Esta Ricardo; Part 1 - The DragMother of GenderFunk, VietNams alternative Queer scene | S2 Ep 8

Esta Ricardo is a Drag Queen and GenderFunk performer and Founder/Mother of GenderFunk. He loves exploring Gender through workshops, performance and lots of talking!

Born in Birmingham he then lived in Manchester and London before studying Journalism in London. He then worked for the British Red Cross for 2 years and started performing in the radical arts festival scene in Europe. 

He has now lived in Saigon for 3 years.

We talk about the art of Drag, the Drag scenes in Saigon and Hanoi, sexuality, gender, inclusiveness, white, male privilege and a whole lot more!

Esta Ricardo is a funny, entertaining and fabulous guest!

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Transcript

spk_0:   0:11
today, my guest is a drag queen. He's a gender funk off. Former and founder is the mother of gender fun and the queer elective. And he also does a little bit teaching on this safe. Today. My guest is Estelle Ricardo. Thank you for coming on.

spk_1:   0:28
Allah, How are you today? I'm good.

spk_0:   0:30
I'm good. How's your day been so far?

spk_1:   0:33
I woke up in arrogant. So non existent will

spk_0:   0:36
just give the timing right now for people. Listen is to 35.

spk_1:   0:42
I lead a very unusual life.

spk_0:   0:46
What? Why? Woods? Unusual about your life?

spk_1:   0:49
Well, just how it's structured. I'm not a 9 to 5 girls, So Yelich drag queens were creatures of the night. Of course, everyone knows that on DH I My lifestyle is very all over the place in a way like I do a lot of work on the weekends, maybe working for 5 a.m. s. Of course, they sleep a little bit more in the day, but in general, I don't really get much sleep Well recently, I haven't. Anyway, I'm trying to re stabilise and get the balance. I just got back from the UK So I've been in the UK for three months. Fabulous. Actually, the N hs was very delicious and free Part of the reason I got quite ill, actually, from overworking on Jenna Funk like I had exhaustion and that little things s so it was great to get loads of free health care take of rest in bed on DH. Yeah, just It was super important to reconnect with where my performance Wait where it will start it like me performing and being agenda Former esa reconnecting with my beginnings on DH giving space for my ends like gender funk to continue without me and see that people can continue without me. So that was really cool. And just hanging out of my friends like a ll these mentors and inspirations the past like re inspire me and re mentored me and came back like bam. Let's be better. Let's cry.

spk_0:   2:16
How long has it been since you last came back? Two years

spk_1:   2:19
have changed much. Yeah. Yes. Like in a way like some of the people have changed, Of course that all of them have changed. I mean, I've changed radically, Like massively. Some people have changed even better. Like I love him. Even more on the connexions even stronger. Some people have changed, perhaps in ways that I don't like is much, but I still love wth um so yeah, but England still talking about Brexit on that has been bugging change, I swear I do know. Okay, I'll stop. Sorry. Drag queens a foul mouth. I

spk_0:   2:54
don't think there's many Children that listen to what? We're trying to keep it pissing. Yeah, Brexit. I mean, I feel so bad for people that live in the u D li. I'm so sick of it and I don't even live there. I have to do with When I was back in July. It just seems to be getting wass wass.

spk_1:   3:11
I left England because I was just sick of talking about Brexit a table. I was like, I can't do this anymore. I just kind of like I'll visit when you're all done with this. You have your bottle. Bullshit. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. Brexit is entitled to one bullshit. Yeah, Yeah,

spk_0:   3:29
I'm not moving on already so weary from the UK because your accent in the little bit of time I've been talking to you. I've picked up on an American accent on the Syrian. Obviously, it's a mix of everything.

spk_1:   3:44
Well, I am a man and woman of many colours and places. It's my colours. I mean, like like painting. Colour is not like skin colours well away. I'm a very white privilege guy. I'm owning that not only get a good way in a respectful way, you don't mean taking what's the word?

spk_0:   4:05
I know what you mean. I can't talk about this with Angie and put it with a friend. I'm awake, man as well. I'm a speedway man and I'm that far end of that spectrum. You're so privileged potentially,

spk_1:   4:15
you know, they feels weird to

spk_0:   4:17
see that you almost have to reorder. Because now that there is such a broad spectrum of people than we said, it also means that the people on the far end of it as well and I'm on that our end of it. So fuse Well, you have to. Then, like I mentioned to you before, we started on a bit of a you, like a bit of an older generation for me growing up, I was never a discussion. It was male and female bathrooms. There was almost actual bisexual was just coming into the equation. We didn't think about any of this. It was no having to be, like, Why must speak white meal thing? Is that that's what you mean by you?

spk_1:   4:53
Yeah. Like, um, yes. I mean, well, because what you have, Tio, what I'm very conscious off is that when you know I'm doing a drag form that takes references from a life different places on DH. There are, I think, several you have to be. I personally am very respectful, like with my dragon on things I will doing things I won't. So, just sometimes, of course, communication is a very confusing things sometimes. And sometimes I just explain what I mean by a statement because someone who's listening like, Oh, what do you mean? Like the colours, like as in like you're using drag to be different. Obviously, I'm not doing that. So I'm just touching base and being like, Hey, by the way, this is what I mean by that statement. But you are right about the American accent thing. It's It's very, very interesting. I am from Birmingham or burning on. I just feel like my accent kind of evolved when I was I stood it in London on DH in the mine. Voice became more international because I was hanging out with a lot of people from different places, and I kind of was like, Hey, you've learned my entire language. The least I can do is be clearly because people from Birmingham, too clearly so

spk_0:   6:08
friends from Birmingham from Solihull.

spk_1:   6:10
That's the nice, dirty, dirty end of voting on pride of so and then, Yes, I really kind of had a kind of international accent, and I was teaching and training of facilitating. So I wanted to be even clearer then kind of neutralised. And then when I started driving, I got on stage for the first time, toasting. All of a sudden I was like this doom your American women and I have no idea where she came from. But I love that.

spk_0:   6:36
So tell us about that. And how did you get entered by again? We'll get into definitions. What is a drag?

spk_1:   6:42
A draught? Well, it's a good question on Lee. I'm not sure I Mmm. For May, it's less about being a drag queen. It's more about the art of drag. So for me, a drag queen is a person who is exploring their gender through the art of drag, and they're playing on the feminine aspect of gender. Where's the Jack King is a person, and it can be of any gender or sexuality who is exploring gender through the art of drag, but in a more masculine way. But then a drag queen can express gender through their dragon. It be very beyond gender. It could be dare going beyond human as my really good friend Popcorn would

spk_0:   7:34
say was one of the track that means being an alien. But then you just said,

spk_1:   7:38
try post human alien animal.

spk_0:   7:41
And so how did you get into that?

spk_1:   7:44
Into Dr Yeah. So, um John, the short storey of a long storey. WeII, Yeah, I'll give you the faulty. So, um actually, I started performing when I was 23 or four, I think, and but I started as a gender fuck performer. That's fuck about funk on you, Khun. Get probably guess where the name Jenna phone came from. So I started in festivals as agenda fuck artist. So, Jenna fuck is an art form that's similar to drag, but you're playing with gender, so it's less, it's less about. It doesn't need to be super elevated, like I feel like drag is very big on DH huge and has very specific makeup on and weird and stuff like that. Where's Jenna? Fuck is more dislike playing with It's very gender Bender and I never really did make up and stuff. So I was doing that for like three years, but always within, like a very specific format and setting, like radical arts festivals where you know everybody's an artist's or crazy or whatever, and it's a super safe space to perform. And then I started doing drugs when I was here, So I moved here with one costume, thinking that wouldn't be a part of my life here. And I came in for a very different intention. I came here to learn and gain a different perspective, you know, as we took in the whole wide, straight, straight straight may I mean the whole white privilege thing. I was like, I want to get a different perspective and, like, grow up and be a better person and be more understanding. So I came to Vietnam, and then I just cannot get skate the glamour so I find this note called Full Disclosure on DH. I started to attend that absolute love, Dear decided to dress up. And then the founder of full disclosure, by the way, should go to full disclosure. It's absolutely amazing. Incredible drag show happens regularly. They're doing a pork pies and stuff she got, um, he had to go back to England for a while. So myself and three other people like to look after it for him while he was away. And that's where I saw my skills. I'd learned from organising festivals. Kind of came out and I was like, Oh, Chef, But I had these. Ah, nde are wet and full disclosure for a while, but I had the idea for gender funk, which is a play on the word of gender, that style of performance. I love Andi. I love disco. I feel like it's a music genre that most people can dance, too. It's very fun, like playful on died had the idea of gender front for seven years s O. When I was doing full disclosure, I was like, I'm literally doing exactly what I wanted to do. A gender funk, but it's just isn't my philosophy because Jenna Funk has a very specific mission philosophy and one it's about. So when government channels like full disclosure, yours, of course. I've had so much fun. Thank you so much. You go on. I started Jenna Funk, kind of likely off of full disclosure, but with my very our Sorry. She's a unique message of what gender from kids, because it's very idea.

spk_0:   10:59
So what is that mission and philosophy? The

spk_1:   11:02
philosophy of Jennifer thing is that we believe that the social construct or social idea of gender, because is the site tells us that a man should do this and act like this and be like this on a woman should do this and be like this. Not like this. We think it's actually ridiculous. We think it doesn't allow us to grow restrains us on. We actually think that it harms us, and there's lots of research gives evidence of this, um, so because we feel this, these generals are harming not just queer, capable people we provide. We create spaces for people to explore gender so they can realise thes rules are they don't exist. Very famous drag quick king land insider said When you break a rule, you realise there are no rules and then your phrase. So that's kind of the purpose of General Funk is like, We want you to come express your agenda in some way, like play with it a little bit and realise hung on. This isn't a thing. This isn't riel. And then when you realised that you can wear what you want, you could be hate how you want, as long as you're being kind, respectful on no harming other people. So that's our the overall philosophy of gender fund. It's not actually an LGBT party. It's a queer party because it's inclusive. It's inclusive of all people. Straight people have gender issues, too, because what's important to differentiate is that sexuality and gender are totally different things. Your sexuality is how your attraction to people and even that's very fluid. Your gender is how you identify so gender funk. It's not about sexuality. It's about, I mean, there is. It plays into a lot, but it's more about gender, and everyone has gender issues. I mean, I'm not everyone. I'm sure there's some cool people out there who have got it. Also it on brother, brother comes Jennifer. Tell people about it. But yeah, it's it's welcome for everyone. I mean, this privilege, straight white male have some of the worst problems agenda, and we reach out to them and we welcome them. We did a whole show for a straight man.

spk_0:   13:08
Well, I mentioned to Angie and just one of the previous episode I was looking coming Agenda funks things about 22. See what was going on. And so I actually went on to your Facebook page to look at the pictures of PVC previous events. Find out what people wore. Does a gadget will land fashion sense? I still have to go and get like a fit or something like that. And so it went on and I saw I saw one of my friends in the picture who is just normal T shirt and things like that. All right, Maybe the problem is it's too late. I'm an old man. It only today, isn't it?

spk_1:   13:40
Some of them we've just started a new show called Just Track On. That's an earlier show. So it finished. The show starts at 10 and 11 s. Oh, it's a much earlier show because We realise this a big part of the queer community on extended community. Who do you want to see? Shows, but they don't want to wait till midnight and they don't want to be in that club night setting. So that

spk_0:   14:01
would be That would be me. Yeah. Included in that that would be in bed by 12.

spk_1:   14:08
And that's the thing like Jenna Funky Zaveri Community things. So we're like, you know, we looked to our community and what do they want? What? You know, we want to provide this space for them. We want to provide entertainment to our community and to these people and who are then we identified like we're missing a big part of the community by having all these late shows that these big spaces so just drags now with the baroness. We just did the 1st 1 on Friday and it was super successful. Loads of people do I know for in the Christine, but I never see them. Big events were all there, and I'll call. It's working like, you know, we did this for you because we want to see you Then we wouldn't need to be up to enjoy the art

spk_0:   14:45
and entertainment. Yeah, have a look. What? What's been the reaction than from the local community? Gender Funk.

spk_1:   14:55
Um, let me cough. It's all sorry

spk_0:   15:02
with you. So what's been the reaction from the local community to gender funk?

spk_1:   15:08
I feel that the overall reaction to Jenna Funk has been extremely positive. From what I know, um, in terms of the local community, it's hard to tell because I feel like mainstream local Vietnamese people, like, perhaps, I don't know if Jennifer I don't know what it is. Maybe this in the name of that I know what it iss. It's still quite underground. I feel it's very quite restricted toe like never stated, but it's more within the nightclub are expert scene or my young queer Vietnamese. So comedy said about mention of enemies, community and call Chad for used to tell me I feel about it. But the young, queer local Vietnamese scene mostly are in love with it because we do for them like and that's one of my favourite parts of the show is when I'm at the show, I'll see thes young local Vietnamese queers on DH. I just see them every show and I'll see them growing and becoming more bold and more confident with costumes and make up and trying new stuff and evolving. And I make it my point to go every year. Looking good, girl, you need to tease that wig a bit girl like gives them a little tip. But, you know, make it known that like I am seeing you like, I do see that you're pushing your binders and you are growing, Um, and that just gives them the confidence to keep going. And that's the whole point is like another point of gender funk. Sorry, and another point of queer culture is that when career people are expressing themselves and trying to grow, they don't really get validation because you can't get validation from society or your parents and a lot of circumstances because they don't see that as a good thing. They didn't want to affirm that, like they think that that's a bad thing. You're not supposed to family when you're mad. I feel like it's important the queer community for us to be affirming each other. I mean, like, Hey, you look fierce. You look amazing because they look so called. I wanted I want to do this, I want to do more of this and it gives them support to grow more, which they aren't getting from everywhere else on DH, I can give you an example. There's give you if you actually, for example, on Friday just drag our first performer of the night Was erotica on erotica a year ago. Just used to come turn the events. And I remember the first time I came to the event and said hello to me, and then he wasn't he she there wasn't erotica. Then it was Hugh on DH. Then the next event came with make up on the next, then had this hideous wig on. But it doesn't matter. I could see that she was getting better. In every event you got better and better and better. So I keep my eye on these little new talents. And then she competed in Saigon is burning, which is our drag show. That is a platform to launch new artists. So we basically take five people from our community who we've noticed are the working hard or being artistic. We give them a team we trained for a month. We give them a makeup artist, a drag mom. We do choreography. We basically say, You know that cool, creative idea that you've had in your head for years and years and years We're gonna give you the resources on their support to make it happen because you're part of our community and we want to make your dreams come true on day compete. It's like a battle for my super fun and then, But the other part of it is that it's a launching platform pad for new artists like we want to grow this community and our brand of drag, and it's working. There's like 40 50 drag queens who have come from this event and erotica started. It's just a little career boy in the party on DH that then was on. Saigon is burning, and now he's getting paid to be one of my professional performers events. So it's see it's working. It's why, yes, all the hard work and the death nearly died. That's an exaggeration.

spk_0:   19:03
Would you agree that that it's a very surprising part of the kind of Saigon Vietnam culture like when you go back home, people shop the land that this is going on here they

spk_1:   19:14
are. I think people are shocked that it's happening because they just don't have any understanding of it. Ma'am, where's like villains like Tony Shales like, Look, what's going on is, yeah, well, that's why

spk_0:   19:24
we're being corrected on that Saigon Very different to the rest of them. True, with

spk_1:   19:31
drag, however, there is a really good drag in the North in Hanoi. Like I know a lot of the drugs we have Hanoi's burning like Jenna, thanks in the North as well. So although, like the the structures, maybe honours good is in the size. The drag scene is diff very different and in very cold in different ways. Like, for example, in the North. What I really love about the Northern drag cities. I feel like, unfortunately, because of the restrictions on venues and late night stuff like they are limited in what event spaces they can have, which, of course, limits a lot of this stuff you can do, however, in terms of diversity, the North slaying like they have loads of drag kings, which I am obsessed with right now, it's one of my favourite things in drag. At the moment, they have a really cool community of artists are all supporting each other. Um, so yeah, there there that's laying up in the north. I didn't really well, like most like Peach, Queen of Hanoi on wet on Billy. And yeah, there's some Really,

spk_0:   20:33
What is your point? People back home. See them when you tell them like this is what's happening. And I

spk_1:   20:38
think I had to, like, make it more real for them because obviously when you're just getting Facebook and Instagram reference point, I go back in there like you're the RuPaul of Vietnam and I'm like, Girl, I'm not a ripple of it. I'm like, adult like I like Loki Club Well known. Do you know what I mean? It's not. Let's not make this an ego trip. It's not a thing. I

spk_0:   21:00
see you. What you mean that you're the RuPaul Avi Nam you that's going to make a few good. I just don't see it

spk_1:   21:08
like that. Like I mean, it's cool. It's nice, like bombs like you have the wrong idea like this way, you know, because it's like I would I mean, I do have a lot of respect in the ruble. As for what he has done for the world for drag, for example. I feel like and he is a massive inspiration, like spirituals. Well, it's actually the spiritual and the business sides of report. I really respect and honour. However my artistic drags. I don't get my inspiration for report from that. Like drag for me is more art, then this homogenised product. I mean, I think that's important to also have, like if you want to do your own and you want to make money. If you are, you want to sustain your art, you need money. So you do need toe. Apply your art two different formats to make money so you can buy more shitting DEMAR. So I do respect Ripple for that, and I got a lot from him. But I may be some of the rules of the TV show there, like some negatives of it, like like kind of framing. This is what drag is when drag. It's so open. And that's where Jennifer difference to kind of the main image of drag is Jenna Fung. It's super, super open and fluid with our definition of drag we invited. It's inclusive of everyone. We have drag Queens from all different genders or different identities that August. If you ask the kids that also may I think I am swell, which is shady. Is this shady thing ever? I'm no darling. 29 30 in a way. Yeah, but I think I'm the oldest. Let me think from Jenna Funk. I'm pretty sure I'm the artist, which is ridiculous, because, like when I started doing Jennifer performances or when I lived in Europe, I was the baby of the group. Like all my friends, like, 50 and 60 years old in in Europe. Oh, are, like 40 50 60 that much older Because I just have a wise in mind. So yeah, here. I've got this mother role, which really shocked Madam. What? I didn't expect it to Saul because I was like the baby who was just finding my footing and stuff. But then I think I just didn't realise how lucky I was to have been. I have had my experience that I've had a such a young age in Europe and to be have being in this radical festival scene that had these amazing mentor is providing me with these alternative lifestyle references When I came to Vietnam and I met. I hadn't been hanging out with no less that normal people. Not in a bad way, but, like I'd only been with him Very alternative spaces for three years. So when I kind of came back to Maine, she societies like, Well, I forgot about this. Like, this is borough. You lie. Go. I got for May like a so long as you're happy. You know, I'm sure you're not bored. Not used with mentions size. Um, I hope you know. Anyway, if you are come to general So yeah, I just found it difficult. Come into me and I'm a first not because of the culture of that stuff I was loving. I found it more difficult just being back in a mainstream society, like going to normal bars. I was like, What is this like? It's really expensive. It's dirty. I can't lie on the floor. I can wear what I want. Like, this is terrible. So I was here for six months, and then I went back to all my festivals that are a huge part of my life. I came back and I was like, I can live here with this. And that's another reason why I got a band full disclosure and then started Jenna. Phone was like, I just need a space where I can be fabulous and there aren't that many. So if you can't find it, build it

spk_0:   24:45
and that's exactly what's come up time and time again. When I interviewed people was basically in the creative space or even in the business. And the business species well is because Vietnam is so new to developing developing sense. Coming, becoming modernised very quickly is a massive gap right now, in a space for people like yourself, you're saying you're so young with all this experience and come over and you can start something same with restaurants and with so many people have come when they come on the podcast. You know, I couldn't do this back home. We have a friend who's a musician who gets paid to be a musician, and this was last week, and I want his name because I don't want him about somebody's an amazing musician. Last week he said to me said, You know, the guy I play with, we think we're really average, and if we were back home. We would never get gigs, but here we like for five days a week, and we've pretty much make a living out. The music is amazing, and I think Israel would cast here like there wasn't many podcast when I started. There's more. No, I probably wouldn't have started about testified. Looked like there's all these other ones. I'm not gonna bother. It's

spk_1:   25:49
very true on DH. Sorry, I'm sick. Um, it's sure, And I think it's very important to realise, like I'm realised that massively, I think one is to realise, like how okay I am to that venom has enabled. Given me this opportunity, like the space of Vietnam, has given me this

spk_0:   26:08
really unique you might feel like, because it's not gonna last. Wherever Jennifer will last, you will

spk_1:   26:15
be calling in your grave.

spk_0:   26:17
Yeah, for the opportunity to start gender from you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah,

spk_1:   26:22
very, very, very, very, very true. And like what's even more important, I think is like, one thing that I massively recognises that cause I got a lot of praise for Jenna Funk. For like, you know, I mean, after the show, I spend two hours of just people like my God, you're so amazing. And I know, right? I'm sure. No. And I think the thing is, I say to a woman like, Look, I just I'm very lucky to have been born in the country and to have lived a journey and an experience where I have all these skills that I've learned on. I'm very lucky to find these skills. I worked very hard to learn these skills, and I, you know, went out and find these gills, and I take validation and credit for that. But the end of the day, I am extremely lucky, and I'm very understanding of the circumstances that enabled me to have them. So what I'm doing is I just realised I have the skill sets. It doesn't make me any better than anyone else. I just have the skill set. So I'm applying my skill sets to create a stage into organised, um, space for these artists to do their stuff because they are incredibly talented. Like this is the team. My drag Children are way more talented than May at makeup, art, dance. Like all of that Jewish, I just has loads of skill sets that I'm lucky to have. So I'm happy to use my skill sets to build this stage for them to express their art because they don't have those skills such yet and part of Jennifer, because they are learning the skill sets throughout. So I think it's like when I do get present. Look, it isn't when the only permanent I'm particular about, you know, people like you must call me he shoe, which is, you know, that's their right to club call from me the only print, and I'm very, particularly the uber. Now I'm with you Did this on my own And we did this like, yes, I'm the crazy bitch who with the spreadsheets and is like dragging unintended everyone together. But I couldn't do this if you weren't working. But I couldn't do this if these artists weren't here to do this. George, I couldn't do this if you weren't supporting me. So Jennifer is a massive way. And on top of that, it's also that Jennifer really is just a space for people to express themselves. They do all the work. I said, open the gate and keep them down it with heels. Um, And that was something that was provided to May in the festival. Seem before I got in the Radical Arts Festival scene in Europe. I was not being creative, and other people had voluntarily create this space for May on when I landed in that scene, that's where I explored and became a study harder and so really, everything I'm doing a Vietnam is an extension of what people did for me in Europe. So it's just flow an extension, so I don't take massive credit for it. Like I take credit for the hard work I do because they're working really hard. But we're all doing this like loads of fabulous people did this before. I'm passing on their fabulous gift. It passed on past May. Can't we all just, like, luxuriate and bathe in all our five collective fabulousness rather than being like, Yeah, I'm the best one. I'm the biggest queen is I fucked that girl. Sit down. You're a man, woman or thing, an address in some fabulous clothes. Well, having fun. Let's just maybe a

spk_0:   29:33
florid talking of definitions. What's your definition of fabulous?

spk_1:   29:40
Anything Relay for May for me, things that are fabulous things that bring good to the world like because I always say, like the most fabulous. You know what is more fabulous than any dress I will ever wear or any ifit I should everywhere Should. I don't really wear dresses after on is, for example, I'll meet someone who works for ice. Yes, Ciara this LGBT nonprofit or meet someone who works for the green bamboo shot or I think it's called. I was confused. The name. I'll meet someone from there, and it's like someone who's wearing like a white T shirt. Flip flops. There's no excuse for flip flops, by the way. I'm saying this recorded, Um, I just hate them. Sorry, we won't get into it. I just can't stand them. So they're wearing white T shirt, flip flops and shorts, but they work 24 7 They dedicate their life and sacrifice all of the, you know, aesthetic things and a lot of hobbies and interests, whatever to help other people who really, really need it. And I think that's the most fabulous thing in the world more fabulous than anything, Ideo. So that's fabulous. Is could be used

spk_0:   30:49
in many different contexts. Not gonna let you go by that. What's wrong with foot from

spk_1:   30:54
Lissa, right, girl? I know it's May I accept that their social accepts overalls. I know that they're cool. You conflict the mine and I'll forget the whole thing. But one I just don't like how they look. I don't like that your toe is split by this thing. And then the sign they may We know what the code is. A theory? No, Some.

spk_0:   31:16
Yeah. I do not know me. The more fabulous

spk_1:   31:20
songs are not five minutes. Anyway, I think the English reference of things I'm gonna um No, I just can't stand them. I just think that father signed. They make they look horrible. People floating around inside, associate like Brits abroad with them. I have no problem with people having them. Like I know I am on the woman issue yet you can wear them anywhere you want. It's just never gonna work for May. You were on the barefoot barefoot or I'll wear some kind of sandal, maybe.

spk_0:   31:51
No, indeed. What's the difference between a sandal? I fly? My definition is

spk_1:   31:58
like a son of me is more closed. Affair, closed toe affair. I don't like sliders

spk_0:   32:05
like sliders. They're like crisps on there. Many hamburger.

spk_1:   32:12
I didn't know I'm gluten free. I am actually glued. My life is so funny because GF means gluten free. And GF means gender funks. That's on those of the two B's components of my life. Good freeze. Just like a hipster trained fuck all the way off, I think. Excuse me while I have celiac have the disease is still let me educate. You know, people who know. Are you busy? Well, who are these people? Do they have Ph. D's? Because I want to see you. I've been to real doctors, cameras up dad everywhere else. If you and telling me that you are more experience and research than PhD doctors with cameras down my throat, then I will start listening. Just know there is a hipster trend. Of course, I'm

spk_0:   33:00
obviously joking, but I know it's frustrating with people about kind of seething like that. Gluten free and you're late. Richard could you know. Yeah. No, honestly,

spk_1:   33:11
it's from a It's a whole joke, like I play with on stage all the time. We play with all the time, me and my friends. The thing is, yes, there is the hipsters into the whole gloom for anything. I can't believe my friends are gonna die that way. They're gonna be like, Shut up, Ricardo. Because like, it's the luck of running, jerking our friendship like someone will join a band like it. Everyone just shut up with

spk_0:   33:33
that. I offer you a beer E I met

spk_1:   33:37
because I make it. What I love is like something that people have a negative concept off of me in my life or something. I go super fire with it a satirical way, For example, when I was younger, people are just so gay. I so get us again. It started to affect me. So it's like, OK, how can we claim this is what you want to see gay? I am gonna be the most gay you have ever seen. So now you will see him in the car. A little booty shorts. Justin with the football sucks up to my knee. I'll be ran a crop top with my little sailor hat, and I'm just like, prancing around like, yeah, I'm really gay like, and I just like, take it to the extreme, a radicalised there as a way of me processing it and taking charge

spk_0:   34:17
of it. And what was the reaction? When you best like that,

spk_1:   34:21
they live literally like his his thing. So for May I struggled with my gender and sexuality for a very, very long time. Actually, I only came out to my mom when I was 25 just super late, especially for someone who's Megazord gay like me. So the shift for me was I spent so much of my life being restricted and not being creative and not being much yourself because society, the government, everyone told me that you're a man and acting this way is a bad thing. It's negative. So I didn't do it. And then I was lucky enough to be in on this path or kind of maybe manifested in a way. And I find this festival scene where and I went on my own this festival and it was this open playground worker do I wanted it was a safe space. So then I started to experiment on exploring my queen us on DH. There was one vessel called borderline, and I joined a queer camp. So I turned up. But this create camp thinking there's gonna be loads of Dick. Andi was predominately like male female couples who are queer for sure. But that shocked me that this idea of queer being like male female couples mostly I was like, Where are all the single gay men? That's why I'm here. It's not. But what I wanted, I thought That's the space I'd be in.

spk_0:   35:39
It's Storey discreetly to interrupt a queer camp. It sounds like opposite Teo. What's the invest in camp? I think opens into that.

spk_1:   35:50
It's not that we don't actually, we do. We need to have rituals and stuff. It's because that these festivals you band together, build camps and it's where you sleep. And you could collectively cook and stuff. So there's loads of different camps. But yeah, come. Yeah, the next Jennifer project, You gonna catch it? So what was interesting was it was just a very different definition of queer. Then why was used to on then what I discovered what was This is a message I bring to Jennifer all the time. Is that my whole life I was not being myself because society told me that is bad is wrong. Then when I went to this festival thing this quick, I wass being much yourself. I was being my most queer and famine camp and they were loving it. They were like celebrating it. They were living for them like Yeah, like God, we love this. We love this. We love this is the affirmation, really, from, let's say straight, more straight ish people what people would define a straight that gave me the confidence. And then it was like this shift in my mind. It was absolutely insane. Like, I remember being on the plane. And when I walked into that festival on for my whole life, I've been asking for acceptance. I was like, except me for being like this except my them except my camp. Please accept me society because you're telling me this is wrong and I want acceptance. I need acceptance because I feel shit about myself. And it flipped And I was like, Bitch, I don't need your acceptance. I know I'm a kind loving person and I know I'm fabulous. I'm not asking for anything anymore. It's an invitation. Now I'm inviting you to come and celebrate my Karina's on all the benefits you can bring your life, not the other way around. Being queer is diversity, its colour, its happiness, its love, its support. It's art, and I'm so lucky to be queer. And I look at my friendship group and they're from all over the world are all different genders. They have been through terrible hardships which make them so empathetic. And they're so supportive and loving and artistic and Graham and it's fabulous. And isn't that what the world needs straight people have done fucked the world up and you're looking at just like Oh, we're like asking for acceptance from the straight world when the straight world hush fucking the world up and I'm like, Shouldn't you be looking to different people to try and change the game like things aren't working globally like I feel anyway, like there's a lot of problems. Why can't we look for alternative inspirations? Christine? Different minority groups, colours, places in the world. Those are the places where we can look for different ways to structure ourselves 100

spk_0:   38:20
percent old, straight white men, the last group of people that are going to do any of that unfortunate, but

spk_1:   38:30
they're also going to die soon, so I put

spk_0:   38:33
a bullet through the boat. And I think a lot of people definitely younger generation even younger than me waiting for that happened, like in Scotland with a referendum to become a B from the United Kingdom. It was the older people overwhelmingly voted to stay in the union, and the younger generation overwhelmingly voted to leave. And I know there was a lot of kind of like you're all gonna die soon. You're not gonna live long enough to see what this is going to mean. The young population when this happened. And I think that's why the referendum. No, I don't want to speak like an expert because I barely even know anything. So ignored. Everything I'm saying the young, I think that's why there will be another referendum. Because that younger generation and the last thing averages last week was the older gent. But there was a survey of older people, and they were saying we made a mistake. You know, the results of this early? We want to

spk_1:   39:24
do that. Um, I think what? This is an important thing. I think you know, here. Is that, like, you know, you said, like the old, straight white people. Yeah, I get it, and I do. I believe in that. Yet they are causing a lot of problems in the world. There is too much power there, and this is We're reaching an age where people, monnaie groups have been empowering each other enough like and, you know, really banding together. That's coming department. We have got the confidence in the drive and the fabulousness, in my opinion, to start being like, Yeah, we demand equality now, like it's not even a question anymore, like there's enough of us to be like and how

spk_0:   40:02
many people in politics in positions of power are from minorities in 20 years ago with get there with you call agenda. Whatever that trip plans politicians and things like that

spk_1:   40:15
on, it's amazing. They are definitely step in the right direction. Why things important from me and this is me as an individual speaking on also in turn, a lot of general funks philosophy is this is that Jennifer we are not hating will make jokes about it, but we're not hanging straight white people at all. Like a lot of I cried a straight white people because this is a really important point for me is that at the end of the day, you can't help how you're born if you're born a straight old white person not going on. But if you're old now, you were born 60 years ago as a straight white person. You were born into that experience and you live that experience and you were educated in that way. That's not your choice. You didn't choose that. So I don't hate you for being born. I'm being educated that way. What is more important to me is to try and build a bridge and a connexion for us to understand each other so we can make the world better for both of us. So I feel like there is a radical liberal movement that is like screw the straight people, white people, they're evil and you know they're not the best, but they're not bad. They're not bad people. That's just how they were taught. The world is, and we're not going to get anywhere by shying each other and creating distance. We need to have parties together, and that's what Jennifer is. It's an invitation to like come and have a drink with us. Part of this and see that this is a great, fabulous thing and maybe it will change your perspective. So that's why we did like the straight guys edition. And that's why I, like we are an inclusive space, is because I I have nothing against anyone. I don't care what colour you are as long as you you can choose how you were born, your experience. But you can choose to change it when somebody provide you a different information and you can choose to grow. If someone has patience and gives you an opportunity to If you decide to not grow and not be grateful of that patient, then you're a dick and I will call you straight. But most people aren't most people that I meet that are white and straight like I taught somebody's stuff. Of course. So what about this? They asking those questions? And if we're showing a straight people all the time like you've got my programme around, you're doing this, they're not gonna ask questions, and then they're not gonna learn about us, and we can't be friends. And at the end of the day, we all gotta live in this world and there's more straight people than queer people. We have

spk_0:   42:31
something that is part of the problem. How Thanks for listening to Episode eight of Season 27 Million bakes a Saigon podcast. We'll be enjoying that. I've decided to split this episode into two parts because Ricardo was so interesting. He had so much to talk about, enjoyed listening to him so much. It went on a little bit, and I thought instead of putting out another long episode, we break into two parts. We agreed to know your feedback a lot off. My episodes are over one hour. It's no intentional. I like to talk a lot of fame, I guess, really interesting. And I feel the natural conversation seems to last about an hour. But is that too long? Would you rather have more two parters? Would you rather I just shot in the interviews and kept a more succinct or you just happy to listen to me and my guests talk on Andi have the natural compositions that we are, so I don't know, let me know what you think. It's good to hear your feedback. I hope you enjoyed that one. Please listen in next week for part two where we talk more about sexuality, gender on ST Wait Men in the world on how fabulous Ricardo is, which he is. He was a really entertaining guests, as always, Thank you to Louis, right, for composing the theme tune to seven Million Bakes, which is still one of my favourite things to listen to on Thank you Jillian win by helping me design the cover are as well you can get seven million makes any where you get your podcast. Apple podcast, Google podcast, Spotify stitcher Anything like that, you can drop me a line seven million bakes at gmail dot com. Or please go on the Facebook page. Give it a like Samia Massey's lever of you. Let me know that you're out there and you're listening. And if you're enjoying the show or any other feedback that you have, so keep listening. Keep tuning in and enjoy Part two next week with Estelle Ricardo