In Business Archive: Artistry, Creativity and Business with Loomier founders Illana Griffo & Katie Johnson

Learn more about Loomier: https://loomier.co/

Illana Griffo: https://www.ilanagriffo.com/

Katie Johnson of Katie Made That: https://www.katiemadethat.com/

Transcript

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Friends today. We're talking to a lot of Griffo and Katie Johnson, the founders of Lumiere. And I've got to tell you, I love this conversation. We talk a lot about kind of this business of being in business and how starting somewhere now is always going to be better than starting somewhere later. There's so many gems in this episode. If you have been feeling like you need to tap the more creative elements of your life, this is one to listen to. Let's get into it. I'm so excited. Katie and Atlanta. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having us. I'm so excited to chat today. When I first moved to Rochester, one of my kind of long time mentors slash friends, somebody that I'd worked with for a while, Jess lively, she does this really cool bag. And I buy this bag along with, a necklace and maybe a planner and I'm going through Rochester. One of these. Breena Ray bazaars. I think it was at the time from Rochester. Brainery when Danielle was on the show too, and this really beautiful woman goes, Hey, I made that. And I was like, tell me more, tell me more about that. I had totally forgotten. I thought you were going in a different direction with this. Like, long-term go back when I totally forgot about that. It feels like a little cute. That was her meat cue. I was like, oh my gosh, someone in Rochester knows this woman I work with. Cause she didn't live here. So that was pretty cool. And you had gone way back, you were college for something like we had known each other for, I think five or six years at that point. yeah. While, so today we're talking about artistry, creativity. Agency and ownership. Tell me about what the work that you and Katie are doing today. And I kind of brand that to you Allana, but feel free to jump back and forth. Great. We will, we have a nice back and forth going over here. okay. So Katie and I are both artists. We primarily do hand lettering. we both came from traditional graphic design backgrounds. Through the wonderful world of the internet connected. I was a fan of Katie's work and I noticed that she was doing similar projects. Very, we have different styles, different hands for different people, but I noticed she was also working on. Licensing her work, which is a very untapped market for graphic designers, illustrators, specifically hand lettering artists. And so Katie had posted on her Instagram that she was going to be doing a course about licensing. And I was like, oh, that's going to be amazing. And I messaged her, letting her know that I was gonna be working on like a Skillshare course. And then I couldn't wait to learn about her experience and Katie. Turned me on my head and was like, why don't we do our course to. Because we were both going to teach about it. We probably had different things to say different experiences. And now three years later, we run a whole business on online education for artists on how they can grow their business, a sustainable business, doing what they love, which is creating art. So that was Katie and my meet cute was just slipping into the DM. So that's what we do now. We teach online, we have a community of resources and, artists who just want to make a living doing what they love. There was this kind of myth lie. However you want to frame it up that as a creative person, your work must suffer. Silently with four pay. Yeah. You must be the starving artist, that classic trope. How did you come to turn that lie into an exposed piece of information? I think there's, there's like so much to unpack there. And Katie and I obviously have different experiences, but for me, I was brought up in a home that told me that creativity and entrepreneurship was an option. It was just always an option. It wasn't like this, it wasn't put on a pedestal. It wasn't some far reaching thing. It was just always an option. And so I didn't even know that's where I was going. Because it was just hidden to always been accessible to me at my, both. My parents had started creative businesses. my, my father owns a law firm. My mom had started these, this wonderful creative consulting business and it was just always available. And so I never grew up thinking that. And then I went into graphic design where I saw exactly how you make a living doing graphic design. And I thought I'd have more fun doing this on my own. I think it's baloney and we're definitely trying to help educate people on that, but I think Katie's was a much more calculated. Well, yeah, I had the same, exposure to the creative side of things growing up. but not the entrepreneurship side. I wasn't exposed to that at all. so I felt pretty uncomfortable when I started going that route, but I, I had a lot of. From my dad, especially, support and encouragement to be very logical and calculated as much as possible when taking risks. he is a very thoughtful, very careful person, but he also is a creative, musician. And so the combination of the two things I'm I think really set me up to. Be prepared to take on the entrepreneurship side, even though it was intimidating to me. And he was very encouraging of the, all the steps that I took to be, to take that calculated risk. Like. I wrote a 40 page business plan and, spent, you know, a year and a half researching and learning as much as I could about business. So I really put a lot of thought into it before I jumped and having him kind of validate that. Was very helpful for me and my confidence as well. I think we both really, I mean, obviously mine, wasn't, not calculated. I thought long and hard and I planned, but I think both of us really are constantly every single day making an effort to, to not just like squash the stereotype. Do the same thing for ourselves. Obviously it's much more stable now that we've been doing it for years, but for us, there's been a couple of key factors that we're continuously working on. It's not just like overnight, it just becomes, oh, we make us sustainable income. It's something you're always working on. And we've learned some principles that really help in one of those is diversifying our income. And that means we are not ever just relying on 1:00 PM. Just like a steady job, you'd be relying on a steady job, but really in life, there's no security for any of that. And so for us, it's been finding a couple things that we can always be rotating so that when we notice there's a trend and when we're working in the business, we're noticing, okay, what's working, what's not working. And it's constantly like looking and saying, how can we change this? And how can we evolve? And it's really someone told us the other day, like if you want to run a successful art business, you have to do the business. And so I think for us, it's just wearing both hats, wearing the arts hat and then knowing when to try to put on the business hat. And I love this conversation about diversifying the income streams. Right. And looking at that as a way to create. Spread the NES. Exactly. Right. But to create stability and structure so that you can thrive financially and energetically, I feel like that's the thing that when I look at diversifying my revenue stream, it doesn't matter if you're a creative person and you're doing hand lettering, or if you're doing what I'm doing, marketing strategy or whatever, when you look at okay, This is how much energy I have. I cannot expend that amount of energy on multiple things. 100% of the time, like the math doesn't add up. Yeah. It's actually like exactly what you said. It's the opposite of burning yourself out and spreading yourself too thin. It's okay. How can I get more out of this? How can I make this work even harder for me? So if you notice, I'm just going to like pull an example out of my head, but if you sell stickers and your stickers do really well, but there's like a cap on how many stickers it's thinking. Okay. I only have however many hours in a day. How else can I use the artwork from the stickers or how else can I use my sticker shop to bring more income in it's really, instead of spreading yourself itself, then it's the opposite. It's how do we not spread ourselves thin? And sometimes that's introducing a new stream or by working in a different way. Yeah, we talk about this all the time and it's one of the principles of our businesses and what we teach our students is we call it double-dipping. But lately it's been triple, quadruple dipping. yeah, the most, the more that you can squeeze out of your time and your efforts the better. So we really encourage having multiple streams, but having them all overlap in ways where, You're not stretched them like you're talking about. So there's this innovative, creative part of our brains that really thrives when putting that constraint of saying, oh, I'm going to do something, but how can I do this? And then have, you know, it's kind of, I always think of donut hole. Right. It's like, I'm making donuts, I'm going to have donut holes. Like how do I love that? How do I do that? And think about it. And this holds true for. It's winter now, sadly, here in New York. I think happy, sad. I, I hate socks. That's the truth of it. Oh, I'm a big soccer fan. You've got to love socks in order to not have cold feet here. It's true. I'm going to get there. Anyway, it's a cut scene to Bombas being like we're going to sponsor the show. Here's your socks. Yeah. Maybe those are good. Those are good socks. I'm into that for you. So, but we've got to look at it and say, okay. I'm going to be making cocktails. I'm going to use my cocktail fruit. I'm going to stick it into a freezer bag, and then I'm going to use it to do my, simmer pot on a cold day to give some nice aroma to the house. It's a beautiful analogy for this. Yeah, but we can do that in our work too. How did that start for you? Because I think that the starting point unlocks a lot of opportunities. Well, that's a good question, Katie, do you remember, like when you, when that clicked for you, it was just that I was stretched too thin and I had to figure out a solution. cause I was, I mean, trying to do everything in my business and realizing that I had a finite amount of time and it just, I think naturally. Clicked into place that, okay. Well, I, I have these limited resources. How can I make this work with what I have without hiring another me or cloning myself. And that's just what came out of it. Yeah, that's pretty good. I'm going to assume that's what happened for me, because I can't remember like a moment where I was like, oh, wow. Am I so smart, like, am I doing a thing where I could, I think it was just being productive and it was like, oh, well I've already done this before. I might as well use it again. I don't know. I think it's a natural conclusion to reach, but there's so many things in business that you have to, like, you can't just logic it out and instantly implement it. You have to kind of experience it and, and fall into it. And there's so much you can prepare for. And then the experience of actually running your business is a whole nother thing. Well, and I think that part of it is like you both came on to it kind of at your own time and the right season or whatever reason, this just was a natural occurrence, but you can accelerate that kind of ideation that being like, oh, well, I'm seeing this woman, Katie. And I see how she is using her stickers to do X, Y, and Z on top of that. And that modeling opens up a huge amount of opportunity for people. Yeah, that's true. We, we suggest that to our students all the time, we're like, look at other people and what they're doing and see what does any of it align with you? Does any of it feel good? Does any of it teach you something? So, yeah, that's probably, that's true. We both kind of we're we're on a path now we're on it together. I'm curious. And you know, we, we don't have chocolate. This George would be very happy to edit this out, but partnerships are. How are you thriving in this partnership? Wonderfully? I feel like, I mean, I was going to come in with sarcasm, so thank you. You always do when we get that question. but yeah, I mean, we've had an evolution of, you know, figuring out how we work together and who, Is best at what? Or enjoys something more or just like does a better job at, you know, handling it despite not liking it or something like that. So we've really had to do a lot of like experimenting and just time working together has really helped that. Yeah. I think both like found our places. I think there's a couple of things that came into play. One is that we had never intended. Do this together. The first time we did it, we just did a course together, like thinking we'll just do this project together and we didn't expect. What we are today, we just thought it was kind of like a one-time thing. I don't think either of us would've expected, this is where we'd be today, regardless of each other. And then we were just on the phone one time we were talking about like, okay, where should we take it? Next people seem to be responding. Should we do anything else? And then I don't know if it was Katie or I, we just said, I guess we're starting a business together. And we were like, oh, and I think. Part of the reason. So first of all, we didn't met meet in person until this year, just like two months ago. And I think part of what, helped, I think we're already in a gang. Like I truly think we are like perfectly fit. I could not imagine. Being in a partnership with anyone else. So we BA sweet, but also like we were not friends first. Like we did not know each other at all. We didn't have like this DM, like ongoing thread where we like, knew about each other's lives. It was literally like we found one common ground and Katie. So incredible to say, why don't we do it together? We met once on zoom and we were like, oh, they seem cool. They're not a murderer. Let's let's work together. And it truly has been about like being honest communication, leaning in where we feel we are stronger. And also just like asking each other, like, am I doing this right? I will rely on Katie for so many things that she thinks. I'm she's or I think she's better at and vice versa. And we've really been able to like step into roles as leaders in our own company, even though it's mostly just us. I mean, we have some contractors, but instead of just being. All alone, trying to figure it out. We've actually been able to like step up and be like, this is where I shine. I'm going to stick here. And you stick in the places where you shine, like almost staying in our own lanes, but still being very uncomfortable in a faster lane than we've ever been in before. So I think there's like a lot of aspects. And I think we truly just got incredibly lucky. Maybe we just, we saw something in each other and we're like, take a chance, but it's been a slow roll. I mean, like I said, we started for like a year and a half. We were, it was just a course. Yeah. I also love that we weren't friends first because I've had partnerships like businessy relationships with friends that like everybody always warns you, have gone sour because it's weird to bring in responsibilities and holding each other accountable into a friendship. that just is difficult, but because we started off on that foot, it's been really cool to build it from. Around that. And it's just felt really natural. I love that. I think that there's so much in the element of coming together with an intention and not having a whole lot of other stuff around it. I think the same thing is true. Whenever you enter into a partnership with another person that's. Your mutual progress forward, whether that's coaching or mastermind. However you want to look at these different relationships that you can have with somebody when your only intention is to help one another, get from point a to where, whatever future point you have possible together. So magical because you don't have all of the other ties around it. It's when we lean on our friends and ask our friends, Hey, could you be everything for me? That would be awesome, please. I think we get to some sticky point. Yeah. And I mean, I could, I could like literally tear up right now. I think we, we have created a really incredible friendship and I mean, really, I feel so lucky that we have. We did come from a place of like, this is our goal. Like, I, it seems like it's aligned with your goal and now it's obviously seeped over into many aspects of our life. You know, when we hang up the phone, cause we talk like 85 times a day, it's like, okay, I'll talk to you in 20 seconds. You know? I, I wish I had advice on how to find a partner, but like neither of us set out to find one and neither of us like expected where we are now. And so well, yeah, if I had to like extract advice from being on this side of it, it would definitely be, find somebody who compliments your. Weaknesses and your strengths, because the way that we work as yin and yang is so great because we kind of, I'm like the detail person, like get in the nitty gritty of things and, Polish person and Alana is the like, Go and do and action and do it right now and get people really excited about something. So I think those two things just gel so well, and I would definitely suggest if you're looking for a partner, don't necessarily look to a friend who is just like you. but look for someone who. It's a contrast to you. Yeah. Look for someone on the internet. Who's cooler than you just look on the internet, try Craigslist. I've heard. That's great. I think the other thing, which when I was working at an agency, this was really helpful. We did disc and I know there's like any a gram, which I wish I knew a lot about. And there's like all the personality types, but I would assume that Katie and my. Disc or any grams or whatever are different and complimentary, I really want you to take the Enneagram. If you haven't, are you into it? Do you know yours? I do. My, I have a friend that's really into it, so, so yeah, I changed. I mean, I would assume we're always changing. Right? I mean, I would assume that it would be something you could revisit every two years or so and say, is this still aligned? That's why I've never gotten into it because I'm like a blossoming flower. Exactly the words I would use to just, but I think finding someone who you understand how they want to, they need to be communicated with how they learn. And if it's a way that. Can teach kind of thing, like, yeah. Is that the way I talk to people or is that the way I receive and things like that, just like you. A spouse or a partner or whatever is figuring out how to communicate with them. And Katie and I have just kind of figured more and more out every month that we're working together. Like, we joke that I'm the messy first draft because I, like Katie said, I get in there and right away. Jot down all my ideas. And then even though I'm still an organized person, Katie can come in and really like Polish it up. And I'm like, no, it's so amazing too. Because like the, when I was in high school and we would be in English class and we were supposed to create our first drafts, I would sit there and like refine. The first paragraph till it was perfect and not have anything else on the page. So it's like exactly what I needed and, and like drawing class in college, I would like get one area. Perfect. And the professor was like, no, no, no, you have to do the broad strokes first. You have to like plot it out. So that's what you helped me with. It's been really cool too. So it's just it's yeah. Okay. I think, yeah, we can get it. You get it. But from a failed partnerships that I've had in the past, I think one of the biggest issues was, we didn't have what we have kind of a common goal, but we didn't have an equal stake in it. Like I was the leader and they were working to help me, but. Like they didn't have as much to gain or like as much investment in it as I did. And because you and I do, I feel like, we're much more willing to take on responsibilities and share responsibilities and things and, and don't feel resentful for that. Where as my other past experience there, wasn't a lot of resentment, more about this on a private call. It's true because we first went to go hire like a social media manager or a VA. That was one of the things we felt is we really wanted someone who could come in and be as obsessed about it. Like be an intrepreneur someone who could come and be that for us. And it's really hard to find someone who's as invested in what you want to do as you are. And you want someone who has a skillset that you don't have because you need to delegate it so that you can stay in your zone of genius. But it's, it's really hard. To find people who share the same passions as you. And like he said, we both have the same stake in it. So that is probably a huge factor in it because we both have as much to gain, I guess, and lose. I don't know if that, or I guess we just have as much to gain. And so we're really in it together. That's that's relationship advice too. Right. You know, when I look at my marriage, I can say, well, we're not 50 50 partners. We're both showing up a hundred percent. And my hundred percent today is different than my a hundred percent was yesterday. Yep. And when you're in a partnership just to make it really relatable and accessible to everybody, even if you're not an entrepreneur and you, you aren't in a partnership like how you show up the energy in which you bring to that show up, it's gotta be all in for it to be. Yep. And all in looks different every single day. the book fair play. Have you. No, I haven't read that. Okay. So it's a relationship book and it talks about, I found it really interesting. Fair is not equal. Fair is not 50 50, and both in partnerships and in marriage or relationships or whatever it is not going to be. Well, I did this. So you do that. It is like taking a responsibility that you have. Can manage. and I know as Katie and I, you know, building a business, my husband works a traditional, you know, nine to five. that's, you know, if you're starting a business, that's something you have to think about too, is like, are you going to be working more hours? And if you have children, how does that, like, it's not a scale where it's 50, 50, it's a scale where everyone feels appreciated and valued and is contributing. And that book is like a, it's like a card game. This responsibility is yours. I might have more, but the end of the day it's fair or, the weight is, is it's being pulled. The ship is, is moving. It was just really interesting. I think it took us a while to get to that point to where we like found the not 50, 50, but the feeling of finding our fair. And now we're super good at, You know, like if one of us is having a really off day or week, or like, I get migraines that put me out of commission for like a day sometimes, and I'll just be like, Nope. I am out of it today, not having a good day. And she's like, say no more. I've got it. And then, you know, we can switch off, you know, so that we're both pick up the slack when the other one needs it. And vice versa. I have two young kids and. If I'm with them or something like Katie, it's not like, where are you? Why aren't you answering? This is an emergency. Like, I think we both know, our mental health and our wellbeing and our relationships at home are a top priority always. And that we are not like. We're not saving someone's life over here. Like we're not a doctor in the emergency room. We are, you know, like something can wait, nothing is an emergency. And I think the other thing is we both feel more confident in our roles now where we can say, Hey, you take it from here. Or I've got this instead of being like, can you double it? Like at the beginning, I would ask Katie to double check a lot of my stuff because. There are a few things that I'm like, not as confident in it. I think she's better at. And so now I feel better because she's maybe walked me through it or I just feel better asking or whatever the case may be, that now we're definitely in a better place. And meeting in person, I think really helps that because obviously with COVID it took us awhile, but meeting in person, it was able to understand, okay. If this is the text message I'm getting, or this is what she's saying, this is where it's coming from instead of being like jumping to assumptions. So obviously if you can meet your partner, your partner in person, that's really, I want to shift gears a little bit because the work that you both do is really interesting. And I remember the first time I went to New York, after I had moved back to Rochester, I was at grand central and I'm like, There's there's your work? Oh, and pirates. Yeah, and I was like, this is wild. How did you, how did you start to do this work? And how does this look? I mean, I think we've all bought a greeting card. We've all been in Michael's or hobby lobby or one of these places and been like, oh my gosh, this is an amazing place. Yeah. Like, how did this happen? Tell us how does this happen? That's exactly why we started talking about this more is because we did not know that this existed, this like kind of niche market. And so now we want to help other artists find it because it's everywhere. So anytime you go into hobby lobby, Michaels, trader Doe's, any anywhere you buy products that have art on them, that art is made by an artist, whether it's an in-house artist or an artist. Working for themselves, whatever it may be, that artists could be you listener, you know, like men, artists could be anyone. And so, the way that Katie and I both, this is like, I dunno, I guess serendipity, the way that we, our paths are so similar, we both were creating our own products and we had like, you know, Etsy shops with greeting cards and then we were both. Asked by a client or a potential client. Can we license this work? And we were like, WTF is aren't licensing. So then we figured it out, learn the ropes and then really, really leaned in. And so for me, I had been doing outreach and I asked a company, do you guys work with freelance designers? And they wrote CA came back to me and they said, sure, we'd love to license your work. And I Googled that. And for Katie, it was from her online shop. They wanted to license a design. And for greeting cards. And literally we both just like ran to the computer and we're like, what does this mean? And so basically what it means is we rent our artwork. We create artwork all the time less now, but, we we're always creating and we. Put that online, send it out to potential clients and they basically rent it to put on their products. And those products can be found everywhere from target to, you know, greeting cards to bedding, to, kids' clothing, to paper plates, like on anything that you could put art on potentially. It is pretty cool. Yeah. Every really like all my older family members, when they find out about this, they're like, oh, what is it? Wow. I didn't know, like, like mindblowing, where would you send somebody to just get started? I mean to our website. is there a class? Is there like, here's how to know it? I think. And I'll just cut right to it. I think where most people, they think, oh, this is something I like to do. It's a hobby, but I'm not good at. Oh, I mean everyone at every phase of life, I think feels that in some capacity. yeah, I think that's something we're constantly working on is, is feeling like we're good enough. And I think one of the biggest things that we always say is it's like, you have to start somewhere now, starting somewhere now is better than starting somewhere later. And I sent so many emails and put myself out there so many times when I looking back like really wasn't very strong and. I think it's still happening. I'm not right for everyone, but I'm right for somebody, some client. and as far as getting started, we teach a course called the art licensing blueprint, but we also have a free YouTube channel and we share a ton on our instagram@lumier.co. But. Don't want people to sign up for a course or invest in themselves unless they feel excited. So, that's why we try and do a lot of free education. We have a webinar because you know, that's the worst is when you like dive in and take the pledge and you're so excited and then you decide it's not right. And so I think learning about it for free YouTube Skillshare, doing as much research as you can to figure out is this something I want to dive into is as a really good place to start. Do you write your own stuff for card greeting cards itself? Yeah. Katie, you get this one, you are the queen of this. Yeah. I actually really love copywriting and I, some of my professors were. Kind of encouraging me to potentially be a copywriter, instead of like doing art direction or like both, but I ended up kind of utilizing that in this part of this iteration of my career. and I really enjoy writing copy, so, yeah. Oh, I like to write greeting cards, like in my voice, or like, make it a little more quirky, like, and say things like I would say to my family or my friends when I am excited or happy for them, which doesn't sound all stiff, like happy birthday. that's boring. You don't want to just wish a happy birthday. so yeah, that that's been really fun for me and I've actually had. A variety of clients that I've worked with her greeting cards, some of which, pick from my library of options, where they pick the more quirky things. Some people pick, like I had, I do have some options that are just more straight, common freezing. and then I've had some people want custom cards and they want me to, to write the copy as well, because they like my voice. So that's kind of cool. That's awesome. I think, I don't know that I've watched a hallmark movie about a greeting card copywriter, but I feel like if I haven't, I should be watching that, 500 days of summer, a good movie. I'm remembering it as a. No. Oh, I really liked it. Okay. Remember he is a copywriter and he, he comes up with something he's like, I love us. and everyone's like, yeah, that's it pick night. That's that's all you have to do. Putting that on my rewatch list still holds up and the soundtrack is awesome. I remember the soundtrack being good. Yeah. All right now I have Friday plans. That's good. The other thing that I wanted to dig into today is this kind of balancing or not, but Alanna, you mentioned you have two young kids. How has running your own business being an entrepreneur made room for you to be the mother that you wanted? Well, good question. I think, it's funny because when I first was like, I'm going to, I'm gonna work for myself. This was before I had kids. I was like, I'm gonna, you know, leave my nine to five. And like, what everyone says is that you leave your nine to five to work like 600. Literally 24 hours. and I burnt out obviously, I mean, who wouldn't? I had no boundaries. I never saw the people. Like I was always on my phone. I was on my computer and honestly finding art licensing where I could double dip, I guess that was the moment where I was like, oh, I don't have to work more hours. I have to work smarter. So that was part of it. And then I think the other thing is stepping into. Not hustling. I guess I I'm maybe girl boss a little bit when I was starting and learning that I could step into a leadership role and I could delegate and I could rely on other people for help. I mean, I still think about work a lot, but, and it's a constant I'm looking for harmony, not, like, you know, one skill is always going to be up and one is always going to be down because if I'm with my kids and I'm not working, if I'm with. Work then my kids need to be entertained somewhere else. You know? I think a lot of things happened like COVID is, a big piece of that and stepping into like where I work I really want to be doing. And just like all the reminders that we've had that life is so precious, I think. Just asking for help, I guess, is like the biggest thing there's so much that could be done. There's so much you could squeeze into a day and learning that my dollars, which, you know, I think most of us were brought up assuming that dollars were acquainted to time like an even trade and changing that mindset is it's pretty huge. And it's something I think I'll always be like, have top of mind. I don't know if you've ever. Completely forget about that, because if you're not on a salary or you're, even if you're on a salary, but you're passionate about your work, it's not something that's just like, well, I'm over that. So I think it's something that's like a constant something to be aware of and constantly check in with yourself on Katie. How is entrepreneurial life and the balance of where you're at today? Well, Yeah, I kind of have had a path, not with children, to realize this, but I did have a path that was similar with the burnout in the beginning. I think that's probably very common for somebody to just like hit the ground running and think that you have to be responsible for everything and you know, the more well you kind of do, but. I watched this, oh gosh, what was it called? It was, like this billionaire guy who they like dropped him on the street with like$10 or something or maybe$0. And they were like, you have to build a million dollar business by the end of 30 days or 60 days or something. And, it was a really cool show. I watched it on Hulu. And the first thing that he did, like after he found out. some money to start with was, build his team. that was his first step. And I thought that was really interesting and kind of gave me a mind set shift like Alaina. And I don't have, a huge team of people. We have some contractors who help us, but, we ask for help when we need it. And when we're stretched too thin. And, I think that's really a huge mindset shift and it's scary to think about investing in. Paying for outside help or, anything like that. Anytime that we've invested in that kind of thing or invested in something we really needed for productivity in our business. We've gotten it back like tenfold. And so that's a lesson that's been really important. And the more that we do that, and the more that. I also had issues with my mental health, where I started having panic attacks. And that was the first time that I'd experienced that. and near the beginning of my business. So I realized that I couldn't keep going like that even if I wanted to, because my body was just like shutting down. So yes, that I just threw a lot out there, but basically, figuring out. You need help and being okay with asking for that. And also that you have a finite amount of energy and mental space. And if you try and exhaust that past empty it's, there's some bad stuff that's going to happen to your body and it's just not worth it. It's not going to be good for the future of your business. I think the same goes for when you're. For someone to, if you're, whether you're an entrepreneur or just working a nine to five, it's so easy to be like completely drained and exhausted. But all of the things I think we said are relate to ask for help. I think so too. And I, I loved this idea of. Looking at the asking for help, not as like a last resort, but as a way to multiply and to really see it as an enabler, not a defeat. Oh yeah. Yeah. And having your art business too. I think a lot of people think that means you are just you and that's, it can only be a one-person business, but. Just going through this process. I I've totally changed my mindset on that. And, and even people who are like doing mostly just like freelance work, like our friend, Adam for example, he just hired a full-time designer to help him execute. we know a lot of people who do that kind of thing, where they hire support, where they need it, and they're still an art business, but they're just looking at it from more of a. Like a real business entrepreneurial standpoint, instead of like an artist trying to do what they think an art business is, you know, even if you're another great way to hire out as artists is, if you, for us, like, we might have an idea for a greeting card or for our next question collection or for client work and we might sketch something and then have someone who has. Can come in and refine the sketch, get it, add the color, do things like that. And that can save us hours. And as business owners hiring out social media was by far the best thing we have ever done that has freed up our time to actually work on our paid programs, which if someone is paying us, they deserve our attention. Whereas social media is. An asset, it's like a marketing tool. And so that has been incredibly helpful. And to spend the time to onboard someone and make sure they are a part of their team, our team, and invested in understand our mission and that we are there to support them as well. Because again, we simply cannot do it. It's super scary to make that investment in pay for, another person to do this stuff. But we, if we look at the trajectory of our business income, it is increased more, than her payment by like a lot, because we've freed up our time to go work in our, what, the common phrase zone of genius. and that that's huge. Opening up that time. It's important to just have that moment of self-reflection of here's something that is taking me a lot of time or more time than I'd like it to. And how could I make that different? One of my friends recently had a private chef come in every single week for like three months of her life. This private chef came in, made and prepped all of the food for four dinners. A week and made her lunches all week long. She was like, because I just wasn't taking really good care of myself. And I knew that I was going to get sick and I couldn't afford to get sick. And this was something that I could outsource and say, I could delegate this effectively to somebody that is more skilled than I am. And it was in that moment that I put private chef on the list of things that I am going to be doing at some point in my life, because doesn't that sound wonderful. We had a commerce. It sounds amazing. First of all, and we had a conversation recently where someone asked Katie and I, what is your ideal? What does your day look like? And then they asked if we were both excellent, no big deal. Here's what our day looks like. And then after they said, what is your ideal day look like? And then both Katie and I were like, wait as I get. We're living it. And we were like, oh wait, we're in the good times. Because if you start kind of doing the things that you actually enjoy, I mean, like for this private chef, you know, if you love cooking, then you have to find a way to carve out the time for cooking. And if you don't like cooking and it's stressing you out and a chef or a service or whatever it may be is going to alleviate that to let you step into the things that your ideal, your ideal day holds. That's amazing. Like, think about what you gained back from that. Yes. Yes. Oh, I really love this conversation. Remind people where they can find you as individuals and Lumyer on. We are@lumierdotcoandourwebsiteislumyer.co L O M I E R. And I'm Alana Griffin. I L a N a and I would say unusual. And Katie, is your handle just Alana dot Griffo. Is that what it is? A lot of Griffo. Okay. No dot people, no dot. don't put the.in there. I am Katie Johnson, K a T I E. And you can find me on Instagram at Katie made that and Katie made that dot. Love it. What is the go-to song you're listening to? When you want to up your energy up your energy? I would say probably like Lizzo or something. Yeah. I was going to say like, British Spears with my kids. we are big. you can call me Al you know, Bust out the moons. We also lived through a lot of Blippy so, yeah, sorry. Yeah, they also have, but we, oh, my children have sniffed out fake Blippy. Oh, I've heard about this. That there's two puppies now. That's what I heard, but it's like a, it's like someone trying to be Blippy it's a paid lippy in person. I mean, Blippy is now licensing his. Yeah. Yeah. A blue piece of marketing genius for everyone who does it is like the original YouTube star. He's everywhere. He has orange glasses. You can't miss him anyway. Let's not talk about Blippy. What time are you waking up? Hmm, well, I have two children, so if I want to accomplish anything before them, it has to be success. I get up at eight 30. Cause that's my dream. That's part of my dream day. And I also don't set an alarm. My body just gets up at that time though. Sounds amazing. Yeah. I don't have that. Yeah. I'm probably 5 38. Yeah. Yeah. That's quite early. Whatever decided the time to. Yeah, garbage, complete words like, oh, I'm on an avocado toast. mine's never consistent. My husband though is super sweet and like the other day he, made me like a menu of choices and like put my dog's face on it and was like, here we go. yeah, he's super sweet. He works like later in the day. so we have morning time together. So sweet. Do you have a favorite recent. I do a fi one line a day. I've been doing it for like four years. I just write down like a gratitude that. It's something that happened that day or something that made me smile or something memorable from the day. I really liked that, but I really don't think the journal should last five years. It is falling apart. So I'm going to start anyone next year. My favorite ritual is I go out in the woods with a candle and no, I'm actually really bad at. not having routines and anytime I try to implement one, I end up breaking it. So yeah, I kind of just float through and you know, I don't really have a ritual for you. Yeah. It works for me, but I've also tried many, many times to ritual myself and it's just something about it. I just can't do it. The book you've given or recommended the most, not your own. Austin Kleon steal your work. I think for both of us probably. Are we still, is that, did I just get it wrong? Like an artist, like an artist and then that a lot. Yeah. I mean, I recommend Seth Godin all the time. I'm obsessed with Seth Godin and I'm sure you know all about them casts. yeah, he's great. And he has a lot of books. this is marketing is, one that combines a lot of the ideas from many of his books. So I suggest that one a lot, but are we talking like that kind of book? Are we talking like, just, I mean, I, I reckon I recommend that to people. Who are in pretty much any industry, because that is awesome. and information about marketing and just people and relationships. And, yeah. It's, I feel like it applies to a lot of different people. I mean, I was just going to throw in Harry Potter, you know, just obviously, yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, if people don't know Harry Potter, you should probably read it. Yeah. Yeah. So just in case then get out of here. Thank you so much for your time today. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks for having me. I'm going to record the intro and then we'll wrap up. Great.