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friends today, we're talking to iffy. Becuae she is the principal attorney at the becuae law firm, a mom, a wife, a woman turning 40. I had loved this conversation. We chatted a lot about kind of making our own path, deciding what we want, the compromises that we felt like we needed to make. And. And taking a moment to question what we've believed to be true, to make something potentially that will love even more. I truly love this conversation. I know you will too. Let's get into it. Iffy. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I am so excited to chat with you today. We'll start off where we always do. Tell us a little bit about who you are and the work you do with. Yes. So I am a woman, a mom, a wife, and a lawyer, and I own my own business. I'm an entrepreneur who happens to practice law. And if you ask me what I do in the world, You know, that's such a good question. Cause I could just be like, well I do blah, blah, blah, as a career, but I want to experience it fully. If that makes sense. I want to take it in with every sense that I have. I'm turning 40 next month and I want to live fully in the world. I think that's a driving motivator for me. What does that mean to you? I'm still working that out. But I think a lot of it means that I'm giving myself a way more permission and I don't need as much buy in as I thought I did. In fact, I don't need any buy-in, but I'm still working towards, I don't need any buy-in. And so, I don't know how to express that more fully because I'm still a work in progress. But one example that came up today, I'm in a group a mastermind group with other lawyers and our. Challenged us to set a budget to spend on ourselves for the next year for fiscal year 2022, she says you could do things like preplan and pre-pay for trips that are at least four days away by yourself to somewhere where you want to go. It could be Paris. It could be a staycation, but planet and book it. And I was just like, oh, that is. That's too much and, and see made the, the analogy. Think about all the things you're overspending on because you feel like you're not fully giving yourself permission to do things. So that might be food, eating out, shopping, and add those things up and see, what would it feel like if you just prioritize yourself at least quarterly with. How would that change? How you interact with your spouse and your employees and your coworkers? And I was just like, It was just so much permission. It was too overwhelming for me. And I was like, well, I gotta get my husband to buy in. And I got to get like, what will my in-laws think if I'm leaving by the holidays to go somewhere for my 40th birthday next month out of the country, what kind of mother it's all this buy-in and what it does is it, it really just limits your ability to live. And so that's what I'm working on. I feel like that is one of the gifts of 40. I turned 40 in August of 2020. So it was mid COVID. And I remember just having this energy of, you know, what I do, what I want and really feeling like, be damned with anybody or anything that's going to get in the way of me not living the fullest expression of my life. Like. I do what I want. That is such a boss thing. It's frightening. Yeah. Yes, yes. Especially when, and I, I imagine that you are like me in this way and that we, we did what we thought we had to do, and we followed the rules and we did the right things at the right time. And to be like, oh yeah, that playbook that you are working off. Somebody completely made that shut up. Yeah. And you get to do it your own way. That is, that is a scary kind of liberation life changing. I mean, I, I mean, you bring up so much when you say that. And I do think it has something to do with becoming 48. Now I've opted out of things that I felt obligated to do for the longest time, like holidays I'm out, you know, or making it to birthday parties, even for friends. I just, I don't have the bandwidth and I think I've fully been sloughing away skin that is just dead and it's exhausting and I have four kids, so it's also doubly exhausting to go places with them and be in a car with them. And it, it might be more restful for us to just stay here right. And go at an off time or in another time. And so just really thinking through all of the ways that. I'm saying no to my mom, I'm saying no to my in-laws and I'm like, Larry, I'm not coming for Thanksgiving. We're just not, we're going to have it here. Anyone is welcome to come here. It takes a lot to move this whole ship and to go somewhere and figure out where we're all going to sleep, because there are so many of us. And so those little things. So far away from the we're not doing it. And so I'm very excited that I will be exercising the permission and not wanting buy-in and really saying in order for me to be my fullest expression of myself and not think of it as selfishness, more like an investment in everything like my business, my family, my marriage, my relationships, my sense of being me. I think I have to invest more in this next. Sounds it's I'm hearing it, but it also sounds like that is so part of everyone's, so self-centered and selfish and I'm like, I'm not just saying like, I've come to this realization. That's what it is. Yeah. I feel like this is one of those realizations that you have, and you always have this choice in this moment to say. Yeah. Are you going to back this, thinking up with your action and it's challenging and to do it is such a gift and I love how you framed it as an investment. Not just in yourself, but what becomes possible for everybody that's in your ecosystem? Yes, both personal and friends and family and work and all of these different places where we wear hats, what becomes possible for all of them. When you would you fully nourished. You know, I, I really, I mean, I know that's not rhetorical and probably is a little rhetorical, but I really don't know. I've never done it. Yeah. I feel that iffy. I feel that what is possible if we fully live like ourselves, like it's so luxurious to me to just rent an Airbnb in my little town and go away for two nights seems, I mean, other worlds. And fathomable. Right. And, and I used to, I used to have like these sorts of excuses, for example, I'm going to a conference in Atlanta and I thought, well, I'm going to a conference in Atlanta. Right. But it's get in talk at you all day. Right. Dinners and networking and all that stuff. It's not like I'm going to Atlanta to hang out and see friends and have a girl's weekend. I'm going to work. And I'm still thinking, well, I did just get to go to Atlanta, like getting on a plane is somewhere and sleeping away from home for three nights is some way my reward and it has nothing to do with a break. It's just, it's just I'm away, but I, I'm not even counting things like that in the future. That does not count that's for work. So I'm so interested to find out more about what that means. You know, one of the things that I don't know if you feel this way, When it comes to the permission part it's I can do it. I can find ways to pay for it, but I still get, I still get caught up in, I need buy in from everybody before I can do it. Like my kids, my husband. And what's it going to mean for them, for me to be a way. And I'm like, they'll be fine. They will be fine. They will be fine, but I completely relate to this feeling of yes, but well, I be okay with them not needing me yeah. In that window. And I, I still relate to that. It's funny. Not wanting to take some kind of like, you're not invited. None of you. It is. And I think reframing it from selfish to self-nurturing yes. Is so important there. And I am like right in there. I am not writing with Sharpie here. If he, I am in there with the pencil dirty from all of the eraser marks on my own paper on this. Yeah. I had a similar situation come up just yesterday. I got invited to go speak in an event at the end of November. And I have to speak on Tuesday in order to be sure that I could get there for the event. I have to leave on Monday and I'm like, well, I could potentially take the red eye back so I can be home. I thought the same thing. It's 6:00 AM the next morning. I could potentially do that. And then. Wait a minute. Who am I doing that for? Because what version of me comes back and gets off a plane at 6:00 AM and functions, not a very good one. And I wanted to cheat myself even out of that opportunity to nurture and it's. So like, where did I learn that? Everywhere everywhere. I mean, I don't want to presume, but your mother, her mother, your dad you're listening. And I know it. And, but you taught me this. Yeah. Those books everywhere. We learned that everywhere, everywhere. We learned that. And we also learned that if it's the opposite of that, Again, selfish. It's self-centered it's vain. It's not it's not, it's proud. It's not humble. Right? It's self-serving. And yet you see people who have run themselves into early graves, highly medicated, very anxious, depressed, all sorts of things, because we refuse to just. Stop. Yeah. You know, I've been really toying with this whole concept of embracing ease. I have this easy button on my desk and I recorded all of these messages about ease and it's, for me, it's been very interesting because the idea of embracing ease means that if I take things off my plate, I'm not putting anything back. Yeah. And it's like, but I have ruined now, what am I going to do with all that time? Right. Same thing with, as a business woman, raising my rates, charging for consultations. Now I don't have as many tire kickers. Now I can really do the. Do less work and make more money. Right. Pay my employees better. More consistently. They're not run down because they're overly scheduling all these people. Right. And dare I say, it gets a little bit easier and then you're thinking, well, I should add on to something else. And it's like, no. What if we cultivate more ease in our homes and in our work life and in our friendships where it's not just scheduled to the Hills and you look at your calendar, it's just a solid block. You don't even build in breaks to go to the bathroom, things like that. Everything is just back to back to back to back. What if we take off a whole day and not open to work? What if we take off two days, not even work and have breaks built in, and we only consolidate our work to very distilled focus time. You know, you can get really, really granular, but what if right? Yeah. What if we gave our permission to, to totally revolutionize things and say, this is when I work. This is all I can do for work this week. Anything else is extra for next week? Not, oh, I finished early. Let me do more, but oh, I finished early. Let me go outside and sit in my yard and enjoy the sunshine. I mean, depending on where you are. Right. And so. We have to unlearn so many horrible patterns that we've seen in our media and our homes and our friendships just generationally. It's just how we're raised to be martyrs, especially as women, of course, as women martyrdom is the, is the standard. And that has to, that has to change. But with intention I think, and I'm still, I still struggle with that. I don't know what that means. Exactly. I love this conversation and it's, it's bringing so much to the surface in terms of advocating for the ease that we want, and then treating that ease when we get it as this sacred gift. Oh, for sure. And not giving it back and being like, no, I'm good. I feel like the phrase. No, I'm good. Is my, it is my new red flashing sign that I am not asking for what I want and need. Like, you know, somebody is like, can I refill your water? I don't want them to, I don't want them to be troubled by refilling my water. So I say, no, I'm good, please. Don't please don't extend your arm and fill my cup as you're here over my shoulder. Yeah, it's weird. Do you haven't. I have three daughters. Yeah. I have four children as well, and I have two daughters and I think it's been really interesting for me as, as I'm doing a better job modeling this, take your responsibility for yourself, prioritizing yourself, you know, doing, doing my work and seeing my daughters pick up on that and then feeling my annoyance. With them when they don't comply. it is like equal parts. There is such a rub in there for me of like pride and annoyance. Yeah. It's because you're raising them like you weren't raised. Yeah. It's tough. Right? Cause it's a dichotomy where you're like cannot. And then you're like, yes, you can. Like, if they fuck up or don't want to hug someone, do you know what I mean? I'm like good, you know? And then I'm like, Ooh, what you're supposed to, but I feel comfortable right now that you don't want to hug these people. They really want to hug you. They're going to hug them. And they're like, ah, bad vibes. Don't want it not to touch her. Right. And you're like, that's right. Stand in. Or babe. Yeah, I got a four year old. She's an introvert. She's super cute. I also have a one-year-old like this really like. Cute little pack, you know, they're so cute at that age. Yeah. They don't want to please. You, they are not the type to like song and dance. So you get a smile or play peek-a-boo with a stranger. They're just like, side-eye rolling eyes, like hiding, like, oh, weirdo. And then you see people react in this way where you're like, you think you're supposed to be like, go on, say hi. And I'm like, oh, she's not. She's not that kind of kid. She's not going to smile and play peek-a-boo with a stranger. She's just automatically respect her own boundaries and does not want to interact with you because you don't deserve her time. I don't know what's going on in her head, but she's comfortable and it's everywhere. And it's sometimes with relatives and you're just like, I'm so sorry. They're not mean kids. She's just like, Hmm. Whereas, if I were a kid, they'd be like, go say hi to blah, blah, blah. Oh, well, didn't you hear that person talking to you at the grocery, right? You need to speak when an adult speaks to you or all these terrible messages actually. But nonetheless, there in me where I'm like, oh my gosh. If someone speaks to you, you should reply back. And she'd be like, if you know, you're supposed to do all these things, I'm not teaching them on anymore. Or I hope my mom never hears this. He's always like, like a lady, you know, sit like a lady to the girls and I'm just like, well, she didn't say that to my son when he was legs akimbo at the, you know, taking, flipping around on the floor in the living room. I mean, it's not like we're out in public and you're pulling your underwear down. She's just being a kid. And I'm like, well, we don't have any ladies in this. You know, what are we like the English maneuverability. Who's a lady here, where's this coming from? And so just little things like that. It's like, I want you not to have your legs in the air like that, but I also didn't shame your brother when he did. And so I have to like such a hypocrite because I never even think that for him, you know? Yeah. Your legs should be in the air. It's fine. Exactly. I think there is so much of this, especially. With daughters. I think, you know, I, I had an objectivity with my boys. Well, it's like almost a little. Like how I show up is what they're going to be looking for potentially, you know, I'm going to grab all of this. Cause I don't even know. Have you been running into this in your own life? If you were like, you start talking about something and you're like, oh shit, that might not be true for me anymore. I think part of being introspective is really questioning where a lot of this comes from and if it's true or if there's something that you've Taken us back and it's in the law. We say it's facts, not in evidence, right? It's just, you it's, it's something it's, it's something you've heard. Maybe even hearsay, like that's the way or tradition says. And then so much of that has been imprinted on your brain that you start saying things and you, you. Huh? I don't even believe that, or I don't know why I said that and I don't know where that's coming from. And so that introspective piece is when you do the deep dives in your thinking, I used to say that all the time, but I actually, like, I don't believe that. So why am I saying. And I'm going to stop saying that because I don't know where that's coming from, but I don't like how it makes me feel like all this stuff that we put on our kids, you know, I've even heard people say things like, oh, you just need to, my family's originally from Nigeria, just put your head down and be the best. And then you don't have to worry about all the ills of the world because people are going to see you have straight A's or that you were in GT. And that's all you need to do. And it's, I wish, right. I wish you could just be a stellar scholar and that you wouldn't be exposed to things like racism and sexism and misogyny and, and favoritism and all the things that happen just because we live in the world because you're just an excellent. Oh, sign me up. Let's get everybody into, into AP everything. And so it's just one of those things you have to start saying like, well, that doesn't work and that's not going to be what it is for me. And I'm not going to put that on my kids. That's the hard part. Cause we don't know if it's going to work. They're going to be on their podcasts in the next 30 years saying, oh, our moms and dads raised us to be, oh, you're so amazing. And look what it's gotten us. Nothing, no discipline, no boundaries, you know, too many boundaries. Now I'm a cold cutoff person, right? It's like, we're going to get it too, because we don't know. But I do think that, I mean, as a child of the eighties, like you, there was a level of hands-off ness that I feel, I'm not convinced that my parents were sitting and mulling about these things. Not that they were neglectful or anything, but I think that the level of. Investment. We put into our children outside of, you know, basic needs, but really like, how are they feeling? And, you know, I don't think my parents did that. No, they didn't. I think here's the difference. I think when I came home from school, somebody said, how was your day? And I would answer and. And then we move on. Yeah. Now my kids home come home from school and on the back of their take home folder or 30 different ways that I can ask them how their day was, so that they'll be more engaging with me. Yeah. There is a woman on Instagram who has these role plays for what to ask instead of how was your, how was school today? And it's like, I bet you played on the soccer field today and you're supposed to do all these games just to get them to say no. In fact, I was on the monkey bars and it was fun. And then Jimmy hit me. It's like, my parents never. And I do it. I'm not gonna lie. I do, I do do it. I do ask them because I feel like, I feel like I need to know better and it works. Yes. And I do feel like I'm, I'm, I'm asking more probing questions. I think I'm more, at least I have the perception that I am involved in their life. Hey, Derek, this is Cass, just hopping in because we had a break and our conversation as goes with. You know, pandemic times. I don't even remember whose child it was. They came in the room, but it disrupted our frame of conversation. And we got into a little bit more about kind of how I life has shifted, how we're parenting is different than our own parents, because of the pandemic. And it was such an interesting rich conversation as I was editing this episode that I had to leave it in, but I needed to give you the listener a little context as to why we just jumped from one place to the next in. Just a couple of seconds so we're going to get back into the show and just that's your way background When we were a little kid, I would go and play at a friend's house. And if I got sick, I got a cold, I got whatever strep throat, chicken pox, all of the hand, foot and mouth, all of the things that we used to get. Right. That was just the way things went. Now I have to take a level of ownership. Yeah. That is, I don't know if it's all together very good or healthy for anybody. I think it's interesting in the context of a literal plague, I was telling my husband, I said, we are literally experiencing a plague. Like I think all bets are off. It's different than a common cold with no fever. Like, oh, go get your immunity. Right. But you're right. I think it goes back to just the, the change. Well, first of all, I think that there is such a. In the font, everything is divided right now, right. Everyone has to take their sides. So there are people who might think I'm personally responsible to make sure that I do everything in my power to limit this to my home, to my exposure, they take the precautionary measures. They informed they stay home, they masked up or whatever it is to keep. They're always, there's always been those people. They're always like up, you've got a runny nose, no fever. It doesn't matter. You're staying home. Right. I'm going to let them know this is what your symptoms are just in case anybody else in school gets it. Right. And then there are people who are like, give them a Tylenol, let's wash your face, you know, blow your nose and, you know, go to school. Right. And hopefully it won't spike. So they don't send you home and I can go back. I do think that that has always existed. But I think that when you are literally in a pandemic, that kind of duality is like it's life-threatening. It is. And I also think like, to the families that had a positive COVID test and didn't report. What was involved in, they're not reporting it, like how much shame that they feel. Well, it's a stigma now. It is. It's a whole thing. It's like, so what did you do? And it's like, I have no idea what I did. I went to the grocery store. I don't know what I did. It's weird too. When you think about it, I dropped off, we dropped off one of the kids. Yeah, because her class is still open and the school is wonderful. Don't get me wrong. We did not even get to go in the school. They are still massed up. So when you find places where people are still, I'm falling all the stereotypes here, but like following protocols and really. Trying to do their best in a terrible situation, then I'm thinking, well, what should we be going anywhere and find out at 9:00 PM. So do we go home? What is the protocol? Because technically she's home, but how is that helping our home? And if something happened in our home, how's that? Cause it's like, in the morning we get an email classes is over for two. Does that mean that everybody in the house needs to be home for two weeks? It's so unclear and so confusing and I love protocol. I want to know what am I supposed to do? Is this the right thing to do? Right. And how do you function and make money? I know that's the capitalist coming out of me when you're an entrepreneur. How do you. Feed your family, if this is the expected protocol, which I think is why we don't have one. Yeah. I feel like it has to be in everybody's best judgment, knowing what they've got going on. There are points in my own life where that would have devastated me and crippled my ability to make a living threatened my ability to pay the mortgage. Like, I feel very grateful that that's no longer the position that I've got to worry about my inconvenience, as opposed to, you know, Kind of mass laws, law of basic needs. It's like, it wasn't threatening any of that, but it's still incredibly disruptive. And I have to hold space that not everybody is, is privileged to have that. I mean, I feel like, yes. And I said entrepreneur, but it's any working person. I remember when I had my third child and I was working at a at a nonprofit. And I had no leave cause I just had a third child and gotten back to work and then they got RSV. Right. And you can't do anything like you can't be out. I can't take her to daycare. And I have no leave and, and I know that I've been gone and, and, and it wasn't like a pandemic, but it's like the anxiety of being like, I am not making this up. Right. I want to be able to move on without disruption, but these are my circumstances. And I think a lot of people are facing that. I always thought it was very interesting. During the pandemic, when you realize who was still working, everyone's ordering, right? So the delivery people, people working in supply chains Uber eats Postmates people, delivering food, certainly didn't stop grocery workers. Of course, the essential workers at the hospitals and, you know, fire department police, they didn't stop. And so there is such a class. Privileged to it as well. Where, how fortunate that you can work from home? I'm in my office right now. Yeah. Working from upstairs in the guest bedroom, because that's where I set up shop. Cause I can, I don't have to go in. I live in Arkansas. My business is based in Texas and Arkansas, but all my employees are in Texas. I can afford to live here. I have the privilege of living here, running my business from here, going back quarterly or so. To say hi to the team. Right. And having meetings virtually, which has been wonderful, but that is a privilege because there are times when I have to go into an office and be at that phone answering calls or doing whatever that job required. So I could be an in-person meetings. Right. It's just very interesting this whole season of life. And, you know, you hear about the great resignation people, the tax on women when your kids are home and when you're the new teacher and when you're the new everything, and you're still trying to work. And how many women have voluntarily or involuntary. Right. Cause it's just unsustainable to do all those things and you know, all these factors come into it. I don't have a simple answer. And I really, I remember one thing that came out with a mom groups I'm in for lawyers, it was like, stay at home and homeschool. You're doing a great job. Send your kids back to school. You're doing a great job, you know? And it was like EV hybrid virtual school. Great job. Yeah. Cause we don't have the right. Right. Yeah. And they were changing all the time and they still are. So I always look at situations like this. And I think to myself, this is a Google map situation I have where I am. I know where I'm trying to go. There was never only one way to get there. And I am willing to hold space that there is a shorter way and a longer way, a more scenic way. There are better ways. And my choice is to do the way that is going to bring me the most. Whatever way it might be the most complicated. It might take me twice as long, but if I am joyful in doing it, I will be grateful that I made that choice and looking at all of these various things that we've talked about in this, I love this conversation. If I really have looking at all of these different things and saying, okay, how do I intentionally. I want to choose to live this life. What is going to feel most aligning to me is my objective ease is my objective joy. Like where does it fall and how can I make my choice? Not with other people's permission, but with my, with my joy and for the people that I am responsible for, how do I model the best version? At work, it is worthy work. Yeah. And I think it, it has to. It has to be aligned to what your values are. If you value community, you do things that are community minded, value, joy, you do things that bring you that, and, and everyone is different. I think from what you just said, because I've lived in other countries where there is, it's a value based decision. Right. But I'm just listening to what you said makes me realize you can not control other. And how they choose to live their lives. And I think that that has been very freeing for me in this season. Just like I don't want to be controlled and and forced to do anything. I think that I have to extend that same level of grace to other people too. I have to, even if I disagree, right. They're making that choice to, we all have free. Will. Yeah. And what a good thing it is to have that, not everywhere. Do you have that? Yeah, if he, I don't, I don't know what you came here to talk about today. I think so. I hope people find value in that. You know, it just felt like a phone conversation with them. And I think people love it too. I, yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed this. I think it is coming at just the right time. I've got a lightening round of questions, but before I ask them, where can people find you on. You can find me on Instagram at iffy becuae Esq. That's my personal Instagram page. I also have a law firm page becuae law PLLC. My website, for those of you who might be interested in estate planning services, is it becuae law.com. And then I have a personal website. If you becuae.com, if you are ever looking for a speaker or you're an entrepreneur who needs guidance. I do a little bit of coaching too. In anywhere you Google me, I really do I say that now, cause I really do come up in the Googler. So, and it'll, you'll find me somewhere saying something on somebody's podcast. If you what's your go-to song, when you went to up here. Oh my gosh uptown funk by Bruno Mars, that song is basically ageless in my mind. It is so good. Just get up and dance, you know, so, I love that one. And then Whitney Houston, I want to dance with somebody. I think I just have a niche that early nineties sound. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. What time do you wake up? I usually wake up around six 30. What does breakfast look like? First is pretty uniform. It looks like English muffin or gluten-free bread. Clearly. I'm not, you know, strict on that smoked salmon and egg and. And some blueberries, it's almost always that young. Do you have a favorite ritual? Yes. I love my new ritual, which is my end of day ritual because I realized I was listening to Ariana's happened to talk about how she worked work, work, work, work for the HuffPost and fell and broke her cheek. And she was at this conference. I attended. How many of you have an end of day work ritual? When is the end of your Workday? Especially as entrepreneurs, right lawyers. It was all lawyers and I thought, and so now I have a whole ritual of preparing for the next Workday and making notes, my priorities for the list for the week in a list of just two priorities. And then everything else can just be pushed on or is considered extra. To become the norm. And then I literally closed my laptop and walk out the door and close it behind me and I'm done till the next time. It's my new favorite ritual. It's so good. It's nice to close the door on it and have closure on your professional contribution when it's always left open. There's something symbolic about having that as a ritual. I love that. Yes. What is a book you've given or recommended them on? Well, I've given or recommended the most. Well, I'm going to get one that I recently have been giving out. It's called. We should all be millionaires by Rachel Rogers. I was in her membership for a year and it was such an inspiring read. I don't think we should all be millionaires. I think for those who aspire to be, we should be, but I don't think. Be a millionaire anymore. But I do think we should be able to have a living wage and, and have extra to do an experience life for, and money is often the muscle that allows you to do that. If you have love in this conversation. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me CAS.