Discover Why Life in North and South Vietnam are so different | S13 E06 Viet Anh

“In the south it's always more dynamic. Everyone is just moving around all the time. In the north, it's slower. People are a bit meaner.” - Viet Anh

For nearly ten years now, I've called Vietnam home, and while I've experienced the incredible energy and warmth of the south, Viet Anh's perspective on the north offered a viewpoint I hadn't fully considered. It's fascinating how regional differences can shape the experience of living in the same country.

We touched on the sometimes-surprising toxicity that can bubble up online, both within expat communities and among Vietnamese internet users. It's a stark contrast to the welcoming spirit I've largely encountered here. We also reflected on how things change over time – from cinema etiquette to the increasing polarization of opinions, it feels like the Vietnam I first encountered is constantly evolving.

Key Takeaways:
- There are perceived significant differences in pace and demeanor between the north and south of Vietnam.
- Online toxicity is a notable issue within expat and Vietnamese online communities.
- Cultural norms and perspectives are constantly evolving in Vietnam.
- Stereotypes about foreigners in Vietnam, particularly English teachers, exist and need to be addressed.
- The economic contribution of foreigners in Vietnam is often misunderstood, with many filling roles that locals don't typically pursue.

Chapters and Timestamps:
05:59: Discussion on Online Toxicity    
10:59: Changing Perspectives and Behaviors Over Time    
14:59: Stereotypes of Foreigners in Vietnam    
24:00: Economic Contributions of Foreign Workers    

Transcript

Viet Anh

Viet Anh: [00:00:00] When you were growing up and you see like,

"Okay, people in the north are a bit more, you know, stiff and the way they work bit different."

In the south it's always more dynamic. Everyone is just moving around all the time. In the north, it's slower. People are a bit meaner. You don't see people going from the south to the north to work.. 

Niall: That's a really good point. So no Vietnamese 

people go from Saigon to Hanoi.

No 

Viet Anh: no. 

No, no, no, one moved upstreams.

Niall: Welcome to a Vietnam podcast with me, your host, Niall Mackay. I started this podcast back in 2019 'cause I wanted to get to know people in Saigon, and now I've gotten to know people from all over Vietnam, all over the world, and all the connection of connected to Vietnam and sharing this story.

I've been here nearly 10 years now. It first came in 2015. Fell in love with Vietnam. I was just talking to somebody today about how it's really hard to describe what exactly it is that [00:01:00] you fall in love with about Vietnam. Whether it's the food, the people, the weather, the energy. It's just everything. And so first came 2015, came back in 2016.

For just six weeks and have basically never left. So I'm really, really excited for today's guest. Another episode of a Vietnam podcast is always exciting. My guest today, I met at a networking event a while ago. We've done some work together for a Vietnam podcast. He's an amazing designer. He's from the north, married to someone from De La.

And lives in Saigon and works for an Englishman, so he has an interesting perspective on all of those different things. He is the co-founder of WinDor. And he owns the Snake Cup that Craig Ferguson owns, that if you are a fan of Craig Ferguson, the late night talk show host in America, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

I had no idea I had to go and Google it this morning to find out what the hell he was talking about. It's a pretty cool, crazy snake cup. So let's start right there. My guest today is via [00:02:00] Ann Congu. Thank you very much for joining on a Vietnam podcast, and where the hell did you get a sneak cup from?

you for 

Viet Anh: Thank you for having me.

So, yeah, Craig Ferguson was always my favorite, uh, comedian and, uh, talk show host and, uh, I've always wanted to have the cup that he had on the show and that was my wise gift to me. This, uh, my birthday, uh, last

month So, yeah, so that's where I 

Niall: So

do you watch the show holding the cup and drinking out of

Viet Anh: Well, yeah, I mean, I've, I've seen most of the things on the show, so I, I, well, he has a podcast as well now, so I do listen

to him All 

Niall: guys a podcast. It's like we, I think every white guy, like at certain age, it's just like you have to have a podcast and if you have a build then you doubly have to have a podcast as

Viet Anh: Yeah, yeah. I mean, uh, too, I mean, too tired to actually go work and then just in your garage, have a mic and then [00:03:00] just talk about random But it's good to have, you know, he has a big fan base and you know, people listen to him. So yeah, that's, yeah, that's where I, yeah.

Niall: And he's from Glasgow as well. Same as me, right?

Viet Anh: Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. understand him? Yeah. Reasonably well because, well, yeah. I mean, I grew up with. The internet, right. So when the internet came to Vietnam and sort of when YouTube started, uh, when YouTube's really, you know, a, a big thing, uh, 20 11, 20 12, uh, that's when I watched a lot of YouTube videos.

And then I listened to, you know, all kind of people like American, British, and Scottish. So get used to it.

Niall: Yeah. But love how when I ask could you understand them, your answer was reasonably well. It wasn't no problem at all. I was like, oh, I'm reasonably Well, it's kinda typical for the Scottish accent.

Viet Anh: yeah, I don't think you guys understand each other very [00:04:00] well Not really

Niall: Scotland, I can barely understand what anyone says. I'm like listening intently for what, what they said. So you, uh, lived, so Yuba brought up in the north.

Viet Anh: Yeah. Yeah.

Niall: I was gonna say, you mentioned like before the internet, but I'm old enough like I was born in Scotland, but I know what it was like to to be bombed without the internet.

But I do meet a lot of people that have learned English by exactly what you just said, like watching videos, which blows my mind. 'cause I can barely speak to, I can barely count to 10 in Vietnamese and I've been here for 10 years. I've always been terrible with languages. Like I studied French in high school for years.

I honestly can't remember anything apart from like glass, which SIL play, which is one ice cream, please. Yeah, so I'm just terrible at languages, so I don't understand how anyone can learn an engli will learn a language just through the osmosis of watching a YouTube video. Is that how you

learn Sort 

Viet Anh: Sort of, yeah, because you know, you have the privilege, p privilege of um, [00:05:00] uh, you know, uh, having. Content and stuff in English, so you understand most of the thing anyway. So you don't have a need for, you know, to learn a, a new language. Right? So, but as a Vietnamese, there's not a lot of, uh, things, not a lot of interesting things for our.

Sort of age, uh, at that time, uh, except for, you know, overseas stuff, like foreign stuff, then it's always in English. So you have to sort of learn to have, you know, to learn English, to understand them and to sort of, you know, all the entertainment things, movies, music, or in English. So, uh, you sort of have to learn it. to

Niall: Well, when I go to the movies, you know, in Vietnam, again, I've been here for so long, I don't know if you know this or you're aware of this, so correct me if you're wrong, if I'm wrong or if you do know this, but when we first came to Vietnam. It was kinda challenging to [00:06:00] go to the movies because Vietnamese people would talk through the movie.

Okay. They would be very loud, talk to each other, take phone calls sometimes, and you would see it in the expat groups. Expats would get frustrated, gonna the movies, 'cause these kinda things happen. And I, I saw a little bit as well and it was frustrating. And it's interesting, I'm bringing it up now because I'm actually gonna, the movies tonight.

But now over the last few years, I didn't realize this till recently. Like I just never see that happen anymore. I think it's culturally changed and maybe Vietnamese people have become begun to learn that you don't go to the movies and have a conversation. But what I did learn though, which again is uh, kind of not me not being cognizant, I guess, of people gonna watch a movie in English, is often that people were talking.

Because they were not understanding what was being said. 'cause we were gonna see an English language movie. We just watch it. Yeah. But there's Vietnamese subtitles and we didn't find out till many years later that actually a lot of those conversations was because somebody didn't understand it. Maybe the Vietnamese [00:07:00] subtitles were too quick or whatnot.

So then they were kind of explaining to each other,

Viet Anh: right? Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably true. And, and also I think that's a bit of a cultural thing as well. We grew up, you know, watching movies and TV at home with parents and with, you know, family, so you.

Actually do discuss it and talk about it. So we never actually learn. We don't, we didn't have theater. Right. Proper, proper theater. Right. That's where probably you got it from then to movie theater that you don't talk in those show, but we just sort of watch it at home and then just like now with a

bigger screen

Niall: but you just 

Viet Anh: So you just keep talking to people that you know, just. You know, your friends and your family just, uh, discuss it a bit. I think it's a bit like 

Niall: thing.

Yeah. And it's just interesting as expats, we come over here and, we'll, I mean, I, you maybe wouldn't have seen this, especially 10 years ago, the expat groups in Saigon, [00:08:00] don't know about Hanoi, but in Saigon were quite toxic. And the problem is. People, obviously people like to complain and they like to complain online.

kind of the first, like where they're gonna run to. What would happen? You could see it. I, I think I probably did it once or twice as well. Something here in a different country, a different culture frustrates you because it's different to what you're used to. So gonna, the movies is just one example of many.

Yeah. Uh, driving would be one of the biggest ones. Now I'm pretty zen when I'm driving, but you know, in the beginning it's what the hell is going on? So movies was one of 'em. So a lot of expats would run to these expat groups, have a ran. you know, this is terrible. Why are the locals doing this?

And then you get the, the counter reaction. So I don't know how much you're aware of this kind of cult expat culture for the longest time, and again, this has died down a lot for the longest time. Any comment on the expat group within five or 10 responses? That would always be somebody that said. But if you don't like it, go back to your

own this yeah,

yeah, [00:09:00] it's and

around the world, it's so racist. It's just like I'm, I'm allowed to have an opinion in a different country. Sometimes the opinion isn't valid. Maybe you need to be more culturally aware. I would definitely be guilty of probably getting angry things.

Not realizing that it's cultural difference, if not been to the movies, whatnot. Then the longer you be here, the longer you live here, you realize that not to go online and have a rant, and then you see other people coming here. They've not been that long having a rant.  And I remember you literally just waiting, just waiting for somebody to see it.

It was just like a game almost. Like who's gonna be the first person to say if you don't like it, go back to your own country.

Um,

 I've noticed that that's kinda stopped though lately.

Viet Anh: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a couple years ago there was some report online. I mean, some organization did it and they ranked Vietnam as the most, one of the most toxic, um, uh, sort of people online. Yeah, because.

Everything you know, because we are online so much so everything. Every time something [00:10:00] happens and everyone just flock into that, you know, um, you to destroy someone's lives almost. You know, like, you know, it happens a lot. And so that's why I think now people just sharing less lock their profiles, know?

Yeah, yeah. Don't let people know about much. Probably a good thing anyways.

Niall: And the thing is, it is the same in every country. I remember just recently we talking to my sister about this, and she lives in Australia. She's an immigrant, she's moved to Australia. I'm gonna sneeze. Hold on. Don't see this.

The stuff will cut out. It's coming. Fuck. Well now it's going away. Alright, and so she's obviously from Scotland, lives in Australia. She said it's the exact same thing. There's the same Facebook groups there. Expat groups, yeah. In Australia. Four people who've moved there post similar things about the Australian community.

So it's not just a a race or a color thing. 'cause they're still white people that speak English, but they'll complain about the way things are done there. And sure enough, somebody will comment within a cinema where you don't 

Viet Anh: home. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but also it [00:11:00] shows, you know how things are now. Like everything has to be sort of. Right or wrong, so no one is taking the middle ground anymore. So no one is considering like, oh, maybe this guy's complaint is a good thing that we should fix, or, or this guy who comes in to a new country probably haven't learned the culture very much so.

He probably need to calm down a bit. Uh, the people who react to him need to calm down a bit. Just find a middle ground, you know, Yeah. The, the, the fence is is 

Niall: I think.

And it's weird. I mean, I feel like when I'm just thinking in my head, like, I started this podcast in 2019. It's now 2025. And just how that change has happened in six years.

I'm still doing this podcast, still talking to people. But the conversations have changed. 'cause that has really, really changed. It never used to be so black and white. Right. You know, like politics for me, talking about this recently with Adrie. For me, [00:12:00] the, the peak of politics was when John McCain was confronted with, uh, someone at a rally.

I don't know if you remember this. John McCain was against Obama for president. And someone called Obama a Muslim. John McCain stopped her and said, no, no, he's not a Muslim. He's a good Christian man. We just have a difference of opinion on politics. short her down, went on with these rally and it's like that's where politics was at its peak.

Right. You can be like, we just have difference of opinion. Yeah. He's a good person. It's fine. No. Yeah. I don't know how many years later that has been, what we 10, 12 years since then? 14 years since then. I can't actually remember, but. Now we are polar opposite. You could never imagine that happening today.

And it's not just politics, it's everything in life. Like the online forums. I don't understand where everyone now has this need to be like I am. Right. Why can nobody say, I don't know? 

Viet Anh: Yeah. And there's no considerations of other people's opinions or feelings anymore. Yeah. I think we need to just sort of like defense our fans, know?

Like, [00:13:00] you know, right in the middle, where is it? You know, stop being, you know, too. and, but, uh, that's how people are. But I think, I feel like there's, you know, there's always something that happen, radical thing that happens. There's always the opposite wave of it. Mm-hmm. Uh, will happen. So I think people will see like, oh, this is this polarizing things.

It's not very good. So.

you know, the middle ground again. 

Niall: Yeah hopefully

Yeah, hopefully. And I remember years ago we went to a political event in Wellington and it was the labor speaker was talking and I think a couple of others as well. Remember we got a chance to speak. So labor in New Zealand is like left leaning, like center left, and then there's the national party center, right?

Then you have the greens far left, right? So I, I'd probably identify more with the greens, but I can understand labor as well. National Party, not at all. And I remember talking to the labor leader, or not labor leader, labor, uh, member of parliament afterwards, and I said, well, why [00:14:00] do the greens make these promises?

But then you don't make as, as strong promises. And what she said was, is because we might govern and they won't. I. And, New Zealand is a bit different 'cause it's not first past, past the post. It's kind of mixed. Um, you know, they can govern a little bit, but at the end of the day she's like, labor have a stronger chance of making the government.

Yeah. So we can't make these extreme promises. They can make them knowing that they'll never have to really do them But we need them, and this is what I loved, is we do need. Right wing. I hate to say that, do we? I don't think we do. But anyway, we need the extremes on both ends. Because what they do they pull those center left parties and those center right parties away from the middle a little bit.

And if we didn't have those extreme viewpoints, then it would become narrow. Yeah. So I think maybe I'm trying to tie that into what you're saying though, is hopefully we'll be cyclical 'cause we've gone really narrow in our viewpoint. So hopefully people will pull them out a bit, but I'm not too sure.

 But what I wanted to ask what The Vietnamese viewpoint of foreigners, is that, 'cause you mentioned about the online thing. Is [00:15:00] that, uh, polarizing? Is it, do people have very specific views of foreigners? Because I think that's something that does come up in expat groups. Something negative, something positive comes up in real life as well.

And for someone who has an, well, we're gonna talk about your experiences throughout the country. 'cause you're not sese, you're from Hanoi and have your wife is from. So that gives you a lot of different perspectives. So from all those different perspectives where the foreigners fit in

Viet Anh: well, hmm.

I think it's has changed a a little bit as well because, um, back then, um, I don't know, 15 years ago there was not a lot of, um, foreigners working in Vietnam. So the people who work in Vietnam was. With the one that, you know, uh, really high ranking in their position management, that sort of position. And they were brought into the country to help, you know, uh, building, uh, companies in the country [00:16:00] in, in, in general.

Um, but now, uh, there's a lot more job opportunities that needs more foreigners, so. All kind of foreigners will come in. And so I think the perspective of Vietnamese towards foreigners have changed in that, you know, uh, way more respect to a bit more like, oh, okay. There are many different kind of people as well.

So, uh, there's always a joke like, oh, he's, um, you know, uh. Teachers in Vietnam is English. Teachers in Vietnam is never really, um, uh, sort of well looked on. Mm. Right. So, uh, which is sometimes true, but there, you know, there are a lot, there are a lot of something or certain. Type people then you, you would see a lot more, uh, personalities and different ways people behave, you know?

But I'm [00:17:00] sure like majority of foreigners, teachers even are nice, but the bad ones stand out, you know?

Niall: Well that actually, uh, leads me to what I was gonna talk about and ask about next because that is the problem, right? So you have, uh, more and more foreign teachers coming. And I also wanted to add as well, 'cause I had this conversation today with, uh, somebody in America. So when we see the word foreign or foreigner, did you, do you realize that that has a negative connotation in the west?

In the UK and America. Yeah. So if I was in the UK and I was to call someone a foreigner, it would almost be derogatory. Oh yeah. Like it almost like racist to be, well, I mean, 'cause normally you wouldn't call someone white skinned a foreigner. mostly you'd to a foreigner as somebody from country with dark skin.

Right? Right. And I was talking to this person in America and I, I mentioned a foreigner, and I was like, oh, by the way, I'm not using that in a derogatory sense because here in Vietnam, Vietnamese call foreigners. Foreigners, right? Like, if you're not from, just a [00:18:00] foreigner. Yeah. And it's, I love it because it's just a true meaning of the word.

There's no, um, I know that I don't think there is anyway. Right. There's no derogatory meaning to it. It just means you're from another country. if you're listening to this and you hear us talk about a foreigner. We are talking about it in the Vietnamese sense with no negative connotation, uh, like, like the other countries.

So to go back, this is why I asked you this question, right? Because I've seen some things online as well from foreigners, not just Vietnamese, that there is a stereotype of some, and let's say mostly English teachers, unfortunately 'cause. So this is the other, this is the other problem. There's that like a little bit of a low barrier to entry, Sorry,

Deep out, didn't yeah, yeah, It's still recording. Yeah. Um, yeah. So within, mm. There's a little bit of a low barrier to injury, right. To teaching English. Not all schools. Some have a higher bar barrier to entry. Some have really low. I mean, I heard stories when I first came here of any backpacker walking down the street in Vietnam, could get a job as an English teacher. then happened to me. So I'd just finished or [00:19:00] was finishing my SE course, which is. Basically, oh no. Which is basically like the gold standard of English teaching. It's the best, as far as I know. I'm pretty sure it's the best teaching qualification you can get. It just so happened to be walking down Bo vn, which the only reason we're walking down Boian is 'cause of the way we were learning teach English was at the end of that street.

Sure enough, middle-aged white guy walked by me and went, Hey, do you want earn $20 and hour teaching something? I can't remember exact money. It was so long ago now. But you know, and I was kind of like, you know, it did pique my interest because I had just qualified as a teacher. But I was like, no, no, I'm okay.

 So I think that did happen. I don't know if it still does. Maybe. Maybe it does, but. I think that, uh, helps with that negative perception of any white person can be an English teacher. The English teaching standards can be quite low. There's an influx of these foreigners. I mean, not even, I saw a homeless white guy just last week.

Doesn't happen very often at all. But there is this, so that's why I wanna get your take on this from a Vietnamese perspective. Do they see [00:20:00] those, the extreme versions, they're alcoholics. health issues. There is a thing that we never really talk about with, uh, the, might be sex offenders. That definitely happens as well.

It happens in every country. Some people come to Vietnam to escape or to do, to do illegal things as well. But for me, and I get defensive on this because I worked at a good English school. I worked, I had a good qualification. I know lots and lots of English teachers. Who are all really good people all have a degree in so many different fields, then have a different qualification and are very good people and very good English teachers. But then there's this perception of these freeloading foreigners that are coming over, and I see that probably more from the HX Pap perspective. So to go back to my question, what's the perspective of foreigners and English teachers from the Vietnamese perspective?, 

Viet Anh: Yeah, I mean a bit. Pretty much exactly like you said as well. Um, uh. You know, I had friends who, when we were in university, [00:21:00] he was French, right? Uh, doesn't speak English that well, but as long as you are. White tall. He got a pretty good job of like tutoring English at a private, um, home. So earning like a huge amount of money.

So it's a bit like, oh, okay, you see that firsthand? You would be like, okay, so actually anyone can be, you know that as long as you certain type of, you skin color and stuff like that. But. Um, but yeah, like, like you said, also most teachers, you know, probably are really people and like a, you know, decent person as well.

So, um, yeah, the bad stand out, like also in as the Vietnamese, um. overseas, uh, Vietnamese, uh, um, has some certain type of, um, stereotypes as well, right? Like, you know, uh, [00:22:00] in the UK probably, uh, selling weed and growing we at home, but most people don't do that, right? But there's, I don't think there's any point arguing like, ah, we are not like that, you know, against these people because they always, they're not gonna change their mind as long as you are doing your job well.

Um, being a decent person and you are in a good community, and it's sort of eventually will show, I think, 'cause just the bad with the bad ones will just, um, um, slowly, hopefully. And also, I think, uh, slowly the barrier is, is getting a bit higher and higher. So more qualified people come in, you know, uh, the Vietnamese, know, uh, English.

Uh, it is getting much better. Then parents are getting more and more knowledgeable about English as well, so they know what is good and what is not very good. So slowly that barrier [00:23:00] race

Niall: So I, I talk about stereotypes a lot because I do think. Uh, it's an important, it's an important thing to talk about, and there's a few different stereotypes of foreigners. So one is that they're all wealthy. We've heard, this was 10 years ago. What we've heard that, I don't know if you ever heard of the phrase, bag of foreigner. Free bag? No, not free bag. I dunno what that could be bad. Just bag. Bag a foreigner. So catch one of her friends started dating a Vietnamese guru. They're now married to have children. Beautiful. But when they first started dating, it was another expat said to him, oh, be careful. She's just trying to bag a foreigner.

Uh apparently it was a thing that some Vietnamese gurus just wanna. Attached to foreigner. 'cause they're all rich. Then you have a lot of these English teachers, not just English teachers. A lot of people come over. They're not rich. I'm, I'm not rich. I didn't come over here, rich, and I'm still not rich, but.

They, they have that certain stereotype, right? But then there are those expats that you talked about that come over to run companies. Like I meet them, I go to networking events, I [00:24:00] go to lunches, B breakfast. You meet these people who are the CEO of some massive national, international company and probably make seven figure incomes.

And they're massively wealthy. Yeah. And often have a Vietnamese wife, but that maybe so. Yeah. What do Vietnamese people about the chatter online? Do people, are they negative? Like, oh, these people come over, they take our jobs, they take our money, go back to their own country, are they? Or is it everything in between?

Viet Anh: Um, not yet. yet. Yeah. I think eventually, somehow we'll get to that point Yeah.

Of people saying like, you know, you are stealing jobs, you know, but right now we do need a lot of foreigners coming in than a lot more experienced people in a. Very, you know, developed, uh, countries coming over to help us. Uh, so that's not happening yet. I good. Yeah. So, but typically people say that to, you know, um, foreigners coming in who would, um, steal the, uh, low [00:25:00] income jobs, right?

Like in America and, you know, other countries, uh, and, uh. The people who complain about it are actually people who sort of, uh, in a lower income background as well, so that they say that to, um, uh, you know, management PE position people or, or English, even English

teachers Very point 

Niall: point because Yeah, exactly what you just said. People overseas and often get incited by politicians are railing against people stealing the low income jobs. And let's be honest, Vietnam low income jobs pay about a dollar, $2 an hour. There's no foreigners coming over here stealing those jobs because they could do back home and make seven times as much, even in a low income So that's a really interesting point. The other stereotype I wanted to ask about, because we've just had reunification, Dave, which, and obviously massive celebration, whether it's in full celebration or not. Massive celebration of the reunification of North and South. Now, we've talked about this on the podcast before. [00:26:00] Continuing on the theme we're talking about, what's the stereotype or the stereotypical view of Americans in Vietnam?

Oh, um, I think 

Viet Anh: Oh um I 

Niall: American

Why? That's why I I I know 

Viet Anh: I, I mean, I know that's 

Niall: I don't know if I know 

Viet Anh: the answer. Why? Uh, interesting, Like, um, huge, um, massive war went on and then in couple of decades everything is sort of fine.

You know, like, um, I don't know, uh, why we behave that way, but we, I think we, um. Uh, there's a saying I think in English as well, like, uh, forgive, but don't forget, right? So you do learn about what happened. But, um, in general, I think Vietnamese people are pretty peaceful people. We don't want to fight. We don't want to start war.

Some do, most people don't. And, uh, [00:27:00] uh, that's why we sort of forgive because we know that, you know, none of these people did what, um, you know, their grandparents was, or, or even not, their grandparents didn't. Choose to go

Niall: them are here 

Viet Anh: forced

Yeah. Yeah. So I think we, people understand that and uh, uh, sort of moving forward is, you know, uh, America's the biggest economy in the world.

We have to work with them. Um. We do, you know, partnership with them 

Niall: stuff all the time. it's

about right? Like they got the money and we want It

helps you forgive

Viet Anh: way

And you look forward to the future. Not to the past too much. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, going back to the celebration, um, it's.

I think it's, um, they, they did a really good

celebration, a lot of, um, uh, people will love the [00:28:00] country more. I think it feels like that. It feels like it's, um, sort of making people really Mm-hmm. Uh, with that, uh, show of. Power of, um, growth, uh, how, you know, how far we've gone.

We've come in, uh, 50 years. And, uh, people really, I think, um, enjoy the, the, the celebration and also looking 

Niall: the future as well. 

Viet Anh: as

Niall: It was incredible. I mean, I was there, so go back, you can check out a couple of my videos.

I did a video of the parade of the practice parade of the reunification day. We got up at four 30 in the morning and it was nuts. The streets was just packed with people. I haven't read, do you? We estimated there was 3 million people on the streets, but that was just a guess. Did you read about how many people were on the street? I seen videos from above. I mean, I honestly think 3 million is a decent estimate. I could be totally wrong, but it was just incredible. So go back on our YouTube [00:29:00] channel, watch, find those videos, and the people's excitement was incredible. So one of the top comments I got on my video was, uh.

People were going crazy and getting excited about the traffic police. Oh yeah. About the CSGT. Oh, yeah. I commented, which I've, I didn't even realize made it onto the video, but I commented kinda quietly to lose. I went, people normally say Doll man, when they say, when they see the CSGT and then on when the reunification week, uh, people will celebrate and running up and getting pictures with them.

And I was what is going on? This is just. Crazy. And then as soon as the they, they were celebrating the police. But as soon as the police started telling them what to do and where to go and, and to move that, that, uh, for the police died

Viet Anh: quickly. Yeah. We have, well, my wife and I joke about like, you know, when we. Because they block all the roads, right?

It was huge, um, pain to go anywhere. And, uh, we were joking like, oh, you should, you know, if you see these police guys who were [00:30:00] actually doing the job, like directing, uh, people, uh, directing the traffic, you should go up to them and say thank you because they are the ugly ones because they couldn't get the Perez because, you know, you have to be really tall.

Really good looking.

Niall: Yeah, that, that's probably true, right?

'cause the girls were going crazy. It was like a rock concert. The were going nuts, running up, getting pictures. But I'll tell you something funny that happened. So on the way home from the re reunification parade, the Jets and everything on the 30th, so we were up I think we woke up at three 30 in the morning.

We were in district one by four 30. home by like nine 30 or 10 or something like that. Traffic was obviously crazy. Cra like way crazier than normal. I know traffic's crazy here, but like traffic was crazy. And we got stuck at a light just near here going onto the Maita Highway and it was being controlled by the policeman.

By the Pikachu? By the The CSGT. Yeah. And so it wasn't like automatic, you know, you [00:31:00] could see them telling it on and off. And it was boiling hot, like it's really hot this time of year. We're in the sun, no shade. And they just weren't changing it. And we could just see the traffic keep going and everyone was starting to get frustrated.

You could tell people were laughing 'cause everyone's in good mood, but people were getting annoyed and it went just so long. Three, four minutes we're baking in the sun, people were starting to honk. My wife Adrie was driving. She started to honk. Other people were honking, trying to get their attention like you need fucking change this light.

Yeah I got so annoyed I got off the bike and walked over to them in front of 

Viet Anh: of 

Niall: Yeah, no. I'm a, as you knew already, I'm a very nice guy and I'm, I'm not confrontational at all, but I did storm over there mostly 'cause it was just hot 

Viet Anh: it was just hot and I had the helmet

on it and then you 

Niall: walk

That's what I was worried about.

I was worried about that. Adrie was worried about that. 'cause she's like, if this changes while he's over there. now he to get back and get on the bike. It was so stressful, but I was like, fuck it. I got so it was so hot. That was the thing. So four I think. I think it was about five minutes, [00:32:00] honestly.

And you imagine five minutes outta light in the heat. baking. So I kinda stormed over, but then as soon as I got to him, you know, 

Viet Anh: got to him 

Niall: changed immediately. And I was like, excuse me. He said, lo uh, how long on the 

Viet Anh: long on the light? 

Niall: And he's one minute, spoke me in English, said one minute. I was like, okay, thank 

Viet Anh: Like okay thank 

Niall: And walked back, join him. The best thing when I walked back to the bike. I got a round of applause 

Viet Anh: applause

that's

Niall: Everyone was yeah, smiling and clapping and they're like, good job, good job. And I was like, oh my God. And then I thought like if somebody filmed me doing that, I Kim, 'cause she follows like the Vietnamese Facebook groups.

I was like, let me know if that goes viral. I would not be surprised if someone's like, bloody white guy, bloody uh, foreigner. Going to the CSGT. But I was very polite when I spoke to him and uh, yeah, he probably didn't change it because of me So before we go into my next question, I just wanna remind Americans, did you hear what Viet said there? They forgive, they don't forget. So just [00:33:00] remember that, right? Um, now I wanna hear about your different perspectives. 'cause you're born in Hanoi. We've talked about this. We've had lots of people Hanoi.

Um, Hanoi I going a very different, 

Viet Anh: very

different right? I 

Niall: in Hano

Viet Anh: Hanoi Oh, 

Niall: you born in the 

Viet Anh: you 

Niall: just

redo that then. Let me, I wanna ask about being from the North because we know from this podcast, I've spoken to lots of people from the north. We've had them on the podcast, and it's a topic that's come up again and again.

Hanoi, well, the North and the South are very different, right 

Viet Anh: right? Mm-hmm. What 

Niall: in the North? Um,

Viet Anh: well. 

It's pretty

cold 

Niall: and hot as 

Viet Anh: And hot.

and hot Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I, uh, I was born in a small town, uh, you 

Niall: right?

Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. you're really 

Viet Anh: nice. So yeah, like half an Sappa. Wow. And, uh, it was tiny, tiny town. Everyone knew each other.

And, uh, I spend my. Elementary school there. And then in my secondary, I went to the city, [00:34:00] which is about an hour from, from the town, and that's my secondary. And then my, um, high school was in Hanoi. So I sort of move around every, at every stage. And, um, yeah, growing up there is, um, I think it's not. Too, uh, different from, you know, growing up anywhere in Vietnam.

But, uh, it's, it's when I, uh, got a bit older, then I just sort of realizing, you know, how things are working and how people, uh. Different, especially after I moved to the south and, and actually, uh, you know, when you reflect back, uh, when you were growing up and you see like, okay, uh, people in the north are a bit more, you know, stiff and the way they work bit different.

Um, in the south it's always more sort of dynamic. Uh, everyone is [00:35:00] just moving around all the time. In the north, it's slower. People are a bit meaner. You don't see people going from the south to the north to

work 

Niall: It's, that's Yeah. Yeah. And we, I a couple of expats who've done the move 'cause they've got a job up there.

And every time it happens you're like, oh, what are they doing? Why are they going to Hanoi? Yeah. That's a really good point. So nobody really moved from Yeah, nobody, no. Vietnamese 

people go 

from Saigon

to 

Hanoi no 

Viet Anh: no. 

No, no, no. one moved upstreams. Yeah. Because, uh, yeah, the way people work there is, they're very different. Like, you know, everyone knows someone and then that sort of.

It's very political way of working, uh, sort of relationship, kind of working. Not like of how good you are sometimes. It's always how well you know people and how 

Niall: money you have 

Viet Anh: money you have

Niall: a phrase called, it's not who you know. It's not what you know, it's [00:36:00] who you 

Viet Anh: know.

too you 

Niall: Pretty much. Yeah. yeah.

But where were you, you were brought up then. Very rural. Yeah. So you mentioned the weather then. So now I realize you said that you were near Sappa and I've been there and it, it's mountainous and it's cold. So were you brought up, like what was your housing situation like?

Did, I mean, I know I, I was brought in Glasgow and it got really cold, but we had central heating 

Viet Anh: heating and 

Niall: like this.

Viet Anh: Um, yeah. Yeah. Houses. It's not very warm. No, I mean, even though we were like, sort of like, um, a bit wealthier than, uh, many people mm-hmm. We have proper houses, but, um. It's always the, the way we build houses here is always concrete and really, Yeah. Yeah. It's very

Niall: Vietnamese people love the door open as well. I've noticed that like I've driven houses when I'm like freezing and like all the windows and doors are opening. They're like, what are you doing?

It's freezing. 

Viet Anh: Yeah. that yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no, there's no, um, um, 

Niall: how do you call 

Viet Anh: how do you call 

Niall: thing, the [00:37:00] layers bit in insulation none of 

Viet Anh: There's none of that. It's just. Bricks

and then 

Niall: But that's not too places we lived in New Zealand. New Zealand freezing. They have no insulation, no double glazing.

And they similarly, we, I remember we went to a party in New Zealand in the winter and we went inside. Everybody was wearing black puffy jackets inside. And the doors were wide open. And we were just like, this is like maybe eight degrees, so not like in the freezing, but that's still really cold.

Yeah, eight degrees. Yeah. And everyone in New Zealand, they'll be wearing shots in a black jacket, a puffy so it's not just a Vietnamese thing as well, but, but yeah. So that, did you just get used to the cold growing 

Viet Anh: cold growing up Yeah, normal Yeah. I think So Yeah 

Niall: it's just you just get 

Viet Anh: It was just, you just get on it, you know, 

Niall: you can do, for for all your adults

Viet Anh: put put on 

Niall: one of these things that, what you were saying, when you then move away and you get warmer for per se, or you go to Saigon, you like, oh shit, I was really cold when I was young. I didn't realize it at the 

Viet Anh: it

[00:38:00] Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you, you, you do miss it sometimes. Like, oh, this could be to have, like, you know, 

Niall: stay in 

Viet Anh: stay in, staying at home, you 

Niall: outside. So it's sort of especially when hot right now like Yeah, 

Viet Anh: yeah. So you do miss it sometimes, but I don't, whenever I come back I just, oh no. It's just not enough. Uh, and enough of this, I, I need my,

some,

but, uh, but um, after every day we usually get a week of, um.

Extra week, uh, staying at home because it's, it gets really cold after ted. So if it's under three degree 

Niall: then we can stay at home. 

Viet Anh: stay at

home

a brew. Yeah. Yeah. 

Niall: we have an extra week.

You're like, please stay out. Stake. 

Viet Anh: cold It goes 

Niall: It's So everybody goes home for Tet, right? In Vietnam, we were talking this just on the weekend.

So a good friend Kim, who's been on the podcast before and regularly in the videos, [00:39:00] she's a one of those rare people. She's Sese family Saigon. She has no hometown to go to. So when there's Tet or any major holiday, like we just had a holiday weekend, everyone goes home. Her home is here. And, but most people in Saigon.

Nearly everybody has a hometown. So for you, your hometown's fucking miles away. Did you back for tech? Because like I do, like Hanoi and in Sappa. Yeah. We've been Sappa and it's like a train ride. It's maybe changed now 'cause this was like 10 years ago, but yeah. long does it 

Viet Anh: How long does it take

Well, it used to take, um. 11 

Niall: Hanoi to my home hours Yeah, in the bus.

That is really 

Viet Anh: it's Yeah. Well, it's not far. 

Niall: road was

was, no highway as well. 

Viet Anh: Highway as well Right.

No, yeah. So now they built a so it 

Niall: takes, um, six hours.

Viet Anh: hours

It's still a Yeah. So usually I fly. Uh, from [00:40:00] Saigon to Hanoi, it takes three hours with the airport and everything, uh, and then get off. And then either, um, someone will pick me up or I will get a car from my brother or sister, and then we just drive back home straight from the airport. Yeah. So in total, like 

Niall: 12 hours 

Viet Anh: 12 hours.

Niall: From second to there. 

Viet Anh: there. Yeah. Is all about Yeah. Right. You used to get, you 

Niall: 11 hours from 

Viet Anh: hours from now like that 

Niall: a bit,

yeah. Lot away from the LA as we mentioned. So when it comes to. Tet and holidays. How do you plan? I know in the uk, like for Christmas, for example, one Christmas we'd go to my dad's parents.

Then the next Christmas you go to your mom's parents 

Viet Anh: parents. Is it Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's the arrangement that my brothers and sister are doing, so that's what we plan to do. But we only been married for year and a half, so [00:41:00] just one take. far. Yeah. The, and we spent it at my, uh, parents', um, uh, home and, uh, so next year I think we will be here because her parents Ah, okay. Yeah. So I, I mean, I probably would enjoy it because it's very different from, you know, uh. Moving, uh, going back to your hometown, 

Niall: here is gonna be a big difference

Well generally for Tet, we will leave the country.

'cause most people go home. Which means Saigon is empty. I think it's not so bad now, but when we first got here, it meant there was almost no food. Like people had to, like, if you go in the X Pack groups 10 years ago, people were like, what's open? Where can I get food? But you'd have to like stock up for the apocalypse 'cause it'd be five days without 'cause it literally would be. Saigon would empty. I think it's a bit different now 'cause there's a lot more international brands and, and, and things like that. But still, I think not just us, most expats will leave the country Thailand or, or something like that because you get a couple of weeks [00:42:00] off and it's like, or, or travel within Vietnam.

But even then the, generally the reason why we leave the country is 'cause traveling within, within Vietnam is a nightmare because the airport's crazy. The buses are crazy, the trains are crazy. Because everyone's going home, so it's just easier to get on a flight. Yeah. Out of here. But so obviously you've spent a bit of time in d la I assume.

Yeah. D la is not central. Vietnam is it? What is it? 'cause it's 

Viet Anh: is it Because it's between Central

south. It's more south. Yeah. Um, central. Central would be or way. But, um, but d Dard is a bit south end, but um, to the highway, uh, to the Highlands, right.

Yeah. Uh, 

Niall: higher up. 

Viet Anh: up Yeah. Yeah. So,

Niall: spent much time in way.

been there once or 

Viet Anh: once or

twice 

Niall: I wanna your opinion on way because I spoke to someone just last night who had a very opinionated opinion 

Viet Anh: opinion on 

Niall: Yeah. So I wonder what's yours?

Can't believe 

Viet Anh: can't believe you. Someone has a 

Niall: has strong opinion about way.

Viet Anh: way Yeah, I [00:43:00] Yeah. Other people. Um Oh. Didn't spend much time, you know, talking to people. But, um, you know, 

Niall: and restaurants, people are nice.

The opinion I had last night was they were very rude. Oh. I 'cause they have a different dialect as well. He said it was very harsh. 

Viet Anh: harsh

Niall: And like.

people were not pleasant.

Viet Anh: pleasant Yeah. 

Niall: famous for being 

Viet Anh: for being

Niall: Yeah. this is the first time I've heard that, so that's why I asked your opinion. 'cause I did, I don't know how true that is, or maybe 

Viet Anh: is 

Niall: had a bad experience. But that was the first time heard that. So as a Vietnamese person who has experiences of the whole 

Viet Anh: of the whole Mm I. Yeah, I mean, I, I'm enjoying it. Like, I like it here. Um, you know, when I was growing up, I was thought that, uh, I would probably leave or stay in another country, [00:44:00] but never like.

Like, uh, forever, like I, I would think, like, you know, eventually I would come back, uh, and spend my, um, life here and, and I never actually move away or staying in another country for too long. But, um, I. But, uh, now I have my own company and, uh, 

Niall: my, 

Viet Anh: my, uh, employees

to pay.

Niall: Um 

Viet Anh: Um, and I'm married. I, I have a dog, so it's pretty subtle Yeah.

Here. Um, 

Niall: uh, we 

Viet Anh: we have a lot of problems. We have a lot of things to be improved. It is, we are getting, um, better and better every day. So. I 

Niall: enjoy it here. Yeah. 

Viet Anh: it here

Niall: One thing I wanted to ask was going back in my mind, I'm imagining young Viet 

Viet Anh: Viet 

Niall: up in Sappa. cold. You obviously, you said your, your family were relatively wealthy, so it wasn't like you were in poverty or anything like that, but [00:45:00] when you were that young person there and Sappa, we just said it's six hours.

At that time it was 11 hours from Han Hanoi. What were your hopes and 

Viet Anh: your hopes and dreams for yourself and

Um, whoa. I was small, so I didn't think that 

Niall: you know, that age.

Uh, what did you for your future 

Viet Anh: your future? What were

you always thought of 

Niall: a comedian 

for 

Viet Anh: reason. My mom's still talking about it sometimes. Not very funny, but, uh, but, uh. Um, you know, uh, it's a, it's a very small town, so you always sort of think about, um, you know, what's out there, you know, what's, what's, uh, what's hano is like. So my, my, my parents would send my, um, brother and sister, uh, sister to study in Hanoi first. So every summer I would spend a couple weeks in [00:46:00] Hanoi then and see all the.

Big things and you know, amazed by it and always thought like, oh yeah, I have to go here, I have to come here. And then you have the internet, you have books, you read about other countries, and then you dream about, you know, going overseas and stuff. And uh, and then, you know, you know, Saigon is very different.

And when you moved here, it's really amazing. So it's sort of starting to build like, you know, uh, not. That is different from my dream, but, uh, it's not, um, you know, too Uh, one thing is, uh, I, I said like, you know, I wanted to be a comedian in a way. My job right now is, um, observation of people, observation of how things, uh, work and, uh.

Uh, bringing something new into it and that sort of comedy is like right. And, uh, we do make [00:47:00] funny, um, ads sometimes So, so 

Niall: of dreams fulfilled.

That's amazing. And I think you're a hundred percent right with comedy 

Viet Anh: comedy.

Niall: I think you're a hundred percent right with comedy there. There's can be a comedian, it can be a standup comedian. We, we make a podcast for a standup comedian in, in America and her job is a standup comedian, but she interviews other people in the comedy industry and there are so many jobs. That people do, whether it's writing, acting, or just anything creative.

And I like to think some of the things I do, I, I don't do comedy anymore, but I still think it has a comedic influence in what I do. So whether it's designing something or whatnot, I think a standup comedy, a standup comic is just one facet of being funny or being creative or being comedic. So that's awesome that you get to do it.

How would you ever 

Viet Anh: ever, would you ever do an open mic 

Niall: stage? 

Viet Anh: nah. 

Niall: so.

Viet Anh: I'm change Yeah 

Niall: thank you so much for being on a Vietnam [00:48:00] podcast. I've loved talking to you, hearing your perspectives on that. Thank you for watching, all listening, whichever one you're doing. Remember, we are on YouTube now, have moved to the doc aid and we do videos now, so I'm so sorry about that.

I used to be an OG podcast and just do audio, but we do video now, so go check them out as well. Remember, leave a review, rate us, give us a five star rating, and the best thing that you can do is share this. With someone else. And if you wanna become a bop Saudi dear and join our Patreon, go to patreon.com/avie Vietnam podcast.

Thank you very much for watching, listening, however you're consuming this vie. 

Viet Anh: this via Thank you 

Niall: on a Vietnam podcast.

Viet Anh: Thank you for

having me. You're 

Niall: Cheers. Cheers.

Viet Anh: Cheers.