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The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families. Through the perspective of a community of former graduates and Naval Academy insiders, this podcast will help you learn about life at the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis. Through our shared experiences, Academy Insider guides families through the anxiety and frustration caused by lack of understanding, misinformation, and confusion. This platform is designed to better relationships between midshipmen and their loved ones. This podcast is not affiliated with the United States Naval Academy, the United States Navy or Department of Defense. The thoughts and opinions are exclusively those of your host and his guests.
The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience
#094 Navy Formula SAE - Building Cars and Character
Did you go watch Brad Pitt in the F1 movie?! Did you know the United States Naval Academy has a Formula team? The Naval Academy Formula SAE Team is a unique capstone project that combines automotive engineering with leadership development.
In this episode, we sit down with Kevin Burnett, a former midshipman turned USNA instructor and officer representative for the Navy Formula SAE team. Kevin shares his journey from the Academy to the Civil Engineer Corps and back again, offering invaluable insights into this exciting program.
What is Formula SAE?
Formula SAE is a collegiate competition where students design, build, and race small-scale formula-style racing cars. While not affiliated with Formula One, it offers a similar thrill and engineering challenge. The Naval Academy's team competes annually against 120 other universities at the Michigan International Speedway.
Why Formula SAE Matters for Midshipmen
Kevin explains how this program offers unparalleled opportunities for engineering students to apply classroom knowledge to real-world problems. Beyond technical skills, it develops:
- Peer leadership abilities
- Project management expertise
- Communication skills
- Resilience in the face of challenges
Key Takeaways from this Episode
• The unique challenges of running a Formula SAE team at a service academy
• How underclassmen can get involved and set themselves up for success
• The importance of humility and proactive learning in leadership development
• Parallels between Formula SAE team dynamics and military leadership
Words of Wisdom for Future Leaders
Kevin leaves us with powerful advice for aspiring service academy students and future military leaders:
"Be humble, be confident, and go. Go on. Almost find adversity. See what your limits are. And guess what? That limit's not going to be permanent. Find the limit, figure out how to fix it, and build and build and build."
Whether you're a gear head, an aspiring naval officer, or simply curious about unique educational experiences, this episode offers a fascinating glimpse into a program that's shaping the next generation of military engineers and leaders.
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community with nationwide consulting and connection.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
Connect with Grant on Linkedin
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If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: podcast@academyinsider.com.
If you're a fan of Formula One, you're going to love this episode, especially as we have a little Naval Academy twist to it. Welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast. My name is Grant. I'm looking forward to getting to bring on Kevin Burnett. He's an instructor at the Naval Academy. He was a midshipman himself and now he's a big component and a piece and, like the officer representative of the Navy Formula SAE team, it's not associated with like the actual F1 brand, the Formula One brand, but it's in a similar vein, similar industry. It's an automotive engineering type team and this is a really cool thing that a handful of midshipmen are going to do every year as a capstone project, and so if you're interested in this world of F1 and Formula Racing in general and the Naval Academy, you're going to get a kick out of this episode. We share a ton of stories about his time in the Civil Engineer Corps as well, what brought him back to the Academy and his hope, goal, mission and intent with being involved with the Formula SAE team. So really looking forward to it. If you have any questions, as always, please let me know. Otherwise, enjoy the episode. Thank you so much for the listen.
Speaker 1:Before we jump in, I do want to highlight that Academy Insider is powered by my for-profit business, the Vermeer Group. We do real estate consultation and connection across the country for service academy families. So if you're thinking about buying or selling a home, I would love if you reached out to me. It would support me and support Academy Insider, and I'd love to get to talk to you about real estate as well. So thank you so much, let's jump into it. Hope you enjoy the episode.
Speaker 1:All right, everyone, welcome back to the Academy Insider podcast. My God, kevin, thanks so much for being here with us today and taking the time to talk about a really cool topic, because for anyone out there who's just a fan of the formula series or F1, people seeing this on TV and all over the place this is a popular topic and I don't think a lot of people know that the Naval Academy has a formula team, and so I'm excited for you to be here. Before we jump too deep in the topic, I want to give you the opportunity to introduce yourself, tell us what brought you to the Naval Academy and a little bit about your story through the Navy.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, hey, grant, first off, thanks to you and your team for just having me on here. Man, Honored to be a part of this and honored to be back here at the academy in an instructor role. Man, long journey, I will say. It's been filled with a lot of adversity and I am honestly so thankful for that.
Speaker 2:And, to kind of start at the back, grew up in Newcastle, delaware, so not too far from the Naval Academy. Honestly, not a military family, no background there. But 9-11 happened when I was in high school. I was actually in a military history class when it happened and I just knew I had to be part of something to support that. Didn't know what it would look like, didn't know what it would be, but I just knew something was talking to me there and I ended up applying to the Naval Academy. Getting in, I figured three things. I said all right, I know I want to lead the military, number one priority. I want to be a mechanical engineer. I was a gearhead growing up. Love, love, motorcycles, cars, trucks, great engineering. And then I'm going to play football too and wasn't a recruit Humbled there. We'll talk about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we can talk a lot about that. So I went there for three reasons, only got two of them and that's okay. Yeah, a ton we can talk about at my time at the academy. But to jump ahead a little bit, was supposed to be a sub-officer, had an unfortunate air embolism during a medical procedure and it forced me to redesignate and ended up getting picked up by the Civil Engineer Corps, so cec for short for a lot of those folks. A lot of folks see cec or the civil engineer corps, not not so commonly known, but cbs. Most folks at least have heard of them or maybe have heard of the construction battalions, the cbs. So I've been been a cec officer since and have spent a fair amount of time on my career back here teaching, so that that brings us kind of today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's fantastic. And through that piece, just again, I know this isn't an episode about the CB community, but where did your career path take you? Right Again, I know, like you know, submarine, it's a pretty structured pathway and everyone basically knows hey, I'm going to Charleston, I'm going to nuclear power school, I'm going to go to prototype, I'm going to go to my ship, Like what's it look like on the on the CB side, and kind of, what was your experience in the Navy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So honestly, pretty unorthodox too, and this is one of the highlights of the CEC. You kind of have two big pillars, which is the maybe the operational side. We'll call that the green side CBs, deployments, building stuff, attaching to the Marine Corps, attaching to the army, attaching to SEAL teams, doing that whole stuff in the dirt. But then there's more of the we'll call it the NAVFAC side of the house Naval Facility Engineering Command, and that's maintaining our installations around the world. So what's cool about a CEC officer is you actually could get stationed at every single Navy and Marine Corps installation, or at least have the opportunity to do. You can't hit them all because your career is not going to make that happen, but if you look at a billet list and we can hit, we've got all of them, because our job is to support the line officers, right Line communities. What do they need? If the surface fleet needs a new pier, we're going to figure that out. If the runways are in despair at Pensacola, we'll try to improve them. If the Marine Corps needs a new school at TBS or a new facility, we'll make that happen.
Speaker 2:So I got to go to NMCB 11, so Naval Mobile Construction, battalion 11, out of Gulfport, mississippi. That was my first operational unit. We went to the Pacific, did a PACOM deployment nearly a year long, so got a ton of experience there. Spent a lot of time in Okinawa, came back, went to Quantico and supported the Marine Corps as a construction manager, so basically new construction and renovations for them. Spent about nearly two years there, Volunteered, for an individual augmentee, so that was pretty a hot thing in that we'll call it 2005 to 2015 timeframe. So did an IA joint Navy army. We went to Afghanistan Ghazni, afghanistan so did a tour there.
Speaker 1:Can you explain what the term IA means for someone who may not be familiar?
Speaker 2:Yep, absolutely so. Individual augmentee. Yep, absolutely so, individual augmentee. So instead of taking a unit to do a mission, we can take operators, whoever we need, and say, all right, let's put this team together and make it. Yeah, it's super interesting.
Speaker 1:I apologize, I'm just going to tack on there real quick, because that was big in the cryptologic community as well. So I was a cryptologic officer. We did a lot of IAs because it was one of these things, whereas you weren't going to send an entire command of 150 cryptologists, but you may need one cryptologist and maybe you know three cryptologic enlisted support individuals to like to go out there and do a mission for someone right, or join some army signals, battalions or whatever the case is, and so you get a lot of cool opportunity there, which is a really unique niche aspect of the Navy world Because, again, usually a submarine is just going to go on deployment, a ship is just going to go on deployment, but some of these support staffs or support officers yeah, we do a lot of IAs, we do a lot of individual augmentation across the globe, which is really cool. So, anyway, appreciate letting me jump in there and back to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So yep, finished that tour up and then the CEC said, hey, you've done a fair amount of operational stuff NAVFAC stuff and you need a staff billet to kind of balance things out. I said, all right, give me the options. They said, okay, you can be a flag aid, you can work at Pentagon and kind of push some paper and prep some briefs, if you want, or you can be an instructor. And I said tell me about my instructor options briefs if you want, or you can be an instructor. And I said tell me about my instructor options.
Speaker 2:And there were two on the table. One is our is our basic school. We call it Seacoast Civil Engineer Corps Officer School, port Hueneme. They they were kind of plussed up there and they said we're struggling to fill the academy billet or billets, and what will be nice, you'll go there, you'll get your graduate degree too and you'll teach some engineering and it'll be a nice stepping stone in your career. And I said sign me up. I was a midshipman, I struggled there, I got a ton of lessons learned and if anyone can bring some lessons learned, I'm going to bring a truckload of them. And so ended up doing that and it actually didn't work out as planned and I ended up affiliating with the reserves and I've been on and off reserve, kind of a drilling reservist, and then doing some mobilizations and some activations in the in the meantime. So that kind of brings us brings us now.
Speaker 1:So I've got to see some cool stuff Very interesting. And again you mentioned, you know, you kind of had some some struggle, adversity, difficulty during your time as a midshipman as well. You know, what I want to ask about is some of that adversity and difficulty, but also specifically right Like this idea of and it sounds like maybe you had wanted, especially with your engineering brain, wanted to be a submariner for a long time right, like, how was, how was that adjustment for you of being like, oh, I want to be a submariner, I want to be a submariner, I'm going to be a submariner, and then having this medical issue, that kind of shifted you to the civil engineer core. And how did you, how did you deal with that? How did you cope with that? And kind of, how did your time as a midshipman prepare you for that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll. I'll kind of I'll be straight up. I I did. When I came to the academy I didn't know what I wanted to do. I really didn't. And honestly, I had one mentor and he was my weapons instructor and he was a sub guy. He was getting out and there were a lot of folks. Maybe it's just bad timing, but there were a lot of folks that were getting out after the instructor tour and it could have been the pre-9-11. Like, a lot of those folks joined pre-9-11 and things were changing and, like you said, IAs and all these deployments, and so I struggled to find a mentor. But there was a sub guy who actually took me under his wing because it was our career starter loan and it sounds almost embarrassing. But look, man, I'm humble and I don't care. They're like, hey, you're going to get some money and you can take this loan if you want.
Speaker 2:They're like hey, you're going to get some money and you can take this loan if you want. And he had a. He set aside like 20 minutes of class and was dropping all this knowledge on Roth, ira this and interest rate that, and I had no idea what he's talking about, like my, my folks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know what that means we're blue, we're blue, look, blue collar Delaware, we're surviving. And I afterwards I said, hey, lt, sir, I I honestly don't know what you're talking about. And he's like no problem, yeah, give me a free period. You come to my office and was so cool about teaching me and educated and there was no dumb questions and I was like I want to follow this guy and he's a sub guy and I'm going to go do that. I'm a Mechie, I'm going to go do that and that's really why I picked it.
Speaker 2:New school was tough and I went through. No kidding, it's a six-month power school. I went through five months, three weeks, and during the fourth week I got my erromalism, like the whole thing. And what was tough about it was well, one. I mean I don't know how to survive, like to survive an erromolism, like like that.
Speaker 2:I was in a naval hospital in charleston and where it happened and I wake up and I'm on oxygen. I'm strapped to a stretcher on my left side like I'm, like I'm in a saint, like a uh, like they got me strapped, like they're worried I'm gonna go nuts. I'm soaked. I'm sweat, like soaked in my kh. I'm in a room I've never been in my life and there's a Navy captain, a doc, there and I got my oxygen on. He's like don't roll over, you're going to die. You haven't you have an air bubble suspended in your heart and we got to get you to a recompression chamber in downtown Charleston and I watched down there. I'm in this chamber for for nearly 12 hours. My advisor comes in hey, thankfully you're alive. We're going to roll you back eight weeks. This is great, you can kind of recover and all this.
Speaker 2:So I'm in the hospital. A couple of days I come back and she's, and she gets the leadership from the power school and they say, hey, unfortunately it's too much red tape medically and they're very honest with you about it, which I respect that. But to be told you're not worth cutting through red tape, that that stuck. So I won't, I won't lie and say it felt good. But I did appreciate the honesty, like, hey, we can't, honestly, we can't risk putting any more money into it because we don't know what, what, what your medical condition could lead to. Yeah, it's just the unknown, it's not something we're going to mess with. So please redesignate. So I went from like kind of being crushed to I'm one who just look as long as you get back up, you're good. And I kind of got back up and they're handing me this book. It looked like a pro novel and it was a little pamphlet alphabetical order and it was all the communities you could pick, like aviation duty maintenance officer. Second one like Civil Engineer Corps.
Speaker 2:I'm like man. I remember this from CB's dirt Chucks Whitman.
Speaker 1:I'm like, hey, this is the one too.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was like, put it in. And they're like no, no, no, you need two weeks, we need five of them. I was like, no, no, no, you need two weeks, we need five of them. I was like, no, no, I'll put this five times. They're like, no, no, no, seriously, you need five. Five SWO's got to be on there. You got to put SWO on there somewhere. So I said, okay, five swokers as a mid. We'd go back to that if we want. And I was like, okay, cec's number one and I'm going to put three things in the middle that they can't give me because of my medical condition. They're not, I'm not going to be a seal, I can't be eod, right, nothing with diving and water. So I think I lucked out because I forced their hand and I did in a session.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did in a sessions visit to like meet the cec community and that, I think, put it over the top. So I went from quickly being told you ain't worth it to just saying, okay, no problem, you want to shut the door on me, I'm going to find a window that's open, I'm going to get in this building and I'm going to work with whoever wants to work with me, and it was the CEC at that point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's, it's really cool. I appreciate you sharing your story and something that I'm interested in about is kind, be your company officer, or it's going to be the commandant, or if it's going to be your senior enlisted leader, or it's going to be your random EM 300 teacher who's telling you about Roth IRAs in class when you take out your career starter loan, right. But like there's so many incredible people across the spectrum and so you know, for you who had kind of had you know it sounds like again a little some adversity at the Naval Academy went through this major life changing and shifting moment, through your time in the Navy. How did you want to approach being an instructor, giving back to the midshipmen, imparting your wisdom and sharing your stories and making a positive impact in the life of midshipmen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. To tell you the truth, it's utterly simple in my book I just want to make the next wave better than me. And that is the epitome of leadership, like here's everything I've got lessons learned. Run with it and do better than me. And while you're doing it, I'm going to keep elevating the standard. And if I can make you better than me and you can make the next wave better than you and we can keep doing that, we are going in the right direction.
Speaker 2:And that part of it's pretty simple and I think for me it's always just being humble, and people can follow someone who's. If you're genuine and you're humble enough to admit the things that you got tripped up on, people listen to you, right, they can relate to you, and then they open up. They'll ask you about that EM300 problem that they're struggling with. They'll talk to you about the sport team they're on and they're not getting the playing time they need. Or they'll talk to you about their family member who's sick at home or whatever it is. Because you humbly opened the door first and while I was a midshipman, there were a few instructors who did that more, who didn't, and I felt like that is not okay. We need to do better at that.
Speaker 2:And human nature, I think, in my opinion, is we focus on the, on the, the outsides, the top 20%. They get the, the, all the love. I don't care if it's academics, sports, we like extremes, so everyone is doing awesome. We, we laser, focusing on folks who struggle we also focus on too, especially in academics. Hey, you need my help. What about the middle six, the middle 60? They get, they get glazed over because and that was me, I was in the middle 60, I'll call it, and you know, as a mid, physically fit, looked good in uniform, didn't really get in trouble, mecky, my grades weren't the best, but overall, like, I think, burnett, that guy burnett, he's got order it.
Speaker 1:Order of merit.
Speaker 2:Right at 500.
Speaker 1:Just like he's cruising, all good.
Speaker 2:But they're like the perception is the dude's good, but deep down I'm like what am I?
Speaker 1:doing.
Speaker 2:I need some help and I said I'm going to make sure I go back and help and I'm going to impact every single student that's in my class, Every single student. I walk by in the hall, I'm going to greet you, I'm going to ask how you're doing. I just I just try to be genuine and I try to be humble because, if not, I may miss an opportunity to impact them, and it's just, you won't get that back, so just just interact, and that's what made me want to do it, and it honestly has been. It's not that the stuff's easy, but the intent is easy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, and it's special, again, I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that about the Naval Academy because there's such involvement, direct involvement from the staff and the life of midshipmen, and it sounds like maybe it's developed over time and continue to to, you know, build into that, which is which is incredible.
Speaker 1:Because, again, for me, you know, build into that, which is which is incredible.
Speaker 1:Because, again, for me, you know, my number one mentor, like the person who kind of made the biggest impact in my life, was my officer representative of the basketball team, right, like at the time, major Kruisinger, like that was the man who carried me from from a really difficult point to adopting, embracing, believing in the system, the process, everything that was going on and made me understand the beauty in the Naval Academy experience, right, and so I think it's really cool because then, you've also found a way now to stay involved with midshipmen, even outside of the direct classroom, which is your involvement with the formula team, formula SAE, and so I want to give you this opportunity now to to talk about what that is, because, again, for me, as a midshipman, my roommate was on the formula team, so I knew about it.
Speaker 1:But if, if it weren't for that and the fact that like he was talking about, like building engines and stuff like I would have had no idea that existed at the Naval Academy, and so I want to give you an opportunity to talk about all the cool stuff that midshipmen are doing in the realm of engineering and automotive. You know engineering specifically and just turn it over to you there, sure, sure.
Speaker 2:So, so big picture formula. Sae is a university competition that happens every year. We compete at the Michigan international speedway. There's 120 universities that are led into the competition, there's more that want to get in, and it's there's 120 universities that are led into the competition, there's more that want to get in. And it's like no kidding, like tickets sell out in a minute, like that kind of thing. You got to be ready to register and go and what you do it's typically in our case.
Speaker 2:For us we're a little different. Being a service academy, we can dive into some of those details. But we've got roughly 20 midshipmen who are engineering majors. So a lot of mechies, a lot of mechanical. But we got aero, we've got the WRC folks, whether it's EE or robotics, we've got general engineers. So we've got this group of a couple different flavors and disciplines of engineering. They're split up into sub-teams Could be the powertrain, the engine and that kind of stuff. Could be the suspension and the vehicle dynamics, be the arrow, the wiring, like all these sub teams. And you say, hey, this is your, this is your capstone, right, your senior design project, your capstone. But we're going to put it all together and we're going to make a race car and we're going to go compete. So it's midshipman led. It's midshipman design, fabricate and and and test, and sometimes the test doesn't always happen like we want and then ultimately drive or compete with this thing against 120 other teams.
Speaker 2:The hard part is they got what they think is a year, but in reality you don't have a year. For example, that the nr 2016 was formed around spring. Just before spring break just identified, hey, you, 20 midshipmen are going to be on the team. Well, before they know it, it it's end of April. It's over six weeks later and they're trying to figure out what they do next and they don't know yet. But they should be designing. And then you go on summer leave, you go on summer training and before you know it, you come back, it's reform. And then it's September and you're like, oh. You're like, oh, man, time to go. We had time to go Right, so it is.
Speaker 2:It is a really challenging project for service academies, but for it's a badge of honor for these, for these kids, it is like being I'm sure how it is to be a member of the Navy basketball team or the football team or whatever. It's something that they're going to carry with them because they know they went through this tough program and, honestly, it ain't the car. It's a way to develop real life skills. Leadership, especially peer leadership. We know that's the hardest one. We all can complain. Up the chain of command. We can go down, but somehow it's really challenging to go left or right and try to tell your friend, your buddy, your wardroom member of equal rank or experience, hey, step up or hey, I need you to do this, and it is stuff in life that people struggle with.
Speaker 2:So it is a way to develop those leadership skills and the communication skills, right to have the backbone to talk it out and figure it out, and then really just the project management, because we know in the fleet you're going to be people, money, time, a mission, and you got so long to do it. How do we do it? And the car is just, in my opinion, a really cool way to develop those skills. So that's it in a nutshell. Most schools we compete against. They want a job in motorsports, they want it butascar, formula one, moto gp, moto america, drag racing, whatever our, our midshipmen. Not that they can't do that later on, right, but guess what we?
Speaker 1:got you, you got a commitment.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, you got a commitment, but after that maybe some doors open up, maybe that's a resume, yeah for you. So that's. That's it in a nutshell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, first question. I'm sure the question anyone who's like not super engineering focused like me potentially how do you guys determine who gets to drive the car? Who's the midshipman that gets to drive that sucker dude?
Speaker 2:That's always number one, number one, okay. So technically it depends. I'll say it depends, and here's what it could depend on. It can depend on the involvement of that midshipman, for example, if you are all in on it and you put in the hours right and you're invested in it and I'm not right and I'm slacking, I'm not carrying that boat, guess what? You got a better chance of driving than me, okay. So that's involvement, piece of it. Involvement, piece of it. Another piece of it is no kidding, this your size, okay, if, look, I will never be, even if I would never be, the guy who's going to drive the. The acceleration run right where it's basically like a drag shirt. I'm 245 pounds, a big boy it ain't happening it's not happening right.
Speaker 2:so it's the size. So if we have, you know, a female or a male who's smaller in stature, who can drive, great. And then the third piece will be like truly, can you drive right? So like, do you have the ability, the motor skills, hand-eye coordination or confident driving, because it is, it's very for the listeners, it's very like autocross-based. So imagine parking lot tight cones, it's not really wide open. It's very like autocross based. So imagine parking lot, tight cones, it's not really wide open. It's not high, high speeds, it's incredible acceleration and braking and G-forces and lateral. You know lateral G-forces, but one from a safety standpoint. We don't want college kids ripping around. You know, laguna Seca or the circuit of the Americas at 160 miles an hour, like that's not what we're after. So everything's really tight and it's very challenging. So you got to have some motor skills. So really, size, involvement and motor skills.
Speaker 2:And typically most teams will allow certain mids to do certain events. Like you may do part of the endurance event with someone else and then they'll split it. Someone else maybe, like I said, a small female lightweight, she'll do the Excel run and then maybe one other guy or gal will do the skid pad or something along those lines, so they try to spread that love. The midshipmen decide, though. Captain Hamilton, who's currently the faculty advisor, and he's been doing it for over 20 years. He actually started. He came here when I was a mid and he was running at them. He's like, hey, they decide, let them the mid and he was running at them. He's like, hey, they decide.
Speaker 1:Let them. Let them decide. I won't change that. I'll let them pick it up. No, that's fair, and you mentioned this, like again, teams, there are teams and there's a competition right At the end against other universities. Can you just talk a little bit about, like what, that that culminating event is right, that they're actually competing in, give a little bit of background on that, and like, does Navy over the course of how long we've done this now? Like, do we have any rivals? Like, are there any institutions that are like constantly like top tier in in formula, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:This is good stuff. Good question. So again, every May, every May in in Michigan, we do the comp. It is, it is intense, like it is an intense three-day event and and where it starts with is like getting your car through what they call get your car through. Tech means it needs to be technically inspecting.
Speaker 2:There is 125 page rule book that some teams may miss stuff and if you miss it it does not matter. You are not driving your car on in any of these events if you can't meet these rules because, let's face it, it's a safety chair and it's attention to detail, so that that in itself like there are teams on a lower level that if they just pass tech, it's like a win to them and they might be a small community college or small college where they have six people on their team or they might be a first year team and their goal was to hey, we want to make comp and pass tech right now. Navy, we've been doing it long enough. That's not we got to be better than that, but there are teams. That's respectable.
Speaker 2:Then you have the teams that make tech, who stuff falls off, falls off the car in a rut, like no kidding, like we're at a mock competition the other day and I'm gonna knock on the navy team a little bit. They weren't ready. They should have been ready. They weren't ready, but the other schools were. So we went and there was one of the other teams and my son was there with me because he loves. He loves cars and he's a little gearhead. And the student comes up, says to their team, leads like oh hey, I think we have a problem with all the hardware falling off our car and I mean there's that's's a little problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we got a small problem but it's one of those like very basic things. And hey look, you got to test a high rpm engine. Things are vibrating, they're coming loose. Maybe you didn't use the proper torque or you didn't safety wire something. And these are real skills. That I look at it like if you're, if you're a jo in the fleet and you're watching an aviation mechanic, safety wire or something you're like oh, I've done that race car. Oh, that's important, because I surely don't want my aircraft falling out of the sky, right. So so you see that level of team of just they made it through tech, now stuff's falling apart. You see teams then on the whole other end of the spectrum they look like a no kidding professional. Nascar Formula One team.
Speaker 2:They have matching, you know shirts and their trailers, wrapped in the car, looks like you know it's perfect carbon fiber and it has decals that are laid out. I mean, it's beautifully, aesthetically pleasing, and you know the fit and finishes Right and all those kind of students, Guess what they're going to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good, that's going to be their career. Right, that's their job. Yeah, that's their career.
Speaker 2:So historically for Navy, I'll tell you this 120 students, the best we ever did was in the 2015, 16, 17, 18 era, so spun around.
Speaker 1:Come on now, baby, come on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Those are my friends. Yeah, come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I knew it too. Those are my friends.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, come on now. Yeah, 40. So top, you could call that we just made the top third or we're the top of the second tier. Okay, which for a service academy one year is very respectable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's actually Because most oh, please no continue.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say. Most students on other teams, when they're freshmen, they're going, let's say they're going to Clemson, they're going to Georgia Tech, wherever Purdue, ohio State. They know I want to work for General Motors one day. So when they go in and they're freshmen, hey, I want to be a mechanical engineer. And where's your car team at? And every free right, where our mids are running out there doing practice parades and marching to watch a football game. You know what I'm saying. These guys are out renting and they're driving cars. We can't heck our campus alone, virginia tech. They probably can roll their car out into an open parking lot and let it rip on a weeknight. Oh, actually, our sister, our sister team, college park maryland, they'll reserve a parking lot at midnight and run their car for three hours at night. Well, guess, I mean, you've been on the. Where are you going to drive a little race car at? It's not going to happen. No, one's going to let you. It's not going to happen. So we can't even get seat time.
Speaker 1:I was about to say driving a car at 2 in the morning too sounds way less fun when you've got to be up for formation at 7 am too.
Speaker 2:No, sleeping in until noon. After that's right, we have a ton of constraints. So for that era of team you know, around christian's era for those teams to hit call it 40th, like that's impressive. And what did it was? We had underclass involvement there, informally. We had fourth class, third class, second class who just wanted to be a part of it. They were stuck on the yard. They're like you know what. And actually, oh, I get tuesday night liberty. Nah, I'm not gonna go out in town and spend my money doing stupid stuff. I want to go work on a race car. And those students, when they were firsties, they weren't starting from ground zero, they knew what they were getting into and it resulted in that. So I told the current batch and when I take over next year, I said if you can touch 40th, you're doing something. So I'm trying to be realistic with them and I would love to see it because that's growth. We need growth.
Speaker 1:We need development. That's fantastic and I appreciate you saying that because that was going to be my segue when I almost jumped in. That was my question, which was, again, it sounds like a lot of universities, again they do this for four years At the Naval Academy. It's a capstone project. So there's two, two, two things here that I want to kind of ask about, which is one for anyone who's you know, listening, who may not be familiar with, like the Naval Academy capstone, like platform and project. You mind giving a rundown on on that? And then the second piece goes back into underclass involvement. Knowing that this is really designed for people in their first year, midshipmen in their first year, how does a midshipman get involved if they want to be involved as an underclassman?
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, perfect, okay. So with Capstone in general and I'll just kind of speak, just Kevin Burnett, the MECI side, the engineering house, right, every engineering student has a Capstone project. They do as a senior. It could be a small team of two, three, four people that are doing a, you know, a humanitarian based project. They're designing something for the Navy, they're working on an airfoil because they're aero majors they're. They're creating some you know, electronic control module because they're double E, or robotics or computer engineering.
Speaker 2:It's just a lot of what we'll call small projects. The car team just happens to be one where you put them all together, right, where, let's say, christian was a powertrain guy, maybe he was just doing exhaust tuning, like he designed the whole exhaust system and figured out how it would flow, it would meet the sound requirements of the rules, it would look good, it would be lightweight, it would fit our engine, it wouldn't fall off right, like that's a capstone project in itself. And so, yeah, it's just a call it a small team project, applying what you learned for for call it two years in the engineering classroom and then figuring out how do I design, fabricate and test something that meets some objectives, and that's, that's a senior capstone project, the, the, the second half sorry.
Speaker 1:All about underclassmen involvement right and so yeah, like how do underclassmen get involved, what can they be doing, et cetera. Yep, yep.
Speaker 2:So I will say, like there are hurdles for, for for men, right, and like I said, it could be the practice parade, it could be your sport, it could be company, a mandatory event. But I will tell you, teaching a youngster, third class design course for Mechies, and they are learning SolidWorks, which is a 3D computer modeling program. They're learning the basics of design. Well, one day we took them down to the shop where they met the civilian technicians we have in the shop I mean incredible talent down there, machinists, folks who deal with composites, welding, I mean you name it and it's a professional environment. And we taught them about what these folks expect when you submit a design drawing to them. And I told them you can come down here anytime you want. Let's say you're in Rickover Hall. You've got first, second and fourth period. What does most midshipmen do for third period?
Speaker 1:They go second and fourth period. Okay, what does most midshipmen do for?
Speaker 2:third period. They go back to taking that. They take it, they get on their phone and they're scrolling ig. Right, they're going to the library acting like they got a book, like, but you got 50 minutes. Go down to the shop, you see that machinist down there. Maybe they're turning something on a lathe, maybe the welder mick is down there and he's welding something. Sponge it up. That's so informal and you don't have to pay for it and it's right there. And guess what those technicians love that. And then they build a relationship with you.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like I tell my students and I can get to this in a second but I say know your server's name? Like, if you go to a restaurant, you come to my table hey, my name's Grant, I'll be serving you tonight. Would you like something to drink? Rarely does someone say, hey, grant, they rarely repeat the name first off. Hey, hey, grant, how are you doing tonight? And you're kind of taken back. You're like, oh, shoot, repeat it by name. I'm doing good, right, and you come back, you get your drinks and, hey, grant, where are you from? And what I'm doing? I'm just building a relationship, I'm being a real person with you. Well, now you're probably stepping up your service? Sure, because I'm engaged with you, I'm getting a better service right and in the end I get a good meal, you get a good tip.
Speaker 2:It's a win-win. It's the same in the shop. These guys down there they want to build you stuff, these, when it's your time, capstone time and you go down there and you say, hey, andy, I need you to machine this for me. Grant, I got you covered. Buddy, I'll crank that out as soon as I can. Right, hey, I need this welded. Hey, I can do that for you. You build a relationship, so underclass, nothing formal. Just poke your head in there. You know what I treat them like a uniform. A lot of JOs are there. Oh, I'm scared of the mess.
Speaker 2:The mess is at least in the.
Speaker 2:CB world they are in. You better be humble enough to say hey, I know I got to make the call today, but I don't know what the call is. I'm not afraid to ask you for help. You can beat me up all you want. I'm going to take that as positive reinforcement and I'll make a call and they'll love it. You know CB chiefs, they're tough, they're tough, they're tough cats. But that's the, that's the shop setting, right, it's, it's blue collar workers who work with metal and things like that, and they want to help Jay. They want to help midshipmen who are going to be future CEOs. So underclass involvement really is the midshipman. I love it, just involvement really is the midshipman.
Speaker 1:I love it, just get down there.
Speaker 2:Open the door. Be proactive, ask some questions. Proactive you know, we got fourth class and third class now who just popped their heads in why the current team NR25, is bum-rushing to build their car. What do we got Three weeks left. They got to be in Michigan in three weeks. They're still working on this car, never driven it yet, and midshipmen are coming down there and they're just poking their head in and I'm like, hey, get in the chaos. Get in there, roll your sleeves up. What do you got to lose?
Speaker 2:Man, take your notepad, write some stuff down, cause a lot of times, at least for me in the military and in life, it was more valuable to learn what not to do than what to do. And when you watch someone who's doing before you, they will tend to tell you what not to do, like, hey, man, when it's your turn, don't, don't design it this way. Here's why I can't get the engine in and out very easily. Or, oh, my goodness, I should have routed the wiring this way, cause now it's laying on the exhaust and it's going to melt, like just basic things. So, yeah, midshipmen, be proactive, get involved, don't be afraid of it. Just get it there, cause that is what that's really.
Speaker 1:It's really interesting, right. I think again in kind of a sad, humbling reality of the military is a lot of our lessons learned. Are our lessons learned in blood, right? And like a lot of our SOPs that have been created in the service world, in the aviation world, in the special warfare world, whatever it is, the SOPs are created based on mistakes that have happened, right, like things that have happened, and there is a certain level again when it comes to leadership. Sometimes you see someone that you want to emulate and you want to do stuff like them, but a lot of our course that has been provided that set the lateral limits for us, are based on mishaps that have happened or things that have gone wrong or things that didn't work right, and so you know being involved again, if you're actively involved for four years, guess what? You're going to see a lot of stuff over that four years, versus that four week period Right To be able to come in and participate and contribute and absolutely I mean, and that's really that's what it's about.
Speaker 2:You hit the nail on the head, man, and honestly, like I, I, I leadership's at two way street. It's reciprocating, right, it's. So I tell the upper class I'm like, don't be so self and not that they're being selfish, it's not but I was like your time is very valuable, but don't be afraid of some short-term laps for long-term growth. For example, if you've got a fourth class who's coming down here and you're a powertrain guy and he and he or she wants to help you, take five minutes, explain to them something, because then they're going to give you three hours back. But everyone's right, they, they're, they're, I don't get time. And then I want to develop and you're like, okay, but a humble leader says you know what? Yeah, I'm going to invest in you and I'm gonna spend a couple minutes because you're a force multiplier and that's what it's about. So one of my, my goals is, hey, upper class, like it's not that you're delegating everything, you're just investing in the next wave and I'm telling you you're going to learn more by trying to explain to them what you need them to do than you just trying to tackle it on your own, and that always worked for me.
Speaker 2:It worked well with CBs. I mean, cbs never worked for me. I work for them Like what hammer do you need a hammer? Today, I'll give you a hammer. You want a big hammer, you want a little hammer? Oh, you're going to do concrete. What do you? What do you need to accomplish your goal? Now, that was for me, or the skipper, or whoever we were supporting, but I work for them. It's the same with whatever the car team is. Get your underclass involved. They work like you work for them in a way, but in reality, they'll back you up and then you that's your safety net, man, and then they're going to do better than you and you want it. And it's just, I think, human nature. We kind of don't see the forest through the trees sometimes, but you got to be willing to give up your time and invest in people 100 again.
Speaker 1:I think there's a there's. There's something really special, exactly that which is, when you get into these positions of like military leadership right, you're talking about kind of you working for the Seabees. Like military officership a lot of the times is quite literally just being the champion for your division or for your unit to get them what they need to do their job right, and then to again be their champion when they have something personal going on in their life to get them the resources that they need to advance their career, to advance their personal life, to get them the help that they need. You're not telling them what to do, you're fighting on their behalf. That's when stuff works.
Speaker 2:That's when stuff works. No, that's awesome. It reminds me I remember my first deployment. We were building concrete pads for the Osprey and I went on the job site the first time. You know, I'm a JG, I'm in charge of a group of CBs that I probably shouldn't even be in charge of, right, it should be a Lieutenant role. They didn't have like I'm the guy, right, just you got them and I go up on the job site and it was like and you wear a white hard hat, like if you're senior enlisted or in the wardrobe, so it's like music kind of stops right, like, oh, there's a white hard hat, yeah.
Speaker 2:And at first it was very like you know what's up, sir, what are you doing that kind of thing. And I said, hey, here's the deal. We're on deployment. Who's doing the worst job on the site right now? Meaning like the job that anyone can do with zero skill. That is either really hard, strenuously, like you're going to sweat, or it's going to just like anyone can do it, just a person. I was like how about this? I'll do that, let me earn my stripes. You know what I'm saying. And you take that BUCN or whoever that low man or woman on the totem pole is let them go do something that will help them make BU3. Like, go set up forms or do something technical that that help them pass the exam, or give them a little bit of leadership.
Speaker 2:Well, here's why that works. They see me over there, I'm sweat, right, I'm sweating, I'm struggling. They're going to poke fun at you. Oh, look at sir over there, but what you're doing is you're building teamwork and you're like you said, you're letting them advance and you're also checking on things like there were plenty of times where they had it but they needed me and if I wasn't there we might've had an issue. But they came to me because we had a mutual respect and I humbly jumped in there first. I wasn't micromanaging, I was going to sweat with you and my, my style is let me do that first, and then, when I really need you, oh hey, we're behind because of weather or material delays and we got to work. You know, instead of seven tens, we're going to work seven twelves, right, and it's a hundred degrees. They're like no problem, sir, on it. We got it Because you gave a little bit first and we've got to be able to do that, and that's that humble leadership and I wouldn't do it any other way.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent.
Speaker 1:This is a shameless self-plug here For anyone who is listening and interested kind of in this dynamic.
Speaker 1:Right, I encourage you to go back and listen to the episode I did with Master Chief Anthony Amato, talking all about, like, the first relationship with a young division officer and their chief and how a JO should interact with the mess, right. And so when we use the term mess right I know Kevin had mentioned the mess being scared of the mess we're talking about the community of chiefs at a certain command, right, like, the mess is the chief's mess and that's that's what they be, that's what they become. And so, again, it's, it's it's pinnacle, it's peak military leadership is being a, is being a young, 22 to 25 year old walking into again, probably a 40 to 45 year old, some guy who's been in in the in the Navy for about as long as you've been alive, right, and and and and understanding how to work that partnership. Right, because if you don't act like it's a partnership, if you act like you're the boss and they're there for you, it's not going to go. Well, it's just not going to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I got it. I mean with with you propping that up, I got to run with it because I got to give props, like again to CB Chiefs, you know, the senior enlisted they are. We kind of fall like you got the Gray Navy, you got the Marine Corps. We're in the middle, okay, like we kind of are in the middle too the way we operate. But we have, I think, the best of both right Marine Corps. They're very they got it dialed. But sometimes that's a little too much. We're not as gung-ho sometimes.
Speaker 2:A little too, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, but we're in the dirt and we're supporting them. And then you got the Gray Navy, which we're not ship drivers, we're not on the water in the open seas and we don't quite understand that, but we're right in the middle and somehow I think CB chiefs they get it. Somehow I think CB chiefs like they get it and they are. I mean, it's nothing against senior officers that I've worked for, but I learned way more from the mess and it's because they really care about you when you come in and you're humble but you're also confident, right when you say hey, I know I got to make the call, but God gave me two ears and one mouth and I'm going to listen twice as much as I talk. But I'm going to start by listening to my people and they were incredible and I also give I want to give like the E5, e6 and the Seabees a ton of credit. Look, I've never been on a ship like in that realm, but the responsibility that we give E5s and E6s and the Seabees is incredible and they are like workhorses and they'll humble you, like you said. It was funny. You said about like they've been in the Navy longer than you've been alive First uniform inspection I ever did.
Speaker 2:Right, this is a good J O story, right? I'm a J G, I'm at new school, so my career got delayed. I'm not in an operational command, so I'm basically a J G and I'm a company commander of 108 C's, filling for a lieutenant, filling in for a lieutenant billet and, and I remember senior chief beck's like, hey, you gotta do uniform inspections. You just pick a squad, pick a platoon, pick a squad, we'll inspect them. Roger that. Well, cbs, and this is pre-type one, type two, type three candies this is back in the old woodlands. Well, that's all we wore, and then you never saw them in their whites like we're working. But we got to do a uniform inspection once in a while.
Speaker 2:Make sure they still own that stuff and they look sharp everybody's you know in weight standards and that stuff. So it's summer, whites, right or white. So I pick a squad and I go ccm1 and I'll leave his name out. I don't want to embarrass him by cm1. I I got my little usna starter pack.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm? I got my little USNA starter pack. You know what I'm saying? I got my little, your three ribbons, the national defense and the pistol rifle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no warfare device, just looking, you know, total newbie. I'm walking in front of this guy and it's like I can't even see his, his, his, excuse me, it's. You know, it's up on his collarbone, underneath his lapel, and I'm looking at this. You know 12 c-service ribbons, a bronze star with a d and I'm like that. Action ribbon, all of it, combat action ribbon. You know, I'm like cm1.
Speaker 2:How many sure I've been on, and it's just super humble. God wouldn't tell you if you didn't ask. I've just, I've been on 12 deployments. You know two, two battalions been at dev group, done all this stuff. You wouldn't know that. And there you are thinking you know two, two battalions been at Deb grew, done all this stuff. You wouldn't know that. And there you are thinking you know what, you, what you know. You don't know nothing, right? So they're the kind of people you need to engage with and be humble enough to say help me, help me develop, because I care for you, truly care for them. And they will, they will support you.
Speaker 2:And and a chief a chief said it best to me he's like our main job in the Navy is to develop a JO. And guess what? You're like our quarterback. We want to root for an awesome quarterback.
Speaker 2:So when you stand in front of us at quarters, I'm proud of the way you look and the way you sound and the way you carry yourself. I'm proud of the way you conduct yourself in the wardroom, how you come on jobs, all these little things that no one would think about. It's never the big thing, it's all the little stuff they're like. I'm proud of you as a well-rounded person. What we've made you, because guess what that's bragging rights when I'm in the mess, because I get to brag to my fellow chief, senior chief, master, chief, that guess what JG so-and-so or lieutenant so-and-so is better than your JV or your lieutenant. And I was like I never thought of it like that and they're like you're it. And it was very humbling to hear a guy like you said who's maybe I'm 23 and he's 43. And he's saying, hey, I just want to make the best version of you.
Speaker 2:And again, the mess, the CB mess especially. I think had that figured out really, really, really well. So if anyone's listening to that, you may be in charge, but you better, better listen to your team. And it's a nice balance there. And when it's, when it's dialed in, man, it's like a smooth running, it's like a well-walled machine right, a nice running engine. It works and yeah, I could. I wish I could do all that again and then sure you know absolutely.
Speaker 1:Just to bring this back a little bit, just back to the formula team, just to end it off here, I think I think we kind of answered all kinds of the logistic, cool aspects of of the team and what they do colloquially. Again, you would mention again, if you're talking to big thing, academy insider, just getting like lingo and terminology, right, it is the Nate, the Navy formula, society of automotive engineers, navy formula, sae is like the actual term for the entity. You'll just usually reference it as, like the formula team, though Correct, correct, um, yeah, correct and so, and so that's again, if you're referencing that, talking to people, again you'd be, you'd be referencing the formula team. Again, no affiliation to F1. Again, obviously the biggest brand in the world is F1 and it's a similar idea, but it's not associated with the brand. This is just the formula team.
Speaker 1:And for everyone now who's listening to you, kevin, like in your opinion, like why should midshipmen pursue this? Why should they do it? Because, again, from my perspective, again in hearing this, and maybe this is actually one more question for you, is that, like, this isn't a team, so you don't get to work on this during sports period, right, like you're having to do this during your almost academic hours and so, knowing that and knowing that it's an additional additive commitment, why, why should midshipmen do this? And what are they learning as a participant in this program, as a part of the formula team? That's going to set them up for life.
Speaker 1:That's going to set them up, for you know, their time as a part of the formula team. That's going to set them up for life. That's going to set them up, for you know, their time as a division officer or platoon commander in the Navy or Marine Corps. And what are. What's your goal for all anyone who comes through this, this team and program? What are you hoping to imbue and instill in them as they come through it? Awesome?
Speaker 2:Awesome. So I'll just say that I don't think there's a better opportunity on the yard for an engineering student to take what they learned in the classroom and apply it to actually a real world problem. The level of commitment that they need to put into it is above most capstones and, like you said, it's because it's a daunting project that we can't do outside. I mean, you do outside of your academic capstone period and you got, you know, late nights or weekends or whatever it is. But there's no other chance to put it all together like that, especially because the high level of competition that we compete against and that comes down to that rule book. That rule book is so tight because of the level of competition.
Speaker 2:You cannot have a college student build a race car and you might not go through it with a fine tooth comb, and that is very similar to the fleet. We have very stringent procedures, right, you said SOPs earlier. We have rules and regulations that we need to follow and if we can't even follow that, guess what we're not going outside the wire. Okay, and so that's like foundationally kind of what I talked about earlier. Nowhere else do I think you get the the chance to try to see how good your peer leadership is, and I will tell I don't care uniform or not. The world is not good at peer leadership, or just it's uncomfortable man, it's.
Speaker 2:It's uncomfortable, it's very, it's very uncomfortable, it's very uncomfortable right, whether it's friends or family or right your neighbor or another right, Another Lieutenant commander or whoever it is. It's awkward and it's hard. But I'm telling you what if, if you are willing to provide corrective criticism or feedback in a positive, professional manner and you're also willing to listen to it, you have a leg up on everyone else. And we hope that the car team does that, because then in the fleet they can do that Again. That communication piece, the project management, the engineering, all that's great For us.
Speaker 2:It's that peer leadership and it's hard and, like I said, it's outside of the uniform, it's outside of just employment, it's life. I mean, many times I've heard so many people. I'd love to tell my sister this, my brother that my, my neighbor, this, my, my, my another teammate, this, and they don't. And you're like, just go tell them I can't. You care about them, you love them, they are so close to you and you're telling me you don't have the backbone to try to help them. And that's a huge hurdle and I feel like the cartoons are nice and it happens in Bancroft too.
Speaker 1:There's waves right in the chain of command there's waves to hunt that out.
Speaker 2:So I would say that you know and this is not just Machitman, this is students I want to say this to students who are thinking about you know, I love cars or trucks or motorcycles, but I want to be in the military too and I think I can lead. Well, maybe a service academy like the Naval Academy is a place for you. And guess what? You do owe us a commitment and you're going to get more out of that commitment than most. But if you love cars and motorsports, formula SAE is for you and maybe you get after five years, you get out there for 15 years or 25 years, but maybe that's a career springboard for you. So it's just incredible opportunity. And yeah, like I said, I wish I could go back and and and change some of the midshipmen stuff. I mean, day one didn't start. You know, I tried to make a football team. That didn't work and all that stuff. And it's like you've got an opportunity and just, yeah, try to do your best with it, and that's one of those opportunities, love it.
Speaker 1:Just, I'm reminded of a term that you mentioned. You're talking about like being in the middle between the Marine Corps and like the Gray Navy. And so when you reference the Gray Navy just for anyone listening, again, I hope this academy that always just continues to be like knowledge about colloquial, colloquial, colloquially I can't even say the word but like terminology, right, yep, the gray Navy. So we always joke or not joke. It's the color of the ship, like the ships are painted haze gray, and so you hear the term haze gray and underway, for for ships, when they're, when they're out to sea, haze gray and underway. It's the same for surface ships, it's the same for submarines. There it's that haze gray color. So, again, when we mentioned the gray navy, we're talking about, like, the surface fleet, we're talking about the submarines, we're talking about actual, like naval vessels on the navy side.
Speaker 2:So I just I just wanted to throw that in like, like yeah, even like aviation, right, like it's basically it's kind of slang and honestly, I don't know how much of the, the cec or the cb say that. I mean, I've heard it enough and I've said it enough myself. But around the folks and it's basically us just saying like, hey, we support you, the gray Navy Now we also support, you know, spec war and the Marine Corps and all that, but really our, our goal is to help you do whatever you need and that's like the gray Navy, that's the line communities from, from the officer standpoint, and we are here for you. And so, yeah, we're kind of we're the oddball, right, we're just, we're a unique set and I think we take pride in that, though, because it is, we're kind of a hybrid. You hear the dirt? Maybe that's the dirt. Oh, the Seabees are the dirt maybe, right?
Speaker 1:So it kind of goes two ways, 100%. Well, we'll get ready to wrap this up, but one last question for you, and again this is something I bring up on kind of every episode. Again, you mentioned that you faced some adversity at the time of the Naval Academy. You faced some health complications that shifted your entire Navy experience. Based on everything that you've experienced, everything that learned, everything that you've felt, how do you feel about your Naval experience? And why should a young man or woman who potentially is watching this, who's in high school, why should they consider a service academy education? Man or woman who potentially is watching this, who's in high school? Why?
Speaker 2:should they consider a service academy education. This is something bigger than yourself, right? And you hear that. You hear that a lot and adversity is actually okay. You know it means you're, it means you're trying to do something that's challenging and you could even do everything right and unexpected adversity could hit you. And actually it's similar to like when I said a badge of honor for the formula team, because that's my story is that things did not go well and I didn't quit, like if we have the time, I'll kind of talk about like it's like the man in the arena right From reef points. Right, you're trying, and there's critics and they're like looking at you like they don't mean anything, right, because they're not doing it, they're not trying to do it. And if you keep it safe and in your, in your, you know, in your bubble and it's protected, you're missing out on life, man, whether it's uniform or not. And so I tell any young person like be humble, be confident and go, go on. I don't almost find adversity like see, see, go on. Almost find adversity Like see what your limits are and guess what that limit's not going to be permanent. Find the limit, figure out how to fix it and build and build and build and like yeah, I mean, that was me from day one.
Speaker 2:Just a quick story. Day one I got forgotten in alumni hall. I'm not kidding Going through, I don't know when they dropped me off. 05 30 06. I was one of those early waves get your little bag of reef points, get your haircut. Well, I had a tattoo that need to be reviewed. Nothing, nothing offensive religious tattoo. It ended up getting approved, but they didn't. No one told me right. I was in alumni hall all day. I got a box lunch in there and I don't know anything about this.
Speaker 2:I'm just like, just just sitting there but I'm like I'm telling myself oh, this is it, this is the grind they're trying to fake, trying to psych you out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not psyching me out.
Speaker 2:Now I'm winning and I'll read I'm no kidding, I'm reading man in the arena, cause I am the man and the only man in the. And this female lieutenant doc comes up and says I'm a shipment brunette. I'm sorry, but they're waiting for you. We approved your tattoo and we forgot to let you know. My bad, my bad.
Speaker 1:Let's go.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking who's day? What's the oath of office? Everyone's waiting. So they rushed me in. They rushed me through. There's a bus waiting for me. They rushed me to the mid store. Detailers are freaking out. Run up the steps, right Go Everyone. My whole company's formed up on the on the bulkhead, right In the P wave, trying to use some Navy terms here. Throw my bags in my room Right. When I throw my bags and we march down, we do our oath of office. So I never even unpacked, didn't know what I was, and I'm thinking like, oh man, what did I get into?
Speaker 2:So adversity might hit you day one. Guess what? Dust off, you know, get back up, dust off. Try to look at the positive side of it. You might not see it at first, but it's there, I promise you. And you keep going. And when you get hit again, you keep going and what you realize is like if you go in the gym and you lift, what do you get on your hands? You get some calluses right. You're building up a resiliency. And it's the same with adversity in life. It is not a negative, it is if you let it, you know, cripple you and hold you back. But it's actually a benefit if you can battle through it. So for me, that's what I've tried to do and I would do it all over again, and I hope that at least the next wave can do it better than me. And if we do that, like I said, we're going in the right direction.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, love that man. Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate you using some Naval Academy terminology no-transcript your vulnerability, sharing kind of your experiences and your journey to to make it to this point, and really grateful for everything. So I appreciate you, brother, thanks for being a part of the academy insider podcast and you're the man, thank you no, no, grant.
Speaker 2:Thank you, man, you and your team. You're awesome. Just to be a part of this, I'm more than honored and I would do this again in a heartbeat with you. So if we got more to talk about, let's set it up again Thermodynamics.
Speaker 1:Stand by for a thermodynamics conversation.
Speaker 2:We'll teach the Academy.
Speaker 1:Insider a little, a little thermo yeah.
Speaker 2:We'll talk thermo and I'll talk about some, maybe some more details, about more of that mid shipment timeframe. I think there's a lot there that I could unravel. For some folks that I think like you're, it's basically you're okay, we got you, let's do it, and you're not alone. And if, if they can take it from me and at least make them feel a little bit better, that's a win. So let's do it, dude. Thanks again, brother, I appreciate it. I was honored and thanks, guys, Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Academy Insider podcast. I really hope you liked it, enjoyed it and learned something during this time. If you did, please feel free to like and subscribe or leave a comment about the episode. We really appreciate to hear your feedback about everything and continue to make Academy Insider an amazing service that guides, serves and supports midshipmen, future midshipmen and their families. Thank you.
