Andrew Najberg Reads His Lyrical Fiction, Discusses Its Origins

Andrew Najberg returns with a couple of short readings from his forthcoming releases and a discussion of the origins of his novels.  You don't want to miss this! 

www.mfapayday.com 

Transcript

Drema 0:06

welcome to MFA payday, the podcast where we help you launch or reignite your writing career with intention through interviews with those doing just that. I'm Dreamer Drudge. And I'm

Barry 0:18

Barry Drudge. Today we welcome back to the show our friend Andrew Nyberg. Andrew Nyberg is the author of the collection of poems, The Goats Have Taken Over the Barracks. From Finishing Line Press, 2021, and the chapbook of poems, Easy to Lose, Finishing Line Press, 2007, as well as a novel that came out earlier this year. Which I've read and loved the Mobius door, Wicked House Publishing, his novel Gala Talk, Wicked House Publishing is forthcoming in November. We're excited about that. Yes. And he has yet another book, a dark fantasy YA novel, The Neverborn Thief on the Horizon in January 2024 from Olive Ridley Press. Learn more about him at AndrewNyberg. com. That's A N D R E W N A J B E R G. com. Well, we want to just welcome you back. We were so excited and talk about what's going on publishing wise with you.

Andrew 1:31

Well, first off, yeah, thanks for having me back. I've been looking forward to this. Um, so I mean, there's, there's been a ton of news. Um, so of course, yeah, the, the, the most pressing thing on my plate is, um, has been spreading the word about, uh, the novel Gala Talk, um, which, uh, was originally actually signed with another press. Um, but, uh, I just didn't feel like the relationship was working the way it was supposed to, and so, um, I ended up, um, withdrawing, uh, from the contract and bringing it over to Wicked House, and, um, they were extremely enthusiastic about it, and so, um, you know, it kind of got put on, um, their, their faster track, and, um, now it's slated for a November 24th release, um, that pre sales. Oh, well, we'll be getting it. Sure. Um, and yeah, the presales have been open for a couple of, through a few weeks now. Um, and, uh, you know, the ARCs have been getting really, really positive responses. So, yeah, I'm, I'm extremely excited about that one. And, um, plus it's also, uh, it's, it's, it might be, you know, it's really hard to talk about like, you know, novels and, um. Once you've written a couple of them, which ones you prefer and stuff, but this one currently, I will say, might be my favorite novel I've written, except for maybe the one that I'm working on right now.

Drema 2:50

That's an ever problem with novelists.

Andrew 2:53

Oh yeah, yeah. Um, but, but no, it's, I have, I have a personal connection to the subject matter, which was really important to it. It was also a book that came out and, uh, with a really driven feel to it. Um, I wrote, uh, the initial draft starting in December of 2020 and, uh, wrapped it up in April of 2021. Um, there was a decent revision stretch that followed, but, um, you know, it was, um, it was a book that kind of was born out of a combination of, um, An interest in some family history, then of course the existential crisis that was 2020. Um, and then, um, it was also one where when I sat down to draft it, um, you know, from the beginning to the end, I more or less knew exactly what was going to happen every step of the way. Um, there weren't any big breaks where I had to work out major narrative problems. Um, you know, I did have a revision where I added some stuff in, um, that kind of filled a couple of gaps in the story, but for the most part, um, it was one of those pieces that had, um. A lot of it come out, uh, formed the way I wanted it to. But then, also, beyond that, uh, January, I do have The Never Born Thief, um, my young adult novel, which, uh, I was really excited to get that one picked up. It was, uh, it was, it was kind of a surprise in a way. So, that, there's a fun story to the publication of that one, which is, um, I wrote it back around 2016 to 2018. Um, I actually wrote it right before I wrote The Mobius Store. Um, and, um, When I created the initial draft, um, one of the reasons I wrote it was, um, at that point I had my, uh, stepson and I had my daughter, Jillian, and my son was on the way, and I really wanted to write a book that, um, the kids would be able to enjoy. You know, as they were growing up. And so that's, that's how it became a young adult piece. But, um, for one reason or another, as I submitted it, um, it, it, it did hit a bit of a dead end with agents. It got pretty far. I had a lot of agents, um, you know, do full manuscript requests. I got a lot of bounces back from, you know, almost, but not quite. Um, and, um, And then when I got into the drafting for the Mobius store, because, um, I was still pretty new to the book submission process, I honestly kind of just paused the submission because I wanted to think about whether or not, you know, I was doing something wrong in my submissions, um, you know, whether or not I needed to learn the market more, there was a lot of things I was taking into account. And so it kind of got shelved until, um, Until I started submitting Mobius Store and Gala Talk, they were actually going out side by side to agents and presses, and both ended up actually accepted in the same month. But, uh, a little while, you know, shortly after that, though, um, I actually had planned to, uh, take a break from book submitting. Um, I hadn't been thinking about the Neverborn Thief, but then I came across, um, a call from a new press. Um, well, technically, it's an old press that was starting a new imprint. And so the press was named Manta Press, and the new imprint that they're starting was, they'd been previously just, uh, you know, an adult oriented horror press, and the new imprint was a young adult middle grade press. And, um, the press was called Olive Ridley Publishing. And, um, the reason why that kind of stood out to me is my son, uh, Elliot is, um, he's seven now, and he is obsessed with turtles. They are his favorite creature on the planet and, um, just that summer, actually, like while we were there on vacation there was when, um, Gala Talk was actually being accepted. Um, but we went to the, um, Georgia, um, Sea Turtle Sanctuary in, uh, Jekyll Island. And, um, so, you know, I saw this press name and I was like, you know, if there's a good home for this book, that's gonna be it. And, uh. You know, so I sent it out and, um, not gonna lie, I actually kind of forgot about it for a little bit, um, because I was so focused on both Neverborn Thief and, you know, if, uh, and of course, uh, something else I'll mention briefly in a second is, you know, I was also writing tons of short stories and sending them out, um, and, um, yeah, so, you know, I was really concerned with that and so it just kind of was at the back of my mind and, you know, a few months later, um, actually just about I don't know, four months ago now, um, you know, right at the beginning of summer, it was actually June, I got an acceptance from Olive Ridley and so, you know, I get the acceptance letter and, you know, um, I don't know the press very well aside from the little bit I researched it and, you know, I wanted to do kind of a polite acceptance but also personalize it a little bit and so. Um, you know, I said, you know, that's outstanding, um, you know, I'm delighted to have this book appear through your press and then at the end I said, you know, some, it's kind of funny what draws people to presses, but, um, all of, uh, Ridley's Sea Turtles are, um, My, uh, my favorite, um, you know, my son's favorite kind of creature and, um, just this last summer, uh, you know, on vacation, we went to a sea turtle hospital and the response back was, um, well, you know, that's pretty amazing because, um, one thing that we've been negotiating is, um, Uh, promotion where we're going to be donating parts of our proceeds to, um, to a sea turtle hospital. Oh my God. Um, and, uh, I was like, Oh, how cool is that? Um, you know, we, uh, you know, we, we, we're, you know, huge supporters of the, um, Jekyll Island Sea Turtle Hospital and is like, you're not going to believe this. That's the one we're donating to. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so, you know, it definitely was like, you know, well, this, this definitely seems meant to be and they've been fabulous to work with. I'm actually, I'm expecting to see a cover any day now. Um, so that's, uh, that's 1 thing I've been really looking forward to. Um, I'll admit. So. Mobius Gala talk. And, um, the last project I'm gonna mention in a moment, um, they all have, um, the same cover artist, a fellon named Christian Tulin, who does just the most incredible work. Um, oh wow. I, I love his covers. He's done the majority of the covers for Wicked House Publishing. Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, yeah, I've just, I've not been disappointed with any of them and he's been a delight to work with on, on both, uh, gala Talk and Mobius and, um, so. I was slightly disappointed not to work with him, but I'm also like really excited to see what another artist and it's uh, somebody I know does really good work as well. So I'm really looking forward to, um, to seeing what this is going to look like because it's going to be pretty different. Um, that's one of those most exciting parts of the process, you know, getting to see, um, you know, the cover and things like that. But, uh, the last thing, the last couple of things I'll mention though is, um, of course, I do have a, um, a lot of short stories that have come out in the last couple of years. I've actually had about 22 placed in magazines in the last, uh, since, uh, March 2021. Wow. That's, that's amazing. And. Yeah, I mean, I'm really proud of it. Um, and you know, they've just kind of gotten better and better and better, um, in terms of the, uh, you know, the, the size of the venues they're being placed in. In fact, I wish I could tell you, but I do have like two really, really good public, uh, acceptances that don't have contracts yet. So I can't make formal. But, uh, I, I can say that's two of my favorite stories I've written are coming out in two amazing magazines that I absolutely can't wait to share. But naturally, pulling together all of these short stories, um, I decided, you know, I kind of got to put a collection together. Uh, I want to get these all into one place. And, uh, it, you know, I, I, I, because I've been really happy with my relationship with Wicked House. Um, I originally did decide to submit it to Wicked House, but they don't really do collections, but, um, you know, the owner, Patrick Ruman, who, um, I've talked to him a lot, he's actually, like, honestly, I can, it's kind of strange because he's my publisher, but I actually consider him kind of a friend at this point, um, you know, uh, he's, he's always, um, you know, open on my, um, my Facebook chat, um, but, uh, Thank you. No, he, uh, he, you know, he said, uh, you know, well, uh, you know, I don't know if we can really do you justice in, um, promoting this. And so he ended up, uh, you know, passing me along to Crystal Lake Publishing. And, you know, they've been around a while, um, you know, good, good decade. And, uh, their, their, the head of the press, Joe Meinhardt, um, absolutely loved the manuscript. And so, um, yeah, um, my short story collection in those fading stars is now, is officially under contract to come out November 2024.

Drema 12:01

Wow. You're on fire.

Andrew 12:04

Wonderful. Well, it's, it's, you know, I'm pushing as hard as I can, you know, um, I, uh, I've been writing a long time. Uh, you know, I, I graduated from Spalding in 2010, did finish my MA in 2006 and, um, you know, for, for quite a while. And admittedly, some of this is that, um, I just seem to be doing better in fiction than I, than I was in poetry. Um, not to say I'm not proud of my. The accomplishments in poetry, you know, I've gotten quite a bit out there, but, um, you know, uh, I, I, I was kind of gradual about it. Um, I didn't really think to push as hard and, um, you know, uh, right now, since there seems to be some legitimate momentum growing, um, yeah, I, I've been pushing this as hard as I can. I want to take it as far as I can because, uh, I don't know that I would be able to manufacture this kind of shot again.

Barry 12:56

Oh, and you know, you have covered so many things that I think are so important for M. F. A. Writers or or people who have got their M. F. A. Because that's one of the goals of our show is to be able to say, okay, publishing strategy strategies. Uh, relationships with, with the people that you're getting your book published with. And if things don't work out, you can, can say, okay, this isn't working. Let's find someplace else. Um, looking for, um, agents to submit to, um, I would be remiss if I didn't note real quickly that the Mobius store for me, I mean, I'm going to say this in a nutshell that gives hopefully nothing away because I think people should really read it. But, you know, the, the, the Mobius door to me was like this, this community that was trying to hold itself together in normalcy. I mean, I, I guess the family, the Bradley family. One of the things I note is, is that the parents are both a bit stern, trying to keep everybody in control, but. That somehow, when evil comes through, it upends all of that, and everybody is changed from it. I mean, not only is it a really tension filled story, but it also delves into some psychological things that really sold me on you, Andrew.

Drema 14:20

No spoilers, please. This is a spoiler free podcast, Barry. Oh,

Barry 14:23

that was all I was going to say. Okay.

Drema 14:25

Okay. But Well,

Barry 14:29

I, I think, I think the, the premise of, of how this starts out with Stewart in the woods is something that is a kid that, like a, a twilight zone or a, a rod sterling, uh, moment, you know, really, I mean, It's awesome.

Andrew 14:44

One of the things I really wanted to do was, uh, to start with that, um, you know, I, I wanted this book to have a sense of normalcy at the opening and then, you know, one of my, uh, one of the reviews actually that I got that I've always been a big fan of just how this was phrased, you know, said something about just, uh, how mind bendingly weird the story gets, um, and, you know, um. If you want to get to someplace like that in a lot of cases, uh, you know, having that normal, um, you know, that really recognizable opening gives you the opportunity and space to make the kind of journey, um, where things get, um, you know, downright bizarre towards the end. Oh,

Barry 15:25

yeah.

Drema 15:26

Since I work in book marketing, I am concerned with getting the word out about your next book, because we're always looking ahead, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, so I was wondering if you could maybe give us a summary of Gullah Talk, and then maybe read a little bit from it for us. What do you think? Sure, sure.

Andrew 15:42

Um, so... Um, Gala Talk, um, I'll actually start off by talking briefly about the title, um, you know, it's, it's, uh, I know it's an unusual title and that was very much by design. I kind of figured, um, you know, it may cause people to furrow their brow just a little bit, um, though, weirdly, actually, one of the first people who came across my ARC is actually, um, Uh, actually checked it out explicitly because they misread the title and they thought it was based on what is the actual origin of the title. Um, so the title is, um, a portmanteau, um, through linguistic drift of the name Gali Otak. Uh, Gali Otok is, um, an island off the coast of Croatia, um, during, uh, communist Yugoslavia. It was, um, the home to one of the most notorious prisons in the region. Um, Gali Otok translates loosely into the naked island or the barren island. And, um, it got the name because it's almost entirely devoid of natural vegetation and shelter. The prison itself was composed of bare bone stone structures, um, with a basically minimal, um, insulation covering of any kind because, um, the large part of the punishment one got while there was the exposure to the brutal, uh, Mediterranean sun. The, uh, the communist government used it primarily as a, um, a political prison, um, enemies of the state and so on, um, of the 16, 000 people who are interred there over the course of its operation, 4, 000 died from exposure, illness, disease, starvation and thirst. Um, so, you know, massive mortality rates, um, and, uh. You know, it, uh, you know, it was, uh, the, the, the water were the walls for the prison, um, didn't really need as much guards for control as a result. So, you know, I mean, it was a truly nasty place. And, uh, my grandfather, um, was an anti communist sympathizer who spread, um, anti communist propaganda. And he also was, um, a smuggler. And he ended up, uh, getting sentenced to, um, Galiotok, um, and, uh, you know, he, he's, I think he served there for, I could be wrong about this. I think it was three years, but I would actually have to double check that. Um, but he did eventually, you know, he made it off, um, okay. Um, but, uh, so yeah, you know, I kind of stumbled across this place as part of my, uh, learning about my family background. And, um, I mean, As soon as I heard about the place, I was like, Oh my gosh, if there's a location that is like destined to have a horror story set there, this is it. Um, but, uh. No, um, Galiotok though is, sorry, Galiotok is set considerably in the future, um, uh, after a, um, nuclear war has taken place, um, and, um, it's, you know, done severe radiation damage to the environment, um, and it's left a perpetual haze across the sky, and, um, it isn't, I don't call this a post apocalyptic book, um, I call it a post reconstruction book because society has significantly recovered. Um, so you don't fall into a lot of the recovery tropes instead. Um, you know, you have a fully functioning government, um, in place. It's, uh, something you see in the book is it is a little bit authoritarian. It's heavily bureaucratic. Um, and it's largely geared around, um, you know. Cataloging things that have been lost and then trying to return, continue restoring places to suitable habitation. And the main character is named Hamel Varka, and he has been dispatched to Galitak prison in order to conduct what is supposedly a routine survey of the island. And cataloging of its contents in response to, um, reports of disturbances on the island from a nearby location. Um, so when he, uh, he's, he's sent there to meet up with the survey team, and as, um, these types of books tends to go, he discovers that things were not as he expected on the island, and, um, very quickly he finds himself in very serious danger. So the portion I was going to read really is just the very opening of the novel, um, It just does help establish voice and tone, and because this piece does have some world building, it's a little easier to process in terms of, um, you know, where we're at in the narrative. So, um, all the titles for the chapters have a three part title, um, that describes something about the content of the chapter. So chapter one is The Channel, The Dock, and Offices. The lantern at the prow lights her way across the channel. It is I. Hamel, my briefcase, and the ferryman. The ferryman chews an unlit pipe as he rows, and he wears a black fisherman's cap with the dead man's hitch emblem on the temple. His face is brine scoured with a, uh, with the scar, is brine scoured with the scar from a badly closed surgery between lip and septum. Fog surrounds us as it is not yet dawn. The stars look like meaningless specks of salt on a black tablecloth. I never learnt my constellations, and my geography is juvenile at best. When I look back over my shoulder, I see the mainland lighthouse still, a distant dot of light on an otherwise black, craggy shore. I had The soft glow of the midway dock. Beyond stands the watchtower, storehouse, the residence, and the official office, whereat I am to rendezvous with Brogden. Until then, the ferryman who only grunted when I introduced myself is my companion. The pipe has slowly rotated under the grip of his teeth. The bowl now turned down. If it ever held anything, it doesn't now. I lean against the stern and dangle my hand to the water. I barely feel the cold wet before the ferryman speaks. Wouldn't do that were I you, he says. Sharks? I ask. The ferryman spits. Jellyfish, he grunts. Blackened. They wrap their tendrils around your finger and you'll be screaming until your next birthday. The many papers the Bureau issued me upon departure include a small leaflet on local marine life. Perhaps I should peruse them. Up until now, I regarded them as a novelty. You've been crossing these waters... You've been crossing these waters long, I ask? I can't tell if the ferryman shrugs or if it's just the roll of his shoulders as he rows. Ten years since I've had a working motor, he says. I'll put in a word for a replacement, I say. This time it's clear the ferryman shrugs. My successor will be grateful I'll be dead before it arrives. Then he fixes his jaw and looks to the side. As a cool wind sweeps and swirls the fog, the rhythmic dip of the oars and the lap of wavelets on the hull absorbs me until a man on the Midway dock, who I presume to be Customs Inspector, hooks the mooring ring and ties us to a post. The ferryman doesn't respond when I thank him, but the inspector takes my hand and helps me and my briefcase out of the boat. On the horizon, first light breaks through clouds like a candle behind stretched silk. Welcome to Midway. The inspector says. He used the motion of brushing himself off to call attention to a badge that identifies him as Customs Inspector Third Class. His bearing paints him a proud man, all shoulders and hips, even though customs at a post where the only destination is an uninhabited island borders on Sisyphean futility. Nonetheless, I should treat him with politeness. Lower officials teeter on the brink of despair. Better, I suppose, than life in the work halls, but that's like saying a chronic cough is better than the flu. Transcribed As the inspector leans his mooring rod against a bench and picks up a clipboard, I check the latches on my briefcase and make sure to scramble the lock. The inspector is tall and unshaven and smells like sour hibiscus, the scent of nearly all petty officials. Name? He says, though he already has it at the top of his form. Himmeli Varka, I say. Place of origin? New Zagreb. Purpose of visit? Inspection of government site in response to a report of disturbance, I say. These are all matters of his knowledge. He, after all, filed the disturbance report. His smug lips indicate he is pleased that the Bureau approved an investigation. He does not know that his report is certainly a pretext, nothing more. Do you have anything to declare? The inspector asks. I shake my head. On site caches delivered in advance with the prep team will supply most everything I need. Brogdon has the rest. Traveling with luggage through coastal checkpoints can be an outright nightmare. An invitation for bribe solicitation at best. I pat the briefcase. Just official papers. May I see them? The inspector asks. No. A light leaves the man's eyes. I knew he'd ask, and he knew I'd say no. I'm higher ranked, our ritual empty, performed so he can feel purposeful. My arrival, the arrival of our supplies, and the arrival of the rest of the survey team are likely the highlight of this decade. He jots a few notes on his clipboard and then extends it to me. I sign his form without reading. Who knows when it will prove advantageous to prove that I was here. Who knows when it can be used against me. I hand the clipboard back. Without further word, the inspector takes up the mooring rod. Helps the pheromone shove off, and then charges down the secondary pier, I assume, to prep the boat, my colleagues, and I will take to the prison as soon as able. All right, that's a segment of the opening.

Drema 25:44

Now we're going to turn this into the audiobook version, because we want more! Please tell me you're going to read the audiobook, right? Right?

Andrew 25:54

No, I'm afraid not. Um, you know, um, I know, at least with, uh, Mobius door. That's actually one thing I forgot to mention is the audio book is on the way through Tantor Audio. Yeah. And, uh, you know, they, uh, that was a really cool process. They auditioned narrators, um, you know, and, um, you know, I got to listen. I had to, you know, approve the, uh, you know, the, the potential narrator for it. Um, and, uh, yeah, yeah. Um. You know, that's, uh, you know, like, I mean, on the one hand, I would love to read it, but on the other hand, it's kind of cool to have someone else do and gets. Oh, of course.

Drema 26:30

Well, and I have to say, I'm sorry, I'm not giving Barry a chance to talk because I have lots of things to say. So do I.

Barry 26:35

Now we're, now we're arm

Drema 26:36

wrestling. You know, I am not. Surprise that your prose is so lyrical considering that you're a poet, but I officially hate you now because you're so good. No, I could never really hit you. Not at all. But wow. Okay. I'll refrain. You go ahead.

Barry 26:54

One of the things right away is, is that, you know, the Mobius door was in third person, a relatively close third person hovering around the characters that we were. involved with most, you know, based on the chapter or the area of the chapter. But that this is a very different first person. I mean, this is all being thus far anyway, filtered through the eyes of, uh, Hamill, it appears, um, and it's, and he's, he has such an, uh, officious. kind of tone. He's kind of calculating. I assume that there will come a point where that will be also upended once he gets. Yes. Listen to that laugh. Yeah. Which was the easier to write or do you just feel that either one you were got into the

Andrew 27:45

swing? So, you know, in a lot of ways, um, I, uh, I, you know, and this, this does come to some extent, I think, from, um, from writing poetry, but, um, I am a very mood driven. Um, I try to write atmospherically. Um, and it's always one of the things that most interests me is, um, the way in which the, the voice kind of marries into the emotional resonance. And, um, so, you know, to an extent, I would say that, um, they were really different writing projects. Um, you know, I, I don't know that it's easy to compare, um, you know, a multiperspective piece like Mobius to a very singular. Um, first person, uh, first person present narration and, um, Gala talk. Um, what I can say is that the decision, um, was one of the few decisions that I don't think I actively really made. Um, I literally did start, you know, when, um. I decided to start writing this story. Um, I did it because the first two sentences of the book came to me. Uh, the lantern at the prow lights her way across the channel. It is I, Hamel, my briefcase, and the pheromone. Um, that was rhythm.

Drema 29:03

I'm sorry. Was that poetry or was that prose? You've melded them together.

Andrew 29:09

Yeah. Um, well, yeah. And you know, um, part, part of the way the voice built out from there was that I felt like, um, Hamill had this really distinctive cadence in how he thinks. Um, and, um, you know, so it's, and it's something that crops up all throughout the piece, especially when he has any moment to fall into reflection. Um, and, you know, he definitely, you know, initially he seems a very poised, officious person and, you know, all throughout the piece to, you know, um, He's traveling with the team, and one of the earliest things you start to see is that many members of his team are clearly interested in pursuing their own agendas and don't really intend to cooperate. And, you know, he finds himself really only having this kind of bureaucratic offician is to fall back on. Um, and of course, sometimes. That's an effective strategy. You know, he's able to use it in ways that give some leverage, but then, um, well, let's just say that, you know, it's definitely not able to overcome some of the challenges he faces himself confronted with. Right. Well,

Drema 30:16

again, we're fighting for attention here. I just have to mention your imagery, uh, just such lingering images and such, I could just almost feel the camera creeping in closer and closer like that pipe and he turns the pipe upside down and then the, the shoulders and, you know, couldn't even tell if he was shrugging. It was just, um, it added almost like a more ominous tone, even just those images were just. Oh, they were just so well done.

Andrew 30:43

Well, thank you.

Barry 30:45

I think the character of Hamill himself is, appears to be very observant, but at the same time, I, I don't know if it's on we or jaded or or just seasoned at this job knowing human nature based on his position, but it just seems so intriguing. Oh, I. Sign me up. I

Drema 31:11

want to read it. Well, and rumor has it that you also, uh, work in art. I mean, as in pastels and pen and ink drawings, that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah,

Andrew 31:19

quite a bit. I've even, I've even been, like, I did my first convention, uh, this last weekend. And, um, I actually did for the first time bring some of my pen and ink work there for display and possible sale. So, uh huh. Oh, wow.

Drema 31:35

So do you think that feeds into your work as well or no?

Andrew 31:39

You're right. So I, I will say I haven't done a whole lot of art for the last three or four years. Um, because I have been Exclusively focused on writing, but, you know, 1 thing that I, you know, 1 of the reasons I like to bring the pen and ink work with me, or, you know, I thought it was a good idea and I'm going to continue with this. Um, if you were to take a look at the pen and ink pieces that I display, um, they, uh. Are black and white on pure white paper. There's no sketch work done in advance. Um, I don't, um, you know, I don't sketch on separate pages either. I literally start with the blank page and start drawing with the pen. And, um, I also pursue a very fine level of detail. And, you know, I do think, um, Especially when it comes to creative stuff, especially that I do have something very meticulous in my nature. Um, and, uh, you know, I think it speaks to both what I'm creating in the pen and ink, but I also think it's reflected in my attention to language and voice, um, you know, just thinking about the opening chapter, you know, you mentioned the images and, you know, one thing I worked very hard to do was to cast a lot of the common images in a way that's going to reinforce the ennui. So, you know, you get, um, um, You know, you get things like the stars look like meaningless specks of salt on a black tablecloth. Um, yeah, you know, um, what was the other one? Uh, I see the main, you know, when I look back over my shoulder, I see the mainland lighthouse still a distant dot of light on an otherwise black, craggy shore. I very intentionally am phrasing images in a way that's going to keep reinforcing that mood and voice. Um, but you know, I mean, I, I'm sure to some extent is something I pulled from, um, from working in poetry, but, um, you know, I think it's also, you know, I, I, I'm, Decreasingly separating, um, my idea of poetry versus prose. Um, you know, I want to bring the same level of attention to detail and pacing and so on to, uh, you know, to both mediums. And you do it well. Yeah,

Barry 33:51

it's, it's precise and, and, uh, luxurious. Tell us about the never born thief.

Andrew 33:59

honestly when I wrote that, you know, keep in mind of course that this is the first. of the three novels that I wrote. So, you know, the Mobius store hadn't even been started when I drafted the beginning of this. Um, Gala Talk was years off. Um, but, uh, you know, at that point though, I was predominantly writing poetry. Um, I wrote One, well, I wrote two novels before all of these, but you know, they're terrible and they will never see the light of day.

Drema 34:28

We all have those around.

Andrew 34:29

Oh yeah. Yeah, I call them learning experiences. Yes. But, uh. But no, um, you know, I had written, you know, two novels. One of them, um, was a piece of, I, I guess, literary fiction. It was kind of absurd and postmodern and, um, you know, like retrospectively, I don't think it's actually really a terrible book, but, um, it was really derivative off of a lot of things I was reading at the time and, uh, like too derivative for me. And so I ended up shelving it as a, You know, just something that like I wrote very quickly. It was like a three month project that turned out to be like 225 pages. Um, and, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's one I might even, you know, that's one I may look back at in the future date and see if it's salvageable. But, um, the other one was a 700 page monster of a horror adventure novel, and it's terrible, you know, and. Like, there's cool things to it, you know, it's not like I feel like I wasted my time, but I had a lot, I had a lot to learn about storytelling, about line writing, um, you know, the whole shebang, um, but, uh, so, you know, when I sat down, you know, I was like, you know, um, you know, I've got, you know, we've got a busy household, you know, my, uh, like now my stepson's 17, my daughter's 10, um, my son is 7, and then my, my, my wife has, uh, another child that's 22, um, but, uh, yeah, you know, So, I was like, well, you know, they can't enjoy a lot of what I do. They can't appreciate most of my work. So yeah, let's, let's try to write a, um, you know, a young adult book. Um, and that coupled with, um, one of my big interests in, uh, young adult books was some of the books that I grew up with, which is, um, things like The Hobbit, um, You know, uh, Wizard of Earthsea was a big one. Um, and then, uh, Watership Down was another favorite of mine. And one thing I like about all three of those books is that all three of them are targeting towards, I think, a younger audience, but they also do have significant darknesses in them. Um, that they, you know, they're, they're mature enough to ask real questions and expect, um, you know, real attention out of their audiences. And that was the kind of thing I really wanted to set out to write. And so, um, the one that I kind of seized on the most, I think, is probably Watership Down. Um, one of my favorite parts of that book is the way it, um, oscillates back and forth between the more, um, You know, the more traditional narrative of the, the, the rabbit characters, but then also this delightful folklore and mythology. Um, and so, um, when I wrote the, uh, the Neverborn Thief, that was, uh, why I chose a YA fantasy piece, because, um, I really wanted to have the opportunity to try to come up with a folklore, and in this case, it, um, it happened that I had this idea for, um, the story of, uh, a young boy. Who wakes up in the middle of the night to find out that his shadow's being stolen. Um, and then he's, uh, compelled to pursue the thief into the Shadowlands. Um, a place entirely populated by shadows and not, um, you know, uh, casters as, as they're called there. You know, people who live in the world of lights. Um, and... You know, part of the reason for, you know, part of the, the intention behind it was by kind of creating this new world, um, that was at least tethered to our own. It allowed me to really focus though on building, um, culture, places, um, an exotic feel to it as well as an underlying folklore, religion, and, you know, and mythology that would drive the functioning of this world. And so, um, So yeah, that's, uh, that's kind of the core of it. And so yeah, you know, that also kind of wraps up the premise. Um, you know, uh, Conor Brighton is the protagonist, um, and, uh, he's right about 12 years old and, uh, he lives with his, uh, Um, his widowed, uh, mom, who, uh, unfortunately is forced to spend the significant majority of her time, her evenings working. So, um, Connor is often left to his own devices and, yeah, one night he, um, has gone to bed and he, uh, wakes up to find a shadow stolen.

Drema 38:44

Perfect. And you know what we're going to ask next, would you mind reading from that for us as well?

Andrew 38:50

Yeah. Sure. Sure. Sure. So. Um, I actually did think about this one in advance. Um, and I'm going to read from a little bit into the book, actually. Um, because, uh, you know, I want to. I think the, the real substance of this piece is, uh, comes out of the mythology and, um, the way in which this, this, this world has revolved around, um, these stories and characters that reflect their values and existence. And so 1 of the, um. A couple of the distinctive things about the Shadowlands is, um, there isn't any actual food there. Um, Shadows don't need to eat, um, but they do need, um, well, they don't need to eat to survive, but they'll still starve. So, um, you know, they can eat Shadow food and it helps give them a little bit of strength, but otherwise it's not sustaining in any way and anybody who enters the Shadowlands will begin a process of wasting away. Um, and, uh, Also, um, it's difficult to enter the shadow lands. Um, the only ways that people from the world of the light can enter there is either if their shadow is all or partially stolen, or if they give up or trade part of their shadow in order to enter. Um... And, uh, the story describes that as fairly destructive to the self. Losing one's shadow is akin to losing oneself in the narrative. That's one of the first things you learn when, uh, the theft, when Connor encounters the, the shadow police shortly after his theft. Um, but, uh, Yeah, so, um, a little while later, though, into the book, um, Connor has, um, attempted to pursue the thief. Um, he's linked up with a couple of people who may or may not be able to help him, and he finds himself in a rundown shelter, um, in the only town that he's been able to come across, and, um, He, uh, overhears a mother talking with her children, um, about, um, about telling stories. And so, chapter eight is entitled, Basket and the Flower Petal. Um, and, uh, the mother asked the kids what story they wanted to hear, and this is the one they asked for. Once, the mother began, there was a little shadow named Basket, who didn't know from where he came or to where he was going. He survived by collecting bits of the trash and, sorry, bits from the trash and fashioning them into other things. He would find a metal disc and a piece of twine and fashion a pendant, trim a piece of torn cloth into a bandana or a handkerchief, or cut bits of colored rags into flower petals he'd stitch together into dull blossoms whenever he could find thread. One day, he was poking through the refuse scattered outside an arena in the city of Kiln, just after the crowd had left when something amazing caught his eye. It was the brightest color he'd ever seen, poking out from underneath a wad of newspaper. He had never known purple could be so bright and vibrant. His heart beat hard at a mere glimpse of it. He snatched it up quick as he could and held it in his palm. It glowed like the sun it was so vivid. It was shaped like a teardrop the width of his thumb, thin as paper, though far softer. It was a flower petal, but not the type he made from rags. Though he'd never seen one before in the Shadowlands, he knew this one was a real flower petal from the world of light. How it got outside that dirty arena he couldn't say, but it was the most spectacular thing he'd ever seen. He couldn't believe his luck. He knew if he rushed to the bazaar, it would fetch the biggest trade he'd ever made. Indeed, he knew just the trader who would offer well for such things. However, As he walked towards the market square, gazing at the petal in his palm, he couldn't take his eyes off this thing of beauty. He kept tracing its edges with his fingers, feeling its softness, wishing some part of its loveliness would rub into his skin. He might never find something like this again. If he traded it away, he'd forget what it was like to hold something so precious. The urge grew for him to keep it, to protect it. By the time he reached the gates of the bazaar, he knew he loved this beautiful thing too much to part with it. So, he turned and hurried home. There he sat three days, staring at the petal, still tracing it even as his fingers tore and frayed the edges. The first day, the color started to fade, and on the second, it was a pale imitation of its former self. The purple dulled and brittleness replaced the softness. On the third day, as he sought its softness with the gentlest touch of his index finger, the petal crumbled into dust and blew away in a draft that came through his open door. He had never cried harder in his life. When he'd calmed down, he spent the rest of the day imagining the beauty of the petal, trying to fix it in his memory. He pictured it again and again, thought about its tiny weight on his palm, what true softness felt like. For weeks as he returned to collecting and fashioning scraps, the image of the petal served as his constant companion. He wished to it at night when he had no one else to whisper to. He found himself drifting back to the arena, hoping he'd find another. Then the memory too faded. Within a few weeks more, it was just like the way the petal had withered in his palm. The memory of the petal barely formed at his command, and when it did, it was fleeting. He wandered the arena aimlessly for days at a time, poking into the piles of remains, staring off across the ground. He grew so tired and hungry, his hands couldn't fashion trinkets, and he could barely remember how to get back home. Finally, he took a seat outside the arena gates, and never got up again. He watched the shadows come and go through the gates as if one of them would drop another petal right in front of him. They say you can still find him outside that arena and kiln, still so long that people think him made of stone. All right. All right.

Drema 45:06

Take all my money.

Barry 45:09

I think, you know, we should have booked two hours, right? There's so much to cover. We've covered covered the Mobius store. We've covered these two. Gala talk and, uh, the never born thief. It's just The, the breadth and width of your writing in such a short amount of time. The only person, I mean, not, not writing wise, but the only output person I can think of in comparison is how much Stephen King seems to have rolled off his, his page. Well, I guess Isaac Asimov did a couple hundred books, but that's, that's, that's beside the point.

Andrew 45:49

If I could write full time, I would. Um, and, uh, you know, that's something that, um, I do see as potentially within reach, though I'm also in the process of looking for tenure track jobs, which would be just as good if you ask me. Oh, yeah. But, you know, I mean, for the, for the time being, you know, um, I've spent, you know. It seems like I've got a lot coming out, um, but the truth is that, um, you know, each of these projects, um, has been the result of considerable planning and prepping, um, you know, the Shadow Thief, for example, sorry, I made the mistake, the original title of the Neverborn Thief was the Shadow Thief, uh, we decided to change it because it's more accurate to, um, The villain of the narrative. Um, but, um, but no, um, you know, that book took a good couple of years to write. I actually, this is the 1 piece I've written that I gave to beta readers. Um, I actually had, um, some friends who had children who were great readers and, um, I asked, uh, if. They would be willing to share the book with them, so I could see how the target audience would receive them. Um, but, uh, you know, I actually made some revisions based on their feedback. Um, and, uh, you know, I mean, really, it was a good two year process writing this one. And, you know, um, as my interest in folk, in creating a folklore led me into researching world folklores, which is part of where the Möbius store came from. I was reading about Croatian mythology and I stumbled across the character of Veles, um, and he's just, you know, him and his counterpart, Perun, are a really fascinating dyad that's, um, overlaps so heavily with so many popular figures from world mythologies that I got really interested in these sort of analogous and parallel evolutions of folklore. Um, so that's kind of, you know, Mobius came from there and that led me further into family history, which brought me to Gala talk, but, you know, like. In the process over this last year. Um, like I said, I started writing short stories about March and publishing short stories in March 2021 and, um, a little ways into that process. I started, um, I started really focusing on absurdism and started increasingly bending towards science fiction. And, um, I ended up writing a short story that was originally called Zero G Folk. Um, and it was, uh, you know, kind of a quasi military piece set in or in orbit. That's, um, Uh, traced, um, kind of a soldier who was fa who was, um, in a combat engagement with an enemy he'd never seen and didn't even know the nature of, um, the enemy largely attacks him through, um, through, uh, telepathic means. Um, and you, it basically, it fights by confronting him with his worst memories and then also twisting them so that he's more of a villain in them. And, um, so it was this little short story I wrote, um, and I sent it to a lot of magazines and, um, had some close, um, but no cigar, uh, responses from some really cool places and, um, I decided to sit down and really try to figure out, you know, what was going wrong with this piece. And, um, you know, part of it was that I never really was satisfied with the ending. Um, and so I kind of started tinkering with it and, um. You know, I, I realized that this piece was, uh, probably needed to be a little longer than it was. And so I started a new treatment of it, um, and found myself on a trajectory towards, you know, something like 80 or 90 pages. And at that point I was like, okay, so what am I really doing here? You know, what am I really pointing out? And, you know, I revisit, you know, I, I revisited that treatment and, um, I ended up deciding to, um, kind of say, okay, what if this is actually only one third of the story? Maybe if the, maybe the problem with the ending is that the ending really is only a pivot point in the plot. And so looking at it that way, I was like, okay, so now this is, um, this is on track to be, uh, you know, 220 page story. Um, and, you know, I started tinkering with that and um, yeah. You know, sure enough, um, you know, I'm at the one third point or the, what I projected as the one third point and I'm at right around page a hundred. Um, and you know, basically like the process was the, starting with, I, I think I started this right around, uh, the turn of 2022, right? You know, um, 20 21, 2, 20 22. And um, so I sat down. Um, so starting then, um, up until about two weeks ago, um, you know, I basically had engaged in a primary drafting of a novel. Um, I've just finished the main draft. I'm starting to get into the revision process. Um, I do have one chapter I need to compose. Um, I know it goes, um, between chapters, uh, two and three. Um, and it fills in some character relationships that, um, were invented later in the, uh, a little bit into the composition of the book. Um, but, uh, but no, um, so Uh, you know, people are seeing the news that I have and they're like, Oh, wait, you're just finishing up, you know, a new treatment, another, another novel, you know, how have you found the time? Well, it's like, okay. I mean, really though, I've been starting, you know, I've been doing this for what a year and 10 months. Um, so, and alongside this, I, I've laid the groundwork for two more novels. Um, so, you know, I have, um, uh, sort of a, um, Kind of a cave folklore novel, a cave, cave based horror that I started charting out and then I have a kind of an arcane horror story as well that I'm working on, too. And, you know, these aren't in composition yet, though. I'm just taking notes and drafting ideas, um, you know, and I have a folder where I keep adding material. I'm building an outline, um. The outline will go right the hell out the window when I start, but, you know, having the, having a structure in mind does make a big difference to some of those early decisions, but, um, you know, so. Like it's, it's, in some ways it's like, it's like the illusion that I'm producing as much as I am because I don't expect to finish those two books until, you know, maybe the end of 2025. Oh no, it's, it's more that, um, you know, I mean, this is MFA payday, right? You know, how we're establishing pacing in a career. And the answer that I give. people is that, you know, I've, I did an interview at the university not too long ago. Um, cause I did start my, my job search last year and I came really close on one place. And, um, you know, one of the questions they asked me was, you know, where do you, you know, what do you see yourself writing in five years? And, um, my exact, you know, I was like, okay, no, this is, this is what I have planned for five years from now. Wow. That's excellent. You know, um, I had a couple of projects that I'm shaping up. that I anticipate getting to in about four years. So by the time five years rolls around, I'll probably be actively creating them. Um, and you know, I figure the ideas eventually when I get older are going to slow. Um, you know, um, I can't assume I can keep this kind of momentum. So, you know, while I have all of the brainstorming going, I'm going to chart out as much of a course as I can, you know, maybe I'll diverge from it, but, um, you know, if I want to pitch things to people and talk about what I'm doing. It's such a difference to be able to say, well, you know, right now, these are the things I have slated for release. Um, you know, this is what I want you to look at. Um, and this is what I'm planning to do surrounding that to make sure that it's a success and this is what it's going to lead to. You know, presses seem to like that. Um, yeah. That's excellent. And, you know, hopefully it, you know, hopefully it's going to turn out pretty well in terms of how audiences receive it. But, you know, that's a whole nother, whole nother monster.

Barry 53:42

Well, let me just say that first off the book that exists already out is available. Everybody listening to our podcast, get, get, get the Mobius door, uh, pre order Gala Talk coming out in November. For those of you who have why a level people young people. The never born thief is coming out next year. So make sure and grab hold of that and go to Andrew Nyberg dot com to learn more. So Andrew, we just want to thank you for your time. My goodness, we've covered a lot of ground in a less than an hour. Really? Absolutely.

Andrew 54:25

One thing that, uh, I've been setting up and it's about to start is, uh, I'm putting together, I've been putting together, uh, um, a reading series. Huh? Um, the first event is, um, October 21st. At, um, 8 p. m. Eastern, I believe. Um, and it's, uh, I, I am directly reading in the first couple of events. Um, so for this first one, um, I'm reading with the other horror, with two other horror authors, Blaine Daigle and, um, Will Gray. Um, so it's 8 p. m. EST. Um, and, uh, Blaine Daigle is the author of The Broken Places, which has really taken off, and he's going to be previewing his new book, A Dark Rue, which comes out mid November. And then Will Gray is going to be reading from his horror novel, The Devil Within Us All, which came out about two months ago. Um, there's going to be, um, another reading in November. Um, That one is with myself and Will Gray, but we're adding Andrew Van Way, the author of Head Like a Hole and Forsaken, and to it. Then, um, we'll have, I'm just now shaping up a 3rd December reading, um, a 4th one for January is already completely locked in and then a 5th and 6th are coming in February and March as well. Each each reading will folk will feature three readers. Um, I'm only doing the participating directly as a reader of the first two just to help launch the series and get it moving. Um, but we've got some amazing names participating, you know, people who have some best selling authors, um, you know, people who are really, um, you know, actively being talked about a lot. So, um, if folk want more information on that, the best way to do it is to actually hit me up on Facebook. Um, either. That's where I saw it. Yeah, Andrew Nyberg is my name on Facebook and then Andrew or at Andrew Nyberg. Author is my author page on Facebook. Um, the event is, is actually set up through, um, at Andrew Nyberg author. So you could check it out there if you know, say if you're interested in going and so on. And the zoom link will also be available. Oh, wow. Perfect.

Drema 56:30

Thank you so

Barry 56:30

much. Yes. And we will definitely spread the word because I think it's a A good time is guaranteed for all who love that genre which I'm in that boat. So there you go. Outstanding. And we, we thank the listeners. I mean, we hope that everybody's enjoyed it as much as we have. And until next time, keep

Drema 56:49

writing all the things.

56:52

We Wish You a Merry Christmas