Nancy Guthrie Case: Was the FBI Shut Out?

Was FBI Blocked in the Nancy Guthrie case?

FBI Director Kash Patel - criticizing local officials over their handling of the Nancy Guthrie investigation as the Pima County Sheriff’s Department responds to growing questions.

In this episode, I interview retired homicide detective Chris McDonough shares expert insight into missing persons investigations, law enforcement procedures, investigative strategy, and what may happen next in the case involving Savannah Guthrie’s mother.

McDonough helped share insight on several major cases including JonBenét Ramsey and Elizabeth Smart.

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Transcript

0:26

Sheriff Nanos breaks his silence in the Nancy Guthrie investigation after claims that he wasn't working well or including the FBI. Sheriff Nanos talking to local reporters there in Tucson, breaking his silence since the whole controversy surrounding his office and whether or not he included the FBI in the first 48 or kept them out. So, you're going to hear those interviews and we're also going to break down the police speak. What is he saying? What isn't he saying? I have a special guest on the program, a former CSI Cheryl McCullum. She's going to help break down these interviews. But first, do me a favor. Hit the like, hit the subscribe, and share this episode with a friend. Now, the case of missing Nancy Guthrie. Here to help break it all down and make sense of the latest interviews with the sheriff, we have Cheryl McCollum, CSI, Zone 7 podcast host. And it's out now, folks. So, I'm going to have all the information in my show notes. Swans Don't Swim in a sewer. It's the latest true crime book endorsed by Nancy Grace, myself, everybody else. It's a fascinating read, but we'll talk about it at the end. First off, nice to see you, my friend. Nice to see you, too. I tell you what, I love what you're doing. Well, thank you so much and I'm looking forward to seeing you at Crime Con. But let's talk about the Nancy Guthrie case. Um, we've hit a sad day. It's day 100. Um, with no information. Um, sadly, you know, Nancy is still missing. We don't have much information. What's your overall thoughts where we are in the case right now? You know, I think having Mother's Day come and go was kind of a hit for everybody involved in the case, especially her family. You know, I think that, you know, we're hearing some things that the sheriff has made some statements and I just I I'm not loving it. Yeah. You know, recently it was a post on social media after the Cash Patel interview on the Sean Hannity show that we'll talk about. Uh he was radio silenced for a while and then he posted this um saying that he was working closely with the FBI that they were part of it from the beginning. But uh he has since broken his silence and I wanted to play for you. some of his local news reports and then kind of help me break down the cop speak. What is he saying? What isn't he saying? And what sticks out to you. So, we're going to start with the first one. And this is from Kun to speak with the Puma County Sheriff Chris Nanos about where the investigation stands today. Mother's Day was not the same for Savannah Guthrie and her siblings. Sheriff Nanos says it weighs heavy on him and his department has not stopped looking for her. every passing second to that family probably seems like a 100 days. So, yeah, there there's a lot of stress there for them. Um, but they just need to know that we're not giving up. Despite FBI Director Cash Patel's criticism on how the sheriff's department handled the investigation, Sheriff Nanos continues to say they work very close with their FBI partners. We're focused on solving a crime and we have a a great relationship with the FBI from day one and actually before day one. We belong to a task force um with the FBI have for decades. As many wonder why it's taking so long to find Nancy. Sheriff Nanos wants everyone to understand why the DNA process is tedious. DNA is not just something that can identify a suspect, but it's also a tool equally as important to exonerate those that are innocent. He admits that some information is being withheld. I've got to protect that integrity of the case. It's not that the sheriff is trying to hide something or be secretive. It is about if if whoever it is that did this when we make an arrest that individual has the right to a fair trial. Video footage is still a big key in this case. That video of the individual on the porch generated a lot of leads for us and we're still working those leads and we'll continue to. Um but we're not done. At what point do you consider it to be a cold case? when we are at all dead ends. There are no leads to follow. There's no We've run out of all of our evidence. Sheriff Nano says calls to the tip line have slowed down, but remains hopeful the call to break the case open will come eventually. I've just got all the confidence in the world. This case will not go cold. We will we will resolve it. Not going to go cold. He's going to resolve it. He's going to solve the case. So, what what' you hear with We're going to break this down, but what' you hear with that last bit? you know, he said a whole lot of things and said nothing. I mean, come on. I'm going to hold it close to the vest. Um, you know, I believe that we're one phone call away from breaking this case wide open. Uh, DNA is is critical. I mean, to me, they're just almost slogans. This is what happens when a law man becomes a politician. He literally, if you break down what he said, gave no new information, provided nothing that the general public could do to help. Again, I've been saying he could give a call to action. What do you need people to do? They're willing to do it. I mean, that's one thing I will tell you. People are so extraordinary. If you say, "Go look at your Ring camera," they're going to do it. Have has anybody seen this orange van? They will make it their life's mission to find that van. If you say,"Can you share this poster of this missing child?" they will do it by the millions. So, by him never giving the general public a to-do list tells me a lot. That to me tells me where they're focusing and where they're not focusing. And I have a feeling, and I'm just going to say it, that they're just waiting on the DNA. That's all they're doing. They're in a holding pattern. They're not out there beating the bushes. They're not looking for her. They're not telling people out on horseback or ATV or cause country travelers, people out camping. They're not telling them how to look for her and what to do if they find something unusual. They're not. He's not really sharing a whole lot. And he kind of went radio silent for a while. But um before we get into um the FBI and all of that, him talking about that, I I do think that you might you might agree with him on the fact that you've been saying that this case is not cold since I've been talking to you about this case. It's not cold. A cold case, we don't even consider a case cold unless it's three years old. You have to have no more leads, nothing new, nothing else to test. They still have things to test. They still have leads they're tracking down. They still have people calling in. This is not a cold case. It's not where we want it, but it's not cold. And you know, uh, he came under fire and kind of went radio silent um because of what Cash Patel, the FBI director, had said on Sean Hannity. And let's play that and refresh the audience, and then we'll kind of talk about what he just said in that that news interview. In the Nancy Guthrie case, I'm I got frustrated because I knew from my sources they were trying to keep you guys out. They did. They did keep you out. And look, here's here's how matters in an investigation. The first 48 hours of anyone's disappearance are the most critical. And here's how these cases works. It is a state matter. It's a state and local law enforcement matter. What we, the FBI, do is say, "Hey, we're here to help. What do you need? What can we do?" And for 4 days, we were kept out of the investigation. And when we were finally let in, Sean, look what we did. We went in and got the Ring doorbell and we said, "Hey, is anyone talking to Google?" I called the leadership at Google and I said, "Look, we know that there was not a subscription service to capture all of the data that would have been captured had there been a subscription service. But can we go into the cache? Can we go into the deep data before it's deleted and see what we can find?" That's why you have that image because the FBI worked with Google to put that image out. Another thing we asked to do, you guys got that tape which was the biggest breakthrough during that case. We could have gotten it days before. We could have also maybe gotten more data. Okay, so that's what Cash Patel said and then it prompted that really long response that we already put on the screen, but here it is and I'm going to read it. Sheriff Nanos responded to the scene the night of the incident, providing immediate local leadership and oversight. A member of the FBI task force was also notified and present at the scene working alongside personnel. The FBI was promptly notified by both our department and the Guthrie family. Why the Guthrie family? Uh while the FBI director was not on the scene, coordination with the bureau began without delay. So now before I get your response, let me play again that portion of the interview where he says everything is fine. Mother's Day was not the same for Savannah Guthrie and her siblings. Sheriff Nano says it weighs heavy on him and his department has not stopped looking for her. Every passing second to that family probably seems like a 100 days. So yeah, there there's a lot of stress there for them. Um but they just need to know that we're not giving up. Despite FBI Director Cash Patel's criticism on how the sheriff's department handled the investigation, Sheriff Nanos continues to say they work very close with their FBI partners. We're focused on solving a crime and we have a a great relationship with the FBI from day one and actually before day one. Okay. So, what's going on there? What's what's not being said? Well, both those things can't be true. And here's the deal. You don't have to look any further than the press conferences. A, they've only had a couple and both times it didn't look like the FBI was carrying the lion share. They have not been on the same stage in months and months. How many times have you seen the FBI put out a statement and then the sheriff put out a statement and they're not adding up? You know, the sheriff says, "Oh, the uh ransom notes are true." And the FBI says, "Well, we haven't said that any of them are authentic." Oh, the family's been cleared. We hadn't cleared anybody. Um, you know, we we think she's still alive. We're working this as a homicide. I mean, again, get on the same page for heaven's sakes. It's not that hard. But there's just got to be, you know, communication. It's got to be open. It's got to be a two-way street. But you got to let them in. Because here's the reality. I can't imagine you or I having a loved one missing and at any time having local law enforcement say we don't need the FBI. You don't need the FBI. You don't need somebody like Marino Connell or Jim Clemente. You don't need them. You don't need a profiler. You don't need an evidence collection team. that is rapid, quick. You don't need them. Okay? You don't need people that have some of the best training, the best equipment in the whole world. Okay? Then where's my mama? Because we're a 100 days in this thing. And you, Sheriff, have produced nothing. So, let's stop talking about what you don't need and let's start talking about what you do need. Number one, you need the general public. If she's located, I guarantee you it's going to be somebody that just happens upon wherever she may be. If you're telling me you don't need profilers and you don't need equipment and hey, here's the other reality, sheriff. You don't need any money because the FBI's got that, too. I it's it's mindboggling to me and it's it's sad in another way because I don't think we would be a 100 days in this thing if you would let them come and really be part of the team immediately. And and let me just put it this way if I can. Matt, um I mentioned Marino Connell a minute ago because I've had the good fortune of working a case or two with her. Have you ever played a sport or danced with somebody or whatever it might be where that person was a professional? It's different, ain't it? It's different. For example, I played high school volleyball. The first time I went to the Olympics and saw that sport, I didn't recognize it. That ain't how we played it. So, you weren't there at the Olympics as an athlete? No, they shouldn't have let me watch it. No, absolutely not. But I mean, like the spike serve, we never did that. We didn't jump 470 ft in the air. I mean, it was just a different level. So, to me, anytime you can have the best in the world help you, how in the world do you not say, "Okay, because here's the other thing he's doing. By leaving them out, all the criticism now becomes, well, y'all ain't doing it. Y'all ain't solving it. What does that do to the morale of his people that are very bright, very capable, have solved hundreds of homicides. You're hurting them. Now they have to go home and have friends and everybody else make fun of their boss. That's crazy to me. That shouldn't happen. And you know, you've been critical of the lack thereof of a proper call to action and grid search in the area. you've been boots on the ground in that area, but you've also been critical about the fact that or questioning uh involvement of the family. It's it's really interesting that he um brought up Savannah and the family when they haven't appeared side by side in any news conference either. And it was Savannah that was making reference to the latest developments that we found out about like the the doors that were allegedly open and things like that. Normally, when you have a family reach out to a kidnapper, somebody's with them, right by their side. We hadn't seen that. We have not seen Savannah and her siblings share a stage with the FBI or the sheriff, much less both of them, which is what should have happened. That's what you expect to happen. Like there should have been. We are one accord. We are a full court press for our mama. You haven't seen it. You've had Savannah and her siblings, then her brother, then Savannah alone. They should have a liaison that helps them navigate and choreograph this whole thing. But, you know, there's been some missed opportunities to me to really show what law enforcement is capable of doing. And it just hasn't happened. And you know this because of all of your expertise and all the trials that you've covered and everybody you've interviewed. When there is no communication, all you're going to do is feed these conspiracies. Everything include now she's starting a new game show. Well, wonder what that's about. Oh my lord. This was in the works probably a year ago, y'all. It's not anything sinister. It's her doing her career. And I mean, again, the sheriff, in my opinion, is to blame for that. You can't stop talking to people. You just can't. Yeah. And with that, you know, I will say as a broadcaster myself, I mean, that'll be something that'll be recorded. It won't be live. If she has to find out about news, if she has a breakdown, which you probably aren't aware of or seeing, um, it won't air because it'll be edited. And then also, you know, it's probably a one little moment where she can actually forget about the reality of her missing mom because it's going to be a fun experience when she's recording that. And she deserves a little bit of levity in her life when she's living this nightmare. A true nightmare. Amen. And at what point do any of us I mean I have children. I would want them to get on with their life. Go on trips. Go have babies. go get different experiences that are going to elevate your life. Don't sit there and worry about me every five minutes. I mean, that's not fair to them. As their mama, I don't want that. So, I can only imagine Savannah's mama doesn't want that for them either. And if you've got this opportunity, take it. Take it. Absolutely. Well, you're very sweet. And I'm going to air at the end of this episode what Savannah posted over Mother's Day weekend, that latest video. Actually, let me air it right now because I think that there's a clue in this that I wanted to get your take on. Miss you. Look at me. Lost and weary traveler searching for the way to go. Okay, so two things stick out. The music obviously was a selected choice. Um, they're searching they're searching for answers, but with all of the criticism with the siblings, she made it a point to include them with photos of the mother. She has from day one said, "We are together. Basically, we're a team. We speak as one." She even said, "We are all freeing a million dollars." Now, most of us know probably her sister and brother, they don't have that kind of cash laying around, but she didn't leave them out. She has not left them out at all. I think that's the right call. I think this is how they are navigating this thing. And I also think it's pertinent. The only voice that you hear is Nancy. And the only statement she makes is miss you. I thought that was powerful. It's powerful. It's poignant. It's It's poetic. It's all of the above and hopefully, you know, someone will see it and grow a conscience in all of this and do the right thing. But getting back to uh the sheriff and finally he made reference to that video, but finally um speaking out, he did another interview with another local station. So, let me play that um for you. And um really he I want you to focus on the fact that he's addressing this cases questions about it being a cold case and and why he's not releasing information according to what he's telling these local reporters. Okay. They are working hard to get this case resolved and I think every day they get closer. Puma County Sheriff Chris Nanos refers not just to his detectives working this investigation but the agents at the FBI as well. Day one, the FBI was involved in this case, and they continue to be involved with this case every single day. Nanos tells me they're also receiving help from DPS and a handful of labs across the country. We continue to work with our labs, whether it's on the digital end or the biological end, DNA. When it comes to DNA, Nanos tells me the labs are having to separate all of the different DNA that was found inside Guthri's house and then work to identify who it belongs to. And that takes time. It moves at a snail's pace, I guess, for some, but for my investigative team and for me, we look at this as, no, this is doing exactly what we needed to do. Because they want to ensure they're doing it right, not only to prevent arresting the wrong person, but to ensure they are able to properly prosecute whoever was involved in Nancy Guthri's disappearance. I believe at some point in time we will make an arrest on this case and whoever that individual is, that individual will have a right to a fair and partial trial. Nanos tells me they'll also be able to take DNA found, use it to figure out information about the individual and then hopefully connect that to the countless digital evidence they've collected and cataloged. And that's why Nanos told me he absolutely does not see this case as cold. There's way too much work to be that is ongoing with some of the physical evidence we have and and we're not going to give up on it just because it's been 100 days. When I asked Nanos if there was information they were withholding from the public. Yes, absolutely there are. But it's not done because we got to keep it secret. It's done because we got to protect our case. And while PCSD and the FBI have received tens of thousands of tips, both agencies urge you to call if you see, heard, or remember anything. We need you to call us. We we we know somebody out there knows what happened here. I'm glad that he's not giving up uh after 100 days. But um what break down the police speak for me. I agree with him that it's not cold. I agree that certain things need to be held close to the vest. um he's right about all that. But again, when he says, you know, some of these just slogan type statements, that's just filler. That's not telling you anything. After a 100 days, he and the FBI should have absolutely had another press conference. The family should be making statements. There's no question. They're in a holding pattern. I am telling you, they're just waiting on lab results. They don't honestly think some phone call is coming tomorrow. They think the answer is in the DNA. That's how they're operating. That's how they're acting. Like think about it. Cash Patel, he swung through there. He was there. Boots on the ground. He met with him in person. He ain't been back. I mean, it's a different case. So, they are waiting. He It It does appear to me that he has not been as inclusive as he should have been. Um, you all you got to do is watch that house. The FBI hadn't been back to it. They moved their headquarters. They moved the command center. That's pretty telling. Uh, what are you watching for next? You know, we, you know, he makes reference to the DNA. I thought we were just waiting on the the rootless hair, but he's saying that there's other mixtures of DNA. I think that, you know, we did hear about that. I'm wondering when we hear more about what the DNA was and where it was. Well, see, that's part of the problem, Matt, because here's the thing. When he first said there's a mixture, people are going to think biological because they think a mixture like a mixed drink. That's what they're going to think, right? Well, he doesn't tell us what the DNA is. Remember? So, we know it's NY's blood, but we don't know the other. Well, that's why people freak out because it seems like if it was hair, he would have said hair. But if it's something more sinister, is that what you're holding to the vest? So I have cons again concerns the way he speaks, the way he gives information. It ain't good. And he should have relied on his public information officer from day one. I don't like the fact that he doesn't have faith in that person. It should have never been him. It should not have been him from day one for a lot of reasons. But he doesn't convey information very well. I mean, sometimes he, you know, plays that okey do, well, your guess is as good as mine. A shucks, we're going to keep at it kind of thing. That's not comforting. Like I tell people at the academy, listen, you want to be as comforting and as secure in what you're saying and as in confident in your investigation as you want your surgeon to be. You don't want your surgeon to walk in and go, "Hey, we're gonna give it a shot. It don't look that difficult. I Googled it. I think I can get it all." What? No, no. You walk out in that road with your fanny shining headed to the car. Even if I'm sedated, I'm getting out. I'm out. So, you don't want your sheriff to go, "I don't know. We're going to see. We're trying. We're waiting. Your guess is as good as mine. I'm going to the ball game. That's not a lot of confidence in him. It's just not. So, it's no surprise that he's getting all this hate and he's getting all these people calling for him to resign. What do you want them to do? You know, they want How come we haven't received um the 911 call and things of that nature that would normally be released, right? And that's another thing. The 911 call often gives us clues that maybe even they've missed. Maybe somebody will hear something. Maybe somebody go, "Hey, that sounds like a 1975 Mustang in the background. I have an uncle that can listen to race tapes and tell you what car it is." There are people out there that know that engine, know that sound. Let people help you. When you're telling me the Cinjun Navy is turned away, the FBI is turned away, you know, Tim Miller and his group is turned away, I I'm just telling you, if I was Savannah Guthrie, I would have started setting stuff on fire in that town. You You cannot explain to me how my mom is missing 10 days, 40 days, 60 days, 100 days, and you're turning experts away. And that's what Tim Miller and the Cinjun Navy are. They're experts. they have had success and why would you tell them no even if they're not successful? You don't know where she's at. So, let us go look for her. Um, a little bit has changed since uh we talked last. Um, you know, there's always a bunch of crazy theories going around, especially because we don't get information, right? So, um, what are your thoughts on, you know, are we looking for suspects, suspects? Is this person persons still alive? Is Nancy still alive? Give me Give me your best guess right now before we wrap this up. It's one person. If you look at the evidence only, and this is what I again tell young investigators. If you do not start with I think, I believe, I feel because I don't care what you think. I don't care what you believe. I don't care what you feel. Show me the evidence. The evidence is on the 11th we have this same person dressed similar without the backpack and without a weapon. But he's dressed just like this at the front door. He's casing the joint. He's back sometime between the 11th and the 30th because the sheriff has asked for specific dates where he wants video, but he said he wasn't going to tell us for what. We know for what. It's for this guy. Then on the 30th, he comes back dressed very similar, but now he's got a backpack filled with stuff. He's got a weapon. He's got a mouth light. He is mission ready on the 30th. What changed between the 11th and the 30th? There is never a second person on that video. He does not have a jammer because he ain't acting like a person that's jammed it because he's trying to hide it with those weird flowers. He props open the back door. Two men ain't got to do that. He's knocked out the lights and the camera in the back. So, he's he's done this staging for us to think that it's more than one person. It's one person. The evidence tells you it's one person. the blood at the front door. A second person, a third person never walked through it. We don't have them on camera. Don't you think if this person was flanked by two other people, one short, one tall, one limping, you know, one hopping, don't you think if I don't recognize this guy, the three of them together, I might cuz these fools come in my bar every week and I know them. I know the guy that limps and he's 6'2 and I know the short guy with him and I know the medium bill guy. They would give us those three. They haven't done that. And every single person they have stopped has been a single Hispanic male. They have not hit a house with three or four Hispanic males. It's been a single Hispanic male. That's what you're looking for. That's what the evidence shows. Can we just get you on the case there? Can we just send you there right now and solve this thing? My opinion. It's just my opinion. And listen, when you listen to these other folks like Moren McConnell and Jim Clementy and all these brilliant people, I mean, listen to them, too. I'm just telling you, I don't see a second person. And and here's the other reality. Who was going to be the one that keeps going to the front door and getting on video while everybody else is hiding in the back? It's just stupid. Didn't happen. Didn't happen. He doesn't have a walkie-talkie cuz he ain't on it. He doesn't have a jammer because he's still trying to hide the lens. None of that happened. It's him and he's not well and he has no connection to her and we It all makes sense the way that you put it. Uh thank you so much. Uh so uh you have a big book. Tell me about it. It is out today, honey. It is called

Swans Don't Swim in a Sewer: 30:33

The Flint River Killer's Daughter's Murder. and it's where I worked with the Flint River killer, Carl Patton, to try to solve the murder of his daughter, Melissa. And it is out today. I'm going to have all the information in the show notes. How else can we get a hold of you? I've got a website, Cheryl McCollum, you know.com. You can get me anywhere on social media. Email me, call me, reach out. Well, thank you so much for your time. It's always a pleasure to see you. Thanks, Cheryl. Matt, thank you. And this is a fabulous thing you're doing. I love the show. It's not just your mama who's a fan. She is a big fan and thank you. Absolutely. Of course, our thoughts go out to Nancy Guthrie and her family during this difficult time. If you have any information, please call the FBI tip line at 1 800 call FBI. I'll keep you posted on the case. In the meantime, take care of yourself. We'll see you next time.