Meet Babah Fly

In this episode we get to know an OG in Denver Hip Hop. Babah Fly's spirit cannot be contained! The creativity is constantly flowing from this wonderful human and getting to speak with Babah Fly was a wonderful time. Let's get bizzy!

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Come on, baby. We locked down. Alright. 321. It's your fucking boy.

What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Let's Get Busy with your boy, Juice Busy. Today, I'm joined by the one and only Baba Fly. Super excited to get to talk to you and get to know you a little bit more. How are you feeling today?

I'm good, man. Good. Awesome. Early morning, you know, for me sometimes. Yeah.

Yep. I'll be up late at night, man. I feel you. Making music? Making music.

Dope. That's good. That's good. I like to hear that. We're just gonna jump right into it with the song, no separation off your latest album, Choose Love.

Do you wanna give a little introduction to the song for us? Yeah. So I I wrote the song, no separation, because there's an illusion, you know, that we are separated. Mhmm. And this is kinda going into the depth of our true self of, like, no not separated.

You know? Because I think we walk around, you know, with this idea that, you know, this individualism has kinda taken over, and and I feel like that's a lot of source of pain for people. You know? And it's not like I know we're physically not together, but I think, like, deeper within ourselves, we're connected. So that's what the song is about.

It's kinda being connected. Awesome. Alright. Here we have it. We ain't separated.

We ain't separated. We ain't separated. Check and take away for empty IPC and we flipped. Stop the lease. Perform the sub check.

Remember Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Oh, damn. That's loud.

Is that loud in the in the dark tune, or is that just on me? Alright. Yeah. There we go. No separation.

Our father flies latest album, Choose Love. Go buy that on Bandcamp. Yeah. Check it out. It's on Bandcamp.

Yeah. I really dig that, just that message in general because that's something that I try to live my life by. Definitely just like we come from one. We are one. Yeah.

That's that's the that's the whole meaning of it. You know? It's it's, like you said, it's it's a it's a definite effort, you know, that, we all long for it. You know? I'm a study like I study, like, Sufism.

And, like, one of the path of Sufism is, like, like, where our hearts are always, like, aching to get back to it. You know what I'm saying? So, like like, like, if you're aching for your your lover, like, you miss her. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's always like that.

It's like, you know, always having this, like, kinda heart, you know, driven kinda, like, back to that. Mhmm. So it's like you try to live your life, you know, like, a lover will wanna come return to his lover. You know what I'm saying? So, like, that's kind of the the the theme of the separation.

You know, like, to get back, but just having that, like, path where you're just always like, man, I just wanna get back to that moment. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's what that's about. Yeah.

I can definitely, relate to that. But I like, I know that to come to that understanding that we were or that we all come from the from one creator, or that or my belief anyway that we all come from one creator, like, and that even though we may get caught up in our human egos and, like, separate ourselves from each other in that sort of way, I came to that realization through my own spiritual journey that I had to take, just because I became so separated that I was eventually separated from my true self enough to where, like, I was on a path to, of self destruction, on a path of self destruction, essentially. Is there a certain moment in your life or a certain situation that you went through that, helped bring you to that same realization? Yeah. I mean, there's definitely a lot.

Like, I feel like in our culture, we tend to to go for the crucifixion to bring us to the light. You know what I mean? Like, that's kinda like the the the theme for our paradigm. Basically, it's like, you know, you have to be crucified first before you see, you know, that that non separation. So trauma, you know, definitely been through some trauma.

But Mhmm. I remember as a kid, man, like, I watched a lot of kung fu flicks and, you know, I used to really dig on how they used to meditate. Yeah. And, like, as a child, man, I would like I had these, like, crazy bunk beds that had, like, a little secret room in them. Uh-huh.

And I, like, used to crawl under this little space, and then I would put a candle, and I just meditate in this dark room as a child. Like, so I I kinda had it, you know, like, this sort of innate sense when I was younger that, you know, that kinda helped I don't know. It wasn't from trauma. It was just, like, I just wanted to you know, I I grew up in Little Rock, Arkansas. And it's a city, but, like, man, there's there's a bunch of trees and it's like a jungle, you know.

Like, in your backyard, you go, and there's, like, creeks and shit and, like, just all kinds of natural stuff within the city, which is a trip, you know. That's beautiful. So, yeah, as a child, I would just I'd just get, you know, lost in the woods sometimes and just, like, roam and stuff. And so, like, I think they had a big influence on just, like, that meditative state because, you know, there's nothing more peaceful and serene than being in nature Yeah. Especially around a bunch of green trees.

You mean, you have to be watch out because there was, like, way more snakes down there than ever. You know? That's why I got, like, this growing up in Arkansas, man, like, I got this innate sense. I could smell snakes. I swear to God, bro.

Like, I I I was, like, walking with my daughter and I was it was like just after the rain I was like hold up hold up hold up. I was like there's a snake around here. She's like what? I was like yeah there's a snake. She's like what?

And we looked around man and found a snake. Yeah. Like it was like It's a little garden snake? Yeah. It was yeah.

It was like a garden snake, you know, by the creek over here. Right. But it's just funny how I You could sense it. Yeah. Because we have my water moccasins, bro, and them joints with those snakes would, like, come after you.

They would, like, arrest, and they were poisonous. And I've been I've been struck out by, like, what do you call it? Dang. Copperheads. Okay.

Which are like rattlesnakes without the rattle. Okay. But they're just Just as dangerous? Yeah. They're they're they're, like, yeah.

So Yeah. That's scary. Yeah. Scary, man. Like, so yeah.

I mean, that that gets away from the separate you know, but, like, you just had to keep your eye out. And Little Rock was kind of a crazy city too just, like, you know, it's really Hood, from where I'm from. And I would say I mean, hood hood's kinda like a funny word because it kinda glorifies, like, you know, being ghetto or whatever, but I feel like it was just really poor. Right. You know what I'm saying?

So, like, it was just, you know, you can get caught up pretty easily down there. But What brought you out to Colorado? My grandmother's originally you know, she's, like, native to this land. And my grandfather was a he immigrated from Sicily, and he fought in World War two. And he caught tuberculosis.

And they flew him out to Fitzsimmons, and my grandmother was a nurse. So my mom was raised out here, and so, like, I got roots out here. Mhmm. And and so, like, I came out here, after I grad well, I lived here when I was in, like, second and third grade. You know, I lived in Capitol Hill.

Mhmm. Learned how to ride a bike out there, and, you know, it was a different place back then in the 80s. Imagine. Yeah. I remember walking on Colfax and just being like, wow.

This place is wild. People were fist fighting in in the middle of the day. You know what I mean? Yeah. My dad took me to that to that Catholic church, and, like, I remember this is we had, like, got some McDonald's, and we didn't wanna bring the food in the church, and so we left it on a stoop.

And we came out, we looked in the bag and our hamburgers were gone. Oh, shit. Yeah. I think Colfax is still that way. It's just dressed up a little prettier now.

I trip out on Colfax, man. Yeah. It's like seeing these people walking down the street, like, you would get jumped or robbed twenty years ago. Yeah. You know, like, it's a trip.

Just out in the open. Yeah. Just like, wow. Just flexing. Yeah.

Man, sometimes I wish I could go back and see Colorado. I just went to, the Northside play, and they did their, like, their finale at North High School. And so we went and we watched it, and it just, like, brought it brought me back to my roots essentially because I was I mean, I was raised all over, like, home wise, but I went to school in the Northside my entire life. Okay. Yeah.

So that was where like, that's where my real roots are is in the Northside. So it just, like, brought me back home, especially after living in Springs for, like, three, almost four years now. Okay. And I was just filled with this sense of, like, nostalgia and and, like, everything that they were talking about. Like, I recognized myself and and I just wanted like, I wanna move back here so bad, but it also made me realize, like, there's a lot to Denver that I don't know about, like, a lot of history.

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because Northside, man. Like, you know, my grandfather's from Sicily. My grandmother's from, like, you know, she's like she was they were Mexican before the border crossing.

You know what I'm saying? So, like, that that area's all Italian and Yeah. You know, that Latino. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's that's that that makes because of the Catholic churches and stuff over there.

But, yeah, it's a trip. Like, my grandmother actually is from their her family has lived in Globeville. So a lot of her family is from Globeville. So but that's a I just did a show at Globe Hall. Mhmm.

And that place is a trip, man. Why? Just because it's so changed. Like, I just trip out of, like, how developed the city is and, like, you got, like, a venue there now. It's like, what's going on?

What area of town is Globeville? It's like right by the freeway. Kinda like by the coliseum ish in that area. Oh, the coliseum. See, to me that's just Commerce City.

That's like that's where I live. Yeah. Well, yeah. It's close. It's in the same like it's a little bit more Globeville is like, I guess, a little bit more west than that, but it's kind of the same area, I believe.

I'm kind of confused on that, too. Yeah. I went there as a kid. Yeah. I met all my cousins, and I was like, oh, what's up?

You know? But, yeah. Just trip out on just, like, the development of the city, man. Mhmm. Because it's, like, the history's not seen as much.

You know? No. It's definitely not like it's hard for even me to recognize, like and during that play, that was something that I learned too was that, the North Side was, very Italian, like, when, at the beginning. And and then it's like, they had immigrants come in, from Mexico and stuff. And, like and at first the Italians were kinda like standoffish about it.

Sure. But you know eventually then they just started working together and like building a community together. And it turned into what it turned into and it Right. And it was beautiful, you know. And, and that warmed my heart because, I have Italian and Mexican roots.

So it's like Yeah. Like to see both sides. It's crazy. Right? Working together.

Yeah. It's like our people's over there. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

It's like that's our spot. Because that was it's funny because, like, when I first moved back to Colorado, like, in '93, I would go to the North Side and be like, woah. This shit this feels like home. Like, people here feel like family. You know?

Like, it was a trip, you know, just because just seeing that and, like, it's cool to go to a place where you feel like there's roots like that, deep roots and stuff. Mhmm. Colorado is different now, man. I feel like. Yeah.

It's different. It's different. But, you know, like, people like us, we gotta stick around. We gotta Yeah. We're still here.

Yeah. We're still here. You know? Like, even though I live in Springs, we're down here all the time. And I'm trying to get I'm really trying to get my daughter's mom to, like, give the okay on moving back here because, we're not together, but we got a co parent still, you know.

Oh, that's cool. Yes. So I'm just like I'm like, you know, I'm not gonna move down there if you tell me, like, that it's gonna make things too hard for you, but, like, really just just consider it because, like, I miss it here. You know? Yeah.

But I just wanna build foundation down here and also introduce my daughter to the to the roots, you know, to the history. That's cool. Yeah. That's beautiful, man. Like, I got my kids are grown and, you know, they were we we we, we had a house in Capitol Hill for quite a bit of time.

So, in fact, the same house that I lived in when I was here, we lived in yeah. We lived in the same house. Was that intentional? Yeah. I mean, my grandfather, you know, he he took a lot of he he hustled hard.

You know what I'm saying? He was like I think he took loans from the loan sharks on the North Side Oh. To build house to flip houses. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, he did really well, but it's like almost got his, you know, throat cut a couple times.

You know what I'm saying? But he was from, you know, he was, like, he was an immigrant from Sicily, and then he fought in the war. He grew he he immigrated in Sicily in, I think, like, 1922 or something like that to New York. And so he was raised in New York, and, like, he used to take music classes in Harlem doing, like, doo wop classes. My grandfather is very musical.

Like, my whole family is very musical, but, you know, he he was a tough guy. You know? Like, he's, like, one of those old just bare knuckle East Coast Sicilians. Mhmm. And then he got in the war and fought for years and just saw people killed.

You know? Then he came out to Denver, and he's like, I ain't scared of nobody. You know what I mean? So he's he's like, I'll take that loan shark money. Yeah.

Go ahead. Give it to me. You know what I mean? So he did. He was he he he boxed up.

So, yeah, we lived in we lived in one of his houses. Mhmm. Has that inspired how you maneuvered through your life in any sort of way? Absolutely. You know, like, he passed he lived to be, like, a hundred and one.

He passed last year. So it tripped me out, you know, just to kinda, like, have a grandfather in my life that long. And, you know, he wasn't necessarily, like, the warmest person. Mhmm. You know what I mean?

He had a real hard life and but underneath, you can see in his eyes, he was just always really sweet. Like, but he wanted to be sweet, but he just, you know, things were so hard in his life, and he fought so much. So, yeah, I mean, he definitely inspired me on a lot of levels, just his, like, dedication, you know, and being that he was a musician too. But he kinda gave it up just to kinda, like, hustle, you know? But he he always had a dream.

He told me that he was in line in New York for a tryout for, like, a singing thing, and two two people ahead of him was Frank Sinatra. Woah. And Frank was surrounded by all the gangster dudes. You know? And my grandfather come in with, like, some sheet music trying to trying to audition.

But, you know, he he had that dream. You know? He had that dream to, like, sing, and he was a, you know, he's a tenor. And his father was a opera singer in Sicily. Wow.

And he has, like I have a very a lot of very artist, blood. Like, my great grandfather has sculptures in the church that he sculpted and stuff. And it's just we're actually gonna go back next year and just check out where he his his art and stuff. But, you know, my grandfather's a musician. I got a little brother that's, like, just graduated a DU from DU for jazz piano.

Okay. He has his master's degree in jazz. My other little brother is, like, a singer and kind of a comedian. My mom's a singer, you know, a piano player. You know?

I got my uncle who does art. You know? So it's like It's just in your blood. It's in the blood. Yeah.

It's like I think we're part it's it's said that, well, I had this dude come up to me. He's like, are you Arab? And I was like, no, man. I'm I'm Sicilian. He's like, oh, what's your last name?

And I was like, it's Garamela. And he's like, oh, y'all are mixed with gypsies, Egyptians, and what else did he say? I think he said Moroccans. Mhmm. But, like, you know, just that that whole just mixed kind of saucy, you know Yeah.

Artistic blood, you know, kind of goes through our our veins, man. It's like That is that's interesting that he asked you that, though, because that that's the impression that I got until you just told me that you were from Sicily. Mhmm. I thought that you were Arab or Hebrew in some sort of way. Yeah.

Well, I you know, okay. So check it out. So my grandmother's my grandmother's, like, you know, she's Spanish and Native American. Mhmm. But the Spanish side that came over were Sephardic Jews Mhmm.

That disguise their Judaism, and so they ended up in, like, I think, Wagon Mound, New Mexico. And they have, like, secret Jewish practices Okay. Because they would hide it from the Catholic church. They would flip over menorah candles until, like, there'd be doll tables. And there's, like, all this crazy secret history of like, in the San Luis Valley, there's a lot of, Sephardic Jews, you know, people that have these practices, and they're like, I don't know where it came from, but they just do them.

Mhmm. You know what I'm saying? So I have I do have some Jewish, you know, blood in me too. And, you know, Sicilians, like, it's, like, one of the oldest Mediterranean tribes. Mhmm.

Like, they were known as the water people. Okay. So, like, they go back to antiquity. You know? There's, like, all these old, like, stone rock sculptures.

You know what I mean? And, the flag of Sicily is crazy, man. It's like a it's Medusa's head with three legs. It was known as the Island Of Nymphs. And so, like, it was just like a very mystical kinda crazy island.

Yeah. But it's also strategic in the Mediterranean. So, like, you know, you had all kinds of people. Like, I mean, the place where my grandfather's from is, like, Ribera, and there's a there's, like, a straight that goes out there, and you can see Tanzania across the water, like, right there. And, you know, like, Sicily was conquered by Hannibal, which was like a Okay.

You know, African conqueror. Okay. And, you know, there's, like, elephant, remains on Sicily. Woah. He brought him over by boat?

Brought him over by boat, man. I think Hannibal, this African conqueror, fought the Normans, which were, like, the the the Vikings mixed with the French. Oh. So, like, these super, like, tall, you know, blonde hair, blue eyed white people fought these, like, African people on Sicily for years, the tunic wars. Wow.

And so, like, it's just, like I don't know. It's mixed up like Puerto Rico, man. Yeah. I can see why, though, with that much history why Sicilians would get offended when you, confuse them for Italians or, like, or call them Italians, you know. Well, that's that, you know, the the last name in our family is Guaramella.

Guarame means war and mella means sweet. So our name translates to sweet revenge. Wow. And so, like, there's, like, Sicily wasn't part of Italy until 1860. Mhmm.

And, like, my grand great grand great grandfather, the reason he left Sicily is because he didn't he didn't respect the aristocracy that came in. And so he, I guess there was some town kind of thing gathering. And my great grandfather was like a big guy. Like, he sang opera, and he was just like a big barrel chested, you know, he was like, he laid bricks and did sculptures and sang opera. So he's like real boisterous dude.

And, anyway, the Marquis came into this town meeting or town kind of festival, and my great grandfather just kind of looked at him, like, kind of puffed up. And there was a feud, you know, and, like, in Sicily, the feuds would, like, you know, result in some crazy deaths and stuff. So they he moved his family to Morocco, and they stayed in Morocco for a while. And then, they caught a boat to Ellis Island, and they immigrated. Right?

And he raised his son, Michelangelo Guillermo, you know, in, New York. And then World War two came, and Sicilians have a certain dialect. So the army put him in Tanzania, And then, they fought their way to Sicily. And when they got to Sicily, my grandfather was a sergeant, and he he had a hundred men under his wing. And he went to the Marquise House that messed with his father, and he threw him out with the US army and set up a base camp in his house.

So, like, the Sicilian, like, Guaramella, you know, sweet revenge kinda actually came true. It's like my aunt went, like, a few years ago, I guess, to to Rivera, and, like, their people came out to meet her on the street, you know, from their houses. They're like, oh, Garamela's returned. Oh, man. Because of the story, you know, so Yeah.

That's beautiful. Yeah. I'm I'm just sitting here in shock because that's such a that's such an amazing family history. Right? It's like the the myth.

It's like mythical. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely something to, like, carry with you. Like, this is like Yeah.

It's like the pride, you know? Yeah. This is where I come from. Really? Yeah.

So so you got you got that in your family history. You got music in your family blood, like, just art in general in your family blood. What inspired you to get into hip hop Wow. Particularly? You know, I grew up I grew up in Little Rock.

Mhmm. And, you know, like, I didn't grow up I grew up kinda in the hood, and, you know, everybody there played basketball and listened to hip hop Yeah. And break I used to break dance, man. And, like, me and my brother would get off the bus, man, and, you know, we'd be, like, the only, you know, non African American kids there. Uh-huh.

And, you know, you have to, like, sometimes, like, prove yourself in a lot of ways. Yeah. And the best way I felt to, like, kinda connect was through dance and music. And I was already very musical, and and I I like to dance. My mom I remember my mom was like when breakdancing came out in the eighties, she's like, Y'all breakdance, right?

And we're like she's just like, Yeah. Sure, mom. You know? Like, so she like really like wanted to see us do that. You know?

My mom was like, Yeah. Yeah. Y'all break dance. Y'all break go ahead and break dance. You know?

Yeah. So we started, like, just mimicking what we saw. And me and my bro, we won we actually got second place in a break dance contest when I was, like, maybe 11. I used to spin on my head and windmill and, you know, do the crab walk, run. I was like That's such a good feeling, though.

Right? Like, I Oh, man. Because I'm a dancer. I'm I'm more of a popper, I think, than anything. Yeah.

But I remember I was probably, like, 12, 13 years old or something, and they used to have this thing, somewhere in town called Friday Night Lights. And it was, it was like a little gathering, for for, like, 13, 14, 15 year olds just to, like, go to this rec center and have a dope ass time and, like, dance and and hang out. You know? And so, they used to have a competition, and I remember they had this group called IHOP that was there every weekend. And, like, and they were dope dancers, and they would always win.

And so, finally, one day, I was just like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm a join the competition. Right. I'm like, I just went up there, and I freestyled.

Like, dance move popped, and and I won. And I just I, like, that was probably the proudest moment of my of my teenage Oh, yeah. You know? Like, you know, I was like, No. I beat Ihop.

That's tight. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, I think I I I'm gonna say I wasn't even 11, man. I might have been, like, younger than that when we won that.

I'm trying to think. I think maybe I was, like, god. Third grade? Whatever whatever age you are in the third grade. But I remember just like, no.

Actually, no. It was, like, fourth, fifth, and sixth because it was during the fourth, fifth, and sixth years. Because I remember, like, I I I used to be real flexible. Like, I'm a skinny dude, and, like, I did all that kung fu stuff. And I remember we had we lived in Little Rock, but the New York City Breakers did a tour through the schools, through, like, the area, and they stopped by the school I was at.

And they came to our gym class, and they were, like, showing us some break dance moves. And I had already been doing it. And, I I used to be able to, like, fold my legs into, like, lotus positions Yeah. And then crab walk. Wow.

You know what I'm saying? Like, they was, like, like Such a new style. Yeah. Yeah. That was a new style.

Mhmm. And so they're like, yo, we're gonna put you in the assembly at the school. Mhmm. And I was, like, maybe fourth or fifth grade, and they put me in the assembly. And, like, I had the whole crowd just, like, jump up.

Like, I did that move, and, you know, like, they're tripping. And so, like, in the school, like, I'd be I'd be walking walking down the hallway from, like, one class to the next, and these cats would come up to me, like, and battle in the hallways. Like, they just start battling me in the hallway. It's like, just do my little move. You know what I'm saying?

And they'd be like, alright. Cool. Just jump right into the crowd. Keep going, man. Yeah.

So that you know, I mean, we would go to, like, the skating rinks Mhmm. You know, and we skate roller skate, and then the DJs would be like, alright. It's it's time. And so they would be like, we go in the middle, take off our skates, put our shoes on, and we just b boy battle in in the middle of the skating rink. You know, they just stop their roller skating to break dance.

So I saw, like, the, the DJ do his thing too, and that kinda inspired me, to DJ. And, you know, I think I kinda like fourth, fifth, and sixth grade, I kinda like started, like, breaking wasn't as popular. There wasn't many people doing it. And so, like, I think I got more into, like, skateboarding after that. And I still listened to, like, a lot of hip hop.

I started hanging out with more, like, white kids, you know, from the suburbs. And, like, I remember they were in the punk rock, so I was like, I kinda started digging punk rock, but I would, like, play, you know, hip hop, and they'd be like, what what is this shit? You know? Like, they kinda let talk shit on it. I'd be like, no.

This shit is dope. You know? So I was like, you know, bringing that to them. But, you know, I got into, like, punk rock culture, you know, and and and Little Rock was tight because we had, like, a really dope punk scene. Like, one of my friends, one of my good friends, man, like, we actually he he listened to hip hop too, but he was, like, you know, he was, like, a skateboard kid.

And, like, I was kinda from the hood. He was kinda from the hood. And, like, the other kids were kinda like these, like, rich white dudes, you know, but they skated, so we'd go up to their neighborhood. But we I met this this dude, Jason, and he, he was like a punk rock kid, but he also listened to hip hop. We actually tried to do a group together, like, hip hop, write songs, but he got more into the punk rock.

And then in high school, he got really into it. And, he actually is he's in the band Green Day. So he plays guitar Oh, shit. For Green Day. So when he come Green Day comes to town, like, I like those are my peoples.

You know? Yeah. That's tough. So I got something like Green Day roots Mhmm. With Jason White from Little Rock.

But, you know, I started rapping because I felt like I was so good at skateboarding. Like, I I went from, like, break dancing to, like, basketball so I could jump really high. And then I went from basketball to skateboarding so I could jump really high still. And I used to, like, ollie over picnic tables and trash cans and, you know, I was just jumpy dude. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And I remember just getting so into that, like, sports and physical stuff that I felt like mentally, like, when I talk to people, I'd just be like just a knucklehead, just like, you know, like, yeah. So I just got inspired poetry wise, tried to read more poetry and started, close knit to poetry was rap, so I just started writing raps. And, you know, that that's kinda how it sparked. It's just kinda like I felt like to stimulate my mind mentally, you know, was something I needed to do because I was so good at physical stuff.

You know, I'm a left left handed person. Mhmm. So, like, basketball was real good. You know, everything was just I could figure shit out quick. You know?

But, so, yeah, I got into hip hop or got into rapping like that and just carried around this little, like, art book, you know, those blank page art books and started just writing raps in that. And, you know, kinda got into, like, you know, some of my friends started getting crazy, and, you know, Little Rock's a crazy place, man. Like, we started, you know, getting into, like, selling drugs and shit. And, like, so I was trying to be, like, this hip hop dude that hustled, you know, Herb and all this other shit. You know what I'm saying?

Just like, so I had this kinda, like, I don't know, conundrum going on. Like, I was trying to be artistic and, like, you know, conscious, but at the same time, we're trying to make money and, you know, and Little Rock's such a gangster place, man. Like, you know, so many guns and so many you know, it's a struggle that, you know, I ended up kinda getting caught up a little bit when I was younger. And that's kinda like some of the awakening happening then. So it was, like, you know, getting arrested, getting put in jail, you know, getting arrested and getting busted for things and just, like, I need to change my life, you know?

Yeah. And, you know, I've had moments in my life, you know, like those kind of moments when I got arrested, like at 16, thrown in jail for for selling drugs. You know? And not you know, I don't, I think actually we got thrown, I got thrown in jail for like, we committed a burglary, but we did it to make money. Yeah, anyway, it's swab, but yeah, my last night in Little Rock, we we had gotten in a fist fight with the bouncer at a club because, you know, we went into this club, and I got in cool.

My other friend got in cool, and then my two black friends got hassled. And we started just asking the bouncer, like, what the fuck? You know? Like, we can't you know? And so, like, we got in this fist fight, and he, like, this dude was, like, a big ass dude.

And he, like, started roughing us up, and, like, two of my friends ran to my car and grabbed a a 22 and a 38 and went to the club and just clack clack clack clack clack clack. And then he aimed it at the bouncer and, like, it was empty. And then we just ran to my car and bounced. And that was my last night in Little Rock. So that's how crazy, you know, Little Rock was.

Yeah. Just like I did. I would have never guessed. I when I think of Little Rock, I think that it's, like, white suburban, just chill and, you know? Yeah.

Go watch never know. Go watch Banging in Little Rock. Banging in Little Rock. HBO special. Okay.

Yeah. It's like I used to see the was, like, putting the South up on the map was, like, Little Rock to banging Uh-huh. As an outcast man. Uh-huh. But that's like Little Rock to Bangin'.

You know, like, playing Little Rock was like a big thing back then, but it was it was pretty real, like, in the, you know, early nineties, late eighties, early nineties. Yeah. So I got you know, I got up I got out of there, and I went to college at Fayetteville, Arkansas for a second. I was like a wilted flower, bro. Like, that was really bad.

Like, country has Arkansas, and I'm like, I'm a rapper. And they're like, you know, do you rap? You know what I mean? Like, it was that fit in nowhere. And I took a trip to Boulder.

My brother lived here, and so, like, I was like, fucking, I'm moving here. What year was this? This is, like, '93. Okay. So '93, I moved to Boulder, and I lived with my brother.

And, you know, again, I came from kind of a crazy shell shocked kind of environment to Boulder, which was I felt like a, you know, I don't know, like a wolf in a chicken coop or something. I was just like, yeah. So I started, you know, people didn't know what to do with me, man, because like, you know, I could rap in, like, I could rap pretty good, you know, for for a white dude or whatever. You know? They'd be like, oh, shit.

This motherfucker can rap. So I was getting into these, like, house parties just, like, killing it. And I used to, tour around with this dude who was, like, a pro snowboarder, but he was also a DJ. We'd go to the mountain towns, and I'd be rocking it. But like three months since of being in Boulder, my brother went out for a night and he was kinda drunk and he got jumped by like five dudes and got almost killed on the hill in Boulder.

It was this big stirrup because, you know, violent shit didn't happen, but it's like he followed us up there. He put was put in a coma. Fuck. And I, like, you know, I I talk about that in my Choose Love interview about, like, just, you know, going from, like, this, you know, vendetta because, you know, I'm I'm part Sicilian, so we trip. You know what I'm saying?

We had that volcano blood where it was, like, all vengeful, you know? So, like, I I actually searched for a gun to, you know, retaliate. And on our way to search for the gun, or actually to get the gun, I ran into Raw Foundation, which is a dope, you know, hip hop crew here, and they was like, yo, your brother is that's your brother? Because it was in the news. And I was like, yeah.

And they're like, yo, we should do a benefit show. So literally, on my way to to look at this nine millimeter, pistol, I ran into Raw Foundation that diverted my, you know, shit to down a different path. To a whole different path. Yeah. Yeah.

They they brought me to, like, you know, they brought me to Denver to, like, the Mercury Cafe. Mhmm. You know, there's that's, like, where all the, you know, Spellbinder, Chill, Kingdom, all these, you know, big acts, you know, from all over the city would come and and do hip hop, you know, from everybody. And and, like, so I got exposed to, like, the root hip hop singing here in Denver back then through that, like, you know, that diversion of path. And so it's, like, it's always kind of been like that with me.

I remember hearing Planet Rock when I was a little kid and being like, I whispered to myself, that's the music. Like, you know what I mean? So it's always been like something that's like kept me on that path. You know what I'm saying? So like, it's always been there, you know?

And so like, you know, I recently went through a divorce and wrote this record, Choose Love, because it was also, again, one of those kind of traumatic moments where I was, like, you know, deep into this twenty twenty year marriage, you know, and, you know, kids and everything. She decided to be unconscious and, like, have her, you know, her time. And so I was like, alright. Cool. Go ahead and go with that girl.

I'll still chill with the kids and write this record. You know? And the music's always been kinda like a savior as far as, like, keeping me on the path. Because, you know, it's like I'm a human being, and I have emotions, strong emotions. And so, like, I might not, you know, sew it, but this thing you know, I'll make moves and hopefully on the right path.

And so, like, music has always been that guidance for me, you know. And that's what this album kinda like choose love is like a choice. Yeah. You know, to be to choose love versus choose bitterness or hate. Mhmm.

You know, so Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just, I mean, what else can you do? You know? There's not that because you could go with that vengeful mind state that you talked about, which, like, is in all of us. You know?

Like Of course. Yeah. Like but really, what does it what does it do besides, like, keep us in that in that victimization or keep us in that, like, hurt and that pain. Yeah. And it doesn't allow us to move on.

You know? It's difficult, to make any sort of progress in that sort of mindset. I've always felt like sensitivity because I'm a very sensitive person Mhmm. Is can be a curse and a blessing at the same time. Mhmm.

Because you can be it's like you can be sensitive enough to react. Mhmm. Right? Mhmm. But it's also you kinda can see things kinda like as they are too.

And so that's it's crucial in the choice Yeah. That you make. Very fine line. Yeah. Yeah.

Especially yeah. So with music being such a, an inner calling and being such, like, a foundation of your own peace and your own structure and guidance. How have you been able to navigate the business side of music, as in a way that doesn't corrupt, like, what music is at its root for you? Because I think, you know, I studied this Bruce Lee quote, and I'd state I live by it. It says, entertainment is not or art is not for entertainment.

It's for enlightenment. And that's you know, and my mom's always been like that. She's like, just do your do your music. Don't worry about money. Just do your music.

Mhmm. You know, like, keep this as like this thing that you do, you know, and and I feel like it is hard in our paradigm, in our capitalist paradigm to, like, not think of it as entertainment. You know? Because it is enlightenment. You know?

Like, it is truly enlightenment. The reason why we do this is to enlighten ourselves regardless, like, if how famous we wanna be. Mhmm. I think some of the fame stuff is to, like, kind of, supplement for, like, feelings that we had as church, you know, abandonment as children too. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? I see a lot of people like, I could need this fame. I need this validation. You know what I'm saying? Because they haven't been validated.

And so, like, I'm, you know, I'm just trying to be aware of myself in that. And so, like, just trying to be as artistic as possible Mhmm. As far as, like, in the enlightenment side, you know, has has been my thing. And that's what's kept me, you know, keeping keeping up with it, you know, and not be stale and always coming fresh, you know, and and brand new because it's like you have to kinda, like, adapt to the world as it comes. Mhmm.

You know, you can't just be, like, stuck on this one thing because it evolves. Everything evolves. It's like, you know, music evolution is within us. It's like, you know, who I am as a person. And so if I'm evolving, the music is evolving.

Yeah. I think I'm always evolving because Yeah. Adapting it. And that's not that's nice to hear from somebody who's been, rocking it since the nineties, you know, because Yeah. Like, there's there are a lot of old heads, whether they make music or they just are a respecter of the culture, like, that they wanna keep it at its roots, like, all the time.

It's like, well, as much as we got as we respect the roots, like, as much as we love hip hop for what it was when it first started, like, we have to evolve. Like, we have we just have to. Like, the root to me, when when people say roots, I I'm rooted in just, like, the the philosophy of it. Exactly. It's not necessarily, like, I gotta sample records, go dig in the crates, get my dusty fingers on.

You know what I'm saying? It's cool. Like, I think that's cool to to understand that, but, like, take that same concept and that same ingenuity and apply it to, like, what you have surrounded by you today. Mhmm. You know?

Because, like, times have changed. You know what I mean? Like, things are always evolving. But that same kinda, like, ambition, you know what I'm saying? That ingenuity can be applied to a lot a lot of different things.

And I see kids doing it all the time. And I think I I hear you. Like, the older cats are like, y'all weren't doing it. Like, y'all weren't going to record stores and buying, you know, vinyl and collecting vinyl. You know?

It's like, okay. You know? Or even just rap style. You know? It's just Sure.

Sure. Yeah. Like like, I think lyricism obviously is important, and it's and it's huge. But, to be able to expand on lyricism and take it in different directions, like Absolutely. Like, that should be allowable.

You should oh, no. You're all good. Good. Is that an alarm? It's an alarm.

Yeah. I gotta go. I gotta five minutes. Alright. He got five minutes.

Yeah. So, let I was going to end it with another song, but I'm thinking maybe because you are somebody who's very respected in, the Denver scene in hip hop, you know, like, in in somebody who has made a name for themselves and taken it. And so I think it's important for people to hear, like, how do you how did you make the transition from, like, this is just something that I am that I'm going to do for fun because I respect it and I love it and, like, it gives me a voice to, like, oh, I can actually build a a life for myself out of this. You know, I mean, I just did it, and I, you know, I'm a I'm a healer Mhmm. Massage.

Yeah. A verbal a verbal Reiki. A verbal Reiki. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So, like, you know, I I and I just wanted, like, the healing arts with the music. And and the healing healing arts is a good, like, you know, foundation for, like, getting income and, you know, like, I mean, it's like you do things for people just like music. You give people give you give them kind of, like, these good feelings, you know, kind of enlightenment or whatever. You spread your your message, and that's, like, a valuable thing.

So you just have to kinda keep your keep awareness of the value that you put out, you know, and believe in the value. Yeah. You know? And it's, like, do things that are valuable, that people can actually use. You know?

Like, when I think about, like, my favorite songs, it's like they do something for me. You know? Yeah. It's like and I try to create that kind of thing. And, you know, I'm not the best you know?

It's hard for me to put my music hustle game on because I feel like it taints it. Like, I I got sponsored at skateboarding Mhmm. And it burnt me out. Really? Yeah.

Like, I was getting it was just like all this, like, wrong reason kind of thing. And so, like, I've always kinda kept music sacred. And I think, like, if you it's like you get too much in your ego to think, oh, I need to be this person, this fame, and you get disappointed. And and you go up and down and, like, you it just kind of it kinda fucks with your music. And so, like, I just really try to keep the music sacred and just, like, do it to do it.

Do it do it to, you know, to be loving and to be giving and, you know, and trust. It's like having faith, you know? Just having faith that, like, what you're doing is valuable because you're coming with the right reason, you know, versus, like, I gotta prove that I'm valuable. You know what I mean? Like, just be just make your shit tight, you know, skills and, you know, just stay on your skills.

And and and I think, you know, have a faith that that's gonna keep you sustained in this life. You know? Right. And then the the working hard mentality just comes with the fact that you love this art and, like, it hasn't been tainted for you Right. By by the business or by the money.

And so, like, you're able to stay up late at night and work on it Yeah. Like you were just saying at the beginning because you love it. And And be present. And be present in it. Because, like, when you're when you're thinking of the future Mhmm.

Like, oh, I'm not gonna am I gonna make it? You're not being present. Like, if you're, like, in the booth recording your lyrics and you're like, oh, I can't wait till I blow up. Right. Yeah.

It's just gonna be wack. You know what I mean? Like, you you sound like a like a wannabe. Like, you're not gonna be sincere in, like, what you're doing right there. So, like, I think trusting in the very moment.

Yeah. You know, putting your integrity in that versus, like, your integrity in the future is having that trust. And, like, you know, I'm older now, so I've seen it. Mhmm. You know what I'm saying?

I've seen it happen, so, like, I had trust in in it more. Right. I think it's, you know, like, as for youth, you know, everybody has this every successful person has their, like, kind of manifesto. Right? They've written what they how they wanna live and what they expect.

And when they're successful, they look back at those, you know, manifestations, and they're like, oh, shit. Everything came true. Yeah. Because, like, you you know, you you definitely have to, like, project yourself and be like, this is where I wanna be. I do that.

I got certain things I wanna have, you know, that I'm I put down, but I'm just in the present moment working towards it. Right. You know what I'm saying? Don't worry about, like, when it happens. Or how it's gonna be.

Integrity every moment that you have, like, whether you're writing lyrics or writing beats or, like, you know, you're trying to book a show or you know what I'm saying? Like, you just everything just has to be integrity in the moment. Right. It's bringing that to people. People recognize that and they think, like, I trust in that.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, that's and that's it's hard, like, for you to trust, but it you know, like, that's why I think elders are important. It's like, it works. Mhmm.

I'm telling you it works. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, just trust. Just believe.

Just trust. Just believe. Yeah. So Yeah. Definitely a lot of inspiration in that, in that sort of sense that I've gotten just from doing this podcast and talking with people like you and Acuna and Felix and, you know, like yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Like brothers, man. Yeah. Yeah.

Which before we go, I just wanted to say I think it's so funny that all of you three were b boys because you guys are also tall and lanky. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's so there must just be a thing that makes, makes breaking more easy. You know?

I guess, man. Yeah. I guess. Yeah. Alright.

Well, Choose Love out now, on all platforms? Yes. Yeah. On streaming platforms. On all streaming platforms.

Also, you know, go support Baba. Go buy that on Bandcamp. It was self produced. Correct? Self produced.

Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Alright. I'll probably end it with the with the song, but we won't go on because I need, like, diving into it.

So I know you gotta get out of here. You got family. Thank you for coming in. Appreciate you very much. Yeah.

Thank you to Baba Fly, and thank you to Youth On Record as always for opening your doors to me and to us and to letting us record here. Please be sure to come check out the programs that they offer, including their open labs. And, thank you to Jesus Rodriguez for, your support and your engineering as always. Appreciate you, brother. Please be sure to go check out fm,thenumberfour,fp.com.

That's free music for free people's website. Lots of great content that, you can subscribe to. Thank you guys for tuning in. Appreciate all y'all. Love you.