#118 The "Golden" Handshake: A Deep Dive Into the Graduate Non-Commission Experience

When midshipmen reach graduation day but cannot commission due to medical reasons, they face what's called the "golden handshake" - but it's not as golden as the name may indicate. In this powerful episode, we explore the reality of Graduate Non-Commission (GNC) midshipmen and the support they desperately need.

My friend Christian Blanchard shares his deeply personal story of finding out just two weeks before graduation that he wouldn't commission as a Marine Corps officer due to a seizure and epilepsy diagnosis. His journey from devastation to recovery reveals the gaps in support for these midshipmen who fall through the cracks.

Understanding the GNC Experience

We examine what happens when your entire identity is wrapped up in becoming a military officer, only to have that dream shattered at the last moment. Christian's story illuminates the emotional and psychological impact of losing your planned career path

Academy Insider Pathways Program Launch

This episode also announces our new initiative to support GNC midshipmen through their transition. We've assembled an incredible network of Naval Academy graduates offering:

• Community connections through Cedric Williams' Blue Magnet platform
• Professional resume building with Andrew Shea's Operation MOS program
• Complimentary headshots from photographer Laura Hatcher
• Career and life coaching from executive coach Jeff Cervello
• Pro bono VA disability representation from attorney Chris and Homefront Group

A Call to Our Community

This isn't just about one midshipman's story - it's about the handful of graduates every year who need our support. If you know someone facing this situation, connect them with Academy Insider so we can help them land more softly in their next chapter.

The Vermeer Group is a residential real company matching military families with trusted real estate teams across the country.  If you have any real estate questions at all, please text Grant at (650) 282-1964 or email grant@thevermeergroup.com

To stay most up to date with Grant, Naval Academy updates, and real estate insights, follow him on LinkedIn

The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.

Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.

He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that matches service academy families with trusted real estate teams all across the country. Text (650) 282-1964 with any real estate questions.

We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.

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If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: email podcast@academyinsider.com or text Grant at (443) 951-3064

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stakes And A New Program
• 2:03 Meet Christian: Dream, Drive, And Mentors
• 8:30 Falling For The Marine Corps
• 15:45 Service Selection And Choosing Ground
• 22:30 The Seizure And A Sudden Stop
• 27:49 Walter Reed, Diagnosis, And Devastation
• 32:09 Graduation Day Without Commission
• 37:49 The “Golden Handshake” Myth
• 41:59 Admin Maze: Disability, VA, Next Steps
• 48:59 Therapy, Identity, And Perspective
• 55:49 Why GNCs Fall Through The Cracks
• 1:01:49 Launching The Pathways Support
• 1:05:29 Blue Magnet: Building Community
• 1:13:34 Operation MOS: Resume Translation
• 1:25:09 Headshots With Purpose: Laura’s Offer
• 1:33:29 Coaching For Identity And Direction
• 1:43:19 VA Claims Clarity And Legal Help
• 1:51:59 Closing Thanks And Call To Action

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 0:00

Everyone and welcome back to the Academy Insider Podcast. Today's episode is gonna be a really heavy one. Every year, there are a handful of midshipmen that make it to graduation today, but instead of being able to commission, they receive what we have deemed as the Naval Academy or dubbed as quote unquote the golden handshake. But as you're gonna hear in this episode, I don't know that it's also golden. And uh we're gonna talk a lot in this episode about this idea of what is known as the GNC or the graduate non-commissioned midshipman. For someone, for one medical reason or another, that kind of springs up into their first year or even later, they're unable to commission. And that kind of leaves them stranded, unsure what to do. Their whole world has been flipped upside down. And so this episode is gonna tell the story of my good friend Christian Blanchard, who basically, as you'll hear later in this episode, finds out about two weeks before graduation that he's not gonna commission and become a Marine Corps officer. As a result of this, and what I've seen from time to time, I wanted to make a personal initiative to help those midshipmen out as well. And so, as you're gonna hear later in the episode, I've got together a big group of Naval Academy graduates who are volunteered their time, efforts, and resources to support these midshipmen and help them land a little more softly in their next pathway in life. So I'm really excited to announce the Academy Insider Pathways program. Again, all that I can ask is if you know someone who's gonna fall into that category of being a graduate non-commissioned midshipman, please tell them about Academy Insider and let them know so we can get them the resources that they need to try and help make the transition as smooth as possible. It's not gonna be an easy one, it's not gonna be a fun one, but I'm excited to tell you guys a story and show you what we're building to help you know this group of midshipmen who sometimes get fall through the cracks a little bit. Anyway, I'm excited about it. Thank you so much. I hope you enjoy the listen. Let me know what you think, and I hope you have a great day. Christian, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. As always, as everyone already always knows, and the true OG Academy Insider fans will know who you are because of your involvement with the program and just being one of my very closest friends. But if you don't mind, for anyone who may be listening for the first time, just introducing yourself, talking a little bit about what led you to the Naval Academy and talking about how badly you wanted to be at the Naval Academy. Again, it was one of those funniest things for me. My always first recollections of you during Cleep Summer was how much you loved being there, just being stoked about it. And so I want to turn it over to you and give you the floor for an introduction.

SPEAKER_06: 2:40

Yeah, for sure. So I'm Christian Blanchard, I'm class of 17. Grant and I were in the same company in 26. There are 36 companies now, I think still, but 26 we lived on 8-0. So first to Liberty Last to class was our uh was our motto, and uh we definitely took advantage of uh Liberty plenty of times together. But I I guess just an academy bio real quick. I was an aerospace engineering major. I spent my summers training like everybody else, but getting more gear towarded the Marine Corps by second class first year at the Leatherneck, and I selected Marine Corps air at first and then switched to ground pretty quickly. And we can get into more detail about all that. And the direction that we're going with this one, they titled it in our outline as the not-so-golden handshake. I didn't wasn't able to commission due to a medical issue right beforehand. And I think talking about the beginning is really valuable because I I think I realized as plebear went along that not everybody had wanted the Naval Academy in in the way that I did and like planned on it for so long. So my dad was in the Navy. He enlisted out of a really small town in Louisiana in 1987. He was a navigation electronics technician on a boomer submarine. He did eight patrols total, which is quite a few. A single boomer patrol is 90 days nominally. And eight of those means he's got a gold star and three silver stars on his boomer pin on his uniform. So that's a that's a solid background, a lot of time underwater in the Navy. And then later he commissioned as an officer and did another 15 years, I think, surface warfare. 27 years total. He retired whenever I was at the Academy. I don't think there was ever a sense explicitly of like following in his footsteps. There was no Naval Academy connection. For me, it my ambition for the academy started when I was 12 years old, actually. I really got motivated to get into aviation, ultimately to become an astronaut. I was very serious about it and did a lot of research and read a lot of books, and that was flat out very single-mindedly what I want to do, what I wanted to do. And I think single-mindedness is gonna come up a lot in this conversation because I think not that this necessarily has to be a whole moral of the story kind of conversation, but I think that single-mindedness set me up for just a certain level of lessons learned as time's gone on during the academy and after. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 5:05

And I'm gonna cut you off because you mentioned, again, one of the things that I'm interested, like especially to hear about is you mentioned like this realization with perspective of like it wasn't necessarily everyone's dream to be there necessarily in the same way that it was yours, and that like you had that feeling. What was that experience like when you were actually at the academy? And who did you find as mentors? And how was your experience in Annapolis when you were a plebe youngster? Like, were you loving it in the way that you thought you would love it?

SPEAKER_06: 5:35

Yeah, in in almost every way. Yeah. I mean, it was when we use the term, man, like dream, dedicated, single-minded, absolutely just enthralled to be able to be there. I went to summer camps during high school. I did the STEM camp and summer seminar. I knew everything about that school. And on induction day, there was a weird, there was just a funny connection. My dad worked in Montgomery, uh, Montgomery, Alabama at the time, and he had a connection with Amanda Moxdad. Amanda was in our company as well. And they didn't know that each of their kids was going to the Naval Academy until induction day. And we ran into each other at uh Dry Dock. And Amanda and I realized we were gonna be in the same company, and I went up to her. I was like, Yeah, are you like really psyched to be in 26th company? This is our logo, and like we're the Rough Riders, and Teddy Roosevelt's a big thing. And she was like, What are you talking about? It was that is absolutely telling about the way that I showed up at that place. I mean, I knew so much about the history. The astronaut connection, you know, was you know, early in the 20th century, mid-20th century, a lot of astronauts were naval aviators. It made a lot of sense based on the nature of their careers and their skill set. A lot of them went to the Naval Academy. By the time that I was looking at going more, the Naval Academy had had graduated more astronauts than anybody else. And I just knew everything historically about it and was really just, I don't know, in a really like emotional, philosophical, very cheesy kind of way, just every single day. Like, how heckin' cool is it that I get to go to this school? And I think, I don't think that ever fully left me, but I think it was moderated and just like infused with a little more real life experience as time went on. So there were, you know, silly experiences like that. But over the course of plebe year, I mean, I was really at the beginning dedicated to chow calls and the whole plebe experience. I was doing my very best, and that was my dad's you know departing advice to me heading out was you don't have to be the best, you just have to do your best, and that's what you can control.

SPEAKER_07: 7:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 7:37

And so that motivated everything I did, certainly for plebe year, but I think it just became more grounded as time went on. I loosened up a little bit. I prioritized, I prioritized friendships and I prioritized just externalizing a bit more and realizing the folks that I had around me and the power that each of us had to lift each other up, and specifically in our company, bond with each other. So I still felt this power of walking down stribbling and you know, realizing and feeling that guys like Jim Lovell and and so many others had like walked those same bricks. That was just a powerful the historicity of that place is very powerful. And I don't want to forget, you know, based on where I work now at Los Alamos, that historicity actually is very important to me. And and being in a place that has impacted so many lives and and so many amazing, motivated people who have impacted the world have passed through is a powerful thing to me. Speaking of Jim Level, I I met him. That's a funny story. Just from plead year, we have uh drags. Drags were high school students that would stay with us for the weekend, and I volunteered for that a bunch of times and gave them tours because I knew everything about this place, all the monuments, and uh my enthusiasm really came through. We walked out to the cemetery because that's the kind of thing that I did back then, you know, because I was like, here's all these people that are buried here. And we saw Jim Level and Marilyn Level scoping out their headstones, which is one of the more morbid things that I think a human can do. But at the academy, they're amazing, and like the Apollo 13, the CSM, is like engraved into this marble. It's great. And we like shook his hand and he was super nice. He's asking for directions because there were new buildings, obviously, that whenever he went in here in 1950, whatever. So I think that kind of gets across how much I loved that place, maybe more than other folks.

SPEAKER_04: 9:33

Yeah, and I mean that kind of you know, you was funny as you were talking about like you don't have to be the best, you just do your best. But you were objectively the best as it like, especially as a plebe. Like when it came to being a plebe, Christian Blanchard was the best plebe who's ever plebed in in United States Naval Academy history, dude. Which is hilarious announcement. But again, you carried with you very clearly this Marine Corps spirit, like in your soul, like who you were and the way that you behave, acted, projected yourself, and everything. Was being a Marine part of your plan? Like, was that when you came in thinking like you wanted to be a Marine, or you came in just like, oh hey, Naval Academy, I'm open to anything, but you know, I'm just excited to be here.

SPEAKER_06: 10:14

It was a straight line for me. I knew how to apply for the astronaut corps to go through NASA and everything. So it was Naval Academy, Naval Aviation, get into the fighter pilot program, fly jets, and do test pilot and and go be an astronaut, apply to the program.

SPEAKER_05: 10:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 10:28

During plebe summer, the Marine Corps Silent Drill Platoon performed for us. And that was the first time I think a lot of us at school got the got the shivers for the Marine Corps. And as plebe year went on, the best mentors that I had were all Marines. And when I say best, what I really mean is is I guess they just aligned with my mindset and motivated with motivated me in ways that I didn't expect were gonna just click for me. Um mostly I think that means I think my mindset just as a human really aligns with clearly laid out uh doctrine in a sense. I the Marine Corps is very doctrinal about its leadership, and that just made a lot of sense to me. I was an engineer, I was doing aerospace engineering, and there's almost a mathematical nature to the way that the Marine Corps lays things out, and there are pros and cons to that, but it made a lot of sense to me, and simply the idea that there are seven Marine Corps leadership principles and 12 Marine Corps leadership traits, I could run with that, you know. By the end of plead year, I was pretty sad on it. And the Marine Corps, the opportunities for really profound tactical leadership and the expectation of that kind of leadership really it just clicked for me. Yeah. And I was pretty sad on it at that point.

SPEAKER_04: 11:46

And and we had, again, I I always remember back, we had Captain Green in, you know, within our battalion as an as an incredible mentor in our space. Him and who other like who else? Like what kind of took that initial spark that started kind of with the silent drill drill platoon, Ace and I come into Annapolis and kind of developing over time. Again, you found the doctrinal aspects of the Marine Corps really interesting. But what other personal influences or mentors like really shaped that and led to the path that again eventually led you to like service selecting Marine Corps?

SPEAKER_06: 12:23

Sure. The first one that came to mind, I don't do you remember Steph Sergeant Barbida? He got gunning.

SPEAKER_04: 12:27

Yeah, I remember Staff Sergeant Barbida, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06: 12:29

Yes. So this kind of speaks to the way that when you talk about like being an effective pleat, this was just the way that I was. I'm sure on the podcast you've talked about professional knowledge and uh and the training environment during the academic year for plebes. And one of the assignments that we got, which is one of my favorite assignments that we ever got during plebe year, was to our upper class instructed us to go sit down and interview or have a conversation with senior enlisted on the yard. We could pick whoever we wanted to, and we were supposed to report back. Sure. And uh the senior enlisted on the yard are kind of split between chief senior chiefs and the Marine Corps structures, their their enlisted leadership a bit differently. So staff sergeants and gunnery sergeants for the most part on the Marine Corps side of things. And I heard of this guy, Staff Sergeant Barbita, who's about as infantry marine corps as it got all the tattoos and the absolute V cut, big shoulders and on the yard. Most of the that's important too. Most of the Marines had drill instructor experience in boot camp and they carried that atmosphere with them too. And I just didn't second guess that that might be out of the ordinary kind of thing to do. But I chopped on up. He was on the he was on second reg side, but in like fourth wing or something. The reason it's important, he was on fourth deck, and we had the most, he had the most amazing view to the backside of Memorial Hall. And again, just one of those experiences that clicked with me. This guy just spoke to my soul in a way because it was very idealistic and leadership focused. And when I say idealistic, there was something about it that was also very grounded because he brought in his experience. And the biggest thing that was extremely memorable to me was he articulated, and I'm not going to be able to get it across exactly the way that he did, but he articulated that same idea of the historicity of that place and how profound it was to him to sit in a chair and look out on Memorial Hall in this place where the names of men and women who had fought and died, you know, that had come through our place, our school, who had stood out there, that was what he said, who had stood on that balcony on the back of Memorial Hall and looked out toward the Chesapeake. And the kinds of decisions and the kinds of seeds that were planted for the future of our country and for the future of the world. That's a huge idea. And that is that's one of the reasons that I went, is because I wanted to go to an important place and to do something important. And to do something important. That was powerful. You know, later on, Captain DJ Green was huge. And Sergeant Abbott as well. Beth Abbott was she played a pretty pivotal role on graduation day for me. That actually just changed my mindset at a pretty dark moment. So it was when I listed out uh mentors, Marines came up a lot. Chief Castanon also, she was there for me as I was going through the administration and everything, and a very powerful leader that I worked very closely with in company leadership during the first year.

SPEAKER_04: 15:29

Yeah. And speaking of first year, and again, you kind of led to a precursor of this of kind of things changing, but how did it how did it feel when you recollect on you know the experience in the moment of being there in the first semester of first year on the day of service assignment and finding out that you were going to be a Marine and getting your head shaped and putting on you know the t-shirt and all that different stuff? Like, how was that experience now that you had a full three and a half years of development and shaping and conversations and influence that led up to that moment?

SPEAKER_06: 17:25

It is a real moment of reflection and looking, it's such a moment of the future, but I think for for me, it was a moment of reflection of the past several years. And for me, back to when I was 14, I had this whole I had a very clear trajectory, and the Marine Corps changed that for me. I was motivated to lead people and be led by people and to be motivated and to do something important. And going to space just literally became something that was not it it paled in comparison to the opportunities I had in the Marine Corps. The day was just something incredibly special. I I think it is for everybody. The way that our selection happened was was pretty fun. Our chief Castanon had set balloons up in our wardroom and revealed to us, like in this fun moment after we had all gathered there, every company does this differently, but that she had put little scrolls, pieces of paper in all the balloons. And so each of us got called up in alphabetical, popped our balloon, and and got to read out. I got marine air at the time, and then we go back for Thanksgiving right after that. And I was already leaning in the direction of switching to ground. And I made that decision whenever I came back. I got that advice very especially from Captain Green, who's an infantry marine, and he he I I kind of consulted with him, I consulted with Gunny Abbott at the time. I said, I'm really leaning in the direction of Brown, what do you think? And he was never gonna pressure me into a given position, but he said Blanche, I've always seen you since I've met you as the kind of Marine that would that would ruck at the front of the line and see a Marine struggling and put the barrel of a 240 on your back and and ruck ahead and lead a line of Marines. I think that's where you belong. And I reflected on that, and that's a powerful image that I've had. I'm a small guy, I'm 5'7, and you know, nominally 160. So there was some intimidation about that, but you know, there's just there's definitely I think a predominance in the Marine Corps, at least whenever we at least whenever I was looking into going it. But as long as you did your job, it just didn't matter what size you were, it didn't matter who you were. If you could if you could fight, if you could rock, if you could lift, if you could do your job and lead folks, it didn't matter. And that was something that was powerful to me going into it. So I went ground because the leadership opportunities, that tactical opportunity is just inherently more ingrained into the experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 20:07

And from that point forward, you move through the rest of the semester, the rest of the second semester, ready to commission and be a Marine Corps ground officer. And then that all changed on one day. And I kind of want to just turn it over to you to kind of tell your story of what happened.

SPEAKER_06: 20:29

Yeah, yeah. So for engineering students, a typical experience for your second semester, and in my case, for the entire both semesters of first Ear is an engineering capstone project. And I and my friends in the company, several friends in the company, took on a pretty time-consuming one to build a race car, a formula-style race car with Navy racing. It was a demanding project. It ended up being really fulfilling by the end of it because we built a car from scratch that went really fast and it was designed to compete in competition. The reason that impacts this story is because it was so time consuming that I was very sleep deprived over the course of the first year, like most engineering students. And as time went on, I I think you know it's easy to chalk it up at the time to simple exhaustion. And whether it's true. Or not, there's an anecdote that I heard that there was a very experienced electrician that spent 30 years doing a really great job. And then one day an apprentice pointed out the difference between a green and a blue wire, and he was like, What are you talking about? These are the same color. It turns out he's colorblind, but he did this job that's pretty color dependent for 30 years. In my experience, I just assumed that everybody who was sleep deprived or maybe a little bit hungover would just kind of twitch a little bit in the morning whenever they woke up. And that was becoming more and more common in the mornings on as second semester went on. Yeah in May of first year. And it was still demanding in so many ways. We like had to miss intercessionals, and this was going way past whenever everybody else was done with other academics. So we're like two weeks into May, it was May 12th. And I finished like my final academic obligation. We present our I presented my report on the aerodynamics of the car, and we go back, and there's just a little bit of tweaking I had to do with the car, and I twitched a little bit, and then I woke up in an ambulance. And one of our close friends, mutual friends, David Espy, was in our company. He was on the team with me and he told me as I was kind of coming to, Christian had just had a seizure. We're taking you to the hospital. And you know, it was it was really foggy in the immediate aftermath. But my first thought actually was sweet. I was scheduled to go to TBS on like the middle of June. It was less than a month, and I was like overweight and not ready to start. So I was like, sweet, this will probably delay things. There's gonna be some paperwork, and I'll do TBS at like later in the summer. And over the next few hours, it was pretty clear that it was gonna be more serious than that. So May 12th, meaning that was two weeks before graduation and commissioning. Me and David and our buddy CJ, we drove back overnight to go to uh to go back to Annapolis. And there's just some machinery that starts rolling at that point administratively. And I ended up going straight to Walter Reed. They had me admitted for a few days and ran all the tests, hooked up to wires and had an MRI and everything. And an army major, an epileptologist, came in my room on May 18th, which was a week before graduation. And there was, I remember him because he had there was a lot of gravity. Like this guy really appreciated what he was about to tell me. And he told me that I would not be commissionable because it was a very clear diagnosis of juvenile myclonic epilepsy, which is not a very serious kind of epilepsy, but epilepsy is epilepsy, and that they can't give a rifle to a grunt that might drop out any second. And I was kind of prepared for that, at least to ask this one question, which was understood. Is there any way that I could go restricted lying? Because I just wanted to, I wanted to go serve. And I would have loved to be a supply officer or something on a ship, or even just something, just wanted to wear, even something as simple as wearing the uniform is very important to me. And he told me, I think that that would end up being a very long fight that you ended up losing. And I said, All right. And I decided right then that I wasn't going to do that. I just wanted to move on with my life. I called my dad and told him, and everything was pretty foggy for two reasons. It was a profound disappointment and then a completely unique experience that basically doesn't happen to anybody else. You know, plenty of folks graduate and then don't commission because of medical issues. They usually find out months in advance and they can start lining up job opportunities or they can start getting some advice and some guidance and some support. And my timeline was so short that that became very complicated and much more onerous in my case. The other reason that it was that I was pretty foggy is because as soon as I got on the ambulance, they hooked me up to an IV for an anti-convulsive medication. And that medication was known for causing some emotional side effects. And that was also mixed in like for the next few months because I was trying to like sort out this neurological medication that was also causing my decision making to be a little confusing. And I just wasn't with it as much as I as much as I knew that I was. That was hard to distinguish between being devastated that my dream didn't work out. And we sorted that out later that year. But you know, they were tough days. After that week, all my family, I mean, like we had was still, just like most families, reserved a house for commissioning week two years before. My family, extended family, had bought flights and were driving up. And my parents did, you know, they took it on themselves to like notify everybody. And they did everything that they could over the course of commissioning week to alleviate any kind of responsibilities with the family. Uh but you know, even still, it was a it was a tough week. Yeah. And it ended up hitting me on the Wednesday before. And that's when I finally kind of I, you know, I broke down with my family, and and that was the first time we were just like honest with our feelings and started working through it. But yeah, yeah, I was I couldn't have been more devastated.

SPEAKER_04: 26:38

Yeah. And and and how did that translate to the day of actual graduation? Right. I know you you kind of mentioned that there was potentially a conversation with Gunny Abbott right around that time. Uh that's that's difficult. You're surrounded by 1047 other people who that is the best day of their life, right? Like they are ecstatic to be at that point, and you're just having to fight that internal battle, knowing that this day doesn't mean the same thing to you. Like, how was that experience and how did you go through that?

SPEAKER_06: 27:16

So woke up the next morning with my buddy, or woke up on the morning of graduation at like six. We've got to record very early and sit with chairs. And there is an immense amount of tradition and propaganda, granted, built into the whole Marine Corps uniform.

unknown: 27:36

Sure.

SPEAKER_06: 27:36

Everything from the shoes to the cover. There's some kind of symbolism. And I was very motivated to wear my Marine Corps uniform on graduation day. And I think I asked at some point if I still could, and somebody told me no. And I wasn't really in the mindset to challenge much, I guess. I was pretty resigned, like, yeah, well, I'm not a Marine, so I guess like I should wear this uniform. So just from the start of the day, having to put on midshipman Navy dress whites was just a horrible start to the day. And that also meant that everybody, as we were gathering up together, all my friends that weren't in the company and wouldn't have known, you know, specifically that this was going on, they were all confused because I wasn't wearing Marine Corps. I wasn't wearing my uh my blue dress. So it was just an exercise all morning in notifying people and like explaining to them over again that this wasn't happening. And some people offering condolences, some of which were very not heartfelt, and some of which were so heartfelt that it was it brought me to tears several times. And I literally cried on your shoulder, if you remember. Whenever Emily from 27, she said something to the effect of nobody deserved this more. And I'm really sorry that this happened. A really memorable moment was when Tom Giornelli came over. He was in our company, another Marine, and he kind of tapped my shoulder and he was like, Hey, Captain Baldwin was our company officer at the time. Captain Baldwin wants all the Marines to take a picture together. And I was like, All right. That was powerful and important, and I have that picture. I'm the only one, obviously, in a Navy uniform. But I stood up there straight back and I took that picture, you know. We march on the field and we take our chairs, and we're in 26th company and goes alphabetically by company. So it's a pretty long graduation ceremony, three or four hours, I think. There are speeches. Vice President Pence at the time gave a speech, but I'm sure you remember how awesome the acting Seknap speech was. He was a Naval Academy grad, which is not at all a prerequisite to be secretary of the Navy. And it was a fantastic speech, I for everybody, including me, something light and funny. He talked about his favorite bars in town and everything. It was just really an excellent, like to the point speech. Yeah. You know, standing up and walking up was all of it just in at the time was horrible. Yeah. And I had not had time to process and get any kind of perspective. So we walk up, and I just remember being very, I guess I was making a real effort to be stoic put together. Certainly when I was up on stage, so I shake the vice president's hand, and then I went left, and that's where the acting Seknav was. And he kind of grabbed my hand. I was not smiling, obviously. So grabbed my hand, kind of pulled me close, and he was like, Let's put a smile on that face for your family answers. And I was like, Okay. And I walked off stage and I knew where my family was sitting, and I I kind of raised my hand up like that and waved to them, and mom got a good picture of that. I walked back and I just expected them to have like removed my commission, you know, because our folder has our degree on one side and our commission on the other side. And of course they didn't. Like there's a thousand of those, and it was still there. And go back to my seat. I think there was like some hugging and stuff. Captain Green came over and and you know, he was there for me too. Because that whole week leading up, I mean, like I got with Captain Green, I got with Gunny Abit. She was like not holding back tears. She absolutely was like crying for me whenever we sat down and she'd heard what happened.

SPEAKER_07: 31:26

Yep.

SPEAKER_06: 31:27

We take the oath of office. I I don't know though, I don't remember the order of the ceremony, but you know, I could have stood up with the Marines. Nobody was gonna stop me from doing that, but again, it just had no perspective. I was like, I'm gonna sit here because I I'm not getting this. Like, this didn't I'm not a Marine. The pivotal moment of the day for me was with Gunny Abbott. Um, because we threw our our covers, the ceremony's over, and that's one of the another like big moment that had lost meaning to me. I don't know whether she beelined for me specifically or we just ran into each other, but she was just absolutely like over the moon for me that I had graduated, and she knew everything. Like I said, we had met earlier in the week, and she like grabbed me, shook my hand, it's like congratulations, sir. She was adamant to call me, sir. She said, You'll always be an officer to me. And uh, I was like still stunned, and I was like, Yeah, they they didn't take the commission out, like it's still in here. And she told me to open it. She's like, No way, and I opened it and and she showed me, she said, That is effing awesome. And I said, Yeah, it is. And so I was in a mindset to throw my commission away once I saw that it was that it was still in the folder the first time. And when she told me that, I was like, Yeah, I did earn this still. And that was a powerful moment, very important moment, and I think was one of the many forks in the road over the next few months that edged me in the right direction. Sure. And very important that it happened that day.

SPEAKER_04: 33:01

100%. Thank you for sharing that. Again, I was just a quick pause and caveat just to just to call out Gunny Abbott. Again, there are a lot of people when you reflect back on your Naval Academy experience. And I think Gunny Abbott is one of the people who made a lot of very individual impacts in the lives of many people, right? It was not an aggregate thing. It was that she was a person who invested in the one-on-one relationships and personal development of the young men and women at the Naval Academy.

SPEAKER_06: 33:30

And you know, to have it was natural and effortless and motivating, and she was absolutely a net positive in my life in every way. And and it in it, you know, our lives come down to you know, moments sometimes. And that moment when she told me that my commission was awesome, that it's awesome, that it stayed in there, and everything that implied, I still have it. You know, I didn't throw it away.

unknown: 33:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 33:53

So one of the again, I kind of just, you know, use this opportunity now to make to this the minute and a half, maybe of just like educational time about the Naval Academy and terminology for all the parents who may be listening, right? Which is, you know, this this story tells, and again, like Christian said, sometimes we will find find out a couple months in advance. Sometimes, in the case of Christian, it was a two-week period. Those those folks are known again as we've got use the acronym GMC, a graduate non-commissioned, somebody who's going to graduate from the academy, but like Christian said, is not going to then become an ensign or second lieutenant. Right. And you know, there's there's one thing, and it and it's really interesting because I had heard the term a million times, which is this idea of the quote unquote, the golden handshake. Like somehow that this was a beautiful thing that like you get to get a naval academy degree, and now you don't have to be in the Navy or the Marine Corps. Like, this is the best of all worlds. Like, how could you get so lucky to have this amazing thing where you get the Naval Academy, prestige, the Naval Academy, diploma, the Naval Academy, everything, and you don't have you don't have to do your five years.

SPEAKER_06: 35:07

Yeah, your five-year sentence.

SPEAKER_04: 35:11

My my world, and again, if you would have asked me as a as a plebe or youngster, I would have been like, yeah, dude, like in the golden age.

SPEAKER_06: 35:19

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_04: 35:20

Right. But I it just like, you know, I I really am like on this push now to to call it the not-so golden handshake because this is not a golden situation. It's it's quite literally the antithesis of it. And uh, you know, I just I don't know that there's like a turnover to hear of like unless you want to talk about like this term and how it makes me feel. But again, I just wanted to like yeah put that out there for the Naval Academy families. You may hear these terms, you may hear GNC, you may hear golden handshake. But if I have any input or influence, like it, I really want to make sure people know that this is not such a golden thing.

SPEAKER_06: 35:58

Exactly. I think uh what I wrote in my notes as I was kind of prepping is that I certainly felt worse about it back then than I do now. Sure. You know, I think we'll get to reflections at the end, but I think, you know, my single-mindedness was inspirational. There was another Marine Corps captain while we there while we were at school, Captain Kay, and we were doing some kind of screener, and it was like 4:30 in the morning, and you know, there was like the motivating pep talk to start the day from an infantry marine. He said, I feel so blessed every day that God put me on this earth to do one thing, and that's lead Marines. And I was like, Yeah, me too. And I, as like motivational and hallmarky as that sounds, I don't think that was very healthy. And I I I want to flesh that out maybe a little more at the end, but that's why I felt much worse about it back then is because there was nothing good about it. It was purely something devastating. There was no silver lining. I did not live my dream. Exactly. And the way my mindset was back then, to a significant degree, somehow invalidated my entire Naval Academy experience. I didn't want to think about it, I didn't want to go back, I wanted to leave it behind. And that was such a difficult identity experience for me because I had put all of my, I had put all of my identity into this one thing, into going to the Naval Academy, graduating, commissioning, and being a Marine for 40 years. And such a significant deviation from that was just something I was not remotely prepared for. And I couldn't see any anything positive, anything golden about this experience. In retrospect, I think, you know, with more experience or more perspective, there's some practical considerations. And I think if I had had some more perspective while I was at school, I could have jump started a more positive path in the early days. But and a lot of folks are going to have a different perspective at the academy. And I think it's okay, this is my point. It's okay if somebody experienced the Naval Academy differently from me. And by the end of it, maybe like they just see their selves, see themselves going in a different direction into business or into government or into something else that the Naval Academy can still set them up for. And if it turns out, oh, I can start that like what I've discovered my passion really is, if I can start that five years sooner, that's okay. You don't have to love the Naval Academy in the way that I did. And that's the perspective that's changed over time. It was worse for me back then, and now I realize that there are a lot of reasons folks go to the academies that if through no fault of their own, they don't commission. That can be something somewhat positive for them. And that has nothing, you know, that doesn't make my experience any different if their mindset and their life track is different. So that's a distinction I want to make. That's fair.

SPEAKER_04: 38:54

I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_06: 38:55

I appreciate that perspective.

SPEAKER_04: 38:56

We're gonna shift a little bit to like the administrative, right? Again, is provide a little bit of behind the scenes for anyone. Again, like you graduate. Again, well, how about this? I graduate, I go straight to basket leave, and I report to Penn School. I get like two weeks of basket leave and I go straight to Penn School for the Cryptologic Warfare Officer course, right? Like it's straight to the world. Your experience, it's a little bit different. And so I kind of want to talk a little bit about the process of the folks that kind of go through this GNC. Again, staying staying, you know, at the academy and dealing with the administrative processes, which include like again, medical retirement, VA claims, job search, all this different aspect. And so I'm just gonna turn it over to you to just talk a little bit about your experience on the administrative and logistical side immediately following graduation from the academy.

SPEAKER_06: 39:45

Sure. So there are some unique aspects to my situation, and I'll try and have a bigger picture or provide a bigger perspective than that. But I guess just for the sake of my own story, a couple of the important points were that I guess this applies to all GNCs. Like the Academy is really great at cranking out officers with undergraduate degrees typically in STEM fields and making really good officers. If you fall outside the guardrails of complete this at this point and receive a sufficient class ranking and graduate, like get a good enough GPA, blah, blah, blah. If you're outside those left and right lateral limits, you take an off-ramp through no fault of your own, the academy kind of has no idea what to do with you. And there are not administrative procedures and structures in place to directly support a case-by-case, you know, a case-by-case graduated, non-commissioned. It was all exacerbated because of my timeline. Everybody's leaving for the summer. They're senior enlisted, a third of them probably are going, you know, spreading to the four winds because their tours at the academy are up. So, like Chief Castanom was supporting me very, very well, but you know, you can only do so much for a single mid. And I was in a fog, so I was trying to seek out opportunities to like can I superintend and please can I have a job? Because I was supposed to have a job. And that literally didn't work out. That's one of the that's a tough one in you know, retrospect. I could have tried harder for that. And pushed harder to just get a paying role very similar to a TAD position during the summer. Even that didn't happen. So I couch surfed. I drove Ubers for the summer just around Annapolis, couch surf with our friends who were temporary on temporary duty at the Academy, waiting for their trainings. And then later ended up living with my family, move finally just moving back, which is what I should have done very early on. There are a few things I should have done very early on, and spending that summer, you know, it would have been good to have more direct family support because my parents are great. Over the course of that time, I was there was a lot of outprocessing for the academy. It was very strange that I was out processing as a midshipman at that point. Long checklist of, you know, turn in your cat card, go to this office, this office, this office. I I don't remember much of that. The most important aspect of the most important processing was related to disability. And that was actually a process that took about three years for me because again, everybody was leaving, and I didn't get a lot of very clear advice about the difference between being medically retired by the Department of Defense and receiving VA disability compensation. I was eligible for both with my condition, along with a few other things. I think, you know, I didn't take advantage of some resources, like local VA representatives. There were folks in Annapolis that could have walked me through every single thing. But I kind of didn't even know who to talk to. So if this turns into a bit of advice, I think it's important for anybody going through a similar situation to understand that the resources exist and the academy is only going to be able to support you so much. And it's only going to be capable of supporting you so much. So I wish I would have been capable of a shift in mindset from the academy is going to take care of everything. And I just like follow my emails, I go to this brief whenever I need to, and I'm get a commission and get my degree. It's just a reality that in an exceptional situation like this, you have to begin looking out for yourself and seeking out resources, not just from friends and family, but administratively. And it just took me a little while to get the wherewithal to take my life into my own hands and the way that it changed. The most important part about processing for me, the academy stuff was relatively automatic, just convoluted. I think disability processing has gotten a little more streamlined in the last eight years. But the difference between VA disability compensation, that rating, and uh being medically retired by the Department of Defense is very important, especially in the benefits that I receive. This is where my perspective has changed over time, and I've been able to embrace this idea that there is absolutely a silver lining in my circumstances, and there's a golden aspect to my discharge. The disability benefits and the way that the Navy has kind of sent me on my way once we sorted it all out, has been really beneficial for my family. And it's given us a lot of support for us to uh my family being my wife, my four-year-old daughter. You know, medical support, disability compensation has given us a lot of opportunity to take some risks, to start our lives in the way that we've wanted, and to help me, I think finally get on a track where I feel very confident about some long-term goals as an engineer here in New Mexico and just restart my life. It's taken me a little while. The you know, getting over the mental and emotional shock. I I can't emphasize enough the importance. Family and friends could only support me to some degree, right? I was so turned around and uh and foggy that I needed a doctor to help out. I needed a psychologist. I should have been going to trauma counseling very early on. And there was just nobody in my life to really kind of like push me in that direction. So I finally sought counseling out about two or three years ago, and that's when I finally started to get and you know onto a much better track. And we've talked a lot about that. But yeah, I can't overstate that enough. I think every human being can benefit from going to counseling and talking out their thoughts and talking out their feelings. Anyone who experiences something as as upending as as I have, anybody in a graduate non-commissioned circumstance or something similar should absolutely seek out counseling. And the Navy, as long as you're in, or even if you've got VA VA benefits, is gonna support that. That ongoing counseling, I'm still gonna I'm gonna go to counseling for the rest of my life, at least once a month. Sometimes it's tough. May is still a tough month for me because my life turned sideways. I might not even be in the Marine Corps, you know, at this point anyway. But it was still a tough time, and I still need some help, and I'm not ashamed to admit that. And I'm really grateful to have the opportunity to get it through work, through you know, medical benefits. I've got a lot of support from my wife and everything. So I ended up with a DD214 medical retirement, and uh Yeah, I've continued on.

SPEAKER_04: 46:26

Yeah, dude. It's uh so it's always kind of I don't know. I don't like the word weird, but like it's weird to to retalk about all this stuff that happened because again, I have a lot of conflicted opinions. Obviously, you know I'm like, I'm obviously like now pro-Naval Academy advocate number one, right? Like that's it's kind of the brand. That's kind of what I like, what I like doing. And I feel conflicted because like it's not it's not necessarily like the mission, I understand, like it doesn't make sense. But people don't know how to help the like individual midshipmen who's in this case that isn't following the pipeline, like who you mentioned, that is outside of the left and right lateral limits of what a normal experience looks like in Annapolis. But at the same time, it's difficult because I feel like there are five to ten midshipmen, maybe a couple more every year, that just get let them fall through the cracks. And the the transition to their next pathway in life, whatever it may be, is kind of left up to them to figure it out. And there's not a lot of clearly defined support. Again, I think our network in large, there are people out there who want to help that just hasn't been necessarily uh a structured format to it, nor do I think the navel of cat, like again, it's just it's one of these weird things that like again, I'm conflicted because like I hate to see things that very similar situations to you that continue to happen. Uh, you know, but that's kind of the why we're on this podcast and kind of the goal. And again, kind of means that there's never going to be a permanent solution, but if we can do something to just provide a little bit of support and resource for these midshipmen in this time period to help landstock land the next side, like that's the goal. And that's why, you know, I want to finish this episode off with just a little bit of reflection. And I know it's kind of been talked about through the course of the episode, but like when you look back on that time now, what did you need most? What was like, what was you know the things that you actually needed in your life? Because we mentioned again, there's nothing wrong with it, but like you just graduated from the Naval Academy, your friends are officers in the Navy and Marine Corps, you are driving Uber in Annapolis, right? As you're trying to figure out what like what is next in life, right? And like what how what did you need in that moment? Community support, like what were the things that like when you look back, you're like, man, I wish I would have had this. I wish like someone would have stepped in and like let me know about resource that would have kind of maybe expedited my process or changed the path just a little bit.

SPEAKER_06: 49:05

I I think I I think I simply needed counseling. I needed a psychologist, a doctor to help me work through this. I was not lacking in community, I wasn't lacking in friendships. If if the situation was reversed, I have no idea what I would have told any of my friends. Like nobody really, and I I mean, like, you were there for me, man. It wasn't I wasn't lacking in any kind of external support. I needed internal support that that therapy could have only provided. And I there just was no framework in my own in my own past and my family to kind of seek that out. And that's tricky. I mean, like anybody who most folks who desperately need that kind of help, one of the symptoms of needing help is that it's very difficult to reach out about it. So maybe just a single person, maybe a bit more of I think the Academy was doing a good job of the Midshipment Development Center, you know, when we were there of pushing out this resource. And I did attend a couple times. I was like, let me go feel out, you know, what this is like. Yeah. And uh the counseling sessions in the confines of MDC, I realized we're just not like, hey, I'm feeling kind of down. I sat across from a captain in the Navy in uniform, a psychiatrist who was like, Why are you even here? And that was my like kind of therapeutic experience to that point. And I, you know, I could have gotten lucky, maybe one person could have reached out and like said that. But ultimately, the culture of our society, the culture of the academy, of the military, I think continues, needs to continue to move in that direction of being very okay with uh providing therapeutic support to folks who need it. And I needed it, and I didn't seek it out until about three years ago, so like four or five years down the line, from having a completely upending experience. So, you know, it just to make very clear, to set out to be explicit with the advice, I guess it's just it's okay to need that kind of help, and it's okay that friends and family may be unable to solve that problem for you. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07: 51:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 51:27

No, I what I deeply needed more broadly in my life, and and what I'd like to leave off with, this is an advice, this piece of advice for every single midshipman, is I just needed more perspective in my life. Putting my entire identity into one thing was not a healthy way to uh conduct my naval academy experience. I definitely resented folks who were very dedicated to academics, who had like business ambition, who focused on that part of the mission, which was citizenship and government and other opportunities outside from the military. I was an old soul in the Marine Corps, very much of the suffering silence mindset. And let's, you know, do this one thing, be an infantry platoon commander for 40 years, all the way up through stars. You know, it's not about her simply hedging your bets for a completely unexpected circumstance like this. But it's just a healthy way, I think, to have your experience. What else am I passionate about? What else could I see myself doing if it turns out that I get into the Navy and three years down the line I don't really think it's interesting? Let's cultivate some more interests and hobbies and cultivate perspective that the military is not everything. The Academy sets us up for so many opportunities in life, whether that's engineering, business, anything. I'm an engineer now, and I was resentful of ever pursuing that as a career because it was a degree that I got from the Naval Academy, and that place hurt me, and it was just that simple until I got the help that I needed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 52:57

I love that. I I appreciate you saying that again. This is something that I've had conversations with plenty of midshipmen about. It's again, it's what made me again. What's funny is like how opposite ends of the spectrum we were, you know, early on in our experiences at the Naval Academy, which is where you may have been frustrated by you know people who kind of weren't fully bought into the whole experience. I was sitting on the other side, like, I don't think I belong here, right? Like, I don't, I don't know that I belong at this institution. Like, I don't have this like burning desire in the middle of my heart to be uh to be a naval officer. Like this isn't necessarily my dream, right? And I think kind of opposite ends of the spectrum led to this morphing of exactly what you just said. And it was a conversation that I had with Lieutenant Burke back in the day, our pleach summer company officer.

SPEAKER_06: 53:44

Yeah. And I forgot to mention him, right?

SPEAKER_04: 53:47

And you know what he had told me, and it's something that I just wholeheartedly believe in, is like, Grant, like being a military officer, it's it's not who you are. It's it's just what you do, right? And you know, you can separate, and honestly, like we get to this point now and having this discussion and talking to the individuals who still may be at the academy, is like, in my opinion, you should separate your identity from the uniform specifically, right? If you are able to say who I am is a man or woman for others, I'm a person of service and how I do that service, the what may be being a military officer for five years, it may be for 20 years, it may be for 30 years, but it's not who I am. Like again, if you put your identity in the uniform, you put your identity in like I am a Navy officer, I am a Marine Corps officer, and that's taken away from you, you are gonna be left stripped of purpose and identity in like in a in a really difficult spot. And I think there's a really healthy balance and transition to like, no, I am a man of service. I'm a person who's gonna make a positive impact in my community, I'm going to help other people. And the way I do that is by being a Marine Corps officer or being a Navy officer. Now your two things are aligned, right? And um I just think it's a it's a really interesting piece. And again, like it's really difficult for folks who are in the GNC process, though, who are like their entire world has been leading up to this commissioning date, right? Like their path is set. Like again, the Naval Academy is no, again, it's such a stable pathway of career. Like you know exactly where you're gonna go, you know you're gonna commission, you know you're gonna make exactly X number of dollars. Two years after that, you know you're gonna make even more dollars. And two years after that, you know you're gonna make even more dollars, right? Like it's so set and structured that the moment that that changes, like you're saying, could be upturning. It can be change, like just completely shifting. And so I just I'm so grateful for again you being willing to come on here and share your story and just highlight to the masses of the Naval Academy community that this is a real thing that happens to multiple people every year. Yes. It's it's never really talked about, it's never really acknowledged, it's never really like brought into the spotlight, but this is impacting, you know, five to fifteen midshipmen every single year. Right. And it's just it's it's tough, man. And you know, I'm gonna turn it over to you for again any other final thoughts or perspectives or anything you want to leave with the audience before we kind of talk about, again, for the Academy insider audience. What I want to let you know is that there's gonna be more to this episode, which is like we're kind of doing our best in a very informal, non-funded way to try and provide little bits of those gaps, fill in the gaps to help, you know, the GNC kind of laying softly on the other side. But I'm gonna turn it back over to you, Christian, for any parting words or thoughts or anything in reflection on this whole experience.

SPEAKER_06: 56:48

No, I appreciate the way that you put that. I think that's right on. I think separating your identity and in the way that you described is essential. I wish I would have done that. No regrets. I don't, you know, sit and mull over the way things, you know, could have been. I've you know gotten help that I need, like I said. I just think that's very important to have the humility to admit what you need and and the fact that it's okay that your mom, your dad can't do everything for you anymore. You know. Anyway, I would just end up repeating what you said. I really appreciate that. And you know, in in this transition, super important. If any parents are listening, if there is any midshipment that's going through the situation or is a few years removed from this situation, that it is it is not a unique experience. Each one is individual, but you're just not the first person ever to uh to have this term one. And there are folks to help. I'm here to help, Grant's here to help, and there are you know, there are folks around you that are capable of pointing you in the right direction. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 57:49

Well, Christian, thank you so much. I mean, obviously, objectively, I just love you. This has been a long journey together, and it's so fun that we get to use stuff like this to stay in touch and you know, stay in contact and everything. So I appreciate you being willing to share the story. And, you know, for the Academy Insider audience, again, I encourage you to stick around. We're gonna follow this up again. This new Academy Insider initiative is gonna be garnering the support of the Naval Academy community to give back and volunteer in certain aspects. You know, we're gonna have conversations with a grad by the name of Cedric Williams building a platform called Blue Magnet, and there's gonna be specifically a medical separation and GNC community uh that people can reach out to and be connected with other folks who have gone through the process. We have Laura Hatcher, another graduate who's gonna offer free headshots, free complimentary headshots for all GNCs in the area in preparation for the next job search. We have Andrew Shea, who's building a platform for resume generation, who's gonna allow, again, free services to midshipmen to generate a very professional resume for this next step, again, highlighting the uniqueness of the Naval Academy experience and building something that can go. We have Chris Servello who's gonna provide a little bit of life and career coaching to kind of help with all of that. And probably one, again, one of the coolest ones is we have another grad, Chris, he's a 2000 grad who runs a law firm doing VA disability claims, and he's offered to represent the midshipmen pro bono in their in their VA disability claim, moving through this process to provide a little bit of hopefully financial buffer as well for midshipmen as they figure out what the next step is. And so this is the goal is to rally the Naval Academy community together to provide a little bit of support for these midshipmen as they go through. Again, one of the things that we don't have that Christian pointed out is real medical help in counseling and therapy. And again, we highly encourage you to do that. But that that needs to be done through through your own like effort to like to find and go through the medical process for it's through your own initiative, but it's not it's not practically hard.

SPEAKER_06: 59:52

It's difficult to take the step, but Google searches, a 15-minute Google search can help you find somebody. And the financial support, the disability support through the VA, that all exists. You do have to take some initiative, and that's difficult, but I believe in you, Grant believes in you. Everything's okay. Your life's just a little bit different than you expected it was gonna be. That's right.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:13

And so for any GNC who's listening, or for any parent out there who may be listening, who may know someone, this resource exists. Again, just the relationship between a non-affiliated nonprofit and the Naval Academy. This is never gonna be a part of the Naval Academy's out processing. They're not gonna be able to be like, here are the resources of Academy Insider. This is gonna be a word of mouth initiative. And so, you know, we encourage anyone if they want to reach out to me at grant at AcademyInsider.com. Whether that's you want to volunteer some support, you want your resource listed on a resource guide that will provide the midshipman, all that's incredible. But if you're going through this process, reach out to me and we will get you taken care of. We will get you put in the ecosystem and we will provide you this support and this next step to find the next pathway in your life. That's right. And we appreciate it. Christian, thank you so much for your time, man. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06: 1:01:03

Have me in for something fun next time. This is heavy stuff. Support. Let's talk stories or something next time.

SPEAKER_04: 1:01:09

Very good. Very good. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for listening. Enjoy the next portion of the episode. All right, team. For the first segment of this episode, like you heard in the intro, a big piece of support. Supporting our GNCs, our graduate non-commissions, are providing them with community, with connection to people who have gone through the same thing. This is such a small niche, unique aspect of the Naval Academy experience. This is the people who fall through the cracks. This is the minority of the Naval Academy graduating class that go through this experience. And it can be very difficult for them. So one of the primary things that we wanted to help figure out was how do we connect them? How do we build community for them with people that can provide a true empathetic ear, knowing if they have experienced something either identical or very similar? And so I'm excited to be joined today by Cedric, a good friend of mine. He he and I go back, we can share a lot of plebe summer stories again, as me a detailer, him as a plebe, and him going through a very experience, a very similar experience that I went through when I was a plebe and being able to connect with him and help him on his journey. And he's gone ahead and created something incredible. A company called Blue Magnet, which we're going to partner with Academy Insider to provide that community aspect here for the GNCs in this project. And so, Cedric, I just want to give you the opportunity to talk about Blue Magnet and what it is you are building in support of the Service Academy community.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:34

Yeah, Grant, I appreciate you having me on. It's an honor. It's like a full circle moment, truly, from where we first met and where we are today. And even from the beginning of our relationship way back in 2016 to what we're doing today is centered around community. And that's the heart of Blue Magnet, which is a platform that assists Naval Academy graduates in major career transitions. So whether that's from military to civilian or even in their civilian life. And that's where I think that we come in in that community component with the GNC non-commission because that's a that's a huge transition. That the Naval Academy is very unique in that we are trained to go into the military. And unfortunately a lot of us are forced out or can't complete the commission, active duty portion of that. And then it's like we slip through the cracks and it's where do we go from here? So Blue Magnet is there to help people like that and other people who are just making career transitions as a whole.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:40

Yeah, absolutely. Can you explain? And we'll dive into a little bit of like the actual GNC specific stuff. But some of these communities that you're talking about, like if someone's making a transition and wants to get, you know, access to a mentor relationship in real estate and entrepreneurship and in finance and the MBA pipeline, like how would that process work? And what does your pipeline look like for a transitioning service member?

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:01

Yeah, that that process is super simple. So essentially walking through it from my shoes, say I'm the I'm the graduate, I would log on, I would make an account on Blue Magnet, log on, and I would surf and I would say, hey, I'm thinking about going to grad school, but I'm also interested in going into private equity. And this is this is a real life story from what I was dealing with when I was transitioning out. And I can go on there and see an array of mentors who have gone to business schools, a lot of them M7 business schools, gone to film school, gone to law school. And I can just speak with these people openly with no strings attached, there's no set commitment, very low, low stakes, low friction environment. And then I can also go and get that same exposure to people working in finance. And all these people are peer and also people who have been in the industry for a while and have worked their way up to even own companies or be managing directors at companies. So you sort of get the whole picture of the industry, and it's it's at the it's at your own time. So it's it's a it's a pretty low-stake environment to get people exposure so they can make the best informed decision for themselves. I love that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:20

It's it's really cool what you're building. I think it just builds together an incredible again, access to our community and making that happen. And I just I'm grateful for your specific dedication to supporting this this Academy Insider project of supporting GNCs. And so can you talk a little bit about like the folks who have who have come together and the community that you've already cultivated and created to support this? And the example of if there is a midshipman in this graduating class, in the class of 2026 coming up, and they find out they're gonna be in GNC here in January, February, March, and they reach out to you, what is that process gonna look like? Who are they gonna be connected to? And what services are you really providing for these midshipmen?

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:02

Yeah, so given that example you just gave, if they reach out to me, I would I would connect them with, or if they go to Blue Magnet, they would be connected with people who have gone through a GNC or med board process. Both both are similar, but different in their own right. And so they would be connected to me or people like me, people like Cordell Williams, Andrew Shea, and all these all these people have different different routes. The the services that Blue Magnet would provide is once you once you get a baseline as to what it will look like for you in your transition out or whatever path you're taking out or where you want to go, then we would have companies or we would have people that work at certain companies that I'll be like, hey, go over here, speak to this person, gain knowledge from them, maybe come back to me or go to someone else on the site who could help you prep for interviews or resume building, which again, Andrew Shea would be great at that. And he was a graduate non-commission. He'll be he'll be on the podcast here in just a little bit. Okay, okay. So that's an early shout out to that's an early shout out to Shay. But but it's basically the the experience, the ideal experience when I was building Blue Magnet for the grad is to sort of bounce around like a bee pollinating pollinating flowers. And that's why it's not necessarily partnered with with one person, because it's it's you can take a little bit from each person's experience because no one can walk the exact same path that I walked, and no one can walk the exact same path that that you walked. Everyone's situation is very unique. And so I think the great thing that Blue Magnet does is it facilitates a warm introduction and and welcome invite to to these worlds that people can tell you their different experiences, refer you over here to that person, and then you receive feedback and see which which works best and really formulate your own your own solution. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:03

No, man, it's it's phenomenal. And I think in the case, again, especially like you're mentioning these major life transitions. And again, if you find out that you're going to graduate but not commission after your time at the Native Academy, that is a major transition. And uh, you know, again, to have access to folks who have gone through this and landed on the other side, who have gone through the difficulty and now have successful careers, lives, have found their new purpose, have gone through these struggles, to be able to have access to them in a safe way, to be able to like touch base with these folks and have, again, what I what I like to truly believe is a true empathetic ear of someone who gets it, who has felt what you have felt. Our journeys may be a little bit different. These roads may not be exactly the same, but that feeling of loss, that feeling of confusion, that feeling of having to figure it out, there is a group of Naval Academy people who are ready to talk to those midshipmen. Thanks to you. And I and I really appreciate the work that you have done to put this together. You know, I know this is something that we've been talking about for a long time. And so for us to go and work together to kind of create this community and cultivate this in a way that'll support the GNCs, I just want to say a big thank you to you. And um just a just a huge appreciation for what you've done. And I'll turn it over to you. Again, we're gonna wrap this up quick. We have a lot of you know things to talk about on this episode, but I want to give you the opportunity to talk about again your platform, anything that you're doing, any shout-outs you want to make, and just turn it over to you to wrap it up.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:30

Yeah, so this upcoming Monday, in partnership with the United States Naval Academy Alumni Association and Foundation, the initial outreach to a targeted group of Naval Academy graduates who have indicated through the system that they are actively looking to transition in their career. Those targeted emails will go out. So it bypassed the the wait list on Blue Magnet. So I just urge everyone to check their emails. If you don't get an email, go to Blue Magnet on on LinkedIn, follow us there, and uh and join the join the wait list. Once everything is is good to go with this with this founding cohort on Blue Magnet, we're gonna open the floodgates and have everybody on there in one big community. Amazing.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:13

Thank you so much, Cedric. I appreciate it, brother. Thank you. And uh to everyone listening, stick up, stick with me, and we're gonna jump into the next interview of the next portion of this project. All right, Andrew, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. If you don't mind just introducing yourself to the Academy Insider audience and telling people a little bit about your journey to where you're at now and what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:32

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Grant. I appreciate you having me on this podcast. I've been a longtime listener, as they say. So I've uh my name is Andrew Shea. I graduated the Naval Academy 2020 with an undergrad in in cyber operations. And over the last six years, I've kind of built a career in the industry. I work at Microsoft, I've done a lot of cool things there. I was on a team that investigated cyber attacks, had the opportunity to travel to 34 different countries, and now I work on the federal side of Microsoft, helping the US government further their security posture. And I currently reside in Nashville, Tennessee, of all places.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:08

How about that? So cool. And one of those things that you're doing kind of as a almost separately from what you're doing with Microsoft is you're building a really cool program that I want you to have the opportunity to tell the Academy Insider audience about and just some of the things that you can feature in on.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:24

Yeah, no, absolutely. So this is something that's that's been in the works for for three years now and has gone through different iterations of development, and we're finally at product launch, which will be January 2nd. It started with the goal of helping veterans get to a real conversation faster when they're transitioning from their military service. When I graduated from the Naval Academy and I was switching from being in the Navy to working in the private industry, I really had no idea where it started. You start with the resume, do you start with connecting with people? What are the different internship options? What skills do I even have that that recruiters or companies would find value in? And I've had the opportunity to mentor almost 300 veterans now over the last six years in different stages of their transition. And one of the things that I see severely missing is the understanding of how to build a resume. I think everyone has a different opinion on what a resume should look like. And no opinions are wrong per se, but I've been part of different hiring boards at Microsoft and had the opportunity to help several veterans get jobs at Microsoft and at other companies. And I think, you know, because of the chase, I built a program. It's called Operation MOS. And the goal is simple. You have a veteran who's transitioning from military service, and it's a step-by-step walkthrough of how to build your resume, and it builds it for you in real time. So the way that I do it is you sign up, create an account, you log in, and you provide all the basic information that you would be on your resume, your name, your LinkedIn, your security clearance level, you know, where you live, your email address, and then it goes into kind of the core functionality is I break every part of the work experience section of your resume down into your mission, your responsibilities, and your impact, right? And the mission is what was the role, what was the command, what were you geared towards doing in that position? Your responsibility is just that is what were you specifically being asked to do in that role? And then the third piece is what impact did you did you have? And you could type anything into those three boxes, and then you click generate with AI. And I've got a custom algorithm behind the scenes that takes all of your inputs and spits out three to four bullet points for that section of your work experience. You can keep going at every piece of your work history from your active duty time, and then you go to the resume or the profile summary, and it does the same thing. It takes everything that you've already entered into the program and builds you a summary that's tailored specifically towards the type of role that you're looking for. At the very end, you get an industry standard resume, a template that I designed. There's no guesswork on what your resume should look like, how long it should be. This does it all for you. And every step throughout the process, you're allowed to interact with those artificial intelligence generated bullets to make sure that it is exactly what you want. One of the things that I'm proud of is, you know, everyone worries about the hallucination of artificial intelligence. And through testing over the last few months, I've gotten it down to less than 2% of the output is quote unquote hallucinated. And anything that is hallucinated, a vast majority of it is just adjectives better describing the impact that you had. I think that the message that I want to send to veterans through this program is that veterans don't have a skills gap. Hiring systems have a translation gap. And this program is supposed to help bridge the gap between translation service members, veterans, and the corporate world.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:49

Yeah, and like you're saying, the translation between military and the civilian world, like you're saying, it is one that is very difficult. And while that translation gap exists on the civilian side, it exists for service members as well. They have no idea how to articulate what they have done in the military in a way that relates in any way, shape, or form to kind of what's going on in the civilian world and the private work sector. And so I think what you're building is is really cool. I appreciate you being on this journey to bring it to life after just individually helping hundreds of individuals kind of on that journey, which is which is really exciting and really cool. You know, one of the things that I am really grateful for is you are going to be using Operation MOS, hopefully in a way to help our graduate non-commissioned midshipmen as well, because this is a really niche, really interesting case of folks who need a resume, but have never thought about a resume, never talked about a resume, never did a summer internship in the civilian world. They have no idea what to do. And the reality is they don't really have work experience either. They've been college students kind of going into this transition. So I just want to give you the opportunity to talk about what interested you about, again, volunteering your time, help in Operation MOS to contributing to this project for the GNCs at the Naval Academy.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:06

Yeah, no, I I appreciate the question, Grant. I think that so one GNCs, individuals who went to the Naval Academy, get their degree, but did not have the opportunity to serve in uniform. That caused near and dear to my heart as a GNC myself. I was a Service Warfare Officer Select. I had a boat out in Sasville, Japan. And then unfortunately the week before commissioning, I was told that I was medically unfit to serve. And so it kind of threw my world upside down. I had no idea what type of job I wanted to do. I majored in cyber operations, but I maybe didn't pay attention to a lot of my classes because I thought I had a job as you know as a military officer and a leader. And so, yes, would love to help any GNCs that come through kind of what you're building and help them out in one of two ways is one or both, is to use my resume builder so you're not guessing about what your resume should look like. And two, partner with me, reach out to me directly. Grant, you've got my cell phone, you know, feel free to give it out. And I'm happy to coach them through one resume at a time and kind of showcase that you might not have had traditional work experience like you would after five years of military service, but the roles and the responsibilities and the different billets that we had at the Naval Academy are absolutely instrumental in the civilian world. And I can showcase how this program would help you translate what you did at the Naval Academy in those billets into the civilian world. And it's exactly what I did, right? I I didn't want to tell GNCs or teletransitioning veterans to do something that I'd never done myself, but I I've been in their shoes. I've built 17 different resumes. I've been very confused about if my resume should be three pages or if it should have my profile picture on it, or if it should be in several different color fonts, right? But I understand what resume works. These resumes have gotten a lot of veterans hired in a lot of different organizations, and this is really just my experience put into a program. So yeah, absolutely would love to help GNCs whatever way possible.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:09

You're the man. I appreciate it, right? And this fits into the overall goal. Again, I've kind of mentioned this to the audience who has been listening, but the overall goal of preparing the GNCs to show up at the Service Academy Career Conference and tangibly be prepared, right? And have that in hand. And so, you know, again, to have your assistance and support, to get those midshipmen ready, to take advantage of an incredible event that does exist and that the Service Academy Career Conference, the Naval Naval Academy Alumni Association has put on in support, you know, of our Service Academy community. We just want to help those folks be prepared and be ready and not let anyone fall through the cracks. And so I, you know, I genuinely appreciate your support. And so, again, for anyone who's listening, if there is a GNC out there, you know a GNC, or you're just trying to understand, you know, part of this process from the community that is being put together by Cedric to the resumes here with Andrew to headshots by Laura, which we'll be talking about later in the episode and so many more different aspects. Our goal is just to have them ready to be feeling confident and prepared heading into a Service Academy career conference or any kind of hiring fair moving forward into the future. But also, Andrew, again, you're not just building this for the GNCs, you're building this for the veteran community at large. So I do want to give you an opportunity for anyone who may be listening out there. If someone wants to support your project, understand your project more, andor utilize what you're building with Operation MOS, how can they do that and where should they go? What should they do?

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:35

Yeah, no, absolutely, Grant. And I think that first and foremost, this is my way of giving back the same way that so many veterans, Service Academy grads, you know, Laura as well, and yourself have given to me over the past six years and helping me kind of kickstart my journey into the corporate world. And so the idea is going to be that every veteran that needs a resume, no matter where they're at in their journey, they will be able to get one through my platform. And I want to be clear, this is one part of the process, right? Getting a job in the in the civilian world isn't just having a good resume. It's multifaceted, it's having headshots, it's it's having a network of individuals who you can reach out to and understand what life is like in their specific role. It's understanding how to prepare for interviews, but I want to shorten the time from when someone is understands that they're getting out of active duty service and starting a job in the corporate world. I want to minimize the amount of time that takes for them to feel prepared. And so the idea is pretty simple. In less than 30 minutes of time with my program, you will have an industry standard resume, and it's going to turn your experience into something a recruiter can understand in less than 10 seconds. Right. And so for organizations, I'm also looking at partnering with different companies that support veterans in this journey, right? And so one thing that I've developed in this is an enterprise access dashboard, if you will. So if you're a company, so you're Microsoft or Apple or Google or your veteran nonprofit organization that helps veterans, you have the ability to get access to my program and sponsor a number of veterans where when they build their resumes, you'll get access to those in your database or in your dashboard. Makes it a lot easier for you to understand where their skills are, who you can plug them in contact with, and help how you. Can accelerate their journey into the corporate world. So I'm excited. A lot of stuff coming down.

SPEAKER_04: 1:21:28

Absolutely. And if there is someone listening, an Academy Insider Audience member who's involved in this world that wants to support your project, how can they get in touch with you in order to kind of get through that?

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:39

Absolutely. So I will I guess one is admin at operationmous.com is my email. You can go to operationmous.com as well. My contact information is there. The LinkedIn also works great. But we'd love the opportunity for anyone listening to kind of showcase and demo the program. And then whether you're a transitioning active duty service member or you're an organization that seeks to empower veterans in their transition process. We'll love to kind of demo and show you the program and also you know seek feedback on how you think it can be better.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:11

Yeah, absolutely. Well, dude, thank you so much for your time today. Again, I appreciate your willingness and to support this project and just the cool thing that you're building in general for the military, transitioning service member and veteran community. So thank you so much. And for everyone listening, we're going to hop into our next interview with Laura after this to talk about what she's doing, support midshipmen. As Andrew was talking about, this is a multifaceted approach. And we have another grad who's willing to support on the headshot front. So really excited to jump into that interview. Thank y'all so much. And let's get to the next section.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:43

Thanks, Grant.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:44

All right. Hey, Laura, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today on the podcast as a part of this very special episode. If you don't mind, just giving the audience a quick introduction about who you are and especially now what you're doing with your photography business.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:58

Awesome. Thanks for having me, Grant. I'm very happy to be here. And so I am Laura Hatcher of Laura Hatcher Photography. As you can see, I have to remind myself who I am by putting it on my uniform. This is after being in military. We'll drop the link for Merc. Yeah. Exactly. So 30 years in a uniform, you learn that your name has to be somewhere on you. And this is me back in uniform. Retired in 2018 out of DC, and I was an intelligence officer. I took my clearances and I ran in the opposite direction from all the three-letter agencies in the DC area. Because, you know, when you've been institutionalized that long, it's like, and now you have a choice. You decide that let me go find something else to do. I went into the nonprofit world for like five minutes, decided it's very overrated working for somebody else. And so I looked at my hobby and said, you know what, I could probably turn it into a jobby. And here I am, a professional photographer, and I'm serving our community still, which is why we're talking today. My main focus is veterans transitioning out of the military because I've done that, been there, done that. I also want to emphasize to our active duty and to our veterans that it's not just a job and that at the end of your tenure, whether it's four years or 40 years, we want to see pictures that showcase and documented your legacy and your journey. And that's why I like to do military portraits, retirement ceremonies, and of course, headshots to make you look boring and professional for your next job.

SPEAKER_04: 1:24:34

And this is my personal plug for Laura, too, especially in the terms of retirement ceremonies. If there are any parents who are listening who are in the service themselves, potentially finishing their careers in ten years, or anyone listening, I so my sponsor family, Ed Pilcher, he was the commanding officer of Naval Air Facilities Washington. And Laura did the retirement ceremony. And that was how our relationship initially kind of started in this world, especially was meeting her at that ceremony and having her do what was truly a phenomenal job memorializing memorializing. There we go. Words in capturing those moments, which we still look back to to this day. And again, my family and my sponsor family, again, my big family, we have the big group chat. It's literally called Academy Insider because Academy Insider was born in their house. And um, you know, we we still look back at those photos all the time. We still talk all the time and we do that, and it was done phenomenally. So if you are looking at doing a retirement ceremony, especially in you know, the the DMV anywhere, like reach out to Laura.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:37

She does a phenomenal job at what she does with people and it was your dad that found me, not you.

SPEAKER_04: 1:25:43

Our relationship started there, but yeah, my dad found you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My dad is more connected in this space than I am. I swear to God, that dude, that dude is he's connected.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:54

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 1:25:55

Yeah. But kind of transitioning specifically to this program, and I know this is something that you've wanted to give back into again, especially transitioning service members and capturing them. But what made you want to contribute to this project? And again, I'll let you kind of talk about what you'll offer to those midshipmen, specifically the Naval Academy, who are going to fall into the GNC program and helping them out.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26:17

Yeah, so I was participating in the Naval Academy Minority Association Leadership Conference a couple of years ago. And during that, one or two of the midshipmen that were participating in a panel happened to mention that they were not graduating. And the audience, you know, mostly alumni from Navy, they didn't quite understand what they meant by that. And, you know, and then so what happens next? You don't you don't get a commission, where are you going? And that's the beauty of this network is you say something that you're having a challenge in front of our alums, and everybody kind of rushes to the stage and says, How can I help? Right? And for me, this is about it's not about making money so much as it is about continuing to serve. I've been in the Navy all my blooming life, sir. Right? My dad, my dad raised me, he's a uh Navy Master Chief, and really since the age of nine, my stepfather, he he taught me that it's about some serving something higher than yourself. And so at that conference, we hear that they, a couple of these young men and women, didn't have any prospects. And suddenly from the audience, people are saying, Come talk to me. I, you know, I'll get you into accounting, I'll get you into HR, whatever it is they said that they had a desire to do. And I thought, what could I do? You know, which is pretty much every day when I wake up and I see bad news, what can I do with that? And I've always kind of thought, you know, I have an expertise that I can share, whether it's my leadership or my managerial skills or my mentorship skills. And topography is just one of those things that helps you start over, right? It's a first impression. You're coming out of the Naval Academy with no skill sets, probably no pictures of yourself in a suit and tie, because what's a suit and tie? Yeah, right, or some type of business attire. And so it's the least I can do in terms of giving back is to offer complimentary headshots to all the GNCs. I mean, the challenge is just knowing that I'm here, that you're here. Yeah. And that's the point I know of this conversation. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 1:28:28

And I appreciate it because again, that it just it just adds a certain level of uh of confidence and preparedness that you feel, right? When you have that and you're making this transition. Again, half the game that we discover in the military is you just got to fake it till you make it. And and like that initial transition, that initial move into this completely new world, something that you haven't planned for, you haven't prepared for, you haven't done anything. If you can get together and almost make it look like you know what you're doing or that you are prepared, again, it just provides that first step into, you know, making it happen. And, you know, one of these things I want to put on record and in the air too for everyone who's listening is that Laura has been behind the scenes helping me bring this project to life for over like a year and a half now. This is something that we've been trying to work in the background. You know, it things are not always super simple. And so we've kind of had to create workarounds to create something really incredible. And, you know, it's really exciting for me to be able to have this conversation with Laura, allow her to kind of talk about what she's doing because it's not just the photos. She has spent hours and hours and hours of effort with me as well, trying to bring this to life to support our GNCs. And so, Laura, I just want to say thank you for that as well and what you're contributing again actively to the project and the GNCs coming through, and turn it over to you to kind of just riff and end it about anything that you would want to leave the audience about you, your business, or you know, the support of the Naval Academy community.

SPEAKER_01: 1:29:55

Absolutely. Actually, I just want to talk to the GNCs. Yeah, I know this is a challenging time that you're going through, and but it's only a second, really a fraction of the great career that you're about to have. And uh you have to recognize that you have resources. You may not know what they are right now, but that's why Grant and this program came together, is so that we can share with you just a myriad of people that are there to support. We've got quite a few volunteers that want to help you. And that's really the lesson in life in general, right? You're not gonna get to the end or to the middle for that matter without surrounding yourself with mentors and sponsors and accountability buddies. And that's that's why I'm sitting here today, is because somebody starting as far back as one of my counselors in high school said, You've got potential. We just gotta figure out where it is. But I really appreciate you uh allowing me the opportunity to come on and talk about this program because as you know, it's near and dear to my heart. So thank you, Grant.

SPEAKER_04: 1:30:58

Absolutely. Well, it's my pleasure, Laura. Again, a genuine thank you from the bottom of my heart for your efforts in making this happen and getting it out there. So thank you. And again, to all the GNCs who may be listening, please reach out. Like we will set up a time for you to get a professional headshot and get you ready for this next step. The goal is to help you land softly on whatever that next phase is, that next pathway that you're gonna take. So we appreciate it. Thank you all so much. And we'll jump into the next segment right now. All right, moving on to our next segment. Jeff, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today. I just want to give you the opportunity to tell all of the listeners about what it is that you do in support of service members, veterans, you know, executive level coaching in the business world in general, and how you're doing that in support of the military community.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:45

Awesome. Yeah, thanks, Grant. I appreciate you having me and giving me the opportunity. So I'm an executive leadership coach, and my primary focus and primary coaching area is working with leaders and transitioning kind of the skills that they have, either from previous organizations in the military, and then connecting those skills intentionally with their outcomes. And so that, you know, almost kind of like creating their own leadership brand and making sure that the things they're trying to execute on is what's coming through in their actions, and then giving them feedback and opportunities to kind of have a thought partner to adjust and course correct with, you know, kind of having your own trusted friend. Like if you've ever seen one of those Snickers commercials where the guys like Joe Pesci and his buddies, like, hey man, you're not being yourself. And then they give a perfect bar. So, like, I'm not the professional version of that, right? People come and we meet uh and we talk and like, hey, how do you think things are going? What's happening? And we help them develop strategies for how they can be the best version of themselves to enable their personal outcomes or their outcomes of their teams. And we offer a host of services from one-on-one coaching, team coaching, disc profiles, other personality assessments, leadership strength indexes and 360 feedback tools. So kind of have a whole host of tools in our toolkit and helping people develop their tools.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33:05

I love that. And if there are midshipmen parents listening or anyone kind of outside of the direct military bubble, do you are you open to that as well? Is it a military-specific business? Kind of what would your overarching business model be for anyone who may be listening? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:18

So definitely welcome to any industry. I I currently work with folks who are in the legal field, construction, medical, entrepreneurial space. And it's anyone who wants to be a better version of themselves. We have something for everybody in that area. So again, it's I feel like I've got this vision of what I want to do, and I need someone to kind of partner with me to help me kind of check my math, so to speak, and can help me execute on that vision. And yeah, absolutely welcome to have a conversation with anybody who might be interested.

SPEAKER_04: 1:33:51

I love that. And very cool. And again, main reason you're on this episode today. Again, obviously, we have a relationship that goes back a little bit. And I'm so grateful for what you're willing to contribute to this project, specifically for the midshipmen who are going to be a part of that GNC category. Again, they're going to graduate, not commission. And as you're mentioning, again, what you do is designed for anyone who has a desire to become a better version of themselves, kind of help, specifically in this situation of, you know, a tough transition of not only profession and career, but of identity, of purpose, of all these different aspects. And so, again, one of the beautiful things that you've offered is, again, for the midshipmen to have kind of some pro bono-free coaching classes originally to kind of help prepare them for that next step. And I just want to turn it over to you about what made you want to be a part of this project and what are you hoping to be able to provide and support midshipmen with as they go through this transition?

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:42

Yeah, so so two real reasons why I wanted to be involved. The first is when I was approaching commissioning, I had a series of back injuries to where my commissioning status was in doubt. And I remember coming up to my pre-commissioning physical being like, what do I do if they make me non-commissionable? Like, what what's that going to look like? This is all I kind of all my eggs are in this basket. So while I can't completely relate to what these young midshipmen are going through, I have a kind of a maybe a small taste of some of the anxiety. And then another part of it is helping people now who are transitioning as they retire. That process of pivoting from one place and recreating an identity, right? You had a vision of where you were, who you are, and being able to help people recreate with intention their identity for their next step in their career is kind of one of my favorite things to help people do. I I work with a lot of folks who are in transition and trying to do stuff. And when they make decisions on their career or their next stage of life that aren't grounded in who they are and what they believe in, inevitably they're going to fail. It's just not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. And so we have a process where we can work with people where we do kind of a values-based assessment of who do you want to be? Where do you want to go? What are the things that matter to you? And then help them match that. And I'll give you a perfect example. And I think you and I talked about this initially when we first started talking about this. I had a buddy of mine who's like, I want to be home so I can coach Little League. And I'm like, great. And then he's like, I think I want to apply for this job at Amazon. I'm like, great. What about it appeals to you? And he's like, the salary. I'm like, okay, what about the other stuff? And he's like, well, I would have to work three 12-hour shifts at night. I'm like, how's that work with coaching Little League? And there was just this silence. And so being able to partner with somebody to help them really think through is this what I really want? Does this match the thing that is burning inside of me? Or will it be a stepping stone to get to the thing that's burning inside of me? Yeah. Can be powerful. And so I really I love partnering with people on that. I would love to be able to do that for these GNC folks, to be able to help them make that next step with purpose and intentionality instead of just saying, I'm going to take the first job that pops up because I'm really, really worried. And that's valid. And maybe that's what you have to do in the short term. But then how can we help them in the long term to then get to that, right? That purpose-driven feeling we all had when we joined the Naval Academy, like that something bigger, that drive to be able to tap into that and use that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:37:20

Dude, it's so cool. And I'm so happy that you're, again, that you're a part of this overall. Like I'm just so grateful. Because again, what's really crazy is that they may not feel it this yet, but they're their experience and kind of what they're going through is almost very similar to the folk who or the person who is retiring and now pivoting and transitioning, or the transitioning service member. They're having to make a decision at 22 years old and go through kind of the emotional processing, mental processing, this identity shift at 22 versus 42. And so this is like a compressed timeline for them to try and have to figure it out and to be able to have someone in their corner who gets it, who understands, who empathizes, who can guide those conversations. Because again, we may have, you know, somewhere in the January, February time frame until May to kind of figure out, hopefully, or at least provide a little bit of direction to help them find that next step on the next pathway.

SPEAKER_07: 1:38:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:38:13

And again, it's one of these amazing things that the Naval Academy Alumni Association and the Greater Service Academy Alumni Association does is provide and put on the Service Academy Career Conferences. And if we can provide these midshipmen with a little bit of coaching, a little bit of consulting, a little bit of understanding heading into these situations, just want to make sure that they're prepared to maximize the benefits of what the Greater Service Academy community is providing. And I'm just so grateful for your involvement because I know you're going to do a great job in making sure that like we're hit, we're we're kind of rounding it out in preparation to make sure these people are on the right path. So I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:38:48

Yeah. Hey, again, you're welcome and thank you for letting me do this. One of the things that I really want people to remember when they go through this, right? Is maybe it sounds hokey. Everything happens for a reason, you know, and it's so funny. I'm uh right before I got on the call with you, I was talking to somebody about the Japanese art of Kinsugi, where they repair broken ceramic. And the way that it's repaired with its gold fill, it actually makes these old pieces of ceramic more valuable. And it's this idea that from these things that we think are broken and damaged and imperfect comes something more beautiful. And with the right coaching, with the right focus, with the right support, this thing that seems catastrophic in the moment for these folks could end up being the most pivotal and wonderful thing that happened in their lives. And so if we can support them as part of this network and help them make their own Kinsugi, then that's fantastic. And I'm I'm all in.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39:44

I love it. Well, dude, thank you so much. I appreciate your time. Anything else you want to leave the audience with before we move on to our next segment of another incredible alumni helping out?

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:54

I I would be remiss if I didn't throw out a beat army. And uh and how great was it. Another big win. Another big win, baby. I love it. So absolutely no. Thank you very much. And I'm happy to help whoever I can with this stuff, and thank you for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_04: 1:40:08

Perfect. Absolutely. And as everyone knows listening to this episode, if you want to get in touch with Jeff, just feel free to shoot me a message and I'll make that intro and get everyone put together. So appreciate it all. Jeff, thank you for your time. And let's move on to the next segment.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:18

Thank you. Take care.

SPEAKER_04: 1:40:20

All right. In this segment here, we are with Chris. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here again. Another Naval Academy graduate, very successful military and law career. And I'm excited about this piece. So I'm going to turn it over to you to introduce yourself, give you an opportunity to talk a little bit about your Navy background, but then also currently what you're doing and what you're building with the home front group.

SPEAKER_05: 1:40:41

Thanks, Grant, and thanks for having me on. It's a real pleasure to be here. So you said I'm a Naval Academy graduate. I graduated a little bit before you. A couple of years ago. In the year 2000. So we are the class of the century. I just had my 25th year reunion last fall, which was incredible to just kind of reconnect with a lot of people I haven't seen. And it's everything they tell you, right? Like you you pick off right where you left off. Yeah, I graduated in 2000, went into the submarine force, had a great experience as a JO on a fast attack submarine. Was looking for other things to do in the Navy besides being the carbon header on a submarine, and I can. Across the law education program, I was able to kind of slip through the cracks, as I like to say, and get accepted into that. And that allowed me to go to law school on active duty. So I did that in DC. And when I graduated, I spent the rest of my career as a JAG. So I did 11 years primarily doing criminal defense. So I was, as I like to say, a more charismatic and better looking version of Tom Cruise and a few good men, although less hair.

SPEAKER_04: 1:41:51

You can handle the truth, baby.

SPEAKER_05: 1:41:53

Yeah. That's right. And got to do that on both coasts, got to do that overseas, had a really unique experience catting on and off the USS Enterprise on her last deployment to do a guilty plea for one of our criminal masterminds trying to sell spice underway. And just like, you know, great experience overall, but you know, all good things kind of come to an end. And as I was purchasing 20 years, I was thinking very seriously about like what's next. And, you know, most of my mentors said, like, if you want a second career, you need to retire as soon as possible. Um retired to an eight, used my GI Bill to sort of make a pivot into working with small businesses and entrepreneurs because I just wanted to be my own boss. I didn't know what that looked like, but I knew I wanted to do something like that. Had a great experience doing that, and along the way, met my current business partner. And at the same time, I was can was feeling this drawback to the veteran community and wanted to do something more with veterans. I worked with a couple veteran entrepreneurs, and that was very gratifying. Veteran benefits kept popping up as like, how can I leverage my benefits? How can I use that? I leverage my own to sort of make this transition. And my partner and I saw an opportunity with VA benefits and a way to offer you know services where there are not a lot of qualified service providers, better, faster, cheaper. So we formed Homefront Group with this idea that we could kind of use the VA benefits that everybody earns as a way to create this upward social mobility for veterans as they transition into the civilian life. And I've been doing that now for almost two years, and it's just been an incredible experience helping people who have sort of hit a lot of roadblocks and have found frustration with the system, only to find that we can give them relief. We can increase their rating, we can get more conditions connected, we can unlock benefits that are really game changers for them and their families. And that's just been an incredible experience. So that's that's what I'm doing now. I'm a VA accredited attorney, a qualified to represent veterans all the way through the Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims, and it's just been it's been great.

SPEAKER_04: 1:44:14

So cool. And again, this is where, again, I get it personally. Brad for Chris as well. Again, I I've been able to work with him on my process as well. And this is, again, a really, really positive experience. And that's when, again, when he was willing to be a part of this project and give back to the midshipman, it made me feel really good because I knew, again, this is a it's a weird spot for me to be in at times where you know I want midshipmen to get help. But if I don't know the person or I don't really know the service, then it can feel weird like associating or having them be involved in the process. But to have another Naval Academy graduate who's been through the process, who's been through the service as a submariner and then a JAG, now to come back and be, again, a literal attorney. And I think a lot of times, you know, again, for midshipmen parents, they may not know this yet because it hasn't been a part of their journey. But there are a lot of services out there that try and do, you know, VA claim support that that aren't attorneys. They're just kind of like, you know, they're just services and you know, it is it's kind of it's interesting. But anyway, again, like to have this be a legitimate, real great service that has personally helped me in my VA claim as well. It's just it's it's incredible. And I'm really glad that you're you know willing to be a part of this program. And you know, I'd love to turn it over to you to talk a little bit briefly about the fact that legit men are eligible, again, especially in this case of a graduate non-commissioned who are being separated from the service due to their medical condition. They're they're they're eligible for VA benefits. And so I'd love for you to talk a little bit about kind of that distinction. I know you had a great article about it on LinkedIn recently, and just kind of talk about where you can fit into this process for midshipment.

SPEAKER_05: 1:45:57

Yeah, so it is a real, it's it's a real gap, not just in knowledge, but in who can help. There's there's this common myth, right, that no commission needs no VA benefits, and that's not true. The when you're when you're looking at just disability compensation, yeah, it it it service at a service academy counts. Yeah. And graduating from an academy but without a commission still entitles you to a lot of benefits that will really help you in that transition. There's there's some certain hooks that you need to, you know, obviously have, right? The condition needs to have started at the academy. If you had a prior condition and it got worse because of the training you went through at the academy, that could qualify you as well. Some common examples are orthopedic injuries, stress fractures, cardiac or pulmonary conditions, mental health. Basically, if it showed up or it worsened while you were at the academy or any of the academies, and you still have it, you should absolutely try to claim it. You know, there's one of the things is that there has been this idea going around about reframing VA disability because disability kind of carries with it a stigma that doesn't accurately capture what it's there for. It's really more like workers' comp. And I'm not the only person who's who's articulated that. Uh it's there to make you whole. Yeah. You know, we all come out with wear and tear. And whether you're adjusted with Shipman or a cadet, whether you serve 20 years, whether you serve 30, whether you serve five, right? There's always going to be some wear and tear. And you've only got that because you decided to serve your country. So the benefits are there to make you whole, to get you back to where you should be, to help kind of give you that jump start as you are in your next career. And if you are a cadet or midshipman getting that golden handshake, you need this more than anyone.

SPEAKER_04: 1:47:59

100%. Like this give again, that transition to this new world with no experience, no resume, no anything, to like have a buffer of help with potentially a monthly stipend that can cover you and make you feel secure, right? To have all these different aspects, have your healthcare covered in many cases, right? Like that is a security blanket that gives you a foundation to land on as you figure out the next step.

SPEAKER_05: 1:48:23

Right. So quick, yeah, a quick example of where this can really help. And this is something that, you know, one of my best friends at the academy was found himself in this situation. He very quickly was able to, you know, transition into a civilian career with the federal government. But that's not the case for everybody. And when you don't have the network in the private sector that another university might give you, you have to, you can have there are a lot of sacrifices you have to make to keep your foot in the door. And so having your health care covered by the VA, at least for the serious conditions that you need treatment for, and to have that stipend from the you know, the monthly disability compensation that you are entitled to, that allows you to do a free internship. That allows you to sort of take this, you know, low-paying entry-level position with a lot of upside if you do well, and make sure that you can keep the lights on, that you can eat, that you can, you know, cover your transportation. All the basic living things are there. It allows you to make that, you know, make that sacrifice, work for free if that's what it takes, and get your foot in the door to jumpstart your second career that the Naval Academy or West Point or Air Force really really didn't prepare you for. Right. We don't we don't graduate and instantly are qualified to go into investment banking or or real estate or whatever it is, right? Yeah, even teaching. And you know, whatever you whatever calls to you, you probably need to take a step back and and and have a little bit of a restart. And having a monthly check that's tax-free is really gonna help soften that transition. It is absolutely worth any every single cadet and midshipman exploring if they're gonna find themselves in this situation. And the turnaround, you know, it's a crapshoot with the VA, but the turnaround can be pretty quick if if you if you attack it as soon as you find out that you are gonna be graduating without a commission.

SPEAKER_04: 1:50:43

Oh yeah. Well, dude, thank you so much. And thank you so much for offering these services again to the midshipmen. And again, I know this is something we had talked about. And for everyone listening as well, again, kind of we've had the lead up up to this point of you know, community headshots, resume building, and now the VA claim side of the house. Again, Chris and his team have been kind enough to again offer these services for the midshipmen specifically who are going to be GNCs as pro bono services for them as they figure out their next step of life, which is just it's unbelievable. It's really incredible and so grateful. And again, this is also my call out to all the listeners out there who are nearing retirement, nearing their team, like nearing everything. If you are gonna get ready for your VA claim, like reach out to Chris. Again, I personally have gone through the experience. It was great. It this this resonates for everyone. So again, we'll have all the contact information. You can reach out to me anytime, and I'll put you in touch with Chris to get you connected to the home front group. But what they're doing is support the midshipmen who fall into this again, this not-so golden handshake category is truly special and it's gonna impact a lot of lives. And so, Chris, again, thank you so much for for your time and your involvement in this project. And I'm just really grateful for it, man.

SPEAKER_05: 1:51:53

Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on, and hopefully this helps. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:51:56

All right. Well, everyone, thank you so much. That's gonna wrap us up in terms of all of the interview portions here, which I'm so excited about. Thank you so much. I'm really looking forward to getting this project live and really making a positive impact in the lives of some midshipmen and midshipmen families. So appreciate it. Thank y'all so much. Enjoy the rest of your day and thank you for listening. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Academy Insider Podcast. I really hope you liked it, enjoyed it, and learned something during this time. If you did, please feel free to like and subscribe or leave a comment about the episode. We really appreciate it to hear your feedback about everything and continue to make Academy Insider an amazing service that guides, serves, and supports midshipmen, future midshipmen, and their families. Thank you.