Season 1, Episode 1: Murder Phone, Tony Ciaglia The Serial Killer Whisperer, Life with a Traumatic Brain Injury

I am a tramatic Brain Injury Survivor. My family is my biggest support system so in this our first episode and with their help I'd like to tell you my fascinating story of life before and after the accident. We'll talk about how my brain injury dramatically changed my life. I will describe in detail my Near Death experience and the choice I was given and how the changes in my life eventually led me to corresponding with some of the most notorious killers in the world. This led to some of these relationships to be documented in the best-selling book “The Serial Killer Whisperer.” this in time led to Murder Phone The Podcast.
This will be one of the best true crime podcasts you will ever hear; detailing direct relationships with the real killers creating raw scary stories that will have you clamoring for more. 

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Transcript

*Note: this is an AI-generated transcript

Al Ciaglia (00:00:00):

Warning because of the extreme content in this podcast, it is not appropriate for children. It contains depictions of violence, language and disturbing subject matter. It is recommended strictly for adult audiences, parental guidance suggested

Joey Ciaglia (00:00:21):

My name is Joey Ciaglia and I am so excited to welcome you into our family. There are so many stories being told about serial killers, but no one has created direct relationships. Like you will hear on murder phone. My incredible brother, Tony Ciaglia a traumatic brain injury survivor and the subject of the best selling book, the serial killer whisperer will be your host along with his co-host and our amazing father Al Ciaglia. They will share over 15 years of handwritten letters, phone calls and prison visits that will bring you as close to a serial killer as you'd ever want to be. This is a story that is so wrong. So scary with so many twists and turns. It will keep you clamoring for more through his own words and letters sent directly to Tony. You will hear the unfiltered shocking story of David gore and his cousin, Fred Waterfield, who became known as the killing cousins. This is murder phone.

Tony Ciaglia (00:01:25):

Wow, Joe. Thanks for that amazing introduction. I couldn't have done it better myself. Welcome to the very first episode of murder phone. I'm your host, Tony Ciaglia the serial killer whisperer, and I'm happy to be here with my co-host dad and partner in crime Al Ciaglia.

Al Ciaglia (00:01:48):

Thank you, Tony. And thank you Joey for that great intro. Today's show is truly a family affair and it's great to have my wife, Chris and my son, Joey, with us to help tell your amazing story. Hi everybody. How's it going, everyone.

Tony Ciaglia (00:02:06):

I am a traumatic brain injury survivor. I'm so pleased to have my family here today. They are my biggest support system and have helped me get to where I am today without them. Sadly enough, I really believe I would either be in a hospital in jail or dead. So today with their help, I'd like to tell you my fascinating story of life before and after the accident and how my brain injury dramatically changed me and eventually led me to corresponding was some of the most notorious killers in the world. My early years, they were amazing. I had a happy childhood filled with great memories. We lived in Plano, Texas, and I had so many close friends, my little brother, Joey and I were inseparable. Growing up,

Al Ciaglia (00:03:12):

Tony was a great kid, good student. And he loved sports. He played football, basketball and baseball. I coached both Tony and his brother's football teams. And our house was like grand central station because we always had the boys' friends over. Chris. What do you remember about those days?

Chris Ciaglia (00:03:33):

Tony was so active. It seemed like nonstop carpooling back then he was into as many, so many activities. If it wasn't sports, it was drama or improv party sleepovers, you name it. And he was involved. We had so many friends, those were such great times and such great memories.

Al Ciaglia (00:03:57):

Yeah, I really did have some great memories from that as well. Uh, I think when it came to sports, Tony definitely had the, uh, the sports ability in the house. Um, but we used to play side yard football games. We had a huge grass area over on the side. We used to have crazy games of home run Derby in the cul-de-sac. You remember that Tony

Tony Ciaglia (00:04:17):

<laugh>?

Al Ciaglia (00:04:17):

We had

Tony Ciaglia (00:04:18):

Legendary.

Al Ciaglia (00:04:19):

We used to have roller hockey games up at the elementary school. Uh, I pretty much dominated those, but we had all kinds of sports activities going on. Uh, we were very much into movies. We were constantly having sleepovers movie nights, um, parties with the friends. And we, we grew up with a, uh, a great neighborhood full of kids. And it seemed like every night kids were at different kids' house in the neighborhood. And nobody had to worry about where anybody was. And it was just a really fantastic time in our life

Tony Ciaglia (00:04:52):

Shenanigans <laugh>

Al Ciaglia (00:04:56):

And then life changed. Tony, can you take us through what happened that day?

Tony Ciaglia (00:05:05):

I, I sure can. And every time I tell this story, it's, it's been a while ago. You would think it would get easier, but it doesn't. I was in between my freshman and sophomore year in high school. Um, I just finished a great basketball camp. Um, I was averaging 20 points a game. I was going to be the starting point guard on the school team for the sophomore year, but, and it's a big butt. I went off to summer camp that summer and I was as excited as I had ever been. I was going to be a counselor in training or a C I T at camp. And I was on top of the world, man. I was on a roll. I was, I was kicking all the counselors butts in basketball and <affirmative>, excuse me. I met a girl at camp. My world couldn't have been any better. We had the camp Olympics that summer and I won the gold medal. In every event I entered, it was like seven. It was around 4:00 PM on July 23rd, 1992, when my whole world changed forever, me and four boys were at the lake doing what boys do, playing around splashing, screwing around acting like a fool. I was about chest high in the water. When a boy came in going 45 miles an hour

Tony Ciaglia (00:07:12):

On the jet ski, he was trying to show off and shoot away over my head, but he miscalculated related the distance and he fishtailed and slammed into the back of my skull, hitting me right above my right ear and cutting me open across the back of my head. The people on the scene later said they could see my brain. Fortunately, a park ranger who was passing by, gave me oxygen right away. And he said, this boy's golden light is fading. I need to call for a care flight helicopter. I died in flight three times and slipped into a deep coma. I'll let my family describe the rest of that day because they obviously can remember it better than me.

Al Ciaglia (00:08:21):

You know, when that phone rang, it was the call that no parent ever wants to get the boys were at camp. So I was at my office late afternoon and actually Chris had joined me there. We were gonna go out and have dinner that evening. And, uh, the phone rang and it was somebody from the camp calling and they didn't really tell me much. They said that one of my boys had been in an accident, a boating accident, and, uh, that he was injured. And I started to ask questions. I wanted to know which boy I wanted to know, you know, how seriously was he hurt? And all they could tell me was that he had been care flighted to Harris Methodist hospital in Fort worth. So at that point, when I heard care flight, it was like everything stopped.

Al Ciaglia (00:09:20):

I called the hospital to try and find out some information and all they said that my son was there and that I should get there as quickly as possible. Chris and I, at this point were in a, in a frenzy. I mean, we, we didn't know what to do. Uh, we had to drive from downtown Dallas to downtown Fort worth in the middle of rush hour. And, uh, we didn't know if our son was alive or dead. We didn't even know at that point, which sun it was. And, uh, it was, it was the worst ride we'd ever taken crying. I was R riding on the, the side lane, hoping a police officer had come by so he could give us an escort. But, uh, it, it was really torture. And Chris, what do you remember about that day?

Chris Ciaglia (00:10:10):

It was just awful. I remember when we got to Harris Methodist hospital, we were shown to a private room and they asked if we wanted a priest or chaplain. And at that point I got like really scared, cuz I knew this was something very serious. One thing that always sticks in my mind is seeing a box of Kleenex on the table. And at first I was thinking, well, why is that there? And then it just, it hit me like a ton of bricks that we didn't know what we were looking at. I guess it, uh, just really just started in just how serious Tony's injury was. We couldn't stop crying and we towed them all. We wanted to see our son right now. They explained that he was being examined and tested and we could see him as soon as he came down,

Al Ciaglia (00:11:02):

We were finally taken to see Tony and he didn't look like he should be there. He was tanned from camp he's athletic. And other than the gash on the head, I kept thinking he's okay. He's all right. And I kept waiting for him to sit up on the table and tell us a joke, just waiting for the old Tony. Then the trauma nurse came in and she explained that Tony had suffered a serious closed head injury and would need surgery to insert it, intercranial brain pressure monitoring device. What this device would do is, is monitor the swelling of his brain. She explained to us how serious the accident was. And, uh, it, I guess to the, the way to, to sum this up is we had no idea the, that that laid ahead of us for both Tony and the family, because what did we know about brain injury?

Al Ciaglia (00:12:01):

Yeah, my, my memory from that day was, was pretty surreal. I remember seeing my brother, uh, at approximately noon on that day because he was a counselor in training at my camp, which was about seven miles down the lake from the camp that he was at. So I was at a camp for the younger kids and he was at a camp for the older kids and he had left it about noon. And I still remember it was crazy. I was watching him walk up a hill and then as he got to the top of hill and top of the hill and he walked over the top and down on the other side, that's when I lost lost vision, but I knew something was wrong that day, about four 30, when the accident happened, I had this really sick feeling in my stomach and I can't really describe the feeling because I had never felt it before.

Al Ciaglia (00:12:50):

I just knew something was wrong. And I didn't necessarily know that it was Tony that was wrong. So it was like a movie scene that night I missed the showers. Uh, we had these group showers and I remember that I ran up to the shower house. I was the last kid there and I was alone, which is very rare. We had been going to this camp for years. Never are you in the showers by yourself? But I had told the counselor that, that I missed the time and I needed to, to run up there. And all of a sudden the camp director walked in and he said that my dad had called and he needed to talk to me right away. And right then and there, I, I knew something serious had happened. So I asked the camp director, if I could go back to my tent and get dressed and come down to the office and he actually told me, no, you need to come right away.

Al Ciaglia (00:13:43):

So I walked across the camp, the campgrounds and my towel and flip flops. And I, and I went to the office and he had given me a little blurb about it on our way over and had mentioned that Tony was flown by a care flight helicopter. And that's, that's really when I knew that it was bad. So I went back to my 10th that night, not really knowing the condition that Tony was in because my parents didn't want to give me much information. We only had two days left at camp. So what they wanted me to do was stay for the duration. And then let me know that my aunt Carol would pick me up at the bus station as soon as I got back. And then she could take me to the hospital and meet up. So the very next morning I went right back to the camp director's office and I demanded that he or somebody from the camp drive me immediately to Harris Methodist hospital in Fort worth. The next morning we met with the, uh, neurosurgeon Dr. Cravins that had, uh, performed the surgery on Tony. And he said that the first 72 hours would be the most critical. Uh, he, he really couldn't give us a whole lot of information cuz they really don't know only the fact that Tony's in a coma and 72 hours would pretty much tell us whether he was gonna make it or not

Chris Ciaglia (00:15:11):

Little did we know we were allowed into ICU as much as we wanted, which I learned later, it was a bad sign. We found out that, um, you know, it's not good when they let you in all the time because they think that it's probably gonna be not a good result. Um, and when I went in to see him, Tony responded, he was in a coma, but my voice, somehow he must have heard my voice and it caused a reaction. All of his, uh, his sprain, uh, monitor would go up his blood pressure. So I didn't talk anymore. After that, I just held his hand.

Al Ciaglia (00:15:49):

And then I remember we were taken into this room and UN unlucky for us. The neurosurgeon, Dr. Cravens was a great guy. He had a great bedside manner. Uh, he was the type of doctor that could really explain a situation to you, but that didn't happen for us. Unfortunately, that day we met his partner and this guy's name was Dr. Wheeler. And I nicknamed him Dr. Death because he took us into a room and basically was educating on, uh, educating us on what brain injury is all about. And at the time they really knew very little. And the analogy that he had gave us was for the first 72 hours of an accident, as critical as Tony's the best way he could describe Tony to us was that he was on a Bob sled, going downhill at a steep incline at over a hundred miles an hour. And at any time that Bob sled could drift off that, that mountaintop and he would be gone. And that's really the, the first description that we got from the doctors to explain the condition that, that Tony was in.

Chris Ciaglia (00:16:58):

We were assigned a male nurse and he, uh, took us into a room and he showed us a movie about a high functioning brain injured child. And it was so scary. Uh, if she was high functioning, uh, it was not good at all. We were very worried after we saw that

Al Ciaglia (00:17:23):

I kept pushing the doctor to see how they felt, whether Tony, when, when they felt he was gonna wake up, is he gonna wake up? And they just can't give you any answers. Uh, the way he summed it up is he said that there was patients that had less severe injuries than Tony that never woke up. And there was patients that had really, really severe injuries, worse than Tony's that did wake up. That was about all they could tell us. When I finally got to go in and see him for the first time, I didn't really know what to expect. And I like my dad mentioned earlier, he didn't look like he should be there. He was tanned. The only thing that was wrong is his head was shaved, which I knew he wouldn't have liked because he loved his hair. <laugh> <laugh> Tony ended up spending 17 days on complete life support.

Al Ciaglia (00:18:13):

He had machines and tubes sticking out of him from every possible crevice of his body. And he remained in a deep, deep coma for over 30 days. Coma is a difficult thing to understand unless you actually get to witness it and see it, cuz it's not like Hollywood. It's not the, it's not like the movies where all of a sudden one day somebody just wakes up out of the blue there's there's different stages to a coma. And each stage that they progress through is a natural progression to them becoming coherent and actually recognizing people, maybe they say their first word, or maybe they start to see things that they were familiar with before the accident happened. And with Tony, it was almost like he was fighting to come out because the nurses and doctors would go in there and yet he was asleep and not showing any signs of movement.

Al Ciaglia (00:19:08):

But if he got stuck with a needle to do blood work, he would either cry out or show some type of reaction. And it was, it was a really difficult, uh, thing to watch and understand, especially being that I was only 12 years old. So my parents had sent me back to Plano where we lived because they wanted me to sort of integrate back into my normal life and not necessarily be living out there by the hospital. And I ended up staying with some neighbors that lived across the street and they made sure I got to school. But I think one thing that's pretty interesting is, um, or significant at that time is I entered a golf tournament when I was 12 years old and I actually had placed very high in the golf tournament. And it was a, it was a pretty emotional moment because I won a trophy at 12 years old. And I had dedicated this wind to my brother and had explained to people that, you know, he was laying in a hospital bed and I was out there competing in this tournament for him. And, uh, it, that was a pretty cool moment.

Chris Ciaglia (00:20:09):

The, uh, next day, following the golf tournament, we, the doctor had told us that we needed to get some sleep, cuz we had been sleeping in the, uh, waiting room. And um, we went back into the hospital and they told us that, uh, we went to his room thinking he was gonna be there and he wasn't there. They had moved him without telling us at we, we were so fearful that he had died during the night.

Al Ciaglia (00:20:40):

So then, and this is a timing issue because we're talking, you know, 17 days later he had been laying in this coma and uh, we had an apartment, but most of the time we spent at the hospital, but one particular day we started to drive to the hospital and there was a double rainbow. I'll never forget it. It went over the hospital and didn't think much of it then. I mean, it was beautiful. But Chris and I walked in, went into the room where Tony was in his coma and tire surprise. He had come out of it to the point that he looked at us and actually said the greatest words I think I've ever heard. And I'm sure I can vouch for my wife. <laugh> he said, hi mom, hi dad. And it was so emotional it's I can't even describe it. It was just such a great feeling that he knew us because you have to understand when a person comes out of the coma, they, we, you don't know what they're gonna know or who they're gonna know. So this was our very first big step.

Chris Ciaglia (00:22:00):

He, the fact that he knew us and recognized that Joey had bought a hat for Tony when he was in the, uh, coma. And he, we gave it to him because we had no idea. Would he know to put this on his head or would he know what it is? And uh, he recognized it and put it right on his head. And then he said, I'm so proud.

Tony Ciaglia (00:22:28):

<laugh> I, um, I don't, I don't remember that happening. I don't, I don't remember getting into the water. None of that. I of course, um, well, after, after all of that, I was transferred to a Dallas rehabilitation Institute where I was challenged with what I thought was going to be the hardest thing I would ever be faced with. And physically I had to relearn how to walk, talk, read, spell, swallow, eat. I was paralyzed on the right side of my body. And I know that sounds devastating and sure it was devastating, but that wasn't the hard part. I was an inpatient in an outpatient for eight months at Dallas rehabilitation Institute. Um, I remember the doctors and the nurses always telling my parents that I was like two or three steps ahead of what I should have been doing at that time. And it was because I was an athlete. I was strong. I was able to do the physical rehab. Um, I remember the doctors saying that I re I wrote the cliff notes for traumatic brain injury, survival.

Al Ciaglia (00:24:32):

Since you beat me in sports all the time when we were growing up, I kind of took advantage of, of you at this point too. I remember we used to race the wheelchairs around in Dallas rehab and I, I definitely stuck it to you on those

Tony Ciaglia (00:24:45):

<laugh> I, I remember bits and pieces of, of that.

Al Ciaglia (00:24:50):

I figured that was my shot.

Tony Ciaglia (00:24:52):

<laugh>.

Al Ciaglia (00:24:55):

So back then, we're talking about 1992, still 92, right. And there was very little known about traumatic brain injury, as you can imagine. So they said try to get Tony back into his normal routine as quickly as possible. So it was our, you know, driving ambition to get him out of this place and to get him back home and get him back into school with his friends. So he can, you know, continue being the normal teenager that he was. And uh, we thought, you know, everything would be fine.

Tony Ciaglia (00:25:40):

Yeah.

Al Ciaglia (00:25:41):

Well, you know what? It was a big mistake

Tony Ciaglia (00:25:45):

And fine could not be so far away from what it really was like. Sure. First co first week I went back to school, there were signs all over the school. Welcome back Italian stallion. Cause that was my nickname. Eat your heart out Rocky.

Al Ciaglia (00:26:18):

<laugh> why did they call you that? I'm just kidding. You don't

Tony Ciaglia (00:26:22):

Have to answer. I don't have to answer that. <laugh> and I just, you know, I, the signs were there. I got tons of cards. Welcome back, Tony. Welcome back. We prayed for you. We're so happy. You're better, but I was far from better. And that ended quickly the welcome back. I, um, after six weeks of extensive bullying being called a retard spit on yes, yes. I was spit on by people. I grew up with people that spent the night at my house, a hundred times people, I played sports with people. I knew since I was a little boy, I kept it from my family. And on the seventh week, I couldn't take it anymore. You know, I have a reoccurring nightmare that I'd like to share with you. Why can't it be of like the Hawaiian bikini team? It's not the Hawaiian Tropic bikini team. Thank you. The Hawaiian Tropic bikini team. It's not though. It's a reoccurring nightmare and it's always the same. It haunts me. It's me as an adult, as an adult, walking through my high school hallway and I'm watching me as a 15 year old, getting made fun of called a retard, spin on and completely ignored by all the people I grew up with and called friends.

Tony Ciaglia (00:28:59):

My best friend is standing there watching me from outside the circle of the bullying and the teasing. He looks confused not knowing what to do because I have always been his best friend at that present moment. I'm looking at him for some, for some support, for some understanding <affirmative> then the circle breaks. And there is a moment where my best friend has to make a decision. I'm standing a few feet from him, crying, asking for his help. The other boys are yelling at him. Come on, man, come on. He's a fucking retard. Are you coming or not? My best friend just looks at me. He shakes his head, shrugs his shoulders as he walks off following the guys little did I know that this was a good bye forever ever.

Al Ciaglia (00:30:20):

When the book was written about Tony's life, his best friend at the time, Billy was actually interviewed for the book. This was really the first time that they had spoken since he was in high school. And it really just reaffirmed what Tony had already known the whole time. This is actually how Billy described what happened. And I quote at first, everybody at school was really excited to have Tony back. And it was a really big deal. Billy said the whole school welcomed him home. But as soon as the novelty wore off, everyone forgot that he needed special attention. None of us who were his best friends really knew how to handle it. Like all high schools Shepton had its social cliques. Everyone wanted to be cool. And when you had a friend that was off somebody like Tony, while he wasn't so cool and you didn't want to be seen with him or have him around Billy recalled.

Al Ciaglia (00:31:16):

And I remember Billy's voice was breaking with AMO emotion as he had continued in, in talking in his interview. And he said, I have a sister who is mentally handicapped, and I've always been aware of how cruel kids can be, but I was going through puberty at the time. And I was really trying to find my own identity. In ninth grade, I was scared of being rejected. What happened was that Tony went from being one of the most popular kids to becoming someone that nobody wanted to be associated with. Kids are cruel. And the mentality was, if you can't keep up with us too bad for you. And at the time, Tony simply just couldn't keep up. After his accident, he sort of just disappeared as a person. One night, I awoke to find Tony sitting at the kitchen table crying. He started to tell me what was happening at school and how he wasn't ever going back there. I had no idea. None of us had any idea what was happening. Then he looked at me and he said, there's something that I need to tell you. I'm gonna let Tony in his own words, tell you what he told me that night.

Tony Ciaglia (00:32:32):

I, I told my dad that when I died three times on the care flight helicopter, I had an out of body experience. I, I, I started going drifting outta my body to that, to that beautiful white light. Everybody's heard about I headed towards that light and I could look down and I could see myself. I, I could see myself and all the, the nurses on the, the helicopter trying to bring me back. And when I got to that, that white light, it, it split. And there was a wall to my left of white light going forever. As far as the eye could see, and to the right, that white light was a wall going. As far as the eye could see. And I was, I was drifting through a tunnel. I remember as I drifted through this tunnel that I felt, I felt good. There was no blood. There was no pain. I felt warm. I felt, I felt like I belonged here. I remember looking to my left and seeing my, my mom, my dad, my brother and me at the kitchen table, eating spaghetti dinner. And then I remember looking to my right, seeing myself

Tony Ciaglia (00:34:41):

As the starting point guard, playing basketball. I continued to drift. Then I came to a stop. And before me was a huge wall of pulsating energy. It was so powerful yet. So beautiful. Jesus Christ stepped out of this wall. He walked before me and I can tell you this right now. Jesus is just like, you think he looks like he was in a robe. He had a nice tan, he had a beard shoulder, brown hair. He put his hand on my shoulder and he said, Anthony Ciaglia have no fear. You are with your father in heaven. And then he went on to give me a choice. He told me, gosh, this happened a long time ago, but it's like so clear. Like it happened yesterday. He said, you can stay here with me. And one day you will meet up with your loved ones and live for eternity and my heavenly kingdom. Or I will put you down in your lifeless body. And then he spread his arms out far left far. Right? And he goes, if you choose to go back, I will take from you everything that all of my children take for granted every single day.

Tony Ciaglia (00:36:55):

And I looked at Jesus and I chose to come home because I couldn't bear to think or watch the surgeon or the doctor come out into the waiting room and tell my mom and dad and my brother that they had done everything they could for me. I am with God now, or Tony is with God. I couldn't bear that. So I came back, but before I came back, the last thing Jesus said to me, he said, Anthony, I want you to love and love. And when you think you can't love anymore, continue to love. And that's what happened.

Al Ciaglia (00:37:52):

It was a very profound moment that we shared. We were both crying. And I told him that we all loved him and would never desert him. We were so thankful that he made the choice that he did. And I reaffirmed what I had told him when he was in his coma. I said to him over and over again, just wake up and we'll be with you the rest of the way, no matter what happens.

Tony Ciaglia (00:38:19):

And from there I dropped out school and began homeschooling. No one came by, no one called. I lived a solitary lonely life. And I'm not gonna say that, cuz I'd be lying. If I said that I have forgiven everybody that treated me less than an animal when I needed the most, because I don't forgive them. And yes, there is animosity. They've had their chance to call me, to look me up on social media. My book was the best seller. They know where to find me. And none of them, not one of them has found me. I, I, you know, I'm sorry. Give me a second. I learned that that lonely is not a feeling when you're alone. Lonely is a feeling when no one cares everything. As I knew it before the accident stopped. And it would never be the same again, no matter how much I prayed, how much I wished it would never be the same. Again, at

Al Ciaglia (00:39:31):

This point, Tony had a complete breakdown. He actually was talking about suicide. His brother told us that he was very worried about Tony, the things that he was saying when we weren't around. So we went to the doctor and he said, he gave us two choices. He said that either Tony was gonna have to go into a hospital or that somebody from our family was gonna have to be with him 24 hours a day. And you know, it was an easy choice. He had spent so much time in hospitals. We didn't wanna put him back in a hospital. So he wound up, he actually slept at the foot of our bed for over a year. And uh, went to work with me, went to work with my wife. Uh, Joey grew up overnight and he was actually there for Tony, spent time with him, brought his friends around him. So for that year, year and a half, I mean, it was like nonstop. We were with him and just make sure that he got through it.

Tony Ciaglia (00:40:36):

Being alone was so difficult. What helped me get through it was my family, my brother and Joey brought me in with his, his friends. So that was great. I found out that I had a pretty good voice <laugh> during this time. And you see the story goes, my parents and my brother, they played Elvis Pressley music for me the entire time I was in a coma. See I an Elvis freak. I was only 15 years old. We had been to Graceland though before. And I mean, I admired what Elvis did to women and just how amazing, you know, he was. And my parents playing that Elvis tape, I must have subconsciously heard it because when I woke up out of the coma and I started to learn how to speak again, I asked them, and this is back when yes, cassette tapes were around for you, younger people. You don't know what those are. <laugh> asked my parents for the Elvis Presley tape that they played for me when I was in the coma. And I became a really big fan. Um, what dad? Well,

Al Ciaglia (00:42:30):

What I was gonna say is music nowadays is very important in rehabbing brain injury. Now back then, like I said, there was very little known. So actually Tony was rehabbing himself with the Elvis music, uh, without us really knowing that, that it was helping him. We thought it was just filling up the time. And yeah, we did play the tape for him when he was in his coma. And uh, like I say, he was 15 years old. He didn't pay a whole lot of attention to Elvis. But when he was at home alone, he really started to work on it. He watched Elvis movies, he listened to Elvis music and we bought him a little karaoke machine and he began singing. And uh, from that point he entered a contest in, uh, Dallas and he actually won the contest. Singing don't be cruel. Uh, by winning that contest, he was automatically registered in the, uh, Memphis, uh, images of Elvis competition. And, uh, we went there and he actually finished in the top 10. We were there for two years and he finished in the top 10. Elvis's competing from all over the world. I was, that was an experience in itself. It was an experience, wasn't it? Yeah. 350 guys in a room that think their Elvis was one of the most beautiful things I've ever

Tony Ciaglia (00:43:49):

Seen. Stop it, stop it. I never thought I was Elvis. <laugh>

Al Ciaglia (00:43:53):

Not necessarily you, but you know the ones I'm talking

Tony Ciaglia (00:43:55):

About. I was a tribute artist, my man, but

Al Ciaglia (00:43:57):

Let's let me interject there for a second. Let's put him on the spot for a minute. All right. Let's put, I know it's cold, but why don't you give us a little, give us a little Elvis action. Oh, little of me tender if you could.

Tony Ciaglia (00:44:08):

Okay. Gee, I didn't think you would ask. <laugh> love me tender. Love me. Sweet. Never. Let me go for mine, darling. I love you. And I hear always

Al Ciaglia (00:44:37):

Nice job.

Tony Ciaglia (00:44:38):

Nice. Thank you very much. Very

Al Ciaglia (00:44:39):

Good. Very good.

Tony Ciaglia (00:44:41):

Thank you very much. You're a beautiful audience. <laugh>

Al Ciaglia (00:44:47):

You know, we kind of make light of it right now. It's a little easier to talk about, but back then psychological support was, was really big, very helpful. Uh, actually Tony started going to a psychologist three times a week. Uh, his name was drew Beano. He became a family friend. The man was awesome and he helped us. Uh, I can't even begin to tell you how much he helped us. Uh, if I could compare drew to somebody. Yes, it would be the character Sean played by Robin Williams in Goodwill hunting.

Tony Ciaglia (00:45:22):

Oh my gosh.

Al Ciaglia (00:45:23):

Yes, absolutely. I never thought of that. I never thought of that a hundred percent. I was watching that movie, uh, last week, one of my favorite movies, by the way. And when I was watching Robin Williams talk, I was thinking this is drew you're right?

Tony Ciaglia (00:45:36):

Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Al Ciaglia (00:45:38):

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you're definitely not Matt Damon, but drew <laugh>. So anyway, Tony,

Tony Ciaglia (00:45:44):

So I'm better looking Tony

Al Ciaglia (00:45:45):

Tell him, uh, I, I wish it was just, uh, psychological, but tell him a little bit about the medicine that you take. It helps that you need to take

Tony Ciaglia (00:45:59):

Well there's um, I take anti-depressant anti-seizure mood, stabilizer, DEPA code, lithium, Cymbalta, Seroquel, Indro. And in these meds, they're tough. They're tough on my body and they affect the liver, but I don't drink at all and I never have. So my, um, and every like three months, I get my blood taken to check the liver and stuff, and I've never had a problem with it. So that's good. But these meds over 22 years of, uh, taking them they've, uh,

Al Ciaglia (00:46:49):

27,

Tony Ciaglia (00:46:50):

Oh my gosh, 27 killed my thyroid and caused me to be a type two diabetic. But until there is an alternative, they allow me to live a normal, a somewhat normal life music, creative writing. It's become a huge part of my recovery. Creative writing has always been a passion and it's served me well during the lonely days, after my accident, such a tough time for me, I was, you know, trying to come to terms with the fact that I suffered a brain injury and nothing would ever be the same again. That's, that's the hardest part to accept the old Tony is dead. I changed 100% after my accident. And that's the hardest part to accept is that that's gone. That will never come back or it will never be the same again. I,

Speaker 5 (00:48:27):

I don't

Tony Ciaglia (00:48:27):

Think people really understood what you were going through. Huh? You're right. You're right. Because I, look, I look like you, Joe, and I'm better looking than you, but <laugh>, but I, but I look like you, Joe, I look like you, dad. He's lucky. There's a table between us. <laugh> I mean, I talk fine. I sing, I can dance kind of, um, you know, do we have a video clip of the dancing? Could we put that? <laugh> it's the fact that I look just like every Tom, Dick and Harry out there, I look fine. I'm not in a wheelchair. So people judge a book by its cover, unfortunately, and the cover looks good, but the body of the book, well, it's got its problems. I was tired of crying, tired of yelling, tired of being tired of being sad, tired of pretending, putting on a mask, smiling and telling people everything's okay. Everything's okay when it's not fucking okay. It's not okay at all. Tired of needing help, tired of telling my friends. Could you say that again for me? What was that tired of being different?

Chris Ciaglia (00:50:07):

As you can imagine, this time was very difficult. It was so hard to watch your son being hurt all the time. And um, sometimes he would just become overwhelmed and would just take off and run. Cuz he loved to run so much from his prior life. Joey and I many a time would, uh, chase him down to hug him. That's all I needed is a hug and then he would calm down. And uh, it was just the parents that I had known for years. They, they avoided me. They never looked at me and it was very hard. There were a few that would, um, stop and hug me that my neighbors were fantastic though. They sent food, their kids came over and that was one of the nice things about that time.

Al Ciaglia (00:51:05):

You know, at this time it was, was very difficult because of the rage control. And I think anybody listening to this, uh, that's had any kind of experience with somebody that has a brain injury or some type of mental illness that they can't control that rage. That was the scariest thing. You know, at 12, 13 years old, I'm looking after a 15, 16 year old brother, not knowing if we were sitting in a restaurant, did he think that the, the people next to him were looking at him funny and next thing you know, he's picking up the table and he's throwing it at these people or he's throwing it across the room or he is punching through a window and running out to the car, getting in the car and speeding away. And next thing you know, we find him he's in Oklahoma, you know, across state lines and has been driving for hours.

Al Ciaglia (00:51:55):

So that was very difficult. The other part of it was his decision making skills were massively damaged and it just seemed like he was always making the wrong decision. And it was very scary because every time he would leave the house, we really never knew if he was gonna come back or was he gonna come back in one piece? Was he gonna get in a fight? And the head trauma would cause him to be, uh, in another situation that he had just come out of. And at that time, when you're 12 or 13 or 15 years old kids are extremely cruel. And I can't necessarily blame the kids because I don't think that they truly understand. I know I didn't understand, but I had to understand because it was a situation that I was just thrown into and there's countless times I won't go into all of 'em, but there's countless times where we would be out and at the ice skating rink, just having a good time.

Al Ciaglia (00:52:53):

And Tony was a little different. He liked to dance and he didn't really give a shit who was watching him. Uh, I used to always say his, give a shit meter. Was it a zero? Because he just didn't care. And I think people take that the wrong way sometimes. And, and they, it's easy to make fun of somebody like that. And Tony is a very, uh, alert person and he would notice these things and I would try to play it off or diffuse the situation. And usually by the time I could get there, it was too late and a fight would break out. And what can I say, kids are cruel. So one of the stories I wanted to share with you guys too, is, is an incredible story. It's almost like a movie. My dad being a long time hockey fan, his whole life, uh, was so excited, so excited that the Minnesota north stars were traded to Dallas.

Al Ciaglia (00:53:48):

So he says to Tony and I we're going down to reunion arena. We're gonna get season tickets. And at that time we got to pick out the seats. And so what we did is we picked out the front row behind the visitors penalty box, which was great, but it was probably pretty bad at the same time. And those are stories for another time, like getting thrown out of a game on national television. When mom was at home watching and shutoffs, she, she calls dad and says, you're a real asshole. You know that like the neighbor just called me and you and your sons are getting thrown out of a hockey game on ESPN. What is wrong with you? But no, seriously. So the first game we get to the game, we're there early, uh, having some popcorn, grabbed a couple hot dogs and Tony and I are sitting on the railing just in front of the, the visitor's penalty box with our back against the glass and warmups are going on fast forward.

Al Ciaglia (00:54:43):

The game's about to start and we were seats 5, 6, 7, 8, so one and two are on the aisle. And then there's three and four. There's one guy sitting in seat number four, but there's nobody sitting in seat number three. So Tony is sitting next to him. He strikes up a conversation and he's just asking him questions about what do you do for a living? And it, it turned out that the guy was a, a military helicopter pilot. And Tony asked him where, uh, why is C3 empty? And he said, that's my wife's. But unfortunately she had to work and she couldn't get off. So Tony said, what does she do? And he, and he said, well, she's a, she's an anesthesiologist out at a hospital in Fort worth. And Tony said, what hospital? And he proceeded to tell him Harris Methodist hospital, which is the hospital that Tony was in after his accident.

Al Ciaglia (00:55:34):

So Tony starts telling him a little bit about his injury and he told him the staff in that hospital saved my life and continued to tell him the story about the accident, how they care, flighted him, landed at Harris Methodist and, and all the procedures and everything that he went through. Well, this gentleman in between the first and second period, he went up and he called his wife who was at work. And he says to his wife, he says, you remember the kid that you were telling me about a couple years ago, that was in the jet ski accident. And she said, yeah. And he said, I think he's sitting next to me at the hockey game. And she said, is he in a wheelchair? And he said, no, no, he is not. He, he looks great. And she said, is he physically handicapped? Can you tell that he's mentally challenged?

Al Ciaglia (00:56:24):

And he said, no, I, he, he doesn't, he's having a great conversation with me. We're enjoying the game. We're yelling at the players. It's a great, everything's great. And she said, it can't be him. So sure enough, the next game, Tony and I are sitting in the same spot with our backs against the glass, looking up at the, the section. And here comes this gentleman, his wife, and they're about 10 steps from the bottom. And she looks down and she sees Tony and I'll never forget. She broke down, literally collapsed to her knees and was bawling. Her eyes out, stood up, walked over, put her arms around Tony. And she was hugging him. Like he was the last person on earth that she would ever hug. And it turns out that she was the anesthesiologist that worked on Tony in the care flight helicopter, all through his surgeries that he had into the trauma intensive care unit.

Al Ciaglia (00:57:20):

And she went home that night after she had worked on Tony. And she told her husband that a young, healthy, good looking kid who was 15 years old, was admitted to the hospital today with a, with a, a very serious traumatic brain injury. And she actually prayed that he was not going to make it because she told her husband that his quality of life would be so poor if he came through. And that, that was the how severe. So it was such a strike of luck that we ended up sitting next to these people. And we, we shared what four or five seasons with them. I can't remember. Yeah. Yeah. And then of course, and very good friends with 'em of course we sold our tickets, moved to Vegas, and then the stars won the Stanley cup that year. Of course. Let's talk about that. That's about a fortune. Unbelievable, Joe, you tell, I tested by a year.

Tony Ciaglia (00:58:06):

You tell that story really

Al Ciaglia (00:58:07):

Well. Thank you. That was, that was an awesome story. It gives,

Tony Ciaglia (00:58:10):

It gives me the chills and I like feel it in my stomach when I hear that story, because it's just,

Al Ciaglia (00:58:18):

So what are the chances? What are

Tony Ciaglia (00:58:19):

The chances of that happening? Yep.

Al Ciaglia (00:58:22):

So Bonnie and Paul, if you guys are listening, we love you.

Tony Ciaglia (00:58:26):

You very much

Al Ciaglia (00:58:27):

Always will. For sure. So fast forward we sell our hockey tickets. The Dallas stars win the Stanley cup. Right? Of course. So that's probably a memory that we'll never get to see. Although our golden Knights went to the finals last year. So we fast forward, we moved to Vegas. Now it's 1997, right? I was attending college at lake forest college up in Chicago, just outside. I was playing hockey there. I was having the time in my life except I was freezing, shoveling snow and shit every day and freezing my ass off up there. Um, so in, in 1999, I decided to give up the snow shovel and I thought, I'll go join these guys in Vegas. Cuz it looks like they're having a hell of a time out there. They were going to concerts. They were going to boxing matches and I was shoveling snow. So I got here in 1999. Yes. And Tony had a gig. He was singing at the MGM grand and I thought, no way <laugh> he's made it. But, uh, that was a really interesting time. It was his first job as a, as a singer and a public place. Uh, actually now I take it back. You had one in Dallas, but you got thrown out of there. Remember I think you threw the microphone at a guy, Joe.

Tony Ciaglia (00:59:41):

I got, I trained for that position longer than I held that position. Yes. <laugh> I got thrown out the first

Al Ciaglia (00:59:49):

Day. Yes. So he's got this gig. He's at the brown Derby, which was a very famous steakhouse at MGM. And he's doing like this young Elvis show. That was a Frank Sinatra guy. Bobby Barrett. I think his name was yes, it was. Yes. And they're doing like this, um, this Frank and Elvis show and I was doing the sound. I was sitting behind a piano. I wasn't really doing anything but hitting play, but I was still standing there setting up the speakers and everything. It was a lot of fun. And I remember it was the most stressful time in my life because I was thinking my brother's up there. He was having a lot of problems at the time socially, um, rage control and he had a microphone <laugh> and that was probably the scariest thing ever. <laugh> in a bar full of people drinking. And just a real quick story.

Al Ciaglia (01:00:39):

I told him, not fool around with the audience. You just can't do that. And there was a girl there from Australia, it looked like Olivia knew it. And John I'll never forget. And she really had the eyes for Tony. So he took a break and I was talking to some of the regulars that were in the, in the bar and uh, no Tony, no Tony. So this was back in the days of the phone booth era. And there was a bank of phone of phones next to the restroom outside the brown Derby. And where do I find Tony in the phone bank with the Australian married woman? <laugh> I almost had a heart attack I had, where

Tony Ciaglia (01:01:22):

Was her husband? It was the bar. It was at the bar watching these things. You're

Al Ciaglia (01:01:27):

A real, you're a real gem. What a prince. These are the things that went on, but actually all in all, it was really a good time and great experience. So we decided that Tony's gig at the brown Derby, uh, wasn't necessarily paying the bills. <laugh> uh, it was more fun. I mean, Helen didn't even cover the gas to get down there from Summerland Joe. So we, we, we needed something bigger and better. And my dad approached me one morning and he said, what do you think about starting a mortgage company? And I looked at him like he was out of his mind. I said, what dad, I'm 19 years old. I don't even know what an interest rate is. Let alone do I know about starting a mortgage company? And he said, oh no, I've got it figured out. I've got everything set up. Uh, we're gonna do this. I said, okay, we'll give it a shot. And that's exactly what we did. And we built a very successful family business for several years. And that I think is really when Tony got involved with his, uh, his crazy hobby. Now

Tony Ciaglia (01:02:32):

<laugh> the question I'm most asked is why I started writing to serial killers. This is a good story because my old noggin wasn't in the best of a shape nogging is ahead. And I was still seeing a psychologist twice a week and my dad would, would come with me to all of my sessions. My mom didn't come though, cuz she couldn't handle it. She'd start crying. <laugh> every time, every time. And I'm the official crier I was sitting there and my psychologist said, Tony, you, you really need a hobby. And I thought, I thought, man, I told him, I said, Hey, listen, Nick, I'm gonna take this, uh, assignment home and I'm gonna kick it around a little bit. And I got home and my, my dad, when he was younger, who was across, it came across his mind to be, to be, um, criminal. What is it, dad? I stood, yeah, criminologist a criminologist. So there were books, the serial killers, like around the house and stuff. And I'd always taken interest in that when I was younger reading about, you know, infamous notorious criminals. And so I came up with a brilliant idea. My psychologist didn't think it was too brilliant <laugh> but I told him, listen, I've always been interested in mass murderer, serial killers, just, you know, notorious people. And, and I told him, I'm gonna reach out to these people and I'm gonna get to know them.

Tony Ciaglia (01:04:47):

And I guess what I really wanted to, to um, you know, delve into the idea, are these people natured or nurtured? That was like a big thing to me. Are these people born killers or is it from learning behaviors being abused?

Al Ciaglia (01:05:13):

So how'd you get their attention? What, what, what was the first letter that you wrote to him?

Tony Ciaglia (01:05:17):

What I did was, and I think this is why I've been successful in corresponding with them. My letters aren't like 1, 2, 3 pages. I write like 9, 10, 11 pages. I shared my life with these people and I really, I believe that my honesty and I did live a very exciting life in my twenties. So I had a lot to say to them, if I went on vacation, I would take them on vacation with me through words. And they, I really also believe that they, they were really into the fact that I was abused by friends and society who just didn't understand me or just wasn't willing to understand me. And I, I didn't also, I didn't hound them about their killings. I got to know these people. I got to know them as people.

Al Ciaglia (01:06:35):

How, how many letters would you say that you sent out initially?

Tony Ciaglia (01:06:38):

Um, initially I sent out let's see, 26.

Al Ciaglia (01:06:46):

Was

Tony Ciaglia (01:06:46):

It about 40? It was about no, no. It was 30. I sent out 30 letters. No, no, no. I'm sorry. 40. I sent out 40 letters. Right. Thanks guys. But you, you had like

Al Ciaglia (01:06:56):

36 write you back right?

Tony Ciaglia (01:06:58):

36. Yes. And, and my, my psychologist, you know, he said to me, Tony, you shouldn't do this. I'm against it. Everybody is born with a crystal clear river. And as we grow and as we experience life, shit gets thrown into our river. You become acquaintances with these people. You're throwing a whole lot of shit into your river. And at, at the, the, the, the, uh, biggest, um, the 30 people I corresponded with, I just kept on adding new people to the list. And at the most was about 47 people who were some of the killers that you wrote to tell the listeners? Oh, um, Randy Craft, uh, Eric Armstrong, Harvey Kegan, Kenneth Bianchi, the hillside strangler, Doug Clark, the sunset strip killer David gore, the butcher Robin get ripper. Randy Craft was a killer out of, uh, um, California. He he's known as the scorecard killer, Joseph mathy. He's a cannibal killer. Roy Norris, a toolbox killer Arthur haw cross. So on. So on

Al Ciaglia (01:08:36):

David gore, that's quite a name for a serial killer

Tony Ciaglia (01:08:39):

<laugh> I used to always say that too.

Al Ciaglia (01:08:41):

Very, I mean, it's crazy, isn't it? Yes.

Chris Ciaglia (01:08:44):

What started out as a hobby became a full-time gig. We had a phone, an ex, another phone installed in our house and, uh, it just got to be known as the murderer phone.

Al Ciaglia (01:08:57):

I think at that point, we, we realized that Tony's little hobby had turned into a full-time legitimate career. He was wanting to do a book about particular relationships that he had with some of these guys. But as we stumbled through the book dealings, we realized it's really hard to get a book deal. If you don't have a name, it's like, you know, you're treading in unchartered waters, but he ended up doing a book. It was a bestselling book called the serial killer whisperer, which was written by a gentleman named Peter ley. And it was published by Simon and Schuster back in January of 2012. So since the book came out, he's done a lot of cool things. Uh, he was on a television show called the doctors, which they, I thought they did a beautiful job on that show with, with bringing in, uh, the neurosurgeon mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, from where was he from? Kaiser Permanente, I think in California. Yes. Yeah. I thought he did a phenomenal job.

Tony Ciaglia (01:10:02):

Can I interrupt you really quick? Sure. I want to interject on that show really quick. The doctors, before I went on this show, people that were fans on my, my Facebook page,

Al Ciaglia (01:10:16):

At

Tony Ciaglia (01:10:16):

Least eight girls, me, if I would get what's it tra Travis Travis's phone number for them

Al Ciaglia (01:10:26):

<laugh> so,

Tony Ciaglia (01:10:27):

So the doctor on that show, he's a big favorite with the ladies

Al Ciaglia (01:10:31):

Was one of those eight people, our mother, because I think she actually was

Tony Ciaglia (01:10:35):

Right now. No, no better yet. It was your wife.

Al Ciaglia (01:10:41):

Let's go on to the next topic real quick though. I cut mom off on the murder phone and that's how the show was named after the murder phone, because Tony had come to Chris and I and said, Hey, you know what? These guys can call me. And we kinda looked at each other and we said, oh, we really didn't know that <laugh>. And he said, yeah, yeah. He said, I can set up a line and they can call collect, and I can talk to him. So naturally we didn't give out the home number, but we had a separate line installed and they used to call and murder phone was born. We decided to call it the murder phone. And that's where we're at today. And I was sorry to interrupt you before Chris.

Chris Ciaglia (01:11:28):

Oh, that's fine.

Al Ciaglia (01:11:28):

Well, I was the last thing I wanted to comment on that. I think one of my, the most proud moments that I have for you is some of the speaking engagements that you've done at universities across the country, university of Texas, um, university of Wisconsin at Oshkosh. And that's incredible. I mean, I, I was there. I'm watching you. Here's somebody who I know has been through hell and back and had had to relearn everything. You had to re relearn how to talk. I can't even talk right now. You had to relearn how to talk. And here you are on stage in front of 2000 college kids of all things, intellectuals, teachers, faculty members, educating them on serial killers, but also brain injury. And that is awesome.

Tony Ciaglia (01:12:18):

Thank you, Joe. I appreciate that.

Al Ciaglia (01:12:21):

Tony, maybe you can tell the listeners a little bit more about what you were interested in, you know, about why you were interested in these killers, how you got to understand these killers and give 'em some examples of the things you shared them with them.

Tony Ciaglia (01:12:38):

Well, according to the FBI statistics, there are 200 active serial killers among us today, which is pretty spooky in the United States alone. These monsters commit 11 murders each day. That's a, that's a very interesting number for over 12 years. I've I've complied information from thousands of letters, hundreds of hours of phone conversations in multiple prison visits. I've been, I've been to several death rows. The information includes some of their darkest secrets, such as murders that were committed, that they were never con uh, convicted of locations of bodies that were never found and locations of treasure chest that could lead to the resolution of several unsolved cold cases. Chris.

Al Ciaglia (01:13:34):

Yes, let's rewind back to when Tony first started talking to these killers, what did you think at the time?

Chris Ciaglia (01:13:42):

Well, I was, uh, basically taken aback when the psychologist said you need a hobby. I was thinking of, you know, coin collecting or stamp collecting. I remember when he got into writing these letters, I always used to say to him, Tony, anyone comes knocking at this door. I'm pointing straight to your room and looking away

Al Ciaglia (01:14:06):

<laugh>.

Chris Ciaglia (01:14:08):

But then as things unfolded over the years, and we could see that what he was doing was turning into something useful and valuable. These letters took on a whole different meaning as a family, we couldn't be prouder. He's turned over information to investigators, to help with some cold cases, put victims, families minds at, and he's connected with so many people around the world who have reached out to him because they have been touched by his personal story as told in the serial killer

Al Ciaglia (01:14:40):

Whisperer. And now we are here recording a podcast. What do you think of that, Jill? I think it's great. When I heard about the podcast show, it really seemed like such a natural progression for Tony to take, because he has so many people out there that are so interested in this story, not only on the serial killers, but also the human interest story of what he's been through and what we've been through as a family, that the book couldn't even cover a fraction of that. So there's a lot of true crime shows out there. There's a lot of podcasts out there, but this show is going to present information about killers and murderers that has been sourced from a completely different angle. A very authentic look into the lives of these guys. And I say that because we have to remember that that Tony never approached these guys as an investigator or a journalist or a cop. He wasn't doing a job that he was being paid for. His interactions with these guys were, were simply fueled by his own curiosity. Tony, Joe just made an important point. You know, you didn't just go straight in picking these guys' brains and peppering them with questions, right?

Tony Ciaglia (01:15:57):

That's correct. I, like I said a little bit earlier, I, um, I wanted to get to know these people as people. And I know, you know, a lot of people might think that, you know, these are monsters. Sure. What they did makes them monsters. But before they were monsters, they were people. And what I have found over the years of getting to know them very well, getting to know what kind of family they came from. These people share awful beginnings. So I treated them as people, not as criminals, if that makes sense. It's hard. You know, when, when, when, when you look at the heinous crimes that they committed towards other humans, it's hard.

Al Ciaglia (01:16:57):

It is.

Tony Ciaglia (01:16:58):

But

Al Ciaglia (01:16:58):

While we're on this subject, give the listeners just an idea of what murder phone the podcast is gonna be like, actually, you know what, before you go into that, I think what you were the, the sentence you were trying to finish, there is something that you had mentioned to us before that you never judge these guys, right? That's true. You never judge them by, that's probably what you were about to say. Yes, you never judge these guys because that really wasn't your place. There's somebody much higher than you or them or us. And they will face a final judgment someday. And that really wasn't for you to determine is that fair?

Tony Ciaglia (01:17:32):

Thank you for finishing the sentence. Yeah. You bet. That's. That's what I was going to say. Well, let me tell you now what murder phone the podcast is, um, going to, uh, share with you guys. The podcast is based on the first hand account of these criminal stories, it will allow our listeners insights into the minds of some of the most notorious killers of our time. Here are a couple of small samples of the rawness and the realness of the murder phone content. This is a short sound bite of a discussion I had over the phone with John Eric Armstrong, the psycho sailor.

Speaker 6 (01:18:19):

Does it take a long time to take someone's life?

Speaker 7 (01:18:22):

No. No, it doesn't pretty quick. Uh, 30 seconds. All you need to make a person pass out.

Speaker 6 (01:18:30):

Okay. But are they gone then?

Speaker 7 (01:18:33):

No, they're they're. All it does is, is, uh, uh, deprive the brain of oxygen. Okay. So maximum goes unconscious. Now, if you keep your hands on the, on the, the artery, uh, both arteries and stop the blood flow, then it becomes brain dead, which within a minute their brain will die.

Speaker 6 (01:18:54):

Oh, interesting. I didn't know that. Yep. Okay.

Speaker 7 (01:18:58):

So,

Speaker 6 (01:18:59):

But it's not like it is on TV. No. You know, they fucking people die like in 10 seconds.

Speaker 7 (01:19:06):

No. Yeah, no. It takes 30 seconds for, for you to, for the person to pass out from strangulation

Speaker 6 (01:19:12):

Mm-hmm <affirmative>

Speaker 7 (01:19:13):

And it takes like a minute, minute to five minutes to kill a person actually.

Speaker 6 (01:19:18):

And then the problem is, is you've got this body in your car.

Speaker 7 (01:19:22):

Okay. That's why you dump the body out right where you're at and take off <laugh>.

Speaker 6 (01:19:27):

Oh, that,

Tony Ciaglia (01:19:29):

Oh dad, Joe mom, what do you guys make of that?

Chris Ciaglia (01:19:37):

It's amazing to me how emotional he is when he talks about it. It's a very matter of fact. It's like, he's talking about going for a walk in the park. Very creepy.

Al Ciaglia (01:19:51):

It's almost like he's describing just putting his shoes on in the morning. Just a simple task. I know. And then the creepy laugh at the end when he talks about just dumping the body out. I mean, the, the man is I emotionless Joe David gore is gonna be featured on the first season of murder phone. Why don't you, uh, read a letter and give our listeners a little sample of what David gore is all about and I'd be happy to, so you can see I have this, uh, this is the original letter that was sent. Uh, the date of this letter is February 24th, 2008. So he would've been executed four years after this letter was written, I believe. And I'm gonna read actually, you know, this Friday is a seven year anniversary of this execution. Yep. Kind of interesting. So I'm gonna read, uh, I I've just retyped it out cuz it's, it's sometimes it's difficult to read their handwriting.

Al Ciaglia (01:20:49):

And before I read this letter, I just kind of wanna warn that it's, it's pretty heavy and um, it definitely is, is unsettling. So here it goes. Dear Tony, Hey Powell. I sure hope this will find you doing well as for me, I'm fine. I got your most precious letter. And as always, it's really great to hear from you. You know, Tony, you probably heard me say that I was the ultimate opportunist when it came to getting a woman in my job, I was constantly driving all over the county to all of the citrus groves. So at any given time I could happen upon an opportunity to do one. So I kept all my tools, which included guns, rope, tape, tape, all in my trunk. I know most guys look for a certain type of female before they would get her with me. It didn't matter.

Al Ciaglia (01:21:40):

I made sure that if I saw one that looked good to me, I would stalk her until I could make my move. There was this one day that I was driving around and I was hunting and I had that urge. Well, I came upon this woman standing in front of her car along the road. And it was so obvious that she was stranded. So there, I saw my opportunity. Now this woman was probably in her late forties, maybe early fifties, but she wasn't all that bad. So I pulled over and offered to help. And she accepted her car, had a busted radiator hose. I told her that I could drive her to an auto parts store to get the hose and come back and fix it. So we got on my truck and off, down the road we went and when the coast was clear, I pulled my gun on her.

Al Ciaglia (01:22:24):

She was stunned. Of course. And I told her if she tried anything that I would not hesitate to shoot her. And she kept asking me, why am I doing this? I just continued to tell her to shut up where my orange Grove was from where, where we were was maybe five miles. So I kept the gun on her the whole time we pulled up to the trailer and I made her lean forward and I tied her wrist together behind her back. She was definitely scared. And she kept begging me not to hurt her and kept asking me, why am I doing this? After I tied her hands, I grabbed her by her hair, pulled her head back. And with my hand, I cupped one of her tits and I squeezed as hard as I could. And I said, this is is why you cunt. I pulled her out.

Al Ciaglia (01:23:08):

I got her into the trailer and onto the bed where I cut off all of her clothes. She did not have a fantastic body, but by this time my urge was so intense and I just wanted one. Her tits were nice, but saggy. And she had this thick mat of pubic hair, I guess, older women don't trim down there. She was pretty much in a state of shock from fear. And I told her if she did exactly what I told her to do, I would not hurt her. When I had cut her clothes off, she was shaking with fear and just had this glazed look in her eyes. I told her that I was going to screw her. And if she didn't do anything crazy, I would not secure her feet to the bed. And I told her if she did anything whatsoever, that I didn't like that I would not hesitate to shoot her.

Al Ciaglia (01:23:57):

I ended up giving her a good screw. She wasn't the tightest hole, but she wasn't no young chick. The entire time I was screwing her. She just laid there like a mummy. The only time I got a reaction was when I would bite down really hard on her nipples. Since she had this thick mat of pubic hair, I wanted it. So I got out my razor to shave her and she freaked out. I had to scold her a little bit to keep her still. And in the end I did end up securing her feet to the bed. After I gave her a bald pussy, I spent some time enjoying her body, probing all of her holes, running my fingers through her hair, pulling on it, sucking and biting on her tits. And then just slowly moving my way up. As I sat on her chest with my knees on either side, I was rubbing her face very gently.

Al Ciaglia (01:24:50):

And then my hands slipped down around her wrinkly neck. As I told her, I changed my mind. I began squeezing as she bucked and struggled, but she was tied to the bed and then she slowly went limp. Then it was just a matter of cleaning up, storing my trophies away. I went through her purse and she had a pair of panties in there. And that surprised me. I'll tell you Tony, during the process of this whole situation, there's not a lot of long conversations. It's pretty much like being a robot. I really didn't want them to say a word and it depended a lot on what my mood was at the time. It's hard to really describe the emotional state I would be in when doing one. It was just like I had no emotion. I was just doing. And you know, when I got my biggest rush was really not the sex part. It was the capture. That's where I got my high. By the way, this woman was the oldest woman I had done. And I was never charged for this one. Well, my very good friend, I will close this here and write more again, please take extra special care and I will look forward to hearing from you again. Take care, pal, your friend, David.

Tony Ciaglia (01:26:08):

Ugh. Thank you, Joe.

Al Ciaglia (01:26:11):

That is one evil fucking man. I'm sorry. He just is. I mean, I think it's, it's crazy in his letter. He, he refers to them as one. Yeah. And he talks about this urge, which I know you guys will get into later in, in particular. But yeah, it's really for him, it's just an object and an act. That's all he's doing and the way they just casually talk about it. Like he's having a drink at the bar with his buddy. I know is what's the, the creepiest thing all very

Tony Ciaglia (01:26:41):

Disturbing. Unbelievable. It really

Al Ciaglia (01:26:43):

Is. And, and when you think about it, the second this girl got in the car, she had no chance. Right. And zero chance. He talks about that in other letters. Yeah. He really does. Yeah, exactly.

Tony Ciaglia (01:26:55):

And those will be shared with you. Yeah. Thanks Joe. I, I agree. This guy is okay. Pure evil, peer evil. And he killed with his cousin. You guys. Yeah. So, you know, David got the execution, the other cousin, Fred Waterfield is serving life in prison. Well, his family's trying to get him off. They don't believe he's, uh, um, guilty. He's probably David gore. He's probably one of the worst that I, that I dealt with. And that, that takes the cake because I covers a lot of ground. Exactly. Because I dealt with some real

Al Ciaglia (01:27:52):

Pieces of work.

Tony Ciaglia (01:27:53):

Yes. But

Al Ciaglia (01:27:54):

He was so calculated and I think that's what made him so scary. Mm-hmm <affirmative> remember. He would tell you about all the ROS that he had, where he would show up at people's houses. And he was dressed as the bug man. Oh yeah. I mean he,

Tony Ciaglia (01:28:06):

Oh, one other thing though, he, he was good friends with Ted Bundy

Al Ciaglia (01:28:11):

In prison, right

Tony Ciaglia (01:28:12):

On death row. And that will all be discussed in future podcasts in the first season.

Al Ciaglia (01:28:17):

So speaking of season one, why don't you guys run us through what we're gonna be covering? Sure. In season one, we'll be covering Tony's six year relationship with David gore through Gore's letters. Like the one you just heard, you'll get to know this Monster's most intimate thoughts, how he hunted, what were his trophies? Personal detailed descriptions of killings, his death row relationship with Ted Bundy and how he literally talked his way into the execution chamber. You're gonna hear interviews with women who survived to tell of their horrifying experiences with David gon Fred Waterfield, the Kelly cousins, since we will cover a story that not many know and no one ever talks about, we guarantee that this season will get you as close to a serial killer. As you ever wanna be. We hope that you've enjoyed this introduction to Tony and how he became known as the serial killer whisperer.

Tony Ciaglia (01:29:21):

I want to thank you guys, my family for joining me today and you for all the help and support that you guys have given me since my accident.

Al Ciaglia (01:29:31):

I appreciate you guys inviting me. Hopefully I'll be invited back at some point, but I think this story is one to tell and I will definitely be a listener on the other end.

Chris Ciaglia (01:29:43):

Tony has done a fantastic job. He remembers details, even little tiny incidental things about these killers, and it will be very interesting to, to listen to him.

Al Ciaglia (01:29:56):

Thanks you guys. And I can guarantee you'll be invited back. We are family.

Joey Ciaglia (01:30:02):

This is Joey Ciaglia. And thank you for listening to murder phone hosted by my brother, Tony. Ciaglia the subject of the best selling book, the serial killer whisperer and his co-host Al Ciaglia. For more information on the show, please visit murder phone.com, where you can ask questions, link to our social media accounts, and much, much more. Please subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcast. And an iTunes review would be much appreciated. Murder phone was written and produced by Tony Ciaglia and Al Ciaglia and recorded at the level nine studios in Las Vegas, Nevada. Thanks to Scott for his editing magic. Please join us next week for another exciting episode of murder phone

Tony Ciaglia (01:30:49):

Before we go, I want to give out a huge shout out to all those living this life after brain injury, which is our new normal as so many call it. You are awesome. Keep going. I know I will. And of my listeners out there that know someone living with a brain injury or any other mental health issue, hear me, please be kind, please be patient. And most of all, be understanding. Remember, they are all doing the best they can.