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The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families. Through the perspective of a community of former graduates and Naval Academy insiders, this podcast will help you learn about life at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. Through our shared experiences, Academy Insider guides families through the anxiety and frustration caused by lack of understanding, misinformation, and confusion. This platform is designed to better relationships between midshipmen and their loved ones. This podcast is not affiliated with the United States Naval Academy, the United States Navy or Department of Defense. The thoughts and opinions are exclusively those of your host and his guests.
The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
#046: I-day at the Naval Academy - Preparation and Advice for Parents with AN Shine
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This episode of the Academy Insider Podcast promises to offer invaluable insights and heartfelt advice from Annie Shyne, a mother of two Naval Academy graduates. With her unique perspective, Annie guides us through the emotional rollercoaster of I-Day, Plebe Summer, and beyond, sharing personal anecdotes and practical strategies that every Naval Academy parent can benefit from.
Throughout our conversation, Annie, the author of "A USNA Mom's Journal," illustrates the importance of letting go and allowing children to self-advocate—a crucial skill for their future roles in the Navy. We delve into the logistics of preparing for the commissioning ceremony, the emotional shifts parents might witness in their children, and the significance of creating memorable family experiences before they embark on their Naval Academy journey. Whether you're grappling with the initial emptiness at home or planning out the big day, Annie's wisdom will resonate deeply.
But the journey doesn't stop there. Annie also highlights the enduring bond between parents and midshipmen, emphasizing the role of community support and parent clubs. From humorous Plebe Summer stories to coping strategies for distressing letters, this episode is packed with emotional, practical, and inspirational guidance. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the challenges and rewards of being a Naval Academy parent, and discover the strength found in shared experiences and the power of a supportive network.
In this episode we answer the following questions:
- How should I prepare for I-day at the United States Naval Academy?
- How do I support my child who is a midshipman?
- How should I prepare as a parent for the Naval Academy journey?
- What are practical strategies that can help me as a Naval Academy parent?
- Am I going to experience any kind of sadness or missing feeling the following day/weeks after I-day?
- What resources should I use to stay connected to the Plebe Summer experience?
Get a copy of A USNA Mom's Journey (Dad's Need This Too!): https://www.amazon.com/USNA-Moms-Journal-through-Commissioning-ebook/dp/B093FWWNQZ
For any real estate questions, please text me at 650-282-1964
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The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
This podcast is independently produced and reflects the views and opinions of its creators. It is not officially affiliated with, endorsed by, or representative of the United States Naval Academy or its affiliates.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that matches service academy families with trusted real estate teams all across the country. Text (650) 282-1964 with any real estate questions.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
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Naval Academy Parenting Insights
Grant VermeerWelcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider Podcast. Academy Insider is a 501c3 nonprofit organization that serves midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. At its core, this podcast is designed to bring together a community of Naval Academy graduates and those affiliated with the United States Naval Academy in order to tell stories and provide a little bit of insight into what life at the Naval Academy is really like. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you so much for listening and reach out if you ever have any questions. The Academy Insider Podcast is sponsored by the Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that serves the United States Naval Academy community and other select clientele in both California and Texas. If I can ever answer a real estate related question for you or connect you with a trusted Academy affiliated agent in the market which you're in, please reach out to me directly at grantatthevermeergroupcom. You can also reach out to me on my LinkedIn page, grant Vermeer, and I'd be happy to respond to you there. Thank you so much, and now let's get back to the episode. Hey everyone, and welcome to the Academy Insider Podcast.
Speaker 1Speaker 1
Today I'm joined by Annie Schein, who's a two-time mother of the Naval Academy graduates from the class of 17 and 20. Her eldest son actually is a classmate of mine and was in the same major so amazing family. And Annie, through her experience as a midshipman parent, has actually authored the book called A USNA Mom's Journal, where she goes in detail about preparation, advice, logistics and everything about her experience as a mother of a midshipman at the Naval Academy. We talk all about I-Day today. So as you're preparing for Cleve Summer, for the moms and dads and loved ones of a midshipman that's getting ready to report for I-Day, you're going to get a ton of tremendous information in this episode, from high level advice and mindset to actual logistics and preparation for the last couple of weeks before your son or daughter leaves for the Naval Academy, to your couple of days in Annapolis before iDay actually happens, and then the logistics for iDay itself. So if you're interested in learning this information, please feel free to check it out.
Speaker 1If you have any questions about anything you hear in the episode, please shoot me a message on LinkedIn, on the Academy Insider Facebook page rant, at academyinsidercom. You can send me an email there as well. I'd be more than happy to hear your situation, learn a little bit about you and see how I can help. I hope you enjoy the episode today. Thank you so much for listening. All right, hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. For anyone who may not be familiar with you, am I giving us a little bit of background about yourself and your connection to the Naval Academy?
AN ShineOf course, grant, it's such a pleasure to be here with you. I'm so happy that Academy Insider is back. I can't tell you how much myself personally, but just parents in general, have missed you and the information that you provide for parents on this unique Navy journey. As far as my family and I, I am a proud mom of a 17 and a 20 grad and I'm also a very proud daughter of a 59 grad. So rise and shine with with 59.
Speaker 2Speaker 2
I grew up saying that, as well as go navy and beat army, and I remember and I mentioned this in my book, I use the name mom's journal that I remember visiting the naval academy and trailing after my dad, um, and this beautiful campus and just, uh, really having navy and the naval academy a big part, be a big part of my life, and it's continued.
Speaker 2It skipped a generation so, but it continued through the kids. My oldest is a 17. He's a former classmate of yours and he is. He has left the Navy. He was a SWO IP and he always tells me that the experiences and everything he learned both at the Naval Academy and in his different jobs in the Navy have been invaluable in his private industry job and, as you know, he has also made lifelong friends and they still keep in touch and get together, aside from class reunions, unions, and so there are many aspects to this, maybe life that pervades family, your personal life, your professional life and just follows you for the rest of your life. My daughter is a 20 grad. She is in the aviation community, she recently returned from deployment in the past few weeks and our youngest is the one that went rogue and he turned down his appointment and went to Notre Dame and did NROTC and he's also out in the fleet. So that is it for me.
Speaker 1Did he like his experience your youngest at Notre Dame. Does he feel like he made the right decision now?
Speaker 2He loved Notre Dame and I know he made the right decision because it was over COVID and so over. Covid. Notre Dame treated that very differently. Plus, my husband and I were working at Notre Dame at that time, so he was able to come home and so we had this family life and we would go out for walks and have the puppies and everything, whereas the Naval Academy had a very severe restriction. So I know that he made the right choice for his personality type he's very social. Yeah that'll do it.
Speaker 1Yeah, that'll do it, but that's amazing. Glad to hear that and with the focus of today's episode really being about again directed towards parents and it'll be I-Day preparation but just the experience of being the mom of multiple midshipmen and going through the experience twice, having two kids who have been graduates of the Naval Academy did your experience as a parent change between the first time going through and the second time going through?
Speaker 2I can definitely say absolutely. Everybody's journey is different and even within families, journeys are very, very something's very, very, very sorry, very journey is different and even within families, journeys are very, very something very, very, very sorry, very, very different. With our first, we were on a steep learning curve. We were very blessed with tremendous mentors who poured a lot of information. We probably had about a dozen mentors from our local parents club, which, if the new parents that are listening, if you have a local parents club, I highly recommend that you join the parents club.
Speaker 2We had mentors from there, we had mentors from the academy, we had mentors that my dad knew, and between all these people, they just poured all this information and it really made a difference. It really helped us to be, I consider, pretty prepared, because the first year is the most difficult year and we really learned to live that Navy motto others before self and we ourselves became mentors, even as plea parents, we were helping others. That's how good our mentors were and, as you know, helping Navy parents is many times a labor of love, and we just want to share this information to help others navigate this journey successfully, which is why I also have the podcast and the blog and it's all time consuming, but it's that way of giving back for what was given to us 100%.
Speaker 1I want to share that sentiment and give a shout out to the alumni association, specifically Lori Coogan, who's heading the parent engagement and parent outreach part of the alumni association. The parents clubs are an amazing resource. The parents clubs are an amazing resource and, from the welcome aboard dinner, the right before checking in for I-Day, through events throughout the time in Annapolis, really invest into the parents club Cause, like you're saying, you can find amazing mentors and amazing help and people who may relate within that group and it's phenomenal right, it's phenomenal.
Speaker 2I just wanted to take that time to thank you, and I thank you for that because we would have been lost without our parents club. We ended up being on the board of our parents club for seven years and made connections and made and got to know people that, as you said, truly understand what you're going through. Because the one thing I know is that you'll find that your family, your friends, even if they're in the military, unless they've gone through the Naval Academy, the military, unless they've gone through the Naval Academy particularly, each journey and each academy and each branch is so different that they won't understand and I talk about this in my book at length that you'll find friendships shifting because people can't really understand. You know, while they're going out and buying comforters and thinking unicorns and fairy dust comforters and thinking unicorns and fairy dust you're getting ready to turn your son or daughter over to the Navy to serve, to become a warrior, a Naval officer, and it's it's two very different perspectives that not be able to relate to what you're going through.
Speaker 1No, absolutely, and kind of like. You mentioned that you wanted to give back based on the experience and the mentors that gave to you. But at what point did you or about the experience did you? Were you really inspired to write the USNA Moms Journal Like? At what point were you like, oh, I really want to get back. I want to get back in this format.
Speaker 2It's a funny story because again, we just wanted to share everything we've learned and equip these plebe parents that were coming in and a lot of them don't know what they're getting themselves into, they're completely lost, and I thought it would be great to have like one place where all this information for all four years is kept. However, obviously I started as a plebe parent so I didn't have the knowledge of all four years, so I started with a small PDF that covered plebe summer and plebe year and I kind of left it at that and it was very thorough. A lot of parents clubs took that and created their own PowerPoints. A lot of parents clubs got my permission and pass them out to share with parents, which was great. But then I had one parent that came to see me because I try to get together with parents on I day minus one at Fox books on Maryland Avenue in Annapolis to answer last minute questions and kind of calm fears and give hugs or pats of assurance or whatever have you. And there was one parent that came on like I thought I was coming to a book signing.
Speaker 2I'm like, excuse me. It's like, yeah, this is Fox books. You're in, shine, you have this thing. Where's your book? I'm like, excuse me, it's like, yeah, this is Fox Books, you're in shine, you have this thing. Where's your book? I'm like, well, this is this little PDF. No, no, no, no, I want the book.
Speaker 2I'm like, well, there is no book and this and my son was a first see that year and he said, well, call me again when you have the book. So he stayed for the Q&A, but he's the one that pressed me and pressed me and pressed me. I want the book, I want the book. And so the summer, after my first graduated, I sat down and I just wrote the remaining three years and edited and re-edited, had one of my fellow friends from the, from the parents club, who, a teacher, helped me edit it and I self-published and, lo and behold, the mid store picked it up and began sharing it. So that's how the book got started, and it was all that desire to share that information and equip parents with information that will help them to navigate the journey successfully, because it's a difficult journey and to support parents. So I started then writing my blog and then I started my own podcast, and all in an effort to equip parents with information from different perspectives, not just my own.
Speaker 1No, fantastic, it's an amazing service, right, and Academy Insider was born in that, and it's so fun to have you on the podcast and for us to collaborate because our missions are the exact same, which is supporting a midshipman is really difficult because it is it's super niche and it's super unique.
Speaker 1Like you had mentioned earlier, even if you are a veteran or you were in the military, even in the Navy, you probably will not understand 90% of what's going on at the Naval Academy. Yeah, it's its own unique entity and the things that go on there again verbiage, just all the experiences and evolutions are just different, yeah, and so to try and understand that experience requires a lot of information and that can be tough because midshipmen are going through it. They have a massive time commitment and being able to take the time to explain that to a family member can be overwhelming. It can be overwhelming. So I love that you had the forethought and the perspective to jot those notes down as you're going through and then produce what you've produced as an amazing service to the community. Um, so thank you for that.
Speaker 2Thank you, grant, and thank you for coming on my podcast.
Speaker 1Of course yeah, and we'll put that link in the show notes.
Speaker 2Yeah, and I have to say that, uh, if I looked at my stats after we, uh, after I, I published your podcast and within a week, it was the most popular podcast of all time.
Speaker 1So how about that? Well, we'll have to. We'll have to run it back a couple more times and make it happen and keep it going.
Speaker 1But what I loved about your story of the origination of the book was talking about being there on I day minus one, which is where I'm going to bring us for really the topic of this episode, which is preparing. I'm going to bring us for really the topic of this episode which is preparing for I-Day, and how do you really do that? And let's take it even a further step back in those last couple of weeks of summer before you get ready to head to Annapolis for I-Day. What would you encourage parents to be their focus? What would you offer as a word of advice? How involved in their child's preparation should they be or not be? And kind of what are the best ways to support their son or daughter as they're preparing to head out?
Speaker 2That is such a great question, Grant, and there are many questions buried in there that all deserve an answer because they're very important thoughts and they offer a lot of information to new parents. So the first thing I would say is enjoy your time together. We took time to do special things, Like one of our friends
Preparing for Naval Academy Parenting
Speaker 2who owned a car dealership but loaned the James Bond Aston Martin to Nicholas Convertible for a day. For the day, because he was going to the Naval Academy. So this kid spent the day riding around in an Aston Martin, which is his dream car Academy. So this kid spent the day riding around in an Aston Martin, which is his dream car. So we just kind of sought out special experiences that we could share as a family. We went to their favorite places. We just enjoyed time together.
Speaker 2As far as preparing, I would say the most important things parents themselves can prepare for is to let go, Because once the son or daughter goes through those doors after the oath on I-Day actually once they take the oath they belong to the Navy and they are not yours. You are not in their chain of command, you are not going to know their grades unless they decide to put you on the notifications. You're not going to get notice that Johnny is sick. You're out of the chain of command and so it's good to let them go, to let them prepare their own paperwork, to let them make their own appointments, to let them figure out and ask the questions of admissions or whoever else they have to ask. What do I need, what do I have to?
Speaker 2bring, which is really nothing, and I go through that in my book. It's a close on their back. That's it. They get issued everything. Let them figure that out. Give them the freedom to do that.
Speaker 2The other thing I would say is and give them time and space to be with their friends as well as with family, and don't make it too overwhelming. So there are like we had one send off for them. We didn't have let's, go see grandpa here and aunt there and cousins there. We had one send off and that was it. We brought everybody together so their time wouldn't be divided. They want to spend time with friends that they're not going to see probably ever again. And also, as they get closer, they may start to get overwhelmed. Each one is different and they each handle things in their own way. From my own experience and from the many, many parents that I've mentored, most mids, their decision starts to weigh on them. As you get closer to I-Day, they may shut down. They may be quiet. My kids, who were saints, became so argumentative. It was ridiculous. I was so ready to let them go. I was thankful that they became argumentative because I wanted them out. I'm like that's it, you're done, um, so I have a podcast episode about that.
Speaker 2Actually it's called irritable and argumentative goodbyes, because I didn't know my kids and it was all this kind of putting their game face on, getting emotionally, mentally ready as far as and also physically they're working out right To to enter this world a that they don't know and B, that's that they know is going to be so, so hard. Right, it's a mental game that's going to take its toll. And what I told my kids, and I also mentioned in the book, is you are the only one that gives your detailers permissions to get in your head. This is a mental game, so you're the only one that gives them permission. So start getting prepared. Know that you're going to be yelled at. Know this, know that it's a game and you're the one that decides how it goes. And that really gave them. It shifted the perspective where they weren't afraid, they were ready to kind of take things on and knew better what they were getting into. They were mentally in a space that was better for them because they looked at it as a challenge, as a game, as a mental game.
Speaker 2So give them space. Give them space. And if they become irritable, so give them space. Give them space. And if they become irritable, give them space and it's that part of letting go. You're no longer um, it's this transition where you're parent, but at some point between plebe and youngster year you're gonna become an advisor and not a parent. You're not going to be directive. You're going to seek advice and give advice when asked. Yep, because you have to let them go. You have to let them self-advocate Because they, in turn, have to become advocates for their men and women when they're out in the fleet. So a lot of this is skill building for them, and they can't do that if you're constantly there doing things for them 100%.
Speaker 1I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly and I think it's really interesting for parents Cause, like you're saying, the kids in most cases are going to be really stressed. But it's a it's a fear of the unknown. They know what they're getting into Again. There are a lot of resources out there to understand again that you're going to a military bootcamp, but you can't fully understand what you're about to enter into until you're actually there and so your mind wanders, your mind goes all these places and it is as the days get closer you start to get a little stressed out, which can lead to being a little bit irritable, being a little bit argumentative in all the different aspects. So I agree with everything you're saying and I think you know from.
Speaker 1I love the term that you use of becoming more of an advisor and I feel like that's kind of the relationship distinction that I had with my parents as well is, again, it never became a demanding or command aspect.
Speaker 1But what I loved about what my dad and what my mom did specifically is they a lot of times they would never like tell me what to do, but they would provide me the resources potentially I would need to make my own decision right, like my dad would send me a link to an article or just send me a link to a podcast or whatever the case was, and he wouldn't even follow up and be like, hey, do you listen to this?
Speaker 1Tell me about it. It was just like, hey, I thought this was interesting and you may benefit from it, but it's on you to make a decision of whether or not you're going to follow through and listen to it or read it or take action on whatever the item is, and so I think entering that that advisor realm is is an interesting distinction and it can be helpful as well, because if you are ever overbearing in our demanding any kind of answer, that's going to become a huge friction point when your son or daughter has no time to answer or deal with what you're requesting of them, right, and so I'm trying to avoid those major friction points. Is is is an important aspect, right, it's an important aspect of that relationship.
Speaker 2It is. It's very important and you don't ever want your, your child, to avoid your call because it's like oh man, you know, or so I would. I would also and this is more toward like the academic year but I would also
Preparing for Midshipman Commissioning Ceremony
Speaker 2think about what, what texts I was sending. Was it urgent? Did I need an answer now? Could it wait until we talked to the weekend and A and B? What time is it they're in class? Do I really need to be texting?
Speaker 2Texting them when they're in class? Maybe over lunch, you know, when they have a little bit more free time? Maybe during study time, maybe, and it also so everything's company dependent. Some Cleaves are allowed to keep their phones during study time, so I don't have to leave them outside their door and they're going to be so busy they're not going to be able to answer you right away. Period, even if they wanted to. And during Cleaves summer, use that time to get used to that distancing, because they're not going to have their phones at all, and my advice is not to text them because then, when they turn on their phone, there's going to be the ding, ding, ding ding all the 20 different texts and they don't want the detailer's attention on them because their phone was going off with 100 days.
Speaker 2So, um, so just be patient, hold back and you'll have have time to get together with them. We visited our kids once a month. We made that commitment and that's when we would talk about all these things and bring all these things up, so that we wouldn't take time. During the week. We'd just send little messages, right, like hey, you know, praying for you. Hey, I came across this verse or this inspiring thing, I hope this helps you today. But nothing that required their response, because they're so in the weeds that it's not even funny.
Speaker 2Now I do have a friend, um, and it's a two part episode, and right now I can't remember the name of the episode, but it's in the high 20s, it could be maybe 28 and 29. But she had so many great ideas beyond even what I had. So what she did to prepare is she wrote a letter for each day of Plebe Summer and they were numbered by dates, and then she sent them all in one big envelope or box so that she wasn't sending like 25 letters and so that they'd be easily accessible, and so her plea could open up the letter for each day and each day feel close to family and be inspired. So that might be an idea that helps a parent to prepare.
Speaker 1Yeah, no, absolutely I love that and I think, um, there's so many great episodes we can dive into in the future of like specific ideas like that, because, um, there are ways you can prepare to kind of maximize the efficiency of communication during clean summer, when time is a very valuable resource.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Right and so um, it's fantastic. And as we move a little bit closer to I-Day now. So we're we're going from a couple of weeks out to the point where you're about ready to hop on that plane and fly out to Annapolis. What would your recommendation be, and kind of? What was your plan and did it change between first and second child at the academy of how to spend your last bit of time together, Like when you're all together in Annapolis for that last day or two or three?
Speaker 2Um, we, I think the plan was almost the same. And then our daughter decided what she wanted based on what she saw for her brother. So, like for PPW, the whole family came out, the house was milling with people I never saw my son, never heard his stories, and I mentioned this because it formed my idea of what I wanted for commissioning. And so she saw this and she's like mom, I don't want anybody. I don't want anybody for PPW. I want you, dad, xander or youngest, and I want the dogs. That's it, nobody else. And with my daughter you don't mess around, you do exactly what she says. And that's what we had. As far as the day that you fly in, I had bought the tickets way ahead of time that you fly in. We had. I had bought the tickets way ahead of time. We had decided that we wanted to rent a home in DTA because we wanted to walk. We didn't want the stress of having to drive and a hitch with the like. There was one year where the buses didn't start working till 7am, even though they were supposed to start working at 5am and this whole thing. So we didn't want stress. We wanted to reduce stress for our incomings as much as thing. So we didn't want stress. We wanted to reduce stress for our incomings as much as possible, so we decided to rent.
Speaker 2You can also stay in a hotel. You can stay in a bed and breakfast. That's within walking distance. Most of the hotels on West street are 10, 15 minutes walk, which is kind of a nice way to relax. And I have a lot of other information you know about breakfast and stuff in my book which I'm not going to take the time to do that now. But anything that you're going to do I would plan in advance If you're going to have a dinner at your favorite restaurant.
Speaker 2If you have a favorite restaurant, if not, ask about them. Like ours was Italian. They wanted Italian food, so there's a trattoria on main street, so I had made the reservations way in advance. Things start to get really busy and fill up hotels, restaurants, so if you want to do something, make sure that you reserve early. So that's one thing that we did before we got there.
Speaker 2And then, when we got there, we didn't do a tour of the yard, because we've been there very often, but we did do a practice run, which I highly suggest, of how long is it going to take me to get to alumni hall. So if you're driving, you may want to start at your hotel. Go to alumni hall, let's say, during rush hour or during whatever time you're going to be there. If it's 7am or 12 noon, do that practice run park, take the bus, whatever it is you're going to do and see how long it's going to take you to get there, keeping in mind that there will probably be more people. One is going to be busier and then, if you're taking the bus, you may have to allot time for that.
Speaker 2And if the buses aren't running, what's your plan B? Yeah, okay, so that's what I would do. The other thing that I would do is find a spot. So, as you're walking around the yard, find a spot, because dribbling after the oath is like the super bowl, it's like filled with people, and if you're going to waste about 20 minutes trying to find your, your son or daughter, so predetermine a spot that where you're going to waste about 20 minutes trying to find your, your son or daughter.
Speaker 2So predetermine a spot that where you're going to meet, where, once the oath is over, your pleads going to race over there and you're going to race over there and that's where you're going to meet. We had two different spots and our two kids are very different. They have very different journeys and so their spots were different. You know, it all starts there. And then the other thing is if you're gonna bring them which I suggest that you bring them food, because even though they do offer them lunch, as you know, Grant they probably offer you lunch, but you're running around and doing so many things that you don't have time to even take a bite, so I would suggest also beforehand making reservations.
Speaker 2Like our kids' favorite was Sophie's crepes, so we bought you know whatever crepes, something that doesn't spill out that doesn't have tomato, because they're going to be very protective of their whites. And so no red Gatorade, nothing you know, just water, anything that is not, and bring tide sticks and shot wipes with you in case there is a disaster which in my case there was, and that's why I recommend that you also bring a waterproof blanket if you're going to have your mid sit down.
Speaker 2Because, our little son sat down on our blanket that I bought at the mid store and when he got up he had green splotches everywhere because it had rained a few days before. And he is freaking out. I'm tidying everything and shout wiping, and this is not coming off and he finally, just you know, gave a huff and he's like mom, just stop it's just gonna happen.
Speaker 2It's not gonna come out, that's just gonna happen. Yeah, I'll deal with it. Just stop so you don't want to spend the last few minutes having to scrub off a you know gross. So those are some things that just right off the top of my head that I would say.
Speaker 1Yeah, no those are, those are those are fantastic recommendations and I think you know it's funny. You mentioned the food pieces. It's a funny story from my plebe summer Cause I feel like once I got into Bancroft hall
Plebe Summer Parent Experiences
Speaker 1because I was a more, I was a morning report I was through processing very quickly and onto Red Beach and into Bancroft Hall fast and I think they just like forgot about me and then I had checked in. Like I sat in my room for like six straight hours. No one came to get me for lunch or anything of the sort. So I was just like sitting full to my clothes and like I never, never, nobody, ever let me knew we got lunch and I like my roommates like run back in after who?
Speaker 1I hadn't met before, and they're like oh, hey like do you eat? And I was like you guys ate. Well, like what's going on? How do I get food around here? Oh, that's uh, but but then after that, point, then you know I was.
Speaker 1I'm not aware what's going on during plebe summer yet like fully. And so like I chopped out in the middle of the hall cause I have to use the restroom and I like I don't know what's going on. They're like a million people running around. I got bags over the shoulders, detail was yelling and uh, that's when I got like my first. Uh, like wake up to plebe summer, right, cause I'm like just like kind of chopping, not sure what's going on, and some detailer comes over. He's like hit a bulkhead, and so I run over to the bulkhead and I didn't know what to do. Like no one's taught me like what's going on. I don't know Like I'm supposed to pound on the wall and do the midshipman fourth best from here and get my alpha and all that stuff I don't know. So I'm just like standing there and this guy is yelling my god, he's like how do you not know what's going on?
Speaker 1blah, blah, blah and uh, you know, the detailer who had brought me up was the sweetest girl of all time and I like I was like, oh, this is this, is like what's everyone talking about? This isn't that bad, and but she didn't teach me any of the stuff that I needed to know, and so I'm like going like she was gonna have fun later.
Speaker 2Grant, when you were gonna yell that and so I.
Speaker 1I was like I was so lost and by that point we were getting ready to go back out for the oath of office and I sat down on the grass and my parents had brought food and I hadn't eaten all day, but I was like I am not hungry. I was like I'm just like I'm in, I'm shocked and I've been stressed. I was like I am not hungry, oh my gosh. But but there are a lot of people who are starving so having a little bit of food, you can never go wrong with having it?
Speaker 2yeah no, my kids were hungry. Uh, my, my oldest ate all we brought him. He wanted a chicken salad sandwich from some deli somewhere, so we went and got it. And then my daughter wanted two crepes from suzy's crepes. She ate both of them to the last crumb and um. And then our son was funny because during after the oath you meet in your spot right, and so you get a chance to ask questions. And they and, and he was so animated telling us different stories and he got his first taste of what pleat summer would be like. And now it's different, because when you guys went in in 2017, detailers could still yell at you, they could still ask you to do different things, whereas in 2019, they, they stopped it until you took the oath. They couldn't yell at you until they took the oath.
Speaker 2So it's kind of eerily quiet. But our son told us in alumni hall, as he was running around getting his uniforms, a dealer walked up, a retailer walked up to him and said what's your favorite song? And he said the only song that came to mind was Don't Stop Believing. All right, stand up there on that box or whatever and sing it out loud. And so he had to sing this song in front of everybody and he's like people are looking at him and I'm like okay, and I'm like that's the only song. He's like mom, that's the first one that came to mind.
Speaker 1That's the only one I could think of yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2So I mean my daughter. Actually very different experience again. She walked in. I tell her bring your immunizations in your hand. No, mom, they're in my backpack and I've told this story before. They take her backpack as soon as she goes to alumni hall. They don't have a record of her immunizations. Her backpack's gone, nobody knows where it is. And it took her. She was on the second to last bus and she went in at 830 in the morning and she almost missed the oath. That's how long it took to get her process because she had to get all the vaccinations over again. So for the parents that are out there listening and possibly any incoming pleads keep your immunizations in your hand when you walk in. So two very different experiences.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's a great, that's a great tidbit of advice, right, which is anything that you really need. Keep on your person. Keep on your person. And we mentioned, just to go back to a little bit of that oath of office period. When it came to actual i-day and the logistics of i-day, you had picked out a spot. Did you feel the need to kind of like go early in the day and save that spot and put out the blanket, or kind of what was your timing on actually arriving to the spot that you were going to meet at after the oath of office?
Speaker 2yeah, definitely. I think it was probably around noon-ish, like after our son was in, and what we did for both our kids is we didn't take advantage of all the amenities that are being offered because there are tours here and tours there and tour the engineering building and ride the YP boats, opted to sit by the mid-store stairs to wait for them to get off the bus. So that you know, I got tons of pictures and that took all morning. So right after he came through, we saw him, took pictures, we knew he was alive and then at that point we proceeded to go kind of save our spot.
Speaker 2If you think that there might be the risk you may not get your exact spot and have like a plan B, like a, you know, an alternate spot, maybe a few feet over or what have you. And I have to say it varies from year to year. Like some years the chairs are out there at 730 in the morning, Other years they don't get there till about noon. You have same thing with the seating on for the oath of office on the bleachers. There are years when they have an MP standing guard or you know, like a junior officers or somebody standing guard and they don't let you put anything down until a half hour before the oath guard, and they don't let you put anything down until a half hour before the oath, and there are years when there's no one there and you can put your stuff down at dawn, Right. So, um, so it. It all depends. So this is where that saying Semper Gumby, always flexible, goes in.
Speaker 1You just have to be flexible. Yeah, absolutely. And for anyone listening, an MP stands for Mike Papa is a military police. So if you ever hear the term MP, it's just military police. There are police officers within the military and masters, masters of arms that kind of do a lot of the security all over the bases across the world and kind of handle any police related issue on a naval installation.
Speaker 1So I know you mentioned that towards the end of the experience both your children were starting to get a little bit irritable and argumentative and kind of ready to get them out the door, and I know that you were prepared about the Naval Academy experience and the fact that you're going to be separated from them in kind of cold Turkey immediately. Yeah, but even with all that background, did you experience any kind of sadness or, you know, a missing feeling for the next couple of days or weeks during the plebe summer process? And then how did you process that and what resources did you use to stay connected to to the Summer experience so you felt in tune with what was going on?
Speaker 2That's a fantastic question, Grant, and for a sec I'd just like to kind of backtrack a little bit about plans. So any plans that we made for I-Day minus one, for I-Day preparations that were being
Surviving Plebe Summer Separation
Speaker 2made, we made sure to include our incoming plea to make sure that he felt comfortable. Do you prefer a hotel? Would you rather have? Do you think you'd be more comfortable in a rental? Where do you want to have dinner? Um, what do you want to do? There were some friends that live in Davidsonville. He wanted to go see them. He wanted to meet his sponsor. He wanted to meet his sponsors, which we did before. No, actually not, that was PPW, Scratch that, Um but during PPW he wanted to do that. So we definitely included his opinion if we want, I'm sorry as far as coming back from my
Speaker 2day and coming home, um, two different experiences as well. So, with my son, we packed everything up, went home Um, very interesting, because the house felt so empty, uh, and we quickly figured out who the jokester was. That would leave, you know, the standees outside the bathroom door to scare his siblings, or you know who would, you know, crack the jokes or make you know, or, and, and so the house was very quiet. We would make reservations for restaurants, and I make them for five. Oh, yeah, not five, four, or I, oh, I forgot to tell him that I'm going to. I can't text him, uh, so just very sad.
Speaker 2And, to be honest, my oldest and I are very close and I cried a lot initially. I just missed him. I missed him and I knew that things were not going to be the same again. However, I also knew, based on what a mentor had taught me, that our kids are going to be warriors, are going to be naval officers. They are strong and in order to stay strong, we have to be strong for them. And so I came up and it's on my blog. It's called the plebe summer challenge and there are five ways that you can use your time instead of mourning, and there is a time to kind of mourn that missing part of your family, but very quickly it's important to turn around and use that energy positively.
Speaker 2And so I connected spiritually. So I would wake up early in the morning at the same time they did, and I would go out and I connected physically. I would go out and I connected physically. I would go out and walk and while I was walking or a while I was exercising, I would pray for them, for their day, for their roommates, for their company. Right, I connected with others. So, again, this is where the parents club is so invaluable. So I made connections, I made friends. We would have tea, we would have coffee, we'd share stories from letters that we'd received. I would connect creatively. So this is where I started my small business of making jewelry and other handmade keepsake items.
Speaker 2So I find just focusing on that one thing for me is invaluable. Just focusing on that one thing for me is invaluable. So just finding ways for you to be able to use that time effectively so that you're not sitting morning and not sitting there, worrying and not sitting there. And, of course, the most important job you're going to have all of plebe summer after you drop off at I day is going to be to look for pictures. So you're going to go Waldo hunting and that's going to be a job in itself. So find something that keeps you encouraged, that keeps you busy, that uses your talents and gifts, just like our children are serving. Find a way to volunteer, whether it's at your parents' club, at a homeless shelter. Do something worthwhile, serve as our kids serve. And so those are the things that kept me sane While I got used to this idea of not seeing or hearing from my kids my both my kids.
Speaker 2Now, with my daughter, it was different. She had left her room like it exploded and I had to collect all our things, put them in in her bag and you'll find this when they come home to visit too. That's a whole different story, and I could not, once I got home, I could not unpack her bag. Every time I would go into the room to unpack her bag. I couldn't bring myself to do it, and I finally unpacked all of her things and wash them and put them away when she was coming home for Thanksgiving, and this was the second kid. So just very different ways of dealing with things and just very different experiences.
Speaker 1Absolutely. And you know, hopefully, like you're saying, it's just the the, the missing aspect of them, and you don't have to deal with any external things. But in my case, uh, if you have a son or daughter who's like me and has a flair for the dramatic, uh, then you know, then we can go. So for anyone who doesn't know my story, I wrote kind of an infamous letter home, uh, on on the 4th of July. On the 4th of July I wrote a letter home that literally just said I hate this place. I just want to be happy, save me mom, and we'll post the picture in the show notes and everything of the sort. Uh, but if you ever receive anything like that, feel free to reach out to anyone, and this is where the resources and the groups, um, really matter. But what I would want to encourage anyone who's listening if you do have a point during the summer where you receive kind of an ominous or a sad letter home, just know that you're not alone in that.
Speaker 1Sleep summer is designed to be really difficult. There's a lot of stuff going on. Just like you're feeling that separation aspect, as someone like myself who was a homebody like I felt that too, I was homesick, I'm going through, I'm stressed out, I'm exhausted. There are a lot of emotions going and so if you receive a letter like that, it's not the end of the world, and I want to encourage you that, even though a lot of times for me, like when I go back into my experiences of pleading during plebe summer, we don't have a ton of time to write.
Speaker 1So when you have time to write, you're kind of rolling the dice on the emotional state you're in when you're writing that letter.
Speaker 1Because you're kind of rolling the dice on the emotional state you're in when you're writing that letter, because, if it's after a really fun evolution, you may get a letter home from your son or daughter that's like we just did this really cool thing, we just ran the e-course, this is so fun.
Speaker 1Or if you just got like beat down in some kind of you know, gray space evolution where you guys are getting punished for performance or whatever the case is like, you may get a letter home that's like ah, this place sucks, this place sucks and a lot of it is dependent almost on the emotional state of your midshipman, as they're writing the letter home. So if you do receive any kind of information, any kind of letter that is less than ideal, uh, just just take that second to process it and, uh, you know, utilize the resources to kind of navigate your own stress and reaction to that. But I just want to encourage you and let you know again, I wrote that letter home that I wanted to go, that I wanted to go and I'm sitting here talking to you as someone who's already graduated from the academy and completed my service.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1It's amazing how fast it goes Um, but it'll be okay. But it'll be okay.
Speaker 2Yeah, I like to tell parents with letters and phone calls. It's a snapshot in time. You don't know what kind of day they had, you don't know what happened just before. Like you said, they wrote the letter or they're making that call home. So try to take it with as hard as it is, because for parents it's heartbreaking, right. We want to fix it. The point is that we can't. So we have to take it with a grain of salt. We have to kind of put our feelings aside and be encouraging and uplifting to our mids to give them again that strength. We have to be strong to help them be strong, um, and, and that's and that's how you survive.
Speaker 2Because there were, there were times that were difficult, um, with our daughter it was. It was hilarious because she had spent three years getting to know our oldest friend, so she was the little sister of the whole group and when she became a plebe, his friends would stop by and just either just give her a hard time because they could and they knew her, and she would try not to laugh because she already knew them. In one case, one of my son's friends she wanted to read a book that had just come out and he raced into the room after an alpha inspection, called out my daughter's name and shine and all her roommates are like, oh my gosh, it's another alpha inspection, what's going on? And he's like, slams a book on the desk and says I'm watching you and walks back out and the whole purpose of the whole exercise to leave her the book so she could read it when she had time. Those are things that that second minutes can get away with, because they know their older friends, you know. So, again, just different journeys altogether. There are many people who've gone and I've counseled many parents that have gone through difficulty with
Naval Academy Parent Support and Advice
Speaker 2their sons or daughters adjusting through plebe summer. The majority end up staying, but there have been a few that have left. I know that most regret that they left, that they didn't give it a shot. So I would say reach out to someone, whether it's your page administrator, whether it's Grant, whether it's me. I am always glad to counsel parents and spend time.
Speaker 2I've given umpteen parents my cell phone number and they reach out whenever they have a question. As a matter of fact, there's a 2022 mom for my almost 22 class right For my rogue son that calls me Siri and she's like hey, siri, do you know what's going on with this? Because she'll always reach out to ask me questions or try to find out something. So that's kind of like an inside joke. But you'll find that you'll make battle buddies, which are like people that are like-minded, that understand your journey, that you can lean on, that you can support on, but also know that the people that are out in the Navy community are more than happy to help, and Grant and me included. There are other people happy to help, and Grant and me included.
Speaker 1Um, there are other people like Carl Smith, like, um, I can't think of uh, yeah, just all of them, and even, and even the, the um, the, the amazing individuals who contribute to the Facebook groups the Judy Howlers that run the blithely in the bind Facebook page, patty Luttons, who kind of run the US name is mom's and dad. So there's a lot of us out there who want to be a resource for you, right, who want to be a resource for you and help you out. You know my, my, my piece on on this and again, a lot of these individuals. If you ever experiencing it in lifetime and you want to run ideas by, I encourage you to reach out to anyone and everyone. My, my thing is again I'm talking kind of based on my personal experiences that my reaction to everything that pleads somewhere was very emotional. It was very, it was very emotional, and so the best thing you can do is just be very rational. And so for me, that was a really interesting thing because I was like all right, I want to leave, like I hate this place, I want to leave, and I, you know, it was the first thing I said on my first phone call to my dad. I was like, hey, I just want to let you know I'm not calling to you know, ask if I can come home. I'm not calling to get advice, I'm just letting you know I'm coming home. That was my, that was my first phone call and, uh, you know he he thank, thank goodness. You know his backgrounds in policing. He was a long time police chief in the city of Mountain View back home in North California.
Speaker 1But he was used to kind of deescalating emotional situations through rational logic, right, and I think you know his conversation with me was like okay, I hear you, what's your, what's your plan when you get, when you get back? I, you know. I just want to let you know that now all college applications are done. If you choose to leave right now which I you can do what you want. You're an adult, you can do what you want. But if you do decide to leave, you're going to have to either work for a year You're going to have to give up a year of your basketball eligibility. You're not going to be able to play because all schools are already accepted, all applications. So you're either going to have to go to a junior college for a year or work for a year or do whatever you want. But that's the reality if you choose to leave, right.
Speaker 1And so you know him approaching it with a really just like logic based, rational mind at least in my case was like really disarming and I was like because it took away the emotion of it and made my rational brain take over and be like okay, like what actually are the next steps, right, and so I thought that piece was really interesting and it really gave me the perspective.
Speaker 1Um, you know that my dad taught me he's like never make a permanent decision out of temporary emotion, because if you do that you're going to lose out on everything that comes with it. And you know, looking back at my experience now with this perspective, I couldn't agree more with that sentiment. Had I made the decision to leave the Naval Academy, I would have never had the amazing opportunities that I have now, the life experiences and just generally being set up for life. And I stand by the fact that the Naval Academy, if you devote to it, if you pour into it, if you invest in it, can be a life changing, a family changing and a generational changing opportunity, because this place is so special. And I almost threw it away because I was emotional, right, and so you know, that's, that's my encourage, that's my main piece of advice is never make a permanent decision out of temporary emotion and approach those emotional situations with logic as best as you can.
Speaker 2That's, that's great advice. And if I can add one thing to that, my oldest. I came to my oldest and asked him what would you say to someone that's thinking of leaving? Because a friend of mine had reached out and said hey, this is youngster year, my son is thinking of leaving, wants to go to a different college, and it's kind of the same thing mid-year past application time. And so he thought about it for a second and then he said I would say, if it were my case, that my I better have a plan B and my plan B better be a lot better than my plan A for it to be worth it.
Speaker 2And it ends up that the mid ended up staying. He's now flying F-18s. So I think at some point or another, every mid goes through that, that they doubt where they belong or they may have some type of doubt that causes them to hesitate, but in the end it is such, like you said, a worthwhile life-changing opportunity that it's worth the investment. And just like you invest, make sure that you get what you need. So, if you want your master's degree, if you want a, you know like a, an LREC? Uh uh, lrec is language. Uh oh, gosh, no, I forgot.
Speaker 1It's it's. I also forget what it stands for, but it's basically a language immersion and cultural immersion Um because the.
Speaker 2Naval officer are going to be all over the world dealing with different cultures. Um, if you want to, you know, join a club, a team, a parachuting club, whatever it is that makes you happy that the Navy can offer, do it. Do it because they're going to take from you, so take also what they offer.
Speaker 1Yeah, and this has been amazing high level input. If someone does want some of the nitty gritty of the details and everything that you had talked about, you said he wrote in the book, are you continuing to update a USNA mom's journal and where would you direct someone to go to to get that, if they kind of want the insight and advice that you've written and documented?
Speaker 2Thanks so much for that grant. Yes, I update it every year. Um, any major updates that happen, um, I try to include in every new edition. Uh, sometimes the book goes to print before the changes are announced, but I do update. It is updated every year and I would invite any listeners to visit my website, usnamidmomsandmoreorg, and they'll find my blog, my book, my podcast there, link to my Etsy shop and my handcrafted items and they can contact me as well if they want through there and anytime there's a question or you're not sure you need advice. I always love to help parents and that's part of that giving back, that you want to help. Just like we received help,
Supporting Parents Through the Naval Academy
Speaker 2we want to pay it forward. So feel free to reach out.
Speaker 1I love that, and you mentioned that you received a lot of help. You mind telling us a story or mentioning someone in specific that made a really positive difference in your life. My big thing about Academy Insider is you never you can never underestimate the impact of simple actions and the impact it can make on people's lives. So do you have a like a story you specifically remember of someone who made a really positive impact in your your Naval Academy?
Speaker 2Absolutely, absolutely, um. One of my biggest mentors, um was the president of our parents club and she uh started to invite us to the meetings and immediately, like, named us secretaries, probably knowing very well, and started handing over different jobs, like, oh, you come with me to the ladies tea, because every year we have a ladies tea and you'll know and I'll introduce you and then you'll be in charge of that, oh and this, you can be in charge of this and this and and anyway. By the time, uh, the end of the year came, uh, even before I day, we were well versed in club operations and she had handed everything off to me. But what did that do? It helped me to see how the parents club network works.
Speaker 2I met all the people from the Alumni Association, the amazing people that dedicate so much time to helping the Parents Club work. I met so many other parents. I met other mentors just from that Navy connection direction, um, the whole bgo network and we ourselves became bgos eventually. So it is, um, I can't emphasize enough what the naval academy community, in particular the parents club community, uh, how much they it can benefit particularly new parents. So that's kind of my. It's not exciting, but it that's my story.
Speaker 1No, I love it. I love it and, as we get ready to wrap up here, first of all, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. This has been such a great episode and a great opportunity again just to reconnect and talk about the parent experience and preparation for IDA and getting people pointed in the direction of your resources. But what would be your last parting and final advice and thoughts about the Naval Academy journey in general as a parent, what would you leave the listeners?
Speaker 2with Wow, there's so much Grant. Well, first of all, let me start out by thanking you for everything that you do, for bringing Academy Insider back, for equipping parents, not just from a parent's perspective but from a midshipman's perspective, because as parents we don't ever want to be a burden to our mids, and you offer this very balanced perspective between what mids go through and then bringing in the parent perspective as well. So thank you for everything you do and connecting the baby community. As far as advice, there are a couple of things that I write off the top of my head.
Speaker 2Don't compare notes, don't look at how Grant's journey is going versus Annie's journey, because everybody's journey is different. So don't feel like your journey has to fit a mold, because there is no mold. We're all individuals and our journey goes very differently. It depends on your son or daughter's company. It depends on your son or daughter's leadership, which is going to change halfway through plebe summer and then into the act year. It depends on a lot of things. So don't compare notes, don't feel badly or poorly.
Speaker 2Again, take everything with a grain of salt, particularly with letters and phone calls. Be encouraging, nothing negative. We just went through something actually where, while my daughter was on deployment, there was a parent of one of her fellow squadron mates that reached out and peppered this poor person with all sorts of questions, to the point that they were so stressed out that my daughter became so worried she reached out to me and then I reached out to her friend to kind of calm her down. So always keep in mind that our kids are under so much stress. We don't need to add to their stress. We need to be a calming influence.
Speaker 2And also what I would part with is, as our kids develop into naval officers, we're going to feel very much probably by the end of plebe summer, if not plebe year like we're not needed as parents, and it's kind of a very sad point in time, but also very exciting, because now they're adults, they're independent, they're, they're self-sustaining, they're learning all these leadership and other skills. And the good news is that, no matter how much you think that you're not needed, they're going to call you one day. Whether it's because they need a recipe, they need to remember how they sort laundry, whether it's to mom or moving, can you come help out and move? Or hey, I'm getting engaged. What do you think about this engagement ring? So there are a lot of opportunities, albeit different, more of an advisor role again, where you're going to be needed, mom and dad will always be needed, it's just in a different way. So, no worries, we're still relevant. We're still relevant 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1I think it's funny is, even as I've gotten older and gone through my experience, like there's still to this day you know, even through all the military experience and all the different things, I still call my mom and dad all the time. I like you always be you always be the mom and dad, right? And then you know, no matter how old I get, no matter how much of an adult I am, I'm still. I'm still a baby. I'm still your baby. I'm going to need some love and support.
Speaker 1So just just just know that it doesn't, as we, as we prepare you for the reality of the experience, those don't want you to lose hope. It's not like they're going to completely take you away from um, from still the dynamic of being a mom and dad. Right, we're just trying to, you know, provide our insight and wisdom to help to best prepare for navigating the complexities in the changes in the relationship as they go. And you know, I think the number one thing that you can do that will literally best support your midshipman is by taking is by making the extra effort to educate yourself. With all the resources that are out there now, with a USNA mom's journal, with these podcasts, with my mid to kid, you know Carl Smith's blog, with your blog, with all these different things in Academy Insider, you can get yourself to a baseline knowledge that allows you to understand stories that are told by your son and daughter, and you are no longer burdening them by having to pause them and ask what every little thing is.
Speaker 2Right.
Speaker 1I think that actually makes such a massive difference If you can just slightly understand and take the time to educate yourself a little bit of the process, because now having a conversation with your son and daughter is no longer a burden or frustrating to them, right, it can be fun to them or you're able to support them and understand what they're going through a little bit better and know how to better support them, right, and so take advantage of these resources and thank you so much for joining us today. This was so fun to get to reconnect and do this. I appreciate you having me on your podcast and I just can't wait to continue to do these, do this. I appreciate you having me on your podcast and I just can't wait to continue to do these things together and you know maybe put a little teaser out there, maybe doing a little Facebook live Q&A session for Ida or anything of the sort.
Speaker 1I think we may be able to make something happen.
Speaker 2That would be awesome. You know I'm up for anything. I love working with you, grant, and again, I'm so thankful for everything you do, and it's been a pleasure to reconnect and to be here with you, to be a guest on your podcast, for you to turn the tables on me and ask the question about that.
Speaker 1That's right. I love it All right. Well, academy Insider audience, thank you so much for taking the time to listen. Feel free to reach out to me at any point. I much for taking the time to listen. Feel free to reach out to me at any point. I can put you in touch with Andy or post all of her resources in the show notes as well Links everywhere so you can get direct access to everything she's putting out. We appreciate it. Thank you so much and I hope you have a great day. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Academy Insider Podcast. I really hope you liked it, enjoyed it and learned something during this time. If you did, please feel free to like and subscribe or leave a comment about the episode. We really appreciate to hear your feedback about everything and continue to make Academy Insider an amazing service that guides, serves and supports midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. Thank you.
