Career Cheat Code
Welcome to Career Cheat Code, a podcast that explores the stories of everyday people making an impact in the world through their careers and loving every minute of it. Whether you're already on your path or searching for your purpose, this podcast is for you.
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Career Cheat Code
060 | The Path to Social Work feat. Tonika Boston, LCSW, SIFI
Tonika Boston's journey into social work is one of resilience, mentorship, and transformative experiences. At just 23, Tonika's first day at Planned Parenthood in NYC set her on a path that would shape her career. Join us as Tonika recounts these pivotal moments and shares how her dedication to social welfare began. Her story is a moving testament to the power of education and the impact of mentors who believe in you.
Growing up as a first-generation American in Brooklyn, Tonika faced significant challenges, including a severe speech disability. With her mother's relentless advocacy, she navigated a fluctuating educational landscape, moving from special education classes to honors programs. This chapter highlights the stigmas and triumphs of the early '90s educational system, shedding light on how these experiences laid the foundation for her eventual roles as a clinician, teacher, and city consultant.
From the rigorous pathway to becoming a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) to the strategic job choices that shaped her career, Tonika offers #CareerCheatCode's for aspiring social workers. She discusses the financial realities, the importance of intentional career decisions, and the rewarding transition into teaching. Whether you're considering a career in social work or seeking inspiration from a story of perseverance and passion, Tanika's journey offers practical advice and heartfelt reflections on making a meaningful impact.
If you enjoyed this episode, please like, rate, and subscribe to this podcast on whatever platform you’re using, and share this podcast with your friends and your networks. For more #CareerCheatCode, visit linktr.ee/careercheatcode. Let's make an impact, one episode at a time!
Host - Radhy Miranda
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Producer - Gary Batista
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And I ended up having an amazing professor there, dr Stephen Pimper, who really I took social welfare and policy with him and it was just like where the hell was this my entire life Like? And we went through the history of, like the history of the United States, the policies that are in place, how social work has benefited so many aspects of our lives place, how social work has benefited so many aspects of our lives and how social work also gives space to still work on the individual self in their own self-actualization. And to see these components of what I wanted to do that I didn't have the educational awareness for when I was a kid. Seeing how this professor taught this class and with such passion and vigor and inspiring me like this is where I want to be at, it made me really cement like I want to be and it made me really cement like I want to apply to do the program.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Career Cheat Code. In this podcast, you'll hear how everyday people impact the world through their careers. Learn about their journey, career hacks and obstacles along the way. Whether you're already having the impact you want or are searching for it, this is the podcast for you.
Speaker 1:All right Hi.
Speaker 2:Hey, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Appreciate it. I'm excited to talk about you and your career path today. Let's you know, let's dive right in, let's tell the world what it is you do for a living.
Speaker 1:Okay, my name is Tanika Boston. I am by license, a licensed clinical social worker by masters of social work and currently I have my own private practice. I am a mental health clinician, I work as a professor and I also consult with the city.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Is this what you wanted to do for a living when you were younger?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was interesting when I was thinking about this question. I think it's one of those things where you know what you want to do but you don't know the platform you're going to do it on. If that makes sense, right. And so for me, I think I've always had this love for like people and just general, I've always had this love for wanting to help people. But, if I'm being real with you, I didn't know what that path looks like. I feel that throughout my own journey in life and even education, it kind of aligned social work, aligned at a very at a point where I wasn't sure where I was supposed to be. But then everything made sense when I was exposed to it and then it kind of clicked and then I was kind of like love that first sight when I finally saw it. And then for me that was a path from deciding how am I going to actualize wanting to be this person in the world and a profession that made sense to me and aligned with me?
Speaker 2:Got it and you mentioned. You know it made sense to you once you were exposed. When were you actually exposed to it?
Speaker 1:When I was 23. When were you actually exposed to it? When I was 23. It's interesting because you're you're technically always exposed to social work, but like something that clicks for you is when you see it in a different light. And so for me, I was first exposed to it at 23.
Speaker 1:Um, on my very first day working as a clinical counselor at planned parenthood, new york city, and on my very first day I ended up shadowing the social workers and not the other counselors, and that kind of changed my whole trajectory of how I saw social work. But if I be real with you, I started to have a conversation about social work, like maybe a couple weeks before I started that job, with another Le Moyne alum who was also considering social work and him really educating me more on it. So that one time I saw it in person it felt like this makes sense. And now it was like, from that decision, how am I going to manifest that as a career? And finding out more about it. And I think that was my first journey into really understanding the field, but understanding who I want to be in the field.
Speaker 2:That makes sense, okay, so you said a lot there, so let's backtrack and let's talk about where you actually grew up. You ended up growing up seeing and kind of thinking about. So where were you born and raised?
Speaker 1:So I was born and raised in Brooklyn, new York. I'm first generation, like the first to be born in my family from Guyana, south America, and I, if I'm being real with you, I kind of grew up with a mom that was like my first advocate in life. And I grew up at a time Brooklyn, new York, crown Heights at that at a time where you're a first generation American and the only thing you know to make it in this world is through education, right. But then I was also a child who had a disability. I had an extremely bad speech disability that many people actually don't know about in my life, and my mom, being really young herself and not really knowing the system for some reason, found the resources for me to have early intervention. She took me to the hospital to have me evaluated and then found early intervention, so I started school at three, for it specifically.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay. So it's fascinating, right, because you know us growing up in different neighborhoods, especially like growing up in like New York City, right, disability, and that can limit you, that can harm your, your motivation to learn, your desire to be in an environment, right, or fear of either having people make fun of it or you just not feeling confident enough to really be in that space. But you mentioned your mom was your biggest advocate, right? So having someone like that, that nurtured that environment for you and wanted to, like, get you all of the best, uh, support early on in services is is, you know, I'm sure, retro, like retrospectively, like remarkable for, like, the work that you're able to do now yeah, I think you know something.
Speaker 1:When she there's an event that, what now? Especially now in my role as a teacher, that I recognized that. It was kind of like a pact she and I made at when I turned six. But back then, when you had a disability, more than likely you're replaced in like special education for it right, and a lot of times people conflate intelligence with disability, as if if you have a disability, you are not an intelligent person. And and I think especially this is like I went to school in like Bed-Stuy Brooklyn early 90s.
Speaker 1:So I feel like the education awareness that we have now was not existent back then and so I was placed in like a very restrictive sped class from kindergarten and first grade and I remember my mom. The teacher told my mother I think you should have to re-evaluate it. I don't think she belongs, she doesn't belong here because she yeah, she doesn't belong intelligent. Why she doesn't belong in this class and my mother at that time? Cause she's in the.
Speaker 1:My mother is a young mama in her twenties, and I think when people look at like a young mom, immigrant, you automatically tell them what their kid needs, versus what you know as their advocate, as their parent what your kid needs.
Speaker 1:And so I remember her battling, having a kind of like having an argument with this bed coordinator, special education coordinator at that school, who was a white man, and he didn't believe her when he told, when she told him I think you should reevaluate my kid, and he finally relented and had me reevaluated and on that test she actually told me this this year, but at that time my testing was testing above average for my grade level.
Speaker 1:So for them it went from like, okay, we had a very restrictive spec class and not having to put her in our honors class, my mother had pulled me out of school and put me in another school after that, but because we had moved, but that I think was a defining moment in regards to her. The way she advocated for me to be re-evaluated because I would have been classified as something that I was not, and seeing that with her I think put a seed within me or to that I've come to see very present in my life now as a professional but also as a person, and even the way that I come into a classroom and teach social work, and so I think that for me was a very defining moment and seeing how a young person can, even if you don't know the system correctly, that when you are passionate enough to advocate for your love in this case, my mom with me that change can happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, were you an only child.
Speaker 1:No, I had a younger brother, but in regards to that, he was also back in Guyana.
Speaker 2:Got it Okay. So growing up here, young mother trying to advocate for you. So tell me about what happens when you fast forward a little bit First. Did you end up? Did the reassessment lead time I tested above like in high in my grave up?
Speaker 1:and so it was able to be able to transfer me out from a sped class to a honors gen class, which is two different, completely different teaching styles, learning styles, all that. So I went from one end to the other end and that was an extremely, extremely hard transition for me. I think back on it now. It's like how do you anticipate a kid from learning from this style and this pace to now, like she, you're giving her this high pace, high, intense, like very academically driven class that she's never been exposed to? And so that was, I remember, being a very jarring experience. And then the school that I was transferred to, my, had re-evaluated me again not re-evaluated me, but the teacher for that class has said that I'm not performing well in that class and then had me transferred to a lesser class, like a less academically rigorous class, and then I stayed in that level for like second grade, third grade, and then that teacher had advocated for me to be placed back in an honors class. And so, yeah, my form, I think about my elementary school education was always like this up and down because of a disability, and I still had outside speech therapy too on the side. But to have me in a class that aligned to like my intelligence, was like a process, up until I will say, I went on to middle school.
Speaker 1:Did you like school? I did. Actually, I love school. I still love school. I feel like school for a place was for me, where I learned and absorbed everything and I always loved learning. So, even to this day, I feel like when people say that I'm an expert, I feel like I'm just a forever student. That's just always learning say that I'm an expert.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm just a forever student. That's just always learning. And so, and even in this, like, even though I'm teaching, I'm still learning. I'm still learning different ways to teach, I'm still learning different material, I'm still learning even different techniques that I didn't know as a student, right? So I'm always learning something new. So, but it's interesting, you say that because I have thought about pursuing my doctorate and I put that dream on hold for the time being because I'm so exhausted from school. So it's like it's a two in one. But I love learning. I feel like the evolution of people is like you have to learn in life, and that helps you grow and evolve.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Okay. So tell me, tell me about your, tell me about your time in high school, right? So fast forward. After all these ups and downs through elementary school, then you go through middle school, you get to high school. Are you back in a less rigorous classroom, Are you still in honors class and what are you thinking about your future looking like after graduation?
Speaker 1:So high school was also a very formative experience. I went to high school in Bed-Stuy Boys and Girls High School at a time that was pre-gentrification, and so the high school itself wasn't seen as rigorous, but the programs I was placed within that high school were as rigorous as you can for that school, if that makes sense, whatever resources were available for that school I had access to because I was seen as a high-performing student. The middle school I went to was a specialized middle school that you had to take a test for. So for me I had that experience. It was kind of yeah, I think like Brooklyn Tech, but think Brooklyn Tech LaGuardia was for middle school, phillipa Skylar Middle School, and so for me that was a very form foreign experience that transitioned me into having high performing classes in high school. But this again, the school I went to didn't have the resources I feel like some people would have had, but they did the best they had they could was college always in your plans during high school?
Speaker 1:yeah, I had no choice.
Speaker 1:Okay, that was the reason why I said I had no choice. I want to explain that. I think that when you are on a certain path, right, and my mother, you know, went on like my mother was the example. My mother went on to get her nursing degree. My mother went on to do her master's in nursing. She's a nurse practitioner now. Right, my mother set a standard for me to follow in regards to being disciplined and it's something she's always instilled in me. So for me, it was like I'm going to college like and because of the track and the, the group I was in with all the honor students. That was a, that was a automatic expectation of us. We're going to college. We were literally separated into like a college track. So that was the expectation when we yeah, that was what. You're going to college, that's it.
Speaker 2:Got it Okay, so let's let's get to. Where'd you end up going to school? This is the place where we ended up meeting. Spoiler alert and tell me more about what you, what you wanted to study, what you ended up studying while you were there.
Speaker 1:So when I started college I went to Le Moyne College, syracuse, new York. And when I started college I started as a history major and I wanted to do my PhD in history, originally because I felt at the time that history can tell us where human development was going. And so I started off as a history major with a minor in psychology and another minor in gender women's studies. To go back to the high school thing for a second, I think in high school I struggled to figure out what I wanted to do, because I was such a bright kid that for me it was like I could do many things and so it was kind of like I don't really know what I want to do besides just help people. So I thought at the time, because I loved history so much, I was so good at it, I should think about maybe going into a field that would cultivate being able to be more of an academic in that. And then I started up as a history major and then by my junior year realized that I was not. Personally I was not a history major. I had a really great advisor who was my history advisor, dr Blazak, that had by my junior year I had a class with her and some of my papers she would read and she's like it just sounds from a very. It's a good paper but it sounds like very psychological With Dr Blazak.
Speaker 1:Another thing too, to give context to LeMoyne history itself as a field is a very white male driven field and so for me that was also made me feel very out of the box, especially with some of the classes I had. And there was one class I had, historiography and historical methods research. That was a seminar class. That was just. I was the only Black woman in that class and it was like 10 of us and most of them were white men and in that class I was being taught by a white woman professor and in that class in particular, they would ignore me when I would speak up, like blatantly ignore me, like I would contribute, no one would say anything. I would give some challenge, no one would say anything, and the professor was not a good facilitator in that racial conflict.
Speaker 1:And I remember I guess Dr Blazak was my advisor at the time and I remember going to her about it Not so that I think I need to drop the no matter of fact just about my struggles in that class, in that class and I remember as this was my first time seeing what an ally looked like in a white woman I remember telling her this about my experience in that class and I don't know if I was cut out to be in this field and she told me to drop the class. She was very upset and she was very straight up with me. So I don't know if you're being treated that way because you're a woman or because you're Black or because of both, but I need you to drop the class and take it with me the next. And I did, and so I think for me that was like my first thought Am I supposed to be in this field?
Speaker 1:Because I came to realize the lens of history is about the victor writing a story, and when I took it with Dr Blade at the following year, I really realized I was not a history major. I skipped her class for two weeks with her assignment and one day she called me into her office, sat me down. I said it's interesting with you, tamika, that you were in my class for two weeks, but one of your assignments you were one of the few people who answered the question correctly and you weren't there, and the way you answer these questions from a very psychological point of view and I see that with a lot of your papers. So she sent me. She said I think you need to be evaluated if this is the major for you. So she made an appointment for me to go to career services and had me take a test there and they told me you should have never been a history major in the first place Wow.
Speaker 1:They said to me that that was the first thing I should have done. So they gave me a list. In hindsight they did list social work as a field I kind of went into. They list sociology, psychology, they listed education. They listed a few fields that were very people-centered that I could go into, and so I had switched my major from history to psychology. And then that's history of my minor and that's what I graduated with a psychology degree.
Speaker 2:This was junior year when you switched Wow. So I hear you. I I also switched majors, probably twice and then ended up with like a dual major because I still didn't know what I wanted to do. Um, so you know, but going three years through school and then pivoting from a, it's a pretty drastic, pivot right history to psychology, like that's yeah that psychology. That's a big shift. Did you find those courses inherently I don't even want to say easier, but more like they resonated with you?
Speaker 1:I did, but I felt something was missing. And then my final semester, college, I took a sociology class and everything made sense. Everything made sense from a sociological perspective. But then I wish my last semester I had known that, because there was a historical component to sociology that I had wanted in history, and then pairing that with psychology, I didn't realize that there was an actual field that combined all of that together. And I didn't discover that until I worked at Planned Parenthood.
Speaker 2:Got it Okay. So you graduated, was Planned Parenthood your first job out of college?
Speaker 1:My first job out of college. So I didn't find a job right away. And so my first job out of college and I did get one was with the College of Mount St Vincent and I was an admissions rep there. And then, because I still wanted to work in, I still wanted to work with like HEOP, EOP, I wanted to work with like maybe me based programs in higher ed, and so I ended up getting a job there, ended up doing a lot of like admissions, admissions work, but then it's like this is not where I want to be, and then that was a short term contract and then I left and like a couple months after that's when I started working at Planned Parenthood.
Speaker 1:For those that don't know what is HEOP and EOP so HEOP, for those that don't know, higher Education Opportunity Program and Educational Opportunity Program. Eop is specifically with state-based institutions like Stony Brook University of Binghamton, new Albany, and Higher Education Opportunity Programs are specific to private institutions. So that could be like Le Moyne right. Le Moyne right, are you a HOP?
Speaker 2:I am. I am a very proud HOP student, HOP graduate.
Speaker 1:See, look at that. This is the investment of HOP right. Hop gives equity, provides an equitable space for students who come from the underprepared, the underprivileged, the under-resourced schools that didn't have the same preparation as someone who would come in on a regular admission right, and more so like, especially in like predominantly white institutions. And so HOP gives an equitable leg up in regards to access to institutions that would not have been applicable according to the resources that student had to be successful in their secondary education. And so HOP.
Speaker 1:I, when I was at Lone Lion, I did work with HOP. I was not an HOP student, I was a regular admissions student, but I loved HOP as a program. Many of my friends were in HOP and you know, and I felt like that was something that seemed to align in regards to being a kid from Brooklyn, seeing how a lot of the people who I knew were bright didn't have the same support as me because I had a mom, because I had a family that were, I had teachers who were on my neck all the time, compared to people who I knew were so bright but didn't have the same resources right and we. And that's a privilege, unfortunately. That's a privilege to have when you when it comes to Black and Brown youth, when that support system at home doesn't keep you on track, and so I always found HOP to be such an accountable program.
Speaker 1:When it came to like that self-fulfilling prophecy I'm not going to be good enough, or like I don't feel like I could like be successful here and you have the, you have. I would call like the, the, the team, and that is that team and that backing, it's like no, we're going to keep you going until the end, right, and I think, like those programs really planted a seed for the need for equity and inclusion within, like, amongst us, for us in this society yeah, and that's.
Speaker 2:You know, that team is both the professional staff that is working there, but also the cohort of students. They just kind of band together and look out for each other and push each other, wake each other up for classes, make sure that they go to the library, and all the and all the things. So you know, I definitely appreciated my, my time atOP. Okay, so tell me about Planned Parenthood. When you got there, what was your role there? What were you trying to do?
Speaker 1:So Planned Parenthood came from a LeMoyne Connect and a LeMoyne Connect that I used to tutor, whose mom had a position there, and so they were looking for a new counselor and I at the time, like someone another person from LeLoyne had, amanda, had connected me to that person and then that person then hooked me up with, like connected me to their mom, and then that was when the whole interviewing process happened.
Speaker 1:I got hired my very first day. I will kid you not, I guess I always remember the April 19th, 2011 is when I started, and that is when I observed my first clinical session from, like, a very therapeutic point of view, from um, my supervisor at the time, one of my supervisors at the time and to see that this is what social work did in terms of taking someone's pain and grief and not being able to know, like not being able to know a decision to make for their lives and the grief with that, with that heaviness, and seeing how this person helped transition them from such a grief to a place of acceptance and understanding. I found that to be so powerful and it felt like it clicked. This is where you're supposed to be. And then, as I continued to observe more social workers and eventually my long-term supervisor, slash mentor Vilma. They inspired me to want to consider social work and Vilma was very instrumental in getting me into social work school.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, okay, so what were those kind of first steps that led you to that Like, how did you actually like it's one thing to learn about social work and feel like you want to do something in the space. It's another thing to actually like get yourself on track to do that. So how'd you do that?
Speaker 1:so when I started working on Planned Parenthood, like the clinical program I was working in, had like social work interns and had people coming in and so I was always working with them and I was always training them already. And so when Vilma and I were talking about me considering social work as a career path because a lot of my work was counseling, giving different types of counseling options counseling, abortion counseling, crisis counseling but I was crisis counseling. So Vilma, who trained me, what time, like you have, you're really good at this and I think you should consider social work. And she, the first step she told me to do was I don't think you should take it as a do not apply for programs. Yet she said take non-matriculated classes first, because studying social work and working in social work are two different things, and so studying social work as a science is vastly different than working in the field of social work. And she said you'll understand what you're actually in school, why. Why we're very protective of saying when someone says they're a social worker and they're not, because there's so much that goes into actually studying the field of social work compared to just working in a subsection of that actual field. And so Vilma encouraged me to.
Speaker 1:I ended up doing two classes at Hunter Silverman School of Social Work and I ended up having an amazing professor there, dr stephen compare, who really I took social welfare and policy with him and it was just like where the hell was this my entire life like?
Speaker 1:And we went through the history of, like the history of the united states, the policies that are place, how social work has benefited so many aspects of our lives and how social work also gives space to still work on the individual self in their own self-actualization, and to see these components of what I wanted to do that I didn't have the educational awareness for it when I was a kid. Seeing how this professor taught this class and with such a passion and vigor and inspiring me like this is where I want to be, and it made me really cement like I want to apply to do the program for um, yeah, to do the full program got it and isn't it great when you can have some guidance and some folks that you can look to that can help outline what things could look like right?
Speaker 2:I remember when I was younger you know very much talking to people in philanthropy and just, first of all, the exposure that that's a field that resonated with me, and then two understanding kind of what are some of the steps that you can do to get there and like, similarly with you right, to be able to work with people that can not only make their careers make sense to you, then have you see yourself in that space and then say, okay, here's how we can actually implement some steps. So you know, I think the importance of whether formally or informal mentors that can really help us shape our career paths is super important. So, yeah, so tell me about kind of what, where was the program that you actually ended up going into full-time and how long did that take? All the things about the program.
Speaker 1:So I ended up going to NYU. The School of Social Work Shout out to NYU. I mean, I teach at another school, but NYU is always going to be for me, home when it comes to that. I ended up getting into NYU's program, and the program, the track I ended up doing, was a reduced residency program Because I was already working in social work. It's an option for those who are already in the field, where, instead of taking two field placements, or two clinical placements you can only do.
Speaker 1:You can do one. However, with the program it's three years instead of two years to accommodate for your work schedule, and so my at the time Planned Parenthood had to really sign off on that on their end, to say that they would be able to support me through this process. And in my final year, which was my third year, they were supposed to then give me a different role, to learn a different skill set, which did not happen. Like my third year came and they were like, yeah, so we can't think of anything, and there was a lot of restructuring at the time. So I always want to say that, that there was a lot going on. So I think that I flew under the radar and by the time my third year came up, it was like, oh, we don't know what to do with you, and so for me it came down to like, do I stay at this job or do I take the L and finish my third year?
Speaker 1:Because I worked really hard to get to this point, and so I left Planned Parenthood and what one thing I will say that NYU did for me which was a it's a rare occurrence is that they found me a field placement that paid me and I ended up having, but it was a field placement that had other components to it and it was it was through visiting the service of New York at that time where I was in a pilot program of working in an interdisciplinary team with a nurse practitioner and a nurse practitioner student from the nursing school at the university and we would kind of like triage together and going into homes to triage clients together me from the social work, clinical aspect and them from more so of like a physiological aspect and medication management.
Speaker 1:And so we did that in Harlem, we did that in Washington Heights, we did that in some parts of like Midtown, which was a very informative experience. But because it was a pilot program, the initiative was that they'll give us like money for it. So shout out to NYU for that, because it did help, especially having to transition from working a full-time job to like having to be a student full-time and I had to be on my placement an additional day for four days a week instead of three days a week. So it was just yeah, it was a huge transition in terms of like being a full-time student my third year, I was going to say for those who are considering a social work school and considering a reduced residency program. Make sure your job does not remain when it comes to your last year of having to switch your role, because it leaves you in a sticky situation to now have to look for something else.
Speaker 2:And that's exactly you know. I was just going to say that I appreciate you sharing that right, because I'm sure folks that are switching into this field or just getting into this field may not know that that's something that happens, right. But you sharing from your experience and now folks can look out for things in the future and try to secure as much of that commitment as possible. It's helpful, helpful insight. It's a career cheat code, one may say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is a career. Cheat code.
Speaker 2:So tell me more. So tell me what happens once you actually have your placement. You're doing your work and I really also, you know, I commend. I had to do it too, but like the folks that go to school and work at the same time, like that is no joke and balancing that is a lot. Sometimes it is definitely worthwhile and sometimes, in my case, it's the only option, right Like I wasn't going to not work, to go to school. So it's definitely something that makes a lot of sense. But you know, first we'd love to hear once you finish the program, do you? Or since you finish the program, do you feel like you've gotten what you wanted out of it?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the thing here's the thing with with, with, with each school, each social work school has a different concentration. I knew going to NYU was a very clinical concentration and I think even in this aspect of my career I don't think anyone should not be getting a clinical perspective on things, which means having an ability to see things from a very microscopic view. And I think social work has so many different facets that, depending on the school you go to, some people like Hunter is more very community-based advocacy work right, and so for me, being at the position I'm in now, I felt like NYU prepared me a lot when it came to like really understanding how the micro affects the macro and how the macro affects the micro and everything else in between.
Speaker 1:And, if I'm real with you, I really loved my program, like I really I think the program has. I've seen the program has grown a lot in terms of more diversity, in terms of faculty, but I loved it when I was there and I felt that it was very small classes and I felt like my professors were very hands-on with us, I don't know, and I think it gave me a level of self-assurance with the level of rigor that I had to. Still, this program still had a level of vigor in regards to even passing a clinical exam, and so that education still was very present when it came to taking my clinical exam six years later. So I will say that when it came to my education at NYU, it was very I mean in debt, but it was very well worth it.
Speaker 2:Six years. Why does this program? Why did that take so long? Is that typical Six years before your clinical exams?
Speaker 1:So when you graduate, whether you're doing a two-year program or three-year program in social work, we have two different licensures. When we first graduate, we are eligible to take our LMSW, which stands for the Licensed Master of Social Work test, right? I think the best way to equate it is to like a residency license, right, you're acting as a resident, but you're still learning under what would be considered like attending With your LMSW. I feel like most jobs now want you to have your LMSW, even if it's not a clinical role but your LMSW. If you do decide to do a clinical track or do arts, you want to become a therapist? Right, you would need your LCSW to practice independently, which is equivalent to a PhD in psychology, and it's on that, years of clinical supervision. And for social workers specifically, the only people who can sign off on those clinical hours are a psychologist, a psychiatrist or another LCSW. Those are the only three disciplines that can sign off on someone getting those hours, and so you would think getting those hours are enough, but it's not. Once you have matched those hours, then you have to send it into your respective states, like in this case, new York State. New York State goes through all this paperwork and another component of that is that you have to literally track your hours and have people sign off on it. So anytime you leave a job, your supervisor should be signing off on those hours. The gag is is that once you submit those hours, new York State has to now review the entire application.
Speaker 1:For me, the first time that I applied to take my LCSW, new York State did not tell me, until I called them, that I was missing four months, even though it was like five years of work and I had, like I think I had like 400, over 400 plus more clinical hours In addition to the ones that they wanted already. I didn't have four months of clinical supervision and it was. What sucked at that time was that my LMSW was expiring and I would have been able to take the LCSW and not have to pay for it to be renewed Because I still need the LMSW. I still have to renew that for another four months of clinical supervision, to then resubmit the paperwork to then have them say yes, you can now take a test, the test. So that's the first half.
Speaker 1:Um, like the lmsw, where you do have to take a test, a licensing test, the lcsw is more in depth in terms of, like more clinical questions around diagnosing, around um, direct practice work. And so they it's. It's. It's still same format as the lmsw 175 questions, four hours, you got no breaks. They give you a little survey and they tell you on the spot if you pass the test or not. It is a very hard test to pass, I will say that. But I did pass it, though on my first go. But I will say that it's a very hard test to pass, especially the more the further you are away from school, because what happens with people who take the test is that they take the test according to their specialty in their field and not as the discipline of social work, and that's how they study when they go into taking the test. With a test, you have to go in as a discipline of social work and know what the questions are asking you versus what you think your knowledge is based on, what your experience in the field is.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. That's a big differentiating factor too. So I appreciate you kind of making that distinction and walking us through the process of that Right Like this is not my field. So I appreciate you kind of making that distinction and walking us through the process of that right Like this is not my field, so I wouldn't even know about the intricacies of the process. So I'm sure this is helpful for people listening and considering this field. You know it is a process, but you know here we are today. Right, you're a leader in your field and this has been a while in the making of you getting to this point. But, like this, this is the kind of one of the prerequisites to getting into the field, to then being able to like shine in your field. Um, so you know it's a process, but, um, but it it makes sense at the end I.
Speaker 1:I also want to add this to the lcsw. You don't need your lcsw to continue to practice as in the field, but I want to give the weight of what the ltsw means because I think there is a misunderstanding that people don't make money in social work, right, and when you graduate with your, when you graduate your master's and you apply, let's say the earliest you can take your lmsw is july, because they still your degree still needs to be conferred, even you submit everything else else and by the end of may the state won't approve it until maybe july earliest. I remember they also have an influx of all these applications at once, so maybe august if you hear back from the state. The thing with the lmsw is that when you start out they'll give you like most employers will give you, like what they think and even though, like the cost when I started out I mean my first job was 45k, 45k and my degree cost me more than 45k but I will say that, even though it's 45k, that experience catapulted me into in other parts of my career because of the level of work they had me to do, but that 45k was still high robbery for the level of work they had me do, and I think it's different now because COVID I think this has been a very has shed a limelight on social work and the importance of social work and the importance of like mental health and I think, like the students now, or this generation of students, have much more leveraging power to negotiate their salaries, to be able to speak up for more of the things that they want. I don't think we had the liberty to do that back then, but given how much COVID itself highlighted the need for social work and how important it is to have these things in place, especially in New York City, I think there has been more of a leveraging in the demand for higher wages and fairer conditions in social work. And these groups of students, they're on some, they're really, they are very passionate when it comes to advocacy. I will say that, especially when it comes to being able to express what they feel is injustice happening to them.
Speaker 1:But when you start out, you won't make a lot of money with your LMSW. And if you do make a lot of money with your LMSW, it's more than likely it's because you already came with a background of experience before. So if you were a lawyer before, if you were another profession before and you had another master's before. That could bump your salary up, but starting out, no, you're not going to get paid as much as you think you are. But when you get your C, your LCSW, that is the real. That is the real like. I feel it's a real liberator, especially for Black and Brown clinicians, where it's like you have more leveraging power. You can ask for more money, you can go into private practice if you want to. You can go into do. I think the LCSW holds the weight of you can be independent if you choose, and I think that is why it's a lot more rigorous to get, because of the power it holds, especially when it comes to deciding a more deciding factor and where you want your career to go.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's awesome. So for folks that don't know, right, because you mentioned you can make some money in social work. You know your first job was 45,000, but can you give folks a range of how much you can actually grow into making um in this field, especially after having your c?
Speaker 1:so your c can give you the leveraging power of going from, say, if you make 75k to making 100k right there. It can give you at most positions a huge jump in salary. I'm not saying all jobs that, but most jobs will give you a huge bump in a salary when they see you have your clinical license because of the way it represents and, again, like your LCSW, as a intending you can in terms of opening a private practice. You can independently diagnose someone, you can independently give treatments right To people on your own without needing a supervisor over you, right. But with your LMSW you cannot do that because of the need to have a supervising clinician to sign off on your work.
Speaker 2:Got it. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. I appreciate that. Tell me about. How do you then grow in your field, right? Because how do you grow both in your job, professionally, but also in the field as a known person that is doing good work, right? You have developed a brand of someone that is a force in your field. How do folks follow in those footsteps and tell people about that brand?
Speaker 1:Because this brand, this brand Okay, I'm going to say this the LMSW to the LCSW, those two points of time. I oftentimes say it's a pledging process. You have to be very committed, especially if you want that. You have to be very committed to, like A, what do you want to develop your practice to be? I have, technically, three specialties in social work. I have forensic social work background with what I graduated NYU with. I have a clinical background, clearly, and I worked in schools for like eight years. So I have three specialties specifically. And even with forensic social work, a lot of my consulting work is with the Department of Probation, and so the best thing I can tell people when they start with the LMHW, I'm going to say specifically, I'm going to give this advice from Black and Brown people like graduating and coming into this field.
Speaker 1:A lot of times what we tend to do is we tend to look at jobs with high paying salaries because clearly we are probably in more debt. We don't got it like that. We need the money, right, I'm gonna keep it real and a lot of times those higher paying jobs oftentimes have like have a ceiling where you cannot learn anything else beyond a certain scope, right when there that is. And you can think about that, even in like, like, maybe hospital social work, where all you're doing is discharging, discharging, discharging. Yes, you're learning certain skills, but you are not going beyond those skills, and hospital social work will pay you a lot more right. And so here's the thing where I tell people now, when you graduate, be intentional about where you want your direction, even if you don't have a set goal of where you want your direction to be, how are you building that brand? Or how are you building yourself to become an expert, right? And so if, for instance, if you want to do to clinical work, then it's like being intentional on taking jobs that are going to sharpen those clinical skills.
Speaker 1:My first job even though it paid me 45k ready, and it was like a struggle with that job, but that was money, I will tell you I, my first job, required me to build a mental health clinic from scratch in a community school in the Bronx, south Bronx, where ain't nobody trying to go to dental therapy, ain't nobody trying to do this, it's a family school. And so for me, what I had to now do hit the ground running. I had to learn marketing on like marketing. I had to learn destigmatizing social work or not even social work at this point, destigmatizing therapy. I had to learn school engagement. I had to learn destigmatizing social work or not even social work at this point, destigmatizing therapy. I had to learn school engagement. I had to learn parent engagement. I had to learn what it meant to be a collaborator, an advocate, and I had to also learn to be in real time a clinician, at the same time doing my own billing.
Speaker 1:Doing this, I had to learn so much, literally hitting the ground running and also having to build my own caseload right. So no one was giving me like I had a set case. No, I had to now sell this age, this clinic in the school as a reason to enroll your child in it. And this is high school. So, like some of these students are over age, like 19, 20, 21. And also branding in a way that this is a solution to why your kid may need the additional support to graduate on time or to manage their anger or to manage anxiety.
Speaker 1:I always had to market it in a way that was solution focused and not because of the stigma of my child, is crazy. And so for two years, years, I did that and had to balance all that stuff and also balance relationships. And even at the end of that job I had to end up taking on a role managing, like this huge work, of this huge event for the school. Uh, because the person, because because other tensions happening with the person who was supposed to do it and and the principal at the time, so I had to step in to do that. And by the time I left that position, I came to recognize how valuable that those two years made me in terms of where I would go to my next job.
Speaker 1:Because two years of doing all of this like administrative work, marketing work, mental health work, de-stigmatizing work, advocacy work right, it's like I was going through the gauntlet. I won't say I wasn't, but I had way more experience than someone who stayed and maybe doing a hospital-based job or someone who was just doing case management or doing ACS stuff right, those things come with higher pay, but in terms of the level of skillset that you learn, it's only limited based off of that field. Right, but because I had to do so much by juggling all these things, I think that laid a stronger foundation for me now to be able to juggle multiple jobs at the same time. And so for me, my next able to juggle multiple jobs at the same time and so for me, my next job after I left that was as a social work director, because I had so much. You know, I didn't have the LCS, the LCSW like they wanted. I had all the skill set that it was like why would we not hire you? Especially the skill set and the knowledge of how to engage, especially especially to engage young people to come to therapy.
Speaker 1:In high school, yeah, I had to like switch it up, like I couldn't like the theories that was taught to me at NYU could not be applicable. In the same way, I had to learn to translate that down. I had to learn to explain things in a way that a 10-year-old would understand it. I think a lot of times when we go to social work school, we know these big words and we know these theories and we know these things, but when you have to explain it to a 10 year old, if you can't explain it, you don't understand it. So I had to really know how to like break things down in a way that makes sense to people and engage people really quickly. In regards to in regards to engaging in therapy or engaging the idea of therapy, and so I that those skillsets have become so transferable throughout my career that even as a professor now at Columbia boy, I think it's what I've been told I'm very disarming, but I think I developed that skillset because of where I started.
Speaker 1:So I always tell especially young social workers when you start out and think about each job as in a continued investment in your education in this field, and think of each job as something that's adding to your brand right, each job that you get, even if it may be a similar jobs, what in this space can you learn that you didn't learn here? Everything's a learning experience and a learning opportunity if you're open to it, even if you think you know it Because I'm going to be honest, nobody knows anything and we're all still John Snow, we know nothing. So be open to learning something new, as it helps you grow and evolve into a more effective helper. And I don't think a lot of, especially with black and brown students who go into social and graduate and look for these more high-paying jobs. They look for those that oh I, okay, it doesn't help, but then they're stuck there for four or five years and they want their seat, but it's like you haven't accumulated the hours, you haven't accumulated these other things that are going to make you eligible for that, because you stayed in a job that, yes, it had more benefits, but it didn't have more but those benefits and that safety didn't give you the risk and a bigger reward from that. And so I think for us, I always encourage to lean into the discomfort of the unknown and trust yourself that you have the talent, you have the tenacity, you have the skill set, you have the mindset, and all you need to do is develop the discipline and commitment to stick it out Right. All you need to do is develop the discipline and commitment to stick it out Right, because the bigger reward comes. I always say the bigger reward comes at a faster rate when you are strategic and what jobs you take.
Speaker 1:And so for me, from that time, from that first, from my first job, to where I ended up getting my seat, that was six years, but between those six years I, by the time I got my seat, the seat was just a cherry on top.
Speaker 1:I'll be real with you.
Speaker 1:The seat was like oh, now here's the extra weight.
Speaker 1:But my resume is almost four pages at this point, and it was so many different experiences, because one of the best pieces of advice that I got from another Puerto Rican clinician was that the difference between white clinicians and Black and brown clinicians is that white clinicians are willing to take the risk and that is why they grow much faster in this field and it's why they get the leadership positions much faster.
Speaker 1:This is why they get into these spaces much faster, because they are willing to take the risk and take that pay cut and develop the skill set and develop what they need and then, by the time they apply for that job, in two years, where they're at, may be director of this and then, by the time they apply for that job, in two years, where they're at, may be director of this Because they took the time to build that skill set, may take the hit, but that reward was bigger than a lot of us who take the safe route because it makes sense for us, because we do need that safety and don't take the risk on the investment in ourselves.
Speaker 2:That's great. That's super valuable information and a lot of gems that were laid out throughout that portion. You know, I think it's important to take the risk. I think it's fascinating that even earlier on in your career you recognize the value of things outside of a paycheck right. There is a learning component to doing a bunch of things for a couple of years that you can then leverage at another point. But just doing the work and exposing yourself to those experiences made you inherently more valuable. So I appreciate that. At what point did you want to actually become a professor?
Speaker 1:So I really was thinking about this question and, if I'll be real with you, I wanted to be a professor my entire life, but then I forgot the dream and even when I went to college, it was still to be a history professor. But then, somewhere along the way, I think it was still to be a history professor, but then somewhere along the way, I think it was a thing that I just put so distant in the future when I was this, like older, more of like this deep stage and like and for me, I didn't think. I think the first time I really I really thought about wanting to be teach was four years, 2024. So when I left my last job, and at that time, with that last job, it was just this is where you have to know your worth in social work and you have to know how people. I learned in that last job is that people see your worth. They just treat you according to how you allow them to treat your worth.
Speaker 1:And I had made the decision to leave that last job because I was being so overworked that, because of the need that was there within this agency to organize this school system, they didn't take my mental health seriously. They didn't take me in terms of my well-being seriously, and that was when, for me, that I had to look at my worth and recognize if I'm able to balance all these things and teach people and coach people, I can definitely teach, and I've been told that by interns before that you should consider teaching, you should go into teaching. And so my first actually my first real experience of teaching was with through a friend who was an adjunct at Brooklyn College and he also taught at BMCC, and so this is around the time I had left my, I had left my job as a social work director before I transitioned to work, to work in schools more full-time. He brought me into his class to teach something around.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to remember what it was it was on the black and brown experience in schools, it was something around that extent and so he came in as a guest lecturer and he had such amazing feedback from his class that he brought me to another class at Brooklyn College and I think we were talking something political in regards to the Afrikan movement and just things we were talking about in this class, and he had also gotten good feedback from my class. I started to have these moments with him where he would bring me to his classes for guest lectures or to even observe, and it would create this bigger dialogue and it's ironing me out because he's at Columbia now at Teachers College doing his PhD. So it was always a full circle moment where I always go back and tell him like you know, you were the first introduction into actually considering myself to teach in higher ed, and so that happened around 2019. That so a lot of things happened in that year, but, like 2019 was when my first experience of teaching teaching happened in schools.
Speaker 1:But then I also had presented at Columbia School of Social Work the after school social work conference twice that that in the same event. So I had presented around spoken word and then then just how we could use spoken word as a platform for students to discuss injustices, and then I ended up doing an entire seminar on racial trauma in educational settings and so that the that exposure to also made me see how I may have a talent to teach. So when I kind of left my last job in 2022, it was like I really should consider going into teaching. However, getting into teaching is a hard thing, but that was my first. I want to get into teaching was in 2022.
Speaker 2:So how does one actually get into teaching, or how did you get into teaching? It goes from you have the seed planted three years earlier, so then you have to actually make the thing happen. How did you do it?
Speaker 1:So this is where I took a big risk. By the time I left my last job, I was a network clinician for a charter school in Brooklyn, and that job had morphed into so many different things that I told you like I was being, at this point, exploited, and so I decided to leave. At that time I had just started my own private practice, virtually, and so I had started February. I had left June, so I had, at that time, had already started this thing that was my own, my own practice, and that gave me the courage to leave my own, my own practice, and that gave me the courage to leave. And then I said, well, if I'm going to do this, then I should just figure out to go into teaching. However, getting to teaching and applying for jobs with teaching is a much harder thing, even though I had technically taught interns in our respective field placements where they were at in my jobs, and I had a SIFI. I'll explain it. The SIFI, real quick, is supervision and field instruction, which means if you have ever taught an intern, you can take that certification class with the school that intern comes from. So if an intern came from Columbia, the social worker can take the classes of Columbia and get that certification for free, but you need an intern working under you to get that. I did mine at Fordham. So for me at that time getting into school was hard. Even NYU was like I see your resume, so we'll get back to you Right? And so I at the time had started consulting and I had started consulting with the department of probation and I what I was doing in my consulting with the department of probation is I was designing trainings, designing and facilitating trainings, and these trainings are like four hours and I was doing it with a program called credible messengers, which go into the, which go into neighborhoods with um as a form of violence prevention and so especially doing a lot of like crisis work with like a lot of violence prevention and so especially doing a lot of like crisis work with like a lot of young people. One of the administrators for the trainings is a Columbia professor, and so what ended up happening was that I was so good at these trainings and designing them and people being so engaged with them that one and he sometimes he will sit in and he would engage to himself whoever and we were talking and he was saying to me the conversation he ended up having was I sometimes look at your work, tanika, and I'm like how can I incorporate a lot of these things into my own lessons? And this is how the conversation started and I said to him like oh, he's oh, so what do you mean? He said yeah, like when I teach, I I'm like you the way you are able to like design this, like design this, this training. It's like even with me I'm looking at this, like how can I do this for my own stuff? And so I said I said oh, so you teach. He's like yeah, he said he teaches at columbia. So okay, and he asked me where do I teach? And I said I don't teach. I don't teach yet like, I've been trying, I've been applying and ironically, at that time I was also applying for my doctorate in social work, which I ended up missing the deadline for the application to be something like six hours.
Speaker 1:So that was like a whole other bus by itself. So I've been telling you how things align. He said to me like oh, you don't teach. I was like, no, I think it's. You know, I've been applying, but I haven't heard back.
Speaker 1:And so he said, oh, can you give me your resume please? And I was like you know people talk, so people talk stuff. And he's also like he's Filipino. So it's like I also want to put you like. This is like why is it so important for social workers of color to network right, and you never know who's watching you. And so he was like can you give me your resume? So I was like, okay, you know, I didn't really take it seriously until he emailed me about it and he said can you pass me, send me your resume? Am I being really right? I wasn't thinking about Columbia to apply to like to even teach there. So it's like I said, okay, I passed along my resume. This was like April of last year and I didn't hear back. So it was like, okay, they probably look at this resume too and they're thinking in their minds like, oh, she doesn't have enough teaching experience. So I left it alone.
Speaker 1:And then I got an email while I was in Thailand for a meeting and it was from my boss, who's a dean for the adjuncts, and like but when I read the email my boss, who's a dean for the adjuncts, but when I read the email, I'll be real with you when I read the email I was like you get a feeling like, okay, this is aligning, something is happening. And so I emailed her back and told her I would be back in Thailand. I came back from Thailand June 11th and had the interview June. Oh sorry, june 12th I had the. I came back from Thailand June 11th. I had to interview June oh sorry, june 12th. I had to interview June 13th and I presented one of my workshops, one of my part, my slides for my workshops. We had a conversation. She asked me my thoughts on Columbia and then she thought I would be a really good fit and then she offered me the one class I actually wanted to teach.
Speaker 1:It's funny how things come full circle because it was on like it's decolonization of social work through foundations of social work. It's a very anti. It's the. The focus is on anti-Black racism in particular and decolonizing the lens of social work and pretty much teaching it from a lens. Social work the big, the big bad wolf of our country is slavery and everything comes into slavery, everything comes back down to slavery and it's like having to now teach people kind of like break their entire lens of what they think social work is and pretty much build them back up, and so it's a very hard class to teach people, especially around decolonizing.
Speaker 1:You talk about anti-Black racism, you're talking about all these things, you're talking about genocide. Like, yeah, it was. It's not everybody could teach that class, and so when she offered it to me, I had that class at NYU. But Columbia didn't have the class of 2017. I had a class back in 2012, so that should also tell you what Columbia's trajectory was. So when I was offered that class, I was like, yes, I'm going to teach that class. And so that is how Columbia happened. You never know who's watching you. You never know who's watching you. You never know who you're impressing. You never. And one thing I will say is you always got to show up as yourself. Showing up as yourself in this field will get you a lot more notice compared to how you think people should perceive you in this field wow, I love that.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm very big on that. The same rat you get here, it's the same rat you get in every other room, so I love that. Okay, what is your favorite part of your job?
Speaker 1:I think for me, seeing change, seeing how, seeing how someone can, the process of change, when you observe, it is a very beautiful thing. But when someone's going through the process of change, when you observe, it is a very beautiful thing, but when someone's going through the process of change is a very harrowing thing. And being able to kind of guide people through those changes, whether as a therapist or even as a consultant, in the way people in trainings, but as a professor, I think seeing how people their lens change and reading their work and being able to see that in real time, how you show up and how you teach and how your intentions behind the work you do do matter, right, people feel that from you and people feel the genuineness of why you do this work. People feel the genuineness of why you do this work and I think along the lines. One of the things I want to say is that with each work, you cannot come into it as if you're a savior for people. You have to come in with it as you're a collaborator with people, right, people are still the expert of their own lives, whether they are coming to therapy, they are coming to one of these trainings or they're a student in my class right, and they're coming with their own lens, their own perspective of what they think they want for themselves and wanting something else but not knowing how to get it Right. Or wanting to become someone else but afraid to do that.
Speaker 1:And I think one of the things that I've had, I've learned through, is the art of empathy in every section. It's the way I come in as a therapist in terms of empathy, and what I mean by empathy is empathy has to come with a level of accountability. Is that? I see you, but I also see that you can be better than this. So I need to also hold you accountable but also be supportive of you as you go through this process. And so to see the fruits of that labor, when people have made significant changes with themselves, not because you were there but because they trusted you to help support them in that growth, is always for me, going to be the reason as to why I do this work, no matter what facet I'm in as a social worker.
Speaker 2:That's great. Are there any forms of media books, podcasts, anything that you have consumed that have helped you personally or professionally?
Speaker 1:I will say one of the things the books I'm going to tell people to read if they're going to social work is going to be very unconventional. The Subtle Art of Not Giving Up by Mark Manson, I think, is a book for me that I wish that I had read that at the beginning of my career, versus where I at one point was struggling to figure out if I wanted to stay in social work. And the reason why I say that book in particular is because when you come into social work, many, many people come in as a savior oh my god, I want to put this cape on what and a lot of that savior complex comes from an inferiority complex or superiority complex, depending, depending where you're at right, but it always comes with a need of feeling that you are in some ways connected to humanity and connected to the humanity within you. But I think a lot of times people come into social work not asking is what are your values in social work? What are your intentions in social work? Who do you want to be in social work? Right, and I think a lot of people have to unlearn the trope of who they think they are versus allowing yourself the experience of self-discovery of who you want to show up as, when you get that master Right. And so I think I always say that social work is soul work, because you have to go.
Speaker 1:If you cannot be an advocate for someone else, if you're not a self-advocate, and if you don't know how to self-advocate, that's the inner work you gotta do, right. You can't be a helper if you don't even know how to help yourself. You can't sit here and say that you wanna be, you wanna help someone else get to a better part of their life, if you operate from a place of fear and not courage. Right, and that requires a level of internal work that many people don't realize they get hit with when they get into the actual study of social work. I would say studying it as a science is much different than working in it, because there's so much unlearning you have to do that. I literally tell students when they start you come in as Jon Snow, you know nothing. I don't care what wokeness you have or TikTok university, you've learned things from learning. Things like empathy and accountability is a development you need to start within yourself. And if you cannot do that, you cannot genuinely show up in this field without feeling burnt out without advocating for yourself when you know that you cannot do something.
Speaker 1:And because social work, as much as I love it, can be a very predatory field if you don't know who you are in it, and people come into this trope of I want to be able to come out and save the world. Being a part of being able to save the world is knowing how to know what your self-worth is, and so I always say that book in particular, and also like, oh my God, there's another book I give clients around create, set boundaries, create peace by Nidra. Let me look at that person. The book is somewhere in my bookshelf right now. I don't want to run and go get it, but it's an important book. It's an important book because I feel like you need to understand what boundaries are as well, right, and so I think when people go into social work, they need to ask themselves who they want to be in social work and what are your limits in terms of what you'd want to do in social work and also having a level of honesty and self-analysis of how much can you show up in your respective fields.
Speaker 1:Right, and if you can't do that, this field will burn you out faster than a candle, burn you out faster than a candle, and it's very important to understand who you are when you may have people trying to guilt you into because of what you do, which I think is an occupational hazard that people have in here, where social workers is, you're overly understanding, you're overly stepping in. You're overly doing this, but if you don't understand from within what your boundaries are, this field will take you and run with you and take full advantage of you. If you don't understand that, you are also worthy too, and that's why I say you have to take away from the favorite complex so a lot of people don't feel like they are.
Speaker 2:Tanika. Is there anything else we haven't discussed that the world should know about you?
Speaker 1:You know that's a very heavy question. Like well, I don't even. I think I'm still growing and learning myself right, and so it's kind of like I will say this I always tell students just because the work we do is heavy doesn't mean you need to feel heavy. And so when I go into social work, this field is hard, but it's a field you have to love, and that love has to resonate from a place of self first before it resonates from a place that feeds an ego. So I am a person that always holds people accountable. For how do you say true to yourself in this field, rather than how you think you should show up, based off what people expect from you or you think people expect from you? So I don't know. I was just kind of say I'm a forever student and I love the work that I do, and I'm going to keep doing this work until I can't, Until the wheels fall off.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:That's great. Well, thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 1:I really appreciated this conversation, yeah us now, that's great.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for joining us today. Thank you, roddy, I really appreciated this conversation, yeah this has been a great conversation. Thank you, I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did and believe on the mission we're on, please like, rate and subscribe to this podcast on whatever platform you're using, and share this podcast with your friends and your networks. Make sure you follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at Career Cheat Code and tell us people or careers you would like to see highlighted. See you next week with some more cheat codes. Peace.
