The AAM Regulatory Landscape: What’s Moving, What’s Missing, What’s Next

In this episode of Aerospace Unplugged, our host Adam Kress is joined by Pulkit Agrawal, Certification and Regulatory Affairs Leader for Advanced Air Mobility (AAM) at Honeywell Aerospace, and Devin Patterson, Director of Strategic Engagement at Southwest Mission Accelerator Center (MAC). 

Together, they take a deeper look at the rapidly evolving regulatory landscape that’s shaping advanced air mobility, discussing the current progress and challenges, as well as shifting policies across different government levels, and more. 

Episode Highlights

• Current Industry Developments, Needs, and Challenges: Explore how Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) initiatives, such as the EIPP program, are enabling early AAM operations, supporting data-driven rulemaking, and influencing collaboration among OEMs, regulators, and regional stakeholders.
• State of the AAM U.S. Regulatory Landscape: Learn what the U.S. regulatory approach for advanced air mobility is, including an overview of the national AAM strategy and how programs like EIPP fit into the broader effort to scale safe, early operations.
• Industry Collaborations & Their Significance: Discover how collaboration among industry, municipalities, states, and federal agencies is growing and how it's helping align infrastructure planning, policy development, and community engagement to support AAM deployment.
• Future Outlook for Advanced Air Mobility: Get a forward-looking view of what to the future may hold as AAM progresses toward broader operations, spanning regulatory frameworks, infrastructure readiness, public acceptance, and more.(No character limit / Highlights)

Transcript

Adam Kress:
Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode of Aerospace Unplugged. I'm your host Adam Kress. On today's episode we'll be taking a deeper look at the rapidly evolving regulatory landscape that's shaping advanced air mobility. We'll explore not only what's progressing and what challenges remain, but also how shifting policies at the federal, state, and local levels are influencing when and where advanced air mobility vehicles will fly. We'll dive into how national guidance connects with state municipal actions, where alignment is strengthening, and where some gaps still persist. We'll tell you what that means for real world implementation, and finally, we'll highlight why collaboration across the AAM industry is essential to maintaining momentum and moving into a new era of flight.

Adam Kress:
Joining us today on the podcast to help explain all of this are two experts right in the middle of this issue.

Adam Kress:
The first is Pulkit Agrawal, certification and regulatory affairs leader for advanced air mobility at Honeywell Aerospace. Joining Pulkit is Devin Patterson. He's the director of strategic engagement at Southwest Mission Acceleration Center. Pulkit, Devin, welcome to the show. 

 Pulkit Agrawal:
Thank you.

Devin Patterson:
Thank you.

Adam Kress:
All right, so let's find out a little bit more about your background. First off, Devin, tell me about your work and your career background, what you're doing now and how you got into it.

Devin Patterson:
Well, thank you very much. I appreciate you guys having me here on the show. To start off with a little bit of background, I come from a military background. I did a little over a decade in the U.S. Army as an intelligence professional. Around that time, I was one of those crazy people that jumped out of planes. And so over time, my body started to say, hey, it might be time to slow down a little bit. And so I transitioned out and I started working with the states and understanding how to continue to work with the Defense Department and understanding how we as a state can better support that and the initiatives they have bringing on.

Adam Kress:
Okay, excellent. Pulkit, what about you? How did you get into aviation?
 
 

Pulkit Agrawal:
First of all, thank you, Adam, for having me here. I'm the regulatory affairs lead for AAM in Honeywell. I have been working in Honeywell for 25 years now. So I joined as a test engineer where I used to do a cockpit display testing and where I used to see the display on the flight deck and say, put, pass, and fail on what pilot is supposed to see.

Pulkit Agrawal:
The main thing is when I used to do the testing during that time 25 years back, I used to think that if I make a mistake here, pilot may not see what he's supposed to be seeing. And that used to give me the feeling of responsibility and the safety of flight depends on me. From that time, the feeling never went off. So I always feel that what I do is required for safety of the flight and I still enjoy what I do. AAM is a new field and it's a new era which is going to transform the aviation industry. And I'm happy that I'm in the middle of these things.

Adam Kress:
Okay. So, Devin, how did you come to start working with Honeywell here?

Devin Patterson:
So through our efforts here in the state, the Southwest MAC was helping the state build out its application for the FAA's EIPP program. And just for context, the EIPP program is the FAA's program to identify five new emergent test sites throughout the U.S. where we can bring on some of these new advanced air mobility type of capabilities. And so as we were putting together this application, I was in charge of identifying the right stakeholders to bring into the conversation that could add value to what we were trying to build out here in the state. And so that led me to lead into conversation with Pulkit here and seeing how we can incorporate Honeywell more meaningfully in application and as well as a big partner in what we're trying to build out in the ecosystem of advanced air mobility here in the state of Arizona.

Adam Kress:
 Okay. Excellent. I know we're going to get back to this EIPP program, but if we back up a little bit first, that's kind of level set on where we are here in early 2026 with advanced air mobility and kind of what's happening.

Adam Kress:
What are some of the current trends and developments that you guys are seeing that are shaping the industry right now? And what are some of the challenges that still remain or the humps the industry still needs to get over?

Pulkit Agrawal:
So I would say the first thing is, that you're saying says, "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good." And that is a big thing because if we wait for everything to be perfect, we will never launch the system.

Pulkit Agrawal:
And FAA and US is in the right position where they are taking the approach across, walk and run, where they launch the EIPP program. EIPP program is an extension of BEYOND program, which was a successful program in the UAS industry where they used the waivers and exemptions to allow these UAS drone to fly in a controlled area, collect the data, and those data was required for FAA to shape up the future policies.

Pulkit Agrawal:
The same way FAA has launched the EIPP program where their plan is to allow the current OEMs who are mature enough to do the early commercial operations without going for the type certification. And same time, they will collect the data and those will be shaping up the future regulations. Similar way, like on the BEYOND program, when these waivers and exemptions are shaped up the regulations where last year we saw the part 108 NPRM was released. And similar way, the data collected from the EIPP will help us to shape up the regulatory framework in the future.
 
 
 

Adam Kress:
So what exactly is EIPP? What does that stand for? And then tell me about the objectives of that and what the eventual output will be.
 
 

Devin Patterson:
Absolutely. So the EIPP program is the Federal Aviation Administration, so FAA's, electric, vertical takeoff and landing, and advanced air mobility integration program known as the EIPP. It is designed to identify five sites, not really cities or a specific building location, just five sites to where they can advance or identify as a new test site to advance some of these capabilities where we look at in terms of advanced air mobility. So think of where, again, air taxis, drone delivery, any of these capabilities we're looking to try to advance. The EIPP program is designed to identify five locations that are the optimal locations where the FAA can get insight in terms of the rulemaking that is going to be necessary to continue to scale that across the national airspace.

Adam Kress:
Do the winning sites also get some sort of federal funding?

Devin Patterson:
There is no funding tied to it as of this stage. And the way that it is structured is the five sites that are identified go into an agreement with the FAA in terms of how they're going to activate the strategy that they identified in their application within a 90-day window and where the FAA can insert themselves within there. Now, again, since there is no funding identified within there, that does not mean that there is not funding tied to it. It's just not openly saying, hey, there's a certain amount that the FAA is going to commit to. It's just that it gives room for the FAA to identify the best venue to insert themselves to add the most value as well as get the most insight.

Adam Kress:
Okay. And then, Pulkit, what's the ideal output of the EIPP program if we fast forward here a couple years, they pick the five locations, it goes successfully. What do we get at the end of it?
 
 Pulkit Agrawal:
 I think it is a win-win kind of program. So, FAA will get the data to shape up the regulations, and OEMs will get the early revenue operations where they don't have to wait, the investor will put more money onto the AAM because when they start seeing these aircraft flying, there will be more money flowing into this industry. So, big two things is regulator will get the data to shape up the regulations and policies, and the OEM will get the revenue operations.
 
 
 Adam Kress:
Okay. Devin, from your perspective then, and I know you're kind of looking through a lot of this with maybe an Arizona first lens, but if you back up and look at AAM as a whole, how do you see it progressing?
 
 Devin Patterson:
One of the things that I see really shaping the industry right now is more of a unified effort than say a state-led effort. So even though a lot of our effort is focused on Arizona currently, we focus on the entire Southwest region. So that includes New Mexico, that includes Nevada, that includes Colorado, Utah, all of these different areas that we're looking to make sure that as we continue to expand this ecosystem of advanced air mobility, that we're incorporating the right stakeholders across the board, not only here locally to the state. And so that's one of the biggest trends that I can see going on, not only here in the Southwest, but across the U.S. is that, hey, we're taking a more regional approach. We're taking a more partnership structure and collaboration structure approach to how we bring on this new industry.

Adam Kress:
Okay. If we take even one further step back, forget about state level, but if we're talking about globally, there's a lot of competition, right? American has been the leader in aviation since the beginning of aviation, but there's AAM in service in China. You hear a lot out of the Middle East about companies looking to go into service there, plenty of activity in Europe as well. So I want to get each of your thoughts on like where we stand in the competitive landscape and are we coming from behind? Do we still have an opportunity to lead?

Pulkit Agrawal:
Yes. I think this is a great question, Adam, how the U.S. is standing in front of the whole world and global map. And I see this, if I think about the overall world, Europe, EASA has already put that regulatory framework for the AAM industry to get into the early operations.

Pulkit Agrawal:
Same time, the Asia Pacific, there are 24 countries, consortium was formed last year. They released the reference material to enable the AAM operations in Asia Pacific. Same time, the Middle East, UAE, and Saudi Arabia is working on defining their regulatory roadmap so that if the aircraft, once the aircraft gets certified through the FAA, they can actually use those certifications and enable the operations in Middle East. Same time, the UK CAA has launched or released the delivery model, which is talking about the regulatory framework for 2028 and entry to service. So if you see all the regulatory framework going on around the world, I see every country is trying to be the first in the AAM. They want to launch these services at this new entrant. Same time now, FAA has done a great, great work in launching this EIPP program because again, we can't wait for perfection. We need to start from somewhere so that the OEMs who want to do the commercial operations, there is an opportunity for OEMs to do the commercial operations, do the revenue operations, collect the data, provide the data to the FAA, and FAA can keep building the policies on top of that. So I see FAA is in a very good shape to be a leader in this space where they have started launching the new EIPP through the EIPP program.


Adam Kress:
Absolutely. I know a lot of people think, they may think first with advanced air mobility of flying taxis and passenger service, but Devin, I want to ask you more from the Department of War’s side and even your own background in the service.

Adam Kress:
Is the progression when it comes to defense related technologies maybe a little bit different than what we see on more of the air taxi side of things?

Devin Patterson:
Not necessarily. So when we think of air taxis, a lot of times we think of say the 1% using that. That's not really going to be more for the typical civilian population. The thing that we're really focused on is more or less not so much the use case, but the capability that that presents. The being able to transport personnel through the air, that's what we're more interested in from the Department of War perspective. Now, the thing that I see where the US stands in relation to say internationally. Internationally there are some areas we need to catch up on, but in other areas we are leading. One of the biggest things that allows us to remain in the lead and not trying to play catch up is the fact that we're focused on the foundational levels of advanced air mobility and what's going to be required to scale in across each locale here in the US. Not just say hey in the Phoenix metro or say in LA metro or the Miami metro, things like that. We're looking to establish what the rules are going to be broadly and then what the infrastructure is going to look like to be able to actually stand these up in frameworks across the US. That's why I think it really stands it apart. And so in doing that we understand that even in say here in the state of Arizona we have a strong defense base. This defense base has a unique perspective about the capabilities they are looking to bring on as well. And so there is a way that we can use a dual hat approach in terms of what capabilities and which customers and which technologies we bring on board that will also help the defense side of the world.

Adam Kress:
Yeah, it's really fascinating to think like you know longer term there's going to be US cities and through the EIPP program right there's going to be five identified that there are going to kind of be the default leaders. But if you think longer term on how you know what's happening in Pittsburgh might relate to what's happening in Seattle you know kind of a you know almost a whole country apart.

Adam Kress:
You know that leads me a little bit to the AAM national strategy that was released late last year. Can you give a little bit of an overview of what was in that strategy and then also you know reaction to it?

Pulkit Agrawal:
I think this is a great, great move when we talk about the national strategy and plan. So again it is again a crawl, walk, and run kind of concept where FAA has and Department of Transport with the FAA and other government agencies has released this national strategy for AAM and the plan. And if you see in 2023 FAA released the concept of operation for AAM and the innovate 28 plan and those plans were really good. It's the same type of concept. I don't see there is a huge change between innovate 28 and strategy plan. It's just that the strategy goes three layer down and actually points out around 40 recommendations to the government agencies for six pillars. So they have identified around six pillars out of the automation is one of them, the aerospace is one of them, the infrastructure is another one, security, the community engagement. All these pillars under these pillars they have recommended around 40 recommendations and each recommendation has a leading organization who is going to lead this particular plan.

Pulkit Agrawal:
And again this national strategy and plan is a spectrum. So we need to build up the technology, we need to build up the workforce, we need to build up the regulations and the strategy and plan provides the step wise approach from where we are today to where we want to go. We want to have one or two aircrafts right now and then later on fully scale integration of these new entrant into the aerospace and that's what the national strategy and plan does. A continuous improvement building it on to what we have today and then taking it to the future where we can actually integrate all these entrant into the aerospace system.

Devin Patterson:
It did a good job not focusing on any specific technology or any specific stage of technology and rather focused on what we can do across the board infrastructure framework wise. I think that's where it was more reassuring for me and seeing that hey we are focused at the federal levels of more or less formalizing what's already been in the works for years and now that we have went from formalizing it now we can take it from that concept to actual operationalization.

 Adam Kress:
What do you think are the most important factors that will affect this plan that could hopefully make it a success and have it come to fruition?

Devin Patterson:
One thing that is across the board I think that we can acknowledge, power. A lot of people overlook power not only accessibility but availability. That is going to shape not only advanced air mobility but all manufacturing industries across the board going forward not only here in the US but across the world. How we can get the right infrastructure, power infrastructure, availability.

Adam Kress:
You are talking batteries, charging networks, vertiports…
 
 Devin Patterson:
All of that, everything that we are going to need to be able to actually scale these type of technologies because it's one thing to have a fleet of advanced air mobility drones. I use that term for now. It's a whole other thing to be able to actually put those in operation and do some of the things that we are looking to bring on emergency delivery to a rural location. It's very different because there needs to be established for the ports for you to charge it. There needs to be a stop if you need to pick up the cargo at a different location than what you took off from. All of these different considerations, all of that is going to be dependent upon infrastructure and most importantly power.

Adam Kress:
So Pulkit, I will give you a different angle at this. Absolutely power. You have to have the infrastructure in place, but maybe a different side of it is around public acceptance.

Pulkit Agrawal:
 That is the big question.
 
 Adam Kress:
Maybe we have all the power in the world and we figure that out but are people still going to step on the aircraft or trust them?

Pulkit Agrawal:
Here is what I always say. Regulators’ job is to make this aircraft air worthy. It is our job and our job who works in this industry, it is our job to make this aircraft trustworthy.

Pulkit Agrawal:
The reason why I say is FAA can make sure that these aircraft are safe and safe to fly with but if my neighbor doesn't know what these aircrafts are and how it is coming into the market where these aircrafts are going to land, whether it is going to be noisy or not noisy, that is education we have to provide. It is our responsibility to provide this education.

Pulkit Agrawal:
I have done this with my neighbor. I spoke to my neighbor. I said, "Okay, this is the new aircraft coming in. This will be the next mode of transportation in the future." Then there are questions that start coming back. Is it going to be costly? It is going to be only for the rich people or how this whole industry will shape up? Once we start clarifying these answers slowly, now any news he sees, he comes back to me and says, "This is the new thing coming up, Pulkit. I am really glad you are working on it." It is basically giving the awareness to the public.

Pulkit Agrawal:
That is where they start looking around, "Oh, yeah, this thing is coming and now it is a cool thing." They start learning more about it and then it starts accepting. I think acceptance is coming from the awareness. Once first they need to get aware about the technology and then they will start accepting it. Again, I say it. Regulators’ job is to make the aircrafts airworthy. Our job is to make it trustworthy.

Devin Patterson:
There is often difficulty in trying to translate those technical aspects to some of the decision makers and that is where organizations like mine come in. We service that bridge between the technical side and some of the municipalities, state and federal levels and translating that narrative in a way that is digestible for all stakeholders. Making sure that we can get to a point to where the average citizen understands the value of establishing a vertiport, say, by their neighborhood or something like that. We have to be able to translate that so that everyone understands value, so that we can get the community by and not only in a municipal level, but at the state level, so that when we go to the federal level, it is more buy-in.
 
 Adam Kress:
Have you seen, Devin, over the past couple of years, a growth or an evolution maybe in talking with lawmakers that there is kind of a growing acceptance? I know we don't have many in service yet, so every day people are not seeing it. You have to poke it. You have to have a neighbor who can tell you about it at this point. Do you see that acceptance level kind of growing or changing?
 
 Devin Patterson:
It is starting to grow some because we are having more conversations about it and there is more examples that people can identify in their own neighborhoods of it being in use, whether it be, say, Waymo, taxi, Amazon drone, any of these things that are already in place, they are starting to see it come into value for them. So they are like, okay, let's have the conversation about how we can continue to scale this.

Adam Kress:
Pulkit, you mentioned that, you know, that there's a desire for everyone to be first, whether you're talking about states or whether you're talking about countries. But what does being first really mean, and are there some extra risks to that?

Pulkit Agrawal:
It is always a risk when you get into the first on the top of the front of the vehicle. I mean, this is always a challenge.

Pulkit Agrawal:
Setting up all your regulatory framework in front is a challenge because now every country who is going to be the trying to be the first, they need to develop all their own regulatory framework.

Pulkit Agrawal:
FAA has developed it. EASA has developed it. Now other countries are planning to pick up either from FAA or from EASA, most of these regulations, and then trying to build it up. So, yes, it is always going to be challenging when you want to be the first in the industry. These are the new entrants, and it is going to be shaping the aviation industry in the future. So, everybody wants to be in the front of the row.

Adam Kress:
Devin, you had mentioned that, you know, we're on the verge of really having the playbook here, and, you know, these different organizations, states, you know, kind of knowing what to do and how to implement these things. Do you see the playbook coming together more top down? There's federal, you know, regulations that get implemented, or is it a little bit more bottom up, where maybe, you know, what they're doing in one city is super successful, and then that influences, you know, the whole "playbook"?
 
 Devin Patterson:
Absolutely. It's definitely going to be more of the bottom-up model going forward because they understand each locality is going to have its own unique perspective and own unique frameworks that they can provide insight and data to the FAA on that would allow them to then shape the rules that they can scale in other locations. As I was mentioning around that playbook, what that would really allow the FAA to do, again, is to give guidance to states about how they can incorporate these technologies into their municipalities in a way that not only feeds into what the FAA needs into the national airspace, but also can align with their own state initiatives and their own economic base of what they're trying to establish.

Adam Kress:
Pulkit, with the national strategy, how exactly, like, does that get implemented? What's the guidance?


 
 Pulkit Agrawal:
Yeah. So national strategy comes with the planning document, and planning document is organized in the principle of LIFT. LIFT is your L-I-F-T, where L stands for "leveraging what you have." And it's, as I discussed in the beginning, this is a spectrum. We need to build up the technology. We need to build up the regulations. We need to build up the workforce. We need to build up the community engagement and community acceptance. Everything has to be built up slowly. And LIFT talks about "leveraging what you have today." Use the current infrastructure and implement these aircrafts into the NAS slowly. Then I stands for "initiate research." Build more research, gather more data, bring in more automation, prove the automation and bring those into the new system, forge new policies, and then transform the aviation. So that's overall LIFT concept is where you can leverage what you have, initiate research, then forge new policies, and then transform the aviation. And that's how they want us to build up, build up planning document. It's industries, our job is to help all the government industries who are responsible for these recommendations to help them using our technical expertise, using our workforce, and using our space, what we have in state or local places, to help them to shape up this future.

Adam Kress:
When it comes to that big picture national strategy, do you think that there are still any big gaps to fill, things to address, or do we need to just try to execute the plan?

Devin Patterson:
One of the big things that I think that I would say we need to address is there is some misalignment and understanding of utility timelines. Now the reason I highlight this again, because I feel and the conversations I am having, power is really shaping how we continue to advance all of these technologies. And so one of the big things that we have to make sure we understand is how long it is taking to actually establish new infrastructure for some of these type of operations, because when we do establish this and are able to deliver more power, there is going to be a prioritization of candidates who are going to be able to access that power more immediately. And so there is going to be a certain finesse that we have to approach the next phase of these conversations about how do we continue to advance this in an equitable way that makes sure we are not slowing industry down, but that we are also shaping the rulemaking so that the federal lawmakers and the federal decision makers aren't the funnel that is slowing everything down as well.

Pulkit Agrawal:
I totally agree with that. And I think you have a plan, we have a strategy, but we need to have an execution plan on the top of that to say that, okay, this is the plan and I need to have this plan to be executed within 10 years or 15 years and then get those timeline and milestones set up so that it is a realistic timeline on each activity or each recommendation they have in the plan and strategy document
 
 Adam Kress:
Yeah, when it comes to the state or local government efforts right now across the U.S., what are the primary efforts that are taking place?

Pulkit Agrawal:
Okay. I mean, I think this is a good one because I can talk about Arizona. Sure. There is a – when I think all the states are working together, I mean, right now every state is – an EIPP program actually brought all the states together and it has created a competitive environment because every state is actually applying for the EIPP proposals and that actually gave a very good sense of competition and education because most of the state who didn't know about the AAM, now they all know about AAM because of this program. So this is a good thing. From Arizina point of view, there was a bill, State Bill 1307 was passed last year which was an AAM infrastructure bill. That is a great because in the bill they talk about setting up the infrastructure plan, the vertiport plan for AAM operations.

Pulkit Agrawal:
And last year, Phoenix Aviation Department actually released a roadmap for the AAM operations in Phoenix and they are targeting the Sky Harbor, the Deer Valley Airport and Goodyear Airport for early operations. So I think this is a great event which are happening at the state level where everybody knows what is going on and awareness at the state level and then the plan for how to enable the AAM operations in Arizona.

Adam Kress:
Okay, that leads me to think more about – you say all these states are essentially competing against each other right now, but I think the broader, longer-term goal is collaboration.

Pulkit Agrawal:
Exactly.
 
 Adam Kress:
So, and again, getting back to Honeywell and to MAC working together, there is another example of industry trying – the rising tide lifts all boats, right?
 
 Devin Patterson:
Absolutely.
 
 Adam Kress:
So tell me a little bit more, Devin, about collaborations that we are seeing with different industry stakeholders and what sort of collaborations do we really need to make sure we are lifting that tide?
 
 Devin Patterson:
Yes, absolutely. One of the big collaborations that we are seeing is we are seeing the technical personnel being more willing to come to the table and have the discussions about policy. Now I know that may come across with a grain of salt, but we understand when we get into the technical realm there is a certain language that they typically communicate with and so with them coming more to the table we are getting more in depth about the frameworks that we need so that we can actually scale what we are trying to do and it gives more from just having conversations and concepts to where like how do we actually do this? And that is where it led – again, where it led to our collaboration to where we as the MAC, we serve again to help companies understand how they can get their capabilities into the hands of the warfighter and there is multiple venues in terms of how that can look, but we serve as that conduit for there. So being that bridge for industry, specifically for the Department of War, is one conduit that we see about where industry is starting to go is that hey, look, we understand the Department of War is going to be a big customer going forward because of what we see going on around the world. It is going to become more and more important that there is a unity of effort through states, industry, municipality, whether it be a utility partner understanding hey, we need to understand our timelines from municipality understanding zoning requirements to even say the local legislator having the community town hall to walk through the talking points of like hey, let me make sure I address what you guys are highlighting for us as concerns. All these different things I think are indicators that the thing that we see across the board that there is more willingness to come to the table and have discussions. People are coming out of the silos that we have typically seen and are saying hey, let us move forward, let us accelerate some of this and let us get some of the typical red tape that would have slowed us down out of the way. That is what I would say I see is more signaling across the industries.
 
 Adam Kress:
Yeah, it seems like with the national strategy and the EIPP program in particular, we are seeing that, right? It is bringing everyone out into the open essentially.

Adam Kress:
All right, so we will pull out the crystal ball here as best as we can, but as we are already in the second half of this decade now, if we look, yeah, that is crazy, right?

Adam Kress:
If we look toward 2030, particularly with advanced air mobility and the regulatory landscape, what do you see as kind of like the next big steps in developments?

Pulkit Agrawal:
Some of the things which I think of is first thing is I want to see the EIPP program successful. We need these aircraft to be flying for public awareness, for public acceptance, community acceptance, so we need these early operations to start. We have an Olympic coming in in 2028, LA Olympic. We need some of the early operations to start during that Olympics, so what we can see, we are the leader in this space.

Pulkit Agrawal:
Slowly bringing automation through the CAAT program, like CAAT was a program, center of advanced aviation technology, where Texas A&M University was granted to leading this CAAT program, and these guys are going to test the new or future technology, so there, those proven technology will come into the AAM. These are some of the things which I am looking for and thinking that these will enable the AAM at a full scale in our country.

Adam Kress:
Devin, what do you think? Look ahead, next four or five years or so.
 
 Devin Patterson:
Over the next four or five years, I think we are really going to go into more tangible operatization or more tangible operations across the board here in the U.S. Over these next couple of years, you are going to see frameworks be built out in terms of infrastructure policy, zoning requirements, all of that, essentially a playbook developed for municipalities to be able to incorporate into their localities about how they want to integrate these AAM technologies. Again, not every location is going to need air taxis, but not every location is going to need rural access and delivery for emergency services, but there is going to be some venue and advanced air mobility that every location can take advantage of, and I say by 2030 we are going to have that playbook available that each state can then and activate at their own pace, essentially.
 
 Adam Kress:
Excellent. Well, Pulkit and Devin, thank you both so much for being on the podcast today. It is fascinating to think where all this is headed, how far it has already come, but also where it is going as well. As you know, we call the podcast Aerospace Unplugged, so when you guys unplug, last question here, what do you like to do? Is it still jumping out of planes or is it something?
 
 Devin Patterson:
 Yeah, there will be no more jumping out of planes for me. My body has definitely told me that is a no-go, but for me the best way that I unplug, I still do a lot of reading, but it is just of the different varieties, so I read a lot of manhwa and watch a lot of anime, so that is my way of just connecting there, just transport myself to another world.
 
 Adam Kress:
Awesome.
 
 Pulkit Agrawal:
I think this is a very difficult question. I was talking to one of my friends.

Adam Kress:
Do you have a hard time unplugging Pulkit?
 
 Pulkit Agrawal:
No, this is it. I was talking to one of my friends and he used to be in army. What happened? I used to ask his wife, "What does he do when he is not in the front and he doesn't do this work?" He said, "He talks about it." That is it. When you are not working, you talk about those things which you have worked on. I think this is what I do. If I am not working, I talk about it.

Adam Kress:
Well, maybe you can borrow some books from Devin.

Devin Patterson:
I definitely got you. You can do that.
 
 Adam Kress:
All right. Well, thank you both again. As always, thank you to all the listeners out there as well. We appreciate you and we will catch you on the next episode of Aerospace Unplugged.