Explore Hanoi & Ha Long Bay with Claire Simpson

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"Hanoi is this magical blend of chaos and serenity—you’ll never want to leave."  - Claire Simpson

Having this episode with Clair was an absolute delight—a perfect blend of nostalgia and discovery. 

Hearing Clair's unique journey, from arriving in Hanoi on a whim to becoming a local expert and food influencer, was both inspiring and eye-opening. Her insights into how Hanoi’s culture, tourism, and food scene have evolved over the years gave me a fresh perspective on a city I thought I already knew so well. 

It reminded me of the magic that Hanoi holds, from the chaotic charm of Train Street to the serenity of Halong Bay, and how it continues to captivate both newcomers and long-term residents alike. Clair’s passion for sharing her love of Hanoi is infectious, and it made me fall in love with the city all over again. - Niall Mackay

Key Takeaways:

Train Street Magic - A thrilling combination of local charm and tourist allure, where a train rushes through narrow streets lined with cozy cafes.

Hanoi’s Foodie Paradise - Discover Hanoi’s culinary gems, from the famous Bun Cha to the divisive Bun Dao Mam Tom.

The Allure of Halong Bay - Why this UNESCO World Heritage Site remains a must-see, even after multiple visits.

Cultural Evolution Post-COVID - The shift in Hanoi’s tourism demographic from backpackers to families and older travelers.

Bia Hoi Culture - The unique experience of enjoying freshly brewed, ultra-affordable beer while mingling with locals.

Chapters & Timestamps:

04:30 – Clair’s journey: From the UK to Hanoi.
13:00 – The timeless beauty of Halong Bay.
21:30 – Post-COVID tourism in Hanoi: What’s changed?
26:10 – Train Street: Controversy and charm.
30:20 – Foodie Heaven: Must-try dishes in Hanoi.
34:00 – The Bia Hoi experience: Hanoi’s beer culture.
41:00 – Exploring Hanoi: Unique neighborhoods and cultural gems.

Transcript

Klair: 0:00

I spent like a week in Hanoi, absolutely loved it. Then I went home and I was like,"No! I'm done with the UK." Booked a one way flight back, with no savings.

Niall Mackay: 0:09

There is just something about this place that you come as a tourist and you're just blown away by it. Welcome to another episode of a Vietnam podcast with me, your host, Niall Mackay. Now, a Vietnam podcast started in 2019 with the aim of sharing stories of people connected to Vietnam. Since then, we've gone on to be one of the top 10 percent podcasts in the world, listened to all over, and we actually even won an award in 2024 for the best interview podcast in all of Asia, which still blows my mind. Now, my name is Niall Mackay. I came to Vietnam in 2016, started this podcast in 2019 and I've been able to learn so much about this country through that. I came here for six weeks and decided I like this place and I'm going to stay. Now in today's episode, I am really, really excited to hear what she has to say. So she is originally from the UK, like me. She arrived in Vietnam, like me in 2016, but actually up in Hanoi and she has worked. in a hostel and as a tour guide. Also, like me, she didn't plan on staying in Vietnam for nine years, but here we are. And she's still here. And she also runs the gluten free Hanoi Instagram and get this one influencer of the year in the People's Pick Awards. So congratulations on that. Now in this episode, I'm so excited because we're going to talk about something that I actually don't really know anything about. We're going to explore Hanoi, And how tourism has changed there pre and post COVID, especially with different age groups and the types of traveler that go to Hanoi, and how Hanoi has changed in general over the years, and like Saigon has become a lot more modern, and some of those changes have been for good. And some of them have been for bad. So I'm really excited to introduce my guest today, Claire Simpson. Thank you for joining me today, Claire.

Klair: 2:51

Thank you for having me. I'm really excited and a little bit nervous, but excited.

Niall Mackay: 2:57

Well, I have a really important question to ask you right away. I've noticed this over the years. I used to do stand up comedy as well. So in your bio that you sent me, you said you're from the UK. I'm going to guess that means you're from England.

Klair: 3:10

Yeah, but my, so the thing is I say UK I, my dad's family are all Scottish, right? I grew up a lot in Scotland as a kid. My mom's family are Irish. I was born in England. It seems relevant to say the UK, no?

Niall Mackay: 3:26

You get a bit of a pass on that, but I have noticed over the years that the English are too embarrassed to say they're from England. And when I've done comedy shows or met people and I'll say, where are you from? They'll go Scotland. Where are you from? Wales. Where are you from? Northern Ireland. Where are you from? The UK. And they're from England every time.

Klair: 3:44

It's a fair point. It is a fair point.

Niall Mackay: 3:48

So tell me a little bit about how you came to Vietnam and how you ended up staying here just like me.

Klair: 3:54

Okay, so I traveled, uh, Vietnam, uh, back in 2016 at the beginning. Uh, I spent like a week in Hanoi, absolutely loved it. Stayed at a hostel, can I mention the name of the hostel? Yeah, Central Backpackers. so yeah, stayed there for a week, loved it. Then I went home and I was like, no, I'm done with the UK. Booked a one way flight back. with no savings. Uh, it was in hindsight a little bit silly, but I got a job at the hostel working as a tour guide, um, and did that for like six months. So I was doing pub crawls, walking tours around Hanoi, had to learn a lot about Hanoi very, very quickly for those, and also Halong Bay tours as well. So I think I've been to Halong Bay more than any person should or could, I don't know,

Niall Mackay: 4:40

Wow.

Klair: 4:41

did it a lot.

Niall Mackay: 4:43

That's amazing. So what was it then about Vietnam that made you want to come back immediately? Because I know we've talked about this so much on this podcast, and if you're a regular listener, I'm so sorry, but I do want to hear your answer because it might be different to other people. So what was it about Vietnam that you were like, I'm coming back with no money and a one way ticket?

Klair: 5:01

Oh, okay. So the true story. originally it was for someone that I met I no longer have any contact with. I'm not going to name drop them because I just don't want to, but yeah, it was someone I met. And, um, yeah, and then they convinced me to come back and it was going to be this whole kind of fairytale thing. It wasn't, but on the other side of that, it was like the food, the people, I had a really great time in hindsight. I didn't see much of Hanoi before I moved here. I had no clue. Um, I came in, I think it was like February, March, kind of. March, it would have been. And then I moved back in June. Like, even silly things. I had no idea that the weather got as cold as it did in winter. Didn't look that up. I was very shocked. I didn't know about what my long term plan was. I didn't know about pollution rates here. It really was like whimsical thing. I was 28 at the time, so you'd think I would have more of a plan, but no. But it worked out. It worked out all right. I'm still here. Something must have gone right with that story.

Niall Mackay: 6:05

Well, that is a little bit of a different answer that you came for. Love, we'll call it. We came for somebody because a lot of people just come and they're just like, I have to come back here. There's something about Vietnam that just gets them. So that is, uh, hilarious that you left UK, I'm going to imagine in part because of the horrible weather in the UK and then moved to Hanoi where the weather in the winter is arguably worse.

Klair: 6:28

Yeah, well, I think as well, to be fair, I left there was like, there wasn't much going on in the UK for me at that point. And Hanoi just seemed fun. I think that's what it was as well. I didn't have that much fun in my early 20s in the UK. And then Hanoi was super fun. And I was like, I'm just gonna see what happens here. But initially, yeah, I was planning on staying like a year and saving some money and then maybe going to do the whole New Zealand working holiday thing because I'd done Australia. long time ago as well. Um, but yeah, alas, that did not quite happen.

Niall Mackay: 7:00

So we were really similar when I say we, I mean, my wife and I, we met in Australia and then we went to New Zealand and did a working holiday visa there. But then that turned into four years and we became permanent residents of New Zealand. But then eventually we were like, let's go travel around Southeast Asia. And in my younger years, I'd actually forgotten about this, but when I was like 23, I kind of had it as a, not as a solid goal, but a distant plan to come to Southeast Asia and learn how to teach English and do all that kind of backpackery stuff. It never really happened and that was fine. And then we came much later in life, never expected to be here for this long. And there is just something about this place that you come as a tourist and you're just blown away by it. So what have you seen then? As a tour guide, what have you seen at Harlem Bay? Has your perceptions changed? Are you sick of it now, or do you still get excited by it?

Klair: 7:53

Ha Long Bay, so I haven't been there in a long time to be fair, but I remember when my mum first visited actually after I'd moved here. So it was probably about a year after I was here and I'd stopped being a tour guide. She wanted to do all the touristy things and we went to Ha Long Bay and I was kind of over it at that point because I had been a lot. And it sounds terrible because it's like one of the wonders of the world and everyone comes here for it, but when you spend like, I was doing like a week on week off. week on in Halong, week in Hanoi and doing that for six months. when you're doing it that long, it just, it just becomes part of the normalcy. Yeah, normalcy. Um, so yeah, when my mum came, it was quite nice because I saw the look on her face when she saw it and I was like, oh yeah, okay, this is pretty special. And now that I'm a mum as well, we've talked about like taking my son there. So, um, that's going to be quite nice. I think when he's a little bit older, obviously. Um, But yeah, I still love it. I love Hanoi as well. Hanoi I love intently, but like yeah, not Halong think I just got a bit over it.

Niall Mackay: 8:57

It's so funny how what you described is a hundred percent. I love it when people come to visit us in Saigon, because you start to be a tourist again. I just take for granted. It's just Saigon. I take for granted the traffic and how crazy it is. I take for granted the food. And we just had somebody visit last week, which Uh, the episode will already be out by the time this comes out. So you can go back and check it out. And I took Nick around Saigon on my bike and we went to Saigon's most dangerous district. And I have air quotes with that because it used to be Saigon's most dangerous district. It's not so much anymore, but it's definitely, Very different to District 1, but just taking him around was so fun and just being in the traffic and he was blown away by it and to me it's, I just do this route every day and don't blink an eye and we got some food and we got some Nookmia and it's just seeing it through a tourist's eyes is always amazing so I can imagine when your mum came you were, it was like reignited that like, oh this is incredible.

Klair: 9:52

Yeah, absolutely. And also at the moment, so my husband's friend is currently here as well, and it's his first time. So when we went to see him for the, Um arrived a few weeks ago. He's been cycling up the north kind of region. He's coming back today. Um, but seeing it through his eyes as well. Every time someone comes who's never been, I think that actually really helped you appreciate much of an amazing place this is to be and how crazy it can be, but in the most amazing way.

Niall Mackay: 10:22

I've only been to Harlem Bay once, as most people in their life probably only go once. It is funny you say that. We all get, we all get jaded or tired. I can't think of the exact word. It's something we do repeatedly, right? Even if it's as stunning as Harlem Bay, eventually it's going to wear off. And it's a shame, right? That it's just a normal human thing. You're not like every time like, wow, this is amazing. I sometimes think when you do these types of tours, it's like, And whether it's a local tour guide or foreign tour guide, and you're like, this must be amazing. This is your job every day. And they're like, yeah, I can see why you're not that excited.

Klair: 10:55

I think the only thing I would love to go back and what kind of gave me some nostalgia recently was with Typhoon Yagi. obviously that area was devastated. Um, in terms of like all the boats and the hotels and everything like that around that area. So seeing all of that. me want to go back and it also did kind of touch my heart quite a lot because not just, I mean, in general, obviously it was a horrible thing to see, but having been there so much in the past and seeing how much that area relies on tourism and stuff as well, um, I think that's the most recent time when I thought, ah, okay, I do miss it or I'd love to go back there.

Niall Mackay: 11:31

Now, there may be people listening, there probably is, who've never been to Harlem Bay. Probably most people listening have never been to Harlem Bay and don't really know what it is. And as I mentioned, I've only been there once and it was nine years ago. so explain to me, what do you see when you're there? Cause I know, like, I know what it looks like and I've been there, but can you give a bit more detail on how you get there? You mentioned getting on a boat. What does that boat look like and what do you do when you're there?

Klair: 11:57

Okay. So I mean, if I give you an example of like the tour I used to do, so we would get the bus from Hanoi up to Haiphong. Yeah. And then you go across to Cat Bar Island, which is the main kind of big island. The tours that I used to do were on another island, so you get on another boat on there, um, but a lot of them now are just kind of boat tours. So you get yourself to Cat Bar Island mainly or to Haiphong and then you get onto a boat and then the boat goes out into the bay and most tours now will, you'll stay on a boat for either like two days one night or three days two nights. Um, you'll see like a lot of the big casts, um, there's like kayaking and things like You also see a lot of, uh, fishing villages. I think that's what the right word would be. So like, lots of people live on these kind of floating houses and they do their business there, like they fish for their business and they also live on these as well.

Niall Mackay: 12:52

And I think I did the two night, three day tour, but I always have it in the back of my head. My wife's going to listen to this and then correct me. And she's like, it was one night, two days. So I can't actually remember, but I think it was the two nights, three days too, that we did. I would say that's more of a recommendation, right? Because you can get further out when you're on the boat for longer and it's much quieter and you can see more, right?

Klair: 13:15

Yeah, absolutely. And I think also the good thing about that is if you do get like a bad day of weather, you generally won't get two days in a row that are that bad. But if you get one day that's a bit maybe overcast, then at least you've got the next day as well to kind of see things. But I would say yeah, three days, two nights is always what I would recommend to people to do. If you've got the time, of course.

Niall Mackay: 13:35

a good tip. Yeah, yeah, of course. It is just such a stunning place. I don't use this word very often, but otherworldly a little bit, right?

Klair: 13:45

because I think as well, if you're coming straight from Hanoi to do it, which most people would, you'd be in Hanoi first and then go up to Halong. You're going from like the craziness and noise and bustling kind of city to just very quiet, calm waters and Yeah, a bit more peaceful.

Niall Mackay: 14:05

Now, you're like me. You've lived in Vietnam through COVID. How has that changed tourism in Hanoi?

Klair: 14:12

Okay, so it's tricky because obviously I don't work like directly in tourism now as a tour guide So I do kind of my Instagram that you mentioned earlier with all the videos and things about food and tips But I don't work directly with tourists, but from what I've seen Tourists seem to be a little bit older now Like, before, you'd get a lot of, when I was working in the hostel at least, you'd get like a lot of like 18 year olds up to 25 year olds. That was like the main demographic I saw. And so even, I was 28 at the time, I felt ancient. would get like 18 year olds being like, oh my god, you're nearly 30, and I'm like, oh, thanks. Um, Yeah, now you're seeing a lot more older tourists, you see a lot more families as well. I actually recently went to the Old Quarter to, which is the main, for those that don't know, is the main kind of tourist sector, and yeah, there was a lot more kind of people in their late 20s, early 30s.

Niall Mackay: 15:07

Interesting. Now, do you think that is partly due to the Vietnam visa rules? And this is something we've talked about a little bit. Vietnam, you have to pay for your visa and it's only 30 days. Whereas most other Southeast Asian countries, it's visa on arrival and it's free entry. So like Thailand and I think Cambodia might be the same as well.

Klair: 15:28

I'm not sure, because some countries now do get 45 days free here, so some countries now get 45

Niall Mackay: 15:35

Right.

Klair: 15:36

for free, and

Niall Mackay: 15:37

But they still have to pay for it, right?

Klair: 15:39

three months. No, free!

Niall Mackay: 15:40

So it's slowly changing because I know that's been a bit of a barrier setting. Vietnam's not caught up in tourism. So my question was going to be, I wonder if it's more of a less attractive area for backpackers? And that's why the 18 to 25 demographic you've noticed aren't coming as much because when you're backpacking and every penny's a prisoner, if you have to pay for a visa, and I, I know that it can be, I don't know which countries are on that list. Actually, now you mentioned it, I think I do know what you're talking about. But I do know there's many countries that aren't on that list and to do all that paperwork and everything. So i've been at the airport going through immigration and i've seen the person at the immigration stand next to me assuming that it was visa on arrival and the immigration and not having a visa and the immigration officer having to basically Turn them away. I do think there's a solution I think they go to like the immigration desk and they can apply for it But again, then you got to pay money. You got to do all this paperwork. I don't think you get Chucked out the country per se, but it's pretty jarring. And it's not a good first experience when you show up at the airport and they're like, Oh no, you, you can't come in. We don't have visa on arrival. Granted. You should know this before you get here and you should do your research, but

Klair: 16:48

this is my argument. Okay, because there are a lot of groups that they have like for Vietnam travel and things and you see people kind of posting and I do feel for them. Um, but they're like, Oh, we've just arrived and we thought we could have a visa on arrival and now we can't, they're not letting us through. And I'm like, well, maybe just look before, but I know maybe that's being a bit harsh because I know the rules. But

Niall Mackay: 17:10

no, it's not, it's not harsh. It's not, you should look before you go to another country. I've seen it on Facebook groups as well. Like. I need help. I'm at the airport. Does anyone know anyone that can help me get a visa? Blah, blah, blah. And you're like, again, how have you, my wife and I talk about this all the time. We're like, how do you travel? How have you? Because we meet people that have traveled the world and they seem so dense. And you're like, how did you organize flights and visas and save money and get from point A to point B? Because to me, it seems like you can't even tie your shoelaces.

Klair: 17:43

There's also, the thing is, I have also seen a lot of this where there's sometimes a lot of problems with like, um, the website that people use. Apparently, like, it gets chucked back a lot if they put one, like, they don't complete all the information, or it takes a lot longer than they thought. So, but I don't know, I haven't applied for a visa in a long time, if I'm being honest, because I

Niall Mackay: 18:04

Yeah,

Klair: 18:05

so,

Niall Mackay: 18:06

yeah, but it's something if you are coming to Vienna, make sure you know the visa rules. They do change quite often as well, which doesn't help. Like you've, you've just reminded me of something that had changed that I'd forgotten about. Not that I'm the same as well. I don't ever really have to apply for visas, like every three years or something, renew stuff. But if you are coming, make sure you know the visa rules. It's not visa on arrival for most countries. Have all your paperwork in order and don't misspell your name because Well that's the other one that's confusing because Vietnam do their names backwards compared to western names so generally their family name is the first name and a lot of the the websites that I've been on for flights they are very clear on like what name to put so just make sure you're very clear on that don't put your first name as your last name and vice versa.

Klair: 18:52

I didn't even think about that, actually. That's the point. Cause I know that from getting my own kind of documents here, but I completely forgot that's probably a reason that some people might get declined as well.

Niall Mackay: 19:03

Yeah, so how else has Hanoi changed over the years since you got there and pre and post Covid?

Klair: 19:09

Uh, right. So main one I can think of right now. So I live, um, in like an expat district. Well, I say expat district. There are obviously like locals here as well. Um, it's called Tejo or Yeah. How did you guess?

Niall Mackay: 19:26

That's the only district I know in Hanoi is Tejo that's like it.

Klair: 19:30

Yeah, I see they both changed though, so great. Let me go back, so I used to live in the old quarter when I worked at the hostel, when I was doing the tour guide thing, and at the time when I lived there then, like back in 2016, it was very obviously geared towards tourists. What was interesting over COVID times, because people weren't coming in, it was almost like it got reclaimed by the locals, which was amazing. So there was a few times we would go down there and because we were still here and also the border's closed, we couldn't leave. So we kind of made the most of it by going to do tourist days and things in the old quarter, um, like going to Train Street and getting Coffee and things like that are going to be a hoist. and. was so many more little local food stands and more like little markets and things. It was almost like everything got reclaimed and it was quite nice to be honest with you. Not that I'm going against tourism because obviously that's why I'm here in the first place for many reasons. But yeah, but Tay Ho itself, it's everything is just building up. One of the reasons I fell in love with Hanoi, See, I'm the same as you. I haven't really been to Saigon. I've been twice. So I don't know what it's like down there that much. Um, in Hanoi it used, one of the reasons I loved it was because it was so traditional and there were a lot of kind of old buildings and a lot of like trees and things like that and that had been there for years and years. We still have some of those, but now, I'm even looking out my window now, and the amount of like, big, tall apartment buildings and, um, high rises that have now appeared over the last few years is crazy, like there's such a boom going on right now with housing, and the economy in general.

Niall Mackay: 21:18

It changes so quickly. Right. Would you say then the change in Hanoi is for good or for bad

Klair: 21:24

Okay, so think it's both. I don't think it's ever clear. You can't ever say, Oh, it's everything's terrible or everything's amazing. Um, in terms of like living here because of the boom, um, like pricing, pricing is going up, like apartment prices. I remember, um, Back in the day, I, we had a two bedroom house and we paid 12 million dong. What's that in dollars? I'm trying to do like a currency that everyone would buy.

Niall Mackay: 21:49

500.

Klair: 21:50

Five, okay. Now we're paying 17 million for a two bed apartment. Um, granted the apartment we live in is beautiful. Oh, we've actually just moved. We moved in about a week ago, but like, It's obviously everything's going up, which I understand, but then salaries aren't going up. Um, good though, in the terms of there's more restaurants, there's more bars, especially for me because I do like the food blogging thing, so that's amazing. Um, and because there's more people coming over, there's more understanding of what people want, what people need in terms of restaurants, bars, entertainment, things like that. I think it's bad, the bad part for me, I mean, I was walking the other day actually and there's these two famous dragons. It's like a sculpture. If you've been here, maybe you saw it around Westlake?

Niall Mackay: 22:36

Yeah, I would have done, yeah.

Klair: 22:38

so someone posted a picture actually the other day, and it was like five years ago, you look through the dragons, and there was like a little bit of a skyline in terms of big buildings, but mostly it was kind of smaller buildings. Now there's this giant big like black fire eyes in the middle of it that these apartments have been getting built for ages. Um, there's loads of other things going on. At night time you see lots of lights being projected, I don't even know where they're coming from, and lots of lights on these big apartment buildings, and Ah, okay, this is, so you just kind of accept it. I don't think it's good or bad overall, I think there's definitely pros and cons.

Niall Mackay: 23:15

And I think it's that thing that every city in the world has gone through that. We just didn't see it. Like London didn't used to look like that. And I'm sure the people who used to live in London were like, Oh, there's all these big buildings coming. London's changing. It's not as good as it used to be. And then now it's like, it's just, it's still getting stuff built everywhere. We're just living through it and seeing it. By now, I hope you're dreaming of an unforgettable adventure through Vietnam. Join explores inside Vietnam tour, where you can journey through 2000 mails from hanai to the Mekong Delta. Walk through her noise bustling all quarter cruise, this stunning, how long be and visit the ancient tone of high-end and navigate the Palm lane canals of the Mekong Delta. With a dedicated tool leader. And an itinerary that captures Vietnam's unique landscapes in local culture. This 14 day trip is designed for those who want a deep, authentic experience. Check out the link in our show notes to learn more about how to book your spot now. All right. Let's get back to the shore. so tell me what to do in Hanoi as a tourist.

Klair: 24:28

say, because the thing is there's so many different sectors. food and drink or you want to do like the classic things. What would be niche?

Niall Mackay: 24:38

All right. Tell me, I got two days in Hanoi. What would you say I should do when I'm there?

Klair: 24:42

Okay. Um, visit train street. Definitely. Do you, have you actually had, have

Niall Mackay: 24:46

Is it open?

Klair: 24:47

it is, it opened again like a year ago. It never really closed. Let's be honest. It

Niall Mackay: 24:52

No.

Klair: 24:53

So those that don't know train street is. It's what it says on the tin. Basically, it's a street where the train goes through. on the side of the train tracks, there's loads of like cafes and bars and things. And okay, yeah, it did close for a little bit for safety reasons. But people still were going there. So I think they've regulated it a bit more now. So you can go in with like a security guard or with a cafe owner or something. Or with a tour guide.

Niall Mackay: 25:18

Can we add that the reason it closed was because of stupid tourists who are trying to be influencers or Instagrammers. And so what happens on train streets, or we didn't really specify, I have been, it's amazing. The train comes through like four times a day, I think, or something like that. The times I know, well, when I was there, the times were listed at what time the train would come through and you can sit and have a Vietnamese coffee, a beer, food. right by the train tracks. I guess they used to all just be houses and now they've opened up as cafes. And then when the train comes, you can get a video of it. And it's just incredible. You're inches away from this really fast, old Vietnamese train going by. But then it sometimes has happened where people have gotten too close or they've been on the tracks trying to get a picture and they've either been killed or injured or hurt. I'm not a hundred percent sure.

Klair: 26:05

anyone dying. I remember, like, I've heard of a

Niall Mackay: 26:07

No, I didn't think so.

Klair: 26:09

Um, I mean, I could be

Niall Mackay: 26:10

Yeah.

Klair: 26:10

but I know that there's a few people getting

Niall Mackay: 26:12

No, I don't remember anyone dying either. Yeah. But yeah, people holding, just getting too close to the train basically. So if you do go, don't do that because over the years it has been shut down by authorities, even though it is one of the main tourist attractions. In Hanoi, right?

Klair: 26:26

Yeah, for sure. Um, yeah, I think The last time I went, actually, I went with my cousin who's from Scotland as well. And, uh, we were sat there and he was like, this is And even the cafe owner, he was like, he was taking the Mick out of tourists. He was like, I don't know why people come here. He was like, it's dangerous, but he's making money off it at the same time. He was a cafe of money in, but he's got a good point. She wouldn't. I mean, would you, in Scotland or in England, if someone said to you, go next to a train track and have a cup of coffee, you'd be like, no, you're mad. But it works.

Niall Mackay: 27:01

Well, so we have the metro opening here now. It's literally now open for trials and it's really, really exciting. But we were talking about it the other day. One of the things that I foresee could happen, right? Obviously, Vietnam, they have trains, right? They're not like idiots. They know how the world works, but they've never had a metro. And my worry is that maybe somebody would realize they're on the wrong platform. And just think I'll just jump across the tracks to get to the other side because things like train street or wherever like that's not like a, I've been to train stations all over Southeast Asia. That's not crazy to go like, Oh, I want to get there. I'll just walk across the tracks because it's not like the West. It's not like the UK where that would be. You'd probably be fined and jailed if you did something like that. And some of these stations that they've built here in Saigon, I mean, if you wanted to get to the other side, you're going to have to go all the way down, cross a highway on an overpass or underpass, then climb back. Like, it's not going to be that quick and easy. So I was saying to Adrian, I'd be worried in the beginning when people don't exactly know the rules that they might just. Cross the tracks and potentially be hit.

Klair: 28:04

I didn't even think of that, but yeah, I can understand where you're coming from. I actually saw it open. I think I saw a Vietnam news or some, one of the news outlets, it came up saying it opened this week. So that's kind

Niall Mackay: 28:14

Finally here. It's exciting. we

Klair: 28:17

to get one, but it never happened. But I think it's happening. It hasn't happened yet.

Niall Mackay: 28:22

one day, so we go to train street in the morning. We have a coffee. We watched the train go by

Klair: 28:27

Okay. I think one of the main things you need to do as well is do a street food tour. Hanoi, in my opinion, has got some of the best food in Vietnam, but I don't want to get into a debate about this the food, for those that haven't been to Vietnam, the food changes a lot. region by region. So we've got like northern food, central, southern, and then all little bit pockets in between. Um, but I would always recommend someone to do a street food tour, um, like a half day tour maybe and just try all the local dishes and do it more traditionally because obviously there's, I don't know if there's higher end Vietnamese restaurants you can go to and try it, but I think the best food you'll always find is on the street, no matter where you are in Vietnam.

Niall Mackay: 29:08

and I've, I've made this statement before and it was controversial, but I stick by it. The dirtier the place, the better the food.

Klair: 29:15

Yeah, and the more locals there, the better. Like, that's the thing, you go, that's how I've always trusted, because I get a lot of people back home being like, Are you not afraid about, like, food poisoning? Now, I will say, I've been here a long time, so I think my stomach's probably changed over time. But, I think when I first got here even, because I'd done a bit of traveling in Southeast Asia already, my general thoughts before going in a place would be, if it's full of local people, it's going to be good food, and it's generally going to be safe to eat. that's how I would judge it.

Niall Mackay: 29:47

Yeah, a hundred percent. All right. So we go on a food tour. Then what next? And what food, sorry, what dishes would you recommend? Cause I do know the food in Hanoi is different and it is meant to be amazing.

Klair: 29:57

Bun cha. Oops. Uh,

Niall Mackay: 30:00

favorite.

Klair: 30:01

Banh Khoan?

Niall Mackay: 30:03

Don't know that one.

Klair: 30:04

don't know Banh Khoan? Oh, I thought that was So it's like, uh, really thin, like, uh, like a batter made out of rice flour. then this If you look up a video of it on YouTube, the way the women make it is amazing. And I say women because generally it's men. Mostly women doing it. They're really thin and then they fold them over, kind of like a really thin pancake, but it's not a pancake, so. Anyway, then you have wood ear mushroom, pork, um, and there's other toppings you can get as well, like different types of like Chinese sausage and things, dip it in like a fish sauce.

Niall Mackay: 30:34

is it like Banh Xeo?

Klair: 30:36

Not as, it's not crispy at all like Bang Sio.

Niall Mackay: 30:39

Okay, right, right. Oh, I don't know that one then.

Klair: 30:42

Put a picture in see what it is. Um, I do here. And then, what else? Okay, so I'm not a fan of this, but I think everyone should try it. Uh, Bundo Mam Tom. Have you ever had Mam Tom?

Niall Mackay: 30:57

I have, and I want you to explain what it is, but I had it without the Mam Tom.

Klair: 31:02

Okay, so you had the, you had the Bundo, and then stop,

Niall Mackay: 31:06

Yeah, everything else but the Mam Tom.

Klair: 31:08

Okay, so Mamtom is, uh, it's like a dipping sauce. So it's like a grey purple colour. It's very smelly. it's made from, I don't know, I explain it, it's gonna sound terrible. But, people do

Niall Mackay: 31:22

It's because it is terrible.

Klair: 31:24

It's not, okay, so it's my husband's favourite Vietnamese food. And it's, I don't, It's the one thing

Niall Mackay: 31:31

It's like durian, it's divisive.

Klair: 31:33

mm hmm, it's one thing that I won't, won't allow, that sounds terrible, that I don't want in our house. He has to eat it outside of the house. Um, but it's made from fermented shrimps. It's, I think that's what, and it's like ground up,

Niall Mackay: 31:49

Was it fermented tofu? I can't remember.

Klair: 31:51

No, no, it's not fermented tofu, it's just the fermented shrimp in the, in the sauce, but then you dip

Niall Mackay: 31:55

Sounds, sounds even worse.

Klair: 31:58

dip tofu

Niall Mackay: 31:59

Yeah. Right. That's it.

Klair: 32:00

and things like that.

Niall Mackay: 32:01

Some people love it. Some people hate it. I can't even stomach it. I smelled the sauce and I was like, no, but the rest of the stuff is like tofu, fresh veggies and noodles and you can dip it in fish sauce. So you can have Boon Dao Mam Tom without the Mam Tom and it's still delicious.

Klair: 32:16

Yeah, yeah, you can, and it's just not as fun. Um, yeah, and then also, um, a part of a food tour you could do as well, like the egg coffee as well, or the big one now up here is salted coffee. Cafe Moi.

Niall Mackay: 32:30

That's big here as well. Yeah.

Klair: 32:32

Yeah.

Niall Mackay: 32:32

delicious. It's so sweet. It's not salty. It's more sweet than salty, I think.

Klair: 32:36

And it's like salted caramel. It's a bit like salted

Niall Mackay: 32:39

Yeah.

Klair: 32:40

But yeah, I would say definitely go and get like egg coffee as well, if you can do that as part of a food tour. Or you can do that yourself. There's a famous place in Hanoi called Cafe Giang. Um, and that's That's I think known as like one of the places that started Ed Coffee, so we used to take people there on the, uh, walking tour that I used to do, so that's definitely a good recommendation.

Niall Mackay: 33:00

That's by Hoan Kiem Lake, right? That one?

Klair: 33:03

Yeah, there's actually a

Niall Mackay: 33:04

Or is it another one?

Klair: 33:05

a, it's a bit

Niall Mackay: 33:06

Oh, okay. Right. Oh,

Klair: 33:10

bit further out, I think there's a few more as well, but we used to take people to, not the one right by the lake, a little bit further back. Go to a bia hoi. Bia hoi culture is amazing. Uh, we, we've spoken a bit about it in the fact that it's not necessarily, I thought, I always thought it was something that was Vietnam wide. didn't know it was mainly a Hanoi thing. Um, for those that don't know what Beer Hoi is, it's basically like an outdoor little bar, you've got little stalls and you can get cheap beer and it's usually about 10k a glass, about 25 cents, isn't it? Something like that.

Niall Mackay: 33:46

I mean, we actually went to a Bia Hoi here recently in Saigon, and it was 7k a glass.

Klair: 33:51

Oh, so you've got slightly cheap

Niall Mackay: 33:53

It's so big. It's slightly cheaper. I bet it's, your point is though, it's so cheap. But the difference is, right, so it's Bia Hoi translates as fresh beer, right? And it's brewed every day, and it's only 3%, I think. It's quite weak, so you can drink lots of it without getting that drunk.

Klair: 34:12

Yeah, I think, um, the good thing about B& O as well though is, and I'm not, because it sounds like my whole day I've just planned so far for us is food and drink, but it is, but one of the good things about B& O is you get to mix with local people, expats, you can also just watch random things that happen on the streets, depending where you are, like you can see what's going on and just people watch, which is one of my favourite things to do when I travel to a new city or country.

Niall Mackay: 34:38

One of my favorite memories of Vietnam and of Hanoi was when we first came in 2015 and we went to a Bia Hoi in Hanoi, and it was just such a, just, I wouldn't say culture shock, I mean, I guess, not so shocking, but just such a cultural experience. And this place was In terms of hygiene and cleanliness, this place was a minus 10. It was absolutely disgusting. The toilet had about an inch of water in it. Nobody wanted to use the bathroom. The whole place was disgusting. Just trash everywhere. Cause I didn't realize at the time, that's a kind of Vietnam thing as well as you just put your trash on the floor. And then as soon as you leave, they'll clean it all up, but they don't do it until you leave. So there's just trash everywhere. Peanut shells. scraps of food, but oh my goodness, the food was incredible. I remember we had so much tofu and they bring out the beers and these big, massive plastic jugs. And I think the jugs themselves were like 3 or something like that. They were huge. And there was four or five of us. And we're just sitting there pouring beer nonstop eating. We were there for a couple of hours, but because it's not. uh, high strength because it's quite low strength. You know, you have like a nice buzz, but then you walk away and the buzz wears off pretty quickly and you can go about your day. You're not like staggering out of the place. It's, and it was just one of the best experiences I had in Vietnam. And so yeah, Bia Hoi culture, to live in Hanoi and just have that on your doorstep would be pretty incredible. Bia Hoi has moved down here now, but it's not The same as, as Hanoi, obviously. Nice. Uh,

Klair: 36:14

is they've always had, um, Vodka Hanoi. what I've always drank when I've gone there. So generally, and I was actually down there recently because a friend of mine was here and I've got a bunch of friends that still go to our, like our local beer boy, but it's not near where we live. It's just, we went there all the time then you get a big bottle of vodka Hanoi and like loads of cans and mixes and everyone's just sharing it about, but now they have like ciders and stuff there. It's weird in the beer boys, there are ciders and other drinks that you can have.

Niall Mackay: 36:43

Getting fancy. But vodka Hanoi is also not very strong either as a vodka. Most vodkas I think are like 43 percent or something like that. I think vodka Hanoi is like 20, 30%? I know it's not very strong.

Klair: 36:55

It's around 30%. Um, yeah, that's the other problem that you drink it. You just kind of pour, you're not in a bar where they serve you it. You're just like at a table.

Niall Mackay: 37:03

Yeah. Yeah.

Klair: 37:04

I've a friend, I'm going to call him out. His name's Chris. And he will literally, we call it Chris pour and it's a beer Hoy glass. And he will put like half of it of vodka. He's like, Oh, Claire, have a Chris pour, have a bit more. I'm like, no, I need to leave. Um, it is dangerous

Niall Mackay: 37:21

to meet Chris.

Klair: 37:22

Yeah, come up.

Niall Mackay: 37:23

I want to meet Chris when I come to Hanoi. So, right, this sounds like my kind of day. I mean, food, beverage, alcohol, train station, food, Bia Hoi. What we're going to do on day two, just quickly, culturally stuff, so not all people are like me and you that just want to go out and get drunk and eat food. But if you want to do some cultural stuff,

Klair: 37:43

If you're looking for a bit more culture. Okay. So I was going to give you, so there's a few things you could drive out to Bachang Ceramic Village. Bachang is, they make like all the pottery and things there. So you can actually make things yourself. Uh, you can have a wander around the museum to look at the history of ceramics, um, in that area. And there's also like a shop. You can buy a lot of things that are all handmade, hand painted, um, And a lot of them will be unique items as well. There's also a lot of things that are mass produced, but you can buy things that are cheap. So if you want some good souvenirs to take home, that's a good one. There's also a bunch of museums. Um, there's the, the prison, Howlow Prison. I was probably saying that wrong, Howlow Prison, the

Niall Mackay: 38:26

well, I only know it as the Hanoi Hilton.

Klair: 38:29

yeah, I've heard it called that as well, but yeah. Okay, so Hanoi Hilton slash Howlow, uh, or the prison, and then you've got the Ethnology Museum and the Women's Museum. Those are my top three with the museums. There are a lot more, depending what your interests are, but I would say those would be my top three ones to go to.

Niall Mackay: 38:50

And the Hanoi Hilton is famous because that's where John McCain was held, wasn't it? Which most people will know the American senator.

Klair: 38:58

yeah, he, I think, wasn't it a bit, think someone paid tribute to him recently when they came over, one, uh, maybe it was Joe Biden when he came here. A lot of presidents have been here, a lot of world leaders, all the roads get closed down. That's why, you know, people are here. Like when Obama was crazy. When Trump was here, it went crazy.

Niall Mackay: 39:17

Well, I did want to add, sorry, I remembered one thing, which when we were talking about food and where to go, we didn't mention Buncha Obama.

Klair: 39:24

Oh, do we have to?

Niall Mackay: 39:28

I think we have to.

Klair: 39:30

Okay, so in fairness, I haven't been there, right? But I've heard from a lot of people that have been there that it's not their favourite, I'm going to put it that way, it's not their favourite. I think one of the reasons it was picked is because obviously logistically they have to have somewhere where they can have all the security and kind of people watching out for the president. Don't get me wrong, I haven't heard it's bad, I just have, I've heard it's not the one, and it's now obviously living off. I think it's got the table that him and Bourdain ate on. They've got it in glass now.

Niall Mackay: 40:04

for sure. I had just a guy that I just met that was on the podcast recently. Nick was up there because he's touring Vietnam and I can confirm it is glassed off and it is a living monument to Bourdain and Obama having Bun Cha there. What I think though is the funniest thing is the last time I was in Hanoi, there are now so many places that call themselves Bun Cha and they, he never went there.

Klair: 40:27

Yeah, I was about to say actually there's a few places that I've walked past and kind of there's a picture. They've obviously got it from something else. It's like a picture of Obama with his thumb up like this. And then it's just on the side of the side. But that's the thing here, as you know, like living here, you see so many, um, businesses that will use pictures of celebrities. or famous people to kind of get people in. There's a barbershop kind of near here, and I think there's a picture of Messi on the outside. Um, and the same with, there was, um, a restaurant, I think it's still about, maybe it's changed its name, it's got a picture of Mo Salah, the footballer. They just use all these

Niall Mackay: 41:04

Yeah,

Klair: 41:05

like,

Niall Mackay: 41:06

there's no way that's an official image that has been endorsed by Mozart, but that might be a Hanoi thing because I actually haven't seen that in so much.

Klair: 41:14

Oh, okay, maybe it's just us up here trying to rip things off, I don't know. I

Niall Mackay: 41:18

So what else would we do to round off our second day of final tips in Hanoi? So we've done the cultural stuff, we've had food, we've had beers, we've had Bun Cha Obama, we've seen the shrine to Bourdain and What else?

Klair: 41:31

would say try and go to a different area that's not just the old quarter and not just museums. And I'm not going to say go Tay Ho, because It's just because of where I live. There's a place, and I think you might know, if you do comedy, you'd probably know There's a famous comedy bar there called Standing Bar, so might know the

Niall Mackay: 41:49

I know what you're talking about.

Klair: 41:50

Yeah.

Niall Mackay: 41:51

I've not performed there, but I know the area. There's a good Mexican place here, although it was eight years ago when I went. I don't know if it's still there.

Klair: 41:56

See, Chirkback I love, and I actually always wanted to live there, but we never have. But they've got some really nice little hidden away bars next to a lake, or there's also these like swan pedalos you can get on. It's just a quieter area. that's still not quite as built up as Tahoe, but it's not as busy or touristy as the Old Quarter, and it's in between as well. Because most people, let's face it, when they come here to travel, they're going to get a hotel or an Airbnb in either the Old Quarter or Tahoe. So as much as I'd love to talk about other districts, people aren't generally staying there. So if you're having your final night, I would say go to Chitrack. an amazing cocktail bar, if I can mention the name of it, called Yeah, called Langtang. Langtang's been around for years and it's this teeny tiny little hole in the wall cocktail place they do amazing cocktails. They're like, their menu is like handwritten and it's just, it's just a cute little place and the staff are lovely but you can watch the world go by. It's kind of near the lake as well, um, I would say to end it there and get some street food. Main street foods in that area is pho quang, is like the pho noodles, but rolled up to make, um, like spring rolls almost. And they have beef and greens and things in them. I think it's a nice end to the night. Otherwise, look up some rooftop cocktail places as well, if you want to go higher up. Yay!

Niall Mackay: 43:23

and no, I remember now, Chuuk Bak, I remember that we went there and yeah, it is an awesome place and there's a few bars around there and things like that. So thank you so much for this, Claire. I'm so excited to hear all of this. It's made me really excited to come back to Hanoi. I will come up one day and. We'll definitely meet up and we'll have some Bun Cha, Obama. We'll have some Bunda, Bunda Mam Tom, and we will definitely 100 percent be having some beer Hanoi and vodka Hanoi.

Klair: 43:50

you, when you can't, please let me know. And bring Paul with you as well. He needs to come back up. Bring Paul Villanova back up.

Niall Mackay: 43:57

I will do for sure. Thank you so much for this Claire. This has been amazing. Thank you for tuning in. Really appreciate it that you actually. Listen, watch this podcast. It means the world to me. I think I would have given this up years ago, but the fact that people still watch it and enjoy it, it's absolutely incredible. So don't forget followers on Facebook, obviously, Instagram, go on patreon. com forward slash a Vietnam podcast, and you can become a Bap Sao Deo and join our community, which means you will get episodes before anyone else. And we're going to start doing more events in the new year as well. And. If you can, please rate, review, subscribe, follow, turn on notifications, do all that amazing stuff. And the best thing that you can do is share this podcast with someone else who loves Vietnam and wants to know more about the people and the culture here as well. So thank you so much for this Claire. This has been amazing.

Klair: 44:46

It's been an absolute pleasure. So nice to meet you. And thank you for making me go from nervous to just talking your ear off, which is, I've known to do it. But thank you for keeping me on your show.

Niall Mackay: 44:58

You are very welcome. Cheers.

Klair: 45:00

Thank you.