Sexy Meat Talks - Podcast Crossover | FINAL EPISODE S1 Ep 10 - Part 1

This is an extra-special Seven Million Bikes; our first ever crossover episode with fellow Saigon-based podcast, Sexy Meat Talks. A massive thank you to Sexy Meat Talk hosts, Joshua Durkin and Mark Gustafson, for being so open and enthusiastic to this collaboration.

Mark, from the Chicago area in the U.S., is a Brew Master, Pit Master, and enthusiast of all things Meat! In addition, he is co-founder and co-owner of Quan Ut Ut American BBQ and BiaCraft - Artisan Ales.

Josh, is a self-confessed damaged American perpetually creating a guide to living and teaching abroad in Vietnam. He also is an enthusiast of all things meat!

We talk about our shared love of beer and experiences of living in Saigon, how they met (and finish each others sentences) and came to create Sexy Meat Talks.

This is only Part 1 of this special crossover episode. To listen to Part 2 head over to Sexy Meat Talks to listen on their Website.

And don't forget to like their Facebook too.

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Episode art designed by Niall Mackay, with pictures supplied by guests and used with permission.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 2:18

[inaudible]

Speaker 2: 2:28

Season one of Seven Million Bikes; A Saigon podcast. This is going to be the final episode of season one. I'm going to take a break for a little bit and then I'll be right back pretty shortly with season two. Gonna have some awesome guests lined up. Um, many of them listeners suggested. Then if you do have any suggestions for guests, let me know. But today we have an extra special crossover podcast. Episode two I have with me today the hosts of Sexy Meat Talks, which is another Saigon podcast I have with me, Josh and mark. And we're going to talk to them about their background and say, gone how they've ended up here. We're going to talk about their careers here and say, gone. We're going to talk as well about their podcast sexy meat talks, which if you haven't checked it out, make sure you have a listen and, uh, we're overall generally going to have a bit of a banter. So thank you very much for joining me today. Thank you. So Mark here is the founder of Quan Ut Ut and Biacraft, which are, uh, two of my favorite places to go in, in Saigon for sure. And so tell me a bit about your background. Where are you from? How did you end up in Saigon?

Speaker 3: 3:33

Okay. Uh, yeah, I'm, uh, I'm from Chicago, actually the small northwest suburb of Chicago, but Chicago's easier to say it cause everyone knows where that is. Um, and uh, what brought me out here to Vietnam? Um, I, I guess originally as a, a childhood friend of mine was out here doing business for years and I always kept in touch with them. And um, he brought a friend of his back to Chicago, um, in 2009 and that's my business partner, Tim Scott. Um, they, they, he was just missing home and Tim was coming to town cause he wanted to go to Lalapalooza. He had, you know, living in Vietnam. He couldn't get his share of music. And that was my original connection to Vietnam. And how it worked was I, I'd met Tim and Jake was in town and uh, yeah, we went to Lollapalooza and barbecue together and no idea I'd ever go to Vietnam or even on a vacation at that point. But about a year later, um, my friend Jake, you know, through Skype, you know, convinced me, get over here, you'll love it, you know, check it out and I'll, I'm like, it was expensive and of modest income back home, but I took me a little while to save up for it and make the trip. And uh, it was 2010 and I, I did love it. I went to central Vietnam, uh, Da Nang, Hue and Hoi An, just a two week vacation. And I also met, met Tim. Um, still no, no plans to move out here. It was just a, I fell in love with the country though, uh, back in the states and yeah, I think all my friends, like, you haven't stopped talking about Vietnam. What is wrong with you? I'm like, you just have to experience it. The energy, the vibe, the feel. And it was, it was, I still didn't know know when I was going to go back to Vietnam or if I ever would. But then my buddy Jake again got me out to Vietnam. He was getting married and I'm like, I gotta be at your wedding, dude. I've been, you know, so came out for two weeks all in Saigon that time. Um, I stayed at my buddy Jake's house and for his wedding, um, this is the moment when, when I first started thinking about moving out here, he, uh, he was having a dinner on the Thursday night before his wedding on the weekend cause he had, he had 10 family members, mom, dad, aunties, cousins, nieces, nephew, I dunno, all kinds of family in town. And he's, he was just saying to me, Oh crap, I gotta, I gotta Cook this big meal and I don't know how to cook. And I, the only thing I can think of is I'll order delivery and have it on my rooftop. And I'm like, let me cater your wedding, your party as a wedding gift. And I did. And so I, uh, when our time I found yours and market because that's where I could get a grill. He didn't have anything. So I bought him a grill, um, and uh, found the co op mart, you know, I was just on vacation for a wedding and really, you know, that was, I made ribs, I made barbecue sauce, I made all this stuff that eventually would become our, our barbecue menu had called[inaudible] and I'm Tim Scott, good friends with my friend Jake was on the roof that day and it was Thanksgiving night, 2012. So it was, it was a US holiday and it was Jake's family who I grew up with. We're all there and it was like happy Thanksgiving and Tim's eating the ribs and, and he, after the, sometime after the meal, he's like, what do you think about moving out here and open a barbecue restaurant with me? It was just like, what are you talking about? It's crazy. And uh, he said, think about it and he goes,[inaudible], you know, at the time he said, it's pretty easy to open a small business here. We could do it, you know, and[inaudible] I think about two weeks after getting home, I, uh, I already had my house for sale and was tearing down my life to move out here a year after that conversation I landed in Saigon and uh, a week before I got here, Tim called me and said, we found a location that's the Govan Kit store and district one. And uh, yeah, three months after I got here the restaurant was open so I didn't come here looking for work. Work brought me here and yeah, I always wanted to own my own restaurant and now I've got nine of them. So that's incredible. Yeah, it's, it's amazing. I was thinking too, and[inaudible] cause[inaudible] experts, we all kind of share some commonality in our kind of genesis or backgrounds

Speaker 2: 8:10

stories, right? Like for a lot of them are fortuitous, you know, whether it's someone didn't do the paperwork or whether someone's wedding needs catered or whatnot. And then there also is that thing about Vietnam having that pool that you were talking about. Like we came, we were similar. We came, my wife and I came for a holiday for like two weeks, traveled the length of the country, just fell in love with it. And when we went back, we went back to, we lived in Wellington in New Zealand. We didn't know of any Vietnamese food anywhere in Wellington. Right. And then, but when we came back, we were craving it. We didn't realize there was a Asian supermarket across the road from us with everything that we wanted. We went and bought the rice paper room. They started making their own food. We found like five Vietnamese restaurants to go just within walking distance distance from our place. We didn't know that was there and we just spent that whole weekend back in Wellington, like eating Vietnamese food. I remember as well we found a restaurant with Bahbahbah. Guess how much can Ababa was in New Zealand?

Speaker 4: 9:07

Mm.

Speaker 3: 9:07

Guessing 10 10 u s dollars or something.

Speaker 2: 9:10

Just about life as it was going to lowball prior nine New Zealand dollars, which I think maybe seven US dollars, something like that. And we will just see like it was a 50 cents here. But it's something about Vietnam or you come here and, and then you're like, this is no wisdom. Yes. Usually, yes.

Speaker 3: 9:29

Yeah. That was also something I noticed on that first vacation. I didn't, you know, sitting at a restaurant by the ocean and Denang somewhere or somewhere and eating prawns and crab and all this incredible seafood with crates of beer. And it's like we get the bill, it's like, okay, seven bucks each and it's like, oh my God, I still get sticker shock when I go back to Chicago and by around the drinks for my friends and it's like[inaudible] all my money.

Speaker 2: 9:57

Yeah, I know. I remember we did a like um, be a hallway up in Hanoi when we were on our first vacation here. Similar thing like so much beer, so much food. Got The bill and it was something similar like five bucks ahead or something like that. Just like this is crazy cause in New Zealand laggards. Ridiculously expensive.

Speaker 4: 10:15

It'd be so hard to find that in the states. Yeah. Just like look with mark saying there's a one, one of my first, uh, little areas I hung out when there was an actually wouldn't even Chi. There's the 1880, the alley were so many teachers and x pass live. Uh, there's a lot of alleys around there where you can kind of duck in and sit down and get reasonably good food, um, and inexpensive beer and just what you guys are saying, spend better part of an evening and walk out of there paying less than 200,000, which is less than eight books. Yeah, it's mind blowing. Right.[inaudible]

Speaker 2: 10:54

when you got here, what were your intentions and you said you were going to stay for two or three months? Well, I figured that I would, I would come out here and try to[inaudible]

Speaker 4: 11:02

start the teaching process. I, yeah, I, I always had that in mind. I just, previous to that I was not the most adventurous person and I'd gone a few places before and Kinda, I'm sort of mentally bottomed out and went back. I moved around quite a lot, uh, or at least for, for appropriate person with my proclivities, it felt like a lot. And I, uh, so I just had it in my head to like, yeah, I'll be out there three, four months, I'll probably get tired of it or something. But again, Dave, day two or three or somewhere early on, I just had a moment with a moonshot and, uh, I was like, I just can't get this food back in the states. I that I'm sure I could find it now, but, um, it was the food and the ease of life, uh, quickly got its hooks in me. And then I also, I think a little bit after that, just realizing how friendly and open most Vietnamese people are a, that certainly didn't hurt.

Speaker 2: 12:09

Did you see, there was something just yesterday about how Saigon has been rated one of the top 10 places in the world to live for experts. The only massive study by HSBC, and one of the things was the friendliness and the openness of the people. And I think sometimes, I forget just how friendly Vietnamese people are, but they've even been able to speak the language and that. So that's my question. Right. For you guys. And I ask everyone this, how's your Vietnamese,

Speaker 4: 12:35

uh, two people. She'll do it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 12:37

Not existing. And actually I have, uh, I have my, my wonderful wife, she, she's, she's Vietnamese. Um, and it's made me even lazier about learning in second language because a lot of times it's just, I look at her and she's like, I got it. Okay.

Speaker 2: 13:34

I thought that was how you learned Vietnamese because if you have a Vietnamese wife or partner,

Speaker 3: 13:39

she has perfect English, probably better English than mine.

Speaker 2: 13:45

And so have you learned more than chew, chew, chew, chew. If you've listened before means like a little Vietnamese,

Speaker 4: 13:52

uh,[inaudible] uh, I, I've, I've studied Vietnamese. My intonations Kinda crap, but, um, okay. I have a decent vocabulary. And so if, if I, if I only just used it more, if I practice what I preach in the classroom, if I just treated a, um, you know, the typical teacher or like a plumber doesn't want to do plumbing in their own house, uh, I theoretically should be able to learn this language cause I know how to do it. I know how to acquire language, but I'm going to, you know, an adult, male lazy person. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:25

I started out, you know, I get Rosetta stone and so I know my numbers and my colors. That's about it, you know. And then being in the food business, m a r funny names for beers, I know how to insult people and say slang things because of that. Um, and I also, I can get in a cab and tell them anywhere in the city how to get the writing. I know the street names or can almost see them close enough that they understand me. So that's about my extent of how much I've learned and really the amount of English that the younger generation of Vietnamese are speaking. So much of our staff, I just walk up to them and I take it for granted that they know English and, and then most of them do. And it's, it's, it's, that's also made it a little harder for me to get that ball rolling.

Speaker 2: 15:11

Yeah. And we, and we've talked about this before on the podcast and I mean I talk about it with friends as well. It's so difficult in Saigon, it's so easy to be lazy because so many people speak English. You know, I think if you are stationed somewhere out in the country or somewhere else where English isn't as prevalent, you'd force yourself to learn that more. But we're just so lucky here and it makes it all later.

Speaker 3: 15:31

Did it also for me being American and what I do is what people are buying from me. You know, they're coming in and having an American cuisine in American craft beer.

Speaker 2: 15:43

So that's what they expect from me. But so you mentioned the names of your Br. Ana, you won't be able to see this because we're on a podcast. Mark pointed to my tee shirts, so I'm wearing a tee shirt. Coincidentally, that is one of the be a craft beers, which are do you want to pronounce it?

Speaker 3: 15:57

So Summer Chan is a roughly translated ugly but vain. Um, and uh, we have, uh, several, probably 10 beers with these funny Vietnamese names and um, our, our Vietnamese customers love it and they think it's so funny that you call a beer a slang insult, you know, and uh, we have Zabar Cole, which is you fucking liar, you know, uh, Rye and slept. Let's get naked.

Speaker 2: 16:25

Well, the one that made me laugh was that, well, no, it didn't make me laugh. Sorry. The one that educated me was Jeff[inaudible]. Yeah. Because my Vietnamese friend had told me this phrase and how translation to English was, it means if I die, I will know. And I didn't really understand what she meant by that, but she's like, yeah, it's a Vietnamese phrase means if I die, I will know. And I was like, okay, fine. And it wasn't Delaware to be a craft. Got Your Beer. And I said, Chip Lynn. But there's translated as to vinyl has it. Of course. That's what she was trying to say.

Speaker 3: 16:56

But I think what it really means, if I know that I am dead, you know, but when it's turned around, yeah. So we came up with rough translations like bitch at lean doesn't mean fuck if I know exactly right.

Speaker 2: 17:09

Okay. But this is similar. Yeah, it's the same. So[inaudible] that's where we, it's the direct translation means dead. Like[inaudible]

Speaker 3: 17:17

is another, B is our Paleo and a chalk towers like don't fuck with me.

Speaker 2: 17:23

Yeah. I like waiting in his tee shot, but I also don't, because I get such funny looks wearing it. And I walked into the doctor's surgery one morning and I was half asleep and this girl is still there, my tee shirt. And she was like that. And I was like, why is she stared at me and then I looked and I was like, Oh, I'm wearing this. It's

Speaker 3: 17:43

also, it's a foreigner wearing

Speaker 2: 17:44

it and it's like, they know that that's a funny thing to put on a shirt, you know? So after that, I try not to hear it from going somewhere formal with the doctors or somewhere like match. I just weird from going out for a year.

Speaker 3: 17:56

That's another thing I love about Vietnam is, um, yeah, you can have fun with stuff like that. You know, our customer, our Vietnamese customers love that. We're playful in the restaurant. It makes them, you know, so that's another fun part of Vietnam.

Speaker 2: 18:12

Well, I talked about this with somebody, I think it was two ones out on the podcast. And one thing that I think is amazing when you go to these bars, it's craft beer, please. He's all Western places and using quotation marks. It is mostly Vietnamese people that are there. Would you think that you're servicing more Vietnamese[inaudible] westerners

Speaker 3: 18:30

and, and then that, that goes back to, you know, my, my partner Tim Scott, he, uh, when we opened, I was so happy. I was so proud of, I'm, I'm gonna make chicken wings like this and I want to show people all this American food, but he's like, we're not opening in the next pet place. We're, we're opening, you know, American barbecue for Vietnamese. It, and I was conscious from the beginning and I didn't understand what he meant by, he's like, we're going to get x pants. You know, we were, we're western food, but we wanna we wanna present it in a restaurant that is, is for the Vietnamese. And I learned after moving here and seeing ex-pat bars, and nothing's wrong with those kinds of places, but they're there. They're exactly that. Um, an example is like some of the girly bars over on, um, the beginning of pester street. Um, there's nothing wrong with running a business like that. I mean the, they get a lot of good looking young Vietnamese ladies and the whole bunch of old ex-pats like to hang around and drink there. And it can be a fun place. But you know, Tim was telling me, you know, do you think a Vietnamese family feels comfortable with a bunch of ex pets googling young ladies? It's not really what we wanted to do. And, and we did. And boy was he right it because when we started getting busy, Vietnamese couple would come in and they liked the experience and then we'd see them the next weekend with grandma, mom, dad and four kid group Group of 12 and then yeah, that's when that's, that's what we wanted all along. And um, yeah, I would say because of that, you know, our, our style of service, it is almost all of our restaurants as a whole, collectively 75 to 80% Vietnamese on any given night

Speaker 2: 20:20

and economically, right. Thinking about it, like how many experts are there? I think I looked up this week like 60,000 ex-pats. I'm going sure what that number was, what smart kids have around that. Then you got 10 million people that live here. So I mean if you're going to keep to the 60,000 people, it makes sense. You're not going to, you're not going to have nine restaurants, you're not going to expand in you pretty

Speaker 5: 20:42

difficult to be successful. So you really do have to keep,

Speaker 3: 20:45

yeah, we're actually, we're at eight restaurants in a beer truck, but we are opening our ninth, the restaurant next month now. Hey, where's that going to be? Ah, we already have the location, so I can say we have nine restaurants. Um, uh, it's in Benton district in the, there's the area, um, Kinda over by a city garden and you're like quiet and both. And it's like a lot of like Japanese places are[inaudible]. That's like my favorite new spot now. So we're going to have a little be a craft and we're going to do an all Japanese menu for via craft that vacation. So yeah, I'm in there just two weeks ago, a police code, Moon

Speaker 5: 21:21

techie or more techie and I'm just randomly found it and it was so weird.

Speaker 3: 21:26

I found a couple places back in there. They're just fun. Those, I can't remember the name of the place I went with, with my boat, with Tim. Um, and uh, they had you grilled your food right on your table. There's a little ash pit in and then like about 15, 20 minutes into our, you know, we're having beers and grilling up food, boom, these girls come out and they're standing on top of, on top of the bathroom, there was a legend, two platforms going up in the air in their girls miniskirts dancing, the Japanese music and they danced for about five minutes. And I was like, wow, that was cool. What the hell is that? And it every hour on the hour they did it. We were there for a couple hours. We're like, I like this place. Very Japanese

Speaker 5: 22:11

that, that's all. I'm glad you're opening in that area cause that's a crueler spot. Cause have you been to like the Birdie party and then by burning your by Birdie and then there's quiet

Speaker 3: 22:20

I think just across the street from us, we're on a corner, right, right down there.

Speaker 5: 22:24

That spot. They're like, I'd never been to like maybe a few months ago. And then[inaudible]

Speaker 3: 22:28

yeah, go back. Quite kinds of nice shops. Would we, uh, I think someone tipped, I don't know exactly who told us about the location, but, um, we, uh, we went over and looked at it and we'd signed the contract the very next morning and was like, we want this, this is a cool spot, man. So we're excited about it. So when you first got here,

Speaker 5: 22:48

Josh, what was the state of craft beer or the food industry? Food, like the kind of western food industry, I guess? Uh, I think possibly platinum existed. Uh, I forget their chronology, but, um, there was, pasture street had opened, I may be way off in this, but I want to say, uh, December[inaudible]

Speaker 3: 23:11

right at the end of the year, I think, I think in January, January of 2014.

Speaker 5: 23:15

Okay. So I came in April and January of 2015, I think it was 2015 ikea. He approved 2015 for a holiday and I got to, I remember coming home and the Jasmine IPA. And so we lived in Wellington, which is like the craft beer capital of the Pacific, like craft Beaune and Wellington New Zealand. It's unbelievable. So I remember coming in and being like jasmine IP or this is Amisha self does. I've got a picture. I was going through pictures

Speaker 2: 23:40

like two or three years later of a trip TV now. And in the background is Misha behind the bar serving serving your views. I sent it, it's crazy. I'd never met skews there very early on. Yeah,

Speaker 3: 23:51

he was walking around like he was there and he was one of their first customers. And I think he told his story to you and your listeners. I heard it in the last podcast, but I can, I can tell you accurately how the craft beer scene unfolded. Um, Josh is right. Platinum was, was here when we opened our restaurant in March of 2014. Um, yeah, from March until the end of the year in order. Um, we were brewing in our restaurant, what, it wasn't called Ba craft yet, it was just quantum[inaudible] IPA and we had a couple beers available and um, platinum sometime around may or June were the first ones in kegs that you could get your hands on. And then, uh, there was fuzzy logic was there brewing very small batches, but cow to Max, we're Bruin fuzzy logic in that in 2014, they were in that alley with kegs of beer from time to time as well. They got their start and uh, and then, uh, by the end of the year, pastor street opened their tasting room. And then by the middle of 2015, we opened a little via craft in town, Ian and opening night we had two pastor streets, two platinum's to be a craft beers. And we named the place be a craft and fuzzy logic content that was all the beer in the country at that time. So if 2000, 15 to 2016 in the month of August, it went from six beers available in the country to we had 14 beers on tap and we couldn't put all of mine. We were rotating different barriers. And then we just kept growing the number of taps. Now, uh, the be a crafted and Lego cat, um, has 50 taps and we, we put only two or three of each brewery's beers on. We couldn't put them all on there, whether there'd be, there's over 150 beers to choose from now in this country. So

Speaker 2: 25:47

it's so exciting. I, and if you've had before I talk about craft beer, I'm a, I do love it. And Wellington was an exciting time because I think of what I see now is Vietnam is Saigon is going through what Wellington went through like five, 10 years ago. You know, cause the craft beer industry kind of comes up behind America, right? Like that's the tube of blades on and all the industries can follow behind. And so if you heard the story with me, show you how they got burned on, uh, investing in the craft beer[inaudible] and so, but it was so cool at the time just seeing all these craft beers explored in the store. Good. And then coming here again on a holiday, just give me some cash. I'll make a beer craft beer. So, yeah, I've lost it all. It's own gone to what were you drinking when you first got your Josh? Uh, I did the, the, the white wallet. Uh, I do a lot

Speaker 4: 26:38

of xeroxing tigers and, um, you know, just your standard, cheaper beers. I'm not gonna disparage any of them is certainly got my enjoyment, although certain ones, a few of those caused bigger headaches than others. So they shy away from a couple. Now the one in the Green Ball,

Speaker 3: 26:53

yeah, let's, we'll say that, but, but early, early on,

Speaker 4: 26:59

uh, I was lucky enough to meet Max and Colin had fuzzy logic, so, or I, they used to do, this was probably in, in 2016 not 15, but 2016 now that I met him. But like[inaudible] I used to be one of a few friends, they'd call him up, hey, we got a cake delivery free beer if you help us on the back 300 gigs or something. And so, um, yeah, I mean, that very well might have been 2017 I haven't thought about that in a while, but early on it was, it was platinum. Uh, any, I, I've, I always loved microbrews, uh, since I could drink them and uh, and a little bit before I legally could do

Speaker 3: 27:38

which 21 in America because of that three years of legal exclusively for one. What was the crappiest scene like?

Speaker 4: 27:46

And then Connecticut that this, as I remember, there was New England brewing, which was, uh, blowing up. Um, uh, that New England in general, uh, has, it has just been exploding with, with a craft beer. Uh, but new haven Connecticut had some, some great bars that you could go to and uh, see like music drink, good craft beers. Uh, the ginger man, which is, I think that's in Stanford, has a, they have like a 50 tap setup. They've also, I think, I'm pretty sure that their first location was in New York City. What they there was, there was places you could go to who's ready for a BLM.

Speaker 3: 28:25

Yeah, we all the some, yeah. But good. Some, a couple of cans. Yeah. Well, I, I've been, I've seen the market and all our own tone and that's really made me want to buy the beer. Which Ah, if you live in Saigon, you love seeing their, the latest be a craft marketing. Um, I've seen you naked more times than I'd like to can, yeah. That it sells a lot of beer in that to, how did that come about? Um, we, we've, we've always had a lot of fun, like our funny names and, and we'd done this. We had done some other marketing. It was basically making fun of the via jet. They've stepped on their own a few times. Um, the first time was when we've, the first year we were open, um, via check. They, they just kinda did a media scam. They, what they did was they, they photo a lot of really attractive Vietnamese women in Bikinis, you know, bumping their butts together and really suggestive photos and a lot more skin than the government likes. So what they did is they released the, released the photos on a, I'm one of the models personal Facebook page. And when the government tried to find them for these photos cause they got millions of views and Vietnamese kids everywhere, we're like, oh yeah. And uh, they, they said, oh, we, we a marketing company took those pictures and we, we, we didn't want to, we didn't want to post them. They were leaked on Facebook. That's the model. Nothing. They still find them. So shame on you Tim, who is really quick on this stuff. He, uh, he's like, we got, we gotta rip, we gotta rip on him for it. So we sent our marketing guy down to buoy even, which for your listeners, that's the party street in Saigon. It's, it's always, there's always trouble on that street and depending on what you're looking for, um, what we were looking for, male models. So we went down and we asked a bunch of people from all over the world, there was an English guy, a Japanese guy, and um, we said all the free beer and bacon you want. If he come down to our restaurant and we're going to, and they're like, what do you want us to do? Or we're going to put you in bore at Man Keenis and we're going to make, we're going to cop copy the photos via jet. So that meant, oh yeah, a whole lot of nudity except for a small bore at Man. Kini there was spillage that was problems, but it worked. It did exactly what we wanted to. We leaked the photos on our Facebook page and uh, it, it went viral, got several thousand hits and it was yanked down because of we had to blur the photos because of the spillage. And then the photo went back up and it was in the psigen ear. And, uh, uh, what's the word? Magazine. They all picked it up and ran with it and we got a lot of funny press for it. A few people were a little offended, but mostly it was just for fun. And then fast forward to last year, the under 23, a football team, they, a Vietnamese one won the cup. They, they, they were the number one team in all of Asia and Vietnamese are very, very proud of their football, you know, and uh, via jet did it again. They, they put bikini models with a big hilarious like crown on this lady and she's hugging one of the footballers in the plane while they're flying back from there, their win in China. And 24 hours later they had pictures of me in the same getup and I'm hugging my, our general manager of our restaurants and he's looking exactly like the soccer player and it went viral. There was an online vote, the model against me and I won by like 88%, you know, so send me these links and I'll put them in the show notes. Some, some, some of them have been, it not been taken, taken down yet. They were in, one of them was in the newspaper, the one the under 23 football team won and it was pulled I think via jet, like paid him to take it down cause we were stealing their thunder a little bit. And so he explained to me marketing. So

Speaker 2: 32:34

I think we should order bills and see if they can make it here before the end of the recall. Okay. Should we? Yeah, sure.

Speaker 3: 32:42

Um, I'd like to order a six pack.

Speaker 4: 32:47

Yes. Yes, please. Can we get a three Champlin Chum and three, so much up ta and three dump check towel. Yes. Okay. Sounds good. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 33:15

So we've just all dulled some beetles from the Foun. Yana be a craft. How has the customer service now? Well, there's another example of us not speaking Vietnamese and able to[inaudible].

Speaker 3: 33:26

I ordered six beers from our, yeah, I love that about our a, our Vietnamese staff are there.

Speaker 2: 33:35

Excellent. I'm getting a little treat here. So biscuits being with is as always sleeping down, woken up now. And she's at giving Josh some love. So we've all done some beers from being a craft. They should be here hopefully in 15, 20 minutes. We'll continue on what we're getting parked. Talking about bill, so much. All of you have now been here for nearly six years out with the food and beverage industry, which obviously has just changed massively. What are the biggest changes that you've seen in Saigon?

Speaker 3: 34:01

Um, quite a quite a bit. Um, when, when we moved here and we opened, um, there was, there was a couple of places that, that, you know, really, uh, no, I don't want to say that Kinda hit another level for Vietnam. Uh, what I mean by that is, you know, when I got here five years ago, it was still a lot of the little steel tables, the little red chairs, a lot of, you know, that they'd been the same for 20 or 30 years, uh, without much change. Um, but there was just starting to be a, what I've as an example and when I visited in 2010, um, my, my, my business partner Tim Scott took me to like black cat was this, that was the best burger in the city. And there wasn't much other choices, you know, whether there was a place that's not there. Neither one of these are still here now.[inaudible] was a Mexican place. Um, but, um, what I'm talking about though is like pizza for p was open when I moved here and that everyone told me that you got to go there. That's like another level, you know, they, they, they make their own cheese and then they did all this wonderful stuff and, and then like, um, you know, urban kitchen and uh, I'm starting to think of relish and sons opened and pastor street opened and we opened and right around that 2015, 2014, 2015 period, like 10 or 15 really new and modern establishments opened. And the thing that's changed the most from them, Tom till this year, it's not quite as easy to do as it was five years ago. And what I mean by that is, um, if you want to keep up with, with the quality of the restaurants that are open, you've got to put a little more than we, what we got our first restaurant, when I get an example, I think it was well under$50,000 invested in from all the original partners. And I know that our last couple of restaurants, it was more than three times that priced to, to open establishment, but it was also, we, we didn't have a choice when we did that first one. I think it'd be very difficult for someone to open a nice quality restaurant. Um, yeah. On keeping it under$50,000 invested. It's just, that's how much things have changed in the cloud. The quality, well, price has increased. Um, mostly the rents. Um, I think in the, in the city centers it starting to get hard to find anything under 10 grand a month. And a lot of places where he's able to get under two grand a month, a few years back, and it, the price has just keep going up the price of land, um, that's skyrocketing. Um, but even laborers, it's, you know, Vietnamese or the Labor is, I mean, compared to western standards, still very low, but it, it, you know, as Vietnam develops, that's creeping up with it, you know? So, um, I would say the opportunity is still here. That for, for, you know, people from abroad starting a small business here, but it's growing fast. I mean, see

Speaker 2: 37:21

changing like that, like the development of his tone that with Susan Lee, I don't know if, you know Susan and it's on go always that, that I can live with sweet spot right now, that all of it developing and as the things that you need to get to open a business and it's cheap enough in those opportunities. Enough, like, you know, you can get in here, but those, that's kinda chase changing quickly, right?

Speaker 3: 37:41

Yeah, yeah. Big Time. Um, it w we're, we're, we're one of the companies changing it, you know, I mean, we, we just opened our beer truck. That's something new for Vietnam. Um, we didn't even know it was possible. We wanted to do it for a long time. Uh, but you know, my partner, Tim saw the pizza three, six, five truck. We're like, hey, they're doing it here. Where, where did they get that truck? And then we started looking into it and then we're friends with Masood gay. The, uh, the founder and owner of, um, pizza for p and he told us he, he's got a truck and he's got, he's got a license, so let me find out what you can do this now. And we got a licensed beer truck and right now it's parked at the old vietcraft cause we're remodeling 90 some tweet and district too. That's another thing that like, you know, has been going crazy in the states, but it, it's that starting to happen here and we like, we like very much being one of the first with a truck because there's going to be a flood of them now. You know, there'll be a Pepsi truck, a coke truck. We have a beer truck before Budweiser and Heineken and tiger. So that's pretty bad ass. I guess it's something that we, you know, I mean, you know, they're gonna see it and they're gonna be like, oh we are, we're going to have a truck.

Speaker 2: 39:01

Well I guess food trucks are so popular in the u s right. Like, and then something that's not done here. Not even really thought about it being done here. But I mean that could be the next big thing here. Right. Instead of more physical restaurants, the rents are going up, like you're saying. Maybe that will be the next thing we see in Saigon is more of the food truck scene.

Speaker 3: 39:20

Yeah. And we're already starting to see a lot of'em, a lot of the trends that have happened in the u s or country as it grows here. Things like, uh, I don't know if you've heard of a dark kitchen. A dark kitchen is a concept that you launch a concept and you don't even have a location. So like an example of it exactly. So you can understand it better is um, um, mad houses a restaurant in district two and for delivery only if they have a med burger, there is no locate, you can't order a mad burger at Madhouse restaurant. It's just some are ways to increase revenue as restaurants. We'll start a second concept and grow it. And if in delivery only in, in, if you grow it and you prove the concept, then you can find a location because you already got the revenue and boom, well,

Speaker 2: 40:14

[inaudible] was with them, them Lee, I don't know if you knew how she studied psigen eater and they had the Sag Anita, which is a closed door restaurants who, she does it from a home and invites people in and it's, um, it's so it's not open all the time. It's kind of like my end. I don't if it's invite only, but it's only infrequently and it's a fusion of Mexican and Vietnamese food. So she's from Texas, Vietnamese parents that left the enamel set within in Texas and she's coming back here. So she's influenced by Mexican food and Vietnamese. Good. And we were just talking about how they kind of compliment each other and instead of her starting out with like a bricks and mortar or restaurant, she started off with like at home and she said, you know, in the beginning she's like, I didn't even think somebody would pay me for my food, you know. So it was kind of like, oh, see what happens. And I think the first one she did was just like 20 people and then it grew and it grew. And um, that's great.

Speaker 3: 41:05

Interesting. But, um, yeah, those, those, those kinds of things like food trucks and dark kitchens, you know, with, you know, ex-pats doing business here, they're bringing all that stuff. And um, uh, I think we're going to be, we'll be launching some concepts in a very similar way that[inaudible] uses really right, that we, we, we, we like to be the first, and I will say that it's, it, it never gets old. It, we don't, why don't we, we don't want to be the first to suck. That's not what I mean, but it, it's, uh, yeah, it's, that's what's fun about doing business here in Vietnam. There's a lot of things that are untouched though, and you can have a go at them. Come on a bit. For you, judge, what's the biggest changes you've noticed?

Speaker 4: 41:58

I have mark pretty much pinpointed what I would, I would is, uh, let's say I'm at the skyline. I, where I live in district two and toady and I can see the landmark 81 tower would just two years ago that wasn't there at all in three years ago, a year before that, the buildings surrounding it, we're almost largely not there, mostly not there. Um, to team by the tunnel. That was a gravel road, uh, the highway in between a trend now in between the two highways that was gravel. I think they would probably just ripping it up at the time. I'm sure it was paved at some point before that, but it was, they widen just the, the rapidity with which, um, things have progressed. Um, but I, I would also say the, the I F I, I don't know. I would, I have nothing research, but I would say cars, presence of cars. When I first came here, uh, just a lot less cars and now just, I believe that the taxation on importing vehicles has been relaxed or maybe nullified and positive that I go to before there was a hundred percent tax on importing a car, which meant it was almost new costs, you know, and I think it was three of five years ago, they just took it away and now it's just,

Speaker 3: 43:19

yeah, when I, when I, when I got here, Josh, that exact thing was just happening. Um, I met my wife the first month I was here, um, took me awhile to get smart enough to ask her out and start dating her. But, um, I remember her telling me when I first met her in first couple of dates and we were talking, she's like, yeah, you know, um, the, the first relaxed the laws and the on the, on the cars, the taxes on the cars, it was the Asian group that, you know, these six nations don't pay any taxes. Car's coming from Japan and all that. We're all included. And what she told me back then, and she's like, yeah, if you see a a Toyota Corolla that's 10 years old and they're, they're to keep driving it because they paid$100,000 to get that car in this country, it's, there is no cheap car. I mean, if you had any car, you, you had a lot of money and now you can, you can buy cars for under$20,000 and it's reasonable for middle-class people. And Yeah. Now, now you see the long lines of cars at rush hour and you also see a lot of Nice cars as well. Oh yeah. Play on really nice

Speaker 2: 44:26

cows. I was blown away. I went to Cambodia to Phnom Penh one time and I couldn't believe the Nice cars that we're driving down the street. I was like this, I thought this was like a one of the poorest countries in the world, which it is. But at the same time I was like, how will go like, you know, asking mom's driving down the street and

Speaker 3: 44:42

do I have money? I have a mountain of it. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:44

Yeah. And then that's a problem worldwide is inequality. Right. Um, I think the, the crazy thing about this time right now in Saigon and what's really exciting as far as being from the west straight to where we are from, the infrastructure was all built bill hundred years ago, 50 years ago, subway system, three way lines. Like we didn't see any of that. Like it was all there, the streets were there, the street lights were all there. And then now we're living out Italian. Well, you know, it's developing and we are seeing that like the subway system is literally being built right now. Like I've seen the subway bridge being connected over the river. You know, that's something that would have, uh, four fathers would have seen the New York subway system or the London Underground or they've seen that being built. We're seeing that now and that's, I just think it's a really exciting time to, cause not many people will get to live through that change. Like just last week somebody showed me a picture of the ferry. I didn't even know. There used to be a ferry that went across the Saigon River between like e two and d one and it's filled with motorbikes. So all the motorbikes with tile on the ferry ferry goes across. They pile off a pile. And then when did the tunnel get built? Like three, four or five years ago. Like not very long ago.

Speaker 3: 45:55

More than five or six maybe. It was a little more than it was. I drove on the tunnel in 2012 when I was in town for my buddy's wedding and it had just opened, he would say, he drove me through and on the back of his motorbike to show me like, oh, this is cool. When did this? He goes, oh, he used to have to go all the way around. He goes, now you can just take the tunnel. There was the Saigon Bridge, the big one to going over to district two. That was the first big bridge that went up. It was a smaller bridge that, you know, the ships needed to pass by. So for a lot of years it was fairies, you know?

Speaker 2: 46:29

And so, yeah, that's what I think is that kind of snapshot and telling me, cause if you've got to call limper or any other bank calls, you know, they, there's, they have more developed, right? Like, but we're hearing it.

Speaker 3: 46:40

It's really cool. They actually do you know Chris Pianist, he's, he's been a regular customer of ours. He's craft beer lover and he's an artist. He's an excellent artist too. He has a whole line of paintings that are these, like if you see him, we'd know of that Saigon, the time that I was there because it's like half built bridges with green construction fence and it's impressionist. So it's, it's a really cool, I want to get my hands on some of his paintings, but it might be a good podcast for it. And he's the guy that's in district seven and he's an incredible artist and yeah, he captured that whole thing. You're just talking about the bridges going up. And that is a cool, that'd be interesting. Yeah. Put me in touch with him. Yeah. But it's also a cool thing that we're right now I agree with you. So talking about aunt Waldo, the offer can be a craft cause that's been a bit controversial, hasn't, no, I think I saw a little bit of alarm rings online about, well there was, we like, like I said, we've always liked to be a little edgy and have fun. Mostly that's our intention. It's not to, not to start a controversy. We, we like to have fun and then sometimes if we push it too far and that one we did, but um, it wasn't intentional. We, they painted a mural at this B a craft and it was uh, Tim talk to an artist and he said, you know, all the other guys have the mock brewery, the grain going in the, this is the hops in the water and almost every tasting room or even around the u s that that's a very common thing to put up. So you thought, wouldn't it be fun? The man is the brewery and what he's, and it was very crazy kind of surrealist painting of this man turning into salt. The man himself was a brewery and the drink was coming out and there was an on the last wall, the end of the mural, there's these two really weird looking ladies that are barely, barely covered at all. You know, it's very cartoony. But, and in the, the crotch of the One lady that was like dripping with like, like, and if that, and we had had a few comments and we didn't tell the artists to go that far, he just did it. And then we're like, oh, okay. So we just kind of respected the artists' work as it was a little more graphic than we thought it was going to be. But, um, and a couple of people comment in mostly, you know, ex-pats who, you know, that's looked down on in the, in the West, you know, and that, that's very good too. It is and it's not nice and whatever. And after a couple of comments who are like, yeah, but you know, and then our staff, which our marketing staff was, took a picture of a beer with some foam on the top of it right underneath that section of the mural. And it looked like, cause it was what was dripping looked like it was, was filling the glass. And that went up on our Facebook page. And then some good friends of ours said, hey guys, we love your edginess and this too far, man. Now I wouldn't want my kid to see that and you gotta keep it real. And we agreed and so much so that all the people that have talked to us, we contacted him and said, hey, we, we just painted over the end of the mural. We still kept the whole artwork. Just took away that little bit in that wall gray and said thanks. You know, but that was exactly, you know, we like to be irreverent, but respectfully a reference, you know, poke fun, you know, uh, make fun of the status quo and not, not make fun of or offend someone. So that's the end of the day. It's easy to cross that line nowadays, you know, w when you have the right intentions, but you know,

Speaker 2: 50:29

I think the main thing, and that is how you react, right? I don't think it's what you actually do. It's how you react and if you take it well, as long as you're respectful in your answer, you can. You don't need to react and say, okay, we're going to take it down, but as long as you're respectful in your answer

Speaker 3: 50:42

and we didn't take it down the first couple of times someone had a problem with or we just say that was the artists. We told them what we wanted and that's what the artists did and we were just respecting the artists, but then when our staff did that, we didn't ask them to he, but he's been working with us and he knows, you know, he likes to have fun with stuff, you know, like, hey mark, take off all your clothes. You know, what are we doing? Well, we're going to put you in a pool with beer, cat underwear and we're going to sell cans of beer. I'm like, okay.

Speaker 2: 51:10

I don't think we fully explained that.[inaudible] when I said about like I want to call the severe what happened for that

Speaker 3: 51:16

listeners, I'll go back to the finishing that story. And we did get off track I think when we ordered them.

Speaker 2: 51:20

Yeah, I think, yeah.

Speaker 3: 51:22

Um, so we did the v I talked about the, uh, the via jet scandals that we poked fun of and that we got a lot of, a lot of laughs and all that, a lot of coverage. So then, um, it was just our marketing guys a choice. He's like, Hey, can you come over and do the photo shoot? We're going to do it at Tim's house. And I'm like, oh, why don't we do it in the restaurant? I mean, he's like, oh wait, Tim didn't want to do it in the restaurant. He doesn't want to offend anyone. I'm like, okay, well I'll see you over there. What time you come over here this time? And, uh, it was like 6:00 PM on a weeknight and here's a black screen and the lighting and a baby pool and a little rubber ducky and, okay, what are we doing? He's like, take off your clothes. You didn't know these people? I had no, I just, I, I've been in lots of photo shoots and commercials and TV shows. I'm, I'm used to this as part of my routine is okay, we're doing some more marketing and I'm the barbecue guy of the company, so I expect it. I didn't expect to sell cans of beer for via craft naked in a pool with beer cans, barely covering anything. But um, it was pretty funny though because we, we're, we're, we have, we have some really KPIs that are it really hard to hit and one of them is increasing the volume of beer we sell this year and canned sales. Everything. We, we look at everything in how do we boost it? And our marketing guy thought that me and a pool floating in a little baby pool out in a pool, uh, with bare cat underwear. It would sell cans of beer. Aye. I went along with it. They, I didn't know they were going to put up, you know, two meter murals of me in front of every, all eight restaurants. But they did, you can see it from across the river. And some of my, some of my coworkers are like, David, man, it's a little much. And I'm like, ah, but I think we put those signs up on a, on a third and they're also on every table and a little topper and posters on every wall. I mean, it was really overdone. And, um, our beer sales went, I don't know the exact number, but if we were selling 30 cans of beer at all locations on that Thursday, they went on the tables that Thursday night, that Friday and that Saturday and that Sunday right after it, cause it was buy five cans, get one free promotion. Um, our cans sales went up to like 90 cans of beer, you know, like more than tripled for that first weekend. And I'm like, okay, if the marketing guy has, I just have to believe he knows what he's doing. But, um, yeah, my wife was a little shocked on that one. She's like, why did you do that? And I'm like, they asked me to, it's my job. So

Speaker 2: 54:12

it's funny the way of describing it though, cause when you go into the studio or whatever, you just don't picture like to me a balance everywhere. Table Top was like this picture being everywhere, you know?[inaudible] just going in, doing some market like

Speaker 3: 54:25

well, and then it's, you know, it's on our Facebook page, which my family and friends back. It's funny, I visited in May and that promotion was already out and buddy Bob that I worked with at the car dealership for years. Um,

Speaker 4: 54:42

yeah,

Speaker 3: 54:42

all, all the marketing put together and he's like, what are you going to do next? He's like, you're like the freaking Chris Farley of Vietnam now. It's, he goes, I just cracked up sometimes when I see your guys' next video or next shooting. And it's like, I don't know. It actually makes it quite fun to be honest. Uh, and believe it or not, I seem to have a lot of our Vietnamese female staff want to rub my belly now, so,

Speaker 2: 55:12

oh, something good. Something good came of it then my wife wouldn't agree with that. Yeah. But no, I mean they're just, they think it's funny. Yeah. So let's talk about your podcast and so we haven't even got to your podcast. So tell me, I'm like, how did you guys meet and how did the podcast come with let's, let's hear from Josh. Okay, sure. Yeah, it's a, we, we, um, first met

Speaker 4: 55:36

and uh, around February, January last year. And, uh, like mark was saying earlier, we, we played, uh, just started playing darts. And then as wasn't where you were at, you asked where you invited?

Speaker 3: 55:49

We were, no, I asked to join. We ended up on the same dart team at the vet Shaggy's bar and which we would practice or play, but I'll, I'll let Josh finish. I

Speaker 4: 56:00

think we have a particularly a childish sense of humor. Uh, you know, the adult adult boys, um, we would drink good beer together and also crappy beer and play darts and have a great time and we had very senses of humor. You like, we enjoy similar activities.

Speaker 3: 56:24

Finish each other's sentences. Oh there he goes again. You guys. Oh, okay.

Speaker 4: 56:29

It's like I just flutter in my heart every day and we just do, we just, I think I had mentioned I wanted to do a podcast at some point and mark came the way I remember it, I'm, I I, I'm sure there's a little fuzzy, but mark came in one night and we were there putting down some tigers and playing darts and having a good time as we were do many nights a week and he's just kind of like half tournament is like sexy meat talks and then it just like not, I remember distinctly you didn't say anything else and was just like, go on. What does this mean? Explain yourself a little bit. And he's like, let's, let's do the top thing. Let's do the podcast. And

Speaker 3: 57:16

it taught me thing. I don't think you said talk[inaudible] that's what came out of my head when Josh um, told me about podcasts that I'm like, what is a podcast anyways? I'm like[inaudible] like Josh was like, I'm sure you've watched a podcast. Have you ever watched an episode of Youtube? And then like, okay. And I figured out, oh, I watch hot ones. I know what that is. And then he goes to the, but podcasts can be just audio, they can be video, they can be on many platforms. But, and then, um, it's funny that our very first interview ended up being Fred Fred and has been doing podcasts for years. And I had been following him and watching his little clips, but he didn't have like a weekly, he just, whenever he had a big beer event or a beer judging or you know, he was traveling all around the world with craft beer because that's how plugged into it he was. And then I, I realized like, then that's when I said to him, I was like, what kind of podcast would I want to do? It's like, I quite enjoyed some of these TV shows, talking about food and telling stories. And it took us a little while to develop water. Podcast was going to be, but Josh Pendo a little header that's on our podcast page now, just saying an inside look at the food and beverage beverage in Southeast Asia. Yeah, we just wanted to tell the stories. Um, um, like we're telling our stories now, but you know, we have chefs, we have butchers, we have brewers. I mean anything. Um, and you know, we also plan to do a podcast with you, um, coming on an episode of sexy meet talks. So, but, and well we will be asking you a lot of things related to food and beverage, you know. But um, yeah, that's really how it all developed. Just started the conversation, blamed darts and

Speaker 4: 59:03

some of the early energy too, which was that, that's when we knew what we were doing was something fun because, uh, we, we were both kind of like cutting each other off to try and just get the ideas out. It's really cool. We get to this, that, that, and um, mark is a, a wonderfully creative person as always. It's really fun to just bounce ideas off of. And, uh, we early on it was just like a giddy kind of energy, which any good projects should have. Uh, some, some projects, uh, you know, may lack that. I'm not saying that that makes a bad project, but like I guess that's how, you know, you're doing something that you got passion for because I was thinking about it all the time and it did take us a while to get it going. But it was mostly, yeah, mark was opening many different locations and I do work full time. Um, so it took a, took a bit of time to get off the ground, but um, uh, it was that, that, that, you know, I'm sure some of the early podcasts with this, I'm sure it felt very similar. You like, you just excited to be just getting, getting that thing on tape, getting those conversations, uh, out of people's mouths and like, and then you can just further the conversation. And that was exciting. Cause I actually, I, I want to do a podcast since I first got here. Um, but I never met anyone who I thought, uh, I clicked well enough with to do, but I knew I didn't want to do with myself because I'm a lazy.

Speaker 3: 1:00:41

Yeah, it's been fun. It's, it's also been fun, like figuring out how it all comes together. I mean, um, I was mentioning that to, uh, this guy Oliver who's, um,

Speaker 4: 1:00:55

okay.

Speaker 3: 1:00:56

Oliver, what's his last name? What I forget is it woods? I think it might be, oh yeah, all eighth New Zealand doe. Yeah. Ali. So, um, he, we hired him, uh, at our barbecue restaurant, well, our whole company to do our website and web utilization and he's really good at that kind of stuff. That's his, his area of expertise. And I was at the craft beer festival having a beers with them and I'm like, yeah, me and Josh had started this podcast. We've already recorded our first few interviews and, and then he jumped in, he's like, Oh, you do this, do this. And Cause I, I, I've started a few podcasts and he kinda like, then me and Josh are having beers with[inaudible] and all of a sudden he's telling us how to take a look at our Facebook and he's setting it up for us. And he's like, can you make me an admin so I can jump in and I, I'll get you, I'll make you guys famous. He's not, he listens to, to this podcast. What's up Oliver Viking off with to help me. Me Famous. Yeah. And I want to know, honestly, I'm astonished. All right. So, um, yeah, but it's, so that's also something cool about the ex pat scene here and, uh, we're, uh, we're a signal boosting each other. We both know Oliver Oliver is offering to help with, you know, and also, uh, we got Murban who's done photos for us and video. Um, and I, there's other guys are we, we have a friend of ours, Jason, who's a regular Chegg. He's, uh, he's an, he's an excellent artist and animator. He's doing our logos and it's all like passion projects. You know, like as soon as if we ever do get sponsors and get some money, we're going to be happy to reciprocate with these people that are, yeah, putting us on the map for the first time.

Speaker 5: 1:02:42

Interesting. Have you joined any like podcast groups on Facebook to like help while it can become part? Have you done any of that? Like any resets like that? Not Group session, not, I'm sure they exist. I know there's a few that, how can you leave that? One of the things that people often ask is, you know, how do I monetize? You know, I'm looking, I have to do, I get a sponsor and I'm like, you haven't even done your first episode yet. Like, I never go into this guess pawns, Hillary. I don't even, I just want to understand this as a passion project for a hobby. Like,

Speaker 3: 1:03:11

but you know, I think for me and I, I think also Josh is, it's, it's fun to tell these stories to people, you know, we're living here and experiencing it and what better way to share it then with a podcast, you know? Um, and the more people we reach, the, the, the more I want to do it. You know, the, the, it's like, and I don't mean having a commercial for, we have talked about my restaurants a lot, but we've also told our story of who we are so the listeners know where we're coming from. But you know, I just, I do build myself as a meat expert and specialists. That's, that's what I do. And I'm a brewer of 20 years and a huge part of the craft beer scene. So I very much am connected directly. It's, it's my life's work. It's my passion is the food and Bev in the city and Josh, the journalistic side, it just, we, we seem to have all the parts to make what I think is really interesting and fun content and we have a lot of access to the whole industry because of the people. I know. My peers, you know, the, the greatest chefs in the city. I know I've, I've had beers with them, we've shared stories and we share suppliers and we tell each other how to help each other out. And that's,

Speaker 5: 1:04:29

and a big things to you for reaching out to us. That was good. You, you message us and very quickly said, set this up, which was, uh, again, that's just an exemplary of the scene that this is, this is why I stayed out here. It was why so many people stay out here. And, and just so it's clear for the listeners where this is one side, we're going to do a part two, I don't know if we said that up. Not yet. So you can explain. Well, so I said at the beginning we did do a crossover episode. So this is part one video, which is, so part one is 7 million bikes. So we're interviewing in my arena, which is my front room. And then you want to explain about pop to then we'll part two. You, we just, we wanted to go through ours are standards set a

Speaker 4: 1:05:12

podcast with you, um, which is highly improvised, but would you have a, a group of questions that we do like to ask and uh, um, it'll be an extension of what we're talking about today really. And also good that, uh, thank you for having us on and we get to have you on and do a couple of things we like to do with our guests. So I guess we'll switch rule[inaudible] right now. I was going to ask you all that soon. Right now I would say that you, on the interview you said, have you found this different to being, to doing your own podcast? Yup, sure. This is, this is a, uh, a joy and a pleasure. I got pins and needles. Um, right when you were introducing us I was like, oh wait, this is the first time this has happened. And it was the, that was, that was a cool feeling. So, um, yeah I love attention. It's very[inaudible] right now we're on a podcast podcast talking about podcasts. Like it's a, it's also biological phenomenon cause she is so

Speaker 3: 1:06:16

well, um, what's different is, and I think what will be different for listeners and each show is where I'm being interviewed as a podcaster, but also what am I doing here? Cause that's the content you like to look for. And, uh, I, um, yeah, this is the first time I've ever been interviewed as a podcaster. So this is an exclusive, well, I was gonna ask, cause I didn't get this pot. What was your background in Chicago or that suburb of Chicago? So the, before Vietnam and what got me into what got me into Vietnam was my, my, my barbecue and my brewing. Um, I was brought over here to make beer and barbecue for Vietnamese. That was it. How I got to that point in Chicago was, um, first job was a pizza kitchen. Um, uh, 15 years old, worked there just two and a half years. It seems like a lifetime cause it's such good memories. I'm super busy. Pizza kitchen. I mean you, you, you clocked in at 5:00 PM and you threw down here and a handful of Raw Italian sausage at 1230 at night. And it feels like the whole thing was a blur and flew by in a minute. Um, and I loved it. I, I didn't stop working pizza kitchens. I wanted to have my own pizza restaurant. Um, by the time I was 21. Um, yeah, I, uh, my dad talked about taking a loan out on his house to help me get into my first restaurant and I, I, I was terrified of it and I was like, I'm, I'll, I'll ruin, I'll ruin my dad's life if I don't succeed. So it was just too much money and I couldn't get in the door. So, um, I was about 22 or 23 years old. Um, I got a job at a Chevy dealership. Initially it was driving, driving a truck parts truck and then eventually made it into the parts department and online sales. And the web was brand new and I knew a little more than, than everyone else in the, in that parts department. But it, it, uh, I carved out a cool, cool job. I some parts on Ebay and setting up an Ebay store from just, I don't know, it was a great nine to five job I liked. I liked working with the guys, but it didn't quite pay all the bills all of a sudden, a very little middle-class level. But I started making frozen pizzas. Me and my cousin teamed up. We had shrink wrap machines and we'd make sometimes over two, 300 pizzas a month in solid them at eight bucks a piece. Uh, I, my, my middle class income jumped up to the, uh, a comfortable level. I had my own house, I had my own car and paid my bills on time, could barely afford to save up enough money to take a trip to Vietnam. And that, that, that's, that's where it led. Um, all those years of cooking, that passion never died. Um, I had three Weber grills, a big Texas smoker in my backyard, and I would, uh, every weekend if I wasn't getting paid to do a party or an event of some kind, I would still be in my backyard, lighten it, try new things. I just, and I, a lot of times I do it, I barely even eat it. You know, I'd, I'd make up beef ribs and this, this and this, and then on Monday I'd come into work and be like, here, here, Bobby or her guys try this. What's that? Oh, this is the beef rib, this is what the, this kind of sauce. And it just, the passion was there and I had a lot of people telling me, why, what are you working at a car dealership for? Why aren't you doing this? I'm like, I haven't really had the opportunity so that, that was the pre lead up when someone asked me, I had to take it seriously because there was the first opportunity, like I could really have my own restaurant. Holy Crap. You know, the opportunity for me, the American, the American dream was possible in Vietnam. So, and yeah, nine store, nine restaurant, strong in a beer truck. Even after, after I, I arrived. I, um, okay. The rest started did while right away. Um, I, I didn't really think it through. I'm like, you know, you know, I, I told myself when I was coming over, I'm like, what? You know, I asked myself, what happens if I don't do this? And you know, I'm like, if I do do it, if it fails, I can always do what I'm doing right now. I didn't hate my life. I just had the opportunity and I go, but if I don't do it, nothing happens. And I'll never know. And I'm like, that's a no brainer, you know? And it was that, that was the thought process. But even after the restaurant was open, I'd sometimes I'd wake up, you know, I gotta go to the restaurant at 10 o'clock and open up. We open at four. We back then I was the one opening the restaurant. It was, we only had like 15 employees, you know, now we've got close to 400. Um, I remember five months after I was here and the restaurant was busy and I was making money. I was paying myself and I was, I, I loved, and I loved the life here, but I'd still wake up and say, well, why am I here? What did I do? Where's my house? You know, where's my life? And it was just kind of dawning on me that like, this is it. And I, you know, I'm married to a Vietnamese woman and I have a Vietnamese family here now, and my half of my life will always be in Vietnam. I mean, there is no exit plan there. There's just, I guess what's next?

Speaker 2: 1:12:01

My wife and I still do it on almost a weekly, maybe even daily basis where like we live in Vietnam. How do you, how do we, like we have a dog, like what is going on? Like I guess maybe similar to your family. Like we have a family here too.

Speaker 3: 1:12:17

Yes. I always think of that exact point when I listened to what's the talking heads song? Yeah. Once in a lifetime into that exact realization like this is really my life, you know, same as it ever was. The same as it ever was. Didn't that song to me when I hear those lyrics that just telling that story and I'm like,

Speaker 2: 1:12:35

Yup. Yeah. This is the last set of questions for season one. I'm thinking of changing them for season two. We've got 10 sets of answers for if anyone has any idea, any thoughts on new questions I can ask people or if you guys do let me know for season two, but season one, we'll do it quick as you can. Top three Vietnamese foods. Josh, uh, bonded, you know, Lemon Cha and me. Mine would be pretty similar. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:13:00

There's one that I really, really like that is very specific and it's that total hung noodle place. Uh, I'm trying hung down. It's a phone town noodle. Um, it's a pork rib broth. Um, and you choose between pork balls, dumplings and shrimp. I always get the, the, the, the dumpling is like the greasy bunch child pork inside it and in the shrimp and you can get that bowl of noodles, um, only at that place. It's, you know, it's their own unique soup. Uh, that's one of my favorites. I Love Carlo, if you've ever been a Hawaiian, that's my, my all time favorite noodle dish in Vietnam. Um, and then I'm a big fan of Boco because it, to me it's, it's, it's, it's home comfort food like beef stew, but it's, it's the Vietnam version. It has that in eastern those unique spices to it. So

Speaker 2: 1:13:56

I just have you heard us talk about this. This has come up actually a couple of times on the podcast in the past because a, I think it was with Mischa's episode cause I was talking to Michelle and seeing how I'd had bought for breakfast that

Speaker 5: 1:14:06

day. I was like, I just had beef stew for breakfast like you about cooling that, which just seems so surreal. Irrelevant.

Speaker 3: 1:14:14

My first breakfast in Vietnam was fish cake. I was six in the morning before going on a photo shoot with my friend Jake in Denang. Um, that wasn't my all time favorite cause I didn't really care for it for breakfast that much. But I did have it for breakfast that day and Jake was telling me this is a very common Vietnamese breakfast was just fish caking all the mash in the fish up and cut it into little strips them eaten. What am I eating? Fishcake okay. It tasted just fine, but it was an odd breakfast.

Speaker 2: 1:14:44

Well that's the last episode I had with uh, with um, the, every talked a bit about collagen three and um, yeah, just one of my favorites. Can name a few more, but always you go oh deacon way. Right. So, uh, Josh know when nobody can eliminate vietcraft from this

Speaker 5: 1:14:59

question. What's your favorite beer and favorite bar? Favorite beer? Uh, um, I, I've thought I've thought long about this. I'm moody so I, I changed that. But my go to at the moment is east-west, uh, uh, Far East IPA and your favorite bar? Uh, that'd be fad. Shaggy's alright, well we'll give you, you can tell us your favorite beer craft beer since you make it and then your favorite.

Speaker 2: 1:15:23

No, like my kids. Everyone's got fever kid. I said I don't know what other kids though. Yeah,

Speaker 3: 1:15:33

this is a really tough one, but I would, I would have to say maybe because there's, I mean it's one of the beers I'm most proud of too. Um, and it was the first beer craft beer is our dunk Choctaw pill, Paleo. Um, it's not the one I drink the most cause it's a little higher in alcohol, but that's where it all started. And actually that recipe was one of the first uh, Paleo oils I ever made in homebrewing 18 years ago. That was the first grain all-grain beer that I ever made was that recipe. And I liked it so much that I never, all the different styles I learned how to brew. I never changed it. And like I just love how that turned out. That with that Greenville and that hop content and yeah. So,

Speaker 5: 1:16:15

so favorite non be a craft beer and favorite non-beer craft bar.

Speaker 3: 1:16:21

Okay. A non beer craft bar. Oh that's called[inaudible].

Speaker 2: 1:16:25

Yeah. No. Um

Speaker 3: 1:16:30

Ah God I'm you know what as a favor to all of the craft beer guys out there, cause I love all their establishments. I'll just say fat Shaggy's cause that's my home, my hometown dive bar in district two and it's probably where I spend more, more time at that bar than any, so that shout out to Paul and tongue with[inaudible]

Speaker 5: 1:16:50

and then so your favorite non be a craft beer can be any beer, doesn't have to be a craft beer. Favorite beer?

Speaker 3: 1:16:59

No, I, I'll, any of my favorite beers is, it's going to be a craft beer. I can, I can say, um, lately, um, the, the Pale ill from, uh, east west is a very good one. It, uh, very much reminds me of just like a good old Sierra Nevada. It's an a nice, happy, uh, easy drinking Paleo also. Yeah. The, I forgot the nickname of that one is[inaudible].

Speaker 5: 1:17:25

Oh, are you straight? You said it.[inaudible] IPA. Yeah, that's, that's the Turquoise label darker. Yeah, that's the green labeled one there. Their Paleo is really nice. Is it just called failure? I don't think it has a name. It doesn't have a name. I can't remember. It doesn't matter. Um, where's your favorite detain place to drink a coffee? You can choose the junior to really enjoy it. Agnes cafe, although recently I haven't been there and I haven't been there recently, but Agnes cafe or really any, any place downtown with plastic stools and street access. Just walk. Just, I'm a people watcher so well

Speaker 3: 1:18:08

and um, I would say, and this is brand new for me, but I absolutely Tonya it, it's my honest opinion. I really enjoy wherever our new beer truck is parked in the daytime. We did, uh, our first ever launch. Uh, I felt like I was in the parking lot of a grateful dead show, you know, standing around with people drinking next to a truck. Um, it's just a cool feeling, you know, and Vietnam hasn't had that. And uh, I know it's not fair because it's my own business, but I'm being very honest. It's a lot of fun. Last night we were sitting outside on the tables in a construction site where we had the truck parked in it. I just, I really enjoy it.

Speaker 5: 1:18:48

No, I think it's fair enough. And so, and so, and you've had this question before, why do you choose to stay in Saigon? Why not go back home? You don't, you know, you've got, that's what the, the reason that this question is, we are experts. We can do that, right? Maybe not you, you've got family know about Josh. Why, why do you stay the community? And I honestly feel I love my family back home and I feel that I've gained family out here. Uh, I have some very close, wonderful friends and keep meeting new people at a time. Like yourself and there's, it's the community.

Speaker 3: 1:19:23

Yeah. Um, yeah. The reason why I stay, it's the more time that goes by in the more, the more I, I guess accomplish and my wife and her family here now. Um, it just seems like the more I, the more I get, the more I want Vietnam in general. Um, I, I I realized that over the last year or two that I'm like some part of my life is going to be in Vietnam. Even if I, if I make it to seven years old, I'm going to be splitting time between here and home and back in Chicago. What one thing would you

Speaker 4: 1:20:02

change? Folks have gone similarly to like Manhattan or big cities? I would restrict car access to like district one and I I respect, um, and I totally understand when the Vietnamese want to join their, their vision of the, I guess the rest of the world and have a car and I get to show that off. I get that I'm not that type of person myself, but I do that. I don't think there's anything really wrong with it, but currently the infrastructure doesn't really support that I do like motorbikes and you know, I think that if they would just reduce the, you know, certain areas and make certain streets one way, I would just, I would just adjust traffic.

Speaker 3: 1:20:45

Oh, I can agree with improved the traffic. That's probably one of the most dangerous things. I was actually in a, but not too minor because I broke six bones, but um, in February and it was just daytime. It wasn't because I was, I have overserved myself and caused problems wa ways back, years back. But that was actually, I was at work. I was driving over to one of my restaurants and, um, a lady just turned right in front of me with no helmet on it. And yeah, I was forced to choose between running her over or ditching the bike and then ditching the bike is what I did and just broke some ribs. But yeah, I, I'd agree with Josh that that is probably the biggest concern and when people are visiting this country, I was always like, you get used to it, but it is, is a whole lot of control. It's what's the most misunderstood thing? Um, well for me, how it occurs is, um, a lot of my family back home, they don't understand. Um, they, my mom in particular, she's, she's like, did they have phones? You know, she, she'll, she'll ask like, I'm like, mom, there's 10 million people in this city. They have, they have high rises. They do. Um, but even like the guys I work with, you know, they're asking these really, I'm like, yes, they have internet. Yes, we have smart phones. Yes, we have internet. You know, I think what's misunderstood is, um, the Vietnamese have a lot of freedoms and ex-pats working here. I have a lot of freedoms that they don't have back home. And uh, I think that's very much true. I, I, I, yeah, I can't vote for who's in power and it's a one party system and you've got to accept what they say, but your personal freedoms, you actually have more of them here. And I think of a lot of people misunderstand that, uh, with never coming here, you know, or, or experiencing it.

Speaker 4: 1:22:52

Josh, I completely agree. I think that the is a contrast between

Speaker 5: 1:23:00

what a lot of people, especially particularly in America. I think because of the American war we would call the Vietnam War. Um, there's just this general misconception with like, uh, uh, how Vietnamese view America and even today, even though relations, I've been normalized for more than two decades at this point.

Speaker 6: 1:23:20

Um,

Speaker 5: 1:23:22

yeah. And I fully read mark. I mean, quick ends out fever, pleased to get out of town.

Speaker 3: 1:23:28

I guess I'll say Sapa. I just went there for the first time and I wasn't able to, it was just business. But what I saw, I am going to take my wife there and next time I get out of town and it is just absolutely beautiful. Beautiful. Josh.

Speaker 5: 1:23:44

Uh, I really enjoyed the walk. Yeah. The island. Uh, just being a little part in that slice of life. Yeah. So final question. Um, what advice Josh possible would you give to somebody who's thinking of taking that leap and coming to moving and Saigon, which from our conversation and others, it feels like nobody really makes that decision to come and live here. People come to visit, will they come to for a month or two and then suddenly it becomes their life. But if someone's thinking of living in Saigon, what advice would you give them? Uh, if you're, if you're a young n say under 30, uh, just do it. Come off for a year. Try to, uh, if you're someone over 30, do it, come for a year, try it out. I think that's our beer. Josh scan a phone call, right as we're about to finish. And Mark has to leave our bills have arrived. Mom, you're going to finish all the interview. What one piece of advice would you give to somebody who's thinking of moving here?

Speaker 3: 1:24:40

Um, my advice would be I'm thinking of moving here, right? Relocating. Yeah. Um, if you have any, any opportunity to do something here, jump on it. Because, um, I, I think grow up, me growing up and as an American, a lot of times people say what opportunity knocks. It's always the, you know, you, you jump on it, but then there's always buyer beware. You know, wait, what are they really selling me? You know, and you have that uncertainty. Um, I had it about coming out here and opening a restaurant. A lot of the things we said in this interview, there is a lot opportunity here. So if you, if you have an opportunity to come come to Asia and you're thinking about it, um, just ask yourself, uh, what happens if I don't do it? And then to me when I said nothing happens, if I don't do this, it gave me the courage and the strength to get out there and give it a try.

Speaker 5: 1:25:43

So that's a great, that's a great piece of advice. I've liked it. Hearing the answers to these questions and because some of the wisdom that has come out has been really good enough. I think that's one of the best ones is what happens if you don't do it.

Speaker 3: 1:25:54

If it happens, you want nothing to keep happening, then just go on doing that. Yeah. Can you, if you're okay with nothing happening and you like the situation you're in then, then yeah, then you can live with that answer too.

Speaker 2: 1:26:06

So we're going to wrap up. This is, as I said, a crossover episode between seven movie and bakes and sexy meet talks or part two will be, um, the three of us again. But this time I think we're gonna be interviewing at be a craft. Right. And how we'll be on the other end, which will be strange for me. I guess I'm going to be the interview e

Speaker 3: 1:26:25

and we're going to ask you all about, uh, your perception of the food and beverage.

Speaker 2: 1:26:31

What is sexy mean? I'm looking forward to it. Um, so I think, um, to wrap up, this is the end of season one. I realized something just recently was I think the saying of a good interview or even a good podcast episode is always wanting more. And I found from in this episode, this interview included, I want to, I could talk for longer, you know, like we could talk for more and every, I think everyone I've interviewed throughout it and at the end I'm like, oh, I wish I had asked him that or I wish we talked more about this. Maybe we should do another episode. Then I can re ask them all these questions. So for me, I think that's the sign of a, of a good podcast, I guess, and a good interview with those. You want more from it. So I hope that the listeners get that feeling as well. Um, and I hope you've enjoyed, uh, this interview, this podcast and uh, the whole season. And so guys, thank you so much. Just quickly before we finish and tell me what's, what's next for you guys? What's happening? Well, we'll definitely be doing an episode with you in the future,

Speaker 3: 1:27:27

hopefully very soon. Our next episode coming up will be with Dave Bergen, who was a brewery. David burners brewed all over the world. Wow. Asia and in the United States. And uh, it was a really fun interview, so that's fantastic. That's next for us.

Speaker 2: 1:27:42

And then, uh, for a craft, what's on the horizon? So the ninth, the ninth a restaurant, isn't it?

Speaker 3: 1:27:47

Yeah, so like I said, we, we, we will, uh, we'll be announcing very soon, uh, the exact location and yeah, we're, we're, we're excited about the new new via craft come in. Uh, I think we in our company, Kwan[inaudible] owns both the aircraft and Quantico. Um, we have, uh, four, four new locations by the end of the year planned, so. Wow.

Speaker 2: 1:28:13

Awesome. Let's hope we hit it. So listen in for part two now. Where can people find if people are listening on this podcast, where can they find sex in talks or around part bean,

Speaker 3: 1:28:25

which is an app or a also a website which you can download from and were going to be on iTunes hopefully within a day or taker and apple podcasts and all that stuff. And also our Facebook page. We post a by weekly episodes every other week. Cool. Um, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:28:47

All right, so looking for part two, they are checking out. Guys, we're wrapping up. Thank you very much. You can also follow two part two coming onto Utah. Sounds good to be fun.

Speaker 1: 1:29:01

Well thank you for listening to the final episode,

Speaker 2: 1:29:05

season one, 7 million bikes or Saigon podcast. I hope you've enjoyed this show. I know that I have thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed talking to all of our guests and as I mentioned just at the end of that episode, um, every episode of always wanting to know and ask more. And so maybe in the future we'll have some guests back on. But for now I'm going to take a small break thinking of guests for season two. I'm already getting lots and lots of requests. I've been introduced to some really interesting people to right now I'm just trying to figure out what season two is going to look like and when I'm going to stop, but that should be the beginning of September would be the first episode of season two. In the meantime, listen to any episodes that you, you haven't had a chance to yet. Please send me any feedback. I do love heat from people. That's been one of the most rewarding things you can get me on Facebook or sevenmillionbikes@gmail.com as always a massive, massive thank you to Lewis, right for composing the theme music. I really don't think there's podcasts would be listened to as much if it wasn't for him, so thank you Lewis. Thank you Le Nguyen for the helping me design the cover up. That just looks amazing on all the platforms, whether it's Facebook and youtube, Instagram, you can get it on stitcher, apple podcast, Google, Google podcasts all over the Internet. So it's been fantastic to see as well. The podcast has been listened to all over the world, nearly every continent. Um, regular listeners, people giving feedback, it's actually like completely surpassed my soul, my expectations and my expectations were not very high at all. And so, um, it's really been amazing to see that people are enjoying it, sharing it, talking about it. And um, as somebody who does comedy and you see an instant reaction to what you're seeing, it's very strange to sit in record something and then put it out and then you have no idea what people are thinking. So when people do give feedback, it does mean a lot. It does help me understand, um, how it's all going. So it's great to hear when people do get in touch, did they all listening that they do enjoy it and if anyone's got any feedback, positive or negative of them, please let me know. As I said, I'd love to hear from you, but other than that, I hope you enjoyed that episode. And No, don't forget, go to sexy meat talks on Pod Bean, and you'll get part two of this episode where I will be interviewed by Josh and mark. And so I hope you enjoy that episode and I'll see you on sexy meet tox.

Speaker 1: 1:31:32

I'll just shout out[inaudible].