In this episode we dig deeper into terminology and concepts around cloud computing. Learn more about not only what things mean, but why you should care.
Welcome to Azure for the win for mostly Azure focus cloud podcast. Brought to you by blue silver shift. You're like to get together on a Friday, talk about cloud technology. Usually have a few drinks, just try to have a few laughs and have some fun. Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Azure for the wind podcast a. We have your blue silver shift team here. Uh, we have your moderator, myself, Mark Volsan. We also have the partners, John Dobson. Hello everybody. And quick Slack. Hello again. All right, so this is actually a part two, uh, of a, uh, two partner that we, um, have been, have been working on. Uh, so we did part one a while back actually. So I think it was, it was late August, so we're, we're into late September now. Uh, you know, summertime people go away on vacation trips like that. It's kind of act to school back to school's caught of the way, but we're, we're back at it and we're hopping to a part two. So this is part two of cloud terminology. And, uh, we caught a bunch of new terms. We're going to be going over today. Uh, so we're going to be, we've got a bit of a list of been debating about the order. We're going to go through them. Uh, it's gonna be mostly Craig and John going through these, these terms and I'm going to be popping out some new ones. I actually have some on the list that I actually am really curious about cause I don't have a really good definitions myself. Um, so I'm looking forward to this before we jump into the meat of our podcasts as per usual. We do have a couple of drinks. It's a Friday afternoon here for us. So we're going to be a enjoying couple drinks. I have some scotch and uh, this is, uh, when we've had before.[inaudible] you wanna you LIS lay it on. It's only because it's got my name in it. Craig Aleke. It's from a Speyside. Uh, any regular listeners would know that. That's one of my favorite regions. Um, and I'm going to have the same. So I will take that. And John has his, a usual, I have my usual and any regular listeners will know what that is and for those. And what is that for those non regular listeners? What are you, it's um, Ryan Coke. I think you have just plain rye last time. Just Brian ginger, don't you know I do Ryan coat every short glass with that regular Coke. Just like Julian[inaudible] trailer park right there. Your ship. He does happy Friday. Okay. So before we get into this, I'm surprised that uh, all of us are here. You know, none of us are down in Nevada for the, uh, storming of the area 51. It's happening today. I believe 75 people turned out is what I heard. I was supposed to be 2 million. I'm really surprised, but I honestly thought that was going to be a couple thousand people that we're going to show up. You know, I didn't think they were actually going to try to storm area 51, but I thought there was gonna be a lot more people in the desert. Werrington foil hats. There are still that may people in the desert wearing tempo hats. They're just not at[inaudible]. Exactly. The burning man. They're the real sites. That's true. Yes. I see. I saw some videos with some Naruto running going on. Um, there's a term for you and their Ruto running.
Speaker 2:Okay. I don't even know that one. So you're going to educate us at the end of the podcast. You want to be able to know, we'll record it later. I do the outtake. What has never rude or running or do route or running is, um, let's get into our terms.
Speaker 1:Sure. So, um, cloud terminology, we went through a bunch last time we talked about private versus hybrid versus public cloud, multi cloud IaaS path as drowse as all those cool things. So, uh, if everything I just said to you is jibberish go check out episode one, um, we're gonna be jumping around a few different topics today are a few different terms, but the one I wanted to start off with was actually one that I find a lot of people have a hard time describing. Even Microsoft has a hard time describing, I've had people ask me what this word means many times. And I feel like no one ever really has a very good answer. So let's, let's hear. We got some really good answer tenant and we're going to John first on this. What is a tenant? So
Speaker 3:tenant tenant means different things to different people in different situations. Uh, from a business standpoint, um, you are renting space on, uh, in a variety of ways from Microsoft and Azure. Um, and you're renting, um, you know, a server, um, a virtual server, a PaaS service or otherwise within their space and their space is shared is, is a data center or a different data centers. Um, and a tenant is your area inside of there a space and a tenant in the active directory terms is, um, you call it an active directory tenant because that is your security boundary around your area as it relates back into a subscription. So if you think about an apartment building, it's like an apartment building and you, you get one suite within that apartment building that is, you are a tenant inside of that part of the building. So in reality it's your, the tenant, the business is the tenant consuming the servers. But, but Microsoft has laid out this area for you. Okay. And that's actually the subscription.
Speaker 2:Uh, no because you can have multiple subscriptions.[inaudible] talk about subscription in a second. But I like the analogy of an apartment because like an apartment, you've got walls and you're, you're sharing a wall with your neighbor but you can't walk through that wall. So there is that, that's a, in a, in the apartment context of physical boundary. In the cloud con you all have the virtual Bauer, same water, right. Same, uh, eat grass and in grass. Yeah. Elevator building, getting in and out of that. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1:It's actually not far off from a description of gave off the top of head, but it's a little bit, a little bit different. I think yours probably makes a bit more sense. When I described tenure to somebody, once I described it as the tenant is your PO, you purchased a plot of land. So your tenant is your plot of land. You can build anything you want on it. So you can, you can actually build multiple structures. And I guess to me those would be the different subscriptions that your tenant is your plot of land. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And, and you want to know what the other thing that's applicable in your analogy is the mom and pop shop that sells milk on the corner can have an Azure tenant and general electric can have a tenant and they can be on the same, they could be a physical infrastructure, but you will never know. But it could be, right? Yup. They're sharing that. So, so
Speaker 2:the cloud is all about shared services, shared infrastructures, share like, Hey, you know, you're, you got the masses that are contributing to
Speaker 3:yeah. Lower costs because it's overall, so you say terms like, um, that is my Azure tenant.[inaudible],
Speaker 1:what does AWS, what is he equivalent AWS terminology? Tenant does it tenants. They have subscriptions as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So, but a tenant could have multiple subscriptions as you said. Yes. So that's leads into the next one,
Speaker 1:which is subscribe. Well yeah. So, so I'm sure[inaudible] have we covered that or does that mean kind of not really. No.
Speaker 2:So if we take that boundary concept further, the subscriptions can be the rooms in an apartment. So you've got your, your washroom where you go and have a shower, brush your teeth or whatever you use. The services that you do in that room are contained like there of one type of service. Uh, now their subscription might be your bedroom, you go to their, to go to sleep or whatever. Right. So subscription is a, another boundary of resources. And you know, you put these like resources into a subscription. Um, and uh, you know, we won't go further into talking about resources cause there's different strategies. There is, there's kind of a hierarchy of the tenant is first, then the subscription and then resource groups. Then the resources.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And policy gets applied in that order as well. Yeah. And uh, the only thing I would add in for from my perspective is a good thing for the listeners is, um, a subscription is a, um, top level area of cost accountability. So, um, as an example, if you are inside a company, everyone tries to go to one subscription, you could actually slice up and say, this department gets that subscription, this department gets to this subscription and they can all be inside the same as your region and interact with no extra egress charges. But the point is, is, um, you can have many[inaudible]
Speaker 1:would you say that it is typical for the relationship to be one-to-one for company and tenant?
Speaker 3:No, no, no. Depends on the size. You would have production and development subscriptions if you want to keep them separate that way because remember, you could that, um, the developers can access production and uh, they can only access development as an example. Or maybe you would allow everyone into it, but you then you would give them different rights. Some would just have read access, others would have read. Right.
Speaker 1:Okay. So[inaudible] prescription. So would you have like I, I, you'd have multiple strip subscriptions but you could have multiple tenants as well. I was trying to, I'm just thinking about multiple tenants.
Speaker 3:Yeah. But it tenant goes back to the billing entity. Really. Okay. So all subscriptions are have to be paid by a company and the tenant,
Speaker 2:the tenant also in, in the Azure contacts anyway. Purity bounced. Security boundary. Exactly. So there's the, the Azure active directory is tied at the tenant level. You can have as your active directory multiple as your active directory is though separate. You can, but that's a different concept. We won't get into that today. But, um, the, it's a security boundary and you have a users, uh, or or servers, accounts or whatever at the tenant level that can be granted access to resources, subscriptions and so on within that tenant. So it's, again, you've got the key to get in. So you're getting into your apartment, you opened the door, everything in there is accessible, but you may not be able to open. Like your girlfriend may have a key to, you know, her jewelry box that you can't get into. Well that's another boundary. I agreed. Agreed.
Speaker 3:Um, that's a good idea. And also on that, I just wanted to add that, um, most enterprises, the goal though the, the Valhalla or Holy grail or whatever you want to call it, is um, to have one authenticating authority, one act of directory or one otherwise ability to actually get in there. So you would have one tenant governing them all. Okay. That sounds like a saying like
Speaker 1:I have just one new friend, one tenant and then them. And then there's also
Speaker 3:a M a VPN, a Piering, uh, principle vignette period. The net peering can happen at the tenant level as well. Right.
Speaker 1:I crossed subscriptions. We should come up with some, I'm going to come up with some good Lord of the rings cloud of memes now. Okay. That's a good challenge. Yup. Okay. So you said he's, John's rolling his eyes. I don't like word of the runs like a, excuse me. Uh, I think you mean star Trek and star Trek. Yes. I'm going to do some star Trek and come on some star Trek cloud memes, although I feel like that's too easy. They write themselves, try harder. They do. Okay. A locator. So you said something, actually that was a little bit down our list. We'll jump into into that. Um, one of John's favorite topic topics. Ingress versus egress, right.
Speaker 3:So, um, the idea is on-prem on premises or in the cloud, you have to have an ingress solution or plan. Let's just leave it at that back
Speaker 1:up to define ingress. Yeah. Well, pardon me. So that's the way
Speaker 3:people use the term is to actually, I can't use the term[inaudible].
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, so you have to have a plan for inbound and outbound network traffic. So ingress is in inbound traffic and egress is outbound traffic and the inbound has many different variations. So you could have a web server on the front end of your system. You could have um, uh, people RDP being in bound to your, to your core of your network through an inbound public service point. And you have to actually come up with ingress style solutions for that. And conversely, egress. And you can add onto this Craig, uh, yeah. On or do you want to add onto,
Speaker 2:I was going to add on the ingress. Yeah. So things that you need to consider on ingress is, you know, protection. So firewall, yeah. Web application, firewall, those sorts of things that are going to forms and network security groups can play a role in that too. So you behind, so
Speaker 1:yeah, you're literally, you guys are literally listed over, but we'll define those later.
Speaker 2:Find those later. But, but you've got to protect the ingress traffic. So if you open up everything to the world, you're going to get hacked and you know, whatever is going to happen. But if you, you know, protect that ingress traffic, that's number one. So no[inaudible]
Speaker 3:he, uh, ingress and uh, that's a good point. You have to protect that traffic. You've got to look in the stream and protected the available number of ports, as Craig said, cause everyone and their dog has a scanner. Now, um, the egress is a controlling the outbound access and that's really to control. Um, if you do get compromised or if you've got a process that is compromised outside your system, that your system will go and bring it in to you or do you mean? Well, um, you, you actually have, uh, processes where there's a server inside that's going to get an update or something or a DNS spoofing issue that happens inside and your servers will go through if they, if they just have an, um, not tethered but on, you know, the, if nothing's restricting it and nothing, nothing's a reverse web proxy they call it. Um, what happens is, is that servers can talk to anything out there and those things can be dirty or compromised and bring traffic right back in or bad compromises right back in. So you have to have an ingress and egress plan is my point. And a lot of people don't even think about it.
Speaker 2:And I don't think we need to go too far into this because if I recall correctly on a previous podcast, we've talked at detail about ingress and egress. Maybe not. Maybe we did.
Speaker 1:I dunno. Well, it's all good if we don't think we did on the terminology. Yeah,
Speaker 2:no, not on the terminology. No, no. Yeah. But if we didn't, we'll listen to our previous podcast. If we didn't, we'll do a whole podcast on John's topic. Ingress and egress. Oh, I did a M as your Fridays, an internal thing that we have on it on ingress. So that's true. Maybe I can ever do one on Negress cause it's boring. Well the other thing with E grass is if you've got a multi-cloud strategy, I'll add this, right? So it's a something for companies you consider when you in the public cloud realm, you don't pay for ingress traffic, the amount of bandwidth you're consuming data coming into Azure, AWS, GCP, whoever. You're not paying that for that. That's free. They want all your data. That's okay to get data out or any, any traffic that's going across the wire out to the internet, whether it be to your own on-prem or to another cloud vendor because you got a hybrid or multi-cloud strategy that comes at a cost. So you actually have to pay for that. There are things you can do to minimize those costs and we won't get into those in this topic. But a, uh, that point is something to consider. ER, ER, ER, egress charges can be excessive. It's like the reverse of the Langdale ferry
Speaker 1:[inaudible] to go over, but it's free to come back. Gotcha. Our listeners
Speaker 2:in Australia won't actually understand what that is. So it's like taking a ferry from the Sydney to a, uh, you don't take it to Kedzie beach, but whatever you're, yeah, there's no barrier that way, but
Speaker 1:all right. So in other words, the ferry that you only have to pay one way because they know that you can't get back. They just want to get here. Yeah. Okay. On the way back. I got ya. All right. So, um, I'm just gonna go in order cause you got, you guys mentioned a whole bunch of things that are on this list down below. So I'm just gonna go to the next one. So network security groups, verse firewalls. Okay. And John is pointing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we kind of did touch on this already. So very briefly, network security groups in the Azure context. And uh, you know, this is pretty universal, but it is, it's not a firewall. Some people think it's a firewall, some people think it will protect their virtual network within Azure in the cloud. Um, the thing is it will actually, it's just, it's another security boundary, but there's no, there's no logging. There's no, there's minimal, uh, controls you're controlling at the port level or IP address level to say we allow this traffic from this source location or source IP or anywhere in the world. Yeah. To this destination point or this entire sub net or whatever.[inaudible] it's essentially just a, it's a port forwarding port, um, um, control rule. If you mess up those rules without a firewall in place, you're opening yourselves up and you may not know because it's very difficult to look at something and sometimes you can have, you know, you're allowed up to 200 rules, NSG, uh, and some of those rules are going to have multiple IP addresses and ports associated with them. So it can be become very unmanageable and due the lack of logging on it and so on. So versus firewalls, you said network and SGS, network security groups versus firewall. So firewalls provide that protection. They've got the logging built in. You know, if you're using one of the, uh, the builtin, like in Azure or you use the application gateway, which has a laugh and it has other features. But there there's capabilities on top of that that are like machine learning. Microsoft is designing all the behind the scenes looking for common threats across the world of things that are coming into their data centers and they'll trigger things based on, uh, what they're seeing. So that's my, my thing. So John, you're, you're going to add to that, um,
Speaker 3:on NSG. So we also use an SGS, uh, a network security groups inside the network to further partition it. And so between a front end and a backend network or front end network would have web servers that face customers, a backend network would have a database has or I as or other or S or even SAS. And that backend network would only talk to the front end vs a strict port and we would also limit it to that web server that was being able to talk to it. So we use a network security groups that way. Yeah. As that control a control point.
Speaker 1:Okay. I'm going to switch it up a little bit. Huh. I'm going to jump over to another section here. Okay. I'm going to, let's talk a little bit about, well, financial impact. There's, there's actually a few terms here that relate to each other, um, that are about financial impact. So, uh, and this is something that I look at, you know, every once in a while when we're doing, um, estimates for, uh, for new clients around their consumption. So pay as you go versus reserved instances. And also I'm going to add elasticity in there cause it kind of relates, right. So, um,
Speaker 4:yeah,
Speaker 1:talk to me about pay as you go first reserved instances and in conjunction with elasticity.
Speaker 2:Okay. Uh, so can you think of pay as you go as just the retail price then MSRP manufacturer's suggested retail pricing. So you're, you're, every public cloud vendor has their retail price lists, they've got pricing calculators. You can go in and plug in numbers and figure out what it's gonna cost to run a specific resource, um, with certain inputs. So that, uh, is the pay as you go price and
Speaker 1:we're talking about, so just to kinda frame this further, okay. Okay. Sorry. Actually. Yeah. So that there,
Speaker 4:right
Speaker 2:to take it to the next, I was more thinking
Speaker 1:of, um, the concept that you pay for only what you need. I think that's where you're going, right? Yeah. So it will also say like, what, what is you're paying for? So you're paying, so this, we're talking about like the annual costs, like the, or sorry, the monthly, first per minute
Speaker 2:per second costs. Right? So that's where our billing gets down to is they've got these systems that are actually monitoring and tracking your, your spend, um, right to the, uh, to the second in some cases. Um, so you, you pay as you go. So the beauty of pay as you go, as you're, you're not committed, you're not going out and buying a$50,000 server and depreciating that over five years. You're like, Hey, I want to do a test and I don't know how much, if I'm going to need this longterm. So you, uh, you just try it out. Okay, it didn't work. Okay. I don't need that, you know, 16 core system or whatever. Um, so that's the pay as you go piece.
Speaker 1:All right everybody, we had a little bit of a battery malfunction on a, on John's a headset, but we're, uh, we're back now. So John's just trying to, trying to figure out where he was.
Speaker 3:I know where I was, I was on capex versus OPEX. So previously people used to buy on premises servers and now the pay as you go term is really synonymous, synonymous with op ex. And that means that, um, you can rapidly experiment as Craig suggested, with turning on a server, doing a test and then destroying it. And the pay as you go means that your, your monthly cost is entirely variable. It's on what you need. So it could be linked to demand inbound or on what you consume instead of paying a set rate. And everyone loves that because it feels like you have control back. So since we're talking about terms Cappex and op-ex,
Speaker 2:okay, yeah sure. I'll put all expense. Yeah. So capital expense is something that you buy and it has value over time that depreciates or diminishes over time that value say a$100,000 today in five years it's down to zero. So you, you, you know there's different types of a pre depreciation but the easiest one is a straight line depreciation. So in a$500,000 investment over five years goes down to zero. After year one it's going to be$80,000 after year two at$60,000, so on and so forth. So it's a straight line just yeah, that's, that's a depreciation. But yeah, the accounting concept is that you are buying something upfront that you can't expense that full a hundred thousand dollars your as a company, it just doesn't make sense to do that. Um, there's rules around it. So, cause some companies could do that to get their costs down significantly or their, their tax liability down significantly. So there's TA accounting rules around how you recognize these capital investments. And so a cap cap backs costs is something that, um, you, you spend real dollars today but you actually are not expensing it all at once. You're expensing it over a period of time, whatever that useful life is of that asset. Whereas op ex
Speaker 3:hold on. So I just want to say one thing about cap ex. Um, cap ex forces you to buy all the capacity in one shot and you've got to buy it in the same increments or bigger or like, whereas op, uh, the pay as you go means, Oh, I'll just take it in incremental chunks. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Sorry. And you're, you're making an assumption of what that future need is going to be. So you're saying or you're using it or not. Yeah. And it's wasteful. It is wasteful. That's the problem. Yeah. So OPEX is the, if you want to say the exact opposite where it's, um, it's an operating expense. So as soon as you spend it, it's an operating expense on your books and it goes out. And the accounting litmus test for that is, is there anything useful left at the end of the, what you produced or what you spent money on. So if you, so in the cloud concept, this is what accountants struggle with all the time is um, we get it from our customers is, you know, we, how do we, how do we recognize this on our books? So it's now you, you pay for the consumption that you used in the last 30 days. So you get your monthly bill for Azure consumption. There's no useful life. Like you've now spent that money, there's nothing left that you could turn off all those resources, delete everything. I'll, all the storage, you've got nothing left. So that is an operating expense cause it was okay, we had to spend that money, it spent done, there's nothing lapped. Whereas capital, you've spent the money, you could turn off the server, put it in, it's got some useful ass value so you can put it in the closet or whatever and dust it off. And then pull it out later. It has some useful life. So that's very simplistic view of capex versus OPEX. Yup. Okay. I didn't think we had that on our list part.
Speaker 1:We didn't get into some accounting terms. No, I mean I just figured, yeah, just in case. I mean, you know, it's always funny when you do a terms or a, you know, a terminology discussion because you inevitably go down this rabbit hole because you're using[inaudible]
Speaker 2:terms to describe terms to describe terms and so on and so forth.
Speaker 3:I think also Craig, it would be good to go over what companies are doing today. Like they, they have to make that transition. I know you touched on it, but to go in, in more depth, they start with um, capital expenses that they've been doing for years on this. And then to switch over in particular, if they're a public company, it becomes more, it could be
Speaker 2:Carter. Yeah, that might be a whole podcast in itself. The idea in very quick, 32nd, um, maybe it'll be longer than 30 seconds, but so a company that's got capital expenses from three, five years ago, their expense or expensing over amortizing over a three to five years, those expenses are still hitting their books. If they decide to switch 100% to an OPEX model or a hundred to a hundred percent public cloud, they're kind of getting a double whammy. So they're getting that expense. The are the amortization, they're still expensing that and now they've got the cloud consumption expense on top of it. So it can be a big hit financially, you know, uh, or at least it looks that way on the books. The way that you advertise it, I can always have a hard time with that word and motorize the value of the, about you a recorded saying that a few times, but I have to, they have to blend the two together kind of. Yeah, that's the, you have to see that over time. So plan out your massive migration to the cloud over a period of time where the hit isn't so,
Speaker 3:and that's a factor. Some people don't take into consideration and it is actually a factor that inhibits them from going to the cloud. Right.
Speaker 2:But that's, this is, we're moving off of definitions. We're diving into concept. No. Okay. So we didn't finish talking about the, you had pay as you go and then we reserved and services. Next slide. So let's talk about reserve[inaudible]. So yeah, I'll let you start this time. So reserved instances, is that Microsoft and AWS[inaudible] cloud provider all, it's something different though, right? No, they call it AWS. Had it before.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Then they have to plan out capacity for their data center. So because the pay as you go model as out there and so successful when people want it, they'll offer you the consumer, the ability to reserve a SQL database. A I as instance, I'm not sure there's a few, two or three other things that you can do this on where you can prepay for one year or three years consumption up front and get upwards. I'm not gonna, I'm just gonna throw a number out there. 63% savings on a three year, that 63% savings. But the catch is, is that you've got to pay it all upfront. And what Microsoft does is reserve that capacity for you. So just to, for them having the, the ability to, to know that you're going to be there in pre-buy the space, reduces their model costs so much that they can offer the savings to you. So
Speaker 2:two weeks ago, Microsoft announced, uh, you, you can buy reserve instances, lock in for the one year, three year, but pay monthly. Yeah. So it's[inaudible] stream is that the savings are there savings aren't as no, they're exactly the same. They are exactly the same. Someone has to be making money on that.[inaudible] so what's happening now is Microsoft is doing it like there's no financing fees or whatever, but there's still a penalty if you decide to switch SKU's partway through. There's a 12% penalty point on the remainder. So, so you're, you are locking yourself in, but the business case speaks for itself, right? You're, you're saying, okay, we've got, uh, you know, however many dozens of VMs or whatever we're paying through the nose, that pay is, you go pricing the full retail price, but you can lock in those savings and Hey, you, you need to scale your environment and half of the servers are going to be a totally different skew. You cancel your RIS or reserved instance, a subscription pay a 12% penalty. I think it's on, it's prorated on the remainder of the term so it's not totally bad. And then you buy a new RI on the next skew and it's, the savings is still significant.
Speaker 1:So I have a few questions related to that. Oh my God. Okay. Actually don't know, I mean, I know what a skew is, but I know it. I actually don't know. Go, you're going to Google it right now. So while he's, we will in that. So I mean for one, that's awesome. Um, I'm, I mean, I guess it's because Microsoft probably realizes that they'd like the risk of people of them not getting the money at the end of the day is low. Right? Like know your contracts and locked in. Um, where does it stands out? Stock keeping unit. Okay. Um, wait. Okay, so stock as it like it's holding stock of, of inventory. Stock room. It's old school. That's warehouse. That's like a, I always say when I think of skew, I think of a UPC code right on you. But that's actually just like a skid of product. Um, okay. So
Speaker 3:he's asked me the other day what the, what the save icon in office means. Like they didn't know what Oh this is.
Speaker 1:Oh. And I was like, well that's how do you call it is you must have a floppy disc in your, in your place somewhere or you must have a couple school. I've got some, but my kids would know. Um, all right. So, okay, so reserved instances, I'm assuming the use case would heavily impact your ability to predict your monthly spend, right? Like, yeah, like if you, so if you're, if you're hosting a site that is going or maybe like a, you know, a SAS application where your um, you know, ongoing daily, weekly, monthly traffic could have a massive up and down, then your, how would, would you be able to take advantage of reserved instances if you're not able to accurately predict
Speaker 3:has, and that's on a website and I don't believe that's available for our eyes because it's elastic in a, in nature elasticities on so, so, so, so you don't want that on there. It's around certain compute and storage, uh, features that you want to provide the capacity. So if you think the old method was you gotta buy X amount of capacity and now you're saying, well, I know I need X minus one or X plus one, whatever way you want to look at at capacity. I just don't want to buy the extra stuff. I know for guaranteed for year one, two and three, I'm going to need that much capacity. You'll buy it. But a website is not in that bill. Meaning a website is going to be, you could have more campaigns, you could be selling, not selling, almost don't
Speaker 2:you want that? You don't want to lock yourself in from a website if it, especially if it's like a eCommerce site. Right, right. Cause the elasticity we want[inaudible]
Speaker 1:so can anybody guess what the next term is? I don't know where it was first. You think it might be last isn't being all so next term, uh, elasticity. AKA on demand compute. Okay. I think the listener can probably guess what it is based on when we talk.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it will stick with the website concept. So you've got a website, eCommerce website, um, black Friday's coming. Uh, you, you may, in the old way, you would, you would go and buy a whole bunch of servers that would be sitting there idle, not doing anything. They'd sit in the server room and then, but you have the maximum capacity that you need to achieve black Fridays demand. And then the day after black Friday sales are done, you're sitting idle again. Elasticy allows you to scale on demand as required. So you can do it automatically, ideally, or you can do it manually still, but elasticy just allows you to scale out or scale up. So suddenly you now have, Oh, I've got, that's different terms we've got to define now vertically and horizontally. Um, yes. But, uh, so scaling out, being, adding more of the same compute, uh, systems, um, virtual systems or scaling up is going to a larger instance size or as we said earlier, a skew of, uh, that model. So, uh, getting more compute for, to meet the demand essentially and memory. And
Speaker 3:you know why this is so hard and this should actually be a drinking game is that we've talked about terms and each time you introduce a new term, it should be a drink. And that's what makes this so complicated is because there's term upon term upon term upon term. Yeah. You've got to understand all these concepts in succession and we just throw it out. Like if you just throw out a scalability on top of that, which,
Speaker 1:well, so, so yeah, like you lost the city and also scalability will, the vagina hasn't addressed. Um, it's no drawn. You can talk. So yeah, the scale, I'll give you our, you asked the city, Oh, you had a great, I'll give you a good example of something that's kind of funny. So, um, funny and sad. So, uh, there's a term, um, that some people may recognize. It's called the Reddit talk of death. You want the Reddit hug of death is so, um, you know, Reddit, they call themselves a front page of the internet. It's a, you know, basically a, uh, uh, a site filled sub sites around certain topics. Right? So what happens quite often is somebody somehow, organically we'll, uh, basically puts a product or service that they're offering into a conversation and it will jump up in, in, people will notice it and it'll look out upvoted or whatever. So there was an example one time of, you know, this guy who had been ready to use it for a long time and him and his mom as a side business just for fun, built made soap. They made homemade soap and they would sell the soap online. They actually had their own website. It was hosted at a data center and they're selling their soap. And one day he's talking to somebody on Reddit and then going back and forth communicating and their their comments, get up voted or whatever. And then he puts a post and it got to the front page and all of a sudden the link to this, to his site is on the front page of Reddit and Reddit. And you know, a lot of users realize, Hey, this guy's a good guy. You know, he's a nice guy, he's got a business with his mom there so and so let's do this guy solid. Let's promote his business. We'll all order some soap off this guy. So the Reddit hug of death is that his site gets so much traffic and it's such a short span of tight. In short, short span of time, the site crashes, it goes down. So all those orders, all by popularity are not able to be facilitated. Therefore he doesn't take advantage of that massive hit. 24 hours later, the traffic's gone. His site backs is not up. But in the short, the short attention span on the internet, nobody cares anymore. So all that's all those supporters don't get fulfilled. I've
Speaker 3:seen firsthand where a server is sitting under a desk physically and um, a company. And in this particular instance, it was a tire company that had a tire sale every year and tire sales happen like in the winter. Uh, people buy their a winter tires and everything went through that. So the entire company's entire year is based on that server being running. And guess what server gets knocked out of commission done during the sale, during the sale. And it causes all kinds of problems because they're not just selling directly to consumers or selling to distributors and there's all kinds of things we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars a day in, lost them in the servers down. And another company down here makes these plaques that appear on Oprah all the time. And those plaques actually every time that Oprah, because Oprah loves them, every time she talks about them, they're, their site gets knocked out. Guess where that server sitting under someone's desk as well. So I hear, I've got a tire company, I've seen it and that, and this, the last testy is directly counter intuitive to what those people are doing, except you have to architect the system and the solution to be able to scale, leverage and to scale. Yeah. You can't just say go into Azure and say, Oh, make this scalable. It doesn't work that way. Right? Correct. Correct. Yeah. Um, what it will do is allow you to do at a, at a base level is to get into our next topic, which is, um, scalability. The vertical allows it to, to go up that way without the programming being great, meaning the programmings or that it's fully distributed or it can distribute work tasks one way or the other horizontally. So you've got vertically and horizontally and vertically just means that it's going to grab, it's just going to add more CPU or memory to it up or down. So if your compute, if you're, if you're using four processors and a 20 gigs of Ram, um, that's pretty beefy. Uh, that's at the high end. And when your consumption coming inbound is low, you can actually set rules that will drop it right down to two gigs of Ram and, and uh, you know, uh, two CPS or one CPU. And then conversely as Craig mentioned, the horizontal scaling your applications gotta be aware of it a little more. It might involve a load balance or as well where the application's going to say you're taking the first request server one, you're taking the second request server to stick with your people, go back to them and then you know, we'll bring on the third and fourth server when, when required, and again, so you can go from having one server to having 50 or back again, wherever that scalability, horizontal and vertical from me. And in the old, old on prem world scalability was you go buy another server or you add more Ram or you add more CPU if you could do that or more desk. Yup. But you're constrained by the physical, you are constrained by it for sure. Okay. There's unconstrained scalability in the cloud. Is infinite scalability infinite. That's the beauty of it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well guys, we've covered off quite a bit. Um,
Speaker 3:[inaudible]
Speaker 1:we can, we've got a few options here. We can go a little bit longer. Do you want it? John's looking out his, uh, his, his phone. You're looking at the time. I can't tell if he thinks we've gone too long or too low or too little. I think we have gone, we need a comment section that tells us if people like us, you like subscribe. Oh yeah, we got it. You owe it. You know, you gotta add that whole thing in like a Hey guys, you know, if you like your car content please like and subscribe and uh, you know, share our content with friends and family. Um, uh, but, uh, yeah, no, I think, I think we covered quite a bit today. Um, I mean there's a few others but there's no end to it, right? I mean, I don't, we could do a part three, but I don't think we will. I mean we'll end up just covering more as we do other topics. I think we got into our three. You want to do a part three? I think we do geo replicating availabilities. There's a lot in here around replicating. One piece of paper was also around, you know, availability zones all belong to that drinking game that I was suggesting. I won't drive the, I won't drive that day and we can do that. Um, we also, there's one other, a couple of others here like, uh, you know, D dos, a avers ADE wife CDN and we'll keep adding to this list. So yeah. Okay. Part three. It may not be
Speaker 3:in the near term, but we'll definitely keep it on there.
Speaker 1:And we thought we've hired some new staff. We should have probably had at least one of them in here today. I didn't think about it until it's too late, but, um, cause we had Theresa monitoring, although she heard Mike wasn't working no on part one, but we'll figure that out for part two. Yeah, we got there. I Leora was keen. She's been listening on to the, uh, the podcast lately. And who does she thinks the biggest character? Oh no, we haven't asked her. Oh, I think I'm probably the, probably you there. But, um, all right, well, uh, yeah, I, I don't really have a bonus question. I haven't[inaudible] to shoot for our audience. Just so you know, Mark May not sound himself today. He tore his Achilles heel a week ago. I'm actually on a significant amount of morphine right now. So the fact that I've been able to, you know, pull it all together and even participate in this podcast. I've been hanging on, just barely hanging on. But uh, no, I survived. Yes, no I did. Uh, unfortunately, uh, terabyte Kelly's song going to be, um, on some crutches for a while. But what can you do? Well, the crutches I think for another probably two months. Um, yeah. And then I know that full recovery, they said nine to 12 months, but you're not playing soccer, hockey or anything anymore? Well, I will never play soccer again because I don't, I didn't even like soccer to begin with. And that's what I do with soccer. I know. Well, I mean it's how it ha. It's what happened to be doing. So how are you going to stay in shape? Um, well I'm going to continue to go to the gym. I'm just going to have to do everything above the waist. So can you get one of those caddies? Have you seen those caddies? Uh, I've, I'm not sure if, if we're on it. Yeah. Yeah. The, the walking yeah. Thing or whatever. I don't know what I'm going to end up with. I gotta wait till I get this thing off and then have a chat with them. When I say this thing, I have like a old school plaster cast wrapped in bandages, but um, download, we'll see, uh, just gonna you know, go to the gym and 50 years ago would it have been dead rest for no. They would have taken her out back and shot him. Sorry buddy. You're done. Yeah, no, it's interesting cause nowadays they almost never do the surgery whereas two years ago, like only in the last year or two of, they decided that, uh, um, you don't need surgery for this. And I had to basically begged to get the surgery done. Right. But, uh, yeah, so I was able to get in and get some surgery. So anyways, a little off topic but uh, so thanks everyone for, for joining in listening to our podcast today. Uh, we will be back in a, I don't know, probably another probably two weeks. We're not going to let it go as long as we last time and I'm not sure what the topic is, but we will come up with a topic. I will come up with a bonus question and uh, we'll see you all then. Same bat time, same bat channel. Cheers. Thanks. Everybody's alright. One is the loneliest number.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And I'm glad you mentioned that credit because that's the difference. That's the new way to do it. Say you're in the cap ex spend and you're getting to be able to do experiments like this. Like you just said, okay, let's stop. We have to stop.
Speaker 2:You're some battery died. Is that one still alive? This is your, your number one, right? Yeah. This thing was started flashing and now I'm not getting any input so I will, I, yeah, I will edit this out, but I know, sorry. What can you do? You're not going to be on the podcast otherwise. So let me just go swap that out. Uh, those battery. Oh no, this battery. Sorry.
Speaker 4:Do you know why
Speaker 1:you swap it over? Maybe for Watson? That one right there.
Speaker 4:Oh, did I just change? Yes. You're right. No two format format that no, I did not[inaudible] format because it's ability to overwrite. What do you mean? Well, why not,
Speaker 2:um, batteries died halfway through the recording. No, they're not, but I've got batteries, but yeah, no, I bought Costco. I didn't know. No, this, my house runs on Costco. Not aware. My house runs on Costco.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, honestly we should have, I didn't think about it until we have a few minutes. And then we had, we had Theresa in the first one. I don't know why we didn't nobody layer in this one.
Speaker 4:I thought about it a few minutes in.
Speaker 1:Oh, well,
Speaker 4:alright, sorry about that. Do you remember where you were talking about
Speaker 2:and you and you, you just, um, go from where you said, I'm glad you brought that up.
Speaker 1:I can't remember what the next point was. Well, I think, well, we should just start off with, Hey, we had a battery malfunction here. Let's, uh, we're gonna hop right back in. It's less awkward to do it that way, but to pretend, um, pay as you go. What were we talking about on that? Alright, so let's, we'll hold on. Okay, I'm going, so we're gonna jump in right now. Oh, we're recording right off and cap pass. That's where you're going. Okay. X and cap X.