it, so we kind of are very familiar with the brand 'cause it's a private hotel.

Mary: Mm-hmm. But, um, that's a really smart way to, to handle it and look, it is what it is and people are gonna do what they wanna do. It's just, I don't know, it's just not helping anything. Um, when we're not being authentic and we're not, you know. Creating from our mind, from our own mind, our own heart. And certainly is not good if we're just, you know, fire discounting everything in the right now.

Mary: 'cause we're afraid, like, 'cause we're all scared. We're all a little afraid guys, you know? So at least I feel that way. Well, 

Kira: yeah, and it's, you know, it's, it's not just us like, I mean, not just you and I, but not just our industry. This is right across the board 

Mary: Absolutely. 

Kira: As a whole. And it's, it is because of this, uh, the state of things right now and everything has.

Kira: Everything in in, I don't know, the last decade. We've had so many ups and downs with so many major incidents. [00:39:00] Every time it feels like this is the rock bottom, this is gonna be the end, but we always have an upswing and I have to believe that it will be cyclical and it will come back. 

Mary: It 

Kira: absolutely will because I mean, just history.

Kira: History has proven that it does. And 

Mary: we can't forget the fact that we were on a pretty big high there for several years. So we don't mm-hmm. We like to forget that part, but always say what goes up is gonna come down, so, and vice versa. What goes down is gonna come back up. I mean, that's just is going boy.

Mary: It's gonna happen, but, but anyway. But you know, you know, thoughts and prayers. Lots and prayers, lots of prayers, thoughts and prayers. Here we are. Here we are. Go do 

Kira: what you gotta do to get through this right now. Meditate. I don't Yeah, but do it. Do it. If it 

Mary: works. Yeah. Do whatever you need to do. Exercise.

Mary: I don't go shopping. Do whatever you need to do. That's 

Kira: what I do. I try to put money back into the economy. That's 

Mary: what I do. Yeah. You said capitalism, baby. 

Kira: Capitalism. Capitalism. That's what I do. I got depressed. I bought a sweater. I don't know what you want from me. 

Mary: Yeah. Sweater. Sweater. Yeah. You did your part.

Mary: Yeah. 

Kira: Did your I did part. My part today. I, I reinvested. 

Mary: [00:40:00] There you go. 

Kira: Um, there you go. All 

Mary: right, let's wrap it up. 

Kira: Let's wrap it up. Alright, so you guys can follow us on Instagram and get your shoot together. Follow us on Facebook, get get your shoot together and email us at Girl at Get Your shoot together.com.

Kira: Subscribe to us everywhere where podcasts are played and we'll see you guys next time. 

Mary: Thanks y'all.