Environment Top 5: Net Zero | Net Zero Week

In this episode of EnvCast, we discuss the Environment Top 5 things to consider about net zero. We cover the need for greater green skills, the different energy sources to diversify the grid, the place-based approach, nuclear options and much more. 

This special episode is aligned with the Net Zero Week to raise greater awareness of net zero and the different options out there.

Speaker bios:

Kelo Uchendu REnvP is a sustainability professional with a multidisciplinary background in engineering, sustainability, and science policy. He is currently part of Mott MacDonald's Decarbonisation and Energy Transition team, where he specialises in the built environment and large-scale decarbonisation projects. Kelo supports the development of technical solutions and energy strategies that help cities, buildings, and infrastructure sectors achieve national and local net-zero targets.

He also serves as a member of the UNFCCC Technology Executive Committee (TEC) Open-ended Activity Group on Long-term Technological Transition and National Systems of Innovation (NSI).

Jennie Stein is a Chartered Environmentalist with a broad and accomplished background in environmental protection, sustainability, and climate resilience. She is currently seconded full-time from Sellafield Ltd to Enterprising Cumbria, where she holds the role of Head of Net Zero. Jennie is responsible for leading the delivery of Cumbria’s net zero programme, working in close partnership with Cumberland and Westmorland & Furness Councils, and providing regular updates to the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero.

With over a decade of experience in the nuclear industry, Jennie has led work on environmental compliance, improvement, and climate adaptation. She also has experience in academic research, specialising in ecology and evolution. Jennie’s career spans programme management, environmental innovation, technical communication, and cross-sector collaboration with a strong focus on accelerating the transition to a low-carbon, sustainable economy.

Professional registration:

Registered status as a Chartered Environmentalist (CEnv), Registered Environmental Practitioner (REnvP) or Registered Environmental Technician (REnvTech) are available. To find out more about our registrations visit: https://socenv.org.uk/professional-re...

Check out our other platforms:

YouTube: Society for the Environment //
Website: socenv.org.uk // LinkedIn: society-for-the-environment

Chapters

• 3:26 Topic 1
• 11:52 Topic 2
• 19:52 Topic 3
• 27:04 Topic 4
• 33:23 Topic 5

Transcript

0:00
 Enough people have green skills, the southern side will be not enough.

 0:05
 I think nuclear is a sort of base load power and source.

 0:08
 It's going to be really crucial as we take the next steps in the energy transition.

 0:14
 We're more or less looking at, you know, hydrogen, you know, green hydrogen as an option or as a meet, you know, to to try to help decarbonise those processes.

 0:26
 Welcome to the Society for the Environment Emphcast, where we feature special guests highlighting an environment top five each month.

 0:34
 Each month we welcome 2 environment professionals to explore what they believe to be the top five things to consider within a particular topic.

 0:42
 Topics range from climate to leadership, agriculture to AI and everything in between.

 0:50
 Look out for some curve balls in the top five each month.

 0:52
 And remember, we can't cover every important thing within a topic.

 0:56
 Our aim is to uncover how you can be part of the solution, to learn from the experts and to sometimes think outside of the box as we strive for a sustainable future.

 1:06
 Enjoy the episode.

 1:11
 Hello and welcome back to NF Cast for another environment top five, this time focusing on that little on topic of net zero.

 1:20
 My name is Phil, I'm from the Society for the Environment and your podcast host for today.

 1:25
 As always, we will be having a good chat with two registered environmental professionals and exploring key topics from different perspectives to expand our collective knowledge and make more impact.

 1:37
 For this episode, we are aligning with Net Zero Week in the UK, which is running from the 5th to the 11th of July 2025, to look into the top five things for professionals across sectors to consider in and around the topic of net zero.

 1:54
 We're joined by a registered environmental practitioner and a chartered Environmentalist.

 1:59
 Their biographies are in the podcast description, but as an extremely short introduction, I'm very pleased to be joined by Jenny Stein, who is a chartered environmentalist via their membership of the Institute of Environmental Management and Assessment, which is also known as IEMA.

 2:18
 Jenny is the Head of Net 0 Enterprising Cumbria, seconded from Sellafield Limited.

 2:23
 So she is bang on theme for this podcast.

 2:27
 It's like we thought about it.

 2:28
 Something's very good.

 2:29
 And the thought process doesn't stop there with our 2nd guest now joined by Kelo Uchendu, a Registered Environmental Practitioner, also via the membership of IEMA.

 2:42
 Now Kelo is Net 0 Consultant at Mott McDonald and in June was announced as the highly commended finalist in the Rising Star category at the 2025 Sock and rewards no less.

 2:54
 So a very warm welcome to you both.

 2:59
 Hello, thank you.

 3:01
 Very nice to have you here.

 3:03
 So let's get straight into the top five.

 3:06
 We will alternate between Kello and Jenny for the first four and the final item is for them to agree on as a top thing to consider for net zero.

 3:15
 A key take away for our listeners.

 3:18
 So number one, I'm going to hand straight over to Keller to talk about green skills with my initial question.

 3:26
 Do enough people have green skills?

 3:28
 But first, tell us a little bit more about yourself and McDonald, not McDonald for a bit of context.

 3:34
 Thank you.

 3:34
 Thank you so much, Phil.

 3:35
 My name is Keller.

 3:36
 Like you, like you mentioned, and I work with McDonald decarbonization and energy transaction team as an EXO consultant.

 3:44
 And Matt McDonald is obviously a large multi disciplinary engineering consulting firm.

 3:50
 And my remit of remit of my team is looking at large scale infrastructure decarbonization, but also supporting cities and local authority to rethink the local energy journey and support them in their net sales journey.

 4:03
 And to answer a give a very short answer to your question, do enough people have green skills?

 4:11
 The certain side will be not enough.

 4:13
 No.

 4:14
 And when we look at the scale and pace of changes that needs to happen for us to meet net 01 of the key reoccurring challenge that you know will flag up is kill gaps and skill shortage.

 4:29
 Finance is always mentioned, but skill shortage is one key one that is that has not gotten the necessary attention needed to actually speed up the transaction for contest to put this in contest.

 4:40
 The Crime Exchange Committee will propose that by 20202035 about 25% of home in the UK needs to be installed with heat pump and this obviously increased to 80% of homes by 2050.

 4:54
 To achieve this alone, we need to upscale 10,000 people to be able to deliver this alone.

 5:01
 So when we look at this scale and the pace, you see that there is still a huge gap in trying to ramp up this ambition and to be able to deliver on this natural commitment.

 5:12
 And a lot of organizations, a lot of organizations, a lot of also local authorities and clients has been, you know, raising awareness about these issues.

 5:22
 How do we make sure that, you know, we are equipping young people, but also the whole society to be able to transition to green, you know, to greener career pathways and to be able to build these skills that help deliver on the natural promise.

 5:37
 And I and I think ultimately the responsibility rides on, you know, what I consider to be the key duty holders to be able to deliver this promise and this promise.

 5:47
 And one of them is employers.

 5:49
 I think employers have, you know, a key role to play to lead this transition.

 5:55
 And one of them is, you know, opening up the space.

 5:57
 It can be the great apprenticeship, apprenticeship that support young people that doesn't necessarily go through the university, the conventional university route.

 6:06
 But to be able to come into the industry, to be able to get on the job real hard reward experience and to be able to translate that into a meaningful career within the green sector.

 6:17
 But also not just employer, the education institutions also have a key role to play.

 6:22
 And by aligning their courses, you know, with their margin net 0 demands and to be able to, you know, start promoting green careers to student early on in, in in their journey.

 6:33
 Another key player that I think are considered a duty holder is also government.

 6:37
 You know, they should be able to fund and scare and stay green skill pipelines, you know, most especially in disadvantage areas, you know, to be able to create policies and environments, you know, an enabling environmental support, long term investment in green jobs and you know, and green carriers.

 6:55
 OK, what an introduction.

 6:56
 Yeah, there's lots to talk about there already.

 6:58
 And net zero is obviously it can be a tricky thing, tricky concept for a lot of people to get their head around.

 7:03
 It's quite a a big thing.

 7:05
 But when you give examples like we need 10,000 more people to be upskilled just for the heat pump situation, that's quite a number to even get your head around.

 7:16
 So whilst that gives good context, it still sounds very tricky, doesn't it?

 7:20
 So, and obviously you mentioned a few, few key people that would have responsibilities for making this kind of happening happen, employers and government and so on.

 7:30
 But in terms of the heat pumps, I suppose there's, there'll be a lot of local self-employed trades and so on who'll be key to that as well.

 7:39
 So they need upskilling, which I guess is where they need local support and so on.

 7:44
 Yeah, yeah, obviously the local supply chains also it's, you know, it's very important making sure that we have enough skilled people to to be able to to deliver this.

 7:56
 I more or less look at try to classify this into very much strict categories.

 8:02
 So one of them is the transaction skills.

 8:06
 So the technical skills, which are the people who have this hands on experience in terms of hip hop installation, solar PV and a hydrogen system.

 8:14
 The people that have this hard on skill to be able to deliver this.

 8:18
 But also we also need people with, you know, the transversal skills that that are these are broader cross cutting skills like project management, digital delivery, and also be able to drive behavioral change.

 8:29
 And then there is also the most important one, the transaction skills, which are the skills which are the ones crucial to helping, you know, people who are currently employed, you know, within the fossil fuel high carbon industry to be able to transaction to greener carriers.

 8:46
 Still on the heat pump example, the UK government is obviously planning to phase out fussy gas burritos by training.

 8:53
 So to enable this pump to scale, you have to first phase out gas burritos.

 8:58
 So people who are currently employed within the gas burritos value chain need to be able to upscale to be able to, you know, to transaction to upscale to transaction to, you know, other greener scales, which is the core of, you know, just transactions.

 9:13
 How are we making sure that we're not leaving anybody behind?

 9:16
 Those people who are currently explored within the current sector, fossil fuel sector, how are we making sure that we're providing, you know, a means of a way for them to rescale and transaction back to greener skills?

 9:27
 Yeah.

 9:28
 And that transition, obviously you've got those people on the ground doing, doing the work.

 9:31
 But I guess it's also a business model because those, those businesses who, who supply energy and so on, they, they're going to have to transition quickly.

 9:40
 And if they do it quickly and really well, then there's a, there's a business opportunity there, you'd imagine.

 9:45
 But Jenny, what's the, what's the current situation in, in Cumbria based on where you work, but also many other ideas?

 9:52
 Absolutely.

 9:52
 I, I fully agreed that, you know, green skills is a really challenging area that we, we really do need to address to achieve net zero.

 10:00
 And one of the challenges that local areas have, like like in Cumbria is matching up those demands for green skills with the employers, with the delivery programs.

 10:10
 We have to upskill people like the skills boot camp programs, for instance.

 10:14
 So what we need to do is work really closely to match up that demand with the supply of those green skills that we're going to need.

 10:22
 And I think working with local colleges, universities like University of Cumbria here in Cumbria is crucial to addressing that skills gap.

 10:31
 And I think the other thing that we sometimes forget as well as is the next generation of of people.

 10:37
 Young people are so engaged with the idea of net zero, but working with schools to develop an understanding of what greens jobs, green careers look like is going to be really crucial, I think, to inspire the next generation of workers.

 10:54
 Very true.

 10:55
 There's a lot to do there.

 10:56
 Obviously there's a connecting the dots type scenario Jenny briefly suggested there between her that employer need and the skills that are coming through the education system, whatever that education system might look like.

 11:07
 Because again, that needs to vary a lot depending on how people want to go through to their their new career or first career or whatever it might be.

 11:16
 So there's a huge amount to think about there.

 11:18
 We could clearly have about 20 different podcasts on the topic of green skills is such a big area and hugely vital, but we're going to move on.

 11:27
 This is a snapshot podcast.

 11:29
 So we're going to move on to the next topic around net zero.

 11:33
 So we're moving on to the topic of net zero opportunities within the energy mix.

 11:38
 Not just heat pumps, mentioned heat pumps, but all sorts of different things.

 11:41
 So the energy mix and I'm going to hand over to Jenny.

 11:43
 But first, if you could tell us a little bit about yourself, enterprise and Cumbria and so on for context.

 11:49
 Yeah, great, great to be here and introduce myself.

 11:52
 So I'm Jenny Stein, I'm head of Net Zero at Enterprising Cumbria.

 11:56
 We're an organization that works with local authorities and businesses to promote economic growth across the region.

 12:03
 So in the net zero team, that means working to support new renewable energy projects and to help businesses decarbonize.

 12:12
 Prior to joining Enterprising Cumbria, I've worked in the nuclear industry for 10 years at Sellerfield Limited.

 12:19
 So Sellerfield Limited runs nuclear site on the West Coast of Cumbria, which is the world's largest decommissioning site.

 12:27
 So it's a huge amount of expertise in nuclear in this area.

 12:32
 And I think that new nuclear is going to be a really important part of the energy mix going forward.

 12:37
 We've obviously got real key strengths in this country and renewable technologies, especially offshore wind with some of the largest wind farms in Europe and plans for new floating offshore wind, especially in the Celtic Sea.

 12:51
 We also have strengths in in onshore wind and solar.

 12:54
 And I think there's going to be a real renewal of interest in developing onshore wind and solar.

 13:01
 But the problem with these renewable energy sources is their intermittency.

 13:06
 So I think nuclear is a sort of base load that's going to be really crucial as we take the next steps in the energy transition.

 13:14
 And whether that's the sort of large scale GW reactors like Hinckley or smaller modular reactors, SMRS think all of these are going to play a part in making sure we've got that base load and we can ensure that we've got power when when the wind's not blowing or when the sun's not shining.

 13:32
 As well as sort of nuclear playing that part, I think whilst we're transitioning to a more renewable based energy generation, there's two elements that we're going to need to think about a lot more in depth and one is energy storage.

 13:47
 So we need to get better at storing energy so that we can make use of those times where the wind is blowing and the sun is shining.

 13:55
 So we've got energy available for for when that stops.

 13:58
 So whether that's looking at things like pump hydro schemes or other innovative solutions for energy storage, I think that's going to be really important.

 14:07
 And then the final point is that we're going to need smarter grids.

 14:11
 So we might be transitioning to a world where consumers have more of a role to play in managing the the transition to renewables.

 14:21
 So we already have plenty of people who charge their electric vehicle at home and they might do that when the the sun's shining and the solar panels on the roof are are working really well.

 14:33
 I think there's going to be greater flexibility around when we use power with consumers playing a part in sort of balancing that that grid as we go forward.

 14:42
 So I think that's going to be really crucial that the energy mix is going to change and we're going to have to adapt to that change in ways that are new to us.

 14:50
 Yeah, it's all a bit new in a way.

 14:51
 One thing that's changed for consumers, I guess is previously used to get cheaper energy during the evening, depending on what?

 14:59
 Well, during the night, depending on what tariffs you're on, Whereas now I'm on a renewable energy tariff.

 15:03
 And now there's things coming in where they, they, they know, they know it's going to be sunny or whatever it might windy, whatever it might be.

 15:09
 They sort of give you an hour in advance to say we're going to have loads of energy at this point.

 15:14
 It's going to be all renewable.

 15:15
 Now's the best time to charge things and that kind of thing.

 15:17
 So you get kind of those direct messages.

 15:19
 But that's a different way of living, right, With energy, isn't it?

 15:21
 So it's, there's a thing thinking, but at least those things are trickling through now, which is, I guess, quite good to see, right?

 15:29
 Absolutely.

 15:30
 And I think things like that are actually quite nice, aren't they?

 15:32
 It makes you feel a bit more connected to the natural environment.

 15:35
 You're involved, you know, you're involved in it.

 15:38
 Yeah.

 15:38
 And there could be also initiatives like, you know, the the battery in your house that stores the energy from your solar panels could connect back into the grid or even your your electric vehicle could help with that grid balancing at certain times.

 15:52
 So I think, you know, there's huge potential and I think consumers are are are bought into to adapting.

 15:58
 I don't know how you felt when when you get that notification through, do you think, well, well, I can't, I can't actually use that now, but at least it gives you a chance to adapt.

 16:06
 We were excited that it was happening, but then we realized we weren't at home at the time.

 16:10
 So we didn't really benefit at all.

 16:12
 But you know, these kind of things will happen and it gives us the opportunity.

 16:16
 It's like, it's like, you know, it's kind of gamifies things in a little of way because you can start to try and make the most of the opportunities based on, you know, renewable energy that's coming through the grid.

 16:24
 So there'll see some challenges there to address.

 16:26
 You mentioned the intermittent power and, and that kind of thing and nuclear is an option that'll keep part of the way forward.

 16:32
 But what, what can apart from people looking out for cheaper energy hours to make the most of the end, what what could people do?

 16:39
 I mean, I'm talking like fresh professionals as well.

 16:42
 How do they get involved and how do they make the clean energy mix more of a benefit to more people, more of mainstream thing?

 16:48
 What does that look like?

 16:50
 I, I think that understanding of the, the adaptability is, is going to be crucial.

 16:55
 I guess an interesting thing to come back to nuclear is, is the acceptance of that locally where, where the new nuclear is going to be developed.

 17:05
 So I guess an understanding that at the moment that is a crucial part of our transition away from, from gas.

 17:12
 So if we are bought into this ambition for net zero, then you might need to be more accepting to a small modular reactor in your area.

 17:24
 I think it's an interesting question where that sort of public perception of of nuclear power is at the moment.

 17:30
 I think it's fairly positive.

 17:32
 But obviously there's there's lots of different, different voices out there.

 17:35
 OK, Keller at MacDonald, what what's the energy mix situation, discussions with clients, that kind of thing.

 17:41
 What's what's the current?

 17:44
 Yeah.

 17:44
 So, yeah, something that we're noticing a lot when we work with clients, especially big industries of industries that have high process Rd.

 17:54
 where conventional heat pumps will not deliver the most.

 17:57
 We have the sometimes they have temperature over 200°C and we're more or less looking at, you know, hydrogen, you know, green hydrogen as an option or as a meet, you know, to to try to help decarbonize those processes.

 18:12
 We work to some local authorities where a lot of they have a lot of industrial help or industry across that and which means that which makes their energy need quite unique.

 18:23
 And obviously the the UK government have a, you know, hydrogen road map, but also right with hydrogen, it's, you know, something that is imagine as a key way to, you know, to help industrial across that industries with high process roads to be able to, you know, decarbonize or move away from, you know, from the conventional gas where heat pumps are, you know, energy will not be able to meet the, you know, the high process, high temperature demand they currently have operating on site.

 18:57
 Yeah.

 18:58
 Also things to think about.

 18:59
 One thing I'd like to point people towards is the renewable energy podcast that you had two episodes ago, so episode 2 of MF cast for the series.

 19:08
 Go and have a listen to that because that's all about renewable energy.

 19:11
 So it might give you a bit more of an insight into what we're talking about in this particular subtopic, but we're going to move on.

 19:18
 I'll put the link for that in the description.

 19:19
 Back to Kello for consideration #3 place based approach.

 19:23
 What are we talking about here?

 19:25
 Kello Yeah, the the concept of place based approach, there's one recognizing that net 0 isn't a one, is not a one side, you know, one side fits all.

 19:37
 For example, what was in Cumbria might not work in Cambridge, for example.

 19:43
 So it's president approach basically terrorist crime attention to the specific characteristics needs an opportunity of of a local area.

 19:52
 It empowers the community's local authority to reach the transactions themselves.

 19:57
 And one of the things we've seen is, you know, Roku relevance for in press based approach where you know, solutions are usually more effective when they reflect the local growth geography, infrastructure or social dynamics.

 20:12
 McDonald, We co-authored a report which was with Nazir Infrastructure Industry Collision looking at press based approach to Net 0.

 20:22
 And in that report, we more or less identified 4 pillars that we think will be, you know, helpful to drive this forward.

 20:30
 And one of them is powers partnership platform and People on Powers.

 20:35
 It's more or less about devolution of authority, you know, giving local authorities and community, the legal and, you know, financial powers needed to be able to lead climate action effectively.

 20:46
 And you know, this include obviously control over planning, transport, house, housing and energy system, but also giving local authorities the long term, you know, feasibility and powers to be able to act.

 20:59
 So this is very important for local authorities to be able to, you know, inward and start to look at what are the key strengths, what are the key opportunities that they have with their communities and how do they mobilize and channel that to lead transaction.

 21:14
 And this also helps create core benefits to tackle, you know, any of the priorities that they have.

 21:19
 It might be for poverty, it might be in any of the issues that they have.

 21:23
 So in this case, transition to NATO would not just be about cutting down carbon or reducing carbon, but also creating up other opportunities to help address some other, whereas they help within the local authorities.

 21:37
 And and then again the second one in this partnership, you know, how are we building cross collaboration across sector with public and private sector, but also dead sector organizations, national government, local authorities and private sector.

 21:51
 How are we strengthening those those partnership to be able to mobilize the finance and thing we need to be able to and to do this transaction?

 22:01
 One key example, you know, that I'd like to mention is the Coventry and strategic energy partnership where Coventry City has, you know, procured an energy partner a on to, you know, on a 15 year road map to try to transform the city energy landscape.

 22:18
 So this kind of partnership is something that I think is also very important for bringing private sector and public sector to be able to, you know, lead this transaction and also this health address.

 22:29
 The key challenge of finance when you talk about net zero, because it's also one of the, you know, key challenges when you have net zero.

 22:36
 And then you look at the cost to deliver this, where do you mobilize this, you know, capital or capes to be able to deliver that and then platform or more or less data.

 22:46
 So how are we creating accessible and integrated data platforms and system to be able to support evidence, you know, evidence that decision making, you know, local data platforms to help track emissions, identify those opportunities and the benefits from the outcome.

 23:02
 So this is also very important to be able to adapt that.

 23:05
 And then lastly on people, which is at the core of its nature must be about people.

 23:12
 So people should be at the heart of the transaction.

 23:15
 So how are we ensuring that we are empowering people to participate, to be able to share this with the the decisions, but also to benefit from, from the outcome.

 23:25
 It also be about, you know, having areas that have maybe high rates of unemployment or looking at other multiple of multiple levels of indices of deprivations.

 23:36
 How do we, you know, how do we make sure that, you know, we're using the transaction to Netzel to be able to bring these people on, to be able to help these people play a key part in shaping the decision, but also in benefiting from, from that outcome.

 23:52
 So more or less to yeah, to, to, to, to update up.

 23:57
 We need a national framework, obviously, but delivery must be local.

 24:04
 It must be read by, you know, it must be local.

 24:08
 Yeah, there's a lot to think about there.

 24:10
 But if nothing else, engaging with the local community is a must.

 24:16
 I got from that at every stage of the the plan, whatever that might be to get a good idea of what's actually happening in the community, what's good for the community, what works, what doesn't and so on.

 24:26
 That co-authored report with McDonald's, is that freely available?

 24:30
 Yes, yes, yes.

 24:31
 So we can link to that in the description as well.

 24:33
 Excellent.

 24:34
 Well, like this, this description is going to be long Jenny.

 24:36
 We're talking about place based approach and clearly you, you work in in a local facility in your work.

 24:42
 I'm going to give you about two minutes, but if you wanted to add things, go for it.

 24:47
 Yeah, that place based approach really, really chimes with me.

 24:50
 I mean what we've got to work with is our local strengths.

 24:53
 So Cumbria has amazing strengths in offshore wind opportunities and its nuclear expertise and in having a really skilled sort of manufacturing and industrial base.

 25:04
 But we've got challenges as well.

 25:05
 So we have got areas with those multiple indices of deprivation, got challenges of geography, someone's put a big load of mountains, the Lake District in the middle of our region, which makes infrastructure challenging.

 25:17
 So, so no, we have challenges of connectivity and grid connection.

 25:22
 But what really chime from from what you were talking about Kilo is the opportunities of having more power locally.

 25:29
 So company is in a really interesting position.

 25:31
 We're in a fast track for devolution by 2026.

 25:36
 So the potential to bring lots of that decision making over adult skills funding, for instance, we're talking about the requirements for green skills and other initiatives, really gives us more power to make those changes that we need and achieve net zero locally.

 25:53
 The other thing I want to mention is we talked about engaging people locally.

 25:58
 There was a recent initiative in Cumbria called the Cumbria Climate Citizens Assembly, which was a group that is representative of Cumbria more widely that came together to discuss the question of how can members of the population influence decision making over climate related matters.

 26:17
 This is a fantastic piece of work done by Shared Future CIC together in partnership with lots of organizations across Cumbria and really, you know, demonstrates the degree of engagement around climate and rethinking how we can get involved and influence decision making locally.

 26:38
 So fantastic bit of work.

 26:39
 And I agree that engagement is really crucial.

 26:42
 Yeah.

 26:43
 And engagement, leadership, influencing and so on.

 26:45
 Key part of being a registered environmental professional for.

 26:48
 So just going to give that a bit of a plug.

 26:50
 But it's not all about your technical skills, but you've got to bring people along with you.

 26:53
 And when you're talking about this local, you know, place based solutions to get by in, you've got, you've got to have that set of skills to be able to, to deliver in that kind of way, which is very, very important.

 27:04
 We're going to move on to #4 of today's net zero environment, top five.

 27:09
 Let's see if listeners can guess what it is before I say it.

 27:12
 It's industrial decarbonisation.

 27:15
 I wonder if anyone got that?

 27:16
 But over to Jenny for this subtopic.

 27:20
 Yeah, thank you.

 27:21
 And I think industrial decarbonisation is really important because I think it can be forgotten when we talk about, you know, new energy generation and how we're doing things in our lives differently.

 27:31
 And might not touch on everyone's day-to-day life in terms of transport, how you what kind of car you buy and and the food you buy.

 27:39
 But the country still has, despite moving away from its industrial past, you know, still got a really important industry or problem to solve and you know, electrification is not always possible.

 27:52
 So Kilo mentioned sort of hydrogen and the the role that's going to have to play.

 27:57
 And I think there are going to need to be innovative solutions to how we decarbonize some of our heavy industry in Cumbria.

 28:05
 We've got a really rich industrial heritage.

 28:07
 So we have some fantastic sort of a heavy industry that is really energy intensive.

 28:12
 So from things like paper making, milk processing, true to, you know, really specialised things like banknote production, we also, because of our dispersed geography, we're not one single industrial cluster where we can provide a solution there and it serves the needs of everyone.

 28:30
 We need to think about what can be applied locally.

 28:34
 So things like hydrogen are going to be really, really interesting to, to watch.

 28:38
 We've got a fantastic problem project in the South of the county called Barrow Green Hydrogen with Colton Power working with Kimberly-Clark, a paper manufacturer to power the, the paper mill through hydrogen, green hydrogen.

 28:53
 And I think another element that we, we don't always talk about is the, the carbon capture and storage.

 28:59
 So for industries where it really is very hard to move away from fossil fuels or where there is going to be significant carbon dioxide generation still, what is our approach there?

 29:11
 And there's some really interesting schemes across the country, including the Morecambe Net 0 project in Barrow and Furness, which looks at storing carbon dioxide from the Peak District cement cluster, transporting it all the way through to Cumbria and then storing it in the in the gas fields in Morecambe Bay.

 29:30
 So I think we need to, we mustn't forget that industry is an important part of the picture, and not just for decarbonisation, but also for, you know, economic regeneration of various like Cumbria, which have perhaps suffered in the past from changes in industry.

 29:46
 And we need to make sure, as Kilo said, that there's a just transition away from the sort of gas based industries through to greener industries.

 29:54
 Yeah, I think we've, I'm glad we've talked about carbon capture as well, because that's a big part of the mix, isn't it?

 29:59
 I mean, my knowledge is limited, but industrial decommonisation, that's you can't do all of that without producing some carbon or using some whatever that might look like.

 30:08
 Is that right?

 30:10
 You have to capture it as well.

 30:11
 And I think so.

 30:12
 I think there's some industries that are just, it's going to be very difficult to move away.

 30:16
 And I think some cement manufacturer is one of them.

 30:19
 So the critics of carbon capturing stores might say, well, we don't need to do this, we just need to move away from producing carbon dioxide at all.

 30:27
 But I think that there there is going to be a place for capturing or even reusing carbon dioxide for industries where that isn't possible.

 30:36
 Clearly, the idea is to get as low as possible in terms of those initial emissions in the 1st place.

 30:40
 And you mentioned innovative solutions, AI is about at the moment what, what does that?

 30:44
 How does that help?

 30:46
 What, what kind of innovative solutions have you seen?

 30:48
 Are those kind of things happening?

 30:50
 Is there?

 30:51
 I mean, there's a huge amount of work to do in all of the industrial decarbonisation space, I think.

 30:56
 Yeah, obviously we're seeing quite some new innovative solution popping up, especially when we're working with clients, large industry clients that usually have processes that I had to decarbonise.

 31:07
 One key one that jumps right to my head is where we have a big factory that is the obviously big open space factory that only needed to hit the the workers, but not the space.

 31:22
 And you know, or having to hit the space will obviously take considerable amount of, you know, amount of energy to hit the space because it's large open.

 31:31
 And then we are seeing employers using just edge battery powered jackets to more or less just sit in drawers and, and not the space.

 31:40
 And that's reading to huge carbon savings.

 31:44
 So industries, they probably one of the, you know, hardest, you know, the probably one of the hardest to decarbonize, but obviously innovation is playing a cure and, and doing it.

 31:55
 And we're seeing quite some bespoke innovative processes imagine them to help decarbonize, you know, help support this decarbonize decarbonization.

 32:07
 And and as generally mentioned, when she was talking about the the energy miss as well, that is also an opportunity where industries were using like take talk of heat network, for example, where industries with large W heat, you know, are feeding that into a heat network and they're using that to heat homes with in a particular area.

 32:28
 So, so that is also an opportunity to that kind of innovation where you have industries respect process rules, but also with large W heat.

 32:36
 And then we're utilizing that W heat, feed that into a heat network and use that to heat home.

 32:42
 So they're quite some, you know, innovative to see that we are see imagine around that.

 32:47
 And yeah, and obviously over the next 30 years, we will keep seeing rapid changes and how, you know, we will take industrial processes, but also and how we support those industries to transition and still remain, you know, competitive.

 33:04
 Interesting.

 33:05
 OK.

 33:05
 I like the idea of wearable heat sources.

 33:07
 That's a good one.

 33:08
 But then again, I suppose I, I, you know, in the winter when it's cold in my house, I don't put the heating on it.

 33:12
 I do have a hot water bottle that sets someone up just just keep me warm, which doesn't sound very innovative, but I am saving quite a bit of carbon by doing that.

 33:19
 Whether it's health and safety conscious, if all the IT equipment around, maybe don't mention that.

 33:23
 But moving on to the final topic, the final item, which is the biggest take away you want listeners to be considering on the topic of Net 0, whilst encompassing all of the things we've spoken about already, who wants to start what we're talking about?

 33:38
 I think the, the, the final point I I want to focus on is we've talked a lot about reducing carbon, but the important point for me is that net 0 is about more than just reducing carbon.

 33:50
 This it gives you more and the primary aim which is to reduce the impact of climate change.

 33:56
 And what it gives you is you know, it's about energy security as well.

 34:00
 If we've got energy sources in the UK which can reliably power our homes, power our businesses, what that gives us is security of supply.

 34:10
 We've, we've seen with events in in, in the world in the last few years that this is, you know, increasingly important.

 34:18
 What it also does is it gives U.S.

 34:19
 jobs.

 34:20
 You know, it helps us reindustrialize those places, those parts of the country that where industry has been in decline.

 34:27
 By bringing in those renewable power sources, you can bring in the associated industry that needs to use them, whether that's AI data centres or whether it's sustainable fuel manufacturer.

 34:39
 It can be the catalyst that helps us to reindustrialize and strengthen communities, especially where there is that deprivation.

 34:48
 It also makes us healthier.

 34:50
 You know, lots of the things we might do for a net 0 actually improve the quality of our lives in many other ways as well.

 34:57
 Walking to work, cycling to work, these sorts of smaller activities really, you know, can help create much healthier, nicer places for us to live in.

 35:07
 And it helps us modernize our society.

 35:09
 So we've we've suffered from a real lack of investment in infrastructure over the past 50 years.

 35:16
 And I think what we're seeing now is an opportunity to invest in infrastructure that really sets our country up to succeed over the next century.

 35:24
 Really, it's amazing what global events can do to change our way of thinking and give us opportunities to to change the way we live our lives or heat our homes or whatever it might be Canon over to you for benefits beyond just the decarbonization side.

 35:40
 Yes.

 35:40
 So just to double down on some of the things Jenny has mentioned, I think the fastest way to reduce energy costs for consumers is to speed up transaction and not to slow it down.

 35:55
 And the first of all, prices are in a very volatile, you know, due to global market frustration situation.

 36:01
 We, we, we see at the, I think at the work of Russian evolution to Ukraine, what that cost to, you know, gas prices and energy prices across Europe.

 36:11
 One of the fastest way to deliver, you know, to stabilize energy prices and, and to cut the cost and reduce energy costs for consumers is to speed up transaction, you know, because renewable energy have low and predictable operational operating costs and it helps stabilize prices over time.

 36:32
 I know in recent time there's been quite some political argument, you know, that tried to look up neither and and I think the popular one is the net stupid zero argument or saying that those arguments try to ignore, you know, the economic and the innovation potential of the green industry.

 36:52
 We look at any sector you pick.

 36:54
 You look at how take out renewable energy industry, the solar, the wind or the party technology, how these are, you know, outpacing fossil fuel in growth and employment across, you know, most of the world.

 37:07
 So you see that transition to Netzel is, you know, provides us with a huge opportunities and benefits because of the innovation and economic potential that they offer.

 37:19
 But also just like Jenny mentioned, it gives you energy security.

 37:24
 So it's the fastest way to try to reduce energy prices for consumers.

 37:29
 So it gives us stability and it also gives contracts that, you know, self-sufficiency to be able to generate consume energies and not have to depend on, you know, on so far that is prone to market frustration, frustration and and external shocks.

 37:46
 So much to think about.

 37:47
 I do want to now run a webinar or something, maybe a full event about the benefits of net zero beyond just decarbonisation.

 37:54
 So much to think about.

 37:56
 And I guess so, Callum, in terms of your conversations with your clients, does the topic of the other benefits come up is a key part of the discussion that you have with clients?

 38:06
 It's not just about, you know, meeting net 0 targets.

 38:09
 These are the added benefits.

 38:11
 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

 38:13
 It's usually one of the key selling points.

 38:17
 And clients want to see also is what other benefits do I get from this, you know, because most times there is usually, you know, if you can't CapEx upfront cost.

 38:29
 But when you now look at, you know, some of the other benefits, you know, that comes with actually putting up this, you know, the capital, putting up this on the forehead, It's that benefits is that multiple benefits of core benefits that comes as a result of the transaction that is, you know, something that is also that makes it more appelling and makes it to be the most preferred option.

 38:54
 Yeah, Yeah.

 38:55
 Really interesting to hear about anybody interested in the world of net zero and you wanted to make a pledge to your Net 0 commitments.

 39:02
 I'm going to point you towards pledge to Net 0, which is a program that site of the environment held set up.

 39:08
 I will put the links to that in the description as well.

 39:09
 This description is going to be quite long, isn't it?

 39:11
 But we're going to finish our podcast there.

 39:14
 There's so much more to talk about, but thank you very, very much to our guest today.

 39:18
 We have covered a lot.

 39:20
 If you, the listener, have ideas of what could have been discussed in today's Net 0 Top five, let us know in the comments or send us a message.

 39:29
 We're keen to keep the conversation going.

 39:31
 Clearly, we can't cover everything in one podcast.

 39:34
 But finally, please check out any links and resources in that pod description and you can keep on learning about the various things that we've talked about.

 39:43
 The thank you, Jenny.

 39:43
 Thank you, Kelly, and thank you again for listening.

 39:47
 We'll see you in the next episode next month.

 39:51
 If you've made it this far, Please remember to subscribe wherever you're listening to this episode so you don't miss the next one.

 39:57
 Also, rate our podcast and leave a comment to help us reach more people.

 40:02
 Thank you very much for listening or watching on YouTube.

 40:05
 We look forward to the next episode next month.

 40:07
 See you then.