Father's Day Panel with Special Guests Zac and Bob Ep. 281

Welcome to this Father's Day episode of Strong Dads! Before we jump in, we want to say Happy Father's Day to all the dads out there! Thank you for stepping up and leading your families well. 

In this Father's Day panel episode, Andy Dalton hosts Zac Strobl and Bob Bracken. These fathers are in different seasons with their children and families. Bob has 3 adult children and Zac has 2 elementary age children. This makes for some good conversations about what has worked well to lead and disciple our children and what challenges these fathers have had. 

Thanks for joining on this episode! If you want to learn more about Strong Dads or Rock Solid Families, go check out their website: https://www.rocksolidfamilies.org/

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Welcome back to Strong Dads. I'm Andy. I'm sitting here with Bob Rackin and Zach Strobel, and we've got an awesome show for you all about leadership and discipleship in your home. And we've got experience from a father who's got adult children, correct, Bob? Yep. Adult children about to get married, your daughter? Mm-hmm. April, yeah. Congratulations. That's awesome. And then we've got experience in the middle of it with young children. Elementary school age, yeah. So this episode is full of wisdom from different venues. And so uh if you are a father in any stage of your life, I think we've got something for you here. Or if not, if you're uh an older father, maybe you can listen to this and then pass down this wisdom to a mentor, somebody you know, uh, a Barnabas, if you're uh Paul like that. So we would love for you guys to stick around. Um, and we are also thanking you, fathers. We are dropping this the day after Father's Day. So we want to say thank you, fathers. Happy Father's Day. We really appreciate you guys. Uh, thank you for listening to the show. Uh, if you could share it, if you could like it, rate it, uh, Apple Podcast Spotify, or if you're on YouTube, uh, you know, if you can like it and subscribe, all of those allows us uh at Roxal Damns and Strada to continue to put these shows out along with our sponsors, uh, Quality Automart, Casey's Outdoor Solution, and Hebron Grill. So, guys, thank you for tuning in and hope you enjoy the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

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SPEAKER_05 2:15

I'm here with Bob Racken and Zach Strobel. Bob, how are you doing? Good, thank you. Thanks, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Thanks for being here. This is awesome. And Zach, how about you? Doing well, Andy. Uh recovering from that bike race we did this past weekend. Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:28

So we we went down to Kentucky, rode 44 miles on Saturday, 43 on Sunday, and uh yeah, my legs are still feeling at the time of this recording. It's only a couple days afterwards.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

And so I was pretty exhausted. That's why you need an electric bike, guys.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Oh, come on, Bob. Come on, we don't do that here.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

When you're 60 years old, you might consider totally different areas of uh well, guys, thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_05 2:57

We are gonna be talking all about leadership and discipleship in our homes. And what I wanted to do and bring both of these guys on is I've got two seasons of life here. Uh Bob, how many children do you have?

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Three. You've got three, and what are their ages? Uh boy, girl, twin, uh 24, and then a 19-year-old. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 3:16

So you're, if we're looking at the seasons of parenting, you're in like uh the friendship age of parenting. Like maybe advice could be given to your kids, but um, you're no longer serving them, uh leading them, maybe some mentorship, but it's like they're kind of doing their own thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah, I mean, yeah. Okay. Pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:37

And then, Zach, how many kids do you have? Two. You've got two in what ages? Eight, six.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

About to be nine.

SPEAKER_05 3:44

Vastly different stages of life here. But so our month-long theme at Rock Sod Families is leadership and discipleship. So for strong dads, we wanted to really see, like, all right, these uh these dads and these men here, uh, what did you guys do? What are you doing? What lessons have you learned that you could share to the men who are listening, or wives, if you're listening for your men, and you want to share this, I think that would be awesome as well. But before we dive on into it, we'd love to thank our sponsors. We want to thank Quality Automart, Casey's Outdoor Solution, and Hebron Grill. Um, and as this is dropping, we want to say happy Father's Day to you, fathers. And so we thank you guys for everything you do. And we understand uh the mission of Rocksaw Families is to strengthen our communities one family at a time. So the stronger that our our families are, the stronger our communities are gonna be. So, fathers, we want to thank you and uh keep doing a great job. So, all right, before we get into it, I want to ask you guys one question. What is there a problem, or what is the problem with leadership within some capacity, homes, communities, uh, something else? I want to see what is your guys' thoughts on that? Is there a problem? What is the problem? We can shoot it off either one of you two.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

I think what I've seen is if there's not two parents involved, you're really doing a juggling act. There's really importance to the father and then the mother. And uh, if one of them is playing both rules, rules, that that can become very difficult. Um and if the father, and I don't mean any disrespect, but if the father isn't leading the family, isn't the one that's he has to be he has to be involved. And uh I think it's just so important to have that involvement from the father. Yeah, and there's always gonna be, well, I shouldn't the mother is very important too, don't get me wrong, but the the the father part is is so critical. I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_05 5:42

Yeah, it's just coming from I I taught for 10 years. Um you could see uh within interactions which children had both parents in the home and which didn't. Um and we just did an episode about uh leading your family as well, even through divorce uh with a family judge. We posted that um uh a week ago from when this is dropping. And so for you guys, if you are wondering about that, go to all rock side families YouTube page and you can find that. That's a really good conversation that talks a lot about what you're saying. Zach, what do you what about you? What do you think?

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Yeah, so I'd go back all the way to the original kind of mission of strong dads when Merle Hutchinson started it all, was he experienced a lot of families through the school system where the dads just weren't present. And I've personally seen that as well. It's like when when the dads are not actively disciplining their kids, supporting their kids, showing up, uh, it has a long-term effect. And, you know, I've even seen men in their 70s tear up to this day because their dads didn't show up in their lives. And so it's such a long-term impact, and it's just such a critical role. It's the most important role I've ever had in my life is being a dad. Uh, and so next to being a Christfaller, of course. But it's you know, that it's so very important. And I'm in my seasonal life, just trying not to screw it up, honestly.

SPEAKER_05 7:04

So no, that's good. And there's grace, man. We're all gonna fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3.23. But uh, I want to say this too. I agree with you 100%. And uh, we're not just hammering uh uh this men's here episode. We've got a woman on mission who leads, who's got a leadership discipleship one. That is going to be dropping as well. So, guys, stay tuned for that one. Um, that one is gonna go hammer from the women's perspective and the mom's perspective. But I do want to say this you had said, you know, the mission that Merle had. Uh if you guys are first-time listeners, the mission of strong dads is to equip, encourage, and strengthen fathers and all men in the ways of Christ. And so what you just said was is biblical. It's what we were meant to do, what God planned for us and what Christ has charged us to do. And so thank you for bringing that up, Zach.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yeah, and I like that how you said Christ's follower. Um, it's one thing I've learned is if you got to make God the center, you know, it's it's God, spouse, and then kids. And if you mess that up in any order, if you put your kids above the spouse, which a lot of spouses sometimes do, you can't do that. You have to work as a team. So if but if you if you surround it around God and then then respect each spouse, husband and wife, then you go down to the kids, and it's so important. No, that's a really good point.

SPEAKER_05 8:22

Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah. So, all right, we're gonna dive into this now. Normally, what we would say is leadership and discipleship are gonna go hand in hand, but for the sake of this conversation, I kind of want to wanna piece it apart to start off with, right? So, Zach, I'm gonna go with you uh and I'm gonna come back to you, right? We're talking about leadership here. What makes a good leader? Right? Or give me somebody in your life that showed up as a good leader that you wanted to model behind.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Uh I'll go back to what's biblical, and that's to lay your life down for your friends or for your family, or uh to love your enemies. And you know, Christ modeled it when he washed his disciples' feet. It's like he took he took the lowest role in his society, in his culture, and said, I'm not above you, I'm I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do this. I think he's the son of God. I think he's the son of the king. Now we're we're all we all have that invitation to to be part of that family.

SPEAKER_05 9:23

No, that's really good. Uh Christ, even the Son of Man, come on this earth not to be served, but to serve. And I I reference that a lot. This is like what I think you guys, I don't know if you know this, when when Jesus washed the feet of the disciples, he knew Judas was gonna betray him. He knew that, and yet still looked and washed his feet, humbled himself to that point. And so there are people like, I'm not gonna wash their feet, I'm not gonna go serve them. You know what they've done to me? Christ did it. You bring a really good point. If he did it and he's the best man of all time, I think we've got something there to follow. But go to you, Bob. Um, give me a leader who showed up in your life in a big way, or what makes a good leader?

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Well, I think it's important not to mix leadership up with management, because if you trust try to manage your family, that's not what she said, leadership serving, that's that's key. And I didn't learn that until much later in life, probably after kids, quite frankly. Um, growing up, I never tossed football once with my dad, but um I did have one important mentorship in my freshman year of high school. His name was Frank May. He's passed a few years ago. He was a great mentor to a lot of wrestlers at LaSalle High School. And he he uh he actually sent, we had probably one of the best teams in the 80s. He's we sent five guys up to state, and that wouldn't have happened without him. And and for four years, I had him as like my, I don't want to say my dad, but he was there as like my dad. And uh he helped uh give me some structure, discipline, um, purpose uh in high school. It's so important. It was important to have purpose anytime in your life, but in high school is a critical moment. And and I felt purpose as each year I got better and and ultimately made it to state my senior year, and that was a big accomplishment because I never wrestled a day in my life prior to high school. And but he was a he was a great man, Frank May was. And um, and I thank God for him because I'll probably be in jail. It's just you know, it's one of those things where someone, you know, the Holy Spirit puts someone in your life that you need at that moment, and in high school, that that's what I needed. Yeah, that was gonna be my next question. So you're kind of touching on that.

SPEAKER_05 11:36

You said you never threw no no no, you're good. I wanted that you've never threw football with your dad. So my question is how how were dads in your life, what were they like? And it sounds to me like was he just busy, was he not around, just not involved, passive.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

I remember mentioning to my mom how, man, I wish dad would do, you know, I could do more of that or something, or something along those lines. And my mom made a very important statement to me that really resonated with me. She goes, she took she said, Well, he may not have been there for that, but he he's he's a great provider. And he was. He he worked at Ford Dealership, Ford uh Motor Company as a foreman. He went and to work from three, didn't come home till six. I mean, he really, really worked hard. He was a great financial provider. So he really didn't have the energy and you know, for the kids, and we had six kids. So um, and um, so I when she said that, that really helped me a lot. I'm like, because I think, and I look around, very few of people uh of my age or uh a lot a lot of people didn't have that relationship with their dad. So I think what made it different was I wanted to be different. I wanted so I literally tossed football with my son every single day at the bus stop. We tossed baseball. It was easy with my first son, and they were twins, boy boy girl twins. It was a little harder for my daughter in terms of she found dance, but my youngest, five years younger, it was hard to find what he wanted. And he and and but it's amazing how different ages of the kids can really make a difference on how you you treat them. All three of them were very different, even though they're boy-girl twins, they were still very different.

SPEAKER_05 13:19

I joke around if you've got multiple kids, you've got to be schizophrenic in your parenting because you can't parent any of them the same. You've got to like shift in this way, and oh, I gotta paint that. Yeah, so exactly uh same question done to you, right? Uh, what does it look like for your father in your house? And uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

So I'd say, you know, my dad was very present. Uh he was big into baseball fishing. Uh we rode bikes, like, which probably not a shocker to you anymore. Uh so uh he was he was very active, right? Um, but it was also very hard. So, you know, it was hey, you just pitched this game and you you messed up, like I was gonna hear about it a lot. And um, and so there was he would constantly challenge me, which in the long term helped, but uh there wasn't much else um besides like sports, and he was kind of later in life to his faith, and so you know, I was kind of watching him in hindsight develop in later years, um, and he was just and he was primarily a new Christian, right? And so it's like he was learning as he was getting older, and and I think you know, by the time and he passed over when I was 23, but uh by the time I was that age, I was just off being dumb. And he was maturing, and and so I kind of missed out on like him being a mature Christian. But uh, you know, I it's just kind of interesting that kind of watching his life progress and then learning things about him later in life, and and those things kind of make more sense now that I'm older. Uh, but nonetheless, he was he was present and he tried. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 15:06

Zach, you brought up a great point. Well, I remember when I was when when my son I was teaching, I I I coached him pretty much all through grade school, baseball, basketball. And I'd always give the you know, the quarterback armchair, hey, um, you know, you did this wrong, you did this wrong, you did this wrong. And after about so many times of doing that, he finally I could see he was being really quiet. And I'm like, what's going on? And then he took him a while, but he finally opened up and said, Dad, you you never tell me what I do right or what I do good. And yeah, and that I'm like, oh man, that hit me. I'm like, you're right. So, and I think Jesus even mentions this in the Bible. You always start off with saying two good things and then go into the critical things. And um, and so he taught me a lesson there, and I tried to keep that with me, especially when they're young, because when they're young, they don't always open up to you like that. And it gets worse when they're teens. They if you don't establish that when they're young, when they become teens, guess what? They're probably not gonna open up to you. And and and even worse when they're in their 20s, which they are now. And but luckily they've we've established that trust, that relationship where because I never had that with my father. I never really talked to my father. I mean, again, I I talked to him, he was there, but he's you know the deep stuff you're talking about. Yeah, right, right, right, exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_05 16:29

No, I get that. That's really big too to be able to have that relationship with our open. Um, and both of you guys uh you know hinted on it a little bit, talked about having uh, you know, other people in your life are modeling what your dads did for you. Uh I don't want to go into what you would do differently, because that's gonna be after our commercial break segment. Because I do want to say, like, all right, if you could change, or would you do it? That would kind of lead into advice for our men's and men and dads who are listening. But Bobby, can you look back and say, like, okay, I really I'm glad that I did this as a leader and I spent specific time. You spoke on it originally, like, I'm gonna throw baseball with you, right? Um, or football, and I'm gonna make sure I toss with you and build that relationship. What about leadership? What did you do like specifically? And you can go back and say, I'm glad I did this.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Well, I can think of one specific with my youngest, because what she said earlier, yeah, you have to do be a little bit of schizophrenic to deal with different kids. And I had uh my oldest was my daughter, my second oldest was the my twin boy, and then my youngest, he was the hardest to figure out what to do. I um, you know, a boy who wants to play football and baseball and track and coaching, that that was actually pretty easy and pretty fun. Yeah. Um, being involved with my daughter and her dancing and and singing lessons and piano, that was good too. But then my youngest, he was a whole different child. He he wasn't really into the sports like my other boy was, and that became difficult. So at an early time, I got him involved with things like the chess club, and I would be involved with that. I'd be uh uh, you know, helped lead that um and did that for a few years. Um, then finally came later in the grade school, I said, all right, I gotta do something else. And um I started running this tennis tournament over at Coolica Park. It was about a hundred kids we got involved in it, and I got my older kids involved, and um, we had a bunch of volunteers. We did that for like about three or four years, and I passed them on to the high school to try to keep it going. But um it was pretty significant took a lot because trying to manage manage a hundred kids, uh tennis camp. Um, and um so that was the things we do for our kids.

SPEAKER_05 18:43

Yeah, he was involved with that too. Yeah, yeah, he had fun, he he felt yeah, yeah. Yeah, being aware of the different ways that your kids can respond is really crucial for dads. Um, how how my oldest daughter will respond to my voice, um, if I'm yelling at her, how I'm going about her, how I'm pushing her is vastly different than my son. Uh, and then our three-year-old daughter, she's just learning all this stuff. So, all of these different pieces, like you've got to be aware as a father. A good father is like, okay, I can't just force this because that's what I know if it's not best for them. So, how do we do that? But Zach, to you, you know, you're in a different season, you're in the middle of being a leader for your kids in your home. Yeah. What is the goal that you are trying to do as far as being the best leader you can? Right now, you're in the middle of it. My aim is this.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

A, be present, but be model behaviors I'd love for my kids to pick up. Oh, that's good. And uh that one's tough because that's you know, you you get home after a long day, and that's your you're you're trying to relax, and you know, especially when the kids are young, they're just they're wild and they don't they want to play and and all kinds of stuff. And so I, you know, I I quickly like with my son, I we go wrestle, right? Like that's that's what he likes to do. And uh my daughter, sometimes you know, she throws in too, but uh she it's different, right? It's um she'll she'll talk more, uh, she'll she's interested in like reading and uh crafting and things like that, right? So it's you know just kind of kind of making sure I'm I'm spending time with both of them and then being better about teaching them things. Like I want them to learn more about the Bible and and who Christ is, and uh and they they're picking up stuff, and so they a lot of things I'm telling them they've they've heard at some place, whether it's like Sunday school or uh preschool or something. But um, it's interesting. And then my wife, of course, is doing that too. But uh that that's the big thing for me is like teaching, modeling, and honestly, just try not to screw up, like because we're we're so many faults, and I don't want I I'm just waiting for the day where I see one of them do something I've done. Um not probably. Oh, it's gonna happen anyways. I'm just waiting I'm just waiting on it.

SPEAKER_04 21:11

I'm like, oh gosh, it's coming up.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Oh yeah, paybacks. Yeah. You made me think of something I think one of the best things I can remember at an early age. I mean, that and this goes from when they were born to enter their teens, was just uh during sports, and it was really perfect when the the boy girl twin, I could coach them at the same sport at the same time. We could drive together, we could drive as a family. My wife would come, I mean it was a total family unit. It was it was really, really good. Um, and then what I noticed is later when those two separated and um uh when we were thinking about select sports, I'm like, I tried it for one year. Actually, I I quit in the middle of the first year of it. Because I saw I'm I'm just I'm taking my one son and separating from my wife and my daughter and my youngest boy to take him. And and I felt a lot of separation there. So I thought, let's bring this back. Let's just go back to TCYL baseball local and we'll just keep it like that. You know, because he's not going to be a superstar. He's not going to make, you know, he he was a very good player, but um, it was more important that we kept that family unit together up until about eighth grade, and then high school started. But I I see a lot of rough things happen when people do the select sports and they separate that separates the family.

SPEAKER_05 22:37

Or even even makes them the center of the family. Like I see a lot of people their sports are the center. Like they can use now, we've got this going on this day, and we've got to travel here. Like they make vacations around sports, they make budgets around sports, they make time, like every single thing is around. And I don't know if it's because the kids want it, so the parents say yes, because the kids want to do it. Well, there are only a kid once, whatever the case is. I would highly, highly, highly, highly, highly say, now that is not the way the family function unit should go in a healthy way. Uh playing sports, yes, our healthy college football player here. Like I know this, but it comes to a point where, like you were saying, is it causing division? Is it the focal point? Is it our identity? So uh, and that's something that if you've got questions about, please reach out to us. And we'd love to spend some time to see if if if it is healthy enough for you and what it could look like moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

But and and just driving together too when you're in that those younger ages, because that when you're in a car, you're you you've got a captive audience. And so, as much as I could, I'd say, honey, you got to do this over here, and I got to do this over here. Why don't we drive together and we'll bring uh laptops, books, or whatever? But let's try to do stuff together. It drove her nuts. But I felt it really brought a lot of unity to our family unit when we could be in that car together and just be talking. And we do make a make a point to try to do a family vacation every single year, even now, now that they're in their 20s. Adult kids, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 24:03

Well, last one before we go into a commercial break, I want to ask about discipleship. And I know that there is some overlap here. Um, and I know that that is our goal. Our goal, if we're leaders, we're also uh discipling our kids as leaders. We're modeling it, as you said, Zach, um, being aware of how we can model these differently. But I want to say, you know, as we what makes a good disciple, because I know you've said it multiple times, Zach. You know, I we're all flawed in some way, going back to Adam and Eve, but how do we try to give our kids the best of us so that they don't pick up some of our flaws? But we've got to have grace too. Like we all fall short. We are going to screw up in some capacity. So, going back to that question though, what makes a good disciple? Right? And or how do we know if we're hitting the mark? Like, you know what I mean, for you how in your mind, what makes a good disciple or what's hitting the mark?

SPEAKER_02 24:56

So when you say that, to clarify, are you saying disciple of Christ or like us as leaders or our kids being good disciples?

SPEAKER_05 25:03

Like, disciple of Christ. Like what makes generality makes a good disciple of Christ? Is it Paul? He makes it as Peter, even though Peter said multiple dumb things, right? Is it, you know, what makes a good disciple? And how do you know if you're hitting that market for us in this day and age?

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Yeah. That's a good question. I would say, A, are you are you modeling behaviors that you're reading about in the Bible, right? Like we we kind of hit on some of this and the greatest commandment being, you know, love your God with all your heart. No, and then love people, right? Like, are you are you showing love to people? And and I think, you know, your your kids see how you are interacting with other people. And one of the things that Andy and I have been doing is, you know, we start a rites of passage group where, you know, we're bringing together men who are we would consider good leaders, uh, who want to take their right now, it's their boys, and we might add our daughters into this, but uh and model behavior, but not just that, like I want them to see other men who are modeling good behaviors as well. And none of us are perfect at all. Um, but I just want them to see what I want my son to see what other men, good men are like, um, especially because he does not have a grandpa. Uh so it's you know, it it's interesting, right? And so I'm intentionally doing those kind of things, but what is common about all those men is like they're all very active in their kids' lives. Um, they they go to church every Sunday, they they pray, they they show up, they say things that are biblical, right? And so it's like you want to see like someone's character, look at their fruit, right? Like what fruit are they producing? Every single one of those men is like an active dad in their lives, and all of their kids respond well to them. And if they weren't like that, I would say their kids would not respond the way they do. Um, so that's that is what I've observed. Um, and I've seen, you know, men in their later years like who are still around their dads, like they want to be around their dads, right? And so that that to me is like one of the tests as well is do your kids actually want to be around you?

SPEAKER_05 27:21

It's a really good call, and that's something I desire as well. Um, yeah, and and for that rites of passage, you know, I want to just approach on that for a second. One of the things I think we miss out in our culture, like if you look at other cultures, right, um, in other countries, there are marked moments in young men's life when they know they've transitioned into manhood, right? Uh, you know, go to some extreme, here's a spear, you can't come back in the village until you kill a wild boar. But once you do that, the community surrounds you, there is a celebration, a moor is held on to you because you're a man, you're not a young boy anymore, you're not a child. Uh, and there's this mark, so you can clearly look and see, I know, and for us in our culture, what we graduated high school, that means you're a man. You're 21 and can buy a beer legally, that means you're a man. I don't think those are marked moments in a son's life. And so what we are looking at is how can we make sure we don't miss that mark? And our goal is to be able to create something to pass on to other men. Like if you want to make this marked a moment, can we give you some sort of a template, a tool that you could put in your own capacity and then say, all right, son, let's walk through this. You will know you're a man at this point, right? So that's what we're doing and hinting on that. That's something we want to drop later on. But anyways, uh, last one before we go to commercial break, same question, right? What's what makes a good disciple? And how do we know if we're hitting that mark?

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Well, I like what you said, Zach. Uh church is very important, and um, trying to integrate that can be a challenge. It's easier when they're young, much harder when they're older. And I'll get back to the rest of that in a minute. But you also hit on another good point um in the Bible. What did Jesus say? The two greatest commandments is to love God and love others. And if you break that down in Galatians 5, there's the nine fruits of the spirit. And in Corinthians, there's the nine gifts. So if you can try to master the nine fruits of the spirit and fruit is actually singular. So it love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, uh, knowledge.

SPEAKER_05 29:19

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

And if you it's no one can master them all, you know, got only God whose love can master all those things. But what we try to do as humans, we we kind of actually start at that opposite end. And when I read the Bible for the first time, which was when I was in the 50s, I noticed the very last one was self-control. And what did Solomon ask for? The richest man in the world, he asked for wisdom. And that's the first gift of the spirit. And if you go through the gifts of the spirit, wisdom and self-control, I believe, go hand in hand. And I believe those nine gifts and those nine fruits actually match up pretty well. But um if we can, if you can try to establish that as a parent and have your kids master whatever fruit, you know, there's always gonna be a fruit we're all gonna be missing out on. We're not not gonna do so well on. And people say, Well, I'm a loving person. Well, love is is not a feeling, it's an action. All those things are actions. Love is an action, joy is an action, peace is an action, all those things are actions that are not so much feelings. Um, and then when you mention church, I think that's so important. Um, it's easy when they're young. If you don't establish that when they're young, going to church. Um, now we were fortunate when we grew up. We grew under up under the Catholic faith, both me and my wife. I started falling away from it because I wasn't, I didn't feel like I was getting much from it. So I probably wasn't a good role model then. But um then um I was invited to a men's Bible followers group in 2010. And this was while while my kids were a little bit older. And that really set me on a trajectory of being involved in many other groups, going to church twice because I had to tell my wife that I'm gonna try this non-denominational church and go to the Catholic Church with you to respect her and the kids and say, and I'm not even gonna tell the kids, you know. But eventually they decided, well, we'll try to. So we we all started going to non-denominational, and we'll still, you know, go to the Catholic masses here and there, but um, nothing against any denomination. Um, they're all wonderful, and um, I thank God for the foundation that he gave me in the Catholic faith. Um, but the supplement that I got from the non-denominational churches, much bigger messages. Um I think that's important. And that's one more thing to add. So my daughter finally in college, you gotta be careful. Uh, she started going getting involved with a Bible group, which made me excited. And then my son, just the other day, when he told me, Hey dad, I'm I'm going to church, my 24-year-old. I'm like, really? And without me having to prod him or send them a reminder. And um, so yeah, it makes you feel really good when you're when your kids finally just kind of start doing that stuff.

SPEAKER_05 32:04

You're not dragging it because you're going. But to go back to what you're saying, too, about the fruits and gifts of the spirit, right? That is because of him flowing through us, right? So it says uh in the Bible, I don't know where the scripture verse is, that our bodies are temples for the Holy Spirit. And so when you say mastering that, I think that is surrendering to him to work through us for more of those fruits to be displayed in our lives. Uh, because we are broken human beings who fall short, and we're not gonna master anything, but I but him working through us, that is where I think that surrender of his fruit can go flow through us. So that way, like, because uh what are we? We're afflictions of the Son and the Father, right? So if we do anything good, that ain't because of me. It's because of him and his. So when we say his fruit coming through us, it ain't because you did so hard on being joyful. Nah, it's because, like, Lord, I want to be joyful as you look to him. He says, Okay, here you go, boom. Now my fruit flowing through you is a glorify to him. Yeah, which is really good to say. So, yeah, guys, we've got a couple things we want to come after this break. We want to talk about how we can apply the lessons learned from Bobby, you and your adult children, and how we can apply them in our life right now, like you're doing, Zach. So, guys, uh, we're gonna take a break now and thank one of our sponsors.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

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SPEAKER_05 34:21

Welcome back to Strong Dance, guys. So we spent the first half of this podcast talking about uh what leader looked like in Bob Zach, your guys' life, what a good disciple kind of made. And then we're really gonna get into the practical nitty-gritty of it. But to recap too, some of the things you had said to Zach's kids need to be shown how to do daily things. They need to be modeled prayer by having and hearing our dads pray. They need to learn what service is by watching our dads serve, right? They can learn humility when dad makes mistakes and apologizes. Um, but then as well, like your awareness that you had spoken on, Bob, of like, I need to be aware that my kids each need something different from me. Uh, and I can't treat them all the same. And so I really appreciate your guys' wisdom here as we jump into this. And so I do want to say this before we get into the challenges and practical takeaways. I think some of us in our culture think it's somebody else's job to disciple our kids. So, right? Uh it it was what church is for, right? I dropped my kids off at Sunday school. That's that's what VBS, you took your kids to VBS, right? That must mean VBS Bible Schreckation Bible School is who's supposed to disciple our kids. No. That I would say, if we're looking at it from this, I've heard somebody say this. That would be the um, that would be the vegetable to the main course meal. That would be the appetizer to the entree. Yeah. Your entree is who who's the main source supposed to be discipling your children, Zach. My wife and I.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

That's yeah. That's who. Uh and then secondarily, grandparents, right? Uh family, and then friends. That's also why we're building that rights of passage group. Yeah. Is I want the my, in this case, my son, to see other men modeling good behavior, right? And so, or Christ-like behavior. And so that that to me is why we're doing these intentional things. That's why we gather our families and and show them, like, get our kids interacting with each other and those kind of things is uh, yeah, the church is fantastic at, you know, teaching supplemental information. You know, my kids went to preschool through Bright Christian, right? So it's like, you know, they they've heard, they've been brought up like hearing about the word and all that stuff, but then it's like, you know, not and I'm in education, it's like you can you can hear content all day. It's applications what really matters. Can you apply what you just learned? And so, and that's what our kids need to see is like first their parents, and that's who they're gonna learn from the most, is like how are our me as a dad, my wife as a mom, like how are we applying what we've learned in church and through reading the Bible and through all these podcasts and content that's out there? It's like it doesn't matter unless you're exhibiting fruits of the spirit and and using your gifts for good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 37:21

Uh somebody else said too, like, uh Sundays is a pep talk, it's a rally, it's a locker room talk. We're here together, like, all right, guys, yeah, and then we need to go out and go do it. Right. And and whatever message, like, oh, that's great. Yeah, and then and then we'll go out and we go apply that. Uh somebody else said too, it's not um uh big bam flashy moments, it's consistency, not um uh I forget what the word was, but uh consistently doing it out of everyday moments. So for you, same question. Like, what what do was your thought growing up? Did you want somebody else to disciple your kids? Did you take it upon you and your wife's job? Like what was what was it growing up for your what you and you were for your kids?

SPEAKER_01 37:59

That's a great question, Andy. And um, and I think Zach hit it on the nail with uh it's so important to have the the father and the wife act as a team. And it gets really hard when that those children become older because they'll the either the children will try to divide you or not try, um, and unintentionally divide you, or society, school, the church. Um if if if you take one thing away and uh from all of this is um you God has to be first. And when I say God, I don't mean the church. I mean God. And when I say God, I mean God's word. So I didn't read the Bible for the first time until I was in my 50s, and and man, do I wish I would have started earlier. But I think God had a reason for that. And so if you learn from God's word and God's lessons in the Bible and understand the Bible, because that's why where it's important to go into men's Bible study groups and understand well, understand the content of the word, because it's it can, especially the Old Testament, can be but um so if you do God and then the father or wife, husband, and then kids. Now, where I would throw the church in there is at that level with the kids and the church or a level below, because the the church is um is you gotta be careful because there's so many different churches out there, and you still want to be involved as much as you can and know what's going on and what that content is and what's going on. But um uh and I think too, that's a good point because we are the church.

SPEAKER_05 39:40

Yeah, we are the body of Christ. Wednesdays, whatever, like and so when you say that hierarchy, so because I I know people, and and when I did a residency through church planting, they're people who will have it in their own homes, yep, because that's that's where they meet. There are people who will step into homes to have a meal and a cup of coffee that'll never step into a church building. How do they get to know the love of Jesus? That is his word, right? We open this up, we gather around a table, living room. Uh, anyways, uh, I love that point of action. And so, okay, now we're in the practical takeaways and the challenges. And so um, this is where uh, you know, if you guys had some challenges or like, I mean, I struggled with this. For you dads who are listening, uh, we're kind of wrapping this up. We've got about 10 minutes left. What is it you want them to know, right? Whether, hey, I struggled through this, but I was able to work it through here, whatever the case is, right? So um, either one of you go first, I'm kind of laying this softball, tossing it up. We're sitting here.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

I do like what she said about humility. Um, one of the most important things was when I would tell them I'm wrong, not only to my wife, but to my kids. If I was wrong about something, it was so important that, and and I wasn't afraid in certain situations, if you know, I I would cry to the point, I am so I was so wrong, I'm so sorry. And I think that humility was very important, and it showed to them that, hey, we all make mistakes, we all we you know, can you forgive me? Absolutely, and when you show them that humility, and the other thing outside of that is I've always treated my kids a step up in terms of I've always treated them like adults, and to the point that made sense, you know, you obviously hey your nine-year-old drive the car here, here are the keys. No, but um, I've always treated them a step up as like an adult. And um, now that they're adults, I sometimes still treat them like children to a sense, because you know, yeah, you got children, yeah. My adult children, I sometimes will help navigate things still, and kind of good that I do, but I'll you know, so I I think they're always gonna be our kids, but I'm to the point where we feel like okay, we can be friends now, but um, they're still our kids, and I think it's still important to sometimes have that safety net form when they need it. I I know people have a freeze for that helicopter parent or that, but you know what? You you you you if you're not involved through the process, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:17

It uh No, that makes a lot of sense that that humility is really big. I appreciate that. You bringing that up too, and being able to model that for your kids, as you had said so well, Zach, modeling and what that looks like. Because I did not um I did not see a ton uh I had great modeling from my dad, but I didn't see a ton of apology and ownership and being okay with saying I did this wrong. And I think there was something else to say along that because everybody's got some background, but that is huge, right? Um, Zach, challenges um that you are facing um or something you would do differently.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

I would just say uh probably again, it's like I'm I I don't want to see my kids to see my my worst side too often. And and there's definitely been times where uh I've I've been very frustrated with my kids, and I I tell them like I do apologize, and and because my I don't recall my dad ever apologizing. Uh maybe later in life when I was in you know my 20s, but uh I I do apologize when I screw up. Um I do want them to see that, but I would just say, you know, there's plenty of times where they they see a side of me I really don't want them to see, and that, you know, that that's when I'm frustrated or angry, or just uh, you know, we maybe somebody is around us who I'm like I'm very frustrated with. I just want them I'm trying to I'm trying to be a good model, but um yeah, I I would just say that they've they've seen me get angry probably more than I've wanted them to, is what I'll say.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I I think that's an important time to. And then I we all do that. I know I'm very guilty of that. And I'll try to at a later time say, hey, I I handled that incorrectly. Yeah. I'll apologize in that sense. Hey, I treated that person wrong, or I treated the situation wrong, or what have you. And it's not always an apology to them, but it's an apology on how we handle the situation.

SPEAKER_05 44:20

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:21

No, that's good. So okay. If you're speaking directly in Frank to men, that's one thing I want to say too. I'm I'm uh, you know, as we're we're wrapping this up and we've talked about awareness for our children and what they need and modeling it as best as we can, being humble to apologize when we fall short. As God says, we're gonna fall short every single day. Uh, but that's our goal, is a daily act of repentance and turning back to him. Uh and his grace and mercies are new, not so that we can sin, but because he knows that we're going to. Yeah. Not so much he loves us. So we're speaking frank, and this is one of the things I would say too. You you gotta, you gotta speak frank to your kids. You've got to lead them uh as well as you can to the point of like, listen, I know I'm gonna fall short, but I'm gonna do my best. I'm gonna talk straight to you, I'm gonna be honest, I'm gonna be a man of integrity, uh, and I'm not gonna go and beat around the bush because uh it's gonna hurt your feelings. Uh I'm gonna validate your feelings, but at the same time, sometimes you've got to get over that fact, right? So we're speaking directly to the man, we're speaking frank right now. Um, what are you telling them? This last little thing we're taking away. They're leading their families, they're discipling their kids. Guys, what do we want to say?

SPEAKER_02 45:30

I would say I'll I'll I'll jump in right. Sure. Just get in the game. Uh, because that's I mean, for a lot of us with sports backgrounds, I mean you can you can practice all day. You can you can watch film or videos of people doing what you want to do, but you need to go do it. And so I I feel like a lot of dads, they they're not trying. Uh and so it's and for whatever reason, right? You know, people have things come up in their lives and you can come up with a thousand excuses, but like excuses aside, like you you have to be a present dad. Like you have to try. And you know, whatever it is that you have to work on internally first, like take action on that. But don't wait. I mean, just if you if you're feeling guilty hearing us talk about being present in our kids' lives and you don't feel like you're present in kids' lives, then do something about it. Like, don't just don't just listen to us. Um, and we're not perfect by any means, like you're hearing about our screw-ups too. But uh, I I would just say for me, it's like it's a huge priority to be around my kids, and I really want to be a good dad. And I don't want to be the reason, like, I don't want to give them excuses that their dad was XYZ later in life, right? Like, I want them to think back and say, like, oh, I I did have a good dad, right? And so I'm I'm thinking very long term personally, and I would encourage others to do the same as well.

SPEAKER_05 47:01

I think what you said was the reason why some dads won't. They're afraid that they're gonna screw it up. And so if they are just not as actively involved, they'll have less of a chance to screw it up. And I would rebuke that as much as I can. Uh, your kids need the best of you. It is not always going to be pretty, it is not always going to be amazing. There are gonna be times when we break things, throw things, yell when we shouldn't yell. You name it, we're gonna screw up and fall short. But the kids still need you. And so if you have that vulnerability, please, please, please step up, pick action as exit. I think that's huge. Uh and I promise you, kids are gonna benefit from whatever you can give them, even if it's like, I'm not giving them hardly anything. It's better than you not giving them anything at all.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Yeah, being uh bold and brave is so important, and that's why it's so important to not be afraid to tell your kids you're sorry. Don't be afraid to cry in front of them. Believe me, I've had my share of both. Um parents have to be like a rubber band. You have to be able to stretch, and and but you what you don't want to do is break it, and you don't want to break your kids. And the the um um so when you stretch that in love and truth and grace, you it's it's it's it's um and you want to keep things humorous, you you want to be able to um um but um the um I kind of forgot my point, but the um you want to be a good role model and just uh you want to walk the walk and not just just talk it. The kids, you know, they can see through that. And um that had another point there that I kind of lost, but I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_05 48:41

You're good, you're good. So, guys, uh we want to thank you for listening to this. And if you remember it before I'm done, let me know. Again, happy Father's Day to all of you fathers out there. Yeah, we really appreciate you guys listening on this. I appreciate Bob, Zach, your guys' wisdom and what you guys bring, each of you uh different what you bring in, which I love. I love being able to share on the different experiences from different fathers at different seasons of life, uh, adult children to kids in the middle of it. Uh, last thing we want to say, uh, what you said, um, Zach, James 122 says, be a doer of the word, not a hearer only. Guys, don't just listen to this, oh, this is good content, this is good stuff, and then stash it away for something else. Like we want you guys to pick, even if it's one thing, it doesn't come by accident. Being a good father is not accidental, it's intentional. And so pick one thing, go after it this week. And if you need help with that, get in a group with other men. Zach said it, uh, we need other men to do it. We're a part of it within our rites of passage. You have uh, you know, men that you're working around with within a Bible study yourself. Um, there are plenty of other ways. We've got men that we've got that we're trying to connect and hook up with, uh, who do Bible studies on Tuesday nights at Willie's, who who do like every other uh Friday and Saturday, uh all these different things. And so, guys, if you have questions about how to get in community with other men, please reach out to us. Rocksawfamilies.org is our website. You can email me, Andy at rocksawfamilies.org. You can go to our Facebook page, um, connect to us somewhere, or you can call our office. It is 812-576-7625.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Um if I could end with one one verse from the Bible, sure. It's the Malachi. So the very last verse, and this this really struck me, in the Old Testament, it's uh from Malachi, he will turn fathers' hearts to their children and the children's hearts to their fathers, or he will strike the land in total destruction, which tells me if we're not brave and bold and take these steps and step out of the boat, God's gonna strike our land. And he almost did here recently. So, and and luckily things you know are getting turned around. But um, yeah, so be bold, be brave, and and step out of the boat. Just like Peter did. Yeah, you never know to step out of the boat.

SPEAKER_05 50:53

Powerful birds is powerful. Yeah, so keep your eyes on Jesus so you don't fall in the water. I'm not kidding. Out on the waves, guys. Thank you. Thank you. We want to thank our sponsors one more time. Quality Automark, Casey's Outdoor Solution, Hebrew and Grill, and we want to thank you guys for sharing, listening, and watching. So we appreciate you. Guys, have a wonderful day. Go out there and be a strong dad.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 51:23

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