Meet Smiley Gatmouth

In this episode of Let’s Get Bizzy, your boy Juice Bizzy sits down with the one and only Smiley Gatmouth to talk about the highs and lows of being an independent artist. From SoundCloud running ads on his music without paying him to the struggles of monetizing art in a rapidly changing industry, Smiley shares his frustrations and insights on navigating the creative world.

We dive into his origins as a poet and rapper, the impact of gentrification on his hometown, and the internal battles that come with balancing artistry, financial pressures, and self-doubt. Smiley also reflects on his time in college, traveling the world, and the personal growth that came with it—all while dropping gems about the importance of community, patience, and staying true to your craft.

Plus, we talk about his classic album Carousel, the inspiration behind his track Home, and whether he’s finally ready to drop a remastered version. If you’re an artist trying to figure out how to make a living off your passion, this one’s for you.

🔥 Topics Covered:

• SoundCloud running ads on artists’ music without paying them
• The challenges of monetizing music as an independent artist
• Smiley’s journey from slam poetry to hip-hop
• Gentrification, community, and the changing face of Denver
• The internal battle between art, financial stability, and self-worth
• Smiley’s time in Brooklyn, Italy, and Madison—and how those places shaped him
• The creation of Carousel and the meaning behind Home
• Finding balance between art, life, and mental health

🎧 Tune in now and don’t forget to support independent artists!

📢 Shoutouts: Free Music for Free People (fm4fp.com) | Youth On Record | Jesus Rodriguez (Mixing & Engineering)

Transcript

Yeah, dude. That's fucked up. You should monetize. I don't know how. How do you do that?

Through for SoundCloud? I'm not actually sure. You probably have to go through SoundCloud directly. Wait. That was not my SoundCloud they put an ad?

Yeah. That's fucked up. Yeah. Especially that's because they that song has over 11,000 plays. And so if you were making money off of every advertisement, you can gain a little bit of Well, that's fucked up.

Yeah. What do I need to do? Go go do SoundCloud Pro or something? I don't know. Shit.

I don't know, dude. We'll look into it, though. SoundCloud, we want the answers. SoundCloud. When you hear this Yeah.

Let's just start it off right now. Welcome to another episode of Let's Get Busy with your boy Juice Busy. Today, we're joined by Smiley Gapmouth. Good. And we're mad at SoundCloud right now because they are they're monetizing Smiley's music without paying them for it.

Yeah. They just played the ad before my shit. I was like, I never got a fucking set from anyone. Yeah. What the fuck is that about?

I didn't even I didn't even know they were playing an ad on the SoundCloud now. Oh, yeah, dude. Because I have the SoundCloud Pro for, like, being able to well, maybe not maybe it's not Pro, but because they have different options. They like as a creator, you can pay for SoundCloud, and then that gives you, like, more upload time. But then if you pay for it as a listener, that's, like, what a different plan.

Mhmm. And that gets rid of the advertisements. But I don't pay for that. I just pay for having enough upload time and shit. So that's why they still play ads online because I don't pay for them to get rid of the ads.

They're like, even though you're already paying us fucking $12 a month, you still gotta pay us another 7 if you don't want the ads on there. Well, where's my $12 a month? SoundCloud advertising all my shit. What the fuck? That's a couple packs of cigarettes for Smiley.

Keep him in the writing zone. Goddamn. Alright. We gotta also say thank you to Youth On Record for letting us in the doors and, giving us a spot to record today. And I think I wanna plug oh, thank you to Jesus Rodriguez, of course, always.

And, I wanna plug, the Free Music for Free People website right off the top because just in case you guys don't stick around for the whole episode even though you should. But, yeah, go to fm,thenumberfour,fp.com and, get in touch with Free Music for Free People and Free People TV. We got a lot of content coming out lately, and we're doing carpet sessions. The latest one that just released this week, was with Kayla Marquis, and, it's beautiful. We got one with Random Temple.

We were doing those a while ago, but we're bringing them back. Did you ever get a carpet session back in the day when we were doing them? No? Yeah. So we're bringing those back.

So go to the website. Check those out. We got a bunch of other segments from Free People TV that are good to look into. And make sure you subscribe to our newsletter through your email so that you can get early releases and all that good stuff. Alright.

So, yeah, fuck SoundCloud for that. But, you know, it's okay. I was actually, like, listening to your album this week, and the advertisements were playing through it. And I was and I was hoping that you were getting paid for them. Nah.

What the fuck? Dude. Anyway, we won't dwell on it too long, but we will reach out to them and see what the hell is going on with that because that's not cool. I was actually, talking to the panel. Oh, yeah.

I graduated the fellowship yesterday. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. So I was talking to the panel, telling them that, like, getting involved with protecting artists through, publishing and copywriting and and, trademarking and, even just, like, shysty promoters is, like, something that I really wanna get involved in.

So, it's probably what I'm gonna be using the funding for is, like, getting in touch with lawyers and sitting down with them and seeing, like, the best way to go about that. That's true. Yeah. But what what were you up to yesterday? Was yesterday you didn't yes.

Yesterday, Saturday? Mhmm. I don't know. I feel kinda put on the spot. I didn't really do much yesterday.

I was messing around with machine, and, I did most of the dishes. There were a lot of dishes, so that might not sound like a big deal. But there were a lot of fucking dishes. Yeah. You let them pile up.

Oh, yeah. Dude, that's how I'm feeling about my laundry right now. I got a shit ton of yeah. I got too much laundry piled up. Yeah.

I just got too many clothes in general. Yeah. I have all my clean ones in the hamper not put away, and then I have all the dirty ones just in on the floor of my closet that need to get done. Yeah. I feel like ludicrous out here.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Why do you feel like ludicrous? I got clothes. You know what I'm saying?

God, that was a reach. But I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you though. Oh, man. Alright.

Yeah. So I'm gonna be careful because, like, the last time I had, like, somebody that I would consider a friend on here, it got kind of and the conversation got, like, out of hand. Like, it just kinda Just catching up online. Yeah. Yeah.

Just, like, all that. So we're gonna I'm gonna try to be careful and steer this in the right direction. But, Smiley is a good friend. I've known him for, a while, but we recently just started, like, doing some work together on your shows, the secret recipe showcase and getting involved with each other more now that I've been down here at Youth on Record. And that's been great for me because I like I was telling you, before, back in 02/2014 when I was, like, just starting to perfect my craft, like, I was looking up to you for sure.

Like, looking at the way that you were riding and that you were flowing and, like, wanting to get to that level. So, I'm grateful to have you on the podcast today and just give you a platform to, you know, talk a little bit about yourself and put yourself out there a little bit more in, maybe not such a profoundly poetic way that you usually do. You know? But yeah. So why don't you give us a little little backstory?

Like, how did you first start writing or getting involved with music? Well, you know, it definitely was something I was, like, interested in from as long as I can remember. You know, I remember, like, a a fifth grade, like, freestyling and writing on the back of school bus. He's, like, trifling ass raps. Mhmm.

But how I got involved in it kinda seriously, it really started when I was in eighth grade. I was about to leave my school and go to this this crazy hippie school called Jefferson County Open School, but I was doing my regular middle school. And, you know, I was going to new school because I was really, like, I wasn't well, school wasn't really working for me, you know. I would, I would talk a lot of shit, you know, in class. And my English teacher had kind of, like, was on the fence about me.

Like, she she liked me. She didn't like me depending on the day. Like, she liked me, but she would always make me go sit at the front of the class, like, up against the wall and and all that. But she I don't know. She saw something in me.

And so one day, it was, like, we I think it was during, like, CSAP, which is the old, like, standardized testing. And, we I had, I had finished my thing earlier, whatever. And so they would go around and they would pass, like, these, like, you know, these educational teen magazines, like Time Kids and stuff like that. Mhmm. But she got to and I remember this.

She got to my desk and she was she she was about to give me one and then she's like, no, hold up. And she sifted through them. Right? And she pulled out one on, Youth Speaks and Slam Poetry, and she gave it to me. And I was looking through it, and I was like it was kind of funny because I was like, oh my god.

This is the corniest shit I've ever seen in my life. You would not catch me dead doing a slam poetry. And then so, you know, whatever. I forgot about it for a while. I went to my new school and it's the first day at my new school and, this place was crazy.

Like, I'm walking around. There's kids playing hacky sack in the hall. There's people playing music in the hall. Like, I'm talking, like, full, like, upright bass. Like, just like you know what I'm saying?

People are running around. It's a ruckus. It's kinda like that, that movie Accepted, if you've ever seen it, but, like, the highest k through 12 version. And so I'm just like, I wanna get out there to that riot that's happening in the hallway and see what that's all about, but I had to fill out my schedule first. Okay.

And it was taking a while, and I saw that Slam Poetry was on the, was on the thing, and I I couldn't remember, like, where that had rang a bell from, but it just rang a bell. So I was like, fuck it. I put it down. And it by the time I realized that it was that same thing that I thought was looked all corny before, I was already into it. And so I ended up, you know, going down to, like, a lot of the different, like, events in Denver.

My first open mic was actually Cafe Gautre at the the parish. They just closed down a little bit ago. And then but I would go to the the slams. So that, I'd go to the youth slam a lot at the Mercury Cafe. Well, I go to all of them, but the youth slam especially.

And, you know, that's what how I got, more heavily into the arts and writing. You know, at first, I was kinda just, like, wrapping up there, like, it wasn't common to rhyme, but all my stuff would rhyme, at first. And, you know, I was go I got on a couple teams, ended up going out to Brave New Voices and and doing that youth speaks festival that I had been reading about, that I had read about at this point so many years ago. And, yeah, that's how I got heavy into it because just that community really kind of embraced me, and, that was a good place to be. And it was definitely, like like, my people.

And so, and yeah. And school was, like, rocky, but it ended up kinda taking an unexpected turn because I ended up getting, like, a scholarship. It's called First Wave, which was like it was like a full scholarship to the University of Wisconsin for, urban arts, they call it. It's mostly, poets and, and rappers, and there's also some, like, break dancers, graffiti artists, and stuff that get up in there. And, yeah, that was I guess, it's kind of a it was kind of a long story, but what really got me hooked in was the poetry community.

And then it was through there that I met, Stephen Brackett, and he was the one who actually convinced me to start rapping. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. That's nice.

I I had, like, the opposite where I, like, got involved with rapping first and then got introduced to the sign poetry in the open mics, through Cafe Kultura as well. Oh, yeah. And that was always I always felt kinda like how you're saying it was it's it's not common to go up there and rhyme and, like, spit these these raps in in these, in these poetic forms. And so, like, I always kinda felt like not singled out by the crowd, but by my own doing, you know, like, oh, I separated myself from the other poets that were up there. So it's hard for me to feel comfortable on those stages a lot of the time.

But, yeah, that was it was definitely like watching these people, deliver their poems in other sorts of ways that I was not used to is very inspiring and, like, definitely helped me form my craft as well. Yeah. I think it was really good for me because I don't know. Because I think that the way I write rhymes is like pretty poetic. And I don't know if for sure.

I don't know if you had like that kind of level of like imagery and stuff like that would would be in there if I hadn't if I hadn't gotten involved so heavily in the poetry stuff. But I think that in the long run ended up kinda making me stand out in stand out a bit in, like, certain ways at least, you know, within the poetry within the rap thing, you know, it was it was, I just kinda came into it with a different voice, I think. Yeah. Is that how you met Hoser to the poetry? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I met Hoser at Cafe Kotor over there. Yeah. I remember he had shot he he had, the first thing, he was sitting in front of me at the thing, and and I was always right I carried around a notebook at the time, and so I asked him if I could borrow a pen.

He's like like, hell yeah, dog or something like that. He gave me a pen, and then the rest is history. You know? Yeah. That's cool.

What about or me and yeah. I think me and Diego met you probably around the same time. Diego's the one who put me on to your music, though. You're like Well, no. I didn't meet Diego except for a few years later.

So this is back when I was, like, 14, you know? Yeah. But I met Diego after I was already out there in college, but I was back. It was like Yeah. I was probably 19 or something by then.

What did you go to college for? Free. I mean, that's I mean, I I I studied I just they just sent me my degree. I need to look at it and see what it says, but I studied You don't even know what the degree says. No.

I studied I studied communication arts with the radio, TV, film emphasis and, ChicanoLatina studies. But really, I was just out there for the because it's a bunch of money, you know, which was probably I think it taught me a big lesson about following money over, like like, I didn't have a good time in college, and I think that it it was because I I was really only there because they were like, here's a bunch of money. And I was like, yeah, that sounds tight. I'd dedicate five years of my life to that. And don't get me wrong, like, a lot of dope stuff came out of it.

You know, I got to travel a lot and, learned a lot, met some great people. You know, shout outs to first wave people. But, yeah, overall, it was like I wasn't interested in college and it kind of, eventually took a toll, you know, living living like that, you know, I was living for so long and spending all my time in a place that I didn't really feel like I belonged. Yeah. Because you went to Boulder?

No. No. No. No? It was Wisconsin.

Oh, you went to Wisconsin? Yeah. Madison, Wisconsin, which is often it's a lot like people say it's like Boulder. Okay. But, yeah, in a place where I didn't really belong and, like, spending all my time doing something that I wasn't passionate about, you know, just, like anyway, I left I left college pretty unwell mentally.

It took me and it's it's been a process kinda, like, coming back to myself and and, you know, it really stifled stifled the art too, which was ironic. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because I went out there thinking that it was this is like how I was gonna get on, you know. And who knows what would have happened, you know.

You know, I could use grass as always greener, but but, yeah, it was pretty stifling. I mean, for one, because I like I said, I went to this crazy, like, hippie school, like, we didn't have grades. I never took math. I really wasn't even supposed to get into college. I could finally tell the story now that I have my degree.

Okay. Yeah. Let's do it. Yeah. I was gonna do it.

So what had happened? So, okay. So my school I don't know if I'm gonna put them on put them on blast. Just don't say the name of it. Just don't say the name of the school.

I think I already did. Okay. Did he? I was I don't think he did. Well, I was in a situation where, basically, long story short, I had a really good artistic application.

I did not have a strong academic application because you and because it's a pretty rigorous school. Mhmm. And, like, in high school, I never took a math class. Well, no, I took life skills math. I took one block of math, but I never took a science class.

All my, like, English classes was poetry shit I did on my own. In high school? Yeah. Okay. And the University of Wisconsin is a pretty rigorous school.

But, you know, you kinda you kinda I kinda phrase things a certain way. Like, you know, I did I went up and did an internship for some science credit at at CU where my brother was going to school. And, like, I went up there a few times and, like, he it was just like a he was just doing some work for some, like, somebody who's doing an experiment. He's basically just feeding caterpillars, like, different grasses and then crushing them to death and ex making, like, this caterpillar extract. And I was just watching him do it, but that was, like, high school science.

You know what I'm saying? So the numbers the numbers were all kind of fudged in the first place. Right? You know, as I phrased things on my transcripts, like, I was like, oh, yeah. Like, college level I did college level science.

You know what I'm saying? Oh, shit. Yeah. But still, though, even with all that, you know, they were like, okay. We will let you in if you take, like, something like three semesters of foreign language and two semesters of math before you get in.

And I was like, okay. And then I didn't do that shit. But basically how it works is that, like, you send your transcripts at the beginning or, like, early on in, like, your senior year, and then they they need you to follow-up with some more transcripts later, to prove that you, like, did all your requirements. So it came down to it and, like, I hadn't done those classes that they wanted me to do, you know, like and so we would we just kinda decided, like, you know, I think the safest bet is, like, let's just not send in the second wave of transcripts. And then So let's see what happens?

Yeah. And let's see what happens. Right? And so ordinarily, what would happen is I would have a hold on my account, so I wouldn't have been able to register for classes. However, because of the scholarship that I was on, I had to go to this thing called SCE, the Summer Collegiate Experience, which meant that I would like, a week after I graduated high school, I moved to Wisconsin.

And it also meant that I registered for my classes early. So I registered for my first round of classes before that hold would have gone on my account. And then basically on my transcripts, it said that I had all those credits that I didn't have. So anyway, I wasn't even supposed to be there in the first place. That's crazy.

Yeah. And then so, so anyway, that shit was just not for me and it was it was I don't remember where I was going with that, but yeah. I'd say all the kids fuck college. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Well, what was the scholarship that you want for people who do like college? Yeah. No. I'm just kidding. Not all the kids.

I'm just saying, you know, just do what you do what you because I knew Asher. I knew Asher. I, like, I knew in my heart Uh-huh. That that wasn't the move for me. But my scholarship, it was called it's called First Wave.

It still exists. It's a it's called an urban art scholarship. It's, you know, a lot of poets, rappers. I think they've expanded kind of like like what you get in for since I went there. I I know that when I was on the way out, there was some younger people.

There was a comedian that was in there for comedy. Mhmm. I think it's changed a bit a lot as it's a small scholarship and so, you know, small things. But they gave you a lot. Right?

Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. And I had, like, you know, what they call it zero EFC, which meant that my FAFSA was stacked. So, basically, once I started college, I made more money than my mom.

You know what I'm saying? Just for going. So I felt like, yeah. This is the life. But I shoulda well, who knows what I shoulda done?

I'm here I'm here now. You're here now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you look to be in a pretty good spot.

You're married. You fucking working here at youth. Yeah. I feel pretty good about things. Good.

Yeah. But while I was in school, I didn't like that was one thing about it. It's, like, I really, like, consumed a lot of ideas and internalized a lot of ideas that weren't my own that I didn't like. You know, like, I when I went into college, I remember my goal. I was like, alright.

I'm a spend these next few years just trying to set myself up so I can be a professional artist, and I don't need to be, like, a big deal or anything. Because my mom was an artist too, and she did not make a lot of money. Mhmm. It was just like, I just wanna be able to do my thing and not have to do some something that I don't care about, you know. Yeah.

And, you know, in college, I just, like, internalized all these other ideas, though. And then all of a sudden, I started getting really hung up on things I didn't even care about. Like, I felt like I needed to make a bunch of money and be, like, a big shot and all this stuff. And the more important that became to me, the harder it became to just do anything like finish a song, you know. And that I still haven't really gotten over it.

I'm still pretty I think I was still fairly stifled in that way. Part of it is just though because now I have, like because, you know, it's hard to explain, I guess. I just had, like, this yeah. It felt like that that my shit wasn't valid if I wasn't famous or something like that. And so I was just really insecure about everything I put out.

I mean, that's why it took so long for Carousel, my album, to come out. I mean, that shit was done for, like, a year before it came out. And that's why there hasn't really been a lot of music since. It was just but at the same time, I'm I'm sitting on this, like, stacks and stacks because I wrote every single day. You know, I wrote more than anybody I knew.

While you were in college? Mhmm. And so I and so now, I guess, part of the thing I I struggle with is just it's too much stuff that I wanna, like, put out and I just get distracted. Yeah. But, yeah, I would say that, so for me, it wasn't a good thing.

When did you graduate? I graduated in 02/2011, but I just got my degree, like, like, a month ago. Yeah. And but you moved back here, after you graduated immediately? Yes.

Yeah. I moved back here. Damn. You're class of 02/2007 for high school? No way.

I graduated high school in February You graduated February When did I graduate college? What year is it? I graduated college in in 02/2016, December '2 thousand '16. I was gonna say, I don't think you're that old. No.

Not at all. I'm not that old. Yeah. Alright. Okay.

So because I remember you coming down to Gypsy House, and that had to be 02/2014, '2 thousand '15. So you must have, like, just been here, on, like, a vacation or something. Well, yeah. I would come back for breaks. I would I also took some time off school Mhmm.

Because it just got too it got too much. Like, I didn't wanna do it anymore. And so I spent a few months back. Well, I traveled a little bit. I spent the rest of my FAFSA money, traveling on the on, like, the West Coast.

And then, and then I spent a little bit of time here. And then I wasn't sure if I was gonna go back or not, but my school had this partnership with, Pod ninety seven out in New York. Mhmm. And so I applied for that and ended up getting it. And in order to take it, I had to go back to school, but I was I always wanted to live in New York, so I was like, I took it, you know, went back and then struggled my way through school.

Graduated just as illegitimately as I got in and then yeah. Maybe I went back. Yeah. Word. Fucking beating the system.

That's the story of smiley, gap mouth. Alright. So there's a lot of things that I wanna focus on, that you touched on. The first one being that you said your mom was an artist and didn't make a lot of money. So were you were you raised in poverty?

And, like, you saw that, like, the arts don't necessarily make a lot of money, but you wanted to do them anyway? Yes. I mean, yes and no. To be fair, I had a pretty complicated upbringing. Well, one I mean, a lot of stuff happened, you know, but one, my parents were divorced, and they had split custody of of me.

Mhmm. And there was a lot of, like, moving around. They were also both at different times in very different, you know, positions, like like, financially. And so yeah. I I mean, there was the yeah.

Definitely. Yes. But I don't wanna make it seem like that was all there was to it because Right. Of course. It was also Of course.

I had a strange strange upbringing where I I got to see a lot of things. But that definitely included significant and really, in what do you call it? Formative experiences with yeah. I mean, my mom being being an artist, yeah, definitely living in poverty, but but doing the art thing. And and, yeah, me wanting to do that too.

Yeah. That was always more important. Like, you were like, well, at least she gets to do what it is that she wants to do Yeah. Rather than fucking struggling through this nine to five just to provide. And that always attracted you more.

That's cool. Because because she said I mean, she spent some time so she had gotten hit by a car. She had, like, a traumatic brain injury Yeah. And stuff like that, and it made things very difficult. And so it kind of also put, like, it hurt her art career.

Like, it's she she got back to being a full time artist after a while, but she couldn't do it, for a while, like, when she for a few years after when she was recovering and stuff. And so she was she was, like, a checker at Wild Oats, which later got bought out by Whole Foods and also at Safeway. And she just she hated it. She was just, like, miserable. And, you know, my dad, he never had a job as long as well, no.

He I guess, he delivered for Pizza Hut when I was when I was a little kid, but but he would deliver stuff. But he was he was self employed too, though, so he could he would be a contractor so he could make his own hours, and he didn't like Mhmm. Having a boss either. So I guess between both of my parents, yeah, I was just like all the role models I had, they were just like fuck working, like, a regular job, like, at all costs, you know. Yeah.

That's how I feel right now. Yeah. And I work a regular job, and I'm like, I I wanted fucking I want my own schedule. Like, I just want my own time. And, man, I, like, I was raised with the idea of, like like, no.

You gotta fucking you gotta go to college. You gotta fucking get your regular job. You gotta, you know, you gotta provide. And then maybe if you do this shit on this your music on the side long enough, maybe you'll start to get noticed and fucking become famous one day, and that's when you can focus on it full time. So that was the approach that I had for a long time.

But then I went to college. And after semester, I was like, I'm not. I don't wanna do this. You know? Like, I and a big part of that was just because I was on a lot of dope at the time, and I wanted to focus more on getting high than I wanted to go to school.

But the then when I look back on it, like, everybody that I talked to who was in the same program was like, it's a waste of time and money. Like, you can just learn what you need to learn by being in the music industry. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So, yeah, I just wanted to, focus on that a little bit because I think that's important, like, to to tell people that it's okay to pursue art full time as a business and, like, as a career because that's not something that I get told or I was told as a kid, and I don't think that many people do get told. But it's just like anything else, like, with starting your own business. You know, it's gonna be a struggle, and it's gonna take a while. But it's but it's possible, like, to provide for yourself through art. Yeah.

And I think that's one thing that's been really important, but also difficult for me to accept with all of it in general is that just like it does take time. Very few people blow up overnight and most of the ones that do, like, there's not a solid foundation, so it doesn't it's just quick burnout, you know. I think patience is definitely a virtue with this with with with anything, but, yeah, especially if if you wanna be if you wanna do something you're passionate about for a living. Mhmm. Then the other thing that I wanted to focus on was you said while you were in college, you started focusing more on money and other situations that, like, took you away from your craft.

Well, like because I went through that as well, not with being focused on money, but being focused on, getting high. Like, I went for a few years without creating anything. And then, once I stopped using drugs and shit, like, even coming back into writing afterwards, like, you're talking about with coming back into music, after college was, like, a struggle and has still been a struggle. That's been the same experience for me, like, after I gave it up for even just a year or two, coming back into it has been it's just starting to, like, start to roll pretty smoothly. You know?

So why don't you speak a little bit more to that on, like, what what happened to get you distracted and what the process has been like Were there back? Yeah. There was a lot of factors, you know. I mean, one of part of it was just, like, yeah, where I was coming from with it, I think, at the end of the day. Because I started to get more and more preoccupied with, like, the notions of success, which wasn't important wasn't that important to me at the beginning, and it had a negative impact, you know.

Because, like, when I was, like, making the art because for, I guess, like, what you maybe say, like, are pure reasons or, like, you know, making it because, like, I wanted to make something dope or, like, I wanted to, I had something I wanted to express, it was a lot better. But once I started to get preoccupied with the idea of, like, okay, well, I better get famous in the next couple years because college is gonna be over. Yeah. My the quality of the art just began to really deteriorate, and I couldn't finish anything. And I was just, like, I was so so, like, overly critical of myself.

It was just like I couldn't even I couldn't even finish writing a sentence before I was, like, editing it. And it and also though, I mean, the substances had to do with that for sure. I mean, like, where I was going to school, it was a big drinking town. And I wasn't really that into drinking when I, like, when I went into college. In fact, I remember, like, as I was leaving, I was kinda I like to smoke weed, but I was kinda overdrinking because I drank a lot in high school.

But that place just has an alcoholic culture that just, like, is encouraged to just be, like, rampantly alcoholic. And as I was I was getting pretty, like, deep into some depression and stuff for, like, a number of Mhmm. Of reasons, you know. I think a lot of it had to do with just the fact that I was dedicating my life to things that were important to me. But, you know, so that was a factor too.

I mean, by the end, you know, I was drinking every day and, you know, I'm a lot better now, but but, I mean, that didn't help. That didn't help at all, you know. Is that what bottomless is about? Yeah. Yeah.

Also though, interestingly enough, I had started writing Bottomless about something else. Actually, you know Bottomless was almost home, like, like the beat for I actually started Bottomless over the beat for home. Mhmm. Then it was about, it was more thinking about my stepmom. But but by the time that but that was but, you know, it takes me sometimes, like, years to finish a song, at least, like, from the time there's the initial idea.

And so its meeting definitely changed. And, yeah, that was what Badmush was about. I was pretty deep in it when I wrote that song and for a couple years after. Especially when I lived in Europe because you could just go buy beer and, like, drink it as you walk down the street, you know. So Yeah.

Even though, you know, moving out there for a little bit, it it was nice to be away from, Madison. It wasn't a good time for me to go because I was already just, like, struggling with, like, alcoholism, frankly. And and the end, just it was so accessible there. Like, it was it was kind of impossible to, like, remove myself from, like, the the constant temptation. But, yeah, Bottomless was about was about that.

And then, but, yeah, I'm I'm a lot better now largely because I think it has a lot to do with my wife, but but also just the community in general that's holding me down here and, yeah. Has, getting back involved with the community helped with the depression? Yeah. I mean, I'm a great I'm way better than I was then, like, mentally. Like, I'm not I wouldn't say that I'm really dealing with depression now.

I mean, there's times, especially on the occasions when I do still drink when I kinda feel that that type of, like, sorrow, like, kinda creep back in. But it's no way like it was, like, back then, you know, like because, you know, when I was, like, you know, in 02/2014 or something like that, like, I would I would sleep for twenty four hours, like Holy shit. Like, just, like, on the regular, you know. And, like, and, like, like, it was it was yeah. It was a different situation.

I mean, I got let's say, like, I don't use it lightly. I still have some some, you know, you know, sadness and, like, issues that I deal with out here now, but it's not it's not, I I wouldn't say I'm I'm depressed. Right. Sorry if I'm distracting. No.

It's alright. It's alright. I wanna get, some footage for post and stuff. That's all. Okay.

That looks good. Oh, that's a picture. Yeah. I have, I asked that because getting back involved with the community through Youth on Record and this podcast especially and and, like, just starting to do shows and and see the people that, like, I lost touch with has definitely helped with, the depression that I was going through. Because even after I got off the shit and, like, had my daughter and everything was going well, it was like there was still this piece of me that was missing.

And it was because I wasn't riding as much. I wasn't involved with the community is at all. And, like, there's a real sense of purpose that I get from being involved. You know? And so it's just been it's been a year of coming into myself and, like, finally starting to feel comfortable and and grateful again.

And so now that the fellowship's over, like, I'm just excited to to just stay involved, and continue to make music and do shows and stuff. Like, even in small ways with being a judge for your open mic tonight or whatever, like, that's gonna be dope. But yeah. So I just wanted to focus on that as well because I think that that's something that's pretty common with artists. Like, it's okay to go through these hiatuses.

And I didn't I didn't understand that. Like, I thought that I had to, like, constantly be creating at all times. Otherwise, I wasn't an artist. Like and I didn't actually deserve the shit that I was looking for. And that's not true.

Like, sometimes you just gotta learn a little bit about yourself and go through some situations. Now, what were you in Europe for though? Oh, I finished school at that. I hope I'm officially graduated, but but I am. It's cool.

I must be. They sent me my They sent your degree, bro. I was in I I was in Europe to finish school. So basically so as a result of that situation that I had described really about how I got into school, my transcript said that I had, like, a certain amount of, like, foreign language, specifically Spanish. And I needed a little bit more to graduate.

Now, I would have loved to learn Spanish, you know, for the context in which I live that'd be the best language to learn. However, you know, foreign language was always really hard to me. And if I had started Spanish, they would've I would've had to take a placement test and I would've lost all that retroactive credit. So I so I had to well, I felt like I had to pick a different language to go learn, so I picked Italian. And so, like I think I started like my sophomore year or something like that taking Italian and I sucked at foreign language.

Like like I said, I was bad at it. Like I barely got through those first couple, semesters of it. Then I took a couple years off from, you know, I took some time off school and then I didn't get back to it. Anyway, that was the last thing I needed to graduate was was like intermediate Italian. And I knew that shit wasn't gonna happen taking it in like, in The US.

Plus, I had always meant to study, to study abroad because on with my scholarship, I could go anywhere I wanted for free. And honestly, I'm an idiot for not spending for not spending, like, every semester in a different country because I could have. And and and that's why I would say, kids, if you could study abroad, do it as much as possible because that's the tits, you know. But so anyway, I was like, I'm gonna go to Italy because maybe at least if I'm immersed out there in language and culture, I'll be able to learn it, which was kind of what happened. Kind of?

You're talking with your hands now. So I know. I know. No. But but what had actually kind of made well, are people gonna hear this?

I don't know. I'm not really famous. People aren't staying up. I don't know. Okay.

But what had what had ended up happening is sort of, like, I immersed myself in the culture and I made some good friends, you know, that were Italian and, they helped me out a bit. With with graduating with your fucking exams? Mhmm. Nice, dude. That's incredible.

A large bit. Do you A lot. I really I really hope they don't take your degree away from the from you for this. Yeah. That would that would be a shame, No.

It's no big deal. I mean, you're here now. And I like, I don't I don't think they can lock you up for it, so I'm sure it'd be fine. Yeah. I'm Yeah.

Yeah. That's hilarious. So did they take the test for you, and they just gave you the answers? No. No.

No. No. It wasn't like that. So it was man. I'm really conflicted because I don't wanna I don't know.

Dude, it's all about vulnerability up here. I would say just, you know, they they they offered a lot of, support. It's a man you're a man of mystery. Always talking in codes, dude. Yeah.

I mean, I don't wanna get too too too much into that, but they, you know, I got by with a little help from my friends to quote, well well, bring a Ringo Starr. Yeah. Whoever sent that. Yeah. Yeah.

We'll give it to Ringo Starr. Hopefully, that's correct. Alright. Well, that's impressive, man. Like, just you are trifling.

A % you're trifling. Yeah. When did you start writing Carousel? Well, let's see. The first song that I wrote after was home.

When was this exactly? So and the sixth and seventh. Eleven, '12, '13, '2 thousand '13 or 02/2014 or so, I got hit up by a homie Brent. He went he went by Ralph Lazo at the time. I was on Wisconsin.

And I was I was actually when he called me, I was with my friend Garrett, and we were on, lynda.com, learning about how to record. It was not going well. It was like, it was hard. I was looking at some microphones, like, trying to set up I had to figure out how to set up an interface and stuff like that. And he called me and he's like, yo, I have a recording studio.

You I wanna produce, you you you wanna I wanna produce an album for you. And I was like, okay. Tight. So the next time I was home, I went and I recorded the song Home. And then that went good.

It felt real good. And then after that, I came back for a winter break, I believe it was, because we recorded that whole album. Like, it was tight. Because, like, you know, we only had the chance to record, like, when I was back in town, and so we did the whole thing in, like, in, like, two weeks. Mhmm.

Yeah. So did he help, like, with the creative process as well, or did he just he just, record you? Because that's what I find the most fascinating about the album is, like, it's so it's not just songs. Right? Like, it's not just verses on top of tracks.

Like, it's it seems very strategic and and and creative, like, the way that it's not only laid out, but each individual song is laid out. You know, like, just home in general is such a creative song. Like, the the dubs and the ad libs and, like, the breaks, in that one song that, the, Nash is featured on about the trailer park. Like, the way that, like, that song breaks up and I I'm just I'm always amazed by the creativity. So did he help with that creative process as well, or was that mostly just, like, your creation?

Well, no. He definitely was part of the creative process. I don't think necessarily that the in a specific way is the the specific things that you're talking about because in terms of the writing, I mean, with the intro, like, I I mean, I consulted with him about it about it a bit. But one thing is, like, him being, like, the producer on the project, that was the last time I really had, like, a solid, like, director or something like that. Because part of it was just, like, when it comes down to it, I have a really hard time making decisions about, like, it could be this way or that way.

You know, any song I usually have, like, five different versions I wrote. And And I get in the studio and each time I do it a little different, it makes it really difficult for the for the people producing it. But, so so one way in which he helped was he would just like he he he made decisions. He would or like he would when I was, like, between things, he would be like, no. You should just do it this way.

And, and some of the ideas that some of the sonic ideas that came from him too with, like, how, like, layers, like, stacked on top of each other. But also, he mixed and mastered the whole thing even though I actually never put the mass the master out. Yeah. I noticed. I got a each track is a different volume that I gotta put on to, like, hear it.

Yeah. Yes. I was like Yeah. That was me. I thought I'm so sloppy.

He had math mastered it, but I actually accidentally uploaded the wrong file. So I have the actual master of it, but it's it's not on the Internet. Yeah. But, but, yeah, I mean, inherently though, like the I think that that's kinda underestimated though how much creativity actually goes into that end of things because, yeah, it really does is a great deal of creativity that goes in on the back end and, it's super subjective. It's not just like this.

Like, you do all these, like, it's not like here's the formula for a good mix. I mean, that's like art in itself. Yeah. Goddamn, man. I didn't know you had to be changing the volume around this shit.

I I should probably upload those masters. Yeah. And you don't have to get you don't have to get rid of the, the originals either. You can just fucking upload the mastered version. Deluxe.

Yeah. Deluxe version. Remaster. Yeah. Yeah.

Fucking redrop that shit, and and then charge people double. Yeah. I've actually kinda mean to do that. But, You can monetize that one. Yeah, man.

SoundCloud was good. Fucking SoundCloud was so pissed at you. Who is this to speak more to who this guy is? Because I remember I have because I have the hard copy of your CD as well. And that's why I was rolling around in, some The hard copy.

That's the master. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I was rolling around in some meter, and it didn't have, like, m p three.

So I was listening to the hard copy version. And, one of the friends that I was, like, going to get breakfast with or something, she was like, she's like, oh, you know, Smiley Gapmouth? Like, my my mentor produced this album for him. So I, like, I don't know who this guy is, but, speak to to him a little bit. Like Yes.

He's a do do. So I met him back when I was in high school. He was in college. Mhmm. He was up at Fort Collins.

Back then, he went by Ralph Lazo. He's, like, looks kinda like he's in, like, a biker gang or something. He's got, like, a big old beard and all these neck tattoos and arm tattoos and stuff. But he's, like then at the same time, he's, like, a super, you know, the most well read intersectional feminist dude that I'm that I really know, that I'm aware of anyway that I know and, he is not I mean, now he's he's my boss, you know, over here at Uthon. He goes by Brent now.

This is his his his last name. Yeah. Oh, okay. I know. Dude, I didn't know you used to go by Ralph Flazon.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he made so before he was here or before he was here, like, full time, he he had his own project.

He ran artillery studios artillery studios. Mhmm. So but he was a studio. He built it in his crib, and he would, he was trying to do basically, like, like, affordable recording for working class artists. And he would he would also record he had some contracts with the city.

He would record some students on on probation, and but, yeah, you know Yeah. You know him. I love Brent. Yeah. Brent's amazing.

Okay. Yeah. What What were you thinking when I was describing him physically? Like, you didn't it didn't I started to think of Brent. And then you said Brent.

Yeah. Yeah. That that makes sense. Okay. That's kind of embarrassing that I didn't know.

So why don't you speak a little bit about like, just give a little preamble about this song that we're about to listen to. Word. So this John at Home, Part of it, I think, the initial idea was actually inspired when I was I was in Detroit for a while, and I was just soaking up the community there. And, I don't remember exactly how, but I remember that that's where some of the ideas started to the inspiration started to come out. Just, you know, Detroit is a city where there's just, like, a lot of, like, abandoned houses and stuff.

Yeah. And, like, there's definitely, and there's also, like, a great deal of, of pride and, like, home loving, like, in this in that city. Detroit, I found it to be a beautiful city. How many different places have you lived? Well, I've lived, you know, Denver area, Madison.

I've lived in Brooklyn. I lived in Florence, Italy. That's it. I didn't live in Detroit. I was You were just visiting?

Yeah. But I've but I've traveled a lot and, you know, done, like, some long stays places. That's cool. But yeah. But actually, I was but I was back here, though.

I was at Slam Nuba. I remember this was, like, 02/2013 or something like that. Mhmm. I know there were real bad, like, wildfires, like, out in, like, the rest of the state. And it was also when things were like so, you know, I mean, the gentrification, I guess, in Denver had been, like, creeping up for a while, but, you know, February That's what I was thinking.

Yeah. 02/2012, you know, when the when the we got legal, things really started to ramp up in terms of, like, how fast things were changing and stuff. Mhmm. And I remember being I went to Acad every and for me, you know, I I left in 02/2011. And so every time I came back, it would be like, right, there would be something that, like, I was like, oh, shit.

Like, that's that's new or that's or where the fuck did whatever that thing go. You know what I'm saying? Or, like, like, I remember here even, like, when I drove by and I saw that they were turning on the projects, I was like, oh, shit. I was like, what's that what's that gonna turn into? I I was sad.

You know, I had no idea that it was that it was that I was gonna still be spending time here and stuff. But so, anyway, I was up at Slam Noobah up, in Five Points, like, on Five Points proper, like, the intersection or whatever. And I remember there were two things that I observed that were that were wild. One, it was like like a white couple, like, walking like a poodle. Like, which is weird because, you know, growing up, like, it's like Yeah.

You know, 5 Points had this reputation and, you know, my experiences there was like, you know, I think it I mean, yeah, that was not some shit that you saw there. You know what I'm saying? It was not, that was not common at all. It is now. It is now.

Man, come actually, years later, man, when I came back finally came back and saw, like, Five Points, like, where all those venues are now, that was after I finished school. My mind was blown. I have never seen such a fast and dramatic transformation of a neighborhood. But anyway, so this was a few years earlier and I was I was there was the the the couple walking the poodle and I was like, wow. Shit's changing.

And I always remember I was, like, feeling really sad about because, you know, I missed Denver a lot, you know, whenever I would leave because I wasn't really feeling it, where in Madison. And then I was, like, I kinda was, like, feeling bad for myself about, like, my loss of my relationship with, like, home or whatever. But then something else was happening at the same time that I noticed. And and and I don't know if I noticed it at first because people had been talking about it or because I saw it first, and then I heard people talking about it. But there were actually ashes, like, falling down from the sky that had blown in from, like, these these towns that were, like, burning up in other parts of Colorado.

And for the moment, it kind of put things in perspective for me because, you know, I was kind of feeling real sorry for myself just just to just being real sad about, like, the changes that were happening in the city. And then it was like, boom. Like, yo. You know? Then, like, literally, the debris of, like, another town like, another person's home was the kind of it was, like, literally, like, raining down from the sky.

And, yeah, so it just I don't know. It was just kind of all yeah. All that wrapped up and, and came out as a song. And that was a song too that came out, like, quicker. Like, a lot of times, like, I I stay with things and I write for a while, but that one kind of poured out.

And, yeah, it was mostly it was written about, you know, as something I guess is in my life that it's been it's been a pretty big, like, motif or whatever. It's been some, you know, dealing with home and, like, the loss of home and the changing. As I think I guess it probably is for most people. That's probably something that everybody, at least, at some point and at some point deals with is, you know, having to face the, you know, the place they identified with as their home is no longer what it was, you know. But but, yeah, it was that was that was a big thing on my mind then, and I guess that was that was what it that was what it was about.

Yeah. When you spent time in Brooklyn, one, what was that like? And then, two, because Brooklyn has become pretty gentrified as well. So did people look at you like you were part of that problem out there? There was one time when that happened.

Yeah. I mean, that's true. And that was something that I was thinking about a lot when I was out there. Mhmm. It was like I had to because it was like cause, yeah, Brooklyn was gentrifying when I was staying out there.

And where I stayed, it hadn't gentrified yet. I I lived in Crown in Crown Heights, which I don't know what it looks like now. But when I was there, it wasn't gentrified yet. It was still a black and Jewish neighborhood, mostly, like, West Indian. And, it's actually an interesting history.

I don't know. There's, some pretty famous riots there, the Crown Heights riots because actually, so when when white flight was first happening, like, back in the day when Brooklyn was becoming predominantly black, there were these one there were certain communities specifically in Crown Heights. Basically, the the Jewish leadership was like, don't leave. Like, don't leave your homes. Mhmm.

And so Crown Heights is an interesting neighborhood because it's just like it's just starkly, like, black and, like, acidic, which is an interesting thing. Mhmm. You know, it's just it's just especially compared to the rest of Brooklyn. Not really. I mean, it's it's not it's it's especially like that in Crown Heights where it was.

But anyway, I'm getting kinda rambly. Yeah. It was definitely on my mind. It wasn't really, like, something that, like, no there was only there was one occasion when somebody had, like, mentioned it because there was some shit that was happening on the street, and I had come outside and they, you know, locals are just talking about it. And then one woman, like, looked at me and she was like, this neighborhood is changing too.

Which I think I think because I think I was kinda probably there at, like, the start of it. I mean, I know that that it's that it had a reputation for being, like, real, like, dangerous and stuff like that, and that it wasn't so much like that when I was there. I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, it still sort of was, but, like, not like it was, like, in, like, the, in, like, the nineties or the seventies or something like that. You know what I'm saying?

But then, yeah, other places in Brooklyn too, I would go to and they would be, like, a real, like, yuppie yuppied out. Mhmm. And it was something that, yeah, I had to wrestle with for a while in my mind. You know, at the same time, my mom was basically being, like, illegally, like, kicked out of her apartment in Denver. She had to move to Pueblo.

And, and I guess I had kind of like a again, it's been something that's been like a a motif in my life. It was like from the time that I was young, you know, it was something that I don't know. Just moving around a lot in my relationship with home. I mean, it's always been something that was there present on my mind. So when I was in Brooklyn, yeah, like, like, I didn't know they were I had conversations with my roommate about it too.

I was just being like, am I supposed to be here? You know what I'm saying? Like, am I is this bogus of me? Like, am I am I am I doing this to someone? When I finally though, when I went back to to Wisconsin after that, I took a class, an urban planning class, just called gentrification.

And that really changed everything for me in terms of the way I looked at it because, you know, before up until that point, I had a lot of feelings and, like, opinions about it. But studying it through that lens in which I studied it through that class, which, man, it was one of my favorite classes. At that point, I wasn't well anymore mentally. I wish I could have been more engaged in that class. But still, what I got out of it was, like, pretty heavy.

It transformed the way, like, I I I understood gentrification, and I looked at gentrification. I got introduced to it with, like, lenses that were a lot more complex. And the and the I think it was really good that I had that experience too before coming back home because those new lenses and those new ways in which I understood gentrification, it didn't allow me to come back, like, angry at people. It didn't allow me to really, blame individuals living in the city for, like, the gentrification. Mhmm.

It it, don't get me wrong, it's still an emotional thing. And there were times when I would still get mad about it. And there's certain neighborhoods, like, when I used to say, like, when I was still drinking more, like, I I can't drink in this neighborhood or that neighborhood because I'll just get too heated about, like, you know, what's around. But, Yeah. I mean, I was I was struggle I was kind of in my mind, like, grappling with the thing living living in Brooklyn, living in what I imagine now is probably a gentrifying neighborhood and being being, maybe on, like, the early stages of that.

What are those new lenses? Well, so we studied the gentrification through, so they were yeah. Like, there's these different, like, theoretical, like, approaches. Like, these different kind of schools have thought about it in within urban planning, like like, as a field of study. Mhmm.

And they have I think they're they're best they they're, like, each of these different lenses has, like, something to offer. But, you know, there's, like, a school of of of scholars or whatever that study it through, like, a kind of, like, a free market perspective. There's, like, a neo Marxist perspective. And then there's other ones that are really interesting too, like, biologic like, bio well, I forget what this is called. It was basically almost it was like looking at, like, neighborhoods, like ecosystems.

It was, like, related to, like, biology, like a perspective like that. There was something called stage theory, which looks at looks at it as, like, a number of steps towards gentrification. And then there was I think like a little bit missing in a way too in terms of maybe like a more like sociological like approach, but there was some of that too. I mean, we did get into like why gentrification is so hard for people to deal with, especially people that are, like, working class people, you know, tend to have, like, a lot more a lot stronger of, like, affiliations with their neighborhood. Like, I they identify with their neighborhoods more.

It's much more, like, a part of them. I mean for poor people for marginalized people who maybe don't get to identify like comfortably like as an American you know like they're like this whole place isn't isn't for them, you know. For their neighborhood. Right. Neighborhood affiliation.

It becomes huge. It becomes a part of the identity and, like, you know, this isn't the part of the studies that that made me more sympathy, that made me less angry, you know. But I think it's important to talk about too because I think there's also a often a disconnect between people that are like in who moved to who moved to a gentrifying city and who, feel like they're unfairly attacked. They're like, what did I do wrong? You know, I just live I'm just a person, like, living here.

I just think that it's really easy to underestimate how significant the loss of of homes are for people, especially people that are poor, and how emotional that is. And actually, they did this study on, like, a fame on a neighborhood that gentrified famously in Boston, and it was actually they found that it was, like, traumatic for people. Like, a lot of people had, like, they people who who got gentrified out of this neighborhood, they disproportionate rates of depression for years, like, feelings of, like, loss and mourning because, because again, yeah, it is it is like a it is like it's a serious thing. It's a it's a it's a it's a part of a person. Like, for a lot of people, it's it's a part of it's a part of you.

And so to watch it dis watch it disappear and then be replaced and become something that doesn't belong, like, where you came to be at, you know, and, and I don't know. I'm conflicted because a part of me wants to, like, talk speak towards, like, locals and be like, yo, we can't, like, really it would be it wouldn't be really be right to direct all this anger towards, like, you know, people right. People that have come here. But then a part of me also wants to speak towards people coming here and be like, yo, you have to be sensitive because this is a serious fucking thing. Like, this isn't just, like, this isn't it's not just people being, like It's not just a fucking Whole Foods game put up or Right.

Yeah. This isn't this isn't just snobbery or, like, entitlement. Like, no. This is actually, like, it's a serious thing. It it, like, I imagine a lot of people that move here probably don't have the same level of, like, identification with their neighborhoods.

Right. If they did, they probably wouldn't have moved to another state, you know. Yeah. So it might be difficult for them to understand, but I guess it's yeah. It's it's a tricky thing for me.

I mean, the whole thing is complicated. That's more so what I learned more than anything is that the things are very complicated and they also relate to giant systems that are beyond, you know Yeah. That are there's very few individuals making decisions that really impact this situation in a serious way. So I definitely came to kind of, like, accept the position that I had in Brooklyn, you know, like, living there. Like, accept it and be like, you weren't doing you weren't, like like, you can it's okay.

Like, you're not a shitty person because you lived in Brooklyn, you know? Yeah. And also be, like, have more compassion and forgiveness for for people that, like, you know, live in this building where it now. You know what I'm saying? Like Mhmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Because the so the part the problem with justification is, like, the people who don't get bought out of their homes are forced out by the neighborhood becoming too expensive. Right? Like, that's the main issue.

Well, there's a number of things. It's complicated because you also have, like, kind of the destruction of, like, communities. Like, so, for example, you take, like, a lot of neighborhoods, like, in Denver, say, where there's, like, a high, like, like, immigrant population of, like, mostly, like, immigrants, like, from Mexico. But also, let's say, like, in in, you know, when this was, like, the projects, like, a lot of, like, Somali immigrants, you know. Oftentimes, what happens in that situation, you know, is that these is that these is that these kind of, like, cultural enclaves develop which allow people to, like, be able to function.

Like, like, if you don't speak English, like, you'd be our there's, like, community networks that that that form around that say, like, on feds, you know. Right. But one thing that happens is, like, as as these neighborhoods start to, like, gentrify, these and and and these spots are lost, it it can have, like, a serious domino effect because, like, if you're, like, relying on the community if there's, like, a a this goes back to kind of, like, the ecosystem thing of a community. Like, once a community becomes an ecosystem, you know, something, like, being bought out or or or replaced with with, like, something that, you know, only serves, like, English speakers is is it has a more serious effect than, like, than, like, it's not just the loss of, like, you know, whatever service. It's it's actually starts to, like, like, crumble a community.

You know, there's economic factors too for sure. I mean, I mean, you know, like, people get priced out. They they have nowhere to they have I mean, they they have nowhere to live. They can't like like what you said what you said, that's the thing too. But even, like, it's so one thing that makes it really, like, devastating is what tends to happen or, like, and and, like, what's happening in this situation is, like, you have, like, areas in the city which due to, like, historical factors, they're, like, theoretical, like, property value of a lot of these places is very high.

Mhmm. You know? But due to, like, I mean, that's just because of, like, where they're located. But due to historical factors, histories of racism and classism and neglect, you have the actual property values of places that are very low. But as a bunch of things begin to change, now if you look at, like, the more, like, free market, like, school of thought, they'll be they'll they'll point to things which I think have like a factor about like people's like tastes are changing.

Like you had like these younger generations who they didn't want like a white picket fence life, you know, the younger generations of like of like middle class white people who they wanted to go live in the city, you know what I'm saying? And so there was more interest in the city. There's also like a changing, you know, like the economic infrastructure is changing because like the history of the city, like the reason cities exist as they do now is because of the industrial revolution and factories. And you had factory jobs and then you had a situation where, you know, you could be like a blue collar worker and you could, you know, set yourself up for life that was like, that was decent. With a blue collar job, you could, like, retire and and, you know, maybe put your kids through school and shit like that.

And, you know, so that brought a bunch of people into the cities and then white flight occurred, which sent a lot of people out of the cities. Also redlining or, like, basically segregating neighborhoods made it the case. So, like, if you were black and you came for a factory job and you bought a house, you're only gonna be allowed to have a house in, like, a black neighborhood. And because of, you know, the conditions that because of the racism that was gonna happen, your house was going to depreciate in value while other people's was going to, you know, like a white, like a white peer of yours, their their house would appreciate in value over time and become wealth. Anyways, you have a number of factors that makes basically the the, like, the the the, property values of these places, like, way lower than they could be in theory.

And so once the table starts to turn, because another big thing is that now there's a new kind of industrial revolution happening or not an industrial revolution like like a Mhmm. The digital revolution basically. So now cities are not they are attracting like a new type of job, but it's not factory jobs. It's like corporate headquarters for like, you know, that are overseeing operations digitally that are happening all over the world. You have that.

You have changing tastes. You have maybe people that are are are white people are maybe less afraid of living in proximity to people of color now than they were in the forties and all that. So basically what happens though is it's not a gradual shift. It's like a dramatic upheaval because you have, like, all of a sudden stuff skyrockets from being way undervalued to, like, boom, like triples, like, the property values will, like, triple in a couple years. You know what I'm saying?

Or, like, what people are actually paying. So it's also, like, the speed of that of that transition is just, like, devastating. It's, like, shock it's, like, shocking for a community, especially because, you you know, like like, neighborhoods and stuff, they it's not just a bunch of individuals. Like, it's function. It's it is its own, like, entity in a sense, you know.

Things are operating, like, in tandem. So, I mean, that's a big part of it too is, like, because wait. What you were talking about with, like, the people that don't sell, they eventually get priced out. Like, it's also like the the has to do with, like, the speed at which all of a sudden these, like, like, these rates for things are going up. Yeah.

It's just like it doesn't give time to, like, adjust for, like Right. The loss of, like, social infrastructure. You know what I'm saying? Mhmm. But also, I mean, it's been a couple years.

I'm not, like, you know, my my the dude who taught that class, if he hears this, he might be, like, well, you fucked that part up or whatever. You know what I'm saying? I'm not no expert on this, but he taught me a couple things. Yeah. That's good.

That was an amazing preamble to the song. Yeah. Alright. This is home by Simone. Stay right there.

And that used to be my spot. Maintaining balance is an easy order to change and act as I see some yuppies walking puppies and exchanging glances. Somebody pointed out the fact that he was painting as shit. See, there's a wildfire far by side the window, far by side of Cindy. It's crazy how the wind blows.

Somebody watch their whole world vanishing and flew to me. It's raining ashes, now I wonder what they used to be like. Maybe it was just a tree, oxygen for us to breathe or something to run under to protect us from the summer's heat. Or was it the cover of a journal full of dusty sheets, something tucked into the carpet when the house had company or something to remind the grand? Mother of a summer breeze or was it special to somebody?

Was it something lovely or was it next to nothing? Was it just another luxury? Was it none of the above? Did they call it ugly or was it something that they wanted gone all along? Oh, oh, I belong something that did not belong.

Will it be forgotten? Miss Long Ashes falling on the concrete or gone dog walks, I got it all full. It's so real, and that used to be my before the door closed, I looked over my sore shoulder. My shoulder's sore for moving my home over. See, it's fun, scars to soap, isn't torn posters.

Most of the time, I don't perform sober. Still sip, try because for real, you're that used to be my spot. Your dad used to stay right there. Your dad used to be my block. Your dad used to stay right here.

Your dad used to be my spot. Your dad used to stay right there. Yo, we used to be my spot. Yo, we used to stay here. Yo, we used to be my Your dad used to be my Your dad used to be my home.

Another advertisement. Hey. Hey. Hey. SoundCloud.

Where's my money? Yo. Pay the man. Goddamn. Is there something in the closet that says, we will run advertisements but not pay you for it?

They they they have to put that in there probably in order to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Man, it's a good song. Thanks.

And I think, yeah, we touched on everything that I was thinking about it before we actually listened to it. But that's off of Carousel, an album that was released in 02/2016 by Smiley Gapmouth. He's got the, master version on SoundCloud right now, Mouth. He's got the, master version on SoundCloud right now, but he's planning on doing a fucking surprise drop rerelease for you. Maybe.

We'll see. But also, you can hit him up and buy that, that hard copy, and that's mastered. And, and that comes with some dope album artwork that you do yourself. Right? No.

No. I didn't do that. No. That was actually the the album artwork for Carousel was done by my friend, Chris Nugent, who's actually the bassist for today's Paramount, which is which is one of my favorite local bands. They're pretty good with it.

There were a couple of them in my at at Cedar Recipe, though. Were they? Mhmm. Yeah. Chris, he was selling, ceramic skulls in the corner, and then Joel did a song at the end of the open mic on an acoustic guitar.

It was, like, really sick. Okay. But I would say though, as I was thinking of the song, one thing that was important to me, I think that and that that I exercised in Brooklyn and that I think does make a big difference between, like, how I feel between one's impact as, like, someone who's living in, like, a gentrifying place is, like, it's important to connect with local community and support and support the local businesses. Mhmm. That, I would say, is, like, really like, I don't know.

If you can't connect with if, like, if if you can't connect with the neighbors, frankly, fighting for a lot of people, white people who move into a city, if you're, like, scared of if you're too scared to connect with, like, the neighbors because you've been, like, indoctrinated by, like, racist propaganda, you should, work on yourself before you live in a gentrifying city. Yeah. You should support local businesses that were there before you, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah.

Attempting to to stay ignorant is no longer qualifying you as ignorant. Like, if you know that you're ignorant to a situation and you continue to stay ignorant on purpose, like, now that that's no longer ignorance, like, that's you literally feeding the system and and, not helping out the people that the system is, taking advantage of. So look into that. And I like how you said that. Like, work on yourself first before you you attempt to to move to a city like Denver or like Colorado Springs.

It's actually, move to Colorado Springs because there's tons of white people out there and you'll fucking probably fit in. And it's not it's not becoming gentrified at fucking that's where the white people go. That's what it is, dude. I moved out to Colorado Springs to get away from the city, and I wanna move back. I wanna move back home.

And I'm working on that with my daughter's mom. She keeps telling me I can't because she doesn't want our daughter living in two separate cities. But I'm hoping that one day she changes her mind. But she doesn't wanna move down here because of the gentrification making the city so expensive. Interesting.

Yeah. Honestly, though, I I'm really thankful that I had, like that I got to see so much, like, that I got to see so many different, like, perspectives from life growing up. Like, I can understand why one would be reluctant to want their kid to live in two cities, but I think that Is that how is that what you did? Not like No. Not like with the Colorado not as far as way as Colorado Springs.

Yeah. I always I lived in two cities at once for, like, yeah, man, on many Yeah. I lived in the North Side, and I lived in Commerce City. So it's like those were my two because my parents were divorced as well. Gotcha.

And that those are two very different spots. Yeah. I'm really thankful for it. I felt like it it gave me the ability to kind of, like, see into to understand more shit. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like like, be more open minded and be able to kind of understand where a lot more people were coming from just by getting to see things that were pretty drastically different. Yeah. Yeah. I understand it though because so, like, my daughter's mom is from Arizona.

Mhmm. And she's she's lived a ton of different places as well, but so she's, like, finally settled down in Colorado Springs as an adult on her own. And she doesn't have any family out here like me and my daughter and then, like, my my mom and my stepdad and my little sister. Like, those are all the family that she has out here. And they all live in Denver.

And so she's like, if you move to Denver too, then I'm a be in Colorado Springs by myself, like, with no family. And she's like, and I don't wanna move to Denver because because for me, I could live with my mom. Right? And, like, it would be cheap. And for her, she'd have to, like, move in somewhere on her own.

She's and that would just be too expensive. So that's the reason why she's like, no. I can't do it. And I have to respect that. Like, I understand it, as much as I wanna say, oh, well, I'm doing it anyway.

But, you know, had a kid, so I can't live so selfishly. So, we'll see you one day, hopefully. But thank you for coming in today. Thank you. I actually wanted to ask you who this is Nesh, the the, lady rapper on Clown Car?

Yeah. Is she from here? No. She's she's from Philly. Okay.

Yeah. He what? She's fucking dope. Shout out to he what? Yeah.

She's very dope. Yeah. She's very fucking dope. I should give her a call. Mhmm.

Yeah. She's a good friend. Yeah. She's ill ill artist. Did Did you go to Philly to record with her?

No. No. No. No. She was on my scholarship, so we did that.

So that was from Madison, you know. Yeah. I've had I know it's like she's another one that really ill, doesn't put a lot out. Same with, Zalarina Sanders. May Zalarina being maybe the only one that was iller than me in my, like, in my wave.

No. Maybe he would too, honestly. What I've noticed though is that, like, a lot of the illest ones, they have a hard time fucking finishing the shit and putting it out. Yeah. Yeah.

Like like, Hila could take over the fucking world, with if it was just a matter of talent. Same with same with Zalarina, but it's life is more complicated than that. Mhmm. It is. But, hope or spell the Zalarina.

How do you spell that? Is that that's what you said. Right? Zalarina? Yeah.

That's not the that's not Nezha, though. Yeah. Nezha. Yeah. That's the other one.

But, if you go to does she go by DashNesh? Is that her MC name? I don't think so. I don't think so anymore. I don't know.

It's been a while. Yeah. Because and that's the thing too, man. A lot of the because the other one, I think it had I don't know. Everyone was still trying to figure out their names back then.

So I don't I don't think so. I think I I think I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna lay smiley, goddamnouth to rest, honestly. What are you? Just gonna be Elijah? I mean, what?

Elijah Lynch. Yeah. Elijah Lynch? Yeah. Because I was, you know, I was a teenager when I decided I was Smiley Gapmouthed.

And I'm, you know, it's it's I feel like it doesn't represent me anymore, not as, like, holistically, you know. Back then, I was just, like, a fucking purist backpack rapper. It made more sense. Yeah. You know.

I'm probably gonna always call you Smiley. That's cool. Alright. Yeah. Just because I I mean, I've thought about I've thought about changing my name a few times, Because sometimes I feel like that, like, Juice Box Paradise was given to me.

I think I can't even remember. Yeah. It was high school. It was given to me in high school, and so it's like, well, maybe maybe it's time to move on a little bit. But then at the same time, I'm like, no.

Like, that's who that's who I am. Like, that's who I feel like, you know. I mean, if you're feeling it, I mean, I say, you know, roll with it. But yeah. Word.

Alright. So thank you for coming in. Hit him up to buy his album since SoundCloud isn't paying him until we get that figured out. But it or, you know, check him out on SoundCloud. I'm sure you appreciate that as well.

And you can find him in smiley gap mouth. And it is spelled exactly how it sounds. Is there any you wanna plug, like, anything that's coming up in the next four weeks or so. That's when this will be released. Nope.

Nope. Nothing. I don't have anything planned. Alright. Yeah.

That's kinda how you move. Right? You just kinda go with it. Yeah. Maybe I hope maybe I have a song.

I don't know. Do you have a website? Likely. No. Instagram?

No. No. Facebook? Kinda. Here's what I wanna plug.

I'm looking for a fucking manager to to fucking Yeah. Get my shit out of hand. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Smiley Gatton Mouth Needs a freaking social media manager, a manager to get all his shit on the Internet taken care of.

So hit him up. And you should be paying him to work with him. That's how I'm gonna say it. I'm a put that out for you. No.

Yeah. Alright. Thank you for coming in. Yeah. No.

Thanks for having me. Yeah. Alright. Be sure to, check out that free music for free people website, fm,thenumberfour,fp.com. Free People TV coming out with a lot of great content.

Be sure to come down to Youth On Record. Check out all the classes and opportunities that they present here. And if you need mixing and engineering services, get in touch with Jesus Rodriguez, and he'll hook you up. And he'll do a good job as well. You can get in touch with me, and I'll get you in contact with him.

Or his Instagram is, is it Jesus three zero three? Jesus r three zero three on Instagram. Alright. Peace out. Much love.

Later. It's your fucking boy.