Meet Molina Speaks

In this powerful episode of Let's Get Bizzy, host Juice Bizzy sits down with Moe Speaks—an artist, mentor, and visionary deeply embedded in the culture of hip-hop and activism. They dive into the meaning of dreams, both in sleep and in life, exploring Moe's experience documenting his night visions and using them as a creative and spiritual guide.

Moe shares insights on his latest single, Waiting on a Dream, and its message of taking action rather than waiting for opportunities to come. He also reflects on his Harvest of the Dreamer event at the Denver Art Museum, where he curated an artistic takeover, breaking barriers in a space often reserved for the elite.

This episode delves deep into the intersection of hip-hop, activism, and personal growth—discussing how creativity serves as a tool for revolution, community building, and personal liberation. Juice and Moe unpack the evolution of hip-hop, the challenges of staying authentic in an industry driven by money, and the importance of radical imagination in shaping a better world.

Whether you're an artist, activist, or dreamer looking for inspiration, this episode is packed with wisdom and motivation. Tap in and start manifesting your own vision—no more waiting on a dream.

🎧 Listen now on Let's Get Bizzy!

Transcript

I'm a little sick, so hopefully I'm not fucking blowing up with coughs on this episode. It's your fucking boy. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Let's Get Busy with Your Boy Juice Busy. Today we are joined by the great Moe Speaks, somebody I consider a friend, a mentor, a teacher.

Very excited to sit here with you and, get to learn a little bit more about you. Oh, spell your name. M o s p k x, Moe Speaks, Proff of Knowledge, x. There you go. We're just gonna jump right into it and get started with the track.

You wanna introduce the song they're about to listen to? Yeah. This is, Waiting on a Dream, produced by DJ Icewater, and, just shot a music video. It was filmed and edited by Dials down in, Albuquerque, New Mexico. Fuck waiting on a dream.

Everybody wanna get to heaven, no one wanna die. Everybody wanna live forever, no one got the time. You want the crime money, lazy bitch ain't got the drive. You want that dime, honey, but don't give a pussy time. Everybody want true love, nobody putting work, so the love flowed away.

Now your feelings feeling hurt. What's your self worth? What do you owe to your tribe? What's the final thought inside your mind when exiting this life? We ain't going back to old age.

We ain't going back to those days. These stories ain't what they told me. No shadows represent the old man. I will see mine. Envisioning what's missing and all that is likely, driven by visions of winning and what might be.

I'm giving this mission my vision of what's mighty, Revising what's written, I never said all lightly. I'm living what's given, I'm in all the right keys. I'm destined to visit the temples in my night dreams. Blessed with the intuition of visions I see. Ain't another motherfucker that can do this like me.

Dreams there are streams they fall like stars. Dreams there are streams they fall like stars. Like Very good. Shout out DJ Icewater. That's beautiful.

How you feeling? Man, I'm feeling good. I'm listening to that and realizing, I also need to acknowledge Randy Runyon on trumpet. I've been working with That was live trumpet? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Cool. Absolutely. Yeah.

That dude is, he's a master trumpeter. And he just played the role of Jester and co master of ceremonies at my, Harvest of the Dreamer event at the Denver Art Museum. And then Mawule provides some, vocal support there on the hooks. Beautiful. Is that coming off of a project that's soon to be released?

It's gonna be released as a single. Right. So the two songs we're exploring together today, Waiting on a Dream, and then, you know, later on when we get to, Find My Way, those, will be kinda packaged. There's like a little couplet, and I'm just gonna start unleashing these, like, singles and little pairs of songs here and there leading up to an album, sometime in 2020. Mhmm.

Word. So you've been doing this a long time. Is, waiting on a dream even though you've been added a long time, is that, like, a manifestation for you? Is it or is it more of a memoir and more of, like, a a message to people who may be at the beginning stages of their careers? It's all of it, you know, because we should never stop dreaming no matter no matter what stage you're in.

Yeah. You know? And, you know, I watch my little four year old daughter and, the way she lives out her dreams. And, you know, I have a 16 year old son and, watching him trying to figure out what his dreams are. But I think even when you're an elder, you know, like, you should constantly be, like, manifesting and creating the next dream.

So and then I've been working with, just like, you know, night dreams, and documenting my my night dreams for the last, several years coming up on on two full years now that I'm in a deep dive process of, you know, like, I ain't trying to study every dream or, like, you know, not every dream has a symbol or not everything has some deeper Freudian meaning, but it's just, like, observing what's happening in my subconscious. And, you know, when there's a message, there's a very clear message. A lot of times, though, it's just, like, observing the the dream world. So dreams have just been a constant message. And, you know, I say at this point, I'm at the beginning of, like, some new dreams, you know, life dreams, creative dreams.

And it's also, like, the way I was looking at the song, it's like it doesn't matter what your dream is. Your dream might be to date somebody in particular. Or if your dream is marriage. Or if your dream is like you're a dreamer fighting for your rights as an undocumented person. You're trying to change the world, or you're just trying to, like you're trying to launch a career or, you know, you're trying to, like, get off the alcohol or you know what I mean?

Like, it don't matter what the fuck it is, but it's like fuck waiting on a dream. And I think that's something that anybody can relate to at any given point in time because, like like, fuck waiting on what it is that you know you need to do. And if you start the process of it, like, you're already living it. You know? It doesn't matter what the outcome is.

Just being in the process. Like, you're living the dream. So so go out and live the dream. Right. Just on the like, the journey itself is the dream.

Yeah. I feel that. With documenting your dreams, have you noticed any, like, patterns? Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. I've noticed, like, certain people, certain places, when they show up, like, I already know what it is, you know. And and so then that's where you start to get into kind of the lucid dream experiences. Like, you realize you're dreaming because there's, like, this pattern and there's a situation. And so then in the dream world, you're either, like, watching it or you start, like, consciously, like, acting out, because, like, there's there's something that kicks in where you realize, oh, I'm in a dream, and this is that place again.

Like, this is this is my hometown. Or I'm in, like, a, you know, I'm in a spaceship, or I'm in an airport, or I'm in a place where, like, transit is happening or, oh, there's that character from, like, my adolescence that, you know, represents danger. Or you know what I'm saying? It's like there's, like, all like, yeah. There's there's a lot of, familiarities.

There's patterns for sure. And I'm I'm actually about to start, a process of kinda going through the last few years of, like, notes and, really consciously looking at the patterns. But for the time being, I just wanted to, like, get in the process of, like, recalling and observing and thinking about how those dreams show up in my day to day life. Mhmm. Yeah.

You have a I I read this book off and on. I haven't even completely finished it, but it's called A Course in Miracles. And it talks a little bit about dreams in there. And it and it says that dreams are either, our subconscious manifestation of a fear or lack of a fear. So, like, the good dreams are, like, us not living in fear, and then the bad dreams are us being consumed by fear, basically.

And I've wanted to document my dreams to see if I find a pattern like, when these fears pop up or when this lack of fear pops up in my life, but, I've yet to do so. Oh, I can see that. Like, fear is like a a constant theme in the dream world or, you know, the idea of, like, an absence of fear. Like, what are you what are you able to do Yeah. Exactly.

And play with when you're not consumed by these things that are always limiting you. Right? Right. But I also think dreams are, like, portals to other dimensions and, like, maybe even windows into, like, what we're doing in, parallel universes. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like, what we're doing in the multiverse. It's like Yeah. It's like there's there's so much going on beyond the four dimensions that we're really comfortable with here on planet Earth that, I think the dream world is really, like, queuing us into to what exists beyond what we know here in this moment in time. Yeah.

I messed with that too. So you're focused a lot on dreams. Right? Because, tell me again the name of the event that you just hosted. Harvest of the Dreamer.

That that was kinda like thinking about the last thirteen years of my creative life and, like, crossing over into the next thirteen years of creative life. And, yeah, I dubbed it, Harvest of the Dreamer. How'd it go? It's badass, man. Yeah.

It was it was amazing, bro. It felt like a dream. You know, it was like, I don't know, being super sober in the moment. Mhmm. But it felt like I was high as fuck.

You know what it felt like? I was like felt like I was in a dream just watching, like, the five floors of the Denver Art Museum be activated with creativity that, I curated. You know? And I wasn't the only wasn't the only person doing my thing, but, you know, it was my vision, and I've been planning it for about six to eight months and just watching, like, a dozen or so of people I've either collaborated with for many years or people that, like, I've dreamt of collaborating with, watching us kinda take over the museum and and just feel this space, this multimillion dollar space, this, like, wonder of architecture, this place that's primarily reserved for, like, white artists and rich folks and white male artists in particular to see, like, a bunch of people of color and women and, younger folks fill that place with with their dreams. Like, that was, it was a really beautiful moment.

Yeah. That's a huge deal. That's the entire Denver Art Museum right off it's five floors in total. Mhmm. Damn.

And, for a long time, like, I'd rapped in a very particular style that was, like, represented rap to me. Or I did, like, spoken word the way spoken word is done. Or I did Chicano poetry the way Chicanos are supposed to write poetry, you know. And, I don't know. I don't know what it means to master something, but I did enough of those things that years ago, I started kinda trying to break out of it and do things really differently.

And I'm in this phase of, like, exploring my singing voice more, you know, and really really believing the the proverb from Zimbabwe that says, if you could talk, you could sing. If you could walk, you could dance. You know? And just really trying to step into other aspects of my creativity, whether it's movement, you know, singing, the way that I sing. It doesn't have to sound how you sing or how somebody else sings, you know, but, like, getting comfortable with my singing voice and, you know, painting and just doing a lot creatively that, like, breaks me out of not only the boxes that, society created for me, but, you know, we create our own boxes.

We create our own limitations and our own stereotypes of like what we think we should be doing or can't do or whatever. So, yeah, that was another, important aspect of, like, putting that song and find my way out first in this new phase of of life, is, like, exploring that that singing and also emceeing, like, outside the box. Yeah. You've been, really good at focusing on, like, different aspects of art throughout your entire career, though. Right?

Like, you've, acted and directed in your own films and stuff before as well. Plays. I acted yeah. Early on. Like, actually, before before I put out a record, I'd, wrote this, two act play that I acted in and directed, and I had seven characters.

Mhmm. There's, like, new school and old school. This is back in, like, 02/2006, bro. It's back in the day day. But there's, like, new school and old school in this battle over, like, the soul of, like, Chicano consciousness, essentially.

And it was, like, me kinda this is very autobiographical in terms of, like, I was, like, in some ways seeing myself as new school and my best friend who died when I was a teenager, Randy Anthony Asquivel, rest in power. He was kinda like the, him and Immortal Technique came together in my mind to kinda, like, represent, like, this character, old school, School, who was just this, like, unapologetic, like, revolutionary figure that was constantly challenging New School to, like, do the right thing and not sell out the culture. You know what I mean? So I was like, it was this play that had mixed, poetry, rap, graffiti art, music, and that was the first thing I did. So, yeah, I've always been, like, really trying to push boundaries, but no matter what, you you can end up getting stuck in your own in your own little things, you know?

And I guess that's something I've always tried to, like, rebel against, not only socially, but within myself. Like, what can I do in this next little phase of the journey that's fresh and that, like, frees me? Mhmm. Do you take, excuse me, do you take aspects of hip hop with you in your art, or, like, intentionally? Or is that just kind of, like, who you are as a person so it just comes along with the art itself?

I think it's both. You know? I think, like, I wouldn't be an artist without hip hop. Right. Like, just period.

That was the only, it was the only introduction to art. That was the only expression of art that I really felt Connected to. Connected to and accessible to me as a kid. You know? Mhmm.

So, yeah, before I understood that, like, rap is poetry Mhmm. Or that hip hop is art. Like, it was just about rap and hip hop. And then, you know, as I've moved through this career and this creative process, you know, for decades now since I was, like, little, it was like, sometimes I'm actively incorporating hip hop, but I don't really have to try that hard because it's always it's always there. You know?

It's, like, the basis. But then also, it's, like, sometimes I'm, like, trying to go beyond the scope of what hip hop is. Yeah. You know, or what people think it is. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean, there's tons of people where, I introduce myself as a rapper, and it, like, puts it puts this, I think just a stereotype, you know, inside their mind right away. But even even myself, like, I feel like I put stereotypes on myself when I when I introduce myself as just a rapper.

So lately, I've been, saying that I'm more of a hip hop artist because in anything I do, I carry aspects and elements of hip hop with me, inside of that art just because that was my introduction to art as well. Where how old were you when you first started getting into hip hop and, like, really trying to rap? Hip hop came into my life when I was, like, 11 years old. Mhmm. Like, for I remember the first song I heard.

It was very distinct. It was La Raza by Kid Frost. And I was, like, walking through the playground, walking through the basketball court in my hometown, and, like, I heard Kid Frost. And so what the fuck is that? You know, it was like it was like a combination of, like, the, like, more, like, pop, style of music that my mother was listening to, like, an old school, like, Prince and, like, you know, Michael Jackson and just that that, like, rhythm.

But then, like, the the Spanglish and, you know, the the clear, like, you know, Mexican influence reminded me of, like, the music that I grew up listening to with with my dad because he was he was from Chihuahua, Mexico. And so I grew up listening to, like, you know, traditional Mexican music. So it was like this, like, strange mixture, but, like, really, like, raw. And, I was just like, damn. What's this?

And then that led me to all the West Coast hip hop and, you know, all the gangster rap and Pac, NWA, you you know, Cube, Dre, Snoop, all of that. Yeah. So that was kinda, like, the beginning. And, I listened to so much hip hop. I got really deep into the poetry of, Nas and Pac.

Mhmm. And, without really trying, like, just these lyrics started coming coming from me, you know, especially after my Primo passed away. Found a lot of healing and just making making music about him. You know, like, my first rhymes were really about him. One was about a drug dealer's quest to beat the odds by any means necessary.

And I, like, kinda borrowed from this Tupac line, you know. I'm up before the sunrise, hit the block and the hustle just to get by. Like, that became the hook for this song. And then another song I wrote for my homie, the hook for that was, this goes out to my cousin and friend. Before we learned to walk, we were best friends.

Family out from the start. Now I forever hold you with my heart. This goes out to my cousin and friend. Like, that was the hook, and it was a song, like, memorializing my best friend who was my closest closest homie, closest person in my life. He was like a father figure to me even as a teenager.

You know? I have pictures of us when we were, like, one, two years old. Like, I had this, like, corny little cowboy hat on, and he had this trucker hat on. You know what I mean? Like, it went all the way back to, like, like, just being little ninos.

You know? So, like, making music about him and recording that music at my homie's place as a teenager, like, that kinda set everything off. Yeah. Yeah. So something that is, I think that you really teach that you teach just naturally and that's really important about you is being able to navigate, art and stay true to art and, like, keep yourself authentic in it, but also under like, make a business out of it and and really fund yourself and, like, fund the the world around you with it.

What age how long of a time frame was it for you of just, like, I'm only making art because it's it's meaningful to me. Like, it's it's just, what I wanna do. Like, I just wanna rap. I just wanna write songs. How long did that last for you until you were like, you know what?

I think I can make a career out of this as well. Mhmm. I started making music when I was 16. Mhmm. And, I didn't put out an album as, like, an official, like, statement or, like, launching a career to, like I was 27.

And I took that concept Up Before the Sunrise Mhmm. And I put out an album called Up Before the Sunrise. And, it was kind of thinking about, like, what that that concept, like, that hunger, that drive, like, what that meant ten years later, you know, as, like, a, as an activist, as a father, as, like, an adult. You know? Like, yeah.

So, you know, it was a good ten years of, like, being creative before I really understood, like, this is what I need to do. And, there's a bunch of other things that come with it, you know, being an educator, you know, being an activist. But, like, yeah, I realized art was, like, a key and that that was, like, the driving force for, like, everything I wanted to do. And then I also realized, you know, it's like we're all artists. You know?

You don't learn to become an artist. Right. Exactly. Not to become an artist. Yeah.

And there's, like, this incredible power that we all have as children that the system, like, beats out of us. And and so few adults claim that. But if we want a different world and and if we wanna get to where we're going individually, like, beyond this life, it's like matter is neither created nor destroyed. It doesn't matter what your religion or philosophy or spirituality is. Like, you came from somewhere, you're going somewhere.

So if you wanna get to the next level or the next realm in your journey, like, you need your creative power. You know what I'm saying? Like, without that, you can't do anything. You know? It ain't just about the songs and the poems and, you know, it's like, cool.

Like, you wrote a sick verse. Dope. You could spin on your head. Cool. You you can mix songs together.

You're a dope DJ. Good for you. You know? But, like, the fifth element of hip hop, like, the knowledge, the connection to something deeper that Afrika Bambaataa had pushed and, you know, Crazy Legs had like taken in his B boy form and like really like honed that in his work as a B boy, like that original knowledge that came out of hip hop, that fifth element, like that's what it's all about. You know?

And it's like, I I started to realize that, and I was like, man, the radical imagination is the key to everything. Mhmm. Like, it's the key to unlocking your spirituality. It's the key to changing this world. You know what I'm saying?

Like, it's the key to, like, remaking anything in your life that needs to be changed from the smallest thing to the biggest thing. If you don't have the creativity, you have nothing. Mhmm. And I realized that, and I was like, that's what I'm supposed to be doing with my life more than anything. It's like creating and pushing the boundaries of, like, people's belief in creativity and reactivating people's creativity.

So it doesn't matter if I'm, like, doing that as a teacher, as a master of ceremonies, as an activist trying to get people to imagine another world, as an emcee, as a curator in a museum, if I'm visiting a a a jail or a youth correctional facility, or I'm at a university. Like, it doesn't matter. But, like, my my job is to inspire Right. And provoke the radical imagination and to make you feel uncomfortable. Like, that's my job.

Like, that's what I was put here for. You know? Yes. So, yeah, that's the key. Yeah.

I get that. Because I have, I have, like, a spiritual, guider or mentor, you know, that I rely on just through, my own, like, my own journey and, like, getting sober and and stuff like that and, like, really learning to come into terms with myself and accept myself in the world around me. So I've needed guidance, and a big a big part of that is, like, I go through these periods in time where I'm really discontent with, the path that or just where I'm at in life because, like, I still have to work a full time job to provide and stuff, and so, like, that makes me discontent sometimes. And so I'll bring that to, this person that I rely on for guidance, and he's like, and he he comes with truth about it right where he says, you know, you got you got to just accept where where you're at. Like, you have to take where you're at and understand that there's a bigger picture that maybe you don't always see.

And you just keep putting one foot in front of the other and, like, maybe one day you'll get to where you're supposed to be with your art, but, like, maybe maybe, like, this art thing isn't in plan for you. And that's where I get lost. Like, that's where he loses me because, he's not necessarily an artist himself. And so I don't think he has, like, the the the ability to understand what I mean when I say, like, it's this deep rooted, passion and drive and, like, calling, like, you're talking about to to create. Like, it's not just something that I'm hoping works out one day.

It's like, I'm gonna be doing this no matter what. Like, I need this to work out for me. Like, this is my life. This is how I give back. This is what connects me to the the world around me and the bigger the bigger picture in general.

It's like what connects me to my creator. And it's how yeah. I think I love that you, talk about, like, activism because I think that's where we lose the bridge between the old school and the new school. Right? It's like, a lot of the new school is just is isn't about activism.

Like, it's just about making your money. It's just about putting your songs out so that maybe you blow up and get big. And, and in the in the old school, like, it was about both. It's about, like, providing for your community and for your family and for yourself, but also, giving back to the people around you. And is you've done a a good job at bridging that gap.

Thank you. I think. How do you feel when you see, new school cats, making music just like to hustle and just to just to make money? Well, I got I got a few things for you first. Yeah.

First of all, what you're what you're saying about your, you know, your ongoing conversations with, you know, your mentor. Mhmm. Yeah. You you're already doing it, man. Yeah.

Like, you're already living you're you're already living your dream. You know? Like, you're doing it. You know what I'm saying? It's like and and even though you have this other job that provides, you know, you're making hip hop part of your ecosystem.

You're making your art part of your ecosystem. And anytime you're ever in doubt of it, you know, pick up a pen, make a beat, get in the studio. Yeah. Like, you're here at Youth On Record, like, hosting a podcast with artists that that you admire who also admire you. You know, like, I've seen you rock stages.

You kill it. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're on your way, and you're already there. You know? So, yeah, like, you're already doing it.

A few of the things I was wanting to say, it'll come back around. Yeah. To your question about the, you know, the young folks who are, like, just hustling or, like, have that hustle mind state, like, just that money mind state. Like, I don't blame I don't blame the youth. I don't blame young people.

Like, look at the fucking world that was created for them, for us. And then my generation keeps, like, perpetuating for the youth. Like, what the fuck do you expect? Like, it's such a it's such a world full full of sharks. You know what I'm saying?

And and, there's so much inequality. It's like people are hungry. And people are doing what they gotta do, what they can do. You know, it's like, I was thinking a lot about like, like gangsters and why we, like, celebrate gangsters, especially black and brown folks, you know? And, like, but it's like the whole world is run by gangsters, you know?

Look at these politicians. Like, look at our fucking president. Like, what a joke, you know? Like, the whole world is run by by by gangsters. Mhmm.

You know? And and, it's like, man, you know, from a certain perspective, it's like a a a drug dealer gangster is feeding death to their community. And it's also like, at least you know what you get. You know what I'm saying? Like at least you know what you're getting when you go to the drug dealer.

And it's an honest transaction. You ain't going there thinking it's anything other than what it is. Yeah. He's not making you promises. Nah.

And more often than not, like that person's also trying to provide for their family. Like, I think it's actually, like, a lot more illegitimate that the pharmaceutical industry is claiming that they're they're giving you medicines when in fact they're killing Killing. Like, thousands of people when they're, like, sickening millions of people with, like, chemicals and and literally, like, selling, like, high grade heroin to people claiming it's gonna make you well, but it's actually gonna make you sick and it's actually gonna ruin your life. Or even when we think about the the alcohol industry or the tobacco industry. You know, like, alcohol and tobacco kill more people than every other illegal drug combined.

And alcohol is, like, just embedded into our society as something that's, like, regular, acceptable. It's just this thing, like, you know, you get caught up in that cycle hella quick, but, like, we ain't judging them. You know? But when I when I think about, like, what some of the hustlers and the gangsters are doing, like, it's like, you know, some of those people that we kinda, like, heroize or idealize, like, idolize, in that capacity. It's like they're they're like a check on white supremacy.

Like, they're showing you that, like like, I I this wasn't even given to me, but I'm gonna take something. I'm gonna take nothing and make it something. And, it's like a show of power when the idea is that you're powerless. And so, like, I understand, like, why we look to those people at times and, like, are mesmerized by what they're doing. Because they're, at the base level, refusing to accept what has been given and by any means necessary.

A month before the sunrise, hit the block and a hustle just to get black. Like, that was one of my first rhymes, and that's what I was talking about was that, like, quest to make it by any means necessary no matter what you have to do. And I think there's something powerful about that, you know. Yeah. They're revolutionizing, but on, like, a very personal level.

Like, not on a level that gives back to the community or anything, but just, like, on a very, like, well, at least me individually and my family, like, are standing up against the system. Right. But I've also known some drug dealers and some gangsters in my life who have actually done a lot more for community Really? Than public servants Right. Than politicians.

Okay. That's not like a blanket statement to say. It's, like, always like that or, like, you know, every gangster, like, should be, like, praised. You know? But I'm just saying, like, I understand where that's coming from, and thus, I understand the hustler mind state of a lot of young men, especially young men of color who grow up in a situation where you have nothing.

And you know the world is so unfair. You know, like like, the politicians, the the corporations, you know, the institutions. Like, they ain't trying to do nothing for you. Right. They're just trying to put you in jail if nothing else and profit off of you being in jail like the new Jim Crow, the new slavery.

So it's like trying to get that money in a legitimate way through hip hop, through your art. Mhmm. I can't I can't hate on that. I can't front on that. I can't be mad at young people for feeling that way.

And, also, like, a lot of young people don't have mentors. Mhmm. You know, they don't have people who can teach them another way. And, like, they weren't taught another way. Like, it's, like, my generation's fault and the people before me.

Like, I don't look at that as, like, young people's fault, you know? And I ain't trying to I I ain't here to, like, like preach to anybody. I'm just here to like provide an example for what's for what's possible, you know, and like it is possible to like change this world. It's possible to change your life. It's possible to live in a society where like people's most basic needs are are met, you know, and that's and that's its own kind of hustle.

Like like, I've chosen to be a hustler of culture. I've chosen to be a hustler of creativity. And, and I understand the other hustles. And, you know, I think there's, like, I think there's a lot of honesty within a young artist who's hustling to, to try to provide for their family or to try to make it by any means necessary. You know?

And I think that we we will come back around because we have to come back around. We will come back around to an honor code, you know, that is is about, like, loyalty and and loyalty to community, loyalty to culture, loyalty to source. You know, I think we will come back around to that because we have to come back around to it. And and I I don't really buy into the idea that, like, young people don't give a fuck. I think young people care tremendously.

It just hurts to care Yeah. When the when the world isn't giving you like, you know, it isn't giving you any substance to actually, like, do something with with those emotions where you care. So you you have to turn cold. But, you know, I think young people, have a lot more, like, in this generation, this young generation, like, like, has a lot more, like, power and belief and substance than my generation did. Like, I don't I don't buy into the narrative that, young people don't care or that they don't give a fuck or they're just out for the money.

Like, I think it's it's more so, like, the adults who created this world where they didn't give a fuck, but I see young people, like, really wanting to change the world. And it will be this generation, this younger generation, like my son's generation, that does change the world. Yeah. I truly feel that way too, like, because just in my generation, I see us, like, starting to wake up and really apply that to our lives. But, like, my daughter, our children, I feel like are are gonna be the ones to really, really kick it in the gear and, like, get it going.

And we see that just with, like, the all the young kids who are fighting for social activism and, like, environmental activism, like sixteen sixteen years old and younger. You know? They're the brave ones. Yeah. Just yeah.

Just speaking out, like, I'm a kid, and I want a I want a world to live in that I feel comfortable in. And, I want a world to live in, period. Yeah. Exactly. Because humanity is that question.

Right. Like, we're about to be the next dinosaurs. That's true. We we have to change. Yeah.

Things have to change. Yeah. And I'm just trying to be part of that Yeah. Through my work. Yeah.

I appreciate that. And maybe even, like, with because I I don't necessarily like to speak a lot on, the mainstream news that's going on, but, something that I've learned through, like, the whole thing with Tekashi six nine and, him being on on trial and, like, giving testimonies is that the Trey Way bloods, were were funding him. Like, they were they were pushing his music and, like, they were the ones who made him the superstar, you know, with through their money and then, like and then they were funding themselves through that. And I don't know what they were doing with the funds that they were receiving, back from that, but like, I'm only hoping that, they were they were giving back, you know, that they were taking care of the people around them because through listening I've been listening to the Joey Badass album, American Badass a lot lately, and he has at the end of at the end of the album, he has a a little poem that he does where he talks about like, we need the bloods and the crips to come together to start, protecting communities because who's gonna police the police?

And, like, it just really gets me thinking because another thing that I learned through the Nipsey Hussle thing is that the Crips are legitimate business. Like, they have an LLC and they got lawyers behind them and, like, they're taking care of their communities. And so, I just been on the tip of, like, there's got there's gotta be a way to bring these these quote unquote gangs, you know, like, and turn them into to businesses for the community, and turn them into something that can actually fund the the streets and, like, and the people, so that we don't have to rely on on the cops or rely on the huge corporations anymore, you know, like, and I think, like, I think they're starting to see that too just with the younger generation entering into the gangs. Like, there's they're like, yo, we got something here that can actually, help build rather than, destroy or, you know, rather than, like, keep help down. And I just think I just think that that, like, that not only is that taking place in the art community and the gang community, but it's just taking place in the world in general.

Like, it's just starting to it's just starting to go. It's just bad. People want connections, man. People people want connections. People, people don't really want division.

Like, the division comes from the top down. Like, it's meant to confuse us. It's meant to it's meant to divide us. You know? Like, politics is like polls.

You know? It's like it's meant to it's meant to divide us. Right versus left, black versus white. You know what I mean? It's meant to create this, like, polarizing, like, opposition, like, this duality, this false duality that nothing is connected in the center.

Everything is, like, at odds, you know? But yeah, like, and you know, humans are complicated, man. I mean, there's like, well intended politicians, well intended gangsters, and there's like, you know, like really malicious, like, devilish politicians and gangsters. Like, people, you know, no matter what you're talking about, what what sector of society, you know, black, white, old, young, like, rich, poor, gangsters, cops. Like, there's good people.

There's bad people, you know? And and throughout throughout the history of hip hop, like on both coasts, throughout the country, like there have been people who are, looking for solutions, you know, and like that includes educated people, activists, street educated people, you know, artists, gangsters, like, people constantly trying to figure out a way to like come together and change things. And, I don't know. I'm on the side of people who are like rooting for that change and trying to make that change. And I think the important thing is, like, you know, it doesn't even have to be on a big scale.

Like, it doesn't and that's where we get caught up and where we get lost is, you know, it's like, we have this, like, fame mind state that if you're not doing things at a certain scale on a certain level, like, it's not real. Like, you always believe something more real is happening somewhere else. You know, you have to have, like, x number of likes or followers or fans or sell x number of records or, you know, have x number of plays to be effective, but, like, that's not that's not true. Know, it's whatever your scale is, like, however big or small. Like, your job is just to, like like, do what you put here to do and to do what you know you need to do.

And and even if you're just changing something inside of your household, like, even if you're just giving something different to your children, even if you're just treating your partner or your lovers in a in a more equitable way or a fair way than what you were taught, like like, you you're doing your part, you know? You're you're you're changing the world for the better, you know? And, yeah, man. I feel like we're in a we're kind of in a race to the finish. You know?

It's like the scope of human problems. Like, it's not just, like, specific to a place or a culture or a country. Like, this is global now. You know? We're just in this moment where it's like either either we're gonna evolve and, like, humanity is gonna continue, and we're gonna do things hella differently.

And and it's a process, you know, or we're not. And that's and that's where we're at right now. Mhmm. You know? So, like Are you feeling hopeful?

I will say yes. Okay. But a little skeptical as well? Man, it's like I guess it depends on the day. It depends on the moment.

Yeah. I guess it's a it's a really dark time, you know. And there's a, you know, it's easy to give way to fear. But as we were talking about, like, fear fear, stagnates you. You know, it cripples you.

Right? Yeah. It's like you have to make a move. That's why I love the game of chess. That's why I love the game of art.

You just gotta make a move. And as long as you make a move and you keep things moving, like, at least you're moving. Yeah. Exactly. Like, even if even if I'm feeling fearful and maybe even not hopeful at all, like, I just gotta I gotta create something whether that speaks about that fear or that or that manifests that hope back into my life.

Like, either way, I gotta create something to keep pushing it forward, like, to keep going. Because if because if I'm brutally honest and I'm and I talk about, like, how fearful I am, other people may hear that and relate to that, and, like, and then we come together as a group consciousness and and take make change. Or if I manifest the hope side of that, like, the same thing happens, you know? And and that's just such an that's why I love being an artist. Like, it just gives me this opportunity to to be so vulnerable with the world around me, and and then hope that the world around me feels that they are and actually, I really see that, like, in my life.

Like, people are people feel really comfortable with being vulnerable around me. Like, they trust me, and I and I think it's because I feel trustworthy of them. You know? I've learned to to just love God, love the creator, trust God, trust creator, and so trust people. You know?

Like, just trust people and, That's a gift, bro. Yeah. If people can, feel comfortable around you and be be honest and be themselves, like, that's a gift, man. So, yeah, you're doing something right. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you I mean, do you see that in your life? Like, because you're very honest, you're very vulnerable, with your art and just when you're speaking. You know, just when you're talking to people, you're you you put yourself out there. Do you feel that you get the same thing from people back?

I do, generally speaking. Yeah. You know? And it's like you gotta protect yourself too. Like, you can't just go giving your, like, energy and good vibes out to just anybody, because some people ain't ready for it.

And some people, like you know, I guess I find that for the most part, bro, I let other people determine what the relationship is gonna be with me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, I not like, I'm not all 100% Namaste, but, like, I've worked really hard to, like, get rid of my judgment of other people. And that begins with getting rid of your judgment of yourself.

You know, when you're constantly judging other people, it's because you're judging yourself. Or when you're constantly, like, second guessing yourself and judging yourself, it's because you're constantly judging other people. So I've done a lot of work on that over the last ten, fifteen years of my life, you know. And for the most part, I let other people determine what it's gonna be. And I find, like, people either, like, really love me and they really down with me or, like, they really can't fucking stand.

It's like they don't even you realize that they don't even know me. You know what I'm saying? It's like, well, think whatever you want. You know? Feel whatever you feel like you don't even know me.

Right? But, I do my best to provide space for people who I'm close to, whether it's, you know, students, my children, young folks, the homies, you know, lovers, whatever. Like, to provide a space where you could you could be yourself and feel like you're gonna you're gonna be met with, like, tenderness and care. Yeah. You know?

But then it's also like the world is crazy, you know? It's chaos, you know? So it's like, around the next corner, you know, I have to be ready and have to be, like, have my guards up, unfortunately. You know? It's like, yeah.

So it's I don't know. It's constantly being, like Have you had an experience with, like, giving yourself openly to to somebody or and then, like, having that used against you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. On the regular, you know, like or or enough.

I can't say on the regular, but yeah, man. I've been burned by some of the people I I love and care about most and, you know, including recently. And, it just is what it is, man. It's like, you gotta look at your own role in things that go wrong or things that don't work out the way you want them to. You know, you have to look at your own role in it.

Definitely. And then, if you're not being met with the, like, energy that you feel you deserve or people are making decisions that you feel aren't like, aren't loving towards you or aren't respecting you, it's like sometimes you have to just step back and let it be and understand that it's like what somebody else is going through Mhmm. Or what somebody else needs to be doing or that's their part of their journey. And sometimes it's hard to just, like, release and let that go. But, yeah, I think, you know, the more the more vulnerable you are, the more you're gonna be hurt.

You know? And it's just like it just kinda comes with the territory. But so it's like that opens you up to, like, the beauty of life. It opens you up to, like, love and joy. You know?

But it's like, you know, joy is eventually gonna bring pain, and then pain is gonna bring joy. And it's just like, you know, it's like the waves. Like, can you ride the waves? Ride the waves. Can you ride you know?

Can you ride the can you ride the roller coaster without, like, you know, finding yourself, like, getting ejected out of that thing and, like, plunging to your peril? You know what I'm saying? Like, can you can you ride this thing and stay steady and be ready for the next, like, round of of joy and goodness when it comes around, you know, because, like, you are gonna be hurt. You are going to be, sold out, you know, but can you can you stick with what you know is real and and still show up the way that you need to, and be around for, yeah, that next wave of of, of realness, of goodness. Mhmm.

So have you had times where in in hip hop, in, like, your career with with music or just art in general, where you have one of those lows, you know, and you wanna fight that? Like, you wanna you wanna make art that's, like, gonna gonna, maybe appeal more to mass conscious to mass consciousness, like, just so that you can because you're not feeling like you get the you're getting the respect or the recognition that you necessarily deserve, and and you just wanna, like, get out of that. You know, like, how I like how you said it, like, plunging into that peril just a little bit more. Like, alright. Well, I'm fucking if I feel like I'm down here at this huge at this low, then I'm just gonna, like, Creative, creatively speaking, I've, I've tried to kill my ego three different times.

In 2012, I hosted a poetry burial at Su Teatro, in Chicano Performing and Cultural Arts Center. And, I retired the five songs and poems that I was either best known for or that I thought was my best work. Mhmm. And kinda like performed them for a final time, lit them up in flames in like a ceremonial fashion and moved on to the next thing. And then, in 2013, I created this album called Greatest Rapper Never Heard.

And it was like really a play off of like, if you really break it down, just how like ridiculous the whole like game of fame is, you know? Like, and, and some of the dreams that we have as like rappers and hip hop artists, like sometimes it's really, it's really corny and ridiculous. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And it's like it's like I I was like, you know, for as much as I was like, yo, I'm I'm I'm the greatest in my own right, in my own world, and I don't care if I'm never heard.

It It was also like a big joke. You know? It was like satire. Like, I put out 23 tracks, you know, like, number 23 thinking about, like, Michael Jordan and him being the greatest growing up. And, you know, I say, like, maybe, I think it's, like, 14 or 15 of those were, like, were actual songs.

And then there were at least, like, eight skits with the Black Actors Guild where it was, like, it was just kinda clowning rap, clowning myself, clowning this dude Molina Speaks, whoever he is. You know? And it was, like, it was, like, like, he heard the new Molina Speaks album. Like, who the fuck is that? Yeah.

It was a it was a satire throughout the whole thing. And that was one way of just kinda killing killing that aspect of myself that was constantly sizing myself up compared to other people or wanting some kind of, like, fame or recognition within this industry. And then the third one was this album Sex Money Ego, which I put out in 2014. So, yeah, I guess, like, 2012, '20 '13, '20 '14, put out this album, Sex Money Ego, which, like, my boy Icewater, you know, the DJ out in LA, who's had a lot of success in the industry on like his own level. He was, sending me these beats and it was like, damn, like if I ever made a commercial album that broke through, like these would be the beats.

These beats you were sending were hot. And so I decided to make this album Sex Money Ego, where I was really, like, sizing up, like, because everything around me, all the music, everything that was happening, you know, in the culture, like, it was all sex money ego. And I'm like, well, I'm just gonna call it what it is and make that album and put that out. And like, if I were to make a, like, commercially driven album at that time, that was authentic to me. That's what it would be.

That's what it would sound like. And I made it, and put it out, you know, so, you know, at this point, like, I don't really care what my music does, to be honest. Like I've put out so much quality music that at some point something may catch fire. Like, if one song catches fire, it's over. You know what I'm saying?

Like, if one song hits the mainstream, like, you're gonna have this whole body of work, and I think the album sales will, like, you know, like, there will be a lot of success because there's been a lot of quality material that I put out, you know? But that may never happen. And if it doesn't, cool. Or if I'm like, you know, 70 year old Chicano rap legend with braids down to my knees, you know, Like, cool. I'll rock the stage as an old ass man, you know?

Or maybe it doesn't happen in hip hop. Maybe it happens in in film, or maybe it happens, like, in paint, or maybe it never happens. You know? But it's already happened. Like, I've performed for thousands and thousands and thousands of people.

And it don't matter if I'm performing for 10 people at a time, or if I'm, you know, on some stage rocking for 5,000 people, or if I'm reading poetry to, like, a class, or if I'm on a stage, you know, me and my words that's reaching, like thousands of people, like, it doesn't matter. It's like I'm doing, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And so for the most part, Yeah, man, there's a lot of, there's a lot of lows that come from me, like within the creation of art, but it's almost more like on a personal level or cultural level or like community level or just like sometimes when I'm just like blown away by some of the interactions I have with like people that I thought were like homies or collaborators or people that I thought I was like down with where like then things turned funny for some weird reason. And then again, you just have to accept it and be like, that's the shit that they're on. You know?

That's what they're about. That's the interaction they need to have. But I don't necessarily need to, like, buy into it or perpetuate it, you know? But, yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot of highs and lows and, you know, you, you, I think you have this false idea coming into it that like, you know, like everyone's gonna be down because you're all artists or like, oh, it's hip hop. Like, we're all, we're all down for each other.

It's like, nah, It's just as divisive as anything else. And, you just gotta keep it moving. Yeah. I'm I mean, I really have, I really have hopes in in in bringing the hip hop community closer together so that it is it is more interconnected and, like, and not so devised, but, it's hard. I mean, hip hop is just a it's a egotistical art sometimes.

You know? And, and it's easy to get in the way of things. But Good luck. Yeah. I mean, I I mean, it seems to it seems to be going okay, but I mean, I just I mean, I just kinda had, like, a little falling out with with, one of the people that, like, I've had on the show.

You know? And it was it had nothing to do with art. It just had to do with, trying to have a conversation and, like, learn from each other, but ego get getting in the way. And and, like, and the conversation just goes astray and it starts to become like a personal attack. And it's like, well, now, like, I can't fucking I can't even, like, respect you.

Like, I can appreciate that you make good art, but I'm not even gonna push it anymore. You know? Like, I'm not even gonna have your back on it anymore. Like, you just I'm I'm not gonna hate, you know, but I'm not gonna fucking, like, be out here supporting you after you just talk to me the way you talk to me. You know?

Yeah. I've had those I've had those interactions with some homies this year outside of hip hop. Right. Where I was just kinda stunned by, like, experiences I was having with people where it was like, yo, like like, I was giving you money, homie, when you were, like, in need of money. And, like, even beyond the music, like, just trying to be a friend to you, and, like, I thought we were cool.

And then all of a sudden, something weird happens, and you're on some other shit. And, like, what just what just happened? And, you know, again, it's like people just kinda going through their own thing. And a lot of times, they didn't even about you, you know. And, yeah, man.

It's just, you know, it's like this particular plane of existence on planet Earth, like, when you take it beyond all the drama we're experiencing, it's like it's like a mirror for the universe, you know. It's like there's always chaos and destruction, and there's always, like, possibility and creation. And, like, one gives way to the other, you know. And, there's never gonna be complete justice. There's never gonna be complete satisfaction.

There's never gonna be complete, like, equality. There's never gonna be, like, 100%, like, peace. You know? It's always gonna be a balance of things. It's like, where are you within that balance?

Like, where are you? And that's hard, you know? Because we're like, you you don't live on an island. Like, we depend on you know? It's like if you you know a baby that's just you can't fend for yourself, you'll die if you don't have people around you to take care of you.

And as adults, like, you know, if if you're in like, what's the worst punishment, bro? It's like being sent to prison, but not just being sent to prison. Being sent to solitary confinement. That's the that's the ultimate punishment. Yeah.

You know, like and and you go crazy in there. Mhmm. And, like, that's that's like where we send people as like the ultimate punishment other than death, you know? And, and like really think about that. Like we need each other, you know?

And, and in needing each other, we're constantly gonna have like drama and craziness. And you know, even though you can never have that like complete wholeness or complete, you know, I don't know, like, like nothing's ever gonna be ideal, but if you're working on evolving and trying to have good relations and trying to bring people together, like you're doing it, you know, and you're never gonna do it completely. Like you're on this mission to like bridge some of Colorado's like hip hop world, like past and present. I see you doing it. I see you doing it in this podcast And it's like, you're doing it.

And there may never be no Kumbaya moment. And we mean, we may not all, you know, or maybe one day, one day we all pose for like some picture, you know, that's like, like, like one day in Harlem type of picture. It's like one day in Denver type of picture. You know, we're all together, like, you know, like throwing up our fists in the air. Cool.

That was a moment. Yeah. But that moment ain't gonna be, like, forever. Ever. Yeah.

But if you're doing it on any level, like, you are bridging the gap. You are bridging the divide. You are bringing people together. And And that's the important thing to remember. Like, even when things fall off or get weird, like, you're doing it.

Yeah. I'm doing see, I I I just need to hear that every now and then. Like, you're just doing it. And, did you have so did you have somebody that taught you as while you were growing up and, like, and and showed you, like, hey. This is how, like, this is this is how we navigate art, you know, or did you just kinda learn on your own?

Not really. You know? I did have a mentor who, I would say if it wasn't for him, like, I wouldn't be here. Like, I might be in prison or dead or who knows doing what. Mhmm.

But my homie Dominic Martinez, he had this, DJ business called Thres Entertainment, and he was also, like, minority student recruiter at a college. And he took interest in me as, like, when I was in high school. Like, he you know, he'd come to my basketball games, and he'd come visit me and try to take me to, you know, lunch, dinner, and, like, talk to me about the Chicano movement, the civil rights movement. He gave me a copy of the autobiography of Malcolm X. He was like, you know, come to college, come to college, like, I'll give you a job DJing.

You can DJ for me. You know? And I ended up DJing for this dude, you know? And I was like DJing, like, at a young age, DJing in bars, DJing, cultural events, DJing, fraternity and sorority events, you know, DJing events on campus, driving hella miles to DJ, like high school dances, like community celebrations, all kinds of stuff. Like it's what I did my first few years of college and this dude, like he gave me an example early on of like, just how to look out for people, how to take care of people.

Like I, I never intended to be an activist. I never intended to be like an educator or, you know, any of that. Like, but I just kind of learned by example. And, he and I ain't close to the way we used to be. Like our lives went in different, different directions.

And, like, who he is now isn't who he was then. And, you know, I'm definitely not who I was then. Right? But, yeah. I I owe him a lot of, respect and credit for teaching me at a young age, like, just by example, like, what it means to, like, stand up for culture, to stand up for community, and to follow through on your word, you know?

So, so much love, Dominic Martinez. As an artist coming up, you know, I didn't, I don't really have that. And I was, I was actually like, I was actually stunned a lot of times by like some of the response I got to positive things I was trying to do by older artists who I thought would be interested or have my back or if nothing else, like just not be in my way, you know? But that's one of the reasons that youth on record exists is like a lot of us who didn't have that, that mentorship, that guidance, who didn't feel supported, we're like, that doesn't have to continue, and we can we can do something different. Mhmm.

And to me, this this space, this is this is our this is our platinum record. Yeah. It's a $2,000,000 arts facility that serves over a thousand people a year. Students, young people, that gives people a place to, like, come and record and learn instruments and, you know, be inspired and, like get some knowledge and some mentorship that maybe you can't get anywhere else. You know, like this is our platinum record, you know, and so, nah, I didn't really, I didn't really get a lot of what I'm trying to give, But that's why I'm proud to fuck that this thing here exists.

And then people who come through here will in turn do something. They won't do it like I did, but they'll do it like they do. They'll do it in their style. And, like, I'm not doing things the way my homie back when I was, like, late teens, early twenties, Dominic Martinez, the way he did it. But, like, I'm doing it my way because I'm building off of what he showed me.

Mhmm. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, yeah. That that that's, like, powerful to know that when you are doing something in a way that you know is good or right or legit, however you wanna think of it, like, somebody's gonna take that and remake it. They're gonna remix it.

Mhmm. You know, they're they're gonna take what is old, what you have done, and make it new and do it in their style. And just because it looks different doesn't mean that it's, like, wrong. And that's and that's, like, bringing it back to the music. That's why, like, I don't really trip on, like, the new school hip hop.

Like, people like people who say hip hop fell off, it's like, no. Fuck that. Like, shit ain't supposed to sound now the way it did back in the nineties. You know? Like, we think of that as the golden era.

Like, maybe what was being projected on the mainstream in some ways was doper than than it is now. But, like, listen to Kendrick, man. Listen to his album Damn. Like, that album is, like, it's, like, 20 times better than anything Nas put out. And that's not a diss to Nas, but it should be better because it's a new generation.

Because it's twenty years from back then, like, the music should be elevated, you know? Yeah. And it's like, sure. People wanted computers to be the same way they were twenty years ago. Yeah.

Absolutely. You know? And then it's like maybe, you know, maybe aspects of the mainstream, like, completely sold out and it's not really, like, like, driven by artists the way it used to be. Mhmm. But, like, look beyond, like, the handful of artists that are, like, pushed down our throat as though that's the only thing that rap is.

Like, look at the actual, like, spectrum of hip hop that's being created. Like, it is so much more creative than it was twenty years ago, ten years ago. Like, it is off the charts creative. Like, you know, but it's just like, you might have to work a little harder to find it, or the artists who are, like, killing it may may not be making a ton of money off of it, or you might not know their name. Mhmm.

Like, in Denver, if they're doing it in Kansas City or in Kansas City, you don't know who's doing it in LA. Or in LA, you might not know who's doing it in San Antonio. You know what I mean? Like, but it's, like, on a on a smaller scale, like, what's being produced in hip hop now is, like, endlessly better. And it doesn't need to look the way it did back then.

But, like, a lot of old school cats will be upset because it doesn't look like it did then and think that there's nothing good coming out of it, but that's not true. And it's the same thing with, like, the Chicano movement or and, you know, or civil rights movement. It's like shit ain't gonna be done now the way it was done fifty years ago or twenty years ago. That don't mean it's wrong. You know?

It's just on a it's just on a new level, and it's being packaged in a new way. But just because you might not understand it as an older generation, maybe you should have spent more time, like, with the with the young folks. Maybe you should have spent more time listening and being around them to understand that they actually are taking what was done, but they're just doing it in their own way. Mhmm. And that's okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I support that. A %. It it never makes sense to me when people complain about music being what music is or hip hop being what hip hop is today because where I do feel like it's it's a little too money driven and, like, and and maybe not always spreading the best message, like, as far as the the artistic side of it goes, you know, I'm I'm just, like, blown away by it.

I mean, even, like people hate on Drake, you know. And they're like, oh, he's one of the worst rap one of the worst rappers. Like I had a cousin who said who was like, if you say you love hip hop and then say one of your favorite rappers is Drake, then I automatically don't take you serious. And I'm like, why? Like, look at what he's done with his career.

I mean, look at the music he makes. It's beautiful. Like, it's great art. Like, what are you talking about? You know?

I I used to hate Andre. Did you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I've actually come around recently over the last few years to, like, relistening to, like, his catalog and being, like, he has some really good music. He did. He made some really solid contributions to the to the art form. Yeah. Definitely.

Now what I will say is I feel like it's very Kanye inspired. I feel like he takes, like he he listens to Kanye and then just kinda builds off of that because that's who I feel is, like, one of the one of the greatest artists of our generation is Kanye. Just I mean, not every album is, like, is a mate is amazing, but the like, My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, just fuck. That was when he peaked. He did the podcast.

Like, this is such a such a beautiful album. So I'm like, that's how I see Kanye. Right? Like, that there's just that artist. But then people hear that and and they're like, oh, this isn't what hip hop's supposed to be.

I'm like, what are you what are you talking about? So it just doesn't make sense to me a lot of times or like they'll hate on, x x x ten ten Tintacion's music, and I'm like, well or they will say that he's a shitty rapper. And then I'm like, well, now I know that you didn't even listen to his music, you know, because he's not a shitty rapper at all. He's actually extremely talented. But one of my points is also that, like, if you're if you're not into some of that Yeah.

There's, like, millions of other artists who are now accessible in a way that they weren't twenty years ago Yeah. Or even ten years ago. True. Like, ten years ago when I was doing this DIY hip hop thing, it was kinda, like, it was kinda unique. You had to be on the streets for the kids.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I I sold albums, you know, in CD form and actually made money, like, on the streets all throughout The United States. And and I would have, like, gigs, you know, doing, like, open mic nights, hip hop nights, DJ nights, spoken word nights in cafes.

Like, I could literally, like, leave that gig with, like, $200 in my pocket from selling albums and chatbooks. And, you know, that that era is far gone. You know, it's it's difficult to do that now. Like, people just don't buy like, you you you'd sell t shirts and make $200 hella quicker than actually selling your, like, CDs. You know?

Like, it just ain't like that anymore. But, yeah. I mean, I would say, like, the the range of creativity that's out there now and accessible is, like, if you don't like something you see on TV or on the charts, like, there's, like, millions of artists who are doing something different. And and something that I love about, like, artists that surround me and artists I know who, like, aren't famous. Even my even my 16 year old son recently was, like, you know, why is it that artists are so much better, like, when they first come out and then they get worse?

But when I look at the people around me and the people who are, like, just really having to put in, like, the hustle and creativity without a label, oftentimes without management, like, we get better and better. Mhmm. Like, our shit gets better over time. Like, it doesn't you know, it's not like we just put out an album or a couple of singles that are hot, and then we fall off because we got too distracted with everything else that comes with fame and money. Like, we have to work to keep the creativity going, to keep the ecosystem, to keep, like, to keep this train moving.

You know? And and the and the art gets better over time. And that's something that I love and appreciate about, like, I don't even say underground artists, like, an independent artist. Like, a lot of independent artists get better with time, not worse. And so if there's anything that you're looking at in the mainstream now that you're, like, unhappy with, like, just look beyond it.

Find something else. And also appreciate some of what the mainstream is doing. Mhmm. I mean, some of it is, like, you know, I ain't down with. But I am really here to, like, to go that route.

I spent a lot of time doing that when I was younger, and it's, like, it's pointless. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And and and I hope that this podcast serves as that for our community. You know? Like, they can if somebody's not happy with what they're hearing, they can listen to this podcast, get introduced I've learned about new Denver Artists through, you know, through your podcast each day.

Yeah. It's fresh. I mean, because that that's who, I mean, that's who I get my inspiration from, you know. Well, I mean, yes. I I listen to the to the mainstream music and and I mean Nas was like a huge factor in me even starting to write, you know, or, or Biggie was a huge factor in me starting to make music.

Or I'll listen to the mixes and the masters that go behind mainstream music and and take pieces from that. But the people who have challenged me to better myself, not only as as an artist, but just on a personal level and, like, and and how I give to the community are are the people I know personally. The peep the artists that I know personally, the ones that that make music independently because they love it, or the painters that make art independently because they love it. Because that shit's hard too, dude. Like like, these like, these painters fucking just spend all their time painting this art, and then nobody wants to buy their $300 painting because that's $300.

And they're like, well, why would I spend $300 on this painting? But they keep doing it, and then because they're fucking waiting on a dream job. I got this homie who's 71 years old, Stefan Lucero. He's a Chicano arts fine arts legend. He does, like, a neo Colombian, like like, pre Spanish, like, Aztec, but new school Aztec art, and then he does this art called meta realism.

He called it meta realism, which is like you know, like surrealism is all about the mind and the, you know, like, what exists in the mind beyond what we think of as reality. But metorealism brings in, like, the spirit and, like, the metaphysical nature of the universe, and that's his art. And this dude, man, like, go to this dude's home, bro, he's sitting on like 300 paintings, dude. And like his home is like a, it's like a, it's like a museum, bro. It's like his art is everywhere.

And like you could look at images of it online, but like to actually see it in person, bro, like it's it's the most wondrous thing, dude. And this dude is a living legend. And like his paintings are like selling for like $300 4 hundred dollars 5 hundred dollars And he's just sitting on a ton of paintings. And like when he dies, I mean 20 from now bro, like a Stevon Lucero, like I guarantee you, like people are gonna look at him like, like a Van Gogh. You know?

Like a Picasso. Like he's the living Chicano Picasso. You know what I'm saying? Like, and, and, and a lot of people don't even know. And he's just like this, like, you know, like this 70 year old, like Chicano with long hair, just walking around the North Side still.

Still calling it the North Side because it ain't the Highlands to him. The Wilkie Islands. It's the North Side. You know what I'm saying? But it's like, this dude is, like, a legend, a living legend.

And and you won't and you won't know it for for years, but the Smithsonian is already collecting his art. Mhmm. And he's just sitting on it, you know? And and one day, he will be, like, in that echelon, but, like, but that ain't what it's about. And the only thing this dude's done is paint for the last fifty years.

This dude don't even touch email. He don't touch computers. He just he just he don't get it. He don't want anything to do with it. Like, his wife bro, like, like, his wife handles all of his, his, like, email communication and all of that.

He just the only thing he's done is paint, bro. And, like, he has created an entire universe of works that is going to, like, blow this world away someday. So if, you know, anybody who's come in contact with him, seen his work, interacted with him, like, you're blown away. You're like, I've just interacted with, like, like, like a living God, like a godly figure. You know what I'm saying?

And, like, his work is driven by his quest to understand God, universe, source. But, yeah, one day it will blow up and be bigger. And whatever your whatever your thing is, you know, it may be painting. It may be, you know, it may be cooking. You know what I'm saying?

Like, you know, you if you're out there listening to this podcast, whatever your thing is, even if you just do that one thing and perfect it and become a master at it, like, you will you will fulfill your purpose on this planet. Right. And that's where to the skateboarders that are skating right outside the studio right now, perfecting their craft. Hell yeah. Yeah.

Hell yeah. Doing something useful with your time, whatever you determine to be useful. Yeah. Okay. So somebody may hear this and they're like, like, alright.

We started off with this song called Fuck Waiting on a Dream. Like like, go get your dream. Go live in a dream right now at this moment. But then they also hear you say, you know, like, the huge visions that you have for yourself and your art may never come into fruition. So and and I know personally that, like, you found a way to navigate that, specifically referring to your reference of, like, your rice and beans versus your filet mignon.

Right? So why don't you talk before we get into the the next song that we're gonna listen to, talk a little bit about how you've approached, being able to fund yourself through art without without always having these high expectations of of, like, the ultimate goal coming into fruition right away. No. I don't have any ultimate goals. That's that's part of my key to success.

Alright. Alright. Because I I released, I released any, like, meta goals. Okay. Like, just doing the thing.

Right. Just being in process. You know? So every opportunity that comes and every, like, evolution in my creativity, like, every new big collaboration I get to do Yeah. You know, it's like, that's the dream and that's the goal.

And so it's, you know, it's like for me, like, in terms of making a living off my art, like, my art isn't just the music I make. Mhmm. It's not just the poems that I write. Mhmm. It's not just the painting I do.

It's not just the events. Like, it's like every single moment of my life, like my cooking, my parenting. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, the way I move through the world, like, the way I talk, the way I think. Like, I'm rooted in creativity.

Like, culture is power. Creativity is power. And that's my commitment to doing something every day to evolve my creativity. Even if nobody sees it, like it's just for me. You know?

And it's like, it's not just for show. This is my life. You know? And so, like, music itself has never made a ton of money. You know?

Like, I've I don't know. I'd say I probably made over $10,000 off albums sold over the course of time, which is nothing. You know what I mean? It's like that's not even a full year of rent. Yeah.

You know? But, yeah, I made some money off my music. I've, I've licensed some music. I've, you know, sold some of my music to be, in, like, film or documentaries, and those have been cool moments. I made some money off my performances.

But it's more so, like, it's part of my, like, my ecosystem. And it's like, if it wasn't for the music and the creativity that I'm constantly working on that inspires people or intrigues people, a lot of the other things that come wouldn't happen. Like, I wouldn't be collaborating with the Denver Art Museum. Mhmm. I wouldn't be running a fellowship program for young artists.

I wouldn't be collaborating with the Museum of Contemporary Art. I wouldn't be on the, you know, community advisory board for Meow Wolf. I wouldn't be collaborating with them on future projects. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, I wouldn't be getting paid to, like, do, events at universities.

I wouldn't be paid consulting fees to help institutions figure out how to do things more equitably or how to, you know, change the culture of, like, their spaces. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's a lot of things that come that it's, like, it's not to make music or to perform music, but, like, without the creative life that I live and the inspiration that, like, you know, spreads and flowers about, that pollinates, like, the things that come around that dupe, sometimes a lot better than the music, those things wouldn't exist, you know, but it's when you're walking when you're walking your path, when you're living your truth, when you're doing your thing, opportunities come, like you're creating opportunities out of thin air that, like, is gonna look different than you thought. It's not gonna look exactly what you thought it was gonna be, but it will come around if you plant the seeds. Like, the, you know, it's like the the garden will grow.

The trees will the, you know, the trees will grow from this little seed. It will happen. You just gotta believe in it and and keep doing it, and it will come around. So, yeah, I think that's, like, a big part of it is just, like, wholeheartedly committing myself to my passion and doing it every day and being open to the opportunities that come even if they look different. Like, I've, like, opened for a lot of big name artists, you know.

I've been on the bill with people like Immortal Technique, De La Soul, Lupe Fiasco, you know, The Last Poets, like, legendary acts. That actually never made any money. You know, and I could've chased that for the rest of my life being an opener. And, you know, it's not to diss anybody who who does that. Like, that's a legit thing.

Like, that was an important part of my process was, like, sharing the stage with legends and being like, I have something just as dope as what they have. It's different, but I have something to offer just like that. But, like, if that's the only way I saw success Be fucked. All the other shit that's come about that is amazing, like, I wouldn't have even been open to. Yeah.

Because I was just chasing this one thing that I thought it was supposed to be, but it was actually something else. You feel what I'm saying? Yeah. So, so just staying open. Answers your question.

Yeah. Just staying open. A lot of it is just just staying open. You know? Just being open to, like, the possibilities, the opportunities, the blessings that come, and and not being so driven by, like, a single-minded way of thinking about your success or, like, you know, being caught up in your own, like, ego or, you know, like, allowing yourself to, like, explore.

And this ain't just for artists. It's like whatever you do in life, whatever your thing is, like, don't one dimensionalize yourself. Because if you one dimensionalize yourself, you're gonna miss something that that pops up that is, like, amazing, breathtaking, revolutionary that could change your whole life. But if you don't see it, it disappears. You know?

So, yeah, you gotta you gotta be open and, work to see the gifts that come, even if they come in a package that you didn't expect. And that that's with respect to people, opportunities, you know, places. Like, there's just things that are gonna come up, where it's like if you're tuned in and you're listening to your spirit or the ancestors or the dreams or God or whatever the fuck you is, that whatever it is that you listen to, like, if you're listening, the messages are gonna come. But a lot of times, we're we're so numbed out, tuned out, and in our despairs or our fears that we ain't open to the messages. But the messages are there.

Great. Thank you. Is that a good introduction to the song, or do you need to give an intro to the song as well? This is, Find My Way, also produced by DJ Ice Water, also featuring the homie Mawle. Let's get it.

Find my way. There is no time, no time. There is no time for me to fail. I know I'm a find my way. I'm a find my way.

I know I'm a find my way. I'm a find my way. I know I'm a find my way. There is no time, no time. There is no time for me to fail.

I feel a pressure build. You're tidy inside. There's a swelling. You're tired of your love in I know I'm a find my way. I'm a find my way.

I know I'm a find my way. I'm a find my way. There is no time for me to affair. There is no time for me to affair. Shouting at a guy with a name in the face, not a trace that his fake friends fuck you.

Like you ain't seen me going through the struggle after giving them all in your town lives that ain't true. Like you ain't seen me in the crib again for the kids. All the love that I gave life that I led, people that I fed. Heartbreak, half truth, half story, but you leave your brother here for dead. But it's my love, my life, my legacy, my home, my dreams, my gold, my passion, my line of face, my legend to resolve, my time to evolve, take action.

Calamities in space, time, and time, fucking rap rhyme when it all falls down. Fuck the game and the ball. While my story's getting told, you can speak about the love that I hold through the storms. Treat my son like a king's daughter like a queen. Show my seeds like a something called the spirit that will live beyond our dreams.

See if my nerves rebirth to another dream in time. We'll see souls worth it. There is no time for me to fail. There is no time, no time. There is no time for me to fail.

Thank you very much for that. Thank you for coming out. Is, is there any last words that you wanna share with us? Anything that you wanna, plug or or just, positivity you wanna spread, anything like that? I wanna say thank you to Jesus Rodriguez Mhmm.

Over there in the booth. I guess behind the boards. We're in the in the booth, so to speak. Yeah. But, Jesus, he recorded, engineered both of, the sessions for Waiting on a Dream and Find My Way.

And, this man has recorded, probably three, four dozen songs for me at this point over the years, you know. And I know he's recorded a lot of artists just kinda behind the scenes quietly, doing his creativity and making things, you know, come to be, helping things come to be. So, yeah, shout out to Jesus and all the Jesuses of the world who are just running around, behind the scenes helping other people make their dreams come true. Hope everything, comes around for you the way that you wish it to be, Jesus. And, thank you Juice.

I'm a fan, homie. And, I respect what you're doing. And I'm honored to be, like I'm honored to be part of this, man. Like, it's a it's a it's a big honor, so thank you for having me. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate you. I'm a fan of you and, an appreciator of you as well. So thank you for coming out and being a part of.

And, yeah, I wanna reiterate. Thank you to Jesus Rodriguez, for always holding it down. Always. Thank you to Youth On Record for opening the doors, and, thank you guys for listening. Be sure to tap into that free music for free people website, fm,thenumberfour,fp.com, Free People TV.

Yeah. Just check it out. We got some good things going on. Fuck waiting on the dream. Most speaks powerful knowledge.

XP.